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This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it.
0:56
Our guest today, we have special guest on the podcast. His name is Joel Salatin. He's an American
1:01
farmer, author, and blogger. He's the owner of Polyface Farms in the Shenandoah Valley,
1:06
in Virginia. He has a blog called the Lunatic Farmer, and there is a recently released
1:10
Angel Studios documentary about his life as well, where he goes into that moniker in the lunatic
1:14
farmer and all of that. I wanted to talk to him for a long time. You might recognize his name,
1:18
because I think he's been on Joe Rogan several times. I know he's been on there at least twice.
1:22
And so he's a guy that just approaches farming and environmentalism in a completely different
1:27
way. And he does it from a biblical Christian worldview, because he calls himself. He has kind
1:32
of a long moniker and a long name for himself at the beginning of the podcast. It's actually the
1:35
first thing I ask him about. But this is a guy that has dedicated his life to farming. And the
1:40
story about how he got into that is pretty insane, because his dad was like a chicken farmer in
1:44
Venezuela, but you know, there was a coup in the country. So they got ran out of the country when
1:48
he was like four years old. They end up in this terrible piece of land in Virginia, but it's the
1:52
same piece of land they're on now and it's incredibly ridiculously fertile. But in this podcast, we talk
1:57
about why he thinks, you know, he's so he's so thankful that he gets to wake up every morning and
2:02
walk out into a physical expressions of God's abundance and how this planet is not a scarcity
2:07
planet, you know, especially if you hear from environmentalists or leftists online, but that this
2:11
is an abundance planet when we do things God's way, especially when it pertains to farming,
2:15
whether that's particular types of crops or beef or pork production or chickens or any of those
2:20
types of things, when we do a God's way, it is better overall. It was just an incredible story.
2:25
He went off on several really, really good productive and smart tangents about things that are related
2:30
to this. I even asked him about, you know, how Christian Christian men have kind of been
2:33
emasculated by the environmental environmentalism movement, and specifically how, you know,
2:38
this has affected Christian manhood and our dominion mandate and all the different things.
2:42
He was just such an interesting guy to learn about leading up to the podcast and a great
2:46
guy to talk to. So I won't keep him from you any longer. So without further ado, let's get into it.
2:51
Joe Salatin, welcome to Undaunted Life of Man's podcast.
2:53
Thank you. It's an honor and a privilege to be with you.
2:56
Well, I've been thrilled to talk to you ever since I got the pitch from our mutual buddies.
3:02
They're over at Angel Studios. I know that they have, at least from the outside,
3:05
they look like they've been a great partner for you, been a tremendous partner for us,
3:08
and we'll certainly get into all of that. But I've heard you call yourself something before
3:14
that seems rather divisive and a little bit extreme. I've heard you describe yourself, sir,
3:19
as a conservative evangelical Christian environmentalist. Now, one of those words
3:24
doesn't seem to fit in there, but don't worry, we'll get there. But especially, you know,
3:28
those Christian conservative evangelicals, those people can kind of be crazy. So why in the world
3:34
are you giving yourself that name tag, sir? Well, so the real moniker is Christian libertarian
3:40
environmentalist, capitalist lunatic farmer. And that's my self-acclaimed moniker. And it came to
3:48
me years ago when I got excoriated, I guess would be the right word, by yet another farmer who
3:58
who ripped me up for, you know, not using vaccinations and everything. At the same time,
4:07
being ripped up by environmentalists for not being an abortionist and for everything that the
4:16
teacher's union wants and bigger government, more taxes, all that sort of thing. So I realized
4:21
I was kind of a guy without a home and everybody who, you know, who met me wanted to put me in a box.
4:28
We love to put people in a box, right? You know, we like to find out, you know, what's your box?
4:33
And so I realized, you know, I'm not anybody's box. You know, I love earthworms and I love
4:38
capitalism. So, you know, here we are. And so I just in defense so that I, you know, kind of be
4:46
proactive about not putting me in a box. I created this Christian libertarian environmentalist,
4:52
capitalist lunatic farmer. And it really stuck and is resonated and has really become a brand.
4:58
And, and it lets me, it lets me get onto a stage with a, with a smile to dispel the perceptions,
5:08
the stereotypical perceptions, and to give me space to deal with things that a lot of people
5:15
don't deal with. Earthworms and capitalism. I call it. I'm selling t-shirts, sir. But don't
5:20
worry. I will give you credit, at least on the t-shirt. And I'll kick you a buck for every
5:24
shirt we sell. But, you know, it's interesting because we're already kind of leaning into a lot
5:28
of the work that you've done. But we do need to go back because you didn't exactly have a direct
5:32
route to becoming a farmer yourself and some of the stuff that you're doing right now. Like,
5:37
if you look at some of the parts of your upbringing, you wouldn't necessarily say that here we are
5:41
decades later doing this. So let's talk a little bit about grandpa, Salatin and daddy Salatin and
5:47
kind of what they experience and what kind of impact that hat on you. And then we'll get into,
5:52
we'll get into Venezuela, we'll get into Virginia, we'll get into everything else.
5:56
Yeah, so my grandfather was in Indiana and always wanted to be a farmer, but he never made it,
6:02
but he had a huge garden and he was a charter subscriber to Rodale's organic gardening and
6:08
farming magazine when it came out in, I don't know, 1945, something like that. And so dad got a lot
6:14
of that bent from him. Dad was flew in the Navy in World War II, got out, got his, and he wanted
6:20
to farm. Well, how do I start farming? He was very much a visionary. You know, the older I get,
6:24
the smarter dad was on maybe some of his other people experience that as well. And so he conceived
6:32
of a plan. Well, I'll go to a developing country. So he got his GI Bill business degree at Indiana
6:39
University, went to Middlebury and Vermont for a semester to study Spanish, hitchhiked to Mexico,
6:45
and for six months came back, sat for the Foreign Serval Service exam and passed it and got on with
6:53
Texas oil company as a bilingual accountant in the Wildcat oil drilling ventures off of the coast
6:58
of Venezuela. Seven years later, he's got enough money and he goes and buys a thousand acres in
7:03
the Venezuelan Highlands, begin raising chickens. Married mom, we had these two boys, my older brother
7:10
and myself, and started raising chickens and took over the local chicken market and the local farmers
7:16
said we were into voodoo and witchcraft because you couldn't have chickens that good unless you
7:20
were practicing voodoo and witchcraft. And so, so when the junta came in 1959, the ouster of pettis
7:27
a menace, when you have a junta like that, it gives, it gives a chance for lawlessness for scores to
7:34
be settled in lawlessness that wouldn't normally be settled. And so the machine guns came in the
7:39
back door, we fled the front door and spent about eight more months in the country trying to get
7:44
protection could not get it. And so the only thing to do was to, to leave and come back to the U.S.
7:49
Easter Sunday, 1961, dad was 39 and lost everything. So how were you at this time?
7:56
Okay, I was four. Yeah, so I was four. And so we came, we came back, but dad's heart was in
8:02
Venezuela. He loved the people, loved the culture, loved everything about it, and wanted to go back.
8:07
So we didn't go back to the Midwest where both of their families and our cousins were from.
8:11
We wanted to be within a days drive of DC, so that if things settled and we could go back, we could,
8:18
in a few hours, we could be at the Venezuelan embassy, get paperwork stamped and be back,
8:22
heading back to Venezuela. That never happened, of course. And of course, in hindsight, we look
8:27
at that tragedy and realize what a blessing it was that we didn't stay there and be successful
8:31
and then lose it all, you know, as a bigger, you know, as a bigger operation under Chavez and
8:37
Maduro, like so many people have. And so, you know, we, we've processed that, we understand that,
8:42
but that was, that was really difficult. And so we started on this gully rock pile here in Virginia,
8:49
Shenandoah Valley near Stanton, Virginia, and started over. And dad, again, well, how do I make
8:55
a living on this little farm? So we had all these experts in all bicemical fertilizer,
9:00
buy more chemicals, plant corn, plow more, graze the woodlot, build silos, bar more money.
9:06
Well, dad knew that wasn't the right thing to do. So he took a job in town. Mom took a job as a
9:12
school teacher, the off farm jobs, paid for the mortgage. And the farm went into an extended
9:18
experimental mode. And dad was a very much a visionary and, and was reading, you know, fringe
9:24
type stuff, everything from, you know, a non chemical farming and composting to, you know,
9:30
grazing management and different things. And so, you know, we had this, this wonderful kind of a
9:37
glorified homestead to experiment on so that now I'm getting up to be a teenager. I want to come
9:43
back to the farm. How do I get to this farm, you know, full time? And this is a Watergate, you
9:48
know, Nixon era, you know, mid 70s. And, and oh, I know, I haven't a bill. You know, I'm a, I write
9:54
really well. And so I'll go into journalism and go find my deep throat and, you know, expose the
10:01
next president, bring him down and make my best seller in and retire to the farm. Hopefully,
10:06
before I get too old. And so that was kind of my, you know, my idea. So I got on at the local
10:12
newspaper in high school, worked there answering the phone on Saturday nights throughout my junior
10:18
and senior years in high school. And, and just loved it. Love, you know, the hearing the squelker
10:24
go off and the wrecks and the fires and all that stuff and taking police reports and obituaries,
10:29
and I mean, they didn't let me do, you know, the major news writing, but I love the newsroom and
10:34
they liked me. And they said, well, as soon as you get out of school, out of college, come back,
10:38
and we'll, you know, we'll put you on. And so, so suddenly I had, oh man, I can stay home. I can
10:44
stay here on the farm, live here. And I can, you know, hopefully we can finagle something out.
10:49
And so that's exactly what I did. I got out of college, came back and, and worked at the newspaper
10:55
then. And by that time, Theresa and I had married, we fixed up the attic in the farmhouse,
11:00
lived on, on $300 a month, drove a $50 car. If we didn't grow it, we didn't eat it. We never
11:06
went anywhere. We didn't eat out. We, you know, we just, she, you know, she was a great, you know,
11:12
she could can, so cook everything. And so we lived cheaply and saved half of half of my paycheck.
11:18
So in two and a half years, we were able to save enough that I could come back to the farm
11:23
for one year without a salary. We made the jump September 24, 1982. I didn't think we would make it,
11:31
but we did. We actually did. And here we are.
11:35
And here we are. I definitely want to talk about that. But you mentioned something that was
11:40
interesting about your dad. And so I want to back up to that because you said, well, my dad
11:44
obviously wasn't going to do that. What the experts had said. But you know, I was thinking me,
11:48
I have a tendency to very be very trusting of experts. Obviously, since 2020, that has taken
11:53
quite quite the hit, right? But he had all these experts that he himself brought in, right? To give
11:58
him an idea about, okay, what do I do with this land? And because it's certainly not the lush land
12:03
that you have today, which we are certainly going to get into more. But why? Like, why did your dad,
12:09
was it just something inside of him? Was it God telling him like, Hey, yes, this is the conventional
12:14
wisdom, but just hang tight, go a different route. Well, so remember, he was he was an accountant.
12:20
He pushed a pencil. And and he had this kind of, you know, this non non chemical back. But
12:25
I think he came to the non I'm just going to call it a non chemical approach to just kind of be a
12:30
catch all phrase. He came to it. I think he saw the chemical approach as a drug addiction.
12:38
You know, it you've got to buy more every year. The the land builds up a resistance to it. And,
12:45
you know, superbugs, you've heard of all that, you know, and and so it you put you on his treadmill.
12:50
And and so he he realized that that that just from an economic standpoint,
12:57
we couldn't do that. The other thing that he realized very early on was that as a small farmer,
13:02
we had to wear the middleman hats. We couldn't be in the commodity business
13:07
because the commodity business is all about, you know, the cheapest cost producer and scale.
13:12
And we didn't have a big farm. So we needed to figure out how to wear those notorious middleman
13:18
hats. You know, the middleman makes all the money. We need to become the processor, the the marketer
13:23
and the distributor so that we got that full retail dollar and we headed down that approach.
13:29
So I got my first chickens when I was 10 and I had about 18 layers and started selling eggs
13:38
to neighbors and people at church and stuff. And then I'm 11 12 and I'm, you know, I'm expanding
13:44
this chicken thing. By the time I'm 14, I've got, you know, all these chickens. This is, you know,
13:50
1971 and I got, I got these, I needed a place to go. And our town, Stanton, which is a city of about
13:58
21,000, it had a leftover depression era market. It was a precursor to today's farmer's markets.
14:06
It was called the curb market and in the height of the depression, they had, I don't know what,
14:10
100 farm vendors there, you know, people that made pie and sausage and everything. It was like,
14:16
it was like a local Walmart, you know, if you can imagine. And by the time I turned 14, there were
14:22
two elderly matrons left over, Mrs. Shifflett, Mrs. Schover, and it was a year-round market inside,
14:28
but it had an agreement with the health inspectors that we could sell anything without government
14:36
inspection. We could sell cottage cheese and yogurt and we could butcher a beef in the meadow
14:41
and cut it up. I could butcher chickens and cook the meat, sell it as cooked meat. We had this
14:47
wonderful exemption from inspection. And so we began selling down there. And so throughout my
14:53
whole teenage years, every Saturday I was up at 4 o'clock to put my stuff together and get down
14:58
there. The market opened at 6 a.m. And we were about 20 years ahead of our time and, you know,
15:06
started to building a reputation. And when you get retail dollar, you don't have to turn as many
15:13
pounds or widgets or things. And so when I went to college, then we shut it down because nobody
15:20
in the family was able or wanted to keep the stand going. By the time I came home from college,
15:25
the two elderly matrons left shortly after I left. I think I probably added a couple of years
15:31
to their life there. But I wouldn't trade that for the world. I mean, they showed me how to talk to
15:36
customers, how to display things, how to price things, just invaluable for this little kid. And
15:42
he's two, two, grandma, ladies. And I wouldn't trade it for anything. And so came back and then
15:48
the market was gone. Grandfather is gone. Okay, so what do we do? And we basically had to, you know,
15:53
start over building a brand, a reputation and all that over again. But you know, over time, it developed.
16:01
And so did this rebuild happen before you and your wife did the one year of savings and all that
16:08
was before then? No, no. I came back from college. I got married within a year after that. She graduated
16:17
then a semester early. She was smarter than I was. And so actually, I was just, I was on the debate
16:26
team all the time. She actually knuckled down and went to two summer schools to finish early. And so,
16:32
so no, we got married and lived in the apartment. I'm working in there and we start saving. And we
16:43
just start saving like crazy. And and and I started, I guess, while I was still there at the newspaper,
16:51
I sold some beef to, you know, some of the folks that worked there at the newspaper. But we didn't
16:56
really start, we didn't create poly face until until I came back to the farm. Remember, dad,
17:02
it was an accountant. So for tax reasons, we started, you know, a corporation to have tax
17:08
special things. And, and so that was in 1982 that we that we started that. So it wasn't a long it
17:16
wasn't, you know, I graduated from college in 79. I'm back on the farm September 82. So I mean,
17:23
I'm only talking, we're only talking about three years here. So it was a, it was a pretty quick,
17:27
pretty quick thing. And so for you and your wife, you save all this money, you're living very
17:32
frugally. You even said in the lunatic farmer documentary on Angel Studios, guys, it's in the show
17:37
notes, you should check it out. She's even more frugal than you. And all this, this whole time,
17:41
I'm like, this is one of the most frugal guys ever. And he's like, no, my wife's a really the
17:44
frugal one. And so you save up. And then you say, okay, we've got enough to sustain ourselves,
17:50
you know, financially for the next year, take us back to that time, like what were the conversations
17:55
like with you and your bride in terms of, okay, is this just a one year experiment? Hey, we're
18:00
just going to take a year off from career. And then, but we assume that we're going back
18:04
or because, you know, spoiler alert, guys, you never went back to anything like it was the farm.
18:09
You did that year and that's where you've been ever since the two of you. But like,
18:13
what was the feeling that first year? Did y'all kind of have a feeling that it would be like this,
18:17
or did you have no idea? About 50 50. Okay. But, but, you know, bless her heart. She trusted me.
18:25
She trusted me to, to, to make whatever happened, had to happen. We had Daniel by that time. We had
18:33
our first son at that point. And, and so she's, you know, wrapped up with him. And of course,
18:40
then, you know, she, she's here. And I mean, she, she was my, you know, she was my, my hand,
18:47
my sidekick. I mean, she drove the tractor. You know, we, we just did everything together. And so,
18:54
it was, it was just, it was a wonderful way to start a marriage. You know, we were just here
18:59
together. Didn't have any money, but we had each other and we had a dream. We had a dream to farm
19:04
full-time. And our mission state was very simple, you know, make a living on the farm. And so,
19:11
that's the way we, that's the way we proceeded. It took about three years for us to get to where
19:15
we could exhale. But, but remember, you know, she, she could sow anything. We had a big garden. I
19:23
mean, she can, I don't know what 800 quarts of stuff a summer. We ate out of the garden. We, we just,
19:29
we just didn't buy, we didn't buy anything. And, and, and the big surprise, the big surprise,
19:36
the thing that surprised me, was how, how our expenses came down even further. Because not having
19:45
to drive to work every day, we went from filling up the gas tank from once a week to once a month.
19:51
We, and, and, and the slippage on the farm, you know, I was there when the green beans needed to
19:57
be weeded. I was there. I didn't have to wait till I was home from work, you know, on Saturday.
20:01
I was there for every, you know, cow that birthed. If she had trouble, I could help her,
20:05
you know, have a live calf and not come home and find a dead calf. You know, those kind of,
20:10
what I call slippage, a lot of things in farming are very time sensitive. And so, so by being here,
20:18
we were able to, you know, to be in that, in that realm. And, and, and I was picking up whatever
20:26
I could do. I, I did a couple odd jobs, helped a guy plant trees one spring. I helped, I, I put
20:31
in a bunch of fence posts for a guy by hand through some woods. So he wouldn't have to cut the trees.
20:36
And, you know, and when you're doing a couple cash things like that, and you get, and you're
20:40
living on $300 a month, and you get, you know, $900 for a, for a job, you know, for a little,
20:46
you know, side gig, that goes a long way, you know, to, to making things work.
20:51
And so that's kind of, you know, that's kind of what we did. And it's, it stressed that little nest
20:56
egg out. And we were, you know, we were able to make it.
21:01
Hey guys, real quick, as you've heard me describe before, I am incredibly conservative
21:06
about the supplements that I take. I spent years being terrified of putting different products in
21:11
my body because I didn't know what they were made with or if it was going to be kind of fly by
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night companies using all kinds of crazy ingredients. So I've always wanted to partner with an American
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company that only uses the highest quality ingredients. And that's why I want to remind you that we
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energy drinks. I finally decided what my favorite was. And that's pink lemonade. That is my favorite
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of all their flavors. But they also have the best tasting greens powder on the market. I prefer
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to get 10% off your order. It's such a cool story for early marriage. I mean, my wife and I started
22:39
in a 500 square foot duplex. And I mean, I've told the story before, but we splurged and bought
22:44
one of those big pizzas from Sam's. And you know, that was like going to be two or three meals for
22:49
us. And we get back to the house. And the fridge was too small because the place we were living in
22:53
had this tiny fridge. And so we, but hey, blessing, it was below freezing. And there was ice on the
23:00
ground in Oklahoma at the time. So I'm like, Oh, I'm smart. I went to college. I'm just going to set
23:04
this on the back porch, right? And then we'll cook it in the morning because no one's going to
23:07
cook a pizza and eat at nine o'clock at night. Well, we get out there the next morning and some
23:12
varmint, some something had gotten there and had to eat the inside of the pizza. Yeah, raccoon or
23:16
something. And I mean, we're sitting there and I'm looking at that as like a microcosm of my inability
23:21
to be a man and to like, you know, provide and all the stuff. And so it's a funny story now. It
23:25
certainly wasn't funny at the moment, but it was funny now looking back. But you have so many of
23:29
those stories. But one thing that was interesting about the documentary and looking at some of your
23:33
work, and then we'll get into some more specifics. So we're still just kind of flying over. It kind
23:38
of seems like I don't know if it coincided with every decade or every half decade. It seemed like
23:44
you would learn so much about a particular thing that it would just aid in your overall ability to
23:50
be more effective on this land. And so let's let's talk about the process that you went through
23:56
over the years because initially, as you mentioned, the land was not for like this beautiful lush
24:02
land that it is today. But over the years, you would just learn a little here and learn a little
24:07
there. And then now you have this, you know, bustling place that people are are coming from all over
24:12
to check out. So it's talked to me a little bit about about that process of, okay, you've gotten
24:16
through the first three years, you can breathe, right, you can exhale a little bit. But now it's
24:21
like, okay, how do we really start to maximize? Yeah, so yeah, so, you know, I think I think a lot
24:31
of it, a lot of our success has been somewhat serendipitous. You know, we didn't we didn't make
24:36
a 20 year plan. We've never made a business plan, you know, we just we just try to be faithful.
24:42
And so I'm learning, you know, how do we how do we run the cows better? I, you know, we added we
24:49
added the chickens. And then eventually we added pigs, we were never really interested in raising
24:56
hogs. But I was at a I was at a seminar and saw some pigs on top of a pile of horse horse stable
25:03
cleanings steam coming up on it. And I had this revelation epiphany about, well, we could we don't
25:08
have to make compost by all this labor of turning it and all this stuff. We can let the pigs do that.
25:14
So we started, you know, having the pigs do that kind of work. I had a I had a little portable
25:21
portable chicken thing on bicycle wheels, you know, 40 chickens in there on bicycle wheels. I
25:27
moved it around with a little, you know, a little, some, some, you know, fence that I could, I could
25:33
kind of a hexagon, you know, three, three trifold gates that I could kind of, you know,
25:38
fold together and move around. Anyway, one day I, I'm moving that thing and we'd had the cows in
25:46
there a couple of days before and the chickens moved into where the cows were and I saw the cows
25:52
rip up, go for all the cow patties, eat out the fly larva and spread all the cow patties out.
25:58
My lens, the lights went off my head and said, wow, we could we could chicken could could do this.
26:04
And so I quickly fixed the little things so it would little house so it would put on a three
26:08
point hitch on a tractor, started moving it behind the cows. And suddenly, you know, they
26:13
eliminated all the flies, they, they spread out the cow pies and ate half the feed, half the feed
26:19
they were eating. And so then the next year I built a, you know, an egg mobile. That's how the
26:23
egg mobile was born. And, and so a lot of it is just how do I, how do I figure out how to do this
26:31
without spending any money? How do I do it by allowing an animal to express its, to express its gift
26:43
and its talent, you know, a pig to root a chicken to scratch, those kind of a cow, a cow to mow.
26:48
How do I tap into those in their fullness of distinctive expression? We could say their glory
26:56
and, and, and so by observation and looking at, well, how did God design this, you know,
27:07
gradually these, these things, you know, came, came up. And I mean, the, the whole, you know,
27:15
the pastured chicken thing, which is still kind of our, our centerpiece, claim to fame, if you will,
27:23
that came serendipulously, dad had gone and seen, and he got excited about portable infrastructure.
27:31
So my older brother was trying to raise rabbits. So dad made a rabbit cage that we could move around.
27:36
But the rabbits would dig out and we, and you can't catch a rabbit. If a rabbit gets out, I mean,
27:41
it's gone, you know, the 22 bullet about is the only thing that you can catch a rabbit with. And so,
27:46
so we, we, we, we tried for a couple of years and it wouldn't work. But, you know, being farmers,
27:52
you don't, you don't throw stuff away. So we pulled those old rabbit cages up in the shed,
27:57
rafters. And so I'm, you know, I'm in my teen years, I need to more chicken space. And dad just
28:03
off-handed said, Hey, we got those old rabbit things up there in the shed wrap. Why don't you
28:07
pull those down and put chickens in them? So I did, I fixed up a nest box and a little covering and
28:11
stuff, put chickens in them. And that's how the pastured chicken thing was born. Literally, I mean,
28:18
people think we sit around in some sort of academic focus group, you know, and innovate. No, no, no,
28:23
no, you, you, you do, you do, you go. And, and as you're doing and you're going is kind of, you know,
28:31
me being in the way, you know, in whatever invention and creativity finds you as you, as you're in
28:40
the way. And so the interesting thing about that, Joel, is as I was, you know, again, going through
28:44
the documentary and seeing, okay, this is what you started to learn about the cattle and this is
28:49
what you started learning about the chickens. And then you started learning about, you know,
28:51
the different grasses and different areas and things like that. And it went back to a quote that
28:56
I've heard you say, and that was at the early point of the documentary, which is every single
29:00
morning, you step into a physical expression of God's abundance. Okay, and you've said a lot
29:04
before, like we don't have a scarcity planet, we have an abundance planet. And so having an
29:08
abundance mindset as it pertains to environmentalism or farming or any of those types of things that
29:13
are even tangentially related, people start to get a little bit weird. It's like, no, no, no,
29:18
it's zero some like there's not abundance here. So how did you develop that mindset? Because
29:24
obviously whenever you see these operations where the cattle are over here, the hogs are over there
29:29
and the and everything else is like spread out and all those different things, you don't see things
29:33
working in concert, I can see how you could come to that, that summarizes conclusion. But for you,
29:38
like, what's your argument for it? No, we don't have a scarcity plan. We got an abundance planet.
29:42
Well, I guess my starting point these days is just to realize that pre European North America
29:50
produced more food 500 years ago than it does today. And now it wasn't all eaten by people. You
29:56
know, we had a couple hundred million bison elk and deer and of course, you know, passenger pigeons
30:03
in flock so big, they blocked out the sun for a day or two. We had, you know, we had 200 million
30:09
beavers, some of which we now know were as big as a Volkswagen automobile. And just the beavers
30:16
alone ate more vegetables or ate more vegetation than all the people in North America today. And so,
30:23
and so, you know, this this abundance has several principles with it. One is the symbiosis of
30:34
of complex relation relationships among animals and plants. You don't you don't see monocrops,
30:39
you don't see monocultures, you don't see, you know, a chicken farm, a cow farm, you know,
30:46
it's in nature, it's in gauze design, it's very intricately integrated, not segregated. And so,
30:54
so as we started stacking, and that's a permaculture concept, permaculture is all about
31:02
how do we stack enterprises. So when we have an acre of pasture, it's not just used for cows,
31:09
it's used for cows and meat chickens and layer chickens and turkeys and sheep and ducks. And you
31:17
add all these things together and suddenly that acre, instead of turning, you know, $800 like it
31:22
would on a on a productive cattle farm, it's turning $30,000 because of the the stacked enterprises
31:29
and the and the manure of the poultry grows more grass for the cows. So it's it's completely
31:35
symbiotic. And and and so the flourishing the flourishing of the abundance is is just beyond
31:46
almost beyond comprehension as to what it can be. And so yeah, it's it's it's all good.
31:53
Now, I mean, the flourishing of abundance, I love that even just as a phrase. And so for me,
31:56
there was one thing this is going to get a little granular and then we'll back back out a little
32:00
bit to stay in the world of philosophical. But you're you're talked a lot about the differences in beef
32:05
production. And you know, we have a, you know, I get a box from a company that produces beef in the
32:11
Shenandoah Valley every month. And so we love getting our boxes of beef and all that. So I've
32:14
learned a little bit about it. But you talked about the the best way that you found is moving
32:20
mobbing mowing, okay, moving mobbing mowing. But then these kind of mass beef production
32:26
places, none of that matters. It's faster, fatter, bigger, cheaper. It doesn't really matter what
32:32
happens with the animals. You know, I've heard you talk about before, like if you create a lower
32:36
stress environment, that is better for the animals overall. Again, if you're not a farmer,
32:40
if you've never dealt with animals, if you've never done for age, like none of that's going to make
32:43
sense to you, you're like, it's meat is meat. What does it matter? You know, you do kill the animal,
32:48
take the meat. And so just talk to me even in a granular fashion about beef, because you're
32:52
talking to an audience of beef eaters here. And so we'd love to know kind of what you've
32:56
figured out and the best practices there. Well, so so beef is an herbivore. I mean,
33:02
let's take it down to its brass tacks here in herbivore. What's the reason for an herbivore?
33:07
And the reason for an herbivore is because vegetation, which is which is basically
33:13
a leaf is a solar panel. That solar panel is collecting solar sun energy.
33:22
So the entire planet is sun-driven. That's S-U-N. The spiritual analogies here are just up the
33:30
wazoo. That's right. The earth is sun-driven. Our spiritual life should be sun-driven, S-O-N
33:38
driven. Okay. That's where the energy comes from. And so the S-U-N driven vegetation grows,
33:45
but the problem is that it goes into senescence. You know, grass grows up, and then it goes into
33:51
senescence and quits and turns brown and quits metabolizing sun energy into into a vegetative
33:57
growth. So the herbivore, that's why there's so many of them around the planet from, you know,
34:01
giraffes to zebras or wildebeest llamas, alpacas, cows, water buffalo, you know, deer, elk, all
34:08
the sheep. The reason is because this vegetation needs to be pruned, pruned back so that it stays
34:20
in a freshened vegetative state so it doesn't go into stagnation out at senescence. And so
34:27
that's the reason for the herbivore. And the way nature does this is these herbivores are moving
34:35
to fresh ground. They're mobbed up for predator protection, and they're mowing. They're not eating,
34:42
you know, hoho cakes and leftover, you know, little Debbie's, you know, sugar cinnamon rolls
34:48
from the bakery or chicken manure or feathers or that sort of thing, like we feed them in this
34:53
country. So moving mobbing mowing, and when you mimic moving mobbing mowing, that herbivore
35:00
fulfills, it fulfills, it's, it's God designed task. It's reason for being
35:08
and completely exemplifies its distinctiveness, its special gifts and talents.
35:15
If you, if you deprive that herbivore of any one of those three things, moving mobbing mowing,
35:22
if you don't adhere to any one of those three, it turns the herbivore from an asset into a liability.
35:28
And 90, you know, whatever, 97% of all the domestic livestock in the world
35:34
violate at least one of those moving mobbing mowing, and some of them violate all three.
35:40
And so this, this is where, you know, the environmentalists are exactly right,
35:46
has overgrazing hurt a lot of land? Yes. Has feeding cows corn hurt a lot of land? Yes.
35:53
Are feedlots bad? The answer is yes, feedlots are bad. Cows in nature cow herbivore would never
36:00
eat all that corn and all that, you know, single use material and get that fat and grow that fast.
36:06
So, so, so, so I say, you know, when I see, you know, documentaries like Calspiracy and stuff and it,
36:14
it impunes conventional agriculture, I'm saying, hey, man, hey, man, preach it, preach it. But the
36:20
answer is not veganism. The answer then is to repent and sackcloth and ashes for what we've done.
36:28
And then, and then take our big intellectual mind and our mechanical ability, you know, with
36:33
opposing thumbs and say, okay, this head and these hands that have hurt can also heal.
36:40
And so we don't practice environmentalism by abandonment. Oh, every time we touch the,
36:48
touch the environment, we heard it. Oh, we can't touch it. We got to lock it up in parks and, and,
36:53
you know, government land and wilderness areas. No, we actually, we actually brush ourselves off
37:01
after we've repented and we pick ourselves up and we participate as hands and feet of God in massaging
37:10
his creation, his provision. You know, he could do this with angels, he could do it with cherubim,
37:18
gonna, he could do it with the, with the strength of his voice, but he has chosen us
37:24
to be the stewards to, to massage, to caress this object lesson of his provision to us.
37:31
What a great privilege, what an honor. And so this is not about abandonment. It's about
37:36
participation. It's about engaging, engaging in partnership with God to give him a return on
37:46
investment. And you know, if, if the earth were mine and I saw three legged salamanders, infertile
37:53
frogs, eagle eggs that wouldn't hatch and a dead zone the size of a Rhode Island in the Gulf of
37:58
Mexico, I would say, Hey, somebody messed this up. You know, that's not a good return on investment.
38:04
And so that's what we're after. And, and as a result of our pilgrimage, that there be more soil,
38:11
more water, more breathable air, more functional immune systems, robust immune systems,
38:18
more pollinators, all of those elements that, that make this work together.
38:23
And so certainly we, you're discussing the dominion mandate that we all have in our
38:27
participation in that. And so I guess participation is basically the game here because one of the
38:33
first things that whenever I first became aware of your work, it may have been whenever you were
38:36
on Joe Rogan experience or something like that. And you've heard this question a million times,
38:40
but perhaps not everyone in my audience has heard your answer. And so it's like, okay, you advocate
38:45
for changing the way that we approach farming and changing the way that we approach the ecosystem
38:50
and environmentalism. And then people automatically will ask, well, is there enough unspoken for land
38:56
area in this country to farm in the way that you're describing? Can we feed the number of people 350
39:03
ish million people here in this country? Well, what about the other seven or eight billion people
39:08
around the globe? Okay, great. But that's pine sky, Joel, like we can't possibly pull that off.
39:14
It's not like God thought about this before we got here. So what is your answer to those people
39:18
that are just like, where's the space? How are we going to pull this off?
39:21
Oh, my well, first, first of all, for the first time in human history, we are throwing away about
39:28
40% of all human edible food. That's never happened in, in, in history. So, so, you know, we, we're
39:37
producing, we're over producing by about 40% right now. And, and so that, that's a first answer.
39:45
A second is that our current system is highly segregated. The cows are here. The, the, the corn
39:52
is here. The, the, the chemical fertilizer is up in Russia or Morocco. And, and, and it's all, it's
40:00
completely separated. The way God set this up, God did not set this up so that at my farm here in
40:07
Virginia, I would have to be dependent on Vladimir Putin for fertility. He set it up so that
40:14
everything that I need to be fertile is right here in situ. It's, it's, it, it doesn't need to be
40:21
shipped from elsewhere. And so, so as we, as we do this, the truth is that the productivity per
40:33
square yard per acre goes way, way up. I mean, in Augusta County, the cow days per acre, a cow
40:39
day is what one cow will eat in a day. In Augusta County, where we live, the cow day per acre averages
40:44
80 cow days per acre on our farm, we average over 300 cow days per acre. And, and so, so if that
40:52
happened throughout the county, throughout the state, throughout the nation, you know, we could,
40:56
you know, we could double our production very, very quickly. We have, and, and if you want to,
41:02
you know, go a little bit further, you know, with our outdoor pigs, for example, our pastured pigs,
41:08
we don't save any feed, but we use marginal, marginal land. How much marginal land is it?
41:15
Every state forest, every national park, every forest service land, every Bureau of Land Management,
41:20
there is so much unused land in this country. And of course, you know, I'm, I'd be in favor of the
41:26
Bureau of Land Management, disbanding and selling all that to individuals to be able to, you know,
41:31
grow stuff on instead of having it just wasted. But anyway, we are, we are not lacking for land.
41:39
We've got 35 million acres of lawn. We've got 36 million acres housing and feeding recreational
41:45
horses. That's enough to feed the whole country without a single farm. We've got, we've got land
41:52
up the wazoo and, and not only that, but the US does not have to feed the world. I travel in a lot
42:01
worldwide doing seminars and meeting farmers, meeting people, and, and listen, US exports
42:07
have caused way, way more harm than good throughout the planet, especially in Africa with, with free,
42:14
you know, free food. And it displaces the local economy. And, and, and every country in the world
42:21
can feed itself. There's not a, there's not a country in the world that can't feed itself,
42:25
and, uh, including us. And so, uh, hoe your own garden, you know, uh, feed yourself. And, uh,
42:33
we'll be just fine. There's, there's plenty of land. Okay. And so Joel, that's the, it can happen
42:38
part, but now it's the, will it happen? Okay. Because obviously you don't just have these
42:44
large cattle and chicken and whatever else operations being operated by robots, at least not yet,
42:49
AI revolution and whatnot. But as of right now, there are people that have a very vested
42:54
financial interest in keeping things precisely the way that they are. They, they donate money to
42:59
some environmentalist causes here and there to get the people off their backs so that they're not
43:03
outside the gates of the facility screaming with their purple hair and their flags and all the
43:06
things. But for the most part, they're just trying to keep the gravy train running. So it can happen.
43:13
It is possible specifically in this country, but will it happen? And what's in the way of it
43:19
happening quicker? Oh, well, the, the first thing that's in the way of it happening quicker is the
43:26
USDA, uh, you know, the subsidies that incentivize monocrops and make and make cheap, make cheap corn,
43:34
cheap soybeans and, and skew everything, including, you know, uh, snap benefits and, and, uh, that,
43:42
that, that sends $10 billion to Coca Cola, Dr. Pepper and, and, uh, and Mountain Dew. So, uh, so
43:48
there's a, there's a perverse incentive in the country, uh, for doing this sort of thing. And, uh,
43:56
a perverse incentive with the government involvement in healthcare. It makes people lack
44:02
a daisical about taking care of their own health. And so you have, you have a cheap food policy
44:08
that perversely incentivizes the worst kind of foods is that of the best kind of foods. And then
44:13
you have a medical interventionist system that makes people think, well, whatever happens,
44:17
the government will take care of me. And I don't, and I'm not responsible for my decisions. You
44:21
add those up. And suddenly you've got an extremely irresponsible populace that is, that is incentivized
44:28
to buy junk. And that's exactly what we've got and why our, our sickness index is going through
44:34
the roof. The US of the 40, the 40 rich developed countries in the world, the US is dead last by
44:41
long shot, dead last on non-infectious morbidity. You know, we like to have the, the best gymnast,
44:47
you know, in Simone Biles, we love to have the best baseball team. We love to have the best soccer
44:52
team. Uh, there are places where you don't want to be number one and you don't want to be number one
44:57
in chronic non-infectious morbidity, but that's where we are. But we, we invented, you know, we
45:02
invented McDonald's, we invented hot pockets and squeezable Velveeta cheese and, um, you know, uh,
45:09
GMOs and DDT. And so there's a reason why we lead the world in this chronic movement, which has,
45:16
of course, hatched the Maha movement. Right. And the Maha movement is very real. And, you know,
45:22
now we've just learned in the last two days that the autism rate is now one in 31, just, it just,
45:28
it just went up again from one in 34 to one in 31. And, um, and so, you know, we have a, we have a
45:34
real, we have a real, uh, a sickness problem. And so, um, what, what will it take? Well, it'll take,
45:42
it'll take individual people realizing, I can't, I can't abide this junk anymore. Just like when you,
45:50
when you're in a, in a liberal church and you get tired of, of being fed, you know, um, uh,
45:58
baby stuff all day and, and, uh, maybe you've got a woman, a woman pastor and the denomination,
46:05
starts, you know, ordaining homosexuals. And, um, I think, I think I'm, I think I'm, I'm okay
46:11
with your audience on this. I think you're, um, yeah. And what happens, you come to a day and you say,
46:17
you know what, we're not, I'm not, I'm not standing for this anymore. It was like the homeschool
46:22
movement, you know, the homeschool movement was nascent, uh, for so many years. And then when the
46:27
10 commandments came off the walls, a lot of parents said, whoa, wait a minute, you know, uh, uh, and,
46:32
and, and then COVID suddenly parents realized, oh, you meet, you're learning that. Oh, and, and, uh,
46:38
and so we've seen homeschooling just, just straight line skyrocket in the last four years as parents
46:44
reached the stomach turning point. And so I think, I think that, that, that just like we've seen in
46:48
these other areas, cultures do move, they move very rapidly when, when, uh, when a movement, uh,
46:57
start, when, when a stomach turning point gets reached and, um, and we may, we may be there with
47:04
this whole, you know, this whole sickness index. I don't know. But, uh, but it certainly feels like
47:10
we're heading there, you know, with the maha movement. Yeah. Cultures do move. We're seeing
47:15
several places in the United States move and ping more conservative. Canada was set to do that.
47:20
And then I guess Trump really needed to just pretend like they were just going to be our 51st
47:24
date and they didn't like that very much. And then the election didn't really go the way that it
47:26
should have. But hey, they're Canadians. What are they going to do? Uh, except vote. Um, but I guess
47:31
the thing that's interesting, there's also a movement here, Joel, where there's a lot of prominent
47:36
people that either used to be atheists or used to be agnostics or used to be Muslims that are now
47:40
coming out as Christian. You have guys like one of the four horsemen and new atheism, right? Richard
47:44
Dawkins coming out saying is a cultural Christian. You have Wes Huff going on your buddy Joe Rogan's
47:48
podcast and basically giving a blistering gospel presentation right in Joe Rogan's face into an
47:54
audience of tens of millions by the time, you know, the clips are all done and watched. And we see,
47:59
you know, young men going back to, back to church, Bible sales going through the roof.
48:04
We've looked at things like the atheism movement and culture and the woke movement and people are
48:08
like, wait a minute, these are just ideas. These are worldviews. Like you can't, you can't operate
48:13
using that as your foundation because it's a foundation that has its feet planted firmly in
48:17
midair. But this is kind of in your world a little bit, Joel, because you talk about, excuse me,
48:22
how the Christian community has been emasculated by the environmentalist movement. You've obviously
48:28
talked about how God is certainly at the center point of all the work that you are doing. So,
48:32
so what's your read? Because, you know, I'm in the Christian manhood space all the time,
48:37
right? I don't like talking about men's ministry because people just think programming and you know,
48:40
six a.m. prayer breakfast and stuff like that. I like talking about man friendly churches and
48:45
kind of a men's movement that's Christ centered, right? And so what's your read about the movement
48:50
of culture kind of away from some of these more satanic ideas or left wing ideas, but I repeat
48:56
myself and basically what people are doing to reject that. Yeah, it's a great question. And so
49:03
I would simply say that the that this this idea of earth of creation stewardship
49:11
is fast becoming the litmus test of credibility for our for our Christian testimony. And the faith
49:21
community has allowed itself to get co-opted by the by the by the creation worshiping environmental
49:28
movement. It's allowed it's allowed stewardship to be co-opted by that group rather than owning
49:36
that space. And so if we because believe me and I've grown up with my feet in both of these camps,
49:44
you know, I've spoken at, you know, twice at at UC Berkeley and you know, Stanford and Princeton
49:51
and Rutgers and you know, most Christians don't get asked to go there. But but I get a positive
49:56
reception even when I talk about sanctity of life and creation in a week and those kind of
50:02
things, they can forgive that in me because they believe I'm wrestling with consistency.
50:08
And they don't see Christians wrestling with consistency. When when a right to life rally occurs
50:14
and mom takes her children to happy meals at McDonald's, which is the, you know, the the most
50:21
anti anti stewardship, anti environmental kind of anti God's creation kind of thing in the world,
50:27
they view that with the same level of inconsistent Hippocratic understanding as we view somebody
50:36
that's willing to risk our life to save a baby whale or chain themselves to a tree and has no
50:41
problem ripping a baby out of a womb. We look at that, that's unspeakably inconsistent Hippocratic.
50:47
What's the deal here? And so we're guilty the same thing. The problem is if you go to your average
50:54
especially conservative church to an elder and you say, hey, how about we don't have styrofoam
50:59
plates at the potluck next week? And instead we use paper plates or better yet, let's go to the
51:04
Salvation Army by a bunch of mismatched plates. We'll wash them and we won't have any trash to
51:09
take out after the potluck. The first impression you're going to get. What are you some sort of,
51:15
you know, tree hugger, environmental pinko, greeny, weeny, you know, kind of, and you can't even have
51:22
the discussion. And I can assure you, I can assure you that a practical, a practical adherence,
51:35
a practical intentional understanding of does God care? Does God care how a chicken is raised?
51:44
When you sit down for your meal and you look through that chicken and that pee and that carrot
51:51
and you see the landscape behind that, has your funding funded God's kingdom or Satan's kingdom?
51:58
Has it, has it funded, has it funded a healing system or a, or a sickness system? Has it funded
52:06
a stewardship system or a rapist exploitive system? And when we start, when we start connecting those
52:14
dots, Kyle, we start connecting those dots, we suddenly are overwhelmed with the, not only the,
52:21
the privilege of presenting a consistent view to the world, but, but the responsibility
52:28
of doing that as well as part of our, I would say our consistent testimony to our friends and
52:36
neighbors. So when, when, when somebody says, well, why don't you use chemicals? Why do you use compost?
52:41
I can look at them and say, well, it's because the way God, God set it up. Really? God set it up?
52:46
Yeah. And then we can have this, this wonderful discussion about God's dominion over the planet.
52:51
And it's not just growing fatter, faster, bigger, cheaper. And animals aren't just inanimate piles
52:57
of protoplasmic structure to be manipulated. However, hubris can imagine to manipulate them.
53:01
And the tomato, uh, uh, actually communicates with the fungi and the fungi communicates with
53:07
the actinomycetes. And it's an amazing cosmic sentience from the mind of God. And we can bring
53:14
that to our community in a consistent, non hypocritical way. Joel, you said that, that was so good.
53:19
You said something in, in, uh, I wish I, I should have submitted it to memory, but you literally picked
53:24
up a two fistfuls of soil. And you said that we, we only know what percentage, we only have names
53:29
for what percentage of what's in that soil. Ten, ten percent. So 90% of the stuff of the
53:36
bio, whatever that's going on in that fertile soil, we don't even have names for it. And it's
53:42
kind of like one of those things like, I'm stealing this from like a old Christian rapper back in
53:45
the day, but it's like scientists try to tell us that the, you know, exactly how everything came to
53:50
be and, you know, how time, space and matter had a timeless, faceless and material beginning. But
53:54
science also can't explain yawning. And so it's like, all right, how much are, how, how far
53:58
are we going to be taking this? But, but Joel, I'm just curious for you. We'll make this the last
54:02
question of the day. It's just what's next. Okay. So you, you've done the seminars, you've done the
54:06
trainings, you got documentaries, you've been on Joe Rogan, you got people that think you're crazy,
54:10
you got people that think you're the best and you're amazing and that we should follow everything
54:13
that you say they want you to write your own version of the Bible. Okay, we'll give you a
54:18
shots and Thomas Jefferson screwed up so bad. Okay. But in that type of thing, what's next? Like,
54:23
what's next for you in this stage of life in this stage of your career in terms of leaving a legacy
54:28
and leaving a lasting impact on the planet? Oh, my well, first of all, I'm, you know, as long as I,
54:37
as long as I have my mind and my health, I plan to continue writing. I've got another book coming
54:42
out this year. That'll be number 17. So, you know, the pen is more powerful than the sword. And so I
54:47
just keep trying to articulate this in ways that will attract people, make them, you know, make them
54:54
confident and be endearing, you know, to two people so that they will follow this. But right now,
54:59
I will tell you that, yeah, I feel like Cinderella, you know, I've been banished to the ashes all
55:04
my life and suddenly I've been asked to the ball to be dancing in some pretty high places. And so
55:10
my orbit has gone up, you know, I mean, about a month ago, I was speaking at a conference somewhere
55:18
and I got to the hotel room, the phone rang. And it was Bobbi Kent, RFK Jr. calling me. He said,
55:24
I need some advice on his bird flu stuff, you know. And so I'm having access. So right now,
55:30
I'm will be very as transparent as I know, Kyle. Right now, I'm looking for a 30 minute audience
55:37
with President Trump to pitch him the idea of a food emancipation proclamation so that neighbors
55:45
can transact food business with each other without a federal government agent in between.
55:50
Right now, we have choice in the bedroom, choice in the bathroom, choice in the womb,
55:55
and no choice in the kitchen. And if you think we have choice, look at the last recall that happened,
56:02
when you see the press releases on the recall, you know, whatever it is, and it'll list the brands,
56:08
the brands that are being recalled. There's 25 brands, well, it all came out of the same
56:12
spigot, the same thing. We desperately need to allow neighbor to neighbor
56:17
food transactions. If there's a lady in your church that makes a wonderful chicken pot pie,
56:24
you should be able to buy it from her without a federal agent involved in her
56:29
having 10 licenses and a $200,000 culinary inspected facility. You trust Aunt Matilda,
56:36
she likes you, she can bring her pot pie to church. You can get it, you know, I mean, this is the
56:42
kind of thing that will unleash entrepreneurism, rural revitalization, and chip away. Right now,
56:49
we've got AOC and Bernie Sanders running around the country. We've got to stop the oligarchy,
56:54
the oligarchy, you know, we got to stop the oligarchy. Well, the quickest way to stop the oligarchy
56:59
is not in their view to socialize the government and make the government in charge of everything
57:04
instead of private oligarchies. The way to stop it is with freedom and liberty from the bottom
57:11
so that neighbor to neighbor food commerce can happen, farmers can enter the marketplace,
57:16
and we will chip away if not collapse that oligarchy very, very quickly. And so I can't think, Kyle,
57:25
I can't think of anything more Trumpian than a food emancipation proclamation to take the shackles
57:32
off of our food system, off of our farmers, off of our kitchens, and let us actually interact
57:38
in food commerce, neighbor to neighbor in the country. I can't think of anything that would
57:44
be more consistent with his style and his entrepreneurial desire than to have him walk out and say,
57:53
today, I'm issuing the food emancipation proclamation so neighbors can buy food from
57:59
neighbors without a federal government agent between them. I just think it would be perfect.
58:03
I'm continuing to cast my bread on the waters and hoping that I get that 30-minute audience at
58:11
some point. I think he would love it. I think he would say it's the biggest thing ever,
58:15
the biggest thing that's ever happened. And so this will be huge. This will be huge. He'll do it
58:20
with 10 exclamation points and all caps on true social. But hey, we got to get you on to the next
58:25
thing, Joel, but that's all for me. Is there anything else you want to get off your chest?
58:29
No. The only thing that I always like to say when I get a chance like this is if you don't like
58:36
what's going on in the culture, you can make a list to be angry about, frustrated about the
58:42
dystopian, dysfunctional culture we have right now is your audience knows it very, very well.
58:49
But my encouragement is that we should, as believers, as our mandate, we should be striving
58:57
to, in every area of our life, to bring, to create new models, new ways of thinking, new ways of doing,
59:08
so that we provide hope and help when everybody else becomes hopeless and helpless. That's what
59:16
we can bring. Very good. Joel, thanks again for coming on. Thank you for having me.
59:20
There you go, guys. I hope you enjoyed my time with the lunatic farmer. But before we let you go,
59:25
we are going to do a quick resilience boost add a don to life or mission is equipping men to push
59:28
back darkness with content that forges spiritual mental and physical resilience. A couple links for
59:32
your day about a link to Joel's blog, the lunatic farmer.com and a link to Joel's Angel Studios
59:37
documentary. And so again, support Angel Studios, support the stuff that they make. And I was going
59:41
to put a link in here to some of the specific books. But guys, just go to Amazon. He's such a
59:45
prolific writer. And so I suppose putting like what do you say, 17 books is what he's on to now,
59:50
suppose putting like 16 links there in the show notes, go support your local bookseller, whatever,
59:54
and buy Joel's work. Thank you for listening to this podcast. Wherever you're listening to this,
59:58
please subscribe, rate, and leave us a positive five star review. If you want me to come speak live
1:00:02
at your event or on your podcast, shoot me an email to info@undonton.life. That's i-n-f-o
1:00:08
@undonton.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for
1:00:12
everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way.
1:00:15
Just go to www.undonton.life. And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing
1:00:20
us to use their music for our content. The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua,
1:00:24
which is off their self-titled debut album on Face Down Records. The links are in the description.
1:00:29
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual,
1:00:35
mental, and physical resilience. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
1:01:05
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