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[MUSIC]
1:18
This is Undaunted Life Man's Podcast.
1:21
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
1:23
Let's get into it.
1:24
All right, guys.
1:25
We've got a special return guest on the podcast, and you know exactly who it is.
1:28
If you were watching and listening to the previous episode when I was going over the
1:32
best books of 2023, because I told you we had a surprise interview, and the surprise
1:36
interview is with the one and only Justin Briarley, because I have given his book that he released
1:41
this year, The Surprising Rebirth of Belief in God, the title, the vaunted title of the
1:46
2023 book of the year, at least according to Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
1:50
And so he's been on this podcast, I think, three other times before, so you can go back
1:54
and listen to all those other interviews.
1:56
But in this interview, we just talk about the release of the book, the things that he's
1:59
seen, the kind of the fruit that he's seen from this book since it's released.
2:03
Some of the things that he wished he would have put in there, but just the timing didn't
2:06
quite work out.
2:07
But man, we went all over the place in this conversation talking about his current project,
2:10
projects he has coming up.
2:12
It's a great, short interview.
2:13
We just kind of snuck it in, and if you're wondering why it looks like I was recording
2:17
in the middle of the night, if you're watching it on video, it's because I was recording
2:20
it basically in the middle of the night, because to get it to where it worked with his schedule
2:23
in the UK, I had to wake up real early here to kind of pull this all up.
2:26
But we got it squared away because I wanted to make sure that we had a quick little interview,
2:30
a little bonus thing for you guys.
2:32
So tell me, thank you, right?
2:33
I gave you guys a little late Christmas present.
2:35
So you're welcome.
2:36
But guys, without further ado, let's get into it.
2:39
Hey, Justin, Bradley, welcome back to Undaunted Life, a man's podcast, but you were my first
2:43
surprise interview to ever happen because if you, if you listened to my entire episode
2:49
about the best books of 2023, I surprise the audience with a surprise interview.
2:52
And it's you.
2:54
Have fun.
2:55
Wow.
2:56
That is really cool.
2:57
And I feel honored.
2:58
Thank you, Kyle.
2:59
What an honor.
3:00
Well, I will tell you, Justin, I know you've gotten a lot of plaudits and I know you've
3:02
gotten a lot of praise over your career, but just first real question.
3:07
What does it feel like to literally get the highest honor that you've ever gotten in your
3:11
entire career, which is the vaunted best book of the year by Undaunted Life, a man's podcast?
3:16
I thought all of those on our honors and plaudits would somehow fulfill me.
3:21
They never did, only this has truly fulfilled my life, Kyle.
3:24
So I, what can I say?
3:26
Well, and the thing was, you would think that I plan that because I like you so much, but
3:31
I didn't, I didn't plan it in, in just in all honesty and I told you this off air, I,
3:37
I feel no need to give somebody praise if they don't deserve it.
3:41
Like I just don't have it in my personality.
3:43
Like if somebody sucks, I'll probably more likely tell them they suck than to tell them
3:47
that they're just, yo, yeah, you're, you're perfect, you're a perfect little snowflake,
3:50
but the surprising were rebirth, a belief in God.
3:54
I don't want to, it may sound offensive for me to say that I was surprised, but I wasn't
3:57
expecting this based off of some of the other stuff that, that I've read of yours and it
4:02
wasn't because the stuff that I've read of yours wasn't good.
4:05
It was obviously the opposite of that, but it was just because the arguments that were
4:08
made, how forceful it was from the beginning because I, I, maybe I've been little to sleep
4:13
just and there's a lot of books that are punchy towards the big, the middle and the
4:17
end.
4:18
Yours was punchy from the beginning.
4:19
Was that part of the plan?
4:21
Well, I, all I can say is it was the book I had inside me and the, and you know, that,
4:27
that first chapter, I just knew that there was this story to tell about the changing
4:32
conversation on God about the way that the new atheism had risen and fallen.
4:37
And yeah, it just sort of seemed to flow.
4:39
So all joking aside, I am genuinely honored that you, you chose this book as your, your
4:44
book of the year car.
4:45
So, so thank you very much.
4:46
Well, and as everybody saw on the list before, there were some monsters that were on the
4:50
list before I got to number one, but it's one of those things like whenever I sat down
4:54
because I, as I finish a book, I'll put a note on my phone that I finished that book.
4:58
But if ones that, if there's one that I know by the end of the year will probably be in
5:02
my top five, top 10, I, I just will, you know, bold it, but then I don't think about it again.
5:07
So I go back to the list and then I start evaluating.
5:10
And this year, I mean, like the top five, I was like, how in the world, the difference
5:14
between five and four, I felt like I was splitting hairs.
5:17
But honestly, the way that the cookie crumbled was me going back to our old interview and
5:23
me just, we spent so much time just on the first chapter.
5:26
And so I guess from a, a writing standpoint, since I'm not an author, a published author
5:31
myself, was there any concern from you or the editor or anyone like that by putting
5:37
so much dense material on that first chapter?
5:41
Did people think, ah, this might turn people off or you need to, you know, get people to
5:46
read a few chapters to get a little bit of momentum or anything like that.
5:49
Was any of that part of the consideration?
5:52
I remember.
5:53
So it's interesting.
5:54
You focus on the first chapter because I wrote the first chapter kind of as a, almost
5:59
as a pitch for the book to some publishers a couple of years ago now, when I was first
6:03
and, and it got a lot of interest actually, um, and people felt this was an exciting story.
6:09
The question was whether the momentum could in a sense, yeah, could be continued through
6:13
the remaining chapters because the first chapter does tell a very specific unique story about
6:16
this rise of this movement of new atheism and how it kind of all internally collapsed for
6:21
all of these kinds of reasons to do with the growing culture wars and everything else.
6:25
But I felt there was actually a really interesting story to be told about what happened in the
6:29
wake of that collapse and I, and I hope you know that I did do a good job of actually showing
6:32
the way in which this conversation has now emerged, uh, you know, out of that whole scenario.
6:38
So it was, yeah, it was definitely what one of those things where I felt like I had a really
6:42
strong start to the book, whether it could be continued was the next question.
6:46
But yeah, I'm, I'm glad to say that, that it seems to have done that.
6:49
And, uh, happily, Kyle, you're not the only platform to have recognized the book.
6:54
Um, it actually did, uh, did make the finalist list for the Christianity Today's book awards
6:59
as well in the apologetics and evangelism category.
7:01
Yeah, we don't care about them.
7:03
No, no, no.
7:04
Reads them anymore.
7:05
Absolutely.
7:06
Yeah.
7:07
I was going to say, I mean, Christianity, who I mean, come on.
7:09
This isn't the 1950s when Billy Graham was running it.
7:12
Okay.
7:13
This is, this is the now time and nobody likes anybody over there anymore.
7:16
Well, just, let's just talk to, let's just start generically, uh, what interesting things
7:21
have you seen this year since the book has been released?
7:24
What's some interesting feedback that you've gotten?
7:26
Like, how do you feel about how the book has done in terms of its impact so far?
7:30
Yeah.
7:31
But I've just been delighted with the feedback I've had, um, so many people coming out of
7:37
the blue to tell me that they've read the book, they've enjoyed the book, um, lots of
7:41
people across different sort of spectrums, if you like, not just Christians, but non-Christians
7:47
who have been reading it.
7:48
I've had dozens of emails from people who said, I basically been on the journey you described
7:53
in this book, Justin.
7:54
I was basically a new atheist a few years ago and I've come around and that sometimes
7:59
they're people who are kind of still exploring, whether Christianity is true or people have
8:03
gone all the way.
8:04
Um, so that's been really interesting.
8:06
The other kind of really exciting thing actually is seeing the book kind of playing out in
8:10
real time, this or much.
8:13
So I'm sure you may have heard of this story of Iann Hersey Ali, who was this ex Muslim,
8:18
Somali born, um, speaker and thinker, who was very much in the mid 2000s, part of the
8:24
new atheist set, uh, who shared stages with Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins and others.
8:29
And then just last month in November, writes this viral article for Unheard titled Why
8:35
I Am Now A Christian and essentially spells out more or less the thesis of much of the
8:39
book of the reasons why she has embraced Christianity.
8:42
Now that provoked all kinds of interesting responses from both skeptics and Christians.
8:46
Well, is this a real conversion?
8:48
Because it was a lot of kind of civilizational cultural kind of issues she was dealing with.
8:52
So you go on and read more of the article and some of her other interviews.
8:56
You see, there's obviously a spiritual pull towards Christianity going on as well.
9:00
So it's, it's obviously not the end of her story, but so interesting to see what I describe
9:05
in the book happening then in that very specific, quite high profile instance and, and, and
9:10
being able to then kind of tell those stories, um, in real time, because I've now launched
9:15
the podcast that goes with the book.
9:17
So we were able to kind of pick up some of that current stuff going on.
9:20
So yeah, it's, it's been a really, really exciting and yeah, very gratifying to see that all
9:24
happening.
9:25
When I want to make sure that we talk about the podcast, the new podcast where we get
9:28
out of here, but, um, you know, I on her, she Ali, but obviously there was another one
9:32
Kat Von D. So I don't know how big she is over in the UK, but in America, like she's
9:36
very popular.
9:37
She had a very popular show has, you know, millions of Twitter followers and Instagram
9:41
followers and all that.
9:42
And then all of a sudden comes out with that beautifully produced video of her getting
9:46
baptized, and I just remember, and I don't know if this is just my personal sin, cynicism
9:51
or pessimism.
9:52
My first thought was, is she about to launch like a new clothing line?
9:56
Like, is this like it's going to have a bunch of black crosses on it or something like that.
10:01
But then you hear her interview with Ali best Stucky.
10:03
You hear some of the other stuff she's done.
10:06
And I was just, I was so moved for whatever reason, like I'm even getting a little bit
10:11
emotional thinking about it now because you can tell she means it, but she's, she's like
10:16
a baby deer right now.
10:18
Yeah.
10:19
And so immediately the heresy hunter people were all after for not using the right language
10:23
or saying that she chose Jesus because obviously Jesus chose you because I'm a Calvinist and
10:28
I'm right.
10:29
But it's like, I think that we're going to have so many more opportunities as Christians,
10:34
Justin, to embrace these people that have big profiles and say, Hey, our tents real big.
10:40
Like, you know, you happen to have more Instagram followers than me, but you were just as lost
10:43
as grandma was.
10:44
Yeah.
10:45
Before the end of this.
10:46
Do you feel like we're going to see more of this kind of, you know, celebrity-ish type
10:50
thing coming?
10:51
Yeah.
10:52
And I hope obviously it's great in a sense when it is the well-known people that I and
10:57
her Cialis, Kat Von D and so on, those kind of who already have a platform and a celebrity
11:02
to status because it helps us to feel like, Hey, there's something significant going on.
11:06
But at the same time, I have that concern that a we don't want to put them on suddenly
11:11
on some pedestal.
11:12
They are, as you say, just at the very beginning of their journey.
11:15
And I do get really, yeah, I get a similarly annoyed when Christians steam in saying,
11:21
you didn't get this right.
11:22
You didn't use the right language.
11:23
It's like, come on, give them a chance to even get established.
11:26
I mean, when you were first became a Christian, did you have everything sorted out in your
11:30
mind?
11:31
Of course you didn't.
11:32
And likewise, I think it's just a case of actually understanding that this is all God's
11:38
grace.
11:39
Okay.
11:40
That's the faith for all kinds of motives that never pure.
11:43
None of us become Christians for all the right reasons.
11:45
Okay.
11:46
But that's okay because that's where the way God works in his grace.
11:48
And so let's just give them the space to have the journey they need to go on.
11:53
And let's just rejoice in the fact that people are finding Christ in these sorts of ways.
11:58
Now we can then talk about, you know, the bigger picture and the social situations and,
12:02
you know, the cultural movements that are happening.
12:04
And that's what I'm doing through the book and the podcast.
12:07
And I don't want us to sort of just jump on these stories and immediately start to tear
12:11
into them.
12:12
I think that we can, we can celebrate them.
12:14
We can give them some space to be who they are and to go on that journey.
12:18
When I think there's another somewhat nefarious undercurrent that happens with things like
12:21
this, Justin, it's that some people want really cool people on their team.
12:26
So in America, when Kanye West started wearing the MAGA hat and going and hanging out with
12:32
Donald Trump and saying he was a Republican and all that type of stuff, people that otherwise
12:36
would have hated Kanye West just because of the kind of music he makes and some of the
12:40
ways that he's treated women and things that he's, you know, wrapped about or whatever.
12:44
They were all said like, Oh, we got a cool guy on our team.
12:47
He's got like, you know, 30 million followers on Instagram and now he's on our team.
12:51
And then it's like, you know, as Ben Shapiro said, you live by the Kanye, die by the Kanye.
12:54
And then so that, that plane crashed and burned pretty heavily.
12:58
But I, I get concerned when Christians are so invested in Jordan Peterson coming to Christ
13:06
or Joe Rogan coming to Christ or pick a famous person coming to Christ where it's like, guys,
13:12
your neighbor is lost.
13:14
Your neighbor actually, you can have an impact on that person's life and share the gospel
13:18
with them.
13:19
And you're worried about a podcaster or a famous author.
13:22
Talk to me a little bit about that because I get concerned that Christians are focusing
13:24
on that.
13:25
Yeah.
13:26
I totally agree.
13:27
And I think the big mistake is for us as Christians or as a church to hitch our bandwagon
13:32
to any individual or any celebrity, that's always going to be a route to disappointment
13:36
because they are human, you know, and they will fall off those pedestals.
13:39
I really appreciate Jordan Peterson and a lot of his wisdom and the questions he's asking,
13:44
but he doesn't have all the right answers.
13:46
Of course he doesn't.
13:47
And, and yeah, he may, maybe he will eventually find his way into orthodox Christianity.
13:52
That would be wonderful.
13:53
But I'm still not going to be treating him as some kind of messiah figure, a spiritual
13:56
leader.
13:57
I think he's, he's an important voice and it's important to see that.
14:01
What I really appreciate though is that he's actually, I'm not so concerned about actually
14:05
where he ends up himself, because I think, you know, none of us will really in the end
14:10
know the heart of Jordan Peterson.
14:12
We can leave that stuff to God, but what I am interested in is he seems to be opening
14:16
up the door to other people, especially not a young men to take Christianity seriously.
14:21
And I know many people who have walked through that door to, you know, vibrant, committed
14:25
Christian faith.
14:26
And so to that extent, you know, that's what I want to celebrate.
14:29
If you like, not Peterson per se, and his wherever he is on that journey, but the fact
14:34
that people are finding God because he opened a door for them, you know, hey guys, real
14:39
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14:40
I've talked about this on the show before, but I've been experimenting with the idea of
14:42
getting on the carnivore diet.
14:44
And so I've got a good buddy, Chad Robocho, who's been on the podcast that he's been
14:47
on the carnivore diet for a while.
14:48
He's seen a lot of great success.
14:50
But the big thing that I've been worrying about is like, where do I get high quality
14:53
beef?
14:54
Like where exactly can I get beef where I can trust that's coming from reputable source
14:58
that it doesn't have a bunch of junk that's been in it.
15:00
And I've been looking for a cattle operation partner to really partner up with.
15:04
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15:11
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15:13
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15:18
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15:22
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15:23
But what makes Primal Beef different from the other fly by night beef delivery companies?
15:28
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15:30
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15:33
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15:45
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15:50
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15:54
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15:56
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16:22
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16:37
When he's become a pseudo spiritual father and I don't mean that in a negative way because
16:41
some people would say that in a negative way.
16:43
So just in one aspect, Justin, that he has given people license to take the scriptures
16:50
seriously, because he himself takes them so seriously.
16:54
Regardless of whether or not he thinks they're mytho history, like what William Lane Craig
16:58
might say or some sort of thing like that, he takes them so seriously, a 25 year old skeptic
17:05
who was marinated in the government schools and then went to a university and was further
17:10
marinated in that ideology is all of a sudden like, wait a minute, maybe this isn't just
17:14
a book of miss.
17:15
Maybe this isn't just a book that's changed a million times over the last couple of thousand
17:20
years.
17:21
Maybe this is something I should actually reckon with and then they go to God's Word and God
17:24
speaks to them.
17:25
I think that's a very important thing to think about as well.
17:28
Now, Justin, I'm the type of person that I'm my biggest critic.
17:33
So if I put out a podcast, if I write a devotional, if I write a sentence via text and then I go
17:37
back and read and go, Oh God, you're so dumb.
17:41
Like, what, what were you thinking?
17:43
And so that's just how I am now I'm well over 500 podcasts and now.
17:46
And so I've had to kind of chill out just a little bit, like give myself some grace and
17:50
really love myself and all that nonsense.
17:53
But for you, I'm sure that there are things that you wish you could have put in the book
17:57
or wish that you did put in the book or you're like, Oh my gosh, I should have argued this
18:00
and I just left it out entirely.
18:02
Give me the backstory.
18:03
What are some of those things you wish were in the book?
18:06
Oh, yeah, there's, there's so many things that you do come to afterwards and realize,
18:10
Hey, that, that would have made so much sense to, to have included.
18:13
I mean, I mean, in a, in a funny way, you know, had I known about Diane Herciali's kind
18:17
of the movement she was going in, that, that would have been just been a perfect story to,
18:21
to include in the book.
18:22
It's just so perfectly encapsulates the kind of movement that I'm talking about.
18:25
So, so I feel like, Hey, I should have at least given her a mention, you know, the book,
18:30
maybe second edition that will come around.
18:32
I think the other, the other aspect, I think my thoughts are just crystallized a lot on,
18:37
on certain issues.
18:39
And so for instance, I, I really get the sense now that I only discovered after I'd kind
18:46
of, yeah, sent off the manuscript that the, for instance, some new atheist authors think
18:51
is like Peter Bogosian, we're already talking in very similar terms to the way I talk in
18:55
the book about the idea that we're all inherently religious and we will make a religion out
18:59
of something if it's not Christianity and, and it turned out Peter Bogosian had already
19:03
kind of given this a name, the substitution hypothesis, this idea that when you get rid
19:08
of, you know, something institutionally religious like Christianity, you just replace it with
19:12
something like, you know, the woke religious ideologies that he's currently invested in
19:16
fighting.
19:17
And so it would have been useful to, to have, to have sort of been more engaged in the fact
19:22
that there were other people like him noticing this and, and being able to sort of speak
19:27
into that.
19:28
And at the same time, yeah, at this point, I'm, I, it's interesting because because it's
19:34
a very much a snapshot of a cultural moment and the, you know, when I sent off the manuscript
19:39
to the publisher about a year ago, that was it, you know, it's going to be what it, what
19:44
it was.
19:45
You were inevitably going to have lots of then things happen that you would wish you could
19:48
have included and so on.
19:49
But that's, that's all you can do.
19:51
Having said that, it still feels like it's all pretty interesting and, you know, relevant.
19:57
One thing that did happen just recently, you, you're probably aware of this is, there's
20:02
been all this controversy around Russell Brand, yeah, the, the sexual, you know, abuse allegations
20:08
and everything else.
20:09
Well, I do mention Brand, not that I've interviewed him or anything, but I mentioned him as one
20:12
example of someone who's been kind of going on a spiritual journey.
20:16
He's very much left the hedonistic, you know, part of his life behind.
20:20
And he's, you know, and he's not certainly not, you know, a Christian at this point, but
20:24
he, he seems to be opening himself up to Christianity and spiritual issues.
20:28
Obviously that kind of small part of that chapter now looks a little bit like, Oh, okay.
20:33
And now he's kind of having all of these allegations, but again, that's, but what can
20:37
you do?
20:38
That's, you know, I was, I go on the information I have at the time, my, my hope and prayer
20:41
is that, that, that Russell Brand, you know, whatever you think of the allegations that
20:47
people will give him the grace to understand that people change over time.
20:52
And whatever he's been accused of, certainly as far as I can see, lives in the past that
20:58
he now deeply regrets at some level.
21:01
So, so anyway, that's those kinds of things happen and you just, you know, you just have
21:06
to accept them as they come.
21:07
Well, and also I don't know how it is in that country, but in this country, we still at
21:11
least purportedly have an assumption of innocence for people.
21:15
And you know, Russell Brand is another person to where it's like people get really, really
21:19
tribal about certain people. So like Donald Trump's the most extreme example.
21:23
There's nobody that's neutral in Donald Trump. He's either loved or loathed. That's basically
21:28
how it is. But same thing with Russell Brand. There were people that automatically are
21:31
like, well, those women are lying. And then there were people that are like, he obviously
21:34
did those things. And it's like, yeah, you'll have no idea. Can we just let this process
21:37
play out?
21:38
But I'm reminded of the process. So John Cooper, lead singer of skill, it's a good buddy of
21:42
mine. He was writing his new book, wimpy, weak and woke. And I remember him sending me
21:47
manuscripts as he was writing. And every time he thought the book was coming to a close,
21:52
a new big cultural thing happened. And he's like, I can't not put this in there because
21:57
it'll come out afterwards. But I guess the question I have in terms of how that goes,
22:02
you mentioned the woke stuff and people creating a religion out of that. I feel like it. And
22:07
I'm certainly not pointing something out that's unique here. I feel like the woke thing is
22:12
starting to really lose steam. So that this is coming out, you know, well after this,
22:17
but you had the presidents of MIT and Harvard and Penn go before Congress and absolutely
22:24
make just complete jerks of themselves by not being able to just say, yeah, if you call
22:29
for Intifada, if you call from the river to the sea for Palestine to be free, which basically
22:33
means we're going to kill millions of Jews, that that's not good. That obviously goes
22:36
against our code of conduct. And they just couldn't say it because they're so anti-Semitic.
22:41
And then also the trans thing with children, boys competing in girls sports, boys, males
22:48
hurting girls, like physically hurting them, breaking bones in their faces by spiking a
22:54
volleyball in their face or hitting them in the face with a field hockey ball or something
22:57
like that. I feel like the woke thing, people are, people kind of tutted it for a while
23:02
and they're like, okay, let's just be nice. Let's be known for what we're for and I will
23:05
work against now it's like, wait a minute. And now there's a bearded person that's going
23:09
against my daughter in basketball. This is unacceptable. Do you see it going that direction
23:14
as well?
23:15
I think I think there is a sense in which the progressive thing just does begin to eat
23:20
itself at some point. And you've increasingly, I think what I've noticed is people who would
23:26
have traditionally seen themselves as on the left liberal progressive end of things, even
23:32
they starting to realize, no, this thing's got out of hand. This has gone way too far.
23:37
And so that's so the interesting thing is, again, one of the things I've noticed again
23:41
since not having the opportunity to update the book any longer is so many comedians and
23:46
folk who are now effectively coming out and saying, no, there's got to be a limit to this
23:52
because we can no longer do comedy if these are the new rules about what's allowed and
23:57
what's not allowed. There are so many people who just want some common sense in this whole
24:02
thing who have realized that this has really gone off the rails. And that's very interesting
24:06
because it's even here in the UK, you know, the trans thing is, you know, it was obviously
24:11
been a really big hot button issue. And obviously, you know, JK Rowling has been quite a lightning
24:17
rod of controversy for that. But what I seem to have noticed is that whereas in the first
24:23
year or two after JK Rowling started to speak out on transgender ideology, there was like
24:28
a very big backlash against her, right?
24:30
I think you are now seeing a kind of much many, many more people feeling like they can
24:36
now basically stand next to her and say, come on, it's time for some sense in this
24:40
whole debate, isn't there? It's no longer, you no longer are quite tarred with the same
24:46
sense of being a social pariah if you stand up for JK Rowling. I think people are just
24:50
aware that hang on. Yeah, there's there's a there's a sense of equilibrium that needs
24:55
to be established in this debate. So I'm encouraged by that. I feel like the pendulum
24:59
is starting to swing back a little bit in the direction of a kind of sensible point.
25:04
And I think there's there's a when the comedians are bold, I think it points to actually some
25:11
kind of health within the kingdom, because this is obviously pending with a broad brush.
25:15
But when the gestures were starting to be killed in different royal courts, it pointed
25:21
to the fact that the, you know, the person in power was losing their grip, at least on
25:26
the kingdom, if not on reality entirely, if they they couldn't laugh at themselves. And
25:30
that's one of those things like just since I talk mainly to men on my audiences, if you're
25:34
working on a construction crew or you're on a you've joined a jujitsu gym or you've got
25:39
a softball league you play on. And if guys start, you know, making fun of you or giving
25:43
you crap or all that and you get really offended, if you get huffy and slam your lunchbox and
25:48
take off or something like that, you're not going to be trusted by those men. And so the
25:54
reason why men kind of do that to each other is to kind of learn boundaries and learn that
25:58
how this person has thick skin. If stuff starts to pop off, I can rely on this person. The
26:02
same thing is true about comedians. If they're in an environment like the UK, where if they
26:06
say a joke, they might be arrested, if they send a tweet, they might have to go to prison,
26:11
then it's one of those things where it's like, you can't really tell whether or not you have
26:16
the government has your back if we're all doing this together, it feels more like a total totalitarian,
26:21
you know, top down enforcement of a particular ideology, if that makes sense. Let's talk
26:27
about the podcast. So obviously you're no longer doing unbelievable with Justin Briarley. So
26:32
I no longer have to type unbelievable question mark and then not capitalize the next word
26:36
in my sentence. So I don't have to do that anymore. What's the new podcast called? Why
26:41
did you launch it? Why is this set up the way that it is?
26:44
So the new podcast is the surprising rebirth of belief in God. So exactly the same title
26:49
as the book, but really it's a deep dive into the contents of the book, the story of the
26:54
rise and fall of new atheism, but also the rise of this new conversation on God with
26:59
public intellectuals like Jordan Peterson, Douglas Murray, Tom Holland, I and Herse Ali.
27:04
So and then the neat thing is, as I said, is that I can start to include some of these
27:08
very recent stories that have been coming to attention. So we kind of tech basically,
27:12
it's very simple because I've taken each chapter, seven chapters of the book and I'm
27:16
devoting three of these episodes to each chapter. So about 21 episodes plus some bonus episodes
27:21
makes it a kind of a narrative arc of about 30 episodes for this podcast. And it's done
27:27
in a very sort of in-depth documentary style approach. So if you've ever listened to something
27:34
like the rise and fall of Miles Hill podcast, different content, but similar style in terms
27:39
of a more of a documentary polished style, the witch trials of JK Rowling, that kind
27:44
of feel. It's a lot more labor intensive, but I'm really enjoying the creative process
27:48
because we get to use music, we get to sculpt a bit of a dynamic sense of what's going on.
27:56
And I've just had overwhelmingly positive feedback since we launched it about a month
28:00
and a half ago. We're about seven or eight episodes in now. And yeah, I'm just really
28:04
enjoying being able to sort of do something very different to those kind of conversational
28:09
type podcasts that I've done for many years now, going really back to my roots actually
28:14
where I began in radio creating features and documentaries and so on. So I'm really enjoying
28:18
that. And you can, yeah, you can go and listen. It's available on all major podcast platforms.
28:23
And if you want to support the podcast is obviously takes time and money and resource
28:27
to create these kinds of resources, then people can do that as well guys make sure that you
28:31
watch that and listen to that that'll be in the show notes. But Justin, that's like 30
28:37
episodes. And then that'll be in your past. And that'll just be something that you did.
28:41
What's the next thing? Are you going to be coming back to the heated debates between
28:46
smart people and dumb people? Like, what's the next thing? Is it another book? Is it
28:50
a series of books? What are we doing here? There's a lot. There's a lot potentially
28:55
yeah going on. I mean, I should say first of all that I, you know, given that we're already
29:00
seeing a really big audience coming up behind this new podcast, we're not intending to simply
29:04
cut it off at the 30 once we've told the story. I think there's going to be lots more stories
29:08
to tell of the surprising rebirth of belief in God. So so that'll be an ongoing project.
29:12
But yes, there are other things that we're hoping to do. I began a new company this last
29:17
year think faith where we're going to be starting to produce more podcast videos. You're going
29:21
to see a lot more, yeah, going out in terms of video stuff as well. And yes, I do plan
29:27
to return to what I'm probably best known for, which is sitting in the middle of interesting
29:31
debates and discussions. So look out for something along those lines in the coming year. I don't
29:37
have an exact timeline for that yet. But it's, it's, it's something that I've missed doing.
29:41
I'd love to get back into doing it. I'm sure I will return to doing in the not too distant
29:45
future. So look out for that. You need to get into it again, because when I would listen
29:50
to unbelievable podcast, one of my favorite things to do would be like, which person does
29:54
Justin like better? And I would like try to figure it out based on the questions and based
29:58
on how many times you would interrupt the person. And I felt like I got pretty good at
30:02
it. I should have just been sending you emails like, ah, you like this person. You like that
30:06
person. So if we could come back to that, that would be great. But my last request that I
30:09
have for you before we let you go and get on with your Christmas plans and all that is
30:13
the copy of the book that I have is still the arc copy. Look at this thing. Man, it's
30:18
still got a nice version. You need to get the fully nice, you know, properly printed and
30:23
bound version. I'll get you one, Kyle. I'll send you one. Okay. And I want you to write
30:27
me a really sweet note on the inside saying how I'm your favorite ginger and you don't
30:32
really hate Ireland as much as it seems like those types of things. Yeah, I will. Absolutely.
30:37
I'll write a very special message just for you, Kyle, and delighted to do so. Well, very
30:42
good. Well, all kidding aside, the surprising rebirth of belief in God, it is our 2023 book
30:47
of the year. I thought it was just absolutely fantastic. It's high quality like everything
30:51
you do. But before I let you go, is there anything else you want to get off your chest?
30:54
Well, if you want to get hold of the book, you can actually get assigned copy yourself.
30:59
We we're making those available through my own website, Justinbriley.com. So you can
31:04
do that and you can sign up to the newsletter, keep a breast of all that we're doing. You
31:08
can get hold of the podcast there as well, of course, and support these new initiatives
31:12
that I'm trying to launch in the coming year. But thank you just for the amazing support
31:16
you've given, Kyle. I've been absolutely delighted to see your own show, Flourish, and the way
31:20
in which you want to encourage others as well along the way. So bless you. Very good. All
31:24
right. Until next time, we'll see you then. Yeah, God bless. Have a happy Christmas and
31:29
a great new year.
31:30
You too.
31:31
Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode. Wherever you're listening to this,
31:34
please subscribe, rate, and leave us a positive five star review. If you want to come speak
31:38
alive at your event or on your podcast to shoot me an email to info@undonton.life. That's
31:43
I N F O at undonton.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our
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website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming
31:51
your way. Just go to www dot undaunted dot life. And also we want to thank the band Holy Name
31:57
for allowing us to use their music for our content. The music on this podcast is our
32:00
song Perpetua, which is off their self titled debut album on Face Down Records. The links
32:05
are in the description. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness,
32:11
keep forging spiritual mental and physical resilience. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
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