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This is Undaunted Life a Man's Podcast. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it.
0:56
Kyle Lucas, welcome to my house. What's up, man? Yeah, I've been wanting to do this for a while,
1:01
actually. I sure appreciate you having me. Yeah, we're going to get into your whole story,
1:05
but people that are watching on YouTube and rumble might be wondering, okay, that is an
1:08
enormous box. That's on the table. And I've got one of my hats, but like whenever we talked about
1:14
getting you up here and getting you here on the show and all that, we talked about you basically
1:18
checking one of my boxes of something I've always wanted my entire life. And that's my very own
1:23
cowboy hat. And you've got people because you're in the rodeo biz, and we're going to get to that
1:27
in a second. So is this it? Is this my? That's it. Yeah, we chatted about a little bit off camera,
1:33
and this is actually, we got a mutual friend Dale Brisby. Yeah. He was on your show and you're on
1:38
his. And this same company got Dale a hat, and then Dale gave it to Joe Rogan when he was on Joe's
1:46
show. This is more of the summer edition. This is the straw hat like we mentioned, but we'll get
1:52
your felt hat from him eventually. Okay, sounds good. Well, I'm going to trade you my, you know,
1:56
I mean, Brandon bills, this is a dope hat by the time you guys are listening to the season,
1:59
probably be sold out. But there's your hat. So that is probably the most expensive and like cool
2:04
side that we've made because they've redesigned this band as their X gen hat or whatever. And we
2:08
don't have any like official relationship with branded bills. We just really like their stuff.
2:11
That's why we keep doing it for people. And so more sure, wicking and like water beads off of it
2:15
and all that. But yeah, I mean, so how do you like present it to me? Like, okay, yeah, let's do
2:21
like the full on rodeo presentation. Well, like you said, you've never had one now. So we're a
2:26
little bit nervous on the sizing. Yeah, so I took one of those like, you know, measuring things and
2:30
just like, and I did it probably five times just to be like, okay, is this spot? Do I have a lump
2:35
back there and all that? Yeah, I probably do. Well, let's try it on. All right, worst case,
2:40
it doesn't fit. We get another one. Guys, you think of that, baby? Look at that.
2:46
All right. Now, I was just a particular shape before I go throwing it on. It's your, it's your
2:51
cowboy shape, you know, like, you'll be able to fool some people if you're not a real cowboy.
2:55
And I'm not a real cowboy. Make sure, make sure you put it on the always got to have the bow in the
2:59
back. I was in the back. I did at least know that. So here we go. Thanks. I think that fits my friend.
3:06
Looks pretty good. What do you think? You got me fooled. Look at that. I got to look at myself in
3:10
the car. Let's go. This is a camera. Yeah, that's my camera right there. Look at there. I'm
3:17
official now. And Americans been so good with, with the fit and everything. Shout out to American.
3:22
Look at that. Boom. All right. That's awesome. I don't know about you. I'm keeping this on the
3:28
entire unit. You don't have to put my hat on. I'll keep this one. I'll get there the entire time.
3:32
But no, so we, I mean, we've kind of teeted up a couple of times. I'm trying to remember how,
3:36
how did you and I get connected? Because I remember we got connected on Instagram and then you ended
3:40
up coming to Faith Bible and Edmund for a little bit. But like, was, did somebody put us in touch or
3:45
how did that happen? Well, I kind of stumbled across you. So I had been living in Luther, a
3:50
little town east of here. That's close to that. Yep. Exactly. And it's actually a famous town now.
3:55
They had the Tulsa King movie and they actually shot a scene rate in our town at the little cafe.
4:00
But anyways, I was at the gym just south of there and just going through YouTube looking at some
4:06
stuff. I think it was a, I believe it was a Mike Glover, a big Mike Glover fan. He's, yeah,
4:11
he's, he's an interesting guy. I can listen to him for hours. He's so articulate with his
4:15
words and stuff. And it was a, I believe it was like a 15 minute clip with you and him.
4:20
You had your camo. Yeah. I think I clicked on it because you had camo on and talking about like
4:26
something, something about being a biblical Christian man. Yeah. So I clicked on it and then
4:32
ended up listening to the whole thing. And you mentioned something about being from Edmond.
4:36
So I just reached out. I found you on Instagram reached out. And I don't even know where the first
4:41
place we met was. I think we met at church like before Sunday school. Yeah, I might have asked you
4:46
about, because we'd been going to a church here and, and we liked it, but didn't love it. And I
4:51
kind of questioned you about that and a few other things. And you, you invited me there and then
4:55
you invited me somewhere that night too, I think. Yeah, you came to fight club. So I got, I do got
5:00
to tell you, and then then I got some questions about this hack because I got excited and moved on.
5:04
So here's the thing. I say this all time, Kyle, is dudes, I will invite 20 or 25 guys, maybe 15
5:12
or 20 guys for every one guy that will come and try Jiu Jitsu. And our fight club group on Sunday
5:17
nights, it's about as, it's about as welcoming of a group as you can get, because it's not an
5:24
official class with an official, you know, school, that's got a sign of waiver. And yeah, you got,
5:30
here's your professor and do what he says and all that. It's, it's more casual. I've invited you
5:34
that morning and you came that night, like, and you would, you had never done Jiu Jitsu before,
5:39
but because of kind of what you've been doing your entire life and like using your body your
5:42
entire life and doing some rodeo stuff, like you moved pretty well. Like whenever you and I rolled,
5:47
like I think I was a, I think it was probably a purple belt. Yeah, it was purple belt at the
5:50
time, whenever you and I rolled, like I can tell you just knew how to like move your body a little
5:54
bit kind of like whenever you go with a, you know, a guy that's wrestled a little bit, like they've
5:58
never done Jiu Jitsu into some of the, yeah, but you can just tell, okay, they understand base,
6:02
they understand putting this here, putting this there. Like, and so, you know, you move pretty well,
6:06
but yeah, like, I guess what even made you want to come because like most people don't know how
6:12
to spell Jiu Jitsu, they don't know what to wear when they get there. They're like, oh my gosh,
6:15
for all these guys going to like, you know, try and beat me up. Like, I don't even know if like,
6:17
why did you show up? I'm kind of, I don't know if I know how to spell it correctly. Give me three
6:21
tries, I might get it and I didn't know what to wear either. I think I asked you, but I've always
6:26
been interested. I've been a UFC guy ever since I was a kid. Me and my dad watched UFC and loved
6:30
it and followed it all and beat up my, get beat up by my brother and I beat up my sister growing up,
6:38
just wrestling and stuff. And that's, she's, she's pretty tough, probably tougher, my brother now,
6:42
but no, but I've always wanted to do it. And it was a, it was a good excuse to, you know, and I,
6:47
once I'm done rodeo and I'm going to do it a lot more too, it's not like something I just did a
6:52
couple times with you guys. I mean, I, I'm still craving it to this day, you know, and it was,
6:57
it was quite a, I mean, I was, I wrestle farm animals for a living and they don't care. So you
7:03
get kind of beat up and, and you get, you get kind of hard in a sense to where, you know,
7:08
there's a difference like we've talked about the gym guy and the, the guy that's living it.
7:13
There's a, I want to say, I don't want to say the gym guys are softer because they're not, but,
7:18
but there's a, it's, it's two different worlds. And yeah, getting to, getting to be with you guys
7:25
and rolling with you guys and getting beat up. And then I was in my bed that night laying there
7:30
hurting. I was hurting like worse than when I'd been roping in time, but it was like, it was like
7:36
an equivolation to when Goggins won that one big race. Yeah. And he was in his shower and the water
7:41
was going on him and there's all kinds of filth and blood and stuff coming off of him. And, you know,
7:46
and I'm, I'm not saying it was that extreme by any means, but it was almost the same feeling,
7:51
you know, like I just got beat up by a bunch of grown men and felt like I was getting sharper,
7:56
you know, and that's, that's something that I think maybe almost every man needs.
8:00
Well, that's why I encourage you guys to get in there because moat almost every single man,
8:05
except for those that train, they completely overestimate their ability to fight. Right. Well,
8:10
some men would like I would never fight, but you just think, okay, I'm tall, I'm big, I'm athletic,
8:15
I what, whatever your thing is like for different guys, but you will just literally fall to the
8:20
level of your training. Like I remember Gordon Ryan, who's the greatest no key jujitsu fighter of
8:24
all time. He was asked on a podcast about, Hey, have you ever been in any street fights? He's like,
8:28
I've been in a bunch of street fights. He's like, well, how does that go as a jujitsu guy? He's like,
8:31
he's like, when you fight someone who doesn't know how to fight, like it's like, it's like
8:36
messing with a child. And so he's like, I fake a punch. I shoot a takedown. They basically just
8:41
fall over the moment you touch their legs because they don't know how to base out our sprawl game
8:45
over and then yeah, and then you go right to mount and you elbow them until they're unconscious or
8:49
until they try to turn over and they end up giving you their, their back and their neck and you choke
8:53
them unconscious and you just get up and you leave. And people are like, well, truly not because,
8:57
you know, you look back on like the 80s karate movies and you're like, Oh yeah, all these guys,
9:00
you know, 10 guys coming at him at once and they just do one roundhouse kick and knock all of them
9:04
out. And it's just like, jujitsu has just been proven over such a long time. You talk about UFCs.
9:09
I mean, those first UFCs, hoist Gracie going in there 170 pounds and just smashing these huge
9:14
rotted out dudes. And so it's like, jujitsu really is like a superpower because you're learning
9:19
how to control another human being against their will. And the reason why most men don't try it
9:24
is because of that, because they don't want another man to hold them down against their will. But I
9:28
try to tell these guys, I was like, look, dude, if one guy can hold you down to can rape you. And so
9:32
it's like, why? I mean, I didn't make up that quote. But it's just like, come on, like,
9:36
you get beat up, you get smashed, you get controlled by another human. And then your way of dealing
9:41
with that is, oh, but that's never going to happen to me in real life. I'll see red bodies are starting
9:45
to drop. Like, I just don't, I just don't get it. And I mean, yeah, yeah, like even give someone
9:52
some boxing gloves and say, all right, do what you think that you do on the street. Here's a 14 year
9:57
old kid that's wrestled his whole life, did some jujitsu. And he's going to throw you to the ground
10:02
and dummy you instantly. That's what happened to me that second time I went 14 year old kid. And I
10:07
was like, all right, surely, surely I'll be able to take him. And no, but he'd been wrestling his
10:13
whole life. And just like, you know, just like if I had him out there trying to flank a calf, you
10:17
know, there's all kinds of techniques and maneuvers and shortcuts and all kinds of stuff.
10:23
Well, and yeah, I mean, I tell guys all time too is again, you've all the level of your training,
10:27
but also those really fancy stand up styles that are really fun to train. Right. So maybe you're
10:32
doing kung fu or wing chung or karate or something like that. Those can be really fun when you smack
10:38
the pads or break your little boards and all that stuff. Like it's real cute. Like it is really,
10:42
really cute. The problem is, is if someone like me, and again, I'm not high level, I didn't wrestle
10:48
in college, like I'm a brown belt in jujitsu, which means I'm sufficient. But I mean, there are dudes
10:52
that have been black belts for three times as long as I've been training altogether. Right. So I'm
10:56
not high level. I'm not world class. But like, if you don't knock me out with that first punch,
11:01
that first combo or that first kick or that first knee or something like that, and I close the
11:05
distance, none of your techniques work when I've now that I've grabbed you, and literally zero of
11:10
them work when you're on your back. And so if you can't keep me from putting you on your back,
11:14
then that's like, and that's not me being like, oh, bravado and all that. It's like, look,
11:19
I've had my butt kicked plenty. So I kind of have a pretty good idea of what it takes.
11:23
But someone who's like, yeah, if because you can get a lucky punch, you can connect right on the
11:28
button and knock me unconscious. And so if you and I were fighting or if I'm fighting with someone
11:32
like that, I don't want the score to be even. I don't want them to have that chance. So I'm going
11:36
to like change levels. And I would take that too, don't you? Yeah, close that distance like,
11:41
like that. Yeah, you have to. So let's get back to this hat. I'm going to take it off,
11:45
and I'm putting it right back on. So explain to me, because so we got a lot of different ways.
11:49
So I literally have been watching guys on TikTok that are like shaping and forming hats and they've
11:54
got their shape in the whole thing and they're explaining it. And I don't know what any of the
11:56
stuff is because I just didn't grow up with it. And we got this little symbol here on the back. So
12:00
explain to me what all's going on here with this. Yeah. So the top, I believe it's just called your
12:04
classic cattleman. But there's like a, there's a couple different cattleman styles. Like this is
12:09
the custom, like there was a guy shaping that last night for you putting hands on it whereas
12:14
your luddier store bought are like, and they get in a form and they're steamed and they're
12:20
pressed down. So it's not, it's not a true custom. And so they're steaming this literally molding it.
12:25
Yeah, they steam it right there. And mold it. Yeah. And I, I give them kind of a picture of my hat.
12:30
And I don't even know if I send them a picture of you, but I might have just to see if they could
12:35
tell something. Maybe you had a crooked head is no telling. Yeah, probably. And then I think the
12:42
real cowboy kind of has it cranked down in the front, you know, I don't know if it's for aerodynamics.
12:48
Yeah, probably for aerodynamics. And then what's this little symbol there on the back? I'll try
12:51
to do it on that positive times. Don't quote me on this, but it's the brand of the owners.
12:58
You know, hate me for not remembering the name, but really great family. You know,
13:02
I've heard a lot about them. My good friend, Tough Cooper, sponsored by them, been with them
13:06
forever and just had nothing but good things to say. And I've been the same way with them too.
13:10
They ever since I got to have a partnership with them, they just been great, keep sending me hats.
13:15
I don't know. It's kind of one of those things you can never have too many hats.
13:19
Well, that's the thing is I got about 40 hats like this. And so like, because of being a baseball
13:25
guy, like the new era 5950, like that was, that was my hat. And so, but the thing is with hats too,
13:31
because I tried to ask like, okay, so how do you do even do sizing? Because like, you know, in a
13:35
new era 5950 hat fitted hat, I'm a seven and a half. But if I go into a store, I can go to the
13:40
little rack that's got, you know, five, seven and a halfs on it. I can try all five of them,
13:46
and they all fit different. There's one that's just going to fit a little better.
13:49
Yeah, that makes sense. And probably the way you're, you wear your bill too, I'm, I'm guessing,
13:54
like if I were to put this on because it's flatter, you know, it fit a lot tighter than if it was
13:58
wrapped around my head. But obviously, yeah, do the full measurement around your head, like you did,
14:03
like if you're measuring your waist or something and seemed to, I don't know if it feels good or
14:08
not, but it looks like it fit. Well, it needs to feel like it's not going to fly off your head.
14:12
Yeah, exactly. That's part of it. You got to be able to suck it down. And I told them, guys,
14:16
that too, if you see in the top and then cattlemen, there's little dance. Yeah, I made sure they put
14:21
the little dance in it because then you can suck it down to where that the creases aren't hitting
14:25
you in the head. So it's right. It's extra cowboy that one. Well, I've seen you whenever you've
14:30
been doing your thing, how you'll pull it down, like all the way. So I've kind of watched it. So
14:33
we do need to get into that. So the funny thing about you is, yeah, you're like a real cowboy,
14:38
you're like a professional cowboy, but you're also Canadian. And so it's like, and I don't know if
14:42
you've heard this, but maybe by the time this is released, y'all will be our 51st state. Like,
14:46
you know, maybe, you know, your new prime minister will end up just being the governor side. I don't
14:50
really know for sure. But I got to be honest, I did not know there were cowboys up there. I just
14:54
thought it was like hockey, Mounties, polar bears, polar bears, like, and then just a bunch of liberals.
14:59
And so like, I guess describe what it was like growing up in Canada and kind of getting into this,
15:04
because yeah, I mean, you've been doing the same thing, essentially your whole life. Yeah, there's,
15:07
there's danger a lot of cowboys up there. I don't know what our, what our beef production is up there,
15:12
but we have a lot of beef and there's bumper stickers. I love Alberta beef. So you know, it's,
15:17
you know, it's strong. But yeah, just, just growing up being a cowboy. My dad was a,
15:22
I believe he made the Canadian finals 24 times, which is like the Canadian Super Bowl and then the,
15:28
the world Super Bowl is a national finals for some, some of your viewers that might not be
15:32
first on rodeo. So that's held in Las Vegas. The, the national finals is, and my dad made it there
15:39
six times. So that would have been, that would have been the 80s to 90s. I believe it used to be
15:44
right here in Oklahoma City back then. So I think maybe the first year or two that my dad made the
15:49
Super Bowl, the NFR was in Oklahoma City and then it got moved to, to Vegas. So, so I was around it,
15:56
my whole life grew up doing it. Had a rope in my hand and a soother in my mouth, you know, like I,
16:02
maybe I was too old to have a soother, but I, but I did either way have that rope in my hand at a
16:08
very young age and then term professional 2013. And I think it was just kind of following my dad's
16:15
footsteps. Like you said, maybe Canada is not as well known for, for rodeo. And I don't know if it
16:20
was back then more because there were more guys competing at the national finals. And in my event,
16:26
it's specifically there were about three or four guys making it every year. And then now,
16:30
I believe we had, we've had one make the national finals in our event in the last,
16:34
might have been early 2000s was the last one. So, so maybe we're going to bring it back to where
16:39
you guys know that there are cowboys in Canada. Okay. Well, well, I mean, professional cowboys.
16:42
We'll keep paying attention. So what was your, what was your dad's event that he did?
16:45
Yeah, for open, okay, downer open. Same as me. Yep. He team roped as well. Almost made
16:50
the finals in the team are open one year as well. So he, he was a little bit of an all-around guy.
16:54
Used to steer wrestle. I'm sure you know what steer wrestling is. That seemed like something
16:57
you'd be into man. I'll try. I'll give it a go. You just let me know where to go.
17:00
Yeah, you got to jump off a large farm animal onto a medium-sized farm animal going 40 miles
17:06
an hour. Yeah, wrestling to the grounds. That seemed like it'd be up your alley.
17:10
Yeah, that would be a lot, a lot more fun compared to some of that stuff. Now, when, I can't remember
17:14
if it was when I was on Dale Show or when he was on mine, we literally did it the same morning.
17:17
We just like switched chairs or whatever. But he said there's kind of like the two sides of
17:21
the arena. And so one side is where you got like the team are open and the steer wrestling time
17:25
for open. Yep. Okay. And then on the other side is basically all the bull riding kind of thing.
17:29
Okay. So what, what'd you call them? So the time ease because we're a timed event, you know,
17:34
we nod our head. It's called a barrier. I'll get into that later maybe. But when the barrier breaks,
17:40
it's a rope that goes across. There's a little flag on it. Once that breaks, they start the time.
17:44
And then in the calf are open when we throw our hands up, it stops the time. Steer wrestling,
17:49
like we said, when the steer is laying flat on its side, they stop the time. So, so that's why they
17:54
call it a timed event where there's a rough where the roughies on the other eye and on the buck and
17:58
shoot side. They're they're the rough stock event, you know, the the buck and horses, the buck and
18:03
bulls. So it's the it's the time he's in the roughies and there is kind of two sides to it.
18:07
Not as it's not as strange as probably Dale makes it seem like like it's not like there's
18:13
two different groups and we hate each other. You know, it's it's pretty cool that way. And he
18:18
he's he makes it pretty funny. Okay. So time he's a roughies, but you know, like for your dad, like,
18:24
did he ever try any of the like bronch riding or any of the bull riding or all that? Yeah. Have you
18:28
ever tried it? So he did. I know he wrote some bulls. I seen old picture him with some old leather
18:33
shafts and he's he used to ride bulls a little bit. But I don't know. I don't know exactly why he
18:38
stepped away from that. Like he's he's a pretty good sized guy in today's standard as far as the
18:43
calf ropers go. Like, I don't know if the cattle are getting smaller, but back then they used to be
18:48
like 300 plus pounds was really common. So him being 51190 pounds, he was considered one of the
18:55
little shrimps. And I say that because of the the rough stock guys are known to be smaller guys.
19:01
Yeah, gonna be small and agile, you know, and so your typical rough stock guy, a 511 guys
19:07
pretty small. And then I'm sure back then the rough stock guys were even bigger. So I don't know
19:12
why he he stuck with calf rope and and chose that but seemed to be his passion. And he was he was
19:18
really good at it. So what about for you? So because because I did talk to Dale's because, you know,
19:22
Dale did the bull riding and he also did what would be the saddle bronch. Yeah, saddle bronch.
19:27
And then he was a bull fighter as well. And so like he was, you know, he did all that stuff.
19:32
Yeah, I mean, because he's the greatest bull rider of all time, according to his bell buckle.
19:36
But so for you, like, have you ever like tried it? Did that ever kind of appeal to you? Yeah.
19:40
So I was really fortunate. I think it's the coolest part about my dad and I was relationship.
19:44
I was able to go with him to the rodeos when he was still professional. And it would have been
19:49
2006 was his last year. And he made the Canadian finals that year. And just because I was going
19:55
to all the rodeos, I decided to start entering the steer riding. It's just kind of like they
20:00
have it down here, but it's not as popular. Like in Canada, it's it's called boy steer riding,
20:04
but there's girls that do it as well. Some girls that are really good, surprisingly. And
20:10
so it's, I believe it's 12 to 15 year old get to go. And you enter the pro rodeos,
20:16
you get to go to all the pro rodeos, not compete as much for as much money, but but you're right
20:21
there on the same stage as them also. I was able to do that and ride some steers. I wrote at the
20:25
panocha stampede, the Calgary stampede, maybe you've heard of the Calgary stampede. So I got to ride
20:31
at some really cool places. And I got bucked off and stepped on a lot and broke some bones.
20:35
And I decided that maybe rope and rope and was maybe more my calling and maybe a little bit more
20:41
of a longevity sport. Yeah, you don't really see guys. I mean, even looking like a guy like JB Mooney,
20:47
I mean, you he got, he was tough as nails, right? You know, maybe the best best in the world at
20:52
different times. But then that one bull that just and even hear him talk about that one bull that
20:58
ended his career, he said it's a nicest bull. Like it's not one of those bulls. That's just really,
21:02
really mean. Like he literally has that bull in one of his pastures as a pet. And he can walk
21:06
right up to it and pet it and all that. But you just get bucked off at right just the right angle,
21:11
you fall at just the right angle and then snap. And then your doctors basically tell you, hey,
21:15
the next time you fall wrong, it's not it's going to hurt. It's you're going to die. And then you're
21:20
like, you know, you're looking at your wife looking at your kids and you're like, okay.
21:23
And so you kind of stop before all that happens before you had to kind of make that call. But okay.
21:28
So is there any like beef between no pun intended between like Cowboys in Canada,
21:34
like rodeo guys from Canada and then rodeo guys from America? And then the other thing that a lot
21:38
of people don't really realize like Brazilians, especially like bull riders, like they've got a
21:42
ton of people that that compete as well. So is there like a where you're from kind of a thing?
21:46
Or is it really not that big deal? I don't know. I think there is in a sense, I think,
21:51
as you know, and like looking at the movies and stuff, Canadians are pretty nice. Like, yeah,
21:56
I notice it more so when I go up to Canada, I was raised up there and used to everyone nice
22:02
and helping each other, not that they don't down here, but it's a little bit more clicky, I guess.
22:07
And it's it's that way for a reason. You know, it's it's professionals down here,
22:11
like guys that are rodeo and out of Texas and going around the world, they're their professionals.
22:16
They're doing it for a living. They're doing it to feed their families. Whereas I'd say the Canadian
22:20
guys that are only going to Canada, they might be making a good living at it, but they're just going
22:25
out on the weekends, you know, they're they're back Sunday night. They get to work their their
22:31
regular job or whatever they do farm ranch until Friday they go to the rodeo and then they're back
22:35
again. Whereas like we're getting ready to leave here and I probably won't be once I leave the end
22:41
of May, I probably won't be back home until end of September. But then that's straight into practice
22:47
for the finals of Canadian and the national finals, which are October, November, December.
22:52
So really there's no time off being a professional. So I don't I don't think there's a big beef
23:00
across the way. Like I said, because because the Canadians are so nice, it seems. I'm sure it's
23:06
like more so person to person than than country or even even event, you know, but I know like they
23:13
like to they like to make that look like it too on JB's documentary that he did, you know,
23:20
they're kind of beefing with the Brazilians and stuff. But I know once you get back behind
23:23
the buck and shoots, it's it's thanks or not like that. It's such a such a close knit group of guys.
23:29
Yeah, I mean, I can imagine it being that way. Like I'm I'm curious for you though, like,
23:33
okay, it's one thing to like follow in dad's footsteps and kind of do what dad did.
23:38
It's another thing to kind of emulate your dad as you grow up and you're doing certain things.
23:43
But at some point, like you're either good enough to be pro or you're not.
23:49
And you either want to go pro and pursue that as a career or you don't. And so like for you,
23:54
you clearly were good enough to go pro. But then like what for you made the decision to be like,
23:59
okay, I'm going to pursue this like as a career, I'm going to treat it not just as like a hobby or
24:04
just like, you know, because if you, you know, if you miss or something on the ranch as you're
24:08
trying to like rope a calf or something like that, like you can you can kind of get it back and do
24:12
all those different things like this is just a different deal. Like it's timed. It's like high
24:15
pressure. So I guess when did you realize, yeah, I've got, I've got some skill here and I want to
24:20
pursue it. So I keep talking about my dad, but it was such a, it's such an important part. He's,
24:27
he has a fencing company in Canada and break in between my transition of going to the amateur
24:34
rodeos and professional rodeos. I was doing some work for him. He'll probably laugh if he heard
24:38
this because he'll say he didn't work that much for me. But I got to a point where I was like,
24:43
dad, I want to be like this guy. I want to go make the NFR make all kinds of money. And he said,
24:48
well, that's perfectly fine. But you have to take this serious. You have to treat it like a job.
24:54
You can't just go, you know, out on the weekends like we were talking about and just go, I want to
25:02
say not enjoy it because you have to enjoy it to be able to do it. And I do enjoy it. And it's my
25:06
passion. But you have to take it to a, take it to a level to where then they call it a profession.
25:13
You got to eat, sleep and breathe it. And so I guess, because I don't really understand this
25:19
world, like, because I always liken things back to baseball, because that's what I've done, you know,
25:24
between baseball and jiu-jitsu, that's, that's what I've spent most of my time in my life doing.
25:28
So I kind of understand the differences in the gaps I kind of explained earlier with jiu-jitsu.
25:33
You can be a black belt, but the gap between a black belt and like a world-class world champion
25:38
black belt, like it's, it's enormous. The same thing in baseball, the best guy on your high school
25:44
baseball team might get a chance to play D1 in college. And the best guy on that D1 team might
25:51
get a chance to get drafted or play pro ball. But then there's levels to that. There's a ball,
25:56
there's rookie ball, there's a ball, there's high a ball, there's double A, there's triple A, and
26:01
then there's the show, then there's the major leagues. And so when you see a guy like a mic
26:05
trout or a Bryce Harper or a Manny Machado or a Nolan Aironado, like these guys that,
26:09
once they got up, they just stayed there and they were pros and been pros for over a decade,
26:13
it's just like, it's shocking how good you have to be to maintain that spot. So in your world and
26:20
calf rope and like, okay, what is the gap between, okay, here's a guy that would be, you know,
26:24
a solid hand on a ranch versus no, this guy has a chance to make some, make a good living doing this.
26:30
So it's cool you say that because it made me think of the, I think is in 2016, they tried
26:36
to make a transition to make rodeo more professional. Like, you know, there's NBA, MLB, we had the,
26:45
I believe it was the ERA was what they tried to go with. I don't even remember what was elite
26:50
rodeo association, something like that. And so it was all the professional, the big dogs,
26:56
the 1% guys, they kind of got together and tried to make it more professional to where,
27:01
like, still to this day, and it's, I don't know why it's like this, but like, we don't have any
27:07
salaries or anything, and we can go like we've got diamond tomorrow, there's 160 ropers and
27:12
there's 160 guys that can rope get or else they wouldn't enter, but there's only going to be,
27:17
you know, at the most 10 elite 1% guys that are actually there. So I think it's,
27:27
and around about way to answer your question, that's the difference in our sport is just,
27:33
you can be anyone and buy your car and go, but it dang sure takes that discipline, like you said,
27:40
to where every guy, I believe, like you said, I'm sure it's way easier to be a professional
27:50
calf roper and make the finals, but to be the Trevor Brazil's tough coopers, all those guys,
27:56
it's, it's dang sure tougher. But I don't, I don't know, it's, it's something I'm still trying to
28:03
navigate through and, and I'm able to get around those guys a bunch too, to where I can see what it
28:08
takes and we're dang sure gonna give them some hack this year. Well, that's okay. So I want to
28:13
talk about kind of where you sit. I even want to drill down a little bit more on, okay, so you
28:17
mentioned a couple of guys that are kind of like the tippy top type guys. So I can watch a guy like
28:23
a Shohei Otani, right? So let's just take him as a, as a hitter. The fact that he can pitch as a top
28:29
10 pitcher and be the best hitter in baseball at the same time, just doesn't even make any sense.
28:32
Same, like take a Bryce Harper, take a mic trout, take these guys that are like top of the heap.
28:37
I can watch them and know exactly what makes them, because again, even not now that you're a major
28:44
leaguer, right? So are you just a bench guy? Okay, are you utility guy that gets to play a few
28:49
games a week? Are you a full time starter? Are you an all star? Okay, are you an MVP caliber person
28:55
where you're going to win multiple MVPs over your career? And I can watch them in their approach
29:00
to the plate and know pretty much why they're successful more than some of the other guys.
29:05
It's how they approach the pitcher. It's how they guess certain pitches. It's hey, they weren't
29:10
trying to put this ball in play. They were literally trying to spoil this ball so that they could get
29:14
another pitch that they could drive. It's launch angle. It's all the things, right? But let's take
29:19
a guy that's like top 20, right? Because you talked about 160 guys get inner. So a top 20 guy guy
29:26
that's kind of like on the outskirts of top 20 versus a guy that's in that top three. What are
29:32
really going to be the differences? Does it come down to genetics? How tall you are? Does it come
29:37
down to how big? How strong you are? Is it all speed base? Is it just like razor sharp technique?
29:42
What is it? I think the number one thing that jumped out to me when you said that would be
29:45
consistency because there's guys all shaped sizes, colors, all kinds of stuff. But the
29:51
guys that are all stars, they're consistent. And there's one of every size. You got little
29:59
Shane Hanchey's 145, 50 pounds. And then you got Chad Mayfield, who's probably over 200 pounds.
30:08
So one end of the spectrum to the other. I think the thing that they share and that makes them
30:12
so great is dancher the consistency. Hey guys, real quick, a consistent question that I am asked
30:18
is Kyle, what is your diet? People want to know if I'm tracking macros or if I'm doing keto or
30:22
something like that. But I track one thing. I try to get one gram of high quality protein for every
30:27
pound of body weight. And so for me, I read meat every single day. Pretty much for lunch,
30:33
I eat a pound of red meat every single day to get over 100 grams of high quality protein. And
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promo code Kyle to get $25 off your first order. Okay, so let's talk about you then. So everyone's
32:02
got their thing. So again, I keep using the baseball example. There are guys that are just,
32:06
they're not great contact hitters, but they're great power hitters. So if they connect, it's
32:09
going to go a mile. Then you got guys that don't really have a whole lot of power. So they focus
32:13
more on getting good contact, putting the ball where the defenders aren't like that type of thing.
32:17
Like for you, what would you say are like, this is why I'm good. Like here are the things that I'm
32:22
really good at in terms of the event that I do versus like, okay, here's maybe a gap like,
32:27
or here's something that I identify that I really need to work on as I continue to progress in the
32:31
sport. Yeah, I'm not wanting to brag on myself. That's bragging. No, you're not bragging. I asked
32:36
you a question. You're just answering it. Well, the people that have trying to help me get like
32:40
sponsorships and stuff, they've kind of proud of me and said, you got to be able to brag on
32:44
yourself a little more. I thought you're going to ask about like what's held me back in the past.
32:49
So I was going to say, I don't even know that guy anymore. Yeah, it's all in front of me. But
32:53
I think I think I'm pretty long. And I think that helps. I think that helps a lot of stuff.
33:00
How tall are you? 62. Okay, 62, but real long.
33:03
Yeah, really long wrangutan arms long. And I think that helps a bunch. You see that you see that
33:09
with flanking cattle, like, you know, putting them on their side because you got that reach and you've
33:13
got the leverage, which is huge too. You can see a little, little short guy that's buff and strong
33:19
and could probably lift a lift a pickup truck and they have trouble flanking because of the leverage
33:24
that in the roping, I think. So like my roping and my catch has always been, has always been on
33:29
point pretty good. And as soon as a guy gets the bragging on one thing, it seems like you get,
33:33
you get weak there and then you go miss one or something silly. Yeah. Well, how does that happen
33:39
like for, for pros? Because like I was, we were talking whenever we were eating before this,
33:42
like when you watch, like when you watch an event like that, these, a lot of these guys just don't
33:48
miss. And you lose kind of how crazy it is. Like, I remember when I watched Mike Metzger,
33:54
he was the first guy, like, I think in competition or maybe ever to do a backflip in a motor cross
33:59
on a motorcycle. And you know, they're showing this on television. It's crazy. It's insane. But then
34:04
they had two back-to-back ramps. And so he did a backflip off a one ramp and then a backflip off
34:08
the next ramp, right? And it never been numb for now. If you're a top 100 motocross, you know,
34:14
freestyle guy, you can't do a backflip. You would just won't be a pro. Like it's just so old,
34:18
but I should remember, like, I had never even ridden a motorcycle when I watched Mike Metzger
34:22
do this. And I was like, he just made it look super easy. And but like now I'm just at this point,
34:27
because of how hard you did. So it is because I hard, you know, lifting weights are because
34:30
how hard baseball is. I just assume stuff's hard. Like if someone does something like, I'm assuming
34:35
I can pick up the most rudimentary way that it's done. Like you talked like if you, you know,
34:40
since I can throw, you could probably, you know, five, six minutes get me to where I can like,
34:44
you know, throw the rope in the generalized direction. Yeah, and catch a chair, like a small,
34:49
you know, child or a big person. As long as he's not moving. Yeah. But then you put me on something
34:53
that's moving like a horse and you make that animal move, then like all bets are off. But like,
34:57
kind of what is the, what is the technique that kind of sets it sets it apart? That makes it so
35:02
hard to do in real life. It's probably just like, like we'll use wrestling for example,
35:08
when I went to Jiu Jitsu with you, that second time that kid come out and he was, I don't know
35:14
what he was. You maybe know the kid. He was 14 to probably not over 16 and small. He made
35:20
me look stout. So he was pretty small. And I was like, Yep, I'm about to get my first tap, you know,
35:26
or something. And then he just, he just dummies me. So I think what maybe separates that is that
35:32
kids probably done it his whole life. You know, he got, he got put in the, you know, his first name,
35:37
because you know, he's, he's a minor, but he's bullard. And he comes from a long line of wrestlers.
35:42
There we go. And this was a kid. I think at the time he would have been a freshman in high school
35:45
or something like that. And he's nasty. He's got really good technique. And he's wrestling strong.
35:50
Like you wouldn't look at him be like, Hey, that kid's strong. But it's like, he's been squeezing
35:54
things and controlling bodies since he was a baby. You know what I mean? Keep talking about him.
35:57
Keep talking about him. Make me feel better. It's because you looked at him. You're like,
36:01
I want to smash this kid. And then I mean, there's a guy in my gym. He's 17 years old. I've never even
36:06
scored on him. Like, I mean, he's a pro. Like he's going all over the world and doing jiu-jitsu.
36:10
His name is Jet Thompson. And so no relation. But the kid just, he's just on another level.
36:14
But go ahead. Yeah, I think that's it. That was just to my point. You know, you got to grow up
36:19
doing it. You got to grow up with a rope in your hand. And you got to grow up. If you're a rough
36:24
stock guy, you got to grow up riding calves, riding steers. And you know, there's, there's
36:28
the odd people that come into the game later and stuff. And they're, they're somewhat of a freak.
36:32
And just also, you know, you got to be driven. You got to have the right direction. And,
36:37
and that's a huge part. You know, you can, you can go into the gym and lift all kinds of stuff.
36:43
But if you're doing things wrong, you're not going to get to a certain professionalism.
36:47
Yeah. And so now we need to get to like, okay,
36:51
paint us a word picture, Kyle. So you're at an event. So well, you're about to go up to it.
36:57
We said, I'm in tomorrow. So yeah, that's whenever you compete is tomorrow. Okay. So what is it
37:03
like? So you enter in how many people are going to be competing? And then I want you to like,
37:06
take us through like an actual, like you're on your horse, like you're ready to go, like,
37:11
give us the behind the scenes, like you end up getting, getting to where you need to be to,
37:14
to be set up to do it. And then just take us through like the whole thing. Because, you know,
37:19
if you've done it, if you've watched on television or been to a road here, you don't see behind
37:21
scenes stuff. So give us all that. You just kind of see like a, you made me think of a golfer when
37:26
you said that, you know, all you see is the golfer stand up there and hit the ball. But
37:31
there's a sequence to it, just like, just exactly like in rodeo, there's a, there's a,
37:36
you know, you grow up doing it, you know, what works, what doesn't work. And
37:41
it's weird rodeo, especially calf rope. And they say calf rope is the hardest event because
37:47
there's just so many variables. And I believe that to be true, I'm a little bit biased, but
37:53
calf roping is almost like trying to pick a lock. And you, and the, and the code is always changing.
38:00
Like sometimes you get it right. Sometimes you know the code even, and it doesn't open the lock.
38:05
And you just have to keep going back and, and trying to figure it out and, and get,
38:10
that's where the consistency comes into play. Like you just have to control all you can control,
38:15
just like the shot sequence in a, in a putter per se. So, so we've got our stuff that we,
38:22
we do, you know, we usually get to the rodeo. I try to get there about an hour and a half
38:26
early, maybe two hours. And, and that's, that's on purpose too, because sometimes going across
38:32
different time zones, it's been a long time, but I forgot about the, about losing an hour
38:38
one time. And I showed up and the rodeo was starting. And I thought I was going to be an hour early.
38:42
So that kind of saved me there. Yeah. So I was trying to get there two hours before.
38:47
We draw the cattle. So they'll be tomorrow. They'll be what they call half enough cattle. So,
38:52
you know, 120 ropers, I think. So they'll be 60 head of cattle. And so they'll draw those 60 head
38:59
of cattle to each cowboy an hour and a half before. So get there two hours before, get your horse
39:05
situated, get your horse saddled, go check the draw. See what, which bovine you drew,
39:11
and then kind of make a plan on there. Sometimes the, the cattle have been other places. So you,
39:17
there's kind of a track record. And we've even got an app on our phone. We can look up,
39:21
oh, this guy ran this calf at this place. And, but I believe, I believe tomorrow the cattle have
39:27
been to the college rodeo. They just had a college rodeo and guy in there last week,
39:31
last weekend, I guess. So it's going to be the same cattle. So I might call my college buddy that I
39:36
knew was at the rodeo and say, Hey, do you have a list on these calves? So that's, that's another
39:41
1% thing that you got to do in this sport. You know, just as much as me, if you do 10 1% things,
39:47
you got a 10% better chance of winning, which is, which is huge in our game, especially when you
39:51
get to that level. So usually check the draw, try to do some research, start stretching. I just
39:58
kind of stretch all the time I'm getting old now I'm 30. So I just, I'm just kind of always stretching
40:03
and get warmed up really good, get my horse warmed up really good. Just for today's sake,
40:10
I've got a, I've got a younger horse right now that's been coming along really good. I've been in
40:15
California at Clovis the last week. So she's been having some time off. So got to get her
40:21
legged up and warmed up really good, kind of knocked the edge off of her little bits where she can
40:25
zone in and focus. So there's all those little things on top of getting myself ready. And then
40:30
usually once all that's dialed in, horses warmed up, I'm warmed up, you know, you got to start
40:38
really zoning in on your mental game. Because that's, that's such a huge part at this level,
40:43
is your mental game. And I've taken some, some notes from this guy and that guy. And then, but
40:50
you really just have to figure out what works for you and get your, get your mind right. It seems like
40:55
the point where I'm getting in my, my rodeo career, I'm almost getting to a maturity level to where
41:04
if my mind ain't right, if my mind's not right that day, like I can catch myself and say,
41:09
hey, we've been in this mind frame a lot before and it doesn't work. You're not going to do good
41:15
liking. So I'm able to snap out of that and you know, and get my, get my mind pointed in the right
41:20
direction. No matter what that is, I'm, I'm hesitant to tell, tell some of my secrets on here in case
41:26
some of these cowboys I'm competing with. No secrets. They might go in there and steal some
41:30
of my secrets and beat me, but you know, it's whatever you got to do. If you got a, if you're down on
41:35
yourself and I'm confident, maybe go back and look at some old rodeo videos on your phone when you
41:41
won and listen to the announcer talk about how good you are and this and that, you know, it's,
41:46
it's such a fine line. And so, so mental once you get to the point and your baseball guy, I'm sure
41:52
it's just crazy, crazy high mental just to get above that 500 or whatever. I'm, I'm ignorant
41:58
towards baseball. Oh, dude. So to, for a perspective, if you get a hit three out of 10 times on the
42:05
major league level, your Hall of Famer, for the most part, like there, there are very few guys that
42:10
had, it's an app that played for a long time that had a career average 300 or above that are not in
42:15
Cooperstown. Like, I mean, Cooperstown. So that's the baseball Hall of Fame. So that's kind of like,
42:20
you know, and that's been around for forever. And so that's where all, you know, your Babe
42:23
Russe and your Ticobs and, you know, that's where all those guys are have been memorialized. But you
42:28
think about it, like, wait a minute, you're the best in the world at this thing. And your bus,
42:33
you're basically guaranteed to fail 75% of the time. Like you're not gonna be able to do what you
42:38
want to do. Has that changed? Like, like in the last 10 years per say, like, I don't know if the,
42:42
if the pitchers have gotten that much better, whereas the there was only so far, you could go as a
42:47
hitter or has it always been about three out of 10? It's always been about three out of 10. Now,
42:52
the last guy to hit 400 in a season was Ted Williams. And that's what over half a century ago.
42:58
I mean, that's kind of what we're looking at. Tony Gwyn flirted with it a little bit. Larry Walker
43:02
flirted with it. Each row flirted with it. But to get a hit four out of 10 times is like,
43:08
it's completely unheard of. It doesn't make any sense. And what has changed in the game is
43:14
so back in the day, there wasn't a whole lot of analytics. And so the starting pitcher would pitch
43:20
until they started getting rocked or until they got a little bit tired or something like that.
43:24
But now guys are on like specific pitch counts. Like you're going to pitch this many pitches.
43:28
A lot of teams will not let you, yeah, they won't let you go through a lineup for the third time.
43:33
Because they've how they have all your stats. You're like, okay, opponent, you know, batting average
43:40
is at its highest as you're pitching to them for the third time, because they've seen you,
43:44
they've kind of timed you, they have an idea of your cadence and those types of things.
43:47
And so there's a lot of, there's a lot more specialization. So there's guys coming out of the
43:51
bullpen. They're only on the roster to do this one thing to strike out guys like that or to get
43:56
guys like that to roll over on an off speed pitch and, you know, duck farted to the other side of
44:00
the infield. And then it's an easy out, something like that. And so that's kind of what's happened
44:05
with baseball is everyone's focusing on things like launch angle. Now they're focusing on getting
44:10
your OPS. OPS is a combination of on base percentage and slugging percentage all divided by the number
44:15
of bad bats, I believe, I believe I said that right. And like, it's, it's just, it's all, it's
44:20
like scientific now. It's like, you're not playing a game as much as you're playing like a computer.
44:24
And so you're trying to beat the computer, you're trying to do all those different things,
44:27
you're trying to learn. So they kind of lost the feel for it, I guess, like some of the old heads,
44:31
some of the guys have been around a while, they're like, these players don't have a feel. It's not
44:35
cool. Yeah, they don't have a feel for the game. Like an RDA. Yeah, I mean, wait, it's kind of a
44:39
back in your day thing. But it's like, Hey, every statistic would tell you take this picture out. But
44:45
you as the manager or the pitching coach, you go to the mountain and you visit him and you talk to
44:49
him and you hear kind of how he's talking and he's still confident. He still got a little gas and
44:52
tanky say, I got a good feeling about this. We're going to leave mint. And so now there's way too
44:57
much like overthinking like, Nope, the spreadsheet says like, this is the point where we put this
45:02
guy in the lineup and this appointment. Is that has that brought it up? Like the percentages?
45:07
No, it's not. Well, because look, as like, as hitters are getting better,
45:12
you've got pitchers that are getting better. And like back in the day, like every picture that
45:16
comes out of the bullpen throws 98 99 100 with like an off speed pitch. So like a curveball or
45:24
slider that's in the 80s, something like something ridiculous like that. All of them.
45:27
Back in the day, there was like three guys in the entire league that could throw like that.
45:32
So all the hitters are getting better at the same time. But so are all the pitchers.
45:36
And the game still lends itself to an advantage to a dominant pitcher because of the mound height
45:41
and because of like, you know, certain things. Yeah, I never thought of that. Well, the thing is,
45:45
is the mound is 60 and a half feet away. The pitcher's rubber is 60 and a half feet away from
45:49
home plate. That doesn't make a lot of sense until you watch it from the side. Yeah, when you watch
45:55
the angle from the back, why didn't the guy swing? And I was like, because his brain didn't even
46:00
know he was playing baseball. And so like to connect with his brain to move his body to like
46:04
throw his hands at the pitch. And so I guess even like for you, what about the last 10 years of
46:10
calf rope and or what are what are the differences like from your day to your dad's day? Are there
46:13
things where your dad's like, well, back in my day, it was like this or Hey, you young guys right
46:17
now, y'all are so much better at X. No, it's a, I think it's a completely different game. Like,
46:22
my dad's day, I believe my dad was one of the first ones to start, like shortening his rope.
46:28
They used to have longer ropes because they would, they would run up there on a lot bigger cattle
46:34
and try to jerk them down, get a good hard jerk on this big old monster calf. And that
46:40
longer rope allowed your horse to stop and get stop, give him more time to stop and get solid to
46:46
hit that calf a hair harder. Whereas today they're a little bit smaller and we got to keep them
46:50
standing up a lot of places. And so that's changed the game like they used to get off the left
46:55
back in my dad's day. And that tied into getting a better jerk on the calf. They wanted your horse
47:01
to be super straight. Whereas they said, well, as soon as they started getting off the right side,
47:06
they everyone was saying that everyone's horses were going to duck and that that was true in a sense.
47:10
But in another sense, you have to now with the timing. Now we hold our slack. I don't know if
47:18
you know what that means, but like I roped the calf by the throat. And I got my rope in my hand,
47:22
I just roped them with, and I jump off with it in my hand. So the calves pulling on it and pulling
47:28
on me at the same time. So I'm getting that, I'm getting that momentum. Whereas they used to throw
47:34
it to try and get that pop, you know, and then you wouldn't get your momentum. So I think that's
47:41
one of the, one of the key things that has changed in the game and made it so much faster, you know,
47:46
no one's getting off the left, you stuff to get off the left, duck under your rope, it just takes
47:50
too long to where now we're all holding it, getting a sand getting down there. Back then,
47:56
everyone would put two wraps on. I say everyone, but I'm sure there were times like we're at
48:01
Dale's house, the other Dale, Dale Brisbane's house, and we were teaching them how to tie the
48:06
dummy and stuff. And, and it used to all be two wraps. And then now it's, now it's gone to a
48:12
wrap and a hooey a lot of the times, which I believe it'll speed you up maybe two tents,
48:17
which back then maybe two tents wasn't a big deal. But now, now it can be, you know, first to,
48:23
to fifth or it can be placing or not placing. So I'm going to say like your average time
48:29
back in my dad's day, earlier in my dad's day, I'd say like maybe his rookie year, they were like
48:36
a nine was a very fast time. Just because of the cattle and the way everyone was doing it,
48:41
whereas say that the exact same setup were tying those calves in seven, which is, you know, quite,
48:47
quite a difference. I would say way more of a difference than the baseball guys, how you said
48:52
it hasn't changed a ton. But yeah, the rope, the rope and his dang sure change. I don't know
48:58
about the rough stock guys. That's kind of out of my, out of my deal. But as the calf are open,
49:03
I got to say that and the team are open has, has dang sure changed.
49:06
Yeah, I don't even know, like for bull riding, because you still kind of hear some of the same
49:11
names, like above bulls, like bodacious. And like, I'm, you know, I think they're way rancor,
49:16
though. Like, I think, I think bodacious got so well known because of how dangerous he was,
49:21
he had that big drop, you know, and then he got smart with it. He would do the drop and then he'd
49:26
start throwing his head up and hitting those guys and no one wore a helmet back then. So it was game
49:31
over and people get on the fence to watch that bull. But now I think that bull maybe wouldn't
49:36
even be that rank anymore. There's just so many more genetics and stuff. And not only are the bulls
49:42
rancor, but the, the cowboys are professionals now like, yeah, I was in Decatur working out with my
49:48
buddy Cliff Cooper. It's actually, I've told you about his brother tough. Yeah. And so Cliff was a
49:54
personal trainer there and we went and did some workouts. And I think it was me, another calf
49:58
roper. And then there were like five other Brazilian bull riders. And let me tell you those guys,
50:03
they're athletes. They're, they're not the old school cowboys. So as the, the level of the,
50:08
the bulls have changed the, the cowboys had to change with them too. And it's, I think it's
50:12
pretty evident. Well, I mean, you look at it, when you mentioned the UFC and I mentioned
50:16
where it's Gracie earlier, this, that's why you can't compare people from one era to another era,
50:22
because hoist Gracie, if he fought in the welterweight division right now in the UFC,
50:27
oh my gosh, like he would, he would be absolutely destroyed. He'd be way too one-dimensional. Yeah.
50:32
Like, yeah, his, his style of jujitsu is like, it's hard to talk like that. Cause we can,
50:37
I can say, I can talk about calf ropers that are retired now. And I'd be like, well,
50:41
they wouldn't be so dominant in my day. But it's, it's hard to compare those guys. Cause you know,
50:46
if hoist Gracie, he was such a dominant guy, if he had to compete nowadays and start where everyone
50:52
else does, he would have leveled up as well. Right. So, but it's, it's super cool to look back and,
50:57
and look at that. Like you said, he, he would get down me to bunch nowadays. If he'd come in with
51:01
that style and the same with the calf for open, same with bull riding everything. Yeah. I mean,
51:05
people looking out, they're like, well, if they've roof played today, he wouldn't be able to hit
51:08
mom walls. Like, well, he did play it a hundred years ago. So there is that. And so yes, the game
51:14
has changed. Velocity has gone up. The technology of the ball has changed considerably. Cause like,
51:19
when I was up at Cooperstown, I got to take a private tour. I was thankful to be able to do that.
51:22
I got to hold baby Bruce bat. Well, his bat felt like holding a log that had been like in a river
51:29
for, you know, 10 years or whatever. It was so unbelievably heavy. Most guys now are not swinging
51:36
bats that are that heavy. You have guys that are swinging bats that have more of a torpedo shape.
51:39
That's something that kind of came out this year because they're trying to increase the size of
51:43
the sweet spot of the bat. One of the weird things is each row, which a lot of guys know,
51:47
he was more of a slap hitter, really, really fast left handed hitter. The, the guy, the curator of
51:52
the museum is giving me a private tour. Like he goes, you're a baseball guy, right? Like you played
51:56
a lot. And I'm like, I'm going to hand you a bat. It's each row's bat. I just want you to tell me
52:00
if you notice anything about it. So he hands me this bat. So I'm holding it. I'm like, I'm just
52:06
kind of like shaking it in my head, just like, you know, when any guy that gets a bat for the first
52:10
time, you just kind of shake it, see how it feels in your hand. And I started shaking it. And you
52:13
could see him start to smile because I think he knew I was about to say it. But I was like,
52:17
it feels like all the weight is in the very end of this bat. And he smiles were big. And he's like,
52:22
exactly, because each row's game was predicated on slapping the ball hard the opposite way,
52:29
and then outrunning the, you know, the throw to first base. That's what his game was predicated on.
52:33
He wasn't a Deadpool hitter. He didn't like try to hit for power any of that. And so he wanted
52:38
the bat almost to slap down at the baseball. He didn't want this big launch angle. He wanted
52:42
more of a flat swing or a flat downswing where he had a chance. He knew his game and it worked.
52:47
And but if you had given that bat to another left handed here to like King Griffey Jr. or
52:52
something like that, he probably doesn't hit nearly as well with it. And so that's why everybody
52:56
kind of specifies. So, all right. So let's go. You're ready to go. I want you to take us through
53:02
the entire like seven or so seconds. Okay, take us through the fastest time you've ever had in
53:07
your career as a pro and take us through. So what was your mindset? What was kind of the thing you
53:12
did beforehand? What did you whisper in your horses ear? Like, you know, all the things.
53:16
I'm not a horse whisperer. Okay, not a horse whisperer. Okay. So talk about the prep.
53:19
And then we've we've got the actual event. And then you're done. The timer is done. Describe it
53:24
for soup. This is perfect. This is a perfect for this podcast too. I think like I might be hesitant.
53:29
I probably tell a different story that's not the truth, but this one is the truth. Okay, good.
53:33
Napa Idaho. I was on my good horse ghost. I actually bought him here in Oklahoma. Just sold
53:38
him to a, I believe he's a 12 year old kid. It's perfect fit. Glad he went there. But I had ghost.
53:45
And I didn't think I could tie calves very fast. I don't know. That makes sense. Like
53:51
fastest times wind, like we said, time to vent. So I didn't think I could tie them very fast on
53:56
him. And long story short on that, like some horses just have qualities that, you know,
54:02
if they're they slide a lot or they're not, they don't stop very fast, you know, that eats up the
54:07
clock. If they don't pull the calf to you bunch, like it's tense here and there that make a huge
54:12
difference. And I never thought he was going to be one of those, those fast clock stopping horses.
54:18
And he hadn't been to that point. And I've been having heck hadn't been winning anything. And
54:23
rodeo is such a hard game. Mentally you can be number one in the world. And then it all come
54:28
crashing down just like that. So I hadn't been winning anything. I've been really down.
54:33
Just I believe it was so is that Napa. So it was just after the 4th of July run, went to all those
54:40
rodeos 4th of July. They call it the cowboy Christmas. It's crazy. You can win all kinds of money. I didn't
54:46
had crappy luck here and there. And finally I got to a point. I'm like, I'm not even going to think
54:54
I'm going to think about God the whole time. I'm going to let him do his thing. If I fall off the
54:59
back of my horse, if I don't even touch the calf with my rope, so be it. I said, I'm just going to
55:04
think about God. You know, like I said earlier, we've got our little steps that we have to take
55:09
just like a putter walking up to make a putt. And I was like, I didn't want even going to think of
55:13
that. I was going to tie my rope on put my pick and string in my mouth and just go back in the box
55:19
and just think about God. Think about how good God is everything. And so I back in there had a
55:26
pretty good calf. It was a second round. First round didn't go very good. It's a it's a fast set up
55:32
there like some rodeos like Geiman tomorrow. If you're a nine second run, it's probably a decent run.
55:38
It's a three head. So if you tie three or nine, you're probably going to get paid pretty good. And so
55:43
this was a quicker setup like they time in sixes and sevens there. And I'd never been six before.
55:49
And I knew that's probably what it was going to take short seven long six. So like I said, nothing
55:56
was going good. I backed in there. I just completely shut everything off. Didn't worry about the tight
56:03
neck catch didn't worry about flanking tie and tight anything. Backed in there, nodded my head.
56:09
And it's just like a like a movie played out, you know, like, you know, probably like baseball,
56:15
those guys that make that perfect hit or perfect pitch. It was almost just fluent to him. And yeah,
56:20
almost like they were sitting beside themselves watching it come over. And it was it was that way.
56:26
I think I two or three probably three swung took three swings, caught this calf, spun him around,
56:31
put a wrap and a hooey on. Like I said, took the little shortcut. I think I was six, eight.
56:37
And I believe my fastest time up to that point was only seven flat. Whereas a six seconds run,
56:43
that's your that's your pinnacle. Like that's, that's what you try to be every time. And there's
56:49
probably only maybe five of them throughout the whole year throughout all the rodeos, 500 plus
56:55
rodeos, 600 plus rodeos, Canada and US, I bet there's only half a dozen six second runs
57:02
ordered. So I was six, eight there. And like I said, it was my, it was my toughest decision to
57:10
finally let go. But the easiest one at the same time, because it, you know, it, it transcended into
57:16
that favorite run of mine. And you know, and then it's cool that way too, because like right now,
57:22
I get to give God the glory for that, because like, whether or not you, you believe in God,
57:28
whatever God is, I believed in it at that time. And it didn't fail me, you know, and he,
57:34
whether you win or lose or like I said, fall off, you got to know that you got to trust God,
57:39
and you got to know that that's on purpose. And I think that it was really cool that he,
57:43
he allowed me to do that. And it was my first, you know, I've always tried to let God take over
57:49
in my rope and stuff like that. Because I know at the end of the day, I'll be better off whether,
57:53
you know, no matter what it is, but to for the first time, like completely give my, my run,
58:02
so to speak over to him, and then him to bring me through on my fastest time to date, you know,
58:08
I thought it was really special. And now I try to use that all the time. And it doesn't always
58:12
work. And like I said, the hardest and the easiest part is to be in that mind frame and,
58:16
and let God take over. One part of it is not, you did just let go and let God, you did a lot of
58:22
preparation. You did a lot of training. You had been in some ways training your entire life. And
58:28
then when it got to the results time, you can't control results. Like you can only control
58:33
preparation, you can control to a degree, your mindset. But once you get there, it's like,
58:38
it just kind of is what it is. I mean, you jiu jitsu tournament, like everybody there has the same
58:43
goal that I wanted to be at the very top of the podium. But only one guy gets to be at the top
58:47
of the podium. Okay, what's the difference between you and that guy? Sometimes you're going to be
58:51
that guy. Sometimes you're not going to be that guy. But you can control your preparation. You can't
58:56
control if the other guy's just better than you that day. Yeah. And so, but I mean, that day,
59:01
so did you end up winning? Did you take first place? Well, no, I actually didn't my,
59:04
if there was one guy to beat me, it was is my good buddy. I think he was like six, six,
59:09
which is probably, I think it was recorded the fastest time of that year. And I think he was six,
59:14
six or six, seven barely beat me, whatever. I think we had dinner that night. It's not like we're
59:19
mad at each other about it. You know, but I wish I could say it was and I won that round. And I
59:24
have won that specific round at that specific rodeo, but I was like a half a second slower. So that
59:30
kind of puts into perspective on how how fast we actually were that day. But no, I didn't get the
59:34
round. Okay, so how much? So I've, I've thought about this in terms of like the 100 meters,
59:40
right? Like at the Olympics, you know, I forget what it's like nine, five eight or something is
59:45
what Usain Bolt ran and what would have been the 2008 Olympics, I think that's still standing
59:51
as the 100 meter world record. And these guys are as fast as fast as fast can be,
59:58
genetically speaking, they're, they're perfect for their body and their modality and their
1:00:04
foot strike. And they've got freaks. Yeah, they're, they're literal freaks, but then they've got the
1:00:10
best nutrition. They've got the best recovery. They've got the best coaches and training programs.
1:00:14
And you've seen people try to get these, you know, sub two hour, I think sub two hour marathons and
1:00:21
all this type of thing. I just wonder where the gap is is nine, five eight as fast as a human is
1:00:26
going to get like without, you know, them getting robot legs or, you know, have an AI race or something
1:00:31
weird. It's like I'm gonna be until someone beats it. Right. Isn't it? What's, what's the,
1:00:35
what's the, there was a record there on how fast you could run a mile. And they said that it would
1:00:40
never get broken. Yeah. And then the one guy broke it. And now everyone can bring it. Yeah.
1:00:45
Yeah. So, so in your world, like realistically, so you said your, your buddy beat you with like a
1:00:52
six, six, right? And like you were out of six, eight, like what's the fastest time ever in that event?
1:00:59
And is there anything that can be done to shave a 10th at this point?
1:01:04
It's going to get beat. Yeah. I bet if it ain't this year, it's within the next three
1:01:08
hundred percent six, three is the fastest. That was a Ricky Canton. It was, I think it was maybe
1:01:14
even the last year my dad was rode on. It was in Canada. Strathmore, Alberta. I remember I was
1:01:20
a little kid. I was snaring gophers in the back and they said Ricky Canton six, three. I remember
1:01:26
I was even standing. I remember kind of looking over there, not thinking it was real. So six threes
1:01:30
of record, this would have been early 2000s, 2005, 2006, something like that. But I think with,
1:01:38
like we mentioned the cattle getting a little bit better, they're getting smaller, which makes it
1:01:44
faster. There's a little bit more athletes nowadays. My buddy, Shad Mayfield, has actually
1:01:51
unofficially been six, one, two times. One was, it would have been a week ago now, a week and a
1:01:57
half ago at San Angelo. And how I mentioned that when the time starts, when that barrier rope pulls,
1:02:04
that's our, that's our panel. That's the only penalty we can get if we go too fast. So we have
1:02:11
to give the calf a head start. And if we shortcut or leave too fast, we'll break the little string
1:02:18
that's in front. And then we get a 10 second penalty. So that's called the barrier. If that
1:02:23
makes sense or not. So so my buddy, Shad, he was 61 at San Angelo a week and a half ago. But he broke
1:02:30
the barrier. And I say that like, like it's, it's legit, but it's not legit. Because it's not like,
1:02:36
it's not like he took a huge cheat shortcut to where it's on a fit on official, I guess, like he,
1:02:44
he legitimately was that fast, but just like a half an inch difference made him from beating
1:02:50
the record to being having that 10 second penalty. So he went from being the world record holder by
1:02:57
two tenths, the record that hasn't been beat in almost, you know, 20 years to being a 16 second
1:03:05
time. And I say that story. And I think it's pretty cool. Because he was, he was also a 61 at the
1:03:12
national finals. Two years ago, I guess now a completely different run. It was probably the
1:03:17
coolest run I've ever seen. But the only other penalty, I guess I would say it's not really a
1:03:23
penalty. But you get a complete no time. Once you tie your calf, you have to go get back on your
1:03:29
horse and then ride your horse ahead. And then that calf has to stay down for six seconds.
1:03:33
Soon as your rope gets slacked, they start a clock. There's a guy standing there, he starts a clock.
1:03:39
So they have to stay down for six seconds. And if they get up, it's a no time. So that buddy of
1:03:45
mine, he was 61 at the NFR. And then road ahead, the calf got up. No time. So like I said, he went
1:03:53
from holding the world record to a no time. So, but I think because of that, it might be a four minute
1:04:00
mile scenario that we see unfold in front of us. But I think it's staying sure going to get beat.
1:04:06
I'm going to say, I'm going to say in July, I think in right after the Calgary stampede this
1:04:12
year, I bet I wouldn't doubt they get it. And if I get the right go, I think I can put that
1:04:17
run together. Hey, if you do, you better let us know. We'll get everybody an update on the show.
1:04:21
Put a clip on it. Well, I mean, let's just kind of talk. So you're at your 30.
1:04:24
How long do calf rope and careers last? And then, you know, just like with any type of professional
1:04:31
athlete or professional sport or something like that, father time's undefeated, you know, even with
1:04:36
good genetics and, you know, good everything else being taken care of.
1:04:40
One day your career is going to be over and you better have a plan for afterwards,
1:04:43
because how many guys you see they, they burn bright, but then they burn out. They, you know,
1:04:47
and they just kind of burn fast here. They are the 31 years old. They're not a pro anymore.
1:04:51
And their entire identity is wrapped up and being a professional, whatever.
1:04:55
And now they're like, well, shoot, what am I going to do now? And so like kind of the easy
1:04:58
thing is, okay, I'll coach the thing I was just good at. But you're, you're either a good coach
1:05:02
or you're not. It's kind of hard to learn how to be a good coach. So what is, you know,
1:05:05
what does your trajectory look like from here? Yeah, it's cool. You asked me that because I've
1:05:09
been battling with that for about the last year or so, maybe even longer.
1:05:13
Not that, not that I think that it's anytime soon. I think it's all, it's all up to God. And I've,
1:05:20
when I first, or I guess when God first found me, I didn't find him when, when he first found me,
1:05:29
that's something that we kind of talked about him and I. Like, I feel like he's told me, you know,
1:05:34
there is going to come a date where you're not going to rodeo anymore. And at that time,
1:05:39
so it's 2016, it's August 2016, up to that point, you know, I was young kid, everything's in front of
1:05:46
me. And I was going to rodeo my whole life this and that. And then God kind of put into perspective,
1:05:52
you know, this is, there's going to be a end date on this. And I had never thought of it that way
1:05:57
before. And I know I've talked about my dad a lot, but I respect him a bunch for that too. He,
1:06:03
he made the finals his last year. And he stepped away from it. So I thought it was cool that he kind
1:06:09
of was able to retire on top. And, and that's been one of my main goals of my career,
1:06:15
probably a top five goal as silly as it sounds was to, is to retire. Like when I want to retire
1:06:22
and retire at the right time, because like you said, you see, see so many guys burn out or there's,
1:06:27
you see a lot in the rodeo world guys that should be retired that aren't going still. And I don't
1:06:32
know if they lose respect or not, but if that's just a pride thing that I think of, but I, I dank
1:06:37
sure want to retire. I don't, I don't want to retire when I need to. I want to retire when I want
1:06:43
to. Yeah. But as far as dates, I don't know, I don't know it's going really good this year. I
1:06:49
think I'm about fifth in the world. Best year I've ever had up to this point. Have a really good
1:06:54
chance got got a good buddy in Canada right now. I've been riding his horse and calf are open to
1:06:58
such about like you can be the best Roper in the world. If you're riding, I'm not a very good horse,
1:07:03
you won't even crack the top 30. Whereas a guy that might rope half as good as him rides the best
1:07:09
horse he'll be at the finals every year. You see it every time. So I got a really good horse this
1:07:14
year. I've just been riding a buddy of mines. And then I've got that young one over here. That's,
1:07:19
that's coming up really nice too. So I think it's not this year for sure. But I think,
1:07:27
I don't know. I, I pray a lot. I, I try to talk to God more than I talk to anyone else. And
1:07:32
I mean, not just in a week, but you know, every day. And I think, I think that he'll let me know
1:07:39
when it's time. And right now is Dang sure not the time, but we'll, we'll see. There's a lot of
1:07:44
variables. I've made you talk for over an hour. So you got to, you know, get caught back up on
1:07:48
your drive to Gaimen. But no, just literally today, like this afternoon, I saw a quote from my,
1:07:53
my favorite fighter of all time, who I think is the greatest MMA fighter of all time on the
1:07:57
short St. Pierre. So long time, welterweight 170 pound champion goes away, comes back, wins the
1:08:03
middleweight championship beats Michael Bisming. I think it was in New York City. So now, you know,
1:08:08
one, you know, got 185 170. So he basically wins that 185 and then retires. He didn't retire
1:08:14
immediately. He's like, Oh, you know, stomach problems, whatever. But you know, all told,
1:08:17
I think he's the best guy ever. But he literally said a quote similar to what you just said. It's
1:08:22
like, no, no, like, I don't want to go away when I, you know, most of the time in MMA,
1:08:28
your last fight, you are face down, bloody and unconscious. And that's your last fight. And when
1:08:33
you wake up, you realize, Oh, shoot, I should probably cut my gloves off and put them down on
1:08:36
the middle of the octagon. So it's not, it's not great. It's not a, it's not a very casual sport
1:08:41
for most guys. But if you can structure your career in a way to where you can go out on your
1:08:45
own terms, uh, Dustin Poirier, he was just announced that he's going to be in, who knows, you know,
1:08:50
if there's going to be injury or something, but as of the recording of this, one more fight,
1:08:54
it's going to be in Louisiana, which is where he's from. It'll be in New Orleans and he's fighting
1:08:58
Max Holloway, a guy that he's fought before that he's been before. It's for the, you know,
1:09:02
the stupid made up BMF belt. But here it is. I guess it's a real thing. Um, but the thing is,
1:09:07
he's taken some damage. He's had some wars, but he still has all of his mental faculties. He can
1:09:13
make sentences. He's still relatively young. He's old and MMA years, but he's still a relatively
1:09:17
young guy. He's made a ridiculous amount of money. He's got a really, really, really good reputation.
1:09:22
Yeah. And he's got options. So as opposed to going in there and fighting, you know,
1:09:26
you're fighting top of the bill and then you slowly start working your way down. Okay. Now you're,
1:09:30
you're on the prelims. Okay. You're getting knocked out on the prelims, but you know,
1:09:33
they're keeping you around because you got a name. He's like, no, I'm going to go out
1:09:38
with a championship fight against a made up belt. It's not a real thing, but it's like, you know,
1:09:41
but I'm going to go out where there's something on the line and I'm fighting in front of, you know,
1:09:45
my hometown crowd as it were. And so I mean, that's a better plan than, you know, your family.
1:09:49
I'm going to sit you down and be like, Hey, isn't it about time? Can we please stop with a calf
1:09:53
for open? That's super cool. Yeah. So you talk a lot to God and you calf rope, you do all that.
1:09:57
Is there anything else that you do? Or is it literally just like rodeo and eating chicken wings
1:10:02
with your buddy? Well, also named Kyle squared. Yeah, that's right. No. And we chatted about it a
1:10:09
little bit. I think I think hunting is like, is my other passion for sure. Yeah. Yeah, it's
1:10:15
so much my passion to where I can go. I can watch a podcast. I can watch a show on YouTube.
1:10:24
And then all of a sudden, I'm locked in full hunter mode. I'm making plans. When does this
1:10:28
season open? Ordering this, this gear for this hunt, you know, texting this guy. Hey, what are you
1:10:34
doing on this? Like, and then pretty soon, I'm like, shoot, I got a rodeo this weekend. So they're
1:10:39
they're dang sure both my passion, but it seems like I can drift a lot easier to hunting. I don't
1:10:43
know if that's just the way it is, but you know, there's something deep rooted in every man or woman.
1:10:51
I think just survival over the years to where hunting is so such in our bloodlines to where
1:10:58
it's so natural to where, you know, I can't wait till I'm done rodeo. And so then I can hunt
1:11:04
more too. I'm going to miss rodeo. And but then I might get to do a lot more hunting, God willing.
1:11:09
So I'm dang sure once I get down rodeo and it's not like my my goals are over, you know, like you
1:11:17
said, I mean, it's going to be tough. Every athlete that been on the big stage and has heard your name
1:11:24
called in front of tens of thousands of people, you get that dopamine hit. And then when that's no,
1:11:28
no longer there for you, there's a lot of withdrawals from that. But you know, I'm so I'm so fixated on
1:11:36
on hunting after to where I just can't wait to be able to go down that avenue as well.
1:11:41
So I'm going to make you tell your bad hunting story, because one of the times when we were
1:11:46
hanging out, you told me this, it's one, it's just a heartbreaking story. Because if you've ever
1:11:51
experienced anything similar, it's just the worst. But I guess you had a not so fun ending to an
1:11:56
elk hunt, right? Yeah, you know, and I'm a positive person, you know, it sucks. But I'm not going to
1:12:02
let that take away from the from the experience by any means. So I've always, as I said, I've been
1:12:10
been very, very involved in hunting my dad hunted growing up taught me taught me everything about
1:12:17
hunting and my grandpa too. I remember, I remember packed trips out to the mountains with my my
1:12:22
grandpa would have been 80 some years old, my dad would have been 40 something years old.
1:12:26
And I could get he might have been grandpa might have been seven. I don't know, whatever was there,
1:12:31
their old timers and packing in there two, three days, spending a week out in the mountains. So I
1:12:36
was very much brought up in the hunting world as well. So getting to do that and but elk
1:12:45
huntings always been on my list. And then it seems like as soon as all this social media stepped in,
1:12:51
I got to I got to looking at podcasts and videos of that Cam Haines. I'm sure everyone knows Cam
1:12:56
Haines if they hunt or maybe even rodeo. I mean, he has rodeo guys on there all the time. Dusty
1:13:01
tuckness was just up there running the mountain with him and shooting bows with him. So I got,
1:13:06
I got not only brought into that to where I was more so motivated to go elk hunting, but
1:13:12
you know, Joe Rogan talking about elk hunting, like it was just all everything was just tying in and
1:13:17
I was going into a going into a almost a rabbit hole of specifically elk hunting and which I'm stuck
1:13:25
in. Now I think though, yeah, because of this experience, but got a really good buddy in Canada.
1:13:30
He's got some of the best elk hunting in the world. I'm not even going to say his name. He
1:13:34
didn't want me putting a picture of him on there. You know, it's that prestigious. It's that good
1:13:38
of an area. I don't even know how I got him talked into it. Like my dad's tried to go out there and
1:13:44
and his dad and my dad rodeo together, same area, their buddies, you know, so I got super blessed
1:13:51
to be able to go out there with him. I don't even know what the date was. Maybe the second or third
1:13:56
week of September might have been, might have been later than that, but the rifle season was
1:14:01
then sure long ways away. So went out to his place, western Alberta, just outskirts of the mountains,
1:14:08
you know, rolling hills, a lot of trees. I drive out to his place. We go meet at their ranch.
1:14:15
We go to where we're going to start hiking around. We step out of the truck and within 30 seconds,
1:14:21
we can hear elk bugling. And that was so natural for him. He's like, yep, there they are. We'll go
1:14:26
that way. And I'm like sitting there smiling. I'm like, yeah, this is what I've been wanting to do.
1:14:30
So we we step out and get geared up elk screaming already. We take off. My buddy had been showing me
1:14:38
some pictures of some elk that he's he's seen before. You know, elk lived for a long time. So
1:14:43
he had some history with some elk that were living on their land and coming through their land.
1:14:48
So we chase around a few. We sneak in on a few. He's he's kind of a patchy style hunting. He doesn't
1:14:56
call. He finds out where they are and sneaks up in there. See how close we can get. See see how big
1:15:02
they are. So we we snuck in there and there were some really nice bulls, six by six bulls,
1:15:08
but younger. And I'm I'm ready. I got my my release locked onto my bow. You know, I'm like,
1:15:14
should we shoot this one? I'm like hoping he says yes. And he's like, no, no, he kind of laughs,
1:15:19
you know, we got better ones, whatever. So he we hear this big deep bugle and some cows kind of
1:15:28
talking. I've never I didn't know cows talk so much in these cows. They kind of chirp, you know,
1:15:33
yeah, I didn't know they talk so much. And I I kind of whispered to him about that. And he said,
1:15:37
you know, I've never heard that either. So I don't know what the deal was there. We we got it on on
1:15:42
film to it was cool. These cows were really talkative. So we get a glimpse of this bull
1:15:48
is is the big five we call them because he was just a big five by five. And usually you want to
1:15:54
kind of knock the five by fives out of the genetic pool, but he was so smart and so big is a five.
1:16:00
I think he was giving him some more time because he knew he was going to be special. And I think
1:16:05
he ended up growing a six that year on his one time, but we just we call them the big five. So we
1:16:10
got a glimpse of him walking got across the trail kind of just right. I don't know 100 yards from
1:16:17
where we passed up a six by six cows were chirping like they were. We noticed it was the big five
1:16:24
and he looks over at me and grin. He's grinning. He's got his video camera and he puts a camera on me
1:16:29
and he said, Kyle's going to kill the five by five today. You know, and he showed me pictures
1:16:35
of this bull and all kinds of stuff, just the monster five by five. I mean, you know, when they're
1:16:40
you see the pictures of them in that last time, just tips way down like they could scratch their
1:16:45
tailbone just by barely moving like he had all that cool stuff, you know, huge huge fronts. He was
1:16:51
he was super cool. So Kyle was going to kill the five by five and we snuck back around.
1:16:58
This is all low fence hunting for people that don't know. This is Alberta
1:17:01
while while West. So we snuck back around dip under just the four wire barbed wire fence
1:17:09
kind of sneak up around. I think we got 130 yards from them. Like I said, all the cows were around
1:17:15
there. They're making their noise and we kind of got pinned down though. We couldn't get any
1:17:20
closer than 130 and he'd asked me before he said, were you comfortable at? I said, shoot, let's get
1:17:26
him 40 yards or closer. And he kind of laughed at me. So I knew I knew we're going to have to stretch
1:17:30
it out a little bit. And I had been I had been shooting quite a quite a long distances. I'd been
1:17:35
shooting 80 yards, you know, pretty frequently. And I didn't know how if he thought I was confident
1:17:41
out to that, but we we dang sure didn't get a shot at him at 130. It got too dark on us. We knew
1:17:47
where he was at. We backed out, come out the next day. He was on the neighbor's yard where we're
1:17:53
not allowed to hunt. I was kind of thinking of all kinds of plans how to do the poor me go ask the
1:17:58
neighbors and that my buddy said, no, you'll have more more luck just waiting for him to come back
1:18:05
to our side. So okay. So we did and he never did come back long story short. Long story long,
1:18:12
actually. No, I did. There are so many people in our audience are like on the edge of their
1:18:16
seat right now. Okay, then what happened next? So keep going. Yeah, well, I actually I watched
1:18:20
that bull all, all morning. My buddy had to go take his kids to school. And and I think he,
1:18:25
he boards horses. So he had to do some stuff with that, get some feed, whatever. But I was,
1:18:30
he put me on this little perch with his spot and scope. And I watched that bull all day. I listened
1:18:35
to the bull all day. He had by the time he got onto the neighbor's pasture on this side hill.
1:18:41
He, he had probably 70 cows with him. So I think it was maybe a couple different herds that he had
1:18:48
there, which must have drawn him from the land that he owned that we're allowed to hunt to the
1:18:53
ones we weren't. Because there were probably half a dozen other bulls, they would come challenge
1:18:58
them, they'd get their butt whoop, they'd run off. And you know, he had to keep track all of these
1:19:02
girls. And it's just amazing to watch how fast those, those elk move, I forget what they said,
1:19:10
but the stride between four steps or moving all four legs is just you wouldn't believe how,
1:19:14
how much they can stretch out, because I'd see that bull out in the pasture. And then in a little
1:19:20
patch of the, the trees up high, I'd see a big bull step into this little patch. And I'd get the
1:19:27
spot and scope on him quick. I'm like, surely that bull couldn't have moved that fast up there.
1:19:30
Sure enough, it's the big five. Yeah. So he was tempting me all day. He was,
1:19:35
he wasn't getting any closer to where we needed him to be. So it was getting to be, you know, kind of
1:19:44
time to where we had to make a plan for the evening. You know, hunting, you've been hunting
1:19:48
enough to where you know, like primetime is first thing in the morning, right before dark.
1:19:52
And so it was getting time to where we had to make a before, before dark plan,
1:19:58
knew that that big bull wasn't going to come out. So we, we decided to check a few other places,
1:20:03
drove around a little bit, got to some good spots, jumped out, checked this one little,
1:20:10
little opening. And my buddy of mine, I wish I could say his name, because he's such a professional,
1:20:16
like he, he grew up chasing those elk. He knew where every creek, every pond, every opening was on all
1:20:22
their thousands of acres of land. And it was just so cool. And he just had got back from a hunt from,
1:20:27
he was like in Kadirka stand or something, some kind of sheep. So he was in good shape. I thought
1:20:32
I was in good shape. Canadian finals was coming up in a month. So I was ready to go, but I was
1:20:37
wet and panting going up over tops, about to peak some hills. And I'd be like, just wait,
1:20:43
let me catch my breath in case there's something here, we got to shoot at and I got to pull off a
1:20:46
good shot. Yeah, I said, I can't keep up with you. So that being said, he kind of knew a little spot,
1:20:53
we could look into this opening. And we sure enough did. And like, if it was me, I would have
1:21:00
walked up to the opening looked in there. These cows would have seen us would have been gone. So
1:21:05
he got in this little spot where we could see look through the opening. Oh, there's some cows.
1:21:10
Let's let's sneak around. You know, it's it's rut. If there's cows, there's probably gonna be a bull.
1:21:15
So we we back out, we get snuck around, get the wind right. You know, there wasn't much wind at all.
1:21:24
We had to move really slow. And that's a cool part about when you're when you're hunting with
1:21:28
the good hunters, when you know, when it's when when there's a perfect wind, you got a perfect setup,
1:21:36
it's hard to or it's easy to fool people. But when it's tough, that's when you see like a true
1:21:43
good hunter. And like I said, I was fortunate enough to kind of know what that is with my dad
1:21:48
growing up with him. So we I was able to follow him around, we got the wind right,
1:21:54
we got to where we could see this opening to see if there was a bull. And before that happened,
1:21:59
a little, I don't know what he was a three by three bull kind of snuck in behind us. And he kind
1:22:05
of seen us, but didn't really, you know, younger bull. He seen some movement. Oh, there's some girls,
1:22:10
you know, just like humans, you know, young and dumb. Oh, some girls there, but he wouldn't ever go up
1:22:16
there to to go after these girls. So we're kind of pinned down. We were maybe, we're maybe 40 yards
1:22:24
from this opening. And we're pinned down rate, there was a there's a perfect spruce tree. It would
1:22:29
be in a perfect Christmas tree. Just imagine a tree between me and my buddy. And this, this bull
1:22:37
was maybe 50 yards beside us, I think he was. So he had us pinned down. Another bull come in,
1:22:43
little bull like same deal had us pinned down over here, maybe 60, 80 yards, it's all thick trees and
1:22:48
stuff that where we're at before this opening. And we finally got a glimpse of the bull, the big
1:22:54
daddy that was looking over and taking care of all the girls. It was a beautiful bull. And when I
1:23:00
first seen him, like I knew that and especially getting late in the evening as our last day of the
1:23:06
hunt, I think even if it was the first day of the hunt, I would have got the A.O.K. to go after
1:23:10
this bull. Like it was, it was a really nice bull. Like looked at him instantly new. So I was kind
1:23:17
of getting ready, getting my, getting my mind ready. You know, in case I had to pull off a shot because
1:23:23
rifle hunting is one thing, you know, put the axe on it, pulled the trigger, but bow hunting,
1:23:27
there's so many variables. I've been, I've never killed big game. I've killed some coyotes and
1:23:31
stuff like that, but I've never killed big game with my bow, been shooting it my whole life.
1:23:35
So get my mind right. Get the A.O.K. for my buddy. He's like, yep, that's a pretty nice bull.
1:23:42
And these cows started seeing that something was going on. They kind of busted us really.
1:23:49
They knew we were there, but we had, we had two windows we could shoot out of and that bull kind
1:23:55
of kept running back and forth, you know, keeping his girls in order. And these cows would kind of
1:24:00
look at us and the bull would round him up this and that. But then the bull would never step out
1:24:06
into the windows, but we were able to see like finally this, this bull was kind of walking towards
1:24:12
this cow that come in the opening. My buddy says, yeah, that cows 83 yards. So, you know,
1:24:20
we kind of geared in for that. I got an adjustable site, set it for, I think I just put it just
1:24:25
on top of my 80, my 80 yard deal. I'm running out of wind. I'm getting excited about this story.
1:24:31
Yeah. Yeah. Let's go. So this cow steps into the window, buddy ranges them at 83. And then
1:24:40
we can kind of just barely see these cow, this bull start coming over there. The cow steps out
1:24:45
of the window. He steps into the window. And so I draw my bow and he's just kind of barely
1:24:52
quartered away. I mean, not enough to even be able to tell hardly. So he's facing to the right.
1:24:58
And I draw my bow. My buddy says, yeah, 83 yards. He must have stepped right in her tracks.
1:25:06
And then I remember, I remember the last three arrows that I shot, you know, when when everything
1:25:11
just zones in at that time, like, you know, everyone says everything's slow motion. Yeah. So it was
1:25:17
one of those moments as I drew my bow back. And I remember my last three shots at my target
1:25:23
at 80 yards. I remember they were a hair low and a hair to the right for whatever reason.
1:25:29
But I remembered that as I drew my bow, so I aim just barely high and barely to the left, just to
1:25:36
like trick my mind almost, you know, I'm like, I'm not missing this ever. So I shot,
1:25:41
let my arrow go, waiting forever, waiting forever. In my mind, I'm like, dang it, I missed,
1:25:49
knew I missed. All of a sudden smack. I was like, frick. I shot over him. It hit a tree in the back.
1:25:59
I was 100% sure. I was like, dang it, told my boys like, I missed him. Did you hear that? Like,
1:26:04
it was super loud smack. Just like, like, I thought I hit a 12 inch tree, 20 yards behind them,
1:26:10
30 yards behind them. Because of how long it took to get there. And they run off. It's,
1:26:16
it's probably an hour before dark. So we give it just a minute. We wanted to go check,
1:26:23
make sure I did miss, didn't find any blood. Dang it, thought I missed. Well, let's go get my
1:26:29
arrow in the tree behind. There's turns out there's no trees behind for about 90 yards. So I'm like,
1:26:36
well, I guess, I mean, maybe that's why it took so long to make that smack. Couldn't find my arrow,
1:26:40
couldn't find my arrow. I'm like, I guess we better, we better back out. I was working for
1:26:47
my dad at the time, he wanted me back the next morning. But I'm like, nope, I got to go look
1:26:52
for this bull. See if I hit him or something, you know, or at least find my arrow. And just to be
1:26:57
sure my dad being a good old boy used to hunt, he's like, Oh yeah, yeah, you got to go look.
1:27:02
And so we backed out there, we got right beside that Christmas tree that we said we stood beside.
1:27:08
And we looked at every single branch that it could have hit every twig that it could have hit.
1:27:14
Because I thought since how far back those trees were that there's no way that that
1:27:20
arrow went that far and hit a tree. So it must have hit a branch, a twig, whatever and deflected
1:27:26
and then hit a tree. So we went back and we, you know, there's tricks you can do, you can look
1:27:31
through binoculars and and focus them in on closer and farther stuff. So we did that.
1:27:36
Looked at every branch. Looked at every tree. It could have hit nothing, couldn't find nothing.
1:27:42
So my buddy, like I said, he knows every creek, every river. And we kind of seen the way those
1:27:47
cows went. So we, we went all the way around way, way farther than we thought they would go.
1:27:54
If we did spook them, just just to maybe either get another chance at him or, or if he was hurt,
1:28:02
said did hit him in the back leg or something like that, that we figured he would have held up in
1:28:07
that area. So we went way around few miles, come back in, nothing, nothing, walk all the way back
1:28:13
up. We'd put a stake rate where I shot them where I, where I thought I hit him. Like I went and
1:28:20
stood and we, we counted off 80 yards, put a peg there, you know, just to, just to know. So we got
1:28:25
all the way back to the peg and we're like, I don't know, let's, let's go back to the brush.
1:28:31
Let's get 30 yards apart and go, go walking down there, you know, didn't find a drop of blood,
1:28:36
didn't find a, nothing. And, uh, I think I was maybe, I don't know, 100 yards in front of my buddy
1:28:44
and all of a sudden he haulers. Oh, here he is. And I didn't, I didn't believe it at the time.
1:28:48
Cause like I said, I thought I hit a tree, not a drop of blood. Sure enough, we walk over there
1:28:54
and I seen him, I seen him laying there. He had, he'd kind of died running. So his feet were kind
1:29:00
of under him, but his head was up. So I could just see his, I could just see his antlers, you know,
1:29:05
he was facing away and you know, that big ended up being a six by seven bull, just big, beautiful
1:29:12
bull. You know, it was like all my, all my dreams coming through and I thought I had missed him.
1:29:16
And it was cool. He didn't, he didn't bleed a drop and I had shot a hair high and a hair to the left.
1:29:24
Right. Like I, I probably shot within five inches of where I was aiming. Just remember,
1:29:29
I said I had to trick my mind, but it was like high in the lungs. I got both lungs really good,
1:29:34
but it was high in the lungs. So he never bled. It just, it filled up his lungs. And I think we
1:29:40
counted it like 120 yards. So shoot, I don't know how long does it take? Like I said,
1:29:46
you'd be surprised how quick an elk can travel. Yep. So however long that took to go 120 yards, I
1:29:52
mean, eight seconds, maybe he was dead. So that was cool that way too. You know, and that was my
1:29:58
biggest fear was, you know, hit him bad, having him suffer. You know, we don't hunters don't hunt
1:30:03
for animals to suffer. You know, we do it to feed our family and stuff. And that, that ties into
1:30:09
what you were saying about, about the worst part of the story at the end. So wait in a day, it wasn't
1:30:17
that cool of an evening. So that dang sure didn't play a very good role waiting a full day to, I
1:30:24
guess it wasn't a full day. It was probably, it's probably 12 hours by the time we found them to
1:30:30
wear it when I shot him. Maybe a little, no, it would have been longer than that, I guess,
1:30:34
maybe 16 hours, we'll see. And so yeah, we found him, took some beautiful pictures.
1:30:40
That's what my buddy, he's all about taking some good pictures, you know, on or on the elk. They,
1:30:45
they love him. That's why they don't let people hunt there, because they, they love the elk. And,
1:30:49
and they got, and remind me to tell you about the five by five store or two. Yeah. At the end,
1:30:54
but they, they love their elk. They honor them. They take pictures of them. And we got him all
1:31:00
field dressed. And we were able to actually drive the truck pretty close. So it was easy,
1:31:04
it was easy, huh? Well, I think we only had to pack meat. I don't know a couple hundred yards,
1:31:08
which is not bad at all. A lot of hunters have to pack them 10 miles or maybe more. So,
1:31:14
so it was easy that way. I, we don't butcher our own, I guess, like we don't, we do sometimes,
1:31:23
I guess we'll quartered out ourselves or not quartered out, like the bonet and everything. And, but,
1:31:28
we just didn't have the setup at this time. So I got calling around all the butcher shops and
1:31:34
everyone is full. Seems like, and it's funny because usually early, both season, there's not as many
1:31:41
kills and stuff, but like middle of November, I could see those places being right full, but
1:31:46
for whatever reason, I call three or four different shops in the area and they couldn't get me in
1:31:51
and come that evening. The next day, I think we got, we got a friend of a friend who's got,
1:31:58
he does his own butchering or something. So we brought it there and the long story short,
1:32:02
it ended up being bad. So, so that was, that was pretty sad. You know, great, big North American
1:32:09
elk, what kind of hell that meat had to go to waste just because of, just because of that. So I
1:32:15
guess we need to start butchering our own or something because that was, that was pretty sad. But,
1:32:20
you know, I, I put that buck, or not buck, I put that bull online, put a picture of him and
1:32:25
I, I ended up getting him out and he's, he's on my, he's on the wall in our shop next to my
1:32:32
dad's, which mine's way bigger. That's right. But, yeah, no, it ended up being, you know,
1:32:38
a great bull. I think he ended up scoring 340, which I don't, I don't know, for my first big
1:32:47
game archery kill, I think, Brittany, everyone's happy with a 300 plus bull and then my first
1:32:52
archery kill on a North American elk to be over 300. I was, I mean, I would have been happy with
1:32:58
a dang spiker with me. I would have been happy with a spiker, but to, to kill that nice of a bull,
1:33:04
my first chance and then, you know, like I said, from an only go 120, 130 yards, that was, that was
1:33:11
special too. And just to be able to have that heightened focus to where when you're shooting 83
1:33:20
yards with a bow that it take that in your mind, it feels like it takes so long that I thought
1:33:26
I missed them. And then it hit a tree 30 yards behind them was just crazy. Like that was that
1:33:32
smacking of the ribs. It went through both, it went through both sides of them. I was able to
1:33:36
find the arrow and stuff. It had, we found it up on the outside of the opening that we shot them.
1:33:43
The arrow had a, it had, there was a perfect line on the tree where it went through, it went
1:33:49
through like 90% and was sticking on the outside of them and it just touched that tree. So there
1:33:53
was a perfect line. The three quarters of my arrow was right there on the ground and then the rest
1:33:58
of it was just barely sticking out of them the other side. So it was cool. Like I got a picture
1:34:03
of him and I got the arrow I used hanging up on the wall plus him on the wall. So it was super neat.
1:34:09
And then like I said, to finish the story about the five by five. So this was two years ago,
1:34:16
two seasons ago. And my buddy never, he never did see the five by five all year this year.
1:34:22
Didn't know one, no word of them. I mean, he was kind of famous. There's other cowboys that
1:34:29
live in there actually that, that hunt as well that know about him and have his sheds. I mean,
1:34:34
he was getting to be kind of prestigious bull. Yeah. So a guy ended up shooting him with a rifle
1:34:38
end of this year. He had a broke off time and he still won the big game award on score. I
1:34:46
forget what he scored, but he was just so big with a broken time being a five by five. I think
1:34:51
he was a six on the one side, but he still won the big game deal. So we had a chance at him, but,
1:34:57
but I think it worked out exactly the way it was supposed to. So it was pretty fun. It was probably
1:35:02
his top three experience of my, my life for sure. So are you going to get a chance to go back
1:35:05
and hunt this or was I don't want it done? I'm not sure. I've got a draw. It's probably a 16 year
1:35:12
draw, maybe 15 year draw, something between there. So I'm getting to be about that time. I might
1:35:17
have to put in and if I get it, I might have to drop a hint to my buddy that I need to go back
1:35:22
out there again. But yeah, we'll see. I don't know. I was pretty thankful that they just let me go
1:35:26
out there one time. Oh, that's, that's the thing. Any time that I go hunt, because I go hunt white
1:35:31
tail at my buddy's property here in Oklahoma, that's, it's pretty close to the house, you know,
1:35:35
can get there very easily. They do a great job with it. And like, I never take it for granted,
1:35:41
because I've, I've literally watched, you know, I only use any of the people's names, but we're
1:35:45
out there one year. I think it was the night before opening a rifle. And there was a guy that,
1:35:50
you know, was more known to the other people. I'd kind of seen him at church a couple of times or
1:35:54
whatever. And we're figuring out because there's a bunch of different stands and there's like a big
1:35:58
map up on the wall. So we all eat dinner and then we go over the map on the wall. We're figuring out,
1:36:01
you know, where people want to go. Now, me understanding reciprocity and not being a jerk,
1:36:06
I don't make any recommendations, right? And I don't volunteer myself for any of the best spots,
1:36:10
right? Because the people that own the property, the people that work the property year around that
1:36:14
were out there hunting with us. It's like, okay, yeah, like I'll hunt wherever y'all don't want to hunt.
1:36:19
Well, apparently this guy will wanted to hunt a particular blind because he had a good feeling
1:36:24
about or something like that. But one of the other people who works the land throughout the entire
1:36:30
year and helps get it ready and get the corn out and all that his like 15 year old or 16 year old
1:36:35
son wanted to hunt that stand. And so like that's where the kid was going to be put. And this adult
1:36:41
male in his 40s got so mad that he didn't get his way on a property that he didn't own and didn't
1:36:48
have to pay to hunt that he said he doesn't say a word, he grabs his bag, gets in his truck, takes
1:36:53
off, doesn't say a word to anybody. And like, I'm looking around, and then I go and look out where
1:36:59
all the cars are, I'm like, wait, did such and such someone said, did he leave? And they were all
1:37:04
looking around like, wait, and that's exactly what what this guy did. And I'm sitting there like,
1:37:08
you were literally, because on this land, I mean, you're probably you're going to get something during
1:37:12
the season, right? You know, maybe a good size dough might be a decent, you know, buck. Yeah, there's
1:37:16
action. Yeah, and they, you know, most of the experience hunters, they're like, you're only
1:37:20
taking real shooters, but if it's a guy's first time, if it's brown, it's down, right? He'll let
1:37:24
you shoot a spike or yearly. It doesn't matter. But I just that guy is going to be the guy that I
1:37:29
always think about if I ever feel entitled to someone's land or entitled to a hunting opportunity.
1:37:35
Compared to that. Yeah, I mean, I've been invited by this great family to hunt elk in New Mexico,
1:37:41
and you know, had good buddies, Heath, you know, when Jobe was here last week, we did an episode
1:37:45
where we talk about, yeah, when we talked about that hunt, it's just like, what was the main theme
1:37:51
of us all three talking about it? Yeah, you got the story and all that. But it's the same thing
1:37:55
that you said, Kyle's thankfulness of the opportunity. Every time I get an animal on the ground,
1:37:59
I pray over that animal with whoever I'm there with, I pray and thank, thank them for the hunt,
1:38:04
thank you for nature, thank you for the provision and the food that this will provide to my family
1:38:08
and to other people, other families and all that. And so yeah, it's just, it's just a good way to go
1:38:13
about it. So like if you're out there and you get an opportunity to hunt, because a lot of guys have
1:38:16
started doing jiu-jitsu because of the shows are working out because of the show and me hunting,
1:38:20
yeah, like, you know, I'm really learning how to hunt in my thirties because I didn't grow up
1:38:23
doing it, right? Yeah, I've heard about mistakes. So that's my four-year-old and five in three-year-old
1:38:29
sons right now that they, you know, kind of grow up being around hunting. But but man, we, we got
1:38:33
to get you up to Guyman here before too long. So I'm thrilled that you were able to come through
1:38:38
and stop for a while and come out to the studio. But anything else you want to get off your chest?
1:38:42
Shoot. I don't think so. I was gonna bug you. I don't know if you've ever done it on the show or
1:38:47
not. Let's go. But I've seen, I bet it's been under two shows have done this. They either start or
1:38:54
they finish with praying. So I just want you to pray for us and for the viewers and everyone to
1:39:00
close it out. That'd be, that'd be great. Let's do it. Heavenly Father, I just thank you so much
1:39:04
at this time. Thank you for Kyle. Thank you for his family and thank you for what you've provided
1:39:08
for him. Lord, you've given us so many blessings and there's the ones that are very obvious to us,
1:39:13
the ones that we can see, and then there's the ones that we cannot. Lord, we just thank you,
1:39:16
especially for the blessings that we can't see. And we just hope that one day you will reveal that
1:39:20
to us. But I pray that you will continue to guide his steps and to guide the steps of all the men
1:39:24
that are listening to the show. It's your son's precious, strong and holy name that we pray. Amen.
1:39:29
Amen. Our brother, sweet. Thanks. Thank you for listening to this podcast. Wherever you're listening
1:39:34
to this, please subscribe, rate, and leave us a positive five-star review. If you want me to come
1:39:38
speak live at your event or on your podcast, shoot me an email to info@undonton.life. That's
1:39:43
I-N-F-O @undonton.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website
1:39:48
for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way.
1:39:51
Just go to www.undonton.life. And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing
1:39:56
us to use their music for our content. The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua,
1:40:00
which is off their self-titled debut album on Face Down Records. The links are in the description.
1:40:05
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual,
1:40:11
mental and physical resilience, keep seeking the lion of Judah.
1:40:35
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