0:00
(upbeat music)
0:02
- This is "Undaunted Life" a man's podcast.
0:21
I'm your host Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.
0:24
All right guys, today we've got a special guest
0:26
on the podcast, his name is Jacob Realm.
0:28
So he is the pastor of Trinity Bible Chapel
0:30
in Ontario, Canada.
0:31
He got his master of divinity
0:33
from the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
0:34
there in Kentucky.
0:35
And he's one of the many Canadian pastors
0:37
that ran afoul of the authoritarian Canadian government
0:40
by holding church in 2020 and 2021.
0:43
So that was during all the COVID lockdowns
0:45
and all the different things that were happening up there
0:47
in that crazy authoritarian government
0:48
that is in Canada.
0:50
And at one point, he was facing up to a year in jail
0:53
and a $100,000 fine for violating Canada's
0:56
so-called health restrictions.
0:58
And even to this day, there are millions of dollars
1:01
worth of fines and potential problems
1:03
that are gonna become a problem for him,
1:06
his church, the elders of his church.
1:08
And we talk about all of that in this podcast,
1:10
but the whole reason why this even came to be
1:13
is because he is featured in a new documentary
1:15
called Antichrist and His Ruin,
1:18
which is the main subject matter for today's show.
1:20
And that is gonna be in the show notes.
1:21
But in this interview, we talk about him
1:24
kind of growing up in Canada,
1:26
what Canadian life has been like.
1:28
We talk about Canadian history
1:30
and how it does have a Christian founding,
1:31
but how Christian morality has been eroded over time,
1:35
specifically in the '80s and '90s,
1:36
but even going back to the '60s with things
1:38
that were happening in Pierre Trudeau's government.
1:41
So that is Justin Trudeau's father,
1:42
at least as far as we know his father,
1:44
because there are some different things about
1:46
who might actually be his father,
1:47
but that's not what the subject matter of today is.
1:49
But in this thing, in this discussion today,
1:51
we talk about the things that go on in a government like that
1:55
and how that can have a direct impact
1:58
on families and churches.
1:59
And so when we talk about Antichrist and His Ruin,
2:02
it really details how going from the Puritans
2:05
and John Bunyan and all the way through to today,
2:08
what has happened in Canada to erode the family
2:11
and the church and the capital estate taking over the church.
2:15
But we talked about the threats of pastors being arrested
2:18
and then pastors actually being arrested,
2:20
the need of men to stand up in the face of the predations
2:23
of these authoritarian governments.
2:25
But then one of the things that we talk about
2:26
towards the end, we talk about the concept
2:28
of being kind without being nice.
2:31
And how a lot of people that are kind of in the tone police,
2:34
they wanna talk about, oh, you know,
2:36
the tone of the things you're saying
2:37
is just really, really mean.
2:38
Couldn't you be a little bit nicer?
2:40
But again, you can be kind without being nice
2:43
'cause sometimes you don't need to be nice.
2:46
Sometimes you need to defend the flock.
2:48
Sometimes you need to defend against the predations
2:51
of a dark force that is pushing against you,
2:54
your family, your church and the greater society.
2:56
So I really, really enjoyed my time with Jacob.
2:58
So I'm not gonna keep him from you any longer.
3:00
So without further ado, let's get into it.
3:03
- Jacob Rayoam, welcome done Dawn to Life of Man's Podcast.
3:06
- Thanks for having me.
3:08
- Okay, did I nail the last thing?
3:09
- Yeah, you got it.
3:10
- Did I get it?
3:10
Because like I practiced for all of 15 seconds
3:13
before we got on here.
3:13
So I appreciate you giving me the phonetic spelling of that.
3:16
But to kind of give a, we're gonna be going
3:18
to a lot of different places covering a lot of different
3:20
grounds today in terms of this conversation.
3:23
But let's just start simply, you're a professional Christian.
3:26
So you're a pastor, you've been a pastor for a very long time.
3:29
So I guess let's start there.
3:30
Why did you decide to go into the ministry
3:33
as your profession and then maybe give us an idea
3:35
of how you accepted Christ as well?
3:38
- I went in the ministry 'cause I had a burning desire
3:40
to preach the word of God.
3:41
And I saw that as something that needed to be done,
3:43
especially within my area where I live.
3:47
So I mean, it sprung from I guess a perceived need
3:52
and then a desire that came from that perceived need.
3:55
And I became a Christian when I was I guess 15 or 16 years old,
4:00
15, I grew up in a home where we went to church
4:04
every now and then.
4:06
But then in high school, I met a girl who talked to me
4:09
about, told me about the Lord Jesus and then I'd go to hell
4:13
if I don't put my faith in him and that kind of rattled me a bit.
4:17
And so I picked up a Bible and read it through
4:19
and about a year and a half it took me and through reading it
4:22
through and the conversations I was having,
4:24
I accepted Christ and put my faith in him.
4:28
And then I ended up marrying that girl
4:29
that told me about the Lord originally.
4:32
So we've been married for, I guess 22 years this summer.
4:36
- I was about to say that there was a little twinkle
4:39
in your eye when you mentioned this girl.
4:40
I was like, I'm assuming this girl was attractive
4:42
and she was so attractive you decided to put a ring on it.
4:44
But let's go back to the word that you use quite a bit
4:47
even in just your opening answer there, Jacob.
4:49
And that's need.
4:50
So you saw a need in your area.
4:52
Now, I think you could live anywhere on the globe
4:55
and you would see a need for the gospel of Christ.
4:57
So I don't know that that's necessarily unique.
4:59
But I guess there is some uniqueness
5:01
to being a Christian in Canada
5:03
because you're talking to a mainly American audience
5:05
but I think our second most devoted audience
5:08
is there in Canada.
5:09
So what did you mean by a need in your area?
5:12
- Well, Canadian culture radically secularized
5:15
in the 80s and 90s.
5:17
So secularization started, I think,
5:21
probably a little later in Canada
5:22
than it did in the United States.
5:24
But when it took root, it really moved very rapidly.
5:29
And in our particular, in our geographical area of Canada,
5:32
it's the most populated part of the country.
5:35
So a good chunk of the Canadian population
5:38
lives within two hour drive of where I administer.
5:41
And in the 90s when I was contemplating ministry,
5:45
so late 90s early, I guess early 2008,
5:48
late 90s is when I was contemplating ministry
5:50
and training for ministry.
5:52
That was when the seeker movement really took root
5:55
in this area.
5:57
And so any church that would have historically been
6:01
evangelical and held to the gospel,
6:03
I think most probably 90, maybe 100%,
6:07
but certainly 90%, 99% were infected with the seeker movement,
6:12
which was a real watering down
6:14
of the preached word and a dulling of it
6:18
to appeal to the, I guess,
6:20
carnal senses of the lost to draw crowds in the church.
6:24
And it did draw crowds for a while.
6:26
I don't think it is as much anymore.
6:28
But in doing that, I think most of those churches
6:30
have completely abandoned the gospel.
6:32
And if not abandoned the gospel,
6:34
there's probably some people in them,
6:36
probably maybe lots, but they haven't heard the gospel
6:40
in a long time and quite a few evangelical churches
6:43
in this area, I suspect.
6:44
And I know that from what people tell me,
6:46
when I preach in other venues, what I hear,
6:49
and I preach a sharp gospel message,
6:51
people are like, well, I haven't heard that in years.
6:53
And then every now and then you go to a funeral
6:55
where a pastor will preach from another evangelical church
6:57
and you just leave thinking,
6:58
my goodness, this is what these people are having,
7:00
are being fed, this is terrible.
7:01
So there was a need in our area
7:03
to have a gospel preaching word centered,
7:07
Christ exalting church.
7:09
And I remember even in the early 2000s,
7:12
I was in Bible college at the time
7:14
and a lot of people, John MacArthur showed up
7:18
and preached about 45 minutes south of here,
7:20
an hour south of here.
7:22
And it was in a massive church facility.
7:24
And I sensed then there was a real hungering
7:27
for the Word of God because there was so full,
7:28
there were people sitting on the steps,
7:30
sitting on the platform, next to him,
7:32
listening to him preach and the place was absolutely packed.
7:35
I had a balcony that was packed.
7:36
And I remember thinking at that point in time,
7:39
what these people are saying about the seeker movement,
7:41
that this is how you build a church,
7:42
is just, is nonsense because here's a man
7:46
who has held to the Word of God for years
7:49
and has that reputation and he's in,
7:51
basically, fluent in the town
7:53
and filled up one of the largest church facilities
7:55
in the area.
7:56
So it dawned on me then,
7:58
how much of a hunger there was within this region
8:02
for the preached word, for it to be preached
8:05
in a sharp, cutting, Christ-honoring way.
8:09
- So you used a very specific word
8:11
when you were describing the seeker sensitive movement
8:13
and that was infected,
8:14
that the churches in your area were infected by that.
8:17
So obviously, I didn't grow up in church
8:19
and so all these different modalities
8:21
of how to do ministry.
8:21
I'm still kind of a little fuzzy on that
8:23
because it's like I basically came to Christ as a teenager
8:26
and then on into adulthood and it's just still
8:28
a little bit fuzzy.
8:29
But I get the pragmatic appeal of the seeker sensitive model.
8:33
However, Jacob, when I study the scriptures
8:36
and especially the New Testament and you get into Acts
8:39
and in the different Pauline letters, is it seems
8:41
like the church is for Christians,
8:43
not necessarily the church because it's like
8:46
that's for the equipping of the saints.
8:47
And we talk about parents taking their kids
8:50
out of the public schools and then other Christians are like,
8:52
wait a minute, that's fertile ground for the gospel.
8:55
But it's like, yeah, but kids have not been equipped
8:57
to go into the field to do the spreading of the gospel yet.
9:01
And so talk to me a little bit, I guess,
9:02
about the role of the church because again,
9:04
the pragmatic of the seeker sensitive model seems to be,
9:08
hey, let's just get them, let's attract them
9:10
with as much honey as possible.
9:12
Let's leave the vinegar to the side.
9:13
Let's play secular music so everybody feels comfortable.
9:17
But then the problem is, is they come in feeling comfortable
9:19
and they also leave feeling comfortable
9:20
and the gospel doesn't really leave you with any options.
9:23
So flow on any of that that you want to.
9:25
- Well, the church is a spiritual supernatural organization.
9:30
And so if it's going to be built,
9:34
it's going to be built in a supernatural spiritual way.
9:39
And I think what the seeker sensitive movement did
9:42
is it took marketing techniques that you might learn
9:46
out of business school and business models
9:49
that you might learn out of business school
9:50
and it tried to apply them to the church
9:54
with the hopes of building the organization.
9:56
And I think when you had a pastor with a really,
10:02
I guess charismatic personality
10:04
and really good with people, really good on stage,
10:08
I think it worked to get people into the church
10:13
and then the church would generate a lot of wealth
10:16
and then they could afford to do all these flashy programs
10:19
and spectacles, but did they build a church?
10:24
I don't think they did, I think they built crowds.
10:26
And I think that's why I think the COVID times
10:30
really revealed that because there was all of a sudden
10:33
a lot of churches that didn't want to gather for worship
10:35
and why didn't they want to gather for worship?
10:37
Well, because they haven't been taught
10:38
that the church is about the Lord,
10:39
they've been taught that the church is about them
10:42
or the church is about making their neighbors happy
10:43
or the church is about, I guess, fitting in
10:48
and being sensitive to the surrounding culture.
10:51
And so this was embedded or taught
10:55
or ingrained in these churches for years and years
10:57
and years and years and years and this is what you get,
11:01
it's a disaster.
11:02
And I think a lot of those churches,
11:04
I remember one of the larger, the larger,
11:07
the secret church in the area,
11:09
I was at a wedding not too long ago
11:13
and I was positioned at a table with a member
11:16
of that church who'd been there for a long time
11:18
and he didn't know who I was.
11:21
And so he found out where I went to church
11:23
and it didn't really dawn on him.
11:25
Our church had been in the media quite a bit
11:26
and but it didn't really dawn on him.
11:28
He didn't make the connection right away.
11:29
And he says, so did you guys lay people off
11:34
any of your staff off over COVID
11:36
and as if that was a normal thing for churches to do, right?
11:41
And no, we didn't.
11:44
In fact, we grew through COVID.
11:47
But I think that a lot of churches have had to wrestle
11:50
with budgetary issues and staffing issues
11:53
as a result of the fact that they've taught them,
11:56
they're folks that the church is about,
11:58
I don't know, making them happy, making people happy,
12:00
making a community happy.
12:02
And all of a sudden when the gospel
12:04
and the church itself becomes an offense,
12:05
it's very difficult for those organizations.
12:07
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- Yeah, certainly.
12:41
And I think the thing that's helpful to understand
12:43
is obviously some of what you're saying
12:45
is very familiar to what we're experiencing
12:48
in some areas of the United States.
12:50
And part of that has to do with,
12:51
hey, we're in kind of a state system
12:53
for each state, you know, technically,
12:55
because in a federalist system, they can operate
12:57
how they want to operate.
12:59
And so what's happening here in Oklahoma
13:00
may not sound like what's happening in California.
13:02
And that's because they can be governed differently.
13:05
But there was a shift seemingly in Canada, Jacob.
13:08
And this will springboard us probably
13:09
into the documentary that we're here mainly to talk about.
13:12
And that shift seemed to happen in 2020.
13:14
Now, if you haven't been paying attention
13:16
to Canadian politics for any length of time,
13:18
you would think that 2020 was like the single hinge point
13:21
for the authoritarian nature of Justin Trudeau's government
13:25
and those types of things.
13:26
But that was when it was kind of revealed to the world
13:29
that the things that came from COVID policy
13:32
and these so-called health provisions
13:33
that were coming from your local magistrates there,
13:36
that's when we were like, wait a minute.
13:38
Like this is after we had kind of gotten used to it
13:40
after we kind of understood what COVID was
13:43
and it wasn't gonna kill one third of the population.
13:45
It was gonna do much, much less.
13:46
But take me through what that was like just being a Canadian.
13:50
We'll get to the pastor side of it
13:52
because that's where we get into the documentary.
13:53
But when you just saw what was happening
13:56
by the elected government, whether you voted for them or not
13:58
and how they were treating the local populace of Canada.
14:02
- It was really hard to digest.
14:04
But of course, my political views and my views of government
14:09
are not part of the mainstream here.
14:13
Like they're not part of what we would call
14:15
the Laurentian consensus, which is kind of central Canada's
14:20
view of things.
14:21
My view of government's been shaped by scripture
14:23
and it would be more traditional Canadian view of government
14:26
where there should be limited government
14:27
and there should be individual rights and so on.
14:30
And so when it happened, I don't know what was more shocking.
14:34
The fact that the government did it
14:36
and they locked everything down
14:37
and they were so hard on the people
14:39
or that the people wanted it.
14:40
I don't know what was,
14:42
I don't know what was,
14:43
that the people weren't outraged
14:45
or that the people actually went along with this nonsense.
14:48
I don't know what was more shocking to me.
14:50
I mean, I know that our government's wicked
14:53
and they're evil and satanic in so many ways,
14:57
but yet that the population who were so willing
15:01
to relinquish their freedoms
15:04
and then turn on people
15:07
who weren't willing to relinquish them,
15:09
I think that was awful to see.
15:13
And I mean, it divided families and everything.
15:15
So depending where you were in Canada
15:18
and our part of Canada wasn't the worst part,
15:21
Quebec, French Canada was the worst,
15:23
but it was bad here.
15:26
It was sure bad here.
15:27
- And I think it was something for us looking as Christians,
15:30
obviously when things started happening
15:32
to pastors up there, which we'll get into.
15:33
Well, let's just get into that now.
15:35
So how I came across you and your work that you've done,
15:39
is there's a documentary that's out now,
15:40
guides us in the show notes, you should check it out.
15:42
And here, I'm giving you the commercial
15:44
before we tell you what it's even about,
15:45
what it's called, Antichrist and His Ruin.
15:48
So let's just start basically,
15:49
where did the idea come from for this documentary?
15:52
And I guess what's the theme of the film
15:54
and what's your involvement for how it got off the ground?
15:56
- Yeah, thanks for mentioning that.
15:58
Thank you, Kyle, for the opportunity to talk about this
16:00
on your podcast and you can find it
16:02
at antichristocumentary.com.
16:05
And there was a number of things that came into play
16:09
in my mind as we were going through COVID.
16:12
So by the time the lockdown started,
16:15
I developed my own thinking on politics and government
16:19
and the role of government through scripture.
16:21
And in doing that, I had also researched
16:27
and figured out what our history is as Canadians,
16:31
because the public school system
16:33
has intentionally gutted Canadian history
16:38
as it has historically been told.
16:41
And so I became curious, I'd say 10 years ago,
16:46
probably longer ago, is to politically, culturally,
16:52
what are our roots as Canadians?
16:55
And so I was able to trace this back
16:57
to really our, I guess, the glorious revolution in England
17:02
and even some revolutionary activity in Canada
17:05
in the 19th century that eventually led to confederation.
17:08
And all of this was grounded on a respect
17:10
for individual rights.
17:12
And so, and then I wanted to trace back,
17:16
this is what I did, I figured out what happened
17:19
to that mentality and that type of thinking,
17:21
which is a good type of thinking
17:23
and why that was erased in Canada and how we lost it.
17:27
And in doing that, I was able to tell the story
17:32
in our documentary of how you went from a Canadian culture
17:37
that at the turn of the 20th century was over 95%
17:41
of English-speaking Canadians went to a Protestant church
17:43
on Sunday and most of them would have valued
17:48
responsible government because it had been fought for
17:51
in the previous century.
17:52
And when I say responsible government,
17:54
I mean a government that's responsible to the people
17:57
is the preserver of their rights.
18:00
And so what happened in that century,
18:02
the last century that led to where we were in 2020?
18:06
And then I combine that with a book
18:08
that was written by John Bunyan later in his life.
18:12
He's of course the author of Pilgrim's Progress.
18:14
He spent 13 years in jail under Charles II in England.
18:18
And he wrote a book defining what antichrist is,
18:23
what antichrist looks like and how we must fight antichrist.
18:26
And so I saw several problems that I was trying to meet.
18:30
One is the problem of the absence
18:32
of teaching on Canadian history.
18:34
So how did we get to where we are?
18:36
And the other problem was in the church,
18:37
which is the absence of the teaching on antichrist.
18:40
And so there's been videos or movies or books written
18:44
about end time stuff over the last 20, 30 years.
18:48
And I don't think a lot of that stuff's been very helpful.
18:50
It's been sensational, but it hasn't helped us think
18:52
through what the biblical teaching is on antichrist
18:55
and what happens when Satan gets the keys of government.
18:58
And so I wanted to combine the historical side,
19:03
the Canadian history side with the scriptural side
19:06
and merge them together to tell a story
19:09
that's historical and spiritual of the demise of Canada
19:12
and how I believe that finally climax in 2020, 21 and 22
19:17
with the government's persecution of the churches.
19:22
And that's what the movie tries to do.
19:24
And that's why I called it Antichrist in his room
19:26
because it's named after John Bunyan's book
19:29
of Antichrist in his room that's written,
19:31
that's referenced multiple times in the documentary.
19:34
- Yeah, and I watched the documentary and to be honest with you,
19:37
it's the most Canadian thing I've ever watched in my life
19:40
other than someone eating maple syrup
19:44
while watching a hockey game or something like that.
19:46
But it was a whole bunch of stuff I didn't know.
19:49
And so to Canadian, some of it might seem old hat,
19:52
but I bet you informed a lot of Canadians
19:54
about their own history that they didn't even understand
19:57
because we're at a point in American history
19:59
where our children have no idea
20:00
who the founding fathers are,
20:02
except they know that they were racist, horrible slave owners
20:04
that should have their statues torn down
20:07
and all their paintings burned in a lake of fire
20:09
or something like that.
20:10
But let's do some definitional work here from the beginning
20:13
because again, having not grown up in church
20:15
and having just kind of gone to scripture as an adult,
20:18
I guess everybody grows up with an idea of what,
20:23
what or who the Antichrist is.
20:25
And so how about we just start there?
20:27
Who or what is the Antichrist?
20:29
And then we'll just start piecing together some things
20:31
from the film here.
20:32
- Well, the way Bunyan describes it,
20:34
which I think is historically and scripturally accurate
20:37
is Antichrist is a, he apes Christ, he mimics Christ.
20:42
And so he has a body and he has a spirit.
20:47
And the body of Antichrist is the host
20:51
of the spirit of Antichrist.
20:53
And the spirit of Antichrist is a way of thinking,
20:55
it's a system, it's a spiritual power
20:58
that is bent on usurping the Kingly rule of Jesus Christ.
21:02
And that spirit, it's a satanic spirit,
21:06
attaches itself like a parasite to the host.
21:09
And the host is any institutions
21:12
that it attaches itself to.
21:15
And so, and typically in history,
21:16
those two institutions are the church and the state.
21:19
And so Antichrist will, will parasitically attach itself
21:24
to a state or to a church or to a state and a church
21:27
at the same time, and then utilize those institutions
21:30
to usurp the rule of Christ, to blaspheme Christ,
21:34
and ultimately to persecute the church
21:36
because the goal of Satan is to take Christ's church,
21:41
Christ's bride into his harem.
21:44
And Bunyan was actually very graphic
21:46
in how he described it.
21:48
He said the goal of Antichrist is to prostrate,
21:52
or prostrate her to his lusts and to deflour her.
21:56
And, and so that's, that's strong language,
21:58
but that is precisely to make an adulterous
22:01
out of the bride of Christ,
22:02
the beautiful spotless blood-bought bride of Christ
22:05
to layer on the bed and make her an adulterous basically.
22:09
- And so I guess that's the funny thing
22:11
because as you're learning about the Bible
22:13
and different things, you hear some people talk
22:15
about Antichrist and it's whatever politician
22:18
they don't like the most, right?
22:20
And so during the Obama administration,
22:22
it was like all these random YouTube videos
22:24
about how Obama was the Antichrist
22:26
because this, this, and this, and it's like, wait a minute,
22:28
I think it's much more helpful to look at it as,
22:30
as a spirit that can encapsulate people
22:33
and things and entities, okay?
22:36
The thing that I loved really about the documentary is,
22:39
you've seen documentaries before where it's like,
22:41
right from the beginning, you're like,
22:42
I have no idea what's grounding any of this,
22:45
but you start this documentary, Jacob,
22:48
by describing the Puritans.
22:49
And I felt like that was an appropriate place
22:51
to really ground the discussion
22:53
and really everything that you built on top of it.
22:56
So why start with the Puritans?
22:58
- Well, there was a couple of reasons.
23:00
And again, so what are we doing with here?
23:04
We're dealing with the spiritual side
23:06
and the historical side.
23:08
And so what do the Puritans offer to us
23:10
from a historical side?
23:12
Well, as far as our nation goes, the nation of Canada,
23:16
our rights and liberties really flowered
23:20
during the Puritan era, and then we're captured
23:23
at the end of the Puritan area in 1688 and 1689
23:26
with the English Bill of Rights.
23:28
And by the way, if you understand the history
23:31
of the English-speaking world,
23:32
1776 in America wasn't like some anomaly,
23:37
they traced that back to 1688,
23:39
and previous English civil wars and revolutions
23:42
where rights were developed.
23:44
So we share a common history here is English speakers.
23:47
So that's the historical side.
23:50
And the spiritual side is, well, as evangelicals,
23:54
English-speaking evangelicals,
23:55
we really do trace our roots into the Protestant Reformation
24:00
and then really the second English Reformation,
24:02
which is the Puritan era in the 17th century.
24:04
So much of our theology,
24:07
and then so much of our political thought,
24:10
historically speaking, traditionally speaking,
24:13
was shaped in that 17th century.
24:16
The theology was crystallized with the Westminster Confession,
24:19
with the Baptist Confession.
24:21
And then the political outlook
24:23
and thinking was crystallized under Oliver Cromwell
24:26
and the Protectorate.
24:28
And then beyond that, in 1688 and 1689,
24:31
after the Glorious Revolution,
24:33
where these historic English rights
24:35
were articulated in the Bill of Rights,
24:36
which included the freedom of religion and freedom of worship.
24:41
- And I think people need to understand,
24:43
'cause again, we love to buck against
24:45
whatever is conventional now,
24:46
and I use the term we loosely,
24:48
but as a society, whatever convention is,
24:50
that's gonna get in the way of progress.
24:52
And so we need to take out whatever convention is.
24:55
So convention might be deciding, you know,
24:57
what the differences are between male and female,
24:59
between the normal nuclear family,
25:02
between the system of government we have now
25:04
versus the one that we want to ring in,
25:05
because utopia is actually something
25:07
that we can actually attain
25:08
or something nonsensical like that.
25:10
But the thing that you make,
25:13
the claim that you make in the documentary,
25:14
and I feel like it's very well stated
25:16
and well researched and well argued,
25:19
is that the state, and that's capital S state,
25:23
took over the family and the church in Canada.
25:26
And so we're gonna keep the discussion there with Canada,
25:28
because there are some bleedovers to hear the United States,
25:30
but this is distinctly talking about
25:32
what happened in Canada.
25:33
So I guess how, Jacob, did the state take over
25:37
these hegemonic, you know, dominant forces,
25:40
like the family, the capital F family,
25:43
and the capital C church?
25:46
Well, it was a slow move
25:50
with some key parts to it.
25:54
And so if you go into the 20th century
25:55
and you start the 20th century,
25:56
Canada is very much a truly liberal democracy
26:01
in the best sense, not the lefty liberal,
26:05
that's not what I'm talking about,
26:06
but a democracy where there's a separation of institutions,
26:09
there's a plurality of institutions,
26:11
you have a respect for the family,
26:13
you have a respect for the church,
26:14
even to the point where in the early part
26:15
of the 20th century, it was enacted
26:18
and it was debated in Parliament,
26:19
and they passed the law
26:20
that we would have a Sabbath law in Canada.
26:23
And so there was a Sabbath law that was in stated,
26:25
so you didn't work on Sundays in Canada,
26:27
unless it was a work of necessity.
26:28
And I think that was very much God honoring.
26:30
That of course is overturned in the 80s.
26:34
But what really shifted was that post World War II generation.
26:39
So after World War II,
26:42
there was a movement towards socialism.
26:45
And that really was the spirit of Antichrist
26:47
because what the socialist movement is doing
26:50
is it's putting everything under the rubric of the state.
26:55
As opposed to having a family that's independent of the state
26:58
or hospitals that are independent of the state
26:59
or a church that's independent of the state
27:01
or an education system that's independent of the state,
27:03
socialism is putting everything is mushing together.
27:07
So there's no distinction, it's all one, right?
27:10
It's a big blob.
27:13
But in order to do that successfully in Canada,
27:18
they had to gut us of our history
27:20
and gut us of our constitutional heritage.
27:25
And the gutting of our history
27:27
and the gutting of our constitutional heritage
27:29
occurred primarily under Pierre Elliott Trudeau
27:34
in the late 60s.
27:36
And so when Pierre Elliott Trudeau was elected,
27:40
one of his first orders of business as prime minister
27:44
was to pass this omnibus bill.
27:46
And I think it was 1968 when Trudeau passed the omnibus bill.
27:50
And the omnibus bill completely shaped,
27:54
reshaped Canadian thinking.
27:56
And what it did was it legalized abortion,
28:00
it legalized sodomy,
28:03
it legalized birth control,
28:05
it legalized gambling,
28:07
and it restricted gun ownership.
28:10
So you think about that, restrict gun ownership
28:14
and then make all of these other things more liberal
28:17
but make gun ownership less liberal.
28:18
That was all in 1968 under Pierre Elliott Trudeau.
28:22
And so with that omnibus bill that he passed,
28:25
there was also an intentional shift in the Canadian mind
28:30
as to what our identity is as a people.
28:34
And as opposed to being an English-speaking people
28:38
who benevolently tolerate French Catholicism in Quebec,
28:46
an English-speaking people who root our liberties
28:48
and our rights in history,
28:50
in the revolutionary activity in upper and lower Canada
28:54
in the 19th century,
28:56
and in the glorious revolution of 1688
28:58
and in King Alfred's common law in the 9th century,
29:00
instead of that, we intentionally identified
29:03
as a multicultural people,
29:07
which on the surface is presented as,
29:09
oh, we're multicultural, that means we're not racist.
29:12
No one wants to be a racist, right?
29:15
And, but that's not what multiculturalism is.
29:18
Multiculturalism isn't the statement
29:20
that all ethnicities are equal in the sight of God.
29:24
Multiculturalism is the statement
29:26
that all ways of life are equal
29:29
because the state says they're equal.
29:31
And it's a Trojan horse that brings in license
29:36
for the state to do whatever the heck they want to do.
29:39
And that's essentially what multiculturalism is.
29:41
So that became state policy late 60s, early 70s
29:44
with this omnibus bill.
29:46
So then what happens after that?
29:48
Well, now what the state does
29:50
is it redefines our constitutional rights
29:53
in the early 80s with, again, purely a Trudeau.
29:56
And in redefining our constitutional rights,
29:58
they usher in the charter of rights and freedoms,
30:01
which delineates many of our historical rights,
30:04
conveniently leaves out the right to bear arms,
30:06
which was part of our constitutional history.
30:09
That was in the English Bill of Rights in 1689,
30:12
but they conveniently leave that out.
30:14
They conveniently leave out property rights.
30:17
And they put this little poison pill in the Constitution,
30:20
the Charter of Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
30:22
And the poison pill is that these rights can be removed
30:26
so long as that can be demonstrably justified
30:29
in a free and democratic society.
30:31
So now all of a sudden the government has the right
30:32
to restrict our human rights, our rights,
30:35
our ancient rights that we've had since Canadian,
30:38
since time immemorial.
30:40
That was in the early 80s.
30:41
And then once they start screwing around with that,
30:44
then they start screwing around with the family.
30:48
And so early 2000s, they bring in the same sex,
30:52
so-called same sex marriage, sodomite marriage.
30:56
And then they start making all these tranny laws
30:59
in the last few years.
31:00
And is this is all going on?
31:02
The government is taking a bigger role in healthcare,
31:04
so it's privatizing healthcare.
31:06
They're intentionally gutting the public school system.
31:10
They're already taking over the public school system.
31:12
And so that was a mistake in my mind.
31:15
But they start gutting the public school system
31:17
of religious, 'cause we're now multicultural.
31:21
Who needs the Lord's Prayer in school?
31:22
Well, I remember very clearly, when I was a kid,
31:24
we'd say the Lord's Prayer in school
31:25
and they'd teach us the Christmas story.
31:27
And now if you go on the Twitter feed
31:30
for our local school board,
31:32
every day's a new religious festival.
31:34
Why? Because we're multicultural.
31:35
So every religion now is equal.
31:38
As long as they give their ultimate allegiance to the state.
31:42
So if you wanna talk about the official gutting of Canada,
31:45
I think it really happened in the late '60s
31:47
with the advent of multiculturalism
31:50
and with Pia or Trudeau's omnibus bill.
31:53
And then it was, a bow was tied on the top of it
31:56
with our new constitution in the early '80s.
31:58
And then finally, the icing and everything,
32:00
all the sparkles was the sodomite marriage
32:03
and all these new tranny things that they're bringing in.
32:06
Jacob, I appreciate you going into that level of detail.
32:08
And guys, there's way more detail even in the documentary,
32:11
but that is a really, really good summation.
32:12
One thing that we talk about all the time,
32:14
you likely hear this phrase, state sanctioned blank.
32:18
And then we just fill in the blank.
32:19
Oh, that state shankton, this or state sanctioned that.
32:22
But what happened in 1968,
32:24
that was state defined morality.
32:28
Because just think about that.
32:29
That is astonishing 'cause we always complain
32:32
about omnibus bills and packages and for good reason,
32:35
'cause you have these 40,000 page bills
32:37
that no one could possibly read.
32:39
It's like, hey, we're gonna vote on this in three hours
32:41
and no one can possibly read it.
32:42
But again, I'll run down the list that you gave us.
32:44
Abortion, sodomy, gambling, gun control.
32:48
Oh, and we'll throw birth control in there just as a thing.
32:51
Can you imagine an entity being able to just,
32:55
with literally the stroke of a pen,
32:57
change the cultural milieu and morality of those issues,
33:02
each one of which should require a tremendous amount
33:05
of debate and elections and voting
33:07
on certain laws and different things.
33:09
But no, no, no, just by whoop,
33:10
this is how we're changing things.
33:12
And that was one of the first dominoes to fall.
33:14
So it didn't start in 2020.
33:16
It started in 1968 and it goes back before then,
33:19
but that is one of the most astonishing things
33:22
that nobody knows about.
33:23
Nobody knows, like that should be talked about
33:25
all over the globe because people always talk about here
33:27
in America that whatever nonsense happens in Canada
33:31
is flushed down the toilet and ends up in America.
33:33
It's like, okay, to a degree,
33:35
we're y'all paying attention to what's been happening
33:37
over the last several decades because a lot of,
33:40
there are a lot of people here in America,
33:42
governors and Democratic politicians that love
33:45
what the Trudeau's, Pierre and Justin,
33:48
have done over these last several decades
33:50
to really decay what was built in the foundation
33:53
of Canadian life and just Canadian morality,
33:55
as it writ large, I guess you could say.
33:58
But let's go ahead and go to 2020.
33:59
So we've been at this long enough.
34:02
Let's talk about 2020.
34:03
Everybody, we've all went through,
34:05
we know what COVID is done,
34:07
we know what the lockdowns did,
34:09
we know what masking dinner didn't do,
34:10
we know what the Vax does or doesn't do,
34:12
and all that's basically out there now
34:13
and everyone that was considered a conspiracy theorist
34:16
has basically been found to be saying the truth
34:18
at this point here in 2023.
34:21
But let's go back to 2020.
34:23
We have these lockdowns
34:24
and then we start hearing these random reports, Jacob,
34:27
of pastors not just being harassed in Canada,
34:31
but being arrested.
34:32
James Coates was a pastor that I reached out to his church,
34:35
you know, whenever he was put in jail,
34:37
I talked to one of his associate pastors
34:39
while he was sitting there in prison
34:41
and we were thinking, they may not let this guy out,
34:44
like they may make an example out of this man
34:46
so that they have a scalp that they can nail onto the wall.
34:49
Take us back to that time because, you know,
34:52
I guess it technically started with pastor Coates,
34:55
but then even you got wrapped up in all this.
34:57
So let's start there and see where we go.
34:59
- Well, we could wind back to March of 2020
35:03
when they pushed the churches that shut down
35:06
and that's when our church had to deal with things internally
35:09
and finally figure out, like I was trying to move
35:12
the whole way to open defiance against the state
35:16
because I didn't think the state had any authority
35:17
over the church.
35:19
But eventually we got developed consensus
35:21
within our leadership and sadly some people left,
35:24
but that's the way some things go, you know,
35:26
things go sometimes.
35:28
And then we move into the fall of 2020
35:31
and it's very clear that the government's gonna
35:34
start locking us down again.
35:36
And so our elders decided we're gonna defy the government.
35:39
And so we actually wrote a letter to the chief of police.
35:42
I don't know whether we should have done that in hindsight,
35:45
but we did.
35:46
And we wrote a letter to the chief of police
35:47
and we let them know what we're gonna do.
35:50
And so the first Sunday was a Sunday after Christmas.
35:53
I can't remember whether it was the 27th
35:55
or whatever, December of 2020.
35:58
And they had cops outside our church
36:02
and they were trying to threaten our people
36:04
and intimidate them and people just came to church.
36:06
Then the next Sunday we did again
36:07
and the media started dumping on us.
36:10
And then we took a break, we pulled back
36:14
and we went out in the parking lot for two weeks
36:17
because we just wanted to de-escalate things.
36:19
And then we had a court order on us.
36:21
The government brought in a court order
36:24
and they ordered us to comply with all the COVID mandates.
36:28
And so after giving them two weeks I regret,
36:31
my biggest regrets in this whole thing
36:33
is anything we ever did to appease the government
36:35
because they're unappeasible.
36:37
And this is what I learned.
36:38
It doesn't matter how much I try to de-escalate.
36:39
It doesn't matter how much I try to work with them.
36:41
They do not wanna work with us.
36:43
And it's like the whole thing,
36:44
you give the devil an inch, he takes a mile.
36:47
And I learned that the-
36:48
- Real quick, you can never bow low enough before the mob.
36:50
That's why I tell people if the mob is coming after you
36:53
and mobbing you for your moral positions on any issue,
36:57
do not apologize ever because it will never be enough.
37:01
- Don't give him a bloody thing.
37:02
And so the only things that I regret from this whole thing,
37:06
and I have a lot of fines, our church has a lot of fines,
37:09
we've been charged with contempt of court two times.
37:11
The only thing I regret is the times we didn't fight harder.
37:15
And so that's it, that's my only regret.
37:16
I wish we fought harder, but whatever.
37:19
You learn as you go.
37:20
And anyway, so we had a court order.
37:23
And then it was when we got that court order
37:25
is when I did meet James Coates.
37:27
And so we had our court order,
37:29
we opened in contempt of court,
37:30
and then he and I talked on the phone that week.
37:33
And I think they had a court order or something too.
37:35
And then they decided they were gonna open
37:37
in defiance of whatever order their government gave them.
37:41
Well, we got, we got crapped on.
37:43
And I think we had $120,000 in fines
37:47
for that first contempt of court hearing.
37:49
And then James never really got any consequences.
37:53
So that's where he really started getting attention is after,
37:57
and then that's when he went to jail
37:59
was a few weeks after that whole scene.
38:01
After he went into jail, things were lifted in Ontario.
38:05
We resurfaced again, and as elders,
38:09
I think what happened when he went to jail
38:12
is that's when we really galvanized.
38:14
And through that season, I think Tim Stevens
38:16
might have been arrested and I certainly got to know him.
38:19
And then Easter came around 2021.
38:21
And that's when they, there's actually
38:24
some really fun stories about our Easter,
38:26
leading up to Easter because they had this court order on us.
38:30
And we were in defiance of the court order,
38:31
defiance of the court order, defiance of the court order.
38:33
And they would put cops outside our church
38:36
and we wouldn't let the cops on our property.
38:37
We told them, we don't want them here.
38:38
You're not allowed here.
38:39
You're not allowed in our building.
38:40
We don't want you here.
38:41
And so they decided to leave us alone in that way,
38:42
but they'd surround the perimeter of our church.
38:46
And they take pictures of our wives and children
38:49
as they were going in the church.
38:50
So what we did was we got,
38:54
I think it was about six, seven, eight RVs,
38:58
like big huge trailers that you can live in.
39:02
And we surrounded our entryways with RVs.
39:05
So the men would drive around the trailers,
39:08
drop their wives and children off and then go park the car,
39:11
which really ticked off the bylaw officers
39:13
'cause they couldn't get all the pictures.
39:15
- Yeah.
39:16
- And apparently a bunch of guys in our church
39:19
got the cell phone number of one of the bylaw officers
39:23
who was taking pictures of our wives and children.
39:25
And he got several phone calls that were not,
39:30
we never saw him again.
39:31
I don't know what happened to him.
39:33
- Yeah.
39:34
- But then the next week what we did is we built,
39:36
I think it was a 16 foot fence around our perimeter.
39:40
So they couldn't see into our facility.
39:43
And the cops lined up, there must have been 10 of them
39:45
that lined up outside the exits from our property.
39:48
And then they would chase people down as they left the church.
39:51
And they chased them down and they took it them on the road.
39:54
And so what the guys started doing is they would do,
39:57
they would do rounds.
39:58
One guy would leave the parking lot and he'd get the cops.
40:03
It would be like smoking the bandit if he ever saw that movie.
40:06
Cops would chase them, he'd decoy the cops, people would leave.
40:09
He'd go back, get the cops to chase them,
40:11
decoy the cops, people would leave.
40:12
So that was, we had a lot of fun with the police
40:15
in some of these teams.
40:16
And the guys have great memories.
40:18
I mean, we did so many things that just bonded the church.
40:23
The guys had a great time with it.
40:24
We all tell stories about it and laugh now,
40:26
almost fall off our chairs.
40:28
But anyway, eventually the government
40:30
charged it with the contempt of court again
40:32
and they stole our building from us.
40:33
They locked us out of our building.
40:35
I quickly got all my books out of my office,
40:38
out of my study and I moved my office to above
40:41
a horse barn somewhere where someone generously
40:44
and then our church figured out what to do
40:46
and continue to be faithful without paying much attention to us.
40:50
But it was a hard season.
40:53
In a lot of ways, it was stressful, but it was a lot of fun.
40:56
And now the church has six tickets.
40:59
I think that's 60 million in fines
41:00
and I've got 11, that's 1.1 million.
41:03
All the elders have five or six fines, five, 600,000.
41:06
And we're, all these things are before the court.
41:08
We just lost our appeal and guess what?
41:11
We lost our appeal.
41:12
The judges, it was a three-judge panel
41:15
and the judges acknowledged.
41:16
They said, yes, your constitutional rights
41:20
were just, or were violated.
41:22
Yes, they were.
41:23
But guess what else the judges said?
41:26
The Charter of Rights and Freedoms,
41:28
the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms,
41:29
says that your Charter of Rights can be justified
41:33
as long as that can be violated,
41:35
so long as that can be justified
41:36
in a free and democratic society.
41:38
And so they said, it was justified
41:40
because we give deference to the government.
41:43
And so they give deference to the government
41:45
in their constitutional ruling
41:47
and we didn't even have one dissenting opinion
41:50
on the three-judge panel.
41:52
They give complete deference to the government
41:54
because the government,
41:55
under our new constitutional order here in Canada,
41:58
is the ultimate and final authority overall things.
42:02
So Jacob, let's play this out a little bit further.
42:04
So my understanding is, since you lost your appeal,
42:07
you're now gonna be going to the Supreme Court of Canada
42:09
or whatever it's called up there in Canada.
42:12
So what happens if your denial of your appeal is upheld,
42:17
which is to say that, yes, you did violate these laws.
42:21
I mean, are y'all on the hook to pay these in total,
42:24
millions and millions of dollars?
42:26
Are we gonna see Canadian pastors going back into prison?
42:30
Because like, if you refuse to pay,
42:31
like everything the government does
42:33
is at the threat of a gun
42:34
and they can put you behind bars if they so choose to do so.
42:37
What are the next steps?
42:38
What does it look like from here?
42:41
- Well, I've learned to trust the Lord day by day.
42:43
And so the Bible says,
42:45
don't worry about tomorrow for tomorrow,
42:47
we'll take care of itself.
42:48
And we seek first the kingdom of God
42:51
and His righteousness and all these other things
42:53
will be added unto us and that's what I've learned to do.
42:55
So I don't worry about it.
42:56
There's other things that have to be dealt with.
43:00
So there's prosecutors and local judges
43:04
are gonna have to decide.
43:05
I mean, those are maximum penalties.
43:07
The maximum is 60 million for the church,
43:08
the maximum is 1.1 million for me personally.
43:11
So they have to decide all that stuff
43:15
in the event that we lose our constitutional appeal.
43:18
And I'm not optimistic that we're gonna win it,
43:20
but well, we'll see.
43:22
I don't worry about it.
43:24
- Okay, well, we'd love to kind of keep up with that.
43:26
And I'd love to keep the guys that listen to the show,
43:29
guys and gals listen to the show up to date on that.
43:31
So we'll do what we can to stay in connection with you
43:33
as far as that goes.
43:34
Now, there was one quote and I,
43:36
this isn't gonna be a shock to anybody that's listened to
43:38
the, I guess, the tone and tenor of this conversation
43:42
up to this point.
43:42
I believe this was your quote from the film,
43:45
but it was be kind without being nice.
43:48
Okay, now I constantly tell people that there are times
43:52
where you are gonna be called unloving by doing things
43:56
that the Bible tells you are moral or immoral.
43:59
And if someone says, hey, you're being unloving,
44:01
but you are actually being loving by the dictates
44:03
of the Bible, then just don't worry about it, right?
44:06
But that's not licensed also to be a [inaudible].
44:09
That's not licensed to just be a jerk
44:11
for the sake of being a jerk, right?
44:13
It's a, you know, take your IPA and pour it on their head
44:16
and then ash your cigar on their mouth.
44:18
Like don't do those types of things,
44:19
but there are times where you will be called
44:21
rude and unloving by doing things that are actually loving.
44:25
But when you say be kind without being nice,
44:28
what do you mean by that?
44:29
I think that was actually Nate Pastor Nate Wright
44:31
that said that in the documentary,
44:32
but I, the word kind, if you actually research
44:37
the etymology of the word kind,
44:38
it's derived from the word kin.
44:43
And so if you're going to be kind to someone,
44:46
etymologically, you're actually treating them
44:49
like you're kin, like your family, right?
44:53
And so how do you operate as a family?
44:55
I mean, I have six kids.
44:57
I grew up a family of four kids.
45:00
I'm the oldest, I got two brothers and a sister.
45:02
And sometimes when you're family,
45:04
you have disagreements, you spar, you talk things out,
45:09
and it's not always a bed of roses,
45:12
but that's how healthy relates.
45:13
There's debate, there's a level of healthy adversity, right?
45:18
It's ironing, sharpening iron is one man sharpens another.
45:23
And so when you treat each other like kin,
45:25
like a family, there is an adverse,
45:29
there is a loving adversarialism that should take place.
45:33
I mean, certainly in a marriage.
45:35
I mean, any married couple that never have a disagreement
45:41
and don't have to talk out the disagreement are,
45:44
you really wonder what the heck's going on in their marriage,
45:46
that that wouldn't be a healthy situation.
45:49
And certainly with siblings and extended families.
45:51
So being nice, however, I think the perception of being nice
45:55
is you're always just trying to make everyone happy.
45:58
And really when you're always trying to make everyone happy,
46:02
your tone, as you used to call it,
46:04
the tone in the tenor or what you're saying
46:06
is being dictated by somebody else.
46:08
Whereas if you're treating them like kin,
46:11
you're operating within the confines of relationship
46:14
and things can be said that need to be said as it should be.
46:19
- And I think that's funny.
46:23
It's probably been said a million times before,
46:25
but I remember Vodie Bock,
46:26
I'm talking about the tone police
46:28
and how there's constantly people talking about,
46:30
oh, well, the tone of your message just isn't really nice.
46:32
And it's like, well, any kind of makes fun of them.
46:34
He's like, well, yeah, the 11th commandment
46:35
is just to be as nice as possible all the time, right?
46:38
But one thing that we have a lot of tone,
46:40
we have a lot of tone police amongst churches here in Canada.
46:44
A lot.
46:45
- They're the same here.
46:46
- The tone police here are the most righteous people
46:49
you'll ever meet, believe me.
46:50
- Well, and the funny thing about the tone police
46:52
that I've noticed is they all tend to be
46:53
on the effeminate side of the ledger.
46:55
They're never worried about the tone being too feminine,
46:59
right? - That's right.
47:00
- They're always worried about the tone being too aggressive
47:02
and too masculine, which leads me to my next question
47:04
is just the overall need of men in this fight.
47:08
And so there's something that I talk about often here.
47:10
So there are a lot of churches down here in America
47:12
that are scared, well, I guess around the entire globe,
47:14
they're scared to death to talk about abortion.
47:16
These feckless effeminate pastors,
47:18
they don't want to talk about abortion
47:19
because they know there's a woman in the crowd
47:21
that's had one and they don't want anyone to feel judged
47:22
and all those different things.
47:23
The thing about it is you can say,
47:25
there's now therefore no condemnation
47:27
for those who are in Christ Jesus.
47:28
And now you talk about abortion, okay?
47:30
You can talk about it in a way
47:31
that doesn't make these women feel condemned,
47:33
but makes them understand that their level of depravity
47:35
is what leads to the gospel.
47:37
And everyone's level of depravity
47:38
is leads to the need of the gospel.
47:40
But before I get off too far,
47:42
I tell people all the time,
47:43
if you're concerned about your pastor
47:45
not equipping the saints or your church
47:47
to push back on the darkness of abortion,
47:48
what you need to do is you need to go into his office
47:50
and you say pastor, I've been here for 10 years.
47:53
You've never once talked about abortion in any lengthy way.
47:55
I think you should do so.
47:56
Please equip the saints, please do that.
47:59
And if you do, I will stand in front of you
48:02
and take some of the slings and arrows coming your way.
48:04
And then you leave his office
48:05
and then there better be a dozen more guys
48:08
waiting in the lobby to do the exact same thing.
48:10
And part of it is to steal STEL,
48:14
to steal his nerves.
48:15
And to make him feel like, okay,
48:17
the men of my congregation, right?
48:19
The lions of my congregation, they've got my back.
48:22
Let's go push back some darkness.
48:24
The same thing that happened with you
48:25
and the other pastors, Jacob,
48:26
whenever James Coates kind of passed the threshold,
48:29
the point of no return, it's like, okay, it's time.
48:32
Like let's girl our loins and let's get after it.
48:34
But talk to me about the need of men in this fight,
48:37
not just in Canada,
48:38
but anywhere where the gospel should be put into culture.
48:41
- Yeah, I really, what you said resonates with me
48:46
as far as people talking to their pastors.
48:48
But I really think the onus is on the pastors
48:53
to embolden the people.
48:55
- I agree.
48:56
- And one of the reasons the church,
48:59
the people don't rise above the pulpit.
49:02
And so if the pastor is gilded,
49:06
what's gonna, it's gonna create a culture within the church
49:09
where any man who does have testicular fortitude
49:13
is going to feel like he's a second or third rate Christian
49:17
because he doesn't pass the tone test.
49:20
He actually talks like a man.
49:23
And so these men,
49:26
and so really one of the first ways that pastors
49:30
I think have to show and demonstrate courage
49:34
is by being courageous and resolved
49:38
with the people that they're supposed to be leading, right?
49:41
So if you're afraid of the women in your church
49:45
that have had abortions,
49:47
get out of your pulpit.
49:48
Are you kidding me?
49:50
Leave.
49:51
Like I've been, I've said from the pulpit before
49:55
and I said it many times,
49:57
if you are a woman in this church
49:59
and you've had an abortion, you're a murderer.
50:02
But Jesus died for murderers.
50:06
And guess what happens?
50:08
Kyle, women who have had abortions in my church
50:12
get saved and they come out and they testify to that.
50:16
I got saved, I didn't like the pastor's message,
50:18
I went home, I got angry and I didn't wanna come back
50:22
but something else, something drew me back.
50:23
Well, we know that's the Holy Spirit of God
50:25
working in their hearts, brings them back
50:27
and they hear it again and again
50:28
and then they get saved.
50:29
And we actually have a public testimony on our website
50:32
of a video of a lady who got saved that way.
50:35
And just a beautiful testimony of salvation.
50:38
But I don't understand that mentality
50:42
but we do need to have lions who are roaring
50:46
and this is not the, I mean, I think a lot of the way
50:49
these guys operate right now in pulpets
50:53
probably would have been okay in 1952.
50:57
But this is a totally, this is a totally different world.
51:00
This world is bass-acquards
51:03
and you can't operate in good faith
51:07
towards your government anymore because they hate you
51:10
and they hate truth.
51:11
They lie right to your face.
51:12
The media lies right to your face.
51:15
And anyone that's gonna willingly stand up
51:17
and honestly without smirking,
51:18
say a man can be a woman and a woman can be a man,
51:20
that tells you how far it's gone.
51:22
Well, Jacob, that's not a good faith discussion.
51:25
It's certainly not a good faith discussion.
51:26
It's not based in any form of reality.
51:29
But the other thing about it is,
51:30
is there's this new attitude amongst Christians
51:35
and certain pastors is I wanna be known for what I'm for,
51:38
not what I'm against.
51:40
And people that will say that bumper sticker slogan
51:43
or will stand by it, don't understand that
51:45
when you say you are for something,
51:48
you automatically communicate that you are against other
51:51
things, whether we're talking about your favorite ice cream
51:54
or we're talking about transgenderism or abortion.
51:56
That's exactly what you're communicating.
51:59
And so, but go ahead, you want to hop back in?
52:01
- No, I was gonna say, the guys that say that,
52:03
I know them and I can name them, I know their faces.
52:06
I'll tell you what, they're against people
52:08
that are against things and I'll let you know that.
52:11
So I'm self-righteously, I'm only around,
52:14
I'm only four certain things.
52:16
Well, the minute you get a guy that's against something,
52:17
they're against him.
52:19
- Right, well, the thing about it is it's like,
52:21
it's the same as the people that are like,
52:23
well, you should be more tolerant.
52:24
It's like, I agree, tolerance is important.
52:27
Will you be tolerant of my disputatious attitude
52:30
towards your nonsense worldview?
52:32
No, okay, well, your entire argument is now in the trash bin
52:37
because it makes no sense whatsoever.
52:39
So, Jacob. - Yeah, that's a card trick.
52:40
- Yeah, absolutely, it's a card trick.
52:42
But we're running close to time here,
52:43
so I do want to end with this one question.
52:45
Another thing that you guys talk about in the film
52:48
is the importance of having children,
52:49
but also creating a Christian village.
52:52
And what's interesting about that wording
52:54
is my wife, even in the last few weeks,
52:56
has been talking about our village, our village a lot.
52:59
And what she's talking about are the Christian families
53:02
and couples in our lives that we are doing life with.
53:05
So these are the people that we go to the same church.
53:07
We're in the same Sunday school.
53:09
We're doing dinner and life together.
53:11
We're praying for one another.
53:12
We're taking our kids to the same private Christian schools
53:15
or whatever the thing is for you and your village.
53:18
But talk to me about the importance of a Christian village
53:20
because this isn't about, okay, we're gonna have our village
53:23
and we're just gonna pretend as if society doesn't exist.
53:26
And we're gonna not care about being salt and light.
53:28
We're just gonna stay here in our little cocoon
53:30
and watch veggie tales and then not ever challenge one another.
53:33
But talk to me about the importance of being in this fight,
53:36
being able to push back against the darkness in culture
53:38
and the darkness of government
53:40
by having a Christian village.
53:41
- Well, you could imagine that in the height
53:45
of our persecution and lockdown,
53:48
there was a lot of conversations going on should we leave, right?
53:53
Florida is looking very attractive right now.
53:56
But we have had two, maybe two families, I think,
54:03
out of a church of 1,200 people,
54:06
two families that moved to United States, three, I think,
54:10
three, two to Florida and one to,
54:13
I think it was Missouri or something like that.
54:17
But anyway, but the majority don't even think it.
54:21
They don't talk about it.
54:23
And the reason is, I think most of us have realized
54:26
that there's so much love and unity
54:29
and love of Christ within the church
54:33
that I'd rather live in Trudeau's Canada
54:37
with a lovely Christ-centered church than I would,
54:41
that knows me and that I know
54:43
than Ron DeSantis's Florida without a church.
54:47
Because there's so much life
54:50
and joy and strength that comes from,
54:55
and this is why our community, our civil leaders,
54:57
don't know how to deal with us.
54:59
How do you deal with a church of 1,200 people
55:03
that's that united?
55:05
And it's amazing, actually,
55:07
how such a small minority of people
55:10
who are resolute and unified
55:14
can make such a massive difference
55:16
in one city of the United States.
55:19
So we live in the Waterloo region.
55:20
There's 600,000 people in this region.
55:24
But our little church at 1,200 people
55:28
has really, really, really impacted this community
55:32
in a way that is way, way, way, way, way outside.
55:36
Like we're swinging way above our league,
55:38
but out of our league, out of our weight class.
55:41
But I think that's because it's such a fractured society
55:45
where everyone's doing their own little individualistic thing
55:48
and they're all little bunch of little marbles
55:52
that are moving around.
55:54
But then you have all of these marbles
55:55
that have come together and have been glued together
55:57
with crazy glue, the other little wee marbles
56:00
don't know how to deal with us.
56:01
And so I think not only for the sake of your own soul,
56:05
do you need a community that's bound by covenant and love
56:09
and the Holy Spirit of God and Jesus Christ
56:12
and the gospel of Jesus Christ,
56:14
that that's good for your soul.
56:16
But boy, is it a testimony to the surrounding world
56:19
that just doesn't, like you're a hot potato.
56:21
There's nothing we can do.
56:24
That like there's a national, the state broadcaster, CBC.
56:29
It's funded by the Trudeau government.
56:31
They're a lefty propaganda machine.
56:34
They're actually doing, they're researching our church
56:37
right now, it's a national, national corporation.
56:41
Like, you know, it's huge.
56:43
And they're researching our church right now
56:45
to do a documentary on us.
56:46
And so, and I think there's gonna be other Christians
56:50
that are involved in it too, but they're certainly,
56:51
they're going, you know, they've sent people
56:53
into our parking lot and we just tell them to leave
56:54
and they send us emails.
56:56
And you'd think that we'd be sitting here, you know,
57:00
oh, what's gonna happen?
57:01
Big mean CBC's gonna do a documentary
57:03
in an hour long hit piece with all their money on,
57:06
and we're sitting here laughing.
57:07
We honestly don't care.
57:10
And I think that comes from a faith in God that we have
57:13
and then it comes from the unity that we share as a people.
57:16
And it's actually a lovely thing,
57:18
and this is what Jesus talked about
57:19
when he talked about being a reproach.
57:22
Like there's a power in embracing the shame
57:25
and the scandal of the cross.
57:26
And it's through that, and this is what the seeker sensitive,
57:28
we, you know, if we're wrapping things up,
57:30
we started with the seeker movement
57:32
and this is what they missed.
57:33
It's the spiritual power that comes
57:35
when the Christian community embraces the scandal
57:39
and shame of the cross and the world
57:42
doesn't know how to handle it.
57:43
And that's very attractive,
57:45
and that's how God draws people into his kingdom.
57:48
- I think that's a great place to leave it.
57:49
I mean, we've talked about a lot of things in this podcast
57:52
are certainly more to discuss,
57:53
but we'll have to leave it there.
57:54
Is there anything else you wanna get off your chest
57:56
before we let you out of here?
57:57
- Thank you, Kyle, for having me,
57:59
and check out antichristocumentary.com.
58:02
- Guys, it is in the show notes.
58:04
You can check it out.
58:04
Jacob Rehome, thank you for coming
58:06
on Undaunted Life of Man's podcast.
58:08
- My pleasure.
58:09
- There you go, guys.
58:10
I hope you enjoyed my time with Jacob Rehome,
58:11
but before we let you go,
58:12
we are gonna do a quick resilience boost.
58:14
Add Undaunted Life, our mission is equipping men
58:16
to push bad darkness with content
58:17
that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
58:20
So the only thing I've got for you today
58:21
is linked to where you can go and rent or buy antichrist
58:24
and his ruined guys.
58:25
Definitely go and check that out.
58:27
Thank you guys for listening to this episode.
58:29
Wherever you're listening to this,
58:30
please subscribe, rate, and leave us a positive five star
58:32
of you.
58:33
If you want me to come speak live at your event
58:34
or on your podcast, you shoot me an email to info
58:37
at undonton.life.
58:38
That's i-n-f-o at undonton.life.
58:41
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58:42
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58:44
including how to donate to keep more content
58:45
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58:46
Just go to www.undonton.life.
58:49
And as always, we want to thank the band August Burns Red
58:51
for allowing us to use their music for our content.
58:53
The music on this podcast is our song "Cutting the Tides,"
58:56
which is off their 10th anniversary
58:57
re-recording of their album Leveler.
58:59
The links are in the description.
59:01
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
59:03
Remember, keep pushing back darkness,
59:06
keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
59:09
Keep seeking the Lion of Judah.
59:11
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59:39
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