← All episodes

JUSTIN BRIERLEY | The Surprising Rebirth of Belief in God, Revisited (Ep. 543)

December 21, 2023 32m 50s Full transcript available
JUSTIN BRIERLEY | The Surprising Rebirth of Belief in God, Revisited (Ep. 543)
0:00 / 32m 50s
In this episode, Kyle Thompson welcomes back Justin Briarley to discuss his book, 'The Surprising Rebirth of Belief in God,' which has been named Undaunted Life's Book of the Year. They dive into the cultural shifts surrounding belief in God, the impact of new atheism, and the importance of embracing new converts to Christianity, regardless of their past.
Transcript
528 segments
0:00 You focus on your physical and mental health, but when's the last time you checked in on
0:04 your financial health?
0:06 Many Americans feel financially anxious, yet many are doing better than they think.
0:10 At Fairwind's Credit Union, we give you a clear snapshot of your finances and a plan
0:15 to move forward with confidence.
0:17 With high-yield savings and free checking, we help your money work harder.
0:21 Visit fairwinds.org for more information, federally insured by NCUA.
0:28 LinkedIn is pretty amazing at helping you grow your small business.
0:32 We cannot stop your new clients from emailing you at 3am.
0:37 We can help you sell, market, and hire in one place.
0:41 We cannot help you be in three places at once.
0:45 And while we can't help you organize your calendar, LinkedIn can help you land more clients
0:50 so you have a calendar to organize.
0:53 Grow your small business on LinkedIn.
0:55 Learn more at linkedin.com/smallbusiness.
0:58 [MUSIC]
1:18 This is Undaunted Life Man's Podcast.
1:21 I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
1:23 Let's get into it.
1:24 All right, guys.
1:25 We've got a special return guest on the podcast, and you know exactly who it is.
1:28 If you were watching and listening to the previous episode when I was going over the
1:32 best books of 2023, because I told you we had a surprise interview, and the surprise
1:36 interview is with the one and only Justin Briarley, because I have given his book that he released
1:41 this year, The Surprising Rebirth of Belief in God, the title, the vaunted title of the
1:46 2023 book of the year, at least according to Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
1:50 And so he's been on this podcast, I think, three other times before, so you can go back
1:54 and listen to all those other interviews.
1:56 But in this interview, we just talk about the release of the book, the things that he's
1:59 seen, the kind of the fruit that he's seen from this book since it's released.
2:03 Some of the things that he wished he would have put in there, but just the timing didn't
2:06 quite work out.
2:07 But man, we went all over the place in this conversation talking about his current project,
2:10 projects he has coming up.
2:12 It's a great, short interview.
2:13 We just kind of snuck it in, and if you're wondering why it looks like I was recording
2:17 in the middle of the night, if you're watching it on video, it's because I was recording
2:20 it basically in the middle of the night, because to get it to where it worked with his schedule
2:23 in the UK, I had to wake up real early here to kind of pull this all up.
2:26 But we got it squared away because I wanted to make sure that we had a quick little interview,
2:30 a little bonus thing for you guys.
2:32 So tell me, thank you, right?
2:33 I gave you guys a little late Christmas present.
2:35 So you're welcome.
2:36 But guys, without further ado, let's get into it.
2:39 Hey, Justin, Bradley, welcome back to Undaunted Life, a man's podcast, but you were my first
2:43 surprise interview to ever happen because if you, if you listened to my entire episode
2:49 about the best books of 2023, I surprise the audience with a surprise interview.
2:52 And it's you.
2:54 Have fun.
2:55 Wow.
2:56 That is really cool.
2:57 And I feel honored.
2:58 Thank you, Kyle.
2:59 What an honor.
3:00 Well, I will tell you, Justin, I know you've gotten a lot of plaudits and I know you've
3:02 gotten a lot of praise over your career, but just first real question.
3:07 What does it feel like to literally get the highest honor that you've ever gotten in your
3:11 entire career, which is the vaunted best book of the year by Undaunted Life, a man's podcast?
3:16 I thought all of those on our honors and plaudits would somehow fulfill me.
3:21 They never did, only this has truly fulfilled my life, Kyle.
3:24 So I, what can I say?
3:26 Well, and the thing was, you would think that I plan that because I like you so much, but
3:31 I didn't, I didn't plan it in, in just in all honesty and I told you this off air, I,
3:37 I feel no need to give somebody praise if they don't deserve it.
3:41 Like I just don't have it in my personality.
3:43 Like if somebody sucks, I'll probably more likely tell them they suck than to tell them
3:47 that they're just, yo, yeah, you're, you're perfect, you're a perfect little snowflake,
3:50 but the surprising were rebirth, a belief in God.
3:54 I don't want to, it may sound offensive for me to say that I was surprised, but I wasn't
3:57 expecting this based off of some of the other stuff that, that I've read of yours and it
4:02 wasn't because the stuff that I've read of yours wasn't good.
4:05 It was obviously the opposite of that, but it was just because the arguments that were
4:08 made, how forceful it was from the beginning because I, I, maybe I've been little to sleep
4:13 just and there's a lot of books that are punchy towards the big, the middle and the
4:17 end.
4:18 Yours was punchy from the beginning.
4:19 Was that part of the plan?
4:21 Well, I, all I can say is it was the book I had inside me and the, and you know, that,
4:27 that first chapter, I just knew that there was this story to tell about the changing
4:32 conversation on God about the way that the new atheism had risen and fallen.
4:37 And yeah, it just sort of seemed to flow.
4:39 So all joking aside, I am genuinely honored that you, you chose this book as your, your
4:44 book of the year car.
4:45 So, so thank you very much.
4:46 Well, and as everybody saw on the list before, there were some monsters that were on the
4:50 list before I got to number one, but it's one of those things like whenever I sat down
4:54 because I, as I finish a book, I'll put a note on my phone that I finished that book.
4:58 But if ones that, if there's one that I know by the end of the year will probably be in
5:02 my top five, top 10, I, I just will, you know, bold it, but then I don't think about it again.
5:07 So I go back to the list and then I start evaluating.
5:10 And this year, I mean, like the top five, I was like, how in the world, the difference
5:14 between five and four, I felt like I was splitting hairs.
5:17 But honestly, the way that the cookie crumbled was me going back to our old interview and
5:23 me just, we spent so much time just on the first chapter.
5:26 And so I guess from a, a writing standpoint, since I'm not an author, a published author
5:31 myself, was there any concern from you or the editor or anyone like that by putting
5:37 so much dense material on that first chapter?
5:41 Did people think, ah, this might turn people off or you need to, you know, get people to
5:46 read a few chapters to get a little bit of momentum or anything like that.
5:49 Was any of that part of the consideration?
5:52 I remember.
5:53 So it's interesting.
5:54 You focus on the first chapter because I wrote the first chapter kind of as a, almost
5:59 as a pitch for the book to some publishers a couple of years ago now, when I was first
6:03 and, and it got a lot of interest actually, um, and people felt this was an exciting story.
6:09 The question was whether the momentum could in a sense, yeah, could be continued through
6:13 the remaining chapters because the first chapter does tell a very specific unique story about
6:16 this rise of this movement of new atheism and how it kind of all internally collapsed for
6:21 all of these kinds of reasons to do with the growing culture wars and everything else.
6:25 But I felt there was actually a really interesting story to be told about what happened in the
6:29 wake of that collapse and I, and I hope you know that I did do a good job of actually showing
6:32 the way in which this conversation has now emerged, uh, you know, out of that whole scenario.
6:38 So it was, yeah, it was definitely what one of those things where I felt like I had a really
6:42 strong start to the book, whether it could be continued was the next question.
6:46 But yeah, I'm, I'm glad to say that, that it seems to have done that.
6:49 And, uh, happily, Kyle, you're not the only platform to have recognized the book.
6:54 Um, it actually did, uh, did make the finalist list for the Christianity Today's book awards
6:59 as well in the apologetics and evangelism category.
7:01 Yeah, we don't care about them.
7:03 No, no, no.
7:04 Reads them anymore.
7:05 Absolutely.
7:06 Yeah.
7:07 I was going to say, I mean, Christianity, who I mean, come on.
7:09 This isn't the 1950s when Billy Graham was running it.
7:12 Okay.
7:13 This is, this is the now time and nobody likes anybody over there anymore.
7:16 Well, just, let's just talk to, let's just start generically, uh, what interesting things
7:21 have you seen this year since the book has been released?
7:24 What's some interesting feedback that you've gotten?
7:26 Like, how do you feel about how the book has done in terms of its impact so far?
7:30 Yeah.
7:31 But I've just been delighted with the feedback I've had, um, so many people coming out of
7:37 the blue to tell me that they've read the book, they've enjoyed the book, um, lots of
7:41 people across different sort of spectrums, if you like, not just Christians, but non-Christians
7:47 who have been reading it.
7:48 I've had dozens of emails from people who said, I basically been on the journey you described
7:53 in this book, Justin.
7:54 I was basically a new atheist a few years ago and I've come around and that sometimes
7:59 they're people who are kind of still exploring, whether Christianity is true or people have
8:03 gone all the way.
8:04 Um, so that's been really interesting.
8:06 The other kind of really exciting thing actually is seeing the book kind of playing out in
8:10 real time, this or much.
8:13 So I'm sure you may have heard of this story of Iann Hersey Ali, who was this ex Muslim,
8:18 Somali born, um, speaker and thinker, who was very much in the mid 2000s, part of the
8:24 new atheist set, uh, who shared stages with Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins and others.
8:29 And then just last month in November, writes this viral article for Unheard titled Why
8:35 I Am Now A Christian and essentially spells out more or less the thesis of much of the
8:39 book of the reasons why she has embraced Christianity.
8:42 Now that provoked all kinds of interesting responses from both skeptics and Christians.
8:46 Well, is this a real conversion?
8:48 Because it was a lot of kind of civilizational cultural kind of issues she was dealing with.
8:52 So you go on and read more of the article and some of her other interviews.
8:56 You see, there's obviously a spiritual pull towards Christianity going on as well.
9:00 So it's, it's obviously not the end of her story, but so interesting to see what I describe
9:05 in the book happening then in that very specific, quite high profile instance and, and, and
9:10 being able to then kind of tell those stories, um, in real time, because I've now launched
9:15 the podcast that goes with the book.
9:17 So we were able to kind of pick up some of that current stuff going on.
9:20 So yeah, it's, it's been a really, really exciting and yeah, very gratifying to see that all
9:24 happening.
9:25 When I want to make sure that we talk about the podcast, the new podcast where we get
9:28 out of here, but, um, you know, I on her, she Ali, but obviously there was another one
9:32 Kat Von D. So I don't know how big she is over in the UK, but in America, like she's
9:36 very popular.
9:37 She had a very popular show has, you know, millions of Twitter followers and Instagram
9:41 followers and all that.
9:42 And then all of a sudden comes out with that beautifully produced video of her getting
9:46 baptized, and I just remember, and I don't know if this is just my personal sin, cynicism
9:51 or pessimism.
9:52 My first thought was, is she about to launch like a new clothing line?
9:56 Like, is this like it's going to have a bunch of black crosses on it or something like that.
10:01 But then you hear her interview with Ali best Stucky.
10:03 You hear some of the other stuff she's done.
10:06 And I was just, I was so moved for whatever reason, like I'm even getting a little bit
10:11 emotional thinking about it now because you can tell she means it, but she's, she's like
10:16 a baby deer right now.
10:18 Yeah.
10:19 And so immediately the heresy hunter people were all after for not using the right language
10:23 or saying that she chose Jesus because obviously Jesus chose you because I'm a Calvinist and
10:28 I'm right.
10:29 But it's like, I think that we're going to have so many more opportunities as Christians,
10:34 Justin, to embrace these people that have big profiles and say, Hey, our tents real big.
10:40 Like, you know, you happen to have more Instagram followers than me, but you were just as lost
10:43 as grandma was.
10:44 Yeah.
10:45 Before the end of this.
10:46 Do you feel like we're going to see more of this kind of, you know, celebrity-ish type
10:50 thing coming?
10:51 Yeah.
10:52 And I hope obviously it's great in a sense when it is the well-known people that I and
10:57 her Cialis, Kat Von D and so on, those kind of who already have a platform and a celebrity
11:02 to status because it helps us to feel like, Hey, there's something significant going on.
11:06 But at the same time, I have that concern that a we don't want to put them on suddenly
11:11 on some pedestal.
11:12 They are, as you say, just at the very beginning of their journey.
11:15 And I do get really, yeah, I get a similarly annoyed when Christians steam in saying,
11:21 you didn't get this right.
11:22 You didn't use the right language.
11:23 It's like, come on, give them a chance to even get established.
11:26 I mean, when you were first became a Christian, did you have everything sorted out in your
11:30 mind?
11:31 Of course you didn't.
11:32 And likewise, I think it's just a case of actually understanding that this is all God's
11:38 grace.
11:39 Okay.
11:40 That's the faith for all kinds of motives that never pure.
11:43 None of us become Christians for all the right reasons.
11:45 Okay.
11:46 But that's okay because that's where the way God works in his grace.
11:48 And so let's just give them the space to have the journey they need to go on.
11:53 And let's just rejoice in the fact that people are finding Christ in these sorts of ways.
11:58 Now we can then talk about, you know, the bigger picture and the social situations and,
12:02 you know, the cultural movements that are happening.
12:04 And that's what I'm doing through the book and the podcast.
12:07 And I don't want us to sort of just jump on these stories and immediately start to tear
12:11 into them.
12:12 I think that we can, we can celebrate them.
12:14 We can give them some space to be who they are and to go on that journey.
12:18 When I think there's another somewhat nefarious undercurrent that happens with things like
12:21 this, Justin, it's that some people want really cool people on their team.
12:26 So in America, when Kanye West started wearing the MAGA hat and going and hanging out with
12:32 Donald Trump and saying he was a Republican and all that type of stuff, people that otherwise
12:36 would have hated Kanye West just because of the kind of music he makes and some of the
12:40 ways that he's treated women and things that he's, you know, wrapped about or whatever.
12:44 They were all said like, Oh, we got a cool guy on our team.
12:47 He's got like, you know, 30 million followers on Instagram and now he's on our team.
12:51 And then it's like, you know, as Ben Shapiro said, you live by the Kanye, die by the Kanye.
12:54 And then so that, that plane crashed and burned pretty heavily.
12:58 But I, I get concerned when Christians are so invested in Jordan Peterson coming to Christ
13:06 or Joe Rogan coming to Christ or pick a famous person coming to Christ where it's like, guys,
13:12 your neighbor is lost.
13:14 Your neighbor actually, you can have an impact on that person's life and share the gospel
13:18 with them.
13:19 And you're worried about a podcaster or a famous author.
13:22 Talk to me a little bit about that because I get concerned that Christians are focusing
13:24 on that.
13:25 Yeah.
13:26 I totally agree.
13:27 And I think the big mistake is for us as Christians or as a church to hitch our bandwagon
13:32 to any individual or any celebrity, that's always going to be a route to disappointment
13:36 because they are human, you know, and they will fall off those pedestals.
13:39 I really appreciate Jordan Peterson and a lot of his wisdom and the questions he's asking,
13:44 but he doesn't have all the right answers.
13:46 Of course he doesn't.
13:47 And, and yeah, he may, maybe he will eventually find his way into orthodox Christianity.
13:52 That would be wonderful.
13:53 But I'm still not going to be treating him as some kind of messiah figure, a spiritual
13:56 leader.
13:57 I think he's, he's an important voice and it's important to see that.
14:01 What I really appreciate though is that he's actually, I'm not so concerned about actually
14:05 where he ends up himself, because I think, you know, none of us will really in the end
14:10 know the heart of Jordan Peterson.
14:12 We can leave that stuff to God, but what I am interested in is he seems to be opening
14:16 up the door to other people, especially not a young men to take Christianity seriously.
14:21 And I know many people who have walked through that door to, you know, vibrant, committed
14:25 Christian faith.
14:26 And so to that extent, you know, that's what I want to celebrate.
14:29 If you like, not Peterson per se, and his wherever he is on that journey, but the fact
14:34 that people are finding God because he opened a door for them, you know, hey guys, real
14:39 quick.
14:40 I've talked about this on the show before, but I've been experimenting with the idea of
14:42 getting on the carnivore diet.
14:44 And so I've got a good buddy, Chad Robocho, who's been on the podcast that he's been
14:47 on the carnivore diet for a while.
14:48 He's seen a lot of great success.
14:50 But the big thing that I've been worrying about is like, where do I get high quality
14:53 beef?
14:54 Like where exactly can I get beef where I can trust that's coming from reputable source
14:58 that it doesn't have a bunch of junk that's been in it.
15:00 And I've been looking for a cattle operation partner to really partner up with.
15:04 And that's why I want to introduce you to the new official beef delivery partner of Undaunted
15:10 Life.
15:11 And that's my friends at Primal Beef.
15:13 So Primal Beef is a brand new cattle operation owned and operated by Sean Glass.
15:18 So he is a retired Navy SEAL that served with Jocko Willing and Jocko is also a partner
15:22 in Primal Beef.
15:23 But what makes Primal Beef different from the other fly by night beef delivery companies?
15:28 It's a combination of the following.
15:30 So it's all American black Angus cattle.
15:33 The beef comes from one farm and that's in Virginia, Shenandoah Valley.
15:37 Also the beef is all natural.
15:39 There are no hormones added ever, no antibiotics ever, no MRNA ever, and here's a cool thing.
15:45 After slaughter, the beef is dry aged and then it's hand cut by artisan butchers and
15:50 then flash frozen to ensure that it maintains the tenderness and marbling and flavor that
15:54 you'll want by the time it gets to you.
15:56 And here's another cool thing.
15:57 For every box sold, guys, Primal Beef donates meat directly to a member of America's Special
16:03 Operations Forces through the C4 Foundation.
16:06 So you can take pride in knowing that your purchase will help literally put food on the
16:10 table for one of America's finest warriors.
16:12 So are you salivating yet?
16:14 Because if not, you should be guys, try Primal Beef out today by going to www.primalbeef.com.
16:22 That will be in the show notes.
16:23 That's primalbeef.com.
16:25 Use the promo code Kyle.
16:27 That's my first name, KYLE Kyle for 10% off of your order.
16:31 Again, that is primalbeef.com.
16:33 Use the code Kyle KYLE to get 10% off of your order.
16:37 When he's become a pseudo spiritual father and I don't mean that in a negative way because
16:41 some people would say that in a negative way.
16:43 So just in one aspect, Justin, that he has given people license to take the scriptures
16:50 seriously, because he himself takes them so seriously.
16:54 Regardless of whether or not he thinks they're mytho history, like what William Lane Craig
16:58 might say or some sort of thing like that, he takes them so seriously, a 25 year old skeptic
17:05 who was marinated in the government schools and then went to a university and was further
17:10 marinated in that ideology is all of a sudden like, wait a minute, maybe this isn't just
17:14 a book of miss.
17:15 Maybe this isn't just a book that's changed a million times over the last couple of thousand
17:20 years.
17:21 Maybe this is something I should actually reckon with and then they go to God's Word and God
17:24 speaks to them.
17:25 I think that's a very important thing to think about as well.
17:28 Now, Justin, I'm the type of person that I'm my biggest critic.
17:33 So if I put out a podcast, if I write a devotional, if I write a sentence via text and then I go
17:37 back and read and go, Oh God, you're so dumb.
17:41 Like, what, what were you thinking?
17:43 And so that's just how I am now I'm well over 500 podcasts and now.
17:46 And so I've had to kind of chill out just a little bit, like give myself some grace and
17:50 really love myself and all that nonsense.
17:53 But for you, I'm sure that there are things that you wish you could have put in the book
17:57 or wish that you did put in the book or you're like, Oh my gosh, I should have argued this
18:00 and I just left it out entirely.
18:02 Give me the backstory.
18:03 What are some of those things you wish were in the book?
18:06 Oh, yeah, there's, there's so many things that you do come to afterwards and realize,
18:10 Hey, that, that would have made so much sense to, to have included.
18:13 I mean, I mean, in a, in a funny way, you know, had I known about Diane Herciali's kind
18:17 of the movement she was going in, that, that would have been just been a perfect story to,
18:21 to include in the book.
18:22 It's just so perfectly encapsulates the kind of movement that I'm talking about.
18:25 So, so I feel like, Hey, I should have at least given her a mention, you know, the book,
18:30 maybe second edition that will come around.
18:32 I think the other, the other aspect, I think my thoughts are just crystallized a lot on,
18:37 on certain issues.
18:39 And so for instance, I, I really get the sense now that I only discovered after I'd kind
18:46 of, yeah, sent off the manuscript that the, for instance, some new atheist authors think
18:51 is like Peter Bogosian, we're already talking in very similar terms to the way I talk in
18:55 the book about the idea that we're all inherently religious and we will make a religion out
18:59 of something if it's not Christianity and, and it turned out Peter Bogosian had already
19:03 kind of given this a name, the substitution hypothesis, this idea that when you get rid
19:08 of, you know, something institutionally religious like Christianity, you just replace it with
19:12 something like, you know, the woke religious ideologies that he's currently invested in
19:16 fighting.
19:17 And so it would have been useful to, to have, to have sort of been more engaged in the fact
19:22 that there were other people like him noticing this and, and being able to sort of speak
19:27 into that.
19:28 And at the same time, yeah, at this point, I'm, I, it's interesting because because it's
19:34 a very much a snapshot of a cultural moment and the, you know, when I sent off the manuscript
19:39 to the publisher about a year ago, that was it, you know, it's going to be what it, what
19:44 it was.
19:45 You were inevitably going to have lots of then things happen that you would wish you could
19:48 have included and so on.
19:49 But that's, that's all you can do.
19:51 Having said that, it still feels like it's all pretty interesting and, you know, relevant.
19:57 One thing that did happen just recently, you, you're probably aware of this is, there's
20:02 been all this controversy around Russell Brand, yeah, the, the sexual, you know, abuse allegations
20:08 and everything else.
20:09 Well, I do mention Brand, not that I've interviewed him or anything, but I mentioned him as one
20:12 example of someone who's been kind of going on a spiritual journey.
20:16 He's very much left the hedonistic, you know, part of his life behind.
20:20 And he's, you know, and he's not certainly not, you know, a Christian at this point, but
20:24 he, he seems to be opening himself up to Christianity and spiritual issues.
20:28 Obviously that kind of small part of that chapter now looks a little bit like, Oh, okay.
20:33 And now he's kind of having all of these allegations, but again, that's, but what can
20:37 you do?
20:38 That's, you know, I was, I go on the information I have at the time, my, my hope and prayer
20:41 is that, that, that Russell Brand, you know, whatever you think of the allegations that
20:47 people will give him the grace to understand that people change over time.
20:52 And whatever he's been accused of, certainly as far as I can see, lives in the past that
20:58 he now deeply regrets at some level.
21:01 So, so anyway, that's those kinds of things happen and you just, you know, you just have
21:06 to accept them as they come.
21:07 Well, and also I don't know how it is in that country, but in this country, we still at
21:11 least purportedly have an assumption of innocence for people.
21:15 And you know, Russell Brand is another person to where it's like people get really, really
21:19 tribal about certain people. So like Donald Trump's the most extreme example.
21:23 There's nobody that's neutral in Donald Trump. He's either loved or loathed. That's basically
21:28 how it is. But same thing with Russell Brand. There were people that automatically are
21:31 like, well, those women are lying. And then there were people that are like, he obviously
21:34 did those things. And it's like, yeah, you'll have no idea. Can we just let this process
21:37 play out?
21:38 But I'm reminded of the process. So John Cooper, lead singer of skill, it's a good buddy of
21:42 mine. He was writing his new book, wimpy, weak and woke. And I remember him sending me
21:47 manuscripts as he was writing. And every time he thought the book was coming to a close,
21:52 a new big cultural thing happened. And he's like, I can't not put this in there because
21:57 it'll come out afterwards. But I guess the question I have in terms of how that goes,
22:02 you mentioned the woke stuff and people creating a religion out of that. I feel like it. And
22:07 I'm certainly not pointing something out that's unique here. I feel like the woke thing is
22:12 starting to really lose steam. So that this is coming out, you know, well after this,
22:17 but you had the presidents of MIT and Harvard and Penn go before Congress and absolutely
22:24 make just complete jerks of themselves by not being able to just say, yeah, if you call
22:29 for Intifada, if you call from the river to the sea for Palestine to be free, which basically
22:33 means we're going to kill millions of Jews, that that's not good. That obviously goes
22:36 against our code of conduct. And they just couldn't say it because they're so anti-Semitic.
22:41 And then also the trans thing with children, boys competing in girls sports, boys, males
22:48 hurting girls, like physically hurting them, breaking bones in their faces by spiking a
22:54 volleyball in their face or hitting them in the face with a field hockey ball or something
22:57 like that. I feel like the woke thing, people are, people kind of tutted it for a while
23:02 and they're like, okay, let's just be nice. Let's be known for what we're for and I will
23:05 work against now it's like, wait a minute. And now there's a bearded person that's going
23:09 against my daughter in basketball. This is unacceptable. Do you see it going that direction
23:14 as well?
23:15 I think I think there is a sense in which the progressive thing just does begin to eat
23:20 itself at some point. And you've increasingly, I think what I've noticed is people who would
23:26 have traditionally seen themselves as on the left liberal progressive end of things, even
23:32 they starting to realize, no, this thing's got out of hand. This has gone way too far.
23:37 And so that's so the interesting thing is, again, one of the things I've noticed again
23:41 since not having the opportunity to update the book any longer is so many comedians and
23:46 folk who are now effectively coming out and saying, no, there's got to be a limit to this
23:52 because we can no longer do comedy if these are the new rules about what's allowed and
23:57 what's not allowed. There are so many people who just want some common sense in this whole
24:02 thing who have realized that this has really gone off the rails. And that's very interesting
24:06 because it's even here in the UK, you know, the trans thing is, you know, it was obviously
24:11 been a really big hot button issue. And obviously, you know, JK Rowling has been quite a lightning
24:17 rod of controversy for that. But what I seem to have noticed is that whereas in the first
24:23 year or two after JK Rowling started to speak out on transgender ideology, there was like
24:28 a very big backlash against her, right?
24:30 I think you are now seeing a kind of much many, many more people feeling like they can
24:36 now basically stand next to her and say, come on, it's time for some sense in this
24:40 whole debate, isn't there? It's no longer, you no longer are quite tarred with the same
24:46 sense of being a social pariah if you stand up for JK Rowling. I think people are just
24:50 aware that hang on. Yeah, there's there's a there's a sense of equilibrium that needs
24:55 to be established in this debate. So I'm encouraged by that. I feel like the pendulum
24:59 is starting to swing back a little bit in the direction of a kind of sensible point.
25:04 And I think there's there's a when the comedians are bold, I think it points to actually some
25:11 kind of health within the kingdom, because this is obviously pending with a broad brush.
25:15 But when the gestures were starting to be killed in different royal courts, it pointed
25:21 to the fact that the, you know, the person in power was losing their grip, at least on
25:26 the kingdom, if not on reality entirely, if they they couldn't laugh at themselves. And
25:30 that's one of those things like just since I talk mainly to men on my audiences, if you're
25:34 working on a construction crew or you're on a you've joined a jujitsu gym or you've got
25:39 a softball league you play on. And if guys start, you know, making fun of you or giving
25:43 you crap or all that and you get really offended, if you get huffy and slam your lunchbox and
25:48 take off or something like that, you're not going to be trusted by those men. And so the
25:54 reason why men kind of do that to each other is to kind of learn boundaries and learn that
25:58 how this person has thick skin. If stuff starts to pop off, I can rely on this person. The
26:02 same thing is true about comedians. If they're in an environment like the UK, where if they
26:06 say a joke, they might be arrested, if they send a tweet, they might have to go to prison,
26:11 then it's one of those things where it's like, you can't really tell whether or not you have
26:16 the government has your back if we're all doing this together, it feels more like a total totalitarian,
26:21 you know, top down enforcement of a particular ideology, if that makes sense. Let's talk
26:27 about the podcast. So obviously you're no longer doing unbelievable with Justin Briarley. So
26:32 I no longer have to type unbelievable question mark and then not capitalize the next word
26:36 in my sentence. So I don't have to do that anymore. What's the new podcast called? Why
26:41 did you launch it? Why is this set up the way that it is?
26:44 So the new podcast is the surprising rebirth of belief in God. So exactly the same title
26:49 as the book, but really it's a deep dive into the contents of the book, the story of the
26:54 rise and fall of new atheism, but also the rise of this new conversation on God with
26:59 public intellectuals like Jordan Peterson, Douglas Murray, Tom Holland, I and Herse Ali.
27:04 So and then the neat thing is, as I said, is that I can start to include some of these
27:08 very recent stories that have been coming to attention. So we kind of tech basically,
27:12 it's very simple because I've taken each chapter, seven chapters of the book and I'm
27:16 devoting three of these episodes to each chapter. So about 21 episodes plus some bonus episodes
27:21 makes it a kind of a narrative arc of about 30 episodes for this podcast. And it's done
27:27 in a very sort of in-depth documentary style approach. So if you've ever listened to something
27:34 like the rise and fall of Miles Hill podcast, different content, but similar style in terms
27:39 of a more of a documentary polished style, the witch trials of JK Rowling, that kind
27:44 of feel. It's a lot more labor intensive, but I'm really enjoying the creative process
27:48 because we get to use music, we get to sculpt a bit of a dynamic sense of what's going on.
27:56 And I've just had overwhelmingly positive feedback since we launched it about a month
28:00 and a half ago. We're about seven or eight episodes in now. And yeah, I'm just really
28:04 enjoying being able to sort of do something very different to those kind of conversational
28:09 type podcasts that I've done for many years now, going really back to my roots actually
28:14 where I began in radio creating features and documentaries and so on. So I'm really enjoying
28:18 that. And you can, yeah, you can go and listen. It's available on all major podcast platforms.
28:23 And if you want to support the podcast is obviously takes time and money and resource
28:27 to create these kinds of resources, then people can do that as well guys make sure that you
28:31 watch that and listen to that that'll be in the show notes. But Justin, that's like 30
28:37 episodes. And then that'll be in your past. And that'll just be something that you did.
28:41 What's the next thing? Are you going to be coming back to the heated debates between
28:46 smart people and dumb people? Like, what's the next thing? Is it another book? Is it
28:50 a series of books? What are we doing here? There's a lot. There's a lot potentially
28:55 yeah going on. I mean, I should say first of all that I, you know, given that we're already
29:00 seeing a really big audience coming up behind this new podcast, we're not intending to simply
29:04 cut it off at the 30 once we've told the story. I think there's going to be lots more stories
29:08 to tell of the surprising rebirth of belief in God. So so that'll be an ongoing project.
29:12 But yes, there are other things that we're hoping to do. I began a new company this last
29:17 year think faith where we're going to be starting to produce more podcast videos. You're going
29:21 to see a lot more, yeah, going out in terms of video stuff as well. And yes, I do plan
29:27 to return to what I'm probably best known for, which is sitting in the middle of interesting
29:31 debates and discussions. So look out for something along those lines in the coming year. I don't
29:37 have an exact timeline for that yet. But it's, it's, it's something that I've missed doing.
29:41 I'd love to get back into doing it. I'm sure I will return to doing in the not too distant
29:45 future. So look out for that. You need to get into it again, because when I would listen
29:50 to unbelievable podcast, one of my favorite things to do would be like, which person does
29:54 Justin like better? And I would like try to figure it out based on the questions and based
29:58 on how many times you would interrupt the person. And I felt like I got pretty good at
30:02 it. I should have just been sending you emails like, ah, you like this person. You like that
30:06 person. So if we could come back to that, that would be great. But my last request that I
30:09 have for you before we let you go and get on with your Christmas plans and all that is
30:13 the copy of the book that I have is still the arc copy. Look at this thing. Man, it's
30:18 still got a nice version. You need to get the fully nice, you know, properly printed and
30:23 bound version. I'll get you one, Kyle. I'll send you one. Okay. And I want you to write
30:27 me a really sweet note on the inside saying how I'm your favorite ginger and you don't
30:32 really hate Ireland as much as it seems like those types of things. Yeah, I will. Absolutely.
30:37 I'll write a very special message just for you, Kyle, and delighted to do so. Well, very
30:42 good. Well, all kidding aside, the surprising rebirth of belief in God, it is our 2023 book
30:47 of the year. I thought it was just absolutely fantastic. It's high quality like everything
30:51 you do. But before I let you go, is there anything else you want to get off your chest?
30:54 Well, if you want to get hold of the book, you can actually get assigned copy yourself.
30:59 We we're making those available through my own website, Justinbriley.com. So you can
31:04 do that and you can sign up to the newsletter, keep a breast of all that we're doing. You
31:08 can get hold of the podcast there as well, of course, and support these new initiatives
31:12 that I'm trying to launch in the coming year. But thank you just for the amazing support
31:16 you've given, Kyle. I've been absolutely delighted to see your own show, Flourish, and the way
31:20 in which you want to encourage others as well along the way. So bless you. Very good. All
31:24 right. Until next time, we'll see you then. Yeah, God bless. Have a happy Christmas and
31:29 a great new year.
31:30 You too.
31:31 Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode. Wherever you're listening to this,
31:34 please subscribe, rate, and leave us a positive five star review. If you want to come speak
31:38 alive at your event or on your podcast to shoot me an email to info@undonton.life. That's
31:43 I N F O at undonton.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our
31:48 website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming
31:51 your way. Just go to www dot undaunted dot life. And also we want to thank the band Holy Name
31:57 for allowing us to use their music for our content. The music on this podcast is our
32:00 song Perpetua, which is off their self titled debut album on Face Down Records. The links
32:05 are in the description. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness,
32:11 keep forging spiritual mental and physical resilience. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
32:27 Struggling with weight loss, Prolon's five day fasting mimicking diet is a clinically
32:38 developed nutrition program designed to promote fat loss while protecting lean body mass developed
32:43 at USC's Longevity Institute. It assists the body in entering a fasting like state that
32:47 helps reset metabolism and target visceral fat. In just five days, Prolon offers a science
32:53 backed approach to weight loss without extreme restriction or guesswork. Get 15% off plus
32:57 a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe at prolonlife.com/now.
Key quotes
2
Kyle Thompson
I gave his book that he released this year, The Surprising Rebirth of Belief in God, the title, the vaunted title of the 2023 book of the year.
Justin Briarley
I thought all of those on our honors and plaudits would somehow fulfill me. They never did, only this has truly fulfilled my life, Kyle.
Free Resource
31-Day Resilience Reset
If this episode hit, the next 31 days will be the reset. Free PDF, instant download.
START FREE →
Brotherhood
Apply to Dominion
Six pillars. Application only. The men's program Kyle built around the show.
APPLY NOW →
Dig Deeper
Ask the Archive
"Which episodes cover this topic?" Get answers grounded in all 940+ episodes.
START A CHAT →