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RILEY GAINES | Swimming Against the Current (Ep. 607)

June 11, 2024 1h 3m Full transcript available
RILEY GAINES | Swimming Against the Current (Ep. 607)
0:00 / 1h 3m
In this episode, Kyle Thompson sits down with Riley Gaines, a champion swimmer and advocate for women's rights in sports, to discuss her experiences competing against a transgender athlete and the implications for female athletes. They dive deep into the cultural and spiritual battles surrounding gender identity and the importance of standing up for truth in a world that often feels upside down.
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1:18 This is Undaunted Life, a Man's Podcast.
1:22 I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
1:23 Let's get into it.
1:24 All right, guys.
1:25 You got a special guest on the podcast today.
1:27 Her name is Riley Gaines.
1:29 She's a 12-time All-American and champion collegiate swimmer.
1:32 She's a women's and girls rights advocate and America's most sought-after voice in the fight
1:36 to save female sports.
1:38 And that is not an overstatement.
1:39 She swim for the University of Kentucky where she won multiple titles and awards.
1:43 But in 2022, her life changed and I feel like the fabric of our society changed a little
1:48 bit.
1:49 At the 2022 NCAA Division I, women's swimming and diving championships, that's where her
1:54 life changed forever.
1:55 So she finishes the final for the 200-meter freestyle, which was like her best race.
2:00 And she looked up at the board and it showed that she had actually tied someone for fifth
2:03 place.
2:04 That someone was Leah Thomas, formerly known as Will Thomas, a dude that had previously
2:09 swam on the men's team at the University of Pennsylvania.
2:13 It was now swimming for the women's team, okay?
2:15 So the NCAA only had one trophy for fifth place.
2:18 So they made sure to give it to Leah and they told Riley, "Well, we need to make sure that
2:23 Leah is holding this in the pictures," right?
2:25 And so she had to give up her moment to a quote unquote trans woman, otherwise known as
2:30 a man because the NCAA needed to send a message.
2:33 So after that, Riley kind of had a moment where she had to decide if she was going to
2:37 speak out about her treatment, about what she had to endure and she has and she's continued
2:42 to do so.
2:43 And so in this interview today, we talk about her growing up in a very athletic family,
2:47 how that led to swimming, how that led to collegiate swimming.
2:50 But then when she first became aware of this person named Leah Thomas that seemingly came
2:54 out of nowhere and was beating women by entire body links in the pool, which just doesn't
2:59 happen in high level competition.
3:01 We talk about what she did in preparation for, "Hey, am I going to have to share a locker
3:05 room with this person?
3:06 Like, you know, how are we going to change in front of this person?"
3:08 Because trying to get into these suits is quite the process and you're basically exposed
3:12 the entire time, you know, what it's like having to mentally prepare for competing against
3:16 a man when you're trying to be the most elite person in your sex category, which is against
3:20 other women.
3:21 And then we talk about the race.
3:23 We talk about everything that happened afterwards with the NCAA representative and the people
3:27 at the podium and all of that.
3:28 But then we talk about how her life changed because here she was thinking she was going
3:31 to go to dental school.
3:32 And now here she is being an advocate for things that should be readily apparent to anybody
3:37 with a functioning brain.
3:38 So what's the day in the life of a women's rights advocate or a girl's rights advocate
3:42 or someone that's trying to save women's sports?
3:44 We talk about that.
3:45 We talk about her traveling to college campuses and being accosted and actually being physically
3:49 assaulted, being called a transphobe, but then we spend a good amount of time talking
3:53 about her Christian faith because that is what undergirds everything that she's doing.
3:57 So she's not just advocating this way because she's a, you know, a conservative or because
4:01 she's an old school type of gal.
4:03 She's doing it because she's a Christian and how, you know, fighting for capital T truth
4:07 is actually a thing that we should all be doing.
4:09 And then we talk about, you know, what does life look like from here, you know, suing
4:12 the NCAA.
4:13 She's got to book out.
4:14 Is she going to be doing this for the long run?
4:15 But then for everybody, all the parents out there listening to this, especially those
4:19 with athletic females in your house, you know, daughters, she talks about what are we supposed
4:25 to do because in all these situations, it's like there's a vacuum that's been created
4:29 by these men that don't want to stand up to defend their daughters or as a coach or a principal
4:33 to defend the females that are competing with their school's name across the gal's chest.
4:38 And so she gives us some very practical advice on what to do there.
4:41 So I was very happy to get this interview done.
4:43 We met a long time ago.
4:45 We've just been kind of missing each other with schedule.
4:46 So I was glad we finally got it done.
4:48 Really enjoyed my time with her.
4:49 So without further ado, let's get into it.
4:53 Riley Gaines.
4:54 Welcome to a dog to life of man's podcast.
4:56 Well, thank you.
4:57 I am thrilled to be on with you.
5:00 This was a lot of back and forth were both such busy people.
5:03 So this is very exciting.
5:05 So thank you.
5:06 I'm glad we finally got this going now, Riley.
5:08 I know you've answered a lot of very important questions here, not just recently, but for
5:11 the last couple of years.
5:13 And we're going to answer a lot of really important questions here today, but there's probably
5:16 no more important question than the one I'm going to start out asking you.
5:19 And it's, what did you order at Cudoba the day that we met?
5:23 Because to get everyone in the background, I'm Riley, I'm minding my own business.
5:27 I've got my AirPods in, I'm sitting in the line at the Denver airport at Cudoba.
5:30 I don't even know where I'm flying to.
5:31 I don't know if I'm coming or going.
5:33 And then I turn around and it's like, oh, that's Riley Gaines.
5:36 And so I just reached my hand down and say, hi, Riley, you know, nice to meet you.
5:40 I really like your work.
5:41 I have a podcast you want to come on into your credit.
5:43 You're like, yeah.
5:44 And so I go on about my business.
5:46 I get my steak burrito with queso.
5:48 And then I just take off and then here we are months later doing this, but I've just been
5:51 so curious.
5:52 What did you order?
5:53 Oh, my gosh.
5:54 You're so funny.
5:55 I, um, gosh, I think I got a bowl.
5:58 I think that's why I typically get.
6:00 I know.
6:01 You don't really like the tortilla.
6:02 I get it.
6:03 It's not all.
6:04 We know that kind of stuff.
6:05 Oh, please.
6:06 I wish I wish that was why.
6:07 No, my diet is atrocious.
6:08 Well, right now it's like your, your diet basically consists of whatever the gas station
6:13 or the airport has available.
6:14 So we can give you a little bit of.
6:15 You know it.
6:16 You know it all too well, huh?
6:17 Okay.
6:18 Yeah.
6:19 I do know.
6:20 I do know.
6:21 You're doing a lot of traveling here.
6:22 And so that's okay.
6:23 We'll give you a little bit of reprieve.
6:24 Very beginning.
6:25 And I know you've had to talk about all this, but for anybody out there who has not heard
6:28 your name or knows your story, we need to start with athletics because athletics is
6:32 obviously a big part of your life, but you have a unique kind of story because you grew
6:37 up in a family full of athletes, like I grew up in a family where I was the only athlete.
6:42 I was the only one that can walk and chew gum at the same time.
6:45 That is not what the Gaines household was all about.
6:47 So talk to us a little bit about growing up like that.
6:49 No, you're exactly right.
6:51 I'm so fortunate to come from a family where I had that foundation.
6:56 My dad, he was an SEC Hall of Famer.
6:59 He played football.
7:00 He went on to play in the NFL for a while.
7:03 My mom, she's a Division I softball player, my older sister.
7:07 She played softball.
7:08 She went to Ole Miss.
7:09 My brother.
7:10 He's in college.
7:11 He plays football now.
7:12 My younger sister, she is a elite-level gymnast.
7:16 I would never tell her this, but she's probably the best athlete of all of us.
7:21 All my dads, brothers, I mean, they've won Super Bowls, all kinds of just insane, crazy
7:26 things.
7:28 So growing up playing sports, it was really never even an option.
7:32 We weren't really allowed to not play sports.
7:35 I'll tell you, my dad, they never told us which sport we had to play, right?
7:40 Obviously given me and my siblings all did different sports.
7:43 So I did a bunch, I did a lot of, you know, like a lot of little kids do.
7:46 I played soccer, I did basketball, all the different things.
7:52 But I, of course, I was drawn to swimming, which my dad, being a big old football player,
7:58 right?
7:59 He used to be big.
8:00 Now I think he's kind of just fat.
8:01 Uh-oh.
8:02 I know, right?
8:03 But when I started swimming, he said, no, Riley, like I told you you had to play a sport.
8:09 This is just like a recreational hobby.
8:11 This isn't a sport, to which I'd tell him, you know, dad, it's hard.
8:15 This is a sport.
8:16 He'd say, no, it's not.
8:17 No, it's not.
8:18 But I stuck with it.
8:19 Uh, and I'll tell you, his justification for this was any sport, any activity where a man
8:24 is wearing panties is not a sport, that's what he would say.
8:28 Um, but of course I stuck with it, uh, very fortunate to, uh, receive a scholarship to
8:35 continue my athletic and academic career at the University of Kentucky, uh, which was
8:41 there really couldn't have been a better place for me.
8:43 Uh, and by the end of, of my collegiate career, when I graduated, my dad finally came around.
8:48 Uh, I started breaking SEC records and doing some pretty incredible things and he would
8:53 be there for those meets and watch, uh, and see the energy, see the environment, uh, see
8:58 how, you know, the hard work was paying off and finally, finally, he admitted that swimming
9:03 was in fact a sport.
9:05 Well, hey, I'm, I'm glad Daddy Gaines finally came around.
9:08 That's, that's really, really important.
9:09 And here's the thing I've heard you talk about before.
9:12 The level of training that you had to do, the, the number of hours you had to put in in
9:16 the pool, not just, you know, in total, but every single day, the amount of calories
9:21 burned and then, you know, you're waking up early, you're doing all this, even during
9:24 COVID, I think you were like swimming in some lakes somewhere, right?
9:27 You know, you were doing everything you could.
9:29 So yes, it's a sport that doesn't have a defense, but it's a sport nonetheless.
9:33 And so it requires a whole lot of you.
9:35 And so we got to speed up to the Leah Thomas part because obviously you're a collegiate
9:40 swimmer.
9:41 You've got all the trophies.
9:42 You're leading your team.
9:43 And then you become aware of somebody that you've never heard of before.
9:47 That is all of a sudden smashing people in a lot of the races that you participate in.
9:52 And so let's, let's go there, Riley.
9:54 Let's go to when you became aware of this person, namely a Thomas, and then we'll kind
9:59 of like, you know, spread out the story from there.
10:01 Yeah, so my junior year at the University of Kentucky, I ended up concluding my junior
10:07 season by placing seventh in the country, which I was proud of, your top eight, you're
10:13 an all-American.
10:14 It's a pretty high honor, but not my best time.
10:18 I knew I was capable of more.
10:20 And so I was right then and there that I placed seventh my junior year that I set a
10:22 goal for my senior year to win a national title, which would, of course, mean becoming
10:27 the fastest woman in the country in my respective event.
10:30 And so senior year rolls around and I'm right on pace to achieve this goal, about midway
10:36 through my senior season, I was ranked third in the nation in the 200 free, trailing the
10:40 girl in second, a girl I knew very well by a few 100s, a few tenths of a second, maybe.
10:48 But the summer who was leading the nation by body links, might I add, was a summer that
10:54 none of us had ever heard of before.
10:56 Not me, not my teammates, not my coaches, not my family, not my other competitors, none
10:59 of us had heard this name, of course, that name being Leah Thomas.
11:06 For all we knew at the time, keep in mind we hadn't seen a photo of this person or else
11:10 things would have been a little more clear.
11:12 But for all I knew at the time, this was a senior from University of Pennsylvania, which
11:18 is not a school that has ever historically produced that caliber of summers, leading the
11:23 nation by body links and events ranging from the 100 freestyle and all the freestyle events
11:28 in between through the mile, so sprint events, distance events, mid distance events, all
11:34 of them, which is, again, that's unheard of, even if you don't know much about swimming.
11:40 You know, like think about your Olympic runners, it's like saying your best 200 meter runner
11:44 is your best marathon runner.
11:45 It doesn't happen in two totally different systems, but that's what we were seeing in
11:50 this person.
11:51 And so I'm scratching my head, talking to my coaches, who is this?
11:55 Again, no idea.
11:56 We continue to stay in the dark until an article came out disclosing that Leah Thomas is formerly
12:03 Will Thomas and swam three years on the men's team at University of Pennsylvania before
12:07 deciding to switch to the women's team.
12:12 Of course, we were shocked when we read this, and when I say we, I mean me and all of my
12:17 teammates, we were shocked when we read this.
12:21 But really upon reading it, it was like this overwhelming sense of relief, like, oh, dah,
12:28 that makes sense why this person is dominating.
12:31 It's a man.
12:34 And I thought that Dean Sibley would see it, how again I saw it at my teammates and my coaches,
12:38 and anyone with any amount of brain activity would probably comprehend this.
12:43 Nothing hateful about it.
12:44 Nothing even opinionated about it, given the fact that when competing against the men,
12:49 this was a man who was less than mediocre, less than average.
12:52 Okay.
12:53 It was terrible.
12:54 1554th in the nation the year prior and the same event when competing against the men.
12:59 So now not just number one, against women, I mean, dominating the entire country, the
13:04 entire country of girls, but lo and behold, the NCAA did not see it that way.
13:11 They saw absolutely nothing wrong with this.
13:14 And so about three weeks before our national championships in March of 2022, they announced
13:19 that Thomas's participation in the women's category was a non-negotiable, meaning there's
13:26 nothing that we could do.
13:27 There was no questions that we could ask or concerns that we could raise.
13:31 We were told we had to accept this with a smile on our face.
13:35 So that was really how I found out who this Leah Thomas, Will Thomas figure was and ultimately
13:43 how the NCAA responded leading up to that national championships in March of 2022?
13:49 Well, Riley, let's talk about the lead up because we could spend a lot of time elucidating
13:53 the differences between male and female bodies, male and female puberty and all that, but
13:57 essentially the only disadvantage that Leah Thomas had is he had a little bit more body
14:04 to him.
14:05 He had a little bit more flesh in certain parts of his body that may create a little bit more
14:08 drag, but he had a whole lot more going for him that made him a whole lot faster swimmer
14:13 in the pool.
14:14 So let's talk about the lead up to the 2022 Division One women's swimming and diving championships.
14:22 What are you and your teammates saying about this?
14:25 What are y'all feeling about this?
14:27 Because I know there had to be some confusion.
14:29 Did you think the NCAA was going to put him in a different locker room?
14:33 Like talk about kind of the run up because as everybody knows at this point, that knows
14:37 your story, will Thomas or Leah Thomas will call him by his given name or by his chosen
14:43 name was in the locker room with you all.
14:46 And this is a process where you're putting on your suits that takes quite a long time.
14:49 And this is a person that is, as you very politely call it, a fully intact male just
14:55 walking around swinging around the locker room.
14:57 And y'all are just supposed to not only think that this is okay, but cheer him along as he
15:01 does his little charade.
15:02 So let's talk about the run up before y'all ever even hopped in the pool for the championships.
15:07 Yeah.
15:08 Yeah, you mentioned feelings of confusion.
15:10 I think that's a good way to put it, to be honest.
15:14 Like I said, when we found out that this was the case, we lived in this state of bewilderment
15:21 for a while.
15:22 We found out who he was in about November of 2021.
15:24 So we had about three, four months before my team had to actually compete against him.
15:29 And so in these months leading up to this, admittedly, I'm kind of ashamed to admit it,
15:36 really.
15:37 But there were feelings of almost entrigment, curiosity, really.
15:42 We had all the questions.
15:43 The questions you mentioned, is he really as tall as Instagram pictures make him look,
15:48 will he be sharing our locker room?
15:50 Will he sandbag his races to make it look competitive, or will he blow everyone out of
15:54 the water?
15:55 I mean, it was feelings of entrigment.
15:58 I think that's the best way to put it.
16:00 We felt like we were living in this circus.
16:01 And so we kind of naively had a light heart joking.
16:05 We knew it was wrong.
16:06 Of course, we did.
16:07 We knew it was unfair.
16:08 There was never a question there.
16:10 But I don't think we saw the severity of it.
16:13 We didn't see the harm.
16:14 I don't think that's fair to say.
16:17 We saw the harm in it, but I don't think I understand to what extent the harm it would
16:22 cause until we got to that meet and saw firsthand all of our questions were answered.
16:27 I guess he was as tall as Instagram and I'm lucky, six foot four, he was towering over
16:32 every girl at that meet.
16:33 And yes, he got to, to undress in our locker room and it wasn't the same comical comedic
16:38 relief.
16:39 We made it seem to be leading up to it.
16:42 No, it was feelings of utter violation and betrayal is how it felt.
16:48 The unfair competition, again, it was blatantly obvious and it wasn't the the SNL skit we had
16:54 pictured in our head or the Babylon B headline or the the South Park episode that are objectively
17:00 meant to be funny.
17:02 It was real life and those feelings of, of, you know, curiosity, they switched to feelings
17:08 of heartbreak.
17:09 They switched to, I mean, I felt like really I'd been punched in the gut watching girls
17:15 and tears.
17:16 I mean, I saw girls crying.
17:19 I saw parents in the stands, moms watching their daughters, you know, be obliterated in
17:24 the sport that they once loved.
17:25 I saw the tears that they shed, girls who placed ninth and 17th and were supposed to
17:30 be named all Americans who were denied that.
17:33 I saw and felt the extreme discomfort in the locker and I heard the whispers because that's
17:38 what they were.
17:39 They were whispers of anger and frustration from those girls who just like myself had
17:44 worked our entire lives to get to this meet.
17:48 And that's why I say I was really, we were all ashamed for treating this light heart,
17:54 light heartedly.
17:55 Again, not because we knew or we thought at any point it was fair, but because it felt
18:01 like a mockery, it felt like this like I just, I mean, like I said, it felt like some sort
18:09 of someone was going to come out with a camera and be like, "Ha ha, you've been pranked."
18:12 But that part never happened.
18:15 So I guess that's kind of the general consensus of how we felt.
18:19 Well, and the thing about it, Riley, is the reason why Macho Man Randy Savage competing
18:24 against women in the South Park Skit is funny is because it's outrageous.
18:28 But there's something here that you touch on that I think is not talked about enough
18:32 because obviously if you have any type of a justice bend inside of your soul, which I
18:36 certainly do, the injustice of someone basically cheating to win, whether it's, you know, someone
18:41 taking steroids so they can hit more home runs in baseball or someone switching over to the
18:45 women's team so that they might actually win some medals and trophies in swimming.
18:49 It just feels terrible.
18:51 But the violation of what y'all had to endure in the locker room and to also be told, "Hey,
18:57 this is no big deal.
18:59 It's your feelings that are incorrect."
19:02 So it's this, it's an extreme form of gaslighting, Riley, that I don't believe is being talked
19:07 about nearly enough as it pertains to this entire subject matter, but you do eventually
19:11 get in the pool against this dude.
19:13 It's the 200 meter freestyle.
19:15 This is the final.
19:16 This is what you have literally trained your entire life for as a swimmer.
19:20 You hit the wall, you look up at the screen and you have, what was it, a five by your name?
19:25 Yeah.
19:26 Right.
19:27 So you got a five by your name, but so does Leah.
19:30 You've got fives by your name.
19:31 It's a miracle because again, when you were talking about him leading by body links in
19:35 his, these races, that doesn't happen in swimming.
19:37 Like we're talking about tens of seconds, hundreds of seconds that separate the first
19:41 from the last, right?
19:43 But y'all are tied, which is a miracle in and of itself.
19:46 So take us through that feeling of not only how pathetic this dude is that he ties you
19:51 even though he should have obliterated you just by being genetically superior, but then
19:56 take us through the situation that happened when there's two of you and they only have
20:00 one fifth place trophy.
20:01 Yeah.
20:02 Now, to your point, well, the first day of competition was the 500 freestyle and he blew
20:08 everyone out of the water.
20:09 I mean, right.
20:11 Olympians.
20:12 These are American record holders.
20:13 Keep in mind they're not scrubs.
20:15 They're the most impressive and accomplished female swimmers this world has ever seen.
20:19 And again, he beat them by body links, ultimately making him the first man to win a division
20:25 one in steel blade women's title trailblazer.
20:29 But the second day is the day you're referring to when we raced in the 200 free got on the
20:34 block, dove off, swam, eight laps of freestyle, touched the wall at the end.
20:38 I look up at the scoreboard and almost impossibly enough, we had tied, uh, yeah, indicating we
20:45 went the exact same time down to the hundredth of a second.
20:49 But despite tying, uh, which yeah, it's kind of embarrassing a six foot four man couldn't
20:55 even beat me.
20:56 All of me at five foot five, five foot six, granted, I don't think he was trying at all,
21:01 but nonetheless, um, and I think it's divine intervention as well, uh, as someone who is
21:07 deeply rooted in my faith, uh, my faith is, is central in all that idea before I want
21:13 to speak to objective truth.
21:14 Uh, I want to live a Christ like life and speak to, to biblical truth, um, but tying down
21:20 to the hundredth of the, of the second, um, you can't tell me that's not God, but we
21:26 go behind the awards podium where this official looks at both Thomas and myself, Thomas towering
21:30 over me.
21:31 And he says, great job.
21:32 You too.
21:33 Uh, congratulations.
21:34 What a great race, but you guys tied.
21:37 And we only have one trophy.
21:38 So we're going to give the trophy to Leah.
21:40 Sorry, Riley, you don't get one, uh, I was immediately taken aback, right?
21:46 My, my heart rate was high.
21:48 Having just competed in my adrenaline was still pumping.
21:50 And so the first thing that I thought ended up being the first thing that I said, and
21:54 the first thought that I had was, what do you mean this, this trophy and the women's
22:00 200 free is going to, to the man?
22:03 Isn't this everything that title nine was passed to prevent from happening?
22:09 Uh, to which he wasn't prepared to answer this, uh, the dreaded question of why the question
22:16 no one dared ask all season, uh, they didn't give him a script of what to say when someone
22:21 asked why. And so he, uh, actually appreciate his honesty after a couple of different excuses,
22:28 realizing, uh, that he was backed into a corner.
22:32 He said, and he said this with a sad face, uh, his voice changed.
22:36 I could tell he didn't even believe what he was about to say, but he said, Riley, I'm
22:40 so sorry, but we have been advised as an organization that when photos are being taken, it's crucial
22:46 that the trophies in Leah's hands.
22:48 Again, you can pose with this one, uh, but you have to give your trophy back.
22:53 Leah takes the trophy home.
22:55 You go home empty handed in of story.
22:58 And that was the moment when that was the moment when, uh, I realized, uh, what a farce
23:08 we were participating in myself included.
23:10 I felt guilty.
23:11 I felt compelled.
23:12 I felt responsible.
23:13 Uh, I realized in that moment, if, if you aren't willing to condemn something, you're
23:18 condoning it.
23:19 I was just as bad as the people who created and enforce those policies.
23:24 I remember distinctly, I really do like vividly, I up until this point, I just kind of naively
23:31 waited for someone else to say something because I didn't really think it was my job
23:35 to.
23:36 I thought my job was to show up and swim.
23:38 I thought, you know, it's a coaches job to protect us.
23:41 It's, it's someone within the NCAA, someone with political power, someone's dad, quite
23:45 honestly, should come down there and yank this man out of our locker rooms.
23:48 I didn't think it was up to me, but I remember this realization slapping me across the face
23:54 and it was like, Oh my gosh, how in the world could I expect someone to stand up for me?
24:03 If I wasn't even willing to stand up for me, this has to come from us as women, as female
24:08 athletes, and it was, it was then when I decided that I could no longer look at myself in the
24:15 mirror, you know, knowing I have a younger sister, I, I, it was then I decided I couldn't
24:21 be silent.
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26:17 So I appreciate you taking us through all that detail because there has been a critique
26:21 of you and others, which is like, okay, so you wait until your collegiate career is over
26:26 to say something, but then you participate it with the farce while it was happening.
26:30 And I'm typically a pretty black and white person in terms of my thinking, but it's like,
26:35 you weren't given a whole lot of time to process what was happening, right?
26:39 Because again, you even admitted you thought that somebody was going to come out and be
26:42 like, we're punking y'all, this isn't really going to happen, we're not going to let this
26:45 enormous fool get into this pool and make a mockery of this entire proceeding.
26:50 But that's what happened.
26:51 And you've been very open about talking about wishing you would have spoken up sooner, but
26:56 just not really going that route.
26:58 So you decide after the race that you're not going to be silent, you're not going to be
27:01 muzzled by the University of Kentucky or by the SEC or any other governing body over
27:06 the race that you did.
27:08 And then you kind of thrust yourself into this cultural conversation about women's rights,
27:14 girls' rights, Title IX, sports, transgenderism and all these types of things.
27:19 So just talk about that, talk about the decision to like, no, I'm not going to be muzzled,
27:23 but then kind of how that changed the trajectory of your life.
27:27 Yeah, of course.
27:29 And I think muzzled is a good word.
27:31 And I think it's something people don't realize the pressure that we were under to stay quiet.
27:40 It's effective, believe it or not, it works.
27:43 That's why there's been so few of us, people in my same position who have taken a stand.
27:49 Because again, it's efficient what they're doing.
27:53 We had to go to training.
27:54 We had to go to sensitivity training to learn how to use she, her pronouns.
27:59 If we didn't adhere, if we didn't complete the training to their standard, we had to
28:04 re-go through the training until we did.
28:07 We were told you'll never get a job if you speak out.
28:10 You'll never get into grad school.
28:13 Your employer is going to look you up and see that you're a transphobe and you don't
28:16 want that, do you?
28:17 You're going to lose all your friends.
28:19 You'll lose your scholarship and you're playing time and oh yeah, Riley speaking of that scholarship.
28:24 Remember you sign that and when you sign that, you gave away your rights to speak in your
28:28 own personal capacity.
28:30 Remember whose name is across your chest, across your cap, because it's not yours.
28:34 It's ours and understand we have already taken your stance for you.
28:39 Universities went as far as to tell their athletes that they would be equivalent to being murderers
28:44 if they spoke up about this.
28:46 We would have blood on our hands if we spoke up and there were any sort of physical or
28:52 emotional or self-inflicted for that matter, trauma to Thomas or someone like Thomas.
28:59 We were the ultimate oppressors.
29:01 It's insane looking back all the different tactics, going to re-education training, counseling
29:09 resources provided through the LGBTQ education center to make us feel comfortable seeing
29:14 male genitalia.
29:15 That's what they said.
29:16 They said we needed to be re-educated into learning how to be okay with this.
29:22 Again, I don't know if a lot of people realize yes, we see the problem in the unfair competition,
29:28 but this truly, really and truly has become, it's transcended beyond the subject matter,
29:33 the premise of the debate and it really has become an infringement on our first amendment
29:38 rights and freedom of thought and freedom of expression and of course, freedom of speech,
29:43 especially on college campuses within the academic realm.
29:48 Finally, I decided, like I said, I could no longer go along with this.
29:59 My first action, I actually called my athletic director.
30:03 He's been the AD at Kentucky for 20 plus years.
30:06 He's very well respected, very high up in terms of athletic directors, NCAA governing
30:13 board members.
30:15 He's amazing.
30:16 We had a great relationship and I called him and I said, "Hey Mitch, Mitch Barnhart is
30:19 his name."
30:20 I said, "Hey Mitch, this is what has happened and this is how we feel.
30:25 How do you feel if I take a public stand and acknowledging that this is wrong?"
30:28 And I'll never forget what he said.
30:30 I was expecting him to, actually I don't really know what I was expecting, but I, you know,
30:37 his response back was, "Riley, I love you.
30:40 Speak your heart.
30:41 Speak your convictions and don't worry about painting this university in a bad light because
30:45 we're behind you."
30:47 And I don't think he knew how badly I needed to hear that.
30:50 So that was huge.
30:52 It was instrumental in me feeling confident enough and secure enough to speak out because
30:57 I didn't want to paint my university in a bad light.
30:59 I loved my university.
31:00 I really did.
31:01 I loved my time there.
31:02 I loved my team and my coaches, all of which you were very supportive.
31:05 A lot of the trainings and re-education stuff came from the, again, the athletic, I mean,
31:10 the academic side of our university.
31:14 And so I had, I think we can all agree swimming is not a sport that garners a lot of media
31:20 attention, but this meat was different because there was left-leaning, right-leaning reporters,
31:26 everything in between who were desperately reaching out.
31:29 They would find your social media or your email or whatever it is and they would send
31:33 you a message, especially after I tied him, hoping to get a quote or a story they could
31:39 take back to their publisher.
31:41 And so I, my inbox was filled and I ultimately picked a girl from the Daily Wire and I decided
31:47 to tell her everything.
31:49 I told her about the locker room.
31:50 I told her about the trophy.
31:51 I told her about the unfair competition, all of it.
31:54 And the story blew up, I think, for a couple of reasons.
31:58 One of which being sports is something that resonates with everyone.
32:02 Sports aren't meant to be political or divisive in their true nature.
32:06 And because it's not boring, like the economy or the environment, everyone loves sports.
32:12 So that was, was the first step and from then it's just been a whirlwind every day since.
32:19 Well, I remember, I think it was Mary Market, Oolahan that did that initial coverage for
32:24 the Daily Wire.
32:25 And I remember seeing that and just being like, this, this isn't possible.
32:28 But anymore, it's like with Obergefeld in 2015, everyone's like, oh, the world changed with
32:34 COVID in 2020.
32:35 No.
32:36 And the, you know, legalization of gay marriage, that changed the country and the, the social
32:40 fabric for everything moving forward.
32:42 But it's interesting because you bring up how most of this was coming from the academic
32:46 side, not the athletic side.
32:47 That makes perfect sense, Riley, because most of the people in the academic side have never
32:50 competed.
32:51 They've never worked so hard for something like the hardest thing that they've worked
32:54 for is a damn spelling bee or something like that.
32:57 And it's not even that level of competition.
32:58 And so they've never tried so hard because here's the thing, winners and losers have
33:03 the same goals.
33:04 That's what people in the academic side don't understand is you can train just as hard if
33:08 not harder.
33:09 And you don't get to stand on top of the podium just because you put in the effort.
33:13 There are differences in people.
33:14 There's differences in giftings and there's differences and abilities to work even harder
33:18 to achieve a goal.
33:20 So that's not the least bit surprising.
33:21 But here you are.
33:22 You've graduated.
33:23 You got your degree.
33:24 You're supposed to be going off to dental school or something like, you know, making something
33:27 of yourself.
33:28 And all of a sudden you're a women's rights, girls' rights advocate.
33:32 And so let's go through what a day in life of Riley gains the women's rights, girls'
33:37 rights, you know, title nine advocate is because you're going to speak on these college campuses,
33:42 which a bunch with a bunch of people that don't want you there.
33:44 They think your presence is violence.
33:47 You've experienced actual real world physical violence because of that, you know, obviously
33:51 every day you're called to transfer for pointing out things that are, you know, blatantly obvious
33:55 to anybody with a functioning prefrontal cortex.
33:58 So just take us through a day in the life, Riley.
34:01 So gosh, there's lots of different hats and stuff that I find myself wearing now.
34:10 As you said, when school colleges, we've already discussed how a lot of this moral rot that
34:19 we are facing and experiencing and seeing firsthand the effects of in our nation is stemming
34:26 from academia, especially on college campuses.
34:30 That was made very clear, I think with everything that went on in the Middle East, we all got
34:36 to see the effects of really it's kind of like this Frankenstein scenario where these
34:42 liberal progressive institutions have created these monsters and it was the same monsters
34:48 that these schools created that would ultimately be the school's demise.
34:54 So that was made very clear, I would say last semester or so.
34:57 But nonetheless, this is the, this is who needs to hear the message.
35:03 So when school is in session, I find myself putting myself in the belly of the beast traveling
35:12 to different universities, stemming from, I mean, the most liberal of liberal Harvard,
35:19 Princeton, Cal Berkeley, but a large range, lots of Christian Catholic institutions as
35:25 well, St. Mary's, Truett McConnell, which is a Christian school in Georgia and like I
35:30 said, everything in between.
35:33 And yeah, what I have found in doing that, I have been called every name.
35:37 You could possibly imagine, right, transphobic, homophobic, racist, white supremacist, domestic
35:43 terrorist, a fascist, a Nazi, the list goes on.
35:47 I have been spit on, I have had drinks poured on me, glass bottles thrown at me.
35:53 One instance in San Francisco, which you alluded to, I was physically, I mean, I was attacked,
35:59 I was ambushed by these, these protesters, hundreds of them upon delivering my message
36:05 in a classroom setting, right, podium at the front, lots of seats and chairs, students
36:12 and community members who were there, protesters, they, they rush into the back, they turn off
36:18 the lights, they rush to the front, storm me at the podium.
36:22 That's when I'm being pushed and I'm shoved and I'm, I'm punched in the face by these
36:26 men wearing dresses, which fortunately for me, their punches really don't hurt that bad.
36:32 Yeah, they're, they're a little limpy in their wrist area, like that's all you got.
36:37 Yeah.
36:38 But they ended up holding me for ransom for, I mean, for hours for five hours demanding
36:44 that if I wanted to make it home to see my family safely again, I had to pay them money.
36:49 You might be wondering, okay, well, where are the police, call, this is San Francisco,
36:55 the police were being held for ransom with me.
36:58 I'm looking at the officers.
36:59 We're taking pretty sure we're being held against our will, pretty sure we call that
37:02 kidnapping.
37:03 You have a gun, I'm not saying you don't want to do something.
37:07 But don't you guys, yeah, to which they said, no, we can't, we're not allowed to do anything
37:13 because we're not allowed to be seen as anything other than, than an ally to this community
37:18 or else we'll lose our jobs.
37:20 So, no, we can't do anything.
37:23 All the while, the Dean of Students, again, this is the middle of the night.
37:26 It's like midnight.
37:27 Okay.
37:28 The Dean of Students shows up, starts negotiating with the students, how much I owe each of
37:31 them to be able to leave, which the price they agreed upon was $10 each, which makes
37:37 me mad because I think I'm worth more than $10.
37:39 Of course, come on.
37:42 I know.
37:43 I'm like at least 20.
37:45 Come on.
37:46 Yeah.
37:47 Don't tilt me like that.
37:48 But anyways, that's, that's the scenarios that I find myself in.
37:54 I do a lot of, of course, advocating at the state level, the federal level within local
38:03 governments.
38:04 So lots of testifying, lots of time spent on the legislative side, helping draft these
38:11 bills, helping teach legislators how to talk about these bills, how to frame the mess
38:17 aging here, to be effective and to, to persuade others onto our side.
38:23 Because like I said, this, this, it's become, I mean, part of part is an entirely almost,
38:31 which is, is heartbreaking that the protection, sex based protections and rights, uh, there's
38:38 a whole party of our, of our political system, of our government, um, who has deemed that
38:43 women are worthy of sex based protections.
38:46 They're not worthy of, of privacy.
38:48 We're not worthy of safety in our sports or, or maintaining our dignity.
38:52 No, our sole purpose is to, of, of existing is to validate the feelings and the identity
38:58 of a man.
38:59 And it's ironic because these are, this is the same party that claims to be champions
39:04 for women, that claims to be these social justice warriors and, and they fight for women's
39:08 rights.
39:09 Let's be very clear.
39:11 Uh, these same people who have historically called themselves or been labeled as feminist
39:16 are the same people who are dismantling, uh, women's rights, uh, under the guise of, of
39:23 progress.
39:24 Weirdly enough, indicating we are moving in the positive forward direction, uh, but this
39:30 is not progress.
39:31 This is taking us back in time.
39:33 This is deeply regressive, uh, at least half a century.
39:37 I don't know, I was enacted in 1972, uh, so at least half a century, testified before
39:42 the US house, the US Senate many times, that kind of thing, uh, so it's a lot.
39:46 There's a lot of, of, of roles that I've undertaken, but I do it with a smile on my face.
39:53 Well, the, the thing about what you're saying that's so interesting is the party that claims
39:59 or lays claim to first, second, third and fourth wave feminism is the same party that's
40:03 advocating for these things that's so deleterious to women and girls.
40:06 And that's the thing, like, you know, people were giving, you know, comedians like Dave
40:10 Chappelle so much crap when he's like, look guys, the, the L's, the G's and the T's.
40:15 They can't coexist like feminism and transgenderism and these ideologies.
40:19 They can't coexist.
40:20 And which is one of those things is when you don't have a higher authority that you can
40:24 appeal to, right?
40:26 If you don't have a higher book that tells you that this is moral and this is not, it
40:30 becomes problematic because you realize that you have your feet planted firmly in mid-air
40:34 when you're trying to espouse your philosophy.
40:37 So I do want to talk a little bit more about that because, you know, even when you're,
40:40 you know, interviewing with Ben Shapiro or Jordan Peterson or, you know, Joe Rogan, I
40:43 don't know if you've done Peterson yet.
40:46 But like whenever you, you interview with these people, you can, you talk about Christianity
40:50 kind of around the edges a little bit, which I love and I appreciate.
40:52 So I want to give you a little bit more runway to talk about that because you're not just
40:57 talking about this because justice, right?
40:59 Because you can define justice, however you want, and maybe it's social justice and maybe
41:02 it's, you know, feminist justice or something like that, but your sense of justice comes
41:07 from a Christian ethic that is informed by your Christian faith and your faith that you
41:11 have been put in Christ.
41:13 So talk to me a little bit about, you know, how you specifically became a Christian, but
41:17 then how your Christian faith is helping you do the stuff you're doing, which right now,
41:21 which is by no means fun to do.
41:24 No.
41:25 And you don't know how much I appreciate this question because on the likes of Jordan Peterson
41:30 and Joe Rogan, obviously very, very smart people, very analytical, very logical.
41:37 These aren't people who are deeply rooted in faith, which is not the case for me.
41:43 I am deeply rooted in my faith.
41:45 I think that's the reason why we are where we are as a society is because we have, have
41:50 turned into a godless society that that's very clear to me.
41:55 Who spends time in the word and in scripture and has a, what I would like to think, a relatively
42:01 good understanding of what it means when you take God out of a society.
42:05 We've seen it in China.
42:06 We've seen it in Russia and Brazil and Venezuela and Cuba and the Czech Republic and in North
42:10 Korea, different places.
42:12 And you look at those societies now.
42:15 It's very clear what happens when you remove religion, specifically God, but, but those
42:22 platforms with, I mean, incredible audiences.
42:24 I think Joe Rogan has 200 million, something subscribers.
42:29 There wasn't a fantastic segue into speaking to this.
42:35 I made sure to make a point of it and it definitely got his wheels turning.
42:40 He's like, you know what, maybe the Bible, maybe it's not this, this big book made a
42:44 fictional story.
42:45 You know, maybe there is some truth to it because a lot of it is, you know, we're seeing it
42:50 in real time.
42:51 So it was cool to be able to see his wheels turning.
42:53 But yes, all of that to say to your point, it is, if you can understand, let's think
43:01 about Scripture, right?
43:02 And Paul, Paul warns us, he tells us in Acts and Romans in different places, he tells us
43:07 that we will reach a point where dark is seen as light and bitter is seen as sweet and evil
43:13 is seen as moral.
43:15 How can you deny that that's not where we're at right now where our yeses, our nose and
43:20 our ups are downs?
43:23 And look, that's not me saying that I think people who identify as trans or evil.
43:26 No, I don't think that, but deception is evil and manipulation is evil and lying and affirming
43:34 delusions.
43:36 That's evil and who's the father of lies who moves through deception and in darkness, Satan
43:41 does.
43:43 So it's very clear to me as a Christian that that's what this is.
43:49 You mentioned when I found Christ, when I became a Christian.
43:53 I'm so lucky to have a family, two parents who love each other very much who, I mean,
43:59 we went to church, me and my many siblings every Sunday morning, every Sunday night,
44:05 every Wednesday night, which, you know, when you're 10, 11, 12 years old is not what you
44:10 want to be doing, especially when you're the youngest one in the congregation by probably
44:14 70 plus years, bar my siblings, my younger siblings.
44:19 And so the amount of little like visitor cards in the back of the pews that we would play
44:24 hangman on or tic-tac-toe or connect the dots or, I mean, it's ungodly, but I am so fortunate
44:32 for that foundation, which certainly I think prepared me in a sense for the stand that
44:40 I've taken.
44:41 So, even having that foundation, I have been spiritually awakened these past two years.
44:49 Like I said, it's just very clear to me to see how God works, how he moves, how he provides
44:57 me with strength and wisdom and discernment and protection and guidance and direction and
45:00 all those things, things I pray for daily, he provides those things.
45:03 He has his hand on it.
45:04 There's no doubt about that.
45:05 But again, just as clearly you see how Satan is working and how he is moving.
45:13 And again, once you see it, it's very hard to unsee.
45:17 But that's kind of my perspective on it.
45:20 As I said, we're speaking to objective truth, the most basic of truth that that man and
45:24 woman, biological reality.
45:29 But more importantly, it's very clear when God says he lays it out, he created male and
45:34 female intentionally and uniquely in his perfect image and to alter that or to feel as if you
45:42 can alter that.
45:45 That's you playing God.
45:46 And we know how it turns out when anyone believes that they can play God, it's not pretty.
45:53 It doesn't go well and, you know, we're not fighting against flesh and blood.
45:57 We're fighting against principalities and powers and everything that God creates Satan
46:00 counterfeits.
46:01 So you think about how the rainbow was a symbol that God was promising never to flood the
46:05 earth again.
46:06 And the rainbow has seven colors in it, Roy G Biff, seven colors.
46:10 Well, how many stripes does the fly?
46:12 The pride flag have it has six, right?
46:14 So it looks like the rainbow at a passing glance, but it's not.
46:18 It's a counterfeit.
46:19 And this interview is being released during pride month and it's an entire month of celebrating
46:24 sin and depravity and debauchery and we're not just supposed to be tolerant of it.
46:29 We're not just supposed to accept it.
46:31 We must clap.
46:32 We must clap.
46:33 I mean, we must say that's beautiful, right?
46:36 It's so unique you say this because in Hebrew, I've been trying to spend a lot of my time
46:39 understanding, at least from a, you know, there's lots of symbols and almost hidden messages
46:47 in the Bible, right?
46:48 Numbers were big in Hebrew, what they meant.
46:51 And even hearing you say that in Hebrew, the number seven, it means complete.
46:55 That means wholeness, but the number six is incomplete.
47:01 And I think it's no coincidence that the pride flag has six stripes and the American flag
47:06 has seven.
47:07 It means it is done.
47:08 It's complete, but that is not what the number six means.
47:12 Quite the contrary.
47:13 So interesting.
47:14 Well, it's interesting as well.
47:15 And I remember someone talking about it recently and it was like, you know, it's described
47:18 to different places in the Bible that, you know, being in the presence of God, like you're
47:21 in the presence of the rainbow and it's like, so what does Satan do here on earth?
47:25 Which is, you know, technically where he rules, even though Jesus rules and reigns, we don't
47:29 have to get into a big long theological debate.
47:31 He's surrounding himself by his own version of the rainbow, right?
47:34 By his own worshipers, by people that are flying his flag and saying that this is where
47:39 I'm putting my stake in the ground, because the thing is, Riley, and you know this, if
47:42 you can convince people, one, that a man can become a woman or vice versa, you can convince
47:48 them of anything, but even if you can't convince them that that's true, but you can convince
47:52 them to pretend that it is, it's almost more nefarious.
47:55 That's why I don't play this pronoun hospitality game that a lot of Christians do where they're
47:59 like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, for the sake of the gospel, just call them by the name,
48:04 use their preferred pronouns because the gospel is more important.
48:07 You don't want to shut things down.
48:08 It's like, wait a minute, I'll call you by whatever name, Riley, if you decide you want
48:11 to be called Ryan from here on out great, I'll call you Ryan Gaines.
48:14 But if you say you are to use masculine pronouns, when referring to me, I will say Ryan, that's
48:19 where I have to draw the line because I'm not going to allow you to force me to lie via
48:24 my speech.
48:25 It's just not going to happen that way.
48:27 That's how nefarious and that's how deep the rot of this entire movement goes.
48:32 No, 110%.
48:35 It's something I hear all the time.
48:37 People say, well, be compassionate, be kind.
48:40 Don't you want to be inclusive?
48:42 Which in their true essence and their true meanings, it's wonderful to be compassionate.
48:48 It's wonderful to be empathetic and to be inclusive where exclusion isn't prioritized.
48:56 Again, to be utterly clear here, it is not compassionate to ask a young girl to address
49:04 in front of a man.
49:05 That's not what compassion is and it's not inclusive to ask us to smile and step aside
49:10 and allow these men onto our podiums.
49:12 That's not what inclusion is.
49:13 No, that's exclusion and it's exclusive to the very female athletes or women who title
49:19 nine or the women's sporting category was created to uphold and celebrate.
49:26 I struggled with this at first.
49:30 I really did.
49:32 I would have people who say, you say you're a Christian, that's not how Christ would respond.
49:39 It really was like this internal dilemma with me.
49:44 Do I use the pronouns?
49:46 Do I be respectful?
49:48 That's not what respect is.
49:49 Again, like you said, it's furthering a lie and that lie is not beneficial to anyone.
49:55 It's not beneficial to me, to you, to society at large.
50:00 It's not beneficial to Thomas even and what a terrible message to send to someone.
50:04 We hear the words gender affirming care, gender affirmation all the time, which sounds positive.
50:11 It sounds like a positive thing, but think about it.
50:15 The premise of gender affirming care is that you're telling someone they are correct to
50:21 believe that they were born in the wrong body.
50:24 What a terrible message to send to anyone.
50:26 We should be telling people that they're perfect just the way that they were created
50:31 in his image.
50:33 That's what we should be telling people.
50:34 I find myself, even still, of course, I do believe there's value in having grace and
50:40 showing and displaying grace.
50:42 That's what Christ did so well.
50:43 I think of many accounts in the Bible, right?
50:45 In John where there's a woman, she's an adulterer, they caught her.
50:53 It was actually law that she was punished and stoned.
50:57 Jesus.
50:58 Well, those who don't send cast the first stone to which they were all kind of dumbfounded,
51:06 like, okay, we're all sinners and they all left.
51:09 That was his perfect display of grace, right?
51:12 But then he approaches the woman and he says, no, go and send no more.
51:17 Leave your life of sin behind you.
51:19 That's him landing with the truth and I think a model that all of us, including myself,
51:26 should be able to implement more of in our daily lives.
51:30 Yeah.
51:31 Jesus was not 50% grace, 50% truth.
51:33 He was 100% grace, 100% truth.
51:35 He was always the Lamb of God and always the Lion of Judah and the thing about it is his
51:39 tolerance of sin is not a biblical virtue.
51:42 So when people say, well, Jesus wouldn't act the way it's like, well, how would you know?
51:46 Like from your deep level of understanding, have you ever even read an entire gospel all
51:50 the way through?
51:51 Can you even locate it inside of the canon of the Bible?
51:54 So it's like, I don't know that I'm going to take your exegesis of this worldview that
51:59 you don't even subscribe to and then apply it back on to me.
52:03 But let's talk about what's happening in the actual nitty gritty day to day.
52:08 Let's talk about a father that's got young girls, you know, you know, that are living
52:12 in his household that are competing in sports and they live in an area where a biological
52:17 male is allowed to compete in that sport.
52:20 What is the father to do?
52:22 What are the coaches to do, what are the girls to do?
52:24 Because you've seen, I forget where it was, but there was like a shot put competition
52:28 and all the girls protested the competition, they ended up getting in trouble for it.
52:32 It was because they were going to be throwing against another male, but there are other
52:37 times where the odds of you getting hurt by another competitor and shot put are essentially
52:40 zero, but in basketball, in field hockey, in soccer, in softball, you may have an actual
52:48 physical run in with a biological male and you will open yourself to potential injury.
52:55 So I got a lot of sheepdogs in my world, Riley, like if there's a guy in a girls locker room
52:59 and any of us find out about it, we will be on the news in orange jumpsuits.
53:03 That's just how it's going to be, but not everybody's wired like that.
53:06 But from your perspective, from what you've seen work and not work, what should fathers,
53:10 what should families coaches, what should we do about this?
53:14 We have seen, well, there's a lot of fingers to point, right?
53:18 We could point a finger at the NCAA, we could point a finger at the Biden administration,
53:21 we could point fingers at specific universities, but I believe there's a finger that needs
53:27 to be pointed back at parents.
53:30 Parents who have allowed this, who again have stayed silent, parents who work in corporate
53:35 America, and they don't want to speak up because they don't want to lose their jobs.
53:39 I understand the risk, I understand the threats, but if this is not a hill you are willing
53:44 to die on, defending your own children, defending your daughters, if this is not a hill that
53:50 you are willing to die on, then what in the world is, do I have to care more about your
53:55 kids than you do?
53:57 What a sad, sad reality.
53:59 And speaking to the case in West Virginia, it is a tragic day when 13, 14 year old girls
54:06 have to be the adults in the room because every other adult felled them entirely.
54:10 Why do they have to bear the burden of what they did so bravely, actually, which I, like
54:20 I said, I've changed my mind on this.
54:22 I didn't think when I was competing and even after that, I didn't think that women should
54:25 have to concede or to step aside to not go when the gun goes.
54:31 I thought, you know, we shouldn't have to make that compromise.
54:34 We're the ones who've worked hard, but then I realized if we waited for people to do the
54:39 right thing unprovoked, we would be waiting for forever.
54:43 We do have to take that action.
54:45 I believe it happened in the way that it did where I did compete.
54:48 You know, I think that was certainly God's plan and his timing and it allowed the conversation
54:53 to spark in the way that it has, but I will say if I had to compete against a guy again,
54:57 if I was still swimming or competing, no way would I run the race, would I get in the pool?
55:04 There's no way I would.
55:07 And we've seen that be effective.
55:08 And so all of this back to parents, what can parents do?
55:12 One lead by example, teach your kids how to be independent thinkers, teach them how to
55:16 call out an injustice when they see it, defend your daughters.
55:22 That being said, right, so much of this movement is centered around girls and women and we
55:27 ask ourselves, where are the feminists, which again, don't even get me started on that question.
55:31 But I think just as often as we ask the question of where are the feminists, we should be asking
55:35 the questions of where, where are the dads, right?
55:41 I think there's, well, there's a saying it's proven itself to be true and it's hard times
55:45 create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, weak men
55:48 create hard times.
55:49 And of course, it's a cycle that repeats itself.
55:51 You can see it play out, not just here in Western civilization, but the rise and fall
55:55 of any civilization.
55:58 There's no doubt in my mind, which part of the process we're in now where weak men have
56:02 created hard times, I watched a video this morning of a guy, he was, I don't know what
56:08 his position was, but he was out in Washington.
56:10 Of course, Pride Month is approaching.
56:13 It is Pride Month by the time this interview airs.
56:17 And there was a big rainbow mural or walkway in the street, a pedestrian, I guess, walkway
56:24 in the middle of the street.
56:25 And there was a car that went over it and did a burnout, left tire marks on it.
56:29 And there's a man speaking at some sort of press conference, a grown man, balling interiors
56:37 crying over this.
56:38 And I'm watching this and I'm like, what a perfect, what a perfect display of why we
56:43 are a nation in decline.
56:44 This is a man, a grown man, crying over sidewalk chalk, like what in the world?
56:49 So it's very clear where we are in the process now.
56:51 I think the last time we had a society full of strong men was in the 1940s during World
56:56 War II, the self-proclaimed greatest generation, but you think about it.
57:00 These were men who were willing to and actively lying about their age, saying they were older
57:05 than what they really were so they couldn't list and fight for this country.
57:08 And now, what, 80-ish years later, you have men actively lying about their sex so they
57:14 can get into women's sports or women's prisons or women's locker rooms or women's sororities
57:18 or dorm rooms or what have you.
57:20 It's a telltale sign of where we are now.
57:22 All of that to say, defend your kids, defend your daughters, teach your sons how to be
57:29 strong men, men who are willing to fulfill their biblical role of protecting and providing.
57:34 Well, when a vacuum is created by cowards, somebody's got to fill the gap and I hate
57:38 that it's adolescent gals.
57:40 Now I'm long on questions, but we're short on time.
57:42 So we'll kind of combine a lot of this here at the end.
57:44 You shouldn't be doing what you're doing right now because you're supposed to be in dental
57:46 school.
57:47 You're supposed to be minding your own business.
57:48 You're a newlywed.
57:49 You could be doing Riley, but here you are, you're suing the NCAA, you've got a book
57:53 out now, guys.
57:54 It's in the show notes.
57:55 You can check it out there.
57:56 It is out now swimming against the current.
57:58 But what's next for you?
57:59 Like how much longer are you going to be going to these red states, taking pictures with
58:03 my governor, Kevin Stidt and other people's governors and doing your thing?
58:07 Is this what you're going to do now?
58:08 Are you just going to be going to, you know, conservative conferences and talking in all
58:12 these places like, or at some point is this all going to chill out?
58:15 I hope not, I can only, I guess, go on Fox News and speak to the old white men watching
58:21 Fox News so many times, Kyle.
58:24 Yeah.
58:25 I will say you do have a great governor down in Oklahoma, Oklahoma just this past week
58:32 recently.
58:34 They just got through a bill, Governor Stitt signed an executive order.
58:38 He was the first governor in the nation to sign an executive order on a bill that defined
58:42 the word woman, I can't even believe that's necessary.
58:46 So dumb, but yeah.
58:47 But he did.
58:48 And so they just got that through the legislative body, which is fantastic.
58:51 So great things going on in Oklahoma.
58:53 But I hope not.
58:54 This is not what I want to do.
58:56 This is never what I wanted to do.
58:58 You have to be clinically insane if you want to be working or involved in the political
59:03 sphere at any level.
59:06 You have to be clinically insane, diagnosed with some sort of mental disorder, because
59:13 it's a lot.
59:14 It is corrupt.
59:15 It is corrupt on all sides.
59:16 And I've seen that there's so much manipulation.
59:19 There are so many strings being pulled and it's heartbreaking to see, it's demoralizing
59:25 to see, especially as a young person who truly believes that we live in the, I know that
59:32 we live in the greatest country on this planet.
59:35 To see our leaders be so theatrical, to see them vying for that sound bite that they can
59:43 post on their social media.
59:44 It's really sad.
59:45 So no, it's not a position that I want to be in.
59:48 Hopefully the issue is solved.
59:51 I'm not overly hopeful that it will be anytime soon.
59:55 But in the meantime, I'm fighting the fight.
59:57 I'm here.
59:58 I am, like I said, with a light heart and a smile on my face, doing my best to turn lemons
1:00:04 into lemonade.
1:00:07 Well, I'm going to pray for your endurance.
1:00:09 And there's more that we can say, but we could probably leave it there.
1:00:12 But that's all for me.
1:00:13 Is there anything else you want to get off your chest?
1:00:14 No, it's just very grateful, very grateful for you, the platform that you have been able
1:00:20 to build and develop the audience that you have.
1:00:24 It's really amazing.
1:00:25 So I'm just grateful.
1:00:27 I'm hoping that hopefully this was insightful and in some way encouraging to people who
1:00:37 maybe thought to themselves or think they're apolitical or someone who thinks, "Oh, you
1:00:42 know, I live in Oklahoma.
1:00:43 This will never happen here.
1:00:45 Nobody is immune to evil."
1:00:48 And that's what we're up against is evil.
1:00:51 So just grateful for you and your display of Christ speaking to Christ and his goodness,
1:00:58 his righteousness, his justness.
1:01:02 I don't know if justness is a word.
1:01:04 It works.
1:01:05 It works, doesn't it?
1:01:06 I'm not overly, you know, I pray for wisdom, but sometimes I'm like, "What am I even saying
1:01:10 at the time?"
1:01:13 But nonetheless, very grateful for you.
1:01:14 Well, hey, I'm glad you're in this fight.
1:01:16 I'm glad to be in the fight with you, Riley.
1:01:17 We'll talk again soon.
1:01:18 Let's do it, Kyle.
1:01:20 Thank you.
1:01:21 All right, guys.
1:01:22 I hope you enjoyed my time with Riley Gaines, but before we let you go, we are going to
1:01:24 do a quick resilience boost.
1:01:25 Adam Daunte's life or mission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
1:01:28 forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
1:01:31 So I've got a couple links for you today.
1:01:32 I've got a link to Riley's website so you can check out everything that she's doing
1:01:35 there.
1:01:36 And then I've got an Amazon link to her newest book, which is out now her only book, actually.
1:01:39 It's called Swimming Against the Current, Fighting for Common Sense in a World That's
1:01:43 Lost Its Mind.
1:01:45 Thank you for listening to this podcast.
1:01:46 Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate, and leave us a positive five-star
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1:01:51 If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an
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1:01:57 Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else,
1:02:01 including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way.
1:02:04 Just go to www.undaunton.life.
1:02:06 And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for
1:02:10 our content.
1:02:11 The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self-titled debut album
1:02:15 on Face Down Records.
1:02:16 The links are in the description.
1:02:18 I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
1:02:20 Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
1:02:27 Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
1:02:48 in the future.
1:02:53 And as always, thanks for watching.
1:02:55 And as always, thanks for watching.
1:02:56 And as always, thanks for watching.
1:02:57 And as always, thanks for watching.
1:02:58 And as always, thanks for watching.
1:02:59 And as always, thanks for watching.
1:03:00 And as always, thanks for watching.
Key quotes
2
Riley Gaines
If you aren't willing to condemn something, you're condoning it.
Riley Gaines
What a sad, sad reality. And speaking to the case in West Virginia, it is a tragic day when 13, 14 year old girls have to be the adults in the room because every other adult failed them entirely.
Show notes & links

In this episode, we welcome Riley Gaines to the show. She is a 12x All-American and champion collegiate swimmer, a womens’/girls’ rights advocate, and America’s most sought-after voice in the fight to save female sports. She swam for the University of Kentucky where she won multiple titles and awards. At the 2022 NCAA Division 1 Women’s Swimming & Diving Championships, her life changed forever. She finished the final for the 200-meter freestyle championship, and when she looked up at the board, it showed that she had actually tied someone for 5th place. That someone? A University of Pennsylvania swimmer named Lia Thomas, formerly known as Will Thomas who had previously competed on the men’s team. After that, Riley spoke out against the fact that she had to compete against a biological male and how no other females should be subjected to that treatment. In this interview, we discuss what it was like growing up in a family of high-level athletes, when she and her team became aware of Lia Thomas, what it was like being forced to change in the same locker room as Thomas who freely displayed his male genitalia while present, what was going through her head when she saw that she had tied him in her championship race, the NCAA refusing to allow her to receive and be pictured with the trophy she earned, why she decided to speak out against men competing in women’s sports, the vitriol she experiences online and at speaking engagements for standing up for basic truths, how her Christian faith is sustaining her as she fights for the rights of women and girls, what parents can and should do to support their girls as they strive to participate in fair competitions, what’s next for her, and much more. Let’s get into it…

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