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[Music]
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This is Undaunted Life a Man's Podcast. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it.
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All right, guys. Today, I've got a special guest for you on the podcast. His name is Samuel Say.
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So Samuel is a Ghanaian Canadian who lives in Brampton. That's a city just outside of Toronto.
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But according to him, he is committed to addressing racial, cultural, and political issues with
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biblical theology in an attempt to be quick to listen and slow to speak. His work and his words
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have been featured on The Daily Wire, The Blaze, Relatable with Ally Bestucky, Founders Ministries,
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and a lot of other areas. But I'm just going to tell you right from the beginning, guys.
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I'm so thankful for the people that I've been able to talk to on this podcast. We've had so
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many great people that have donated their time so that you could hear from them on certain issues.
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They've donated the time to Undaunted Life so that these words and these ideas and these thoughts
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can get out to a lot of people. I just finished this interview, and this is easily one of my
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favorite interviews that I've ever done. Okay? I loved everything that we talked about. I'm actually
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going to go to my notes right here to let you know all the different things that we talked about.
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We talked about, you know, his kind of life statement, whatever the thing that I just read you,
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that he's committed to addressing racial, cultural, and political issues with biblical theology and
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an attempt to be quick to listen and slow to speak. But we also talked about social justice,
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cosmic justice, race, critical race theory, Black Lives Matter, tokenism, abortion,
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Christian nationalism, manhood growing up without a father, LGBTQ inside the church,
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and also why he immigrated from Africa to the West because the West is so crazy racist.
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And then we did, you know, what would you say to someone that said,
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which a lot of you guys enjoy when we go into that, guys, this was just such a fun conversation
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to have. I could tell within just a few minutes that this was going to be a good and fruitful
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conversation. And the reason is because I know you guys, I know my audience, I know what you're
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into. You don't want these squishy interviews. You don't want the same questions asked to the
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same person in the same way. This is exactly for you. You're going to want to make sure you listen
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to this one all the way through. And guys, I'm not going to keep them from you any longer. So
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without further ado, let's get into it. Samuel, say welcome to Undaunted Life of Man's podcast.
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Thank you, whether it's a pleasure. Hey, I'm so excited to have you on here. And I told you this
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off air, you talk about a lot of subjects that are near and dear to my heart. And it's not because
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I like them, but it's because they're really, really important. But one thing that I found
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interesting on your website is kind of like, I guess you could call it your personal mission
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statement. But it's this, according to you, you are committed to addressing racial,
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cultural and political issues with biblical theology in an attempt to be quick to listen
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and slow to speak. So let's just start there. Why is that your mission?
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Yeah, it started because, so my blog is now six years old, I couldn't write a blog in 2015.
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And 2014, 2015, well before you had the George Floyd riots, you had initially the Ferguson riots,
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which started in love over Darren Wilson, killing Michael Brown in a justifiable manner. But those
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who may not know, Darren Wilson was a cop who was called to a scene. And Michael Brown ended up
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attacking him and then he ended up killing Michael Brown in self defense. Nevertheless,
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that led to the first major, major riots across America. And really, in some cases, the world
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six years ago. And a lot of my, a lot of my friends were embracing Black Lives Matter. These
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would be Christians who were embracing Black Lives Matter and critical race theory. I was like,
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wait a minute, guys, wait a minute, let's slow down and let's figure out what the fats are in this case.
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So I wanted to create my blog in response to that. And really just to all the things in our culture
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that many people were being quick to respond to on social media and not choosing to be slow to speak
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in a biblical manner on all these things. So why do you think so many people, because obviously,
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a lot of people will use the slow to speak thing just for their own purposes. But I've noticed that
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exact same thing and a lot of pundits have noticed the same thing as well that people were so ready
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to jump to narrative. And I beg my listeners, I beg people just in general to like, can we wait
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five seconds for the dust to settle? Because how many times does Twitter or CNN or some random news
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organization jump to the conclusion that fits their narrative as opposed to waiting for the facts?
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Why do you feel like people are tempted to do that? Is it just because we're slaves to narrative?
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That's a big part of it. I think you're not going to trend on Twitter if you post two days after
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fact. So that's one. You're not going to be part of the of the cultural zeitgeist, in a sense,
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if you wait for the fact. So I think I think that's a big part of it. The other thing is,
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we're being told in our culture today that that silence is violence or silences compliance,
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meaning that if you're quiet, if you're waiting for the facts, well, you're in sin. If you're
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being biblical, if you're being righteous, if you're being holy, you're in sin. So a lot of people feel
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the need to be very quick and just to agree with whatever the cultural narrative is. Otherwise,
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there'll be seen as bad people for not saying anything. But why is that virtuous? I don't
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understand the virtue in that because I mean, I feel like I'm old enough to remember. I'm 35.
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I'm old enough to remember a time whenever it was like, Hey, everybody settle down. Let's kind of
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figure out whether it was a fist fight in a school or, you know, something that happened in the news,
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everybody was kind of waiting so that they knew how to respond. Do you feel like as you've already
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mentioned it, do you feel like it is social media? Because like you're you're right, like on the
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George Floyd stuff, Samuel, I waited, I think six weeks before I talked about it on my show.
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I mean, a long time and I was just absorbing all this content from people so that I could give
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it to my audience in a way that I knew their pastors wouldn't. Is it social media? Is that
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kind of like the spark for all this? Social media is a big part of it. But the ideology
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of the social justice movement, I say that social media is a problem, but social justice is a much
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bigger problem in that it's actually really it's a it's a terrible marriage of the two in a social
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media naturally leads to being very quick to speak. But but critical race theory, feminism,
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all these ideas, they really push that narrative or the truth does not matter. Facts do not matter.
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Either you are an ally with, you know, with women or in particular dealing with the Black Lives Matter
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issue, either you are an ally of Black people or you're not. So if you say you're waiting for the
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facts, they would say that, well, you're just a white person or a black person who's been manipulated
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by white people who's just trying to find an excuse to defend white supremacy. Because in
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their mind, of course, it's racism of course, white supremacy. Any desire to think, well,
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let's wait for the facts. It's just you trying to find a way out in their mind.
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Yeah, it's it's a very nefarious worldview. But for me, and we're going to talk about this a lot
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because we're going to go into all the subjects is again, you talk about CRT and Black Lives Matter
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and abortion and LGBTQ, we're going to get into all that today. But really the first thing that
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you kind of brought up just a second ago with social justice. And I feel like amongst other
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things that have infiltrated the church, that is one of the more nefarious things. Because again,
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it's how you categorize people, because it's like, okay, social justice, but then it's like,
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wait, wait a minute, you're castigating other Christians as not being concerned about justice
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because they don't buy into your version of social justice. So I just want to let you
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flow a little bit because you've done a lot of writing and speaking and thinking
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on the subject of social justice. So why is social justice major air quotes for those not watching
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us here? Why is that such a problem? I'm really glad you're asking that. So for many people they
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might hear that and might think, well, wait a minute, what's the difference between between social
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justice and justice? Well, the reason why you put the word social justice in air quotes is because,
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well, it's very different. So justice, biblical justice is really dealing with impartiality for
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the most part is dealing with a biblical values, which is really affirmed by Western values in many
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ways, but social justice has a completely, and I said nefarious purpose, which is to promote equity,
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right? So let's on critical race theory, feminism, LGBTQ ideas, all these things is to promote equity,
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which I'll talk about in a second, is very different from what people think really means equity and
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equality are two different things. But really, social justice is really promoting injustice. It's
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promoting LGBTQ ideas, abortion, I always say that people oftentimes about wanting to have social
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justice for people and babies. No, no, no, no, they're already having that, right? That social
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justice for people and babies is abortion, because really, it's promoting equity for women, it's
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feminism, but human rights for babies is by is wanting to end abortion. Those are two very different
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things. Human rights is affirming justice, social justice affirms injustice. But unfortunately,
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the church has been very much embraced, because a lot of people, after this before in that,
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growing up for a lot of young men, we were not, and for young women too, we were not taught
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biblical justice, we were not taught how to understand a biblical worldview. So many of us
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were raised in public school system, or if, you know, or afterward we went to college,
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and while the world, they know how important it is to have a worldview. So they were teaching us
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how to think about the culture, politics, justice, in a very ungodly way, of course. But that's where
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many of us were really forced to consider what we think about the world. So now, last year, when
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you had the George Floyd issue, you had many Christians who were unprepared for how to understand
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these issues, but the world was ready to tell them. So I think the reason why the church today is
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embracing these ideas is because unfortunately, for the last 20 years, we've not been addressing
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this issue at all. I think part of it has to do, and this is really goes back to your mission,
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is a complete lack of biblical literacy. How many people would opt in to say I am a Christian
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that do not crack their Bible, that if they were to go find their Bible, they would have to
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blow the dust off the top of it, because that's how much it gets used.
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But I will say this, and I just heard this today on or just here recently from John Cooper, John
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Cooper, my buddy, the lead singer, Skillet, he was talking about these types of things and talking
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about how his his parents' generation, they were the ones that gave up in the fight in the school
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systems to keep a biblical ethic inside the school systems, because they said, okay, okay, okay,
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we'll just let the schools teach facts and data, right? No worldview, no Christian worldview,
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no nothing worldview, and wouldn't you know it? They're just shocked when humanism and this secular
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ideology creeps in, and now we have all these downstream consequences of the secular nature
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being taught to our kids, but you're absolutely right. But I want to go back to something because
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you keyed in on equity, but I want you to go a little bit further because James too,
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the sin of partiality. Most Christians don't know anything about the sin of partiality.
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They don't know how that's why we say to people, this is why it's bad to be racist,
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not just because of, you know, it's going to be bad for you if you get canceled from your job or
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canceled from something on Twitter, but it's bad for you because it's sinful. So I want you to
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flow a little bit more on that. And I again, I'm enjoying this conversation a lot. Yeah, it's good.
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We're not even 10 minutes in. It's going well. I was just about before you mentioned that,
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I was going to say one of the biggest problems with biblical literacy is that we don't understand
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what racism is because we don't understand what partiality is. I did a talk earlier this year,
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actually I had a Christian, a so-called Christian university, and they ended up canceling me
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because they were saying I was a racist because I defined
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basically in all white school. I don't care about people's skin color, but, you know,
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given that I find it hilarious that they were calling me a racist, the one black guy coming there,
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they invited to come talk about racism. But anyway, I because I said, look, racism is simply partiality
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against someone because of their skin color. When you say it that way, it's not popular in the world,
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but biblically, it means that anyone can be racist against black people, white people. A critical
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race theory is just partiality, but also abortion is also partiality. Abortion is saying that you're
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going to favor women against their babies. So almost all the issues of the world today is really
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dealing with partiality. So it's crucial that we understand that. So partiality, again, is simply
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showing fiftism against someone or for someone because of something about them, whether they are
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women, whether they are black, white, men, whatever it might be. And equity is really saying that
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it's okay to show partiality against somebody else in order to bring somebody else up. It's very
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evil. So for example, in his book, how to be an anti racist, I call it how to be a racist. But
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it's by one of the leading critical race series today. Yeah, and in his book, he says, basically,
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that racial discrimination is good if it leads to racial equity, but it's bad if it leads to racial
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inequity. Those are his exact words. What he is saying is racism, partiality is okay if it leads
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to equity, meaning if the racism leads to equality of outcome in society, which is, again, a very
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evil idea that partiality is okay. So long as it produces essentially socialism and communism in
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society. There's nothing more racist than being told to look at somebody based on there's immutable
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characteristics and to be able to fill in the blanks of their life. Because I grew up, I mean,
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accidentally I grew up in an incredibly diverse community in Southwest Southwest Oklahoma.
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Like I went back and I saw my sixth grade class picture now the 20 kids in the class. I think more
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than over half were not white. Now, as a kid, I wasn't thinking, wow, look at my black friends
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and look at my Mexican friends and look at my Indian friends. I was just like, look at my friends,
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right? But now we are told and we are teaching our children, hey, hey, no, you are an oppressor.
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Why? Because look at you. Look at the level of melanin that you have in your skin. Now that person
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over there, he's oppressed or she's oppressed. And you know, he has actually two levels of oppression
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because he's gay and also he's black or whatever. And we're told to do these things. And I don't
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understand how people can get away with this worldview because the nefarious thing is, I don't
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know, maybe 10 or 15 years ago, painting with a broad brush here, they had their favorite injustice
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to talk about and that was financial injustice. That was their favorite one. But now we're moving
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towards this, this movement to where it's like, no, no, no, we have to separate people based on
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immutable characteristics. It's like, how did we get here? I feel like it's a downstream consequence,
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but also, or you look like you want to hop back in, go ahead. Yeah, so I actually think things
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haven't changed. I think you're writing that so-called financial injustice was a big issue.
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I think it is. I don't think it's a coincidence that when you had, I'm forgetting the Wall Street
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issue 10 years ago, what was it called, the Wall Street? Occupy Wall Street?
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Occupy Wall Street, yes. It's not a coincidence that within a couple of years after that,
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that's when you had the Black Lives Matter rights. They're all very much intertwined. In fact,
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many of the heroes mentioned that they were influenced by the Occupy Wall Street movements
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because they were really all based in Marxism. So critical race theory, there's a book by one of
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the funders of critical race theory named Charles W. Mills. And he says that, essentially,
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that there was one radical idea by Marx, which is that society is really made up of a, the real
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issue in society is the class issue. And he is saying, no, as a critical race there is,
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his radical idea is, no, that society, the real conflict is really race. The point is this, is that
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you're right that for a long time, we're focusing on the so-called financial injustice. That's not
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change. They're just now using race as an issue to push that same agenda because they know that,
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in our culture today, the class issue is not as appealing to people. But if you mentioned the
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racial issue, you have a lot of people being more vulnerable and more unaware and being able to
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embrace these ideas. Because the average person wouldn't embrace racism just from hearing it out
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because they know the history behind it. But critical race theory, it sounds good because there's a
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white guilt in there. Yeah, you can sneak it in. You can sneak it a little bit. Don't you agree
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with this? Don't you agree with this? And if you get people to agree to enough things, it's like,
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well, guess what? You're on our side now. Now, we're the ones wearing masks, not COVID masks,
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but we're in black masks to cover our faces and we throw them on the talk cocktails at police cars
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and all that. But one thing, as you were talking, it reminded me of really one of my favorite authors
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and maybe the most important economists that we have that's still alive and that's Thomas Sowell.
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He wrote a book called "The Quest for Cosmic Justice." I think I have the title, right? One
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thing that I think about all the time with these people that are maybe Christians, but a lot of
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people that have a secular worldview is there's no concept of cosmic justice for them. Because if
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there's nothing after this life, if I get attacked by a pack of wolves or get hit by a bus or shoot
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myself in the head today, the lights just go out, right? And then they put me in the ground and
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eventually I'm warm food, right? If that's all there is, we have to fight for justice on this planet
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as fervently as we possibly can. You know, I just did an episode a while back on the death penalty
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and I talked about even Christians that are so anti the death penalty, even though God's law tells
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us like, life for life, if you take a life and in front of witnesses and all that, like it from
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your life, that will be required of you. But at the same time, we don't have this idea
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that there can be justice as somewhere else. So we have to fight for it here. Is that something
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that you feel like you see a lot in some of the work that you do? Absolutely. I did interview the
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daily wire a couple of months ago and then they asked me about why is leftism incompatible with
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Christianity. And one of the things I said is that leftism, which basically also includes social
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justice, critical race theory, all that, is that it is fundamentally a rejection of what the Bible
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says about hit about the past and the future. And what I mean is that they really say what has
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God really said when it comes to justice. So they really did deny human nature, they deny that we
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are by nature and evil people. Therefore, by nature, we should not be pursuing power. And
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that we are all evil. There's whether you are rich or poor, whether you are a man or a woman,
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whether you are white or black, we are by nature, evil. And therefore, we should not be trying to
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pit people against each other. That's the then rejecting the past. The future aspect is what
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you mentioned about cosmic justice. See, we know that there is a heaven and that God is the judge
19:20
of the universe and that there will not be a single injustice that will not be addressed,
19:25
either be addressed through hell or it's been addressed on the cross. We know that and we have
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a peace. So we know that while we are committed to pursuing justice, the Bible tells us to hate
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evil, love good and establish justice in the courts, we know that and we pursue that. But in the end,
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we know that there will never be a perfect justice in society until Christ Himself comes
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and returns to establish justice here. However, they do not believe in heaven. They don't care
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about heaven. Therefore, in their atheistic view, they've created a utopia where they think
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they don't. They have to bring a so-called heaven on earth because they are the gods. They are the
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God who sits on the throne that must execute justice. Otherwise, there will be justice. So,
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what you're saying is very, very important in that our theology is the basis for our worldview.
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But for them, their theology is, of course, also their basis for their worldview as well,
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which is that they are the gods who must establish a utopia in the society.
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Which I think is another commercial for the fact that we as Christians, we should undergird
20:34
our worldview with theological truth, with biblical truth, because the problem that I see
20:38
with so many people, and I see this a lot with the abortion issue, which we'll talk about a
20:41
little bit later, is Christians get tripped up so easily, right? They're like, oh, someone will
20:46
ask them, Hey, are you pro life? Yeah. Well, what about in the case of rape and incest? And then
20:51
all of a sudden they're like, I guess it's okay to kill the baby then because that sounds horrible,
20:56
right? They don't have a solid foundation. They're trying to plant their feet in mid-air. But I do
21:02
want to get more specifically into the area of race. There was a really interesting quote that
21:06
you had from one of your blogs that I want to get a little bit more insight into. But here's the
21:09
quote. How do you make racism acceptable again? It's simple, deceive and manipulate people into
21:15
writing over quote unquote systemic racism, then teach them to be silent or approving of racial
21:20
slurs against black people like Tim Scott. He's a black US Senator from the United States.
21:25
In other words, if you want racism to thrive, call everything racist, except for real racism.
21:32
So obviously being an American and paying attention to the news cycle, I know that when Tim Scott
21:36
pops up on on Twitter, it's going to be a lot of people that are calling him an Uncle Tom,
21:41
like Uncle Tim's Uncle Tom Scott or whatever they call him or something like that. I know those
21:45
things are going to happen, which is blatant racism. You have Larry Elder running for California
21:50
governor. He's, you know, someone's wearing a monkey mask and throws an egg at him. If that had
21:54
happened to Barack Obama, it would still be the number one news story today, years and years later,
21:59
right? But I guess there's so much gaslighting going on in social media companies. Big tech is
22:05
involved in that big media mainstream media is involved in that. But there are so many people
22:09
that are okay with racism as long as it's perpetrated by people that are wearing a blue tie or people
22:16
that they like. So give me a little bit more of an insight as to kind of why you framed it the way
22:20
you did. Yeah. You know, again, as I mentioned, one of the top selling books on racism, we're going
22:28
to last two, three years, especially last year after the good photo riots is how to be an anti-racist
22:36
by Irram Kendi. And I'm not kidding when I say this. That's maybe the most racist book I've ever
22:43
read. And it's really concerning when perhaps, and I've read a lot of racist books, including
22:48
from like white supremacists and everything else. So when that book, which is the one of the top
22:54
selling books on racism happens to be the most, which is book I've ever read in my life. That's
23:01
scary to me. And that's because we have redefined racism in basically now, racism basically now
23:08
means if you disagree with the left, that's basically what it is. You know, if you were against the
23:13
what is it? Long word I always struggle with. That's a word. But if you disagree with the
23:17
infrastructure bill, now you are in the US, right? If you disagree with almost anything now from
23:23
Joe Biden or the Democrats, you are a racist. But if you are just a Christian or you believe in
23:28
biblical values, if you believe that, and this is true, if you really believe that you should
23:33
live in a colorblind society, they really say that's racist. Now, we all know what that means. We
23:39
don't we're not saying that we're not seeing color. Of course, we are seeing color that we all
23:44
fearfully and wonderfully made and we should appreciate that. What what colorblind what color
23:49
biology means is that we're saying we don't want to treat people based on their skin color, the civil
23:53
rights thinking from Martin Luther King, Jr., right? But they've redefined racism. And now what is
24:00
actually racism is good. And what's not racism is bad. So because of that, people like me or Tim Scott
24:08
or a body book or more Thomas soul, because we are not leftist, it's okay for them to to use,
24:15
you know, to call us a koon and our cool Tom, all us traders to call us a number of things that's
24:22
really them judging us because of our skin color, and then thinking the worst of us because of
24:27
our skin color, which is, of course, racist, and it's okay for them to do that because they're doing
24:32
so in the name of being anti-racist on the name of being leftist. And because we are not anti-racist,
24:39
in the critical race thinking, meaning of that term, or because we're not leftists, it's okay
24:43
for them to do that because again, it's really all about them pushing leftism and hating conservatism
24:48
or hating Christianity. It's so shocking to me as well how how easily people are taken into that
24:54
because if you call Larry Elder, the black face of white supremacy, what and that's your headline,
24:59
how horrific of a thing is that to say about somebody because I got to tell you like if people
25:05
claim that I'm racist or I'm sexist or any of those things, I'm like, go ahead. That means I'm
25:08
saying something that's correct because you disagree with it and I already know your worldview,
25:12
but to claim somebody is racist without any evidence to that is one of the grossest and most
25:19
horrible things I feel like you could do aside from claiming somebody has sexually assaulted
25:22
somebody without any evidence. But again, all this comes from a worldview. It does not come from a
25:28
God based worldview. It comes from Karl Marx. That's how we get critical theory. That's how we
25:33
specifically get critical race theory, how we get feminism, all these things. But specifically,
25:37
let's talk about critical race theory. In the United States, of course, right now that's on
25:40
everybody's tongues because everybody's thinking about critical race theory in the schools. The
25:44
leftists are saying, no, there's no critical race theory in the schools because the class isn't
25:48
called critical race theory 101, even though critical race elements are a part of the curriculum,
25:53
but I don't want to get ahead of myself. You actually have spoken a lot about this and you've done a
25:56
lot of definitional work on this. So give our audience an idea of if anybody doesn't have a clue by now,
26:02
what is critical race theory, but also how is it being used and propagated in a Western context?
26:08
Okay. So critical race theory is a very complex ideology. But what it's basically saying is that
26:17
it's saying that Western society is built by white people for white people. Because of that,
26:26
it excludes non white people from Western society. And therefore, it's saying that white people are
26:32
naturally or culturally racist always. So if you're a white person by existing as a so-called
26:39
privileged member in this Western society, which is built for in their mind, white people,
26:44
you are a racist unless you divest from your whiteness, which means that you confess being
26:51
being racist and then you try hard to be an ally with black people, which basically means that
26:58
you try to abolish the Western system, you try to abolish America's founding principles,
27:02
and then you attempt to be anti-racist. That's very important. When I talk about being anti-racist,
27:09
what they really, really mean is being anti-America. Now, that may seem like a buzzword for many people,
27:16
but this is truly, I've read all their founding books and everything else. That's really what
27:21
it comes down to. Critical race theory is really about not just a social, cultural ideology.
27:28
It's fundamentally a legal framework, which is saying that America's legal principles,
27:34
America's founding principles are irredulently racist and they need to be abolished.
27:38
And the thing about critical race theory is they kind of have their own brown shirts.
27:44
They have Black Lives Matter. And so they are basically the roving army that's going to get this
27:49
to kind of be a part of what we have in our common culture. And Black Lives Matter uses violent
27:55
threats. They use threats of cancellation and all these different things and branding people.
27:59
And one of the maybe strongest things that they can throw at you, aside from a brick,
28:03
is the claim that you are being racist, right, as a company or as an individual. But the problem
28:08
that I feel like with Black Lives Matter is maybe the biggest problem is that that ideology
28:13
has infiltrated the church. Even people like Nat Chandler, even people that are like strong,
28:18
like foundational type people, they're being tempted into posting the Black Square on Instagram,
28:24
right? They're being tempted to being say, to say, it should be okay for us to say Black Lives Matter.
28:29
The problem has been from the beginning is not the sentence Black Lives Matter,
28:33
because any Christian on the planet would say, of course, they're made the image of God. They
28:36
have the Amago Day, of course, Black Lives Matter. But now that entire phrase has been
28:41
co-opted by a group that is using it for non-Christian means. So I guess, what are your thoughts on
28:47
Black Lives Matter, just in general, but specifically how that organization, not the phrase, but how
28:52
that organization is infiltrating what a lot of, well, I guess, what Christians are thinking today.
28:56
Yeah. So I actually wouldn't say that the organization has co-opted the phrase. They created a phrase
29:02
in a very cunning manner, because they know being as satanic as they are, they know that
29:11
that phrase is so, it's so good. It's so kind of, because who can really say that Black Lives
29:17
don't matter? As you said, everyone does. So by coming up with that term, with that phrase,
29:22
they make it extremely difficult for someone to reject them. But look, I don't use that term
29:28
at all, because as you implied, I've said that while God's words are better, that I can say that,
29:33
man, we are all made an image of God, that we are all fearfully and wonderfully made. And I trust,
29:38
and I like God's words better than I like. Some people's words, especially Marxists.
29:42
But I think the reason why they've been able to infiltrate the church is because that phrase
29:47
sounds so good, and a lot of people are afraid. But also, to be frank, a lot of pastors seem to
29:52
be more concerned about wanting to protect their ministry than wanting to protect the church.
29:58
One of the things that I've noticed, which has been honestly, it's been encouraging, but yet also
30:02
sad, is that in Virginia, for example, with the, I think, two months ago, or maybe I'm forgetting,
30:07
maybe last month, when you had the election. Well, the election was really one for the Republicans
30:13
in part because you had a lot of mothers who were going to schools, and they were angrily
30:19
saying, "No, you will not teach critical race theory to my children. You will not teach my Black
30:23
children that they are oppressed, just because they're Black, and you will not teach my white
30:27
children that they are oppressed just because they're white." But you had Christians, especially
30:31
Christian men, or Christian pastors, being completely quiet or embracing critical race theory
30:38
because Black Lives Matter has done a great job of, now, by a great job, I don't mean a good job,
30:43
it just means great in terms of their agenda into trying to silence the church and to try
30:47
to tell people that, "Look, either you agree with us, or you are racist." And a bit part of
30:53
that is because, again, the phrase is very cunning, but as a whole movement, I think a lot of pastors,
30:59
a lot of Christians who are afraid of offending Black Christians, which is actually racist, right?
31:05
There was a tweet by a man that I respect, but he was saying how a lot of his Black
31:16
friends tell him that they don't trust him, and that's because people who look like him
31:21
have hurt people who look like them, and he's like, "Yeah, he understands." I'm like,
31:26
"Wait a minute. What if a white person said to you, 'You know what? Some of my relatives were
31:32
killed by Black people, and therefore now I don't trust any Black person anymore.'" They'll say,
31:38
"Well, hey, we're sorry about that history, we're sorry about that pain, but that's racist,
31:44
that's partiality, you cannot do it." But again, because a lot of pastors or white Christians seem
31:50
to be very much afraid of being against Black Lives Matter, or being against critical race theory,
31:56
or saying the truth to Black people because they might offend them, they didn't disagree
32:01
with some of these ideas. But like I said, this is actually all racism because love does not
32:06
rejoice at wrongdoing. True love is okay with offending someone because you know what is best
32:13
for them is for them to agree with God, it's for them to love God, not for them to love you or like you.
32:19
But we're not allowed to offend anybody, Samuel. I don't know if you know this or not. I don't
32:22
know if the news has gotten to you. If you offend somebody, that is the worst thing you could possibly
32:26
do. But if you look at all the issues that we're having in the church, and yes, I'm painting with
32:29
a broad brush here, but the epidemic of abortion inside the church, a lot of people inside the
32:34
church have abortions, a lot of people inside the church get divorces, a lot of people, and I'll
32:38
use the divorce one here really quick. I've been the one guy standing on an island by myself
32:43
begging my friend who's considering getting a divorce to not do it. It's like you made a covenant
32:49
before God, my brother, I'm putting relational chips in the middle. And so many guys are just
32:53
concerned. It's like, what's the worst thing that can happen? He punches you in the face and doesn't
32:57
talk to you anymore. Like, is that worth not standing up for biblical truth? What exactly
33:02
are you talking about? Because that pastor in that moment, they're trying to agree with the
33:07
cultural zeitgeist at that moment so that people don't get mad at them. It's exactly what you said.
33:11
But I don't understand how we've gotten to this point where the highest virtue you can have
33:15
is to be a nice guy that doesn't ever offend anybody. And I don't want to get into the manhood
33:19
thing, but yeah, go ahead, go ahead. Yeah, I can't stand it. It is we, the word let's nuance this,
33:25
which really means let's make this less clear. That's literally what the word means. Right,
33:30
let's make it more confusing to understand. Exactly, because then we don't want to offend
33:34
anybody because we think, see, it always abases me, Christ is the most loving, he is love. Christ
33:40
is love. He is, he is gentle. He is patient. He is truthful. They crucified him. You cannot,
33:48
like, are we trying to, our righteous Christ? You can't. If you truly love someone, if you are
33:55
gentle, you're patient, you're truthful. If you are truly being like Christ, you will offend people.
34:01
It is the nature of biblical theology that is offensive to unbelievers and to Christians.
34:07
Look, I get offended by my pastor's sermon every Sunday. Exactly. I thank God for that,
34:15
because I need to be offended so I can repent. That's the nature of a Christian life that we are
34:20
always being offended because we are sinful people and then we are repenting. But unfortunately,
34:25
many of us think that we are more, we are better than Christ in that, well, we can, we can somehow
34:30
love people with the truth without offending them, which is impossible. Now, of course,
34:34
we don't want to be needlessly offensive. We don't want to be out there just trying to offend people.
34:40
But if you are patient and you are telling the truth, it was true of Christ. It was true of the
34:45
apostles. It was true of every single Christian generation, except for in some ways ours at least
34:51
in the West where because we've been so afraid of speaking the truth, we've been trying to
35:01
guard ourselves from being called out. But the thing is, well, as the Bible says,
35:08
everybody who wants to live a godly life will be persecuted. And that includes being called
35:13
offensive and being called bigots, being called a racist, being called all these things.
35:18
And I think the thing that people need to understand more so than maybe anything else is if you are
35:24
getting hit with slings and arrows, that means you're doing something correctly. Again, I'm not the
35:28
first person to point this out by a long shot. But if you're not getting any blowback anywhere in
35:33
your life, whether in person on social media, anywhere else, it's because you're probably not
35:37
living in the biblical truth that you claim to believe in. And that's one thing I told someone
35:40
the other day is they're like, they kind of asked me, they're like, why do you say such incendiary
35:44
things? And why do you say them in the way that you do? Why do you get so passionate? And I was
35:48
like, because I'm always shocked at how little the slings and arrows hurt. Like, it just doesn't
35:53
bother me that much. Because it's like, it's not fun. I'd prefer not to be doing those things.
35:58
But you know, it's not that big a deal, especially since we know that we win in the end. That should
36:03
be think we should we should look at all of this as like, hey, that we're being like Christ in this
36:08
moment by taking this and, you know, just fortunately for us, we don't have to die on a cross. But one
36:12
thing that's important to talk about here, Samuel, something I've thought about a lot,
36:16
because I think about this with guys like you, with guys like you've already talked about like
36:19
Vodie Bockham or Daryl Harrison or Virgil Walker. The one thing that I don't know if I want to say,
36:25
like, I'm afraid of it, because we just got through talking about being fearful or whatever.
36:28
But I'm cautious about tokenism with guys like you. And again, I'm putting all you guys in a
36:35
category, which is super racist. But as a Christian, a black person that is a Christian that has
36:40
conservative values, those types of things, it seems like it y'all can be very easily, you know,
36:45
caricatured by the left, but taken advantage of by the right, because it's like, oh man, you know,
36:50
there's something in the news that seems kind of racist. Let's bring Samuel on the talk about it to
36:54
kind of provide cover for us. You know what I mean? Like, and again, caricature one side, you know,
36:59
using it on the other side. But what are your thoughts on that? Because for me, I want to hear
37:04
from you when something racist happens. I want to hear from Vodie. I want to hear from Larry Elder.
37:09
I want to hear from these people. I don't want to hear from somebody that's just like making it up
37:13
as they go along. But do you have any concerns over tokenism? That's an incredible question.
37:18
I actually don't. But what I will say is this. I imagine there are some people who are happy to
37:29
promote guys like myself or Vodie, who's a hero, and as are Virgil and Darryl, because of their
37:39
cowardice, that's the problem. If a white believer or a white conservative is afraid to speak the
37:47
truth, and therefore they say, well, you know what? I'll let a black person do it. That way,
37:52
I won't get the blow back. I don't have an issue with them promoting me or anybody else.
37:57
I have an issue with the reason why. And that's my because concern there wouldn't be the tokenism.
38:05
It would be their cowardice. So if someone is doing that, and I say, hey, you have a mouth,
38:10
the way I do, you have you have a mind, the way I do, you can speak the truth, because here's the
38:17
thing. It's actually not that easy for me to speak on it, because I'm still being called a racist.
38:22
I was actually canceled by university because I spoke out against this stuff. Now, in some ways
38:28
easy for me to talk about it, but I'll still be called names as well too. So that's the issue
38:33
there. It's the cowardice. The other thing is this. I think there is something to be said about being
38:40
wiser, serpents, and being as innocent as does. I didn't butcher that text. But
38:49
what I mean is this. There's nothing wrong with using the ideas of the culture against them.
38:58
What I mean is they talk about listening to Black voices. They talk about how essentially Black
39:03
people have a monopoly on the truth. Well, I think there is a wisdom in saying, okay, well,
39:11
then we're going to have Black people then go against what you're saying and see how you respond
39:17
to that. And I think for many, many people, I know some people like this who were initially
39:22
embracing critical race theory, when they see how some of their friends were treating me,
39:27
they're like, wait a minute, wait a minute here. Who is the racist? Right? So I think by elevating
39:32
certain Black, you know, Christian voices like Avadi or Darryl or Virgil, it tends to expose the
39:40
hypocrisy and the racism of the culture. So I think it depends on the motives. I don't have
39:48
an issue at all with someone saying, you know what, given what's happening in the culture,
39:52
let's have, and that's not because I want to promote myself. It's not that I, the other guys
39:56
I've mentioned are much better than me, they're much wiser than I am. But I think that just I
40:01
know it's an accusation of the left, but they only saying that because they are afraid that they,
40:07
because let's face it, by their own worldview, it's very difficult for a white leftist or white
40:13
critical race theorist to really defend their words against me. So for example, in her book,
40:19
Robin DiAngelo, talking about white fragility, she essentially says that, well, if anybody calls
40:25
you a racist, don't defend yourself. If you do so, you're being fragile, you're being racist.
40:30
So then I said, okay, I'm saying as a Black person that her book is racist, and she can't defend
40:35
herself. She has to agree, right? And she can't say anything to that. So I think again, that's
40:40
using their foolishness against them through people like me.
40:44
When you're talking about cowardice, one of the things I thought about is like cowardly men
40:48
that make their woman say something, right? They're going to make their wife like raise their hand
40:52
and say something because they're like, well, they probably can't punch her in the face, but they
40:56
might punch me in the face. But you kind of see what I'm saying, like, they'll hide behind their
40:59
spouse and do all those different things. But it is a different level of cowardice. But one thing
41:03
that I tell people, because you know, I want to ask you about the abortion thing here in just a second.
41:06
But when people say like, no fetus or sorry, like no, no uterus, no opinion, like something like that,
41:12
or you're not Black, you can't possibly understand their lived experience. I've been reliably informed
41:17
that I can just believe I am something different than I am biologically. So I would just ask that
41:22
person attack the worldview. I tell people go on offense, say, Hey, I would like to identify
41:27
as a woman for the remainder of this conversation that we have about the subject of abortion. So now
41:31
can I have an opinion? Right? Because they're not going to really like that very much. But you're
41:34
attacking a worldview. But let's go ahead and get into abortion because I've been teeing it up enough.
41:39
This was a tweet that you wrote. I don't know when you wrote it doesn't really matter because it's
41:42
evergreen. But I want to get a little bit more context on this quote. One of the biggest indictments
41:46
against the social justice movement or the identity politics, politics movement within evangelicalism
41:51
today is that it hasn't produced a greater passion against the biggest human rights violation of our
41:56
time abortion. In fact, it's producing more apathy and support for abortion. Again, you're calling out
42:03
the church here, you're calling out these things and it goes back to what I said earlier. Most
42:07
Christians don't have a solid pro life foundation where they're they're basing what they're doing on
42:12
the Bible or on truth or anything like that. So when culture gives them an argument that pushes
42:17
back even ever so slightly on their pro life worldview, they just fall completely to pieces.
42:22
But why say something like that? Because I'm sure that offended a lot of people where you're like,
42:27
surely not, we're just supporting abortion in the church all of a sudden. But it's true.
42:31
Yeah. So I this is something that's been really troubling me for the last number of years.
42:40
A lot of people that I know, including some prominent people that I don't know personally,
42:46
but I've been seeing I've been reading some of their work and stuff and they've absolutely shown
42:51
more apathy towards abortion. And in some cases, more support for abortion over the last number of
42:57
years because of embrace critical race theory. I'll say it frankly, the BD, who is you know,
43:04
fairly prominent evangelical, says that, well, abortion isn't the biggest issue in America. It's
43:09
actually racism. Now mind you, abortion kills about a million babies, including 300,000 black babies
43:17
a year. And he is saying that supposedly racism is a bigger issue, not murder against little
43:22
children who cannot defend themselves. Okay, there are many people like Jamar Tisby, actually,
43:27
who was a friend of a good friend of his, and he's become a prominent voice in the critical race
43:31
theory or anti racism movement, who has pretty, he's careful not to so-called nuanced issue,
43:40
but he is in support of critical support of abortion. He defends abortion as being a complicated
43:46
issue. No, it's not abortion is murder. There are a number of these woke critical race theories
43:51
within the church who have absolutely embraced abortion. And then that's just the people who are
43:58
more supportive of it. Then you have people like, you know, Thibidi, like I mentioned earlier,
44:02
who are more apathetic. See, last year was a very fascinating year for me. It proved everything
44:07
that I already knew, which was I'm a pro-life advocate. And I've been trying to get Christians
44:13
and churches to become much more vocal on the abortion issue. I mentioned in a tweet about a
44:18
week or so ago that 20% of women who get an abortion go to church at least once a week.
44:27
People couldn't believe it. That means that at least 200,000 babies killed every year in America
44:33
are from people who go to church at least once a week. And yet when I was trying to get churches
44:40
and people involved in abortion, they're saying, well, you know, we have other things to do. We don't
44:44
have time. It's difficult. But then last year, every church came out of the woodwork and was
44:51
talking about how much they hate racism and they're, they're against systemic racism and all this
44:56
stuff. So apparently they had the time, apparently they had the time. But that's because they thought
45:01
that was important. But the abortion issue, which kills about a million George Floyd's.
45:08
Now, what I mean by that is George Floyd is a human. Now, I don't want to get too controversial
45:13
here. I go for it. We're already way past that, man. Just go for it.
45:17
I think that there, I think Derek Chauvin, I think that Derek Chauvin thing was a,
45:21
was a terrible, terrible situation in terms of, look, obviously, I don't want anyone to die.
45:27
Nevertheless, there was no evidence of racism there at all. In fact, it's at the very least
45:34
very disputable that it was actually Derek Chauvin who ended up killing him. There are a number of
45:40
factors of drug overdose and number of different things. Nevertheless, if we care about George
45:46
Floyd because he's a human, well, okay, there are a million, there are a million people who are
45:52
being killed except they're not criminals like George Floyd, except they are completely defenseless
45:58
and they're actually being murdered. And we don't care. If we're being honest, as a church,
46:03
we don't care that much. In fact, it's mostly the Catholics who are dealing with this issue,
46:08
not the church. It's mostly also women. I know this because I was one of the very few women,
46:12
few men, I was a woman, I was one of the few men who was involved. And I'll say this,
46:17
I know this appeal to the audience. I don't know if you saw this, but in Toronto,
46:24
there was a man who Roundhouse kicked a pro-life woman two or three years ago. I actually
46:32
know that person. I was doing pro-life work in Toronto. And he actually tried to attack
46:37
one of my female colleagues. And I ended up pulling him and I put him down and kind of roughing up a
46:43
little bit. But I mentioned that because not only do we not have enough questions dealing with this
46:52
issue, we don't have enough men either. And yet, last summer, you had all these men, all these
46:58
Christian men at these riots or these protests. And it boggles my mind. So going back to what you
47:06
said, absolutely critical race theory, social justice, all this stuff is leading to more apathy
47:13
and more support for abortion. And it's breaking my heart because, in fact, abortion is still killing
47:19
over the last couple of years since COVID has actually gone up higher around the world.
47:24
So it truly disturbs me that you have all these churches and all these Christians talking about
47:30
how much they hate racism and all that, which honestly, many of them, I'm sure they do hate
47:34
racism. But for some of them, they really don't. They're anti-racist, right? But then when it comes
47:39
to the abortion issue, which is killing so many black babies, and of course, different kinds of
47:43
babies, they don't care. I think every situation requires you to draw a line in the sand. So if
47:50
you're dating somebody and you're like, okay, here's my line in the sand. If the person goes
47:54
beyond this line, we're just not compatible. Like, we're not going to work in, I think you're
47:58
newly engaged. So I think you understand where some of those lines are, right? And congratulations
48:02
on that. But also, the thing that I don't understand, and it's good to get passionate and got
48:08
believe me, I've gone way on the passionate side on the abortion topic, especially on this podcast,
48:13
even recently, I don't understand. And I'm saying this is controlled as I possibly can,
48:18
how abortion is not the line for people inside the church. How is that not the line? Okay,
48:24
because you're right, racism, bad, horrible. And in someone who even said this on Twitter,
48:29
I forget who even said it, but they said the Roe v. Wade decision is the worst decision in the
48:33
history of the United States. That includes all the ones that basically said black people weren't
48:37
people that said, you know, all those other different decisions that I can't think of off the top of
48:42
my head that were horribly racist and evil in their intent, not just in their result, but in their
48:47
intent. But no, these people weren't dying. And I know that that's horrible to say. But I bet
48:53
you if you asked slaves in any context in the history of the planet, whether they would rather
48:58
to be a slave that's alive or a dead person, I would say the majority of them would probably say
49:03
they'd rather be alive. Now, again, I'm painting with a broad brush here, having never been a slave
49:07
myself, right? And the overwhelming majority of people listening to this have also never been a
49:10
slave. But how can that not be the line, Samuel? I don't understand it. Why won't these men reach
49:17
down the front of their pants, realize they still have a pair and say, no, this is an abomination.
49:22
Can you imagine what would happen if Christians hit the streets like people did for the George
49:26
Floyd riots last year, but only for the sake of the unborn, right? We're sitting here hoping
49:32
and praying and we're grasping our Bibles, hoping that Roe v. Wade is overturned by this case that's
49:36
in Mississippi. But what these idiots don't understand is if Roe v. Wade is overturned,
49:40
it just goes back to the States. And there's about 30 States out of the 50 that are ready to say,
49:45
yeah, abortion for any reason for whatever reason. And by the way, taxpayer, you got to pay for it.
49:49
And again, I'm getting excited. This is my podcast, but I'm interviewing you. I want to give you a
49:52
chance to get in here. Why isn't that the line? I love it. Man, it's you mentioned something about
49:59
and you're completely right about how the slaves would have much rather be slaves than to be dead.
50:07
Well, not just that. They get tortured to death, right? Like abortion. See, one of the things that
50:13
we would do, we would do in our pro-life work is that we would show people what happens to babies
50:20
when they get aborted. We would show them the pictures and it shocks people. When people would
50:24
see it, about 70 percent of them would actually become more pro-life just by seeing the image.
50:30
Because people don't realize we've sanitized abortion, a woman's right to choose. No, it is,
50:35
it is a horrific way to die, a horrific way. These babies get torn apart limb by limb.
50:43
Their scores get crushed. It is absolutely horrific. We, I mean, even back in the day when
50:51
there were very harsh penalties, now I'm completely for the death penalty. Nevertheless,
50:55
back in the day, you had some very harsh torture sometimes. They didn't have it even as bad
51:00
as these babies do in the womb, right? And again, they're not just, you know, they're not dying.
51:05
They're being murdered and yet many of us still don't care. You mentioned the slaves. Well,
51:10
about I think roughly 200,000 slaves were brought from or forced from Africa to America.
51:19
Well, that's again, 200,000 is one too many. But in America, there've been 20 million black
51:26
babies murdered, 20 million since Roe v. Wade. Overall, it's 50 million for all babies.
51:33
It's horrific, horrific. But unfortunately, again, we don't care as much as we should.
51:38
So it's really disturbing that you have such an injustice, the worst human rights violation
51:46
in the history of the world. And unfortunately, many of us are still sleeping all right. We're
51:50
still sleeping fine, knowing this is happening, including inside our churches.
51:54
I would, I was just jotting this down as you were talking. I think the problem, Samuel,
52:00
is if we actually cared, I mean, we, the collective we of the people inside the church,
52:05
if we actually cared, guess what? It's going to require something of us.
52:09
And we are inherently lazy and we're fat in this modern context of, you know, hard times
52:15
make strong men, strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make hard times.
52:20
We're in the weak men making hard times thing. Because guess what? If you actually believe
52:24
that what was happening in an abortion facility was murder, you wouldn't stand for that. Because
52:28
guess what? If you felt like sending your kid to daycare, which my kid is at daycare right now,
52:33
if if people were just just getting slaughtered and pulled their limbs being pulled off their
52:38
bodies and their heads being crushed at daycare, don't you think some men would get together in
52:42
their trucks and drive down to the local daycare and prevent that from happening? Right? That doesn't
52:46
mean kill all the teachers doesn't mean kill all the abortion doctors, but it does mean to kill the
52:50
business because abortion is big business and a lot of people are profiting off of it. And we're
52:55
just kind of like, Oh, yeah, it's bad. It's so unfortunate. But what are you gonna do? It's like,
53:00
no, no, no, no, no, it's not. Oh, they're painting the church walls this color and I don't exactly
53:04
prefer that. That's not what we're talking about here. Again, it's an issue that I just unfathomable
53:08
to me that more people aren't are, you know, fired up about it. But go ahead. I've said this before,
53:14
and I like saying it a lot because I think it goes to show people our blindness and our hardness
53:20
on this issue. I've said to people that if you if we learned that a million two year olds were
53:29
being killed every year, what would you react? What would you do to that? What would you mean?
53:35
We would be furious. The church would be would be you'd be we'd be addressing this every week,
53:42
we'd be out there. Never mind just a summer of protest. There'd be protest every
53:47
we would be absolutely committed to ending this. Well, what's the difference between that
53:54
and those same two year olds, but just two years before, before that, then being
54:00
preborn in the womb. What's the difference? They're just human. Right. The differences is we believe
54:06
the cultural lie. We have believed this cultural lie that, hey, you know, Roe v. Wade is just kind
54:10
of the law of land is what it is kind of like with gay marriage. Oh, we're not allowed to talk
54:13
about how that's immoral anymore because, you know, a burger felt it's legal now, whatever.
54:17
Like that's part of the reason now is kind of that's what we've gotten into. And it's like, hey,
54:21
we're in our tribe now, like we're going to claim Christianity. We're going to claim those things,
54:25
but we're not actually going to do anything that's required of us. We're not actually
54:29
going to push back darkness because that's scary and we might get hurt and people might not like us.
54:33
And I think that potentially, I don't know how you segue away from abortion into any other topic,
54:38
but I do want to talk to you about something that you brought up that seemingly not very many
54:42
people talk about or think about and that's Christian nationalism. Okay. So he actually had a blog on
54:46
your website. I think you were actually looking at a book or something like that that you were
54:50
doing a book review. I'll put the link in the show notes when I find it, but it's this quote here,
54:53
quote Christian nationalism, as it's defined by many evangelicals today, doesn't mean what you
54:58
probably think it means. According to some of the biggest critics, Christian nationalism isn't
55:02
merely a corrosive cultural framework held by fringe evangelicals. No, they say Christian
55:07
nationalism is a destructive cultural framework held by most evangelicals. Okay, so talk a little bit
55:15
about Christian nationalism because I was supposed to debate someone over in the UK. I can't remember
55:20
her name. It's a Christian something something to blah, blah, blah. But anyway, it was a book
55:24
called Jesus and John Wayne. And the subtitle of the book was how white evangelicalism has ruined
55:31
a country and soured the church or something stupid like that. So reading this book made me
55:35
want to jump out of the tallest building off the top of the roof of the tallest building all the time.
55:39
And then this woman actually didn't even want to end up debating me. She wanted to do an interview
55:43
because she wasn't prepared for the debate. So that can give you an idea of as to whether or not
55:46
she likes to have her worldview challenge. But why is Christian nationalism kind of the new
55:51
buzzy thing to talk about for people? Oh, man. So I again, I'm really enjoying it. These are great
55:57
questions. This is because this is, you know, one of the things I talk about when I mention
56:02
the influence of critical race theory. Here's why this is a major issue within the church now,
56:07
or at least some claim it is. See, white nationalism is something that they've been talking about,
56:15
critical racism we've been talking about for a while because of the all right and things like
56:20
that. And they figured out that an easy way in the same way that they paint, you know, a few years
56:28
ago and still to this day, but especially a few years ago, they were calling every conservative,
56:32
every Trump voter, especially as a white nationalist. So they figured out that an easy way to try to
56:38
shame Christian conservatives into wanting to rethink our worldview and into wanting to make us
56:46
more leftist is to convince us that our traditional biblical values is actually just Christian
56:53
nationalism, which is essentially them saying we are all white Christian nationalist, that we've
56:59
embraced a white supremacist theology that again, they call Christian nationalism. Because I mentioned
57:07
in the article you're referring to the authors of the book that I was reviewing, they say that
57:14
essentially 80% of evangelicals, especially white evangelicals are our Christian nationalists,
57:22
they name people like Wayne Grudem and John Piper. Those two are just now look, even Piper, I have
57:32
some biggest agreement with Piper. I know he's a conservative, but I wouldn't even call him
57:37
that conservative. Wayne Grudem is a traditional basic, you know, evangelical conservative,
57:42
but they're saying that because again, if you are a conservative, and especially if you voted for
57:47
Trump, you are a Christian nationalist, but many people, because we're afraid of that term
57:52
nationalist, because they know it is tied to white nationalism or white supremacy,
57:58
they get very much afraid. And then of course, you know what happened with the
58:01
January 6 issue, and they're trying to tie that into Christian influence because some of the people
58:08
there were talking about wanting to be for their God and country, right? So that's what
58:13
Christian nationalism is, and it's a very, you know, it's very real Christian nationalism, real,
58:18
it exists where you have people who really believe that, you know, basically some kind of
58:25
a theocratic movement where they believe that America is God's very unique nation, and that,
58:32
you know, they want a essentially a European or white ethno state, things like that. It's very,
58:38
very, very rare. I looked into it. It's very, very fringe. Nevertheless, as always,
58:43
they wanted to make that much more prominent looking within the church as a way to push their
58:47
agenda. Well, I can put a bow on this Christian nationalism thing, and I can tell you exactly
58:52
why we're even talking about it. And it's one word, Trump. That is the reason that we're talking
58:57
about it, because he is the orange bookie man that we must fight against and people inside the
59:01
church that hate him. And this is why I say that. And it's basically not disputable, even though I'm
59:06
sure people would except for this woman, who's apparently scared to debate me. But they talk about
59:10
how I forget what the percentage was. It was like 80% of white evangelicals are 90% of white
59:15
evangelicals voted for Trump. And oh, isn't that horrible? But if you dig down and don't do a
59:21
univariable analysis, you would know that almost the exact same percentage voted for Mitt Romney,
59:26
who's the most milk toast white guy, maybe in the history of whiteness, right? And then before him,
59:31
almost the exact same percentage of white evangelicals voted for John McCain. So you're
59:35
basing your entire argument and your entire worldview on Trump bad. And I understand that Trump is an
59:41
immoral man, but he's representing and doing things and he governed in a way that was not immoral
59:46
in a lot of ways. And so this is coming to a guy that voted for him once out of all three of the
59:50
opportunities I had to vote for him. So I don't even like talking about Christian nationalism,
59:54
because it's like, this is so stupid. We don't need to talk about this anymore. There's way more
59:58
important topics, which is how we're going to segue into this next thing. Obviously, within
1:00:02
thought to life, we talk about manhood all the time. We talk about cultivating spiritual mental
1:00:07
and physical resilience and how those are the cornerstones of what makes a godly and in solid
1:00:13
man. But for you, it's my understanding, unless I've gotten this wrong, that you grew up without
1:00:18
a father, is that correct? Yeah. Okay. So for you, being one of the multitude of people,
1:00:24
every racial group, except for Asians in this country, there's this tremendous inequity with
1:00:29
fatherlessness inside the home for the black community in the last 50, 60 years, it's gone from,
1:00:34
you know, around 15% to around 75% for whites has gone from around 3% to around 30%. Fatherlessness
1:00:41
is rampant. It's not a race thing. It's a thing thing, right? But for you, growing up without a
1:00:46
father, how do you think that that has affected how you have personally developed as a man?
1:00:51
Oh, man. You know, to be funny, not to be funny, but to be honest with you, I don't care. I don't
1:00:58
mind that. You know, I actually didn't realize how much of an impact it had on me until I started
1:01:06
writing. One of the things with writing is it forced me to really think. It forced me to think
1:01:14
about how I see myself, how I see the world, and how I see everything in my life. And so I started
1:01:20
writing. I realized that when I wanted to be candid, I realized my insecurities that I didn't
1:01:27
know that I had as a man because I didn't learn from a man growing up. And I also didn't realize how
1:01:36
much to be frank, a lot of my sins, especially sexual sins in the past, how a lot of that started
1:01:45
because of my fatherlessness. For those who may not know, I don't always share this, but I think
1:01:52
it's appropriate to share this here. As early as five years old, I was committing sexual sin,
1:01:56
which is, you know, it's shocking. Especially when I see, you know, five-year-olds in my life
1:02:05
today, I'm like, man, how was I ever, you know, at that age doing that? But that's really because
1:02:13
my father wasn't home and never my mom wasn't home either. What I mean by that is she was forced
1:02:17
to work two jobs. So then I was always home alone. And then I saw things growing up and I ended up
1:02:24
trying to repeat those things as well. But I, it's absolutely had a major, I was also very
1:02:30
violent as well. I didn't graduate from high school until actually just this past year, actually,
1:02:35
when I ended up getting my diploma from high school. So it led me in a very, very bad path.
1:02:42
It wasn't until I became a Christian that I understood, you know, that I'm being adopted by God.
1:02:49
And then I ended up seeking, you know, older men to be mentored by. And especially even from afar,
1:02:55
reading Spurgeon, reading Marlutha, reading John MacArthur, listen to John MacArthur,
1:03:02
Paul Washer, bodyboke him, all these men that I ended up trying to understand what it really means
1:03:07
to be a man or a biblical man and wanting to emulate that in my life. Well, so that's an interesting
1:03:14
thing for me because obviously I have a lot of men in my life that didn't have their father,
1:03:17
don't know where their father is or the father left with the secretary never came back like
1:03:20
any number of things that could have happened. But, but dad just wasn't there. The thing that's
1:03:24
striking the most of me, Samuel, is when you look at the statistics, because everyone knows the
1:03:27
statistics for the most part is when dad's not around, you know, the grades go down, criminality
1:03:33
goes up like it has all these horrible downstream consequences. The interesting thing to me here
1:03:37
is that data only describes whether dad is present, not whether dad is any good, right?
1:03:45
So the doting dad that's at every ball game and reads with their kid and prays with them every
1:03:49
night is in the same category as the deadbeat that comes home comes home drunk, kicks the dog,
1:03:54
and you know, throws a bottle against the wall, just dad being around. And also,
1:03:59
the number of dads in a community has an effect on that. There was their school,
1:04:04
I believe it was in Louisiana. There was the spate of fights. There were these fist fights going on
1:04:09
every single day. And these groups of dads decided, we're going to take shifts and we're just going
1:04:16
to walk the halls of this high school. And we're just going to be around. And to my knowledge,
1:04:20
those men have not put hands on a single child to break them up and separate them from another
1:04:24
person. They're just around telling dad jokes, Hey, you better get to class. It looks like you're
1:04:29
going to be late. You don't look that fast, you know, just stuff like that. Just being around is
1:04:33
so important. And so this kind of goes back to me because, you know, you are engaged now. I think
1:04:37
that's kind of a new revelation for you in your life. But now that you are engaged, Samuel,
1:04:41
does it scare you? Because you didn't grow up in a house to see what a godly marriage looked like?
1:04:49
Neither did I slightly different circumstances. But does that scare you a little bit?
1:04:53
That's actually, I don't know if you if you're asking that question because you read one of my
1:04:58
one of my more recent articles. I don't think I caught it now. Okay. So actually, it's a fascinating,
1:05:04
I think, topic. So I wrote an article a few weeks ago saying I am not afraid anymore. And it was
1:05:11
in relation to me proposing to my my now fiancee. So this were my words to her when I when I when
1:05:19
I wanted me, I said, I'm not afraid anymore. And that was a reference to an article I wrote
1:05:25
a few years ago, which was that I am afraid. And in the article, I'm really just talking about my
1:05:29
fears over life and especially marriage, because I grew up with that at that. And I saw how my
1:05:38
father leave in my mouth, my mother, myself, how that really hurt my mom and how that affected me.
1:05:42
And I've been really worried about becoming like my dad. And because of that, I've just really been
1:05:50
very much fearful of marriage. Well, that actually led to that's that article is how I met my now
1:05:56
fiancee. She read that article, she commented on it. And then I replied to her and then we just
1:06:02
became friends and then we became a couple. So it's a pretty she's in Ohio and I'm in Toronto and
1:06:08
it was a crazy way to meet up. So then finally, when I ended up proposing to her,
1:06:13
a few months ago, I said to her that, Hey, I'm not afraid anymore. And that's because through her,
1:06:21
she's mentioned her dad and how her dad has had an influence on her. And I've been learning
1:06:26
a lot from her dad, or her dad and I are pretty close. So he's a biblical counselor. And he and
1:06:30
I have talked a lot. And I've learned so much from him. And honestly, I've just really learned
1:06:36
being a good father, being a good husband, it's just being a good Christian, it's just being a good
1:06:42
man. And that, of course, I'm so sure things that I don't know that I am sometimes a bit uneasy about,
1:06:49
but I'll just say to her last night, actually, that I'm just, I'm just confident that
1:06:53
if I'm being faithful to God, I'll be faithful to her, you know, in a lot of marriages, and I'm
1:06:59
not trying to give marriage advice because I'm not married. I don't be one of those guys who just
1:07:03
get married and then we can write a marriage book. But I've said that, you know, I've realized that
1:07:09
especially in older generations, not so much now, but a lot of marriages would stay together
1:07:16
for the kids. And that's not necessarily healthy, but it's still healthier than the alternative.
1:07:23
And I'm thinking to myself, wait a minute, if a lot of marriages stay together because they're
1:07:29
saying, well, we, we, there's something bigger than us. There is, there are children that we need
1:07:34
to be more committed to. And therefore, we won't, we won't, you know, we won't leave each other.
1:07:40
Well, then what about God? What about us? And there's something bigger than us in this marriage.
1:07:44
And it's not the children. It is actually God. Therefore, by being faithful to God first,
1:07:49
we can be faithful to each other and commit to each other. And I'll say it's very encouraging
1:07:54
knowing that if I'm just going to be a faithful follower of Christ, then I can trust that I'll
1:08:00
be a faithful leader in the home as well. Again, what's your foundation as a man? Is your foundation
1:08:06
some sort of secular confluence of all these different worldviews that you kind of like mold
1:08:11
together and coalesce into something that's vaguely moral? Or is it true and actual morality, right?
1:08:17
And I would say as well, you know, we've talked about Vodie Bakker. We mentioned him a few times
1:08:20
on this podcast, but he has a book that a lesser known book called Family Shepherds. And you know,
1:08:24
so the guy that actually connected connected me and you, Ryan Horne, he's one of the guys that's
1:08:28
one of our inner circle here, you know, he turned me on to that book and he turned me on to your work.
1:08:33
And that all comes together. Because if you focus on being a good Christian, it's really, really,
1:08:38
really hard to be a bad dad and to be a bad husband. It's really difficult. Kind of like
1:08:43
it's held that this is a little bit crass, but I think people understand. So people that know my
1:08:47
story, like part of my past is looking at pornography and masturbating. And that hasn't been a part
1:08:50
of my life in a very, very long time. But I tell people all the time, they're like, how do I stop
1:08:54
doing this? I'm like, well, the easiest way to stop looking at porn and jerking off is to
1:08:59
don't look at porn. And then, and the other thing is because, or make the decision, I'm not going
1:09:06
to masturbate anymore, because you're not watching porn for the acting skill. You're watching it
1:09:11
to get somewhere. You're using people right at so that you can find some sexual release. But for
1:09:17
a lot of people, it's like they're focusing on the wrong thing. It's like focus on being a good
1:09:21
person, right? And but not beyond that, because good is super relative focus on being a godly
1:09:26
person. And that's how we can get to some sort of an idea still like, that's how you become a good
1:09:30
father. That's how you become a good husband. It's all downstream of that one lifestyle decision
1:09:35
being marinated in the gospel. The next thing I brought up, I just kind of threw it in my notes.
1:09:40
It kind of feels haphazard at this point to even talk about it, because we could have spent the
1:09:43
entire time talking about this subject, because you've actually given quite a bit of thought to it,
1:09:48
but it's the LGBTQ plus stuff. And how it specifically is is inside the church as well. Again,
1:09:54
bringing it up towards the end of interviews a little bit unfair. But it's an nefarious thing,
1:09:59
you know, word of the day nefarious. It's a thing that's scary to me to see so many people inside the
1:10:04
church. I think, you know, a little while ago on iTunes, the number one song was by a either a
1:10:10
lesbian Christian singer, the number one worship song on the worship charts, the Christian worship
1:10:14
sock charts was either it was either a transgender person or a lesbian kind of talking about God's
1:10:19
love and all these different things. And it becomes this crazy issue. And I know there are some
1:10:23
denominations that are very, very accepting of LGBTQ. They don't see it as a sin. They just
1:10:28
see it as something that, you know, we have to deal with and it's part of God's creation.
1:10:32
But I guess that's the worst way possible to tee up a question. But LGBTQ plus the church,
1:10:37
why is it such a big deal, Samuel? Yeah, well, one, it's not an unfair question at all. It's a very,
1:10:42
a very relevant question. Why is it an issue? It ties back to a lot of us not wanting to agree
1:10:50
with the Bible. So it comes down to I had, I got an email from someone a few months ago,
1:10:59
and they were saying, Sam, I'm really struggling with this, you know, gay marriage thing. This is
1:11:05
a woman who's who's saying to me, she just feels bad that some of her co-workers are gay. And she
1:11:13
can't, and that she can't, you know, she's struggling as a Christian to not want to, you know, support
1:11:20
them. She say just feels wrong that why is it okay that straight people can get married, but then
1:11:25
gay people can't get married and everything else just seems just wants to love them. And I said to
1:11:28
her, wait a minute here, wait a minute, what you're really saying is you think you can love them more
1:11:33
than God does. And you need to repent. Because God's word, when it's when it talks about
1:11:42
the nature of sexuality talks about how it should be only between a man and a woman.
1:11:50
It's saying that because God loves his God loves humans, God loves people, God loves sinners.
1:11:56
And I'll say, I'll just say to my my fiance earlier that I'm so glad that her and I have waited
1:12:02
for marriage, because to be to be frank, I have something to look forward to. I'm really looking
1:12:10
forward to being with her. And then if I had sinned with her, I just don't know. I mean,
1:12:18
now I don't want to be I don't want to offend anybody who has sinned. It's as long as people
1:12:22
have repented. I know that some people fall. I mean, I as I said before, I've sinned obviously
1:12:29
before I started pursuing my fiance. So I know that some people even when
1:12:35
they're with their fiance is they sin. And then if they're repented, God redeems all that. God is
1:12:41
good and they can have a good marriage still. But I'm just very, very grateful that we will have
1:12:47
a, you know, I think a better marriage in our situation because we did not sin together
1:12:53
in that manner. Nevertheless, I'm saying that because I see God's love in his word, in that it's
1:12:59
better for us if we follow him and follow his words when it comes to sexuality. In the same way,
1:13:07
for people who are, you know, who are homosexual or transgender, we think that God is harming them
1:13:14
many times, not me and you, but many people that just think that was unfair. Well, no, God is
1:13:19
saying that because it's better for them to not be sinning in so many different ways, including
1:13:24
that they will not be living in our repentance sin and then be going to hell over that, right?
1:13:30
It's a loving thing to warn people in repentance. But in our thinking, we think it's actually better
1:13:35
if we lie to people, like I mentioned before, by lying to black people, you know, thinking that
1:13:40
we're being anti-racist, but we're lying to the gay and trans people by saying, "Well, it's okay.
1:13:48
It's all right." And then they end up being parishing over that. So anyway, go back to your
1:13:53
question about why this is a thing. I think it's because many of us are just choosing not to believe
1:13:57
the Bible. We're choosing to say that while we think we're more loving than God, we think that
1:14:02
it's better for people if they live in sin and then it be held accountable by God than judgment.
1:14:09
That's one of the things that I feel like is really difficult for me to understand
1:14:12
is why people categorize love in the way that they do. Because again, they are saying that they're
1:14:16
loving these people by allowing it. But if I were a cutter, let's say, let's say, oh, I cut myself
1:14:23
on a regular basis and had to go to the hospital a few times, how loving would it be to tell me
1:14:27
that that's an okay behavior, right? That's an okay thing for me to do. Or how loving would it be
1:14:32
to tell me that, yeah, you know what, you're frustrated in the way that you take out your
1:14:36
frustration as you cheat on your wife, like nobody would say that that's a good moral thing to do.
1:14:41
But we've, as a lot of Christians, it's like in order for us to be loving, we're not allowed to be
1:14:44
judging. But that's just, that's not really the way that we're supposed to really look at these
1:14:48
things. And again, I kind of gave short shrift to that subject. You know, that just means I'll have
1:14:51
to have you on again at some point here in the future. And we could talk more about some of these
1:14:55
other big topics. But another thing that's interesting about your story is that you're actually,
1:14:59
you're actually originally from Ghana. Is that correct? Yeah. And so you immigrated to the West,
1:15:04
right? So when did when did you immigrate to Canada? When I was 10 years old. So 10 years old. Yeah.
1:15:10
So so for a good chunk of your life, you spent in Africa, and then, you know, for the majority
1:15:14
of your life since then you've been in the West. Now here's the deal. Same. I've been reliably
1:15:19
informed that Western countries are the most racist ones. Okay, now here in America, I don't
1:15:24
know if you knew this, but we apparently send out roving gangs of highly lethal kill squads,
1:15:29
otherwise known as a police to hunt down and kill black people, right? So yeah, my question,
1:15:35
this is a sincere question. I hope you can tell by my face. Why would you subject yourself to such
1:15:40
danger by immigrating to a Western country? Why would you do that? Are you crazy? Yeah.
1:15:46
You know, people, I find honestly, I find white people fascinating by white people. I really mean
1:15:57
just Western people and just there are a lot of times their ridiculous views on America or Canada
1:16:04
or the West in that they're so privileged. They don't realize their privilege in that there are
1:16:10
parts of the world where we we beg and hope for police. We don't like being a victim of a crime
1:16:19
in Ghana and calling for the police. What? So here's the thing. In Ghana, there's a very serious
1:16:26
problem of mob justice there. And that when I was a kid, when I was about six, seven years old,
1:16:33
I saw armed robbers thieves being burned alive. I saw them. And you can only imagine what that does
1:16:42
to a kid doing that. I mean, seeing that. But the reason why it's so common there for them to kill
1:16:48
criminals or at least supposed criminals, because we don't know, it could be a false accusation,
1:16:53
it's because the cops there are terrible and that they're not that many good cops there.
1:16:59
So in this nation, I am glad that you actually have the police because it's a privilege to have
1:17:06
that. It really is. Not every part of the world has that. I don't want to defund them. They should
1:17:11
be more funded, actually. That's actually the biggest problem with cops, that there's actually
1:17:16
not enough funding or enough training for them. And it's not them, you know, them having way too
1:17:22
much training or way too much funding. So I oftentimes say this, it's not lost on me that
1:17:29
many years ago, some of my distant relatives were forced out of Africa. And they were forced
1:17:34
over the over the Atlantic Ocean to come to the West. And now my mother and I were happy and just
1:17:42
gleefully traveling over the Atlantic Ocean that artists and authors did not want to ever see.
1:17:48
My people, when it passed, did not ever want to see the Atlantic Ocean, but I was happy to see it
1:17:52
because I was coming to the West. Now, you know, in Ghana, we call the West, Abroad Street,
1:17:58
and it's like the faraway place is what it means. And as a kid, I honestly thought it was just a
1:18:04
place under heaven. You know, I guess in some ways, I was a fat earther, I guess. And then I did that.
1:18:10
Well, up there. So it's just right above heaven. I mean, right under heaven, I mean. And that's
1:18:14
because I knew it was a much more prosperous and peaceful place than what I was growing up in,
1:18:19
which is extreme poverty. So people don't realize I still have relatives who would die
1:18:25
who would do anything they can to come to the West because of the peace and prosperity we have
1:18:30
here. And yet many people are shaming the West. And it's not it's not a racist. I've trust me,
1:18:35
I've seen as much more racism in in Ghana than there is here, in that it's a different kind of
1:18:39
racism. And that's more tribal. But you have that there. We have we had slave owners in Ghana. My
1:18:45
people were oppressed by the bigger tribe in Ghana. Ghana has a very huge history of selling
1:18:51
slaves as well. To this day, you still have slavery in Ghana. It's very prominent there.
1:18:55
So anyway, I'm kind of probably going off topic. But the idea that the West is this oppressive nation,
1:19:01
at least against immigrants or black people, is absolutely ridiculous.
1:19:05
Yeah, it's hard for people to understand. And it's interesting. I'm glad that you actually said
1:19:09
that the level of racism that exists all over the planet, it's almost as if we're all sinful
1:19:14
beings and we do crappy things to other sinful beings, right? It's almost like we look at people
1:19:18
based on their immutable characteristics and not who they were created in the image of God. But for
1:19:22
you specifically, in the long term, you mentioned you're in Toronto, your fiance is in Ohio. What's
1:19:26
kind of the long term plans for you guys as you become one flesh and you know, start your marriage
1:19:31
and start your family and all those different things. Because I know living in Canada, you have,
1:19:35
you know, Justin Trudeau, how is he a thing? I have no idea how he's a thing. You have this crazy
1:19:39
COVID policy, which you know, you know, comparing it to the American and COVID policy. I mean,
1:19:44
it looks like a cake walk down here compared to what y'all are dealing with up north. I mean,
1:19:47
there's there's Mounties, there's syrup and there's moose. But what else do you have in Canada?
1:19:52
Are you going to come to America? Is that what we're doing? Come on, man, we need you here.
1:19:56
Well, you're very gracious. I don't think you guys need me, but I need America and I'm moving there.
1:20:02
That's the plan. So Lord willing, we're getting married as of right now, the plan is April and
1:20:08
I'll be moving there in April. Lord willing. Okay, very good. Now, if you're moving to Ohio,
1:20:13
there's some good hunting around there. So I don't know if you grew up hunting or if
1:20:16
you've done any of that. But I mean, that's something that you should get into. There's
1:20:19
some monsters out there. I'm African. I didn't do any kind of hunting. But, but I absolutely
1:20:26
look forward to that. I mean, I just started shooting last year. You know, so I'm one of those
1:20:33
Canadians who had no idea what to do with guns before. But now I'm just getting into that. I'm
1:20:37
very much looking forward to hunting. I can't wait. I know people there who love hunting, so I'll be
1:20:42
behind them learning the ropes. Well, I'll be excited for that because I'm the guy that didn't
1:20:46
grow up hunting at all. But I wanted to learn as an adult side to have something to pass down to
1:20:49
my sons. So I have one son now, one son on the way. So I'm going to be totally squared away on that.
1:20:54
But Samuel, as we roll to the end here, I do a section at the end of my podcast with certain
1:20:57
guests. It's a segment called what would you say to someone that said? So I'm going to say that.
1:21:02
What would you say to someone that said? And I'm going to fill in the blank. Here's the deal. You
1:21:06
get 30 seconds or maximum to respond to whatever I say. So if it's a big topic, a small topic,
1:21:12
I don't care. This is just meat and potatoes. Okay. So what would you say to someone that said,
1:21:16
are you up for it? Yep. Okay. Let's get it. Let's go into the first one. What would you say to someone
1:21:21
that said, there's no such thing as cosmic justice. So we must fight for social justice.
1:21:27
I would say then then that leaves room for all manner of injustice. Because then there's no
1:21:36
standard. And it's all subjective. And therefore, then anyone can do whatever they want against
1:21:41
the other person. All right. See, you're doing just fine. Let's go into the next one. What would
1:21:45
you say to someone that said theology is too difficult for me to understand?
1:21:50
That's impossible. I'm a high school dropout. I didn't finish college. And yet I think I'm
1:21:56
able to hold my own a little bit in theology. Anyone can do fine. Our load is a carpenter.
1:22:03
Theology, you can do it. Just read certain books and then you'll be fine.
1:22:08
Absolutely. What would you say to someone that said abortion is not immoral in some circumstances?
1:22:15
Abortion is always not just immoral, just pure evil. Abortion always is in the intentional killing
1:22:22
of a defenseless, pre-born baby. I encourage every single person who's listening to this to
1:22:28
check out. Just look for an aborted fetus and they will see for themselves how evil abortion is.
1:22:33
All right. What would you say to someone that said, the Bible is filled with fables and myths
1:22:39
from thousands of years ago. We shouldn't use it to tell us how to live today.
1:22:43
That's a lie. The Bible for generations, people have tried to go against the Bible and they can
1:22:49
never defeat it. The Bible is the infallible, authoritative, inerrant, inspired word of God.
1:22:56
It's full of prophecies and it's full of truth. And what they're saying is that it's not true.
1:23:01
What would you say to someone that said all white people are racist,
1:23:05
either covertly or overtly? That's a lie. That's actually racist as well too.
1:23:11
And if that's the case, it would mean that my Lord willing, my children would also then be half
1:23:21
racist too, which makes no sense. And hopefully if we ever get down to reparations, one half of
1:23:26
your kids will have to pay the other half of your kid, right? Inside the same person. I'm not sure
1:23:30
how that's going to work, but they're smart. They'll figure it out. What would you say to someone
1:23:33
that said, I'm afraid to speak out about my beliefs because I'm afraid of getting canceled?
1:23:39
You'd be canceled for not speaking anyway. So it might as well speak and then risk being canceled.
1:23:44
If you're a Christian, you will be hated. You'll be persecuted. So speak the truth and fear of God,
1:23:51
not men. All right, there's a couple more left here. What would you say to someone that said,
1:23:55
reformed Baptists and Calvinists are way more concerned about being right and not about loving
1:24:00
people? Being right includes loving people means being also includes being right. Now,
1:24:07
I think there are times where I don't think it's a Calvinist thing. I think everybody sometimes
1:24:11
wants to be more right than righteous, but I think as a whole, Calvin is very much cared
1:24:17
by the doctrines of grace. And I think for that, I think people over state that issue,
1:24:21
I think that it's not unique to a Calvinist or reformed people.
1:24:24
Okay, last question of the day, what would you say to someone that said racism is the unforgivable
1:24:31
sin? There is no unforgivable sin except for denying Jesus Christ. And it is absolutely
1:24:37
not. I've been racist before against different kinds of people. In many ways, we all probably
1:24:43
have, but God is good and God is gracious and every sin can be forgiven.
1:24:46
Well, Samuel, I got to say, I think we may have set an undaunted life of man's podcast record
1:24:52
with the most number of topics talked about in a single interview. So we have gone everywhere in
1:24:57
this conversation. I really appreciate all the time, but that is all for me. Is there anything
1:25:00
else you want to get off your chest? No, I just really enjoyed this. Thank you for having me.
1:25:05
It was a good time. And Samuel say, thank you so much for coming on undaunted life and man's podcast.
1:25:09
There you go, guys. And hey, I'm not even going to say, I hope you enjoyed my time with Samuel
1:25:14
say, because here's a deal. I say that with a lot of guys. But if you're still listening right now,
1:25:18
I know that you enjoyed it because it was awesome. I definitely know that it was before we let you
1:25:21
guys go though, we are going to do a quick resilience boost at undaunted life. Our mission is equipping
1:25:26
men to push back darkness. And specifically, we do that by providing content that for just spiritual,
1:25:30
mental and physical resilience. So I've got a bunch of links for you today. The main one is to
1:25:34
Samuel's website. It's slow to write.com. And then most of the blogs, I think I got them all that he
1:25:38
mentioned or that I mentioned with questions inside this episode, those are going to be there as well.
1:25:43
So you can check all those links out. All right, guys, thanks so much for listening to the show.
1:25:46
We do appreciate it. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave a positive
1:25:50
review. If you want to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, you shoot me an email to
1:25:54
info at undaunted.life. That's I N F O at undaunted.life. You can follow us on Instagram and TikTok and
1:26:00
like us on Facebook. And you can check out our website for everything else, including how to donate
1:26:04
to keep more content like this coming your way. Just go to www dot undaunted.life. We also want to
1:26:09
thank the band August Burns read for allowing us to use their music for our content. Rather,
1:26:13
the intro outro track on this podcast is their song cutting the ties, which is off their 10th
1:26:18
anniversary re recording of their album leveler. The links are in the description.
1:26:22
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual,
1:26:29
mental and physical resilience. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
1:26:59
[Music]