0:00
[MUSIC]
0:17
This is on Daunton Life, a man's podcast.
0:20
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
0:22
Let's get into it.
0:23
Hi guys, today we've got a special guest on the podcast.
0:25
His name is Jonathan Isaac.
0:26
So Jonathan Isaac is a professional basketball player in the NBA
0:29
for the Orlando Magic.
0:31
He was drafted sixth overall in the 2017 NBA draft.
0:34
And a lot of people, he came on their radar on July the 31st of 2020.
0:38
This is back during the NBA bubble.
0:40
It's their first game back and this is after the killing of George Floyd
0:43
in police custody, after the killing of Breonna Taylor accidentally by police
0:47
and the racial tensions in America where the high state had been in a very, very long time.
0:51
And so everybody's on the court, everybody's wearing a Black Lives Matter t-shirt.
0:54
And when the National Anthem plays, everybody takes a knee, except for Jonathan Isaac.
0:59
He decided that he was going to stand there without the Black Lives Matter t-shirt on
1:03
and just stand there quietly, praying to himself, just being respectful to the National Anthem.
1:08
And that's where he got a lot of people's radar, especially in the conservative side of things,
1:12
because we weren't expecting that from an NBA player, right?
1:15
And so it was a very, very important time for him.
1:17
And there was a lot of stuff that happened before then, a lot of stuff that happened after that.
1:21
He kind of got, you know, mixed up in this whole anti-vaxxer debate that was happening
1:24
over the last, you know, six months to a year.
1:26
But he decided to write about not only those times, but also his entire life in a new book
1:30
that he has out this week with the Daily Wire, and it's called Why I Stand.
1:34
And so he put this out with DW Publishing.
1:36
It's going to get out there to a lot of different places as of the recording of this podcast.
1:39
It's number one in his category on Amazon.
1:42
It's going to do incredibly, incredibly well.
1:43
But the book itself has so much depth to it because you're expecting it to almost be
1:48
like a political memoir about this guy that decided to stand up for his country and that
1:51
type of thing. And it is that to a degree, but to a large degree, he did that because of his
1:57
dedication to Christ. And it's an important lesson for all of us. But the lessons don't
2:03
just begin there or in there. There's a lot of things from his life. And we get into all
2:07
that here in the interview, we get into the stuff about standing for the anthem and the
2:10
anti-vaxx stuff and some other things. But we talk about the important reasons why he decided
2:14
that he wanted to stand because it goes way, way deeper than just trying to make a political
2:17
point. All right, guys. So it's going to be a great one for you today.
2:20
But without further ado, let's get into it. Jonathan Isaac, welcome down to life of man's podcast.
2:26
Thank you, my man. I'm excited to be here.
2:28
Dude, I had to go and hit record because we were saying such cool stuff off air. And I'm like,
2:31
okay, we got to get this in there because people are always like, Oh, I had a better interview
2:35
before I hit record. Well, that's your own fault. So I'm not going to make my own mistake here.
2:38
So we're going to start very generically here because there's a lot to talk about when it comes to
2:42
your life. And there's a lot of great things that I picked out of your book. And that's what I do
2:45
want to talk about you first, talk about with you first is you have a book out this week called
2:49
Why I Stand. And as of a few days ago, right, so this is being released on the Thursday of release
2:54
week, it was already number one on the Amazon charts in your category. And it's going to continue
2:59
to climb from there. And I know you're not a guy that really focuses on rankings and all that.
3:02
And every time somebody wants to talk to you about you, you point them to Christ. But I'm going to
3:07
force you to talk about yourself a little bit on this episode. So you publish this with the daily
3:11
wire. Okay, so it's one of their first few publishing that are under their new publishing wing.
3:15
So two part first question, why did you write a book? You know, when you're this young,
3:19
still in the middle of your MBA career, that kind of thing. And then why did you choose to publish with
3:23
DW? Yeah, why did I write a book? So when when I originally stood, everybody came out and said,
3:30
Jonathan Isaac is the most courageous and bold person in the world. And then you have the other
3:34
side of the aisle that's saying this guy is nuts. He's a cool, he's a terrible person. And I'm like,
3:39
listen, I want people to be able to have to hear the story behind the stand. And to me,
3:45
but when I was really writing the story and going through it, I'm like,
3:48
you know, this really gives the stand its backbone. And so what I wanted to do was pretty much just
3:53
share my testimony of why I believe that Jesus Christ is the answer for the world,
3:57
because he's been the answer for me. And so I want this book to be, you know, a beacon of light and
4:03
hope and let people see in my life the transformation that Jesus brought me. And hopefully that
4:07
interns and powers them encourages them to stand up for what they believe in to find Christ in the
4:11
first place and to just write it out and continue to snag. Why I did it with the Daily Wire? Well,
4:19
first off, they were one of the ones that reached out to me or that connected with my
4:24
book agent. And so we did several interviews with different publishers and, you know, some weren't
4:31
so kind to what I had to say, you know, where I was coming from with the book. But the Daily Wire
4:36
loved it. And you know, I, Ben Shapiro is a Jew. I don't agree with everything. You know, we don't
4:42
agree, you know, 100% on everything, but we agree on some great things. And so I was excited the
4:46
fact that he was even interested in publishing the book and we went for it. Yeah, that's an awesome
4:51
way of going about it. Because that's what people talk about when they talk about the Daily Wire
4:54
of Ben Shapiro or Prager you and Dennis Prager. It's like, these people have the same worldview in
4:59
terms of the Judeo-Christian ethic that we all live under. And that's what's most important,
5:03
especially when you get into what you're talking about. But I think it's awesome the way that you
5:06
describe it because I didn't know that you existed because I, you know, I'm an Oklahoma City Thunder
5:10
fan, right? But I didn't watch every single game and every single player and look at all the rosters
5:14
and play fantasy. So that was the first time you popped up on my radar whenever you stood for the
5:17
national anthem. And we'll get way, way, way more into that here later on in the interview, guys.
5:21
Don't worry. But like the cool thing about it is all of us, we think history started with when we
5:26
were born, right? But we don't even understand why you took that stand. If we don't go literally all
5:31
the way back to Hunt's Point in the South Bronx where you grew up. And so let's just kind of start
5:36
there. So you grew up in New York City. So tell us what it was like growing up for a young Jonathan
5:41
Isaac. You know, growing up in New York wasn't bad. It wasn't until I moved from New York to Naples
5:47
Florida that my kind of life got flipped upside down and I kind of saw how kind of bad we had it in
5:52
New York at times. But being a kid in New York, it was great. It was fun. I didn't know any other
5:57
place existed in the world. So, you know, I talk about in the book how, you know, sometimes we would
6:01
sleep on the floor at McDonald's with my dad because he worked in Night Shift. But to us, it was like,
6:06
you know, sleeping in McDonald's is the greatest thing. And so it wasn't until I kind of grew up a
6:11
little bit and got out of New York where I was like, okay, you know, that was a little rough. But
6:15
New York was fun. My dad was the spiritual head of our family and he always had us in church,
6:19
always memorizing scripture. So a lot of where I am today is because of the seeds that, you know,
6:24
that he imparted to me. And I think the cool thing about how you talk in your book. And this is one
6:29
of the things that's refreshing whenever people write an autobiography about themselves is when
6:33
they don't always seem to make themselves or their families out to be the hero. Like, you don't have
6:37
to get into all the gritty detail because there are some secrets that should probably be kept
6:40
within the family. But obviously you wrote about how it was a very, very hard thing because you
6:44
didn't just move from New York City to Florida. Your mom took you and the kids away from your dad
6:49
and moved you to Florida. And so there was this fracturing of your entire family. And your dad,
6:53
you call him, you know, lovingly, you call him pops. But he was your everything. I mean,
6:57
you mentioned several times in the book that he was like Superman to you. So get into that a little
7:01
bit deeper, having such a close relationship with your father and then being split up. And this is
7:06
well before you realize like, you're, you're just like a lot of other people that look like you,
7:10
where they don't have their father in the family, like the fatherlessness epidemic in the United
7:14
States is rampant. But this was kind of different circumstances. Your mom just kind of made a decision.
7:18
So walk me through all that. Yeah, it was tough. And my dad really was like Superman to me. Like,
7:24
when I would get out of school, when I would get home, I really felt like me and I have like a
7:28
special bond that me and my other brothers or my other siblings didn't share with him. But like,
7:32
I would run into his arms and he picked me up and swing me around like, but it was just me.
7:36
And so I always felt special with him. And he was just great. I thought he was a balanced
7:41
guy in terms of discipline and love and wanting us to do right and be honest kids and
7:47
productive kids. So, you know, I appreciated him for that. But once, you know, my mom and my dad had
7:52
their falling out of my mom, you know, took us and went to Naples. It was just life just completely
7:57
changed. I was in a new place of trying to fit in with now a white crowd in Naples, Florida and
8:03
really struggling in that regard. And just my mom trying to be both the mom and the dad having
8:08
the work all the time. It just, I kind of went into myself more in a way that I haven't, that I
8:13
didn't when I was in New York with my dad. So when you're in Florida and in your around what age,
8:19
whenever you went, I'm trying to remember what age you are. 10. Okay. So you're 10 years old. So
8:23
you're still very much so in your formative years. Was that really the first time that you really
8:27
recognized kind of the racial differences or maybe racial angst? Because, you know, where you grew
8:32
up in the South Bronx, you grew up in with a lot of people of color, that type of thing, people that
8:36
would categorically describe themselves as that. But is that kind of the first time where I was like,
8:39
Oh, I'm very different than these people or maybe these people had a different upbringing kind of
8:43
talk me through that a little bit. Yeah, 100% culture shock. Like, yeah, we were me and my
8:48
brothers were like 123 of 13 black kids in our high school when we got to Naples. But when we
8:55
first got there, I was in elementary schools just finishing up elementary school. And it was tough,
9:00
man. Like, it's like a, like a fly and some milk almost. And you know, these kids are different.
9:06
We come from different places. We have different habits. And one of the things that I was so used to
9:11
in the New York was horseplay and messing around and roughhousing. And that was my way of trying
9:16
to fit in with these kids where it was like, you know, we can play and have fun and maybe they'll
9:20
like me, but they didn't take too kindly to me, you know, grabbing them by their ankles and dragging
9:25
them down the hallway because I was bigger than most kids as well. And so my first moment of really
9:30
having that culture shock was when I got in trouble in school. My mom had to be called to the school.
9:34
And and the principal is literally concerned for these other kids lives. And I'm just like,
9:41
I just want to replay. And my mom understands that. And she knows where I was coming from.
9:45
But for me, it was that moment where I really became the first moment of being self conscious.
9:51
Self conscious. So now when I go back to school, I'm thinking, I don't want to do anything that
9:55
it's going to make these kids not like me. And it really did develop a sense of anxiety and fear
9:59
inside of me because I didn't want to be rejected in a way of feeling rejected by my dad and him
10:05
not being there anymore. I was really searching for love. And I didn't get it early on when I got
10:09
to April. And man, and that's a through point for a lot of your book, this anxiety and this
10:13
angst and this wanting to fit in. And the racial stuff just kind of makes it even more different
10:17
because you don't really know until you know. So like growing up for me, I grew up in a surprisingly
10:22
very, very diverse town in Southwest Oklahoma, because we had a lot of people come through for
10:26
work and for military service. And so like when I go back and look at my class pictures,
10:30
like in elementary school, there's way more people that aren't white than are white,
10:34
even in an area that is like predominantly white. It wasn't until I got to college. And I met people
10:39
that grew up in small towns that only grew up around white people to where they're just like,
10:43
they didn't know how to act or respond. They thought they had to be a different person when
10:46
they ran into somebody that's from a different background or ethnicity or culture or race or
10:50
something like that. So it's like, you don't know until you know. And so it's ignorance is bliss
10:53
until it's right there in your face. But for you, one of the ways that you were able to kind of
10:56
cope with that was basketball. And the funny thing about it now is it's funny looking back now,
11:00
because here you are, you're in the NBA, we'll get more into your NBA career in a minute.
11:04
But for a while there, Jonathan, it did look like you were going to be a good athlete,
11:07
much less a basketball player. You're kind of a goofy kid, kind of a lanky body. Like you,
11:12
I don't know, you're just like a baby giraffe. I don't know if you described yourself that way,
11:15
but that's kind of what it felt like. So take us through how you developed in the game of
11:20
basketball from childhood. And let's let's at least take it up through your senior year of high
11:23
school and then we'll pick it up from there. Yeah, I was I was terrible when I when I first
11:27
started to be nice. I tried to sound like you were terrible. I like to play a little bit in New
11:32
York. I blew my dad when my brother will go to the rec center. But once I got to Naples, that was
11:37
my first time being in an organized basketball situation. I didn't know what to do. And my first
11:42
air you team, I got kicked off by and it's in the book as well. I got kicked off and they didn't
11:46
even tell me I got kicked off. They just stopped showing up. That was so funny. And so yeah, so
11:53
but it was real incremental. And I got with a coach Bora, who really started to teach me the
11:58
fundamentals. And then I just I fell in love with the game and also fell in love with what
12:03
it started to bring me. So once I get to middle school and I get to my freshman year of high school,
12:07
people start noticing that Jonathan can play ball. And so the girls, you know, like me a little bit,
12:12
the guys who obviously look different than differently than me, they want me to be on their team. They
12:16
want me to play. And now I'm starting to feel that that sense of belonging and a sense of fitting
12:21
in with these with these people that I didn't fit in with before. So I dove into basketball like
12:26
headfirst where I would play all day every day. And I just watched myself get better and better
12:31
and better and to where I'm a senior in high school. And I'm the number one player in the state of
12:34
Florida. And then I take the year at IMG and the the offers start rolling in. My life starts changing
12:40
dramatically. But I'm still struggling with these things in the background. I'm still struggling
12:44
with fear and anxiety because I don't want to lose what I've gained. And so when I would play well,
12:49
everything was great. My family loved me. Everybody was was loving me. But when I didn't play well,
12:54
I hated myself because I was like, I'm going to go back to where it all started, where no one
12:58
wants to be around me. And I'm going to be rejected. And I'm going to lose everything that I've worked
13:01
so hard for. So I was always kind of tip toying along this line of trying to perform for for love.
13:07
Right. Let's dig into that a little bit more. So we'll get into your college decision and all
13:12
that here in a second. But I'm really, really curious about this, because you talk about at
13:15
many points in your basketball career, whether in youth or all the way up through the pros,
13:19
that you're highly recruited, you're well sought after, you're well liked, people have this high
13:24
ceiling thought about you. But you just had an overwhelming, if I could describe it in one word,
13:28
doubt, yet a tremendous amount of doubt in yourself. And some people look at it as imposter syndrome,
13:34
you may have heard someone talk about that to where it's just like, man, I shouldn't be here.
13:37
And you're just terrified because you're assuming that if at any moment somebody is going to rip
13:41
the veil off and they're going to realize that I'm not supposed to be here. So I think that has
13:45
a lot to do with identity. And you found your identity in something very, very stable, you know,
13:49
later on, you know, after your kind of high school years. But how did you how did you deal with that
13:53
as you're growing up? Because you're going to be talking to an audience, Jonathan,
13:56
that still feel that way. There's a lot of people that wherever they're working, whatever they're
13:59
doing, they feel like an imposter as a father and imposter in their sales job or an imposter in their
14:03
podcast job like me, like they just feel that. What do you do with that? Thanks. Well, at the time,
14:08
I didn't do anything at the time I buried it. And I didn't talk to anybody. And it was just
14:13
something that I was really struggling with on my own. I would cry myself to sleep at night sometimes
14:18
because I would have a bad game. And again, just the self doubt, the self insecurity, the beating
14:22
myself up over, I'm going to be the one that messes everything up all the time. And again,
14:28
I don't belong here. And so I would brush it off and I'd get back out there and I'd have
14:31
a great game and then everything would be great again. And it would kind of it would cause me to
14:36
not worry about it as much anymore until those feelings creep back up. And I had a bad game.
14:41
So it was always this ebb and flow of doing well, doing negatively, but almost keeping up the show
14:48
for people to see that Jonathan Isaac is great. And people did people for the people around me
14:52
were the ones that saw the greatness in me when I didn't see them myself. Coach Gates, you know,
14:56
said to me when I was like 400 in the country said, you're going to be top five. And I'm like,
15:01
I don't understand how you can say that. Like, how can you look at me and say that? And it happened.
15:05
But for the longest time, I didn't do anything about it. And it wasn't until I was able
15:10
by the love of Christ to find my identity in him in what he says about me. And it's grace and
15:16
it's mercy. And I don't have to be perfect. And I don't have to perform for his love because it's
15:20
constant. And it's always there. And I've learned that more and more. And it's been it's gotten easier
15:25
for me. And even, you know, coming up to the book, like, people say, you know, how did you get to
15:29
this place of being willing to stand? Because if you look at my life, two, you know, four or five
15:34
years ago, I would have never been the guy that would have decided to stand by himself or do anything
15:39
alone. But I've had small increments of my life of trusting God and finding my identity in him
15:45
that has kind of caused his boldness and faith in me to grow. And I have, I have the right people
15:50
in my life, my pastors in my life, my wife is in my life that keep me encouraged and keep me fighting
15:54
to, you know, where I am today. Man, you get me all jacked up. I'm like, ready to go like you're
15:59
firing me up. But like, we got to keep with the cadence here. People are going to wonder like,
16:02
where do you go to college? So let's go and get back to that. Because we got to talk about Coach
16:05
Gates. So in the book, you go into great detail about how you were recruited out of high school
16:09
by these enormous blue chip college programs. And you ended up choosing to go to Florida State
16:15
because of a very special relationship that you forged with one of the coaches there.
16:18
Now, some people were expecting you to go to, you know, one of the blueprints, right? So it's like,
16:22
is it going to be Kentucky? Or is it going to be Kansas? Or is it going to be Duke? Or you
16:25
and see, like, that's what they were expecting. And you know, Florida State is not a perennial,
16:28
you know, powerhouse when it comes to college basketball. But you chose them. And so take me
16:33
through that very, very special relationship. And I do want to kind of, well, actually take me
16:37
through how Coach Gates found you and all that. But then there's a quote from your relationship with
16:42
Coach Gates that we'll talk about here in a second. So take me through just how that initially got
16:45
forged. Well, Coach Gates, he really did become like the father figure in my life. You know, I had
16:52
Ron there, I had Bora and they were, they were mentors and there were gods, but Coach Gates was
16:56
the first one to really speak a level of belief into me that I didn't see into myself. And it kind
17:01
of gave me some sense of peace and comfort with him. And so as my dad was still in New York and on
17:06
top of that, he was the one that kind of orchestrated me kind of getting reconnected with my dad in
17:11
the book as well. And so as I'm at ISB International School of Broward, this, my coach tells me that,
17:18
you know, Coach from Florida State wants to come out and see me work out. I'm anxious and nervous
17:22
as heck, but I have a great workout. And from there on, you know, me and Coach Gates's relationship
17:27
is spawned. And he just, he, he didn't care about basketball. He just took to me as an individual.
17:32
And I think that he could, he could see the, the uneasiness, the anxiousness within me and,
17:38
and kind of focused on me as an individual. He asked me about my name. He asked me about my family.
17:43
How was I feeling? And all that stuff kind of helped me to, to relax a little bit and open up in our,
17:47
our relationship has just grown from there. And now I'm the, I'm the Godfather to one of his sons
17:52
and we have a great relationship. That's an amazing story. And like, again, you, you went with the
17:57
guy who first took an interest in you. And you could see, like, he would not have faulted you
18:01
if you had gone to somewhere else. Like if you said, Hey, rock, talk Jayhawk, I'm going to Lawrence
18:05
Kansas. He would have been, he would have been the wind beneath your wing sending you out there and
18:08
all that. But that's not really how it went. But I think that there's this one part, this may be
18:12
one of my favorite quotes from the entire book, because it really gave us, because you can say
18:16
that your relationship with Coach Gates is good. You can give some examples. But this showed that he
18:20
actually gave a damn. And I loved this quote. It was whenever you were being recruited,
18:25
he said, the day you get drafted, we're going to make sure that your relationship with your
18:29
father is restored and you feel comfortable enough to have him at your table, right? Because when
18:34
you get drafted, you got your table there, you got your family, friends, those types of things.
18:37
And he knew that you were somewhat estranged from your father. And that just didn't sit well with
18:41
him. So he wasn't talking about Xs and O's. He wasn't talking about, you know, how to come off
18:46
a screen faster. He wasn't talking about getting a shot up faster. He wasn't talking about
18:49
hand in the cookie jar. I wasn't talking about any of that. He's talking about your relationship
18:52
with your father. So for me, that was the first time that I realized, Oh man, Coach Gates is that
18:57
dude. And like he was going to be that dude for you no matter what. Is that kind of, you know,
19:01
how did that strike you? Because as a young man, you're you're still young and dumb. And like,
19:05
how did you even notice that he was really digging down to care about you at that moment?
19:09
I definitely didn't notice it at the time. The magnitude of what it was like, he literally went
19:14
and sent my dad a letter, called my dad on the phone, orchestrated from my dad to come to one of
19:20
my games. And from there, it kind of went from him showing up to more games and us being able to
19:24
talk and communicate and foster more of a relationship. And I was able to really
19:28
foster a stronger relationship with my dad once I really came to Christ. And so
19:33
but Coach Gates is a huge, huge part of that. And I definitely didn't understand it at the time.
19:38
But I've seen it and I've appreciated him more and more for what he did back then.
19:43
It was such a cool thing to hear that because you hear a lot of bad stories about recruiting,
19:47
frankly. So you get this kid that gets recruited, you know, the whole family trusts them. Hey,
19:51
we need you starter day one. And then you come in and you're, you know, third down on the depth
19:55
chart and football or you never see the court of basketball or something like that. So it's
19:59
really good and refreshing to hear a story about some of that goes someplace. And it's kind of like,
20:03
it really was a good match. So you have your first year at Florida State, it goes well for
20:08
you, you guys make the tournament. And after your first year, you're a highly touted
20:12
draft pick. You know, you're considered by many that you're going to be an NBA, a lottery draft pick.
20:16
But you wanted to come back to school because you were scared. But Coach Gates basically said,
20:19
I'm not going to have a spot for you next year, son. You can need to go to the NBA. But let's go
20:23
ahead and fall fast forward to draft night. You heard NBA Commissioner Adam Silver announce this
20:28
with the sixth pick in the 2017 NBA draft. The Orlando Magic selects Jonathan Isaac
20:33
from Florida State University. Now I got some breaking news for you, Jonathan. Most people are
20:37
not going to hear that in their lives with their name in that sentence. But a lot of people have
20:42
that dream. They have the dream, but it happened to you. Take us through that night. What was that
20:46
like? Well, it was it was so fast. I think that's the one thing that I remember about the night.
20:51
It was so fast. And I could tell even in, you know, being so young, I could tell that I didn't
20:57
understand it the way that everybody else understood it. And so you had other players that were,
21:02
they just seem so ready. They seem so primed for the moment they were celebrating, you know,
21:07
you know, the night after the draft. And it just seemed like they had, you know, their bearings.
21:11
But for me, it was like, I was just like, what is going on? And I grabbed some pizza from like a
21:17
pizza shop, a block away from my hotel. And I just went to my hotel room. I sent my family home with
21:22
an Uber. And I'm just in my room, like, I'm an NBA basketball player. And, you know, part of me
21:28
was like, I did it. You know, it's so good. You know, thank you, God, all this different stuff.
21:32
A part of me is like, I don't even know what what happens next. And the next day, I'm on a plane
21:37
to Orlando. And now it's time to start my NBA career. And off we went. Man, that's such a crazy
21:45
story. Because it does seem like some of these kids, like they knew it. But for you, it was kind
21:49
of a later realization that this might be a reality where some of these kids might have
21:53
getting pumped up in AAU ball when they were 13 or 14, you know what I mean? They might have
21:57
been getting talked to by an Adidas rep that wasn't supposed to be talking to them or, you know,
22:00
a college coach that wasn't allowed to be talking to them. So it's a very interesting story.
22:04
And your pops was there the night you got drafted. So your relationship, well, actually, I wasn't
22:09
gonna ask you about that. Let's talk about that. So Coach Gates said he was gonna make that happen
22:12
for you when he's recruiting you when you're still a teenager, when you're still in college.
22:16
And then here you are on draft night and pops is at the table. What was I like?
22:19
It was great. It was great. It was definitely like full circle. And it definitely seemed surreal.
22:23
But exactly what he said was, was it? And it wasn't even, it wasn't like, oh, we don't have a
22:29
relationship. But just because Coach Gates said it, I'm gonna invite you. It was like,
22:32
I call my dad on the phone and was comfortable enough to say, yo, man, I want you at this, you
22:38
know, event for me. And he was extremely ecstatic and was excited to be there. And he was already in
22:42
New York as well. So it just worked out perfectly. That did work out perfectly. I was so glad to
22:46
hear that because it would have been a really crappy story if Coach Gates had said that. And then he
22:49
wasn't with you there on draft night. So it worked out really, really well. But you go to Orlando,
22:54
you have your first year in Orlando, and you experienced several injuries. So he had setbacks.
22:58
It wasn't, you know, your idyllic, you know, first year in the league, but you had a lot of rehab time.
23:03
So you had a lot of downtime. And it's around this time as well that you ran into this random
23:08
guy that you described with a Bahamian accent named Doc. And so from the moment you met him,
23:14
Doc would have a profound impact on you, your life, your walk with Christ. He's a major center
23:19
point of this book. He wrote the foreword of your book, even though I wrote, I read the foreword,
23:23
I'm like, who's this Doc guy? And then you start reading the book and you're like, holy cow. So
23:26
who's Doc? Doc is the man. I mean, Doc is my pastor today. You know, he married me and my wife.
23:34
He's a friend. He's a mentor. He's just, he's just, you know, he's my pastor. You know, I go to him
23:38
for advice and mentorship and almost everything that I do now today. But our relationship started
23:43
with, and it's so dope because I think about it. It's like, only God could know what I was going
23:49
through at that point in time. And again, that's how it felt so orchestrated. It felt like God
23:54
knew exactly where I was. And that is what ultimately led me to kind of say, Jesus,
23:59
you're real. Come into my life, be Lord of my life, come into my heart, be Lord of my life,
24:03
because I got to the realization that, man, you love me for me and you see me in this moment. And
24:08
so I'm injured. I'm already on this kind of course to like find out more about Christ,
24:14
because I went to this chapel service and the chaplain said, why do you call me Lord, Lord,
24:18
and not do what I say? It's Luke 646. And I'm like, yo, that's me. I'm living my life. I'm doing
24:24
my thing, but I'm not really checking for God in any way. But if I have a bad game or something
24:28
like that, I'll pray or, you know, delete all my music and listen to gospel music until I put it
24:33
back on my phone. But yeah, so I'm getting on the elevator and this guy is getting off. And he looks
24:40
at me and he says, I can tell you how to be great. And I'm like, great, tell me how to be great. I'm
24:44
like, you must not know who I am. He says, I can tell you how to be great. And I say, tell me,
24:51
he said, you have to know Jesus. And I'm like, Jesus, like, I'm a Christian yet. But that was it.
24:56
And from that point on, it's like, and I don't want to give too much of it away, because I want
25:01
you guys to get the book and really get the 411. But my life just kind of turns upside down. And I
25:07
start to see, you know, God orchestrated my footsteps, his footsteps, but ultimately comes down to
25:14
him becoming my passion. I'm not going to give you, I'm not going to give you all the details. But
25:17
to this day, he's just a great man in my life. And to get those interior details, you got to get
25:22
the book. Yeah, and guys, it will be in the show notes. There's no way we can get into the amount
25:26
of detail in the book, even though it's a short, it's a quick read, but there's so much detail there.
25:30
But what I will say real quick is just that, you know, another highlight to Doc is one of the,
25:35
he's the one who kind of introduced me to the love of Christ and loving it. It's one thing to
25:41
say that, that Jesus loves me for who I am and all these different things. But God uses people.
25:46
And God placed Doc in my life to kind of show me what the love of God was like. And we had moments
25:51
of real like intimate emotion to where I'm frustrated and I'm upset in the book and he walks me through
25:59
it in love. He doesn't condemn me. He doesn't, you know, see this NBA player who has all these
26:04
problems and throws me away. He believes in me the same way that Coach Gates believes in me. But I
26:09
believe, you know, to a greater degree, he called me great when I didn't see myself as great. And
26:15
now I'm starting to walk in what I believe is some form of greatness. And it's just though.
26:20
Well, the other thing about what it seemed to me, and you can correct me if I'm wrong,
26:24
what it seemed like what Doc would do with you is he would actually listen, which is what any good,
26:28
you know, pastor or father or friend would do that they're going to listen,
26:32
but they're not going to manipulate because when somebody is in the, in the places in life where
26:36
they're so down and so beat up and so depressed and so anxious like you were at several times
26:40
throughout your life leading up to this moment, you're a really, really good person to manipulate
26:45
and to move and like, Hey, I'm going to do this with you and I'm going to use him for my purposes.
26:48
But what it seemed like Doc was doing is he was trying to get you to a real sense of who Christ
26:54
was and who Christ could be in your life. Because I think you said early on in your,
26:57
your childhood, I think you talked about this in the book, you know, you did the pray, you prayed
27:00
your prayer, you raised your hand and that kind of thing. And so you were a Christian kind of like,
27:04
I was born in Oklahoma. So I'm a Christian, right? Because I was born on this red dirt,
27:07
kind of the same thing. But he helped you get an authentic level of faith. Would you say that's
27:12
fair to say? 100%. He helped me to see that a relationship with Christ is something that's
27:18
tangible. It's something like God is our God wants to be our father, our friend to lead us through
27:24
life and help us to become who he created us to be. And I had this vision in my mind of being a
27:30
Christian was just you go to church from sometimes and you pray sometimes. But now I really do see
27:35
it as a full life of growth and challenges and ultimately becoming who God has called you to become.
27:42
And that's an incredible message. Like guys, we're going to talk about some more cool stuff on the
27:46
latter half of this interview. But that may be the nugget that you need to hear today,
27:50
because a lot of guys check the box. That is what they do. So they go to church two or three times a
27:54
month. They check the box like they, they volunteer and drive the bus to kids camp. You know, once a
27:58
year and then they take a year or two or 10 off, but that's not an authentic level of faith. Like
28:02
the fruits of your, your Christian walk should be evident. And if you don't see fruits around you,
28:07
it's probably going to be an issue for you moving forward in terms of the authentic level of your
28:11
faith. But we do need to go ahead and get into July 31st, 2020, because you became a household
28:17
name on that night. Like I already told you, I, you know, I was a Thunder fan, you know, I'd
28:20
watch almost every single Thunder game, but I didn't exactly know who you were at this point.
28:24
But to kind of take people all back to the year of 2020, because most people deleted it from their
28:28
memory banks. This is of course after George Floyd died in police custody. This was after Breonna
28:32
Taylor was accidentally shot by police and racial tensions were not at the highest state ever been.
28:37
I mean, we fought a civil war for Christ's sake, but there was, it was high, like it was high of
28:41
sorts. And this was fueled by organizations like Black Lives Matter, like the Democratic Party,
28:46
like the mainstream media. But before your first game in the NBA bubble, most people should remember
28:51
the NBA bubble. There was a nice big break because of COVID and the NBA's coming back to
28:54
continue the season. Y'all were supposed to be playing the Brooklyn Nets. And you did play the
28:58
Brooklyn Nets. But during the national anthem, when everyone else on the court, the opposing team,
29:02
the coaches, the trainers, the referees, everybody, even your own teammates were kneeling. You alone
29:08
stood for the national anthem. They were all wearing shirts that said Black Lives Matter across the
29:12
front. And you were simply standing there in your Jersey top and your warm up pants. But that's where
29:17
most of us pick up the story about Jonathan Isaac. But a lot happened behind the scenes prior to
29:23
the decision you made to go ahead and stand. So take us through what happened leading up to that
29:28
with you, with your teammates, kind of everything that was coming along with that.
29:31
Well, yeah, what happened to George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, all those different things were
29:36
obviously tragic. What I tried my best to do was to take a step back and say,
29:42
what is the best way for Jonathan to respond in this moment in a way that I felt would bring
29:47
change? The same way that people who disagree with me or decided to kneel in that moment,
29:52
decided for themselves what they thought would bring change. And for them, it was kneeling and
29:56
wearing a T-shirt. But for me, it wasn't. What I tried to do was look at my life and say,
30:01
the gospel, the love of Jesus Christ has been the thing that has changed my life. And I cannot
30:07
think of a greater message and antidote for the times that we see today than the gospel. And during
30:13
this time, I'm talking to my pastor all the time about what I'm feeling and we're leading up to
30:17
this moment. And before we actually go into the bubble, my pastor is preaching a message,
30:22
and it's about Jesus being captured by the Roman guard. And Peter lunges forward and cuts off the
30:29
guy's ear. And Jesus says, if you live by the sword, you'll die by the sword. And he heals the
30:34
guy's ear. And I was thinking about, well, first off, what the guy who got his ear healed had to be
30:41
thinking. And they're saying this Jesus is the king of the Jews, he's the Messiah, all these
30:46
different things. And they're like, we don't believe this. And next year, my ear is chopped
30:49
off. And now it's healed. I'm sure he had a whole confusion in his mind about belief in that Jesus
30:54
was really who he said he was. But what I didn't want to do was step into a fight. And during that
31:00
time, there was so much anger, there was so much unrest, there was so much divisiveness,
31:05
being spewed all over the place. And it was so easy to kind of get lost in the sauce of the moment.
31:11
And so I didn't want to do that. I wanted to step above it and offer the message that I felt
31:18
that could really bring change, which was simply, if we could love each other, the way that God
31:22
loves us, which is in spite of our failures, in spite of our faults, in spite of our sin,
31:27
then we could have real change. If we could forgive each other, the way that God forgives
31:31
us, which is in spite of us, that we could have real change. And that's what I decided to stand
31:36
up and say. Flowing ad bunted on metrics that look great till the CFO sees them. That's bull's
31:41
bend. And marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions. I remember telling my boss, it'll be
31:48
good for the brand when leads were slow. Yeah, it wasn't. Cut the bull's bend. LinkedIn lets you
31:56
target by company, job title, and more. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign
32:02
and get a $250 credit, go to linkedin.com/campaign, terms and conditions apply. Yeah, and it wasn't,
32:09
a lot of your teammates weren't happy with you. They did know you were going to do that. So some
32:12
people thought you surprised them when you went out there, but know that the team did have a meeting
32:15
and you kind of discussed that. But there's a great, a great quote from the book, rather,
32:19
not great. But the quote is this kneeling for the anthem to symbolize support for Black lives
32:24
was no symbol at all. It was an order. And my allegiance to the cause was measured solely by my
32:30
obedience to that command. Now, this is where we get into worldview when it comes to left versus
32:35
right versus authoritarianism or totalitarianism or things like that, is this was a requirement
32:40
to do this. Like, if you didn't do this, you were doing something that was antithetical
32:44
to morality, to most people and culture. And I thought about this at the time,
32:48
what if it wasn't you that had done it? What if it would have been a random white player,
32:54
like at the time? Can you like, literally, I know, like, there wasn't one that did that. So
32:59
we didn't have to like, you know, experience what that would have been like. But take, take the,
33:02
the, the, the widest player you can think of in 2020, I'll let you all use your own imagination.
33:07
What if they were the ones to stand up? What would have it been like? Because you got a lot of vitriol
33:11
and hate for this. And I can only imagine what it would have been like for somebody that didn't
33:15
look like you. And that's whenever we start putting people in these boxes of immutable characteristics,
33:20
because you look this way, you're supposed to think a certain way, because I look this way,
33:23
I'm supposed to think a certain way, but like, take me through the aftermath, because you end up
33:27
playing the game, you had an okay game and all those types of things. But what happened immediately
33:31
after? I mean, because it was, it was a storm for you in some good ways, but in a lot, in a lot of
33:36
bad ways. And the first question after the game was, do you even believe that Black Lives Matter
33:42
such an unfair question to start off? But you knew what you were in for?
33:46
Yeah, I knew what I was in for. But at the same time, it was, it was hectic. It was, it was,
33:52
it was rough. And obviously, all of the negativity came. But the one thing that I focused on was all
33:58
of the positivity and encouragement that came as well, the people who said that they were inspired
34:02
and willing now, now willing to stand up for what they believe in, and to deliver it with grace and
34:08
love, that that's what encouraged me. And again, I have the right people around me to encourage
34:13
me and to keep me focused on all those different things. But it was tough. And then you add into
34:17
the fact that the next game after standing a full match anthem, I tear my ACL. Then you have a whole
34:24
another heap of pylon of, Oh my gosh, a knee for a knee. And God did this and all that different stuff.
34:29
But what, what, what, what I quickly understood about, you know, God's purposes and what God allows
34:35
is like, yo, if I didn't get hurt, there would be no book. And I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be able to
34:40
tell my story and for people to know more about me and to be encouraged and to find Christ and
34:45
all those different things. So I was okay. But it definitely was a whirlwind.
34:49
So let's go back to that because I remember that the day all the stuff broke in the news about one
34:55
NBA player in Orlando decided that he was going to stand. And then the next day that player by the
34:59
same name that I just started following on Instagram and just started following on Twitter, very next
35:03
game. Boom, knee goes. And I want you to talk a little bit more about that because that's when
35:09
you get to see the true evil in some people that they were so happy to watch you be hurt. Now,
35:15
there have been people that, you know, they hate the Orlando magic. So any player on the magic that
35:19
gets hurt, they're going to, they're going to be excited because they just love the Miami Heat.
35:22
That's their team and they hate the Orlando magic. Okay, whatever. But like these people were so
35:27
excited that your career might be over with. Like, I still get [inaudible] off by one star reviews on my
35:33
podcast. And here you are, you are having people that are just so happy that you're going to have
35:37
to go under the knife and that you may never recover. Give me some more on that. You kind of just,
35:41
you know, glazed over it. But that that's, that sucks. That sucks really bad.
35:45
It was really tough to swallow, you know, in the moment, but ultimately you don't win like that.
35:52
And, you know, I wouldn't, you know, glory in anybody's defeat or demise or hurt or anything like
35:58
that. And what I just tried to try my best to do is just keep focused and keep moving in the
36:03
right direction. But I don't, it's almost like I don't have to account for somebody who would be,
36:08
who would be willing to do something like that. And so, you know, for me to go back at them and
36:13
for me to be angry is to become them. And that's what I don't want to do. And so, yes, it was tough.
36:18
Yes, it was, you know, awfully tough. But again, I had the right people around me to keep me
36:22
encouraged and to keep me focused on the right things like, you know, you have a chance to write
36:26
your story down so people can have their lives changed. Hey, it's a great perspective to have.
36:31
And a lot of people wouldn't have the emotional wherewithal or the support system to where they
36:35
could respond in a very, very healthy way. But what do you have to say to fans like me? So like,
36:40
I told you, you know, before the thunder came to Oklahoma City, I was a, you know, every NBA
36:44
playoffs fan or Michael Jordan fans. So anytime Michael Jordan anything, you know, I was like,
36:48
absorbed into all that. But then whenever, whenever I started watching games in the NBA bubble,
36:53
and I saw Black Lives Matter emblazoned on the court and understanding what I do,
36:57
understand about that organization and about their worldview and how it's antithetical to the
37:01
Christian worldview, I just said, you know what, I'm not going to support a league or an organization
37:06
that hates me in my way of thinking. And so it hasn't hurt my life at all to just turn off the
37:11
NBA. I've not watched five minutes of an NBA game. I have no idea who's even in the playoffs right
37:15
now if it doesn't pop up randomly on Twitter. But what would you say because obviously it affects
37:19
your bottom line as a as a player in the NBA to for these fans are just like, no, I'm done. Like,
37:24
I'm gonna go watch, you know, racing or I'm gonna go watch fighting or something like that to where
37:28
I can just watch a sport and veg out. I don't have to be preached to. Yeah, I mean, at the end of the
37:34
day, you know, each fan and individual is is, you know, it's it's you, it's your life you can do
37:39
exactly what you want to do. And honestly, it's the same thing with the NBA. You know, I don't I
37:44
don't control what they what they decide to put on the court or what they decide to roll out.
37:47
I hope that you know, you guys can still watch me play. Hey, I'll watch you. Anytime
37:53
Orlando Magic are playing on TNT. I'm watching. All right. Don't you worry. No, I appreciate it. But
37:59
yeah, I think what I've tried my best to do is in in my conversations in my demeanor, it is to
38:06
win the people that disagree with me to the best of my ability. And so what I don't want to do is
38:12
get into the fight in the war of going back and forth about who's right and who's wrong and who's
38:17
good and who's evil. Yes, I believe that you should ultimately and un unashamedly stand up for what
38:22
it is that you believe in. But I do believe that you should do it in love in an effort to win the
38:27
people that disagree with you because they're ultimately just like you before you found understanding
38:31
and before, you know, they're just like me before I found Christ. And so, you know, if God didn't love
38:36
me first, then I wouldn't be where I was at today. And so, so yeah, so I mean, I necessarily wouldn't
38:42
be the one automatically to just be like, I'm not going to watch anymore. I'm not going to do this.
38:45
I'm not going to do that. But, you know, honestly, to each his home and it's your time. It's your
38:49
money. So you can do it with what you want. We are live from Fenny's house.
38:54
Guests are gathering around the TV, even with a big storm outside. All we worried about the fee.
38:59
Nope, they have Xfinity Wi-Fi. Get reliable fiber power gig Wi-Fi with Peacock included
39:03
to stream the beautiful game this summer. Xfinity, imagine that. Restrictions apply new
39:06
gig internet customers only. Actual speeds vary. Offer for Peacock premium with ads currently
39:10
at $10.99 a month value and limited to Xfinity internet members with newer upgraded gig speed
39:13
or faster service. Activation required to access content. Peacock must be activated within first
39:16
90 days. Management of existing subscriptions may be required to avoid multiple subscriptions
39:19
and duplicate charges. Third party bill subscriptions continue until canceled and I have two kids below
39:24
the age. I got a two year old and a two month old right now. And so this idea that I get
39:28
sit down and watch three hours of anything is just hilarious to me right now. So like,
39:32
maybe down the road, but I do have a favorite NBA player right now and it's you, Jonathan Isaac.
39:37
You're the only guy I can get behind right now. And Steven Adams, he's still cool.
39:40
But the thing that's interesting about this is and by the way, if you're going to have these
39:45
conversations with people to change their minds, this is a PSA that I'm sure Jonathan,
39:48
you would sign on to. Don't do that on social media. How many people have ever written like a
39:53
12 paragraph long, you know, paragraph on on Facebook and posted it and changed somebody's
39:58
worldview in their mind, spending all day worried about what someone else is going to tweet or
40:02
sub tweet about you. It is not going to work. Get in front of these people, have the actual
40:06
conversations with these people, let them hear your voice, let them hear your opinions.
40:11
But you made everybody mad back in 2020 because you're such a bigoted loser. You're, you know,
40:16
you're a house this and a coon and all these horrible names that people decide they could call
40:20
you without it being a big issue. And then you decided, Jonathan, that you're going to stir the
40:23
pot again and not get the jab. What's wrong with you? Come on, man. Like we know that the
40:28
jab was going to save you, especially if you're a very healthy athlete, the jab was going to be
40:32
that next thing to send you to that next level. But I'm kind of saying all that a little bit
40:37
tongue and cheek. But that was kind of the next time you popped up on people's radar for fans of
40:41
that are maybe casual fans of the NBA. Here's this Jonathan Isaac guy again, causing all this
40:46
trouble. You had some, you know, mainstream media outlets come at you and they tried to like,
40:51
you know, twist your words around to kind of like attach you to some people that you would never
40:54
attach yourself to. So take me through all that nonsense because obviously there was a lot of
40:58
pressure on you, not to kneel, but you stood anyway. And there was a lot of pressure on you to get
41:02
the jab and you chose not to. So take us through it. Yeah, I mean, people started to ask me if I
41:08
just wanted to be a troublemaker and go against what everybody was doing. But it really wasn't the
41:12
case. You know, when when COVID and everything broke out, you know, I just kind of, I kind of
41:17
watched and there definitely was a feeling of unease with the way that it was pushed and the way that,
41:23
you know, different things were shouted down, like natural immunity, you know, like talking about
41:28
exactly what, you know, who is at most risk of COVID and all these different things are just not
41:34
being talked about and not having a conversation about. And so there was, there was a sense of
41:37
uneasiness with me. So I was like, okay, I'm going to tread lightly. And then I kind of got to the
41:41
point where I said, look, I'm healthy. I've had COVID already, which is a big deal. I'm not in
41:49
risk of having a negative reaction to catching COVID or severe reaction of catching COVID because
41:54
I'm not in the age range. I don't have any comorbidities, comorbidities. I'm in the best shape of my
41:59
life. I'm going to be okay. And to me, it wouldn't be wise to open myself up to the possibility of
42:05
having an adverse reaction to the vaccine that wouldn't stop me from getting the virus again in
42:10
the first place. And so, so to me, honestly, that was like, it was like common sense. I'm like,
42:15
okay, I'm fine. I'm in a good place. I don't, I don't, I don't have to take this. But then again,
42:19
it was the pressure of, you know, feeling the forcefulness of it, people's religious and medical
42:24
exemptions being denied and people losing their jobs. It was like, man, what is really going on
42:28
here? But the light bulb really went off for me when I kind of got the understanding of like,
42:33
okay, this is not just about a vaccine. This is obviously a political thing. This is obviously,
42:37
obviously, you know, biased to a degree about sides and who's right and who's wrong and making
42:41
it a moral argument when the Rolling Stone published that article about, you know, me coming to my
42:46
decision by studying Black history and watching Donald Trump press conferences and it was just,
42:52
it was completely wrong. It was, it was just a blatant lie. And I'm just glad that I had the
42:56
opportunity the next day to clear the air with my press conference. And that, you know, obviously
43:00
went crazy viral. But people were just like, you know, that sounds about right. That sounds
43:06
crazy. And then I even had, I even had, you know, news reporters that were in the room with me
43:11
come up to me after. And they were like, I agree with you. I agree with you, you think. And then,
43:16
I mean, you go through the course of the season, I was, I was probably the only, you know, I think
43:20
the only player on my team that didn't get COVID. Right. Of course, in the season, a bunch of my
43:24
teammates got COVID and they were like, man, we should listen to you, Jay, I all this different
43:28
stuff. But yeah. Well, I got to tell you, I can't wait for the next thing you're going to do to make
43:34
everybody mad because the first two acts were really awesome. But I'm sure the third act is
43:38
going to be even better. But wasn't it? So you don't have to answer this because I want you to
43:42
get in trouble. I thought it was hilarious when Steve Kerr, you know, who's basically like the
43:47
moral Jesus of all the coaches in the NBA got COVID because he was the one preaching about it,
43:52
got to wear the mask. He got four shots, five shots. Hey, let's get another shot. And he still got
43:57
COVID. Now, I only say that I'm glad he got that because he had basically no symptoms. He didn't even
44:02
have a call for a sniffle. But I did find that to be funny. Again, you don't have to say anything.
44:06
That was me that said, guys, it was me that said it. If you're reading the transcript,
44:09
Kyle said it, not Jonathan, but I do want to talk about this as well. You've been out for a while.
44:13
Okay. Now, if you read anything that's in the news on you right now, you haven't said anything
44:17
in Cindy area in about seven minutes. So they're only talking about this next coming season,
44:22
because we're in the middle of the playoffs. But as we look forward into the beginning of the 2022
44:26
23 season, everybody's expecting you back on the court. So will we see you back on the court start
44:31
season? It definitely looks that way. It definitely looks like I'm going to be ready. I'm excited.
44:37
I'm motivated and I can't wait to, you know, touch down the court and help this team win games.
44:41
So take me through a little bit of the anxiety though, because that was a very PR answer. You're
44:47
very good at this. You know, you gave me the answer. I wanted so I can move past it. But
44:50
you've not this would be two full seasons, correct? That you have not been on the court. I mean,
44:55
even even for a young and like, and you're still very, very young, but even for like a kid, if you
45:00
missed two years of something, there's going to be some growing pains. You're not the feel is the
45:04
game's going to be fast. The ball's not going to feel right. Like what do you have to do as a
45:08
professional athlete to make sure that you can come back in October, November and be legitimately
45:14
ready to go? Yeah, I'm honestly just going to have to take it and stride. I don't know exactly,
45:19
you know, how everything is going to feel once I get back out there on the court. But I feel good
45:23
right now. And I'm just I'm steadily progressing and feel that I'm going to be, you know, 100% ready
45:28
to go when the season starts. And I'll just go through the kind of growing pains of coming back
45:32
off an injury as they happen. But I'm excited. I feel good. I don't feel like I'm missing anything.
45:39
I don't feel like, you know, I'm going to have to make, you know, huge adjustments to get back on
45:43
the court. You know, I think I'm going to think I'm going to do just fine. Very good. Well, we'll
45:48
certainly all be rooting for you and praying for that, that strength that you're going to need
45:51
later on this year. And one last question about basketball, and then we'll get into a few other
45:55
topics that are more cultural and nature. But I know you've probably thought about this quite a
45:59
bit and I have a sense of maybe what your answer might be. But when you think about Jonathan Isaac,
46:04
the retired NBA player, what does life look like for Jonathan Isaac after professional basketball?
46:11
You know, I feel like I'm steadily figuring it out. Everyone kind of throws around the preacher
46:19
pastor for me. But I'm always reluctant and hesitant to kind of affirm that because it is such a
46:26
large mantle to bear. But, you know, I have, you know, preached from time to time.
46:33
But I just want to continue to grow. You know, I'm working on a second book right now, but I'm not
46:38
going to tell you anything about it. You know, why I stand is being talked about, you know,
46:44
in terms of being turned into a movie. And so actor may be in my future. Okay. So I mean, I
46:51
is just I'm just taking it in stride. I'm trying my best to walk out. You know, this Christianity
46:56
thing is it's humbly and is, you know, rightly as I know how. But but God is, you know, in all of
47:02
this, I feel like God is continuing to kind of, you know, foreshadow my purpose as bigger than,
47:06
you know, anything that I've ever imagined. And I'm just trying to walk it, walk it through.
47:12
Hey, I understand guys. And don't worry. I'll make them tell me off air what the second book's
47:16
going to be about. And then I'll drop it to you on the down below. You got to go get the first one.
47:20
And then we'll talk about the second one. Hey, absolutely. Guys, it's in the show notes. How
47:24
many times I have to tell you, stop what you're doing, pull over and buy the book. Okay, I told
47:28
you to do it. Now do it. Now I do want to talk about some topics that are a little bit outside of
47:32
the world. They're definitely outside of the world of basketball. So I've asked some other people
47:35
that are that are kind of in the same vein as you the same question. And I've really enjoyed the
47:39
answers that I've gotten to it. And it's this idea of tokenism. And so I believe Pastor Vody
47:44
Bockham was the first guy that kind of talked about this because a lot of people feel like he's
47:47
being tokenized inside of the evangelical world because he's the black guy preacher that thinks
47:52
like I do or something like that. That's how they bastardize in describing it. But for you,
47:57
obviously, after you decided to stand for the national anthem, a lot of people with American
48:03
flags and their bios and people that are very, very conservative, very, very much so right wing,
48:07
all of a sudden became supporters of you. And they wanted you to talk on their show and come to
48:11
their event and talk in front of their congregation or something like that. So do you ever feel like
48:16
you are being tokenized by Republicans or by conservatives because you are a black man that
48:21
happens to have viewpoints that aren't shared by a lot of your black brethren.
48:25
I don't think tokenize is the right word. I think, listen, when it comes to that side
48:32
of the aisle and obviously the Christian sphere, there are more things that I agree with and align
48:38
with than the other side. And so I think there is a form of commonality that goes beyond skin color
48:45
with the ideals in that sense. But what I've tried to do is stick to my message. So whether
48:52
I am at a Republican event, whether I'm at anything, my message is Jesus. My message is the love of
49:00
Jesus Christ is going to be the thing that changes this world if we're willing to show it. My goal
49:05
is to to win as many people as possible. And I think the only way to do that is to love the people
49:10
first. And so that's where I'm at. And that's what I've continued to kind of preach and give people
49:16
the courage and the boldness to stand up for their convictions and whether that's at a Republican
49:19
event, I haven't been I haven't been invited to any events on the other side. If I was, I would go
49:26
and I would share the same message. Hey, that's funny because I tell people all the time like,
49:30
hey, why don't you ever go on all these other shows? It's like, I go where I'm invited. Like,
49:33
I'm going to talk about, you know, the gospel and I'm going to talk about undaunted life and I'm
49:36
going to talk about everything we do where I'm invited to do so. And I'll even go on shows where
49:41
I know that they're going to try to like antagonize me or get me to say something crazy that they
49:45
can clip out later. Because if I'm not there to talk to the people that would want to do that
49:49
to me anyway, because they're not going to be hearing me, they're going to be hearing whatever
49:52
they want me to say, right? I want to get into this because we kind of alluded to it at the beginning
49:56
of the interview, but fatherlessness in general. So in the United States, I mean, back 50 years
50:01
ago, the, I think in the white community, it was 3% of kids were born, you know, in out of wedlock
50:07
families. And now it's 30%. For black kids, it was 25%. Now it's 75%. And I think currently,
50:13
half of all Latino children are born in a family where the mother and father are not there. They're
50:17
not married. And it's having a tremendously negative impact on all of our humanity as a
50:24
culture as Americans. And everybody likes to pick on on black culture as, you know, three out of five
50:29
or three out of four of all those kids are kind of born out of wedlock. But talk to me a little bit
50:33
about kind of what you've seen, because you're not a father, like, you know, that's not something
50:37
that you're dealing with now, but you did see your relationship with your dad. And just kind of what
50:41
what would you say? What would you say if you were a preacher or a consultant right now on
50:45
the fatherlessness epidemic that we're seeing in all racial groups in the United States?
50:50
Man, I would just say that men are needed. Fathers are needed and
50:54
Christ is needed at the end of the day. I feel like as your heart is changed and as you grow as a
51:01
man of God, you assume the responsibility and see the necessity to be a leader in your household
51:08
and to, you know, rid of your children in the way that would honor God. And so that's where my mindset
51:14
is at right now. And honestly, it probably wouldn't be there if, you know, at the time that I wasn't,
51:19
you know, a Christian yet. And so, so yeah, I just think when I look out into the world and I see all
51:25
of the, you know, the destruction of family and all the things that are going on, all I want to do
51:30
is be someone who upholds it and try to promote the message of upholding it so somebody else could
51:36
see the need of it and uphold it themselves. And so just to be a light and a beacon and an example
51:42
that it does it does still happen today. And that's a good thing when it does happen.
51:47
And I think the best thing, because I know I'm the type of guy that I'll, I'll stay up late at night
51:52
because I can't fall asleep because I'm worried about kids that don't have fathers. I'm worried
51:56
about babies that are being aborted in the womb. I'm worried about all these things that don't
51:58
directly affect me. And then sometimes that affects how I treat my two sons because dad's distracted
52:04
or dad's angry or dad's frustrated or something like that. And it's like, that's how I can affect
52:08
the next generation the best. Those are two arrows in my quiver that I can shoot into the future
52:13
and extend the love of Christ to other people. So I think that's a good thing for people to
52:17
remember as well. Another thing that I want to talk about, go ahead.
52:20
Me and my wife are both come from families that aren't together. But we have an obvious
52:29
commitment to Christ and a commitment to stay together and to rear children that way.
52:33
And so being able to rewrite the story of your life and what you've experienced or
52:39
anything like that is to me is the answer. And so we can pick on it and demean people for being
52:48
in that situation. But at the same time, we have to be ones that are an example to that ourselves.
52:52
Absolutely. That's a good word. So I want to talk about just race in America in general. And again,
52:58
I feel like the racial topic is kind of boring because people kind of have their tribes and
53:03
there's not there's not a whole lot of nuance to really dig into. But I've been reliably informed
53:08
Jonathan that America is the most racist country that's ever existed. And so in your opinion,
53:13
and I know that's kind of loaded. I know that's pretty loaded. But in your opinion,
53:17
is the United States of America a racist country?
53:20
No. And honestly, I think it's as easy as is leaving it there. You know, one of the things
53:28
that my pastor says all the time about us as individuals, he will say that we haven't done
53:33
everything right. But we haven't done everything wrong either. And honestly, that's how I see
53:38
America. You know, America hasn't done everything right. But at the end of the day, it hasn't done
53:43
everything wrong either. And there has been progress, there has been change. Are there still racist
53:47
people? Yes. You know, are there still racist things that happen every every single day? I may
53:51
take take take Buffalo. Yeah, you know, right now as tragic and terrible as it is. That doesn't
53:57
account for the majority of people or I'm not going to, you know, place that on all white people. It's
54:02
one individual that went down that road and that needs God. But whatever. And so I think
54:12
just the simple answer is no. And I would be up for defending that. And I think kind of
54:17
to a degree, we have to kind of just throw that away when people do, you know, say those things
54:24
or affirm those things like to not give it to not give it breath.
54:29
It's hard not to give a breath. It's hard when you want to defend. And like, if you're ever
54:33
put in a position where you're having to defend everyone that has the same level of melanin as you,
54:38
you're already losing regardless of the topic. Because you know who I don't speak for? White
54:42
people. I definitely don't speak for all white people. I can barely speak just for my the white
54:47
people that live in my house with me, right? Because these are all different people. Like,
54:50
they have their own way of thinking and my little boys are going to have their own personalities
54:54
and their own way of seeing the world. But Jonathan, my understanding of history and the truth of the
54:59
Bible that I think anything short of Jesus's triumphant return and a new earth, that's the only
55:05
thing that will solve the race issue in the world, much less in America. But that is something that
55:10
we as gospel believe in Christians, we have to be able to speak into culture about racial issues
55:15
because it comes up in culture. And that becomes a stumbling block for people that think that
55:20
people like me think Jesus was a white guy and that I only worship Jesus because of white supremacy
55:25
or patriarchy or something like that. So when you hear people that say some of these things that are
55:29
kind of the bumper sticker back of the t-shirt slogans about race in America, how do you in a
55:34
gospel centered way? How would you train me and everybody else to speak into those topics regardless
55:39
of what you look like? Well, I mean, I think for starters, you know, speaking into it as well, but
55:45
I think the most simple way and the most necessary way is to be an example of it. So I mean, you take
55:52
the story of the Good Samaritan and you have the Samaritan that was ultimately the one who went and
55:59
helped the person who was, you know, obviously down and left the money and all those different
56:03
things. So it's one thing to speak about it. But I think what is really worthwhile is to be the one
56:08
that is about it. And love is an action word. And if, and you're talking about race and the divide
56:15
that's going to continue on forever because ultimately the Satan is the prince of the power in the
56:20
air and this world is going to continue to go in the direction that it's going. But the people who
56:24
have the understanding of Christians and people who understand that in order to in order to see
56:29
real change happen, we are going to have to love people that look different than us, that are
56:33
different than us that have wrongness in some certain way. And Jesus said it, you have to love
56:37
your enemies. You have to pray for those who despitefully use you. And to me, if us as Christians are
56:42
willing to be an example of that love and light to the world, then we could see we could see real
56:48
change. But the world is going to continue to be the world. The race war divide is going to continue
56:53
to be spewed and elevated and pushed in the forefront of everyone's mind. But the people who have
56:59
understanding can be effective agents of change if they're willing to do it rather than say it.
57:05
Absolutely. Well, hey, we're going to take you to the last segment of the show here because I like
57:09
to do something to some of some of my interviews. And it's a segment called, what would you say
57:13
to someone that said? So I'm going to say, what would you say to someone that said? And then I'm
57:17
going to fill in the blank. But this is lightning round. Okay, you have 30 seconds maximum to respond
57:23
to each one of these. Okay. So if you want to get into a big long soliloquy about it, I'm going
57:28
to cut you off. You got 30 seconds max lightning round. So yeah, for it. Yep. All right, let's go.
57:33
First one here. What would you say to someone that said, I could beat you one on one?
57:38
I wouldn't even respond. You wouldn't even respond. Somebody rolls a ball to you. You wouldn't just
57:43
say, okay, let me get warm up. If they're rolling a ball to me, let's go. I'll spot you. We're going
57:48
to 11. I just tweeted somebody. I think it was dad's side that that's bottom 10 points if we
57:53
played to 11. Hey, I will just say, if you and I ever meet, which I hope that happens someday,
57:59
I will have a ball with me and I will roll it to you. And I will tell you, my game consists of two
58:03
things. Hey, Jonathan, you listen here. It's going to it's going to be rebounds and flagrant
58:09
fouls. Those are my two best parts of my basketball game. So you just need to watch out. I'm just
58:14
saying, just saying one of these days, we're going to be in the same gym. We'll figure it out.
58:17
I will not be easy on it. I would not expect you to. Come on now. All right. Next one here.
58:22
What would you say to someone that said, Jonathan Isaac is an uncle Tom?
58:28
Again, I wouldn't I wouldn't respond. Honestly, I would I try my best to live my life
58:34
in the way that I see fit. And I don't care, you know, honestly, what other people have to say.
58:39
I know what I believe and I know what I'm standing for. And I'm going to continue to do it.
58:42
That's a strong stance. All right. Next one here. What would you say to someone that said,
58:46
God doesn't exist? I would say, look at my life. And I would say, read the book. Someone says,
58:52
God doesn't exist. I said, read, read why I stand. Absolutely. Next one here. What would you say to
58:57
someone that said, the only way to fix historical injustice is to create injustice today?
59:02
I would say that doesn't make sense. I would I would say what was Martin Luther King's quote
59:11
in injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
59:14
Yeah. Unless you're Ibram X Kennedy and then you then you think that that's the way that we're
59:19
supposed to comport ourselves in modern society. All right. Next one here. What would you say to
59:22
someone that said, I'm glad Jonathan Isaac got hurt. I wouldn't respond. I keep coming up with
59:29
things that you're giving me the right answer. The right answer is to not respond. But I get it.
59:33
I should have wrote better questions. Come on, Kyle. You know, it's kind of a thought. You know,
59:37
the Jesus said this all the time. He would say like, you know, when you do something like,
59:42
you have your reward and full already as like, if you're someone, you know, who would say something
59:48
like that, the best thing that I could do is pray for you. And you know, you have your reward already
59:52
and go, you know, have a great life. This is a masterclass and how to bite your tongue, gentlemen.
59:58
All right. Next few here and then we'll get you out of here. What would you say to someone that said,
1:00:02
all white people are oppressors? I would say have to respond. You have to. I have to. I mean,
1:00:08
I mean, I would just disagree. I would just disagree. I mean, it, you know, people are
1:00:13
individuals. And you know, I've had great white friends in my life who has helped me
1:00:17
tremendously and Bora was a white man. And he let me stay at his house all the time and fed me
1:00:23
and all these different things. And so no, it's, it's, it's, it's idiotic. It's crazy. It's,
1:00:27
it's the same thing as, you know, people who get upset about people making [inaudible] generalizations
1:00:32
about black people. It's the exact same thing. You're exactly right. Okay, a couple more left.
1:00:37
What would you say to someone that said, my kid wants to get better at basketball, but I don't know
1:00:41
how to help them? You don't know how to help them. I mean, there's, there's a ton of camps
1:00:47
on. I think, I think just put a ball in his hand. I think the biggest thing is just being able to
1:00:51
handle the ball. Put them on a hoop and just let them play. We played sundown, sun up to sundown
1:00:57
all the time every day when we were younger. We were outside just hooping. And so I would, I would
1:01:02
give that, that antidote. All right, last question. Here we go. What would you say to someone that said,
1:01:07
God is in control? I would say right on, brother. Absolutely. Amen. Amen. And amen. But hey, Jonathan,
1:01:13
we have talked about a lot of stuff here, but we didn't give all the spoilers away from the
1:01:17
book. So we're still going to have quite a few guys that can go and make sure they pick that up.
1:01:20
But for now, that is all for me. Is there anything else you want to get off your chest?
1:01:24
Yeah, I just want to reaffirm that y'all go get your book. You can head to Amazon. I know you said
1:01:28
you're going to put it in, and all the links and stuff. I got one right here just to show you.
1:01:32
Check it out. I appreciate it. And I just can't wait to hear all of the stories about, you know,
1:01:36
what people think. Let's keep it number one on Amazon, guys. Jonathan Isaac, thank you so much
1:01:41
for coming on undaunted life of man's podcast. Appreciate it. Thank you, man.
1:01:45
There you go, guys. I hope you enjoyed my interview with Jonathan Isaac. But before we let you go,
1:01:48
we are going to do a quick resilience boost at undaunted life. Our mission is equipping men to
1:01:52
push back darkness with content that for just spiritual, mental and physical resilience. So I've
1:01:56
got two links for you today. The first one is to the book, Why I Stand. You can pick it up today on
1:02:00
Amazon. And I've also got a link to Jonathan's Instagram. All right, guys. Thanks so much for
1:02:04
listening to the show. We do appreciate it. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe,
1:02:07
rate and leave us a positive five star view. If you want to come speak live at your event or on
1:02:11
your podcast to shoot me an email to info@undaunted.life. That's i n f o @undaunted.life. Follow us on
1:02:17
Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else, including how to
1:02:20
donate to keep more content like this coming your way. Just go to www.undaunted.life. And as always,
1:02:26
we want to thank the band August Burns read for allowing us to use their music for our content.
1:02:29
The music on this podcast is our song, Cutting the Ties, which is off their 10th anniversary
1:02:33
re-recording of their album Leveler. The links are in the description. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
1:02:38
Remember, keep pushing back darkness. Keep forging spiritual mental and physical resilience. Keep
1:02:45
seeking the lion of Judah.
1:03:15
[Music]