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This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
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I'm your host Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.
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All right guys, we've got a special return guest of the podcast.
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His name is John Tyson.
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He is a pastor, church planner and author.
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He is the lead pastor of the church of the city in New York City and he's the author
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of the intentional father, which you've heard me talk about on the show a lot in what we
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talked about on episode 282 of this podcast with John and then his new book out now called
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fighting shadows.
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And so we're going to be talking about this book a lot today.
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And if you recognize the name John Tyson's because he was just on the show recently because
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he was there out doing saturated at a church of 11 22.
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And so he's been on the show a lot lately and I'm going to see him again here soon for the
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men's conference out there, so it's going to be a lot of fun.
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But in this particular podcast, we talked about New York City a little bit.
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So we talked about the fact that he's lived in New York City for 20 years.
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He's speaking on the fact that there's things happening in New York City from a Christian
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standpoint and people following and accepting Christ to an insane, just an insane degree,
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something that he hasn't experienced in his two decades there.
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And kind of what he thinks that is like, what do you think is thinks is behind that?
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But then we just get into this over, you know, overarching conversation about men.
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What is this angst that we see in the modern man?
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What is that kind of low buzzing behind the eyes of men where they're just leading as
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Henry David Thoreau says this life of quiet desperation?
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And then we kind of talk about where we're at in our cultural moment, how manhood is viewed,
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how people talk about people that think manhood should not be taken out.
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That manhood inherently is not toxic.
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We talk about the influence in feminism in terms of how we do there.
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But then also we talk about the church.
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Okay.
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What has the church done?
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Well, but also what has the church done wrong?
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I mean, spoiler alert, discipleship has been done very, very poorly, modeling the fullness
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of Christ.
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Lamb and Lion, grace and truth is something the church has not done well.
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But John's very good about, hey, let's not just lament what the church has done wrong.
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Let's give the church some assets here so that we can start to turn the ship just a little
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bit.
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But we also talked about how men, you know, if they're not doing well and how they respond,
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you know, men will overcompensate, some men will shut down, what a lot of men are doing
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now, they're just medicating, they're just escaping.
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But then we talked about the foxhole concept, like what it means to not only be discipling
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people, but to be discipled by somebody else.
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And then also to have a group of guys that you can literally just go through life and
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go to war with as it were and what it feels like for a man when he knows he's got those
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types of men that he can rely on.
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I mean, you've heard me talk about this a lot, but I really like how John talks about it.
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And then we just talked about, you know, overall, what we can do, we talked about some of the
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things that he's got coming up.
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So it's very interesting, especially if you've got any Gen Z men in your life or you are a
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Gen Z man and he wrapped the show in a way that was rather unique.
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So you should stick around to the ending to check that out as well.
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But guys, I always love when I get an opportunity to talk with John and I love when he can serve
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you guys that are in this audience.
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So without further ado, let's get into it.
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John Tyson is great to see you again.
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But the last time I saw you, we were both in a city that had a beach, which is not a great
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place for me because I hide from the sun because the sun is my enemy.
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But now you're back in New York City.
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I mean, gross.
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Like who wants to live there?
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Come on, John.
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This is the greatest city on Earth, mate.
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If we last another thousand years, people will still be talking about the greatness of
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this city.
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Well, if we talk about how dirty it is in the number of rats, you have to step over
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on the way to your $7,000 a month, 400 square foot apartment, you know, that kind of thing,
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right?
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Well, I live in a 478 square foot apartment and it's only $3,600 a month.
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Got it.
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No windows though.
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And it is underground.
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So guys, New York City, greatest city on the planet, but I will say this peek behind the
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curtain.
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We're recording this the day after the New York Yankees have been eliminated from the
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playoffs.
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And I just got to say, no one's sad about it.
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Everybody's pumped.
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Now I will say Aaron judge seems like a stand up cat.
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I mean, he seems awesome.
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It just, he's, he can't be on the evil empire.
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We got to get him on another team, John.
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I think that's what they call jealousy, the medic rival.
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No, I don't think so.
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I think it's just that I have, you know, it's kind of like, I look at pinstripes and I just
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want to vomit.
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It's kind of something like that.
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So it's more like a gag reflex kind of a thing.
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But yeah, if you want to go better to be better, better to be hated than ignored.
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I guess that's true.
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I guess that's true.
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Well, hey, well, you're not actually from New York City.
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Everybody knows at this point, you're from Australia.
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What's kind of the New York Yankees of like Australian sports where everyone's a fan
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of them.
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Everyone just buys their hat and supports them for no reason.
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But then like there's a whole bunch of people that hate them too.
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Is there like a like a corollary there?
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I can't think of that single team.
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If you were to talk about the local football team where I was from, the Adelaide Crows,
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they are a well-hated team.
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They're doing really well.
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They were doing really well.
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So yeah, that'd probably be it.
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There's no exact, there's no one with the dominance of the Yankees, mate.
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This is a very fair conversation because last Saturday I was in Boston preaching and I was
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there as they had just lost to New York.
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So goes around and comes around, mate.
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Yeah, it certainly comes around.
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I will say I've never met a more entitled bunch other than Southern Baptist, maybe than
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Yankees fans.
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I mean, they feel like they are entitled to that World Series Championship every single
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year.
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And I just don't quite understand it.
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I'm enjoying the drought.
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I'll be honest.
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Okay.
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Well, we'll let it.
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We'll let it ride.
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We'll let it ride.
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We're going to talk baseball even though we can wax poetic about that for the rest of
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the day.
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You released a new book this year.
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It's called Fighting Shadows.
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I got it right here.
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Guys, I talked about it in the introduction.
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And so we're going to be getting into a lot of the things from the book.
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We're going to use it as a scaffolding for our discussion today.
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But let's start 30,000 foot view.
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Why this book?
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Why now?
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Why you?
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Why write it with a co-author?
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So I wrote it with a co-author.
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I run a ministry called Forming Men, and it is written with the co-founder of that ministry.
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There's a guy named Jefferson Bethke.
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He has done a ton of stuff sort of in the fatherhood family space.
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We were getting a ton of traction with Forming Men.
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And we kept having people say, you know, what are you, when are you going to put a book
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out about this?
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Or, where can I get this sort of distilled?
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We're doing a ton of conferences and events.
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So I wrote that with a guy that I run a bunch of my stuff with.
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So that's why I have a co-author on that.
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We wrote it, man, because, well, to take a half step back, I was on your podcast talking
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about the book, The Intentional Father.
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That was all about the primal path.
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That was how I raised my son update.
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My son's 25.
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He's married.
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He's doing great.
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He's building a life.
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He's getting on with it.
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So he's doing really well.
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That is basically about how to build a five year pathway, not a camping event, not a
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one off event, like a five year thorough rite of passage journey to help form your boy
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into manhood in a godly, holistic manner.
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So many dads went through that and they said, I wish someone had done this for me.
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Where's that book that does that for me?
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So ultimately, that's what led us to starting Forming Men, which is basically to fill in
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the gaps of male formation, you didn't get growing up, sort of fix the foundations of
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your life, heal your heart, give your vision, send you out.
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And so this book was an extension of that.
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So we wrote it because men have been struggling, mate.
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They've lost their way in modern culture.
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And the traditional maps, the traditional roles all seem to have been pushed back in
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a race.
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Again, it's changed.
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I think that came out over a year ago when we originally put it out quite a lot has changed
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since then.
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Oh, good.
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Well, I don't think I played a huge role in that, but I do like to think that the guys
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who've been faithful in men's ministry have contributed to this sort of the turnaround
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of what we see are men coming back.
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So part of it, I would say we wrote it because men desperately need to figure out the lies
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that are holding them back so they can be the men that God wants them to be.
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And it's harder work than it seems.
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When there seems to be this undercurrent, John of, and there's a lot of things that perhaps
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we'll be able to open it up as we get into the contents of the book.
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But you hear these things now in the last few months, especially Gen Z boys are flocking
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to church and have never been more conservative.
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Gen Z girls are nowhere near the church and they've never been more liberal.
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And now we're trying to figure out how in the world are these people going to get together.
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And I don't mean like hookup culture, I mean like marriage and matrimony and procreation.
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But there's, there's kind of this, I don't know exactly how to describe it, maybe this
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underlying like buzz in the background, it's kind of the angst of the modern men.
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And I think that Henry David Thoreau quote that you, you talked about in the book, you
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lose today the longer quote, but it's the, the massive men lead lives of quiet desperation.
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Man, you could see it in guys eyes, right?
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You can see it when you're walking through the store or at work or whatever your setting
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is.
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It's that low dull, incessant buzz of angst in the man that, that's around us.
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We live in a world that feels like it was no longer designed for men.
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And again, I don't mean that the world is not predominantly run by men.
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Of course men still exert a tiny handful of men exert tremendous power and control over
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the world, but all of the traditional gifts of men that men bring to the table seem to
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have been weaponized against them.
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And so if they do something, they get judged, if they don't do anything, they get judged.
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And so so many men are just numbing out going, what do I do with my strength, my vision,
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my passion, my drive, my energy.
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And what they're told is do nothing shut up, you've had your turn, sit back.
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So it's good to see the tide turning on that.
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But I think a lot of guys don't know how to take their latent, yeah, the latent things
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they have as a man and reflected in the world at large.
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That's why churches that create space for men to be men are a gift.
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And that's why we need stuff like you're working on because there's very few spaces
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for male formation in the modern world, even the scouts, what we got rid of the boy scouts.
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And so where are these places where men can get together and process the things they're
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feeling, wake their hearts up, get in touch with the pain, activate the ambition, get a
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vision to build their lives, it's a great opportunity for the church.
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And I think we've got something to offer those guys that were just sort of zoned out, you
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know.
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Well, I think you're right.
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And before we get to the church, I want to kind of key in on the zone out part because
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there's a, there's a very apropos paragraph early in the book.
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I think it's in the introduction.
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I so want to read it here.
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And then there are the cultural issues.
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Many today talk about the need to get rid of toxic masculinity, but it seems like what
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they are really trying to do is to get rid of masculinity itself.
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We live in a world where people can't talk about men and masculinity without rolling
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their eyes.
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And yet gender fluid people are held up as heroes of authenticity.
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We live in a world where you are told being a man is just a social construct.
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And anyone who believes otherwise is an oppressive bigot.
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We live in a world where masculine strength is dismissed as patriarchy.
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Men today are supposed to be calm, placid, agreeable, nice, apologetic and remorseful.
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We are supposed to sit back, shut up and hand things over because we have already had our
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turn.
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We talked about a lot of that, but a little bit later in the same section of the book,
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we talked about how men respond.
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And there's kind of three ways, you know, there's the words that you would use and then
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the words that I would use.
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So number one is overcompensate.
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I just say like aggro, everything's aggro, everything's way over the top.
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It's beef jerky and blood dripping from your mouth.
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It's that kind of thing.
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And then the second is shut down or wussy.
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There's another word that could be inserted there.
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So they're just completely shutting down.
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And the third is to medicate, which is that escapism, John, that you've already alluded
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to.
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I don't know which one's more nefarious.
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If I'm being honest, I know which one I would prefer, but it's like, I can't do much with
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a limp noodle.
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Like these people that are just medicated, they've, what have they've done?
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They've just, they've, they've, whether it's chemical or whether it's their hobby, video
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games, fancy football, they've just allowed themselves to be completely medicated almost
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out of the gene pool, John.
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One of the, I don't know if we'll get to it or not, but I, there's one verse in here that,
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that really changed my mind.
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I preach it every chance I get.
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And I think it's, it's an overlooked verse.
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It's Proverbs 31.
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So we're now, everyone thinks the Proverbs 31, they think of the Proverbs 31 woman.
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But Proverbs 31 starts by talking about the Proverbs 31 man.
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And in the passage, it says, do not give you a strength to women, you're vigor to those
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who ruin kings.
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And most commentators believe that this is a warning written against what King Solomon
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did at the end of his life at the end of King Solomon's life.
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He ended up marrying a bunch of women that God taught him not to, that led his heart
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astray.
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And instead of preparing for a generational transfer, he went and built high places to
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the gods of his wives that became a snare for generations to come.
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So all of the vigor and the energy that should have gone to blessing the next generation
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was diluted into idolatry that became a stumbling block.
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The simple point is every man has a measure of vigor and energy given by God that goes
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somewhere.
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And if it gets diluted down to the, yeah, those fantasy pursuits, all your energy is
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on gaming, all of your energy is on sports betting, all of your energy is on your hobby.
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And life demands things from you, sacrificial love, care, hard work, building, hard conversations.
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You have nothing left to give because you've burned your adrenal glands out and you're
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a dopamine addict on trivialities.
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And that's one of the great things men have to learn to do in the world today is to conserve
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the potency, the vigor is how the Bible puts it and deploy it towards redemptive ends instead
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of trivial ends.
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And so yeah, you want to, every man has this is by nature, it's from God and it's wired
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into our biology, stewarding that properly is one of the great tasks of discipleship.
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It is very, very hard to get the redeployment away from those addictive mechanisms into real
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work.
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You know this, I mean, to see us Lewis talked about this in why masturbation was wrong.
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He said, because he says that you have, he could have the invisible harem and that invisible
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harem never demands anything from you.
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But in real life, if you want to get married and have sex and build a family, your wife
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is going to draw on your capacities, a man to help build and serve.
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And so in order to, in the best sense of the word, love a woman and enjoy a woman, it demands
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sacrifice and real life work porn demands nothing, nothing.
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So again, helping, we've got to give men a vision of the beauty of having strength, energy
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and vigor as a man.
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It's a sacred stewardship and you've got to help begin to point them to the real world
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rewards that you get, the joyful pursuit of sacrificial responsibility.
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I've talked before, my definition of masculinity is the joyful pursuit of sacrificial responsibility.
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Men are at their best.
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When they're not just, I accept this, but when they're like, I want this, let me sacrifice
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to build for others.
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That's a man of these best.
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So get, he caught up a limp noodle, whatever, whatever you call it, you've got to, you've
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got to, that man was not wired by God to be like that.
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So helping him recover the vision of who he could be in a godly way, cultivate that
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and then redeploy that vigor and that energy is one of the core tasks of discipling men
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today.
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Okay.
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So redeployment discipleship.
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I want to get there.
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I like, I typically run to the solution side to where it's like, okay, we've defined the
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issue.
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Okay, let's fix it.
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But I do think we need to even spend a little bit more time on the diagnosis of how we got
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here.
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Because you mentioned this is later on in the book, but women surveyed say they hate how
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apathetic men are in this, this lament amongst women, where are all the good men and all
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these different things, it's like, you know, I just want to like, you know, tap them on
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the forehand and be like, Hey, y'all aided in this, by the way, because you gave either
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you're full-throated or your tacit approval to each wave of feminism.
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So we're in fourth wave feminism now, which is really funny because, you know, we can't
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exactly know what a man or a woman is, but first wave is, you know, suffrage and eagle
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rights.
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Second wave is I'm just going to have sex and sexual liberty.
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And I have the right to be as equally un-pregnant as a man does.
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And then third wave feminism is, you know what, actually we're better than men.
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We don't actually need men are worthless.
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We can do everything that they can do.
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And at each step of the way, you've had the ones that, you know, had armpit hair and they
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were burning their bras, that was, you know, the full-throated support of these movements.
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But then there were all the people that just made these little agreements, John, along the
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way, as they've been peppered by culture and peppered by social media to basically believe
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those things, but not scream it from the sidewalk while wearing a pussy hat.
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And so I think feminism and women in general, they have such a tremendous value that they
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can give to men, especially if they say things to build them up, right?
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It's such a tremendous value to a man.
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But goodness gracious, they've aided in where we're at at this point.
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I think in many ways, that's true.
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I'm not sure that every woman has aided that.
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I still, I still find men, so I've got a daughter who is 22.
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You know what she wants?
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A freaking strong, godly man.
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Let's go.
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Yeah, she wants an old school.
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She wants a man with a good job who can provide, who's working, who's got his crap together,
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who will lay down his life for her.
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I think there's a lot of women who actually ache for that.
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But in spite of all of that, I will say this.
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So let's use Taylor Swift as an example.
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So a few years ago, Taylor Swift was all like, I think it was when Vice President Vance
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was talking about single cat ladies and Taylor Swift was like, well, I'm a single cat lady
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and I'm going to rally all the single cat ladies.
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Give it a couple of years.
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You've got a jacked, rich football player on his knees with a big old diamond ring.
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And she's just acting like a teenage girl mate.
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And I say that not to put it down.
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I say that to say, I think that when men actually act the way that they are meant to, even the
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most cynical people that I culturally go, now that's a man and for that's what I want.
19:08
I actually want that.
19:09
So I'm a, you know, Mark Badison has this little phrase he uses, which is critique by
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creating.
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And I love that vision.
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Our, you know, my vision is to help just produce better men and say, hey, I'm going
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to do a bet with you secular culture.
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You produce men in your image and I'll produce men in Jesus image and I'll see you in 10 years
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and we'll see who's got what.
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That's my response.
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So I think yeah, I don't want to bash.
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I think by the way, is it, is it true that feminism was originally helped funded by the
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CIA?
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Oh boy, don't send me down that rabbit hole, John, goodness gracious alive.
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Do you know how much time you just wasted for the rest of my audience that immediately
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paused this and immediately went to chat, GBT or Google to figure that out?
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It.
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Listen, I, listen, I, a, a strong, again, so Proverbs 31 opens with the Proverbs 31 man,
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which is a man who's joining is any, by the way, what does it say he should do with his
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vigor?
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He's like, don't get wasted on beer.
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What does he say?
20:15
Speak up for the oppressed judge rightly with the world is aching for men stewing their
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energy for righteous rule and leadership.
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But then the Proverbs 31 woman, she's a freaking savage mates, amazing.
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She's, she's buying land.
20:31
She's getting her husband's reputation at the city gates.
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She's working.
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This is not a passive docile compliant woman.
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This is a lioness who is building a life that matches the strength of a godly man.
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So again, yes, I think there's a lot of Godless ideologies that have been tremendously damaging.
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I think when they sneak into the church, it's terrible.
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But again, like I'd say, you don't want alpha males and then just passive women.
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You want strong, godly women using their full capacity and their gifts in a compliment,
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in a complimentary manner to strong men and when, when you get sons and daughters who
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become mothers and fathers who model that vision to the world, the world just thrives
21:16
under their leadership.
21:17
So I don't know how off topic that was.
21:20
We brought the CIA, the CIA up, but I want to see godly men use their strength and, and
21:26
find women who bring the best out on them.
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Well, to be honest, when I wrote the question, I definitely didn't think the CIA or Taylor
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Swift were going to come up.
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I do want to double down on that, let's talk about the Taylor Swift thing because conservatives
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love to lament her impact on culture.
21:39
I think there might be some inherent jealousy there and the, and the impact she can have
21:42
with the tweet versus what somebody's entire year is spent, you know, writing or recording.
21:46
And so all the, all the things I think that's fair.
21:49
But the moment she said I do to Travis Kelsey, I was like, this is spectacular.
21:55
This is amazing.
21:56
Cause you know what I hope for them.
21:58
I hope that they were announced any of their previous relationships and how they performed
22:02
in those relationships, whether abusive Lee or exploitative Lee or any of those types
22:06
of things.
22:07
I hope they get married.
22:08
I hope they have a gang of kids.
22:09
I hope Taylor Swift starts making sourdough.
22:11
I hope all of those things because the number of girls that are paying attention to everything
22:17
she says or does or wears, if all of a sudden, and you know, whether her music is changed
22:22
or whatever, I don't necessarily care about any of that.
22:25
But if she starts talking about the virtues of being like a, a, a help mate for her husband
22:31
somehow, if, if they get saved by the blood of the lamb and become Christians and raise
22:35
themselves in a Christian household and, and hold to conservative values while maybe not
22:39
trumpeting them publicly, man, that's such a good thing.
22:42
Like all of us should be rooting for Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey to be married until
22:48
rapture or death.
22:49
Do they part?
22:50
You know, that, that's, that's kind of the way I look at it because of the tremendous
22:53
cultural impact that I could have.
22:54
Amen.
22:55
I agree.
22:56
I think your last album, I listened to like 40 seconds of one of the songs, life of a
23:01
showgirl.
23:03
It does seem to be that all of that illusion of whatever has died.
23:08
And it feels like she's genuinely met a, a man who pursued her, went after her, was able
23:15
to win her heart and they're building something that I genuinely, I wish them all the best
23:19
man.
23:20
I hope they have a great life and I, and I hope they go the distance.
23:22
Hey, guys.
23:23
Real quick.
23:24
So you're there.
23:25
You're in a small town.
23:26
You bite it over to someone's house for dinner.
23:27
You walk through the kitchen and you get that smell, the smell of home cooking.
23:31
You go to the back porch where they're grilling or smoking meat and you get that smell.
23:35
And then you get the taste and you know exactly what I'm talking about, guys, it tastes incredible.
23:40
The flavors are big and bold.
23:43
It feels like home and it feels like happiness, right?
23:45
Well, you try to pull that same thing off at your house, but all you have in your cabinet
23:49
are some random seasonings from the store, right?
23:52
And many of these big companies just make bland blends and we all know this by now.
23:57
Blanned blends lead to bland food and bland food leads to a bad food experience.
24:03
And I don't want you guys to have any bad food experiences.
24:06
That's why I want to remind you about my friends at G's Seasoning.
24:09
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24:14
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24:15
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24:19
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24:21
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24:25
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24:26
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24:30
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24:31
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24:34
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24:39
So it's a classic seasoning duo, right?
24:42
But G's has leveled it up.
24:43
So G's salt and pepper blend uses two different grains of top shelf flake salt and two different
24:49
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24:55
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24:59
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25:03
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25:08
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25:10
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25:29
Well let's talk about the church because we've mentioned discipleship a few times already
25:32
because there's a great quote from the book and then we need to get into the church's
25:36
role in all this.
25:38
And what about the church?
25:39
Unfortunately, much of what is taught at church about masculinity is so theoretical that
25:43
it doesn't seem to work in real life.
25:45
There are a multitude of expectations we simply cannot live up to.
25:49
We are supposed to be leaders and servants, strong and sensitive, healthy and whole.
25:54
We are meant to be emotionally available, sexually restrained, biblically literate and
25:58
theologically informed, but in the absence of effective mentors and models, not to mention
26:04
the lack of margin to really work on ourselves, we just drift to the edge, out of the light,
26:09
out of the pressure and into the shadows where the expectations are low.
26:13
We've already mentioned before on this interview, John, about the low expectations of men.
26:17
And it's not bad whenever they reach those low expectations.
26:21
When they reach low expectations, but we set them too low to begin with, it's about the
26:25
starting line, not necessarily where they finish.
26:27
But the church has a discipleship problem.
26:30
And I'm not really coming up with anything crazy here.
26:34
I think that's been mentioned in a myriad of contexts that discipleship is lacking in
26:39
the modern day church, especially in the West, but you're exactly right and spot on as it
26:44
pertains to men, we're looking around for someone to model after.
26:48
And then you'll have Christian men, John, that will be enticed by someone like Andrew
26:53
Tate or enticed by somebody that's got more of a big sea conservative focus as opposed
26:59
to a big sea Christian focus and motive.
27:02
And that that's been very difficult, but I don't exactly know how to fix it in a large
27:08
macro sense.
27:09
But I know how to fix it in a individual dyadic sense when I'm talking to one guy and I'm
27:13
like, Hey, you need to be pouring in somebody that's younger than you in the faith and you
27:18
need to have someone pouring into you that's older than you in the faith.
27:21
That's not how many years you've been a Christian is how many hours.
27:23
So you need kind of that dynamic, but how can the big capital see church start to, you
27:28
know, shift this a little bit?
27:30
Well, you know, I don't want to disappoint everybody who's just hoping that I can fix
27:35
that with a quick little answer here on the podcast, mate.
27:38
So let's just go back to the person of Jesus and the principles of Jesus.
27:42
So the first thing I want to say is we have to preach Jesus again.
27:46
Amen.
27:47
We have to, we have to preach Jesus.
27:48
We have to preach Jesus in the kingdom of God.
27:50
That is the central message of the New Testament.
27:52
Jesus is the greatest man who's ever lived.
27:55
Jesus knew when to throw a table over an anger and Jesus knew, knew when to weep when
28:00
his friend died.
28:02
Jesus created an atmosphere that was so safe for women that the most shamed women and
28:09
judged women went to his feet and washed his feet with their hair and tears.
28:17
So again, I tell guys all the time, I promise you, Jesus is not masturbating looking at
28:22
misogynistic porn.
28:23
Jesus is creating an atmosphere where women who are used in porn find safety at his feet.
28:30
So we've got to look at the person of Jesus, how did Jesus treat women?
28:33
How did Jesus make disciples?
28:34
How did Jesus confront hypocrisy?
28:36
How did Jesus deal with political leaders?
28:38
How did Jesus interact with the people who misunderstood his mission?
28:42
How did Jesus walk with a father?
28:44
We have to put the person of Jesus up.
28:46
Jesus is not a Bible concept.
28:49
Jesus is not a theology.
28:52
Jesus is the greatest man who's ever lived.
28:54
And we've got to hold the whole of Christ up.
28:57
So part of that means we need to get back to the gospels.
29:00
I'm not just a red-leader person.
29:01
I'm the whole Bible, the whole council.
29:03
But we're so under doing Jesus.
29:06
You've got to read the gospels in one sitting.
29:09
You've got to read a whole chunks of the scripture to really understand who Jesus is, what his
29:14
mission is.
29:15
Jesus says things like, "I did not come to bring peace but a sword.
29:20
I came to," listen to this, "I came to set fire to the earth.
29:26
And how I wish it was already kindled."
29:28
You've got to put all of that in place and you've got to hold Jesus up and say to men,
29:33
your destiny is to be conformed to the image of this man.
29:39
We don't do that enough.
29:40
We do snippets of the gospels.
29:42
We do snippets of Jesus.
29:44
We do seed substitute, which is all this stuff about Jesus, but we're not getting men face
29:50
to face with the person of Jesus.
29:51
The number one, you've got to hold the person of Jesus up as the greatest man who's ever
29:54
lived who you're going to be a disciple of.
29:57
Number two, I think you go faster by going slower.
30:00
I don't know.
30:01
So again, the future, even with AI and with all of our digital technology, the future
30:06
is the best in-person discipleship and the best digital resources.
30:12
It's both at the same time.
30:14
If Jesus's strategy was find 12 men and give them everything you have and be patient when
30:21
they suck, we're probably not going to improve on that strategy.
30:26
I would simply say, I don't think the typical person has been taught how to be a disciple
30:31
and disciple others.
30:33
So my honest advice is get two or three guys, give them everything you've got.
30:38
Tell them why you've done that and then challenge them while you're doing that for them to do
30:43
that for two or three other guys.
30:45
I honestly don't know a better way than that.
30:50
Kill it, follow me as I follow Christ, live a life worthy of imitation, gather your guys
30:56
that you're investing in and you're pouring into and then just commit to multiplying that
31:00
over time.
31:01
That's so simple, but it is so untried, mate.
31:06
So few people do that.
31:07
Everyone says, we know how to do it, but no one knows how to do that and almost nobody
31:12
does that.
31:14
And if a group of men would do that, we could probably sort this out in about six years.
31:19
And I think you hit on so many things there.
31:21
We can spend the entire time talking just about that.
31:23
But I think you're hitting on something to where it's, we love to philosophize about
31:26
the problem.
31:27
It's kind of like one of the best pieces of management advice I ever heard was when
31:31
a subordinate comes to you with a complaint, the question you asked back is don't just
31:38
oppose, but propose.
31:40
So you've given me the opposition now.
31:42
What is your proposition?
31:43
Right?
31:44
And if they don't have anything, send them back to their cubicle and they can find a solution
31:48
to the problem.
31:49
It's like, don't bring me problems.
31:51
Bring me solutions.
31:52
But I want to circle all the way back to what you're talking about about, you know, Jesus,
31:55
giving people the full, the fullness of Jesus, because this goes back John to my early 20s.
32:00
You know, I became a Christian as a 15 year old, trying to figure out what it means to
32:03
be a man while simultaneously figuring out what it means to be a Christian man.
32:06
I came to the decision that those just weren't the same thing and they couldn't be the same
32:10
thing.
32:11
Manly men would be over here doing man stuff, godly men are over here touching you while
32:14
they talk to you and praying for you and doing all that kind of stuff.
32:16
And then I get into my mid 20s and I start reading the gospels, John in bigger chunks
32:20
and reading it for myself.
32:21
And I'm like, dad, go at this Middle Eastern Jewish construction worker seemed pretty rough.
32:25
Like this seems like a guy I would love to follow.
32:28
But the image I had in my head, John was of this, I always could say this kind of wispy
32:32
haired Danish looking guy somehow that's got these soft features and he's only lamb.
32:37
He's only grace and there was no lion.
32:39
There was no truth.
32:40
There was no fire.
32:41
There was no sword.
32:43
And so I became burdened for tough guys that they might miss out on who Christ actually
32:47
was because of who they thought he was culturally or looking at some of his followers and being
32:52
like, yeah, that's not my aspirational identity.
32:55
But the Joby said this in his latest book, Stan Furman act like men.
32:58
He's like what most churches either implicitly or explicitly say is guys, okay, if you want
33:04
if you want access to this church, that's fine.
33:07
Just leave your testicles at the door.
33:08
Just just check them in.
33:09
We'll see if we can find them afterwards and we'll give them back to you.
33:12
And that's just not a message that resonates with a lot of guys.
33:15
We can find them.
33:16
Yeah.
33:17
But it's like that's not a message that resonates guys.
33:20
Well I would have added that in if he had asked me for advice or for advice on that chapter.
33:25
But for a lot of men, they're not attracted to that.
33:27
And then even men that would consider themselves to be Christians, they don't want to spend
33:30
that hard discipleship time with other guys that are like that too.
33:35
It's like this isn't it's like it wasn't built for them.
33:38
Does that make sense?
33:39
Yeah, it does, I'm a leader, I lead a large church.
33:53
I've dealt with a lot of challenges, a lot of responsibility.
33:56
I don't think people look at me and they're like, Tyson is an alpha bro.
34:02
I think they look at me and they go, hey man, he's a credible leader.
34:06
He's thoughtful.
34:07
He's built something.
34:08
He's a worker.
34:09
He's done all that stuff.
34:11
So I think, I think the goal is to form the character of Jesus as the primary goal and
34:22
let men have the cultural expression of masculinity that feels the truth to them.
34:27
So here's what I mean by that doesn't mean that you just do whatever whatever you want.
34:31
There's obviously godly traits, those sorts of things.
34:34
But what I'm looking for is the cultivation of strength.
34:40
That's what I'm looking for.
34:41
I'm looking to produce strong men, men of resolve, men of conviction, men who are not
34:47
easily persuaded, men who don't self censor out of fear, men who have conviction.
34:53
If they express that a little more quietly.
34:57
If they express that a little more reservedly, I'm fine, I'm fine with that.
35:03
But what I want to do is cultivate that inner fortitude and strength.
35:08
And again, I think the greatest curse the church has reduced that to as being nice.
35:14
Just be nice.
35:16
Just want to be nice, man.
35:17
Hey, listen, just, just, just be nice.
35:19
That's not it.
35:22
One of the chapters I talk about in the intentional father, I got this from Jason Donovan.
35:27
Was do you want to be good?
35:28
You want to be a good man?
35:29
No, the typical good Christian man is got an ill-fitting golf shirt tucked in a pants
35:36
that don't fit.
35:38
And the whole goal of his week is not to masturbate and look at porn.
35:42
And he's just tired and he's exhausted and he's, I don't think anyone says, if that's
35:47
a man, that's what I want to be.
35:49
And he changes it and he says the goal is to be good at being a man.
35:54
And so that's what you want to cultivate, how to be good at being a man.
35:57
That's a combination of developing that inner strength that builds to encouraging conviction.
36:04
That is about taking on the cruciform life.
36:07
It's the life of self-denial for the sake of others.
36:11
That's the life where you develop actual skills, where you bring value, men feel good when
36:15
they're good at things.
36:17
It's cultivating skill.
36:18
It's cultivating resources.
36:20
It's showing up on these various fronts of life ready to contribute and to show up.
36:25
So yeah, the church has to get back to that holistic vision of forming men.
36:29
And I think if they do that, and listen, it's happening.
36:33
The tide is turning.
36:34
It is happening more and more and more.
36:37
And so a lot of times we have to say this, we have so many people coming to Jesus right
36:42
now in New York.
36:43
I've never seen it before.
36:45
Everybody I know is talking about this, the openness to the gospel, the person of Jesus.
36:49
I've spent 20 years raging against secularism.
36:53
If I keep raging instead of changing my posture to welcome and facilitate what's happening,
37:00
I'm going to be raging in the wrong season.
37:02
And so the same thing is like, I don't want to just bash the church for how much it sucked.
37:07
I want to equip the church to move ahead for the season it's in.
37:11
So yeah, the questions I think pastors should be asking is, what will I do for these young
37:15
men coming to my church?
37:17
What is my plan for discipleship?
37:19
What areas can I find that I can develop them and build them and shape them in?
37:24
So again, there's so much to hate on, but if all we do is hate when there's a great turning
37:29
around right now, if we just create, but if every pastor had a plan, a vision, consciously
37:35
worked on this and started building it forward, I think we'd be amazed at how quickly things
37:40
would turn.
37:41
John, I don't want to divert too far away from fighting shadows, but why do you think
37:45
y'all are experiencing currently what you're experiencing in New York City?
37:51
So much of it is prayer, mate.
37:53
So much of it is prayer, it is intercession, it is an absolute insistent, you know, part
38:00
of it as well is secularism has failed, mate.
38:05
All these ideologies, they may work great in some professor's office, but reality always
38:15
wins.
38:16
And I remember Francis Shafer talking about how all of us live in a raw world where God
38:23
is present.
38:24
He's everywhere.
38:25
And so we build these little hearts to shield us from encounters with the divine.
38:30
And what's happening is all of those little hearts are being a wrecking ball is going
38:35
through them and people, all the things we've built to try and shield us from God are failing
38:40
us all at once and people are going, what else is there?
38:43
Hey, is there a book that we used to talk about?
38:46
Or is that the Bible?
38:47
Let me get a Bible and see if there's anything to it.
38:49
Hey, you know what?
38:51
So I got this research.
38:52
It was so funny.
38:53
It was research.
38:54
It was marketing research on Gen Z, what's going to happen in 25, 26 and 27.
38:59
And it was so funny because they had these categories like trad fantasies and was like
39:04
one of the fastest growing trends with young women was like having a fantasy of just being
39:09
a traditional wife and homeschooling kids and they called masculinity literally primal
39:15
masculinity, which was guys who wanted to do manual labor and go back into the trades
39:20
because they were so sick of all the crap of culture.
39:24
So again, the enemy overplays his hand.
39:27
Everything gets shoved so far into insanity, rebellion for kids who grew up in this chaos
39:34
looks like, I don't know, traditional roles and traditional life and biblical values.
39:38
So I think that's a part of it.
39:40
There's an overplay of the hand of the evil one.
39:43
People start looking at the gospel start looking like good news again.
39:46
And in the midst of all of the chaos, people are looking for some kind of order and nobody
39:50
more beautifully orders chaos than the person of Jesus.
39:52
Yeah.
39:53
And I mean secularism has been held up and found wanting.
39:56
So we're the four horsemen of new atheism.
39:58
People go back and read the same books they're reading, you know, they're reading stuff and
40:02
they're reading these quotes like, are we just dancing to our DNA and that sounded good
40:05
when they were younger.
40:06
They're reading and like, Oh my gosh, there's, there's nothing here.
40:08
This is completely vapid.
40:10
But I think is that nihilism is not an effective strategy to building a beautiful life.
40:14
No, it's not because we can't even define what beauty is if we're actually a nihilist.
40:18
But at the same time, I think something that you're keying in on is there's not a single
40:22
kind of man that that we can try to like, almost like in a conveyor belt since create
40:28
this type of man.
40:29
So I have this group called Dominion.
40:31
It sees men that I'm mentoring that live all over the country and then we do a meetup.
40:35
And when they come to me, wherever I am, either, you know, typically Oklahoma or Jacksonville,
40:39
they'll meet my buddies, especially if they're here in Oklahoma.
40:43
And they're shocked that most of my friends are not exactly like me.
40:47
Like they don't all do jujitsu.
40:49
They don't all have tattoos and call flower ear.
40:51
They don't all listen to metal music and eat meat for 90% of their meals, like, but they're
40:57
manly dudes.
40:58
And I'll use one guy's example.
40:59
I've talked about this on the show before his name is Ryan Horn.
41:02
There are a lot of people like y'all are like an odd couple, like y'all doesn't make any
41:04
sense that y'all are in y'all literally are not into any of the same things, but we have
41:08
these aggressive areas of overlap.
41:10
And one of them is the Bible.
41:12
And so he was in town, uh, one of my guys, I was in the Dominion program was in town.
41:17
He had a medical emergency.
41:18
And he's about to get an ambulance to be taken off for emergency surgery.
41:22
And Ryan was with me in the hotel in the hospital room.
41:26
And he didn't know this guy, but he knew me.
41:29
He knew this was kind of a crazy situation.
41:31
He wanted to be there to support me.
41:32
Well, when he's going into surgery, John, I get on the phone.
41:35
I'm calling this guy's wife.
41:37
I'm calling his parents.
41:38
I'm calling the place he was supposed to be the next day to tell him he's not going
41:40
to make it.
41:41
I'm, I'm coordinating things right.
41:42
I'm, so I'm in the hallway.
41:43
When I come back in the room, Ryan Horn's going to war.
41:47
He's got his Bible out.
41:48
He's reading Psalms out loud and he is praying against the darkness that was happening in
41:54
that room and in that man's life.
41:56
And so yeah, if I was going to get into a fist fight, he probably wouldn't be the guy
42:00
who'd want to back me up, but he can war in a different way.
42:04
And so he's helping me as I'm helping him in some different ways, but I think all that
42:08
coalesces into a conversation about whatever your language is, but a foxhole or a band
42:13
of brothers or Matt Toders is Joe B. Martin calls him or King's table as matching on their
42:18
calls them because in the book, you talk about this, you know, this moment where you're a
42:23
warrior and you've got your sword in your hand, but you're alone.
42:26
And then I'm going to read the quote from the book.
42:28
You were getting tired of the specter of defeat, uh, loom's large, lose larger by the minute,
42:33
but then you notice the sound of footsteps behind you quite at first, but gradually
42:38
growing to a deafening roar.
42:40
The rest of your brothers are on the way, but John discipleship is one of the main complaints
42:46
I get from men that see me meet me or DM me.
42:49
This is another one.
42:50
I don't have men around me that I can rely on.
42:53
And so I know what I normally tell these guys, but what would your message be to these
42:57
men who are kind of untethered list lists and they don't feel like they've got those three
43:02
AM friends that they can rely on?
43:04
Listen, it's, it's the hardest thing is you have to be for others what you wish you had
43:10
for yourself.
43:12
There's no shortcut.
43:13
You just got to just show up for others like you wish someone shot for you.
43:17
If you wait for all of your wounds to be healed before you heal someone else, you're going
43:21
to be waiting till Jesus comes back.
43:23
You just got to feel that gap yourself and you've just got to acknowledge to do this
43:27
will feel awkward to do this.
43:29
You may face rejection from other guys because they're not used to having someone step in
43:33
their life, but just go find two or three other dudes and just say, Hey, listen, man,
43:38
I want to build and I want to burn.
43:40
And are you interested in that?
43:42
You don't need a ton of friends.
43:44
One or two friends will change the direction and course of your life.
43:48
So yeah, just be proactive.
43:50
Just say, Hey man, do you want to get together?
43:52
Just get in the backyard.
43:54
Let's do a fire pit or whatever.
43:55
Let's together.
43:56
I mean, you know, let's have coffee is not quite the same thing is like, let's eat meat
44:00
over a fire.
44:01
I don't know what that is, but find whatever thing works for you.
44:06
Put a time on a calendar, ruthlessly prioritize it, make it great.
44:11
If it sucks, make it better, be proactive, create what is lacking, wish, you know, build
44:17
what you had most the stuff I've created.
44:20
If you come to one of our forming men's retreats, they're expensive.
44:24
But they're expensive because they're fricking awesome, mate.
44:27
Yeah.
44:28
And I would go to men's retreats and I was like, we're going to eat hot dogs.
44:30
I was like, when we started these things, I had guys spear fishing fish in the oceans
44:37
of Hawaii, packing it ice, packing it in ice and shipping it to Brady, Texas.
44:43
They were like, did you like that wild hog?
44:45
I shot that four days ago.
44:48
Like I was like, build what you wished existed.
44:52
You know what I mean?
44:53
Take, take some initiative and, um, and God will match your action.
44:59
Pray about it.
45:00
God, you see the void.
45:02
I am asking for help.
45:03
You sit to raise up laborers.
45:05
Lord, I know this is in your heart.
45:07
And so as I move out, I'm asking for the help of heaven, move some other men's heart and
45:11
just build it, man.
45:12
It doesn't have to be big.
45:13
It just has to be potent.
45:14
That's the main thing.
45:15
What do you say?
45:16
Well, so I say something very similar because I'm like, Hey, if, if you've looked around,
45:20
which a lot of these guys, oh, I've looked for a group like this, most of the time that's
45:23
not true, but I'm like, if you're looking around and can't find it, I think that's a
45:27
pretty good indication that you're the one to start it.
45:29
And so then guys get that in their head and they wrap their minds around that and then
45:32
they say, okay, I got a couple of guys we're going to meet in my garage on Thursday.
45:39
So what do we do?
45:40
And I tell them, I'm like, dude, it almost doesn't matter.
45:44
It almost doesn't matter.
45:45
The hardest part is to get them to show up.
45:48
This next hardest part is to get them to show up consistently.
45:51
And then after that, yeah, okay, I think you should do something hard.
45:55
I think you should do something hard physically.
45:57
Like go for a rock.
45:58
Let's move sandbags around.
45:59
Let's do jujitsu.
46:00
I think that that's, that's something that's helpful for men.
46:02
It's got to be weekly.
46:04
That's another thing because if you do a once a month thing and a guy misses, he hasn't
46:08
missed a month.
46:09
He's missed two because he missed the 29 days prior to in the 29 days after that, right?
46:13
So you do it weekly.
46:15
And then when you get there, I told guys, I was like, dude, you could study Habakkuk,
46:19
right?
46:20
Like it doesn't matter exactly what book of the Bible you get into, but you just need
46:24
to dig in.
46:25
I talk about my foxhole.
46:26
It started 10 years before I was a part of it with one guy that was learning jujitsu.
46:30
And he talked to some other guys.
46:31
He said, Hey, I've got some mats.
46:33
Can I like try some of this stuff out on you guys?
46:36
And then after a few months, one of the guys goes, Hey, I'm reading this new book that just
46:39
came out.
46:40
It's called Wild at Heart.
46:41
I just found it.
46:42
Hey, what if we all read that together and talked about it before we did jujitsu?
46:45
And here we are, John 20 years later, every Sunday from seven to nine PM, there's a group
46:51
of guys and there's some of the same guys that started this thing 20 years ago, but it's
46:55
not about the book we're reading per se.
46:58
It's not about the workout we do per se.
47:00
It's not about the jujitsu per se.
47:02
It's about guys when the chips are down, you look around for guys that you know have
47:06
been forged, right?
47:07
And there's no pun intended because people train up my gym, which is called the forge,
47:10
but that's what that's what you get.
47:12
And you don't get that necessarily from, Hey, come to church at six AM once a month for,
47:17
you know, men's prayer breakfast, you get that just weekly being around these guys and
47:22
actually I hate the term, but it's literally you're doing life with them.
47:26
There's that, there's that concept we talk about this.
47:29
This is, I originally got this your mental hurts.
47:32
It's called communitas, not community.
47:34
And communitas is a very particular kind of community.
47:38
It is the community that is forged through shared suffering or adventure.
47:43
And so it comes originally from the language of pilgrimages.
47:46
So when I closed out my sort of writer passage with my son, he did a gap here and at the
47:51
end of it, we walked 500 miles across Spain on the committed to Santiago.
47:56
So it's about 17 miles a day.
47:57
We did it.
47:58
It was 100 degrees.
47:59
It was just the gnarliest thing foot was rotting off my skin.
48:04
So skin was rotting off my foot.
48:07
I put my blisters on Instagram and I had two responses.
48:11
I had a nurse say that blister is to the bone.
48:14
You were going to do permanent life damage.
48:16
You must stop immediately.
48:17
And then I had a guy who was like, bro, I was, I was in the deserts of Kuwait.
48:23
Here's what you do, wrap a sock in duct tape and keep walking.
48:28
Yeah.
48:29
Such amazing responses.
48:30
Anyway, my son to this day still talks about that trip because we bonded through
48:36
suffering and adventure.
48:38
So again, I totally agree.
48:39
It almost doesn't matter what you do as long as it's not the normal crap that bores you.
48:45
It's got to be a window in your week where your heart comes alive by being in it.
48:51
And it's got to be a, it's got to be a well you draw from that gives you fuel for the
48:54
rest of your week.
48:56
So I, we, we have a program.
48:59
It's called man year and it's business basic.
49:01
It's four 12 week challenges, physical, spiritual, mental, emotional.
49:05
The whole thing is just to help you fix the foundation of where you are.
49:09
And the whole thing, it's like, so for the, the spiritual module, you'll read the entire
49:13
new Testament, your fast 12 times, and you'll write out 10 prayers for the 10 core areas
49:18
of your life.
49:19
So when sometimes I don't know how to pray for my work, here's your work prayer, don't
49:22
know how to pray for my marriage.
49:23
Here's my marriage prayer.
49:24
Don't know how to pray for my kids.
49:26
At the end of it, we get guys going, I fasted for almost two weeks.
49:29
I've never fasted in my life.
49:31
I've read the entire new Testament.
49:32
I meet with guys regularly.
49:34
I didn't even know this was possible for me.
49:36
We just need to do stuff like that.
49:38
So again, we've got a free little guide.
49:41
We run a matter of church.
49:42
They're called core communities, C O R E, and it's the foremost neglect, the disciplines.
49:48
So the first one sees confession is like, you've got to be ruthlessly honest with your sin.
49:53
Oh, is others like, what are you doing for others?
49:55
You got to, how you reaching people who don't know Jesus, how you serve and be on yourself.
49:59
Ah, is what are you reading in God's word?
50:01
Just talk about the questions you have, the stuff you don't understand.
50:04
The stuff you love, and the E is the kind of accountability we need, which is encouragement
50:09
for your life mission.
50:11
And so a lot of times we think, well, I wish I could, I wish you should.
50:14
You need people who are like, bro, I believe in you.
50:16
Go do it.
50:17
You're starting something.
50:18
I'm buying stock, whatever it is.
50:20
And if you just confess your sins, care about others, read God's word and encourage other
50:24
in your life mission, you'll be a different person, mate.
50:28
So yeah, I mean, there's a million ways to do it.
50:31
Start one, get into it.
50:33
I think that's the key.
50:35
One, if you're the leader, I mean, I would co-sign all of that because yes, you need
50:38
to deputize other men to not be so impressed by you, because maybe you're surrounded by
50:42
dudes that are really successful in business, or maybe they have a kind of a unique job.
50:46
That's kind of cool or something like that.
50:48
You need guys that just aren't that impressed by you.
50:49
They love you.
50:50
They're your number one fans, but they'll stop you.
50:53
They're willing to interrupt you.
50:54
And also if you're a leader, just remove barriers to entry.
50:57
And so like, you know, I told these guys, you want to start a rucking club.
50:59
I was like, Hey, really good rucks like from Go Ruck, they're expensive.
51:03
And so if a guy is maybe living paycheck to paycheck, he's not going to drop three, four
51:07
hundred dollars on a really good Ruck.
51:09
So buy four or five of them, right?
51:11
Or pull your money together.
51:12
So if a guy shows up and is like, Oh, I don't have a Ruck, it's like no problem.
51:15
We have three extra ones in the back of the truck.
51:16
Grab one.
51:17
Right.
51:18
So remove the barriers to entry.
51:19
But also, and y'all talk about this in the book and we're running short on time so
51:21
we can't super dive in, but you talked about the difference of guilt and shame and kind
51:26
of how Satan weaponizes guilt and shame and those different things.
51:30
But there was also a quote in the book, because some guys, John, don't think that they're
51:34
qualified to lead a group or be in a group like that, a group of men because of something
51:39
that they've done or that was done to them in the past.
51:42
So the quote in the book is this, God can even use your points of failure as a place
51:47
of ministry, learning to strengthen your brothers as you regain your footing and begin to move
51:52
toward the light.
51:54
So I've never lost a child.
51:57
Thank God.
51:58
I've got a five year old and a three year old that are healthy and strong, but they're
52:01
people I know that have lost children.
52:03
So they are equipped through pain and suffering to help somebody that is walking that same
52:09
pathway.
52:10
If you're on either side of a divorce, either side of an adultery, either side of an abusive
52:15
relationship, you know, fill in the blanks therein, it actually equips you and deputizes
52:21
you to be able to have that as a arrow in your quiver.
52:24
So let's talk more about that.
52:28
Nobody wants to be in the group with the perfect guy that gets everything right and never screws
52:32
it up.
52:34
No one wants to be in a group where they gather around a hero because the whole time he just
52:39
thinking, I could never be that man.
52:41
People want to be around people who are real who've been through stuff that can help him.
52:45
And this is what sort of men have to realize your mistakes and your successes are the curriculum
52:50
with which you teach others.
52:52
So just like literally take a moment and write down just like, Hey, what's some of the crap
52:56
I've been through?
52:58
What did I learn about that?
53:00
And if you would do as simple as write out a clear statement of what you learned, write
53:06
out like a sticky statement.
53:09
You know what I mean?
53:11
Pick a sticky statement like his is going to stay close to your story.
53:14
Okay, that's a sticky statement.
53:16
And so it's just like, Hey, man, we need to go through and look at our brokenness and
53:20
never get proud.
53:21
We never remember what we were safe from.
53:23
And so listen, you give it a sticky statement, give a one sentence lesson, give a Bible verse,
53:28
and then bro, you are leading the next study.
53:30
It's as simple as that.
53:31
Most men don't pay attention to the work of God in their lives.
53:34
They don't codify it.
53:36
And therefore, they think they've got nothing to offer.
53:38
But if at the end of every week, you just if you literally wrote down, what did I learn
53:42
about life?
53:43
What did I learn about God?
53:44
What did I learn about myself?
53:45
You will be training out of what God has done in you.
53:49
So yet it's the places of your greatest failure become the places of your greatest ministry.
53:54
If you repent and give it to Jesus, you will now have a testimony and something with which
53:58
you can guide through the people, the people, the journey of your own redemption.
54:02
So yeah, otherwise the best stuff is when you're walking with people who have been through
54:07
stuff that you recognize and you can help them with.
54:10
You want guides, not just what do they say that the people that used to, we don't even
54:15
use them anymore.
54:16
What are they?
54:17
I can't even think of them.
54:18
They don't have tools.
54:19
What travel agents.
54:20
Traveling.
54:21
Yeah.
54:22
You can use travel agents.
54:23
No one wants to travel agent who never been anywhere that's selling you something.
54:24
You want to meet a guy that's like, dude, follow me, I'll walk you right through it.
54:28
So again, take a bit of a minute to codify what that is.
54:32
Just to know, extract the lesson and you'll be amazed how you can use that again.
54:38
People are looking for people who have been where they are, who can help them get to the
54:41
next step.
54:42
And all you have to do is figure out how God got you to the next step, write it down,
54:46
share that with others, be the curriculum mate.
54:49
Yeah.
54:50
That's right.
54:51
Be the curriculum.
54:52
And then also when you get that group of guys together, look for a way to join your
54:55
voices together and point it in a particular direction.
54:58
In the book, y'all talk about the crystallization of discontent and how that's such a good thing.
55:04
So for me, I've crystallized guys around the mission of, hey, let's stop killing babies
55:08
while they're residing in the wombs of their mothers.
55:10
That's horrible.
55:11
That's evil.
55:12
We've got to put some resources there.
55:14
There are some single women in my community that have had some very terrible circumstances
55:18
that befell them by horrible, evil, untethered men in their life.
55:22
My guys see that as that's not cool.
55:25
And so we help those women, whether it's with our physical bodies, moving things, moving
55:29
them to a new place or intercessory, intercessorally using our bodies and I'll leave it at that.
55:35
And so I think there are things that as a group, you can use almost like a group crystallization
55:41
of discontent, even though in the book, you were talking more in an individual context
55:45
and pointed in a direction like, hey, here's a real injustice that I see.
55:49
Like not, hey, someone had their name spelled wrong on a coffee cup at Starbucks, but there's
55:52
a real injustice in my community.
55:54
And this group of guys, we're going to do something about it and they're not going to
55:57
write stories or sonnets about it later, but we're going to go get after it.
56:01
Dude, that's exactly right.
56:03
Do something about the way things are.
56:07
Every group needs a mission beyond itself, doesn't matter what it is.
56:11
Here's like a very, very simple story from some stuff we've done in our church.
56:15
So group of guys get together and we say to them, fast on the day you meet for that lunch
56:21
time and then take the money you would spend on lunch and put it in a generosity tin.
56:27
And at the end of the month, take that money and ask yourself, who is in need represented
56:33
in this circle that we can bless? Who do you know that needs to be blessed?
56:37
Mate, we did that.
56:39
We saw a Muslim woman come to Christ.
56:41
It was a Muslim woman.
56:42
Her husband had died living with her kid.
56:45
Community was not supporting her.
56:46
These people show up, pay her rent, care for her, help her out.
56:50
She says, no, Muslim ever loved me like this gives a life of Jesus.
56:54
Just be about something beyond yourself.
56:57
Step in.
56:58
If there's a fight and someone's getting beat up, get in the middle of it.
57:00
If someone's getting ripped off, get in the middle of it, like jam yourself up in the
57:04
middle of what's broken and do something about the way things are.
57:08
You will get so much joy out of that whenever I get beat down, right?
57:13
So I live in the middle of Manhattan, I live just above Times Square, just below Central
57:16
Park.
57:17
I'm in the belly button of the freaking belly of the beast.
57:21
Anytime I feel like my life has been too academic, anytime I feel like I've been in
57:27
too many meetings with Christians, you know what I do?
57:29
I go outside, I walk around New York, I look for people in need and I do stuff about it.
57:36
Do you need help?
57:38
Can I pray for you?
57:39
Do I have a backpack, just fill with stuff for people living on the street?
57:43
Hey, man, do you need wipes?
57:45
Do you need bandages?
57:46
Bro, I got you.
57:47
Can I pray a blessing over you?
57:48
Do you need freedom?
57:51
I don't need anybody else's permission to be Jesus to the people in need in my world.
57:56
And so I say this, like if you're bored with your life and you're sitting at home, get
57:59
out of your home and get into the lives of other people who have needs, and you will
58:04
be amazed to have the depression list, you'll be amazed to have the anxiety list.
58:09
All the research, the social research says that so much of our healing comes by giving
58:12
yourself away like others.
58:14
Men are at their best when they are using their strength on behalf of others, lifting
58:18
things, advocating for things, legislating, whatever it is you're doing to bring the kingdom
58:24
of God on behalf of others, if every group had that mate, we'd be living in a different
58:28
world.
58:29
Well, and I'll do all that.
58:30
I love that.
58:31
I affirm it.
58:32
Hey, your restaurant idea is fantastic.
58:33
Here's another one that seems small to me for forever until I started telling people about
58:38
it and they started doing it and it's, it's really shifted a lot of people, but I can't
58:42
remember where I got this.
58:43
I didn't come up with it, but you know, you sit down at a restaurant, they bring you your
58:47
food and then what do they say next?
58:50
Is there anything else I can get you?
58:51
That's what a good server would say.
58:52
Is there anything else I can get for you and normally we say, no, thank you or in Oklahoma,
58:57
we say ranch, please.
58:58
Right?
58:59
So, but there's, you know, that's basically it.
59:00
I need more water.
59:01
I need more of this.
59:03
But what I started saying is I said, we're about to bless our meal.
59:06
How can we be praying for you?
59:09
Not do you need prayer, not what can I do for you?
59:12
It's like there's an assumptive close that there is a prayer request and I'm asking for
59:17
it.
59:18
And, you know, some people are like, ah, no thanks and they walk away.
59:20
They skedaddle from the table pretty quick.
59:22
Most of the time, John, they give me something and then I don't just leave it there.
59:26
I say, hey, what's your, you know, I've gotten their name by then, but hey, Amy, I'm not
59:30
a long winded prayer.
59:31
Would you want to stay?
59:32
Well, I pray that pray for that over you as we bless our meal.
59:36
They always say, yes, and so I do a 15 second prayer.
59:40
I get right to the point and then I move on.
59:42
And what that does is it just for a second, John or, you know, minute takes the focus
59:47
off me, the point of that lunch, you know, maybe it's a business thing and I'm trying
59:52
to, you know, get something out of this interaction.
59:54
It's like pause.
59:55
No, this is a ministry opportunity to someone who is not going to be asked that question
1:00:00
today.
1:00:01
I can just about guarantee it, but that's just one of those ways in a micro sense that you
1:00:05
could have a tremendous impact on someone's life.
1:00:08
If, if we, if men in, in America around the world, but if men every day, we're praying
1:00:16
for people, blessing people, standing up for people, being generous for people.
1:00:21
We would let the social fabric of our world would change.
1:00:26
So yeah, building potent men, living in communities, doing the Jesus stuff in everyday life is
1:00:33
just about the solution, mate.
1:00:35
That's it.
1:00:36
Well, John, we're going to wind up a close here.
1:00:37
So we'll put a bow on fighting shadows again, guys.
1:00:39
You can check that out in the show notes.
1:00:41
It was released in 2024.
1:00:43
Check out the link in the show notes, but let's talk about what's on the horizon.
1:00:46
So you've always got a billion things going on, but you've only told people about a handful
1:00:50
of them.
1:00:51
So I know you got some ideas kicking around.
1:00:53
And so I just want to know what's next for you.
1:00:55
What's next for your ministry?
1:00:56
Okay.
1:00:57
So I'm about to release a ministry for gen Z men called build and fight with my son.
1:01:06
Okay.
1:01:07
So my sons just turned, my sons just turned 25.
1:01:09
He did the primal path.
1:01:11
He spent the last five years getting his life together, working, marrying, getting his
1:01:14
crap together.
1:01:16
And there's almost nothing specifically designed for gen Z men.
1:01:19
So so we're going to do something, get in the gap for gen Z men, build and fight.
1:01:23
I'm writing a book right now called the antidote for exhaustion.
1:01:26
And it's all on how to build an inner life with God to handle any external pressure.
1:01:31
So there's that scene, how did David learn to strengthen himself in the Lord?
1:01:36
It's a book on how to build an inner strength with God to handle out of pressure.
1:01:39
I'm sick of living in a world where the number one trait is anxiety.
1:01:43
We have access to an inner in greater as he that's in you, that's he that's in the world.
1:01:49
We forgot that man.
1:01:50
How do you build a life that access is that?
1:01:52
So I'm working on a book for that.
1:01:54
I've got my first ever sabbatical coming up next summer.
1:01:57
And so this is, I'm looking forward to this alternative 50.
1:02:01
So I am doing a 50 day Harley tour around America retracing John Steinbeck's book travels with
1:02:11
Charlie.
1:02:12
Well, New York to Maine to San Francisco to LA across the American South and up the coast
1:02:19
back to New York.
1:02:20
So my first ever sabbatical, I'm getting after it.
1:02:24
John, if you can just make it through Oklahoma, it's going to be real flat.
1:02:28
You'll be able to see for miles, but I've got a few stakes ready to go for you and a
1:02:32
cigar and maybe a bourbon or two.
1:02:34
So we'll look at it.
1:02:36
But John, it's always great to talk to you.
1:02:38
It's just such a pleasure and a treat to have you serve my audience in this way.
1:02:42
But that's all for me.
1:02:43
Is there anything else you want to get off your chest?
1:02:45
No, man, let me just pray a prayer of blessing for everyone listening.
1:02:48
Is that okay?
1:02:49
Please.
1:02:50
Yeah.
1:02:51
Father, we just want to say thank you for the men who are listening to this podcast.
1:02:53
Lord, I just want to ask in the name of Jesus that you will fill them with a spirit of life.
1:03:01
And Father, I just pray you will activate vision for them.
1:03:04
Lord, I pray that they will have a sound mind, self-control and power.
1:03:09
And Father, I just pray that each one of them, you will put holy ambition in them to live
1:03:16
and love Jesus and to build the kingdom of God with their life.
1:03:19
So Lord, I just pray wherever they're listening at the gym, in a car, on a mower, hanging
1:03:25
out somewhere, watching a game.
1:03:26
I don't know what it is.
1:03:27
Father, I just pray release power for the things that we've talked about to be actualized
1:03:33
in their life.
1:03:34
Thank you for the blood of Jesus that cleanses us for more sin.
1:03:37
Thank you for the resurrection of the dead, the hope we have for eternal life.
1:03:41
And Lord, I just ask that you give them vision to live that kingdom life now.
1:03:45
I pray this in the name of Jesus.
1:03:47
Amen.
1:03:48
Amen.
1:03:49
Thanks again, John.
1:03:50
Sweet.
1:03:51
Thanks, mate.
1:03:52
Good shot with you.
1:03:53
There you go, guys.
1:03:54
I hope you enjoyed my time with John Tyson.
1:03:55
But before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost at Undaunted Life
1:03:58
Remission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges, spiritual, mental
1:04:01
and physical resilience.
1:04:02
So I've got a couple links for you today, I've got a link to John's website and a link
1:04:05
to where you can pick up your copy of his latest book, Fighting Shadows.
1:04:10
Thank you for listening to this podcast.
1:04:11
Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five-star
1:04:14
review.
1:04:15
If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an email
1:04:18
to info@undaunted.life.
1:04:20
That's I-N-F-O at Undaunted Life.
1:04:23
Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else,
1:04:26
including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way.
1:04:29
Just go to www.undaunted.life and as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing
1:04:34
us to use their music for our content.
1:04:36
The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self-titled debut album
1:04:40
on Face Down Records.
1:04:41
The links are in the description.
1:04:43
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
1:04:45
Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
1:04:52
You're seeking the lion of Judah.