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This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
0:53
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
0:54
Let's get into it.
0:55
All right, guys.
0:57
We've got a special guest on the podcast today.
0:58
His name is Mike Dragich.
1:00
He is a Marine veteran, MMA fighter, a licensed alligator trapper for the state of Florida,
1:05
and loves Jesus.
1:06
That should be enough to at least get your attention for what we're going to be talking about today.
1:11
But also he is the founder of Project Savior Outdoors.
1:15
So their mission is to fight PTSD and veteran suicide by connecting with the great outdoors
1:20
and sharing the true freedom that comes through Jesus Christ.
1:23
And so this was an introduction by Joby Martin.
1:25
So he is Joby Martin's pastor.
1:27
But this guy, he's such an interesting guy and in this particular conversation,
1:30
we started out with the whole alligator thing because he's gone viral here in the last month or so
1:34
by wrestling and trapping this 10 foot long alligator that was in an elementary school parking lot
1:40
down there in Jacksonville, Florida.
1:42
So we talk about the alligator stuff.
1:43
Like how do you even get into something like that?
1:45
What are some of the mistakes that people would potentially make with alligator trapping
1:49
or wrestling or whatever that kind of stuff?
1:50
And so we talk about that.
1:51
But we also talk about kind of its crazy upbringing.
1:54
And at one point during his life, you know, in his late teenage years, he was actually shot
1:59
at point blank range and probably should be dead today.
2:01
Not even probably he should be dead today.
2:04
But through the grace of God and through some healing and some really miraculous things that
2:08
happened in his life, he accepted Jesus Christ.
2:11
And you know, he's been just forever changed from that moment.
2:14
You can just see when how he talks about it.
2:16
And we kind of weave in and out on this particular conversation throughout a lot of things.
2:20
So we talk about the Marine Corps and we talk about his time there, but we talk about
2:24
soft Christians and soft Christianity and the problem with a lot of these churches
2:28
that either don't focus on the men at all or they just do some men's events.
2:31
And you know, some of the stuff that we talk about on the show quite a bit.
2:34
And so we talk about kind of what that could look like.
2:37
We spend some time talking about projects, save your outdoors because that is a great thing
2:41
that of all the things he does with the MMA and the alligator stuff and like all the training he does,
2:48
jujitsu and all that kind of stuff, like it's project, save your outdoors.
2:51
He is passionate about saving the lives of veterans because he was part of the Marine Corps.
2:57
And you know, a lot of guys that he knows have committed suicide over the years.
3:02
And so they're trying to get guys out in the outdoors, get them hunting, get them fishing,
3:06
but then not just do the event stuff, but get them into community.
3:10
Because you know, the drill, like you could go to an event and be very, you know, entertained.
3:15
But if you're not in community with other believers with other men that are going to help you up,
3:19
help shoulder some of your burns and you shoulder some of their burns, it's going to run out for you.
3:24
And at the end, we talk a little bit about MMA and his particular MMA style,
3:27
because he's getting into MMA, MMA a little bit later than what people are getting into MMA.
3:31
Now we talk about, you know, our different MMA, Mount Rushmores and things like that.
3:36
So it was a great conversation. I really enjoy my time with them.
3:38
So without further ado, let's get into it.
3:40
My drag it's welcome to adults life of man's podcast.
3:44
Thanks for having me.
3:45
Now we were just making fun of our mutual buddy, Joby Martin off Eric because apparently
3:50
I just nailed how to pronounce your last name, but he's never actually gotten it right.
3:53
Is that correct? He's only ever mispronounced your last name?
3:56
I think he's the only person that's known me for five years and has never pronounced my name,
4:01
right? Now for, I don't know if you know this, but we have, we have a show on Sundays called
4:05
the forging tables where, you know, me and three other laymen get together and we study the Bible
4:09
together. And Joby's always the first one to point out when we mispronounce a word, when we say the
4:14
Hebrew incorrectly or when we do it improperly. So I'm just glad that now we have finally uncovered
4:20
a moment where the one the only the holy Joby Martin is just not perfect. Isn't that great that
4:25
we figured that out? He really is a man. He's human. Yeah, he is. That is great to know.
4:32
He does a lot of things really, really, really well, pronouncing my last name is not one of them.
4:37
All right. Well, we'll give him a pass on that because and maybe if we find other things that
4:41
he's bad at, we can get on to that. So when I was thinking about our conversation today, Mike,
4:45
because this will be more like a conversation, less of an interview, it's like, okay, you do so
4:49
many different things and you've done so many different things that are interesting. That'll
4:53
be interesting to our audience. But I feel like we would be making a mistake if we didn't start
4:58
off with what made you go viral here in the last, you know, couple of months or so. Because something
5:04
that you do, and I don't know if this is for fun or because you're insane or whatever, but you like
5:08
to trap alligators or maybe it's called alligator, rasseling or alligator hunting or whatever. I don't
5:13
know exactly how you would categorize it. But in June, you went viral for corralling this 10 foot,
5:19
you know, dinosaur that was in some elementary school on Jacksonville and then, you know,
5:23
you got on Fox News and all those other different places. So let's just start from the beginning.
5:27
I guess two part question. One, are you insane in two? Why in the world are you out there trying
5:31
to catch dinosaurs for 11? So part one, yes, you know, but we're all a little insane. I do love
5:37
to do it, man. I'm a floater boy. So catching things and being dangerous is what I like to do.
5:42
But, you know, I feel like the Lord really put that opportunity in my path for a reason, you know,
5:48
to give me a platform to be able to use. For I'm sure what we'll talk about here in a bit. But,
5:53
you know, I was sitting down eating with my family. It was Sunday night. I was sitting around in my
5:59
underwear. Just finished dinner, man. And I get this phone call from the state nuisance alligator
6:06
hotline. So I'm a state trapper for Duvall County. So I take all the alligator permits
6:12
that get, you know, sent to the throughout the community. And then I go and I respond to these
6:17
calls, catch and remove the alligators. So this one particularly was at a elementary school parking
6:24
lot. I get a phone call. I go out. I show up. There's lights, police, fire all over the place.
6:33
And these guys are like, Hey, man, this is a big one. So we walked through that. Yeah, yeah. We
6:38
walked through the gate. And, uh, bro, there's bad boys sitting there just staring right at us,
6:44
man. Full of life, full of energy just bowed up. And I was like, okay, all right, I didn't show
6:51
it. But I was thinking I was like, man, this is going to be, this is going to be sketch. But
6:55
with all those people in the news crews, you know, you had to keep it together. I had to act like,
7:00
you know, it wasn't the thing. So I blasted through there, like I was stone cold. And, uh,
7:06
we handled business, man. Well, hey, no, I feel like we need to back up here a little bit. Okay,
7:12
because it's like, okay, you just said, Oh, I'm a Florida boy. I like to catch things and trap
7:16
things or whatever. And then you just fast forward to a 10 foot alligator. And you know,
7:19
I've heard you explained it before, you know, you kind of tire them out and then you can kind of
7:22
troll them a little bit more. But let's, let's be more technical here. I can't just believe because
7:27
you, you grew up in a particular state that you were just born with the skills that it takes to
7:32
take on a beast like that. So let's let's break this down scientifically. How does one begin
7:37
their, you know, life in, you know, figuring out how to handle an animal like that, and then,
7:42
you know, kind of sharpen the sword as we go along. It's hidden secrets, man, but I'll tell
7:46
them to you. Perfect. Yeah, don't worry. I won't tell anybody else. Yeah, you ever hear a DIY?
7:53
Of course. Yeah. Watch a lot of YouTube videos watching YouTube videos. What's wrong with you?
8:00
Watch a lot of YouTube, man. I grew up. I grew up watching Steve Irwin, Turtleman. Yeah.
8:07
But honestly, the truth is my buddy, Jeb Rowe, down in South Florida, he's in the Everglades.
8:15
He, uh, he's an Everglade outlaw, man, a true, true Florida boy. He actually was the one that
8:22
taught me how to wrangle alligators and how to get more hands on with these things. So I give a lot
8:28
of that credit to him because he's the he's the actual guy that taught me, um, you know, how to
8:33
cross that line and start putting hands on these animals. Uh, and that's where all the fun began.
8:39
Okay. So I guess, tell me this, like, I'm sure people have gotten things wrong when wrangling
8:45
alligators and typically they have the scars or the missing limbs to show for it. But what are
8:49
aside from just, um, I guess underestimating the animal that they're dealing with? What are the
8:54
mistakes that people make whenever they come up on an alligator? You know, let's say a trapper.
8:58
Let's say someone that thinks they know what they're doing. What are some of those common
9:02
mistakes that get people into trouble? Uh, you know, a big one is a lot of people think they can
9:07
just go and mess with alligators before they're tired. If an alligator is full of energy,
9:13
they can get you way faster than you can get away. They can get you from any angle that you can think
9:18
of, nose to tail. Uh, so you've got to get them tired before you start messing with them. Um,
9:23
another thing is you never put your hand to the side of an alligator's mouth. Uh, I don't care
9:30
how quick, how experienced you are. You don't leave a finger. You don't leave a limb, a foot,
9:34
anything, uh, outside of that animal's, you know, peripheral. Uh, I always keep my hands above the
9:41
animal or directly below the animal. Um, because they can reach and get you really, really quick.
9:47
So, uh, those are probably the two main ones. Um, and, and you know, the third I would have to say is,
9:53
is confidence and fear. Uh, you know, as well as anybody, um, hesitancy will get you killed. Um,
10:02
lack of confidence and hesitation when dealing with a big huge reptile like that.
10:07
It's a recipe for disaster. So you've got to be confident. You've got to have some experience
10:12
to build that confidence. But once it's there, man, you just like anything. You out there and have
10:16
some fun. Okay. So you have a wife and kids, right? A wife and four kids. So why are you smiling?
10:24
Cause you know, you know, exactly where I'm going with this mic. So when you get the call that says,
10:29
Hey, Mike, you know, we've, we've got this dinosaur out here. He's scaring the kids and, and all the
10:33
dogs in the neighborhood. And I think he's eating a couple. Like is your wife, is she just, you know,
10:37
is that what Florida girls do? Does she just all the way down for that? She cheering you on? Or is
10:41
she worried? Man, if you knew my background praise God, I'm still here. Uh, some of the stuff from my
10:48
past. She is not surprised one bit that this is where I'm at at 34 years old. Uh, you know,
10:55
catching alligators and fighting in a cage for a living. Okay. Well, we'll get into, we'll get
11:01
into a little bit of that. Uh, let's, let's go to the thing you talked about a little bit earlier
11:05
when you talked about platform because, you know, the alligator stuff is what's kind of made you,
11:10
you know, go viral here the summer. But as you've kind of alluded to and mentioned, like you've,
11:15
you've done a lot of other stuff and there's a lot of other things that, that you're trying to do.
11:18
So I guess we can rewind back all the way to your late teenage years. As far as I understand it,
11:25
that's when you join the Marine Corps, you got a tatted there on your right arm. So I guess what
11:29
sent you in the direction of the United States Marine Corps, because, you know, Marines, of course,
11:34
you're never retired. Like you may become a veteran Marine, but you're never not a Marine.
11:38
It's, it's a different, it's a different type of animal. Those, those, the folks in the Marines,
11:42
they do more with less, you know, the few, the proud, like, you know, simplify, we get all that
11:47
stuff. But for you, for Mike, why go the Marine route, as opposed to any of the other options you
11:53
had. So, uh, have I shared with you my testimony yet? No, and light it up. Let's go. All right.
12:01
So I'll make it short because it's a long one. So when I was 19 years old, man, I grew up in a,
12:05
in a rough part of Ohio, my parents moved me to Southwest Florida for middle school, high school.
12:12
I always found myself as an athlete. I wrestled growing up. But I was always that. I always found
12:18
myself in trouble, man, in situations where I was getting in fist fights as a kid, getting beat
12:25
up all the way through middle school, where I started to be able to defend myself into high
12:29
school, to where I just wanted that justice to be served. And, and, uh, I was kind of trying to
12:36
play Robin Hood, man, and, and protect the weak and button for people that couldn't stand up for
12:41
themselves. At that point that I knew that I had the ability to do so. So anyway, I went down this
12:47
rough path of fighting all the time down in Southwest Florida. And it led to me getting shot,
12:52
point blank with a 45 hollow point. Luckily, I was pushed out of the way from further rounds
12:58
by my buddy who got shot and hit through the forearm. Um, I essentially bled out. I took off
13:05
running that night after I was shot and, uh, went unconscious in a backyard about, I don't know,
13:11
a mile and a half away from, uh, where I had gotten shot unconscious and my buddy, uh,
13:17
what's, what's pretty cool and crazy, man, is, is I think what bought me some time was, I remember
13:24
when I got shot, it was a gaping hole in my chest shoulder area right here. And it was
13:31
pouring out of me like a gallon of milk. And at 19 years old, I had a, a survival instinct to go
13:38
three fingers deep to stop the bleeding before I had a thought of being a marine or anything like
13:45
that. We have that in us. And that's what some people, especially these younger kids and these
13:49
younger men, I'm just scared to death that they don't have, um, or that they don't see. We'll get
13:56
to that, but I don't, I know they have it, but I'm afraid they don't see it. Those instincts of
14:02
older generations, um, anyway, so three fingers deep. I stopped the bleeding for a little while,
14:08
end up going unconscious, passing out, losing blood. Uh, my buddy who is my only
14:13
hunting friend at the time, uh, six, five, probably two 65 track my blood trail. Uh, and actually,
14:20
that's how he found me pitch black middle and nowhere. Um, found me unconscious, picked me up,
14:26
rushed me back to where my buddy Matt, who had been shot in the forearm was waiting for me with the
14:31
vehicle. Uh, they gunned it to the hospital. Uh, these were some of the hardest, most savage men
14:38
that I knew at the time, uh, they were a little older than me. And, um, you know, I say all that
14:45
because these guys were the same guys that were praying for me in the car on the way to the hospital,
14:51
uh, thinking that I wasn't going to make it at that moment in time. What did they rely on at that
14:57
worst moment? You know what I mean? And we'll get there too. But anyway, we pull into the ER, uh,
15:05
they said at that moment, I became conscious. I don't know how, but by the grace of God,
15:11
I walked into the ER, kicked open an empty door, laid in an empty hospital bed. Luckily got the
15:17
help that I needed. Uh, and, and I survived that night. So it's at that moment that, uh, I decided,
15:25
hey, I really got to do something with myself. Um, I'm meant for bigger and better things.
15:30
Obviously God's given me another opportunity to prove that. Uh, so that's when I decided to go to
15:34
the Marine Corps, um, shortly after two weeks after I, uh, was out of the hospital, was taking a 45
15:43
hollow point to the, you know, blasting through my rotator cuff, lodging, passing my lung and my
15:47
brachial artery, lodging between my shoulder blade, uh, two weeks later, man, miraculous healing.
15:53
Um, that's when I decided that night I gave my life to the Lord and, uh, healed, bro,
16:00
healed. You know, I could care less who out there believes that, but for those of you that will at
16:06
least hear what I'm telling you, I had a miraculous healing in my life. The Lord healed me two weeks
16:11
after being shot, estimated six to nine month recovery, two weeks later, I was healed. I walked
16:19
in the Marine Corps recruiting station. This happened in July. I was graduating Paris Island
16:26
Marine Corps basic training as the company honor graduate. Thank you, Lord. Uh, that December.
16:33
So Mike, let's, let's back up a little bit. I don't want to just go over that too quickly,
16:38
the part where you're talking about the miraculous healing because I'll be real honest and I'm going
16:43
to be echoed by a lot of people in my audience. I'm very, very skeptical of any healing stories and,
16:50
you know, you'll even see these videos of people. It's typically at these, you know,
16:54
Benny Hinn type rallies where he takes all those jackets and smacks someone with them and all
16:58
of a sudden they, they throw their wheelchair and that kind of thing. And for me, even though I have
17:03
faith in a, you know, a mid 30s Jewish construction worker that he rose from the dead 2000 years ago,
17:10
it's hard for me to believe when somebody gets shot with a 45 and then then they're fine. And
17:15
then they go on to be the honor graduate with the Marine Corps, you know, through bootcamp and all
17:19
that. So, so talk to me and talk to anyone that may be like skeptical of that because it's like,
17:25
it's almost like, what was it, Mark nine, like, you know, when that the father's talking to Jesus,
17:29
it's like, I believe help my unbelief. So like, how do you normally deal with that? Because
17:33
technically you don't have to defend yourself. It just kind of is what it is. But like, man,
17:37
there is so much skepticism inside and outside of Christendom on stories just like that.
17:42
Yeah, no, and I agree. And I'm, I'm so, I'm so against, and I'll try to not bash anybody here,
17:50
but I'm so against all of those hyper dramatic and ridiculous stunts that people do when it comes to
17:59
the flashiness and for entertainment purposes or whatever. So that's not this.
18:10
From my experience, all I can tell you, and you're right, I don't need to explain myself,
18:15
but I will for the purposes of you giving me this platform and asking me to do so. I respect that
18:22
and I'm going to do it. This happened. I was shot in July, late July. I graduated in December
18:33
from Marine Corps basic training. In that time, I was shot with a 45 hollow point. I had a six to
18:42
nine month recovery. With that being said, before I left the hospital, my wife, who I was only friends
18:50
with at the time, I was friends with her brother. I played high school sports with her brother at
18:54
the time. She was four years older than me. So she was already in college, but she came to the
18:59
hospital to visit me. And she was actually one of the ones that said, "Hey, you need Jesus in your
19:04
life." So I said, "Okay, cool. She was with me when this happened. There was countless other
19:11
friends that went with me on this trip to Hamilton, Alabama, to where I was at when this all occurred
19:18
when I gave my life to the Lord, when I was healed. My wife, who was a dream in my eye at the time,
19:25
she was with me at that exact moment two weeks after I get out of the hospital when I was healed.
19:31
There were countless other people that were with me. So I'm happy to offline when I get to meet you
19:39
in person, man. I would love to be able to have you interact with with my wife and some of my
19:44
friends that were there to experience that with me, as well as just a physical aspect.
19:53
So how it occurred was I had staples. I was in a sling and I was stapled up. The wound,
20:02
you can see the 45 entered at an angle, missed my lung and my brachial artery,
20:10
lodged behind my shoulder blade. And luckily I was built like a brick house at the time. So
20:17
yeah, there you go. You know, no, but seriously, it lost my shoulder blade. So I had staples.
20:23
I was in a sling. I had no range of motion, gauze everything there. The night that I was healed,
20:30
I remember it ended with me lifting my hand thanking the Lord, knowing that I was miraculously healed,
20:39
full range of motion, no pain. But I was I was leaking blood. My staples were still in my arm.
20:48
I still had the sling. I took it off. All I know is that I went to the hospital following that trip,
20:56
told the doctor, I'm I'm healed. I'm good to go. I have full range of motion. I have
21:03
strengthened my shoulder. Everything is 100% good to go. They removed the staples. They put in
21:10
stitches or maybe they left the staples in for a little while to let the flesh wound heal,
21:16
but it was good to go, man. And after that flesh wound was healed and that was taken care of,
21:23
everything else is is is history, man. As far as as as far as miracles, dude, it's a miracle.
21:33
It's a miracle from my creator of the universe
21:37
that I will never be able to comprehend. And if anyone out there thinks that they can comprehend
21:45
them, who do they think they are? You know, that's an actually an interesting way of putting it because
21:52
and I guess it's because there are people that have dramatic stories like that. And then there
21:55
are people that just have normal stories like, Oh, they were in, you know, vacation Bible school
21:59
and they were eight years old. And that's when when God called them. And then you can get into,
22:03
you know, election and pre determinism and you can get into a lot of different theological areas.
22:08
And then that's fine. Like I'm fine having those conversations. I've had those conversations a lot.
22:12
But I've just got through reading a book by Justin Briarley. It's his latest book. And he was
22:17
talking about how when you see these conversions of these high-minded intellectuals, these scientists,
22:24
these philosophers, these people that, you know, their brains could power a city if they needed to.
22:29
These people's transitions from non-Christian to Christian isn't just intellectual. There's
22:35
always some sort of an unexplainable personal happenstance, whether it's a healing or a changing
22:43
of their mind or, you know, it's just basically the Holy Spirit that's just basically like,
22:47
Hey, come on, like let's go. And it's God calling them back to himself. And so it's an interesting
22:53
story just to even kind of couch it that way. And so I guess for you, Mike, that's your big light
22:59
bold moment. You join the Marine Corps and then you go in. But I mean, that's not the end of your
23:04
story. So let's talk a little bit about your time in the military. Like how long did you serve? Did
23:08
you deploy? I mean, because obviously if you if you graduate top of your bootcamp class or whatever,
23:14
like the assumption is that you're probably going to go downrange at some point and we were still
23:18
fighting the GWOT at the time. Yeah, so real quick just to go back on the whole miracle thing.
23:24
And I know that you said a lot of the viewers and yourself is, you know, sometimes a doubter of
23:28
miracles. All I have to say is this. I'm kind of right there with you. It's a very weird position
23:37
for me to be in because I know what the Lord has done in my life through that miracle. Okay.
23:43
But I'm still right there with you as a human being that still questions other miracles. It's
23:51
the craziest thing like like it's almost insulting. I feel bad even saying it, but I still do.
23:58
But that's life. I feel like that is faith. I feel like that's a huge part of faith. I feel like
24:05
any time that I have questions, all I can do is continue to have faith and get more educated
24:13
from people like yourself and Pastor Joby and the Lars Peterson's and and all of the great,
24:20
you know, Christian men out there that influenced my life. But all I can tell for the people out
24:24
there is, man, but God. He can. He can do it and and just continue to put your faith in him
24:33
and move forward. That's all I can say, man. So that's just my story. And I hope it touches
24:38
somebody and gives them the strength and the courage and the faith to push through in one of
24:42
those moments. Well, and one thing on that, Mike, I always feel the need to point this out because
24:48
I've had some people on my show that have just crazy stories, like just these insane, insane
24:52
stories, right? And this would would be another one. That's just like, it's a crazy, dramatic story.
24:57
I don't want anyone out there. And I know that you're going to echo this. To those of you that
25:01
are listening that are like, well, I don't have a dramatic story. Does God not want to use me the
25:06
same way that he's using Mike or one of these other people? It's like, don't fall for the comparison
25:11
trap of someone else's story being crazier than yours. Like, you know, yeah, there are people that
25:16
get saved while they've got the needle still in their still in their arm or the belt wrapped around
25:21
it around their arm. And you know, they're they're basically fading off into the nether regions.
25:25
And then they never want to have, you know, illicit drugs ever again. Yes, that's a very
25:29
dramatic story. There are people that have gone overseas, fought, you know, Navy SEALs like those,
25:33
those types of things are very cool for books and they're cool for podcasts. But don't diminish
25:39
yourself. That's like a spirited diminishment in your ear. If you're like, well, I don't have Mike's
25:43
story. So God can't use me the same way. It's nonsense. And I'm assuming you would agree with that.
25:48
100%. Their story is still being written. You don't know what's around the corner.
25:53
We all need to attack it the same way. And that's 100%. Regardless of what your past is and regardless
26:01
of what your future is looking like, if you push forward with everything that you have,
26:05
man, it's only up from here, whether you're at the lowest of the low as long as you push forward
26:11
and don't stop, man, and keep your eyes pointed to him, bro, you're going to have your, you're
26:20
going to have your valleys, but I promise you'll come out of them. Well, and Mike, we live in this
26:24
clout chaser environment to where it's like, you know, whatever you got to do for the gram, right?
26:29
You will ruin your family vacation so that you can get that one picture that's going to get you
26:33
an extra 10% alike. So, you know, over your last post or something like that. And again,
26:38
I'm kind of steeped in that world because, you know, people only have so many podcasts they
26:42
listen to or that they watch. And so I'm trying to get their attention and keep their attention
26:46
like, hey, look over here, like I'll be the dancing monkey. And to a degree, it's like,
26:50
I have to start out my preparation for every show and everything I do with Undaunted Life with an
26:55
audience of one. And back when the show had tens of listeners, right, I put the same amount of effort
27:02
into an interview or into an episode as I do now when our show is considerably bigger than that.
27:07
And I think that's, that's the takeaway to where it's like work is unto the Lord,
27:10
whether, you know, you're wrestling alligators or whether, you know, you're putting a podcast
27:14
together or doing a spreadsheet for your boss, it doesn't matter. Work is under the Lord like
27:18
that, that audience of one, it's a huge deal. Yeah, yeah. And the whole thing with, with Jesus
27:23
man and Christianity is love. And one thing that I hate about the world right now is they try to
27:29
paint Christianity as so soft. They try to paint Christianity as soft. And dude, it's the furthest
27:37
thing from that. Hard men can love hard, if that makes sense. The fact that, that men like, dude,
27:46
you, you know, the jockos, the David Goggins, the Tim Kennedy's, the campaign, these guys,
27:51
they're the image of hard, right? The reason they can love so, so good, which they all do to their
28:00
brothers and sisters around them is because they're so hard themselves. They're so confident in what
28:06
they believe in. I hope those guys know the Lord and if they don't, dude, I would love to tell them
28:12
about. But if they do great, dude, like, I'm just saying those guys, the reason they have such an
28:18
influence is because they're hard themselves. And I don't just mean hard because of fighting or
28:23
because of like war or things like this. I just mean that they're confident in who they are.
28:28
And with them being fulfilled and confident in who they are, they're able to love other people.
28:34
And to me, that's what Christian men should be pushing for and aiming for, not sipping freaking,
28:40
you know, whatever the heck and wearing all these skinny freaking, you know,
28:45
holy jeans and getting their lips pierced and stuff. Like, I don't know, man. I, I, that was
28:53
totally just mental. And that was my personal preference. So listen, you got to go ahead and take
29:00
that what you want. Well, I hear I'll save you a little bit, but let's camp out a little bit.
29:04
On that because I would argue, Mike, that it's not society that's saying Christianity, it's soft,
29:10
soft. It's modern Christianity saying, yeah, we're soft. Like we're harmless. It's like,
29:15
that's why, you know, when we talk about unto life, we talk about equipping men to push back
29:20
darkness by providing content that for just spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
29:25
And part of the reason why the logo is the line of Judah is because churches don't talk about the
29:29
line of Judah very much. We love to talk about the Lamb of God. We love to talk about grace.
29:34
We love to talk about understanding and all those things. The things that are harder for us to talk
29:38
about, line of Judah, judgment, the fact that God is not cute and cuddly. And Jesus is the boyfriend
29:45
version of God that we can just snuggle up with. God is terrifying. Like if we were in his presence,
29:50
people are like, if I saw God, I would say this is like, if you saw God, you would say nothing.
29:54
You would be melted. Yeah, you would be melted in a puddle on the floor before you would say
30:00
anything to him. But the whole thing about it is I feel like modern ministries, a lot of them.
30:05
I've talked with Joby about this a lot. They don't make the churches man friendly. And so men,
30:12
if they get the sense that they're not wanted or needed or desired, they will go do something else.
30:17
So on Sunday morning, you know, they're they're at the shooting range or they're at the gym or
30:21
they're getting ready for a fancy football draft or they're playing video games or they're doing
30:25
something else. Because when they go to church, it's like, all right, it's just some dude giving
30:30
me Ted talk sermons. I don't need any of this. All the volunteer opportunities are for women.
30:35
All the songs are like homo erotic and the lyrical content sucks. And it's just kind of like a man's
30:41
going to go where a man feels like he could do something and for the most part in modernity.
30:45
That's not at church. Now this is something I talk about all the time. What say you about it all?
30:51
I completely agree. I think pastor Joby and the church of 11 22 does an amazing job at putting
30:56
an emphasis on the men and pulling the men off the couches and off the off the fishing boats on
31:03
Sunday mornings to get in the seats and hear what the Bible says. Not what he has to say,
31:12
but what the Bible says. He's amazing in delivering that, but he's speaking pretty much exactly what
31:18
the Word of God says. And that's what men and women need to hear. And I go back to what I said
31:26
about the looks and stuff, you know what I mean? I was kind of joking, but my point in that was that
31:31
Christianity on a large scale has become so universal. And when the majority of men think of Christianity,
31:40
they think of that universal look, that universal music, that universal boohoo, like soft side of
31:51
things. It's emotionalism. It's emotionalism. Yeah, you nailed it. And that's what I meant by
31:56
that. So there's nothing wrong with those things, but we have got to bring it all back to the real
32:05
importance of what we're doing on this earth. There's spiritual warfare going on around us, man.
32:11
And you can't fight that by not getting fed what the Word of God says. We spend so much time
32:20
training men, I'm answering your question here, we spend so much time training for the upcoming
32:26
hunting season, for our sports, for our bodies, all for our jobs to get the next promotion. But
32:36
we've got, we've got more evil running rampant around us in and around our homes and our workplaces,
32:45
but yet we're not putting in the time to train spiritually. You've got all this crazy, psychotic,
32:53
demonic pedophilia crap that's coming out nowadays. And you just want to hear about it and then go
33:01
back to training yourself physically and mentally, emotionally, but not spiritually. Think about that
33:10
for a split second. If you really want to do something about that to fight it, man, you've got to fight
33:15
spiritually. When I think you're absolutely right in, and part of the thing is, I think you were
33:20
being a little bit too generous because a lot of guys don't work on any of that. Like they don't
33:24
work on their bodies, they don't work on their minds, they don't work on anything because we've
33:29
gotten so used to being just fat and lazy. And we don't have to go out to get our food. The food
33:35
can just be brought to us. It can be delivered to us, or we can go to a store, not even have to
33:40
see the animals blood, but just buy its meat after it's been wrapped in cellophane and those types of
33:44
things. But I would say for most men, there's, there's a gap of godly men that they can look after
33:52
and look towards as a model, right? And some people would say, Hey, just read the Bible,
33:57
just read the accounts of Jesus. That's the model. And I would agree with you. In the practical day
34:01
to day living, there's a reason why men, why young virile men follow generals, right? They
34:10
follow generals into battle. Now they're not stronger than these generals. Like they're younger,
34:14
they're more vibrant, but the generals have that age to them. You know, like an MMA,
34:18
the most terrifying thing is an older fighter on TRT. Why? Because they're mimicking their younger
34:24
body, but they've got all of the track record and all the knowledge. There's a fighting. That's a
34:29
terrifying human being for a lot of reason. That's Ubering, right? And so there, there are a lot of
34:35
issues, which I guess the thing is, is like people are like, Oh, you're being too critical. But it's
34:39
like, no, like, if you're at a church and you're thinking, how can I turn this story about something
34:44
that happened to me as a pastor into a sermon series, you're not doing it correctly. You do need
34:48
to point people to the word, but also we need to call men up. And the number of times, Mike,
34:54
that I've watched these, you know, these videos or whatever of these men going and preaching at
34:59
these men's events or whatever. And they're fat, slovenly, just sloppy human beings. Like,
35:05
being a good Christian doesn't mean you have an eight pack and 20 inch biceps. But it's like,
35:09
you're telling all these men, you're trying to call them into something greater, but it's clearly
35:13
something that you don't even have the discipline to do yourself. It's like it's inauthentic to me.
35:17
Yeah, no, I'm right there with you. I am not going to be able to hear clearly or be fed by
35:25
somebody that I don't genuinely have a respect for. I'm not saying I don't have respect for people
35:31
that aren't in shape or that don't have six highly successful careers. That's not what I'm saying.
35:40
But what I'm saying is from a church aspect, when we're talking about pulling men
35:44
on Sunday morning to a specific place for a specific training evolution, which is
35:53
our spirit in this sense, it does take a form of leadership to pull those men in. And luckily,
36:03
I have that here in Jacksonville. A lot of men that I know around the country, they do have that,
36:09
but there's so, so many that are lost that do not have that. And there's a lot of men out there
36:15
that are approaching it from a tough angle, like you just said yourself.
36:20
Well, Mike, I'm working on some things behind the scenes that will hopefully address this crisis,
36:25
because for years, Mike, I would get emails from church members or church leaders or pastors,
36:31
and they would ask me some level of, how do we start a men's ministry? What are the best
36:36
men's ministries that we could possibly have? And what are the events we could have? Who are the
36:39
speakers we could bring in like that kind of stuff? And in and of itself, those are not
36:44
problematic questions. They're just the wrong questions. And finally, it hit me one day to kind
36:49
of change my verbiage. And this was based on a lot of different conversations. But I was like,
36:53
you don't need to worry about making a men's ministry. You need to worry about making your
36:57
church man friendly. That's the difference. Because if you have a men's ministry and you have all
37:03
these cool events and all that type of stuff, but the sermon content is still fairly effeminate.
37:08
The music is still fairly effeminate. All the volunteer opportunities are for women and children.
37:13
It's like how long until that goes away? Same thing with these organizations that promise
37:18
keepers back in the day or any of these types of organizations where they do this big event,
37:21
right? And that's all they do. They just do a big event and then nothing else. It's cool for a day.
37:28
It's cool while you're there. But then you get home and you get into your normal cadence of your
37:33
everyday life and your rhythm and you just kind of lose the thread a little bit. It's like, no,
37:39
that's that's where the churches should be able to sustain you as a man as you are being
37:44
discipled. And that's another thing. Mike, we're getting into all these different subject matters.
37:47
How many men are sitting under leadership in churches and they're not being discipled?
37:51
They're being entertained. There's a great show going on. Like, you know, they can download the
37:55
album that the worship band made and all that, but that's it. Like, and those in and of itself are
38:00
not bad things, but it's like, that's not what's going to sustain your spirit. That's not going to
38:04
help you as you continue to be sanctified and grow in discipleship, you know, over years and years
38:09
until you hit that sage stage. You know what I mean? Yeah, oh, I know what you mean. Yeah. So,
38:13
at our church, we actually have discipleship groups outside of church and they highly,
38:19
highly encourage guys and women. They have men's groups. They have women's groups. They have,
38:24
you know, co-ed groups, but these groups are designed to build community outside of church.
38:30
I think that church on Sunday is almost like our training ground. That's like where I like to go
38:36
to get fed the word, to get fired up and to learn and to build tools and sharpen my skills,
38:42
to go fight these battles that we call life, okay? But that only lasts for Sunday morning.
38:50
And then Monday hit you and then you're back to root, you know, real life. But when you're able
38:55
to have a discipleship group or a brotherhood outside of that Sunday morning church,
39:02
dude, it pulls you along so, so far. We've actually started a discipleship group with
39:11
Project Savior Outdoors, which is my nonprofit organization. That way, we can get guys from all
39:17
over the country, one plugged into the outdoors, as we do life together and plug into the outdoors,
39:24
all things hunting and fishing, we can also dig into the word together and do life with each other.
39:29
Yeah, I want to talk a little bit more about Project Savior Outdoors, but I do want to make
39:34
a clarifying statement here. We're not advocating, guys, listening to this, that in order to be a
39:40
good man, that you have to be the most typically masculine man. Like I think I've heard, you know,
39:45
Joby say where it's like, it's not big muscles and four wheel drive trucks and beef jerky and
39:49
hunting and all that stuff that makes you a man, it makes you awesome, it makes you fun, but it
39:52
doesn't make you a man. But the pendulum has swung so far to the feelings aside, the emotionalism
39:59
side, to where the guys that are more stoic in their predisposition, they're going to walk into
40:04
a church and be like, this isn't for me. Like it seems like this church is trying to get me to be
40:09
emotive when emotions are not what is necessary. Because imagine, you know, use the foxhole analogy,
40:17
you're in a foxhole and you're taking rounds, right? You know, you've got rounds of wisdom past
40:21
your head. And that moment, it's not time for a Bible study, it's not time for everybody to hold
40:27
hands and to ask, Hey, how's everybody feeling in this moment? Now it's time to fight. Now it's
40:32
time to like, Hey, let's let's get through this, let's survive. And then we can talk about we can
40:37
work through our emotions later. And so that's why I talk about if you're going to have balance,
40:41
you need to have equal parts working on both sides as the pendulum is swinging. So it can't be way
40:47
too emotional, it can't be way too stoic has to be in the middle, it can't be all grace, it can't
40:51
be all truth, it's got to be in the middle can't be all lamb can't be all line. And so I did want to
40:55
kind of make that clarifying statement, because there are a lot of guys that will look at some of
41:00
the stuff that I do and some of the stuff that you do. And they're just like, well, that's not me,
41:02
that's not what I'm interested in. But what I tell guys like that all the time is like, I don't
41:07
care what you're into, like I don't care if you're into, you know, writing poetry and listening to,
41:12
you know, symphonies and, and, you know, cooking and all those different things. Those are hobbies,
41:17
those are interests. I care if you're spiritually mentally and physically resilient, because that's
41:23
something that has to be cultivated every day, not once a week on Sundays. That's something that
41:28
you've got to have a group of guys around you that are helping sharpen the sword, you know, the
41:33
iron sharpen iron concept, because that's what you need if you're going to continue to grow, you know?
41:38
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, 100% agree with you. Well, I want to talk a little bit more about
41:44
Project Savior Outdoors, because then maybe this can go back a little bit to discussing what you
41:48
did in the Marine Corps. So tell me about your nonprofit kind of, what's the focus of that?
41:53
When did you start it? Well, you know, what kind of led to Project Savior Outdoors?
41:57
So I was an engineer in the Marine Corps. I was with a third common engineer battalion in 29
42:02
palms. I deployed once to Afghanistan on a route clearance mission. I came back and
42:10
did my four years. I was a Marine Corps martial arts instructor trainer for the rest of the time
42:15
that I was in. I got out because I had my first child, which actually ended up being a miscarriage.
42:22
So that's a story in itself. But luckily, I had a child, another child shortly after that,
42:29
which is the reason that I wanted to get out of the Marine Corps, so that I could be, you know,
42:34
primarily there more often for my, for my kid. So I get out and then from that moment, until now,
42:42
it was one after the other and veteran suicide from our unit. So, and our unit consisted of,
42:51
obviously, everyone from office guys to the stone cold killers. But PTSD isn't what everyone thinks
43:02
of it just being the stone cold killers that suffered from it. There's guys from all walks of
43:09
the military and all walks of life in general that struggle with PTSD. And I've learned that
43:15
by seeing all aspects of these men commit suicide. And we've specifically lost 15 men
43:26
to suicide from my unit alone since just 2015. And that's the most, that's the most recent data
43:34
that I've got. So that's what I referenced to. Since 2015, we've lost 15 men from third common
43:40
engineer battalion to veteran suicide. And I thought to myself, two things. One, what am I
43:47
doing to help this problem? And are these men going to heaven? Like, like, are these men going
43:56
to heaven? I, I hate to think that that answer is no. You know what I mean? It, it hurts. It like
44:06
really, it really, really hurts me to think that. And it really just, it made me, it forced me to
44:16
make a decision to start up a nonprofit ministry that made it a priority to help veterans who
44:22
struggle with PTSD and veteran suicide, to get them the help that they need, connect them with
44:27
the great outdoors and share the true freedom that comes through Jesus. So what we do is specifically
44:34
sponsor veterans from all over the country. We hear their story, we share our story,
44:39
we take them on hunts, we get them plugged in outside, we tell them about Jesus, and then we
44:45
plug them in, bring them into our community and do life with them essentially as a discipleship group
44:50
moving forward. Okay, so does all this take place in Florida? Is it kind of spread out
44:55
throughout the US? So the hunts take place right now in Florida. We're actually in the process of
45:02
flying our first veteran to Florida for a trip. But we've done quite a few who have applied from
45:08
the South Eastern United States, get them here to our local area. And we've done everything from
45:14
alligator hunts to, to deer hunts, axes, black, black antelope, hog hunts, and all of it. So it's
45:22
really, really cool. So what's kind of the, the long term idea there, because we'll get into MMA
45:30
here in a second, because you're, you're doing some amateur MMA type stuff. And you know,
45:34
that takes quite a bit of time and effort. And so it's almost like people start their foundation
45:39
after their retirement, right? It's their retirement job. I could wait. So when you look out in the
45:46
future, what is it that you would love to see for the organization? I would like Project Xavier,
45:52
that community to be a nationwide organization that builds the biggest outdoor ministry for men,
46:00
for veterans, for first responders specifically, but all men who want a relationship with the
46:06
Lord to seek other men who, like you mentioned earlier, that they can look up to, that they can
46:11
find that wisdom, that they can be vulnerable with, that they can feel comfortable with,
46:15
and that they can just do life with all things pointed to Jesus. So what that looks like long-term,
46:21
as we grow, as we get additional funding, is I hope to be able to have Project Xavier outdoors
46:27
communities all over the United States, being able to find guys in those local areas, plug them in,
46:33
take them hunting, take them fishing, and plug into a local small group community and do life
46:38
with each other all over the United States. And I know that's going to be built with partners,
46:44
like Vortex Optics, HHA, USA, 10-point crossbows. I mean, we've already got so much support
46:50
and sponsorships from these large, large companies that are already supporting us and rocking with
46:55
us and promoting us in their states and their areas of the United States that we're traveling
47:01
to, that we're meeting individuals and we're already getting stuff built. So that's probably
47:07
like going to happen quick, quick, is have this thing going all over the United States.
47:12
Further, with more funding, I would love to eventually have like a Project Xavier ranch.
47:20
And I truly believe that one day that'll happen, to where we can have a spot to wear veterans,
47:26
suffering, recovered, or just that want to support other men, first responders and veterans that
47:33
are struggling, come in to the state of Florida and support these veterans, man, show them love,
47:39
dig into the word with them, be able to hunt fish, all things outdoors, and just use it as an actual
47:48
like community builder for the veteran community in the United States. I think that there's so much
47:55
out there that's just, it's not, it's not effective. And I know that Jesus man, that's the way.
48:01
One, it's, you keep saying the word community, it's events versus community. And so when I was
48:08
talking to churches about men's ministry, it's like, okay, they would describe what they were
48:12
doing. And I was like, well, this is your problem. You're putting on events, but you're not doing
48:15
ministry. Like you're, you're throwing that once a year bash, where everybody comes and eats meat,
48:20
listens to some speaker from the outdoor channel, come and talk, you know, and it's like, okay,
48:24
that's, that's fine. But don't, don't confuse this with actual ministry. And so it's one thing to
48:31
bring a guy out for a weekend, or a couple of weeks to do, you know, hunting, fishing, and camping,
48:35
and all that kind of stuff. It's another thing to place them in community, because it's that church
48:40
camp syndrome, like you go to church camp, you're all fired up. And then by Tuesday, you're back in
48:44
your normal swing. Yeah, it's over. And it's like, it just kind of wears off. And you know, you're
48:48
waiting for that next hit, a dopamine, right? You need another camp. You need another that. It's like,
48:52
no, no, what you need is a community. You need people around that the way I describe it, I talk
48:56
about foxhole guys, and I describe what a foxhole guy is. But the easiest way to think about it is,
49:01
do you have a bunch of 6 p.m. friends? Or do you have 2 a.m. friends? So 6 p.m. friends up until
49:07
about 6 p.m. If you call them and hey, I need your help or hey, you know, can you help me move
49:11
something? Hey, I brought your truck, blah, blah, about until about 6 p.m. They're there for you.
49:15
But then after that, oh, I'm busy or they just don't really answer their phone. But like you're
49:19
2 a.m. friends, you're 3 a.m. friends. Those are the dudes that you know that not only when you call
49:24
that they're going to answer, but you hear them getting ready. You hear them. Hey, man, what's up?
49:29
And they're pulling their pants on. They're putting their pistol in the appendix position
49:32
and they're grabbing a shovel because they assume we're burying a body. And we might have to kill
49:36
them first. Like those are the types of guys that you need in your life. Because I use that as like
49:40
a tongue and cheek extreme example. But it's those guys when you say, I think my marriage is over,
49:46
and I'm about to take my life. I can't do this anymore. They can't they it's the guys that drop
49:53
everything. They could have, you know, a fork with steak on it about to hit their mouth at a
49:57
business dinner. And they're dropping that to come and help you, right? Yeah, so many guys don't have
50:03
that. And it's because they're not they're not one of them guys, those guys themselves. They don't
50:08
seek out those types of opportunities. Maybe they put those opportunities at a stiff arm area.
50:13
So I love the fact that y'all are focusing on community, because that's what we have to have,
50:16
Mike, we have to have it. That's exactly what we're focused on, man. The hunting, the fishing,
50:22
the outdoor stuff is just a gateway to get them there to get them excited about it and to
50:26
honestly just break that ice. You know, some veterans, man, they have some serious, serious
50:33
walks of life, man. Way more intense than that I've ever been involved in. You know what I mean?
50:40
I know some veterans that just have done some there, they wouldn't want me to say this, but I
50:46
mean, heroic, heroic things. And there's some guys that have seen some [inaudible]. You know what I mean?
50:53
Like, yeah, listen, I'm not here to tell you or try to justify any of that. All I'm trying to do
51:03
is hear you, bro. All I'm trying to do is hear you and love you, bro. That's it. And that's all
51:10
I'm trying to build in this community. I know that there's going to be your paper pushers, and I know
51:15
that there's going to be your freaking whoever, you know, Medal of Honor guys. At the end of the day,
51:25
we're all brothers, dude. And those stories can impact one another. And if there's community there,
51:33
bro, I think that that's the most important thing right now for veterans is to actually
51:37
plug them in and keep them plugged in for the long term. Mike, you're absolutely right. I mean,
51:44
speaking of Marine Medal of Honor, winner Dakota Meyer has been on the show and he's a buddy of mine.
51:48
And we've talked about that a lot. So he's a firefighter now. And you would think like, oh,
51:52
he's going to walk around basically wearing his Medal of Honor. It's like, well, no,
51:56
like at different points, he doesn't even know where his Medal of Honor is. He's giving it to his
52:00
daughter who like wore it while she's, you know, running around her little princess outfit and
52:04
all those types of things, because he's not defined by that medal. And you know, as I talked to me,
52:09
it was like, look, that medal signifies the worst day of my life. That medal signifies the day I
52:14
lost every person on my team, right? The guys that I should have been there with, I was not there
52:19
to help protect them. And you know, what I ended up doing to try and protect life didn't work out
52:24
for me. So I think you're absolutely on the right track. We've teeted up enough times before we get
52:29
you out of here. I do think we need to do a little MMA talk, because here you are, you join the
52:34
Marines, people think you're crazy for doing that. Then you start a nonprofit organization,
52:37
people think you're crazy for doing that. Then you got a guy, you know, you got wrestle
52:41
alligators and you're definitely insane for doing that. But then now in your mid 30s, you're like,
52:45
you know what, I think I need to be an MMA fighter. I think I need to do some bare knuckle fighting.
52:50
Mike, what is, what's the deal here, man? Like, we can't just read, we can't just read books and
52:54
drink coffee like a normal person. Yeah, man. I think an outlet is very, very important.
52:59
I mean, for guys like me, so I'm going to tell you guys, listen, if you're struggling with anything
53:04
in life, you've got to have an outlet. I think an outlet's super important. And for me, I guess
53:09
it's adrenaline. That much is clear, Mike. That's not that's not like a shocking thing.
53:16
That's the least shocking thing you've said all day. Some some some good friends of mine.
53:20
They're actually a pretty cool sponsor of mine. Some veteran guys, they own a company called No
53:25
Mercy, No Quit. And their slogan is driven by adrenaline. And the reason I love it so much is
53:31
because it describes my entire life. So that adrenaline is my outlet. Whether it's catching
53:37
alligators or jiu-jitsu, I've been doing jiu-jitsu for a good while. I'm a purple mountain jiu-jitsu.
53:42
And I got to the point when, you know, I used to train at a fight team on the base. I've got a
53:49
real a lot of really good friends that grew up fighting. Some of them now, which are in the UFC.
53:54
Very, very successful fighters. And I was like, man, I got to do this. I can't be old one day and
53:59
look back and say, you never made this decision to go for it. So at, you know, at 33 years old,
54:05
I decided to jump into it. And I've been doing pretty well, you know, and I continue, I plan to
54:11
continue to do it while the Lord keeps me healthy. But yeah, bro, it's honestly just an outlet, man.
54:16
And I love the fact that my kids can see it and see that daddy's working hard. It keeps me
54:22
driven. It keeps me motivated. When you know that you're going to be fighting,
54:25
you know that there's somebody out there training hard to fight you. So you have no other option,
54:30
but to train hard to fight back. Okay. So obviously the training. So is this something that you're
54:37
going to, are you pursuing a professional career in this? Because I think you're still just doing
54:42
amateur like, is that kind of the goal? Do you have a goal in mind or is this just kind of like,
54:46
hey, short term stuff or what? So yeah, in Florida, you've got to have five amateur fights. So I've
54:50
got to fight one more time here coming up. And I'm going to be fighting in August in the cage.
54:54
But then my goal is to take my first professional fight. I've got a really cool opportunity with
54:59
Ken Shamrock's organization called Valor BK. It's a bare knuckle boxing promotion. I have the
55:06
opportunity to meet Ken and his manager Ted. Awesome men. And they've got a really, really good
55:13
promotion going there. So my goal is to fight in October and do a bare knuckle boxing fight.
55:20
Okay, so what is your, because you mentioned your wrestling high school. You do a little
55:23
jujitsu, your purple belt, just like me. So what, I guess what division do you fight in? What's
55:29
kind of like your style? Where do you like the fight? Because I know a lot of guys that wrestle
55:33
that just want to stand and bang, you know what I mean? So kind of what's, what's all that?
55:36
Yeah, so my Instagram handles blue collar brawler. So I'll tell you what, you know, I've won some,
55:41
I've lost some, but they've all been entertaining. And the fans are never disappointed with me. So
55:48
I will say I'm naturally a wrestler. I like to get the fight to the ground, but I tend to stand
55:52
up and just freaking throw my hands and have fun with it. So, but if it does go to the ground,
55:59
I'm confident and I usually end up pounding them out. So middleweight or you middleweight,
56:04
welterweight, middleweight, 185. I'm actually a small middleweight. I should be fighting at 70.
56:09
I walk around around 195, 200. A lot of those guys are actually fighting 70, but you know,
56:15
I work so much and I've got so much to do with my wife and kids. It's hard for me to live that
56:20
lifestyle of cutting the weight and being able to keep me where I need to be to make 70. So I just
56:25
fight at 85. It's so crazy because we're about the same size. And you know, you'll see guys that
56:31
walk around at about what we weigh and they fight at lightweight, which is 155 pounds.
56:36
And so again, guys, just, yeah, for anyone that's out there listening to this, they're not 155
56:41
pounds when they fight. They're 155 pounds for about 60 seconds for as long as it takes
56:47
for them to get on the scale and get back off. But you have these guys like, you know, this,
56:51
you know, Islam makachevs and these, you know, Michael Chandler's and these guys that are just
56:55
they're 200 pound, you know, dudes, they're just athletic beasts. And then they just suck all that
57:01
water and wait out. And then they get down to 155. And then by the time they get back in the octagon,
57:06
they're 185 190. It's just astonishing. Yeah, my buddy, my good friend Niko Price. He just
57:12
fought row you all are. Yeah, right. He man, amazing. Niko's an absolute savage, dude. I love that guy.
57:18
He is he I kind of see myself in him. That guy doesn't care when or lose. He goes out and fights
57:24
hard every single time. He'll fight anybody anywhere. He goes out gives the fans a show.
57:29
Shout out to my boy Niko man. I love that guy. But anyway, he walked right. He was like 208.
57:34
He was 208 at one point. And I was like, dude, you weighed more than I do. And he fights at 70.
57:40
And I'm sitting here fighting dudes and walk around at 230 cutting down to 85. I'm like,
57:45
you know what I mean? But it is what it is, bro. I just have fun with it. And honestly,
57:49
I just love it because I can use it as a platform to grow my mission. Everything I'm doing, man,
57:54
everything I'm doing, the Lord has blessed me with a small business that's doing okay.
58:00
Everything I'm doing, moving forward is pointing all things to projects, savior outdoors for the
58:04
veteran community. And all I want man is help for our vets. I want to build that community,
58:09
the brotherhood. And I want it all just to point to Jesus. That's it.
58:12
Well, that probably would have been a good place to end the interview, but I'm greedy.
58:16
And I have an MMA related question here because I know you've watched a lot of MMA and stuff like
58:21
that. So I want to know what your Mount Rushmore of MMA is. Okay. And that's just these are your top
58:29
four guys, your Mount Rushmore. And you can define that however you want because my Mount Rushmore
58:34
is kind of all over the place because I got guys that I think are the best fighters. And then I got
58:38
guys that I think are the most important to the game overall. So here, while you think about it,
58:43
because I'm setting you up here, let me give you my Mount Rushmore. These are my four guys that
58:46
this is my Mount Rushmore of fighting. So number one is the guy who I think is the greatest of all
58:52
time when you take everything into account. And that's your Saint Pierre. He doesn't get nearly as
58:56
much love. He's on there. Another one is Conor McGregor. Now, in terms of fighting, like he's
59:02
kind of got off the deep end, he may never fight again, like who the heck knows what he's doing.
59:06
But to do what he did in a short time period that he did to be the first double champion
59:10
to he is the biggest star in the history of a sport that's only been around for 30 years, right?
59:15
And so he's another guy that would be on there. Another one that I would have to put on there would
59:20
be I would like to say John Jones, but he's popped multiple times. So it's like, I kind of have to
59:26
keep him off of there. I got to put a hoist Gracie on there right now, just because he was the first
59:31
champion without hoist Gracie. There's probably not a jujitsu school in every town in America right
59:37
now. And so that would be another one. And then, you know, my fourth one, I just said I wouldn't do
59:43
it. But I guess I would put John Jones on there because here's the deal. If this were like Greek
59:48
city state times, and it was like USA versus Russia, and as opposed to us bringing both of our armies
59:54
to the same area and fighting it out, but we had to send one fighter to the field and they had to
59:59
send one fighter to the field. I would say get John Jones on the juiciest juicy stuff that we could
1:00:05
possibly find and talk them out here. And he doesn't matter. They could send a grizzly bear.
1:00:12
And I feel like that guy's going to win. I think he's a terrible person. You know, he's, you know,
1:00:16
beaten women before he's I think he's an awful awful human being. But when it comes to strictly
1:00:20
fighting, you know, I'm going to go against what I just said and stick them on my Mount Rushmore. So
1:00:23
I wasted about two or three minutes to kind of give you some time to think through your Mount Rushmore.
1:00:28
But let's get it. Who's on your Mount Rushmore of MMA and why? Oh man, this is this is a very,
1:00:35
very, very hard one. I'm going to say I was definitely thinking hoist-gracy just because,
1:00:39
like you said, without him, it wouldn't be where it's at. He, man, started this whole jujitsu journey.
1:00:45
I love jujitsu. It's changed my life. So I got to put hoist-gracy up there.
1:00:50
I'm also going to put Vitor Belfort up there. Vitor? What?
1:00:54
Vitor Belfort was, as growing up, he was one of my favorite fighters. Regardless of the juice
1:01:01
or not, I don't care. That was mainly, you know, down the road. But or when it was legal, I don't,
1:01:06
I don't really care. He was one of the most explosive fighters that I ever remember watching,
1:01:13
dude. And that's why I love him.
1:01:15
His blood type was Tropicana for most of his life. Mike, like what he was the jujitsu dude alive.
1:01:20
What are you talking about? Okay. So we got hoist-grity Vitor. All right, those are two.
1:01:25
Dude, just so explosive. Matt Hughes.
1:01:28
Okay. I love Matt Hughes because in my opinion, he was like the king of ground in town.
1:01:35
When he was the first welterweight goat, like he was the first guy to where it was like,
1:01:41
Oh, you can just be a wrestler and be impossible to, you know, you get taken down and you can't
1:01:46
get up. Yeah. Absolutely. Matt Hughes. Yeah. Yeah. Now I think we might be, I'm just naming some
1:01:51
of my favorite fighters as far as the Mount Rushmore as greatest of all time. I'm just naming like
1:01:55
my four kind of favorites. Okay. All right. And that's why Vitor is one of them. And then as far as,
1:02:03
man, dude, I hate to match our GSP. I've got to give GSP credit for sure. He's got to be up there,
1:02:14
even though him and Matt Hughes are staying generation. I would love to pick somebody newer,
1:02:19
but, you know, I've got to go with those guys, you know, but when it comes to like,
1:02:24
favorite fighters, bro, like Cowboy Saroni was one of my favorite fighters, bro, of all time.
1:02:30
He's a legend. Dude, he is a freaking legend. And one of the reasons I love him so much is because
1:02:36
again, he didn't care, win or lose. He always came out. He always performed. He always put on a show.
1:02:42
Dude, to me, it's about the fight. It's about fighting. It's not about. Okay. It's about fighting.
1:02:49
That's what I love about the sport. Okay. But I totally understand the competitive aspect
1:02:53
in doing what you need to do. These Dagestani guys do an exactly what they need to do to win
1:02:56
and be competitive. Dude, all respect, they're the best for a reason. They've got an amazing game
1:03:02
plan. But like for me and my favorite fighters from an entertainment and fighting aspect,
1:03:06
I like to see the fight, the Niko prices, the Robbie Lawlers, the Donald Serroves,
1:03:10
you know what I mean? So that's why I would throw him in there too.
1:03:14
You know, it's funny. You mentioned the Dagestani fighters. I can't name one that I like. And I'm
1:03:20
just like you. Like if you've got a skill set that leads to winning and you're on a, you're on a
1:03:25
show and win bonus system. Like, hey, do what you got to do to win two out of three rounds or
1:03:31
three out of five rounds. Like, yeah, man, I get it. It's a style that drives me nuts because
1:03:36
I want to see a car wreck. I want to see Justin Gaechey, right? Like I want to see
1:03:40
Justin Gaechey, right? I want to see Robbie Lawler versus Rory McDonald. I want to see something
1:03:45
like that. Well, here's the thing I say about that. Robbie Lawler and Rory McDonald, guys,
1:03:49
that could be the best fight that's ever taken place in MMA history. And it was a brawl,
1:03:55
but it was also crazy technical. Like go back and watch that fight. It was ended halfway through
1:04:00
the fifth round. You know, when Rory basically had his nose smashed for the third or four time,
1:04:05
like he just, he couldn't keep going. But he's another great believer. And funny thing about it,
1:04:10
Robbie Lawler, his last fight was against Nico Price, your buddy, and he knocked him out in his
1:04:13
last fight. There's a lot of things there, but it wasn't just two guys going out there doing,
1:04:17
you know, golden gloves, you know, local, you know, bar room boxing. This was a super technical
1:04:23
fight that just turned into one of the bloodiest, most gangster fights of all time.
1:04:27
Yeah, it was like the new generation version of Seth and Bonner Forrest Griffin.
1:04:32
Oh, yeah. And that's another one like, yeah, if somebody put, yeah, if someone said, hey,
1:04:38
Forrest, Forrest Griffin is on my, uh, my Mount Rushmore, it's like, you couldn't really argue
1:04:42
against that because he was a champion. It's too many. Yeah, like, it really is too many. I set
1:04:46
you up unfairly because I'm a jerk, but like, that's the thing is like, there's so many
1:04:50
good ways to do things. All right. Well, one last MMA question, then we got to get you out
1:04:53
of here. Is there a fighter right now? And it doesn't matter the organization, even though most
1:04:58
people would agree that the UFC is kind of that, you know, the upper echelon of the best of the best
1:05:01
fighters. Is there a fighter right now that is not really in that greatest of all time discussion
1:05:07
because, you know, if you got John Jones, who's a lot of people's goats, he's still fighting
1:05:12
technically, he's supposed to fight steep at the end of this year. Is there a fighter or two that's
1:05:16
younger that you think one day we might be talking about this guy as the greatest fighter of all
1:05:23
time? I've got one in mind. And I know there's some arguments for some others. Was there a guy
1:05:27
that you think that like, hey, this guy's got something where we may be just talking about them
1:05:32
forever? Oh, man. I mean, bro, I'm just gonna say it, dude. I think that
1:05:40
I think Bo Nichols got I think Bo Nichols got a good shot, bro. I really think that he's gonna be
1:05:50
champion world class wrestler. He he has fought some known ends, but he's also fought some pretty
1:05:57
decent guys and and starched him on the feet as well. So and he's so young to it. And guys like that
1:06:04
just learned so quickly. And the team around him is so supportive, bro. He's young. I think that he
1:06:12
could be I think he could be something big big for sure. He could certainly be special. He fights
1:06:19
middleweight at 185. He've got Hamzot that that just got up to 185. Like, that's my dream matchup.
1:06:26
Yeah, right now I would see that. Yeah. Well, I'm, you know, maybe two, three more years of
1:06:31
seasoning and Bo Nichols kind of in that conversation. The one guy right now that is active that I
1:06:36
think one day is on track to go down as the greatest potentially the greatest fighter of all time
1:06:42
give me a hand or Vulcan Obsky. You should have you should have yeah for sure. You're absolutely right. And I agree 110% man. He doesn't get
1:06:50
credit. He doesn't have a lot of crazy hype behind him. But for sure dude, as far as goats, I think he is he's
1:06:58
already up there, bro. He's already right there in the mix. In my mind, he's already the featherweight
1:07:03
goat. He's already and people are like, what about Jose Aldo? And it's like, sorry, he beat Jose Aldo.
1:07:08
And then he beat Max Holloway three times and Max Holloway beat Joe's a twice. So there's
1:07:13
a math there. Yeah, he's beat everybody. But here's the other thing about it, Mike. So he goes up to 155
1:07:19
to fight Islam Makhashiv. So this Islam was a guy that they couldn't find people for him to fight
1:07:25
because nobody went to fight him because he's he's the second coming of Habib Habib's his coach.
1:07:29
It's that Dagestani I'm gonna take you down and wrestle FU to death. Like it's that type of style.
1:07:34
But also, he's got some decent stand up, right? Yeah, and Volkanovsky, who's like five foot six,
1:07:39
he's like, okay, I'll go up and fight this dude at 155. And he goes up there. He loses a decision,
1:07:45
but a lot of people thought he won the fight. And at the very end of the fight, he's on top of
1:07:51
Islam beating him up in the 25th minute of the fight. And it was so it was such a good fight
1:07:59
for Volkanovsky that even after the fight, even after he had lost, he was still considered the
1:08:03
number one pound for pound fighter on the planet because he goes up and wait and fights a guy that's
1:08:09
enormous that nobody wanted to fight. Like there was probably like a 30 pound weight difference
1:08:13
between these two guys. And he's just like, I don't care. I'm the best. I'm gonna go up there and beat
1:08:17
him. And hey, he's right in line to get another fight at featherweight and then go up and challenge
1:08:23
for that belt again. You know what I mean? Like it's just, he's incredible. Well, hey, we've
1:08:28
gone everywhere in this conversation. Is there anything that you wanted to talk about that I didn't
1:08:32
tee you up for since we just kind of weaved in and out? No, man, we honestly just it was, you know,
1:08:38
super impromptu. I really appreciate you having me. I would love to do it again. If you ever want
1:08:45
to do this again and talk, you know, more specific, we could talk whatever you want, bro. I really
1:08:49
appreciate it. Again, though, my heart is all about my organization. My heart is all about
1:08:57
pointing men to Jesus. And I just pray that anybody out there, whether you believe or don't believe,
1:09:04
believe in miracles, don't believe in miracles, whatever that may be, I pray that if you're not
1:09:08
a believer that you will just take that step, man, get yourself plugged into an awesome church
1:09:14
community of men like yourself. Men like us need men like us men like you need men like you and vice
1:09:21
versa. So please plug in and just give it a go, bro. Just just jump in and give it a shot
1:09:29
because I know what the Lord's done in my life. And I wouldn't be right now without him. So yeah,
1:09:36
that's what I would say, bro. That's it. I love that message. We will have a link to
1:09:40
Project Savior Outdoors in the show notes. I've really enjoyed our time today. Mike Draget,
1:09:45
thank you for coming on Don't the Life of Man's podcast. Hey, thank you so much,
1:09:48
Scott. I appreciate you, brother. There you go, guys. I hope you enjoyed my time with Mike Draget,
1:09:53
but before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost. Out on Don't the Life,
1:09:57
our mission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual,
1:10:01
mental and physical resilience. So I've got three links there. I've got a link to Mike's
1:10:04
Instagram. So if you want to see the stuff that he's working on, you can go there and check that
1:10:08
out. I've got a link to Project Savior Outdoors. So you can check out everything that they're doing
1:10:12
with Project Savior Outdoors, see how you can get involved. And also, I've got the viral video
1:10:16
of him corralling that enormous alligator. You should definitely check it out.
1:10:20
Thank you guys for listening to this episode. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe,
1:10:24
rate and leave us a positive five star review. If you want me to come speak live at your event
1:10:28
or on your podcast, you shoot me an email to info@andonton.life. That's i-n-f-o @andonton.life.
1:10:34
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including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way. Just go to www.andonton.life.
1:10:42
Also, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for our content.
1:10:47
The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self-titled debut album on
1:10:52
Face Down Records. The links are in the description. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Remember,
1:10:57
keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience,
1:11:03
keep seeking the Lion of Judah.