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[MUSIC]
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This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
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I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
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Let's get into it.
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Hi guys, today I've got a special guest on the podcast.
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His name is Mark Appel.
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So Mark Appel is a pro baseball player.
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He was actually drafted three different times, which is crazy because the draft rules in baseball,
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you can be drafted out of high school.
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But if you decide to go to college or forgo that drafts choice, you know, you basically
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have to wait three years before you can be drafted again.
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So he was drafted out of high school by the Detroit Tigers in the 15th round with the
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450th overall pick back in 2009.
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Then he decided instead to go pitch at Stanford University where he had a scholarship offer,
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so a great opportunity for him to do that, he was drafted again after his junior year.
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So this time in the first round and not just in the first round in the top 10, he was drafted
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number eight overall by the Pittsburgh Pirates.
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That was actually the year that I met him, but then he decided to go back and pitch a senior
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year at Stanford kind of rolled the dice.
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But then after a senior year at Stanford, he was drafted number one overall by his hometown
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team, the Houston Astros in 2013.
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I mean, just a crazy storybook ending for just getting up to that point.
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Just a crazy awesome thing.
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But this guy faced incredible expectations, right?
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Because if you're the number one overall draft pick, we're talking about names like
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Chipper Jones and Alex Rodriguez and Bryce Harper and Ken Griffey, Jr. like all these
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amazing players, right?
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You're now on that short list.
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There are only dozens of guys in baseball history that have been selected number one
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overall.
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The expectations were incredibly, incredibly high.
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And unfortunately for Mark, he never lived up to him, okay?
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He had a lot of struggles in the minor leagues.
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We're going to get into that a lot in this particular episode.
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Back in 2018 at the age of 26, he actually decided to step away from baseball.
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It was kind of a pseudo retirement, but then in a shocking move, he popped back up on mine
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and everybody else's radar in 2021 before the season because he was making a comeback,
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right?
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He goes from literally being a bust, being an absolute bust, number one draft pick bust
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to now he's trying to make a comeback in pitching the major leagues.
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So here's the thing about this particular conversation.
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Some of you are thinking to yourselves, well, I don't like baseball.
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This isn't going to be a valuable conversation.
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This guy has some perspective that I think is important to anybody of any ilk that is
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into any type of sport whatsoever.
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There's some great nuggets here about how we should look at our jobs and how we should
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look at them in relationship to our, basically our standing with God and our value overall
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as a person.
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But I will say, if you do like baseball, this is a tremendous episode because we're talking
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to a guy who's made a career of it, right, who's had some struggles and we talked through
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those struggles, but we have some other things that we talk about.
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We talk about some of his favorite players ever.
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What he thinks about some of the new things happening in baseball, trying to speed the
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game up, how everything's being pimped now.
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But guys, I really want you to focus in and listen to it to the end here because I love
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how he answered the very final question of the day.
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So you're going to want to make sure you stick around with that.
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And guys, I just got to tell you, there's, there's one quick thing on this that it was,
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it wasn't perfect here.
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But you know, he was on the road whenever he did this interview.
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So we're just so glad we were able to chat with him, but it's not a studio operation
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on his end.
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He was, he was at a coffee shop in Nashville.
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He was outside and there was kind of some wind and some trucks in the background then
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he had to move inside.
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It's not a perfect thing, but don't worry about that that none of that matters.
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Okay.
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He moved inside.
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He moved outside.
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None of that matters.
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Focus on the words.
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Okay.
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Focus on the words that he said.
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It's a tremendously valuable thing to hear some of the things that he's learned at such
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a young age.
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But guys, I'm not going to keep in front of you any longer.
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So without further ado, let's get into it.
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Marka pill.
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Welcome done.
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Daunted life.
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A man's podcast.
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Hey, thanks for having me.
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I'm about to be here.
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I'm glad to have you.
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It has been quite a long time since we've connected, but I'm so glad that we were able
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to reconnect because, you know, we're going to talk about a lot of baseball today.
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And as I probably said in the intro, if you guys don't like it, just deal with it.
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All right.
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If you want to go hang out in China with all those communist go for it, but here in America,
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we talk about baseball, but you know, for you, most kids growing up, Mark and in myself
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included, we grew up imagining what it would be like to be a professional baseball player,
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right?
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Playing under the lights and playing in big games, you know, pitching or hitting whatever,
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but you actually did it.
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You actually became a professional baseball player.
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You got paid money and you're still being paid money to play a child's game.
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So for you, I guess the question to start out here is when was the moment when you felt
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like going pro was likely, if not inevitable?
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Because a lot of people like they dream about it, but there's never that moment to where
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it's like, I could probably do this.
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When was that time for you?
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It had to have been in high school when, you know, and I would say going pro for baseball
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is a lot different than football or basketball or anything like that, because those guys
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that go pro in the other sports, I mean, they go straight to the league, basically.
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And baseball, I mean, you've got six, seven, eight levels of minor league baseball that
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you have to get through.
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So, so being a pro baseball player, like it sounds great, but it's still a grind and
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there's, there's just a lot of things that come along with it, but, but it was in high
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school when, you know, when I had college coaches and pro scouts come into my games and tell
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me afterwards, hey, you know, you got good stuff and it was, it was kind of their expertise,
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you know, speaking that into my life and, and, and saying, hey, you should, you should really
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work hard and, and, you know, you have the potential to, to do, to do really well.
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Yeah.
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And for these scouts, I can really start early.
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I remember the first time, I think it was my ninth grade here.
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We played against this kid and there was a ton of scouts there and he was throwing like
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92, 93 in high school, which for us, we had never seen that before.
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Oh, yeah.
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And so when you get up to the plate, you're like, I'm going to die.
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I'm definitely going to die.
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Because if I swing, it's going to hit me directly in the middle of my face.
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And that's it.
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Like it's terrifying.
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But there's always that, that moment where you kind of feel like that's going to work
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out for you.
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And for you, the dream kind of came true when you were drafted as a high school senior in
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the 15th round by the Tigers.
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And so for a lot of people, that's the moment, right?
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That's the moment where they have to really decide like, am I going to go pro right now?
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Let's go ahead and start this journey right now.
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Or am I going to do it later?
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Because in baseball, it's either you get drafted right out of high school or you have to wait
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three years.
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So why not go pro right at the ripe old age of 18 years old?
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Why go to Stanford instead to go pitch?
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I think it's because it's Stanford, you know, when you have an opportunity like that to be
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able to go to college, get an education and still work on, you know, your childhood dream
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of being a major league baseball player, it's like Stanford has the tools, the resources,
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the coaches that can make that dream a reality and then you're getting world class education
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too.
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And you know, the Bay Area in California is like pretty nice weather all year round.
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It's not a bad place to spend three or four years of your life, you know, just making
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new friends, learning a lot of new things, and then yeah, working on your game to be
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able to hopefully take that into, you know, it's a pro ball.
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Yeah, it's certainly a good feather in your cap to have that university on your resume,
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your literal resume and just your generic resume.
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But it worked out well for you because after your junior year at Stanford, you were drafted
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again.
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So you and I met the day that you got drafted because this time you were drafted in the
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15th round, you were drafted in the first round.
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And not just the first round, you were in the top 10, right?
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You were picked eighth overall by the Pirates.
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Many pegs you actually to go first overall that year, but teams were kind of worried
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that you might decide to go back to Stanford.
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They were worried about the signing bonus and you did end up going back to Stanford.
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So exactly what they were terrified about is what happened.
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So I guess walk me through, you know, why go back to Stanford?
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You're guaranteed at that exact moment, not only to be a professional, but to be a millionaire.
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You were reportedly offered close to $4 million in a signing bonus.
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You didn't seem to have anything else to prove, you know, in the Pac 10 at the time, you know,
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now the Pac 12 at Stanford, you had nothing left to prove, you know, why go back?
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Yeah, I mean, there was honestly a lot of reasons.
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You know, whenever I talk about this story, it's definitely a unique thing because most
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often guys that get signed or drafted in the top 10 picks, like they're signing.
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It's millions of dollars.
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It's life changing money.
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And I think I've just always had a different like, you know, value system than the world.
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It's like, and it's a value system and we can talk about this later, but it's a value
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system that I'm still, you know, like refining.
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And there's been things that have happened in my life that have, like, either confirmed
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that value system or caused me to change it, but at the end of the day, you know, the value
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system that I have is very unique and I don't think it's the common value system.
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So, for me, it's not about money or even, you know, the ability to, you know, go chase
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the stream.
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It's about the people.
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So one of the big things in my life was just being a team leader at Stanford.
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So I had a great junior season.
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I was drafted in the first round, but at the time that I was drafted, we had failed
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in getting to Omaha.
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So I knew that there was only one more chance to get to Omaha.
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A lot of my teammates were guys that I was really feeling like I was like getting to the
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point in our relationship where I was like having an impact and inspiring them and like
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being able to introduce them to Christianity and share my faith with them.
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And honestly, I just wanted another year of being able to pour into my teammates.
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And then on a baseball, from the baseball front, I was like, man, I've gotten better
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leaps and bounds every single year at Stanford.
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Why would I think that I couldn't further my career, even though I'm not in Pro Ball,
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but I can get better while I'm still at Stanford.
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There's lots of things in everyone, even the best pitchers in the game.
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They're always working on getting better.
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And so I just saw it as like, you know what, if the money doesn't work out, you know, after
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my senior year, I feel pretty proud about the reasons why I went back to school.
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And fortunately, the money did work out, but again, that's not the reason why I wanted
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to go back to school.
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On top of that, I was able to start Pro Ball with, you know, with my degree, I finished
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my education.
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So there was just so many reasons why it made sense at that time to go back to school.
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But from an outsider's perspective, it was like, this dude's crazy.
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Like what is he doing, you know, and I learned pretty quickly how to manage, you know, outside
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opinions.
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Well, I remember whenever you decided that you were going to go back, I was terrified
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for you.
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Like, dude, your arms is going to fall off.
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One day you're going to wake up.
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Your arms going to be laying there, right on the, on the table or on the bed.
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There's no way that you're going to be able to kind of make it, but you definitely rolled
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the dice.
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But we'll get back into kind of the trajectory of your baseball story here in a second.
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But I'm going to go back to something you said about value system, because I don't want
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to give too short a shrift to that.
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Because again, you kind of described in a 30,000 foot view, you know, how your value system
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was just different.
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But let's bring it a little bit closer to ground level now.
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Go into what your particular value system is because you mission your Christian faith.
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And obviously, that's how you and I have connected and stayed connected over the years.
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But how did that directly influence what you were doing outside of just pouring into your
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teammates and perhaps, you know, having a prayerful decision making process, whereas
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other people would just have a pragmatic one.
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Yeah, I think it, I think it, you know, like in Christian circles, you talk about the world
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view, right?
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So it's, it's this understanding of, of, all right, you know, who am I?
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How did I get here?
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What am I here for?
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What's my purpose, what should I be doing and you kind of work your way back to figure
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out what am I doing today and, you know, what are the reasons for why I'm doing what I'm
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doing.
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And, and I think, I think if you're a Christian, you really understand that, you know, God's
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love is not for creation, even though he loves creation, it's for his people.
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And so if like we, if we start to understand that like God has loved us, therefore, I should
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love others in the same way that God has loved us and I've received the love of God, then
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you start to make decisions that are very people centric and relational centric and it
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can be, it can be difficult to figure out how to do that because at the same time, you
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have your own dreams and your own goals and maybe it's a career dream or, or, you know,
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whatever an educational dream, whatever it may be.
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And so you just, you just try to like frame your decisions through this lens of like,
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okay, I'm called to love God and to love others.
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And I'm called to do that wherever I am and, and after, you know, like in that specific
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decision, after spending a lot of time in prayer, it's like the best way for me to love God
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and love others is to go back to school.
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And it's not something that I have to like explain or, or defend to anyone, it's something
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that I feel felt really clear about and still, you know, have no regrets about that decision.
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So yeah, for me, I think values is like, it's like, you know, family, which is relational,
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right?
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Your, your teammates, your coaches, the fans, even when it comes to baseball, it's like
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caring for those people because they are all deeply loved by God is, is ultimately the
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way that like, I think Christ has called us to live and, and that's played out through
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our attitude, through our efforts through the things that we can control because there's
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a lot of times where you try to love someone and they don't love you back and, you know,
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it's, it's something that you just have to, you know, let go of and, and just know that
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all right, God is, God is ultimately in control and I'm not going to change anyone's lives.
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It's going to be God that's doing it, but he can use me to do that.
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So real quick in that same vein, and we'll certainly get back to baseball here in a second.
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Things did work out and we'll get into that here in just a second.
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They worked out pretty well for you after your senior year.
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However, let's say it didn't go well, let's say you got hurt or let's say even worse than
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getting hurt.
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Let's say you were just terrible, right?
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Like you lost velocity on the fastball.
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There was no zip on the slider, you know, that you just, you got hammered, right?
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Yeah, the ERA close to like eight or something like that.
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And then now you're, you're tumbling down the, the draft board, right?
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And all that money that you had, the guaranteed money is not there anymore.
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Do you honestly, in your heart of hearts feel like you would still be singing the same
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tune?
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Because I always get a little bit of a chuckle when people that are mega successful are like,
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oh, yeah, I mean, I trusted God and now look at all my Mercedes.
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Like it's a little bit different for those people.
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I want to hear from the people where they trusted God and it didn't quite work out the
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way they wanted it to and God showed him something else.
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But from your perspective, you honestly feel like you'd have the same outlook.
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Oh, 100% and, and that's the thing about like decisions.
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Like once you make that decision, you know, it's like, if you can make it with confidence
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and conviction and peace, it's like, it doesn't really matter what the, the alternative would
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have been, right, because you know, you don't know the future.
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And so you make the best decision you can at the time for the best reasons that you can,
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you know, you can come up with, whether that's faith or whether that's something else, right?
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For me, it's faith and, and, and then whatever the results are, like, that's what the results
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are.
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And as long as you're going into it, like with a clear mind, like the only way this decision
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is successful is if everything works out, right?
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And it's funny because like you talk about, oh, having high ERA's and career tumbling
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and all that stuff.
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And it's like, that could have very well happened for me my senior year, but it didn't, well,
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it started to happen after I got drafted.
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And so, you know, you look at it, you're like, all right, well, maybe if I lost all that
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money, you know, the, the, you know, a couple million dollars that I had in the bag, my junior
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year and I walked away with college with nothing, like I still would have had peace, but this,
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you could say the same thing about my career.
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It's like people were pegging me to be, you know, a hundred fifty, two hundred million
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dollar career player, right?
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And I haven't made a single, I basically made minor league salary for like six years after,
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you know, after I signed and, and that's just the way it's gone.
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But do I have any regrets about anything, any decisions that I've made?
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I was like, I honestly don't think I can say I do.
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There may be a few decisions here and there where I think God used those as like teaching
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moments for me and humbling moments for me.
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And I think that's a really beautiful thing is how God works in our lives.
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Like we don't have to, we don't have to look at our past mistakes and our failures and
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say, man, I, I'm just, I'm a total screw up, like there's nothing good in me.
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I can actually, and I think God, that's how God uses those situations and those decisions.
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My dad always tells me, you know, he's like, whenever you're making a decision, sometimes
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God just wants you to choose, right?
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And the beautiful thing about who God is and how he works, he's going to bless the good
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decisions and he's going to redeem the bad ones.
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And, and at the end of the day, like when you, when you start to understand that, you read
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Romans 8 28, it's like, I know that God calls all things to work together for the good of
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those who love them.
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Like, that's how it plays out in real life.
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It's like, God blesses the good decisions and he redeems the bad decisions.
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And at the end of the day, your character is going to be built.
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You're going to be a better man for it.
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And I think that's just an incredible, like way and it's a pretty freeing way to look
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at your life and your decision.
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Yeah, I appreciate you going to end all that detail.
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But let's kind of go back to after you throw your last pitch, your senior year at Stanford.
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You didn't have, you know, the great Omaha moment, but only one team can have that, but
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you pitch your senior year.
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You do great.
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You probably a little bit better than your junior year.
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I think most people would say, there's no college to go back to now.
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Okay.
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Right now it's pro or bust and your hometown team, right?
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The Houston Astros have the number one pick and they take you, right?
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So, so this is just that magical moment.
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You're now on a short list of number one overall picks with guys like, you know, Hall of Famers
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or Hall of Fame caliber players like King Griffey, Jr and A rod and Chipper Jones and
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Joe Maurer and Bryce Harper and on and on and on and on, right?
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Take me through that whole thing, right?
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You played baseball your entire life.
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Your hometown team selects you number one overall, like your gamble paid off.
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Take me through it.
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Yeah, it was, it was a surreal moment.
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You know, I would have never never in a million years expected that to happen, but, you know,
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over the course of my college career, like you kind of see that trajectory and then,
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I mean, so many things outside of my control, like, just the fact that the Astros were
19:09
bad team and I was more than Houston.
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I rooted for them.
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I went to games watching, you know, Jeff Bagwell and the big physio and all these guys.
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But I was a kid and then I'm all of a sudden in a place where I'm a like logical choice
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for my hometown team to take me with the top bag, it was surreal.
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And I can say that's only like only by God orchestrating something that was pretty crazy.
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So, yeah, I mean, I think it was, it was a day filled with excitement and joy, you know,
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and a lot of like hope and expectation and so it was, yeah, it was a surreal moment.
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Yeah.
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It's just a crazy thing.
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I remember just being so unbelievably happy for you because I thought you were a lunatic
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when you didn't go after your junior year and, you know, you explained all the reasons
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for it, but you teed this up a little bit in terms of the struggles that you had once
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you got to the minor leagues.
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But, you know, you make your way through the minors with the Astros.
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You had some high points and some success, but you also got knocked around a bit.
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You make it all the way to the Astros triple A team, the Fresno Grizzlies, the level just
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before the majors.
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But after finishing the 2015 season, you know, the team that drafted you, your hometown team,
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they trade you to the Phillies, okay.
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And then you begin the 2016 season with the Phillies triple A squad, the Lehigh Valley
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iron pigs, maybe the coolest name in baseball, but then you hurt your shoulder.
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And then while rehabbing your shoulder, you hurt your elbow, right?
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And then early in the season, in that year in June, you undergo season ending surgery
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under elbow.
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I'm assuming up to that point, you had never had any major pitching arm injuries.
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Then in 2017, you go back to triple A Lehigh Valley, you hurt your shoulder again, but you
20:49
didn't end up starting about 17, I think it was 17 games, but your ERA was above five.
20:54
You end up getting designated for assignment.
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And then we go to 2018 here.
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I am blowing through your entire, you know, you know, professional career, but you announce,
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you know, at the ripe old age of 26 now, that you're going to step away from baseball,
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which is otherwise known as retiring, right?
21:09
So from number one overall draft pick to bust, right?
21:12
That's the headline.
21:13
That was actually the headline for, for somebody I can't, but I don't know if his bleacher report
21:16
or something like that.
21:17
Number one overall pick, a few years in the minors, and then you're done.
21:21
So take us through that entire process of going from getting drafted to now you're out
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of baseball.
21:26
Gosh, it felt like it was kind of a slow, just like, descent from the top in a way.
21:35
So, you know, it was like only one player every year is drafted first of all.
21:40
Like, that's just, it's crazy.
21:42
Like when I talk about my college career and I talk about the draft and all that stuff,
21:46
I feel like I'm talking about someone else at times because, because my career took a
21:52
very drastic turn.
21:53
So, like, in 2014, my first full season, right before the season, I hadn't happened to
21:59
me.
22:00
And after that, like, things just started to, like, well, in 2014, like, pretty rapidly
22:07
declined into, oh my gosh, what's happening.
22:09
Like, I remember, I remember it was basically one year anniversary of me getting drafted
22:14
and signing, but the Astros, being at the top of my, and one year later, I have like
22:19
a 90 R.A.
22:20
and able.
22:21
And I'm like, what in the world is going on?
22:24
I had no answers as to why I was bad and why I wasn't playing well.
22:30
And that's almost more frustrating than, like, just playing that in itself.
22:34
It's like, yeah, obviously I don't want to play, but I'm working hard and I'm turning
22:40
over every single stone I can think of to try to figure out, all right, how do I write
22:44
a ship?
22:46
And yeah, and that was just one of those, you know, just, I think, just humble moments
22:50
of like, all right, there are things that are in my control that I can't figure out.
22:56
And then there are things that are outside of my control that I think God is simultaneously
23:01
teaching me how to deal with and understand.
23:04
And so after the 2014 season, I mean, that was like a fairly, from a, from a baseball
23:11
player's perspective, like fairly traumatic here, like, I get it, we're playing a kid's
23:15
game.
23:16
And so like, even failures, like you're still, you're still getting to go out there.
23:20
But I mean, when you care about something and it becomes your livelihood in your job,
23:24
it's like just trying to compare to anyone who's working in the workplace and be like,
23:30
go from having the best year of your life to literally, like, trying to do the simplest
23:36
things and being unable to do it.
23:38
And not knowing why you can't do it.
23:41
And it was, it was incredibly, incredibly difficult.
23:45
And then I think from there that, you know, I don't know, I don't know exactly what's
23:49
gone through the Astros, you know, front office and kind of what their plans were.
23:54
But obviously they wanted to win and they kind of saw me as like, all right, a really
23:58
high potential prospect who is really struggling.
24:03
And maybe, I mean, I assume they're like, well, let's, let's maybe move him to a different
24:07
organization.
24:08
Maybe that'll be good for him.
24:10
And we can still get some value out of them.
24:13
And so that's why they traded me after the 2015 season.
24:17
And 2015 was hard because, you know, that was like the year the Astros, like, actually,
24:23
we're knocking on the door in the playoffs.
24:25
I mean, like, hey, like, we're coming, we're going to be good.
24:28
We got some good young players and when I was in AAA watching all that happen and feeling
24:34
like, man, if I have a really good game.
24:36
I could be the next guy up and eventually, you know, like, there was no, there was really
24:43
no opportunity at that point and at the end of the season, they ended up trading me.
24:47
So I go to the, go to the Phillies and end up starting in AAA and pretty quickly that
24:55
first year, like I have shoulder issues, elbow issues, I end up having surgery.
25:01
I come back in 2017 and I'm thinking, gosh, this has got to be the year.
25:05
I just got put on the 40-man roster, you know, like, I had an opportunity to make it to the
25:10
big leagues.
25:11
I got an opportunity to help the Phillies like start right in the ship in their organization.
25:17
And, and, and I'm battling through pain in my shoulder basically the entire season until
25:23
it gets to a point where I'm like, I can't, I can't keep doing it.
25:26
It's like, not only am I damaging or injuring myself, but I am, I'm not putting our team
25:33
in a good position to win games and, and the best thing for me and for the team is, is
25:39
for me to, like, say something and, and get the, you know, get the, the treatment that
25:43
I need to, to get back on the field.
25:46
Well, that, that year doing treatments, like, man, I would check off every single box and
25:52
in, in like the training room and as soon as I'd go out and start throwing again, it would
25:57
just start hurt.
25:58
And I'm like, gosh, what, what the heck is going on?
26:02
And by the end of 2017, you know, not just the season, but like by the end of the year
26:07
when we were in the off season, it's like, I hadn't been able to throw even in the off
26:11
season.
26:12
And I kind of saw the riding on the wall that's like, man, I'm probably going to need surgery
26:16
and shoulder surgery takes a long time to rehab.
26:20
And I'm already in a point, in a place where I'm spending, I'm not competing, um, you know,
26:26
frustrated.
26:27
I'm away from family.
26:28
I'm, I'm at a point where it's like, I just need, I need to change a pace.
26:32
I need to figure out, you know, some things of like, kind of losing myself in a way of
26:37
like, all right, I'm not around the people that I love.
26:41
I'm not doing what I love anymore.
26:45
And, and it was, it was a struggle because in some ways it, it almost seemed like giving
26:50
up or quitting.
26:52
And, you know, I've been, I've been, I think raised to like persevere and keep working.
26:59
But in other ways, it was like, gosh, it would actually be worse for me to keep doing this.
27:03
Like, this isn't helping me.
27:05
It's not helping anyone else that I'm around.
27:08
And so the best thing, um, I, you know, how to make that decision was to step away and
27:13
kind of get the reset button and refocus and, um, ended up, ended up choosing to have surgery,
27:19
but not, it probably wasn't until a year after that.
27:22
So I basically lived a whole year without ever thinking I'd play baseball again.
27:26
Um, and so it was, yeah, it was a really interesting time, but when I, when I made that decision
27:31
to step away, I, I had so much peace about it and I had so much joy about it too.
27:36
Um, but it took a long time to get to that point.
27:39
Well, Mark, you step away from the game that you love that you've given so much time and
27:43
effort to and for almost the entirety of the professional baseball population, when
27:49
whenever you step away, whenever that time comes and whenever that happens, that's it.
27:53
I mean, that there is no, there is no road home.
27:56
There is no comeback.
27:57
There's no great ending to the story.
27:59
And I remember, you know, whenever I heard that you retired in 2018, I was like, oh,
28:02
you know, that's unfortunate.
28:03
I really wish that guy would have had a better career, blah, blah, blah, and then you just
28:06
kind of move on with your life.
28:07
And then here you go.
28:08
All of a sudden in 2021, you pop up on my Twitter feed again, you're making a comeback.
28:13
You, you, you announce that you're attempting a comeback to professional baseball.
28:16
So I don't have, I normally have an exact question, right?
28:19
I don't have an exact question.
28:20
I have so many questions in my head.
28:22
Why come back?
28:23
Did you blow all your money?
28:25
Were you working at like a gas station in the meantime?
28:27
And that wasn't helping.
28:28
You know, what was your velocity like, you know, whenever you came back, were you pitching
28:31
the whole time that you were gone?
28:33
And you were just like, you know, in your tunnel, trying to figure it all out.
28:37
And then you're one day you're going to come out of the back cave and throw 98.
28:40
Take me through all of that.
28:42
I mean, there are some thoughts about that, you know, getting to work under the radar
28:47
is, is really fun, honestly, because I lived under the microscope for a long time.
28:55
And so, you know, whenever I would have a good game or a bad game, the articles were
29:00
always written about me.
29:01
Whenever I wasn't playing, it was like, you know, guy like Lance McCollers, we were at
29:06
the same place, he had a good game.
29:08
And in the article talking about him and his successes, they would compare him to me.
29:14
And I'm like, yeah, I was frustrated for myself.
29:17
I was frustrated for Lance because, like, I don't want to take his spotlight.
29:21
And like, he's, I mean, he's just such a good guy and a talented player.
29:27
And so it's like, there was such a focus on, on Mark, you know, what's going on with Mark
29:32
though?
29:33
Why is he not playing well?
29:34
Why are other guys playing well?
29:35
All this stuff and I just wanted to be, like, another guy on the team because that's all
29:40
I was.
29:41
It's like, yeah, I get it all the hype and money and all that stuff.
29:44
But it's like, at the end of the day, it's like, I'm just there at work, just like everyone
29:48
else.
29:49
And yeah, so, so getting to work under the radar was, was a lot of fun because I didn't
29:56
have reporters ask me how I'm feeling every day and have, like, I was able to kind of
30:01
control the work and, and when you're coming back from a, my shoulder is going to be like,
30:06
it just takes a lot of time and it's not a straight line recovery.
30:10
You're going to have a lot of really good days and you're going to have a lot of really
30:13
bad days and that's just the way that it goes.
30:17
And so it was nice to be able to give myself that long runway and say, all right, I've
30:22
got, you know, two years to figure this out.
30:26
I don't need to be back in two months, you know, and so if I have a stretch of like two
30:31
or three weeks where I'm not feeling great, that's not going to frustrate me because that's
30:36
the expectation.
30:37
It's like, I know it's a, it's a marathon and, you know, every step in that marathon
30:42
isn't going to feel great, you know, but there's going to be a lot more good days than bad
30:47
days.
30:48
And if you have that, I think over time you start to see the progress.
30:52
And I was actually hoping to come back in 2020.
30:54
You know, I was, I was going both ends on my own during spring training, just not with
30:59
the team.
31:00
And I was hoping that I'd feel at a good place, you know, you know, basically right when spring
31:06
training ended to say, Hey, Billy, I'd love to come back.
31:09
I'd love to maybe do like a longer spring training, actually face hitters, do a month
31:14
or two and then go back in the 2020 season.
31:16
But obviously, COVID happened and finally baseball was shut down for a whole year.
31:21
So I saw that as a decent, decently good, you know, reentry point for me of the 2021 season.
31:29
So I shut my throne down for, you know, a month or two kept working out and training
31:34
and doing all that stuff and then started on again and got ready for this past season.
31:39
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32:09
Right.
32:10
So so how did the 2021 season go for you and I guess what are the prospects for you moving
32:15
forward?
32:16
Like what is 2022 look like?
32:17
Because I know whenever you step away, you're put on the restricted list, I believe.
32:20
And so it's kind of different like how the contracts work.
32:22
So kind of take us through what how this went and how it's looking for the near future.
32:26
Yeah.
32:27
Yeah.
32:28
So basically the restricted list basically means we're hitting the pause button on your
32:31
career, you know, so we still have your rights and we'll have your rights forever until you
32:35
come back.
32:37
And so so there was, you know, so what that meant for me is I'm still under the original
32:42
minorly contract with Phillies, so they still had my rights, they'll have my rights through
32:47
next season as well.
32:49
So I wouldn't be a free agent till I'm 31.
32:53
You know, and if I get called up next year, there's a lot of like nuance in baseball that
32:58
you have to really have to be a baseball guy.
33:00
But but yeah, potentially, you know, if things go well, I could probably be a Philly for the
33:04
rest of my life.
33:07
You know, assuming they see me in their plans, but 2021 season was up and down from a performance
33:14
perspective, but it was a total success from a health perspective.
33:19
And that was the biggest thing.
33:20
My last full season healthy was 2015.
33:22
So when you put it in that perspective, you're like, okay, it's been six years since Mark
33:26
made it from start to finish without going on the disabled list without having surgery
33:30
or an injury or anything like that.
33:33
And that's a huge win for me.
33:35
Even though I had a six year A, you know, at the end of the season, I tweeted out, I was
33:39
like, man, there's no way you can spend my stats to like, you know, like to say that.
33:45
Oh, man, I had a really successful season.
33:47
But my goal for the season was to stay healthy, never miss a start and do everything that
33:53
the Phillies asked me.
33:54
And I did that.
33:55
And now the next step is, all right, how do I do that better?
33:59
You know, now that I'm healthy, how do I go out and perform and compete in a way that
34:05
you know, that actually makes them think long and hard about putting me in the big leagues
34:11
because I'm healthy.
34:13
I understand that.
34:14
And that's got to be such a cool spot for you to be in because, and then there's players
34:16
that you can look at, like obviously being a Cardinals fan, you look at a guy like Adam
34:19
Wayne, right?
34:20
A couple of seasons ago, it looked like his long story, maybe Hall of Fame career was
34:23
coming to an end.
34:24
And then last season he pitched huge stretches like he was going to be Cy Young winner for
34:28
the National League.
34:29
Absolutely unfathomable.
34:31
And his, I think his fastball is topping out at 92 93 these days he's getting down in Greg
34:35
Maddox territory.
34:36
All right.
34:37
So if you're wondering why Mark is in a different place is because apparently they don't have
34:41
outlets that work in the city of Nashville.
34:43
Come on Nashville.
34:44
You're supposed to be a city of growth, but here's all these buildings without outdoor
34:47
outlets at work.
34:48
But we're going to go and get into this because part of the reason why you and I reconnected
34:51
is because on September the 17th of this year, you went viral with this tweet thread that
34:55
you put out there.
34:56
And this tweet thread is great for people that love baseball people that don't know anything
35:00
about baseball, young kids that are playing all that, but I'll read the first tweet and
35:04
I'm going to get into some of the other things from the thread.
35:06
The first tweet said this in 2013 I was the number one overall pick in the MOV draft.
35:11
Five years later, I was called the biggest bust in MLB history.
35:14
Today, I'm working my way back and I'm here to share both the hard earned lessons I've
35:17
learned along the way.
35:19
The first or one of the early tweets I was in that thread was this one talent finds a
35:24
way.
35:25
Don't worry about who's watching.
35:26
I played two years of high school varsity as a relief pitcher pitching only 30 innings.
35:30
17 mates had college commitments before I did.
35:33
Through hard work, I finally earned a Stanford baseball scholarship my senior year.
35:36
So take us into that while you thought that was such a big lesson for you.
35:41
Yeah.
35:42
That was one that that I think really resonated with me when I was like reflecting on writing
35:47
this post and I was like, all right, well, what are some of the lessons I've learned?
35:52
I feel like I kind of got in this really introspective phase when I turned 30 this summer.
35:58
So it's like I've been working on those thoughts for a while.
36:02
For me, one of the things that I tell a lot of parents that ask me about their kids playing
36:08
baseball is, you know, what showcases should I do?
36:12
What team should I be on?
36:13
All this stuff.
36:14
And I was like, at the end of the day, it's not like, yes, it is a little bit of your job
36:19
to market your skills to coaches or pro scouts, but it's more to their job to find the best
36:25
players.
36:26
And so, like, it should be your primary job to be the best player that you can be.
36:32
And you do that through hard work and through, you know, going into the gym and going on
36:37
the field and working on the skills and doing that every single day.
36:41
And at the end of it, like, before you know it, you're going to find yourself in the position
36:45
that you ultimately want to be in.
36:48
Whether the opportunities to go to like Stanford come around or not, you're going to put yourself
36:54
in the best opportunity to be found if you are making yourself as good as possible.
37:01
I think a lot of times we focus on the externals and we don't focus on what we can control.
37:07
And so if you can focus on how to make yourself just a better person, a better man, in whatever
37:14
discipline you're trying to be great at, you know, other people will eventually see that.
37:19
But you shouldn't be going out there and trying to show off your, you know, all the things
37:26
that you're getting better at.
37:29
And I mean, there's some business application to that and obviously marketing is a big part
37:34
of that.
37:35
But I think there's more, there's more just about life.
37:37
It's like, all right, the character that we want as men is being built behind closed doors.
37:45
And at a certain point, people will see that and respect you and see the work that you've
37:51
been doing because you're, you know, maybe you're a more caring person, you're a better
37:56
husband, you're a better father, right?
37:59
You're a better teammate on whatever, your sports team or business team you find yourself
38:04
on.
38:05
And at the end of the day, it's going to really increase your opportunities to accomplish
38:10
the goals that you want to accomplish.
38:12
And there were a lot of other great tweets from that thread.
38:14
And guys, I'm going to put the entire tweet thread here in the show notes so you can definitely
38:16
check that out.
38:17
But there was one other one that I wanted to talk to you about because I thought this
38:20
was interesting.
38:21
You said this, opportunity, opportunity comes when you least expect it.
38:25
Be ready.
38:26
My sophomore year, our number one Friday starter slices finger open two weeks before the season.
38:31
He was out all year.
38:32
I stepped in and ended up pitching every Friday night for the next three seasons becoming
38:36
a top MLB draft pick.
38:37
So talk us through that because for a lot of people, it's just like, oh, you know, bad
38:40
luck and opportunities never going to find me.
38:42
But talk about just the value of just being ready for that.
38:45
Yeah.
38:46
I mean, you never know when like your name is going to be called and to step into a big
38:51
situation.
38:52
And obviously you, you know, working hard and comparing yourself can be the biggest thing
38:58
that can help you in seasoning those opportunities.
39:02
I think, I think people generally understand that.
39:05
I think what's really hard is saying, hey, this is what I want and I don't have it yet.
39:12
Therefore, I'm going to stop working because it just doesn't seem like it's ever going
39:16
to happen.
39:17
And then I think that's when opportunity comes and goes and it passes you by because you
39:21
weren't prepared and you weren't waiting and I think there's a lot of, you know, biblical,
39:29
you know, language that, you know, supports that just in, you know, expecting Christ return
39:37
and things like that.
39:38
But it's like, like, there's always this kind of message of being prepared, being ready
39:45
and seizing those opportunities when they come because you never know like when they're
39:50
going to come.
39:51
But we had our, we had our starting rotation set my sophomore year.
39:56
Like everyone knew who was going to be the number one guy and, you know, tragedy struck.
40:02
It was like a freak accident where this guy slices his finger open and misses the whole
40:07
season.
40:08
They're like, hey, Mark, you need to step in and you need to compete against, you know,
40:11
that year I've placed Sunny Gray, Garrett Cole, like some of the top guys that are still top
40:16
guys in the big leagues now and I went toe to toe with them and that's where I really
40:20
learned how to compete, how to have success against some of the best guys, you know, in
40:25
college baseball.
40:26
They gave me a lot of confidence going forward.
40:29
And I think without that experience, like without that happening, you know, I probably
40:35
wouldn't have been the pitcher that I was in college.
40:38
Absolutely.
40:39
And guys again, the whole thread is really interesting.
40:41
You should definitely read the whole thing.
40:42
I'll put that in the show notes.
40:43
I want to transition now, Mark, to talking a little bit more about just kind of generic
40:47
baseball things.
40:48
The first thing I wanted to kind of throw out there to you is it seems like we're witnessing
40:52
in real time the death of the modern starting pitcher because I feel like, especially when
40:58
you watch the playoffs this year, starting pitchers weren't really pitching into the,
41:02
I mean, not the seventh eighth, certainly not the ninth inning.
41:05
You know, you watch the World Series and, you know, look at Blake Snell, a couple of World
41:08
Series ago.
41:09
He's having an amazing game, but the raised system says you can't face the lineup for a
41:13
third time in a row and they take them out, they end up losing the World Series, not because
41:17
of that one decision, but it just so happened to be in the game that they got clinched by
41:21
the Dodgers.
41:22
And so for you, what do you make of that?
41:24
Because I got to tell you, I don't really like it.
41:26
I like it.
41:27
I guess for relief pitchers because more of those guys are going to get contracts to make
41:30
some money, but I don't really like the idea of every two or three innings seeing a new
41:35
pitcher.
41:36
And then towards the end of the game, every two or three outs seeing a new pitcher.
41:40
Yeah.
41:41
Yeah.
41:42
So if you think about it, I feel like it's just a natural progression of strategy and
41:47
baseball, right?
41:48
You're like, all right, it seems pretty clear that guys that are fresh typically pitch better
41:54
than guys that have been pitching for five or six innings, right?
41:58
And so as your manager, when you're making that decision, you're like, all right, I got
42:01
stable pool of guys throwing 95 plus 100 miles an hour, or I got this guy who's battled his
42:09
way through five or six innings, probably has enough in him to go one more.
42:15
But what's the point if we're close and we really need him in this game and the raise
42:21
of taking it to the extreme where they're like, our analytic department says the third
42:26
time through the lineup is not good for any.
42:30
So we will never let anyone go the third time through the lineup.
42:34
And I think that's taking it to an extreme because as a starting pitcher and knowing my
42:40
experience, it's like, yeah, there are times where it's like, I probably need to not go
42:44
through the lineup a third time.
42:46
And then there are other games where I'm like, I could probably go through the lineup five
42:49
times and not have any issues, right?
42:55
And I think part of it is like, we're taking the human element out of the game a little
43:00
bit with all the data analytics, and I think there's a huge value in managers that don't
43:06
just go by the book, but they know their players really well from a human perspective, they
43:12
have relationships with them and a mutual trust is built and that takes time and you
43:17
have to do it pretty quickly in baseball, but a mutual trust is built to where you guys
43:21
can have honest conversations.
43:22
Because I would used to be the guys like, never take me out ever.
43:25
So I needed my coach to pull me when it was appropriate to do that, but as I've learned
43:30
myself, especially by my senior year of college, it's like, I knew if I still had it and I
43:37
knew how to get, if I knew how to get the guys out that I was facing next inning, I'm
43:41
like, I'm still going, you know, and then there'll be games where I'm like, man, I'm
43:45
kind of struggling and my command is in this great, like, and I know we got a stud in the
43:50
bullpen who come in and clean this up, like, let me trust my teammates and we'll get this
43:54
win right here.
43:55
So I think we're getting away from that, and it's funny because the best pitchers in baseball
44:03
are the ones that can go seven, eight innings, right?
44:08
And they're allowed to, but I think we're at a point where that's not the expectation
44:13
and not the norm anymore, like you have to earn that as a pitcher to be able to go, you
44:18
know, the seven, eight, nine innings that, you know, I was familiar with in college.
44:23
You got the guy average, almost eight innings is part, you know, it's kind of crazy.
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44:57
Well, I think that's interesting to talk about as well.
45:00
One thing that you mentioned is the velocity of pitchers like coming out of the bullpen.
45:03
You have every guy throws close to a hundred with a hook.
45:06
It's absurd.
45:07
It's nowhere where it used to be.
45:09
But from your perspective, as a pitcher, do you feel like we're getting close to reaching
45:14
the human body's peak for how fast a baseball can be thrown?
45:18
Because you got guys like Jordan Hicks that has thrown 104, 105 with movement.
45:23
I think Arrelda Schaben has a 106 pitch.
45:26
It's more straight, not a whole lot of movement.
45:28
But do you feel like there is a peak like someone can't possibly throw faster than this
45:34
number?
45:36
I mean, I would say yes at a certain point, but I think we're going to keep pushing that
45:42
forward in every athletic feat that has ever been attempted, we have continually pushed
45:50
the boundaries of what we thought was humanly possible.
45:52
I think that will continue.
45:54
Everyone was like, no one, it's not possible to run a four minute mile.
45:59
Now people run four minute miles like it's nothing.
46:03
There was running a marathon under three hours.
46:07
It's like, well now that's like a goal for the average Boston marathon.
46:15
There's just all these things that, I think what Nike did that documentary on the two
46:19
hour marathon, this up two.
46:23
These feats are being pushed more and more.
46:27
You look at gymnastics and I know you had a podcast about some own vials, but what she
46:32
does is like no other human can do that, but maybe in 30 years, that's going to be the
46:38
norm for what we see on the gymnastics floor and all these routines.
46:44
We're going to see almost humans be trained from a young age to be excellent at one thing.
46:52
So I think that bar will be progressed more and more, but the interesting thing about
46:57
being a pitcher is it's not just about how hard you throw, there's so many other aspects
47:02
to it.
47:03
So the hardest throwers aren't always the best pitchers.
47:06
And so if we've kind of gotten away from the skill of pitching in my opinion, I think there
47:14
are a lot of guys that still do it really well.
47:16
But the guys that throw the hardest, you'll see a no name guy who you've never heard of
47:23
and he's made it to the big leagues because he's thrown 98, 99, 100 miles an hour.
47:28
He's got one pitch, maybe a breaking ball.
47:31
And in two years, they've used them, they've thrown them in all these games.
47:37
They've got 70 appearances a year and after two years, his arms won out and now they got
47:43
a new guy that's coming up with the minors and doing the same thing.
47:47
And back then, maybe even like 10, 15 years ago, it's like a guy throwing 100, it's like
47:52
that's huge headline news.
47:54
You're like, wow, this is one of the best players in all of baseball.
47:58
And now it's like, all right, that's, you know, that's, that's unique and that's new.
48:04
But that's unique and cool and valuable, but it's not new anymore, you know.
48:09
Right.
48:10
It's kind of old hat at this point.
48:11
The other thing that a lot of people are trying to or a lot of people are talking about
48:15
is artificially trying to speed up the game of baseball.
48:19
So MLB is kind of tweaked and made minor league baseball as well, you know, seven game or
48:24
seven inning double headers, putting pitchers on a pitch clock, you know, starting the runner
48:28
on second base and extra innings, which is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of.
48:31
Why don't you start them halfway in between third base and home and tell them that they
48:34
can't be picked off?
48:35
You know, what do you think about baseball, you know, baseball macro trying to make all
48:40
these changes to fundamentally change the game of baseball to make it faster, to make
48:44
it quicker, to make it more like some other sport.
48:47
I understand why they're doing it, but I think they like what I'm concerned is that baseball
48:56
is going to lose itself in making some of these changes.
49:00
It's like, it's like just the fundamentals of baseball is it's not a fast-paced game.
49:06
Like football is downtime and then everything happening all at once.
49:11
Basketball is back and forth, up and down the court.
49:16
And so baseball is like one pitch at a time and something could happen on any given pitch,
49:23
but most often nothing does happen on any given pitch.
49:27
And so it's a much more leisurely watch and a lot of people, yeah, I didn't grow up like
49:35
watching soccer or anything, but a lot of people would say baseball is probably going
49:38
to go boring with soccer now, you know, which is crazy because I always thought baseball
49:44
is so exciting and I still do, but I think MLB, I think part of the reason that MLB is
49:53
facing the issues that they're facing is because there are so many games and there's almost
49:59
like this like boredom I think that fans have because they're like, well, hey, we're losing
50:04
this game.
50:05
So, you know, it doesn't really matter that much, so each game like has a little bit less
50:08
significance for every game and then people are like, well, let's just speed these up
50:15
because it's like I imagine that no one would have any issues with a three and a half, four
50:20
hour game if you only had two or three games a week, you know.
50:26
And so I get it like we like having long seasons, I think for the players and the owners, they
50:31
like the revenues and all that stuff, but from a fan experience, yeah, I mean baseball
50:40
is kind of a precarious situation because they want to have a more exciting product,
50:44
but baseball isn't an exciting product if you're trying to just do like the quick, you
50:48
know, 15, 10, 15 second clips, yeah, you get a few highlights from a game every now and
50:55
then, but it's like, man, you're going to have a hard time convincing someone with those
51:01
clips.
51:02
If that's what they're expecting every single time to go to a game and be like, wait a minute,
51:06
this isn't what it's like you said it was going to be like, I got that they're going
51:10
to be hitting home runs or stealing bases or striking everyone out every single moment
51:14
of the game.
51:15
So it's just, it's just interesting.
51:18
I don't know if I have any like opinions on how to fix it, but I just don't want baseball
51:23
to lose like what makes baseball, baseball, you know, in the process.
51:30
I think if you've never played baseball, you think it's boring because when I'm watching
51:32
baseball, I'm looking at how the catcher's setting up.
51:35
I'm looking at kind of the defensive shifts, even though the defensive shifts now have gotten
51:39
like obnoxious, but like even whenever a guy hits a ball really hard, whether it's a home
51:43
run or not, I always rewind it to see if the pitcher missed a spot or to see if the pitcher
51:48
nailed his spot, but the pitcher or the hitter just got his barrel on it.
51:51
Like I think that's really interesting, but it's not really for everybody.
51:54
But the last thing kind of on this, and this is my least favorite thing about modern baseball.
52:00
I'm literally getting angry just thinking about describing it to you, Mark, but it's
52:04
how everything now in baseball is being pimped everything.
52:09
So you have these guys like a kunya and like Soto and in some of these other dudes, they'll
52:14
hit a home run in May in a seven run ball game that they're winning or losing and they are
52:20
pimping it like they just won game seven of the World Series.
52:24
Like they just walked off the World Series.
52:26
Because guess what?
52:27
If you're Joe Carter and you hit a home run to win the World Series, go crazy Joe.
52:31
You'll never hit a bigger home run.
52:32
I'm down with all that.
52:33
David freeze.
52:34
You hit a walk off home run game six of the World Series to send it to game seven.
52:37
I'm great with that.
52:38
But I feel like it's like rotting what our children because like even kids now they turn
52:43
a double play like an everyday double play and it's oh yeah what and then they do their
52:48
little TikTok dance and they move on I can't stand it.
52:51
It's driving me nuts.
52:52
Am I just an old curmudgeon or is this a problem?
52:55
I don't think you're an old curmudgeon.
52:59
Let me just say that first of all I don't so I think the problem that people have with
53:05
it is because it's like dude you're in a you're a big leader like act like you've been there
53:10
before like this isn't the only home run you're ever going to hit right like it's different
53:15
like Dan was named Daniel Camarena with a when he hit that he was like a really fitter
53:20
with Padres this year with a great male officer like okay like if you can celebrate all you
53:27
want.
53:28
Walk around the bases I don't care like no one's going to blame you for that right.
53:34
But guys you know guys that are like the best of the best it's like and they're they're
53:38
pimping stuff people are like generally hey I like you've been there before whatever and
53:43
I think this goes to the fact that like again what we're talking about with the time issues
53:48
and things that baseball is trying to change it's like people just realize that each game
53:53
and itself is not that important right over the course of season there are maybe one to
53:58
three games for a series that is like it's August we're facing our Bible it's number
54:04
one number two and whatever division we're in like this is a huge series we need to show
54:09
up we need and and no one has issues when people right those you know those home runs
54:15
or or you know strike someone out yell and get all excited like no one has I don't think
54:21
people have issues with with those moments that are huge moments and if you know baseball
54:26
you know they're huge moments and they make a great play it's it's the everyday like you
54:31
turn a double play you know or you hit a home run and you're up ten runs already like you're
54:38
tipping something like it for me it's the moments and it's the moments that are important
54:45
that allow the emotion to come through and people to be okay with it and part of me thinks
54:51
that gosh we just play so many games that most people understand that each game and
54:58
itself is not that important maybe there's one moment of every game that is really a big
55:02
moment and usually those moments happen in the early innings because a lot of I mean rarely
55:08
games end up coming down to the last now you know but when they do those are the exciting
55:13
games and that's when the emotion really starts to come out so I'm I'm fine with emotions
55:18
I think it's I think it's probably good for baseball but like you I think it needs to happen
55:23
the right situations and baseball as a whole this doesn't provide a whole lot of big moments
55:30
for the emotions to come out in a way that makes any sense unlike a lot of other sports
55:35
you know right I'm fine with emotions as well but I'm kind of from the Barry Sanders old
55:39
school like I scored a touchdown tossed the ball of the referee and move on with your day
55:44
but I especially when I see kids because I've got a one and a half year old and another boy
55:47
on the way you know I'm gonna you know encourage them to play baseball and those different things
55:51
they have to play sports they just get to pick which ones but it's kind of that thing is like
55:55
if I see my seven year old like hit a single and if he starts if he pulls a gold chain
56:01
out of his pocket and throws it over the top and like starts doing a dance I'm gonna yank
56:05
him off that field so fast like I might leave him at the field I might just hang him up
56:10
on the fence and leave him there for a night like it just absolutely the thought of it
56:13
just drives me insane but now Mark I know we're kind of winding towards the end here
56:17
I want to get some snap answers to you are from you about some some baseball related questions
56:23
right I'm gonna make you pick some of your favorites here but we're just gonna go snap
56:26
and if I'm interested in your question I are your answer rather I'm gonna ask you kind of
56:30
a follow-up but let's just kind of launch into this I think you'll do just fine all right
56:34
in your opinion this is all in your opinion so you can't be wrong unless you are wrong
56:37
and then I will point it out to you but who is the best position player in baseball right
56:42
now oh gosh my snap answers want Soto and I know we've talked about him but yeah I think
56:52
defense offense like I mean he's phenomenal like from every pitcher that I've talked to
57:00
or heard of that space and he's like he's the hardest out in baseball okay I thought you
57:05
were gonna say trout which would have been the correct answer so you're over one let's
57:08
get in the next who is the best pitcher in baseball right now best pitcher in baseball
57:19
let me actually change it let me actually change it on you okay if you had to have another
57:23
pitcher win a game a start like right now who's that picture gonna be to like save your life
57:30
right so not just the guy with the best stuff or the guy you know with the biggest contract
57:34
who is the best pitcher right now when it comes down to the nitty gritty gosh I gotta go I
57:40
gotta go with with the organization that's right my side of my checks Zach Wheeler hundred
57:47
percent like I think what he did this year is phenomenal over Garrett Cole over Max Scherz
57:53
or who would have been my pick like Zach Wheeler yeah I think so all right I will let the Phillies
57:58
know that you're a great public relations asset for them next one here if you could pitch against
58:04
any baseball player that's ever lived who would it be um Ted Williams okay white Ted I mean
58:16
one he's one of the best hitters of all time so being able to face the best is you know and
58:23
and you could probably make a lot of a lot of arguments is why other people are better
58:29
and there probably are but I just I think I have a lot of respect for Ted Williams in
58:34
his career and just I just know he's like a high character guy or he was a high character
58:40
guy as well so I don't know that's first first answer Ted Williams Teddy ballgame Teddy ballgame
58:47
okay if you could pitch to any catcher that ever lived and whether they they're playing
58:53
now or whether they've ever played what would be the one catcher you would have loved to
58:57
throw to yada or Molina I was gonna say if you said anybody else I was gonna tell you
59:10
you were wrong but yada or Molina so I'm gonna make you give me follow-up so why I mean one
59:16
he's I think he's gonna go down as the best defensive catcher in all of baseball history
59:21
like and he probably already is like I don't I don't think that's there's really too much
59:26
argument around that I've heard from like young guys that have [inaudible] him like coming
59:31
up it's like dude I don't even have to think I just like he just puts the number and that's
59:37
like part of part of the fun of pitching is like figuring out how to get these guys out
59:41
but it's like yada his instincts are so incredible that it's like you don't as a pitch you don't
59:47
even have to you just throw like throw whatever he's putting down he's gonna tell you to shake
59:53
to was like you like it's a mindless game at that point you're just like all right think
59:58
up the glove throw it there and probably gonna have some success you know very good all right
1:00:04
next one here who is the most underrated baseball player of all time underrated yeah oh my gosh
1:00:12
this was a tough one because you got to think about all the players ever but who's the most
1:00:15
underrated baseball player ever I don't like these snap sorry you got to deal with a smart
1:00:22
guy let's go most underrated baseball player ever here let me give you mine and that'll
1:00:31
give you a little bit actually time to think my most underrated ever again kind of a little
1:00:35
bit of a homer is stand mutual because when you look at his career and his numbers and
1:00:40
how he performed if he if his career had taken place in New York or Boston like he would
1:00:46
be talked about like Ted Williams has talked about like go to Majos talked about because
1:00:50
he's right there in line he's a top 10 player ever but you don't really hear people talk
1:00:54
about him as much so that would be my most underrated gosh like it's still I think it's
1:01:00
still like hard for me to think so I'm not I'm honestly not a great baseball historian
1:01:06
but I mean stem usual he's a he's a Hall of Famer right yeah of course okay yeah we'll
1:01:18
circle back we'll circle back I'm gonna this is the second time I've thrown you a lifeline
1:01:21
but that's okay I'm gonna let you flounder just a little bit more we'll get to some easy
1:01:24
ones this is probably easiest question I'm gonna ask you all day how much better are
1:01:30
the St. Louis Cardinals than the Philadelphia Phillies because we know that they are but
1:01:35
but like how big is the gap like you know it's not as big as as a lot of St. Louis fans
1:01:43
but there's still a gap when you're winning how what's the winning streak this year is
1:01:50
like 17 games or something yeah I think it was 17 games and then 11 World Series titles
1:01:55
second most ever okay by the way I know you're a huge Cardinals fan like when you're talking
1:01:59
about David Fries I was at game six in 2011 are you serious yeah I was there I don't know
1:02:05
this yeah he was he was in college at Washington St. Louis playing basketball and so I came out
1:02:13
like literally it was like a Tuesday or Wednesday night or something like that I came out and
1:02:17
hung out with them for like two days and we went to the game it was like oh my gosh the
1:02:22
best game in the history of baseball I was like I told my brother it was like the only
1:02:26
way I enjoy a World Series game was that is if I'm playing it yeah there's no way it's
1:02:32
game seven and week one should like even that even then it's like so yeah that's the most
1:02:37
insane game I've ever seen that's crazy that you were there alright next one here what is
1:02:41
the greatest baseball movie ever all right cool yeah that was easy we don't have to spend
1:02:48
time on it it's it's easily number one can get out here with Major League and all that
1:02:51
other stuff yeah all right who is your personal favorite pitcher of all time no one Ryan 100%
1:02:58
okay so why not mine would be Randy Johnson why is going Ryan your favorite it's a Texas
1:03:02
guy he's hard worker throws hard I loved watching old clips of him when I was growing up and
1:03:12
like yeah this guy just doesn't he doesn't care about anything except just shove it right
1:03:17
now and I love that mentality I tried to channel that a little bit college and stuff and then
1:03:25
I got a chance to beat him he was a special advisor to the Ashley Spindle manager when
1:03:29
I was with the Astros he sat in a few bullpen I got a bit of a sex it was one of the coolest
1:03:35
experiences for me just because he was a childhood idol for you know for baseball obviously here
1:03:41
I mean one of the best careers as a pitcher for sure for sure all right who's your favorite
1:03:46
position player of all time I mean my favorite I got again go with hometown Craig Visio because
1:03:54
he was an after life Hall of Famer and he played so many positions I thought he was just
1:04:02
so versatile I mean he was virtually there but as someone like you know Texans have
1:04:08
a lot of pride in their state it's like seeing seeing a guy like Craig Visio like he became
1:04:15
the pride of Houston through his entire career and I mean he was like every child that I grew
1:04:23
up with and you know and little league and all that stuff like we were always wearing
1:04:27
Visio jersey so all right now we're getting down to the brass tacks here okay who is the
1:04:33
greatest pitcher of all time not your favorite even though it can be the same one but who is
1:04:38
the single greatest pitcher to ever throw I mean I have to I mean I have to say Nolan Ryan and I
1:04:48
I think it'd be hard to argue against that I think there are a few other in the mix but
1:04:55
I mean I got to stick with Nolan I mean career leader in strikeouts
1:04:59
seven no hitters it's like pretty pretty phenomenal and he pitched about a billion innings and he
1:05:07
did it for a long time yeah and I think that was the coolest thing he pitched in parts of I think
1:05:12
four different decades it's crazy yeah I mean just yeah yeah all right so last one on this vein
1:05:20
here but who is the greatest baseball player of all time overall I mean everyone says Babe Ruth
1:05:30
I'm sure just you know I think I think we're we're seeing some incredible baseball players and
1:05:37
I don't know why I didn't think about you know Mike Trout because earlier because he is probably
1:05:44
the best player in baseball right now even though they're never in the playoffs I mean show hey of
1:05:50
what he did this year was unbelievable yeah I mean I'll take the easy route and say Babe Ruth
1:06:00
yeah it's kind of an easy answer if you were to say who's the greatest position player ever
1:06:05
you you would have to ignore Babe Ruth's pitching stats I'd probably say someone like Willie Mays
1:06:10
at that point because as a power hitter as an average hitter as a center fielder yeah he was
1:06:15
probably the greatest but you know when you talk about the greatest ever it's like Babe Ruth's
1:06:19
kind of the consensus you know yeah yeah and then if you talk about hitter and I'm I'd actually be
1:06:25
curious we don't have to talk about it now but I'd say very much might be the best hit oh no why
1:06:31
we're rounding towards the end here why would you bring him up he's the worst thing to happen to
1:06:35
baseball since pine tar what are you talking about pure hitting ability he injected steroids
1:06:42
into his forehead so that he could hit the ball way farther and I get out of here with all these
1:06:47
arguments oh well but he was a Hall of Famer before he started juicing was he do we know that for sure
1:06:53
the problem is he turned and he turned into in the incredible Hulk at some point and it also
1:06:58
doesn't help that the guy was an absolute jerk come on Mark I agree I agree I'm not trying to say
1:07:04
anything about his character or the decisions he made I'm just saying but what and yeah he definitely
1:07:10
had some help but what are you talking about wasn't like he got corrective lenses this guy
1:07:18
started injecting crap into his butt and then he started launching baseball 700 feet I'd say
1:07:24
that's pretty good health right there oh my gosh I will say this Mark McGuire pretty much ruined my
1:07:29
childhood he stole my innocence from me and I'll never forgive him for it but you know what before
1:07:33
we get off into another tangent I blow another gasket I got one more question for you Mark yeah
1:07:37
typically at the end of my show I do a little segment called what would you say to somebody
1:07:42
that said and then I fill in the blank with just this one statement okay but I'm not going to do a
1:07:46
bunch of them with you I'm just going to do one because it's it's kind of the ultimate question
1:07:50
here so what would you say to someone that said Mark Appel will eventually pitch in the major leaks
1:07:58
I would say thanks for the belief and I think there's been a lot of people you know if
1:08:07
that was said to me in college to be like well yeah sure but a lot's happened since then and so
1:08:13
you know I graduated in 2013 that's when I signed it's been you know it's been almost nine years since
1:08:20
that's happened and and I've been out of baseball for like four of them and so it feels it feels
1:08:28
a little bit like I'm an underdog at this point and but at the end of the day I think one of the
1:08:35
things that I've learned is that like man my identity is not found in and whether I'm playing
1:08:41
the big ones or not I still love to but if I don't like I don't I don't see my life or my career
1:08:48
or anything like that as a as a failure but yeah I think people that say hey Mark Mark is going to
1:08:55
play it's like it's really cool to see people still believe in me for sure all right well that's a
1:09:02
great place to leave it and thanks for all your time on all these questions but that's all for me
1:09:05
is there anything else you want to get off your chest no no I I really enjoyed it yeah appreciate
1:09:12
appreciate you and what you're doing and it's great talking to you today yeah thanks for making me
1:09:17
angry multiple times come on Mark we got to be better than Mark Appel thank you so much for
1:09:20
coming on Daunton life a man's podcast thanks for having me all right there you go guys I hope you
1:09:26
enjoyed my time with Mark Appel I really really enjoyed everything that we talked about on this
1:09:29
particular episode but before we let you guys go we are going to do a quick resilience boost add
1:09:33
on Daunton life our mission is equipping men to push back darkness and specifically we do that by
1:09:37
providing content like those podcasts that helps you forge spiritual mental and physical resilience
1:09:41
so I've got a couple of links for you number one we spent a little bit of time I wish we could
1:09:45
have spent more time on it but you know it's going to be good for you guys to read through it but
1:09:47
it's the tweet thread that he posted in September of this year that went viral but then also I posted
1:09:52
the article and it's called why Mark Appel perhaps the biggest bus in MLB history is stepping away at
1:09:58
26 years old because I think that's a great article to read because this is an article from the past
1:10:01
I've you know this would have been written several years ago and you know he's learned so much by that
1:10:05
time but just reading about where this guy was and the scrutiny that he was under and for him to have
1:10:10
that perspective is a really cool thing all right guys thanks for listening this episode we do
1:10:13
appreciate it wherever you're listening to this please subscribe rate and leave us a positive review
1:10:17
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1:10:21
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1:10:30
keep more content like this coming your way just go to www.undaunted.life and we also want to thank
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the band augustburns read for allowing us to use their music for our content the entorato track on
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this podcast is our song cutting the ties which is off their tenth anniversary re-recording of
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their album leveler the links are in the description i'm your host kyle tomsen remember keep pushing
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back darkness keep forging spiritual mental and physical resilience keep seeking the lion of juda
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and the fire is out you will be revived!