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This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Let's get into
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it. Our guys today got a special guest on the podcast. His name is Ray Comfort. So
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he is a Christian apologist, evangelist, author and speaker. And he's written, get this over a
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hundred books, over a hundred books. It makes me feel bad that I have zero guys, you know, maybe one
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day. But these include faith is for weak people. Anyone but me. Why would anyone follow Jesus and
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his newest book that we spend quite a bit of time on today. So many lions, so few Daniel. So guys,
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that will be in the show. No, you can check that out. But he started a ministry called living
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waters publications. And he's also the cohost of the award winning TV program way of the master. He
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even has a YouTube channel that has over a million subscribers around 1.2 million subscribers and his
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videos have been viewed over 200 million times. And you might know that name and it will hit your
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ears the same way that did for me when I was pitched this interview, because I have to go all the way
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back to like junior high school. Okay, so this is about the time I can't remember if it was right
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before I became a Christian or right after I became a Christian. But you know, I would go to Saturday
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nights, I would go stay at my dad's house and then I would go to church in the morning, he dropped me
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off and then come pick me up and that whole deal. But whenever he would go to sleep, I would just sit
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there and you know, scroll the channels. And I would go to TV in late on Saturday, like 10 or 11
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o'clock on Saturday. And that's when they would show like the cool teenage like version of TV in
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and so it would be like skateboarding videos. And then you know, you could watch the new music video
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from POD or project 86 or someone like that. But then after that program would be over, I can't remember
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the name of it. There would be this this videos of this guy interviewing people in the street. And
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he's got this, you know, New Zealand accent, this Kiwi accent off camera. And he's asking these people
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these very pointed questions about the 10 commandments and about, you know, where they would go when
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they would die and those types of things. And it was just really interesting seeing that was probably
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the first time I saw on the street of Angelism. I would almost guarantee that that would be the
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first time I saw kind of what that looks like. So I was very excited to talk to him about that
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today. So we actually do kick off the episode today a little bit differently. He wanted to
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pray for us before we got going. So I went ahead and hit record. And he mentions tornadoes. And the
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reason is is because literally last night as of the recording of this, we had like a bunch of
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tornadoes in Oklahoma. There were like six tornado warnings at one time. It was like this big thing
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that moved across the entire state. So he's praying and thanking God that I had made it through the
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tornadoes, which I'm very thankful as well. But in this interview, we spend some time,
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we quite a bit of time talking about so many lines, so few Daniels. But the thing that I wrote
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down during this interview that I thought was very appropriate is condensed greatness.
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Because that's what I feel like this interview is because it's only about 30 minutes long or so,
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like we didn't talk forever. But there's so much packed into everything that he says.
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Because this is a guy that wakes up and goes to bed, terrified that people are going to go to hell,
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that they haven't heard the gospel, that they haven't accepted the gospel. And so he's oriented
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his entire life around that type of a mindset. And so he's very, very bold. And so you'll notice
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there are a lot of similar things that I've said on the show before, if you've listened
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for any length of time, that he's saying as well, it just sounds cooler coming through his voice
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because he's got this great accent. But you know, we talk about how he got into ministry,
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how he became a Christian. But we talked about even this modern state of evangelism,
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where we don't really want to talk about people sin and how that's not really doing people any
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good. And again, it goes back to, you're not telling people about who God is in reality.
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And then you're thinking that you're saving them somehow. But then at the end,
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I also asked him the question, you know, what about all these people that want to say things like,
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I want to be known for what I'm for, not what I'm against. Like, what would he say to people like
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that? So I really, really enjoyed my time with Ray. It was just an absolute treat. So I'm not
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going to keep him from you any longer. So without further ado, let's get into it.
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Bush, how about, Hey, we'll go and get this going. But yeah, if you wouldn't mind praying for us
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before we get going, let's do it. Yeah, Father, I thank you for Kyle. Thank you for
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protecting him and his family from tornadoes. I pray that you'll continue to keep them in health,
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give them wisdom, bless us ministry, and bless our time together. We know that without you,
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we can do nothing. And we don't want to do nothing today. We want to do something substantial for
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your kingdom. In Jesus name, Amen. Amen. All right, let's get after Ray Comfort. Welcome
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done Dawn to life of man's podcast. Good to be here, Kyle. Thank you.
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So let's just start simple because obviously you're a Christian evangelist and apologist,
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but give us the, I guess, spark notes 30,000 foot version of how you came to faith in Christ to
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begin with. Well, I came to faith in Christ because I realized I was dying. The age of 22, I kind of,
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I aged prematurely, I'd accomplished everything I wanted to achieve by the age of about 20 years old,
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own business, own car, financially okay, complete freedom to go surfing when I wanted. And I thought,
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man, I'm just waiting around to die. What do I do next? And I realized life was really a Solomon
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experience. Life became futile, happy though I was. I knew that a sharp pin of reality was going
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to prick my bubble one day. And that left, left me, that left me just crying out, oh, you know,
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why am I alive? And that's, that's incredibly frustrating when you're not a Christian. I remember
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I cried out, why? But I wasn't crying out to God as far as I was concerned used to pray at night,
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but I had no living relationship with the Lord. And six months later, I came to faith in Jesus,
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born again, made a new creature on Christ, granted everlasting life and an exploded
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gratitude in my heart to a point where I just want to serve God with every ounce of energy I've got.
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And you have been doing so for the last several decades. And I actually remember
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whenever I was reading through your book, which will, your newest book, which we'll get into just a
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second, I remember being a in high school, because I didn't go to a family, I was in a family that
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went to church, I started going on my own. And so when I would stay up late on Saturday nights,
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I would watch like the, the cool stuff on TBN, like it's all the skateboarders that are also into
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Christ and things like that. But then there would be these interactions where you would be off-screen
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and you would be having these interactions with these non-Christians. And you'd be asking them
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these questions to kind of basically get at, you know, where are they at in terms of their
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understanding of God, their understanding of their own depravity. And so it's a very unique thing
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to you. And even to this day on your YouTube channel, you're using a lot of the same questions
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and asking them in the same cadence. So talk to me a little bit about in evangelism and apologetics
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when you're talking to these people, diatically one on one. How did you learn to ask them the
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questions in that in that cadence and to get them to where they have to reckon with who Jesus is?
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Boy, that's a, that's a great question. It's called the Socratic method. I didn't really
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know what it was. It was just a matter of asking questions, but questions because it's
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an offensive. But it's not my, my quote method. I stole it from Jesus, Mark 10 verse 17,
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the rich, young, rural, ran into Jesus and said, "Good master, what shall I do during
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her eternal life?" And there's a, there's a wonderful opportunity to get the decision
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for Jesus. Pray with the guy, but Jesus didn't do that. He said, "Why do you call me good? There's
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none good but God." He corrected his understanding of the word good. And then he said, "You know the
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commandments. Why did he do that?" Well, he wanted to bring the knowledge of sin. That's the point
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of God's moral law to bring the knowledge of sin. The apostle Paul said, "I had not known sin,
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but by the law, by the law, sin became exceedingly sinful." So I have two great
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confidences when I witness to people. One is that they have a will to live and two, we can
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perhaps get in this a little later, they have a knowledge of right and wrong, the conscience.
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It's the work of the law written on the heart and it bears witness with the commandments.
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And so when you're asking people these questions now, I have a reputation for being fairly forward,
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fairly aggressive, whatever personality test you take where it tells you what kind of animal
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your leadership style is, it's always like the rhinoceros or the hippo or whatever animal runs
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over all the other animals. And so I've heard it said before and there's been a critique of your
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style that your questions come off as mean and biting and way too forward and people want everyone
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to just kind of be nice because we all know the 11th commandment is to be as nice as possible at
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all times and not make people feel uncomfortable. Now, I didn't get that impression. It wasn't
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until I heard someone else critique you in that way that I was like, "Okay, I can see why they
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would say that." But you're very straightforward about people's sin. Tell me a little bit more about
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that because I agree with the approach, but it really does bother people.
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Yeah, bothers people, but people that are bothered, I just say, "Well, you better send your
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thoughts to Jesus because he said if your eye causes you to send pluck it out, for it's better
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to end a heaven without an eye and get a hell with both your eyes where the fire is never quenched
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and the worm never dies. He said, "Fear not him who has power to kill your body and afterwards
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do no more, but fear him who has power to kill your body and cast your soul into hell."
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And I do have a reputation for asking pointed questions like, "When did you last look at
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pornography?" And that brings shame to people, but imagine the shame of that happening on
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Judgment Day before a holy God. And so I liken myself to a good doctor who doesn't talk about
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the cure when he has a terminal patient in front of him. Instead, he talks about the disease
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because this guy thinks he's healthy when he's terminal, he's not going to take the cure.
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So a good doctor will pick up an x-ray and say, "Look at this. This poison is seeping through your
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system. You're going to be dead in two weeks. A good doctor will try and make his patient tremble,
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bring a bit of sweat to his brow. Why?" Because he's not going to take the cure until he first
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realizes his disease. He has to face the facts. So I hold up the Ten Commandments and say,
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"Look what's happening. You've admitted to me. You're a liar, a thief, a blaspheme. You're having sex
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outside of marriage. Your terminal. You've got to face the holy God and the wages of sin is death,
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and that's going to come to you on Judgment Day. God's going to end up casting you into the lake of
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fire, and that's a fearful thing." So I deliberately try and make people fearful because I know that
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fear can be a friend, not your enemy, if it's a good fear. It's the sort of fear that will make
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you put on a parachute, on a plane. It's the sort of fear that will make you put on a seat belt and
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a car. The Bible says, "The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom." And so I hope that people
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see that the fear that comes to their own heart because they've sinned against God
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is a friend, not an enemy because it'll drive into God's mercy in Christ.
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I mean, Ray, I absolutely appreciate that approach because I feel like in our modern
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time, we don't really use fear or shame as an appropriate weapon for good. So think about the
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doctor that you just brought up. Doctors now, you know, they'll have someone come in that's
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significantly overweight. They're on a bunch of pills, this pill to take care of that pill,
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that prescription to take care of that prescription. And what these people really need to do is they
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need to spend six months exercising and eating clean. But we don't want to do that. We don't want
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to judge people. We don't want to make them feel bad. And that's just one of the modern
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objections that we get. But I mean, Ray, you've dealt for decades and decades and decades through
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thousands of conversations with people. You've heard every objection possible to how God can't be real,
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how Jesus could possibly be his son, how heaven and hell aren't real places,
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how we're just highly evolved monkeys that wear pants and talk to one another.
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But like, what are some, I guess, the toughest objections that you have had to overcome in
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your career? And are there any that are still a sticking point for you?
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No, not really. There are difficult ones for most Christians, such as why is this suffering?
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Why doesn't God help those that are suffering? You know, the guy down the road is dying of
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cancer. He's an agony. The drugs aren't helping him. They're making him worse. And he dies and
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God doesn't do anything. Why is this suffering? Well, I don't know why God allows suffering,
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but I do know why there is suffering. We live in a fallen creation.
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If you get into a brand new Toyota and you're saying to your friends, "Hey, look how cool this car
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has been made." And you show them all the high tech stuff. And then you drive into an intersection,
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the brakes fail and this Toyota with accelerator sticks, which did happen a few years ago with Toyota.
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And a lot of people are killed and there's terrible suffering in front of you. You don't say, "Look
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at the suffering. Therefore, nobody made this car." That's a ridiculous, illogical leap. It's better
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than right to say, "Look at all the suffering. Therefore, something is radically wrong." And
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when we look at creation, we can see there's a creator. We see amazing design everywhere we
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look from the atom to the universe. Suffering shouldn't make us say, "Therefore, nobody made
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everything." It didn't have a maker. There's no God. We should say something is radically wrong.
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So suffering is a very real evidence that we live in a fallen creation. It substantiates
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exactly what the Bible says. So a lot of these issues that are brought up really aren't questions
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asked by the ungodly. They're actually excuses to carry on in their sins. They just want to stack
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a whole lot of bushes between them and God so they can continue having sex with their gorgeous
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girlfriend or looking at pornography because sin gives incredible pleasure. What we've got to do
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is get the bushes away and say, "They're all going to move on judgment day and you need to get
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right with God and you need to face up now. Are you going to lose your soul?"
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Yeah. And it's removing the barriers to entry. But I also think about something that I learned
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from Frank Turk when he talks about, you know, there are these places where these pianos that are
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out there like maybe in a subway station or some random store and someone sits down.
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If they start playing Beethoven and they play a piece from Beethoven badly, you don't blame Beethoven,
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right? Like you blame the person that's making the mistake. And so it's similar to what you're
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saying there with the Toyota experience. But with all these times that you've sat down with people,
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obviously, I've seen your highlight reel, right? You know, for years and years, we've seen your
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highlight reel of these things going well, people being in tears and accepting Christ.
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But there had to have been some horrible experiences that you've had. You can't have had all these
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interactions with people and they all, you know, went off skipping and having a good time.
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And I know not everybody accepts Christ right in that moment. But give me some of the dirt.
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What are some of the bad ones? What are some of the ones that didn't make the YouTube channel?
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Yeah. Well, we actually made them into the YouTube channel. We've got an episode called
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When Things Go Wrong, where I get chased by a woman, you know, I co-hosted with a camera and
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he gets chased by a woman. I was chased by a woman once, but she wanted to beat me up.
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There's a kind of a difference. I don't know why. There's other times where I was preaching
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open air in Jerusalem, where I was almost killed. A guy spat on me five times while I was preaching.
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This is all on video. And they chased the guy with a camera. They want to get a hold of the camera
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so they couldn't record them beating me up. Got away with that. I was in Santa Monica when I was
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open air preaching to a crowd of about 40 people. When a lady, you'll use the effort to describe me.
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And I said, "Madam, can you please watch your language? There are ladies present."
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She wouldn't have said that, because she said, "I'm a lady." And I said, "Madam, you're maybe a woman,
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but you're not a lady," because she'd used the effort so many times. That she ran at me like a
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bad out of heaven and beat me to a pulp. I mean, she wasn't the normal female. She didn't scratch
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and pull here. She looked like she was Mike Tyson's sister. It took two weeks for the bruising to go.
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But she doubled my crowd and she didn't come back any time. So there are times that things go
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wrong, but they're few and far between. If you remember a few simple principles. The servant of the
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Lord must not strive, but be gentle to all men. Don't bear a smart mouth like I was that day.
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And don't preach open air in Jerusalem. It's not wise because it has bad reputation anyway.
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But most of the times they get away with saying hard sayings and people appreciate it.
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And at the end they say, "I appreciate you talking to me like this. It's all made sense. Thank you
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very much." That happens so many times. I think there's an inherent boldness in the way that you do
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things. And one thing that I try to encourage people to do, it's a small thing. But whenever
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you're brought your food at a restaurant and they put yourself in front of you, "Hey, does everything
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look right? Hey, is there anything else I can grab you before you dig in?" One thing that I always do
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is I say, "Hey, we're about to bless our meals or something I can pray for you about." Now, you
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might think that you're going to get some crazy person that's going to stab you with your steak
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knife, but the answers have been everything from, "Nah, man, I'm good." And they awkwardly move
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way to the last one, just last week. This guy was like, "Yeah, I'm 70 days sober today. And this is
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my job that I have to work to stay in this house, this sober living house. And man, I would really
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appreciate some prayer to keep this going." And it's like just a little bit of obedience, just a
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little bit of obedience and boldness and going, because it's like worst case scenario, you can
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stab with a steak knife. Well, just be ready for that just in case, because who knows? You might
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get chased down the street. But one thing I did want to talk with you about, and one of the main
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reasons why you're on here today, is because in addition to the about a hundred books that you've
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written in your life, you got a new one out right now. It's called So Many Lions, So Few Daniels. So
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I love the title. I just finished the book just a few days ago. But how about you give our audience
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just a general idea about what the book is about, and then we'll dig into it? I haven't read it,
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I'm just kidding. It was actually inspired by atheists, believe it or not. A number of years
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ago, I saw a t-shirt with the words So Many Christians, So Few Lions. And I thought, boy,
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that's as culturally sensitive as So Many Blacks, So Few Lynchings wrote, So Many Jews,
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So Few Nazi Ovens. So that book was written out of a righteous indignation. I thought, how
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dare they? Because we need Christians to be bold. We need Christians who fling open their windows
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and pray to spite the threats of the world. We've just got to realize all you live godly in Christ
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Jesus shall suffer persecution. Yeah, we're going to be hated for his namesake. But there's more on
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the line than our rejection. What's on the line is people's eternal salvation. Kyle, it horrifies
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me that people are going to hell. It horrifies me that they're living a life haunted by the fear
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of death, knowing that every beat of their heart has taken them closer to their funeral march.
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It's a it's a horror beyond words. And so I want Christians to rise up and be bold. And there's
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certain keys to being bold. You mentioned a waiter before or praying with a waitress.
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You think her a waitress approaches a table with three businessmen sitting at their table. They've
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got their little briefcases, their dressed in suits. They're obviously wheeling and dealing big money.
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What does she do? Stand in the background and wait for a right time to button.
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Oh, she just walks up and says, can I take your order? Why does she do that?
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Because she knows she has what they want. They're there to eat food and she's there to get food.
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And so she's bold. And you and I have what this world wants. They're all haunted by the fear of
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death. They would give everything they've got to keep their precious life. Nobody in the right
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mind wants to die. And we've got everlasting life given to us by the god who is life itself.
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And it's a free gift. So we have what they want. And so we must be bold. And there are certain keys
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to being bold. As I mentioned before, my two big keys to being bold is number one. I know that I'm
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not talking to a primate. I know I'm talking to a human being made in the image of God. And God
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has placed eternity on their hearts. They have a will to live like my experience. Something in them
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says, oh, I don't want to die. And you can see it. I mean, the gym is packed because people want
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to extend their life. They want to stay healthy. They eat horrible food, drink green slime to try
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and make themselves healthy because they want to extend their precious life. No one would sell an
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eye for a million dollars and no one in their right mind. No one would sell both eyes for 100
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million dollars. And that's just the windows of the soul. Say how much more is the soul worth? So I
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know this person has a will to live. And so I address that when I meet a stranger, I just say to them,
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do you think there's an afterlife? That's my big bold. That's what makes me bold. I'll tell you why.
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When I say to someone, a stranger, hey, how you doing? He says good. What's your name? Fred? I'm
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right. Fred, I got a question for you. Do you think there's an afterlife? When I ask that question,
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I'm not talking about Jesus, God, the Bible, sin, light, justice, judgment, heaven or hell,
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I've just asked a question. Do you think there's an afterlife? It's not offensive. And Fred might
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say, well, I don't know. I said, you think about it. He says all the time, I say, you're afraid of
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death. He might say, yeah, I am actually. Or he might say, no. And I say, look, everyone should
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be afraid of death. Always be afraid of that. What could kill you? And death is going to kill you. So
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have a fear of this thing. So you'll do something about it. So I dress the will to live. And secondly,
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I dress the conscience. I know that everybody's given a God-given conscience. It's society-shaped,
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but it's God-given. And so I address it. I say, do you think you're a good person? I move from the
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intellect, the place of argument, to the conscience, the place of the knowledge of right and wrong.
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The moment I say, do you think you're a good person? I've moved away from that intellect,
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which is in a place of hostility. And I'm addressing the conscience, the knowledge of right and
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wrong. And I know, because that conscience is the work of the law written on the heart,
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that it will bear witness. When I say to him, you know, it's wrong to commit adultery.
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It's wrong to commit murder. It's wrong to lie in steel, don't you? He'll nod in affirmation,
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because of that God-given conscience. The word conscience means with knowledge. So they're my
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two keys to boldness. And anyone can have that. You know, Kyle, I was behind the door when they gave
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out talent. I can't learn. I can't jump. I can't sing, but I can't have faith in God. Anyone can
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have faith in God. And so when you have faith in God and you exercise the boldness using those two
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simple biblical principles that makes Goliath go down to Zacchaeus, you can do this thing.
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That's great word. That's great encouragement to everybody listening to this.
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I'd like to dig into a few quotes from the book to get a little bit more of an expansion and to give
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guys a taste of what is actually in the book. So let me read this quote to you here. If our conversation,
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or sorry, if our conversion experience is merely intellectual, it will only be a matter of time
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until someone with a better intellectual argument causes us to stumble. We will have no shield of
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faith to resist the flaming arrows of the devil. Faith is the first and last step of the Christian
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walk. So the reason why I wanted to ask you about this is because I know that there are people that
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are saved that come to faith in Christ at these, you know, big revival type things where there's
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lots of music and a lot of emotional manipulation and all of their raising their hands and they
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actually genuinely accept Christ. But then I also know some other people that accepted Christ more
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in an intellectual level where they're actually looking at the New Testament and looking at the
22:01
whether or not we could trust the people that gave us the accounts of Jesus' life. And so if you
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were to have them categorize their conversion, they would categorize it as an intellectual
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conversion that was moved by the Holy Spirit, I guess would be the fairest way to say it.
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So are you saying with a quote like that that we shouldn't rely on intellect? Because even in
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your last answer, you were talking about intellect, but I just wanted to make sure I was clear on that.
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Yeah, I don't rely on the intellect, but I use it as a springboard. It's like when you go fishing
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Kyle, you're not just go fishing with bait. If you just got bait on the end of a line,
22:30
you're going to get a fat, happy fish that gets away. Under the bait is a hook. And so
22:35
intellect or intellectual argument or apologetics are the bait. We've got a whole bible on
22:43
apologetical arguments called the evidence bible. So I do believe in apologetics, obviously,
22:48
but I believe they have their right place. The hook goes under the bait. The hook is God's law,
22:53
those commandments and the bait. So what I do is I've got someone sometimes and say,
22:57
do you think God created man in his own image or a product of evolution? Are you a primate?
23:03
What am I doing? I'm just baiting. I know exactly where I'm going. I know I'm not going to stay too
23:08
long with the baiting. I'm going to get to the hook because I want to pull the fish in.
23:12
And I know that if I pull him in the intellect, he's not going to repent. Why should he repent?
23:17
He knows God exists anyway. Everybody knows God exists. When I meet an atheist,
23:23
I know I'm not dealing with an intellectual. I'm dealing with a fool according to the bible.
23:27
Because here is somebody who believes the scientific impossibility that nothing created everything.
23:34
I'm not saying he's not saying nothing was in the beginning. He was saying nothing was the
23:39
prime mover that gave us flowers, birds, trees, sun, moon, stars, seasons, fruits, the marvels of
23:45
a human eye, male and female, and every species were created by nothing. And I have to explain
23:50
and it's embarrassing to do it. I have to say to him, actually, nothing can do nothing because it
23:55
is nothing. That's insane. So I know I'm not dealing with an intellect. I'm dealing with a fool,
24:01
as the bible says, because the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly
24:06
seen being understood by the things that are made. Therefore, they're without excuse.
24:11
The heavens declare the glory of God. Every time an atheist, so so cold, looks at the heavens,
24:16
he knows God exists because God has given light to every man. So I move away from that excuse,
24:23
and I've often got atheists to actually agree with me when I say, hey John, be honest with me.
24:31
This whole atheism thing, it's just because you don't want God telling you what to do.
24:36
You don't want him to tell you to stop having sex with your gorgeous girlfriend and your love
24:40
looking at pornography. They give you great pleasure. Am I speaking the truth and you say,
24:44
you are actually? It's just atheism. It's a thin bush. They hide behind. But it's not legitimate.
24:50
It's not going to hold water on judgment day because God's given light to every man. So
24:55
I move away from the intellect to the conscience fairly quickly because I know it's just a rabbit
24:59
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This is a job for indeed sponsor jobs. No, that's absolutely a great point. That's something that
25:32
all of us need to understand is that when you're talking to somebody, they don't have a fully
25:36
fleshed out viewpoint. They just picked a category, atheists, agnostic or searching or they can't really
25:42
define it. They're just picking a category. There's another quote that I wanted to get your feedback
25:46
on as well as this. "His personal love for me is magnified by my understanding of the seriousness
25:51
of my sin. The more I see my sin, the greater his love seems to me. I deserved wrath but was given
25:57
mercy. My sin angered God, but he deferred it in Christ because he loves me." Now, Ray, obviously,
26:04
you're very well aware of this, but there's kind of this seeker-sensitive model that's out there
26:08
where we like ignore sin, especially the varsity sins, and we really water down the gospel and you
26:14
spend some time in so many lines, so a few Daniels talking about the watering down of the gospel.
26:18
But whenever I read through the Bible, it's like, "Okay, the church seems to be a place for Christians
26:22
to be equipped, discipled, and then sin out to create more converts and to help more people
26:27
become Christians." But it's like these churches that have big numbers and a lot of people show up
26:32
on Sunday. They don't actually talk about anything. It's just life lessons with a few Bible verses
26:37
sprinkled over the top so they can keep their tax exempt status, but they don't want to talk
26:40
about people's sin. Or they'll talk about sins that they know nobody's really doing in there, right?
26:45
And so that nobody feels judged or feel like they're being moved in a negative direction or
26:50
something like that. But I think you're right. We don't understand the true gift of mercy until we
26:55
understand all personal depravity. So I guess what's your message to a lot of these
26:59
seeker-sensitive models or ministries to where it's just like, "Yeah, we're going to ignore your sin
27:03
and just hope you figure it out on the back end." Yeah, these preachers have become motivational
27:08
speakers. They're not sons of thunder, thundering out sin, righteousness, and judgment. They're
27:13
really traitors. They're like Judas. They have a belief in Jesus, but they don't really believe
27:18
what he said about sin, righteousness, and judgment. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.
27:23
Bible says in the last days, there'll be a lack of fear of God, just be a form of godliness.
27:27
And the scriptures say of the world, "There is none who fears God. They have no fear of God before
27:32
their eyes." Let me just share something with you that I find very interesting. I have an advantage
27:39
over most people that preach open air in the U.S. And that is, I come from New Zealand. And when
27:44
I was a kid in New Zealand, the police used to hit people with sticks. They didn't have guns.
27:49
Someone was naughty. They'd hit them with a baton like that. And that would straighten them out.
27:54
Same with England. Things have changed now because of the way the world has gone.
27:58
But when I came to the U.S. and I opened and preached for the first time and was approached by a
28:03
police officer, all I could say as he walked towards me was this, "He's got a gun." And it terrified me
28:12
because I knew if I knew quickly, put my hand in my pocket, he could legally shoot me. He could
28:17
kill me. He wants to get home that night. And so it's in his authority to take my life. So I've
28:24
been stopped opening up preaching over a dozen times and every time. I did not say, "First
28:30
amendment rights officer, you're a servant of the people." I would say, "Yes, sir. No, sir.
28:34
Where do you want me to move, sir? Why?" Because he had a gun. Now listen to the words of Jesus.
28:39
"Fear not him who has power to kill your body, and afterwards do no more, but fear him who has
28:45
power to kill your body, and cast your soul into hell." That's more than a reverential fear.
28:52
That's a fear of what God can do. He can cast into hell. That's the sort of fear I had for the
28:58
police, and that's the sort of fear I have for God. It's not just a reverential fear.
29:04
Let me tell you how powerful and how good the fear of God is. When I was 16, this is kind of
29:10
personal, but it's worth sharing. I found myself out the back of a dance hall in the dark
29:16
in long grass with a gorgeous 16-year-old female. It was like heaven for a young guy like me with
29:23
the hormones kicking in. My intentions were not honorable, but she said something that scared the
29:30
living daylights out of me, actually put the fear of God in me, and this was six years before I
29:34
became a Christian. She just said this as we lay there in the dark. She said, "You know what?
29:40
God's watching us, and I immediately stood my feet." It was like a bucket of ice came from the
29:46
heavens. I said, "Let's go back into the dance hall." The fear of God kept me for making a terrible
29:52
mistake. I could have got a pregnant 16-year-old. I could have brought shamed her family, shamed
29:56
to my family, could have instigated an abortion, but the fear of God caused me to depart from evil
30:02
as the Bible says. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, and that's what's lacking in contemporary
30:08
churches. What the preachers don't realize is there's such a thing as a false conversion. The
30:13
parable of the sower speaks of true and false conversion, the stony ground hearer, the thorny
30:20
ground hearer, the wayside hearer, and our modern churches are filled with false converts.
30:26
People that don't fear God, they're not departed from their sin. They have named the name of Christ,
30:31
but heaven departed from iniquity, and they're the multitude that were called out in Jesus,
30:36
Lord, Lord. We did many wonderful things in your name, and you'll say, "Apart from me,
30:40
you work out of iniquity. That's lawlessness. I never knew." That's a terrifying thought,
30:47
and one that plagues me to be faithful when I talk to people. I don't water down the message,
30:51
because if you water down the medicine, you're going to take away from it. It's cured of properties.
30:56
Nothing's going to happen. If we water down the gospel in this presentation, it's going to produce
31:01
false converts and leave people in their sins, and that's a terrifying thought.
31:05
And it's also about viewing God properly, and you use fear of God there. There's a great book
31:10
by Mattie Montgomery called Scary God. Imagine a pastor saying, "Yeah, God's really scary." That's
31:16
not a way to get people to donate a bunch of money and come back next Sunday, but there's another
31:20
quote where you deal with this in the book, and then we'll leave so many lines, so a few Daniels there.
31:24
"God didn't rain watery tears onto Sodom and Gomorrah. He rained down fire and brimstone.
31:29
My sin doesn't hurt God. It angers him. It angers him because he loves that which is holy, just and
31:35
good. A good judge isn't hurt by the wicked crimes of a criminal. When a criminal commits rape and
31:40
murder, the judge is grieved for the family, but he's furious at the one who committed the crime."
31:45
And so specifically with Sodom and Gomorrah, we've seen modern preachers kind of tut around
31:51
homosexuality and sexual sin. We've seen prominent pastors say things like, "Ah, you know, the Bible
31:57
only whispers about sexuality and things like that." And they're saying these things
32:01
purportedly to make LGBTQ+ affirming statements or these people that identify that way, wanting
32:08
to make sure that they feel comfortable in their sin while sitting in their pews or their fancy
32:13
modern chairs. And so talk to me a little bit more about viewing God in the appropriate way,
32:18
because yes, God is love. God is loving, but God cannot be in the presence of sin. It's a holy,
32:26
unloving thing to do to someone to say, "Yeah, your sin is somehow different than mine because
32:31
you're in a protected class and you have a whole month about your pride and things like that."
32:36
But I feel like we've gotten to this modern moment where a lot of pastors have taken the post-modern
32:40
nonsense lie that, "Well, that's your lived experience and you've never struggled with same
32:44
sex attractions." So we're not really going to talk about the hellfire and brimstone that was brought
32:48
down on Sodom and Gomorrah, because we want to make sure these people come back next Sunday,
32:52
as opposed to saying, "Hey, we need to deal with your sin." God's scary. Just figure it out.
32:56
You know, I've struggled with adultery since I was a little kid. I've always wanted to sleep
33:00
with gorgeous women, whether they're married or not. It's always been a temptation. I was born like
33:05
it, but it doesn't make it right. That's why the homosexual has to be born again. God will give
33:09
him a new heart, who'll give him a new nature. And so I love homosexuals. I'm not going to say,
33:15
"Oh, you're homosexual? Okay, that disqualifies you from hearing how you can find everlasting life."
33:21
Right. Well, it's just the opposite. I love this guy. And I'm going to tell him that what he's doing
33:25
is sinning against God, like adultery, fornication, blasphemy, lying and stealing,
33:29
and he needs to repent of all sin. Excuse me, Ted Paul on the throat trying to evolve into a frog.
33:34
Moses once said to God, "Let me see your glory." And God says, "You can't see me and live." I tell
33:41
you what I'll do. This has come for paraphrase. I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll put in the cleft
33:44
of a rock, which is the type of Christ. Rock of ages, cleft for me. Let me hide myself for me.
33:51
And then rock of ages, cleft for me. Let me hide myself on thee. And then God says,
33:57
"I'll let my goodness pass you by." It was God's goodness that was going to kill Moses.
34:03
In the same way that a good judge is furious at a criminal, God's goodness is furious at our sin,
34:10
his wrath abides on us. That's what the Bible says. Every time we sin, we straw up wrath. In fact,
34:16
our death is wages paid to us from God. The wages of sin is death. Your death is going to be evidence
34:22
to you that God is deadly serious about sin. And so God let Moses see where he had passed by
34:28
and let him look on where he had been. And Moses faced so Sean with the glory of God,
34:32
Israel couldn't even look at his face. And it's that goodness sinners have to stand in on
34:38
the day of judgment and that goodness will fall upon them like grease lightning if they're in
34:42
their sins. And that's why we want them to come to Christ. Homosexuals, the dollarless
34:46
fornicators, blasphemers, whoever will may come. And so we plead with all men and this whole
34:52
silliness about Christians hating a homosexual is just a lie. We love them.
34:57
Yeah, it's a lie from the pits of hell because that's exactly where an ideology like that would
35:02
come from. So again, guys, the name of the book is so many lines, so few Daniels. It is in the
35:06
show notes you guys should go and definitely check it out. Before we get you out of here,
35:09
I did want to ask you about something that I saw that was upcoming from your ministry.
35:12
And it's a documentary you have coming out called what is it? And this is a documentary that is
35:17
taking on the abortion topic. So obviously, this has been a hot topic since Roe v. Wade since the
35:21
early 70s. They the Supreme Court thought that was going to take care of the issue. And it did
35:25
nothing of the sort of just created, you know, this this constant issue over several decades. But
35:30
then with Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood v. Casey going the way the trash bin last summer,
35:35
we've we've gotten to this point now where there are a lot of people that are struggling with this
35:38
issue. I've gone and spoken to church and I've advocated to go and speak to even more churches
35:43
to try to plead with them to say your congregation is not as pro life as you think it is.
35:47
I could destroy most of these people pro pro life bona fides just by asking them one question.
35:52
What if she's raped or what if it's incestuous? And then all of a sudden people Christians will
35:56
be like, yeah, I guess we can kill that baby. And so I don't think Christians are sufficiently pro
36:01
life. I don't think they sufficiently understand the topic. And it seems like what is it is going
36:05
to be addressing that? Do I have that correct? You have it right on, you hammered the nail in.
36:09
The whole issue sits on what is it? What is it that's in the womb? Hitler killed so many Jews
36:16
because he said, what is it? It's not human will kill them. And that's why he killed so many Jews.
36:21
And if people think it's just a mucus or some little whatever, that's okay to kill it. But this
36:28
is a human life. So this, what is it? It's very, very powerful. It's featuring Mark Spence who's
36:35
on staff as one of our leaders in our ministry. He's absolutely brilliant apologist, especially
36:41
in this area. He's got such a passion. He was actually told to abort one of his kids. The doctor
36:47
said this baby is definitely deformed. It's not going to work. Just abort it. And he says,
36:52
absolutely not. We trust God. And he's got he's got wonderful kids. The kid was completely healthy.
36:56
So yeah, thank you for mentioning that. Kyle, can I mention something else that we're doing
37:00
that's super exciting? Yeah, go. It's outreach in London. You may not know that King Charles is
37:06
going to be conrated on the 6th of May. Do you know that? He's going to lay his hand on the Bible
37:12
in a church service. He's going to, he's going to promise before God to uphold the biblical truth of
37:17
salvation by grace through faith without works. He's going to be given three swords, one's a blunt
37:23
sword, the sword of mercy, one's a sharp sword, the sword of justice, and the other's a sort of
37:27
of civil law. He's going to carry an orb, which is a type of Christ having dominion over the whole
37:33
world. He's going to be anointed with oil. He's going to be prayed over. And this is going to be
37:37
witnessed by literally hundreds of millions around the world. Hundreds of millions are going to line
37:43
the streets of London to see a gold coach with a crown king. And they're going to call out God
37:50
to save the king. He's going to carry a scepter as David carried when he was coronated and saw a
37:55
Solomon saw. And so I thought about six months ago, this would be a wonderful opportunity to bounce
38:02
off this church where the whole world's going to church and proclaim the gospel. And so I made a
38:08
little video just saying this to send to our team a very rough video. And just after I sent the
38:12
video, I got an email from a gentleman who said, "What are you working on?" So I told him I sent him the
38:18
video and he sent a ministry $200,000. Showed someone else the video. He sent $100,000. Showed
38:24
someone else. They sent $50,000. So what we're doing is we've encouraged Christians to go to London on
38:30
May the 6th. And we've supplied $5 million of a gospel tract with King Charles on the front and
38:36
the gospel on the back to give out because these are memorabilia. The world is going to crazy over
38:41
these. They're going to love them because even the secular world knows how crazy the world is about
38:45
the whole world family, especially in America. We're also giving away 500,000 copies of a book called
38:52
Defender of the Faith, which is what Charles is called to be, Defender of the Faith. Not only are
38:57
these free, the 5 million tracts and the books, the 500,000 books, that book free, but we are paying
39:04
the shipping completely, no charge to get anywhere in Europe, anywhere in England, anywhere in Australia,
39:10
anywhere in New Zealand and anywhere in the US. So people can get details on how to get these free
39:16
books and these free gospel tracts by going to livingwaters.com/london. Completely free,
39:24
no teary motive. It's all paid for. Thanks to God. He's given me something better than a wet fleece.
39:29
He's given the money up front, which I'm delighted about.
39:31
That is excellent. I will make sure that we link to that in the show notes as well.
39:35
One thing before you go that I didn't want to get your comment on because I think this is all
39:39
coming down to this, which will make our last question of the day. Something I've heard a lot
39:43
recently, Ray, is from Christians, you know what? I want to be known for what I'm for,
39:48
not what I'm against. Now, I use that as a as a cheat code for that person that basically they're
39:55
cowardly in their countenance and they just want a piffy statement that easily fits on a t-shirt or
40:00
a bumper sticker to make them feel good about the fact that they don't want to engage in the so-called
40:04
culture wars. But the reality is like the culture is where the war happens. And so you're pushing
40:09
back this darkness, but that is how you're showing light to the culture that will hate Christ.
40:14
So talk to me a little bit about the people who live their lives on the statement. I want to be
40:18
known for what I'm for, not what I'm against. Well, I'm for the gospel of everlasting life.
40:24
I'm four sinners being saved from hell. I'm four pulling sinners from the fire,
40:28
hating even garments spotted by the flesh. I'm against people going to hell. I'm against
40:33
anyone dying in their sins. I'm for God with all my heart so I can be four against.
40:37
Yeah, you're right about people being wimpy and we're called to be salt and light, not just
40:42
salt, but light where to expose sinners sins before the day of wrath. And those who say that
40:48
Christians, but don't bother, let me glee them with the words of Charles Spurgeon, who said
40:53
that if we aren't concerned for the last, he said, "If you have no concern for the unsaved,
41:00
how do you know you're saved yourself?" That's what Spurgeon said. And so we need to examine
41:05
ourselves and say, "If we're being the faith and love will warn, love will never let anyone go
41:09
to hell. Love will reach out and stop someone from terrible danger. And if you don't have the love
41:16
of God in your heart, ah, I've got the quote from Spurgeon. I couldn't remember it. "Have you no
41:21
wish for others to be saved? Then you're not saved yourself? Be sure of that." That challenge
41:28
just means it should challenge everyone who professes to love God. I agree with that. That is a great
41:33
way to leave this. But that's all for me. Is there anything else you want to get off your chest?
41:36
I'd like to have more here on my chest, but nothing I want to get off.
41:39
Okay, Ray Comfort, thank you for coming on a Dotted Life of Man's podcast.
41:43
There you go, guys. I hope you enjoyed my time with Ray Comfort. But before we let you go,
41:46
we are going to do a quick resilience boost. Add on Dotted Life, our mission is equipping
41:49
men to push back darkness with content that forge a spiritual mental and physical resilience.
41:53
So here are the links that I've got for you today. I've got a link to the Living Waters website,
41:56
so you can get to all the stuff that we talked about in this episode, including the thing that
41:59
he talked about with the livingwaters.com, front slash or back slash London. So you can get all that
42:04
there. I've got a link to so many lines, so few Daniel, so you guys can pick up a copy for yourself.
42:09
And then I've got another link to all of his other books. So if you want to collect all the Ray
42:12
Comfort books, you can get it right there on that link. Thank you, guys, for listening to this
42:16
episode. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe. Ray and leave us a positive five-star
42:19
review. If you want to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, you shoot me an email to
42:23
info@andontin.life. That's i-n-f-o@andontin.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and
42:29
check out our website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this
42:33
coming your way. Just go to www.andontin.life. And as always, we want to thank the band,
42:37
August Burns Red for allowing us to use their music for our content. The music on this podcast
42:42
is our song, Cutting the Tides, which is off their 10th anniversary re-recording of their album
42:45
leveler. The links are in the description. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back
42:52
darkness. Keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
43:22
[Music]