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1:00
This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
1:22
Let's get into it.
1:23
All right, guys, I am so excited to bring this one to you today because I've literally been like
1:28
nervous and giddy all day today. And I get nervous and giddy before interview sometimes.
1:32
But this one was a little bit different for whatever reason because I'm bringing to you
1:35
an interview with the goat, Hickson Gracie.
1:38
Okay, so this guy doesn't need a whole lot of intro. But for any of you guys who don't know who
1:42
this guy is, he is a ninth degree red belt in Gracie, Jiu Jitsu. He's the son of the godfather
1:46
of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Elio Gracie. And he's considered to be the greatest Gracie fighter ever.
1:51
So he's the Gracie family champion. That's why we named the episode what we did today. But
1:55
this guy is a bonafide pioneer in the sport of Jiu Jitsu and mixed martial arts. And so
2:00
obviously I talk about Jiu Jitsu all the time. I've been training myself for about four years.
2:04
And then mixed martial arts is one of my favorite sports and I've been watching it since I was a
2:07
little kid. But this guy was right there when all this was being formed with the family that
2:12
basically made mixed martial arts a thing. Okay, so this guy was an undefeated,
2:17
valetuto fighter. That was kind of what MMA was before MMA was even around. But he just released a
2:22
new book called breathe a life and flow. It's hit the New York Times bestseller list. So we were
2:26
able to speak a lot about the stuff he talked about in the book. Now the thing about this interview
2:30
is we didn't have a whole lot of time. And I told him off air, I said, look, I just want you
2:34
to be able to flow. I want you to, you know, no pun intended with the name of the book. But I
2:37
want you to be able to go in whatever direction you want to go in. Okay. So if I ask you a question
2:42
about this, you can answer that and flow into another story and go here or there. But guys,
2:45
we did get into the reason why the Gracie clan decided to go with hoist as the family representative
2:51
in the first UFC as opposed to Hixon, who at the time was the family champion. So we got right into
2:56
that. I was really, really excited about his answer to that. But also there was a really interesting
3:00
story about a guy that from Japan that came over and stormed his gym. Then there's this big famous
3:04
fight and you know, kind of what he's going to do with that video because that video has been
3:07
legendary because no one's seen it unless you have Gracie as your last name. But that video is going
3:12
to be released here soon. One thing I will tell you is to not listen to this one sped up. I know
3:17
I'm always begging you guys like, listen at one and a half time speed or two times speed or whatever.
3:21
But with this one, he's a very deliberate talker. You know, Portuguese is his first language in
3:25
English is a second. The audio isn't perfect. Again, we just kind of had to go with whatever we did
3:30
here. You know, we didn't have any video for this particular interview. Again, all we wanted to do
3:33
is make sure to bring this guy's wisdom and his stories to you. And so we would do that in the
3:38
best way possible. But again, it's not perfect audio. It's not going to be, you know, perfectly clean
3:42
and all that. And there's a lot of stuff we left out. Again, that's why I got to tell you guys go
3:46
pick up a copy of Breathe. Because you know, even on his interviews recently with Joe Rogan and
3:50
with Jocko Willink, they weren't even able to get into all the detail that was in this book. And
3:54
it's not a crazy long books like 250 pages or something like that. But so much great detail. But
3:59
guys, oh, without further ado, let's get into it. Hicks and Gracie. Welcome to Undaunted Life
4:05
of Man's podcast. Thank you, Kyle. Appreciate it. That's my pleasure.
4:10
Yeah, I'm so happy to talk to you. And like I told you, off air just now, I think there's a lot of
4:14
guys right now. They're very, very excited that we're getting to speak with you. But one of the
4:17
cool things about your life is you've gotten a lot of accolades. You've won a lot of trophies. You
4:22
won a lot of awards. But now you can add New York Times best-selling author to the list of accolades
4:28
that you've gotten in your life. Because you just released a book in August called Breathe,
4:32
A Life in Flow. So I guess from your perspective, Hicks, why write a memoir and why do that at this
4:38
point in your life? It was a great opportunity for me to make some extra money during the pandemics.
4:44
So I got an offer which I could not refuse. And then the idea of having a book is being
4:51
in my mind for a while because I have a good friend who's always explained to me how good
4:57
you would be to talk about my life. So this guy's feeling like why are we going to write the book?
5:02
So it's a whole time project who comes alive with the pandemics and I'm very happy to expose
5:10
myself this way. Well, I would say it was a fun read for me, especially since I felt like I knew
5:16
a lot about your life already. But there were so many details that I felt like I didn't didn't
5:21
know when I really enjoyed how you went into detail in the book. And one of the things that I really
5:26
enjoyed very from the very beginning was how Gracie Jujitsu came into being. Okay. And so, you know,
5:33
there's a lot of details to go into. So I'll kind of let you go into it. But obviously, it was brought
5:37
to Brazil by your family. And then it kind of expanded from there. But can you give us an idea
5:42
about how Gracie Jujitsu came into being? Yes. In the beginning of the century,
5:49
Korni Maeda Koma, which was Jujitsu champion and was touring around the world, displaying his
5:56
effectiveness. He ended up in Brazil and he loved the country and his factory thinking about settled
6:03
down in Brazil and become a manager of the immigration process, of the Japanese immigration
6:11
process for the mark of the zoo. And my grandfather was a scholar and good businessman at the time.
6:20
They become friends. And as I directed to Korni Koma, I asked my grandfather to bring his kids
6:30
for him to teach some self-defense and some Jujitsu. And then my uncle, Carlos, which is the oldest
6:36
of five brothers, start to learn with Korni Koma about Jujitsu. And after five years of
6:43
practice, he decided to relocate to Rio de Janeiro. So in 1925, the first Jujitsu academy in Brazil
6:52
was made. And since then, we've been involved with the martial arts, practice, and protocols,
7:00
in culture. And it was a great mix because Brazilians are very, very aggressive people.
7:10
The culture is very much more respect, show me what to get, that to move all the time.
7:16
So the Jujitsu practitioners has to deal with lack of respect and controversies and fights.
7:27
So we become very much comfortable and express our martial arts against all the martial arts.
7:35
To prove we are the best, more effective martial arts. So these confrontations brought to Jujitsu,
7:44
our evolutionary process, which goes towards the enemy, what the enemy may is today.
7:50
Lack of it, not that much moves, you can strike, you can fight on the ground, you can do whatever.
7:57
So the family is being involved with that kind of style for it. Since I know, since I remember
8:03
myself. And when I born, I born as a Gracie member, part of a clan. It was very exciting,
8:12
it was very much a different culture for us as a fighter, as a Gracie member. So I born
8:19
and raised an environment where I want to be a champion, I want to be a fighter, I want to represent
8:26
the family, I want to just think everything I can do to be the best representative I can be.
8:33
And in that way, I've been exposed to much pressure, to a lot of the scornful situations,
8:43
a lot of executed state of mind. You have to deal with it in a very open way, because
8:52
you're about to fight somebody who has no time limits, no way in visions, no rules.
8:58
So being able to be comfortable in this kind of unpredictable aspect, make anyone involved,
9:08
commit to grow, not only physically, and the practice of the sport, but also mentally,
9:13
to control emotions and stresses, and also spiritually to know how to surrender and be able to give
9:22
yourself fully up to, you know, up to that, if it's the case. So when you prepare yourself to be
9:31
in a Gracie, you face a lot of families, a lot of stress, a lot of challenges. And I very much
9:39
improvising way, I could deal with my stresses and my situations, which I talk about in the book,
9:46
which was just to grow, which to get the better approach to be comfortable in hell. So that's
9:54
pretty much what I had to do all my life. And in this process, I felt like I grew a lot,
10:02
not only physically and technically, but also mentally, emotionally, and also spiritually.
10:08
So Jujitsu Pia joined me when I involved as a man. And even though I'm not perfect, even though I
10:18
make a lot of mistakes within my life, I use those mistakes to grow and to become the most
10:26
perfect expression of what's the Jujitsu culture can bring as a beneficial aspect for the practitioners.
10:34
Yeah, that's great. I feel like that gives us a lot of stuff to work off of here, because,
10:38
you know, you talked about how you came from a fighting family. And in the book, you talk about
10:42
how, you know, the Gracie's aren't big people, you know, physical, Viking type people. And this was
10:46
kind of an art made for a smaller, perhaps weaker person to be able to take advantage of
10:51
and control a larger person. But you mentioned there wanting to become, you know, the greatest
10:55
Gracie, you know, the Gracie family champion. And, you know, in the book, you talk about how
10:59
your brother holes was a great athlete, but, you know, a stubborn and a bit unmanageable.
11:03
But at a certain point, you realize that you had the physical and mental attributes
11:08
to become the greatest of the Gracie clan. And you detail in the book, I loved how you
11:12
discussed this about when you're at the brown belt level, and then you rolled with holes and
11:16
you beat him. And I specifically want to read a couple of quotes from your book here that I found
11:20
especially important. And once this, what I remember most about that fight was the sadness I felt
11:25
afterwards, as though I had made a mistake by beating him, a huge, but invisible weight of
11:30
responsibility had shifted from holes, shoulders to mind. In my heart, I knew that I was now a
11:35
better fighter, but worse. So did he, it wasn't luck or a fluke, holes just couldn't surprise me
11:40
anymore. I also realized that I would never have to beat him again to prove it. And then later on,
11:46
I know we're skipping a lot here, but that's why you have to go get the book because the book has
11:49
all these great details. But you talked about, you know, how you found out that holes had been
11:53
killed in an accident, you were on the phone, and said you receive the news over the phone. And it
11:57
took you only a few seconds to know that my life would never be the same. Not only had I lost my
12:02
idol, a teacher, and my favorite brother, but I was now the official family champion. Now I would
12:08
have to answer all the challenges and lead the next generation of Gracie fighters. I was now the
12:13
last in line of defense for the Gracie family. So explain this to someone like me who doesn't
12:18
have kind of that great family name. I've never had to, you know, defend the Thompson family honor.
12:24
Explain that to us and explain that to our listeners, what that was like when you realized
12:28
that you had become the Gracie family champion. Yes. I mean, we all can be to your training
12:35
how you all practice basically, baby basis with some speech. But you know, at one point we have
12:44
a ranking. So all the time in my life, even when I was keen, I saw my brother strand in my cousins
12:50
to establish who is the best one among us. And he was always a champion before it was
12:56
Carson and then Holmes. And then I was seeking my brother's footsteps to become like him or even
13:04
better than him in a very natural and humble way. I never tried to pick holes from his seat,
13:11
but I tried to be the best supporter I can do to him. Because the number one representative of the
13:18
family has this compromise to represent the family. Regardless who is going to fight the
13:25
youth, the size of the guy, the moves and the math. So it's very unpredictable, but it's very,
13:31
I don't say crazy, but it's very much something you can expect anything to have to be completely
13:40
fully complete and accepting anything because you're not there to quit. You're there to fight and
13:46
expect somebody to the tower in case you get hurt because you're not there to quit or to quit. So
13:54
it's a very heavy pressure. And based on that pressure, I embrace my practice and I always have
14:04
calls ahead of me. When he passed away, I felt like immediately I'm the guy to be called against
14:12
something that gets wrong, but it's some kind of weird guy to fight. Whatever happened, I'm the
14:18
number one in the front line. So that's given a completely different responsibility.
14:24
My journey. And based on that, the increase of the pressure, the increase of the stress,
14:34
the increase of the tension, maybe you rely on different sources to cope with that situation,
14:44
to give me better sense of comfort, secure state of mind and acceptance. So my growth has to be
14:55
completely balanced between my practice, physical, my emotional and mental to make strategies to make
15:03
these organizations that search. And also in the spiritual level, which I can add patience,
15:09
add hope, add faith, add surrender to able to handle everything. So the process of growing
15:17
is based on the stress in facing. And I was dealing with a lot of stress in very phases.
15:25
And I had to be confident in that kind of situation. So I start to find myself solutions for my own
15:32
problems and start to grow from that and feel very much happy with the outcome of my practice.
15:40
When I think that's very important, because you know, you had your first professional fight at the
15:44
age of 19, and you're fighting this huge guy, 230 pound monster named King Zulu. And you talk
15:50
about in your book, you know, how, you know, fear is not an enemy, but it's a self protection mechanism.
15:55
And you have to be able to manage that and change it. But that really kind of led through until
16:01
the late 80s. I know we're kind of skipping ahead here because we don't have all the time in the
16:04
world. But you know, it's all there in the book guys. But in the late 80s, a lot of gracies,
16:08
including yourself move to America, you began to make names for yourselves, especially considering,
16:12
you know, the underground popularity of the Gracie and action videos that we're circulating all
16:16
over the country and which are legendary now. But the Gracie name and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu really
16:22
exploded on the scene in November of 1993 at the ultimate fighting championship one, the UFC one.
16:28
And here's the thing, you're the family champion at this point, but you were not chosen to represent
16:34
the family in the first UFC tournament. Your younger brother, Joyce was, and at the time,
16:39
Joyce had zero valetuto fights. And maybe you can give us a little bit of an idea of the
16:43
difference between valetuto and then, you know, modern MMA. But he had zero major Jiu Jitsu titles,
16:48
but he was chosen anyway. And there's been a lot of rumors. I know you've talked about it before,
16:53
but what was what was the real reason why you as a family champion did not represent Gracie
17:00
Jiu Jitsu at the first UFC and why was Royce picked? Yes. At this time, I come to US in 1989,
17:08
too. I believe in the US before to help party, seminars and stuff. But in the main line, I come
17:14
to move here and leave here permanently. And since then, I start working with Harlem towards
17:21
increasing the number of students, increasing the defense for seminars and law enforcement
17:28
practice and helping him and Mary think I could. And we work for a lot of together,
17:38
but we become incompatible to work together because Harlem was a very hard time to deal
17:47
with those professionals. So we are not exactly 100%
17:54
best relationship at the time of the UFC. And he felt like keeping Royce
18:00
as a fighter to represent. We will be a good deal for two reasons. One, he still had Royce
18:10
under control. Second, I couldn't represent the family in case Royce was lost for any reason.
18:18
I always can combine him in reinforcing our legacy. So he felt comfortable to put Royce
18:27
because he was keeping me away from the getting absolutely famous or a glow under his wing because
18:34
at this point, I was not working for him anymore. So he felt like he was safe for him to keep Royce
18:41
under his wing and fight in the UFC. And of course, if Royce lost the evening, he had the second
18:48
day in Japan. Everything went well for Royce at the time. And then a couple of years after,
18:56
I was finding myself fighting in Japan to begin my career in Japan. And since then, I beat my
19:03
career in Japan, like the UFC role in a different role. At the beginning of the UFC,
19:09
the rules are completely open. So it was not exactly a big smash lads event yet because each
19:17
fighter represents his own style. So jujitsu against wrestlers, against judo players,
19:23
against bosses, against sumo wrestlers. But nobody has the idea yet to combine training,
19:30
to make strains like the wrestler. Today, he trains striking the training submissions.
19:37
The jujitsu tradition, he trains strike, he trains wrestling. They strike and he trains
19:43
jujitsu and trains that. So we are training cross-training now to be capable to handle better
19:49
on the MMA fights now. But before, let's just style this style. That's why jujitsu was so
19:57
superior at the time because jujitsu embraces a little bit of everything from the beginning.
20:03
And boxing is completely on strike. Wrestling is only throwing and controlling the position,
20:10
but most of the nations know strike. So all the other sports has little flaws in terms of
20:15
preparation for a free engagement. Jujitsu and otherwise, as already, this kind of offered
20:23
the ability to deal. And a free style, regardless if you use D, if you're not using D, if you punch
20:30
and if you're using headbuds. So it was comfortable for us at the moment. And a much more,
20:36
much more comfortable with a lot of styles. So at the beginning, jujitsu just kick ass and just
20:44
completely in control of this scenario. Now, everybody knows jujitsu. Now everybody knows
20:52
wrestling. Now everybody knows what and because more like an entertainment sport.
20:57
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's much different now. And when you go and watch those early
21:01
valetuto fights, it's just a very different type of sport. And knowing that the buzzer isn't
21:06
going to go off at the five minute mark is it changes things quite a bit. But as we look at
21:10
your career in 1994, you were invited to compete in the Japan valetuto open, which you won easily.
21:15
And then you did that again in 1995. And that was kind of the subject matter of the very
21:20
legendary documentary choke, which is one of the most legendary of not the most legendary
21:24
MMA documentary there is out there. So I highly encourage guys to go watch it. But there's a famous
21:29
kind of happening in your life that happened in between the 94 and the 95 valetuto's in Japan.
21:34
After the 94 valetuto, a famous Japanese pro wrestler named Takata, he challenged you to a fight.
21:40
Okay, so Takata went to the press and said that you were ducking him and that you wouldn't fight
21:44
him. And you responded by saying basically you don't do fixed fights, which was, you know,
21:48
a very common thing in Japan at that time. But then Takata's protege, kind of this bad guy named
21:53
Yoji Anjo, he announced that he was going to come to America and fight you to the death.
21:58
And I mean, obviously you weren't very worried about that. You didn't really think much of it.
22:01
But actually on December the 7th of 1994, so this is after the valetuto, especially,
22:05
you know, it was on the 53rd anniversary of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, no less.
22:08
You got a call when you're at your house that Anjo was at your gym. And their referee was
22:13
there and there was about a dozen Japanese reporters there. And they were demanding to see you because
22:18
Anjo wanted to fight you. So I just wanted to set up the story because I love this story.
22:22
But go ahead and take it from there. Yes. And like you said, wrestling in Japan was huge.
22:31
And the Japanese, the wrestlers, they have the same or even more prestige than the real fighters.
22:39
If you've got to leave it through the chamber and you've got the pro wrestler, the most famous
22:43
pro wrestler, they will pick the pro wrestler in all ways, even to win fights or be in the most popular.
22:50
So when I refused to fight Takata because he makes few fights, immediately they changed the
22:58
game and said, okay, if you want to fight, if you don't want to fight Takata, I'm going to
23:04
go to your place in your science and I'm going to break your face. I'm going to show you
23:09
YouTube. And I said to him, okay, if you want to come, you can come in town because I'm ready
23:16
to protect myself. I just not going to fight you in your environment in your service because
23:22
that's not going to give me, I'm not going to have nothing of prestige or reputation in my record.
23:28
So a couple months past and I received the call and I immediately noticed was a relationship between
23:38
the cold and somebody to fight me. I needed to protect the idea of somebody's got to fight me.
23:44
So I came in my car with my son and I started taking my hands before I arrived in the freeway.
23:52
I was already taking my hands because I like to use bare food, bare hands, and we used to take
23:59
a little more protection to punch. So when I arrived in my place, it was a old school and it's like
24:06
behind the alley. Soon I get with my car into the parking lot. I saw a van full of reporters,
24:14
Japanese reporters. So I keep going through a walk here and I saw a couple,
24:21
a very tall Japanese guy, very well dressed, and a lady. So the guy introduced himself as the
24:30
president of the UFO, which is the biggest wrestling association, focused the greatest under pressure.
24:37
I come here to see if you can, I want to invite you to fight in Japan. I said yes, I know that
24:46
and I told you I'm going to fight in Japan because it fights fights. And then he said yeah, but I'm
24:51
also set in fight for free at your academy. So yes, that's what I'm here for. I'm expecting you to come
24:58
as a pilot. He said no, no, but the fighting is out there outside. Can I call him? I said yes,
25:05
you can call him. As he said, as he sent the lady to call the pilot. I saw my students keep on the
25:12
door and don't let him compress because I saw the class. So I said let the fighter come here,
25:18
let's the lady come here, but keep the class outside the building because I don't know what's
25:23
gonna happen. I don't I don't want to just report everything. So the Japanese come in and I need
25:31
the consent, give him a waiver to sign like that. A waiver in case he got hurt, like that's a very
25:37
common liability process in the US. So I give him the waiver and he looked at the waiver and he
25:44
started to discuss with the his friend, president said that, a little in Japanese. And then the
25:50
president coming to me and said, Mr. Grace, you mean, if you don't, if you don't sign the paper,
25:56
you're not gonna fight? Immediately I saw some kind of malice and the way he said that. And if I
26:03
say yes, he has to sign, he may want to leave and say any sheet he can say because I give the excuse
26:11
for him to say, okay, I be there. He's not gonna. So I will give him the leverage for him to argue.
26:18
I was afraid of what I said. I say, and then I said, okay, forget the paper, get the paper from
26:23
his hand, throw away and said, you've got to get to fight. Let's fight. Again, we open a circle,
26:30
the dojo, and he's already on the middle of the circle. And we start to fight. And I felt by his
26:38
approach, he was intent to really hurt him with a punch, but his position, you need me to understand
26:45
he want to strike me. So I made myself a little dummy and allowed him to punch you. So when I,
26:53
when he tried, I deflected, grab him and a very good grip and throw him on the floor
27:00
and mount immediately on top of him and start to hit him. And he turns back. In a normal situation
27:08
when the opponent stands back, I go immediately for the choke and put him to sleep. But it was not
27:15
the case because if I choke him, I'm concerned and don't show he's hurt. When you wake up, you
27:23
can say anything, you can say, you can say whatever. So I have to keep striking him even when he
27:30
starts back. And force him to turn facely again, start to punch him, using my elbows. I throw his nose
27:38
and make him space, dragging damage and very breathing. So and then he turn it back again,
27:44
my back, and I'm choking again. I mean, not again, but for the first time and putting him to sleep
27:50
finally. And as he's sleeping, I told, I told my students to allow the reporters to come in to the
27:57
door. So the Japanese press came in and started taking pictures. And the president of the
28:04
Federation tried to protect his face from showing the blood and stuff. And then we tell them to
28:11
get, don't cover his face, show him to the press. The press made pictures of him and show what happened.
28:20
And a couple of days later, he went back to my student lunch, went back with a samurai helmet
28:28
as a gift for me and told me he was apologizing for the lack of respect. He was completely
28:37
feeling bad about it, but he has to do it. And he shows respect and he left. A couple of weeks later,
28:47
I got from Japan coming to me as my agent in Japan before. I want you to start talking
28:53
bad things about it before he got jumped in the academy. He was holding for me and get beat.
29:01
So because I have my cameras filming the day of the fight, I was able to send a partner of the
29:09
VHS to Japan to just show to the press. No clock is made and go returning to me. So the press was
29:18
weakness. It's all cool. Everything was hand-to-hand, no junkie, no other guys in the field. And that's
29:26
kind of give my reputation to Japan. I like a couple of steps up. An idea recognized as a guy who
29:34
you had to take by the book and the Japanese fans even respect, even more after that. And I
29:40
continue my career after that. Yeah, absolutely. You talked a lot about kind of the Bushido and
29:45
samurai culture over there, but you mentioned the video. And I know I'm probably the millionth
29:49
person to ask you about this. But when are you going to let us see the video, Hixen? Come on now.
29:54
Like some of us got to be able to see this video at some point. That's you. That's you coming very
29:59
soon because I plan to release the video. Okay, very good. Well, we will certainly be on the lookout
30:07
for that. So obviously you mentioned that you had a long career and a good career there in Japan,
30:12
but you never fought in America. And some people kind of giving you some crap about that that you
30:16
never fought the best American fighters at that time. So, you know, the names like Mark Kerr
30:21
or Mark Coleman or Don Fry or those types of guys. So I kind of have kind of a two part question here
30:26
for you. How do you feel like you would have done against those kind of big, you know,
30:30
steroided up, you know, wrestling types, kind of forward pressure types? And then also right now,
30:36
if you were in your physical prime right now and you were able to fight with current UFC fighters,
30:41
who would be some guys that you would want to fight with now? So how do you think you would
30:44
have done against those old school guys that were there at your time? And then right now,
30:47
how do you think you would do against some of the best in the UFC? Yes. So first of all,
30:54
when you're thinking about the big wrestlers, I was impressed. One time I was in home and my
31:03
friend Fabio Gugel, he's a playing partner and a guy, a two, zero, three, six, representative.
31:08
He fought Mark Kerr in the zoo and I hate men's tournament. And they play semi-detect because
31:15
we cannot see like anything was not like that. So they send me a Ph.S. to see this eight men's
31:21
tournament where Fabio Gugel fought the final match with Mark Kerr. And Fabio stays in the
31:28
guard, getting punished by Mark Kerr for the whole fight and he lost the fight.
31:35
And I saw that I get very impressed with the size, the position, the structure. And for me,
31:46
it was always something which I had to do with the surprise like I'm the next one in one. So I
31:51
was immediately after I saw this fight that I saw myself fighting Mark Kerr in the next few months
31:57
was the case. So I get really impressed by the positions I saw based on his power.
32:07
So the first thing I did is get my son, my older son Hudson. We've had the time 12 years old
32:14
about meeting one, one ten hundred, one ten hundred pounds, like very light key, very skinny.
32:20
I said Hudson, please come here to help the night to help me. So I went to the garage on my mask,
32:26
putting him laid down. And you start in a very soft way, in a very nice way.
32:31
Finding myself in the same angles Mark Kerr was in, I guess, a fabulous job. And based on my angles,
32:41
my size bigger than Hudson, I started to put Hudson in comfortable positions,
32:48
the Hudson lifted your hip a little more, tried to use your knee here. So to see if he was able to
32:54
find leverage in angles, to get comfortable against the angles, I saw Mark getting flipped
33:00
on father. And after this, about after maybe half hour, 50 minutes, I was completely convinced
33:09
if I use this strategy, I just show Hudson I could deal with Mark Kerr. And after that day,
33:15
I felt like comfortable. If I had to fight Mark Kerr, I was not sure if I want to win or not. But
33:20
at least I have a game brand which is very, is very is immutable, is very much make a lot of sense
33:28
for me. And give me the sense which I find equalizers for my power against his power,
33:35
my techniques against his technique. So I was happy to be able to try, even though I'm not sure,
33:41
I was confident I couldn't beat the guy. So if this being said, the fight never happened because
33:48
in Japan, I was very big in Japan. In Japan, the Japanese don't have like to fill up a bucket of
33:58
domic 70,000 people. I cannot fight some for them. So two foreigners in Japan is not going to fill out
34:04
a big house. So as always, I had to always fight a big job of these famous guys in order to make
34:12
the return as a business aspect for the guys, for the business. So I fight whoever they pointed
34:20
at me, because for me, I was a professional. But on the other hand, I was ready to fight
34:25
in the rest of the time. Feather was a very tough guy. Mark home, Tom Harrison. Also, I mean,
34:37
a bunch of those stuff guys, which are very tough, but they don't have the audience they needed to
34:45
make a huge fight in Japan. So in other words, it was never appropriate for you to fight against
34:55
those tough guys. And back to today's modern MMA, I see so many good guys, you know, so many
35:05
complete fighters, especially in this kind of short five minutes lounge where they have their gas
35:12
and the capacity to spin on nights. And when they start to get tired, they have their
35:18
the bomb and they can rest a little bit, go back. So three rounds, five minutes or five rounds, five
35:26
minutes is very, very good to be manageable for an athlete, for a tough guy. When you put the fight
35:34
with no time units, it's completely different because you need this for a one strategic fight,
35:40
because you cannot just spin wheels and burn gas because you want to get tired. And then if you
35:45
die, you cannot recall that you've got deep water. So if your moves should make a difference, make
35:55
more like entertainment, explosive, violent show, doesn't have the defensive aspect, doesn't have
36:03
the techniques, the doodles of the fighters, the capacity to solve is a completely different game.
36:11
And I feel like so many tough guys out there to fight. If I was in top shape today, if I was
36:21
let's say, ready to go today, one thing I don't want at this fight on the UFC move,
36:29
I will break the audience and break the situation to make them like I will fight the heavyweight,
36:40
like, let's say, let's say any good heavyweight, but no time limits, no rules, and that's will be
36:52
I'd be more confident. If I had to fight the UFC rules today, I don't believe I could be pulled
36:59
around because there's too many restrictions for what I believe is my survival goal, too many
37:08
restrictions for the technical, the patience, explore the weakness of my opponents. And it's
37:14
too fast, it's too explosive, no time for the guy to get tired, no time for him to make mistakes.
37:20
So it becomes very confused. Even in the same weight division today, it's a big problem because
37:28
if I walk around with 80 heroes, I fight the individual with 65. So I have an inclusion problem,
37:36
I have to congratulate myself, I have to keep myself barely close to that. And then I make the
37:42
weight and then I have 24 hours to recoup myself. I want to fight because they have problems to do
37:48
that, they go to the hospital. So the rules today, the setups today are made to make a more
37:55
entertainment than actually a fight. And this way, I could never have a few perfect fights in the
38:04
UFC. Right, absolutely. No, that would be, that would be very cool to see you fight like, you know,
38:10
Cyril Ghan or Francesin Ghanu in a no time limit type of fight. I would love to see something like
38:15
that. Obviously that could happen in modern day. But I did want to talk to you as well about what
38:19
you're doing now. And so you're obviously doing seminars, you've been doing seminars for a while.
38:24
But I want you to talk a little bit about the fact and you spend a lot of time on this in the book
38:28
about how jujitsu in general has moved more towards sport jujitsu and away from kind of this
38:34
self-defense jujitsu aspect and how people can just train jujitsu without ever doing a fight,
38:40
you know, something valetuto or even something in the street or something in the gym.
38:44
And that's something that you're wanting to change. You're wanting to kind of get it
38:48
a farther away from sport jujitsu and back to kind of the original Gracie jujitsu style. So
38:53
I guess why do you want to do that? And then how are you going about trying to make that change?
38:57
Yes, I felt like I learned all my life how to deal with Russia, how to try to
39:04
strategize against opponents and being pixeled by emotions. So that kind of deal for me is turn
39:14
sense being on the back is completely related to life itself. So when I see today
39:22
the sport jujitsu is really against for a very small percentage of the community. But
39:33
in order for the team to engage yourself in a jujitsu school today, you start to practice
39:39
from day one how to pass a guy and every guy who is going to defend it is like a sweet drink
39:44
or a drink or a drink or a drink. So the confrontation is not something comfortable,
39:50
it's not something for everyone. So if you start to deal in a jujitsu sport,
39:55
you have to have the competitors, you have to have the desire to fight. You have to have
40:03
the capacity to be resilient, you have to suffer, you have to feel pain, you have to put eyes,
40:09
you have to stay, you have to you know to do everything which not exactly demands a learning
40:16
process but demands you use all you got and sometimes people get a little short of them.
40:22
If I'm working computers, I'm an artist, I'm an artist, I'm not an athlete but I love to learn
40:29
about jujitsu. So in that case, I start to realize in my growth process, I not only have to grow
40:38
technically, I not only have to grow physically but also I have to grow mental in terms of
40:46
strategies and visualizations but also I have to grow spiritually because you have to feel good
40:54
about for example, it's very different between the patient and the passive. When you pass it,
41:02
you lost opportunities, lack of a principle. When you patience, you wait right for the perfect moment
41:09
to act. So like a lion on the bush waiting for a drinking decision, especially waiting against
41:15
the wind to the moment you make it. So patience is a virtue. All is a virtue. Fade is a virtue.
41:25
So as a warrior, I start to grow not only as a fighting warrior but also as a spiritual warrior
41:33
because I had to control my mind. And today I see in my average for 95% of the community,
41:41
we all need fights, different kinds of fights. Sometimes you fight depression, sometimes you fight
41:48
anxiety, sometimes you fight COVID, sometimes you fight lack of money, bad relationships. So
41:56
it's a lot of situations to progress, to demoralize you, to diminish you. So in the opponent,
42:05
sometimes it's not exactly a physical guy, a black guy who strikes a killing on the mat.
42:10
But in the guy who's just, you know, he received the opponent to email, he received a bad message
42:17
to email. He was depressed to attack your heart, attack your mind. So that's why I called it my
42:25
group read because from breathing process, I learned how to achieve the deepest parts of myself,
42:31
how to be in control. Because something very interesting about breathing is you have your brain
42:38
and you have your heart, which are the only organs in your body to give and receive information.
42:45
So in order for you to be connected, deeply with your brain and with your heart, you have to use
42:52
the lungs, the lungs at the facility table. By breathing properly, you cannot really feed your heart
42:58
to be hyperventilated and able to handle stress longer and run forever, swing forever, go under
43:05
waterfall. So you control your emotions through your heart, through your lungs, also depression
43:13
and sighted suicidal thoughts. Whenever you feel mentally, you can also be assessing that kind
43:23
of layer of your brain with your breathing in start to stabilize yourself and are much more
43:28
confident. So breathing acts to the athlete, to the spiritual, to the mental, to the
43:35
strategical, any aspect to breathing who can access yourself in a deeper layer. So I felt after all
43:44
this process, today, for example, if you are, I cannot produce you just like I used to because
43:49
I have made me drink this, I cannot serve the way I like you. So physically, I need to bear
43:57
to a level where I can live happy, but I cannot do a lot of stress on my body.
44:04
But mentally, I never use so much jiu jitsu than I used to be because I can visualize my
44:10
steps for problems, I can strategize my life better, I can have a better emotional control,
44:17
I can have a peace in mind, I can see that you, I can be able to spiritually stretch myself to
44:27
a set in bed, and a comfortable way to a set, you know, the problems which can happen in life,
44:36
and a much more approachable and comfortable way. So today, I'm leaving my jiu jitsu as never before,
44:44
but not the physical part. So that's why I felt like, is my commitment today to be able to like
44:51
people, how much jiu jitsu and a good sense of learning how to breathe, learning your pace,
44:58
learning your leverage, learning your empowerment, without being the confrontation, because when
45:04
you put yourself to confront somebody, you're breaking ego, you're breaking disappointment,
45:11
you're breaking frustration, because you never know if you're going to win or lose,
45:16
and if you win, you win away to become a champion. If you lose, you have to deal with the depression,
45:22
the hurts, whatever, it's not confident. So we can skip this part, and if I give somebody
45:30
this week, today, or a child, I'm not going to start by learning, by teaching him how to compete,
45:36
I will touch him, I will start by teaching him how to breathe, how to feel being visible power he has,
45:44
like pains, like angles, like levels, like distance, like breathing properly,
45:50
so he will learn how to feel more confident, even though he's not exposed to a fight itself,
45:56
because I will prove him if he's in the right angle, he can really avoid my path, my push, my
46:04
punch, my hug, my grabbing the headwalk, so he's going to be confident that he's accepting and
46:11
understanding the mechanics, the leverage, the techniques, and eventually he's such a breathing,
46:17
properly he's such a fork in his head, mindset, and eventually he want to feel like the best he can be
46:26
regardless if you compete or not, regardless if he's a good fighter or not, because I feel like
46:31
she's if he's there to not only enhance the fighter's life, but also to enhance the community's life,
46:38
because for me, even in the sense of humanizing people, because today what brought this technology,
46:48
internet, dehumanizing it, put it in the front of a computer, put it in the front of a cell phone,
46:54
and from that view, you be whatever you want, you talk with whatever you want, you express yourself
47:01
in the most beautiful way you can express, because you have control of the machine, but when he talks
47:08
about shaking hands, people in the eye, ask for a job, get a girlfriend, you need to be present,
47:14
you need to be human, you have to feel the breath, you have to feel the sweat, so just for the sake
47:20
of humanizing, putting on doctors or breathing, with a sense of response that reflects, just for
47:27
the sake of humanizing, this is a huge bit of a piece of aspect, so you just have so much to give
47:34
regardless of the competitiveness, regardless of the fight aspect, then I'm now passionate about
47:41
offering to the major part of the community, otherwise never going to fight jiu jitsu, because
47:47
it can be for the first week of a regular training, I start to find a road where the community can
47:53
enjoy this soft aspect of jiu jitsu and become more present, become more human, become more
48:01
connected with their own capabilities, they may feel weak, muscular, but they feel strong,
48:10
connected, leverage-wise, so this very official aspect, I just start to reinvent, I just start
48:17
to bring it back to the community, then start to do my what I found big so bad academy, start to
48:25
offer to the public, this kind of sensitive aspect of it, because you should develop your
48:32
sensorial element, and just by having this developed, you don't have to become a fighter to be a much
48:40
better champion. All right, I love that answer, I love that you went into all that detail, and I
48:45
know we're running up against time, so I'm gonna get you my last question here, so I've been training
48:49
jiu jitsu in the ghee for about four years, so I'm a blue belt, which means I'm not completely
48:53
worthless, but I'm not very dangerous, right? I'm just working my way through, and so what is your
48:59
advice specifically for someone in my position, someone who's a blue belt that is not just satisfied
49:04
with blue belt, but wants to continue to develop and move forward, and then what are some of the
49:08
biggest mistakes you see people make when they're training jiu jitsu for themselves? Yes, first,
49:14
now I'm scared of you, I know now you're blue belt, so I want you to respect. Thank you, so I feel like
49:24
jiu jitsu's got to favor your personality, your way to be, for some people they get too aggressive
49:32
naturally, so they will learn from jiu jitsu how to mellow down to be more sensitive into this
49:37
situation, some other guys are very, very mellow, very passive, very much almost too passive,
49:47
so they have to learn how to energize their body, be responsive or quality to their hands,
49:52
answer their movements, be more timely, so jiu jitsu can improve you regardless your personality or your
50:01
character, but the sense where jiu jitsu has to be a very much part of your life is when you start
50:11
to use jiu jitsu, and somehow in a way for you to know yourself, so the first important thing
50:22
my advice is as in practice, try to breathe upon you, try to feel confident in your breath,
50:29
not get comfortable for you, not get bent, not get repulsive and explosive to the point
50:35
you want for 12, what you're doing, you just want to do something, so become more humble in terms of
50:41
you should get caught in a comfortable position, don't be shy to the work or to back up,
50:47
you don't have to resist, it's not, you're not finding your ego to resist to the last,
50:54
to the pain happens, so you want to be sensitive to the problems and start to understand
50:59
like a chess game when you get a checkmate, when you're about to get checked, so when you should
51:05
move, so become more knowledgeable about your possibilities, your resting positions, your position
51:11
to have control, because the science, when you start to learn about not only you, but the element
51:18
of your opponent emotionally, physically, so all this is, you know, it's a way for you to develop
51:27
your knowledge about yourself, so you're not there to fight your opponent, you have to win all the time,
51:33
you have to be comfortable, you know, call for the situation, you have to be practicing to,
51:40
to create a better capacity to, to, to play with your brain and play with your body almost
51:47
connected at the same time, you're not thinking more, you don't reflect how to survive, how to get
51:53
captured and stay from the opponent, so my recommendation in the final sentence is to be
52:01
completely relaxed about the pressure completely rounded about the defeats, and you start to be
52:12
very curious about what you should do next, what's your next movement, what you should
52:17
done to not fail, and that way you take our responsibilities from the shoulder and put their
52:23
responsibilities, because you should suppose to have the answer for you, you cannot, you might
52:29
be able to just come in with the answer yourself, so be relaxed, be comfortable, start to be very
52:36
curious about details and positions, and eventually when I have a purple bell, very soon, brown bell,
52:43
and then we'll have your black belt for sure. All right, one of these days, I hope I get there
52:48
before the body breaks down, but Hixon, thank you so much for going into all the detail in all
52:51
these different areas, but that's all for me, is there anything else you want to get off your chest?
52:55
No, my brother, I really appreciate your help and about talking about the book, I'm very happy
53:01
with the situation, I mean, right now, because I'm motivated to bring a new layer of information
53:08
to the community, how to win another fight. So that's pretty much my thank you to you, and I appreciate
53:18
and I'll see you on the map very soon. All right, Hixon Gracie, thank you for coming on
53:25
Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. Thank you, guys, have a great one, God bless.
53:29
All right, there you go, guys, I hope you enjoyed my interview with Hixon Gracie, we are so grateful
53:34
that we got to spend a little bit of time with him, but before we let you go, we are going to do a
53:37
quick resilience boost at Undaunted Life. Our mission is equipping men to push back darkness,
53:41
and specifically, we do that by providing you content like this podcast, it helps you for spiritual
53:45
mental and physical resilience. So here are the links I've got for you today, I've got a link to
53:48
the book, breathe a life and flow, the New York Times bestseller, and also link to Hixon Gracie's
53:53
website. All right, guys, thanks so much for listening to this podcast, we do appreciate it,
53:56
wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and review. If you want to come speak live
54:00
at your event or on your podcast, you shoot me an email to info@Undaunted.life, that's i-n-f-o
54:04
@Undaunted.life. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok, and like us on Facebook, and you can check out
54:08
our website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming
54:12
your way. Just go to www.Undaunted.life, and we want to also thank the band August Burns Red
54:17
for allowing us to use their music for our content. The Entorato track on this podcast is
54:21
our song "Cutting the Ties," which is author 10th anniversary re-recording of their album
54:24
Leveler. The links are in the description. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back
54:30
darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Keep seeking the line of Judah.
55:00
[Music]