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[MUSIC]
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This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast, I'm your host Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.
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All right guys, we got a special guest on the podcast today.
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Her name is Melissa Odin, so she is actually a survivor of a botched saline infusion abortion.
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She's also the author of her memoir, You Carried Me, a daughter's memoir in her new book,
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which is this one right here, Abortion Survivors Break Their Silence.
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In addition to that, she is the founder of the Abortion Survivors Network.
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This one's just a straight up heavy one today, there's no two ways about it.
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Reading her story and getting into the details of the procedure that should have killed her,
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how after she was expelled from her mother's womb and set to the side, thinking that she
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was already dead, only to make a whimper, and the one nurse left in the room, hearing
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her whimper, and then being rushed to the NICU.
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It's just an incredibly heavy story.
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Throughout this interview today, it was very, very hard for me to withhold emotion, and
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I didn't succeed in some of these cases.
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It's just the level of anger I felt about the people that were involved in her story,
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the level of sadness I felt for where those people were, where she was, what she was put
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through, but she is an incredibly inspirational person because she has such a positive outlook,
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such a positive attitude, and she has done something incredible.
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She has turned something that Satan wanted to use for death and turned it into something
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that God is using for his light.
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So in this interview, we do talk about the circumstances behind her abortion, behind
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her mother at the age of 19, basically being forced by her mother, so this would have been
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Melissa's grandmother to abort this baby, the threats that were made to the nurses to
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keep this from her.
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Her biological mother actually didn't find out for over 30 years that Melissa had survived
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this botched abortion, and then we go through all the details of that, and I mean, it is
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just heinous and crazy, and it's just, it's spellbinding, so really hang on and kind of
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listen to it, it's going to be uncomfortable, but you need to listen to it.
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But then we talk about, you know, how God can use horrible, awful situations and people's
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pain for his glory.
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We talk about why she wrote this book, why she's trying to get the word out there about
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the fact that there are a ton of people that have survived these botched abortions and
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how their opinions need to be more mainstream.
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But also we talked about just abortion survivors in general.
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We went through some common pro-abortion arguments, and I got her feedback.
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So when someone says my body, my choice, what do you say when someone says what about rape
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and incest?
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What do you say?
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And then we talk a little bit about her network, the abortion survivors network, and how you
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guys can get involved.
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So again, this is a heavy one.
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It's appropriate for all ages.
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So you don't need to have too much of a trigger warning here, but it's definitely, definitely
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worth your time.
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Definitely we're sharing around.
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And I'm not going to keep her from you any longer.
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So without further ado, let's get into it.
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Melissa Oden, welcome to undaunted life of man's podcast.
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Hey, thanks for having me.
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I am so happy to talk with you today.
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I've been looking forward to this one, but I typically have some sort of unique way of
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transitioning into my first question, but there's really no easy way to transition into
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talking about your life or your amazing story.
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So we're just going to start from the beginning.
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You shouldn't be here right now and we'll get to that.
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We will certainly get to that, but let's talk about your early life.
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So let's talk about growing up in a family.
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We're very, very early on.
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You knew that you were adopted.
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I have a lot of friends that were adopted.
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Many of them found out later in life.
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I guess later is kind of relative, but you found out really, really early, which I find
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that to be unique.
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So let's start there.
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Yeah.
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I think like many people, right, I grew up from my youngest age, knowing I was adopted.
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I knew I was loved.
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I had an older sister who was adopted, right?
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Lots of people can relate to those things.
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I knew Jesus from my youngest age, right?
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I can't even tell you when I didn't know Jesus, right?
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That's just who my parents were.
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And I think like most people, right?
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I thought I'd let a pretty normal life, right?
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Just Midwestern, sort of basic, you know, just small farming community.
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And then when I was 14, really everything changed.
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Well, and I feel like your story really kicks into high gear and, you know, we cover this
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whenever we get to the book and you've covered it and I talked about it a little bit in the
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intro.
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But there was a heated argument that you had with your sister Tammy and Tammy blurted something
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out and from that's kind of like a cornerstone moment of your life.
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So what she blurted out was, at least my parents wanted me.
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And so let's go back to that moment where you're dealing with your older sister and kind of
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take us through what happened there.
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Right.
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Cause so far, this seems like a really boring interview, doesn't it, of like, okay, so she
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was adopted.
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She's from the Midwest, she knew Jesus, and so, right, and so, but right.
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Everybody has a backstory.
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Every family has a secret and yeah, the words, at least my biological parents wanted me were
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earth shattering and, you know, like any good teenage sister, I was ready to brawl if I'm
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being brutally honest, right?
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Those words, I was like, let's go, right?
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How dare you?
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And when she said those words, the look on her face really did stop me in my tracks because
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it was just this look of just panic, right?
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And we started to have this moment as siblings where she was looking at me going, oh my gosh,
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you don't know, do you?
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And I'm standing there thinking, this is what, what is this?
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And very ominously, she said, you know, wait up for mom and dad tonight and ask them to
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tell you the truth and you will see.
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And I think we all go through those moments, right, we're like, what the heck, right?
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What, what, what is this?
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What could it be?
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And you think you are prepared for whatever this bad news, this earth shattering thing
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is, but never in my mind, Kyle, what I have stood there and went, you know, I bet I was
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aborted and I survived.
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That was not on the menu.
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That's typically not on the menu like anyone that I've talked to because that is a fairly
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extreme way to find out that, but it's not as extreme as your story ended up being.
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But your adoptive mother, she sat you down and kind of told you about your biological
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mother and part of that conversation was, Hey, your, your biological mother tried to
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kill you.
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And so we'll get into the details of that exact story because obviously it's worth covering
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today.
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But just talk to me about that conversation because if you have a whirlwind of things
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going through your brain, you're also a child, right? So it's not like you're in a dull
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where you can have the ability to reckon with a fully functioning brain.
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You're basically just, you know, you're, you're your little kid at this point. And so it's
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like, wait, this isn't mom. This is adoptive mom, but she kind of feels like mom still.
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But now she's telling me about my mom and then wait a minute, my mom tried to kill me.
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So let's go there.
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Yeah, it doesn't really matter what age you find out. And I mean, to be honest, right?
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I see every survivor struggle. If they're like 60 and they're finding out when their
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biological parent is on their deathbed, or you're 14 like me and it's this complete
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and our accident and it comes out in this really crappy way, or, you know, you're eight
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years old and you find out through a very prepared way, which is part of the work that
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I do now is helping set the stage.
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So these conversations are, you know, healthier that we can have better outcomes. But there
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is this really, I mean, surrealness, you know, I was raised to know that that I was loved.
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And not just by my adoptive parents, but by my biological parents who gave me life when
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they couldn't care for me. And then when you hear those words, right, some of you tried
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to take your life and you are trying to reconcile that going, do these two things exist together
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because how can they love me and try to do that to me? And so you have this really crisis
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of identity and really, I mean, in some ways, a crisis of faith, right, of going, OK, God,
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I know you spared my life, you created me, but no, just no, right, how is this my life?
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And then as you're having this really interior struggle, even at the age of 14, right, you
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also have this exterior struggle looking at the culture out there and going, Oh, no. Oh,
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no. This is what the world out there by and large says about abortion. And so if they're
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saying that it's a right, what does that say about me? And so then you see this, the exterior
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butt up against the interior. And then you have this whole right inner turmoil going
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on. And then at the age of 14, I was a people pleaser going, I can't tell anybody how awful
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this is for me. Aren't I just supposed to be grateful? Well, what there's so much more
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that I would like to address there because I was just talking to someone the other day
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about people that talk about sexual assaults that happened years ago. It's like, well,
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it makes sense that if someone, I won't get into all the details of the conversation,
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but it makes sense that if a young girl is sexually assaulted and her sexual assault
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or whispers in her ear, when he's done, if you tell anyone I'll kill you, are you shocked
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that she didn't immediately run to mom and dad or run to the police? Can we have some
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grace for this young lady? Now there are other people that just make up the stories whole
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cloth and that's not what we're talking about. But obviously there's so much emotion happening
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as you're trying to develop into a young lady. But let's go back to the young lady that was
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your mother Ruth. Let's talk about what life looked like for her when she was 19.
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Yeah. And, you know, this has been a long journey to know my story and then find out
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even more secrets than my adoptive parents knew. So they adopted me knowing, you know,
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my birth mom Ruth was 19. She was a college student knew she had been dating my biological
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father. Now I know they were actually engaged to be married. They had dated all throughout
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high school into college. And there were reasons that my birth parents were not supported
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right now. I know my birth mom's parents didn't have a lot of respect for my birth father.
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And that wasn't through any fault of his necessarily, right? I mean, they were not people who were
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can were unconditional love people, right? Things were very, very conditional with them.
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And so, you know, they, they weren't supportive of my birth parents relationship. And so when
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my birth mom found out that she was pregnant with me, which, you know, she didn't even
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recognize it. I, you know, we all see those videos where women go, I gave birth and I
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didn't even know I was pregnant. And I look at them and go, what? Like, how do you not
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know? My birth mom was in similar shoes at the age of 19. She didn't realize that she
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was pregnant. She was athletic, right? She had some physical weird things going on, but
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she didn't recognize anything as, as pregnancy symptoms. And I'm sure some of that is sort
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of denial at the time, right? Like, man, I, this can't be a situation. I know it's unsafe
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for me. But, you know, she didn't realize she was pregnant with me. And her mother,
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my maternal grandmother was an OBGYN nurse and supervised a lot of nurses in a nursing college.
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And so, you know, that summer of 1977, my birth mom was confronted by her mom because
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she recognized that there was something physically changed with her and her. And I want people
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in our culture to put themselves in the shoes of both Ruth and my biological father, right?
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For the guys listening, like, imagine what it's like to be in love with a woman. Find
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out that she's pregnant and be scared to death, right, at a young age, but also know that you
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love this person and you are willing to do what it takes. But then be sat down by her
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family and be yelled at. So loud that the windows rattle on the house and other people
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can remember that. And be told, you have no say, right? There is nothing to be done.
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This will be taken care of. And within days, my birth mom was forced into a hospital and
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that late term abortion was started. And I can tell you, you know, now with my birth
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father, I know that really that was that was their last real moment together. After the
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abortion, they only spoke on the phone one time. And that was related to her ring. I
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now know that she was told that she had to sell his engagement ring to pay for the abortion
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that she didn't want.
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Wow. Layers of that onion just keep getting worse and worse. As you describe it, I didn't
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realize most of those details and weren't in those weren't in the book. And so that's
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one thing that I do talk about Melissa, when I talk in front of large groups about the
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abortion topic, I start with there's now therefore no condemnation for those who are
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in Christ Jesus. And then I talk about statistically speaking, how I know there are women in the
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crowd that have had abortions. I also know there are men in the crowd that have paid
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for abortions that have sat by and watched as their children were taken. And that also
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the grandparents have paid to make their problem go away because they've got a perfect
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family, right? The perfect family. And it's a it's a young lady. Oh, she's 15 and she
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got pregnant. Well, we can't have the guys down at the golf club know that. So we're
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just going to pay four or 500 bucks to get this to go away. Like I've seen that depravity
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even in my own my own town, my own town, unfortunately. But let's go back to that fateful day at
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St. Luke's Regional Medical Center in Sioux City, Iowa. And take us through the process
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of the saline induced abortion that your mother and her doctors tried to use to kill you because
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in modernity, we don't really talk about saline induced abortions. But back then that was
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a fairly common practice. So take us through what I guess you could saw, even though this
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is macabre to say, take us through what a successful saline induced abortion would normally look
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like. And then take us through what, you know, basically you went through. Right. So I am
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I am the face of what an unsuccessful abortion is a live person. Right. We have to reckon
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with that in our society to say, man, that's what abortion is. Right. This is there's
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no beating around the bush. We all know this. We need to stop pretending like we don't know.
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So in reality, you're exactly right. That saline infusion abortion was the most common
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procedure back then. And frankly, they stopped performing it because too many of us survived
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the procedure. That's why we saw them move to much more, quote unquote, effective ways
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of making sure people like me aren't born alive. So that's why we ultimately saw, you
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know, D and E's ripping a baby apart partial birth abortion. Right. Because people like
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me dared to defy the odds. So, you know, that saline infusion abortion involved injecting
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a toxic salt solution into the amniotic fluid. And so, right, they would remove a little bit
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of amniotic fluid and then they would fill the womb with this toxic saline. And the intent
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of it was to poison and scald the child to death. So typically procedure lasted about
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three days. If the child was lucky enough, they would die within about the first 24 hours
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and then they would induce labor in the remaining time. And of course, the intention is always
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for a dead baby to be the outcome. But if folks go through some articles like the dreaded
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complication series in the Philadelphia Inquirer back in 1981, that was up for a Pulitzer
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Prize. It is a horrific, nasty read, but I can tell you that it's a worthy read to understand
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what abortion is and what it has been doing to women and children for decades. But through
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it, you know, you could read about how babies like me were either, you know, being born
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alive and being blackened, right, and maybe not living for very long or being delivered
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dead. Or yes, also, you know, accidentally being born alive. And, you know, I now know
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through my medical records that my birth mother's abortion lasted for five days, not
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three days. I often joke, I'm really stubborn, like I'm just not going down. And, you know,
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but all kidding aside, right? I soaked and I soaked and I soaked in that toxic salt
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solution while they kept trying to induce her labor. And I wouldn't budge. And finally
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on that fifth day, I was delivered at St. Luke's Hospital believing that I would be a successful
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abortion. And you know, that day that I now celebrate as my birthday is the day that I
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That's K Y L E to get 10% off your order. And we'll get back to what happened thereafter.
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But I do want to read a quote from your new book and we'll talk more about the new book,
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but it's called abortion survivors break their silence. And I want to read this quote
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here. I've since learned that they told Ruth, your mother, not to look as I was delivered,
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that I was a hideous monster. They even told her the abortion was successful, that I was
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dead. Ruth Ruth was afraid to ask if I was a girl or a boy, and neither her mother nor
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the doctor volunteered the information unbeknownst to Ruth, they simply set me aside to die.
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Now it's hard for me to even read those quotes. Okay, it was hard for me to read this book.
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I just I hate bullies. I hate this so much in the men in my audience hate it. And I try
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to give them a way where they can reckon with this type of information. But you should have
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come out a hideous monster because of what they did to you, because of what that salient
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induce abortion is supposed to bring. So I don't even really need you to comment on that
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because I do want to move on to. And again, it's hard for me to paint someone that I don't
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know in this way. But Ruth's mom, your grandmother Helen, obviously she was kind of the ringleader
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in pressuring this abortion. But I do want to read this quote from the book as well. Many
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years later, I found and spoke to the nurse who was present at my delivery more on her
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in just a second. Not only did Helen make it clear to the nurses that I was to be left
19:38
unattended, but no one was to ever tell my birth mother the truth, or they would regret
19:43
it. My heart still breaks for those nurses. They were placed in an agonizing position,
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unwilling accomplices to deception, and a total disregard for the suffering of a tiny
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dying baby. So I don't know if you ever got closure with Helen or any of those types of
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things. I want you to kind of talk about that because this is like a movie villain. That's
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what this sounds like to where it's that it's that that evil mom, that, you know, the
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eat-a-pole all-consuming mother that has complete control over her husband and her children and
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will do whatever it takes to do what she thinks is right in her own mind and to threaten these
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nurses by saying, essentially, even if this baby comes out alive, don't you dare tell my
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daughter what's happening? Again, this isn't my family. This is, this is ultimately your family.
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How have you come to closure? What all have you learned about that circumstance? Because
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just reading in the book, I was just furious. Yeah. And I think that's, you know, that's a normal
20:46
human response, isn't it? For us to have righteous anger over injustice. And, you know, what I can
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say is God has been so deliberate, I think, in my life of like, okay, I'm going to unfold this piece
21:00
of the story in a manageable time when it is something that you can tolerate, right? If I would have
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been told all these things, Kyle, when I was 14, I would have probably just, right, that was it,
21:14
right? I don't think I would have been able to manage all of those pieces. Even though right
21:20
the more I've learned, the more my love has grown for my biological mother and my biological father.
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And I mean, this sounds so weird to say, I'm going to, I have to preface it because it does sound so
21:34
weird given the circumstances. But I do have love in my heart for my grandmother as a fellow
21:41
broken human being, right? I can't. I am not in a place of anger, condemnation, judgment towards her.
21:49
That is not why I share our story. And her name is even a pseudonym, right? I am not out here to
21:54
blast her story to the world. I have tried to tiptoe and manage my way through it, but share it at the
22:01
same time so that people end this cycle. I meet too many women who have gone through the same thing
22:09
that Ruth has of a controlling mother, a controlling father, the Christian sitting next to you at
22:14
church, the pastor who has done it, who has recommended it, supported it, right? All of those things.
22:20
So sometimes we have to break our silence so that other people know they're not alone and the
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cycles change in families and our culture. And I guess in many ways, right? Jesus just made me
22:32
to be this sort of like cycle breaker. And as a former people, please are holy jeez. I mean,
22:39
this has been uncomfortable for me, but this is what the world needs to understand. And
22:43
yeah, now I know they told Ruth I was a successful abortion. She didn't know. I ultimately was rushed
22:53
off to the NICU. Now I know that my grandmother followed the nurse in who took me there. And
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that's when she pointed at them and said, don't you ever tell my daughter this baby survived.
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I was ultimately moved to another hospital within a few weeks. And you know, I always thought that
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that was for more medical care. And that is true. But now I know, right? There was this other back
23:15
story behind why it happened. Well, Melissa, even inadvertently, what you describe there is you
23:22
describe the beauty that is the gospel, because regardless of our level of depravity, the gospel
23:29
applies to us. And again, that that's why I start with there's now therefore no condemnation for
23:35
those who are in Christ Jesus, because we're all condemned, if not for that. And so everybody's level
23:43
of depravity is their own. And we all have our particular favorite, favorite flavor of depravity.
23:48
Some people's favorite flavor is lying on their taxes. Some people's favorite flavor is murdering
23:53
people. But it's all our flavor of depravity. And I have shaken the hands of people that have
23:58
murdered people that have raped people that have abused children. And they're now saved and covered
24:03
by the blood of the lamb. And they are afforded the same rights to salvation and the absolving of
24:08
their sin is everybody else. So yeah, okay, amen, I'll take that as a co-sign. We have other people,
24:15
right? And it changes everything. Well, Melissa, as I'm saying all that, it sounds really virtuous
24:23
of me. But I'm saying that because I have to, because I got a bit of an anger problem, I got a
24:27
bit of an edge to me. And again, I just can't stand real injustice, not fake made up injustice,
24:33
like, Oh, somebody asked me where I was from. And I got, you know, it's a microaggression.
24:36
I mean, actual injustice. And there's nothing more unjust than doing this to a living human being.
24:44
But let's go back to that room. You've been delivered. You've been put to the side. Everyone in the room
24:50
assumes that you are dead and a nurse who, as far as I know, you don't know who this woman is.
24:57
Notice is that you're whimpering. So let's go back to that. Like, I mean,
25:02
I would want to find this woman with with every fiber of my being. And I know that you have some
25:06
of that in you. But like, again, this is this is a movie script. This doesn't seem like real life.
25:12
Like you're a dead baby. That all of a sudden isn't dead anymore. Let's talk about it.
25:16
It is like something out of a movie, right? A movie that Hollywood would never want to write,
25:22
you know, our culture is like, nope, movies like that don't exist. But they do, right? We're all
25:28
over the place. So yeah, I my app, our score, right? If people have had babies, right? You know,
25:34
that you get an app, our score when you're born. I mean, my mind wasn't great. I think I was like
25:38
a six if I remember, right? And out of a scale of, you know, one to 10. And then within five minutes,
25:44
I was nearly dead. And so I don't know how long I was laid aside. I don't know how long those arguments
25:52
ensued of, you know, my grandmother saying, you will leave this child. But I do know that babies
25:58
like me at that hospital actually were taken to a utility closet and placed in buckets of
26:05
formaldehyde and left as medical waste to be picked up later. And you know, this stuff I shouldn't
26:10
have to talk about, right? I shouldn't, especially someone who's gone through trauma, like I shouldn't
26:15
have to like investigate the trauma, educate real about the trauma. Right. So but that's right,
26:22
what I've been called to. And you know, the only reason why I know that that's where babies like
26:27
me went is because I've met the nurses who did it and have had to apologize to me. And I always
26:32
tell people like, you know, thanks for apologizing to me, I don't need you to do that. But they do
26:37
it anyway. But I didn't make it to the utility closet. I mean, by the grace of God. And I don't
26:44
know who that nurse was that rushed me off to the NICU. I do know that she was a tall blonde nurse.
26:49
I've been given those details and I'm, I have a good idea where she's living. I mean, it's such a,
26:54
my story is such a God story time and time again of like, my life is spared. These God
27:00
things happen. These people prayed over me. These people love me into life. God continues to work
27:05
these miracles. But yeah, I think I know who she is. And you know, I'm forever grateful that she put
27:13
her job on the line that day and rushed me off to the NICU. But that should not be the case, right?
27:19
Nobody should have to go. Yeah, you know, I'm going to take one for the team and rush this baby
27:23
off to the NICU. No. Well, because we've all heard the stories of the nurses that do this,
27:29
they're part of abortions like this, the baby survives, and they don't act. And then we've seen
27:35
things in Congress of, you know, basically making sure that nurses can't act. But it shouldn't take
27:40
a heroic act from a nurse to do the right thing. And it's funny to even say the right thing because
27:45
here she was participating in a murder at the beginning, only to become the savior at the end.
27:50
I mean, I remember there was a gentleman of mine, a friend of mine, whose father was dying of COVID.
27:55
And this was at the time when you couldn't set foot in the hospital to even say bye to your family
27:59
members, you had to say bye to them via FaceTime, right? And a nurse came down the stairwell and
28:05
found my buddy in the parking lot and walked him up the stairwell, PPE, the hell out of them.
28:11
So he could say bye to his father. And it's like, it didn't, that didn't need to happen,
28:15
you know, like that should have never been in place in the same thing with a situation like this.
28:20
And so that's your story. It's obviously a rough story to stuff, tough story for you to talk about,
28:24
it's a tough story for anyone to even hear. But you could have just taken that information,
28:30
Melissa, and kept a very private profile and been very quiet about this because this is a
28:37
depraved thing that a lot of people would much rather just not talk about, even imply company
28:42
much less on a public platform. But in 2007, at the age of 30, you decide that you want to start
28:50
sharing your story with the world. Why did you decide to start doing that?
28:54
I think it's that combination of, you know, faith and healing and looking at a culture of
29:03
injustice and going, if not me, then who, right? And I think, you know, in many ways, I mean,
29:10
people figure this out about people like me, we are so influenced by that trauma in the womb
29:15
that we have a fight or flight response, right? We look at everything in the world and we're like,
29:19
I'm either going to fight or I'm going to run. God never made me to be a runner.
29:22
And I've come to appreciate that wholeheartedly. And I hope that other people walk through that
29:30
as well, right? Because we think we know what we're capable of. But when we step forward in faith,
29:35
I think that's when we truly become who God created us to be all along. And so, you know,
29:41
when I first started sharing my story, I thought, this is nice, right? I mean, I'm doing this for
29:46
you, Lord, like, cool, one and done, right? Could this be a one and done? And what I figured out
29:51
along the way is like, this is not a one and done. This is my life's calling. And I am so much stronger
29:59
than I ever thought I was. And I think when we stand up to the bully of our culture and the
30:06
abortion industry, and we feel like I'm not going to survive this, right? They are going to attack
30:12
me. And they have, right? Time and time again. And they be little and marginalize you and shame
30:18
you and attempt to shame you into silence. And you really are faced time and time again with that
30:25
choice of like, am I going to go dark? Am I going to go quiet? Am I going to let them
30:30
shape who I am? Or am I going to keep believing and become stronger? And that's ultimately,
30:37
you know, what I've done in my life is keep showing up.
30:40
Well, and the thing Melissa is, is so someone will look at someone like you that has taken the
30:45
slings and arrows or someone like me who does a show like this where I talk about incendiary
30:49
things like, no boys can't become girls, no, we shouldn't murder babies when they're in the womb,
30:53
you know, crazy things like that. And they they'll ask like, how do you get through those situations?
30:59
And the answer is one situation at a time. That's how I get through it. And so it's like,
31:03
you can't deal with all the negative comments all at once. You deal with them one at a time,
31:07
you get to choose whether you engage with them or not, you get to choose whether you engage with
31:11
the attacks or not. And then you just move forward. But if you're doing this as a mandate from God,
31:18
if you feel like you're over the X, right, all your, the only choice you have is to keep going,
31:24
right? There's never like, I think people don't really understand with people like you that do
31:28
these things that are courageous, but seem courageous just to normal everyday folk. It's like, look,
31:33
you don't, we are compelled to continue. It's not like every day we're having to wake up and be like,
31:39
well, am I going to tell my story again? Let me make a decision. No, we've pre decided that we
31:43
are going to fight for real justice in all these situations. So in 2007, you start doing that by
31:50
doing this publicly, but also in that year, you discover the identities of your birth parents,
31:56
and you actually reunited with Ruth that year. And so I think that was on the heels of you,
32:01
you know, speaking about this publicly, but I want to read a quote from your new book here
32:05
that kind of gets us into this discussion. I'm grateful to say that roof didn't have to wait
32:09
too long for answers. Our face to face meeting was a moment of redemption and reconciliation.
32:14
I got chills when she said to me, Melissa, for years I struggled with deep regrets and shame.
32:19
Why hadn't I run away to save my baby? Why hadn't I fought harder against my mother?
32:24
I learned to live with the horrible emotional pain that my compliance had caused your death,
32:29
a pain that never healed. So this is a woman that now knows you're alive. And yet she is still
32:35
dealing with the pain of being a compliant accessory to murder. What an unbelievable
32:43
bevy of emotions that she's having to deal with in this, in this time. But just take me through,
32:49
like, I can't even imagine what that was like walking into the room to address Ruth in that
32:55
moment and just take us through what that was like. Yeah, and I'll just, like, let me add some context
33:01
to that. So I found out who they were in 2007 found my medical records, which, you know, most
33:05
survivors will never have any medical records. And frankly, you know, part of what I'm trying to do
33:10
is confront our culture to say stop shaming survivors for not having medical records, right?
33:16
Stop accusing us of being liars, of wanting to be famous. My gosh, it is not our fault when
33:22
the medical professionals in abortion industry don't want to document this. Stop shaming us.
33:27
But I am one of those who have my medical records. And that's how I found out who they were.
33:31
And actually, I did not meet Ruth until we actually started communicating not until 2013.
33:41
And we didn't meet face to face until 2016. I had a little bit of contact with my birth father's
33:47
family. He ended up passing away at the age of 51 before we could ever communicate. I sent some
33:55
communications his way. You know, God's plans and our plans don't always match. And I have had to
34:02
to learn to respect that and see the bigger picture. But you know, the reason why I didn't
34:08
have any communication with Ruth for so long is because I couldn't find her. I had some communication
34:13
with her family. And they never told me that there was this big secret, right? Like, Oh,
34:18
PS don't approach us again, because we never told your biological mother you survived. That's not
34:23
how that letter went. It was enough information to probably try to keep me away. And when we moved
34:33
to Kansas City back in 2013, her family sort of got this really God moment realizing this is where
34:39
I was. They saw me on TV sometime in between that. And that's when they had to finally tell her,
34:46
you know, without naming names, they knew immediately who I was by the details of the story that I
34:51
knew at the time. And frankly, I look exactly like my biological father. So they knew that. So,
34:57
yeah, put yourself in Ruth's shoes like around 2010. She's lived right 30 some years thinking the
35:03
abortion was successful. And there's this like incredible joy, right? Knowing your child survived,
35:10
but then the anger at your family for what had happened in the first place, then the secrets,
35:15
and them knowing that she had suffered in her life with that having happened and still not
35:21
breaking their silence. And then in right in her life, she had this deep fear of Melissa must hate
35:28
me, right? There's no way she could love me the way I hear her say she does. There's no way she
35:32
could forgive any of us. And man, the pro life movement, other people like her must somehow hate me.
35:38
No. Okay, we can't, I don't want to skip over this. But again, as I'm reading your book, it's just
35:47
again, just the visceral, hopefully righteous anger that was willing up in me into all the
35:53
people that were involved here, but to her family, that they literally waited until the last moment
36:00
to address Ruth and say, Hey, you might be hearing some stuff coming out here soon. By the way,
36:06
whoopsie Daisy, here's some information that we kept from you for 30 plus years. Like,
36:12
did you get any sense of how Ruth was able to reconcile that with her family? What were there?
36:18
Were relationships severed because of that, because of all the different things that could
36:23
possibly happen, a severing of a relationship seems like it would be likely the top thing on
36:27
the menu. I mean, how does how does one go about dealing with that level of betrayal from family?
36:33
Yeah, that's 100% what has happened right now. And I mean, you know enough about how abortion impacts
36:40
lives and families to understand that abortion doesn't save relationships. It ends relationships.
36:47
It creates horrible circumstances. And we see entire families change for generations by abortion.
36:55
So many times I'll meet people and they'll go, man, there's this thing that happened in my family and
36:59
we don't talk about it. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I know what you're talking about. And really,
37:05
this is what I want people to understand. This is what I want the church to have to face is like,
37:10
if we don't talk about this, even in our churches, what an incredible injustice we're doing to the
37:15
preborn, what an incredible injustice we're doing to women and men, and what an incredible injustice
37:21
we're doing to families because we are thwarting God's grace in family's lives for there to be
37:26
healing. So get with the program church. Like, come on. But that is right. That's what happened
37:33
in my birth mother's family. There had already been right this the strife in the family because
37:39
of the dynamics and then this forced abortion and the secrets. And you know, the way I often
37:44
describe it, Kyle is like, I look at their lives and I know God gave them so many opportunities.
37:51
Right. So many paths like whoops, the abortion failed. Hey, you might want to do something different.
37:56
Oh, the baby survived and you could give her the opportunity to parent. Oh, oh, not right.
38:05
So look at our own lives and go like, what is God trying to tell you? Is God giving you multiple
38:10
opportunities to make things right? And are you going to say yes to that? Or are you just going to
38:15
keep following your own will and screwing everything up? I think that's absolutely the case. And I
38:22
want to key in on something that you just said, it actually relates to the next quote. This is a
38:26
lengthy quote from the book, but it's just basically giving us an idea of, okay, God can use and does
38:31
use painful, dark, awful situations to bring about his light and his glory. So let me read this here.
38:36
My parents were a huge support to me as I continued my search for answers about my history and the
38:40
years that followed. And they weren't the only ones I drew closer to. I found solace in my faith
38:45
in God, which became more essential and more personal than ever. Yet in spite of this enhanced
38:49
closeness with God and my parents, a sense of aloneness as an abortion survivor took root in my soul.
38:55
But now comes the good news. God used those feelings of isolation as a driving force in my life.
39:01
Those feelings drove me to learn more about my origin story and to connect with my birth family.
39:06
Those feelings drove me to become a voice in our culture that raises awareness of abortion
39:10
survivors so that others can see that every life does matter. Those same feelings also
39:16
drove me to connect with other survivors and help them break their silence so that they too
39:21
can bear witness to the value of every life. So let's go back to the church. The church loves
39:27
to avoid things that seem icky. And let's just be honest, the abortion thing seems really, really
39:33
icky. And I have seen pastors that are terrified of the women in their congregations that have had
39:39
abortions. And so they don't mention abortion at all. Or they hop into the subject matter and hop
39:45
right back out because they're cowards. And all they're doing is missing out on an opportunity
39:51
to hold a mirror up to the woman or to the man that's involved in this process and say,
39:58
this is your depravity. It is sin. It is terrible. And it can damn you to hell. If you don't have
40:04
the propitiation of your sins by the blood of the lamb. And then you share a full-throated gospel
40:10
with that person. But if a person sitting in the congregation thinks that, well, you know,
40:15
Jesus didn't die for me because he didn't need to because I'm great, because I'm forgiven,
40:18
because I'm a victim, because I'm whatever their thing is, you're missing out on an opportunity. So
40:24
my, my, my, I guess mandate to churches is you have to talk about the subject. Don't sit there
40:31
and say, Hey, if you've had abortion stand up and then basically rail on these women and point
40:35
at them and say that they're awful, but point them to the only one that can give them true closure
40:40
and true forgiveness. I just, I don't know why pastor, well, I do know because they're cowards,
40:45
but talk to me a little bit about that because the church is the best place for the sick to go.
40:51
And yet pastors are sitting there with all these sick people in their congregation and they're
40:54
refusing to address the illness. Yeah, I think it's this. I mean, it's the culture
41:00
out there, right, by and large part of it. I mean, we are impacted by our culture, but
41:05
I think folks just don't even begin to take the time to understand how we can hold these two things
41:13
together at the same time, which is the righteous anger over the act of abortion. And yet the love
41:18
and forgiveness for someone who has been impacted by it, but who but the church, right? Who but the
41:23
church and Jesus as followers to know that right, he is the only only bomb in the middle of it,
41:30
right? And that we have to talk about the hard things in order to help people experience the love
41:36
and forgiveness of Christ, right? Like we can't, if not, if, right, just like when I went through
41:41
in my life, if not me, then who. So hey, pastors, if not you, then who? We can't leave it up for
41:47
somebody else. And you know, if I can be brutally honest, because I feel like I can have this
41:51
conversation with you, I get really irritated by pastors who pat themselves on the back and are
41:58
like, we talk about this on sanctity of human life Sunday. Oh, good for you. Where are you the
42:06
other 364 days out of the year? Yep. So again, right? Like we, people should be able to show
42:14
up a church and be like, man, this is different than our world, right? I am getting the truth and
42:20
I am getting the love. And if you're walking into your church and you can't tell the difference
42:24
between the outside and the inside, there's your sign. Right. And I tell people all the time, it's
42:31
like, I'm not condemning good music. That sounds like the music that's in culture. I'm not condemning,
42:36
you know, sermons that have good lessons that you can take and apply directly to your life. But
42:40
that's not the point of Sunday morning is to be entertained by a concert to be given life lessons.
42:45
It's to come together as the body of Christ to worship the Savior and to spread the good
42:49
news of the gospel. And that's hard to do when you ignore things, because you have a lot of
42:53
pastors that are like, Oh, I want to be known for what I'm for, not what I'm against. And, you know,
42:57
we're not going to fight the culture wars and we're not going to whatever. But it's like, hey, buddy,
43:01
the abortion topic, it involves culture, it involves politics, it involves all these areas
43:07
that you say you're too righteous to deal with, because we're just going to be concerned about
43:10
the gospel. And yet they're not preaching the gospel in the areas that are the most dark that
43:16
need the gospel the most. And so it's like, I don't buy it. It's, it's just like a cheat code for these
43:21
people because they're scared to talk about it. And I've even talked about how even my home church
43:25
in the seven or eight years or so that I've been there, the abortion topic has been talked about
43:29
for like a grand total of five minutes. But they did allow me to come and speak and do my engaging
43:34
pro abortion arguments talk for anyone in the church that would want to come. There wasn't a
43:40
whole lot of resources put behind it. They wouldn't even announce it from the stage. And it was just
43:44
kind of one of those weird things. It's like, what are we hiding from? Like, like we would never tell
43:49
someone that's a murderer, like, Oh, you know what, there was probably circumstances in your
43:53
childhood that led to you chopping someone's head off and rolling it down the sidewalk. Like,
43:56
we would never do that. We would never equivocate. And we would never let our sermon die the death
44:01
of a thousand qualifications before we delivered it. But again, that that is, I think you're absolutely
44:06
right, Melissa, in that it is the moment of culture that we live in. And in too many churches,
44:12
that church is downstream of what's happening in culture, unfortunately. So as part of your work,
44:17
as part of what you're doing in this area, you did write a new book that I talked about earlier,
44:21
abortion survivors break their silence. I've already read a few quotes from here.
44:25
And the thing is, is this book kind of gives you an idea of how common botched abortions are,
44:31
where the child thankfully survives. So I guess in this particular book, you're, you're doing a
44:36
bunch of stories, you're revealing a bunch of stories of people that have survived botched
44:40
abortions. And all the stories kind of have a different flavor and there's different circumstances
44:45
and stuff like that. And so I want to get you to share a particular story here in a little bit.
44:49
But just in general, why write the book? Why give more of a voice to the people that
44:54
basically a lot of people on the left say don't even exist, which is people that have survived
44:58
botched abortions? Yeah, I mean, I've testified before Congress more times that I can count,
45:03
right? This woman who thought that I could never have a voice and I should just make,
45:07
be afraid and all these things. And, you know, many times when I've testified, I've essentially
45:14
gotten like this little pat on the head, right, of like, oh, aren't, aren't you so cute? Like,
45:18
that's not even relevant anymore, Melissa, like there must be like one of you. And I would,
45:23
again, be right justly angry. Like, this is always relevant when you are ending lives through abortion
45:29
and, you know, PS, there are far more of us than you could even begin to imagine. And so you go
45:35
through this process of, you know, meeting other people and that has brought me healing and brought
45:39
me more purpose. And then, you know, I knew that God was calling me to help them. And what I needed
45:46
to do is help people even in the pro-life movement in the churches to understand, man, most survivors
45:52
are not even a Melissa, right? Yes, I experienced a failed abortion that that spared my life, but
45:57
we have babies who survive abortion pill reversals. They're survivors. Babies survive, you know,
46:02
chemical abortions failing. We have, you know, people who survive stopped abortions. And so,
46:07
I think in order to change our culture, I knew that I needed to attempt to change the narrative
46:13
about who abortion survivors are instead of going, we exist, we exist, and they're going,
46:19
you don't exist. And I'm like, you don't even know what you're talking about. Okay, time to impart
46:24
wisdom, educate people, study, study the research, and start telling quality stories. And for me,
46:30
that's what the book is about is both educating the public and allowing survivors to have a voice,
46:35
because we need to have both of those things happen. You're absolutely right. And it's the
46:40
difference between saying 7 million Jews died in the Holocaust versus reading the story of Anne
46:45
Frank, right? That's very different because it's like, okay, this is an actual little girl who wrote
46:50
this who lived during this time. And so you're literally giving a face to this, this nameless
46:55
description, which is, you know, botched abortion survivors. So there are a lot of folks from the
47:00
book, but if you wouldn't mind, is there one story that maybe stands out to you that you could give
47:05
us just the high level overview of just so our audience can know? I think, I mean, all the stories
47:11
I love in different ways. First of all, men survive abortions too. There are men in this book,
47:15
I want, I want people to know that you don't see a lot of them. That's a whole other interview I
47:19
think you and I could have of like what happens to men when they don't support the predominant
47:23
cultural narrative about abortion. That's, that's a conversation. But you know, I think one of the
47:29
stories that is so impactful for me is, again, a pseudonym, mom's name is shared, but kiddo's name
47:36
is not. So we share the story of a woman named Rashida, who went in for a late term abortion. She
47:43
was going through really difficult circumstances. The man in her life was not supporting her. And so
47:50
she had other children. And in the face of not having support, she went in and had an abortion.
47:55
And through it, right, she knew God was talking to her, right? Of stop, don't do it, stop.
48:01
And she was so courageous and ultimately stopped this late term abortion once it started. And in
48:09
the face of that, right, the words from the abortionists were like, man, you don't want to do this. You
48:14
don't want to do this. You're going to live to regret it. And again, unsupported women and has to
48:20
be put on bed rest to try to save the baby after she started that abortion. And now she's raising
48:26
this kiddo who, yes, who has gone through some difficulties, but is loved. And we have stood
48:32
beside this family. So this survivor who's now about 12 knows her story. She doesn't have to have a
48:38
sister yell at her. At least my biological parents wanted me, right? We were able to change that
48:43
family dynamics. So there are outcomes. It doesn't mean there isn't pain for that kiddo who survived
48:48
and that mom. But what it means is they know they're not alone. And we can help support them
48:54
throughout this journey. Absolutely. And it's in those moments where you can't feel more alone
49:01
than when you feel like you're the only person that's experienced this. And again, in your
49:05
immaturity, you thought that you were the only person, right? Well, in your immaturity and your
49:09
ignorance, because this wasn't something that's just common knowledge, right? You think that you're
49:13
the only one going through this. But when you can lean on the support and the experiences of other
49:17
people that have gone through something similar to you, there's something deeply powerful in that,
49:21
which goes back to the whole connection between humanity and our ability to be able to uphold other
49:26
people. Now, I know one thing that you've done Melissa since you've been in this space for so long
49:31
is you have to deal with pro abortion arguments and objections quite often. And I built out and I
49:37
have an entire presentation where I go through the top 18 pro abortion objections and say,
49:41
here's how I would respond to them. And I'm a questioner. So when somebody questions me to get
49:46
me on my heels, I love questioning them back to get them on their heels, because I have the moral
49:50
position, they don't, I'm not gonna let them put me on my heels. But I just want to throw a few of
49:54
these out to use some of the more common ones to kind of get an idea of how you like to respond.
49:59
So the first one is the easiest one to put on a t-shirt and a bumper sticker. And it's my body,
50:04
my choice. How do you respond to that? Where was where was my choice with my body? You know,
50:12
again, right, such a faulty argument, the body being aborted is not the woman's body. It's a
50:18
child's body. And somebody like me, right, we're the epitome of that. Don't talk to me about women's
50:24
rights. If you don't want to talk to me about mine. Well, and certainly it's like the only body
50:29
left dead at the end of a quote unquote successful abortion is that of the baby, not the woman.
50:35
And so when they're like, it's my body, my choice, it's like, okay, well, if I stick my finger in your
50:40
nose, I'm inside your body. Do you have the rights to determine what happens to me? And people like,
50:46
no, that's ridiculous. I was like, yeah, now apply it to what I was just talking to you about.
50:50
Another one that's common is this one's my personal favorite is no uterus, no opinion.
50:54
I mean, do we even know anymore who does or doesn't have a uterus? Because that seems like
51:02
that's been like that's shifting sand. So I feel like that argument like get shot in its own foot,
51:08
right? I mean, she had ridiculousness. And you know, frankly, that whole argument when they say that,
51:14
there's an awful lot of us with uteruses that they say still don't have shouldn't have an
51:18
opinion. So whatever on that one. Well, yeah, that's that's the thing is you can easily point
51:23
out the worldview by saying, wait a minute, did you just assume my gender? Exactly. There are
51:29
hundreds of millions of women around the globe that agree with my point of view. Are they also
51:33
wrong by default? It's like, of course, you would never say that. Another common one.
51:37
Certain uteruses get to have opinions, I guess. I don't know. Yeah, the ones that have the
51:41
approved opinions from from our moral betters. Another common one is it's not a human. It's just
51:47
a clump of cells. I yeah, science, right science. We all know this, right? We don't. I mean, we it's
51:59
such a dead giveaway in everyday language, right? Even if you're reading like mainstream media,
52:04
people magazine is like, Oh, so it's so it's having a baby. They don't go, Hey, so it's so
52:08
it's having a clump of cells. The language is so inconsistent. We only use they only use that kind
52:14
of language when they are attempting to degrade the situation and and complicate it and make it
52:19
something very, you know, diffuse. So yeah, no, we know the truth, not get off. The only place in
52:25
the universe where DNA sprouts out of nowhere is when a one cell sperm cell meets a one cell
52:30
to exit cell and they make a one celled zygote. And in that moment, there's cell division taking
52:35
place, cell growth taking place. And if we found a one celled organism on Mars, it would be wall
52:41
to wall coverage with every newspaper on the planet about how we found life on Mars. And yet,
52:47
whenever it's developing inside the womb of a woman that doesn't want it, all of a sudden,
52:51
it's just a clump of cells. Right. I mean, it is this is we have to face this as a society, right?
52:57
That this is, this is eugenics, right? This is, this is the worst of the worst that we are still
53:04
facing. Why are we, why are we allowing those who are the weakest and most vulnerable to be killed?
53:13
I mean, I think whenever you whenever you look at scripture and you look at the pagan worshipers
53:19
of Baal and other of these types of gods, what would they always sacrifice to these gods? They
53:24
would sacrifice the tissue of babies, right? They would sacrifice the lives of children
53:28
to these babies. And so this is just a demon that's, you know, thousands of years old that is still
53:34
working and operating today. Now, the the biggest one that we get, and this is the one that a lot
53:40
of Republican politicians fall for, is the hard cases, which are rape and incest. And so you'll,
53:46
you'll hear these politicians say, I am against abortion for anything except for rape and incest.
53:51
As if that changes what's happening inside the woman. And before I get your feedback on that,
53:56
one thing that I love to do, because I have this on my phone, but I also do it when I'm presenting
54:00
live, I put up two ultrasounds on the screen. One is of my youngest son, Elijah, whenever he was
54:08
however many weeks of gestation. And then the others of a baby at the same weeks of gestation,
54:13
but a baby that was conceived in rape. And I tell the person in front of me or the crowd in front of
54:18
me, I'm like, point to my son, because my son was wanted, and we wanted him in this family,
54:23
we couldn't wait to meet him. And the other one was seen as basically a disease as a leech.
54:28
It's like, if you can't tell the difference, then I don't really need to explain my position. So,
54:32
right? What about rape and incest? How would you respond to that?
54:36
Yeah, I mean, I'm a strong proponent of that as well as like, so like, tell me which one of these
54:41
babies was conceived in rape. Nobody knows, right? And I mean, the simple answer is, no one's humanity
54:51
is defined by the circumstances under which they were conceived, right? I mean, my story, for example,
54:56
so like, if people are righteously upset or they look at me and they'll go, I mean, one of my
55:00
favorites is people will go, well, I'm not talking about like, abortion as it as it fits people like
55:07
you. And I'm like, which, so which people are you talking about then? Like, so the ones that are
55:12
successfully killed, is that who you're talking about? Oh, understood. You know, when they have to
55:17
face it, that's when they're like, Oh, I'm not talking about you. Well, tell me who you're talking
55:20
about then. But, you know, nobody's, nobody's circumstances define their worth and their dignity.
55:28
And I think where we get tripped up, right, as in the policy side of things, or even in the church,
55:34
is our hearts go out to the things that women go through, right? And we're like, man, rape is wrong,
55:39
right? Yes, it is. incest is wrong. But the child should not be condemned because of the acts of a
55:47
person who committed a terrible thing. And we have to learn how to talk about and serve in the midst
55:55
of trauma and pain to say, that is not okay. What happened to you? You have a dignity and value,
56:02
woman. And this child has dignity and value. And, you know, the one other little thing I will say
56:07
about this, because I'm talking about this for a while, one of my friends was raped and shares
56:13
her story. And she said something so powerful about it. She said, you know, I went through that
56:17
pregnancy not knowing if the child was my boyfriend's or my rapist. But what I did know is who his
56:25
mother is. Yeah, I mean, that's that's a huge key. And also the reality Melissa is that the child
56:33
should not get the death penalty for something the father did. So if my dad knocks off a liquor store
56:38
and kills the worker behind, you know, behind the counter, I don't go to prison for that. I don't get
56:44
punished for that. And nobody would be okay with that unless I was an accessory to that. But if I'm
56:49
completely oblivious, no one would think I should get that. But in these circumstances, it's like,
56:53
okay, but but also I feel like it's very paternalistic in that. Oh, this woman couldn't possibly live
56:59
the rest of her life. You know, and raise this child of a rapist. And yet when you talk to real
57:04
life mothers who have raised their rapist babies or babies who were conceived in rape that are
57:10
super thankful that they're alive today. It's one of those moments where it's a beautiful thing
57:15
that they were able to do because this baby is innocent of any crime. But we should punish the
57:20
person that did the crime. And I've been very vocal that I think rapists should be executed.
57:25
And I think they should be executed publicly. We don't execute rapists in America currently.
57:29
But that would be one thing that would perhaps deter that type of behavior. But we shouldn't be,
57:33
you know, focusing on those moments and to give it like its own category. The last one or go ahead,
57:39
please. We can realize right that in some states, like that rapist can attempt to have rights to
57:45
that child. I mean, we need to, we need to put our time and attention to ensuring that we support
57:52
these women and these children, right? Like, we've got to, we've got to get to it. Well,
57:57
we're certainly on the same page there because it's one of those things where if you hold someone
58:00
down and violently penetrate them, you are not fit for polite society anymore. I'm sorry. And,
58:05
you know, I think that your, your date with destiny should come sooner rather than later.
58:09
The last one I want to have to talk about is kind of an afterthought to a lot of people. But this
58:13
specifically applies to your life, which is, you know, the fetus, as they call it, has to be
58:18
aborted because there won't be any families that are willing to adopt it if we allow it to be born.
58:24
So obviously you're living proof that that's not true. Talk to me a little bit about that.
58:28
Oh, there's a lot to unpack here. You know, just today, one of my friends who is one of my staff
58:34
members is going to meet a baby that they might be adopting who was surrendered at a hospital.
58:41
And without going into detail, I can tell you this was a difficult set of circumstances for
58:47
this baby and this mom. And guess what? There's a family waiting for this baby and will love this
58:54
baby and it will transform their lives and that baby's life. So yeah, no, first of all,
58:58
there's more families waiting for a baby than there are babies available to be adopted because
59:02
we're affording them. And also, is there any other thing that happens in our society where we go?
59:09
Hey, yeah, no, like, death is the appropriate response here. No, let's address foster care
59:17
systems adoption, right? Let's make adoption more cost effective, right? All of these things,
59:24
let's improve social economic circumstances, life circumstances. Let's not say that death is the
59:31
solution to somebody's problems. I'm sick of it. Yeah, I'm sick of it as well because it's like,
59:36
okay, so it's better to be dead than to be adopted. It's better to be dead than to be poor. It's
59:40
better to be dead. Oh, well, we have to kill this baby because it's going to be sick when it comes
59:44
out. So it's like it's better to be dead than to be sick. And it's like, let's let these people have
59:48
the option to determine whether or not they should be dead or sick or dead or poor, those types of
59:53
things. Let's not pretend as if we can play this entire thing here. But as we wrap to a close here,
59:58
Melissa, I do want to talk about the abortion survivors network because that is what you have
1:00:02
launched. And so you've done a lot to encourage people that are, yeah, that kind of got wrapped
1:00:07
up in all this to give them a voice, but also to advocate for them. So talk to us about the
1:00:12
abortion survivors network. How could guys in our audience get involved if they'd like to ready to
1:00:16
go? Yeah, ready to go. If you are someone who survived an attempt to abort you, first of all,
1:00:21
we're here to serve you or support your family. Or if you know a woman who's gone through this,
1:00:26
maybe she's peering the child, raising them, maybe you're an adoptive family. Or you know,
1:00:30
an adoptive family, we have support groups for all these people impacted by attempted abortions.
1:00:36
We offer healing support. We serve survivors from every quarter of the globe. We offer trainings
1:00:42
in how to find your voice and use it and stay healthy in this crazy world that we live in.
1:00:46
We do lots of educational campaigns and things like that. And that's really where we need people
1:00:51
to enter in with us. I mean, first of all, we can't do this without prayer support, financial support.
1:00:57
Man, follow us on social media and fight with us for us in the comms box, right? I can't respond
1:01:05
to everything, right? I fight so many big battles, Kyle. And what I honestly need is sometimes people
1:01:09
to just come in and beat back some of the stupid comments when people are coming at me and saying,
1:01:15
you know, oh, how dare you use survivors to advance this agenda to restrict women's rights.
1:01:21
Man, I don't have time for that stuff, right? I need to fight the big battles. Come alongside
1:01:26
us, follow us on social media and fight in the comms box for us with some truth. Well, and guys,
1:01:30
all that will be in the show notes. So you can check that out. But we've covered a lot of ground
1:01:34
today. I really appreciate your time and attention. And I just I couldn't be more of a fan of yours
1:01:39
and what you're what you're doing. But for now, that's all for me. Is there anything else you want
1:01:42
to get off your chest? No, thank you so much. This has been this has been fun for me. All right,
1:01:47
Melissa Oden. Thank you for coming on Daunton life a man's podcast. Thank you. There you go,
1:01:52
guys. I hope you enjoyed my time with Melissa Oden. But before we let you go, we are going to do
1:01:56
a quick resilience boost at undaunted life. Our mission is equipping men to push back darkness
1:02:00
with content that forges spiritual, mental and physical resilience. So the links I've got for
1:02:04
you today, I've got a link to Melissa's website. I've got a link to her network, the abortion
1:02:08
survivors network, and two Amazon links where you can buy her books. Thank you guys so much
1:02:13
for listening to this episode. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe rate and leave
1:02:16
us a positive five star review. If you want to come speak alive at your event or on your podcast,
1:02:21
shoot me an email to info@undonton.life. That's I N F O at undonton.life. Follow us on Instagram
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and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else, including how to donate to
1:02:31
keep more content like this coming your way. Just go to www dot undaunted dot life. And also,
1:02:36
we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for our content. The music
1:02:40
on this podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self titled debut album on face down records.
1:02:46
The links are in the description. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Remember keep pushing back darkness,
1:02:51
keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.