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[MUSIC]
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This is Undaunted Life Man's podcast.
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I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
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Let's get into it.
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All right, guys, we've got a special guest on the podcast today.
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His name is Matt Dodge.
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So he is the CEO and co-founder of cigars.com.
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That's cigars with the nest of the beginning S-I-G-A-R-S.com.
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That is an online marketplace specializing in custom cigars.
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And he's also a former NFL and UFC athlete agent based out of Miami, Florida.
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So the cool thing about him is how we got connected.
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So Folds of Honor, which is an organization that helps pay for
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the schooling, the future schooling, the higher education of fallen first responders
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and military members families.
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They hooked me up with Matt because I was looking for some cigars for me.
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And Folds of Honor did some cigars with them.
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And then after a short conversation with them, it's like, wait,
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I think Undaunted Life should do a cigar.
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And I wanted to go to help fund anti-child trafficking organizations,
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ones that are really vetted and do a really good job.
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And so that ended up getting us in the door with the Tim Tebow Foundation.
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Again, shout out to Jobe Martin of the Church of 1122 for hooking us up with
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the Tim Tebow Foundation.
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And so we found them and their rescue team and the stuff that they're doing.
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And so we partnered on doing a cigar.
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So if you listened, you know, however long ago it was a few weeks ago or
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something like that, I announced that we had that partnership.
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A lot of you guys have gotten on board and ordered these cigars.
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We're so thankful to you guys because we kind of needed to prove the concept,
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like, Hey, would guys that even don't smoke cigars?
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Would they pay for a three pack or a box of cigars?
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You know, just because they know the money is going directly to preventing
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children from being, you know, put into trafficking, you know, rescuing them,
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sometimes in kinetic situations, rescuing them from that, but then also
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caring for them afterwards, you know, spiritually, mentally, physically,
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emotionally, like socially, just caring for these children and these adults that
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have been caught up in trafficking.
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And so you guys responding and buying these cigars is a big deal.
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Cause I know cigars aren't everybody's cup of tea.
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Like, you know, some, some of you have never had them.
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Some of you think they're even sinful, even though they're not like, it's
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just one of those things that's very awesome to see you guys show up and show
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out and buy the undaunted life cigars.
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So again, if you're interested in getting on board with that, we'll put it
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in the show notes, but it's undaunted dot life backslash cigars.
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And we partnered with cigars.
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We, we partnered with Matt Dodge to do this, but in this particular interview,
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the first 30, 35 minutes or so, we talk about how he became an NFL agent and
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some of the stories and behind the scenes stuff there.
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And then we talk about his time as a UFC agent and how that's different.
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You know, in the NFL, you have to have licenses and all these hoops.
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You got to jump through, but with the UFC that it's kind of like the wild, wild
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West, we talked about, you know, when they brought in, you saw it.
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We talked about whenever they made it to where you couldn't have sponsorships
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on your shorts because of the Reebok deal.
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We even talked about, you know, our different, um, you know, Mount Rushmore
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isn't who we would put on there.
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And I've kind of changed my Mount Rushmore a few times over the last few months,
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but I feel like I've got a solid MMA Mount Rushmore now.
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And he actually told me a story about some kind of dirty stuff, some fighters
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we're doing in terms of weight cutting.
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So you got to stick around for that story.
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And then we transitioned into talking about cigars.
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Why does he want to do custom cigars?
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It was actually UFC fighter that got him into that business.
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Why is that so lucrative?
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Why is that so interesting?
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What's their process?
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If you're a company or an individual or a nonprofit that's wanting to do cigars,
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how is it that you could do something like that with an organization like this that
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has that, you know, part for serving and for providing money to these, you know,
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charities and things like that.
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And they match the dollars that you're putting in to go to that charity and all
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those types of things.
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But then we talk about cigars in general, like, you know, if you've never
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had a cigar, like what should you consider whenever you're trying to do one,
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you know, trying to, you know, either make a cigar, smoke a cigar for the first
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time, what are mistakes that people make when they smoke cigars or, you know,
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when they're lighting it or cutting in or all those different things.
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And he even told me about some things.
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And I've been smoking cigars for a couple of decades.
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Like I didn't even know.
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I was like, Oh man, that's pretty awesome.
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I say a couple of decades.
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I would make that would mean I would have been, you know, smoking them when I was a teenager.
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I definitely was it, but I've been smoking them for a long time, maybe since
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college or whatever.
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But I really, really enjoyed my time with him.
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The dude's got a great heart for this business and also for taking care of people.
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You know, just to the people behind the curtain, the morning that our cigars
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launched on September the 7th, there was an issue on the back end of their store.
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And it wasn't their fault because they tested it the night before and blah, blah,
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but there was like a third party vendor that had some sort of a glitch and it was
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causing people to not be able to fulfill their orders.
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And it was kind of a crazy situation.
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And you know, it was kind of like, man, what's going on?
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And these people are really trying to get on there and they're trying to be
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a patient, this guy, Matt Dodge took time out of his life and out of his
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schedule to personally contact everyone that tried to put in an order and wasn't
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able to do it because of the glitch that wasn't his fault.
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This is the CEO of the company.
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Like he's got things that he needs to do, things that he can be doing with this
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time.
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And here he is contacting you guys, the supporters of undaunted life because he
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wanted to make sure to make this situation right so that you could get your
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product and so that we could support the Tim Tebow Foundation.
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That's what you need to know about Matt Dodge.
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So without further ado, let's get into it.
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Matt Dodge, welcome to undaunted life of man's podcast.
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Thank you, Kyle.
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It's good to be here.
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Well, hey, to give everyone a little peek behind the curtain, you and I have
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actually spoken a lot today because you and I are in business together selling
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some cigars, which we'll talk about a little bit later on today.
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We had a few snafus, so we've gotten a lot of each other this week.
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But I don't even want to talk about that.
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I think this is a new record for undaunted life of man's podcast.
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I've never had somebody with palm trees swaying in the background, in the breeze.
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And that's never happened before.
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Where are you shooting this today?
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Yeah.
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I am shooting this in Miami, Florida, which is where we hand rolled the cigars
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for undaunted life.
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Well, that is pretty exciting that you.
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Is this like your office?
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Is this like what you get to look at and look like every single day?
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Cause that's it.
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Please tell me no, cause that makes me feel bad.
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This is my office.
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Yes.
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Um, I'll tell you what will make you feel a little bit better.
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I look at a closet, you get to look at this and I look at a closet in front of me.
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So well, you know what?
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We can get you some Ikea furniture movie around, like kind of switch you around a
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little bit, but like I said, I definitely, we're going to spend a lot of time talking
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about the cigar game a little bit later.
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But it's very interesting about your story is, you know, a few years ago, you didn't
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really know that cigars was going to be a big part of what you're going to be doing
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for your career, because you were actively an agent for NFL players and for UFC fighters.
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And so I would say that most of us that follow sports, which there's a lot of guys
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in this audience that do, we're kind of tangentially aware of agents, right?
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You know about Scott Boris and, you know, about, you know, some of these random people
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that, you know, that they like the microphones and then they've got all the big clients
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and they get these, you know, nine figure deals for their people and they do all these
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other different things, but, or they've watched Jerry Maguire or, you know, that's
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like their extent of their knowledge of this.
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But to start from the beginning, why were you even attracted to that as kind of a
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career path and how does one, if there's a teenager listening to this and I know
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there's several of them and they want to go down this route and they think it's all
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just, you know, sexy stuff and Super Bowls, like what does it actually look like to work
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that kind of a job?
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Yeah, so for me, when I was a kid, I was always interested in sports, but in a
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different way, I mean, I enjoyed playing sports, but I wasn't like a premier athlete
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in any of the large major sports, right?
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So when I was a kid and people were outside playing or playing video games or things
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of that nature, I was playing the video games with the general manager.
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So I kind of liked to be behind the scenes, putting the pieces together, scouting,
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understanding like who that next talent was and being able to develop that and see
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that through.
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So I had this kind of just innate interest in, in development and growth in sports.
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And I cared much more about being behind the scenes than I did about being out
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in front, like the Jerry McBryers and Scott Borises, as you mentioned.
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So for me, I always knew I wanted to be close to sports.
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I just didn't know how it was going to happen.
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And I, you know, realized that I could put some of, you know, what I, what I've
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worked for and kind of go out and get some, some experience by, by doing some
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internships and that story is interesting because really the internships,
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they're not going to really hire you too much, especially if you don't have
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like a law degree and I was a kid at this time.
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I was in, I was in undergrad school and I had to get on the phone and call
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every single agent there was.
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So if there's anyone who's young who's listening right now, put yourself out
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there, make yourself known, but also come to the table with something.
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I had a lot of calls to these agents and they just hung up on me.
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And one time I just said, you know what?
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I'm going to take a different approach.
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I called the agency.
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I said I was an athlete, I said I was a quarterback at the University of
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Connecticut and I got on the phone with one of the agents and I immediately told
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him, Hey, that's not who I am, but I won an opportunity.
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Next day I was on a train to the Bronx and I started my internship the following
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day.
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Well, that's one thing that I tell people.
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So I've had a lot of people reach out to me for, you know, my show and they, you
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know, some people reach out to me because they want me to be their shortcut, which
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if when you're asking someone for, for help, that's kind of what you're asking
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them to do is a shortcut.
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And all the advice I give to people is like, Hey, present yourself, honestly, like
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tell me exactly kind of what it is you need and what you want.
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But at the same time, it's like, don't just like assume that I'm going to hand
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you my Rolodex and don't just assume I'm going to hand you the keys to everything
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that I've learned and all the lumps that I've taken so that your life's easier.
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But like you got to get creative to get in front of people, especially like for
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me, I'm trying to get interesting people on the show.
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And there are different ways of going about getting those people that are
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advantageous and that are more successful than just sending a DM and then praying
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and hoping that, you know, they actually get in there and respond.
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So it's one thing, Matt, to say, Hey, I'm going to be a sports agent.
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It's another thing to, you know, burn the ships as I were, say, this is my career.
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This is how I'm going to get, get stuff going.
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But like, how do you even get clients?
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Like how do you get people to kind of believe in you that you're going to do your
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thing? So I guess just, just pick up the story from where you left off.
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Yeah, it was that it's hard work and dedication and being creative.
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Um, there are so many people who are reaching out to these top level athletes
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that, um, if you don't have, um, you know, the funds to be able to attract them, um,
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you have to have something.
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So for me personally, the first client I ever had played football at the
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University of New Hampshire, as many of your listeners know that is not a division
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one powerhouse.
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Uh, you don't even think they actually have a football team, but, but they do.
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Um, I was fortunate enough to kind of kind of just stumble into some tape on
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this, uh, linebacker who, his name was Sean Ware.
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Um, and immediately when I watched that tape, I knew that he was special.
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I knew he was different.
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He had that first step quickness.
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Um, he was, he was small, but he was, but he was strong.
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Like there were things that I could understand why he was overlooked by
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division one schools, but in, in this position, like he has the ability to, if,
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if enough people can look at him and give him a chance, he could be, you know,
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just as good as anybody else that's out there.
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And, uh, spent a lot of time with him.
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Spent a lot of time with his family and signed him.
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And then we, uh, we got him in front of a pro day.
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He ran the fastest 40 of anyone who wasn't invited into the combine, uh, for
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his pro day ended up being a seventh round draft pick, uh, to the Carolina
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Panthers, and that was just the start, right?
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That just kind of, I utilized that.
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And then once you have a guy, you kind of can, can use that as a, as a launching
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off pad to then go out and find guys. So for me personally, it was to try to find
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that undiscovered talent to people that, you know, that the guys that were being
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overlooked for various reasons and, you know, work really hard with them and give
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them an opportunity.
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Okay.
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I want to circle back around to that, but you mentioned 40 times.
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Now for every megatron, you know, uh, Calvin Johnson, that there is in the draft.
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They go in there and just light up the 40 and do all these other different things.
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You know, what are the three cone drill and all this stuff?
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Every draft, there's that guy that runs a crazy fast 40.
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He puts up a crazy amount of reps on 225 bench and then we never hear from this
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person again, because they get to training camp or they get to whatever.
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Some of these guys get hurt, but a lot of them just suck at football.
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Like they're just really good at working out.
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And so like it's always driven me insane.
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Like, and I know that, you know, people don't just base their draft boards on what
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happened, you know, at the 40 R dash at, you know, in Indianapolis or something
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like that, but to me, it always just seems crazy when you see these people that
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got drafted because they ran a four, three, but it's like, well, they, they don't
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know any, they, they're not smart enough to memorize an NFL playbook or they, they
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just don't have what it takes, you know what I mean?
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Like kind of walk me through that.
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Cause I know that has to be frustrating on your end as well.
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Well, fortunately it worked in my favor in this, in this capacity, right?
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Um, because if not, he probably would have been overlooked, you know, a lot of
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times, especially from like a scouting standpoint or general manager, the
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people who make decisions for all 32 teams, a lot of them are old guard, right?
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You're starting to see a little bit more new guard now, but old guard where the
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statistics and the measurables and all of that mattered more than, you know, their
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ability to play the sport.
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Um, so for fortunately for us, I mean, that got him on the radar and then he, he
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impressed when he was at camp and gave him the chance.
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But yeah, I mean, look, those things, they matter to an extent, but, you know, that's
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why camp matters.
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That's why mini camp and training camp matters because you've got to get out
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there and get hit, right?
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You got to get put on the ground to figure out how you can, you know, compete
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with these other guys and really see if they've got that dog, especially on the
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defensive side, you really have to have that because these are guys, especially
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like, you know, and first year guys that are getting drafted, right?
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Many of them are 20 years old, 21 years old.
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They're playing guys who have been in the league for 10, 15 years, full grown men.
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Many of these are still kids, right?
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That I've never paid a bill or their mom and dad still pay their, you know, their,
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their phone bill or something like that, right?
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These, this is a, this is a wake up call for a lot of them.
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So, you know, fortunately for us, it got him noticed and he was able to get through.
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So on the NFL side, who was like your biggest get like a, of your career?
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And well, it'll be a two part question.
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So who was your biggest get in terms of names that all of us would recognize?
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And then is there an NFL player that you just, man, you just love this person.
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They were just so good to work with.
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Whether they, you know, had a big long career or not, but they were just, man,
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they were just a solid aces dude.
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I was able to work with Joe Horn for a little bit.
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Um, Joe Horn was wide receiver for the New Orleans Saints.
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I think Joe Horn got famous because of a lot of his antics.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, little, little, little extra stuff.
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What was unique about Joe Horn is Joe Horn came, uh, on my side, uh, after.
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So he had already been with an agent and everything and, um, wasn't happy with, uh,
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a lot of the off the field opportunities that he quite honestly wasn't getting.
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So he, you know, came, came over on, on our side and we were able to work with him.
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He was probably the most fun, um, but I was able to work with a long snapper, uh,
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who had close to a 16 year career.
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So he even went beyond, uh, the time that, that, that I was there and, and was
15:33
working in the NFL space, it's interesting because a lot of these specialty positions,
15:38
uh, in the NFL, if you're really good at them, teams will keep a hold of you for a
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very, very long time and pay you handsomely.
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Um, but I'll also say this, it's very important to get off the field opportunities.
15:51
Right.
15:52
Uh, anybody can, you know, put your statistics up against anybody else and say,
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okay, this person got paid X, this person was slightly better, pay him a little bit
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more, right? It doesn't require a whole lot of rocket science to be able to do that
16:05
part of the job.
16:06
Well, you have to be able to bring opportunities off the field from a marketing
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and endorsement and sponsorship standpoint.
16:12
Okay.
16:13
So at what point do you start getting into representing UFC fighters?
16:18
Right after.
16:19
So Sean Ware, who I would just mentioned, um, near and dear to my heart, um,
16:27
was approached by an agency after he, uh, had a phenomenal year.
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Um, and they paid him a large sum of money to leave me and go sign with that
16:41
agency.
16:42
That's what small agents are up against, right?
16:45
You work your butt off, you find a guy nobody even had on their radar.
16:49
You spend a lot of your money, a lot of your time to get them into a,
16:53
be a position to, to be successful. And then, you know, that, that type of thing
16:57
happens. When that happened, I really got an understanding, a true understanding
17:03
of how this game worked.
17:04
And it's because the NFL has been around a long time and a lot of the agents
17:10
there, we control that process so much.
17:13
So they wait for it.
17:14
They wait for guys to get built up and then they throw a money and they take them
17:18
and they sign up to bigger deals.
17:19
I couldn't match that at the time.
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I was a young kid, Sean was actually older than I was at the time I was representing
17:25
him. So I couldn't match that from there.
17:28
That was when the UFC just signed the deal with Fox and they were starting to do
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a lot of, it just became a lot more mainstream and I had always loved the UFC
17:38
industry and I've always loved the sport.
17:40
I've always loved watching it.
17:41
And I said, you know what?
17:42
This is an opportunity to go take what I learned here and move it in.
17:45
And I transitioned over and I actually worked for the, really one of the best
17:49
agencies at the time who represented Johnny Hendricks, who's an Oklahoma guy.
17:53
And that was right around the time when he was fighting George St.
17:57
Pierre for the title.
17:58
So I got into the best UFC agency right from the beginning and I got kind of thrown
18:04
right into the world's there.
18:05
But the experience I had with the NFL was really beneficial for that.
18:08
So you mentioned the Johnny Hendricks GSP fight for my money.
18:12
And we'll talk about this.
18:13
I think that GSP is the greatest fighter of all time.
18:16
I think he is the goat for a lot of reasons, but I still think he lost
18:19
the Johnny Hendricks that night.
18:20
I think Johnny Hendricks got screwed on that decision.
18:22
But, you know, then you saw it.
18:25
It comes in and then all of a sudden Johnny Hendricks can't make way anymore.
18:27
And yeah, you know, we don't necessarily have to talk about that.
18:29
But so you get into the UFC side.
18:33
How is that different from representing NFL players?
18:36
Or is it basically the same thing?
18:38
It's on it's wild, wild West number one.
18:40
You don't need to have any type of certification, right?
18:43
So anybody can be in there.
18:45
And I'm talking about any of the criminals, bad people, you know, your best friend
18:50
from high school, all the way to your dad or your uncle, right?
18:54
So there was just a lot of not great people in there.
18:59
And it was pretty easy to stand out.
19:01
I have to be honest, it was pretty easy.
19:02
If you if you ran things professionally, did things the right way, you know,
19:07
came up with creative ideas, you had a great opportunity to represent good fighters,
19:12
right?
19:13
Whereas the NFL wasn't like that.
19:14
I mean, you needed a lot of hoops to jump through before you even got an opportunity
19:18
there and the access to talent was also different and unique because you can now open
19:26
yourself up to international fighters.
19:28
The UFC was signing a ton of international guys, right?
19:31
From Brazil, Asia, you know, and whatnot.
19:34
And that was an untapped space too.
19:37
That was an opportunity for us to go to Canada and get a couple people and bring them in.
19:41
So it was it felt like the Wild Wild West and a lot of untapped.
19:46
We were kind of like gold mining in a sense, and it was just the first movers.
19:50
Whoever was able to kind of move in first show the value, do things the right way.
19:55
Really were able to stand out.
19:56
OK, so did you like the fact that it was Wild Wild West?
20:00
Because some people liked the craziness of that because of the potential of opportunities.
20:03
But then other people are like, no, I want something that's a little bit more predictable.
20:06
Where did you kind of land?
20:07
I loved the Wild Wild West at that at that point.
20:10
Because I did things the right way, right?
20:12
I mean, you could see that there were shady people in the space and there still are quite
20:18
quite a few in the space and you just avoided them as much as possible.
20:22
It's about building a lot of the athletes up.
20:25
So just like in the Sean Ware story, it's about finding some guys that, you know,
20:29
might be fighting on local regional circuits, giving them the right opportunities to get
20:33
noticed and then moving them into the big show.
20:36
So it was important to make sure that who you were, you know, having those
20:41
relationships with were protecting your athletes.
20:44
That was the most important thing about all of this is making sure that, like,
20:47
the matchups were good, they had insurance when they were fighting a lot of those things
20:51
because it is Wild Wild West, you got to be careful of a lot of that.
20:55
But I preferred it.
20:56
I thought there was a lot of really amazing opportunities that otherwise
21:01
wasn't presented to me with the NFL space.
21:03
OK, so you were there since you mentioned the GSP Johnny Hendricks fight.
21:07
In and around that time is when the UFC went from the Wild Wild West as it
21:12
pertained to sponsorships to in terms of inside the octagon.
21:16
They had the Reebok deal.
21:18
And so initially it was like one guy's wearing black trunks, the other guys
21:21
wearing white trunks and they expanded the colors.
21:23
But a lot of these guys, you know, before that, when you watch old UFC fights,
21:27
they're wearing board shorts that 15 different sponsors on it and one might be
21:31
monster and the other one might be, you know, bubblegump, you know, plumbing
21:34
company or something like that.
21:35
And then they also had the big banner that they would put down and all that.
21:38
And then that change and that that changed for a lot of people.
21:42
And there were a lot of fighters that just hated that, frankly, because they
21:45
couldn't really sell sponsorships since nobody was going to be able to see their
21:49
company logo when the person is fighting.
21:51
So talk to me a little bit about that.
21:53
Like what were some of the pivots that y'all had to make in business whenever,
21:56
you know, it was harder to sell these deals.
21:59
It killed a lot of a lot of these fighters, annual salaries, killed it.
22:04
It was the worst thing that ever happened to the fighters, for sure.
22:08
Johnny, in particular, was making a lot on a few of those sponsors that were there.
22:13
He was one that had the transition and then went rebark and then retired, right?
22:18
So it didn't affect him as much.
22:20
But for a lot of these new guys, especially with social media now, if you had a huge
22:25
following, you could get hundreds of thousands of dollars for sponsorship ads.
22:29
Now Reebok's a set, it's a set plan, right?
22:32
Depending on how many fights you are, you're in on the UFC, Reebok pays you.
22:36
It's like 10 year Reebok pays you based on how many fights you're in.
22:40
And it doesn't change for anybody.
22:42
Everybody's the same, right?
22:43
You come in at 15 and 0 into the UFC.
22:46
It's your first fight, or you come in at 4 and 0 in the UFC in your first fight.
22:49
Reebok's paying you both the same amount, right?
22:52
And that's why I think that's the same now with the venom deal.
22:55
Now that they're with venom, I think it's basically the same set of exactly right.
22:58
Yeah.
22:58
And there was a lot of lost opportunity, a lot of lost sponsorship for athletes.
23:02
So what you have to do now is you have to do it off, you know, behind scenes.
23:05
You have to do it on social media.
23:06
You have to try to get those types of deals.
23:08
What I will say is there are a lot of new partners now to the UFC where once it was
23:13
considered a little barbaric and that no one would watch it on a large mainstream
23:19
scale, now you have really, really large reputable companies that are getting involved.
23:23
So you're seeing the logos that are in the cage.
23:26
A lot of them have partnerships with the UFC where they can reach out to the
23:29
athletes that they like and they can do their own sponsorship deals with them.
23:33
So you are starting to see a little bit more of that, but I'll say right after the
23:37
transition, like right when it went to Reebok, it was really bad for the fighters.
23:40
It's starting to get a little bit better now.
23:41
OK, so around that same time period, you bring in USADA.
23:46
So this is, you know, United States anti-doping agency.
23:49
You know, this is around the time when Dana and the crew is trying to substantiate
23:54
the sport like it needs to look better, you know, not kind of chaotic with all
23:57
the sponsorships, but also we need to make sure these guys are clean because
24:01
you used to, you know, the, you know, the, the testing.
24:03
If you would even call it that it was an IQ test.
24:06
It's like, Hey, are you dumb?
24:07
Are you smart enough to not pass this stupid test?
24:09
And then they started doing doping, but then you saw particular fighters.
24:14
Maybe one of which has already been named that they just fell off a cliff
24:17
after USADA comes in, absolutely fall off a cliff.
24:20
Their bodies changed before our eyes.
24:23
I mean, you go from Uber Eam to kind of this chubby, you know, looking over
24:27
Eam type of thing.
24:27
And now he's back to being an Uber Eam.
24:29
And there's a few fighters that kind of fell off.
24:31
What was that like for you guys as well?
24:33
Because it was kind of the worst kept secret in all of MMA that most of these
24:38
guys were on the sauce.
24:39
Most of your favorite fighters that you just love were absolutely on the sauce.
24:43
And then you saw it came in and it didn't just get rid of that.
24:45
It made these guys just get a lot smarter at beating the test.
24:49
But even to this day, there are guys that are doped that are inside the UFC
24:53
competing into a guy like me who had to scrape and grind for everything that he's
24:58
ever accomplished athletically.
24:59
It, you know, hurts my feelings as it were.
25:01
But what was kind of the difference for you guys when you saw it comes in and kind
25:05
of changes some of the fighters that are fighting.
25:06
Yeah.
25:07
Um, I would say that, um, the fighters who were doing things like that.
25:13
Um, we're not knocking on our door saying, when's my next fight?
25:17
When's my next fight?
25:18
Um, they're trying to kind of clean, clean themselves a little bit, knowing
25:22
that that could happen at any time.
25:24
Um, testing is completely random though.
25:27
Um, even though you might be in the testing pool, right?
25:30
There's a possibility you don't get tested more than once a year, right?
25:33
So it truly is luck at the draw for a lot of those guys.
25:36
My job didn't change.
25:38
Um, I'll say fortunately enough, the people that I kind of represented in
25:41
recruited, there was a level of, um, human being that I kind of had, like
25:48
as my baseline, I'm not going to sign anybody who's lower than that baseline.
25:52
And fortunately, the majority of those people, almost all of those people, um,
25:56
never tested positive for anything like that, or never had a conversation
25:59
with me personally, um, about that.
26:01
Um, the one person who did who I represented turned out to be, um, actually
26:07
believe it or not, a, a tainted supplement, um, which I'll tell you
26:10
from a usada standpoint, that we, we fought long and hard and it found
26:14
out to be a tainted supplement.
26:16
It's still got a six month suspension because he still tested positive.
26:18
So they are not messing around.
26:20
But one thing I will say about the testing itself, where there's a
26:23
will, there's a way, um, testing, uh, the team, like you saw, uh, it's just
26:28
like the NCAA, they're understaffed.
26:30
There are years behind.
26:32
If you are really trying to cheat the system and you have the people
26:36
behind you, whoever sources to do it, uh, you're, you're, you're, you're
26:40
going to be able to do that for a little bit of time, but it comes with risk.
26:43
Uh, and because if you do get caught and you get caught multiple times and
26:47
there's particular supplements that you have career ending year plus bands,
26:52
you know, and even if it's not, even if you're not trying to cheat and it's
26:56
a tainted supplement of some sort, multiple offenses will put you in a
26:59
really, really tough spot.
27:00
Well, and obviously it affects your income, but it affects your legacy as well.
27:05
And that's the thing that a lot of people don't really consider.
27:07
So like when TJ Dilshaw went down to 125 to fight Henry Sohudo, not only did
27:11
he get knocked out, you know, cause he basically sucked all the water out of his
27:14
body, couldn't rehydrate his brain and he got real chinny all of a sudden.
27:17
You, he comes out that he used, uh, you know, the special type of thing that
27:21
helped with, I forgot, it was like increasing his red blood cell count and
27:25
all this kind of stuff.
27:25
And then it's like, dude, you're one of the best 135 pound fighters on the planet.
27:30
And then, you know, now you're tainted forever.
27:32
And guys like Cody Garbrank had just pointed you and be like, I knew you were
27:35
dope in the whole time.
27:36
You were, we were teammates and blah, blah, blah.
27:38
And now there's no plausible deniability anymore because it's like, yeah,
27:41
you kind of did.
27:42
And then like in baseball, which is my favorite sport, you got these guys
27:45
like Barry Bonds or Jose Canseco or Mark McGuire, Sammy Sosa, and everyone's
27:50
like trying to find the cutoff.
27:51
Like, Oh, when did Barry start doing this?
27:53
Was he a Hall of Famer before that point?
27:54
It's like, I'm sorry, you can't do that.
27:56
You have to take someone's entire career.
27:57
Kind of like when you get into the goat conversation and someone says, Oh,
28:00
well, Anderson Silva had the most dominant title run, right?
28:03
But he fought a whole lot more than that.
28:05
And he lost like every single fight for like seven years in a row or something
28:09
like that.
28:09
So it's like, you really can't do it that way.
28:11
Um, I do want to talk a little bit about, um, really how fighters are paid.
28:15
Because I have a buddy and I that we debate, you know, often, because he's more
28:19
so on the, you know, these poor fighters should get paid more.
28:22
And I'm like, Hey, no one's forcing them to sign these contracts.
28:25
Like if you want to be a UFC fighter and you're, you're saying no to all the
28:29
other organizations that may allow you to, you know, get other sponsorships or
28:34
provide you a better base pay or something like that.
28:36
But it does strike people's odd, Matt, that a fighter can train for four months,
28:41
get a fight and it's 10 and 10, right?
28:43
10 to show, 10 to win or five and five or something like that.
28:47
And you know, they don't really realize, Hey, they got to pay their coaches.
28:50
They get, they got to pay for their gym that they're at that.
28:52
They got to pay their mortgage.
28:53
They got child support.
28:54
They got, you know, whatever, paying for their family.
28:57
And so it's not nearly as lucrative for most of the guys, but for the upper
29:00
echelon guys, the people getting points on pay per view, like it's
29:04
generational wealth and money.
29:06
But then now you've got PFL, which is a thing, Bellator, which is maybe about
29:11
to get bought by PFL.
29:12
You've got one championship and there's a lot of other different options,
29:16
but it's like the champion of one championship isn't considered in the
29:19
same regard as the UFC champion.
29:21
The PFL champion is never going to be considered in the same regard as the UFC
29:25
champion.
29:25
So I know there's a lot in there.
29:27
I threw a lot out there at you, but I know you know this.
29:29
This is your game.
29:30
Talk to me a little bit about the money side because there's the
29:32
prestige of the UFC belt, but then there's also the paying your bills part of this, you know?
29:37
And that's what the UFC utilizes, right?
29:40
To remain an incredibly profitable business.
29:42
Right now they're publicly traded, right?
29:45
So now their books are open.
29:46
So now the scrutiny can really, really happen.
29:49
This is where you see that they're paying, you know, fighters 15 to 18% of total
29:53
revenue, right, when you have these other major sports that have revenue shares
29:57
of 50/50, right?
29:58
Like mandatory revenue shares of 50/50.
30:00
The problem is there's no union.
30:02
There's no union in the UFC.
30:04
There's no union across MMA.
30:05
Um, and quite honestly, the organizations are going to fight that tooth and nail
30:09
because they don't want to give 50% right of a multi-billion dollar industry as
30:15
long as they can control it.
30:16
What UFC has is the, the prestige, the UFC, as you just mentioned it.
30:20
Um, you want to be known as the best fighter in the world.
30:23
You want to tell your buddies you fight.
30:24
You want to fight for the UFC.
30:26
Your buddies don't really give a [inaudible] if you go fight for Bellator or PFL.
30:31
I would say the common fan does not know.
30:33
Unfortunately, those two organizations even exist.
30:36
Um, granted you could make a whole lot more money there, right?
30:40
Because that's not their competitive advantage.
30:43
They have to pay fighters to come over, but you're starting to see now, especially.
30:48
I'd say in the last 12 months, especially, you're starting to see these guys from
30:52
the UFC transition over to PFL or Bellator.
30:56
I'll specifically say PFL because I do think Bellator will probably be
30:59
acquired by PFL very soon.
31:00
But that are getting, um, that I'm moving over to PFL because of the security
31:07
and protection for their families and, you know, what they've worked their whole
31:11
lives for, they want to get paid.
31:12
And they're not just believing anymore on three fight losing streaks.
31:16
They're actually turning down contracts in the UFC and moving over
31:20
Shane Burris is a good, good example for PFL.
31:23
Even though he hasn't had the greatest PFL run, um, he was at the top.
31:27
He was pretty, pretty darn high up at the, at the UFC and probably ranked
31:31
top 10 fighter and, and moved over.
31:34
So the UFC utilizes that to their advantage and it's up to the PFL, the
31:39
one championships, the Bellator is to continue to make a splash, get more of
31:45
that market share so that the UFC is then forced to pay their guys a little
31:50
bit more, but as long as they have that competitive advantage, it's going to
31:53
stay the same.
31:53
Well, and for me, and this is what I, I constantly tell my buddy is I say, again,
31:57
they aren't being told that they have to sign this UFC contract with a gun to
32:01
their head.
32:01
They're choosing to do that because they want to do it.
32:04
I never understood, you know, we're, you know, getting into the NFL season.
32:08
Yeah, these guys that are holding out, it's like, man, you signed a contract.
32:11
I know that there are ways for you to get paid.
32:13
That's advantageous for you, but it's like you signed a deal and, you know,
32:18
I think about these baseball deals.
32:20
So specifically, um, you look at a deal.
32:23
Okay.
32:23
So what's a good example of this?
32:25
Um, oh, Steven Strasburg, okay.
32:27
So wins the World Series for the nationals.
32:30
I believe that was 2019 and he's the World Series MVP.
32:34
So this is a guy that kind of had an up and down career, number one overall pick,
32:37
but then he, he has the best performance he could possibly have and he delivers a
32:41
championship to Washington DC.
32:43
And then he signs this huge contract, nine figure contract.
32:47
And I think he proceeded to pitch five more games.
32:50
And just a few weeks ago, he announced his retirement.
32:53
Well, he's guaranteed every last dime of that contract.
32:57
So the Washington nationals are taking all of the risk when they get a fighter.
33:02
I feel like a lot of people want to see it from the athlete's perspective all the
33:07
time because they like the athlete and they forget, look, this is a business.
33:11
And if the nationals signed three of those contracts, it's going to be hard for
33:15
them to ever sign another player, you know, five years from now or beyond.
33:19
I feel like a lot of MMA fans get too caught up in the, I like this guy and
33:24
forget, Hey, this is a business and the UFC can pay their fighters, whatever the
33:29
hell they want to pay them because they're running their business, how they see fit.
33:32
And until the, the competition can actually formalize a better product.
33:37
It's just going to stay that way.
33:38
I mean, is that crazy to think of it that way?
33:40
That's exactly right.
33:41
Yeah.
33:42
And what's unique for those who don't know this with fighting is you get paid
33:46
to show and you get paid to win unless you're a champion, right?
33:49
And if you're a champion, usually it's just show money.
33:51
And that bumps up big time.
33:53
If you ever get an opportunity to fight championship level, you're making good
33:57
money, even if you're challenging.
33:59
So a lot of times, right?
34:00
You fight, if you're lucky, you fight four times a year.
34:02
Let's say you lose all four of those, right?
34:06
You're making half of what you should have made.
34:08
And actually, you're not even making that because you're not
34:10
bumping up as you go through to this.
34:11
So, you know, one thing is, you know, the guaranteed money, the guaranteed
34:15
contracts, you're seeing that more with all of these sports.
34:18
It's like you're getting paid for what you've done in the past, not getting paid
34:22
for what you're about to do, whereas the UFC kind of pays you for what you're
34:26
about to do, right?
34:27
Which I think is probably more in line, but with these major sports, the revenue
34:33
sharing and all of this and the contracts getting bigger and the more
34:36
value that the organizations have, the more value that the leagues have.
34:40
Because of the collective bargaining agreement that's built into it, they have
34:44
to spend that money, right?
34:46
It's not like they can not spend that money unless it's baseball, right?
34:49
You can, you know, not spend your money.
34:51
You pay for your team is whatever you want, right?
34:55
But in like NBA, right?
34:56
And like a lot of things you have to pay, you have to spend that money.
34:58
Right.
35:00
Yeah.
35:00
I think it's very interesting when you look at it that way, because I'm kind of same thing.
35:03
I don't have a whole lot of tolerance for people that complain about decisions
35:07
that they've made.
35:08
And so like, you know, here in Oklahoma, a lot of teachers were complaining
35:11
about how much they were being paid.
35:12
It's like, well, did you go to school to become a teacher?
35:14
Yes.
35:15
Yeah.
35:15
Did you choose to finish your degree?
35:17
Yes.
35:17
Did you choose to apply for jobs to be a teacher?
35:19
Yes.
35:19
Did you choose to take those jobs?
35:21
You choose to stay at those jobs?
35:22
It's like, what are you complaining about exactly?
35:24
Like, there's no surprise here.
35:26
Same thing with these fighters that are like, oh, I'm only making this much.
35:28
It's like, you signed the deal.
35:30
Like, if you don't want to be a fighter, retire.
35:32
And, you know, go be a UPS driver, go sell insurance, go do anything else.
35:36
So you're not guaranteed a certain life, you know, unless you go out there and get it.
35:40
A couple more things before we move off and talk about cigars.
35:42
Number one, I want some dirt.
35:44
Okay.
35:45
I want a story that no one's heard about on MMA fighting.com or on aerial
35:49
Hawaii show.
35:51
I want to know something that happened behind the scenes,
35:53
whether it's with one of your clients or something that you know about,
35:56
since you were kind of, you know, behind the scenes, seeing how things operate in the UFC.
36:00
Give me a good story.
36:01
Okay.
36:02
Like, for the guys that have been listening for a half hour, give them something good.
36:05
Come on, Matt.
36:05
There's a lot that happens behind the scenes.
36:09
What I'll say is this.
36:11
I won't say names or anything like that.
36:14
But that's fine.
36:16
What happens in weigh-ins is a little crazy.
36:20
Okay.
36:20
There's a lot of cheating that goes hot in weigh-ins.
36:26
Okay. They say, if anyone who knows kind of like real true MMA, they say that the fight
36:32
is the day before, right?
36:33
The fight is making weight.
36:35
When you're out there actually performing, that's different.
36:38
That's, look, that's a lot of times it's lucky to draw, right?
36:42
You could put your best foot forward, but if you get hit in the right spot,
36:46
it doesn't matter.
36:46
You're going down, right?
36:48
Or you make a mistake.
36:49
You're going to get choked out, right?
36:50
Those kinds of things happen.
36:52
It's sometimes there's some risky business that goes on behind the scenes with weigh-ins.
36:58
Either it's a little extra time, maybe it's a little,
37:03
you know, little games that are being played by other teams that happen to for the guys.
37:12
I'll say one thing in particular.
37:14
I'm not going to say names, here's one story, okay?
37:16
I knew a fighter who was able to get his opponent a room
37:24
that the bathwater would not get hot.
37:27
Stay becomes a problem when you're trying to take an Epsom salt bath.
37:31
So if you can't take a hot bath with five hours left and you know you're
37:35
about to drop all of that weight, right?
37:37
You have to scramble, try to get out to a gym, do whatever you need to do, right?
37:41
There are games like that that are being played regularly.
37:44
Because, if you miss weight, even by 0.1 pounds, right?
37:48
At least 20% of your purse goes to that opponent.
37:52
So if you plan that right, that could be quite a lot of money back into your purse.
37:58
That's handled.
37:59
So there are a lot of games, there are a lot of risky business that goes on
38:02
before the fight even starts.
38:03
All right, very last MMA question.
38:06
And then I promise we will transition to talking about cigars.
38:09
I want your Mount Rushmore of your top four fighters ever now.
38:14
I'm going to give you a few caveats and I'm going to tell you mine to give you
38:17
some time to think through this because I'm kind of putting you on the spot.
38:19
So this isn't necessarily who are the best four fighters ever.
38:23
You can create whatever categories and matrix of decision making to put people on there.
38:28
Here's mine.
38:29
Okay.
38:29
And my last one's a little bit interesting.
38:30
And I've done this on some other shows here recently.
38:32
So I've kind of figured it out.
38:33
Number one is George St. Pierre.
38:34
I think he is the greatest fighter of all time.
38:36
I think, you know, his two losses to Matt Hughes and Matt Sarah.
38:39
He erased those with dominant, dominant victories.
38:41
Super guy inside the octagon, outside the octagon, total package.
38:45
He's the goat.
38:46
Then if I have no moral code whatsoever, no moral compass, I'll take John Jones.
38:50
He beats up women.
38:51
He's a horrific person.
38:53
He hit a pregnant woman with a car and then took off running.
38:56
But if America, we're going to have a fight with Russia.
39:00
And instead of doing it, how we do.
39:01
Roars.
39:02
Now we did it like they did back in the Greek city state days.
39:05
And they're going to send one fighter and USA is going to send one fighter.
39:08
I say put John Jones on all the supplements, all the vitamins,
39:12
all the everything and send him.
39:14
And he's going to kill and behead whatever Goliath Russia has.
39:18
So there's the second one, John Jones.
39:20
The third one is the greatest star in the history of the sport.
39:24
That's Conor McGregor.
39:25
First double champ, his run to the belt from like 2013 to 2012,
39:29
knocking out Josay in 13 seconds.
39:31
I'm not sure we'll ever see something like that again.
39:34
The UFC is desperately wanting to make Israel.
39:36
Adisanya and Sugar Shondo, Mally, like Conor McGregor.
39:40
They're not even close.
39:40
They're not even on the same planetary orbit as Conor McGregor.
39:44
Biggest star in the history of the sport.
39:46
And here's the last one.
39:46
Hickson Gracie.
39:48
Now, most people might say, well, why not hoist Gracie?
39:51
He won the first couple of UFCs like he's the first guy.
39:55
It's because even at that time, Hickson was the dominant Gracie amongst all the Graysies.
40:01
They sent Hoist out there because he was smaller, diminutive.
40:05
You know, he was easier to control whereas Hickson was the family champion.
40:10
And so if Hickson were fighting in a modern MMA context,
40:14
more people would know his name and more people would kind of put him
40:17
in that upper echelon of the best of all time.
40:19
So there's my four.
40:21
I've got what was it?
40:22
GSP, John Jones, Conor McGregor, Hickson Gracie.
40:25
So I've given you your time.
40:26
Give it to us.
40:27
Let's go.
40:28
I love it.
40:28
I wish the Graysies were good now.
40:31
Right. The problem is the Graysies just there.
40:33
Everything that everyone they put forward, yep.
40:36
Everyone they put forward is just, it's pretty hard to watch.
40:39
Yeah, Chrome.
40:40
Chrome Gracie's last fight was one of the worst things I've ever seen in a fight ever.
40:45
Quite sad to even be out there and representing the UFC in that.
40:49
So here's what I'm going to do.
40:51
I won't use any of yours, okay?
40:53
But I will use, I'm going to say that I do think the goat is GSP as well.
40:59
So I want to say that, like, if I did have a round Mount Rushmore,
41:02
GSP 100% would be there because of the entire package.
41:05
He represented himself, the organization, his country, his fight style.
41:10
He was the most well-rounded fighter I think I've ever seen.
41:13
So he's kind of at the top of that.
41:16
So outside of that, I'm going to start older for a second, not old,
41:20
but older for a second.
41:22
And the reason he's on Mount Rushmore is because he was somebody who,
41:27
when I was kind of growing up, that I thought was the baddest man on earth.
41:32
And that's Chuck Liddell.
41:33
I think Chuck Liddell is you're all American, have a beer, have a steak.
41:39
Just, you know, if you're going to have someone next to you in a street fight,
41:43
I'll take Chuck Liddell, even over John Jones.
41:46
You know, I'll take Chuck Liddell, give me Chuck Liddell.
41:48
He might get knocked out and then get back up and do what he has to do.
41:52
So I'm going to take Chuck Liddell in that.
41:55
I'm going to do two kind of unique ones next.
41:58
I'm going to do a female because I think Amanda needs to be on this
42:02
because of what she's done for just the game in general.
42:07
I think she's the most dominant UFC female fighter of all time,
42:12
probably the most dominant female fighter of all time.
42:15
Because she knocked out anyone else who could be in the conversation.
42:18
Ron Arowzi, Holly Holm, Misha Tate, Cyborg.
42:22
She knocked them all out and she made it look easy.
42:24
And what I love about her story is early in her UFC career,
42:27
she had like a two or three fight losing streak.
42:30
And she had no cardio.
42:33
She looked defeated and she reinvented herself and became what she became now.
42:40
And I love the fact that she's a mom doing the things that she's doing.
42:45
Obviously, I think she retired a little bit early.
42:47
But if we're putting a Mount Rushmore up there,
42:49
I'm going to have a female fighter on there because I think it's an important part of the UFC.
42:53
And do I have one or two left?
42:56
How many do I have?
42:56
You got two left.
42:57
You've only given us G.S. or Chuck Liddell and Amanda Nunez.
43:00
So you got two more and you said he had one more non-conventional.
43:03
One more non-conventional because he's a little guy, Mighty Mouse.
43:06
I think Demetrius was changed the game in the little guy space, right?
43:13
The flyweight.
43:13
It was a weight class that the UFC wasn't sure if they were going to keep.
43:17
And he was one of the most dominant champions across the board.
43:20
I think he was pound for pound number one for quite some time.
43:23
Even when John Jones was there, I think he was battling that first spot.
43:27
I think the flying arm bar with Ray Borg was probably one of the most unique things
43:34
that you could see in a championship fight to be able to do something that quickly
43:39
and that technically sound.
43:40
And then also transition over to having a career outside of UFC, I thought was unique.
43:46
So let's throw him on.
43:47
And then lastly, because you had Connor, I'm going to put Habib on there.
43:52
I think that for undefeated, the way he would beat every single person
43:59
that he fought in pretty dominant fashion was great.
44:03
I will say that one of the only people that really gave him quite a fight
44:08
was a guy who's near and dear to my heart in cigars.com,
44:11
which was our first ever cigar partnership.
44:14
And that was Ally Quinta.
44:16
So that's a great transition that I'm going to mess up because I'm a Habib Hader.
44:22
And this is why, because when you're talking about the goat,
44:24
I get the undefeated in the dominance.
44:26
And oh, he, you know, he took Edson Barbosa's soul and all these different things.
44:30
When you take everything into account, you also have to take into account who the people fought.
44:35
So what is he, 29 and 0, 30 and 0?
44:37
His first 20 fights were against Russian tomato cans.
44:40
Several of them he was related to.
44:42
Okay.
44:42
So it's like, yes, he beat the brakes off Connor.
44:45
He beat the brakes off Dustin Poirier, even though he kind of had a guillotine there for a second.
44:49
Beat the brakes off of Justin Gaechee, but it's like, okay, that's a very, very short run.
44:54
I'll be a dominant, but very, very short run.
44:57
So again, I'm a Habib Hader, but yes, the Ally Quinta fight,
45:00
especially considering the circumstances of that fight, you know, being, you know,
45:04
a short notice thing.
45:05
He's supposed to fight Tony Ferguson.
45:07
And then I think that was like Max Holloway was brought in,
45:09
but then they stopped his weight cut.
45:10
And then here's Ally Aquina.
45:12
I think the fight was actually in New York.
45:14
I may have been in Brooklyn or whatever, but that is interesting.
45:17
So let's talk about Ally Aquina, had a great career.
45:19
He was always kind of a little bit of a meme because he's like, yeah, you know,
45:22
I sell houses first and then I also beat people up with the octagon.
45:25
And that was kind of his thing.
45:27
But how did Ally Aquina get you away from, you know, the representing UFC fighters game
45:34
and into the cigar game?
45:35
And that truly was it.
45:36
I ended my UFC career there, my UFC career, my managing of UFC career.
45:41
Right.
45:42
And managing of athletes and transitioned over to that funny situation.
45:48
I, many, many years ago, I had a business where I owned a lot of dot com domains
45:55
for professional athletes.
45:56
And I would sell them to the professional athlete and make a profit on it.
46:01
Allyquinta.com was one of them.
46:04
I'll read out in one capacity saying, hey, I think you own the domain.
46:09
I've got a real estate business, right?
46:11
I'd love to get it, et cetera.
46:12
All of that.
46:13
I said, nope, nope, nope, no problem.
46:15
Now I'll just give it to you, right?
46:17
But by the way, like, you know, you ever thought about maybe doing kind of a custom cigar?
46:23
Because at this time, I said, you know what, I'm going to, everything that I've learned
46:26
in this space, I'm going to make custom cigars for athletes.
46:29
I'm going to do something super, super cool and unique.
46:32
And it just so happens at that time, that's when it worked out.
46:34
So we created the Allyquinta sold collection, which was Al laying on a beach,
46:40
smoking a cigar with a sold sign that he was able to, you know, give to, you know,
46:46
all of his closing gifts and do that.
46:48
Believe it or not, it was also his last fight when he fought.
46:50
It was a tough one, but it was the fight when he fought.
46:52
Name's escaping me, just, name's escaping me, but he just fought.
46:57
He just fought again.
47:00
I need to escape in me too.
47:01
So you'll see if I'm really, really quickly green, Bobby Green.
47:05
He fought Bobby Green.
47:06
Bobby Green, yeah.
47:07
Yep. And that was a tough one, but we released it right before that.
47:12
Got great interest.
47:13
And that's really what put cigars.com on the map.
47:15
That was the release cigar.
47:16
And then from that, we had some other really great athlete transitions.
47:20
Okay. So cigars.com, that is cigars with an S.
47:24
Guys, if you've been listening to my show for any length of time,
47:26
you heard whenever I announced that we did a cigar with you.
47:28
Oh, a cigar with you guys.
47:29
We'll talk more about that.
47:30
So, you know, how did you start?
47:32
You know, what made you think of the name cigars with an S?
47:35
Like, you know, when you burned the ships and went full cigar,
47:39
like, tell me, you know, how you did that?
47:40
What was that story like?
47:41
Cigars were always a part of my life.
47:43
I think I smoked my first cigar at maybe 10 years old with my dad.
47:47
It was always something that we did as kind of a father-son thing.
47:52
And I'd smoked them all throughout after the athlete career.
47:56
I mean, it was a long, exhausting career.
47:58
I wanted to do something that I, you know,
48:00
actually truly, truly loved.
48:02
And I'm also a tech entrepreneur, too, on the side.
48:05
So, I was kind of looking for an industry that was right for disruption.
48:08
And if you think about the cigar industry,
48:11
it's probably the most antiquated old school, old guard there is.
48:16
And I said, "You know what?
48:18
I think I can bring kind of this fresh new energy to the cigar space.
48:23
But I don't want to compete with the Fuentes.
48:25
I don't want to compete with the Davidovs.
48:27
I don't want to compete with, you know, any of the known brands.
48:31
I want to create my own segment.
48:33
I want to just do custom cigars.
48:36
And I said, "Why not start with athletes?"
48:38
Right? Because that's what I know.
48:39
That's what I love.
48:41
And immediately, we can have some good traction there.
48:43
So, started with Al, then transitioned over to PGA golfers,
48:47
NASCAR drivers.
48:48
And then from there, got into the charity aspect and folds of honor,
48:52
which is how you and I connected to even start this.
48:56
And, you know, it's been a blast ever since,
48:59
because what we're doing is really redefining the cigar space.
49:03
If you're a brand, if you're a company, you know, whatever it might be.
49:06
And you want to be able to put your stamp on a cigar and have that out.
49:11
We have the capability for you to be able to do that.
49:13
And we don't sacrifice quality.
49:15
Okay. So, let's talk about y'all's process.
49:18
So, from suit to nuts, because, you know, I talked about it a little bit in the intro,
49:22
but, you know, you and I get connected through folds of honor,
49:25
a charity that we love and we support.
49:27
We support folds of honor, Oklahoma.
49:29
You know, they helped out with some stuff after my cousin was killed,
49:32
a police officer in the line of duty.
49:34
I mean, and how you and I got connected,
49:35
I don't know, even though if you remember this,
49:37
I was getting connected to you because I ran out of folds of honor cigars in my humidor.
49:42
And my contact at folds of honor was like,
49:44
"Hey, just get ahold of a mat."
49:45
And then as the conversation went forward, it's like,
49:48
there might be a connection here for the charitable stuff that Undaunted Life wants to do.
49:52
And I never even thought making a custom cigar was a thing.
49:55
But I got to say, I was blown away at the finished product,
49:58
because like, I don't know a whole lot about cigars.
50:00
I just know that I like them, especially when I'm having them with whiskey.
50:03
But the quality of the cigar was astonishing and apparent,
50:06
even to people that are cigar aficionados or like,
50:08
there's something different here.
50:10
But when you expect to get a custom thing,
50:12
it's kind of like if you go, "Hey, you're going to get wallets with,
50:14
you know, all your groomsmen's, you know, initials emblazoned in on it,
50:19
all those wallets are going to be cheapy wallets.
50:21
They're going to be crappy wallets, you know, made by these companies,
50:23
just because the whole point is, you know,
50:25
stamping the leather or whatever.
50:27
But when someone reaches out to you,
50:29
let's take them through the process.
50:31
What does that look like?
50:32
How do you get a cigar going?
50:33
Who, how do you know how to make them like,
50:35
because people think if it's not Cuban, it's not good.
50:37
If it's not Dominican, it's not good.
50:39
And anyway, take me through it.
50:41
We take it and it's very limited.
50:43
It's a very, very low lift for someone who wants that.
50:47
Okay.
50:47
And that's from two years plus of investing in process and investing in raw material
50:56
and investing in manufacturing from the cigar itself,
51:00
all the way to the label and the finished product in the box.
51:03
Right.
51:03
So all of that is handled.
51:05
We do it all in house and it's all done in the United States,
51:10
which is really, really important to us.
51:12
It also adds more cost to it.
51:13
But it's important to us because we want to control that process.
51:16
But we also want to make sure that things can stay here in the US,
51:21
you know, as much as we possibly can control that.
51:23
It matters to us and it will continue to matter to us.
51:27
So to your question, you say, "Hey, Matt, I'm Undaunted Life, right?
51:32
I want to do a badass cigar.
51:34
What do I need to do to you, right?
51:35
What do I need to send to you?"
51:36
We have a conversation.
51:38
You let us know what kind of what shape you like, right?
51:40
For the Undaunted Life one, we did a Toro.
51:42
Let us know what kind of blend you want to do.
51:44
We've got a couple of different proprietary blends ranging from mild,
51:48
which are really easy to smoke all the way to full, full body,
51:50
which would knock you on your ass.
51:52
We ended up going with kind of a mild plus for this particular one.
51:57
And then any special things on the label, right?
52:01
Went back and forth with our design team, I think, for a week or so there
52:06
on making sure that the label represented exactly what it was
52:10
that you wanted to present to those who are going to be purchasing this cigar.
52:14
Colors, embossment, messaging.
52:18
And then the last piece of this is we try to always tie back
52:21
all of this and some of the profits to a charitable organization.
52:25
It started with Folds of Honor.
52:26
We do it with almost every one of our cigars.
52:28
And now we're doing this with your cigar and the Tim Tebow Rescue Team Foundation.
52:32
So the process from end to end, a little bit of communication on our side.
52:37
We take care of all the manufacturing and then ship it out.
52:40
Which it was fantastic on our end because we were trying to figure out
52:43
ways to fund anti-human trafficking operations.
52:48
And I've vetted a few organizations and I've landed on the Tim Tebow Foundation.
52:52
Excuse me. So thank you to Joby Martin, pastor of Church 1122 for introducing me to that team.
52:58
Because this is a team that is using every dime of what is donated specifically
53:02
to preventing trafficking from happening, to rescuing people that are stuck in
53:07
trafficking, including children, and also survivor care.
53:10
So after these people are rescued in sometimes kinetic operations,
53:14
it's not just, all right, you're rescued. Good to go.
53:16
There's a lot of care that needs to happen around those people.
53:18
There's spiritual health that needs to be taken care of.
53:21
Physically health, their health and their emotional health,
53:23
all that type of stuff is something that they take care of.
53:26
And we were so happy that you guys were willing to match what we were going to take
53:30
from our end of the profit to make sure that they go and do that.
53:33
And we've already had conversations behind closed doors for future offerings,
53:37
where that donation could even be bigger.
53:39
So I love that servant heart that you guys have for these types of things.
53:44
But let's talk a little bit about cigars in general.
53:46
So I know quite a bit about whiskey. I'm a single malt scotch guy.
53:49
I love isles. Those are my favorite art bag, log of wool and bow,
53:51
more of those types of things. And I know why.
53:54
I know enough about whiskey that I know why I like a particular whiskey
53:58
over another whiskey or something like that.
54:01
But typically with cigars, I have no idea.
54:03
I know about light, medium, bold.
54:06
I typically like more of a full-bodied kind of bold cigar,
54:09
because if I'm having a log of wool in 16,
54:11
I don't want a wimpy cigar that's going to basically disappear in my mouth,
54:15
have no taste to it, no finish.
54:17
But talk to me about how a cigar novice could determine,
54:22
"Okay, this is something that I like."
54:24
Or maybe I should try a robusto as opposed to a toro.
54:29
How do you even start to make those decisions
54:30
without going to the cigar shop and spending a thousand bucks and just trying them all?
54:35
I don't think so for a novice smoker,
54:38
I don't think you should put pressure on yourself to really try to understand
54:43
a lot of the complexity of a cigar.
54:44
So for me, a cigar is valuable because it's an investment of your time,
54:48
whether it's a [inaudible] cigar or a phenomenal cigar.
54:51
Right? It's an investment in your time.
54:54
So a lot of times it's about how it makes you feel,
54:57
what you get to think about when you're smoking it,
55:01
who you're talking to, the time that you're spending with that cigar.
55:05
Now, with that being said, there's a couple of things to look for on a cigar.
55:09
Right? You don't want it to be too squishy, right?
55:14
But you also don't want it to be too dry.
55:15
You want there to be some type of middle ground on something like that.
55:19
Smell matters, okay?
55:21
If you're going to have taste, you know this with whiskey,
55:24
like you want to have an aroma, a particular aroma that's appetizing to your palate
55:29
when you're smoking, right?
55:30
So it's really important to kind of smell that cigar
55:33
and make sure it's something that you like.
55:35
And then it all comes down to preference, right?
55:39
Size matters because it's about how much time you have to spend, right?
55:43
We talked to your friend Duane about this.
55:45
It's like if you've got three hours or two hours and you want to just zonk out,
55:50
get a longer body or a larger ring gauge, right?
55:53
Ring gauge is the size, the diameter of it, right?
55:56
The body, the length of it all determines on that too.
56:00
It goes all the way from the smallest type of one, which is like a perla
56:03
or something like a cigarillo, all the way up to a grandioso
56:08
or a salomon or something like that.
56:11
So if I would say if it's somebody who's a novice,
56:15
the most common cigar to smoke would be a robusto and then a toro, right?
56:20
Those are your two kind of smaller to mid-size cigars.
56:23
There's the best ones to start with.
56:25
And then generally speaking, if you go to a humidor, right?
56:29
Just ask about like a mild or mild plus body.
56:32
Those are generally the best ones to start with.
56:34
But also get in there and kind of make your own determination,
56:37
smell them, feel them, touch them, do those types of things.
56:40
And if you don't like a cigar, don't smoke it all the way through.
56:43
Right. Oh, we're seeing that's another thing.
56:45
Like I'm so scott's Irish that when I start something by God,
56:49
I'm going to finish it.
56:50
So if it's an awful movie, if it's a terrible book,
56:53
even if it's a bad cigar or drink, I have to clean my plate.
56:57
I have to clear the glass, all that type of stuff.
56:59
So one thing that I do, excuse me,
57:03
excuse me, guys, I'm still recovering.
57:05
The voice is getting better, but you know, it's not always perfect.
57:08
One thing that I can say when I opened the cigars box,
57:11
the undaunted life cigars that you did, which, you know,
57:13
surprising me with the our logo kind of burned into the top of the box,
57:17
I was incredible.
57:18
But as soon as I opened the box, the smell was overwhelming.
57:21
And I mean that in a positive way,
57:23
because I've opened other boxes of cigars before,
57:25
and it's just, it smells like cigars, but it's not like
57:29
it didn't kind of overwhelm and kind of fill the space.
57:32
And that's the same thing when I used to do whiskey tastings before the pandemic,
57:35
is it's like there are certain whiskeys that you drink.
57:37
As soon as you swallow them, they just disappear.
57:39
And when you're drinking a whiskey, there's nose,
57:41
palate, and finish.
57:42
And you need all three to have a good, fantastic whiskey.
57:45
And so if you drop an ice cube in it, you take the nose away.
57:48
And if it's not a good whiskey, there's no, there's no finish to it.
57:51
So it's those whiskeys that linger on your nose,
57:54
linger on your tongue and linger on your palate and slowly spread.
57:57
It makes a difference.
57:58
I guess it seems like the same thing is true for cigars.
58:01
And that's why they pair so well.
58:03
The one thing that you might do before we wrap up today,
58:05
I want to kind of know what are some common mistakes
58:08
that novices or even people that think they're advanced cigar smokers make.
58:13
I mean, for years, I didn't toast my cigars.
58:15
And so toasting is where you basically take the torch
58:18
and you kind of lightly toast the outside or the end of it
58:22
before you ever take a puff and how it was explained to me is
58:24
if you just put the flame right to it and you suck the fire through,
58:29
you're actually cinging the tobacco leaves that are in the middle there
58:32
because they haven't kind of been prepped for the process of what you're doing.
58:36
So that's something that I learned.
58:37
But when it comes to cutting or smoking or preparing or anything that was cigars,
58:41
what are some common mistakes that you've seen?
58:43
To add to what you would just mentioned, I personally like to light my cigars
58:47
with long match boxes and long matches because sometimes the butane itself
58:53
on a torch lighter actually can change the complexity and the taste of the cigar itself.
58:58
Especially if it's not a great cigar, it'll absolutely 100%.
59:01
It'll feel like you're just like a burnt marshmallow in a sense, right?
59:06
The entire time, which is really not appetizing and you can't fix that.
59:11
If it happens, there goes your cigar.
59:13
Okay, so I would say if you have the possibility of doing a long match, do that.
59:18
That's probably your safest bet because you can have that right up to it.
59:21
Secondly, I would say from a cutting standpoint, sometimes novices cut too deep, right?
59:27
If you cut too deep off the cap, then the cigar will unravel.
59:31
You'll taste it in your mouth and it won't be an appetizing experience for you.
59:34
So you definitely don't want to do that.
59:36
There are multiple ways to cut.
59:38
The cigar that we did for Undaunted Life is a Toro.
59:41
I personally love to v-cut that particular cigar.
59:45
I think you get control over the smoke.
59:49
It lasts a little bit longer.
59:51
It's a little bit better on the palate.
59:53
But that doesn't mean you can't cut it, guillotine straight or punch cut it.
59:57
That Toro is a great size and the way that it's built with the binder and wrapper and all of that,
1:00:03
it's going to be just fine on however you want to do it.
1:00:06
Just don't cut too much.
1:00:07
Again, because if you cut too much, you can't turn that back around.
1:00:11
And then lastly, what I would say is, I think it's really, really important
1:00:19
from a cigar standpoint to do your best.
1:00:23
If you're an advanced starting to become from novice to the next level,
1:00:27
do your best to try to pair cigars with things.
1:00:31
Because it would change the complexity and the taste, the overall profile of something,
1:00:36
if you have it with a coffee or if you have it with a beer or a whiskey or a scotch.
1:00:41
But in addition to that, to try to start retrohailing.
1:00:45
Retrohailing is the only way that you actually get flavor on a cigar.
1:00:50
So you see sometimes these flavor profiles of vanilla,
1:00:53
hickory, cedar.
1:00:55
You're never going to get that flavor profile if you don't know how to retrohail.
1:00:59
And retrohailing is difficult.
1:01:00
It's breathing out of your nose.
1:01:03
It's very difficult, but it's something that once you master and you try,
1:01:06
it changes a cigar for you completely.
1:01:10
So as you progress into that from novice into intermediate and even advanced,
1:01:14
those are really important things to try to do.
1:01:16
So can we set up a training time for you to teach me how to retrohail?
1:01:21
Because I've never even heard of such a thing.
1:01:23
So can we hook that up?
1:01:24
We should do Zoom meetings where we smoke a couple of cigars and talk about this.
1:01:31
And talk about some SEO.
1:01:33
Hey, we've got some some meetings coming up.
1:01:35
So maybe we can make them, make them cigar meetings.
1:01:38
But man, I really appreciate all the time that you've spent kind of explaining these
1:01:41
things to us, kind of giving us some different preferences and all that.
1:01:44
I'm a Vika guy as well, like that.
1:01:46
But even me, like what's funny is I'll follow my own sword for the photo shoot
1:01:49
that we did for the Undaunted Life Cigars.
1:01:51
I was too focused on my wife.
1:01:54
She was taking the pictures because she's a professional product photographer.
1:01:57
And here I am trying to focus on doing the whole process slowly.
1:02:00
And then I cut off so much of the end of my cigar.
1:02:04
And so any of the pictures that you see of the cigar itself,
1:02:06
it's the one that the Wayne cut because he cut it like a pro.
1:02:09
And I'm over here cutting it like I was cutting it with a meat cleaver.
1:02:12
So yeah, we all make mistakes.
1:02:13
It happens.
1:02:14
But man, we've covered a lot of ground in this.
1:02:16
Thanks for letting me go behind the scenes on all your stuff that you did in
1:02:19
the world of sports and the world of cigars.
1:02:21
But that's all for me.
1:02:22
Is there anything else you want to get off your chest?
1:02:24
That's it Kyle.
1:02:25
Appreciate all you do.
1:02:26
And it's a great cause that you, you know, push the cigar towards.
1:02:30
I'm excited to be a part of it.
1:02:32
Matt Dodge.
1:02:34
Thank you for coming on Undaunted Life, a mass podcast.
1:02:36
There you go, guys.
1:02:38
I hope you enjoyed our time with Matt Dodge.
1:02:40
But before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost.
1:02:42
Add Undaunted Life, our mission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that
1:02:46
forges spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
1:02:48
I've got two links for you today.
1:02:49
I've got a link specifically to the cigars website where you can check out the Undaunted Life Cigar.
1:02:54
And then also our landing page from our website.
1:02:56
Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode.
1:02:58
Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five-star
1:03:02
review.
1:03:02
If you want to come speak alive at your event or on your podcast,
1:03:05
just shoot me an email to info@undaunted.life.
1:03:08
That's i-n-f-o @undaunted.life.
1:03:10
Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else,
1:03:14
including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way.
1:03:17
Just go to www.undaunted.life.
1:03:20
And also we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for our content.
1:03:24
The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua,
1:03:27
which is off their self-titled debut album on FaceDown Records.
1:03:30
The links are in the description.
1:03:31
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
1:03:33
Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual,
1:03:37
mental and physical resilience, keep seeking the lion of Judah.
1:03:50
[Music]