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1:18
This is Undaunted Life, a Man's Podcast.
1:22
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
1:23
Let's get into it.
1:24
All right, guys.
1:25
You got a special guest on the podcast today.
1:27
Her name is Riley Gaines.
1:29
She's a 12-time All-American and champion collegiate swimmer.
1:32
She's a women's and girls rights advocate and America's most sought-after voice in the fight
1:36
to save female sports.
1:38
And that is not an overstatement.
1:39
She swim for the University of Kentucky where she won multiple titles and awards.
1:43
But in 2022, her life changed and I feel like the fabric of our society changed a little
1:48
bit.
1:49
At the 2022 NCAA Division I, women's swimming and diving championships, that's where her
1:54
life changed forever.
1:55
So she finishes the final for the 200-meter freestyle, which was like her best race.
2:00
And she looked up at the board and it showed that she had actually tied someone for fifth
2:03
place.
2:04
That someone was Leah Thomas, formerly known as Will Thomas, a dude that had previously
2:09
swam on the men's team at the University of Pennsylvania.
2:13
It was now swimming for the women's team, okay?
2:15
So the NCAA only had one trophy for fifth place.
2:18
So they made sure to give it to Leah and they told Riley, "Well, we need to make sure that
2:23
Leah is holding this in the pictures," right?
2:25
And so she had to give up her moment to a quote unquote trans woman, otherwise known as
2:30
a man because the NCAA needed to send a message.
2:33
So after that, Riley kind of had a moment where she had to decide if she was going to
2:37
speak out about her treatment, about what she had to endure and she has and she's continued
2:42
to do so.
2:43
And so in this interview today, we talk about her growing up in a very athletic family,
2:47
how that led to swimming, how that led to collegiate swimming.
2:50
But then when she first became aware of this person named Leah Thomas that seemingly came
2:54
out of nowhere and was beating women by entire body links in the pool, which just doesn't
2:59
happen in high level competition.
3:01
We talk about what she did in preparation for, "Hey, am I going to have to share a locker
3:05
room with this person?
3:06
Like, you know, how are we going to change in front of this person?"
3:08
Because trying to get into these suits is quite the process and you're basically exposed
3:12
the entire time, you know, what it's like having to mentally prepare for competing against
3:16
a man when you're trying to be the most elite person in your sex category, which is against
3:20
other women.
3:21
And then we talk about the race.
3:23
We talk about everything that happened afterwards with the NCAA representative and the people
3:27
at the podium and all of that.
3:28
But then we talk about how her life changed because here she was thinking she was going
3:31
to go to dental school.
3:32
And now here she is being an advocate for things that should be readily apparent to anybody
3:37
with a functioning brain.
3:38
So what's the day in the life of a women's rights advocate or a girl's rights advocate
3:42
or someone that's trying to save women's sports?
3:44
We talk about that.
3:45
We talk about her traveling to college campuses and being accosted and actually being physically
3:49
assaulted, being called a transphobe, but then we spend a good amount of time talking
3:53
about her Christian faith because that is what undergirds everything that she's doing.
3:57
So she's not just advocating this way because she's a, you know, a conservative or because
4:01
she's an old school type of gal.
4:03
She's doing it because she's a Christian and how, you know, fighting for capital T truth
4:07
is actually a thing that we should all be doing.
4:09
And then we talk about, you know, what does life look like from here, you know, suing
4:12
the NCAA.
4:13
She's got to book out.
4:14
Is she going to be doing this for the long run?
4:15
But then for everybody, all the parents out there listening to this, especially those
4:19
with athletic females in your house, you know, daughters, she talks about what are we supposed
4:25
to do because in all these situations, it's like there's a vacuum that's been created
4:29
by these men that don't want to stand up to defend their daughters or as a coach or a principal
4:33
to defend the females that are competing with their school's name across the gal's chest.
4:38
And so she gives us some very practical advice on what to do there.
4:41
So I was very happy to get this interview done.
4:43
We met a long time ago.
4:45
We've just been kind of missing each other with schedule.
4:46
So I was glad we finally got it done.
4:48
Really enjoyed my time with her.
4:49
So without further ado, let's get into it.
4:53
Riley Gaines.
4:54
Welcome to a dog to life of man's podcast.
4:56
Well, thank you.
4:57
I am thrilled to be on with you.
5:00
This was a lot of back and forth were both such busy people.
5:03
So this is very exciting.
5:05
So thank you.
5:06
I'm glad we finally got this going now, Riley.
5:08
I know you've answered a lot of very important questions here, not just recently, but for
5:11
the last couple of years.
5:13
And we're going to answer a lot of really important questions here today, but there's probably
5:16
no more important question than the one I'm going to start out asking you.
5:19
And it's, what did you order at Cudoba the day that we met?
5:23
Because to get everyone in the background, I'm Riley, I'm minding my own business.
5:27
I've got my AirPods in, I'm sitting in the line at the Denver airport at Cudoba.
5:30
I don't even know where I'm flying to.
5:31
I don't know if I'm coming or going.
5:33
And then I turn around and it's like, oh, that's Riley Gaines.
5:36
And so I just reached my hand down and say, hi, Riley, you know, nice to meet you.
5:40
I really like your work.
5:41
I have a podcast you want to come on into your credit.
5:43
You're like, yeah.
5:44
And so I go on about my business.
5:46
I get my steak burrito with queso.
5:48
And then I just take off and then here we are months later doing this, but I've just been
5:51
so curious.
5:52
What did you order?
5:53
Oh, my gosh.
5:54
You're so funny.
5:55
I, um, gosh, I think I got a bowl.
5:58
I think that's why I typically get.
6:00
I know.
6:01
You don't really like the tortilla.
6:02
I get it.
6:03
It's not all.
6:04
We know that kind of stuff.
6:05
Oh, please.
6:06
I wish I wish that was why.
6:07
No, my diet is atrocious.
6:08
Well, right now it's like your, your diet basically consists of whatever the gas station
6:13
or the airport has available.
6:14
So we can give you a little bit of.
6:15
You know it.
6:16
You know it all too well, huh?
6:17
Okay.
6:18
Yeah.
6:19
I do know.
6:20
I do know.
6:21
You're doing a lot of traveling here.
6:22
And so that's okay.
6:23
We'll give you a little bit of reprieve.
6:24
Very beginning.
6:25
And I know you've had to talk about all this, but for anybody out there who has not heard
6:28
your name or knows your story, we need to start with athletics because athletics is
6:32
obviously a big part of your life, but you have a unique kind of story because you grew
6:37
up in a family full of athletes, like I grew up in a family where I was the only athlete.
6:42
I was the only one that can walk and chew gum at the same time.
6:45
That is not what the Gaines household was all about.
6:47
So talk to us a little bit about growing up like that.
6:49
No, you're exactly right.
6:51
I'm so fortunate to come from a family where I had that foundation.
6:56
My dad, he was an SEC Hall of Famer.
6:59
He played football.
7:00
He went on to play in the NFL for a while.
7:03
My mom, she's a Division I softball player, my older sister.
7:07
She played softball.
7:08
She went to Ole Miss.
7:09
My brother.
7:10
He's in college.
7:11
He plays football now.
7:12
My younger sister, she is a elite-level gymnast.
7:16
I would never tell her this, but she's probably the best athlete of all of us.
7:21
All my dads, brothers, I mean, they've won Super Bowls, all kinds of just insane, crazy
7:26
things.
7:28
So growing up playing sports, it was really never even an option.
7:32
We weren't really allowed to not play sports.
7:35
I'll tell you, my dad, they never told us which sport we had to play, right?
7:40
Obviously given me and my siblings all did different sports.
7:43
So I did a bunch, I did a lot of, you know, like a lot of little kids do.
7:46
I played soccer, I did basketball, all the different things.
7:52
But I, of course, I was drawn to swimming, which my dad, being a big old football player,
7:58
right?
7:59
He used to be big.
8:00
Now I think he's kind of just fat.
8:01
Uh-oh.
8:02
I know, right?
8:03
But when I started swimming, he said, no, Riley, like I told you you had to play a sport.
8:09
This is just like a recreational hobby.
8:11
This isn't a sport, to which I'd tell him, you know, dad, it's hard.
8:15
This is a sport.
8:16
He'd say, no, it's not.
8:17
No, it's not.
8:18
But I stuck with it.
8:19
Uh, and I'll tell you, his justification for this was any sport, any activity where a man
8:24
is wearing panties is not a sport, that's what he would say.
8:28
Um, but of course I stuck with it, uh, very fortunate to, uh, receive a scholarship to
8:35
continue my athletic and academic career at the University of Kentucky, uh, which was
8:41
there really couldn't have been a better place for me.
8:43
Uh, and by the end of, of my collegiate career, when I graduated, my dad finally came around.
8:48
Uh, I started breaking SEC records and doing some pretty incredible things and he would
8:53
be there for those meets and watch, uh, and see the energy, see the environment, uh, see
8:58
how, you know, the hard work was paying off and finally, finally, he admitted that swimming
9:03
was in fact a sport.
9:05
Well, hey, I'm, I'm glad Daddy Gaines finally came around.
9:08
That's, that's really, really important.
9:09
And here's the thing I've heard you talk about before.
9:12
The level of training that you had to do, the, the number of hours you had to put in in
9:16
the pool, not just, you know, in total, but every single day, the amount of calories
9:21
burned and then, you know, you're waking up early, you're doing all this, even during
9:24
COVID, I think you were like swimming in some lakes somewhere, right?
9:27
You know, you were doing everything you could.
9:29
So yes, it's a sport that doesn't have a defense, but it's a sport nonetheless.
9:33
And so it requires a whole lot of you.
9:35
And so we got to speed up to the Leah Thomas part because obviously you're a collegiate
9:40
swimmer.
9:41
You've got all the trophies.
9:42
You're leading your team.
9:43
And then you become aware of somebody that you've never heard of before.
9:47
That is all of a sudden smashing people in a lot of the races that you participate in.
9:52
And so let's, let's go there, Riley.
9:54
Let's go to when you became aware of this person, namely a Thomas, and then we'll kind
9:59
of like, you know, spread out the story from there.
10:01
Yeah, so my junior year at the University of Kentucky, I ended up concluding my junior
10:07
season by placing seventh in the country, which I was proud of, your top eight, you're
10:13
an all-American.
10:14
It's a pretty high honor, but not my best time.
10:18
I knew I was capable of more.
10:20
And so I was right then and there that I placed seventh my junior year that I set a
10:22
goal for my senior year to win a national title, which would, of course, mean becoming
10:27
the fastest woman in the country in my respective event.
10:30
And so senior year rolls around and I'm right on pace to achieve this goal, about midway
10:36
through my senior season, I was ranked third in the nation in the 200 free, trailing the
10:40
girl in second, a girl I knew very well by a few 100s, a few tenths of a second, maybe.
10:48
But the summer who was leading the nation by body links, might I add, was a summer that
10:54
none of us had ever heard of before.
10:56
Not me, not my teammates, not my coaches, not my family, not my other competitors, none
10:59
of us had heard this name, of course, that name being Leah Thomas.
11:06
For all we knew at the time, keep in mind we hadn't seen a photo of this person or else
11:10
things would have been a little more clear.
11:12
But for all I knew at the time, this was a senior from University of Pennsylvania, which
11:18
is not a school that has ever historically produced that caliber of summers, leading the
11:23
nation by body links and events ranging from the 100 freestyle and all the freestyle events
11:28
in between through the mile, so sprint events, distance events, mid distance events, all
11:34
of them, which is, again, that's unheard of, even if you don't know much about swimming.
11:40
You know, like think about your Olympic runners, it's like saying your best 200 meter runner
11:44
is your best marathon runner.
11:45
It doesn't happen in two totally different systems, but that's what we were seeing in
11:50
this person.
11:51
And so I'm scratching my head, talking to my coaches, who is this?
11:55
Again, no idea.
11:56
We continue to stay in the dark until an article came out disclosing that Leah Thomas is formerly
12:03
Will Thomas and swam three years on the men's team at University of Pennsylvania before
12:07
deciding to switch to the women's team.
12:12
Of course, we were shocked when we read this, and when I say we, I mean me and all of my
12:17
teammates, we were shocked when we read this.
12:21
But really upon reading it, it was like this overwhelming sense of relief, like, oh, dah,
12:28
that makes sense why this person is dominating.
12:31
It's a man.
12:34
And I thought that Dean Sibley would see it, how again I saw it at my teammates and my coaches,
12:38
and anyone with any amount of brain activity would probably comprehend this.
12:43
Nothing hateful about it.
12:44
Nothing even opinionated about it, given the fact that when competing against the men,
12:49
this was a man who was less than mediocre, less than average.
12:52
Okay.
12:53
It was terrible.
12:54
1554th in the nation the year prior and the same event when competing against the men.
12:59
So now not just number one, against women, I mean, dominating the entire country, the
13:04
entire country of girls, but lo and behold, the NCAA did not see it that way.
13:11
They saw absolutely nothing wrong with this.
13:14
And so about three weeks before our national championships in March of 2022, they announced
13:19
that Thomas's participation in the women's category was a non-negotiable, meaning there's
13:26
nothing that we could do.
13:27
There was no questions that we could ask or concerns that we could raise.
13:31
We were told we had to accept this with a smile on our face.
13:35
So that was really how I found out who this Leah Thomas, Will Thomas figure was and ultimately
13:43
how the NCAA responded leading up to that national championships in March of 2022?
13:49
Well, Riley, let's talk about the lead up because we could spend a lot of time elucidating
13:53
the differences between male and female bodies, male and female puberty and all that, but
13:57
essentially the only disadvantage that Leah Thomas had is he had a little bit more body
14:04
to him.
14:05
He had a little bit more flesh in certain parts of his body that may create a little bit more
14:08
drag, but he had a whole lot more going for him that made him a whole lot faster swimmer
14:13
in the pool.
14:14
So let's talk about the lead up to the 2022 Division One women's swimming and diving championships.
14:22
What are you and your teammates saying about this?
14:25
What are y'all feeling about this?
14:27
Because I know there had to be some confusion.
14:29
Did you think the NCAA was going to put him in a different locker room?
14:33
Like talk about kind of the run up because as everybody knows at this point, that knows
14:37
your story, will Thomas or Leah Thomas will call him by his given name or by his chosen
14:43
name was in the locker room with you all.
14:46
And this is a process where you're putting on your suits that takes quite a long time.
14:49
And this is a person that is, as you very politely call it, a fully intact male just
14:55
walking around swinging around the locker room.
14:57
And y'all are just supposed to not only think that this is okay, but cheer him along as he
15:01
does his little charade.
15:02
So let's talk about the run up before y'all ever even hopped in the pool for the championships.
15:07
Yeah.
15:08
Yeah, you mentioned feelings of confusion.
15:10
I think that's a good way to put it, to be honest.
15:14
Like I said, when we found out that this was the case, we lived in this state of bewilderment
15:21
for a while.
15:22
We found out who he was in about November of 2021.
15:24
So we had about three, four months before my team had to actually compete against him.
15:29
And so in these months leading up to this, admittedly, I'm kind of ashamed to admit it,
15:36
really.
15:37
But there were feelings of almost entrigment, curiosity, really.
15:42
We had all the questions.
15:43
The questions you mentioned, is he really as tall as Instagram pictures make him look,
15:48
will he be sharing our locker room?
15:50
Will he sandbag his races to make it look competitive, or will he blow everyone out of
15:54
the water?
15:55
I mean, it was feelings of entrigment.
15:58
I think that's the best way to put it.
16:00
We felt like we were living in this circus.
16:01
And so we kind of naively had a light heart joking.
16:05
We knew it was wrong.
16:06
Of course, we did.
16:07
We knew it was unfair.
16:08
There was never a question there.
16:10
But I don't think we saw the severity of it.
16:13
We didn't see the harm.
16:14
I don't think that's fair to say.
16:17
We saw the harm in it, but I don't think I understand to what extent the harm it would
16:22
cause until we got to that meet and saw firsthand all of our questions were answered.
16:27
I guess he was as tall as Instagram and I'm lucky, six foot four, he was towering over
16:32
every girl at that meet.
16:33
And yes, he got to, to undress in our locker room and it wasn't the same comical comedic
16:38
relief.
16:39
We made it seem to be leading up to it.
16:42
No, it was feelings of utter violation and betrayal is how it felt.
16:48
The unfair competition, again, it was blatantly obvious and it wasn't the the SNL skit we had
16:54
pictured in our head or the Babylon B headline or the the South Park episode that are objectively
17:00
meant to be funny.
17:02
It was real life and those feelings of, of, you know, curiosity, they switched to feelings
17:08
of heartbreak.
17:09
They switched to, I mean, I felt like really I'd been punched in the gut watching girls
17:15
and tears.
17:16
I mean, I saw girls crying.
17:19
I saw parents in the stands, moms watching their daughters, you know, be obliterated in
17:24
the sport that they once loved.
17:25
I saw the tears that they shed, girls who placed ninth and 17th and were supposed to
17:30
be named all Americans who were denied that.
17:33
I saw and felt the extreme discomfort in the locker and I heard the whispers because that's
17:38
what they were.
17:39
They were whispers of anger and frustration from those girls who just like myself had
17:44
worked our entire lives to get to this meet.
17:48
And that's why I say I was really, we were all ashamed for treating this light heart,
17:54
light heartedly.
17:55
Again, not because we knew or we thought at any point it was fair, but because it felt
18:01
like a mockery, it felt like this like I just, I mean, like I said, it felt like some sort
18:09
of someone was going to come out with a camera and be like, "Ha ha, you've been pranked."
18:12
But that part never happened.
18:15
So I guess that's kind of the general consensus of how we felt.
18:19
Well, and the thing about it, Riley, is the reason why Macho Man Randy Savage competing
18:24
against women in the South Park Skit is funny is because it's outrageous.
18:28
But there's something here that you touch on that I think is not talked about enough
18:32
because obviously if you have any type of a justice bend inside of your soul, which I
18:36
certainly do, the injustice of someone basically cheating to win, whether it's, you know, someone
18:41
taking steroids so they can hit more home runs in baseball or someone switching over to the
18:45
women's team so that they might actually win some medals and trophies in swimming.
18:49
It just feels terrible.
18:51
But the violation of what y'all had to endure in the locker room and to also be told, "Hey,
18:57
this is no big deal.
18:59
It's your feelings that are incorrect."
19:02
So it's this, it's an extreme form of gaslighting, Riley, that I don't believe is being talked
19:07
about nearly enough as it pertains to this entire subject matter, but you do eventually
19:11
get in the pool against this dude.
19:13
It's the 200 meter freestyle.
19:15
This is the final.
19:16
This is what you have literally trained your entire life for as a swimmer.
19:20
You hit the wall, you look up at the screen and you have, what was it, a five by your name?
19:25
Yeah.
19:26
Right.
19:27
So you got a five by your name, but so does Leah.
19:30
You've got fives by your name.
19:31
It's a miracle because again, when you were talking about him leading by body links in
19:35
his, these races, that doesn't happen in swimming.
19:37
Like we're talking about tens of seconds, hundreds of seconds that separate the first
19:41
from the last, right?
19:43
But y'all are tied, which is a miracle in and of itself.
19:46
So take us through that feeling of not only how pathetic this dude is that he ties you
19:51
even though he should have obliterated you just by being genetically superior, but then
19:56
take us through the situation that happened when there's two of you and they only have
20:00
one fifth place trophy.
20:01
Yeah.
20:02
Now, to your point, well, the first day of competition was the 500 freestyle and he blew
20:08
everyone out of the water.
20:09
I mean, right.
20:11
Olympians.
20:12
These are American record holders.
20:13
Keep in mind they're not scrubs.
20:15
They're the most impressive and accomplished female swimmers this world has ever seen.
20:19
And again, he beat them by body links, ultimately making him the first man to win a division
20:25
one in steel blade women's title trailblazer.
20:29
But the second day is the day you're referring to when we raced in the 200 free got on the
20:34
block, dove off, swam, eight laps of freestyle, touched the wall at the end.
20:38
I look up at the scoreboard and almost impossibly enough, we had tied, uh, yeah, indicating we
20:45
went the exact same time down to the hundredth of a second.
20:49
But despite tying, uh, which yeah, it's kind of embarrassing a six foot four man couldn't
20:55
even beat me.
20:56
All of me at five foot five, five foot six, granted, I don't think he was trying at all,
21:01
but nonetheless, um, and I think it's divine intervention as well, uh, as someone who is
21:07
deeply rooted in my faith, uh, my faith is, is central in all that idea before I want
21:13
to speak to objective truth.
21:14
Uh, I want to live a Christ like life and speak to, to biblical truth, um, but tying down
21:20
to the hundredth of the, of the second, um, you can't tell me that's not God, but we
21:26
go behind the awards podium where this official looks at both Thomas and myself, Thomas towering
21:30
over me.
21:31
And he says, great job.
21:32
You too.
21:33
Uh, congratulations.
21:34
What a great race, but you guys tied.
21:37
And we only have one trophy.
21:38
So we're going to give the trophy to Leah.
21:40
Sorry, Riley, you don't get one, uh, I was immediately taken aback, right?
21:46
My, my heart rate was high.
21:48
Having just competed in my adrenaline was still pumping.
21:50
And so the first thing that I thought ended up being the first thing that I said, and
21:54
the first thought that I had was, what do you mean this, this trophy and the women's
22:00
200 free is going to, to the man?
22:03
Isn't this everything that title nine was passed to prevent from happening?
22:09
Uh, to which he wasn't prepared to answer this, uh, the dreaded question of why the question
22:16
no one dared ask all season, uh, they didn't give him a script of what to say when someone
22:21
asked why. And so he, uh, actually appreciate his honesty after a couple of different excuses,
22:28
realizing, uh, that he was backed into a corner.
22:32
He said, and he said this with a sad face, uh, his voice changed.
22:36
I could tell he didn't even believe what he was about to say, but he said, Riley, I'm
22:40
so sorry, but we have been advised as an organization that when photos are being taken, it's crucial
22:46
that the trophies in Leah's hands.
22:48
Again, you can pose with this one, uh, but you have to give your trophy back.
22:53
Leah takes the trophy home.
22:55
You go home empty handed in of story.
22:58
And that was the moment when that was the moment when, uh, I realized, uh, what a farce
23:08
we were participating in myself included.
23:10
I felt guilty.
23:11
I felt compelled.
23:12
I felt responsible.
23:13
Uh, I realized in that moment, if, if you aren't willing to condemn something, you're
23:18
condoning it.
23:19
I was just as bad as the people who created and enforce those policies.
23:24
I remember distinctly, I really do like vividly, I up until this point, I just kind of naively
23:31
waited for someone else to say something because I didn't really think it was my job
23:35
to.
23:36
I thought my job was to show up and swim.
23:38
I thought, you know, it's a coaches job to protect us.
23:41
It's, it's someone within the NCAA, someone with political power, someone's dad, quite
23:45
honestly, should come down there and yank this man out of our locker rooms.
23:48
I didn't think it was up to me, but I remember this realization slapping me across the face
23:54
and it was like, Oh my gosh, how in the world could I expect someone to stand up for me?
24:03
If I wasn't even willing to stand up for me, this has to come from us as women, as female
24:08
athletes, and it was, it was then when I decided that I could no longer look at myself in the
24:15
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24:21
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26:17
So I appreciate you taking us through all that detail because there has been a critique
26:21
of you and others, which is like, okay, so you wait until your collegiate career is over
26:26
to say something, but then you participate it with the farce while it was happening.
26:30
And I'm typically a pretty black and white person in terms of my thinking, but it's like,
26:35
you weren't given a whole lot of time to process what was happening, right?
26:39
Because again, you even admitted you thought that somebody was going to come out and be
26:42
like, we're punking y'all, this isn't really going to happen, we're not going to let this
26:45
enormous fool get into this pool and make a mockery of this entire proceeding.
26:50
But that's what happened.
26:51
And you've been very open about talking about wishing you would have spoken up sooner, but
26:56
just not really going that route.
26:58
So you decide after the race that you're not going to be silent, you're not going to be
27:01
muzzled by the University of Kentucky or by the SEC or any other governing body over
27:06
the race that you did.
27:08
And then you kind of thrust yourself into this cultural conversation about women's rights,
27:14
girls' rights, Title IX, sports, transgenderism and all these types of things.
27:19
So just talk about that, talk about the decision to like, no, I'm not going to be muzzled,
27:23
but then kind of how that changed the trajectory of your life.
27:27
Yeah, of course.
27:29
And I think muzzled is a good word.
27:31
And I think it's something people don't realize the pressure that we were under to stay quiet.
27:40
It's effective, believe it or not, it works.
27:43
That's why there's been so few of us, people in my same position who have taken a stand.
27:49
Because again, it's efficient what they're doing.
27:53
We had to go to training.
27:54
We had to go to sensitivity training to learn how to use she, her pronouns.
27:59
If we didn't adhere, if we didn't complete the training to their standard, we had to
28:04
re-go through the training until we did.
28:07
We were told you'll never get a job if you speak out.
28:10
You'll never get into grad school.
28:13
Your employer is going to look you up and see that you're a transphobe and you don't
28:16
want that, do you?
28:17
You're going to lose all your friends.
28:19
You'll lose your scholarship and you're playing time and oh yeah, Riley speaking of that scholarship.
28:24
Remember you sign that and when you sign that, you gave away your rights to speak in your
28:28
own personal capacity.
28:30
Remember whose name is across your chest, across your cap, because it's not yours.
28:34
It's ours and understand we have already taken your stance for you.
28:39
Universities went as far as to tell their athletes that they would be equivalent to being murderers
28:44
if they spoke up about this.
28:46
We would have blood on our hands if we spoke up and there were any sort of physical or
28:52
emotional or self-inflicted for that matter, trauma to Thomas or someone like Thomas.
28:59
We were the ultimate oppressors.
29:01
It's insane looking back all the different tactics, going to re-education training, counseling
29:09
resources provided through the LGBTQ education center to make us feel comfortable seeing
29:14
male genitalia.
29:15
That's what they said.
29:16
They said we needed to be re-educated into learning how to be okay with this.
29:22
Again, I don't know if a lot of people realize yes, we see the problem in the unfair competition,
29:28
but this truly, really and truly has become, it's transcended beyond the subject matter,
29:33
the premise of the debate and it really has become an infringement on our first amendment
29:38
rights and freedom of thought and freedom of expression and of course, freedom of speech,
29:43
especially on college campuses within the academic realm.
29:48
Finally, I decided, like I said, I could no longer go along with this.
29:59
My first action, I actually called my athletic director.
30:03
He's been the AD at Kentucky for 20 plus years.
30:06
He's very well respected, very high up in terms of athletic directors, NCAA governing
30:13
board members.
30:15
He's amazing.
30:16
We had a great relationship and I called him and I said, "Hey Mitch, Mitch Barnhart is
30:19
his name."
30:20
I said, "Hey Mitch, this is what has happened and this is how we feel.
30:25
How do you feel if I take a public stand and acknowledging that this is wrong?"
30:28
And I'll never forget what he said.
30:30
I was expecting him to, actually I don't really know what I was expecting, but I, you know,
30:37
his response back was, "Riley, I love you.
30:40
Speak your heart.
30:41
Speak your convictions and don't worry about painting this university in a bad light because
30:45
we're behind you."
30:47
And I don't think he knew how badly I needed to hear that.
30:50
So that was huge.
30:52
It was instrumental in me feeling confident enough and secure enough to speak out because
30:57
I didn't want to paint my university in a bad light.
30:59
I loved my university.
31:00
I really did.
31:01
I loved my time there.
31:02
I loved my team and my coaches, all of which you were very supportive.
31:05
A lot of the trainings and re-education stuff came from the, again, the athletic, I mean,
31:10
the academic side of our university.
31:14
And so I had, I think we can all agree swimming is not a sport that garners a lot of media
31:20
attention, but this meat was different because there was left-leaning, right-leaning reporters,
31:26
everything in between who were desperately reaching out.
31:29
They would find your social media or your email or whatever it is and they would send
31:33
you a message, especially after I tied him, hoping to get a quote or a story they could
31:39
take back to their publisher.
31:41
And so I, my inbox was filled and I ultimately picked a girl from the Daily Wire and I decided
31:47
to tell her everything.
31:49
I told her about the locker room.
31:50
I told her about the trophy.
31:51
I told her about the unfair competition, all of it.
31:54
And the story blew up, I think, for a couple of reasons.
31:58
One of which being sports is something that resonates with everyone.
32:02
Sports aren't meant to be political or divisive in their true nature.
32:06
And because it's not boring, like the economy or the environment, everyone loves sports.
32:12
So that was, was the first step and from then it's just been a whirlwind every day since.
32:19
Well, I remember, I think it was Mary Market, Oolahan that did that initial coverage for
32:24
the Daily Wire.
32:25
And I remember seeing that and just being like, this, this isn't possible.
32:28
But anymore, it's like with Obergefeld in 2015, everyone's like, oh, the world changed with
32:34
COVID in 2020.
32:35
No.
32:36
And the, you know, legalization of gay marriage, that changed the country and the, the social
32:40
fabric for everything moving forward.
32:42
But it's interesting because you bring up how most of this was coming from the academic
32:46
side, not the athletic side.
32:47
That makes perfect sense, Riley, because most of the people in the academic side have never
32:50
competed.
32:51
They've never worked so hard for something like the hardest thing that they've worked
32:54
for is a damn spelling bee or something like that.
32:57
And it's not even that level of competition.
32:58
And so they've never tried so hard because here's the thing, winners and losers have
33:03
the same goals.
33:04
That's what people in the academic side don't understand is you can train just as hard if
33:08
not harder.
33:09
And you don't get to stand on top of the podium just because you put in the effort.
33:13
There are differences in people.
33:14
There's differences in giftings and there's differences and abilities to work even harder
33:18
to achieve a goal.
33:20
So that's not the least bit surprising.
33:21
But here you are.
33:22
You've graduated.
33:23
You got your degree.
33:24
You're supposed to be going off to dental school or something like, you know, making something
33:27
of yourself.
33:28
And all of a sudden you're a women's rights, girls' rights advocate.
33:32
And so let's go through what a day in life of Riley gains the women's rights, girls'
33:37
rights, you know, title nine advocate is because you're going to speak on these college campuses,
33:42
which a bunch with a bunch of people that don't want you there.
33:44
They think your presence is violence.
33:47
You've experienced actual real world physical violence because of that, you know, obviously
33:51
every day you're called to transfer for pointing out things that are, you know, blatantly obvious
33:55
to anybody with a functioning prefrontal cortex.
33:58
So just take us through a day in the life, Riley.
34:01
So gosh, there's lots of different hats and stuff that I find myself wearing now.
34:10
As you said, when school colleges, we've already discussed how a lot of this moral rot that
34:19
we are facing and experiencing and seeing firsthand the effects of in our nation is stemming
34:26
from academia, especially on college campuses.
34:30
That was made very clear, I think with everything that went on in the Middle East, we all got
34:36
to see the effects of really it's kind of like this Frankenstein scenario where these
34:42
liberal progressive institutions have created these monsters and it was the same monsters
34:48
that these schools created that would ultimately be the school's demise.
34:54
So that was made very clear, I would say last semester or so.
34:57
But nonetheless, this is the, this is who needs to hear the message.
35:03
So when school is in session, I find myself putting myself in the belly of the beast traveling
35:12
to different universities, stemming from, I mean, the most liberal of liberal Harvard,
35:19
Princeton, Cal Berkeley, but a large range, lots of Christian Catholic institutions as
35:25
well, St. Mary's, Truett McConnell, which is a Christian school in Georgia and like I
35:30
said, everything in between.
35:33
And yeah, what I have found in doing that, I have been called every name.
35:37
You could possibly imagine, right, transphobic, homophobic, racist, white supremacist, domestic
35:43
terrorist, a fascist, a Nazi, the list goes on.
35:47
I have been spit on, I have had drinks poured on me, glass bottles thrown at me.
35:53
One instance in San Francisco, which you alluded to, I was physically, I mean, I was attacked,
35:59
I was ambushed by these, these protesters, hundreds of them upon delivering my message
36:05
in a classroom setting, right, podium at the front, lots of seats and chairs, students
36:12
and community members who were there, protesters, they, they rush into the back, they turn off
36:18
the lights, they rush to the front, storm me at the podium.
36:22
That's when I'm being pushed and I'm shoved and I'm, I'm punched in the face by these
36:26
men wearing dresses, which fortunately for me, their punches really don't hurt that bad.
36:32
Yeah, they're, they're a little limpy in their wrist area, like that's all you got.
36:37
Yeah.
36:38
But they ended up holding me for ransom for, I mean, for hours for five hours demanding
36:44
that if I wanted to make it home to see my family safely again, I had to pay them money.
36:49
You might be wondering, okay, well, where are the police, call, this is San Francisco,
36:55
the police were being held for ransom with me.
36:58
I'm looking at the officers.
36:59
We're taking pretty sure we're being held against our will, pretty sure we call that
37:02
kidnapping.
37:03
You have a gun, I'm not saying you don't want to do something.
37:07
But don't you guys, yeah, to which they said, no, we can't, we're not allowed to do anything
37:13
because we're not allowed to be seen as anything other than, than an ally to this community
37:18
or else we'll lose our jobs.
37:20
So, no, we can't do anything.
37:23
All the while, the Dean of Students, again, this is the middle of the night.
37:26
It's like midnight.
37:27
Okay.
37:28
The Dean of Students shows up, starts negotiating with the students, how much I owe each of
37:31
them to be able to leave, which the price they agreed upon was $10 each, which makes
37:37
me mad because I think I'm worth more than $10.
37:39
Of course, come on.
37:42
I know.
37:43
I'm like at least 20.
37:45
Come on.
37:46
Yeah.
37:47
Don't tilt me like that.
37:48
But anyways, that's, that's the scenarios that I find myself in.
37:54
I do a lot of, of course, advocating at the state level, the federal level within local
38:03
governments.
38:04
So lots of testifying, lots of time spent on the legislative side, helping draft these
38:11
bills, helping teach legislators how to talk about these bills, how to frame the mess
38:17
aging here, to be effective and to, to persuade others onto our side.
38:23
Because like I said, this, this, it's become, I mean, part of part is an entirely almost,
38:31
which is, is heartbreaking that the protection, sex based protections and rights, uh, there's
38:38
a whole party of our, of our political system, of our government, um, who has deemed that
38:43
women are worthy of sex based protections.
38:46
They're not worthy of, of privacy.
38:48
We're not worthy of safety in our sports or, or maintaining our dignity.
38:52
No, our sole purpose is to, of, of existing is to validate the feelings and the identity
38:58
of a man.
38:59
And it's ironic because these are, this is the same party that claims to be champions
39:04
for women, that claims to be these social justice warriors and, and they fight for women's
39:08
rights.
39:09
Let's be very clear.
39:11
Uh, these same people who have historically called themselves or been labeled as feminist
39:16
are the same people who are dismantling, uh, women's rights, uh, under the guise of, of
39:23
progress.
39:24
Weirdly enough, indicating we are moving in the positive forward direction, uh, but this
39:30
is not progress.
39:31
This is taking us back in time.
39:33
This is deeply regressive, uh, at least half a century.
39:37
I don't know, I was enacted in 1972, uh, so at least half a century, testified before
39:42
the US house, the US Senate many times, that kind of thing, uh, so it's a lot.
39:46
There's a lot of, of, of roles that I've undertaken, but I do it with a smile on my face.
39:53
Well, the, the thing about what you're saying that's so interesting is the party that claims
39:59
or lays claim to first, second, third and fourth wave feminism is the same party that's
40:03
advocating for these things that's so deleterious to women and girls.
40:06
And that's the thing, like, you know, people were giving, you know, comedians like Dave
40:10
Chappelle so much crap when he's like, look guys, the, the L's, the G's and the T's.
40:15
They can't coexist like feminism and transgenderism and these ideologies.
40:19
They can't coexist.
40:20
And which is one of those things is when you don't have a higher authority that you can
40:24
appeal to, right?
40:26
If you don't have a higher book that tells you that this is moral and this is not, it
40:30
becomes problematic because you realize that you have your feet planted firmly in mid-air
40:34
when you're trying to espouse your philosophy.
40:37
So I do want to talk a little bit more about that because, you know, even when you're,
40:40
you know, interviewing with Ben Shapiro or Jordan Peterson or, you know, Joe Rogan, I
40:43
don't know if you've done Peterson yet.
40:46
But like whenever you, you interview with these people, you can, you talk about Christianity
40:50
kind of around the edges a little bit, which I love and I appreciate.
40:52
So I want to give you a little bit more runway to talk about that because you're not just
40:57
talking about this because justice, right?
40:59
Because you can define justice, however you want, and maybe it's social justice and maybe
41:02
it's, you know, feminist justice or something like that, but your sense of justice comes
41:07
from a Christian ethic that is informed by your Christian faith and your faith that you
41:11
have been put in Christ.
41:13
So talk to me a little bit about, you know, how you specifically became a Christian, but
41:17
then how your Christian faith is helping you do the stuff you're doing, which right now,
41:21
which is by no means fun to do.
41:24
No.
41:25
And you don't know how much I appreciate this question because on the likes of Jordan Peterson
41:30
and Joe Rogan, obviously very, very smart people, very analytical, very logical.
41:37
These aren't people who are deeply rooted in faith, which is not the case for me.
41:43
I am deeply rooted in my faith.
41:45
I think that's the reason why we are where we are as a society is because we have, have
41:50
turned into a godless society that that's very clear to me.
41:55
Who spends time in the word and in scripture and has a, what I would like to think, a relatively
42:01
good understanding of what it means when you take God out of a society.
42:05
We've seen it in China.
42:06
We've seen it in Russia and Brazil and Venezuela and Cuba and the Czech Republic and in North
42:10
Korea, different places.
42:12
And you look at those societies now.
42:15
It's very clear what happens when you remove religion, specifically God, but, but those
42:22
platforms with, I mean, incredible audiences.
42:24
I think Joe Rogan has 200 million, something subscribers.
42:29
There wasn't a fantastic segue into speaking to this.
42:35
I made sure to make a point of it and it definitely got his wheels turning.
42:40
He's like, you know what, maybe the Bible, maybe it's not this, this big book made a
42:44
fictional story.
42:45
You know, maybe there is some truth to it because a lot of it is, you know, we're seeing it
42:50
in real time.
42:51
So it was cool to be able to see his wheels turning.
42:53
But yes, all of that to say to your point, it is, if you can understand, let's think
43:01
about Scripture, right?
43:02
And Paul, Paul warns us, he tells us in Acts and Romans in different places, he tells us
43:07
that we will reach a point where dark is seen as light and bitter is seen as sweet and evil
43:13
is seen as moral.
43:15
How can you deny that that's not where we're at right now where our yeses, our nose and
43:20
our ups are downs?
43:23
And look, that's not me saying that I think people who identify as trans or evil.
43:26
No, I don't think that, but deception is evil and manipulation is evil and lying and affirming
43:34
delusions.
43:36
That's evil and who's the father of lies who moves through deception and in darkness, Satan
43:41
does.
43:43
So it's very clear to me as a Christian that that's what this is.
43:49
You mentioned when I found Christ, when I became a Christian.
43:53
I'm so lucky to have a family, two parents who love each other very much who, I mean,
43:59
we went to church, me and my many siblings every Sunday morning, every Sunday night,
44:05
every Wednesday night, which, you know, when you're 10, 11, 12 years old is not what you
44:10
want to be doing, especially when you're the youngest one in the congregation by probably
44:14
70 plus years, bar my siblings, my younger siblings.
44:19
And so the amount of little like visitor cards in the back of the pews that we would play
44:24
hangman on or tic-tac-toe or connect the dots or, I mean, it's ungodly, but I am so fortunate
44:32
for that foundation, which certainly I think prepared me in a sense for the stand that
44:40
I've taken.
44:41
So, even having that foundation, I have been spiritually awakened these past two years.
44:49
Like I said, it's just very clear to me to see how God works, how he moves, how he provides
44:57
me with strength and wisdom and discernment and protection and guidance and direction and
45:00
all those things, things I pray for daily, he provides those things.
45:03
He has his hand on it.
45:04
There's no doubt about that.
45:05
But again, just as clearly you see how Satan is working and how he is moving.
45:13
And again, once you see it, it's very hard to unsee.
45:17
But that's kind of my perspective on it.
45:20
As I said, we're speaking to objective truth, the most basic of truth that that man and
45:24
woman, biological reality.
45:29
But more importantly, it's very clear when God says he lays it out, he created male and
45:34
female intentionally and uniquely in his perfect image and to alter that or to feel as if you
45:42
can alter that.
45:45
That's you playing God.
45:46
And we know how it turns out when anyone believes that they can play God, it's not pretty.
45:53
It doesn't go well and, you know, we're not fighting against flesh and blood.
45:57
We're fighting against principalities and powers and everything that God creates Satan
46:00
counterfeits.
46:01
So you think about how the rainbow was a symbol that God was promising never to flood the
46:05
earth again.
46:06
And the rainbow has seven colors in it, Roy G Biff, seven colors.
46:10
Well, how many stripes does the fly?
46:12
The pride flag have it has six, right?
46:14
So it looks like the rainbow at a passing glance, but it's not.
46:18
It's a counterfeit.
46:19
And this interview is being released during pride month and it's an entire month of celebrating
46:24
sin and depravity and debauchery and we're not just supposed to be tolerant of it.
46:29
We're not just supposed to accept it.
46:31
We must clap.
46:32
We must clap.
46:33
I mean, we must say that's beautiful, right?
46:36
It's so unique you say this because in Hebrew, I've been trying to spend a lot of my time
46:39
understanding, at least from a, you know, there's lots of symbols and almost hidden messages
46:47
in the Bible, right?
46:48
Numbers were big in Hebrew, what they meant.
46:51
And even hearing you say that in Hebrew, the number seven, it means complete.
46:55
That means wholeness, but the number six is incomplete.
47:01
And I think it's no coincidence that the pride flag has six stripes and the American flag
47:06
has seven.
47:07
It means it is done.
47:08
It's complete, but that is not what the number six means.
47:12
Quite the contrary.
47:13
So interesting.
47:14
Well, it's interesting as well.
47:15
And I remember someone talking about it recently and it was like, you know, it's described
47:18
to different places in the Bible that, you know, being in the presence of God, like you're
47:21
in the presence of the rainbow and it's like, so what does Satan do here on earth?
47:25
Which is, you know, technically where he rules, even though Jesus rules and reigns, we don't
47:29
have to get into a big long theological debate.
47:31
He's surrounding himself by his own version of the rainbow, right?
47:34
By his own worshipers, by people that are flying his flag and saying that this is where
47:39
I'm putting my stake in the ground, because the thing is, Riley, and you know this, if
47:42
you can convince people, one, that a man can become a woman or vice versa, you can convince
47:48
them of anything, but even if you can't convince them that that's true, but you can convince
47:52
them to pretend that it is, it's almost more nefarious.
47:55
That's why I don't play this pronoun hospitality game that a lot of Christians do where they're
47:59
like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, for the sake of the gospel, just call them by the name,
48:04
use their preferred pronouns because the gospel is more important.
48:07
You don't want to shut things down.
48:08
It's like, wait a minute, I'll call you by whatever name, Riley, if you decide you want
48:11
to be called Ryan from here on out great, I'll call you Ryan Gaines.
48:14
But if you say you are to use masculine pronouns, when referring to me, I will say Ryan, that's
48:19
where I have to draw the line because I'm not going to allow you to force me to lie via
48:24
my speech.
48:25
It's just not going to happen that way.
48:27
That's how nefarious and that's how deep the rot of this entire movement goes.
48:32
No, 110%.
48:35
It's something I hear all the time.
48:37
People say, well, be compassionate, be kind.
48:40
Don't you want to be inclusive?
48:42
Which in their true essence and their true meanings, it's wonderful to be compassionate.
48:48
It's wonderful to be empathetic and to be inclusive where exclusion isn't prioritized.
48:56
Again, to be utterly clear here, it is not compassionate to ask a young girl to address
49:04
in front of a man.
49:05
That's not what compassion is and it's not inclusive to ask us to smile and step aside
49:10
and allow these men onto our podiums.
49:12
That's not what inclusion is.
49:13
No, that's exclusion and it's exclusive to the very female athletes or women who title
49:19
nine or the women's sporting category was created to uphold and celebrate.
49:26
I struggled with this at first.
49:30
I really did.
49:32
I would have people who say, you say you're a Christian, that's not how Christ would respond.
49:39
It really was like this internal dilemma with me.
49:44
Do I use the pronouns?
49:46
Do I be respectful?
49:48
That's not what respect is.
49:49
Again, like you said, it's furthering a lie and that lie is not beneficial to anyone.
49:55
It's not beneficial to me, to you, to society at large.
50:00
It's not beneficial to Thomas even and what a terrible message to send to someone.
50:04
We hear the words gender affirming care, gender affirmation all the time, which sounds positive.
50:11
It sounds like a positive thing, but think about it.
50:15
The premise of gender affirming care is that you're telling someone they are correct to
50:21
believe that they were born in the wrong body.
50:24
What a terrible message to send to anyone.
50:26
We should be telling people that they're perfect just the way that they were created
50:31
in his image.
50:33
That's what we should be telling people.
50:34
I find myself, even still, of course, I do believe there's value in having grace and
50:40
showing and displaying grace.
50:42
That's what Christ did so well.
50:43
I think of many accounts in the Bible, right?
50:45
In John where there's a woman, she's an adulterer, they caught her.
50:53
It was actually law that she was punished and stoned.
50:57
Jesus.
50:58
Well, those who don't send cast the first stone to which they were all kind of dumbfounded,
51:06
like, okay, we're all sinners and they all left.
51:09
That was his perfect display of grace, right?
51:12
But then he approaches the woman and he says, no, go and send no more.
51:17
Leave your life of sin behind you.
51:19
That's him landing with the truth and I think a model that all of us, including myself,
51:26
should be able to implement more of in our daily lives.
51:30
Yeah.
51:31
Jesus was not 50% grace, 50% truth.
51:33
He was 100% grace, 100% truth.
51:35
He was always the Lamb of God and always the Lion of Judah and the thing about it is his
51:39
tolerance of sin is not a biblical virtue.
51:42
So when people say, well, Jesus wouldn't act the way it's like, well, how would you know?
51:46
Like from your deep level of understanding, have you ever even read an entire gospel all
51:50
the way through?
51:51
Can you even locate it inside of the canon of the Bible?
51:54
So it's like, I don't know that I'm going to take your exegesis of this worldview that
51:59
you don't even subscribe to and then apply it back on to me.
52:03
But let's talk about what's happening in the actual nitty gritty day to day.
52:08
Let's talk about a father that's got young girls, you know, you know, that are living
52:12
in his household that are competing in sports and they live in an area where a biological
52:17
male is allowed to compete in that sport.
52:20
What is the father to do?
52:22
What are the coaches to do, what are the girls to do?
52:24
Because you've seen, I forget where it was, but there was like a shot put competition
52:28
and all the girls protested the competition, they ended up getting in trouble for it.
52:32
It was because they were going to be throwing against another male, but there are other
52:37
times where the odds of you getting hurt by another competitor and shot put are essentially
52:40
zero, but in basketball, in field hockey, in soccer, in softball, you may have an actual
52:48
physical run in with a biological male and you will open yourself to potential injury.
52:55
So I got a lot of sheepdogs in my world, Riley, like if there's a guy in a girls locker room
52:59
and any of us find out about it, we will be on the news in orange jumpsuits.
53:03
That's just how it's going to be, but not everybody's wired like that.
53:06
But from your perspective, from what you've seen work and not work, what should fathers,
53:10
what should families coaches, what should we do about this?
53:14
We have seen, well, there's a lot of fingers to point, right?
53:18
We could point a finger at the NCAA, we could point a finger at the Biden administration,
53:21
we could point fingers at specific universities, but I believe there's a finger that needs
53:27
to be pointed back at parents.
53:30
Parents who have allowed this, who again have stayed silent, parents who work in corporate
53:35
America, and they don't want to speak up because they don't want to lose their jobs.
53:39
I understand the risk, I understand the threats, but if this is not a hill you are willing
53:44
to die on, defending your own children, defending your daughters, if this is not a hill that
53:50
you are willing to die on, then what in the world is, do I have to care more about your
53:55
kids than you do?
53:57
What a sad, sad reality.
53:59
And speaking to the case in West Virginia, it is a tragic day when 13, 14 year old girls
54:06
have to be the adults in the room because every other adult felled them entirely.
54:10
Why do they have to bear the burden of what they did so bravely, actually, which I, like
54:20
I said, I've changed my mind on this.
54:22
I didn't think when I was competing and even after that, I didn't think that women should
54:25
have to concede or to step aside to not go when the gun goes.
54:31
I thought, you know, we shouldn't have to make that compromise.
54:34
We're the ones who've worked hard, but then I realized if we waited for people to do the
54:39
right thing unprovoked, we would be waiting for forever.
54:43
We do have to take that action.
54:45
I believe it happened in the way that it did where I did compete.
54:48
You know, I think that was certainly God's plan and his timing and it allowed the conversation
54:53
to spark in the way that it has, but I will say if I had to compete against a guy again,
54:57
if I was still swimming or competing, no way would I run the race, would I get in the pool?
55:04
There's no way I would.
55:07
And we've seen that be effective.
55:08
And so all of this back to parents, what can parents do?
55:12
One lead by example, teach your kids how to be independent thinkers, teach them how to
55:16
call out an injustice when they see it, defend your daughters.
55:22
That being said, right, so much of this movement is centered around girls and women and we
55:27
ask ourselves, where are the feminists, which again, don't even get me started on that question.
55:31
But I think just as often as we ask the question of where are the feminists, we should be asking
55:35
the questions of where, where are the dads, right?
55:41
I think there's, well, there's a saying it's proven itself to be true and it's hard times
55:45
create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, weak men
55:48
create hard times.
55:49
And of course, it's a cycle that repeats itself.
55:51
You can see it play out, not just here in Western civilization, but the rise and fall
55:55
of any civilization.
55:58
There's no doubt in my mind, which part of the process we're in now where weak men have
56:02
created hard times, I watched a video this morning of a guy, he was, I don't know what
56:08
his position was, but he was out in Washington.
56:10
Of course, Pride Month is approaching.
56:13
It is Pride Month by the time this interview airs.
56:17
And there was a big rainbow mural or walkway in the street, a pedestrian, I guess, walkway
56:24
in the middle of the street.
56:25
And there was a car that went over it and did a burnout, left tire marks on it.
56:29
And there's a man speaking at some sort of press conference, a grown man, balling interiors
56:37
crying over this.
56:38
And I'm watching this and I'm like, what a perfect, what a perfect display of why we
56:43
are a nation in decline.
56:44
This is a man, a grown man, crying over sidewalk chalk, like what in the world?
56:49
So it's very clear where we are in the process now.
56:51
I think the last time we had a society full of strong men was in the 1940s during World
56:56
War II, the self-proclaimed greatest generation, but you think about it.
57:00
These were men who were willing to and actively lying about their age, saying they were older
57:05
than what they really were so they couldn't list and fight for this country.
57:08
And now, what, 80-ish years later, you have men actively lying about their sex so they
57:14
can get into women's sports or women's prisons or women's locker rooms or women's sororities
57:18
or dorm rooms or what have you.
57:20
It's a telltale sign of where we are now.
57:22
All of that to say, defend your kids, defend your daughters, teach your sons how to be
57:29
strong men, men who are willing to fulfill their biblical role of protecting and providing.
57:34
Well, when a vacuum is created by cowards, somebody's got to fill the gap and I hate
57:38
that it's adolescent gals.
57:40
Now I'm long on questions, but we're short on time.
57:42
So we'll kind of combine a lot of this here at the end.
57:44
You shouldn't be doing what you're doing right now because you're supposed to be in dental
57:46
school.
57:47
You're supposed to be minding your own business.
57:48
You're a newlywed.
57:49
You could be doing Riley, but here you are, you're suing the NCAA, you've got a book
57:53
out now, guys.
57:54
It's in the show notes.
57:55
You can check it out there.
57:56
It is out now swimming against the current.
57:58
But what's next for you?
57:59
Like how much longer are you going to be going to these red states, taking pictures with
58:03
my governor, Kevin Stidt and other people's governors and doing your thing?
58:07
Is this what you're going to do now?
58:08
Are you just going to be going to, you know, conservative conferences and talking in all
58:12
these places like, or at some point is this all going to chill out?
58:15
I hope not, I can only, I guess, go on Fox News and speak to the old white men watching
58:21
Fox News so many times, Kyle.
58:24
Yeah.
58:25
I will say you do have a great governor down in Oklahoma, Oklahoma just this past week
58:32
recently.
58:34
They just got through a bill, Governor Stitt signed an executive order.
58:38
He was the first governor in the nation to sign an executive order on a bill that defined
58:42
the word woman, I can't even believe that's necessary.
58:46
So dumb, but yeah.
58:47
But he did.
58:48
And so they just got that through the legislative body, which is fantastic.
58:51
So great things going on in Oklahoma.
58:53
But I hope not.
58:54
This is not what I want to do.
58:56
This is never what I wanted to do.
58:58
You have to be clinically insane if you want to be working or involved in the political
59:03
sphere at any level.
59:06
You have to be clinically insane, diagnosed with some sort of mental disorder, because
59:13
it's a lot.
59:14
It is corrupt.
59:15
It is corrupt on all sides.
59:16
And I've seen that there's so much manipulation.
59:19
There are so many strings being pulled and it's heartbreaking to see, it's demoralizing
59:25
to see, especially as a young person who truly believes that we live in the, I know that
59:32
we live in the greatest country on this planet.
59:35
To see our leaders be so theatrical, to see them vying for that sound bite that they can
59:43
post on their social media.
59:44
It's really sad.
59:45
So no, it's not a position that I want to be in.
59:48
Hopefully the issue is solved.
59:51
I'm not overly hopeful that it will be anytime soon.
59:55
But in the meantime, I'm fighting the fight.
59:57
I'm here.
59:58
I am, like I said, with a light heart and a smile on my face, doing my best to turn lemons
1:00:04
into lemonade.
1:00:07
Well, I'm going to pray for your endurance.
1:00:09
And there's more that we can say, but we could probably leave it there.
1:00:12
But that's all for me.
1:00:13
Is there anything else you want to get off your chest?
1:00:14
No, it's just very grateful, very grateful for you, the platform that you have been able
1:00:20
to build and develop the audience that you have.
1:00:24
It's really amazing.
1:00:25
So I'm just grateful.
1:00:27
I'm hoping that hopefully this was insightful and in some way encouraging to people who
1:00:37
maybe thought to themselves or think they're apolitical or someone who thinks, "Oh, you
1:00:42
know, I live in Oklahoma.
1:00:43
This will never happen here.
1:00:45
Nobody is immune to evil."
1:00:48
And that's what we're up against is evil.
1:00:51
So just grateful for you and your display of Christ speaking to Christ and his goodness,
1:00:58
his righteousness, his justness.
1:01:02
I don't know if justness is a word.
1:01:04
It works.
1:01:05
It works, doesn't it?
1:01:06
I'm not overly, you know, I pray for wisdom, but sometimes I'm like, "What am I even saying
1:01:10
at the time?"
1:01:13
But nonetheless, very grateful for you.
1:01:14
Well, hey, I'm glad you're in this fight.
1:01:16
I'm glad to be in the fight with you, Riley.
1:01:17
We'll talk again soon.
1:01:18
Let's do it, Kyle.
1:01:20
Thank you.
1:01:21
All right, guys.
1:01:22
I hope you enjoyed my time with Riley Gaines, but before we let you go, we are going to
1:01:24
do a quick resilience boost.
1:01:25
Adam Daunte's life or mission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
1:01:28
forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
1:01:31
So I've got a couple links for you today.
1:01:32
I've got a link to Riley's website so you can check out everything that she's doing
1:01:35
there.
1:01:36
And then I've got an Amazon link to her newest book, which is out now her only book, actually.
1:01:39
It's called Swimming Against the Current, Fighting for Common Sense in a World That's
1:01:43
Lost Its Mind.
1:01:45
Thank you for listening to this podcast.
1:01:46
Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate, and leave us a positive five-star
1:01:50
review.
1:01:51
If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an
1:01:53
email to info@undaunton.life.
1:01:56
That's I-N-F-O@undaunton.life.
1:01:57
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including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way.
1:02:04
Just go to www.undaunton.life.
1:02:06
And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for
1:02:10
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1:02:11
The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self-titled debut album
1:02:15
on Face Down Records.
1:02:16
The links are in the description.
1:02:18
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
1:02:20
Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
1:02:27
Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
1:02:48
in the future.
1:02:53
And as always, thanks for watching.
1:02:55
And as always, thanks for watching.
1:02:56
And as always, thanks for watching.
1:02:57
And as always, thanks for watching.
1:02:58
And as always, thanks for watching.
1:02:59
And as always, thanks for watching.
1:03:00
And as always, thanks for watching.