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1:17
This is Undaunted Life a Man's Podcast.
1:20
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
1:21
Let's get into it.
1:22
All right, guys.
1:23
We've got a special guest on the podcast today.
1:25
Her name is Katie Faust, so she is a children's rights advocate, and she's also the founder
1:29
and president of Them Before Us, which is a global movement defending children's right
1:34
to their mother and father.
1:36
She's written several books, but the one we're focusing on today is really the center point
1:41
scaffolding of our conversation, which is Them Before Us, why we need a global children's
1:45
rights movement.
1:47
Here's the thing.
1:48
I was introduced to her earlier this year when she was on the Jordan Peterson podcast,
1:52
so I listened just about all those episodes, and I was just struck at how forcefully she
1:56
was speaking on these things and really a lot of topics and philosophies that are kind
2:01
of incendiary and our third rail topics for a lot of people and just how she approached
2:06
the interview.
2:07
I was just like, "She's going to be perfect and fantastic for our podcast.
2:10
Reach out to our team."
2:11
We got this squared away.
2:12
I think we're going to end up doing an hour, then I reach back out to our team.
2:15
As I dug even further into her work, I was reading her books, and I was like, "We're
2:17
going to need at least an hour and a half," so I think we even went over that.
2:21
The funny thing about it is she wasn't always this way as you're about to see.
2:26
She was a pastor's wife and full-time stay-at-home mom, and then she created the secret blog because
2:31
by her own admission, she was too chicken to come out with some of these opinions because
2:35
she had some very strong opinions about children and the rights they should have and how families
2:39
should operate and things like that, but a gay blogger outed her and put her information
2:44
out there, it was causing problems in her home church and all that, and so she was kind
2:48
of stuck with this dissonance of like, "Do I keep going or do I shut this down now that
2:53
I've been outed?"
2:54
Some godly men in her life said, "No, you're going to keep going and you're just going
2:57
to go bigger."
2:58
We talk about children's rights.
3:00
What is that?
3:01
Why do most people know about pro-life stuff or pro-whatever the thing is, anti-trans stuff,
3:05
but they don't really know about this pro-children's rights thing, and we talk about her focus
3:09
mainly being that children have a right to their mother and father, and that's kind of
3:13
the bedrock of a lot of things that we talked about.
3:15
It's children's rights versus what adults think are their rights, but then we talk about
3:19
natural rights versus legal rights, but then we get into a lot of incendiary topics.
3:24
We talk about fatherlessness and the literal epidemic that that is.
3:28
Why biology matters so much, why it's so essential for kids to have access to their mother and
3:33
their father, but also how gender matters because in modern society we talk about equality,
3:39
and we use it in the same breath as sameness.
3:42
Men and women can be equal, but we're certainly not the same.
3:45
How does that reflect?
3:46
How people view toxic masculinity, what most people would say is toxic, but then we talked
3:51
about why marriage is so important and the scourge that divorces, certainly no fault
3:56
divorce and the issues that that creates downstream for the children.
3:59
We get into same sex parenting and how the issue in those circumstances is not necessarily
4:05
the gay parents.
4:06
It's the missing parent.
4:08
It's either the biological mom or the biological dad and that if you stick with us, I mean,
4:13
well over an hour into this, we talk about IVF and surrogacy.
4:17
I know when I've talked about IVF and surrogacy before, it's up there at the tippy top of the
4:22
things that have caused a lot of issues for people in my audience because I've gone on
4:26
record to save my issues, the issues with the IVF process, the moral implications of creating
4:32
a whole bunch of human beings that will never see the light of day outside the womb.
4:38
In doing that on purpose, the issues that it causes with surrogacy and removing the types
4:44
of mothers from a child's life because a kid has a genetic mother, a birth mother and a
4:48
social mother and that should be all the same person and whenever you do surrogacy and IVF,
4:54
in some of these cases, you're in effect separating all of these women and making some of those
4:58
women even optional.
5:00
You get into that and she has very, very, very strong opinions on that, really strong opinions
5:04
on everything.
5:05
I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation today.
5:07
I'm sure you will as well.
5:08
So guys without further ado, let's get into it.
5:12
Katie Fals, welcome to Dawn of Life of Man's podcast.
5:15
We're looking to be with you and all of your BJJ boys.
5:19
We got, yeah, we got a lot of jujitsu guys in the audience and they are super psyched,
5:22
but they don't know it yet because maybe they're not familiar with you, even though I did tell
5:25
them about you and the introduction here, you and I hit it off off air.
5:28
I figured, let's go ahead and start this recording.
5:30
Let's get this thing going.
5:31
Oh, good idea.
5:32
Like we're going to give you gentlemen a different kind of rolling today.
5:35
Yeah, it'll be a different kind of rolling, but it'll still be aggressive, right?
5:38
You're still going to come out with like, you know, things, maybe busted ears or noses.
5:41
We'll see how it goes.
5:43
But you have such an interesting story, Katie, and I first became aware of you and the work
5:47
that you've done whenever you appeared on the Jordan Peterson podcast, and I was like,
5:50
oh my gosh, we got to find this, this gal and get her on the show.
5:53
And your start to what you're doing now doesn't really fit because your start was, okay,
5:59
Andrew's wife, full time stay at home mom.
6:02
We love, we love those, those gals in our audience.
6:04
We have a lot of them in our audience, actually.
6:06
But then you went from that to secret blogger, right?
6:10
And so it's like, all right, we're going to do this thing behind closed doors.
6:13
And you actually said, I think in one of your other interviews that you start, or maybe
6:16
in one of the books, that you started the anonymous blog because you were too chicken,
6:20
right?
6:21
You used the word chicken.
6:22
You were too afraid of the negative backlash.
6:23
So let's start there.
6:24
How do you go from just this, you know, you know, quiet gal who's just going to take care
6:28
of the home and take care of all that kind of stuff to, no, I'm going to start throwing
6:31
bombs in a culture.
6:32
Yeah, the one word, rage, I just became enraged.
6:37
And like I am at nature, like a peacekeeper and a grace giver, like offline, if the world
6:46
was not on fire, all I would do would be read the Bible and pray with people and go sit
6:50
near them when they're in the hospital or when they just got the diagnosis or they just found
6:55
out that their husband committed adultery or whatever, like I just am a shepherdess.
7:00
That's all I want to do.
7:01
I don't like to lose friends.
7:03
I don't like to create conflict.
7:05
I just want to bring as many people in to my personal space as possible because I want
7:10
to give them access to God.
7:12
So this is out of my kind of natural disposition, except, except when you victimize the vulnerable.
7:22
And that is what I saw.
7:23
You know, that had been happening on a mass scale through abortion for a long time.
7:27
But in some sense, I was like, you know what, there's enough people fighting that.
7:31
There's so many pro-life organizations and I'll support them and I'll cheer them on.
7:35
But I feel like there isn't necessarily the need in terms of the space to get in there.
7:41
But it was in the area of marriage and family where I saw victimization of children and
7:46
nobody speaking up about it, or at least speaking up the way that I thought was going
7:49
to be the most effective, which is from the perspective of defending their fundamental
7:53
natural rights to be known and loved by their mother and father.
7:56
There were plenty of people pushing back on gay marriage because it was, you know, an
8:00
affront to a religious institution or it was going to, you know, mean that somebody might
8:05
have to bake a cake that they don't want to bake, which is not necessarily like, in my
8:09
opinion, the way to motivate people to get involved in the culture war.
8:12
To me, I was like, no, this is about victimization of children.
8:16
So I did start the anonymous blog because I wanted to speak up, but I didn't want the
8:21
heat.
8:23
And thank God, you know, I was able to develop a lot of these ideas and find the holes in
8:27
my argument in relative obscurity for a couple of years.
8:31
And then when I was outed by a tolerant and loving gay blogger who ended up doing the
8:35
members of my church to get me to shut up, by that time I had a pretty well developed
8:41
message and understood the scope of what this, this, you know, project needed to entail.
8:47
So yeah, I got into it slowly and I'm really grateful for that in some ways.
8:53
So let's talk about that a little bit more because yeah, you were outed.
8:56
So you thought you could kind of, you know, in your own way, you hide behind your keyboard
9:00
and kind of do that whole thing anonymously.
9:02
But I'm also interested by what you said because yes, in the conservative space or the Christian
9:06
space where at large, there are the pro lifers that really advocate for the unborn.
9:11
They're the people that advocate for, you know, normal families and, you know, not going,
9:15
not going into gay marriage and just like different types of ministries.
9:19
And so with like my show, we cover faith culture, politics, not necessarily in that order and
9:23
not always a third, a third, a third, we cover what we cover.
9:26
And so I have opinions and philosophies on a wide range of different topics and a lot
9:31
of those topics I go really, really deep on.
9:34
But ultimately I'm here to equip men to push back darkness.
9:37
And so people would say, well, why aren't I got a guy that like, Hey, he invited me,
9:41
Hey, come to ministry with me at Eagle Pass, you know, I'm going out there to share the
9:44
gospel.
9:45
And I said, man, it sounds like that's the race that God has for you, like Godspeed.
9:48
And he responded back like, Oh, you're just some fake podcaster.
9:51
I invite you to come down to do the real work of the gospel and you won't do it.
9:54
It's like, that's your race, brother.
9:56
That's right.
9:57
Like run your race and let me do what I can to help you run your race.
10:00
That's not my race.
10:01
And so, you know, I think that that's something that you could flow on even a little bit as
10:04
well because there's a billion different things you could have done, Katie, and you could have
10:08
just stayed anonymous and served your household and did exactly what Eve was told to do, which
10:13
was to be a helpmate fit for Adam.
10:15
But you've kind of evolved past that.
10:17
I don't mean that negatively to anyone who's doing that, but that's just the trajectory
10:20
that your life took.
10:21
Yeah.
10:22
Well, and you know, even before I jumped into the, you know, most contentious culture
10:26
war issues of our time, I learned through ministry that every need is not a call.
10:31
There are needs all around us.
10:33
And it's very hard, especially, I think, for women to not respond to every single need
10:37
in their world because we are helpmates, because we are natural, like, shepherdises,
10:42
because we look a little bit more naturally towards the needs of others.
10:46
And if there's a need in our world, we want to meet it.
10:48
So I like was very close to the edge of burnout in ministry for a long time because every
10:53
need felt like a call to me.
10:55
So I had to like learn that in my personal life, that just because there's a need that
10:58
doesn't mean I'm called to do it.
11:00
And certainly that is the case when it comes to like kind of looking at all of the different
11:04
ways that culture is going astray, let's just, that's a very gentle way of putting it.
11:10
And so I didn't feel called to the anti-abortion work, but I will tell you, I could not escape
11:16
the call to fight on behalf of children and matters of marriage and family.
11:20
Part of it was because I did feel like I had the angle that needed to be amplified, not
11:27
me, but because God had developed it in me through a lot of decades of interacting with
11:34
people that disagreed, holding fast to the word of truth in a way that does not unnecessarily
11:39
trigger but neither will allow you to take one step away from God's truth.
11:44
But then also reading and watching and seeing and following what was happening in the conversation,
11:50
the national conversation around marriage and family and reproductive technologies.
11:54
And that's a lot of times how you find your calling is you will watch what's happening
11:58
in the space that you're curious about and you'll say, "Oh man, I love his work and
12:03
I love her writing and I love the way she thinks and this podcast is my favorite."
12:06
And then at some point you're going to go, "Why isn't anybody doing that?
12:10
This is the thing that nobody's doing.
12:12
There's such a vacuum, there's such a hole here."
12:15
That's a very good indication that that is God saying, "Yes, and you are going to fill
12:19
that hole."
12:20
So that's what happened with me.
12:21
Like I was watching the national conversation, especially around gay marriage, I was listening
12:26
to churches trying to figure out that balance between grace and truth.
12:29
And I felt like no church was getting it exactly right, it was either so much grace
12:34
that they would never speak up or so much truth that they closed their heart to people
12:38
that disagreed.
12:39
You know, on the national conversation it was obsessively focused on the adults in the
12:43
pro-gay marriage camp.
12:44
And in the conservative camp it was obsessively focused on Christian adults and their rights
12:50
and what they were going to lose.
12:51
And I was like, "Good God people, stand on the word of God because child protection
12:56
is and always has been one of the manifestations of our pure and undefiled religion before God.
13:02
This all has to be about kids."
13:03
So you'll probably, as you're listening to this podcast and the other ones, figure out
13:08
like, "Okay, I do have these things that are stirring up in me, this calling that I have."
13:13
And it's probably going to be something that you feel like nobody else is doing.
13:16
That's a good indication that you should probably step into that space.
13:20
What no one else is doing and are you doing it uniquely?
13:22
I get asked all the time, like, "Hey, Kyle, I'm thinking about starting a podcast.
13:26
What's your advice for me?"
13:27
And they're thinking, "I'm going to list out some, you know, here are some good to-dos
13:30
and best practices."
13:31
And I'm like, "Yeah, you probably just shouldn't do it."
13:33
And they're like, "Wait, what?"
13:34
I'm like, "Well, there's six and a half million podcasts already.
13:36
Are you going to be saying it and thinking about it differently, whatever it is than everybody
13:41
else?"
13:42
And I mean, when you look at any culture and you can go back to tribal cultures, when you
13:46
worship the creation around you, even if you don't acknowledge it as creation, right?
13:50
When you worship the earth, when you worship the sun, it always ends up with child sacrifice
13:54
does it not?
13:55
Right?
13:56
Because you have these people groups that, you know, their crops aren't getting watered
14:00
because it hasn't rained in a while, and so what do they do?
14:02
They sacrifice even more children to whatever deity that they've made up.
14:06
And one thing as well is a lot of people find themselves in your position where they don't
14:12
want to, I think you said it, unnecessarily trigger somebody or needlessly trigger somebody.
14:17
And just by how I operate in the world, I will trigger people just by my general disposition
14:21
and how forward I am.
14:23
But a lot of the world, it's necessary to trigger people because if somebody is going to repent
14:29
and believe and put their full faith, their full weight of their faith into the gospel
14:33
of Jesus Christ, goodness gracious, something had to trigger that decision.
14:37
For some people, it's a needle in their arm with a belt wrapped around it, and then they
14:40
almost died, should have died, but didn't, oh my gosh, that's it.
14:43
And for other people, they're just in a wana and they're nine years old and they realize,
14:46
"Oh my gosh, I'm a wretched, black-hearted sinner, I'm not a, you know, perfect little
14:51
snowflake."
14:52
And if I don't have Jesus, I have nothing.
14:54
And so there's that necessary triggering that needs to go on.
14:56
But for you, I'm curious, Katie, because I've only known bold, Katie, bold, public, very
15:03
pointed, not, not needlessly divisive, not offensive for the sake of being offensive,
15:08
but very, very precise and pointed in your positions, and we're going to get into them
15:12
today.
15:13
And gosh, it's going to be triggering for a lot of people.
15:16
Just tell me about the process of your own maturation to where it goes from like, "I'm
15:20
too chicken to make sure people know that my actual name is here," to now to where it's
15:24
like, "Not only am I going to sign my name to it, I'm going to stamp it, double stamp it."
15:28
Well, I didn't come out by choice.
15:31
Like I was outed by this gay blogger who then tried to punish people at my church that didn't
15:35
even know that I was blogging so that I would shut up, because at that point I had gained
15:40
a bit of a following, even though I wasn't writing under my own name.
15:43
And I went to the elders of my church, and I was like, "You guys, I am so sorry," because
15:47
now our church is getting all kinds of negative Yelp reviews by people that have never even
15:50
been there before, and the people are discovering that their names and addresses and pictures
15:56
are online on some powerful gay blogger.
15:58
And I mean, I came to them and I said, "I will stop if you want me to stop."
16:01
I'm like, "If I am Jonah, you need to throw me overboard so that the storm will cease.
16:06
I totally understand it.
16:07
I will stop."
16:08
And then the very good men at my church said, "Yeah, you could stop or you could go really
16:12
big."
16:13
And I was like, "Okay."
16:15
And so shout out to good men who are like, "We're not going to shrink back."
16:20
And every need is not a call.
16:21
They didn't all suddenly feel like they need to start blogging about this, but they felt
16:25
called to protect one of their sheep.
16:27
My husband was the pastor of the church at the time, but we kind of removed ourselves
16:32
from that decision and let the other men make that choice.
16:36
And so what did I end up doing?
16:37
I never had like a five or 10-year plan.
16:40
My plan was obey God every day with all of my might.
16:44
And so I would get email requests, like, "Do you want to go lead a workshop at the United
16:48
Nations?
16:49
Will you come to Australia and speak to our members of parliament?
16:52
Will you submit an amicus brief to the Supreme Court?"
16:54
So I just started saying yes to whatever showed up.
16:57
And it grew not because I was planning and ordaining to someday be on the advisory board
17:02
for Jordan Peterson's new project, but just because I was like, "I'm going to respond
17:07
to whatever it is that the Lord puts in my path today and I'm going to do it zealously
17:12
and with excellence as much as the spirit will allow me to."
17:15
So that's the story.
17:17
It's kind of a story of incrementalism and reactiveness, not necessarily pro-activeness.
17:23
And there has been a thickening of my skin that has needed to develop.
17:27
But I still feel worried about what people say.
17:30
And I still get my feelings hurt if somebody says, "You're a hateful bigot."
17:34
And I'm like, "I'm actually not, I'm really, really mean."
17:37
But I've just had to learn to, like, my feelings don't determine my actions, like obedience
17:41
determines my actions.
17:43
Well, and Katie, you mentioned like five to 10-year plan and all that.
17:46
I always tell people, I'm like, "God has to look at your five to 10-year plan for your
17:49
life and think that is just super precious."
17:51
Like, "Oh my gosh, you don't think you're going to get sick.
17:53
Oh my gosh, you don't think you're going to get fired.
17:55
Oh my gosh, you think all the people around you are still going to be alive and still
17:58
like you.
17:59
What are you talking about?"
18:00
And one of the same things with me is I have a tendency to focus on the negative.
18:04
I am very pessimistic, but I try to use my pessimism as a superpower, right?
18:08
So, you know, if you and I are working on a project together, I'm just going to assume
18:11
you're not going to do your part because if I'm, if you don't do your part, then I'm
18:16
right.
18:17
And if you do your part, then I get to be pleasantly surprised, right?
18:18
So I try to use my pessimism as, you know, yeah, if at first you don't succeed, lower
18:23
your expectations.
18:24
And so like, but ultimately, I think people don't understand that when you put yourself
18:29
at the tip of the spear, and my buddy, Joe B. Martin, a pastor out of Florida, he says
18:34
it best whenever he was thinking about getting into ministry, he didn't say, you know, "God
18:39
lighten my load."
18:40
He said, "God broadened my shoulders, right?
18:42
Help me to be able to shoulder more burden."
18:45
And guess what?
18:46
You got to be surrounded by godly women in your case, godly men, in my case, that when
18:50
you're under the bar and the weight is simply too crushing for you to hold it by yourself,
18:54
well, guess what?
18:55
You got a couple of buddies that get up under each side, lift a little bit of that burden
18:58
off you, but we still keep going in the same direction.
19:01
And so the way we're going to structure today's conversation, we're actually going to do it
19:04
off of one of your three books.
19:05
So I've got three of your books here.
19:06
I've got Pro-Child Politics, which is solid.
19:09
I've got this one, great title, Raising Conservative Kids in a Woke City.
19:13
But the, really the scaffolding for our conversation today is going to be this book, your first
19:17
book, them before us, why we need a global children's rights movement.
19:21
And I just got to tell you, I've been in this conservative space, this Christian space for
19:25
a very, very long time.
19:27
I don't know that I had ever heard about that.
19:29
I had heard of the men's rights movements, which are all these dorks taking red pills
19:33
and, you know, looking at guys like Andrew Tate, like he's a savant.
19:36
And then I've heard of all these movements, but I'd never quite heard about the children's
19:39
rights movements.
19:40
Like, where have I been?
19:41
I've been paying attention, I've been reading the books, but it's just not been right in
19:44
front of me.
19:45
And the main focus of your work, I think this is a quote from your website, in the context
19:49
of family, children have a right to their mother and father.
19:52
When this right is ignored, children are commodified.
19:56
They become possessions to be cut and pasted into, and into any and every romantic adult
20:01
relationship.
20:02
That may actually be a quote from the book.
20:03
You nailed it.
20:04
You absolutely nailed it.
20:05
You're hired.
20:06
Literally I'm going to just bring you on to do all of our promo.
20:08
I'm just going to be your hype man.
20:09
I'm going to be your little John.
20:10
I'll be like, all right, pay attention to what Katie's saying.
20:12
But there's actually a follow up quote from the book, which is the children have been
20:15
required to make sacrifices to accommodate the adults.
20:18
And that was like an anvil, like, you know, from an old Looney Tunes cartoon, just bong
20:23
hit me in the head.
20:24
I'm like, of course, of course, we're violating children so that we could be more comfortable
20:30
so that we can be happy so that we can be fulfilled, whatever that means.
20:34
And so let's talk about, okay, how do you go?
20:37
Okay, I'm going to do this blog.
20:38
I'm going to talk about the things that I like.
20:39
I've got some thick rhino skin now in these different areas, but you know what?
20:43
No, we're going as deep.
20:45
We're going to go to the center of the earth as it pertains to the children's rights movement.
20:49
Yeah, I had a lot of discipleship along the way because I didn't come.
20:53
When I started blogging, I was like, kids need moms and dads.
20:56
Like I had worked in youth ministry for decades and I knew the harm of children who lost their
21:00
mom or dad or went through a family breakdown or their mother abandoned them or their father
21:04
ran off with the secretary.
21:06
And I like sat with those.
21:07
I mean, like I'm the shepherdess, I sat with those kids while they mourned and cried and
21:10
hated themselves.
21:11
Like, that's the problem is you lose your mother or father.
21:14
A lot of times it's not anger at the mother and father, it's self-loathing, self-loathing,
21:18
right?
21:19
There must be something wrong with me.
21:20
My father must not have wanted me there.
21:22
I'm the reason why my parents marriage broke up or what's so wrong with me that my mother
21:27
decided to take off and form a new family with somebody else and now she doesn't talk
21:30
to us anymore.
21:31
I mean, like kids interpret that as personal rejection.
21:35
So I knew that kids needed their mom and dad, but when I first started writing, I didn't
21:39
know that they had a natural right to their mom and dad.
21:41
I wasn't even familiar with the term natural rights.
21:44
I didn't know that it was a whole system of academic and philosophical study, but it
21:48
is.
21:49
It is natural rights is the basis on which Martin Luther King Jr. made his appeal to
21:54
our civil government to level the playing field for our black brothers and sisters.
21:59
So this is a philosophical stream that allows you to, in essence, create moral imperatives
22:06
without appealing to special revelation, right?
22:08
You're looking at the natural world and coming up with the ought, what we ought to do based
22:13
on looking at the natural realities of the world.
22:15
So based on that natural reality, you can come to the conclusion that Americans have
22:21
a right to free speech and a right to religious liberty and a right to self-protection.
22:26
I mean, those are natural rights, we didn't get those from the government.
22:30
The government exists to protect those through that same philosophical system of understanding
22:34
natural rights.
22:35
You can also understand that children have a right to life and children have a right to
22:40
be known and loved by both people responsible for their existence.
22:44
Now many of your listeners are probably familiar with the child's right to life and that doesn't
22:48
sound very foreign, but the reason why you're like, how have I never heard this before?
22:51
It is because outside of children's right to life, we don't talk about children's rights.
22:58
The other side does, if you Google the term children's rights, you are not going to find
23:02
them before us.
23:03
You are going to find international Planned Parenthood's curriculum on children's right
23:08
to sexual pleasure.
23:09
You are going to find a variety of different public school manuals that talk about children's
23:13
right to a transgender identity hidden from their parents at school.
23:17
We're going to see like a child's right to access pornographic material in their libraries.
23:23
So the left has so co-opted and adulterated the idea of children's rights that it actually
23:28
was a bit of a strategic decision for us to use that name and we decided to go for it
23:34
because number two, it is the right framing and number three, this term needs to be redeemed.
23:42
So we do spend quite a bit of time in that very first chapter of them before us why we
23:46
need a global children's rights movement defining what is a right, how do you know whether or
23:50
not something is a right because just because somebody really, really wants something, this
23:55
is how it works with adults.
23:56
If an adult really, really, really, really want something, they'll conveniently frame
24:01
it as a right.
24:02
I have a right to housing, I have a right to government funded birth control, I have
24:05
a right to marry, I have a right to choose, I have a right to parenthood.
24:08
So just because an adult calls something a right that does not make it a right, we actually
24:13
don't have a whole lot of fundamental natural rights.
24:17
And like the Incredibles would say, when everything becomes a right, nothing is a right.
24:21
And yet those fundamental natural rights are so critical to not only the protection of
24:26
the innocent, but overall national thriving.
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26:51
I think you're absolutely right and we don't couch things and look at them properly and
26:54
you're right.
26:55
I'm the scriptures escaping me right now because I got like 17 things that I'm thinking of,
26:59
but it's like, okay, we're going to call evil good and we're going to basically we're
27:04
going to go into bizarro world where the photo negative is what you're going to represent
27:08
but you're going to say it's truth and it all goes back to the garden.
27:10
Did God really say, did God really say he made you male and female?
27:14
Did God really say that you shouldn't have, you know, homosexual relationships?
27:18
Did God really say that you shouldn't step outside your marriage?
27:21
All those different things.
27:22
But let's go a little bit deeper on the rights talk because you're absolutely spot on.
27:26
It's whatever thing that I want that's kind of in my bag of goodies that I want and also
27:30
that I want for free.
27:31
I'm just going to call it a human right.
27:32
But in the book, you do delve deep into what a natural right is versus a legal right and
27:37
you make a distinction between those two categories because a lot of times natural rights and
27:41
legal rights do get conflated as you just talked about a little bit ago.
27:45
So again, it's all in the book.
27:46
So guys go get them before us is in the show notes.
27:49
Go check it out.
27:50
You know, the first couple of chapters are worth the price of admission, but you should
27:52
certainly keep reading.
27:53
It's between natural rights and legal rights.
27:56
Ready, set go.
27:57
Okay.
27:58
So, you know, I think it was Martin Luther King that said an unjust law is no law at all.
28:03
Okay.
28:04
So, and how do you know whether or not something is a just law?
28:05
It is a law that aligns with natural law.
28:08
Okay.
28:09
And so natural law is a pretty robust system to understand the morality of what kind of
28:14
laws we should be passing in which one.
28:16
So just because we've passed something into law that doesn't mean that it is a it is
28:19
a just law that civil law does not make something a right or make something not a right.
28:23
It's natural law does.
28:25
So we try to parse out my co-author Stacy Manning and I because we're both laypersons.
28:30
We are not natural lawyers.
28:31
We did have the forward written by one of the most preeminent natural law scholars in
28:35
the country, Robert George, but we kind of break it down.
28:38
Like if you really want to figure out what is and is not a natural right, we have the
28:42
three rules that make it a rights test, which we have found to be personally helpful.
28:46
Number one is a natural right just exists.
28:49
The government doesn't have to provide it for you.
28:52
And so like if you have the ability to open your mouth and speak, that's not something
28:55
the government gives you.
28:56
It's something that you have naturally your life, the government doesn't give you that.
29:01
It's something that you haven't naturally.
29:02
Okay.
29:03
So it exists outside of government.
29:05
It existed before government existed.
29:07
Okay.
29:08
So that's number one.
29:09
When you look at a child's right to be known and loved by both people responsible for their
29:13
existence, that is also pre government.
29:16
Nobody has to provide it for you.
29:17
The second one is that everybody gets it in equal measure.
29:22
Okay.
29:23
So if, you know, how many life do you have, Kyle, how much life do you have?
29:27
I get the one.
29:28
Yeah.
29:29
You're one.
29:30
I also have one.
29:31
Same with every other human on the planet.
29:32
You get exactly one equal distribution as a pretty good indicator that it's a natural
29:36
right.
29:37
How many parents do you have, Kyle?
29:38
I've got two.
29:39
I also have two.
29:40
It does not matter that my parents divorced, that my father dated and remarried, that my
29:44
mother repartnered with a woman.
29:46
I do not have more than two parents.
29:48
I have a mother and a father, like everybody else.
29:51
So if it can vary in degree or distribution, like a dorm room versus Mar-a-Lago or a GED
29:58
versus a PhD, it is not a natural right.
30:01
It might be something that you need to live.
30:03
You might even, your survival might even depend on it, but it's not necessarily a natural
30:07
right.
30:08
So nobody, ah, sorry, it existed pre government.
30:12
Everybody gets the same amount and nobody has to provide it for you.
30:14
Okay, so if it has to be, like, poured the foundation sheet-rocked, painted, and, you
30:19
know, put a door and a lock on it, it's not a natural right.
30:23
If it has to be dug up from the ground, bottled, shipped, labeled, and put on a shelf, it's
30:27
not a natural right.
30:28
Okay, nobody has to provide it for you.
30:30
It simply exists.
30:31
So those are the three rules that make it a rights test.
30:34
And when you look at things through that lens, you see that a lot of the things that
30:37
we call rights are actually commodities, or they're actually desires, or they're actually
30:43
just longings packaged as natural rights.
30:46
So I think it's really important to be very clear about what is and is not a natural right.
30:49
And then you draw the hard line around protecting those rights.
30:53
When you draw the line between natural and legal rights, and then you go back to the
30:58
U.S. Constitution, to the framers of the Constitution, to the Bill of Rights, you're like, oh, my
31:02
goodness.
31:03
So like when these people come up with this fantasy idea that we weren't founded as a
31:06
Christian nation, it's like, you just can't do that and keep your intellectual bonafides
31:12
squared away because these guys studied the Old Testament more than we did.
31:16
They looked at these ancient texts and yes, people like to bring up like Ben Franklin
31:20
was a philanderer and Thomas Jefferson was a DS and he cut up the Bible and made his
31:23
own Bible.
31:24
Yes.
31:25
But they also knew that this is the best way to do life, whether they believed in it or
31:28
not.
31:29
Right.
31:30
So all these other systems had been used and they just they were they were good.
31:33
And just like our book, the one that we're referencing, the U.S. Constitution has no Bible
31:38
verses in it, like nobody, I didn't make a biblical appeal, I didn't make a scriptural
31:43
appeal in our first book where we talk about the importance of children's natural rights
31:46
to their mother and father.
31:48
And the founders did not list, you know, verses from Genesis or, you know, the creation mandate
31:55
or anything like that.
31:56
They did not list any of that.
31:58
Both of these arguments are made on the basis of natural law.
32:02
And the way to think about this is how you know what you ought to do and what is true
32:06
by looking at the world of God, by looking at the world that he made, you can derive
32:12
these fundamentally universal truths.
32:15
Now interestingly, the world of God is never going to contradict the word of God.
32:20
In fact, they're going to align with one another and reinforce one another.
32:24
Why is that?
32:25
Because the world of God and the word of God have the same author and you can discover
32:31
the same truth by going those two different pathways.
32:34
But I would say the founders wisely chose to create a document based on natural law because
32:41
now you cannot reject it.
32:43
Even if somebody doesn't claim to be a Christian or even if you're not a Protestant, you have
32:48
a natural law system that is going to be true even for the Hindus that immigrate to the United
32:53
States and even for the people that say that they are atheists.
32:55
So we made the decision not just because it's right, but a tactical decision to say, I can
33:01
make these arguments about children's need for a mother and father using Malachi chapter
33:05
two and why God brought the two together as one because he was seeking godly offspring
33:09
or I can make this argument based on natural law, social science, the statistics and the
33:16
testimonies of children themselves who have been starved of their mother or father.
33:20
And we went with the latter case because it is a case that you cannot reject if you do
33:24
not recognize the special authority of scripture as your highest level of law giving information.
33:31
When there's so many anecdotes in the book, I'm gosh, they're just absolutely heartbreaking.
33:36
Like they just get hard to read.
33:39
And sometimes for me, even my parents got divorced and there's been, you know, a lot
33:42
of, a lot of things that have happened because of that.
33:44
And then I'm reading stuff.
33:45
I'm like, Oh my gosh, that's why I'm kind of insane.
33:47
And you're just kind of reading it through because you're seeing it through someone else's
33:50
lens.
33:51
There's, there's one, there's one quote before we start getting into the individual subjects.
33:54
There was one quote from the book that for whatever reason just caught me a scant.
33:57
And I think it's because I was viewing it differently.
33:59
But the quote is, thus it's imperative for adults to order their lives around the rights
34:04
of children.
34:05
So one thing that I've been teaching people for a while is, okay, when the lawyer was
34:08
trying to trip up Jesus in the gospels and ask them, Hey, what's the, what's the greatest
34:12
of all laws?
34:13
And Jesus said, love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.
34:17
And the second is like it.
34:18
You gave him another answer.
34:19
Love your neighbor as yourself.
34:20
Okay.
34:21
If you look at the narrative of scripture, who is, I'll use me, who is my primary neighbor,
34:25
my primary neighbor is Kelsey Thompson, my spouse, right, who, you know, I am one flesh
34:30
with and all the things, right?
34:32
My secondary neighbor are my boys, James and Elijah, who I am to raise up in the nurture
34:36
and admonition of the Lord.
34:38
And I'm going to have to give an account someday for how I have shepherded and headed the household
34:41
and the spiritual development of Kelsey, James and Elijah, tertiary.
34:46
My neighbors are everybody else and everything else.
34:49
And so that was like front of brain.
34:51
And then I read that.
34:52
I was like, wait a minute.
34:53
Like I've, I've heard guys give advice like he had a kid, you know, Katie, you've, you've
34:56
seen this because you've, you've obviously raised kids, but you have, you have a kid,
34:59
you and your spouse are talking and the kids just like, dad, dad, dad, hey, dad, hey,
35:04
dad, can you look?
35:05
Hey dad.
35:06
And my buddy, he turns to his kid and he says, look, if you and your mom were bolts rounding
35:10
at the same time, not only would I jump in and save her first, I would take the time
35:14
to dry her off before I worried about you.
35:17
Now, people are like, I got the semi and I said, no, you're letting the kid know when
35:22
you are launched as an arrow into the future as part of my progeny, it's still me and your
35:27
mama.
35:28
Right.
35:29
So you do not, you do not get the full focus and attention.
35:32
So help me kind of bring all these thoughts together.
35:34
Cause I know you come at this from a biblical worldview.
35:36
Well, first, let me say that what we are talking about at them before us is defending and
35:40
prioritizing children's fundamental natural rights.
35:44
Not everything children want, not everything that they demand.
35:47
We are saying they have fundamental natural rights around which you must orient your life.
35:51
That does not mean that there are no limits on screen time or that if they identify as
35:55
a furry, you go buy them a tail.
35:57
That is not what we're saying.
35:58
We are saying that children have concrete natural rights around which adults must conform.
36:03
Because the only alternative is for children to sacrifice their rights to conform to adult
36:08
desires.
36:09
And that is an injustice.
36:10
That is why it's important to very clearly identify what is and is not a natural right
36:15
for kids.
36:16
Because otherwise we get to the place where they are like little emperors, you know,
36:19
where everything that they say we do to the detriment sometimes of our own relationship
36:24
with our spouse.
36:25
And I agree with you, you know, that what children need most and actually we open chapter two
36:31
with this story well with this anecdote by a family therapist who had been in practice
36:38
for nearly 50 years and a marriage researcher.
36:41
And he said something to me that I've never forgotten.
36:43
He said a funny thing happens when they see their father loving their mother.
36:48
They feel like their father is loving them.
36:50
And when they see their mother loving their father, they feel like their mother is loving
36:54
them.
36:55
And he said, in my experience, in my 50 years of family therapy, it is the only instance
37:01
in the pantheon of human experiences where you can be loved indirectly, mom or dad isn't
37:06
even looking at you.
37:07
They're not touching you.
37:08
They're not talking to you.
37:09
And yet you are being loved by them because husband and wife are loving each other.
37:14
And so you're right that there is, if we are honoring children's rights, we actually will
37:19
prioritize our relationship with our spouse, not just not just hanging on by the skin of
37:26
our teeth to our marriage, which sometimes you have to do for a year or two, but having
37:30
a flourishing, loving, joyous, friendship-filled marriage, like that needs the needs of your
37:37
kids as well.
37:38
I saw this one.
37:39
I wish I would have known the name of the show so I could give these guys a shot out.
37:43
But it was a couple of Kiwis, a couple of guys from New Zealand that were talking.
37:46
And this guy goes, "Hey, you know the best lesson my dad ever taught me?
37:51
He just loved my mom.
37:52
Gosh, he just loved my mom and he prioritized her and he cared for her and he did all the
37:56
things."
37:57
Because everyone's expecting with that setup, Katie.
37:59
Well, he told me that no matter what, you just got to get through it and no matter what,
38:03
you have to protect those.
38:04
I can't protect themselves.
38:05
Or something that a dad is actually physically saying to his boy, "No," he said, "My dad modeled
38:11
humility as he cared for my mom, which is going to help him."
38:16
I think this guy is probably married and how he loves his spouse.
38:20
And if you want to take care of generational brokenness and all of that, it starts with
38:24
you, brother, right?
38:25
You can lament the fact that grandma or grandpa did this and great grandpa was a terrible guy
38:29
and all the things.
38:30
Or you can stop it right now, which really does dovetail into something that y'all cover
38:33
at the beginning of this book, which is fatherless homes and the negative impact that that has
38:38
on society.
38:39
Because I'm not the first person to say it, I certainly won't be the last.
38:42
I think just about every societal ill can go back to men that have abdicated their responsibility,
38:48
men that were okay with siring children, but not fathering them.
38:51
I want to read a quote from the book here.
38:53
It appears when it comes to social crises, money isn't the problem and massive government
38:57
spending isn't the solution.
38:59
So what could be the explanation for failing students, swelling prison populations, and
39:03
generational poverty?
39:04
Could the eight fold increase in fatherless children over the past 60 years be at the
39:10
root of the problem?
39:12
And Katie, the answer is clearly yes, because in every racial cohort except for Asian Americans,
39:18
it has been an explosion.
39:19
So 60 years ago, about 25% of black children were born to out of wedlock mothers.
39:24
Now it's closer to 80%.
39:26
For whites, it was 3%.
39:28
Now it's over 30%.
39:29
For Latinos, right now it's close to 50%.
39:33
This isn't a literal epidemic.
39:36
This is not like, oh, I'm going to use epidemic language because I needed it to be hyperbolic.
39:40
So it seems worse than it is.
39:41
It's way worse than we could even describe.
39:43
So go and talk a little bit about that for us.
39:45
Or this is exactly right, and in the book we also go through things like the absolute
39:50
correlation between high school dropouts and fatherless homes.
39:54
I mean, you can see that the achievement gap in school is actually not racial.
39:59
It is family structure related because black children who are raised by their married mother
40:04
and father through high school graduation, especially if the parents attend church weekly
40:09
have no difference in terms of their achievement and their graduation rates.
40:14
So this absolutely is not a racist school system.
40:17
It's not a racist criminal justice system.
40:20
It's not a racist welfare system.
40:22
It turns out that those representations of having disproportionate representation of
40:28
blacks in prison or blacks dropping out of school or blacks in gang affiliations, it
40:34
has nothing to do with blackness, it has everything to do with father loss.
40:39
And unfortunately, our attempt to help the poor struggling, especially minority women
40:44
in the 1960s with the advent of the massive social welfare state actually reinforced and
40:50
incentivized the very family loss and family breakdown that was leading to the poverty
40:55
to begin with.
40:56
That's right.
40:57
And like you said, you know, like there's, there's not just mountains of data on this.
41:00
There's mountain ranges of data on this that father absence is at the root of every major
41:08
social ill that we are facing today.
41:10
You cannot look at, you give me an issue, homelessness, drug abuse, obesity, failing
41:17
students, poverty, teen pregnancy, like there is no issue where you cannot drill down and
41:24
say, fatherless children are overrepresented in the groups of kids that are struggling
41:28
with these issues.
41:29
Suicide, don't even, I tell people, I'm like, don't give me this.
41:33
I want social justice until you first insist on justice for individual children in the
41:39
home.
41:40
Because otherwise it is abandoned over a gaping wound and nobody is helped by that, especially
41:45
not the child.
41:46
Well, and look, I've seen the data that points to the dad in the home could be terrible.
41:53
He could be overweight.
41:54
He could be slovenly.
41:55
He could be lazy.
41:56
He could be abusive, but the outcomes for the children just by having dad present, not
42:02
even a good dad, right?
42:03
I'm not advocating being a jerk dad, but just having dad there is better than having dad
42:11
not there.
42:12
And a lot of it gets in, we're going to be, we're going to kind of go through the narrative
42:15
of the book.
42:16
So you might be tempted to jump around, but chapter two is called biology matters.
42:19
And so short quote, the only thing kids need to grow up healthy and happy are to be safe
42:24
and loved.
42:25
Essentially, any two will do is what we've been sold because I remember even in my Sunday
42:29
school, five, six years ago, somebody was like, look, can you actually say it's better
42:35
for a kid to be an orphan than for them to be in a house with two loving gay dads.
42:39
And a lot of people are really having trouble again.
42:42
These are very well-meaning people.
42:43
They're, you know, they're soft-hearted, but also soft-headed.
42:47
And they just take these arguments and say, yeah, that seems to make a lot of sense.
42:51
But just why is that any two will do mindset wrong and why specifically, precisely, does
42:56
biology matter?
42:57
Well, there's, there's, I'm going to give you the overview of chapter two and chapter
43:01
three.
43:02
We're going to hit these at the same time.
43:03
Why does biology matter?
43:04
Biology matters for three reasons.
43:06
Number one is the one that you just touched on because we actually want children to be
43:10
safe and loved.
43:12
And all of us know horrible exceptions to this.
43:14
We know the fathers that abandoned or abused or neglected and those men deserve condemnation.
43:22
But I will tell you, there was no other family structure where you're going to get more
43:25
highly connected men than a child's own biological father.
43:30
And I very often will tell people, and we can do this right now, that while you're listening
43:35
to Kyle and I talk, I want you to Google the words "mother's boyfriend" for me, okay?
43:39
Google the words "mother's boyfriend."
43:41
Because if it's true that biology doesn't matter and kids just need to be safe and loved.
43:44
And if the adults are happy, the kids will be happy and any two will do and all of that,
43:48
then children living with their mother and her co-habiting boyfriend will be doing awesome
43:53
because they've got two parents, the adults are happy, they have a mother and a father
43:57
figure, they maybe have more resources as a result.
44:02
But what you just saw when you googled mother's boyfriend is the most horrific disturbing
44:07
cases of child abuse and neglect and filicide that you're going to see anywhere on the internet.
44:13
What we see is the predictor of childhood abuse is very often the presence of an unrelated
44:20
man in the home, and sociologist Brad Wilcox will say that the most dangerous place a
44:25
child in America can find themselves today is in the home of an unrelated man, specifically
44:30
mother's boyfriend, left to care for the child themselves.
44:33
So why does biology matter?
44:35
It matters because if you actually believe that children deserve to be safe and loved,
44:40
biology has seemed to build into us a system for that kind of protectiveness that we have
44:46
not yet been able to replicate in any other arrangement, not even through adoptive parents
44:51
who are going through intense screening and vetting and background checks and literally
44:55
getting fingerprinted by the FBI.
44:57
So far, we have not found a system of child safety that replicates the benefit of being
45:01
raised by two biological married parents.
45:06
So that's number one why biology matters.
45:08
Why else does biology matters?
45:11
Number two is because there is something that only those two adults grant children that
45:15
they crave, and that is their biological identity.
45:19
It is very hard for children to answer the question, who am I?
45:23
If they can't answer the question, who's am I?
45:26
Correct.
45:27
And maybe this doesn't make a lot of sense to you if you grew up with your mom and dad
45:30
or even if you grew up just knowing your mom and dad, but they were divorced, but if you
45:33
grew up never knowing your father, there's a really good chance that through your adolescence
45:38
and maybe even today you're going, I don't even know who I am, I don't know who I'm trying
45:42
to piece together.
45:43
I'm trying to piece together an identity for myself as a lifter or as a husband or proud
45:48
of my Mexican American heritage, but it's probably there's probably something missing
45:52
in you because you do not know where you get half of your features.
45:56
You do not know why it is that you love music and nobody else in your family seems to care.
46:01
It is because there is something that only those two adults who give us life can inform
46:05
to us about the answer, who am I?
46:08
So that is critical and we've tried to minimize it a lot in this country, probably out of
46:13
a protectiveness for our friends who have adopted, but even adoption has radically shifted
46:18
to recognize the importance of a biological connection, you know, in the 60s, when you
46:22
just brought up all of the out of wedlock, drop, you know, the low rates before we had
46:26
this high spike back then, almost all adoptions were closed adoptions.
46:31
Kids didn't have any information about their first family didn't have contact with their
46:35
birth mom today. Do you want to guess? Well, you probably know, because you read the book,
46:40
how many adoptions are open adoptions today?
46:43
I forget the stab, but it's a it's a shocking number. Like it's it's it's and for the reasons
46:49
you're elucidating.
46:50
Yeah, it's 95% Yeah, yeah, yeah, virtually no closed adoptions because social workers
46:55
have recognized that even if children cannot be raised by their biological parents, they
46:59
benefit from as many connections with their first family as possible.
47:02
Right, even if it's a aunt's uncle's cousins, like grandma grandpa just having some sort
47:08
of familial grounding.
47:09
Yep, as much as possible. So number one, safe and loved, number two, biological identity
47:15
and number three, if if the child is raised by both biological parents, they will automatically
47:22
get the perfect gender balance in the home. They will always in 100% of cases have a male
47:27
parent and a female parent. And as you know, and your listeners probably have observed,
47:33
men and women are different shock of all shocks breaking news. And those differences really
47:39
benefit kids and we can get into that if you want. But the truth is that like with a male
47:43
and a female parent, you get this this perfectly well rounded development to find motor skills,
47:48
gross motor skills in terms of empathy, but also adventure in terms of like cognitive
47:54
development in terms of language use by the dad versus like immediate connection with
47:58
language use for the mom. I mean, like, you could not think of a better system to set
48:02
kids up to grow and thrive in the world than having a male parent and a female parent.
48:06
So that's it. Like if biology matters, which it does, there is nothing that can replace
48:11
it. And that is a that's a wrecking ball for all of these notions that we have that, oh,
48:17
I can just like be my true self and like come out, you know, as a gay man and start this
48:23
new family, or no, it doesn't really matter if my husband, my boyfriend and I get married.
48:28
Like we can co parent. Oh, you know, it's fine if I want to create a child using a sperm
48:34
donor because we're dealing with infertility. I'm sorry, biology matters. It might matter
48:39
the most other than protecting children's right to life. And if biology matters, that
48:44
means very few adults are going to get what they want, but every child is going to get
48:47
what they need.
48:48
And we're going to get way deeper into some of those things. But one of the things that
48:51
you brought up Katie is the who's am I portion of that? Obviously. So so I spoke at Lewisburg
48:57
prison a few years ago, one of the absolute pleasures of my life to be able to go there.
49:01
That that group of men had been basically forgotten, no one had come to speak to them
49:04
or visit them in a really, really long time. And so there were two main things that I did.
49:08
The very first thing that I did, you know, when the guys were walking in because they
49:11
were not compelled to come, they could come on their own volition. I majored to introduce
49:15
myself to them and talk to them. And you know, I know what I'm doing. I'm shaking hands with
49:18
murderers and rapists and pedophiles and all kinds of things. But the first words out
49:23
of my mouth were you guys have violated the laws of man. And that's why you're here and
49:28
you're going to have to stay here and I get to leave and go home. But all of us in this
49:32
room have violated the laws of God. So in that way, we are brothers. So can we dispense
49:37
with this idea that somehow I'm different than you? So I started there, but then also
49:41
I wanted to make this connection because I'm preaching the gospel hard to these guys.
49:44
Like for a lot of you guys, you didn't know your dad or your dad was a horrible, terrible
49:50
abusive man. And it's affected you deeply. And a lot of you, that's part of the reason
49:53
why you are here that in your own decision making. Don't let that cloud your view of
49:58
a perfect heavenly father. And so because a lot of guys think like, wait, my dad was
50:03
this horrible, terrible person. Now you're telling me to follow this like cosmic version
50:07
of dad who's like bigger and stronger and all powerful and all knowing like, shoot, that
50:10
sounds terrible. So I'm trying to delineate between those things for these guys.
50:15
But as you as you move into chapter three of the book and we get into gender mattering
50:18
because yes, you talk about, of course, there are anecdotes where the the birth mom and
50:23
dad are awful, but the adoptive parents are great and all that. But those are statistical
50:27
outliers when we're looking at the totality of these situations. But you talk about how
50:32
we've equated, well, we've conflated equality with sameness. Okay. So men and women can
50:40
be equal and have equal rights. Yes, pro, you know, two thumbs up, let's sign that check,
50:44
check. But they're not the same, right? And that really does muddy the waters of this
50:49
debate because you talk about in the book, dads reflect the world, moms reflect the home.
50:54
That doesn't mean dad only goes out to the world and dad or mom only stays at home, but
50:59
dads reflect the world around them and moms reflect what the tension level should be inside
51:05
the home. And it should be a low, low conflict environment. And there are distinct and beautiful
51:10
differences between a loving father and a loving mother. And so talk a little bit more
51:14
about that, how we've kind of just equated, okay, yeah, quality, but no, no, no, they're
51:19
just the same. Again, it kind of gets back to the any two will do argument.
51:22
Yeah, exactly. And unfortunately, this is where the feminist movement went far off the
51:27
rails, right? Because we the first way feminists believe that men and women are equal. So we're
51:32
need equal rights, you know, for voting and wouldn't it be great if women could have their
51:34
own like bathrooms and things like that. So like a testament to how far the feminists
51:38
have fallen in terms of now welcoming men into their private spaces. But the second wave
51:44
of feminism really started to believe that if you are if women are not exactly like men,
51:48
in terms of their career aspirations or their ability to walk away from sex without consequences,
51:54
or you know, the high body count of the worst behaved men that they have the, you know,
51:58
the inkling, the more stronger inclination for that means that we're not really equal.
52:02
And that is a big problem because men and women are different biologically in terms of
52:07
their brains in terms of their emotional like orientations, even just like ocular different,
52:12
even just in terms of auditory differences, like there's really more differences between
52:15
men and women. All of them are down to the benefit of children. And so like that was
52:20
Stacy's brilliant framing and like women reflect the home. We tend to do activities with kids
52:25
that have to do like more with like caretaking, we tend to care for kids that reflect the world.
52:30
They tend to play with kids, right? Women tend to emphasize like equity and safety and emotional
52:36
security. Dads push kids to take big risks. They actually like push them to look at the
52:41
world and conquer the world, even if the child is worried about it or scared. I mean, like
52:46
the world is like wide open spaces. It's a lot more unpredictable. The home is very
52:50
predictable. So you see moms who are tend to be the ones who are packing the lunch, making
52:54
sure the kids are eating their vegetables, brushing their teeth, going to the bed on
52:57
time. When I go out of town and my husband is at home, it's like T minus, you know, five,
53:02
four, three and I get pictures of them like staying up late, binging on Star Wars and
53:08
you know, you know, Twizzlers or whatever. And it's like, that's great. Like there is
53:12
that world of adventure where like is the boundaries are kind of like in a different
53:16
place. And then you know, mom comes home and they're like, God, please make us some broccoli.
53:21
And it's great to have both. You know, it's great to have like that parent who's pushing
53:24
them and doing like adventurous, fun things and then the predictable parent too. So unfortunately,
53:29
we have told especially women that they're not really equal and unless they act like
53:33
one men, they want the same day. This is a really, really big problem right now in terms
53:38
of women delaying childbearing because they think that the way that they need to conduct
53:43
their life is along the same route that men when it comes to structuring their career,
53:48
which is graduate, go to college, get a job, pay off debt, make partner at the law firm
53:54
and then maybe later, you can stay home and have kids. But by that time, the woman might
53:58
be 37 or 42. And her body is no longer going to cooperate with her. And a lot of times,
54:03
you find out when you're in your mid 40s that you have missed your opportunity to be a mother.
54:08
Men have a much longer window when it comes to being a father, a little more flexibility
54:13
in terms of their biological clock, a lot more flexibility. And so we have done women
54:18
such a disservice by telling them that they're not really equal unless they're like men,
54:22
but ultimately at them before us, we would say the biggest victims are the children who
54:27
are now facing a cultural, legal and technological landscape that have made mothers and fathers
54:32
optional in the name of equality. Right. And think about it. So I think Jordan
54:37
said this quite a bit. He's like men are not attracted to women that are like corner office,
54:43
you know, sport car, driving, you know, Louie, handbag, carrying women. It's not to say
54:49
that those women are unattractive. It's to say that men will marry down. I'm using these
54:55
all as kind of generalizations men will marry down women will not marry up. And so when you
55:00
have a feminist culture, more women getting college degrees, you know, more boardrooms
55:05
are forcing women into there so that they can keep their DEI scores up and different
55:09
things like that. Not saying that these women are not impressive. That's not what I'm saying.
55:12
But there these women are like, well, I'm not finding any man that's up to my standards.
55:16
And you see these men on the street interviews where they go up to these young women and they're
55:20
you know, teenage years and twenties, you know, what are you looking for in a man? And they're
55:23
always like, at least six for body fat's got to be under 10%. He's got to make it least
55:27
250 k a year. I'm not even going to consider dating him and all that's like, okay, well,
55:31
when you dispense with that point, zero, zero, one percent of the population, who exactly
55:35
are you going to date? Madam. And it's just like they've been we've been just in this
55:40
milieu of first, second, third, and now fourth wave feminism, you know, first, first wave
55:45
feminism is let's have a quality. Yeah, great. I'm okay with that. Second wave is like, hey,
55:49
sexual liberation, like you do you boo. Third generation is like, you know, we actually
55:53
technically don't need third, third wave is like, we technically don't need men. We're
55:57
essentially the same. And now fourth wave, it's men can become women. It's like, all
56:01
right, this is the dumbest thing we live in the dumbest time in human history. But then
56:05
you get into these ideas, because everyone loves to talk about toxic masculinity and
56:09
not toxic femininity, right? You want to talk about misogyny? But what about misandry?
56:13
What about hatred of men simply for the fact that they are men, right? Because of the presence
56:18
of white chromosomes and, you know, male genitalia. But a quote from the book is the evidence tells
56:22
us toxic masculinity is not a result of dad's influence. It's a result of dad's absence,
56:28
which is exactly true. Because me preparing myself to defend image bears of Christ around
56:34
me or image bears of God that are around me be preparing to provide for my progeny in a
56:39
way that allows them to extend their hands into their cultures and into their, you know,
56:44
bees and to protect women and children. People are like, Oh, well, that's toxic. I held the
56:48
door open for a woman one time. And she looked at me and just rolled her eyes like, like,
56:52
I couldn't have done that myself. It's like, that's not the point. That's not the point
56:55
is I was taught to be chivalrous. And this is a minute example of chivalry. So talk a
57:00
little bit more about this obsession with this, this toxic masculinity, whatever that
57:05
is, even though they can't define it.
57:07
Well, I will boil it down. And it is that boys and men are more aggressive and competitive
57:14
than girls are. This is not a surprise to you or any of your listeners. Okay, like,
57:18
this is why there's a lot more guys at jujitsu than there are women at jujitsu. Okay, because
57:23
men want that. And I'm not, I know, I know a killer jujitsu woman. I mean, like she is
57:27
just an absolute beast, but men tend to gravitate towards these kinds of activities where there's
57:31
more competitiveness and aggressiveness. And it's very, very important. You know, what
57:36
happens at jujitsu? You have rules. You have, do you have senses? Is that what you call
57:40
them? I mean, they're, they're professors in there. Yeah, like, and there's, there's
57:44
written rules and there's unwritten rules like, Hey, if it's a trial class guy, don't
57:48
try to throw them into the next county, or else it's going to be your head next whenever
57:51
you roll with the professor.
57:53
So you have these rules that say that govern how you use force. Okay. And that's what you're
57:59
doing, right? Yes, you can do this move. No, you can't do this move. When they tap out,
58:02
you stop, you know, when they do this, you can just keep going. So actually boys really
58:06
need that as they grow. And you can look at this and this does come down to raw physicality
58:13
in some ways that we see that boys that do not. So okay, gentlemen, let me ask you a
58:19
question. Think about when you saw a baby being thrown up in the air. Okay. Everybody
58:25
can think of that. Now think of this morning. I did it this morning to say how high I could
58:30
get them. Yeah.
58:31
Did your wife do it? Of course not. Of course not. You could go to any country in the country
58:36
in the world. And what you will see is men throwing babies. And you can go to any country
58:40
in the world and you see women swaddling and racking, they're being strapping them to their
58:44
bodies to be worn around for six hours a day. So like men naturally are more physical with
58:49
their kids. They do this through tossing them in there when they're little, a lot of wrestling,
58:53
a lot of running, jumping, climbing, swinging hammers. Like that is what I'm saying. Like
58:57
men will develop children's gross motor skills in a way that women simply will not through
59:02
the different ways that they interact with them. But especially the rough and tumble play
59:06
is critical. It's essential boys. It's essential in learning how to control too much force.
59:13
Oh, I can go harder here. Right. Headlock. Yes, but this, but not around, you know, the
59:18
place where it's going to like cut off the air circulation. Okay, I can really like grip
59:22
them, but I can't bite them. And so like there is something about that that channels boys
59:28
natural competitiveness and aggressiveness towards a world that will build civilization
59:33
rather than destroy civilization. And so that is what we're talking about. You want toxic
59:38
masculinity. You know, you want people that are all about dominating and conquering regardless
59:43
of the cost to others. That is a father absent child right there. That's what you're seeing.
59:48
One is a problem of definitions. My definition of a toxic man is one that does not cultivate
59:52
spiritual mental and physical resilience on a daily basis one that does not provide spiritually
59:57
and financially and from a protective mechanism for their families and that that doesn't leave
1:00:01
an inheritance. Right. So basically everything you're supposed to do biblically, the opposite
1:00:04
of that, that's what a toxically masculine man is. But according to culture, according
1:00:07
to this left wing feminist culture, I got news for him. James and Elijah are going to
1:00:11
be two of the most toxically masculine boys you will ever see in your entire life. Because
1:00:15
you know what their favorite game to play with dad is not baseball, it's not race cars.
1:00:20
It's fight club. That's basically their favorite thing to do. They call it bad guys, right?
1:00:25
Because what I used to do is I would get on the couch and I would make this mean face
1:00:28
and they're like, dad, you're a bad guy. And I'm like, yeah, what do we do to bad guys?
1:00:32
And then they would just run as fast as they could and they know the rules. You can hit
1:00:37
dad, just not in his face, not as a genitalia, but otherwise you can kick and hit dad as
1:00:42
hard as you want. But guess what? I'm gonna give it back to you. I'm gonna give it back
1:00:44
to you a little bit. And again, they're four and three, right about to be five and three.
1:00:48
So I'm not blasting them with Muay Thai kicks, but I'm letting them feel it right. And but
1:00:52
it's a fun thing. And I mean, they will just go for over an hour and they're just jumping
1:00:58
off things, landing on me. But that's what they need because every now and they're so
1:01:03
satisfied. They're so confident and they're so at peace and they're so connected. And
1:01:08
do you let them run out and jujitsu kick your wife? Never even close. And if they even
1:01:13
lift a hand, I'm gonna tell you this, I don't know that I've ever said this on my show.
1:01:17
It's one of the biggest regrets that I've had in my life recently. And it was such a
1:01:21
small thing, but I'm at my chiropractor's office. And this is one of those kind of pinnacle
1:01:24
doctors. So they just get you in and out. So you're not in the place very long. And there's
1:01:29
like probably a seven or eight year old little boy, his mom tells him to do something right
1:01:34
in the soft parenting approach. And he kind of raises his hand to her like he was going
1:01:38
to hit her. And I saw this and I was a gas. I wanted to snatch this kid up and just put
1:01:45
him up against the wall. But I didn't say anything. And I wish I could go back and not
1:01:51
snatch him up and put him against the wall. But to get in, like get down on his level and
1:01:55
get in his face and be like, excuse me, young man, you do not ever raise your hand to a woman
1:02:00
like that with a threat of violence. Do you understand me? Regardless of what mom does
1:02:04
because mom would have probably tried to come in and protect her boy and like, oh, you
1:02:07
know, he didn't mean it. He didn't mean it. It's like, no, brother, we mean it. Like,
1:02:10
I remember me in this group of guys, there was this kid. He was kind of the knucklehead
1:02:13
of the group. He's in his early twenties or whatever. And he or no, this is when he was
1:02:17
a teenager who's still in high school, he would always call his mom by her first name.
1:02:21
But we didn't know that. But we're all in the kitchen hanging out in his mom walks in
1:02:25
and he calls her by her first name and all of us. We like surround this kid. And I was
1:02:30
like the small guy in the group. We had these three brothers that were enormous. And we
1:02:34
basically surround this kid and were like, dude, if you ever do that to us or do that
1:02:39
to her in our presence again, we're going to smash you in front of your mom. Do you understand
1:02:44
me? She is mom or ma'am. Those are her two name options. You got me?
1:02:48
Let me ask you this. Why is it that so many of the kids in that prison were fatherless?
1:02:53
Those those men as children, why were they fatherless? Not by any decision that they
1:02:59
made, but the dads were it's because when a kid raises their fist to their mom, right?
1:03:06
When they're seven or when they speak disrespectfully to mom when they're 13, mom does not necessarily
1:03:12
have the the wiring, the will or the strength to challenge the kid, correct? Very often,
1:03:21
the first time that one of those kids will have a check on their aggression is the cops.
1:03:27
That will be the child's first taste of real consequences from misusing their physicality.
1:03:34
And that is why you see a direct correlation, unfortunately, with fatherlessness and high
1:03:39
levels of criminality, because they didn't have a dad saying, don't you talk to your
1:03:42
wife? Don't you talk to my wife that way? No, you are not allowed to bite your brother
1:03:46
or sister just because you're angry. That doesn't mean you can you can shatter the window. Like
1:03:51
here's the way that you need to deal with your anger. You can punch your pillow or you
1:03:54
can go for a run or you can just tell me about it or whatever. So it's like, I'm sorry, but
1:03:59
like there's just there's no hope for us. No hope for us in terms of mitigating and channeling
1:04:06
men's aggressive tendencies, which is which is civilizational building necessity. Men are
1:04:13
going to build civilization in ways that women will never, well, they're going to protect
1:04:18
society in ways that women will never, but you won't get it without dads.
1:04:23
That's right. And just as a quick aside, and I know you'll cosign this and then we need
1:04:27
to move on. I know individually some single moms are listening to this show specifically
1:04:31
one of the most it gets me like, you know, upset every time I think about upset in a
1:04:36
good way. But I was told that there was a single mom who apparently had a horrible husband
1:04:42
and you know, a neglected young boy and apparently this guy's not in the in the picture anymore.
1:04:47
And it's kind of a thank God situation. This guy's not in the picture anymore because of
1:04:50
how terrible he was. But I was informed that this single mom, she will listen to my show
1:04:58
on Sundays when it's me and three other guys doing Bible study. And when pastor Joby Martin
1:05:02
of Church 1122 in Florida, we do a segment every month called ask a pastor. And it's him
1:05:07
and I just kind of going back and forth, but I'm bringing in questions that I've heard
1:05:09
from from other people or from our donors or from my circle of guys here. And she's like,
1:05:15
because this is the only positive male feedback that he gets is when we listen to y'all in
1:05:19
the car. And so whenever the next time I went and traveled to the church and Jacksonville's
1:05:23
like, make sure that I meet this mom and this little boy, just so I can encourage mom for
1:05:28
five seconds and get down on the boys level and just talk to him and show him, Hey, I'm
1:05:31
the guy from the show and there are guys like like, like us out there. And for you single
1:05:35
moms, just know that you feel like you have to play both roles right now, but you really
1:05:40
don't have to. Okay. And I know circumstances may have befallen you or perhaps your own bad
1:05:46
decisions have led to your current level of circumstances. However, your kids need a
1:05:51
mom. They don't need half of a mom and a pseudo half dad that you're not even wired
1:05:56
to be. So that would just be my encouragement to you. Gals, you have anything on that before
1:05:59
we move on, you want to put a stamp on it? So many things, but you're exactly right.
1:06:03
There are single moms who are single moms, because they were the only parent willing
1:06:06
to act like an adult. Okay. And obviously the dad in this situation put us before them.
1:06:12
He's like me first, not my wife, not my kid. Okay, I wish that we had the kinds of cultural
1:06:17
and legal punishments for that kind of like covenant breaking behavior, but we don't thanks,
1:06:23
you know, to no fault divorce largely. And then all of this sort of like, if the adults
1:06:27
are happy, kids will be happy kind of hogwash. But what I will say is, you know, we talk
1:06:32
about this in our second book to raising conservative kids in a woke city, that you become
1:06:36
what you behold. Okay, so let's be really honest, that kids that grow up with a single
1:06:42
mother are more likely to become single parents themselves, because you will become what you
1:06:47
behold. So what is the job of parents who are in a situation that is not ideal and who
1:06:52
recognize it? They must give their children something else to behold. They need to say,
1:06:58
you can't look at your father's decision as something to pattern your life after, but
1:07:02
you can look at grandma and grandpa who have been so faithful to one another. Or I'm going
1:07:06
to get you hooked on watching Charlie Kirk. Okay, because he's got some pretty good political
1:07:11
answers. He got some pretty good moral advice as well. And you can watch him like evolving
1:07:15
as a husband and father too. So like, ideally, children will be able to become what they
1:07:21
behold in their own home, a healthy mother who loves her femininity and is super dialed
1:07:26
in and supportive of her husband, a father who is like the primary disciple in his house
1:07:33
and who uses his physical strength, his emotional strength, and his spiritual strength, not
1:07:37
just for the benefit of his family, but for the benefit of the world. Okay, that's ideally
1:07:41
what's going to happen. That is how to set your children up for flourishing. But if
1:07:44
you don't want your children to become what they've beheld in their own home, you have
1:07:49
got to redirect their gaze towards people that they can behold, that they can become. And
1:07:55
you know, my husband and I both came from broken homes. And the family that took him
1:08:00
in that he decided to become like they did this, right? They became he's he literally
1:08:07
said as a seven year old when he went to his best friend's house and he looked around,
1:08:10
he's like, this is nuts. This family, they all live together in the same house. The kids
1:08:17
stay here every day. The kids don't go somewhere else on the weekend. And he goes, not only
1:08:22
that, but the parents don't fight and scream. In fact, I saw them kissing each other in
1:08:27
the kitchen when nobody was looking. And he as a seven year old, he said, when I grow
1:08:33
up, my house will not be like my house. My house is going to be like Chad's house. And
1:08:39
Chad's parents allowed him gave him something to behold. And that is who he has become. And
1:08:45
Chad's father said on our wedding day, the best gift that you will give your children
1:08:50
is to love their mother, the exact same thing that you said. So to the single moms or the
1:08:55
single dads out there who are in a terrible spot, like you said, maybe their own decisions,
1:09:00
maybe out of no fault of their own, you've got to direct your children's vision to the
1:09:04
kind of people you want them to become.
1:09:08
It's so funny to use the example that you use because I literally wrote this down. I remember
1:09:13
being gosh, I couldn't have been older than 10 years old. And I went over to a buddy's
1:09:18
house and, you know, my parents were divorced and this was when they were still together.
1:09:23
But probably, I guess should have been divorced. Don't I mean, we're going to get to that in
1:09:26
just a second. But I remember seeing I were sitting at the dinner table, eating dinner
1:09:31
or whatever and the moms, you know, getting everything ready. And dad walks in from work.
1:09:35
And the first thing he does is he walks up and hugs and kisses his wife. I was like,
1:09:39
I like looked at my buddy thinking like, Oh, we're about to have a moment because that
1:09:43
was weird. That's gross. That was weird. And he just kept eating. And I was like, wait,
1:09:49
wait, wait, that's like, that's like a thing. That's like a normal thing. Because that wasn't
1:09:53
modeled for me. And look, I love my dad and I love my mom and I got most of my moral foundation
1:09:58
from them, even if it was on accident. But it's like, gosh, that's just a different thing.
1:10:02
And this really dovetails into chapter four, the book, which is called marriage matters.
1:10:06
But then you kind of have the photo negative of that in chapter five, which is where you
1:10:09
talk about divorce, because statistically speaking, and I don't care if you look at this
1:10:14
anthropologically, sociologically, biblically, whatever, the home setup that is that leads
1:10:20
to the most positive outcomes for children is biological father, married to biological
1:10:25
mother in a low conflict setting where everybody goes to church.
1:10:29
That's exactly right. Doesn't matter what theology you have. Doesn't matter if you're
1:10:32
a five point Calvinist, or you're one of those, you know, people that are waving wands and
1:10:37
all kinds of crap during the worship service, like it doesn't matter if you have all those
1:10:41
boxes checked. But I do want to want to read this, this quick quote about divorce here from
1:10:45
the book divorces another term for the death of a family. The end of a marriage is often
1:10:51
the death of a child's feelings of safety and security. It's the end of one home. The
1:10:56
end of love shared by two people a child loves most in the end of time spent with both parents
1:11:01
daily. Divorce introduces instability, confusion, questions of loyalty into the already complex
1:11:08
nature of childhood. So hard for me to even read that out loud considering, you know,
1:11:13
my own family's divorce and or my parents divorce and what that looks like. But I forget who
1:11:19
said it, but they're like in modernity, women will give up their marriage for their happiness
1:11:25
and men will give up their happiness for their marriage. And so being in the men's space,
1:11:30
I've been just flooded with some of the worst, most heartbreaking stories of men who did the
1:11:36
right thing. They worked their butts off. They, they took care of mom and the kids. They
1:11:39
did everything. But mom just bought into the well, he's just not enough for me. He's not
1:11:44
doing things my way. And I'm better. And I look at the mirror every morning because Joel
1:11:49
has seen told me to say these affirmations in the mirror. And by golly, that's what I'm
1:11:52
going to do. I am enough. I am always in it. And then they blow up their entire lives because
1:11:58
they bought the satanic feminist lie of that they needed more that this isn't enough and
1:12:04
certainly he isn't enough. But my goodness, even to men out there that are considering
1:12:10
divorce because they're not quote unquote happy, it's like brother who gave you the idea
1:12:14
that that is your utmost responsibility on this planet to be happy because your supposed
1:12:19
heroes from the Bible, do you think they were happy? You think Paul was happy when he was
1:12:22
getting snakebit, stone shipwrecked, like betrayed by his friends? I'm sure there wasn't
1:12:27
a whole lot of happy. But it was about his duty to God, not his current level of happiness
1:12:33
in his circumstances. So let's let's pull off the band aid. Let's talk about divorce.
1:12:37
Well, I would say that the culprit here is not primarily Joel Olstein. It is that there
1:12:42
is an entire like stream of influencers on Instagram that are empowering and encouraging
1:12:47
women to leave husbands that are not abusive and not neglectful and not addicted to porn
1:12:52
because they need to live their best lives and be their true self and mother's happiness
1:12:55
is the most important component when it comes to child wellbeing and like all of this garbage
1:12:59
and lies. And it feeds into a few major problems that women have. Number one, we are more susceptible
1:13:06
to social contagion. We are more responsive to what's happening in the environment around
1:13:10
we pattern ourselves, we mimic, we mean, we like, we're mimetic more in that sense in
1:13:16
terms of like responding to what's happening in the world around us. This is why you see
1:13:20
young girls much more likely to now adopt a transgender identity because they're more
1:13:25
susceptible to the social contagion. If a friend or two decides to transition, they will
1:13:30
suddenly be like, well, I should do that too. Sometimes it's a misplaced empathy, but a
1:13:34
lot of it is just that we are more susceptible to what's happening in the cultural around
1:13:38
us. And now what you have, this happens in the real life world too. So if you have a
1:13:42
friend, if you're a married couple, you have one close friend who divorces, your likelihood
1:13:47
of divorce goes up by 75%. Yeah, it's like a disease susceptible to what is happening
1:13:53
in our world. And now you have these Instagram trends where you can get endless streams
1:13:59
of beautiful 30 something women who are like, I just love my husband, it was the best thing.
1:14:05
And then oh, here's a kiss from my new guy who's like so hot and fit and whatever. And
1:14:08
you know what's kind of nice because like obviously I still want time with my kids,
1:14:12
but I also get like three days of me time now. But of course, they are generally milking
1:14:17
their husbands there for money. And so he just gets the raw end of the deal. And I will
1:14:23
say, I am very familiar with the statistics, it is 69% of divorces are initiated by women.
1:14:30
So I know the differences that have been initiated by men. And those are like, they were awful
1:14:38
and she was doing everything that she could. But generally, women tend to have higher demands
1:14:43
in the relationship. I was just talking to a group of people last night. And I was two
1:14:47
nights ago. And I said, men have lower expectations for marriage than women do. They want food
1:14:53
and they want sex. And they want her to be nice to him. That is what men want. Okay,
1:14:58
women want the exact kind of romance that they want and the way they want it on the
1:15:02
day that they want it, they want to go to the restaurant that they want to go to. They don't
1:15:05
just want him to be nice. They want him to be protective. And they want him to take care
1:15:09
of all of the like security for the house and do the yard work and all of this. And so
1:15:13
we just see that women do have higher demands for their emotional connection, especially
1:15:18
in the relationship than men do. And this is actually why we need to abolish no fault
1:15:24
divorce, because it means that you can get out of the relationship, even if the other
1:15:28
person is not at fault. And there are plenty of misbehaving men out there who are addictive,
1:15:34
abusive, abandoned. And they need consequences. But when it comes to the no fault situations,
1:15:40
women are more likely to initiate those. And then men, like you said, who have really done
1:15:44
everything that they can. And by the way, over the last 20 years, men, because you know,
1:15:50
all of these Instagram reels are like, he doesn't do enough housework. Like I'm still
1:15:53
like working full time. And I'm also taking care of the kids. You know, men, even though
1:15:57
they tend to work more hours, they tend to do more over time, they tend to do more dangerous
1:16:02
jobs than women. They are now on average doing an hour more of housework and childcare than
1:16:07
they did 20 years ago. So men are doing more than they used to and women generally still
1:16:13
are unhappy with that. So the solution is we have got to, in essence, penalize people
1:16:20
for breaking the marital covenant. We need to do that judicially, like you should not
1:16:26
get 50% of the kids in the home if you are the one that is breaking the covenant. And
1:16:30
we need to do that socially. We need to actually stigmatize people who walk away from their
1:16:35
marriage when there is no reason to walk away. So we have an entire chapter on divorce. It
1:16:41
is something that has not gotten the attention that it deserves. It is responsible for a
1:16:45
disproportionate amount of family breakdown and alienation of men from the marriage like
1:16:50
marketplace overall. And obviously it has been devastating to kids.
1:16:54
Yeah, I mean, the, you go back to Reagan and you mentioned this in the book, you know,
1:16:59
Reagan looks back at his entire political career. And he says one of if not the biggest problem
1:17:04
was when he brought no fault divorce to the state of California when he was governor.
1:17:08
Because again, no fault divorce means like, hey, the person that's at fault for the marriage
1:17:12
falling apart, whether it's infidelity or some sort of abuse, like they, because there are
1:17:15
women who beat their husbands physically, they get 100% custody of the kids. So his
1:17:21
dad can see the kids four days a month and, you know, odd numbered thanksgivings or something
1:17:25
like that. And she gets child support and she gets alimony, right? And she's just an awful,
1:17:31
awful, terrible person. And I look at this way, there's, there's this guy, I forget his name,
1:17:35
but he's like this cowboy wisdom guy on YouTube. He's got blue eyes, big beard always wears
1:17:41
cowboy hat and he just kind of gives these all shucks. He, you know, wisdom quotes and
1:17:44
things like that. And he was just talking about people don't really understand the mental
1:17:49
burden that men are under. Yes, even if they're not good men. But yeah, if you look out in
1:17:54
like, well, she did this many hours of housework, he did this many hours, she worked this job
1:17:58
and made this amount of money. He it's like, no, no, the burden that a man rocks around
1:18:02
with that's why it's hard for me to fall asleep at night. Because it's what have I not done?
1:18:07
Who have I not served? Because no matter what someone's disappointed, because I look at
1:18:11
it this way. So there's a lovely gal in our Sunday school, Jake Winkler is one of our
1:18:15
forging tablers here. So he does a lot with us. But lady Winkler, I call him all ladies.
1:18:19
So lady Winkler, she said, yeah, women are just never satisfied. Because let's say you've
1:18:23
got the man that is crushing it. He's got a business like he's in shape. Like everyone's
1:18:28
like looking to him, makes tons of money. What's the complaint? You're not home enough. You
1:18:32
don't give me enough attention. You don't give the kids enough attention and all these
1:18:35
types of things. So there's a complaint. Then you have the guys that are home. They're they're
1:18:39
seeking the children. They're taking the wisely and date and all that. But let's say he's
1:18:42
not really good at work, right? He keeps getting passed over for promotions because he's a
1:18:46
little bit, you know, more beta in his disposition. He's not closing the deals. He's not hitting
1:18:52
his sales quotas. What's she complain about? Gosh, I don't know where the mortgage payments
1:18:55
going to come from. Honey, are you going to do something about this? We haven't been on
1:18:58
vacation in two years because we can't afford it. Are you going to do something about this?
1:19:01
So it's like, no matter what, either your wife is disappointed, your kids are disappointed,
1:19:07
your boss is disappointed, your friends are disappointed. Dude, you don't come out with
1:19:09
us anymore. Like, I don't remember the last time you came in and worked out with us or
1:19:13
a wind saw ball game with someone's going to be let down. And so that that's part of
1:19:17
the problem is the mental weight in burden that is on men is substantial. But we were
1:19:22
built for it, guys. That's not me giving you an excuse. We were built for that level of
1:19:27
a bird. You're best when you're shouldering a heavy load. And I will say, there is advantages
1:19:32
to having a wife who has high expectations. So marriage, gentlemen, even though there
1:19:40
are a lot of problems with modern marriage, specifically, I would say the incentives around
1:19:44
divorce and that should lead you to incredible caution around who you marry. But you should
1:19:50
get married. You should get married because there's no other pathway that statistically
1:19:55
is going to lead to the same level of your flourishing. Married men have higher rates
1:20:01
of happiness than single men. They obviously have more sex and better sex, especially
1:20:04
if you're a religious man than a single guy. You're going to make more in your job. You're
1:20:09
going to achieve more. You're going to build more wealth. Like, there is a lot of trash
1:20:14
talk about marriage and a lot of it is deserved. But don't think that there's another way to
1:20:19
do this, that shacking up is going to get you this or co-parenting with somebody or creating
1:20:24
some kind of like, you know, arrangement where you're going to have a child on purpose, but
1:20:28
not be married or you're never going to commit to the woman that you're with or you're going
1:20:32
to live a life as a bachelorette forever. I mean, sorry, but maybe a few people are going
1:20:37
to succeed like that. But overall, marriage is still the best plan for men. I would just
1:20:43
say be very judicious about who you marry and go to church. Like we don't have the same
1:20:49
kind of legal scaffolding that is going to enforce these vows. So all you have, the best
1:20:55
we have is going to be a communal scaffolding and an internal scaffolding to say marriage
1:21:01
is right and good. Our vows actually means something and we are going to walk behind
1:21:05
people that have done it well and pattern ourselves after them.
1:21:08
Well, I don't want to veer too far out into right field because we're kind of closing
1:21:12
up on time and there's still a couple of still incendiary topics I want to get to, but you
1:21:15
have these modern, you know, men and women that were basically catechized by Disney movies
1:21:21
about Prince Charming and the princess and I mean, not modern, you know, movies, which
1:21:26
is basically women should be lesbians and, you know, you know, that's modern Disney,
1:21:30
but it's like back in the day you needed, you needed those relationships and you sought
1:21:33
that out. But then you look at the divorce rates amongst arranged marriages and I know
1:21:38
we're not in an arranged marriage culture versus people that just can kind of willy-nilly
1:21:42
pick and find the person that they love. Look at the arranged marriages. They almost never
1:21:45
get divorced. Why? Because they're dedicated to the process of marriage and keeping a
1:21:49
marriage together and they know that love develops over time. So you're lusting after
1:21:55
your girlfriend because she's a smoke show and you're like, I'm going to put a ring on
1:21:58
it because I want this to be like this for forever. It's like brother gravity is undefeated.
1:22:02
It's like eventually some of those things are not going to be the way they look and feel
1:22:04
right now. And so if that is the basis of your relationship is, well, she's super hot.
1:22:09
Like that's not going to be good for you in the long term. Are you dedicated to wedding
1:22:12
or you dedicated to marriage? But in chapter six, Katie, you get into talking about same
1:22:17
sex parents. We did touch on this a little bit earlier, but I want to read a quote here
1:22:21
because there's studies that supposedly prove that any two will do and then the studies
1:22:25
are absolutely bonk. But here's this quote here. The problem with gay parenting isn't
1:22:30
the gay parents. It's the missing parent. Children raised in same sex homes will always
1:22:36
be missing one adult to whom they have a natural right. Biology is a bigot when it comes to
1:22:42
parenthood, it insists on a mother and a father. So again, this gets back to what I'm saying
1:22:46
earlier about, you know, even Catholic organizations or finishes trying to find same sex couples,
1:22:52
you know, you know, two females or two males or even polyamorous relationships and just
1:22:58
place these kids in a home. Hey, this is a loving home. Look, dad and dad, they both
1:23:02
make a ton of money. And so this is going to be, you know, basically cover up, you know,
1:23:06
a bevy of issues because they have money to pay for babysitters or some such. But it becomes
1:23:11
problematic when you look at the actual society. And so like people want to talk about a bird
1:23:17
field and they want to talk about all those things. But it's like God gave us male and
1:23:21
female and told us be fruitful and multiply, create progeny, right, spread your tentacles
1:23:29
out, shoot those arrows into the next generation, those types of things. And that is the setup
1:23:34
that we need and require. And when we bastardize that and we call it marriage to men, it's not
1:23:40
gay marriage. It's it's a gay bonding that they can get a marriage certificate for. But
1:23:44
in the eyes of God who created it, it's not a real thing. But for society, it's almost
1:23:48
like after a bird field, the ship just sailed, Christians and conservatives are like, I don't
1:23:54
want to bring that up anymore. That's the third rail of politics. You got Ted Cruz being
1:23:57
asked about it whenever he was running for president in 2016. And he's just like, you
1:24:02
know, we're just going to go with what the laws in the States say. And why are we all
1:24:05
so scared to say like, no, kids deserve a mother and a father. And it is, it is altogether
1:24:11
unhealthy when children are raised in a situation that isn't that. So why can't we just say
1:24:17
that now? Yeah, well, because we're so focused on the adults, whether it is what the gay
1:24:22
adults wants or whether how hard it would be for our social acceptance. And who we, you
1:24:28
know, might be excluded from if we were to say, kids need mothers and fathers and marriage
1:24:31
actually is the tool that all of society throughout history and every culture and every religion
1:24:36
has used to give it to them. That marriage ultimately is not about adult feeling. It's
1:24:40
not a vehicle of adult fulfillment. It is an institution of justice for children. That
1:24:45
is what marriage is. And you're exactly right. There are a few people are willing to they
1:24:49
don't have the they don't have the balls. They don't have the balls because the social
1:24:52
cost is high. Maybe even the job cost is high. Maybe you're not allowed to say that at work.
1:24:56
Like that's very real in a lot of different workplaces. And yet it's never going to not
1:25:00
be true for kids. Like no amount of saying love makes a family. No five Supreme Court
1:25:05
justices, no amount of passing a lot, no amount of tinkering with children in a laboratory
1:25:10
to try to create a whole a baby that can go to two men or to two women is ever going to
1:25:15
change the reality that children come from a man and woman. They benefit from that man
1:25:19
and woman. They get their biological identity from that man and woman. They're most likely
1:25:24
to be safe and loved when they're raised by that man and woman. You will not overwrite
1:25:28
the reality that the gravitational laws of who children are. We will just suppress it
1:25:33
for a long time and victimize kids in the process. I think you're absolutely right. And again,
1:25:38
we don't the mind shift. If you get nothing else from this conversation, which if you've
1:25:42
got nothing so far, what are you still doing here? Move on and go listen to your feminism
1:25:45
podcast and go eat your go eat your vegan hamburger. But like at this point, just shifting
1:25:52
the mindset and being like, how does this affect the children? So you've got biblical
1:25:57
grounds to divorce divorce your spouse, right? You know, death, adultery, abandonment, right?
1:26:03
You feel like your husband's abandoned your marriage or your wife's abandoned your marriage
1:26:07
and you're thinking about your happiness and all the things you could do if you were given
1:26:09
the reset button, but you have children. And then you think about it from their perspective
1:26:14
and you're like, Oh, okay, well, I'm going to do the thing that's harder, right? So that's
1:26:19
what I've told some of these guys that have been absolutely screwed by these women in
1:26:22
their lives. Well, everything except screwed, I guess is one way to say it. But they've
1:26:26
they've done these things. And I'm like, brother, I'm not saying this is justified. I'm not
1:26:30
even saying it's good. And I'm definitely saying it ain't going to be any fun. But that's
1:26:35
what you're going to do. You're going to do what it takes because people I've heard from
1:26:38
a lot of well-meaning counselors, because I got some counselors, I know that are good
1:26:41
buddies and I've heard all the different, you know, things and I've read the Gary Thomas
1:26:44
books and all that, but they're just like staying together for the kids is not a good
1:26:47
long term solution. I'm like, it is for the kids. And actually, when you think about it,
1:26:51
when you think about it from their perspective, because again, what did I say earlier about
1:26:54
arrange marriages? Sometimes you realize, Oh, if I practice this whole loving my wife's
1:26:59
thing, if I practice this whole loving my husband thing, if I practice this whole, I'm
1:27:03
going to be a helpmate fit for him. And I'm going to love her as Christ loved the church.
1:27:07
It's crazy, Katie breaking news. Second breaking news on the show. It starts to work. It starts
1:27:12
to work. It's like we start actually embracing the roles that were given to us by God before
1:27:18
time and memoriam. And it starts to actually work out. But we've done all this. We've gone
1:27:22
into all these different subject matters. But now we need to weave into the subject matter
1:27:26
that has, I guess been the most controversial because I again, I told you off here, I have
1:27:31
some very controversial takes like, Hey, let's not, you know, murdered babies when they're
1:27:36
residing in their mother's womb. That's bad. Hey, little girls can't turn into little boys
1:27:40
no matter how much surgical intervention you do. That's bad. I've even gone out on limb
1:27:44
and this has gotten me a lot of hate mail. I don't think pit bulls should be able to be
1:27:47
owned because they're essentially wild animals. I personally like them. If I was a single guy
1:27:52
without nieces and nephews or kids, I would have a pit bull because they're athletic and
1:27:55
cool. But you know what? Pit bulls aren't mauling 38 year old in shape guys to death. They're
1:27:59
mauling elderly women and little babies to death. Okay. So I don't think pit bulls should
1:28:02
be out. All right, that's terrible. But whenever I came out and started talking about IVF,
1:28:07
holy Moses and Katie, I had people that just looked at the episode of my show, which was
1:28:13
Christian should not use IVF. That was the name of the episode. And people would not
1:28:17
listen to the episode. I talked for 45 minutes on the subject, but I've lost friends. I almost
1:28:24
lost sponsors over it. I have some very strategic and powerful and good partnerships that were
1:28:29
called into question because I started saying these things out loud, because I was ignorant
1:28:35
on the IVF process and what was actually going on in the moral implications therein.
1:28:41
But you know, the people that do the 40 days for life, their book kind of helped me wait
1:28:45
a minute. I thought this was just a morally neutral thing. And then I hear Lila Rose of
1:28:49
life action, a live action talking about it. Then I hear the great Al Moller talk about
1:28:54
I'm like, wait a minute, maybe I should pause, dig deep, really get a philosophy here. And
1:28:58
I was just shocked by what I found out about the process because, and you talk about this
1:29:03
in the book and we can't go into all the detail, guys go pick up the book. It's in the show
1:29:05
notes, the sheer number of human beings that are killed in the process of IVF, the commodification
1:29:11
of wombs, sperm, eggs, the problem with eugenics and designer babies like, Oh, I want, you know,
1:29:16
I want a donor or a surrogate that was like athletic and has blue eyes and tan skin. There's
1:29:22
no such thing as a donor, really, because a lot of these people are profiting off the
1:29:26
process, gay men, always seeming to adopt or to make out of thin air mail babies. And we're
1:29:33
not supposed to question why they keep doing that and why it's overwhelmingly male. You
1:29:37
know, even in the book, he talked about genealogical bewilderment. But I do want to read a couple
1:29:42
of quotes from the book. And then this is where we'll, we'll end our discussion today
1:29:45
because IVF and surrogacy, my goodness, people have fervently, like very aggressive opinions
1:29:51
on it, but they don't know jack about it. So let me read these quotes here. It big fertility
1:29:56
transgressions against children were on parade. It would prove impossible to pick the most
1:30:01
appalling float. Undesirable embryos are routinely discarded before they can even catch a glimpse
1:30:06
of life. Whom side, while those lucky enough to get a shot at life in utero will face the
1:30:11
gauntlet of selective reduction. Selective reduction is science speak for abortion between
1:30:17
12 and 20 weeks. surplus embryos trapped frozen and suspended animation are eventually thought
1:30:23
and discarded, donated to research or put up for embryo adoption. For an industry in service
1:30:28
to making new life, it sure does an awful or it sure does an awful lot of taking new life.
1:30:36
And then a little bit later in a subsequent section of the book, surrogacy comes in two
1:30:41
forms, traditional surrogacy in which the mother is impregnated with her own genetic child and
1:30:46
gestational surrogacy in which the mother is impregnated with donor eggs, surrogacy segments
1:30:52
what nature intends to be one woman, genetic mother, birth mother and social mother into
1:30:58
three separate and in effect, optional women. And so this is going to be the section that
1:31:05
if you come in with preconceived notions about, Hey, surrogacy two thumbs up, IVF two thumbs
1:31:10
up and even Katie, my personal family, I have a niece and nephew because of the process
1:31:14
of IVF. Okay. This, but this was before I looked into it. Now I'm like, how many other
1:31:19
nieces and nephews do I have that are in frozen arrested development? That'll never
1:31:23
see the light a day. And so there's not really a question in there, Katie, I just really
1:31:27
needed to establish what we're about to jump into because guys, this is very, very important.
1:31:33
And you need to accept some things that might be hard to swallow. So I'll turn it over to
1:31:36
you.
1:31:37
All right, Kyle is right. Kyle is right. All of you guys who are like, I don't know about
1:31:44
this or all of the donors or all of the different partners. If you're like, I don't like that
1:31:48
he's talking about it via Kyle is right. You are wrong. And I'm sorry, but there is no
1:31:54
statistical way to say this otherwise. Now the reason why you are feeling a little bit
1:32:00
threatened right now is because we have now finally touched on a subject that interferes
1:32:05
that intersects with something that you want. You were fine. And when we were talking about
1:32:09
how all of these women are initiating divorces against men and that's such an injustice and
1:32:13
you were okay when we were talking about how same sex parents are going to deny something
1:32:17
that children need. But now we're in a realm where like, wait a second, now you're talking
1:32:21
about me and my people. Yes, we are. Because in the world of putting children first, no
1:32:28
adult group gets a pass. In the world of children's rights, all adults single married gay, straight,
1:32:37
fertile and infertile have to do hard things on behalf of children. Because the only alternative
1:32:43
is for children to do hard things for you. And that is an injustice. Certainly that's
1:32:48
an injustice. If you consider yourself to be somebody that is following the God of scripture,
1:32:52
the God of scripture that always said it is the strong whose sacrifice for the week and
1:32:56
never the other way around. If you believe that life begins at conception, you actually
1:33:01
have a greater enemy in big fertility than you do in Planned Parenthood. We don't exactly
1:33:05
have the numbers on the little lives that are victimized every year by fertility clinics
1:33:11
because they don't require they're not required to attract no share what they do with these
1:33:15
little lives. But it's a safe estimate that it could be four times the number of children
1:33:20
are killed through the process of IVF as are killed through the process of abortion every
1:33:26
year. We love the niece and nephew that was born through IVF. We just wish that all of
1:33:32
their siblings could have been born as well. The best estimate that we have is that only
1:33:38
three to seven percent of lab made babies are going to be born alive. The vast majority
1:33:44
are going to be graded out of, they literally grade children. They grade them A, B, C, D,
1:33:51
E, A, B, C, D. You know, and then they'll say we're going to chuck the C and D grade embryos.
1:33:56
We're going to keep A and B embryos. We're going to plant a couple of the A ones. We're
1:33:59
going to freeze some of this surplus. And then before you even get to the point where
1:34:03
you're planting and freezing, you're genetically screening. Oh, it looks like this baby might
1:34:07
have some kind of, they're going to be donated to research. Oh boy, we've got eight kids,
1:34:13
two girls and six boys. We don't need that many boys. We're going to donate four of
1:34:17
those boys to research. When you are sidewalk counseling, somebody that is considering abortion,
1:34:22
you're typically got one life on the line. Correct. One life that you're trying to save.
1:34:27
But when Paris Hilton goes in to get her IVF babies, may she has 20, 20 of them. Unfortunately
1:34:34
for those 20, they were all boys, but Paris wanted a girl. What do you think is going
1:34:38
to happen to those 20 boys? So this is a eugenics process. This is not primarily about
1:34:43
babies. We love the babies that are born alive. The truth is the vast majority never
1:34:48
will be and it's not because they went through a process where they just naturally aborted
1:34:54
in the mother's body. You know, it wasn't meant to be they didn't implant. It is because
1:34:58
some technician decides who lives and who dies. And what we're having, what's happening
1:35:02
in big fertility is a mass scale of child victimization. So this makes you uncomfortable.
1:35:09
Welcome to the world of children's rights. This is where we protect kids even if it runs
1:35:15
up against our own self interest. Well, Katie, it makes me uncomfortable because it because
1:35:21
again, I've lost friends that were in my wedding because of the title of a podcast,
1:35:26
which means their ignorant doofuses that are do phy. I don't know what the plural doofuses
1:35:31
I need to figure that out. This is the second time I've said that on the show, but people
1:35:34
that are not intellectually honest that don't want to actually engage with the content because
1:35:38
this is what I've always told people. If I've said something that is inaccurate, right?
1:35:42
So we're all I'm talking about a new story or I'm quoting someone and it's inaccurate.
1:35:46
Please let me know. I'm always fine to follow my sword and correct the record when I've
1:35:49
said something incorrectly. But if you don't like the way I said something because of my
1:35:55
tone or because of your political or philosophical priors, that's a you problem. Okay. And the
1:36:01
thing about this is we are so this goes back to when you were doing your little chicken
1:36:06
blog right back in the day, this goes back to we don't want to be seen as bigoted and
1:36:10
judgmental. When when when the Bible when Jesus talks about, you know, judge not less
1:36:16
he be judged, he's talking about not judging from a place of piety, not judging from a
1:36:21
place of self righteousness to avoid hypocritical judgment. But then we see throughout scripture
1:36:26
with Jesus's words and the words from Paul, we are to judge people, but we're just to
1:36:30
judge them appropriately because who else is going to judge them this side of the great
1:36:35
white throne judgment. And so that is something that I think a lot of people need to understand.
1:36:40
This doesn't mean that you go into your buddy's house, because you know, they're going through
1:36:44
the IVF process and you like just castigate them and like call them these terrible horrible
1:36:48
murders. The thing is, is most of them don't know what they're doing. I don't buy the nonsense
1:36:54
now in the pro life or pro abortion debate, which is that these women don't know what
1:36:57
they're doing. Yes, they do. They've been convinced that it's just a clump of cells,
1:37:02
which is why you know, Planned Parenthood and all these places, they don't want to show you
1:37:04
ultrasounds and they don't want to do all that because you'll see the beating heart of an
1:37:07
actual baby in their right and then you won't want to kill your own progeny. But that that's
1:37:12
the thing that most people are not reckoning with. This is a difficult thing. Yes, but it's
1:37:17
also a necessary thing. It's the same thing whenever I train people on how to respond to
1:37:22
pro abortion arguments, because they'll then now they run to it. But what if she's raped
1:37:26
is always the thing. And I say, I agree with you that we should punish the rapist.
1:37:31
Right. But I don't agree with you that we should give the death penalty to the child.
1:37:35
Because guess what? If my dad goes into a liquor store, robs them and then shoots the
1:37:40
clerk on the way out, I don't get the death penalty for that. Right. That's something
1:37:44
my dad did. Right. And so it's just one of those things that, well, I guess we can just
1:37:48
end here, Katie, with all of the things we've talked about today, like these are, these
1:37:52
are third rails on a lot of people's lives and relationships and they just don't want
1:37:56
to go anywhere near this. And they may, you know, quietly listen to some Jordan Peterson
1:38:00
podcast or Ben Shapiro, Charlie Kirk and me, and they're trying to like figure out how
1:38:04
they can have these arguments in their life. But then when it comes time to actually push
1:38:07
back the darkness, they're too cowardly to do it. What would you say to those people?
1:38:11
Okay. If you're a Christian, this is your job. There has never been a culture where
1:38:18
Christians have not gone into it where the lives and the well-being of children have
1:38:22
not improved. And every culture has some distinct kind of like novel way of victimizing kids.
1:38:27
You know, the Christian missionaries that went to China had to combat foot binding.
1:38:31
And Amy Carmichael, when she went to India had to combat ritualistic child prostitution
1:38:37
in their temples. And everywhere that Christians have gone, literacy rates have gone up and
1:38:41
abortion rates have gone down. And we eradicated we Christians in the first century eradicated
1:38:46
the widespread practice of Roman exposure of infants. Well, guess what? We also have
1:38:52
distinct ways that we are victimizing children. And I think that we're pretty familiar with
1:38:56
abortion. Obviously, we're against things like child abuse. We all hate child trafficking,
1:39:00
which by the way is connected to surrogacy. And you can like Google, Katie Faust surrogacy
1:39:04
and find out more about that. But one of the novel ways that our culture is victimizing
1:39:08
children is through reproductive technologies, right at the earliest moments of their life.
1:39:13
And so this is the kind of thing where don't venerate all of the Christians of the past
1:39:18
and how they civilized the world through these ideas about immago day that dignified women
1:39:23
and children in the most vulnerable. Don't do that. Unless you're also willing to confront
1:39:28
the cultural issues, the cultural threat to the most vulnerable today. And part of that
1:39:33
is IVF and surrogacy and sperm and egg donation. We have two chapters on this in our book with
1:39:40
dozens of testimonies of kids who had to be created this way. It's an impact that it
1:39:44
had on their identity, on their sense of self, on their well being on, you know, experiencing
1:39:49
mother hunger or father hunger, or feeling like a eugenics project or like they were
1:39:53
bought and sold because they were bought and sold. Don't go look back on William, on
1:39:59
Wilberforce and be like, Oh, wow, he eradicated slavery without going what the F we are literally
1:40:04
buying and selling children right now through contracts in the name of commercial surrogacy,
1:40:09
but we're not looking back and calling it a tragedy. We are saying this is progress.
1:40:13
So this is a place where you just need to grow. You need to grow. And especially if you're
1:40:17
a man, this is an area where you have to step into it because you do have broader shoulders.
1:40:22
You are made for war in what I am not naturally made for war. I don't like the confrontation.
1:40:27
You guys kind of like it. And we actually need you in on this fight because this positionally
1:40:32
you're probably more wired for this than I am. And so become educated on the topic,
1:40:37
become an expert on the topic and then come what may you stand for the most vulnerable.
1:40:42
It is what good Christian men have done throughout history and we need you now more than ever.
1:40:47
And be looking men. Obviously, I co signed that be looking for evidence of your own conscience
1:40:53
being seared. There's a story from the New York Post that, you know, this would have
1:40:56
been back in April. Heartless Nebraska teen who slit newborn son's throat after secret
1:41:02
birth to spend at least 35 years behind bars for gruesome slang. And when you look at the
1:41:07
comments on that story, it's all what an evil, terrible woman barrier under the jail death
1:41:13
by firing squad, all the things. But guess what? If instead of slitting her baby's throat
1:41:19
before birth, if she had walked into an abortion clinic and paid an assassin, $500 to do it
1:41:24
for him, you would have defended it as her right to choose. So do not give me this nonsense
1:41:29
about caring about the lease of these when the most lease of these are the ones that
1:41:33
are in the most trouble. You want to talk about leading causes of death every year? Yeah,
1:41:38
heart disease is terrible. Yeah, you have people that die from medical air. That's always
1:41:42
in the top five. Everything pales in comparison to abortion, because between 800,000 and a
1:41:47
million Americans are killed on an annualized basis for a myriad of reasons that don't typically
1:41:53
go to the hard cases that most of you will bring up. But I'm not gonna go ahead. Worshin
1:41:57
pales in comparison to IVF. Okay. That's that's a parent now. And an IVF presents even more
1:42:05
threats. I mean, like, not only are kids at risk of losing their right to life, they're
1:42:09
very often separated from one or both biological parents. They're very often sold through a
1:42:13
commercial surrogacy process. So like once you're making babies in a laboratory, it's
1:42:17
not just their life that's at risk. It's their whole life trajectory that's at risk. So I
1:42:22
know this is new. I know it's uncomfortable. Kyle is right. Give him money. And guys, when
1:42:27
it's right, double down because I heard all the things I got all the negative feedback.
1:42:33
And then I did an episode this year called Planned Parenthood kills more, but more children
1:42:37
than or sorry, IVF kills more children than Planned Parenthood. So it's like, if you thought
1:42:42
I was going to go quiet on the IVF front, that's just not what I was built for. But
1:42:46
Katie, we have weaved in out in and out of a bunch of different subjects. I'm so thankful
1:42:50
for them before us for you, your work that you do there for this book. Again, all that
1:42:54
will be in the show notes guys, so you can go and check them out and you know, support
1:42:57
them any way that you can. But that is all for me. Is there anything else you want to
1:43:00
get off your chest?
1:43:01
No, I just love strong men. And I'm grateful for strong men. And I feel like, you know,
1:43:06
you strong men who are believers are leading a host of captives of young men out of the
1:43:11
terrible culture that we've created that distinctly demonizes them for being male or white or
1:43:16
Christian or all of the above. And personally, I've got two teenage boys at home. And I say
1:43:23
I because my husband is now in the Navy. And so he's out at sea right now. So my husband
1:43:26
is obviously very involved in our family, but right now it's me and the boys. I'm so
1:43:30
grateful for the good men all around them at church that they're following online that
1:43:35
are appropriately mocking this culture and all of the Instagram reels that they send
1:43:38
to me. Don't stop. Don't stop. Like we actually need you good, strong Christian virtuous men
1:43:45
who are courageous and willing to speak up even if you lose friends, even if it makes
1:43:49
you unpopular, even if especially if it means you may not get what you want. That is the
1:43:54
world that we need.
1:43:55
Let's leave it there. Katie, let's make sure this isn't the last time we connect. We'll
1:43:58
talk again soon. Perfect.
1:44:01
There you go guys. I hope you enjoyed my time with Katie Faust. But before we let you go,
1:44:04
we are going to do a quick resilience boost add a don to life or mission is equipping
1:44:07
men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual mental and physical resilience.
1:44:11
So I've got three links for you today. I may throw another one in there, but the three
1:44:14
links that will definitely be there is a link to Katie's website, a link to them before us
1:44:18
and a link to where you can buy that book that we talked about them before us, why we
1:44:23
need a global children's rights movement. And right there on Amazon on the same page,
1:44:26
you'll be able to find her other two books as well.
1:44:29
Thank you for listening to this podcast. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe
1:44:32
rate and leave us a positive five star review. If you want me to come speak live at your event
1:44:36
or on your podcast, just shoot me an email to info@undonton.life. That's I N F O at
1:44:41
undonton.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website
1:44:45
for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your
1:44:48
way. Just go to www.undonton.life. And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing
1:44:53
us to use their music for our content. The music on this podcast is their song Perpetua,
1:44:57
which is off their self title debut album on Face Down Records. The links are in the description.
1:45:02
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual,
1:45:08
mental and physical resilience. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
1:45:27
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