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0:59
This is Undaunted Life a Man's Podcast.
1:24
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
1:25
Let's get into it.
1:27
All right, guys, we've got a very special return guest on the show,
1:29
and that is Jack Carr.
1:30
This is his fourth time on the show.
1:32
But if you're not familiar with who he is, he is a retired Navy SEAL.
1:35
He spent 20 years in Naval Special Warfare.
1:37
And then afterwards, he got out and decided to write fiction thrillers.
1:40
And he's pretty darn good at it.
1:41
He's the number one New York Times bestselling fiction thriller of the James
1:45
Reese series, which includes the terminal list, true believer, savage son,
1:49
the devil's hand in the blood and only the dead.
1:52
His debut novel, the terminal list, which is on our 100 books,
1:55
Every Modern Christian Man should read list, was adapted for the screen,
1:58
starring Chris Pratt.
1:59
And it became the number one Amazon Prime video series at the time it was released.
2:04
It's been re-watched in a whole lot as well.
2:06
That led to the announcement of season two of the terminal list with Chris Pratt
2:10
and also a spin-off series about Ben Edwards, played by Taylor Kitch.
2:13
We talk about that in the interview today.
2:15
But we're talking also about his latest book in the James Reese series.
2:19
And that is Red Sky Morning.
2:21
It is out now if you're listening to this on time.
2:23
It is out now.
2:24
You can check it out.
2:24
There is a link in the show notes.
2:25
It is the seventh novel in the series.
2:28
And as I mentioned before, he's been on three other times.
2:30
We're very, very happy to have him.
2:31
We're always happy to have him on the show.
2:33
But we didn't just talk about the terminal list, the James Reese series,
2:36
spin-offs, the new novel.
2:38
We spent a lot of time at the beginning talking about the 80th anniversary of D-Day
2:41
because he went over to Europe because there's the filming of the prequel series
2:45
that will be coming out at some point on Amazon.
2:47
But he spent a lot of time in Normandy.
2:49
And we talk about that.
2:50
We talk about how the people of Normandy see America and the pride they still have.
2:54
And seeing all of the veterans of that war that are near 100 or over 100 years old,
2:59
being there with his daughter and getting to see his daughter and son experience that.
3:04
But also the difference between what the youth of Normandy think about America
3:08
and what the youth of America think about America.
3:11
Again, you have youth here in this country that think what happened
3:14
on October the seventh of last year was justified because they've been kind of marinating
3:18
in this milieu of the public school system and Marxism and socialism and communism
3:23
and they're kind of into all these ideas.
3:25
And they've come around to thinking that, well, maybe what Hamas did wasn't so bad.
3:29
And so we talk about that.
3:30
We talk about the upcoming presidential election,
3:33
how regardless of what the outcome is, we're going to see unrest.
3:36
We're going to see riots in some ways that I think we're all expecting for the country
3:40
to burn at least to a certain degree.
3:42
But then we do dig into a lot of questions about the Dark Wolf series.
3:45
That's the spin-off actually of the terminal list.
3:47
And that's going to be the one that follows the character Ben Edwards,
3:50
played by Taylor Kitch.
3:51
We talk about when true believer is going to come out with Chris Pratt thereafter.
3:55
We dig into the new novel, but here's the thing.
3:57
Got to announce this.
3:58
We did the same thing last year and you guys loved it.
4:00
But I have a specialty, a special treat for those of you
4:04
that have already read "Red Sky Morning" or listened to it.
4:07
We're going to do our normal interview.
4:09
Then I'm going to do my normal outro.
4:11
And then you'll get to the end of our outro music.
4:14
And then Jack is sticking around for a spoilers-only segment
4:19
where we talk about "Red Sky Morning."
4:20
So guys, if you're listening to this on time and you have not read "Red Sky Morning" yet,
4:25
if you've not listened to it, make sure you stay off social media
4:27
so you miss spoilers on social media, but also also also also.
4:30
Do not listen to the segment after the outro.
4:33
I don't know how many times I have to say it, but I'll say it one more time.
4:35
If you've not read "Red Sky Morning" or listened to "Red Sky Morning,"
4:38
do not listen to the section that takes place after the outro music of this
4:42
because there will be spoilers, you're not going to want to go there.
4:45
So guys, very, very excited about this when I had a great time with Jack.
4:48
So without further ado, let's get into it.
4:52
Jack Carr, welcome back to the show.
4:53
This is now your fourth appearance on Undaunted Life of Man's podcast.
4:57
Now, I just need to know where we rank.
5:00
So is it like number one New York Times bestselling author,
5:04
number one show on Amazon, fourth appearance on Undaunted Life of Man's podcast?
5:08
Is that kind of where we're at right now?
5:11
I'd put you between maybe those two.
5:12
So I'll move you open up and this is floor.
5:15
I'm OK with the meat of that sandwich.
5:17
That's good, as long as we're on the Mount Rushmore.
5:19
Let's do it.
5:19
Yeah, yeah, man.
5:20
Awesome.
5:21
OK, very good line, dude.
5:23
Hey, it's always great talking to you.
5:25
Now, this is the first time we've talked to you in your new library.
5:28
So let's talk about that.
5:29
That is quite the setup you got behind you.
5:32
Not bad.
5:33
Not bad.
5:33
Yeah, it's almost there.
5:36
I kind of was in the middle of writing when I started moving in up here,
5:39
because I wouldn't have to rush off to another place in town,
5:42
borrow a friend's house.
5:44
So I'm organized.
5:46
I'm pretty good in here, but not quite there, getting closer.
5:50
I mean, it's my own organization, the way I do it,
5:54
like by timeline, by war, whether it's terrorism, general,
5:57
insurgency, general or a specific part of the world, that sort of thing.
6:00
So this is the non-fiction room, aside from inflamming over here
6:04
and a couple of mine.
6:06
And then all the fiction is in the other room over there.
6:08
So there's another section over there that's all the fiction.
6:12
So yeah, it's not a bad spot.
6:14
Well, it may not be up to your liking right now, but from this angle,
6:17
it looks absolutely fantastic.
6:18
So I'm very, very satisfied with it.
6:20
But before we dig into any of the content, the new novel,
6:23
any of that type of stuff, we need to talk about you just getting back from Europe.
6:26
And so some people go to Europe to find themselves.
6:28
Some people go to walk some old cobblestone streets.
6:31
But you were there for the 80th anniversary of the D-Day invasion.
6:36
And you and your family did a ton of stuff there.
6:39
I know it was fairly important for you to see even your kids doing some stuff over there.
6:43
So take us through that whole experience, Jack.
6:46
Yeah, so the Best Defense Foundation, founded by Donnie Edwards, former NFL player
6:52
and awesome guy, met him, gosh, maybe almost a decade ago now, I guess.
6:57
But when he was in the NFL, he started just taking World War II veterans back
7:01
to the battlefields on which they fought just on his own time.
7:04
Someone mentioned they wanted to go back.
7:06
And he started doing that.
7:07
And his grandfather was at Pearl Harbor in December of 1941.
7:12
So he passed on all these lessons to Donnie.
7:15
And so he has this special place in his heart for veterans, particularly World War II veterans.
7:19
So first time I went and did it was for the 80th anniversary commemoration events
7:23
of Pearl Harbor.
7:24
Took my daughter back there when she was 15.
7:26
And seeing her interact with these veterans all nearing 100 years old,
7:30
some over 100 years old, then even was maybe so proud.
7:35
And it was so great for them.
7:36
They loved talking to someone in her generation.
7:39
And it was amazing to see them just click together.
7:42
So then that June for the 78th commemoration events for D-Day,
7:48
we went back to Normandy, did that together as well.
7:51
And it's a lot.
7:53
I mean, you are carrying for these veterans.
7:56
You're taking them, getting in and out of their rooms,
7:58
in and out of their wheelchair, as to all these different events,
8:00
making sure they're eating, making sure they're taking their medicines,
8:02
like all of that.
8:03
And it's so rewarding.
8:05
And she got to learn so much from these guys.
8:08
And this time, for the 80th, we did the same thing.
8:10
But I brought my son over as well.
8:12
So he was a little young to actually do the care.
8:17
But he got to shake their hands, look them in the eye, and say,
8:19
thank you to as many World War II veterans as he possibly could.
8:22
So the thing that stood out in the 78th and this one
8:25
is just how much the people of Normandy
8:28
appreciate what was done for them years ago.
8:31
And they have not forgotten, and they passed it down.
8:34
So we go to a school visit, and there's
8:36
kids, like five years old all the way up in the school visit
8:39
with probably kindergarten, 8th grade, and American flags everywhere.
8:44
And they are so appreciative.
8:46
You can tell in their face how excited they
8:48
are to thank a World War II veteran.
8:50
We make these baseball cards for them, so it has their stats on it.
8:53
And they sign them and hand them out to the kids.
8:55
And the kids are all collecting these things.
8:57
They talk about what they did in the war on the back,
8:59
and how they look like now, and then what they look like then.
9:02
And it's just such a great experience for everyone.
9:04
But seeing all of Normandy come out, it is absolutely insane.
9:09
There's a sign for American flags.
9:11
There's 82nd Airborne flags, 101st Airborne flags.
9:14
Everybody's dressed up in period clothing.
9:16
There are Jeeps everywhere, military Jeeps from that era.
9:19
There are Harley motorcycles, Indian motorcycles from World
9:22
War II.
9:23
It is absolutely incredible to see
9:24
I wish every American could experience it.
9:26
Well, I mean, I couldn't get over there to experience it.
9:29
So I was living vicariously through you
9:31
and a bunch of other friends of mine.
9:32
I knew probably half a dozen people personally
9:34
that were over there taking care of business.
9:36
And as you were describing that, Jack,
9:38
I was struck by what you were describing
9:41
with the people of Normandy and specifically the youth.
9:44
And then I contrast that with what we see here
9:46
in this country with our youth, how they see our veterans,
9:50
how they see our involvement of wars of any kind,
9:52
not just the GWAT, not just modern wars,
9:55
but some of the older wars.
9:56
But then even specifically, Matt, October,
9:59
or in October the 7th, we see people going to the mat
10:03
to fight about why Hamas is in the right,
10:07
why all the free Palestine stuff.
10:10
And we see that the protests going on around the country.
10:14
And so talk to me a little bit about that
10:15
because I think we have a moral sickness.
10:18
I think this isn't going out on a limb.
10:20
We have a moral sickness that has certainly
10:22
infested our young children of this country.
10:25
But to see them denigrate the sacrifices
10:27
of soldiers of any era and then to get behind a group
10:32
whose express purpose is to murder, rape, and eradicate
10:36
an entire race of people, it just, it boggles the mind, Jack.
10:39
- I know, and it's hard not to think about those things
10:42
when you're over at Normandy seeing those flags.
10:44
I mean, the whole side of the school,
10:45
huge American flag on the side of the school
10:48
has moved up with the veterans, all the kids outside,
10:51
just screaming and yelling and waving those flags
10:53
and waiting for us to unload these guys
10:55
from the buses, get them in their wheelchairs
10:57
and then wheel them in, and they're just going crazy.
10:59
I mean, it's like a rock star, it's insane.
11:02
So when you see that, it is hard not to compare it
11:05
to what you see in this country or what you think
11:08
you would see if you brought a World War II veteran
11:10
to a school in the United States.
11:12
Unfortunately, I don't think they would get
11:15
the same kind of reception as they got in Normandy.
11:18
And I think the difference is that they were occupied
11:21
in France particularly, and then of course in Normandy,
11:25
there's our landings.
11:26
And to have my kids standing on the beach at Omaha
11:30
and in Omaha Beach and talking to someone
11:32
who's first out of his landing craft on D-Day,
11:35
I mean, that's pretty, pretty powerful.
11:36
So running across those beaches,
11:38
looking up at the, and you're looking at that,
11:40
that's a long way to run and you're thinking,
11:42
look at all this open space and look at the high ground
11:44
up there occupied by the Germans and where,
11:46
and you can talk to these guys and they're pointing out
11:48
where the machine gun that you can see the bunkers,
11:51
a lot of the bunkers are still there.
11:52
You can see like a trench networks,
11:54
that's grown over, but they also point out
11:56
where just like the sandbag positions were,
11:58
where the temporary type positions were
12:00
with machine guns on that day.
12:02
So it's really, it's hard not to think about
12:07
the differences between the United States and France
12:11
when it comes to the appreciation for what was done for them.
12:13
But I think it's being occupied and then being liberated
12:18
because you think that it would dilute
12:21
as you tell those stories and pass them on
12:23
to these different generations.
12:25
You think that stories would dilute a bit and they have not.
12:28
There's just as much excitement and appreciation,
12:31
authentic appreciation in the faces of these kids
12:34
as there are in the adults and it's remarkable to see.
12:37
And now in the United States,
12:38
I know I mentioned that you,
12:39
I don't think I'd see that in the United States,
12:40
but the closest I've seen and it is almost the same
12:45
was in Honolulu for the 80th Pearl Harbor events.
12:48
And the last day there they had a parade
12:51
and people came out and once again, what happened there?
12:54
Well, they were attacked, obviously not occupied,
12:57
but they were attacked.
12:58
And so I think that's something that is,
13:01
that's similar between what happened in Hawaii,
13:03
what happened in France, although different,
13:05
one occupied, one just attacked,
13:07
but that same type of feeling was evident in the thanks
13:12
that the people were giving to these World War II veterans,
13:15
both in that parade in Honolulu and in Normandy.
13:18
But it's not just a day in Normandy, it's not just June 6th,
13:21
it is two full weeks of events out there
13:24
and it does not slow down.
13:26
There is a day we left was just,
13:28
there was just as much excitement as there was the day we arrived
13:31
and it's incredible to witness.
13:33
- It's certainly incredible to witness.
13:36
So probably one of the most moving things that I saw,
13:38
which I shared on our Instagram was this veteran
13:41
that was being walked out to the beach
13:44
and got his feet in the water.
13:46
And it was basically all he could to physically bend over
13:49
and touch the water with his hands
13:51
and just to look on his face.
13:53
And even right now, like I'm getting overwhelmed
13:55
with emotion just thinking about,
13:56
'cause that's not a beach, you know what I mean?
13:58
That's not just sand, that's not just water.
14:00
That was this guy's life.
14:02
He can still smell the dead bodies, I'm sure.
14:04
He can still know, you know,
14:07
if he was going to the bathroom in his pants on the way
14:09
before they dropped him off on the boats
14:12
and it's just an incredible thing.
14:14
And then I look at where we are now
14:16
and that was kind of what I alluded to in the last question.
14:19
But Jack, as we sit here in the summer of 2024
14:21
were just months away from a presidential election.
14:25
And I see this in some of your writings.
14:28
I can kind of pick up on this on the novels,
14:29
but I'm not usually worried about elections
14:32
'cause it's like, yeah, your guy may win,
14:33
your guy may lose, but we'll move on.
14:35
Something feels different about 2024, Jack.
14:38
And I'm not an alarmist.
14:39
I don't like to be hyperbolic
14:41
for the sake of seeming extreme.
14:43
I feel like there is going to be guaranteed unrest
14:47
regardless of who wins 'cause it's either
14:49
the election was stolen, right?
14:52
Both parties will make that argument.
14:54
Or, you know, Hitler is incarnate
14:56
and now staying in the White House
14:58
or back in the White House.
15:00
And I think either way, the country's gonna burn.
15:02
And again, I don't wanna be hyperbolic.
15:04
I keep saying that, but I just don't want it to be that way.
15:06
What's your read 'cause you have a very deep appreciation
15:10
for history, but also the norms of society
15:12
and what that leads to in terms of narratives politically.
15:16
What's your read on what we're gonna be seeing
15:17
at the beginning of November of this year?
15:19
- Well, unfortunately, I have the same concerns,
15:22
but I do, I think back to the 1860s
15:25
and I think back to the end of the Civil War
15:28
and I think back to how that country,
15:31
our country came together again after an actual war
15:36
that claimed more lives than any other war
15:38
we've been involved in.
15:40
And when you still have people on sides back then
15:44
that didn't want us to come back together.
15:47
So I think about that, but then I think,
15:52
well, what didn't we have back in the 1860s?
15:55
Well, we didn't have social media.
15:57
We didn't have this virtual way to continue to divide
16:01
and influence thoughts and behaviors
16:04
in your pocket at 24 hours a day, essentially.
16:08
And a populace that might not even realize
16:11
that they're being manipulated.
16:13
And that awareness is something I think
16:15
that is a baseline when engaging on social channels
16:19
or engaging over modern platforms,
16:21
is that it's not just a commercial trying to sell you
16:24
a new laundry detergent, like back in the '80s
16:26
as you wait for your show to pick back up.
16:28
It is something that is controlling your very thoughts
16:32
and not necessarily to your benefit at the same time.
16:38
So if you've got that piece and that awareness
16:41
is probably a baseline from which to then move forward,
16:44
but they didn't have that in the 1860s.
16:46
So had they, do you think we would come back together?
16:49
I don't know, but we'll never know.
16:51
But it is there today and it's a tool like all tools
16:54
that can be used for essentially good or evil.
16:57
And not necessarily the person engaging
17:02
on social channels even knows that they're being used
17:06
and this tool is being used to manipulate them.
17:08
So I don't have any good answers,
17:09
but I would say be prepared.
17:12
I was good to be prepared.
17:13
- Certainly.
17:14
And I mean, even here recently,
17:14
I'm sure you saw where they brought smartphones
17:17
and social media to this remote tribe in the Amazon.
17:21
And within days or weeks,
17:24
these people were obsessed with
17:26
and probably addicted to watching pornography
17:29
and scrolling social media.
17:32
So like the elder--
17:33
- Oh my gosh.
17:34
- Oh my gosh.
17:35
- Jack, you need to go look that up
17:36
because the elders of the village are like,
17:38
what happened, we haven't seen our youth,
17:41
it's because they're inside scrolling porn and social media.
17:45
And so it's like that gives you an idea.
17:46
These people aren't digital natives
17:48
and there's no tongue in cheek there.
17:49
They're not digital natives, like kids born,
17:52
like my kids are four and two, they'll be digital natives.
17:54
They've grown up around technology
17:56
and they've seen technology in pockets
17:58
and in the palms of their hands.
18:00
That is not what this group is
18:01
and they become completely and utterly obsessed.
18:04
So that just kind of gives over to like the power
18:07
of these tools and of AI and quantum computing
18:10
and we'll certainly get there here in a second.
18:12
But we need to move from all that depressing stuff
18:14
that makes everyone sad to some fun stuff, okay?
18:16
So let's talk about your work on the big,
18:19
the big-ish screen.
18:20
So obviously the terminal list
18:21
was an absolute grand slam on Amazon.
18:24
I was so excited to see that it was successful
18:26
'cause I was nervous.
18:27
I thought, oh gosh, what if it sucks?
18:29
And then it certainly didn't suck.
18:30
But it was like, okay, it doesn't suck,
18:31
but what if no one watches it?
18:32
And that didn't work out either because everyone
18:35
decided to watch it and they're re-watching it.
18:37
But as far as I know right now,
18:39
the prequel spin-off series called the Terminal List Dark Wolf
18:43
is, I guess it's in production or pre-production right now.
18:47
It's gonna be following Ben Edwards,
18:48
which we were introduced to in the Terminal List.
18:50
That's gonna be played by Taylor Kitch.
18:52
So where are we out in the process of the filming of that?
18:55
What's the plot gonna be?
18:57
How much involvement do you have?
18:59
Let's just start there.
19:01
Yeah, well, Amazon will never share the exact numbers.
19:04
Like all the social media companies,
19:06
they don't share that data with anyone.
19:08
But the indication is that things worked out very well
19:13
on their investment in the Terminal List
19:16
because we have this spin-off prequel origin story
19:19
and we have a second season with True Believer
19:21
that we'll move into when we're done filming
19:23
this Dark Wolf that you mentioned.
19:25
So that's a good sign.
19:27
And right now we're filming it.
19:29
It's over filming it over in Europe right now.
19:31
So that's where I was before I was up in Normandy
19:33
for the D-Day commemoration events.
19:36
And I got to create this show
19:37
with David DiGillio, the show runner
19:40
and really from, so it's from its very inception
19:42
all the way through where it is now.
19:44
I've been involved in every turn
19:46
from creating it, outlining it,
19:48
picking the writers for the writers' room, casting.
19:51
So it's been fantastic.
19:54
And I got to learn a lot on the process
19:56
bringing the Terminal List to the screens.
19:59
So I got to learn a ton there as an executive producer
20:02
and give my input on all the scripts
20:04
and then when I was on set and all those things.
20:06
So I learned a ton so I can add even more value
20:08
this time around and getting to create it
20:10
with David DiGillio was absolutely amazing.
20:12
So if the scripts are any indication
20:14
and what I've seen so far of the filming
20:16
is any indication this is gonna be an awesome show.
20:19
And it really follows Ben Edwards
20:21
from the SEAL teams into the CIA,
20:23
shows that journey and so as a viewer you'll be able
20:28
to figure out why he could do the things
20:33
that he did in the Terminal List.
20:34
So that's a way to get around the thing
20:36
and he spoilers right there for anyone
20:38
who hasn't seen it or read the book.
20:39
But the Ben Edwards character was one that
20:42
I think the writers in the writers' room
20:43
for the show for the first one did such a better job
20:47
with than I did in the book.
20:48
And they added so much more nuance to the character
20:52
and then Taylor Kitch showed up
20:54
and just took it to a whole another level.
20:56
So that's something I think that was done a lot better
20:58
in the show than was done in the book.
21:00
And Taylor is just an awesome guy all the way around.
21:04
So filming that right now and it's looking awesome.
21:06
So I think it's gonna absolutely crush.
21:08
- Now what Chris Pratt did with James Reese,
21:10
I feel like Taylor Kitch did with Ben Edwards.
21:12
And so are we gonna get to know
21:14
where he got his shotgun prowess?
21:16
So I think anyone who watched the show,
21:18
are we gonna have any illusions to that
21:21
in the prequel series?
21:22
- Yep, y'all too, to tune in,
21:24
but there just may be a shotgun in there.
21:26
But interesting filming overseas.
21:28
I mean, I was always forgiving when I saw things in shows,
21:32
you know, that didn't quite fit or whatever else.
21:34
So always 'cause I didn't wanna,
21:35
you know, you don't wanna make yourself miserable,
21:38
those around you miserable, you know,
21:40
unless it's like just so blatant that it's hard to ignore.
21:44
But I'm even more forgiving now.
21:46
First after seeing all it takes to bring a show to life
21:49
and that was filming in the United States
21:51
with all, with access to all the gear to the weapons
21:55
to everything that you may need.
21:56
Now when you go overseas and try to do that,
21:59
moving weapons in through all these export and import forms,
22:04
ATF form, it is very difficult to get the weaponry right
22:09
if you're filming in another country.
22:11
And so I'm even more forgiving now when I see something
22:14
on screen, especially if I know that they filmed it
22:16
in another country.
22:17
You can't just like go back to the armory
22:19
unless six months earlier, you've pulled out the paperwork
22:22
and had it shipped four months earlier.
22:24
You're just not gonna get that thing that you need
22:25
if there's a change in the script.
22:27
But that's a long way of saying that there'll be some good
22:32
stuff in there for people.
22:33
But it's also very difficult to do things like that overseas.
22:38
So it's just how it is.
22:41
But it's gonna crush, you gotta adapt.
22:43
You know, just like anything else in life,
22:44
you know, you can't get the exact weapon that you want
22:46
for something.
22:47
And you're like, oh, especially for someone like me
22:48
where weapons tell a story, well, then you'd make you adapt
22:52
and you have to figure out, and that's the problem-solving
22:54
piece of it.
22:54
That's being creative and working with what you have.
22:59
So it's gonna be good.
23:02
And it really, it starts off as a, you know,
23:05
action military side 'cause it's transitioning
23:07
from seals to the intelligence side of the house.
23:09
And then it turns into more of an espionage thriller
23:11
from there, still with a lot of action.
23:13
But it has that more of an espionage feel to it.
23:16
Whereas the terminal list was a conspiracy thriller,
23:18
a psychological thriller, action thriller,
23:20
this turns from action into an espionage type thriller.
23:24
So I don't think, I think that's probably
23:28
everything I can say about this.
23:29
- Okay, all right.
23:29
We don't wanna get you in trouble.
23:30
We don't want you to violate any NDAs.
23:32
But so you went, or Amazon, I guess y'all went
23:36
with the prequel spin-off Dark Wolf first
23:39
as opposed to doing, you know, continuing the terminal list
23:42
with True Believer.
23:43
So here we are, you know, for fans of the novels,
23:46
we're ready for, you know, James Reese to go to Africa.
23:48
And then it's like, you know, pause, pump the brakes.
23:50
We actually are gonna go back in time
23:51
and come back to this.
23:52
So can you give me an idea of like what,
23:55
what the decision-making process looked like?
23:57
Was that because of like Taylor's schedule?
23:59
Was it because of Chris's schedule?
24:00
Because, you know, Chris isn't a spring chicken
24:03
and this is obviously a very physical
24:04
and intensive role of playing James Reese,
24:07
not just for a motion picture, but for an entire season,
24:10
like an eight to 10 hour long motion picture.
24:13
What was kind of the reason for doing the prequel
24:14
as opposed to just keeping the James Reese saga going?
24:17
- Yeah, well, I mean, I guess you could film them both
24:20
at the same time, but you have to,
24:22
you have a creative team that stays the same.
24:24
So I think you need to, it gets more difficult,
24:26
spreads you more thin if you're gonna try to do things
24:29
at the same time, you know, run two shows at the same time.
24:33
So scheduling certainly is a huge part of what game first.
24:38
I mean, we wanted to do the spin-off,
24:40
but scheduling lies, you know, guys at Chris's
24:43
and Taylor's levels are, you know, they're booked up,
24:46
you know, they're in demand.
24:47
So it's just, and then you have a writer strike on top of that.
24:49
And even though the writer strike wasn't a year long,
24:52
it did put us back probably by about a year
24:55
when everything compounds upon itself.
24:57
So the writer strike certainly impacted scheduling,
25:02
probably by about a year, I'd say.
25:03
And then of course Chris's schedule
25:05
and Taylor's schedule has dictate a lot of this.
25:07
So all those things come together
25:09
and, you know, you see comments online,
25:10
I don't really respond to them,
25:12
but sometimes I see them, you know, people like,
25:14
why didn't Jubilee refer someone?
25:16
Yeah, well, Chris has to film five other movies in that time.
25:20
So, you know, I guess you can doctor his manager,
25:23
person commenting or whatever,
25:25
but you know, those things are scheduled years in advance.
25:28
So it's all part of the process and it's all great.
25:31
- Yeah, it's like, look, he's got to be star Lord
25:33
and he's got to be Garfield and he's got some other stuff
25:35
that no one knows about yet.
25:36
And he's doing a bunch of other things.
25:37
But you mentioned a movie there in filming movies.
25:41
I don't necessarily want this
25:42
because I like the way y'all got the term of listen,
25:45
how you set it up over, you know, episodic season,
25:48
but is there any chance that at some point
25:50
during the James Reese universe,
25:51
we will have a major motion picture?
25:53
- Ooh, interesting question.
25:56
We shall see.
25:57
I guess the best way to answer that one.
25:59
- All right, so I do like making people jealous, Jack.
26:03
It's one of my favorite things.
26:04
I like making people uncomfortable
26:05
and I like making people jealous.
26:06
And that could never have been more so true
26:09
than whenever you sent me this beautiful thing
26:11
for only the dead.
26:12
So this is like the special,
26:14
if you're only listening to this right now,
26:15
this was the special hard case with the book
26:17
and everything in there.
26:18
And, you know, I was a little disappointed last year
26:20
and myself I didn't make the coolest video
26:23
'cause like, you know, the Haley strategic guy
26:25
basically made a short film to show this.
26:28
I think Tim Kennedy jumped out of a helicopter
26:30
on an airplane to end up grabbing this.
26:32
My buddy Chad Robocho did something as well.
26:34
So if you sent, are you sending this out again?
26:36
- Yeah, that was amazing.
26:39
That's it with the helicopter.
26:41
Chad did the jump out of a plane.
26:44
Tulsi Gabbard came out of the ocean.
26:47
Hers was, we may have the Magnum theme behind it,
26:49
which was amazing.
26:50
Yeah, Travis did the short film, like you said,
26:55
Sniper Operation there.
26:56
So people got so creative.
26:57
That was so cool to see.
26:59
It was just, you know, humbling and so fun
27:01
to see that stuff.
27:02
- Well now see, so I've got an idea in mind for this year.
27:04
Are you sending these out again
27:06
for the new one, Red Sky Morning?
27:08
- As soon as we're done with this,
27:10
I walk downstairs and continue boxing and signing.
27:13
- Well, Jack, I know I am already on the list
27:15
'cause I was on the list last year,
27:16
but I got some special for you this year.
27:18
I don't know if I'm gonna outdo all these people
27:19
that apparently walk around with an entire production crew.
27:22
But I just gotta tell you, the new novel, Red Sky Morning.
27:25
Look at this thing, it is absolutely beautiful.
27:27
There's a nice little Easter egg right there
27:30
for those of you all that will end up reading this
27:32
with the plane, but you're going on tour in support of this.
27:36
I think this is the first time
27:37
you've actually done like a book tour
27:38
for one of your releases.
27:39
This is the seventh novel in James Reece series.
27:42
Like you're just deepening the story.
27:44
You're deepening our connection with James Reece,
27:46
his character, his family, you know, his extended family,
27:50
you know, friends that are like deeper than blood
27:52
and all that.
27:52
So let's talk about the seventh novel, the seventh thriller.
27:57
What is it about this one that's gonna get everybody going?
27:59
What's the plot gonna be like?
28:01
How excited are you to go on tour?
28:03
- Yeah, so every book has a theme that helps guide
28:06
the writing process.
28:07
I write it on the yellow sticky and I put it right there
28:09
so that anything that I write is either tied directly
28:14
or more importantly indirectly to that theme.
28:16
So this one was about loyalty and questions of loyalty.
28:19
So that was the guiding principle here.
28:22
And I explore that through really this autonomous control
28:26
of different military platforms,
28:27
quantum computing, artificial intelligence,
28:30
passive targeting, hypersonic missiles,
28:33
and feasibility, the relationship between China,
28:37
the United States and Taiwan.
28:39
So that was really the baseline.
28:44
I introduced a character called Alice,
28:45
a quantum computer, really a sentient quantum computer
28:48
two books ago in "In the Blood."
28:50
And I did so much research, I had no touch point
28:52
with quantum computing or artificial intelligence
28:54
in the military.
28:55
So I did a ton of research for that book and I'd be shocked
28:58
if what I've described in that book two years ago
29:01
is significantly different than as it's written.
29:06
And then for the next one,
29:08
I didn't want to rely on that character as a crutch,
29:11
meaning I didn't want to have James Reese's,
29:14
like Michael Knight in the '80s call the kit car
29:17
and his watch, you know, and all of a sudden saves the day.
29:19
So I had to sideline her for the next novel
29:21
just to make sure that I wasn't tempted to use her
29:24
as a crutch.
29:25
But I've introduced this character now
29:26
and since that book came out,
29:29
chat GPT has become part of the lexicon,
29:31
artificial intelligence becomes at the forefront
29:34
of people's minds when they're thinking
29:36
about their profession and their careers,
29:38
their children's impact on the future,
29:40
part of the writer strike was had a deal with AI
29:43
in Hollywood, that was a significant contention point.
29:47
So since I wrote that book,
29:49
artificial intelligence, chat GPT in particular
29:51
has become much more impactful on people's lives
29:56
than it was before that novel.
29:59
So now people are much more aware
30:01
of artificial intelligence and where we're headed
30:03
and just looking at technology and technological innovation
30:06
and rapidly expanding role of technology in our lives
30:09
over the last two decades, if you think about chat GPT
30:12
or artificial intelligence in general
30:15
and that rapid pace of technological innovation,
30:18
then I think some of these things that I talked about
30:21
in the book are gonna be here well before we think.
30:24
And when you're looking at the enemies use
30:27
of artificial intelligence or a quantum computing
30:29
or these things like passive targeting
30:30
and hypersonic missiles in their war plans,
30:33
then you in turn have to incorporate that into yours.
30:36
So getting inside your enemies decision making process,
30:39
making decisions that more rapidly than your enemy
30:42
is making those decisions, those are important.
30:45
And if so let's say in this case, China,
30:48
if China has this capability and it's similar to ours
30:52
and we don't have that, or if we didn't exploit
30:55
that capability and they do,
30:57
then all of a sudden missiles are landing before generals
31:00
and elected representatives in the executive branch
31:03
or even out of bed.
31:04
So that's really part of the basis for this.
31:07
And that's where those technologies
31:10
and global ambitions collide with James Reese
31:14
and the pages of Fred Scott morning.
31:16
- Hey guys, real quick.
31:17
If you're anything like me, you are constantly on the lookout
31:19
for high quality products that are actually made here
31:22
in America by American hands.
31:24
The problem is that a lot of American companies
31:26
have outsourced their labor overseas.
31:28
So it's an American company,
31:30
but it's supporting people that don't live here.
31:32
So I've always went to partner with an American company
31:34
that prioritizes America, American workers
31:37
and making all of their materials here in this country.
31:40
That's why I want to remind you
31:41
that we are partnered with Origin.
31:43
Origin is an apparel company based in Maine
31:46
and they are focused on getting as much manufacturing
31:48
back to the United States as they can possibly do.
31:51
What do they make?
31:52
They make the best Jiu Jitsu geese on the planet.
31:54
And these are the only Jiu Jitsu geese
31:56
that are made completely in America.
31:58
They also make jeans.
31:59
Yes, they're stretchy and awesome.
32:01
They also make amazing hunting gear.
32:02
And I know you guys love your kuyu and your sicka,
32:05
but those companies use overseas labor.
32:07
And they don't do that to help you guys out.
32:09
They do that to increase their profit margins.
32:12
Origin also makes boots and work boots.
32:14
And yes, that does include steel toe boots.
32:15
And in the fall of last year,
32:16
they launched a line of everyday clothing,
32:19
their Versa pants are their everyday pants.
32:20
They are just especially phenomenal.
32:22
They also make other outdoor clothes
32:24
and workout clothes and they're launching
32:25
new apparel stuff all the time.
32:27
If you haven't already, you need to check them out
32:29
and support a company that supports America
32:32
and America's workers.
32:34
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32:38
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32:41
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32:44
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32:47
Promo code undaunted to get 10% off of your order.
32:50
Well, certainly going to talk more about red sky morning
32:52
and I just want to reiterate something
32:54
I talked about in the introduction guys
32:55
after my normal outro after the metal music and all that,
32:58
we're going to do some major, major, major spoiler questions
33:01
regarding the entire series
33:03
and specifically red sky morning.
33:05
But I want to go a little bit deeper
33:06
on what you just talked about
33:07
because one of the dominant themes of red sky morning
33:09
is the expanding role of tech inside of warfare
33:13
and global conflict.
33:15
Now, there are some people that think of AI
33:17
as like, oh, you know, I can put a picture
33:20
into this AI software and it'll take the fuzzy out.
33:22
It'll go from pixelated to high def.
33:25
And that's all people think about.
33:26
And then there's other people that literally go to bed
33:28
worried about the sentience of AI
33:31
and AI starting to make decisions for itself
33:34
and it not just being something like a toaster
33:37
that we can just unplug from the wall and say,
33:39
well, that got a little weird
33:41
that we're not going to be able to do that,
33:42
it'll program itself to basically be able to be inside
33:47
of sentience.
33:48
But I don't, again, I don't want to be alarmist,
33:50
but it does, we see some embers of that now
33:55
and the technology is still so young
33:57
and well, at least the market side of it,
33:59
the part that's been marketed to the generalized public.
34:02
But where do you see this going
34:04
and how quickly do you think we'll get there?
34:07
Because there are people,
34:08
I heard Joe Rogan on a show the other day say,
34:10
this is the last presidential election
34:12
where we're not going to have an AI candidate.
34:14
Now, he's Joe Rogan, he could have been high
34:15
when he said it, there's no telling.
34:17
But like, where do you see this going
34:19
in terms of how AI is not just going to be a part
34:22
of our lives, but be the dominant part?
34:25
- Yeah, that's just the thing that's tough
34:28
because it's probably going to be much more prevalent
34:33
than it is today.
34:34
It's going to advance much more rapidly
34:36
than other emerging technologies.
34:38
When you think about things like biotechnology,
34:41
nanotechnology, you look at something like Elon Musk's
34:44
Neuralink, all of these things are moving forward
34:49
at a pace unheard of in human history.
34:53
So I can't predict the future, but I would say
34:57
that it is going to be much more prevalent
34:59
in all aspects of our life than we may be comfortable with now.
35:03
But the other side of that is, of course,
35:05
that people are being essentially groomed to accept it.
35:08
- Right, and we are very comfortable.
35:10
And I think it's back to you, really,
35:12
Normandy 80th anniversary D-Day events
35:16
and being very comfortable in this country,
35:18
not understanding what it is like to live under occupied,
35:22
essentially Nazi rule, and just to not have that connection
35:27
like they do in Northern France.
35:29
In this country, we are very comfortable
35:31
and we have been very comfortable for a long time.
35:34
And people don't even wrote the generation
35:37
that lived through the Depression is passing on
35:39
because the library, last of them, are gonna be gone soon.
35:42
They lived through a Depression, they fought World War II,
35:44
they came home, they started businesses,
35:46
they started families, and they built this country
35:48
into the greatest nation on earth.
35:50
And unfortunately, one of the second order effects
35:53
of that is a generation that has grown up, really,
35:57
without those tests, without having to overcome those things
36:02
that their grandparents and great-grandparents did,
36:06
which has led to a level of complacency.
36:09
And not even appreciating what was done for them,
36:13
what was sacrificed for them, what was sacrificed for them
36:16
from the inception of this country,
36:18
really up until today.
36:20
And then you have a distrust in, of course, leadership,
36:24
and we see a play out with a withdrawal from Afghanistan.
36:27
And you see the best that senior-level military leaders
36:30
could do, that had 20 years to prepare for that.
36:33
And then as a parent or, let's say, as a high school kid
36:37
that it was intent on joining the military,
36:39
you watch that and think, oh, man,
36:40
well, I'm still gonna serve, or maybe, hey,
36:42
I'm not gonna serve anymore.
36:43
Look at, that's the best these guys could do
36:45
after 20 years of what kind of operation
36:47
are they running over there.
36:48
All you need to do is apply common sense and logic
36:50
to the problem set.
36:51
You don't even need a background in military history
36:53
and strategy or tactics.
36:55
You don't even need to see a military documentary or movie.
36:57
All you need to do is apply logic and common sense
37:00
to the problem set.
37:01
And you would have done a much better job
37:02
than our senior-level leaders did
37:03
with the withdrawal from Afghanistan.
37:05
So you have a distrust in institutions like the military
37:09
that typically have had a high level of trust.
37:12
And of course, then you got politicians,
37:14
and I mentioned this in the book,
37:15
beating the stock market by a significant margin.
37:19
Some outliers beat it by like,
37:21
much way outliers and then you get people
37:24
that just, you know, exactly.
37:27
And you have some, they just beat it by five, 10,
37:29
or whatever it is, but they all do is the point.
37:33
So it's tough.
37:34
It's extremely difficult to think about the future
37:39
when you have a distrust in government,
37:41
distrust in the military.
37:44
And you have these corporations that are acting more
37:46
like governments and governments
37:47
that are acting more like corporations, essentially.
37:49
So that's what you're dealing with.
37:50
And that's what the next generation is going to be dealing
37:52
with in AI.
37:53
Quantum computing is going to be a very large part of that.
37:56
And what does that look like when it comes to things
37:58
like freedom?
37:59
I don't know.
38:01
I don't know.
38:02
- Well, so let's actually, let's go into that freedom piece.
38:04
And I want to get back to the GWAT as well.
38:05
But what AI is doing, Jack,
38:08
and what the companies that are propagating this technology
38:11
are doing is they're removing the opt-in option.
38:14
So you could have opted into whether or not
38:16
you're going to use Instagram,
38:17
opt into whether or not you're going to use TikTok.
38:19
But Apple just got through announcing
38:21
with their version 18 of their iOS,
38:26
that chat GPT is going to be part of the operating system.
38:30
So not Apple's version of chat GPT, chat GPT.
38:33
So if you were trying to avoid the robot, right?
38:36
Well, it's either have a dumb phone.
38:39
You know, it's not really a dumb phone,
38:40
but like have a droid, right?
38:42
You get used to the green text bubbles.
38:44
Or if you're going to continue to be in the Apple universe,
38:47
you just have to deal with a partner.
38:49
Chat GPT will be on your device.
38:50
It will be scanning all of your pictures,
38:53
all of your text messages, all of your phone calls,
38:55
all of your eye movements.
38:57
And if you want to keep the iPhone,
38:58
you have to keep that, you know, capability.
39:01
And so we're not getting the chance to opt in or opt out,
39:05
unless we decide we're just going to live completely
39:07
off the grid.
39:07
And I guess that's still certainly an option at this point.
39:10
But you got to make sure you don't have a laptop.
39:12
That can be tracked.
39:13
You got to make sure you have a vehicle
39:14
that can't be tracked and, you know,
39:16
things that you've talked about in the novels
39:17
and talked about elsewhere as well.
39:20
But one thing that was interesting
39:22
from the epilogue of Red Sky morning,
39:23
you were talking about different novels
39:25
kind of being time capsules for like,
39:27
okay, here's, you know, the novels that were written
39:29
during this period of time and this period of time
39:32
and what things are going to look like, you know,
39:33
the novels written during the GWOP period.
39:35
But I'm going to go all the way back.
39:36
Let's take all the stuff that you were talking about
39:39
with the pull out from Afghanistan,
39:40
which we've talked about in some of our previous conversations.
39:43
Kids, you know, those farm, you know,
39:46
farm boys from Indiana aren't wanting to go
39:48
into the military anymore because they don't want
39:50
to represent a military that celebrates Pride Month
39:53
more than it celebrates its potential lethality
39:56
in a conflict, right?
39:57
Seemingly.
39:58
If you could go all the way back to before you showed up
40:03
in San Diego or San Diego area for buds,
40:06
would you still knowing what you know now,
40:08
would you still have served in the way that you did?
40:11
And the reason why I asked that, Jack,
40:12
is I don't mean to be offensive
40:13
'cause some people get offended at that.
40:15
But there are a lot of guys that served maybe just four years,
40:19
maybe a full 20 or maybe even beyond that,
40:22
that are now looking internally and being like,
40:24
was my sacrifice worthwhile because of where we ended up
40:28
in the pull out of Afghanistan?
40:29
Was my sacrifice worthwhile?
40:31
Because now we seem more intent on funding foreign wars
40:34
as opposed to making sure when we have to fight one
40:36
that we're gonna win, some would say we haven't won a war
40:39
since World War II either 'cause we don't have
40:41
the stomach for it anymore.
40:42
So take that wherever you want to go with it.
40:44
- Yeah, well, interesting that the Department of War
40:48
and the Secretary of War changed to the Department of Defense
40:51
in 1947, the reorganization of our defense
40:54
and intelligence agencies.
40:56
And then with that came essentially the disappearance
41:01
for all practical purposes of accountability.
41:04
So up to and through World War II,
41:07
general senior level leaders were held accountable
41:11
for their failures.
41:12
And George Marshall was a big part of that
41:13
in the lead up all the way through World War II.
41:15
We didn't start out with a lot of those names
41:17
that we all know today as leading us to World War II,
41:19
all those generals that they make movies about
41:21
from Patton to MacArthur, all those guys.
41:24
There were other people out there that fell by the wayside
41:27
because they were given a chance,
41:28
they didn't measure up and they were replaced.
41:30
And same thing in the Civil War.
41:32
It's a good, President Lincoln went through
41:34
a lot of generals before he found a grant.
41:36
And after 1947, we see a different military.
41:41
And we see this industry and we see this perpetual war.
41:47
And we see people, senior level leaders,
41:49
not being held accountable for their mistakes,
41:53
for their failures.
41:54
We see it become a career, not a profession.
41:57
And we see them then transition into this new industry
42:00
of defense, this defense establishment.
42:03
So we see this machine that has only continued to grow
42:07
and become more powerful in the years since 1947.
42:10
So it's, I understand completely people would question
42:14
what they did, it was my sacrifice worth it or was
42:17
the sacrifice of my friend worth it.
42:18
It didn't make it home, those sorts of questions.
42:21
And everyone can deal with these things in their own way.
42:25
I don't think there's a right or a wrong way
42:27
to deal with it, it's different for everyone.
42:30
But looking at it in those terms,
42:34
I don't know if it is the most healthy
42:36
because you might come to the answer that it wasn't.
42:39
And that's maybe a lot of very logical conclusion.
42:44
But I don't think looking at it in those terms
42:46
is necessarily healthy.
42:48
You were down there, you were doing the best you could
42:50
with what you had at the time for your brothers
42:52
and arms to your right and your left.
42:54
And that's it.
42:55
And if you did that and you didn't leave anything
42:57
on the field and you prepared as much as you possibly could
43:00
to make good decisions under fire,
43:02
then there is absolutely nothing that you need to regret.
43:07
You stood up to serve, your country is because senior level
43:10
leaders made strategic level blunders.
43:12
That is not on you.
43:13
And it's not on the person to your right or left
43:15
or that person who didn't come home.
43:17
So it's tough to think through.
43:22
It's tough to think about stuff for the rest of your life.
43:25
You can dwell on it or you can use it going forward.
43:29
And you can pass on these lessons to future generations
43:31
through your circle, however, whether it's one person,
43:34
two person, 40 million people, whatever that is.
43:37
You can make sure that you're doing what you can now
43:40
to make sure that your kids understand
43:42
and that your kids take these lessons going forward,
43:45
turn them into wisdom.
43:46
We don't do that as a country.
43:47
We typically make the same mistakes over and over and over again.
43:51
We don't turn lessons into wisdom going forward.
43:54
So that's something I try to do with,
43:57
whether it's a social post about history
43:59
or it's history that's woven into the novels
44:01
or my first nonfiction book comes out this September
44:03
on the 1983 Marine Baby Barracks bombing.
44:06
So I feel like that's doing what I can
44:10
to preserve some of these lessons
44:12
that we don't have to learn them again in blood.
44:14
But once again, we have not proven
44:16
that we are very good at doing that.
44:19
- One later this year,
44:19
we'll certainly have you back on to talk about
44:22
your foray into the nonfiction world.
44:24
But just real quick, in the week or two
44:27
after the pull out from Afghanistan,
44:29
I had a bunch of people come on and do many episodes
44:32
on the show and these were seals that serve,
44:35
gold star widows, you know, take Kyle,
44:37
Chris Kyle's wife came on here
44:39
just kind of give their thoughts
44:40
and give their message to veterans.
44:42
And we couldn't work out the schedule with you
44:44
to get you on during that two week period.
44:46
But I feel like you gave me your answer
44:47
that I would have asked you to the same question,
44:50
you know, years ago.
44:52
And it's, hey, like, this isn't a you problem.
44:55
This isn't a problem with the person
44:56
that was to your left or to your right
44:57
or to your buddy that didn't come home
44:58
or perhaps even to the buddy that you held
45:01
whenever they took their last breath.
45:03
Like, this is not a you issue.
45:04
This is a them issue.
45:05
You still did the work and you went where most of us
45:09
are unwilling to go that didn't raise our right hand
45:11
and say, I'm gonna protect this family or this family.
45:14
It is of like a family,
45:15
but this country from enemies foreign and domestic.
45:17
And you went over there and you pushed back darkness
45:19
on our behalf so that we could be here
45:22
and do whatever we wanna do.
45:24
And so that's what you did, Jack.
45:25
That's what other guys that went downrange did.
45:27
And even to the people that maybe never left,
45:29
went outside the wire.
45:30
But just what they did on base helped to equip those guys
45:34
that were going out, those devil dogs
45:36
that were going out and taking care of business
45:38
outside the wire.
45:39
So I really appreciate you and give me
45:41
some more context on that.
45:42
But in terms of the interview interview,
45:45
that's it for me for right now.
45:46
I'm anxious to get to the spoiler side of this,
45:49
but is there anything else that you want
45:51
the generalized audience to know,
45:53
the audience that has not read Red Sky Morning yet?
45:56
Is there anything that you wanna leave with them?
45:58
Parting thoughts.
45:59
- Well, I just wanted a little more context
46:02
to what we just talked about.
46:03
I did do two blogs in the blog section on my website.
46:06
I called OneFireTheGenerals.
46:08
And that's on the blog section on my website
46:11
from August, September timeframe of 2021.
46:14
So they can go back and check those out
46:16
if anybody wants a little more context.
46:19
I skimmed through them again recently
46:21
as I redid the website and those feelings
46:24
and assessments still hold.
46:28
- Well guys, we do have a link to his website there
46:31
in the show notes so you can check that out.
46:32
But anything else before we go to the end?
46:34
Anything else?
46:35
- Oh man, thank you for routing me on.
46:38
I'm fired up to get out there on book tours.
46:41
They had everybody.
46:41
I try to thank as many people as I possibly can
46:43
on the social channels.
46:44
That's what I like best about social media
46:46
is being able to thank that person that reaches out
46:48
and says that, hey, they like the book,
46:49
they like to show or they give to their dad
46:51
for Father's Day or something like that.
46:53
And they got to read this book kind of together
46:54
and discuss it.
46:55
So I love just being able to say thank you.
46:57
That's something that social media allows me to do.
47:00
And then a book tour, I get to look people
47:01
in the eye, shake their hand and thank them in person.
47:03
So I'm excited to see everybody out there on the road.
47:06
- Very good.
47:07
Well guys, you can check out his dates there
47:09
on his website as well.
47:11
But Jack, hang tight and we'll get to the spoiler section.
47:14
There you go guys.
47:14
I hope you enjoyed my time with Jack Carr
47:16
but before we let you go in,
47:17
before we get to the special spoiler edition questions
47:20
about red sky morning,
47:22
I do wanna do a quick resilience boost.
47:24
Adam Daunton life, our mission is equipping men
47:25
to push back darkness with content that forges,
47:27
spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
47:29
So here are the links I've got for you today.
47:31
I've got a links to Jack website, Jack's website.
47:33
So you can check out all the stuff
47:34
that he's gonna be doing on tour,
47:36
the blogs he talked about during the interview.
47:38
Also, I've got a link to where you can pick up
47:39
your copy of red sky morning.
47:41
And I've got links to all the other appearances he's had
47:44
on Daunton life of man's podcast.
47:45
So again, without further ado, very, very last warning.
47:48
Let's get to the spoiler segment about red sky morning.
47:50
Thank you for listening to this podcast.
47:52
Wherever you're listening to this,
47:53
please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five star review.
47:56
If you want me to come speak live at your event
47:57
or on your podcast, just shoot me an email to info@undaunton.life.
48:01
That's I-N-F-O @undaunton.life.
48:04
Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook
48:06
and check out our website for everything else,
48:07
including how to donate to keep more content
48:09
like this coming your way.
48:10
Just go to www.undaunton.life.
48:12
And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name
48:14
for allowing us to use their music for our content.
48:16
The music on this podcast is their song Perpetua,
48:19
which is off their self-titled debut album
48:21
on Face Down Records.
48:22
The links are in the description.
48:23
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
48:25
Remember, keep pushing back darkness,
48:28
keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience,
48:32
keep seeking the lion of Judah.
48:35
(upbeat music)
48:37
- All right, Jack, by the magic of modern technology,
48:53
you are back and we are here after the outro music.
48:57
Let's dig into some spoilers.
48:59
And again, guys, you've heard it a hundred times now.
49:01
There are spoilers ahead.
49:04
So if you have not read or listened to Red Sky Morning yet,
49:07
do not pass go, you will not get $200,
49:09
you certainly will not get a fruit cup.
49:11
So get out of here, go move on to the next podcast.
49:13
So here we go, three, two, one.
49:16
All right, Katie, this is James' love interest.
49:20
This is his fiance.
49:21
This is his future in a lot of ways.
49:24
Jack, this is his redemption in a lot of ways.
49:26
She is shot.
49:28
And it's a very dramatic scene in the book
49:30
that she shot her recovery,
49:32
the way James responds and all that.
49:35
But after she's shot, James Reese has a vision
49:40
of his deceased wife and daughter Lauren and Lucy.
49:44
And gosh, Jack, I remember it being very emotional
49:46
'cause I'm listening to the Ray Porter version.
49:48
I'm listening to Ray Porter read the book.
49:50
And I just remember being overwhelmed with emotion
49:54
at the scene 'cause I've spent seven thrillers now
49:57
getting to know James Reese and his psyche.
49:59
And a few novels ago,
50:03
you started really getting into his inner thoughts
50:05
a little bit more in his inner dialogue.
50:09
Where did you get the idea for Katie being shot
50:13
and then immediately Reese gets a vision of Lauren and Lucy?
50:16
Where did that idea come from?
50:19
- Yes, I started each novel with a one page executive summary
50:22
where I kind of lay out,
50:24
looks like a letter to myself, essentially,
50:26
but also it's similar to what you would read
50:28
in the back of a paperback or the inside flapjacket
50:31
of a book and ask myself,
50:33
"Hey, is this worth the next year,
50:35
"a year and a half of my life, this idea?"
50:37
And if it's yes, I read it again and I say,
50:38
"If someone else were to read this,
50:39
"is they walked by Hudson News and pulled this off the shelf
50:42
"in an airport, would it be interesting enough
50:45
"for them to devote time to that they're never gonna get back
50:47
"or in the best time and then ever gonna get back?"
50:49
The answer is yes or probably and that's my project.
50:53
So I take that, turn it into an outline,
50:54
I have a title, so I'm not worried about wasting bandwidth,
50:57
worried about the title,
50:59
and then I turn that outline into the narrative.
51:01
So in the outline, I don't have those visions.
51:06
I have Katie getting shot,
51:08
I have the sequence of events,
51:11
but as I'm writing, then it just naturally happened.
51:15
It wasn't something that I thought would or wouldn't happen,
51:18
it just wasn't on my radar and a lot of what I write
51:22
isn't in the outline, that's a guide
51:25
and I know things are gonna change in this case
51:27
or something I thought was gonna,
51:28
100% was gonna happen and I got to that stage,
51:30
nope, didn't happen, it didn't work.
51:35
I mean, it wouldn't have worked, but it didn't,
51:36
it wasn't right, I guess is the way to put it.
51:39
So I'm not bound by that outline,
51:41
but I got to that stage and it just happened.
51:44
So that was a very natural thing to write in
51:47
as I'm going through that sequence.
51:49
So just natural.
51:52
- Okay, interesting.
51:53
So one thing that I guess I learned about myself,
51:57
'cause again, as I've told you before,
51:59
I don't really consume fiction.
52:00
Sometimes it's hard for me to follow the characters
52:03
and if it's like a Stephen King novel,
52:04
it's like, oh my gosh,
52:05
there's a 74th main character.
52:07
What is this person's backstory?
52:08
I don't get it.
52:09
And we all just know the whole world
52:11
is gonna blow up at the end.
52:12
So it's kind of hard to give 600 pages of attention to that.
52:15
I have no problems with that,
52:16
with your thrillers that you've written in this series so far.
52:20
But there's very few times where there's like a,
52:23
there's a scene or a line even that's sticky,
52:27
but with this novel with Red Sky Morning, there is one.
52:29
And it's subtle.
52:30
And I don't know if many people are gonna pick up on it.
52:32
So I'm curious for the guys listening to this right now
52:34
that have gone through Red Sky Morning,
52:35
if they picked up on it the way that I did.
52:38
So this is towards the very end of the book.
52:40
This is where Alice, you know, the quantum computer,
52:42
you know, personified as this female character
52:45
was trying to help Reese escape an island
52:48
that was about to be destroyed by missiles, you know,
52:51
short timeline, chaotic.
52:53
And during this, Reese has another vision
52:56
and he actually has an interaction with Lauren and Lucy.
52:59
And in this interaction, they give him permission to live,
53:02
you know, to live with Katie.
53:04
Lauren says that she forgives him
53:06
and basically demands that, you know, Reese forgive himself
53:10
for what happened to her and the, and his daughter.
53:14
And there's a quote, you know, this is his deceased wife
53:16
talking to him, it's part of God's plan.
53:19
Forgive yourself, trust me, trust us.
53:23
But then Reese has snapped out of his vision
53:26
by the voice of Alice and Reese still thinks Lauren's talking.
53:31
He still thinks it's Lauren's voice.
53:33
And there's this one line from the book.
53:35
It says, "The voice was now almost identical to Lauren's."
53:40
And I remember getting like chills
53:42
when Ray Porter said that line.
53:44
And I think I was like mowing the lawn
53:45
or driving to someone like, "Wait a minute, wait a minute.
53:47
Rewind, rewind, rewind."
53:48
And I was like, ah, like so in a way, Alice,
53:51
and I'm not trying to, you know,
53:53
put too much into the story.
53:54
If it's not there, tell me I'm, you know,
53:55
being way too poetic and romantic about it.
53:58
But it's almost like Alice was almost a guiding principle
54:02
for him, a guiding voice, you know, in the Christian world,
54:05
perhaps it's the Holy Spirit nudging him
54:08
in a particular way.
54:10
But to have it be basically the voice of Lauren,
54:14
that to me was not insignificant.
54:17
So tell me if I've got it wrong
54:18
or tell me if I'm on to something here, Jack.
54:21
- You might be on to something,
54:22
but it's all of the reader, everybody's gonna get,
54:26
that's what's great about a book or a film,
54:28
is that people bring their own personal experience to it.
54:32
They bring other books that they've read to it,
54:35
films, family, dynamics, all of that plays into it.
54:40
So essentially that part that you read
54:42
might read differently to somebody else,
54:44
and you have essentially two semi-different stories.
54:49
So I'll leave that one up to the reader or listener.
54:53
- Okay, well, very good on that.
54:55
Now let's go to the very, very end.
54:57
And so we can talk about the ending
54:59
as much or as little as you want to,
55:01
but they're having-- - Even those spoilers.
55:03
Even though there's spoilers.
55:05
- Yeah. - Yeah.
55:06
Let's see, let's see.
55:08
Let's see, well, what do you have, what do you have?
55:10
- So all I'm gonna say is there have been cliffhangers
55:14
in this series.
55:15
There have been significant cliffhangers,
55:17
so significant that people were mad at you
55:19
for a calendar year for doing that to them.
55:22
But on this one, it doesn't feel that way.
55:26
It doesn't feel like there's a cliffhanger.
55:27
It feels like the loose ends have kind of been tied up.
55:31
Some might even say that they feel like
55:35
they've gotten some sort of closure
55:38
with where James Reese is in his life.
55:40
I'll put it that way.
55:41
That's about as generically as I can put it.
55:44
You tell me, and let's get a little bit,
55:46
you don't have to get,
55:47
you can get as specific as you want to.
55:48
Again, guys, you gotta go out and buy it
55:50
and read it or listen to it for yourself.
55:52
But tell me about the decision to end this thriller
55:56
in the way that you did.
55:57
- Let's see, once again, it was natural.
56:04
I had the ending in mind.
56:05
All the endings, I'd like to know where I'm going.
56:09
So I have the endings in mind when I start.
56:11
The endings are part of the outline.
56:14
The beginnings are part of the outline.
56:15
The prologue's a part of the outline.
56:17
Certain significant events that happen
56:19
in each of the three parts.
56:20
And in this case, three parts of the books have had more.
56:23
But significant events in their are part of the outline.
56:27
But the way I end this is, I knew it at the beginning.
56:31
I knew it at the start.
56:32
So people can go back if they read it twice
56:36
or listen to it twice,
56:37
and they might pick up a little more few other hints
56:40
that lead them down this path
56:42
to how it couldn't end any other way.
56:45
So yeah, I think we'll leave it at that.
56:49
And don't, I would say people stay off social media
56:52
the first week this book comes out
56:55
if you don't want any spoilers.
56:56
Just stay off until you're done listening or reading the book.
57:00
- Very good.
57:01
Well, I will say several days after I finished it,
57:06
I did go back to these last few chapters to be like,
57:09
did I miss something?
57:10
Is something else here?
57:12
Like, 'cause again, I'm like,
57:13
I know how I am with fiction.
57:15
Sometimes it's a struggle for me
57:16
'cause nonfiction is just basically the world
57:18
that I'm marinating in all the time.
57:20
And so I'll say for me personally,
57:22
I picked some different things up on the ending
57:25
than I did the first time, which is natural.
57:27
You watch a movie for a second time,
57:28
you listen to a song for the second time,
57:29
you're gonna pick up different nuances and different things.
57:31
But an absolutely fantastic novel.
57:34
It shouldn't be a shock to anybody.
57:35
That's a read or listen to this series
57:37
for any length of time.
57:39
But that is officially all for me this time around.
57:42
Jack, is there anything else you wanna get off your chest?
57:45
- Oh man, no, I appreciate you taking the time.
57:46
And yeah, thank you so much for listening to the book.
57:50
And Ray Porter just crushes it every time.
57:52
He's such a good guy in real life as well.
57:54
So he's a dear friend now.
57:56
So really appreciate the support, thank you.
57:59
- Very good, very good.
58:00
Well, we'll see you again later on this year
58:01
to talk about your first nonfiction book.
58:04
So Jack, be well, my friend.
58:06
- You too, take care.