All right, Joby, we're here in your digs. Uh we are here for saturated. I think everyone's pretty well aware of that at this point. We've uh we're at the halfway mark of saturated, so it's been uh pretty incredible. But um obviously if you're listening to this on time, guys, this is a couple of days after an assassination that kind of reminded me this morning of like your grandparents or my grandparents will tell me where they were when JFK was assassinated, where they were when Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated. And that's what it feels like with the assassination of Charlie Kirk. And this morning, uh, Donald Trump announced and, uh, law enforcement announced that they found the killer, 22-year-old college student. >> Mhm. >> Um, and, you know, this isn't a news podcast, so y'all can go to the news and, you know, get the kid's name and background, all the different things. But a lot of people have been asking you and I for our reaction to this and have kind of been waiting for some sort of reaction. I think the people that were watching saturated night one were surprised to see you get up there at the beginning and give three or four minutes on kind of how we should all feel about that because it was it was more than an elephant in the room, but it's something you had to address. Your son JP even encourage you to do so. But man, there's there's anger, there's sadness, there's tremendous confusion. I've had more than one person. There was a gal I mentioned the other day. Um, I'm getting walked back to my seat because y'all had security on me that that first night and security on my wife and you know, this woman comes up who's a fan of Undaunted Life and her and her husband listen to the show and she started just basically saying how much she enjoys the show and then she starts basically crying and she's like, "I'm just so sad for y'all. I'm so scared for y'all." And you know, Kelsey and I have talked about before, Joby, how uh, you know, one of these days, one of these things I might say on stage or into a microphone might land me in jail, but you don't really think about, you know, being in a polite discourse and it ending with, you know, your throat being opened up by a 30 out sex bullet. And so, just your initial thoughts and then, uh, I know you and I both have a lot of thoughts on this, but even just your initial thoughts. Yeah, I would say the only reason my thoughts matter at all is because I there are some people especially here at this church and then through deep in podcast and the people that that listen online, the only reason my thoughts matter is cuz God has called me to be a shepherd to shepherd people, you know, and I'm not everybody's pastor that listens to this. So, uh, one of the things that I think strange in our society is that everybody just thinks their thoughts are worthwhile. Like their opinions and their reactions, they just put them all over online, you know? And so, >> the only reason I'm doing this is cuz you asked me to. I did not volunteer to just sit down and look at a camera and say, "Here's all the things I'm thinking." >> Yeah. I called you yesterday in the middle of the afternoon cuz I was like, I just can't. Like, we just got to stop the spiral somehow. So, and then the reason I started off saturated that way is cuz I'm trying to shepherd a people that God has called me to. So, man, all kind of thoughts. I my my first thought just goes to his family, to his wife, and to his kids. And, you know, you kind of put yourself there. I mean, I I just how sad is that for her? U Melania said it really well and it's really sad. And she was like, "His kids will now only grow up with pictures instead of memories and experiences." Think about that. Only videos of that's who my dad was as opposed to >> getting to to know their dad. And so, >> you know, it's a big old mix of emotion. I think John 11 helps us a lot when Jesus shows up to the before he gets to the tomb of Lazarus, he shows up to the home of Mary Martha in Bethany. And you see all kind of emotions welling up in Jesus. So, it's a very appropriate thing to be sad and mad and confused, all of that together. So, in as much as sharing those things with people that are close to you are helpful for you to process, I think that's very important. >> And I'll say for where we're at right now, you know, guys, at this point, I think most people seen the video. If you haven't seen the video, you can't unsee it. Um, and >> Trump said he chose not to watch it because he knows knew Charlie Kirk really well and he just didn't want to remember him that way. I think that was a lot of wisdom in that. >> Yeah. >> You know, because Yeah. I mean, I saw it. It's terrible, man. It's terrible. >> I mean, it's one of those things that, and again, you know, you can see all the breakdowns and all the different things. Uh, one thing I I think is worthwhile mentioning cuz I was even asked about it last night. You know, the video of the man in the white hat that was taking video of Charlie right next to him and like, you know, touches the bill of his cap and then the shot rings out or whatever. That's Frank Turk, by the way. >> Christian apologist. >> Yeah. and who uh according to people that know Frank, he thought of Charlie like a son, right? And so Frank and cross-examined and that whole thing, they're having to, you know, basically do this PR going through this PR nightmare right now, which is just absurd. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Speculation is a very dangerous thing, >> right? >> You know what I mean? Well, that's why because part of the reason that we're doing this is because, you know, we have a release schedule for for Saturated and I've got interviews already scheduled to come out. And so, it was going to be about two weeks before I was going to be able to talk about this, which is typically what I do when there's a large topic or a large thing that happened. I don't like to give here's my immediate reaction to something I just saw, right? >> Yeah. >> Because then you have to you have to do me a culpos later. You have to come back and say, "Oh, well, now we have more details and I I said that and that was foolish and you know, that's just what I had at the time." This just felt a lot different because people are not sure what to do because people are talking does this mean civil war? People are talking like okay is this a Rubicon that's been crossed? Now, I happen to believe that there it does seem like a Rubicon has been crossed in our body politic because of what Charlie Kirk's main idea was and his main idea was open discussion, open debate, openness of ideas, but he valued the person that he was debating against. And a lot of people have kind of purposely I I posted something yesterday. It's like to all the I just want to have a conversation people, the answer is no. And some people are like, don't be like Kyle. Don't say this. This is inflammatory. It's like you dummies miss the point entirely. They don't mean it. >> They don't mean it. What they want is your submission. So, I don't know if any of y'all have been in a debate with somebody before. >> They don't want you to come to their side because they've convinced you that your position is faulty and theirs is not. They just want your bending knees in front of them. That's what they want. And they can't have it. This is pearls before swine. This is in no way a call to violence and a call to retribution, all those different things. But these I just want to have a conversation. People, they're just full of it. They don't mean it. And so I just think I'm, you know, I'm done capitulating to people that don't come to an argument with intellectual honesty. It's what I say all the time. Like if you ask somebody, hey, if you were wrong about that, would you want to know, right? >> And they start freaking out and going crazy and calling you a bigot and all that, stop talking to that person. Like you're wasting your voice. >> Yeah. There there are lots of videos about Charlie coming out now. I mean, I've seen him before and he and he showed a lot of sympathy towards some very very confused people particularly around their sexuality and their history and what step very tender >> he was. Man, >> um listen man, a few things I would say this is an image bearer of God and when somebody is murdered or assassinated that is an image bearer of God that should be sad for every single person. Period. in dot uh you don't have to make an apology for being sad. You know, like all these folks that say before they're going to say this was a tragedy, they say, "Well, regardless of what you believe, you don't have to say that." >> Qualifying it. >> It's really really bad. The people that are probably the most disturbing thing to me are the are the people that are celebrating it. And honestly, man, thank goodness that there are some of these, you know, I've seen teachers and firemen and all kind of people, man. You you'd especially think these people in uniform, first responders and stuff would know better than to say this, but good on them for paying the price of losing jobs and stuff, for saying such such hateful thing. And of course, I'm pro- freedom of speech. >> Yeah. >> But speech has consequences. Yes, it does. you know, um, so can we not just say this is evil and this is very sad and may it stop? Now, I will say this, you talk to some older older guys and they will say this is new in your lifetime, but this is not new. >> Yeah. They grew up in the 60s. >> Yeah. The similarities of the late 60s and this is uh it's pretty mindbending. In fact, dude, something >> I'm wrestling with a lot. It's crazy. You know, I plan my sermons a year in advance, right? And uh what's today? Friday. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, Sunday, you know what the sermon is? We're starting a brand new series called Worship is War. >> Yep. >> And the song and what we're doing. Um, so I thought it was really cool on the Daily Blade a month ago or something. You walked through a bunch of old hymns. Yeah. >> Well, many of the same old hymns I'm going to preach on. I'm going to take that text of the hymn is going to drive me to a text in the scripture we're going to preach and tell like the backstory. Well, the one I decided to start with a year ago is because he lives, which isn't really a hymn. It's a Gaither tomb from 1971. Bill and Gloria Gaither get pregnant. She's overcome with fear because of what was happening in the country. And what was happening in the country was political unrest, race riots, um multiple assassinations. That what was that's what was going on. And she thought, "How in the world can I raise a child in this kind of environment?" She >> goes to her prayer closet, prays all night, and God gives her a word. >> Because he lives, I can face tomorrow. Because he lives, all fear is gone. Because I know that the grave is empty. Because he lives, I can do this. Now, it sounds like she wrote that yesterday. And somehow God orchestrated that thing in my mind decided a year ago. And that's what we're walking through this very weekend. So I just say that to say man is same demons new days. God's people will prevail. God's truth will prevail. And um I I do want to make sure though that folks, you know, respond in a righteous way that that we've got to be reminded that our battle is not against flesh and blood. that it is demonic. The weapons of warfare that we fight with are not the same. May justice prevail. Um and so we are going to have an opportunity to be a bright shining light of the gospel in this dark dark time. >> Yeah. I wanted to read Ephesians 6 starting in verse 10. Everyone's heard it, but it bears repeating. Finally, be strong in the Lord and the strength of his might. Put on the whole armor of God that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. So I think a lot of us got lulled to sleep thinking that we were in a battle of ideas, right? >> Yeah. >> So capitalism versus communism or free speech versus hate speech, like like something like that. And we got I think some people got lulled to sleep a little bit. And if you do any type of political commentary, which you don't really, that's, you know, more so what what we do on our show, sometimes you forget and have to be reminded like, no, these ideas come from somewhere, right? >> Yeah. And >> right cuz ideas, you know, Victor Marks when he was on my show, he's like, "Ideas come from three places. They come from God, they come from Satan, or they come from you." >> That's right. And so where do you think the idea came to this 22-year-old kid to write hey fascist on a bullet casing and then shoot somebody >> right this dude doesn't know what a fascist is >> right you can't define fascism >> if this world had not slapped that kind of label I dude there is some serious responsibility for the from the mainstream liberal media that has created a cult-like frenzy in religion um around throwing terrible kind of derogatory terminology at other people, >> which is one of the things right now, I'm sorry, but any of these left-wing media sources or personalities or people or politicians, when you call people fascists, when you call people Nazis, when you say words or violence, when when you say we must push back fascism in any way that that we can, and then you're shocked when when one of the people that believes like you do that you helped influence actually does it >> when they do what you said to do. >> Yeah. Then it's condolences, right? And I'm just sorry. Like I I'm all for condolences, but like >> these are people that are dumb enough that just don't know any world history. I mean, the first step before any group of people abuse and kill another group of people is to dehumanize those people, >> right? And then disarm them. >> You do not have to go far, man. I mean when the hoou and the tootsies when that happened it began with one group began to refer to another group not as humans but as cockroaches. That's what they called them. Cockroach. Cockroach. Cockroach. Cockroach. And then you don't feel bad about smooshing a cockroach. Okay. Obviously Nazi Germany said that Jews were not fully human. That people with special needs did not deserve life. It's the same tactic. American child slavery said those aren't fully human people. And so if they're not fully human people, then you can treat them like an animal. This is just the same thing on repeat. And these smug reporters that continue to say this or immediately shift the blame politically, like immediately when this happens, they're like, "Well, you know, January 6, what are you talking about, dude? Can you just take a breath and say evil is evil and we're just going to call balls and strikes here?" >> Well, we can't because you're too sold out to the worldview. Wikipedia uh listed him as a white nationalist. The New York Times put out something basically claiming that he was anti-semitic for a comment that he read on another podcast calling out anti-semitism of somebody else. And so then they post a retraction the next day. Again, the retraction was seen by a few dozen people and the original reporting was seen by millions. >> It's a game. >> And that's why you have these people that are publicly stating whether on social media or just generally that they're happy that this person died. So, so let me just go on the record. Okay. Okay, so I know this this might come as a shock to somebody considering our current cultural moment, but there's basically nothing politically that I agree with uh Kla Harris, Joe Biden, AOC, Chuck Schumer, Barack Obama that I agree with those people on. Um people that run left-wing podcasts, leftwing, you know, websites, social media influencers, people that want to take away guns, people that want to kill babies, like all those things. I can't find common cause with those people on any political or cultural issue, but I don't want them to be murdered. >> I know like breaking news, this is kind of insane. I'm kind of going out on a limb here. >> Not just that you don't want them to if something bad happened. >> You you would just hurt for >> I would be horrified for their family because there would be no fruit of a gospel repentance in their life before their death. And you wouldn't have to like and you wouldn't have to couch your comments in that yes this is wrong however and then have some other comment about it. You it could just be sad in and of itself evil wrong unrighteous in and of itself. And so yeah it's a sick world. I think a part of the um there's I think there's a number of reasons why this has landed very hard. You know um I mean I don't know what people say about me. I really don't care. Um, many many people would say I'm a divisive preacher because I teach the Bible, especially things like sex, sexuality, dare, all the things. Right. Right. Right. >> Every time there's particularly a a church shooting, it crosses my mind. I stand on stage in front of a lot of people, but what am I going to do, man? I mean, we can't stop it. We ain't putting metal detectors at the church. So, and I believe God will number my days. No problem. But what this one, I'm seeing this through the eyes of my 20-year-old son because Charlie Kirk had such an impact and influence. And in fact, last semester when JP was at FSU, he JP saw Charlie Kirk on the campus of at FSU. So I can this is impacting him in a different way. And he's not he's not the normal 20-year-old. He doesn't post very much stuff online at all. But I thought his words that my 20-year-old posted was are very very powerful. He said, "Let what happened to Charlie, a great father, husband, leader, and godly man, encourage you instead of strike you down with fear. We are to live out our days like Charlie did in full pursuit of what God's calling us to do." >> Amen. >> What a word. >> When that's got to be our response. >> Well, that's the thing. I I bet you I I saw someone else say this. I'd love to give him credit, but I can't remember who said it. But it's like when the apostles started to get picked off one by one, I bet followers of the way, right? Probably hadn't even been called Christians yet, but followers of the way >> were thinking, "Oh my gosh, this is terrible." Like, they're killing them. They're they're they're burning them alive. They're crucifying them upside down. They're having them torn apart by animals. They're they're peeling their skin off. They're they're doing all these horrible things. It can't get any worse than this. And yet the church is here and here we are in Jacksonville and last night around a table with John Tyson and uh Willie Robertson and and the rest of the crew and and uh Phil Hopper and we're sitting there cheersing before we have a delicious, you know, dinner. We're cheering cheersing to revival in Jacksonville. >> That's right. >> Because of what we're seeing on the grounds here in Jacksonville. It's like, >> so, so yes, Charlie Kirk's voice is no longer part of the fight. However, go back to my interview I just did with Al that came out earlier this week. And he, what did he say about Phil's funeral? He's like, Phil spoke at his own funeral about as much as his family did because of how much video there is out there. I think Charlie Kirk is done, >> right? The videos are circulating. His his debates are circulating, the things that he has done. And the reason he's dead is because he was effective. And because again if you are ineffective because I was I was telling someone this morning I was talking to John Cooper on on the phone lead singer at Skill and it's like I was thinking about it the number one reason Trump is president is because of Donald Trump. Number two reason is Joe Biden. Number three reason is Kla Harris. Number four reason Charlie Kirk. >> Yeah >> because what he was able Joe Rogan is probably fifth man. >> Yeah. What what what Charlie Kirk was able to do for years and years flipping the opinions of young people especially young men right whereas young women were going way towards the left wing. Young men are coming back to the right in droves. And the thing about it is if you focus on fear, you can't really be effective, right? So imagine if John Tyson last night or Willie two nights ago or Phil tonight or Lisa Turkhurst two days from now or you three days from now went up there terrified of what might happen while you're speaking. >> You just can't be effective. >> Can't do it. You can't do it. >> Yeah. And historically, man, the u you know, the harder the enemy tries to hit, the deeper the nail of faith just sinks into what God has called us to do. I mean, the the most effective Christians have ever been is when they were the least powerful. You know, they're they're a little group of nobodies and the Roman Empire is trying to stamp them out and they stood on the word of God and they proclaimed it fearlessly. And then that's very, you know, fear is contagious, but so is courage. Yeah. >> And I think what you're going to see I think you're going to see a bunch of 20-year-olds like mine. He's not a fear kid though. He just doesn't do fear, which is great. >> I mean, he runs towards the accident and not away from it. But I think you're going to see a bunch of people that have kind of been wishy-washy in their about being bold in their faith. And they're going to be emboldened in light of what evil has just happened. And I think what you know what that murderer assassin that assassin intended for evil, God is going to intend for good and point people to Jesus. Now there's something that could be said as well. Um I was talking with one of your assistants when Luigi Manion killed a CEO of a healthcare insurance company and was immediately celebrated as a hero, as a liberator. Right. I I showed her a picture of the the killer and I'm like, we're going to be seeing this face on t-shirts on college campuses with Che Gua shirts, with free Luigi shirts. It's going to be the same type of thing because this guy killed fascists according to them and their worldview. And so, I mean, it's one thing to say, and as I've said before, you can't just blindly send your kid to college, right? You send them off a Christian, they come back a leftist. Vodie Bacham's like you can't send your kid to Roman schools and expect not to get back a Roman. >> That's right. >> And and so it's like this isn't some sort of like anti- higher education thing, but hey, if you're not going into the STEM field or you want to be a doctor or lawyer someday, you probably don't need to go like I have a communication degree. Does that give me license to talk? No, it didn't really teach me what I'm doing today. But that there there's something to be said about this kid had democratic tendencies when he went to school and then he came out as a murdering leftist. And that there's something to be said about the catalyzing effect of what happens when people are steeped in a worldview that is completely devoid of the good book that we both have in front of us right now. >> Yeah. I just don't understand if your team if you are part of a team and your team is celebrating evil and murder, >> right? And they they think the celebration is moral >> overt. I'm not even talking about how somehow you have talked yourself into actually believing the baby in the womb is not a person. Okay, let's just give that let's move that aside. Not give it a pass. Let's just move it aside. >> But people just shooting innocent people with guns. it not in a war zone and and you are on the team that some of the fringe of that team celebrate. What are you doing, man? Like we're This is the sickest thing. I mean, this is just overtly sick. But the Bible said it was coming. The Bible said it's coming. Well, I wonder if it's when the Holy Spirit reveals itself to somebody and they finally understand their own depravity. It's almost like being shook loose or something like that. Or you've seen, you know, seen it depicted in like media or whatever movies where some guy's freaking out and somebody just goes up and slaps him across the face like, "Hey, what are you doing?" It's kind of like a reset button for people. I I I wonder about this because again, we're we're in 48 hours, right? Since since this all happened. So like we we have no idea what this means for America. We have no idea what this means for the conservative liberal divide, any of that type of stuff, right? >> But what I think it is doing is something you alluded to earlier. this third way thing that I keep being told about this magical third way that I keep being sold on like no it's not about the left and it's not about the right it's about this third way and cuz the the example I've used is like okay what is the third way neutral middle position on chopping off the healthy breast tissue of a gender confused 13-year-old girl we only chop off one boob and not the other >> the Bible's very binary >> right >> like there's day there's night there's good there's evil there's up there's down there's heaven, there's hell, there's male, there's female. In fact, the the actual point of the first two chapters of Genesis is that God was dividing things >> into twos. That's the whole point of the whole thing. And uh that that's just what it is. There is no there is no third. Now, I do think we've been there to need a King Jesus and not some political party. >> Sure. Amen. >> And there over time in American history, there have been parties that have tended to represent more Christian values than others. Right. I I think it's pretty clear these days what that is. Dude, how about the dad? I mean, you hear this? The dad turned in the son >> cuz he was a 27year sheriff's department deputy or something like that. >> Here's the thing. As hard as that must be, he just did what's right. >> Justice. >> There's right and there's wrong. >> Yeah. >> I mean, I can't imagine that poor dad, you know, and but he it was apparently him and a minister. >> Yeah. >> And uh but you know what they did? They they didn't say, "Well, you know what? you got your truth and you were probably traumatized as a child and no man, they just did what was right and that's what the scripture calls us to do. >> I just watched a documentary recently about a girl that was uh choked to death by her boyfriend and the parents of the boyfriend found out first and they kind of got together and tried to figure out, hey, how are we going to spin this? How are we going to take care of this before we call 911? and like this this whole thing. And so what ended up happening is you know that he was convicted of killing her and so he got this prison sentence and his parents also were convicted of of whatever they call it in the UK where it's like yeah whatever their version of obstruction of justice is >> and it's like we live in this cultural moment where justice is this this term that's just kind of bandied about and thrown out there like oh what is justice here but you just described the this man and we don't know if this father is a Christian or we don't know anything about his background. We we don't know much about him right now and we're not going to speculate, but he has a strong justice bend, right? We can assume that he loves his child. We can assume that, you know, it's in Utah. They've already announced that they're going to be seeking the death penalty and they will likely get it. >> Uh unless there's some sort of a a plea deal, >> especially if he confesses. Well, he's already confessed to somebody, >> right? And so, I think what we're seeing is what what does justice and righteousness require, right? Because it's one thing to talk about justice and righteousness. Same thing for pastors. You got people, pastors that will talk about justice and they will they will talk about these things, but they're not as big on the actions they're after. It's almost like they're philosophizing a little bit about what justice could look like or will heaven someday things will be all back together. And it's like will heaven come down, right? We are we are to make make a place here where where justice is considered righteous and injustice is considered immoral. Right. >> Yeah. Yeah, I had a girl in the gym today from 11:22 and she asked me, "What is 11:22's stance on capital punishment?" And I go, "Let me just tell you what, let me tell you what I personally, okay, the theological and moral claim of the scripture is that the death penalty is legit. When you take a life, then you surrender yours." >> Right. Politically, my only hang-up is you have to get it right 100% of the time. >> Yeah. >> And historically, we have not. So, the only re and this is not this will not be very popular for our audience. You know what I mean? >> Yep. >> Now, again, you get a full confession or you get a man stabbing a girl in the neck >> on video, these things are undeniable. And you I mean, that's a that seems to be a 100enter. The only place I'm not in favor of it like in general is if if if there's any chance at all that an innocent person's life will be taken, then it's not worth the risk. Okay? So, the Bible had a certain set of standards, though. It wasn't just if a really good lawyer could convince a jury. That's nowhere in here. It was multiple witnesses. There was, you know, it's those kinds of things. So, when when it's right, it's righteous. Like when the killer gets what gets gets his just do, then 100% is righteous. Just politically, we got to pay extra careful attention to it. If you are actually pro-life, every single life counts. And if you're ever going to get it wrong, it's not worth the risk. >> Well, part of the thing, part of the reason why what you just said should not be controversial is because of the standard that we have for juries, which is beyond a reasonable doubt, right? And everybody is entitled to a second defense, right? Because they can go back to the court system and say, "Well, first time didn't go real well. We're going to appeal this. We're going to do this again." Right? >> But then in the writer of Ecclesiastes, Solomon, he he's basically stating that if the justice isn't carried out swiftly, >> then people will continue to go that direction. >> We got a real mess there. There's no doubt about that. We've got a real mess there. Um I don't know how to fix it. I'm way over my skis here in like I mean President Trump was speaking today and he's absolutely right. I mean if this if this trial doesn't start for nine years >> Yeah. >> then the impact it it won't have any curbing kind of impact to the society if this guy does get the death penalty because it'll be such a distant memory. It won't and that's not the entire point of the justice system but it's part of it. Yeah, we we live in this this time period where people look at prison. So, here's the thing. Prison is either punishment or it's rehabilitation. It can't be both. We've done the both experiment for a while now and it just doesn't work the same way. And if justice is not So, again, you mentioned uh the young Ukrainian refugee that came here to be safe from murder and predation and she was stabbed in the neck three times by a psychopath who had been arrested 13 times before or 14 times. Can we maybe have a rule across the board? It's like a punch card system, right? Like at your local deli on your 10th arrest, you go to prison for 25 years or you go to prison for life, something like that to where it's like you've clearly proven that you cannot be trusted. >> So, how can they, you know, there have been some cases I wish I had Joe Rogan's recall and I could name date and name and all that. >> We'll get you some new tropics. Yeah. >> But they Yeah, that's what I need. There have been cases lately where a teenager has done something atrocious and they're holding the parents accountable. Right. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> But never gangbangers. >> But what about the judge >> of the person that lets a murderer go 14 times and then eventually murders somebody >> or the psychologist that gives them a clean bill of health and says that they have been rehabilitated, they're fined for polite society again. No accountability. >> And here's the thing that you absolutely know. I don't know what the right word for this is, but based on that activity, you already also know what they believe about. >> Israel, Palestine. >> Yeah. It's a sorting, >> gun possession, >> abortion, like, you know what I mean? It's just that kind of ideology. >> And so where where is the accountability there? There has to be some kind of accountability there for the not just the crazy person that did this, but the system that allowed him to do it when we had him in handcuffs 14 times before this. >> Well, and it's an extrapolation out of the people you mentioned earlier. So, we've got nurses, school teachers, like law enforcement officer. We have uh there's a veterinarian in my hometown. His his vet clinic is a few miles away from my house and uh was basically saying, you know, f you to Charlie Kirk. glad he's dead, all these different things. And you know, he he became famous overnight. I was part of helping helping with that. >> And these people are not saying it just because they believe it. They're saying it because they feel justified in believing it. >> But they were influenced to think this way. Yes. >> Right. >> Dark demonic forces certainly. But is there going to be an investigation of Utah State University and the professors and the adviserss and the counselors for this student? Are we just going to assume that this student was raised in a vacuum that he never paid attention to any of his college professors? He never paid attention to people. You have the new president of the Oxford Student Union, which is kind of like a a high fallutin position, coming out publicly and saying he's glad that this happened because we we have to be able to push back, you know, as them saying it and push back the darkness of fascism and all these different things. You have people coming out and saying, "Ah, it's okay because he was inflammatory and I didn't like the things that he was talking about." There has to be a reckoning with the people that are tutting these ideas. It's kind of like what you and I talk about all the time or have talked about before. People that have no concept of violence >> love to talk about it. And I was talking about this with Pastor Vinky uh last night as we were coming home from recording with Pastor Tyson >> and I was like, you know, there's technically no such thing as a pacifist. He's like, what do you mean? Because we were talking about my debate with Shane Claybourne and you know, all this kind of stuff. I was like, "There's no such thing as a pacifist." He's like, "Well, what do you mean?" I was like, "Cuz even pacifists will call the police, >> right?" Yeah. They just outsource. >> All their violence is outsourced and they're willing to do that. Whereas a lot of people listening to this right now want it to be front of mind. And that's actually what I want to talk about is because you got a lot of guys in our audience, a lot of sheep dogs, a lot of concealed carry people. These are going to be the guys if they hear about school shooting in their area, they're they're hopping in the truck and they're they're they're going to get after it, right? There are guys that are kind of like wondering, is this the moment? Is this the the moment where something has broken, the dam is broken, and it's civil war time? John Tyson mentioned, he's like, you don't want militias of of random dudes from random state thinking this is it. They thought January 6 was it, but no, this is it. And called a race, race riot, called a war of ideas where, you know, one side has more guns than the other and is okay with using them. But it's it's kind of like a what does this mean? That that's what I was like trying to even just figuring out what to call today's episode because it's the first non-numbered episode in the history of the show >> is like what does all this mean? Like where do we go from here? >> Well, one of the things and the immediate reaction of people that would call themselves fans of Charlie Kirk, the amount of those people being believers is extraordinarily high. Right. >> So here's what you don't see. >> You don't see rioting. You don't see looting. you don't see murder answered with crime, >> right? >> And this is a no doubt assassination. And so it seems like the first step from those people that would consider themselves at least conservative if not Christian. Even though there's internal outrage and there's a whole bunch of opinion shared online, what you don't see is just evil be getting more evil and saying, "Oh, this is an opportunity for me to go and bash windows and just make things worse." So that's why I do I mean I I am quite the optimistic, you know. Um and that's why I do think Yeah. Thank goodness that the conserv conservatives don't riot. They don't break laws in order to try to prove a point generally speaking. >> Yeah. I was sitting in uh Austin, Texas the week of the Joe Biden Donald Trump election. They're boarding up >> boarding up all the shops. And my buddy who was an in more right of center but intending to vote for Joe Biden was like, "Oh man, I can't believe they're boarding it up." I'm like, you know, you know which side they're boarding that up for, right? Just it's not just in case Joe Biden wins, right? And he had >> never really thought of a concept like that. Like how like, wait, wait, so what do you mean? So you're not saying so. >> And the the thing that's been a, you know, I saw it in my wife's eyes. I saw it in the eyes of that woman that introduced herself to me in your church. I've seen it in the comments and the emails and the text messages that I've been getting from people. People are scared, but they're looking for bold voices. >> Yeah. >> To tell them not, hey, it's going to be okay. Yeah. >> Right. Because that's, you know, it's what you tell a kid that lost his binky. Like my son yesterday, the hardest I've ever seen him cry in his life. Poor baby James lost his megalodon monster truck in the ocean. Right. I mean, and boy oh howdy, I went and looked for it in the ocean. And shock of all shocks, I didn't find it. But you know, it's not just, "Hey buddy, it's going to be okay." But there is a palatable fear, right? The fear in the air is so thick, you feel like you can grab a fistful of it directly out of the air. >> And I thought Willie, I mean, you want to talk about something he was already going to be preaching on two nights ago was Acts 18. I'll just read it again here. >> That's what I was looking up. >> All right. Acts 18, starting in verse 9. And the Lord said to Paul one night in a vision, these are red letters, guy, for all you red letter Christians, pay attention. Do not be afraid, but go on speaking and do not be silent, for I am with you, and no one will attack you to harm you, for I have many in this city who are my people." And he stayed a year and six months teaching the word of God among them. So I will say for me Joby when I see popular political pundits that have college visits on the books like your Ben Shapiros or your Matt Walshes or your Michael Noses or you know um yeah maybe it's a Ali Bestucky or a Glen Becker whoever your political conservative folks are that that you're into to a person none of them have canceled a single thing. Now, their security protocols, just like the ones here at the church, have changed considerably, and I think the days of outdoor political rallies are over because they almost killed the future president and former president, Donald Trump, and then they did kill Charlie Kirk but I I don't know. I do know about you, but I'm not going to get quieter. >> I'm not. I will tell you though, uh, JP on the day that it happened, he was like, you could tell he was worried for me. >> Yeah. >> I'm like, buddy, it's very different. You know, I just pastored this church, but all he could see is a guy on a stage who's his dad and man, what a sad sad day when your children even have to consider that that might be a possibility. I'm not in the army. I'm not in a war. I'm not a police officer running towards violence. You know, Charlie Kirk that morning, got up. I'm sure he read his Bible, prayed, he thought he he's doing what God put him on the earth to do. He actually the first question leads him to share the gospel. Did you hear the answer to his first question? Yeah. >> He talks about >> which over the last couple years, more of his answers went back to the gospel than his initial career. Absolutely. Al Mhler talks about he met him 10 years ago and he was just he was just a kind of a a secular conservative. Yeah. >> And then that dude met Jesus, got saved, professed his faith in Christ and >> I mean all over the place now. In a recent interview, somebody asked him, "What do you want to be known for most?" And he was like, "Courage and my faith, man. Boldness in my faith." And so, praise God for that. And so, but you know, that brother was just going out to do what God put him on this earth to do is to just tell the truth. And you can't tell the truth and not talk about Jesus. And so, that's what he was doing. and it cost him his life. I also I think you've got to I love that that Acts 18 verse that you read. I think you also have to lay over it what Jesus said. Do not fear the one that can kill the body. And you're like, "What? Ain't that what we're like most afraid of?" He's like, "No, no, no, no, no. You need to put your divine reverence in the one that has control over your eternity." And this morning as I was getting ready, um, I just listened to Phil Wickham's version of Psalm 23 from his hometown album where it's called Kind of Dressed Down Less Synthesizers. >> And I just listened to that on repeat as I was getting ready cuz I mean, I was feeling the weight of this this morning. I didn't sleep well two nights in a row and the the visions I'm getting in my head or of the videos, you know, that I've that I've consumed and different things and, >> you know, just way too many things going on in in the brain. But guys, our encouragement to you and hopefully this has been an encouragement to all of you guys is this is this is not a clarion call for for action to get even to even the score to any of those types of things. But there is a boldness that is required of followers of Christ especially men that is formative for the people around you that will see it. Because my boys, I always joke they're going to be the most toxically masculine young men on the planet. But I want them to see a gospel boldness, a gospel courage >> that isn't just, hey, yeah, I shared I shared Christ with that that worker at Subway, but it's like, hey, when everyone else was telling dad to lay low or maybe to chill out a little bit, let let things kind of die down, leaned in. Well, if you look at the church at her best, and the book of Acts records a lot of that, the way she responded to persecution, to violence was with bold declaration of the gospel. In fact, okay, so Peter and James get arrested, they get beaten, they finally get let out. They go and they have a prayer meeting and the boys pray, "Sovereign Lord, what I would have prayed is, "Dear God, protect me. Get them." That's not what they pray. >> Yep. They say, "Give us the courage to speak the gospel with boldness." And if you if you were in the meeting, you'd be like, "Boy, is that why you got in trouble to begin with? Maybe you need to tone it down." I mean, that's what the PR firm would tell you. And that's not what they did. When Steven is stoned, the gospel scatters. When Paul goes to prison, he shares the gospel wherever he is. When they start killing people, the gospel, the gospel of love and peace and joy and patience and kindness, goodness, faithfulness gentleness self-control. this their answer was love. Our our weapons of warfare are just different. I do think this is an opportunity this week to share the good news of the gospel that God loves you. This world is broken and Jesus came not only to save you but to put the whole thing back together. Now's our time. And when you see Erica, his wife >> in her public statements, when you see the public statements coming from other people, because here's the thing that's unique to a person as we wrap up here. These people are not like, "Man, I love Charlie. He was so good. He was such an effective, you know, speaker, debater, fundraiser, all those types of things." You know, he wastes a lot of time with all that Jesus crap, though. Now, you're not really seeing that, are you? That's right. >> You're seeing people that are clinging to their faith harder than they ever have. And so, guys, if you've been floating around untethered for a bit, it's time to get rettethered, right? It's time to be tethered to the word. That's why we started the daily blade. That's why you do deepen. That's why you preach the way you do. That's why I do on Dawn of Life is to tether you guys to the things that that can be done. Rest assured, Joby and I are not slowing down. Nope. >> Uh our partnership deepens every time we get together to do ministry together. We're in this. We're in this together. There will continue to be boldness. Preach from here. Um you know, I will continue to talk about this and the ramifications therein. Uh do you have a last word before I close this out? >> Uh be bold. I mean, that's um fear is a spirit that does not come from the Lord. Fear is a demonic spirit. Paul told Timothy, I God has not given you a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind. And so that's what we need from godly men right now is a a spirit of power, a spirit of boldness, a spirit of love. I mean, I can't say that enough. That doesn't just mean everybody needs a side hug. >> Yeah. >> But to tell the truth, rooted in the good news of the gospel, and of a sound mind. Don't get caught up in all the crazy. Don't get caught up in every rumor you've heard. We need we need a soundness of mind here so that the gospel of love can go out. >> Guys, keep pushing back darkness. Keep seeking the line of Judah. And if the tomb is empty, anything is possible.