0:00
(upbeat music)
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- This is "Undaunted Life" a man's podcast.
0:21
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
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Let's get into it.
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All right guys, today we've got a special guest
0:25
on the podcast.
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His name is Michael Franzese.
0:28
So he's a former mobster who was a capo
0:30
for the Colombo crime family,
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which is one of the five mafia families of New York
0:33
and the son of a Colombo underboss Sonny Franzese.
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And at his peak, he claims that he and his crew
0:39
were generating upwards of $8 million per week
0:42
from various schemes that he was running.
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Back in 1986 at the age of 35,
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Fortune Magazine actually named him
0:48
the number 18 most wealthy and powerful mafia boss.
0:51
And so he had the makings of kind of that next super famous,
0:55
super wealthy, super powerful mob boss,
0:58
but God had other plans for Michael.
0:59
So Michael became a Christian.
1:01
And after his second stint in federal prison,
1:03
he very publicly and not really his fault,
1:05
declared that he was leaving the mafia
1:08
and he was leaving it for good.
1:09
And for those of you that don't know
1:11
or don't really understand this,
1:12
you can't just get out of the mafia.
1:14
Okay, you can't just leave and keep your life.
1:16
It's a blood in, in blood out kind of a deal.
1:19
But that's exactly what Michael did.
1:21
He left the mob, he relocated to California
1:23
where he's now a speaker and a writer.
1:25
And by God's providence, he's still alive today.
1:27
And we talk about that a lot in this podcast.
1:29
He's authored seven books to include "Quitting the Mob",
1:32
this one that I just finished yesterday
1:34
called "Blood Covenant", it is fantastic.
1:36
And then his latest book that he wrote last year
1:38
and released "Mafia Democracy".
1:40
And guys in this podcast, we literally went everywhere
1:43
because I mean, this guy's got a big, you know,
1:45
social media following.
1:45
He's got over a million subscribers on YouTube.
1:47
But we just started with like, you know,
1:49
what was it like growing up Michael Fransese?
1:50
I mean, your dad was an enforcer
1:52
and underboss with the Colombo crime family.
1:54
Like did you know that your dad was in the mafia?
1:57
Like, you know, 'cause for all of us,
1:58
like when you're growing up, even if your dad's in the home,
2:00
you don't necessarily know what they do day in and day out.
2:03
But what was it like growing up?
2:04
When did he kind of get drawn to that life?
2:07
But then we kind of dispelled some rumors
2:09
about, you know, the mafia and some of those different things.
2:11
But we looked at, you know,
2:12
how does someone get picked for the mob?
2:14
How are they initiated?
2:15
You know, what is a maid guy?
2:16
Like all these things that we think we know
2:18
because we watched a few movies or something like that.
2:20
You know, we kind of dispelled some common misconceptions.
2:23
But then it was like, hey, he wasn't supposed
2:25
to go into the mob, but he did.
2:26
Like how did that work out?
2:28
We went through his actual initiation,
2:30
which is like, okay, behind closed doors,
2:32
this is exactly what you do to be initiated into the mob.
2:34
He took us through that entire ceremony
2:36
and we looked at that.
2:37
We looked at how that kind of changed his relationship
2:39
with his father 'cause his father was obviously dedicated
2:42
to the life.
2:42
Now he's a part of that life.
2:43
You know, his reputation as an earner,
2:45
again, he ended up leading a crew
2:47
that was making $8 million a week.
2:49
And he kind of went into some detail
2:51
as to some of the schemes that they ran.
2:52
But then we looked at when that transition happened
2:56
because well, he also went into a story about a time
2:58
whenever he was being marched into a room
3:00
that he didn't think he was going to come out of.
3:01
So that's a fantastic story
3:03
that you got to stick around for.
3:04
But when he, when did he decide he was leaving the mob?
3:06
Like what preceded that?
3:08
Because you know, it seemed like, you know,
3:09
you're making so much money, you have so much pull
3:12
and you have all these things going for you.
3:13
Like why would you want to leave that life?
3:15
And again, we get into his Christian conversion.
3:17
Like why did he convert?
3:19
You know, he was Catholic growing up, but even him,
3:21
he's like, you know, when you're Catholic,
3:22
he don't really read the Bible, you read the catechism,
3:24
but he had no actual faith.
3:26
But when did he put his faith in Jesus?
3:27
What did that look like?
3:28
And really it became, it became a thing in his life
3:31
that when he thought he was at his worst place possible,
3:34
like in solitary confinement for days on end
3:36
in a federal prison, that is where God was most present to him.
3:41
And then we talk a little bit about mafia democracy
3:43
and kind of how he feels like we've had some degradation
3:45
here in our culture.
3:46
But guys, if you stick around,
3:47
all the way to the very, very end of the interview,
3:49
I'm not going to trick you, okay?
3:50
The very last question I asked him
3:52
is what is the most accurate and best mob movie there is?
3:57
Because everyone's got their favorite
3:58
and everyone's got the one that they're like,
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oh, that's gotta be true.
4:01
But he gives you some really, really good insights
4:03
into how exactly, or like, what are those films?
4:06
And it's like, no, they nailed it.
4:07
They took some liberties,
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but those are the ones that they nailed.
4:09
Guys, I had a great conversation with him.
4:11
We had a great conversation after.
4:13
Hopefully we're going to be able to do more stuff like this
4:15
with him in the future, but I'm not going to keep him from you
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any longer.
4:18
If you're further ado, let's get into it.
4:20
Michael Fransiz, welcome to Undaunted Life of Man's podcast.
4:24
- Good to be here, Kyle.
4:25
- So we got a lot of ground to cover today
4:27
and we don't have all the time in the world,
4:29
but we do need to start small, I guess.
4:31
So what was it like growing up, Michael Fransiz?
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- Well, it was different, that's for sure.
4:36
When you have a father that's the underboss
4:39
of the Colombo family and extremely high profile,
4:42
always a major target of law enforcement,
4:46
big media attention all the time.
4:48
So I grew up in that environment and it was certainly different.
4:53
- And so I guess for you, Michael,
4:55
at what point in your childhood did you begin
4:57
to really understand the line of work
5:00
that your father, Sonny Fransiz, was in?
5:01
Because obviously, he's a very famous name now
5:04
and he passed away a couple of years ago.
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So my condolences to you for that.
5:07
He passed away at the age, I think it was 103.
5:09
But for a kid, you never really know exactly
5:12
what your dad does, regardless of what they do.
5:14
So when did that kind of come to fruition for you?
5:17
- Well, I can tell you, you know, my eyes were opened early.
5:21
I remember, you know, it's amazing how you remember
5:24
certain things that really stand out in your life.
5:27
I was about four or five years old
5:29
and it was during the Colombo War,
5:31
the actual Proface Gala War, I should say,
5:34
in the Colombo family.
5:36
And my dad was away for a couple of days.
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He hadn't come home.
5:40
And we were at my grandmother's house in Long Island.
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He had moved us out there, I guess,
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for our own safety at that time.
5:46
And he suddenly appeared one morning.
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He wasn't shaving it all.
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He walked in the door.
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I remember his close friend, the soldier of his,
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was out on the porch of the house,
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kind of standing guard.
5:59
And he came in and embraced my mother,
6:01
came over to me, hugged me tight.
6:03
He was only there for maybe 15, 20 minutes,
6:06
and then he was gone.
6:07
So, you know, I didn't know what to think at that point.
6:10
Obviously, it was young, but that kind of started out,
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you know, my understanding that dad
6:15
was into something different.
6:17
And he never discussed it in the house,
6:20
but it was all around us, so he couldn't miss him.
6:23
- So it was like you were marinated in it.
6:24
So it was just like, you know, it was just old hat.
6:26
Just like, you know, my dad, you know,
6:27
worked 40 plus years in a factory
6:29
and like, came home dirty from hard days of good, honest work.
6:32
And so that was just it.
6:33
We were just surrounded in it.
6:35
To take a little bit of a divergence.
6:37
So obviously, your father worked for the Colombo family.
6:39
That's one of the five La Cosa Nostra crime families,
6:42
Colombo, Gambino, Genes, Banano, and Lukasi.
6:46
But then, you know, people will say La Cosa Nostra.
6:48
They'll say the five families, they'll say the mob
6:50
or the mafia.
6:51
Are there any differences between any of these things?
6:53
Or are those all kind of like terms
6:55
that can be used interchangeably?
6:57
- Yeah, pretty much here in the United States,
6:59
they use them interchangeably.
7:00
I mean, the real name is Cosa Nostra.
7:03
This thing of ours, it obviously originated
7:06
from the Sicilians in Italy, mafia, same thing.
7:10
But, you know, in the United States,
7:12
it's known as Cosa Nostra.
7:14
- Well, so for you, Michael,
7:15
I appreciate you breaking that down for us.
7:18
Obviously, we'll get into your story
7:19
about how you kind of got into that life.
7:21
But there are obviously a lot of misperceptions.
7:23
Hollywood has a lot to do with that.
7:24
Just entertainment in general, in books and things like that.
7:28
But how does somebody get picked to be in the mob
7:31
or the mafia?
7:32
How are they initiated?
7:33
How are they, you know, what is a made guy?
7:35
And I guess maybe you can dispel a few
7:37
of the common misperceptions about that along the way.
7:40
- Well, yeah, you don't really get picked.
7:42
I mean, you can't just go up to somebody and say,
7:44
"Hey, I'd like to join."
7:46
Somebody that knows you has to propose you.
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That's the term.
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Say you have what it takes.
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You know, you're qualified to be a member of that life.
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And once that happens, you go through a recruit period,
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like I did for about two plus years,
8:01
where you have to do anything and everything
8:03
you're told to do to prove yourself.
8:04
When I first met with the boss after my dad proposed me,
8:08
he said, "I hear you want to become a member of all life."
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Is that true?
8:12
I said, "Yes."
8:13
Well, here's the deal.
8:14
From now on 24 hours a day, seven days a week,
8:17
you're on call to serve this family, the Colombo family.
8:20
That means if your mother is sick and dying
8:22
and you're at her bedside, we call you to service.
8:25
You leave your mother, you come and serve us.
8:27
From now on, we're number one in your life
8:29
before anything and everything.
8:30
When and if we feel you deserve this privilege,
8:33
this honor to become a member will let you know.
8:36
And that's it.
8:36
And then you're in a recruit period
8:39
for as long as they feel you need to be in it.
8:42
And you know, the interesting thing,
8:44
when I was proposed in the early '70s,
8:48
they had an expression among all five families
8:50
that the books were closed.
8:51
They weren't bringing any new guys in.
8:53
It was more for certain reasons.
8:55
Unless somebody died in a family,
8:57
you were allowed to replace them.
8:58
But other than that, we couldn't bring anybody
9:01
in the books were closed.
9:02
But they opened up in the early to mid '70s.
9:06
And I was waiting around, I mean,
9:08
I was a recruit with guys that were waiting 20 years
9:11
to become a member.
9:12
So it was an interesting time.
9:14
And they brought a lot of guys in
9:15
in the mid to late '70s.
9:17
- And so when you become a made man, as it were,
9:20
in terms of on the street level or just in general,
9:23
like what exactly does that mean?
9:25
I mean, that's kind of like common American parlance now.
9:27
Like, oh, that's a made guy.
9:28
But what does that tangibly mean to you guys?
9:32
- Well, it means you've taken the oath.
9:34
You know, you were officially indoctrinated into the life.
9:38
And it's a status.
9:39
I mean, you're coming as a soldier.
9:41
And at that point in time, you're on a different level
9:43
than everybody else on the street.
9:45
You know, made guys are told this.
9:48
We're special.
9:49
We're in a different breed.
9:50
And anybody that's not a made guy, it's a sucker.
9:53
You could be the President of the United States.
9:55
You could be the Pope.
9:56
You could be the richest guy in the world.
9:58
You're a sucker.
9:59
If you're not made and you haven't gone through that ritual
10:01
to become a made member.
10:03
So it's a status that's, you know,
10:07
quite honestly, the night I was made,
10:08
it was exhilarating to me after being a recruit
10:11
for, you know, that period of time.
10:13
So it's a good feeling when you first get in.
10:16
- So Michael, that's interesting.
10:18
But, you know, that was never the plan for you.
10:20
The plan was never to enter the mob life.
10:22
I mean, it's my understanding reading through your book,
10:24
"Blood Covenant," which is fantastic, by the way.
10:26
You were gonna go pre-med,
10:27
but that maybe didn't last that long.
10:30
That was maybe attached to the fact that you were trying
10:31
to get some money to try to help get your father
10:34
out of prison because he was on a prison sentence
10:36
that y'all felt like he didn't deserve to be serving
10:38
and all that.
10:39
But I guess what sucked you into the life?
10:42
- Well, it was, you know, my dad got a 50-year prison sentence
10:45
for a crime he swore he didn't commit.
10:47
He was innocent all by believed him.
10:50
And, you know, I lost interest in school
10:53
because I became very close with Joe Colombo
10:55
and who had the Italian-American civil rights league
10:58
at that time was a vehicle I thought that would help
11:00
my father, you know, overturn that conviction.
11:03
And so I lost interest in school.
11:06
My dad originally didn't want this life for me.
11:08
He wanted me to be a doctor, you know,
11:09
the first professional in the family.
11:11
But after he got that sentence in 1970,
11:15
I was trying to help him get out of prison.
11:18
And we once had a meeting in Leavenworth,
11:19
penitentiary when he was in.
11:21
And I told him, "Dad, I'm not going to school.
11:23
"If I don't help y'all, you're gonna die in here."
11:25
And we kind of argued a little bit because, you know,
11:28
he didn't want me to leave school.
11:31
But he knew my mind was made up.
11:33
And he said to me, "Son, if you're gonna be on the street,
11:35
"I want you on the street the right way.
11:37
"In his mind, the right way was to become
11:39
"a member of his life."
11:40
So he proposed me from membership at that point.
11:43
It wasn't that I said, "Hey, I gotta become a member
11:45
"of the mob."
11:46
I just, if he showed that as a way to help him,
11:48
you know, to get the money that we needed,
11:50
maybe the political connections that we needed,
11:52
maybe the legal help that we needed, well, find that.
11:55
I'm ready to go, because if I don't do that,
11:57
you're gonna die in here.
11:58
- And so you were on that path.
12:00
And then, as you mentioned earlier, Michael,
12:02
you were formally inducted into the
12:03
Colombo crime family on Halloween night of 1975.
12:07
Now, this has been depicted in just about every thing
12:10
you could see in Hollywood and television shows
12:12
and movies and things like that.
12:13
But take us through what that was like for you,
12:16
because I'm sure you had a sense of what was going to happen,
12:19
but of course you would never experience it yourself.
12:21
So please kind of take our audience through
12:22
exactly what that process was like.
12:25
- Sure.
12:25
Well, because it's a secret ceremony,
12:27
you're never told in advance when it's going to happen.
12:30
I mean, it could happen anytime.
12:33
Like I said, there was guys waiting 20 years.
12:35
So I didn't know when the call would come,
12:38
but it did come, you know, Halloween morning,
12:40
I was called by my copper regime at that time, my captain.
12:44
And he said, "Just meet me in Brooklyn,"
12:46
which is not abnormal.
12:48
I did that, you know, five, six times a week.
12:50
So I went in, I had a suit on,
12:53
and we kind of just did our normal stuff for the day.
12:56
And then that evening he had me drive him
12:58
to a catering hall that was owned
13:01
by Joe Colombo's son, Anthony Colombo.
13:03
And that was the night I had a feeling.
13:05
I said, "Something's happening here tonight."
13:07
And it was the night that myself
13:08
and five other gentlemen took the oath.
13:12
And we walked into a room individually.
13:14
The boss was seated at the head of like a horseshoe configuration
13:18
under bossed and consulieri to his left and right,
13:21
all the captains were alongside of them.
13:23
Walked down the aisle, stood in front of the boss,
13:25
held out my hand, he took a knife, cut my finger,
13:28
some blood dropped on the floor.
13:30
This is a blood oath, cut to my hands.
13:32
He took a picture of a saint, Catholic altar card,
13:34
put it on my hands, didn't, he lit it a flame.
13:37
It didn't hurt, it burned quickly, it was merely symbolic.
13:40
And he said, "Tonight, Michael Francis,
13:42
you are born again into a new life into cousin Austria.
13:45
Violate what you know about this life.
13:47
Betray your brothers, and you'll die and burn in hell
13:50
like this saint is burning in your hands.
13:52
Do you accept?
13:53
Yes, I do."
13:54
And that was it and it was a very exhilarating night.
13:57
You know, I waited for a couple of years for this to happen.
14:00
And, you know, I was very excited about finally becoming a member.
14:05
- Well, and there's a quote from your book "Blood Covenant"
14:08
after the initiation already here.
14:11
Yet as I was leaving the dimly lit room that night,
14:13
I found that I was excited.
14:15
This feeling grew until it became exhilaration.
14:17
I was now part of an army of blood brothers.
14:19
I was locked into a brotherhood few would ever experience
14:21
or even understand.
14:22
And more importantly, I had become one with my father.
14:25
I had bonded.
14:27
I could never be rejected now, never be banished from the house.
14:30
That's all that really mattered.
14:31
My father had accepted me as blood.
14:34
Blood spilled and drops on the wooden floor,
14:36
but blood nonetheless, it was a joyous moment for me.
14:39
Now, for anyone that knows your story,
14:41
there's so much packed in that.
14:42
Like I drew a big highlight around that
14:44
and I wrote in the side of the margins of the book.
14:46
There's so much here because Sonny Fransese
14:49
was not your biological father,
14:51
but he's the only father that you ever really knew.
14:53
But there was that angst when you were a child growing up,
14:56
Michael, that you were never fully accepted.
14:58
You were maybe one bad day or one bad thing
15:02
away from being rejected.
15:03
But in this moment, you became one with your father.
15:06
I mean, take us through a little bit of that
15:08
because a lot of people in this audience,
15:10
maybe they have a distant father and never met their father
15:13
and just the feeling of exhilaration to be bonded to your father
15:17
is something that they would literally die for.
15:20
But you found it that night.
15:22
Well, yeah, I mean, I love my father.
15:23
I idolized him.
15:24
He was a great dad to me.
15:25
I didn't know any other father, even though I grew up
15:28
believing that he was my adopted father or he had adopted me.
15:34
And the reason for this exhilaration that night
15:38
is because when he married my mom, my mom was 16 when I was born.
15:43
And my father was married before he had three other children.
15:47
So those three other children became part of the household.
15:50
And my mom quite honestly had a rough time with them
15:53
because she was like 19, 20 years old.
15:56
And she's got three kids.
15:58
I don't want to say pushed upon her,
16:00
but you understand entering the household.
16:02
She was one woman herself.
16:04
So she didn't get along great with the kids all the time.
16:07
And I always had the fear that maybe my father would turn against me
16:10
because the way my mother treated them.
16:12
It never happened.
16:13
He never did.
16:14
And my mother was used to telling me,
16:16
you don't ever have to worry about that.
16:18
But still, in my head, I did.
16:21
So yeah, when I became a member, I said, hey, now I'm
16:24
joined in blood with my father.
16:26
This is full acceptance.
16:28
And it was exhilarating to me.
16:30
And I think, you know, as you read the end of the book,
16:32
my mother revealed later on in life
16:34
that, you know, he was really my father biologically.
16:37
But at the time of their marriage,
16:39
or when he was my mother pregnant,
16:42
she couldn't reveal that because she didn't do that back in those days.
16:46
And my father wasn't allowed to get a divorce originally
16:48
because Cosinostre didn't allow it until his first wife kind of took off or ran away.
16:54
And he had the three kids, and then they allowed it.
16:56
So it was a whole kind of messed up situation.
16:59
But yeah, I mean, I was exhilarated because, hey,
17:02
now it's for real, I'm bonded with my dad in blood.
17:06
And it meant the world to me that night.
17:09
Well, and that's one of the most interesting things
17:10
about your life, Michael, which obviously you've led a very unique,
17:12
interesting life is all of the ins and outs of that relationship
17:16
with your father finding out that it's your actual biological father.
17:19
But running into a man that you thought was your biological father
17:22
as you were growing up and kind of what was looking like that there.
17:25
But one of my favorite stories that you described in your book
17:28
is, you know, your father used to wake you up at 6 a.m.
17:31
to say, hey, go and make me coffee.
17:32
And then you would sit there in your chat and you would get so excited
17:35
for the 6 a.m. wakeups that you'd be up a quarter to six,
17:38
like ready for your father to come in and say, hey, let's go, let's make coffee.
17:41
But then when you became a certified member, whenever you became a made man,
17:46
whenever you were in the mafia, you were doing those 6 a.m.s again with your dad.
17:50
But it was just very different.
17:51
You know, you're talking about business and life and all these other different things.
17:55
But the interesting thing about you, and again, this goes against cuts against
17:59
kind of the Hollywood narrative.
18:01
You had a reputation as an earner and not a killer.
18:05
And so, but for us on the outside, we don't see those two things as possibly being able
18:09
to be separated, that if you are a made guy and if you are a famous mobster,
18:14
you're obviously a killer as well.
18:16
But I guess talk to me about that because, you know, you were seen as a cumber,
18:19
a guy that was going to really get after it.
18:21
But it seemed like you were way more focused on money than, you know, flexing and taking
18:25
life.
18:26
Yeah, you know, in that life, you have like two separate, you know, identities, I would
18:32
say.
18:33
You're either a racketeer or you're a gangster.
18:35
Now, a gangster, I'll try to explain it, a gangster for some reason hasn't grasped the
18:41
understanding of how to use that life to make money.
18:45
A racketeer has, they understood, like I understood how to use that life to benefit
18:50
me in business.
18:51
And as a result, I used it effectively and went on to make a significant amount of money.
18:56
And remember this, Kyle, no organization exists unless it's financed, probably.
19:01
Right.
19:02
So when you're an earner, they try to steer you in that direction so that you continue
19:07
to bring money into that life.
19:08
Now, let me be clear, a racketeer also has to have a gangster in him because when you're
19:14
called upon to do something, you got to do it, period.
19:17
And if it's an act of violence, you got to do it.
19:19
You don't ever refuse.
19:20
You're never shielded from that 100%.
19:23
Every time is going to come and you're going to have to act accordingly.
19:26
But when you're a gangster, you're not called upon to be a racketeer because that's something
19:30
you just, you have to learn.
19:31
You have to know how to use.
19:33
So a lot of times, a lot of the work they call it, a lot of the work on the street would
19:38
be the gangsters because they got to be effective in the life at some point.
19:43
So that's what they use for.
19:46
And that's kind of the way it goes.
19:48
And you know, it's like any other organization.
19:50
You separate the people that have an expertise in a certain area and you use them for that.
19:56
And so I was more of a racketeer because I knew how to use the life effectively to
20:02
bring in money.
20:03
And that was very, very important to my boss and to the family.
20:07
So the interesting thing about your description of that is obviously there are people that
20:11
are the muscle, maybe they don't potentially have the brains to come up with these schemes.
20:15
But you came up with error, you and your crew came up with a scheme that was astounding
20:20
in how well it worked.
20:22
And it was kind of a gas tax scheme, you know, where you were skimming gas taxes.
20:27
And at one point, yeah, I guess the estimations were between five and eight million dollars
20:30
a week was coming into the family through your crew.
20:35
Obviously it was a very complicated scheme, but can you give us just the high points of
20:38
it to kind of describe like, Hey, at your absolute peak, this was the thing that you were doing
20:42
that was bringing in the most money.
20:44
Sure, yeah, it was a basically a scheme to defraud the government out of tax on every
20:49
gallon of gasoline.
20:50
And you know, a lot of people think that mob guys sit around in their social clubs and
20:55
devise all of these schemes, how to defraud companies and all of that.
20:59
That happens on occasion, but most of the time somebody from within the company thinks
21:04
of a scheme to defraud the company and they come to us, Hey, we can protect them, we can
21:09
finance them, we're never going to tell on them, we have the authority to power the connections.
21:13
So in this case, same thing, guy comes to me with the germ of an idea.
21:18
He was in the gasoline business and how to defraud the government.
21:22
And for eight years, I took that to, I think, a peak level where we were pulling down five
21:27
to eight million a week.
21:28
I had over 300 gas stations, we either owned or operated, I had 18 companies that were licensed
21:34
to collect the tax on every gallon of gasoline.
21:37
I drew the Russian mob guys from Brighton Beach Brooklyn in with me, and we ran a very effective
21:43
operation for seven or eight years until my partner, the original guy that came to me
21:48
became an informant, he got in trouble in some other matter.
21:52
And that's when he blew the whistle on everything, but we had a good run.
21:56
Yeah.
21:57
And that led to a lot of things in your life and really kind of that was one of the first
22:00
dominoes to fall that led you to Christ and we'll certainly get to that as well.
22:04
But as you're in this life, you obviously know that you're really walking a razor's edge
22:07
at all moments.
22:08
You're you're constantly on thin ice because, you know, the family has the power of life
22:12
and death over you and your crew and essentially everyone there.
22:16
So I'm going to read this this quote here from blood covenant and then we'll see what
22:19
happened before that.
22:20
The wine tasted sharp and bitter.
22:22
My body had been on such a razor's edge that it had altered my internal chemistry.
22:26
My brothers walked around the room and chatted with me and talked among themselves, but I
22:30
couldn't concentrate on their words.
22:32
They were trying to act like everything was back to normal, but it wasn't just moments
22:36
before they had been about to sentence me to death.
22:39
I would never forget it, even though I had done the same thing.
22:43
If I had been in their position, it was the way things worked in this life.
22:46
It would never be the same for me, not with this family or my own.
22:51
So obviously there was a pretty kind of cornerstone moment for you that happened right before
22:57
that.
22:58
So take us through what happened to kind of lead you to that state of mind.
23:00
Well, yeah, one of the horrors of that life, Kyle, is that you make a mistake serious mistake.
23:07
The best friend walks you into a room and you don't walk out again.
23:10
Obviously, in my 20 plus years in that life, I was aware of that situation with others.
23:18
I got that call one night.
23:19
I won't go into all the details about it, but I literally thought I was being walked
23:25
into a room that I wouldn't walk out of again.
23:28
I was scared.
23:29
There's no question about it.
23:31
My heart was beating out of my chest.
23:34
I don't know how I didn't faint when the door opened up to where the room that I was entering,
23:39
but it was unjust.
23:42
As far as I was concerned, we did walk out of the room.
23:46
Obviously, we cleared everything up, but I think it was a message sent to me that understand
23:52
your position here because I was getting pretty powerful.
23:56
I had a big crew.
23:57
We would make it a lot of money.
23:59
Some of the bosses and the other families were receiving me pretty well.
24:03
My father had been on parole.
24:05
He still had a lot of weight in the family, so I think the other faction of the family
24:10
was getting a little bit nervous that maybe we were thinking about making a move or something
24:14
like that.
24:15
I don't know.
24:16
It did change myself because that night I said, "Look, I'm bringing so much money
24:20
into this family.
24:21
I've been loyal.
24:23
I have no idea of going against anybody, and yet I'm being treated this way."
24:30
I understood afterwards I understood the life and I said, "Okay, this is part of it.
24:34
This is what I signed up for in a way," but it did change things for me.
24:39
It did put me on my guard because something happened with my dad that night that was very,
24:45
very tough for me to accept, very tough, and it changed everything for me.
24:51
I always say this, Kyle, if that incident didn't happen that night, I don't think I
24:56
would have ever walked away from the life.
24:58
In retrospect, it was a life-saving event, a life-turning event, a transforming event
25:03
for me because it set the stage for what would happen later on.
25:07
If you don't mind going into that a little bit more because this seemed like another
25:12
center point for you, the relationship with you and your father changed a little bit,
25:16
and you can obviously give as much detail or as little detail as you want, but your father
25:21
was marched into that room before you.
25:24
One thing that's very clear as you describe it is that Sonny and you, your father and
25:28
you, you thought about the family differently, right?
25:31
You were both dedicated to the family, but his dedication was basically black and white,
25:37
and your dedication had a lot of gradations, it had a lot of different influences in that
25:41
as well.
25:42
Can you walk us through that a little bit as well?
25:45
Yeah, my dad was cold and we were cold and separately, which I didn't like.
25:49
He and I had met up before because he was the one that made me aware of the meeting,
25:53
and we were both captains, capital regimes at that point, so we kind of equally ranked,
25:58
even though I always looked at my father as my superior in that regard, and we argued
26:04
about going separately because I knew there was talk on the street about the money that
26:08
we were making or all this kind of stuff, but he convinced me, he said, "We got an order,
26:11
we got to do it this way," so he was in there before me, and when I got there he wasn't there,
26:17
we had left, but the fellow that brought me there told me something when we walked out,
26:23
he said, "Basically your father didn't help you in there that night, he threw you under
26:27
the bus," and it was shocking to me when I heard that because my father and I had never,
26:34
ever split in any way, you know, we were unified in that life, and it really took its toll
26:40
on me emotionally that night, I never said anything to him, I didn't reveal my feelings
26:45
to anybody in that life, you best keep these feelings to yourself, but it was life-changing
26:51
in that if I didn't feel my father had betrayed me, and he did in a way, I would have never
26:59
walked away from the life later on because I wouldn't want to hurt him, I wouldn't want
27:03
to do that to him because I know how important the life and the oath meant to him, but that
27:08
changed things, so you know, I mean, I guess that's the best way to describe it, this was
27:15
just a precursor for what would happen later on in my view.
27:19
And so let's kind of go and get to that because without getting into all the details, because
27:24
you know, the story's out there, you detail it in several of your books, but obviously
27:27
you went away to prison, it could have been a much, much longer sentencing, but you were
27:31
able to get it to be a smaller one, but there was a story that came out in the media that
27:36
you were quitting the mob, okay?
27:38
And obviously, as you've described before, this is a blood-in-blood out thing, this isn't
27:42
like, you know, working at, you know, some local law firm or something like that, like,
27:47
you can't just get out of life, you can't just walk away from it, you know too much,
27:51
it's just not something that the families will tolerate, but talk to me about the word
27:56
getting out and kind of what that did to you because the reality was, is that was your
28:00
plan, that you were going to get out of the mob, you were going to move from New York to
28:05
California, and that was going to be that, but you didn't want it to be like this big
28:10
national story that it ended up being.
28:12
No, I kind of got, you know, suckered into that because I had taken a 10-year prison
28:18
sentence, this was part of my plan, do some time in prison, pay the government some money,
28:24
take a plea and wrap everything up that had been pending on me, you know, which I'll get
28:30
into.
28:31
I was a young girl, who was now my wife of 37 years, and move out to the white coast,
28:36
when I get out of prison, I'll have parole, probation, I can use that as an excuse not
28:40
to meet with anybody because it's a violation when you're on parole to associate with other
28:45
criminals.
28:47
So that was part of my plan, but while I was in prison, Life Magazine had reached out through
28:52
the warden and said, "Hey, we're doing this big story on you, it'll be a better story
28:57
if you let us interview you."
29:00
So as part of my plan to kind of, you know, calm things down, you know, let the government
29:05
know I'm really gone, I just said, you know, there is no mafia, I married this girl, I'm
29:09
out of the life and so on and so forth.
29:12
And they wrote this story quitting the mafia like I was rejecting the life and the FBI took
29:18
it another level and put word out on the street that I was going to cooperate.
29:22
So, you know, nobody walks away from that life and especially publicly, so everybody
29:28
thought, "Hey, I must be turning in for it, I must be cooperating."
29:32
It wasn't true, I wasn't going to put anybody in prison.
29:35
I was trying to manipulate the government in a little bit to make them think that I was
29:40
really serious about being out of the life because you got to understand, "I was a major
29:44
target."
29:45
I mean, up to that point, from the minute I got involved, that was a target because of
29:48
my name, my dad.
29:50
So I had 18 arrests, I was indicted seven times, I had two federal right-caterian cases, I went
29:56
to 12, five times on state and federal charges.
30:00
So I mean, I was a major target, so I'm trying to let the government know, "Hey, I'm really
30:03
done with this," but not to the point where I was going to cooperate.
30:07
So it put me in a real big mess because, you know, the feds came into the prison and said,
30:12
"Hey, it's all over the street, you know, you're a dead man, your father has turned
30:16
on you, percical, put a hit on you, cooperate with us, we'll put you in a program and we'll
30:22
protect your life and your families."
30:23
And I said, "I'm not going to do that, I don't want any program and I'm not going
30:26
to hurt anybody."
30:27
And it just started a whole series of events that just turned very difficult for me, very
30:33
challenging.
30:34
Yeah, obviously as you're reading through it, it's like, okay, these are problems of
30:38
your own making, but at the same time, it's like you still kind of feel bad for the situation
30:42
that you're in.
30:43
So this sounds like a curt question, this is a question that you've literally answered
30:46
a thousand times, but perhaps my audience hasn't heard it.
30:49
How is it that you are alive today?
30:51
Because again, the only people that we know of that got out of the life that are alive
30:55
are in the Witness Protection Program.
30:57
And these are people that tried to live quiet lives and even sometimes that didn't always
31:01
work out for them.
31:02
And so for you, it's not that long a plane ride from the Northeast to the West Coast.
31:07
And so it's like literally, how did, were you able to walk away from a blood in, blood
31:11
out situation?
31:12
Well, Kyle, there's two answers to that, and one obviously is the spiritual answer.
31:17
I believe God had a different plan for me from my life, that's become obvious over the
31:22
last 20 years, but also the Bible tells us God never throws you into the fire without
31:28
preparing you for it.
31:30
So remember, I'm a student of that life.
31:33
I grew up in it.
31:34
I spent 20 years in it.
31:35
I knew exactly what the guys would do and wouldn't do.
31:38
So I said to myself, okay, they're not going to walk me into a room.
31:42
They're going to have to work to get me.
31:44
It's one thing to walk somebody into a room and put a bullet in your head, and it's another
31:48
thing to fly across country with a hit squad, and go after somebody and kill them when they
31:55
know what's happening.
31:57
So what I did, because murder, you go away for life.
32:00
So here's what I did.
32:01
I changed my entire lifestyle.
32:03
What did I mean by that?
32:04
I didn't create patterns in my life.
32:06
I didn't walk my dog every morning at 7 a.m.
32:09
I didn't go to the same restaurant every Tuesday night.
32:13
I didn't go to clubs anymore.
32:15
I know they're bad places for me.
32:16
I'm pretty well known.
32:18
I want you to be a hero.
32:19
He makes a call back to New York.
32:20
I walk out in a parking lot.
32:22
I'm gone.
32:23
So I was very disciplined and structured my life to know that I'm not going to make
32:27
it easy for anybody.
32:30
And then over a period of time, the feds had put my name on the witness list of several
32:37
trials, but I never showed up.
32:40
And then after doing five years in prison, 13 months on parole, I get violated and sent
32:46
back to prison.
32:47
So now everybody's saying, wait a second, this guy isn't hurting anybody.
32:51
So they keep kind of went off.
32:53
And then over a period of time, Kyle, I just outlasted everybody.
32:57
Everybody I know, dead or in prison for the rest of their life, because you know, you
33:00
know, the racketeering laws in the mid eighties devastated, you know, all five families.
33:05
So they had other things to worry about and I didn't become an important issue.
33:09
Well, and as you mentioned earlier, Michael, you know, obviously got had a plan for your
33:13
life.
33:14
Because you know, your story had it stopped with your first prison sentence would have
33:18
been that that's enough for a movie right there, you know, being able to come up and
33:21
do all these other different things.
33:23
But that that also wasn't God had in store for you.
33:26
I don't want to really tee it up any any further than that.
33:28
But you had a meeting as it were with the creator of the universe and you had to reckon
33:34
with whether or not this Jesus guy, this Middle Eastern Jew that lived a couple thousand years
33:38
ago, whether or not he was your savior or not.
33:40
And you came out and said, yes, indeed he is. So take us through that conversion. Because
33:45
I mean, again, how many people do you know that went from mafia to Christian go?
33:50
Well, after I was out on parole for I think 13 months and violated my parole, basically
33:57
the government was upset with me. I refuse to cooperate in a big case against a fellow
34:01
buddy named John Riggy, who was the boss of the Jersey family. And shortly after that,
34:06
I was violated. And the first night I was in the hole, worst night of my life, because
34:13
the feds had told me they were indicting me on another charge. They took all my money.
34:18
They went to my house for the search warrant. They cleaned us out. They told my wife I'd
34:22
never see my she'd never see her husband on the street again. And it was just a devastating
34:28
night. I figured, Hey, I'm done this time. You know, I'm going to spend the rest of my
34:32
life in prison. I'm going to lose my wife. We had two little babies. It was just a mess.
34:37
And I was, it was a bad night, Kyle. You know, I don't know how else to put it. And it was
34:43
that night that, you know, honestly, I wanted to lay my head on the pillow and not wake
34:48
up, you know, the prospect of spending the rest of your life in a six by eight cell is
34:53
pretty daunting, because I knew they couldn't put me out on the yard. So I said, if this
34:57
is my life, what do I want to live? And I'm laying there and a prison guard walked by
35:03
my cell and he looked at it. He said, Francis, you're okay. You don't look good. I chased
35:07
them away. I said, get away from me, man. Don't bother me. And he came back about, you know,
35:12
a minute or two later and pushed the Bible through the slot on the door. And I picked
35:17
up that book. And that was the night that I started my journey. It was the first time
35:22
I really opened the Bible as a Catholic. You don't read the Bible. You'd normally read
35:26
the catechism. So I started reading the Bible that night and to make a very long story short,
35:33
the big racketeering case that they tried to put on me fell apart. They gave me four
35:38
years on the violation, which was the maximum I spent 35 months and 13 days in prison, 29
35:45
months and seven days in solitary. It was just me and God in that cell for that length
35:50
of time. And that's when my conversion took place. I mean, and Carolina, I want people
35:56
to understand this. You know, my conversion is based upon what I believe to be true and
36:01
I believe to be evidence. I never had any vision of the Lord. He didn't come to me in
36:07
a dream. I don't speak in tongues. He never spoke to me audibly. It was my research and
36:15
my understanding because at the same time I had my wife send me in books on every other
36:19
faith and Christianity just rang true to me. And over the past 20 years, it's just, it's
36:26
just impacted me even more to where I may not be the best Christian out there in any white
36:31
shape or form. I don't get me wrong. But my belief is solid. There's no question in my
36:36
mind that Jesus Christ was born, lived, died from my sins and that one day I'll be resurrected
36:45
with him in heaven. And that's how I feel. So it just really said, it just really penetrated
36:52
during that three, three months or three years I should say in solitary.
36:55
Well, and there was a very good quote from blood covenant that really speaks to that.
36:59
It said, prison had been good for me and I was much better man for it. I'd come through
37:03
it as a much more dedicated and serious believer. This former mafia captain had really become
37:09
a soldier in the army of the Lord Jesus. But I'm going to go back to something that you
37:13
just said, Michael, you didn't have that road to Damascus experience. You didn't have God
37:18
parting the clouds and be like, Hey, I'm real. You should believe in me. It was an evidence-based
37:22
approach. But we live in kind of this modern era where even modern church services, it's
37:28
all about emotions. Like we're going to get you to feel as much emotion as possible during
37:32
the music. We're going to, you know, manipulate you with the, the chord changes and progressions
37:36
and with the lights. And even when the pastor's doing the, you know, the, the altar call at
37:41
the end, they start the piano and they start the dramatic music. It seems like everything
37:44
is about the drama and creating these feelings. When there are a lot of people that come to
37:49
faith through evidence, they study the disciples. They study the first, second and third century
37:55
church. They study, you know, the eyewitnesses of Jesus's resurrection. And then they find
37:59
that the evidence is sufficient for them to put their faith in it. So talk to me a little
38:04
bit about that because I'm more like you that I want to see the evidence show it to me and
38:08
then I'll make a reasonable call. But man, we live in an era where it's, it's all about
38:11
the feelings.
38:12
No, you're right, Colin. I'll tell you what got to me. I mean, I'm a New Testament guy,
38:18
but what, what, there's a couple of things that led to my, you know, real conversion
38:23
and understanding. Number one, the Old Testament is all about prophecy. I remember prophecy
38:28
is not prophecy unless it's right a hundred percent of the time. And if you look at all
38:33
the prophecy in the Old Testament, it's right a hundred percent of the time as it's depicted
38:38
in the New Testament. And in the New Testament, I focused on a couple of things. Number one,
38:45
the disciples who, under the rarest and worst of conditions, after their hero, their leader
38:53
was gone. When they seen the resurrected Jesus, they became stalwarts again and they were
39:00
ready to die for their faith. You don't die for your faith. Okay. And something you don't
39:04
believe it. So I believe strongly in the resurrection because of the actions of the apostles. That's
39:10
number one. And, and I can get into a lot of things. The second thing was, I really focused
39:16
on Jesus of Nazareth, Jesus the man because my entire life, I was told that I had to be
39:21
a man's man. This was the standard I had to live up to. So I really broke down Jesus of
39:27
Nazareth. And I found out that there was no greater man that ever walked the face of the
39:31
earth in every phase of his character. So here's the deduction I came to. Here's what
39:36
I said. I said, okay, if I try to emulate the greatest man that ever walked the face of
39:41
the earth, okay, throughout my life, everybody in touch with me is going to benefit. And I'm
39:46
going to benefit by trying to emulate him. And when I die, well, if he wasn't the savior
39:52
of the world, well, I'm dead anyway. So what did I have to lose? Nothing. Because throughout
39:56
my life, I was as decent a person as I possibly could be. But then I believed totally in the
40:02
resurrection because of the disciples and because of things that happened afterwards. So for
40:06
me, believing in Jesus is a win-win situation. You can't lose no matter what. And I try to
40:13
break everything down to, you know, what's logical to me. And after reading the Bible
40:20
and reading every other faith and understanding it, the logic turned to Jesus in a big way.
40:27
And then of course, different things that I've seen in my life and Kyle, things that
40:31
I've seen in other people's life that put my testimony to pale. I mean, the Lord is really
40:36
working other people's lives. And I've seen that over the past 20 years. So there's no
40:41
other way to go for me, no other way.
40:44
Well, and so Michael, it's funny that you describe it that way because the next thing
40:48
I want to ask you, it sounds dumb to say it now that you're, you're 20 years into your
40:51
Christian walk. But the cynic in me at the time that you basically come out as a Christian
40:57
as it were would have been like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I bet Michael's a Christian now. He's
41:02
wanting to get the feds off his case. He's wanting to, you know, get the heat to die
41:05
down a little bit. And so he wants to make people at least feel bad that they killed
41:10
a man of God kind of a thing. So I know you've been asked that before and you've been asked
41:14
that to your face. Like, Hey, is your faith actually real? I mean, if you're running,
41:19
if you're running a game right now, you're two decades in, you're doing a great job.
41:23
Because you've convinced a lot of people that you actually believe this. But what do you
41:26
say to people? And what would you say to people that are like, yeah, I don't really think
41:30
that's true. I think you're just trying to get out of trouble.
41:32
Well, Kyle, I get that every day, you know, I have a big social media platform. And, you
41:38
know, people look, I will say this, I think, you know, the greater percentage of overwhelming
41:44
percentage of people are kind of in my corner. But you always get those cynics. I'm using
41:49
religion to make money. And it's just another scam. And, you know, and actually you feel
41:53
bad for those people because they don't have, you know, a set moral compass that they really
41:58
understand. But look, I don't think I'm that good that I could fake this over 20 some odd
42:05
years. I mean, I was released from prison in 95. I started my walk in 91. So I'm going
42:10
on 32 years. Yeah. And you know, listen, if I am, if I am a fraud, well, then I'm going
42:17
to pay for it in the end. Because listen, Kyle, I pulled a lot of scams on the street. I was
42:21
pretty good back then. You can't pull a scam on God. So who am I kidding in the end? You
42:27
know, if there is a heaven and there is a hell, I believe 1000% there is, you know, I'm only
42:33
kidding myself if this is all fraud.
42:35
Well, Michael, and it's also a question of fruit because there are plenty of wolves and
42:40
sheep's clothing out there. There are plenty of people that are using God to make money.
42:44
But the fruit in their life is not sweet. It is not good looking fruit. But the fruit
42:49
from your life and the people that know you and that are surrounding you. I mean, I worked
42:52
directly with your daughter to get this this interview scheduled. And so it's like, if you
42:57
were just faking it, either you faked her into convincing this is all this type of thing.
43:02
But like if you were this horrible guy that's still running schemes, like I don't know that
43:06
your your daughter would be a part of them. And so that that's just an interesting thing
43:09
to me. So to transition a little bit, since we're running a little bit short on time,
43:14
I want to talk about a book that you wrote last year in 2022. And it's this one right
43:17
here, mafia democracy, how our republic became a mob racket. So obviously very like intense
43:23
title. Guys, this will be in the show notes so you can pick it up. The first question I
43:27
guess I want to ask is the foreword is by Rudy Giuliani. Now, if you see that you're
43:32
like, Oh, you know, Michael and Rudy must be friends. Guys, Rudy Giuliani was the guy
43:37
that was trying to end the five families reign in New York City. That was the main guy. And
43:42
here we are in 2022. And he's writing the foreword to your book. Talk to me a little
43:47
bit about how that went down because as soon as I saw his name on here, I was like, okay,
43:52
that's pretty intense. Well, take it a step further. I was on trial. Rudy indicted me on
43:56
a major case. And in the courtroom told my, my lawyer and me that if he convicted me,
44:02
he was going to give me double what my father got 100 years, which is kind of time that
44:07
you know, all the bosses got 100 years. That's kind of time that we're given out. So I had
44:11
and that was my last, you know, encounter with Rudy in the courtroom 30 some odd years ago.
44:18
And then just about a year ago, maybe a little bit longer than that, a mutual friend brought
44:23
us together on a radio show. Rudy agreed to come on the show with me. And I agreed. And
44:29
we had a casual conversation, you know, just about the past and the present. And then when
44:35
my publisher said, you think Rudy would write the foreword, I said, Oh, I don't know about
44:39
that, you know, he reached out. He agreed and he wrote a foreword that blew me away. And
44:44
basically he said that he's been watching me for 30 years. And he thinks that I'm sincere
44:49
about my life as it is now. And he wrote a beautiful foreword. I mean, I couldn't have
44:53
asked for anything more, plus he believes in the book. So it's, you know, it's just one
44:58
of those things that, you know, God, God has a crazy way of putting people together. And
45:03
I was very, very pleased and very blessed when he agreed to do that.
45:07
Yeah, if you don't think God has a sense of humor, there's, there's a pretty good example
45:11
that he really does, because back in the 80s and 90s, you would have never thought that
45:14
something like that would be possible. But we don't have time to dig into everything in
45:18
the book, perhaps we can do that at a later date. But just give us kind of the 30,000 foot
45:21
overview of this book, because you get into a ton of detail. That's why I'm almost embarrassed
45:26
to ask you to just kind of bring it in briefly. But when you say like how our republic, because
45:30
we do live in a constitutional republic, guys, not a democracy, but how our republic became
45:35
a mob racket, what do you mean?
45:37
Well, you know, so many people have said to me over the past couple of years that the
45:42
mafia would do a better job running the country than our current administration. And you know,
45:47
years ago, I started to write this book and then I stopped because I said, I don't want
45:52
the government mad at me again. What do I need it for? My life is okay now. But then
45:57
in later years, I felt the responsibility to write the book because of what I'm seeing.
46:01
Our government is absolutely morphing into a mob-like operation. It's all about power.
46:07
It's all about control. It's all about money. You know, and I point this out very specifically,
46:13
this is not a fluff piece. This is accurate. This is research. There's examples. I name
46:18
people. And I also challenge anybody to counter what I say in the book because it's real. Everything
46:27
is real. Everything happens. And it's a scary thing. We should not have a mob-like administration.
46:33
We should not have an administration that is worried about, you know, power and control
46:39
and making money. And that's what's happening. So my reason for writing the book was to make
46:45
people aware, number one, and number two, to tell them, hold our public officials accountable.
46:50
If they're not doing the job, if they're misrepresenting themselves, if they're feeding their own
46:56
tanks and they're not being honest with us, vote them out of office. And that's it. And
47:01
let's find good people because some of them are out there. Let's find them and put them
47:04
in office and get this country back on track.
47:06
Well, Michael, as I was, I was reading through the book, like I'm a guy that pays attention.
47:10
I pay attention to the news cycle, you know, every now and then I'll get caught watching
47:13
CSPAN. And there were examples from your book that obviously that you had to research to
47:18
find them. And they were just shocking that the level of depraved operations that are
47:23
going on at all levels of government. And then there's the ones that most of us all
47:27
know about. But then you don't just leave it there because part of the problem that we
47:30
have in this modern time, Michael, is we have describers and prescribers, but we have few
47:34
people that will do both. They'll describe a problem, but then also prescribe. Here's
47:38
how we can tangibly move that around and shake it around and kind of change it. So guys,
47:43
I definitely recommend you pick up a copy of mafia democracy, but we're running short
47:46
on time. So we're going to end up making this the last question of the day. And I think
47:49
people would like they would, you know, try to get me whacked if I didn't ask you this
47:52
because you've talked about this before. Everyone's seen the mob movies. We've seen the mob shows.
47:57
We want to know, Michael, what is the most accurate mob movie that you've seen the number
48:03
one that's like, that is the closest to the real thing that I've seen the best one.
48:07
Okay. Well, I'd have to say this too. Okay, tell us, and Donnie Brasko, both, you know,
48:15
fairly accurate. Of course, they always take some, you know, dramatic liberty, but fairly
48:21
accurate. And then the most accurate. Now, this is going to be a surprise to everyone
48:26
is the 1996 God in movie with Armando Sante and Anthony Quinn. Okay. The script was taken
48:34
right from surveillance reports and wiretaps that were on the Ravenites social club and
48:39
so on and so forth. It was brilliantly acted, brilliantly written, brilliantly directed,
48:45
and very, very accurate. And I always recommend, I became friends with Armando Sante because
48:50
I recommend the film so much. And he always loved me for it. But I just love the movie.
48:55
I probably watched it 10 times myself. But I would say that the 1996 Gody movie, Donnie
49:02
Brasko, Goodfellas, all pretty accurate, even casino to a degree casino. But those are
49:08
the best.
49:09
What's really funny is as soon as you mentioned Goodfellas, it became, it occurred to me this
49:13
entire conversation when I'm asking you these questions, I have Goodfellas scenes going
49:17
on in my head. So like, you know, when Joe Pesci's character gets walked into the empty
49:21
room, like I was explaining to my wife last night, like, no, babe, that that's a thing.
49:25
That's a thing that happened. Like they walked you into a room, you know, you thought they
49:28
were going to be people in there. You see the rooms empty and you've got about a second
49:32
before you realize like, okay, it's over for me. But Michael, I really, really appreciate
49:36
the time today. I really appreciate you letting us go into all these different areas. But
49:39
that's all for me. Is there anything else you want to get off your chest?
49:41
I just want to mention two things, Kyle. I recently started a platform called mob ties
49:47
and it's actually mobtiesmovement.com. And what it is for all our men today that want
49:53
to be part of an organization, part of a brotherhood where they can not only understand how to
49:59
be real men in 2023, but also how to, you know, be successful in business where it's
50:07
a platform where we're offering everything, not only from myself, but some real experts
50:12
that we put out there. And something else that's very, very exciting is I may be coming
50:17
together on a platform with Mike Tyson and, you know, Mike is very interested in leaving
50:25
his legacy and helping men prosper. He's gone. He's undergone a tremendous transformation
50:30
in his life. Very honest, very sincere, very intelligent. And he and I are clicking on
50:36
a lot of things and we're putting this platform together. It looks like it's coming together.
50:40
So anybody that's interested, you know, mobtiesmovement.com, just keep your eye open. I'll be talking
50:47
about it on YouTube. And we just want to make men men. You know, there's a, there's a movement
50:51
to emasculate men lately. And, you know, I know people like Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson
50:58
are out there and they're trying to do their thing. Andrew's got some issues right now.
51:02
But, you know, I want to make one thing clear to if there's any ladies watching this, teaching
51:06
a man or guiding a man in how to be a real man is only a benefit to a woman. It doesn't
51:12
take away anything from a woman. I happen to love my wife very much. She's the boss in
51:16
our family. I'll be honest with you. I have five daughters and they're all very independent,
51:22
you know, very secure in their way. So, but we want to help men just really prosper in
51:28
this day and age. And so take a look at it. I'm sure you'll be interested in it and we'll
51:33
take it from there. Well, you basically guarantee that we're going to have you back on to talk
51:37
about some more stuff because you opened up a can of worms there at the very end. But
51:40
I know you got to go on to the next thing. But guys, the mob ties movement, that link
51:43
will be in the show notes. But Michael Francis, thank you for coming on a Daunto Life Man's
51:47
podcast. Kyle, I appreciate it. And yes, let's do it again. Thank you very much.
51:52
There you go guys. I hope you enjoyed my time with Michael Francis. But before we let you
51:55
go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost. Adam Daunto life or mission is equipping men
51:59
to push back darkness with content that for just spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
52:03
So here are the links I've got for you today. I've got a link to Michael's website. I've
52:06
got a link to that thing he was talking about there at the end mob ties, the mob ties movement
52:09
so you guys can check that out. But I've also got links to his YouTube channel and where
52:13
you can go and buy a couple of his books. Thank you guys for listening to this episode.
52:16
Wherever you listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five star view.
52:20
If you want to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, you shoot me an email to
52:24
info@andontin.life. That's I N F O at and on to not life. Follow us on Instagram and
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like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else, including how to donate
52:32
to keep more content like this coming your way. Just go to www.undontin.life. And as always,
52:37
we want to thank the band August Burns read for allowing us to use their music for our
52:40
content. The music on this podcast is our song cutting the tides, which is off their
52:44
10th anniversary re recording of their album leveler. The links are in the description.
52:49
I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness. Keep forging
52:54
spiritual, mental and physical resilience. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
53:24
[Music]