0:00
(upbeat music)
0:02
- This is Undaunted Life of Man's Podcast.
0:21
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
0:22
Let's get into it.
0:23
All right guys, today we got a special return guest
0:25
to the podcast.
0:26
His name is Jack Carr.
0:27
So Jack is a retired Navy SEAL.
0:29
He spent 20 years in naval special warfare.
0:31
He transitioned from an enlisted SEAL sniper
0:33
to a junior officer leading assault and sniper teams
0:36
in Iraq and Afghanistan to platoon commander,
0:38
practicing counterinsurgency in the Southern Philippines
0:41
to commanding a special operations task unit
0:43
in the most Iranian influence section of Southern Iraq
0:46
throughout the tumultuous drawdown of US forces.
0:48
So this guy has seen everything you could possibly see
0:50
overseas, but then after he got out of the military,
0:53
he became a number one New York Times best selling
0:56
fiction thriller writer.
0:58
And it's just been an absolute incredible thing
1:00
to see how he's grown from the time
1:02
of the very first novel all the way to today
1:04
with the fifth release.
1:05
But he is the writer of the thriller series
1:07
with James Reese as the central character.
1:10
So those books would include books
1:12
that you've heard of, The Terminal List, True Believer,
1:14
Savage Sun, The Devil's Hand, and his newest book
1:16
that is out now if you're listening to this on time.
1:18
This is the fifth novel in the series.
1:20
It's called In the Blood.
1:22
And guys, we're so excited to have him on this podcast
1:24
because he goes on podcasts and he's such a nice guy.
1:27
He answers any question and we talk about the book
1:30
and we talk about the upcoming series
1:32
with Chris Pratt that's gonna be on Amazon Prime Video.
1:34
It's called The Terminal List.
1:36
It's an eight episode series
1:38
and it's gonna be an awesome thing.
1:40
We get into all that stuff.
1:41
So if you like Jack Card novels,
1:43
if you like the stuff that he's spinning off
1:45
and doing for television, you're gonna love this interview.
1:47
But beyond that, I told him off air
1:50
and he was totally cool with it and he was excited about it.
1:52
I was like, dude, I wanna talk to you
1:53
about a bunch of stuff that doesn't have to do
1:54
with your writing as well.
1:55
So we get into his thoughts on the drawdown
1:57
of troops from Afghanistan and the pullout from Afghanistan
2:00
because I wanted to talk about that with him last summer,
2:02
but we just couldn't really work out the schedule.
2:04
So we got to talk about that.
2:05
We got to talk about Ukraine.
2:06
We got to talk about just understanding history in general
2:09
and why a lot of men don't read
2:10
and we don't read history and then we're shocked
2:12
when certain things happen.
2:13
And then we get into his podcast.
2:14
We get into some things about how a lot of our politicians
2:17
are trying to take away our rights to defend ourselves
2:19
while at the same time being defended 24/7.
2:22
And then we do a really, really fun,
2:23
what would you say to someone that said
2:25
they're at the end of the podcast?
2:26
And we even expanded on some of the lightning round questions
2:29
and got a few bonus ones in there at the end.
2:31
But guys, I absolutely enjoyed my time with Jack Carr.
2:33
I hope you do as well.
2:34
And I'm not gonna keep him from you any longer.
2:35
So without further ado, let's get into it.
2:38
Jack Carr, welcome back to Undaunted Life of Man's podcast.
2:41
- Thank you so much for having me.
2:43
It's good to see ya.
2:44
- Hey, I was just telling you, Offair,
2:45
you always have a different background
2:47
and it's cooler than the one beforehand.
2:48
So where are we at right now?
2:49
Are you in your lair?
2:50
- Yeah, so I'm in the house and this room
2:53
is eventually gonna turn into the library
2:55
because the books they've been stacking up
2:57
for about the last 40 years
2:59
and I need a place to organize them a little more efficiently.
3:03
So the podcast studio is gonna move outside
3:05
to its own dedicated space
3:07
and then this will turn into the library.
3:09
So this is a temporary podcast studio for mine.
3:12
So there's the mic right there.
3:14
Got all my equipment over here,
3:16
lights and cameras and all that sort of thing.
3:18
But all that's gonna go outside
3:19
and get upgraded to doing the new studios done here.
3:22
Hopefully soon.
3:23
- That's awesome and it's so funny
3:24
because I've always been a digital book guy,
3:26
but now, especially from publishers,
3:28
I'm getting a lot of books sent to me.
3:29
So I'm like, holy crap, I have this problem
3:31
that Jack Carr has now and Steven Pressfield has now.
3:34
It's like, where do I put all of these books?
3:35
But we're gonna launch in today
3:37
because we gotta talk about your new book.
3:38
We gotta talk about the Amazon series.
3:40
We're gonna get into all that.
3:41
But there are several things that are happening
3:43
kind of on the world front
3:44
or have happened on the world front
3:45
that I've wanted to talk to you about
3:46
that I figured we'd wait until we got you on air.
3:49
Around the time that Afghanistan was falling last summer,
3:52
I had a bunch of people that had been on the show before
3:54
come back on to do little mini episodes,
3:56
10, 15 minute episodes just to give their overall thoughts.
3:59
A lot of these people were veterans.
4:00
There were some gold star wives.
4:02
There were some people that had served over there
4:04
and kind of a, I had a journalist over there
4:06
that had actually served and she was over there
4:09
whenever it was falling.
4:10
We'll put it that way.
4:11
So Holly McKay, she was there in the towns
4:13
when Afghanistan was falling to the Taliban
4:15
when they were riding through the streets
4:16
on motorcycles shooting their AKs in the air.
4:18
And so a lot of people gave their opinions.
4:20
We weren't able to get you on during that time period
4:21
because it was absolutely crazy for you.
4:23
You're on deadline for the new book.
4:25
But I just want to kind of give you some space here
4:27
because you've now had close to a year
4:29
to reflect on how the United States government
4:32
and military pulled out of that area.
4:33
The vacuum of power it created that was filled
4:35
by the Taliban and by China and by some other forces.
4:38
So just give me whatever thoughts that you want to share
4:41
with us on the situation that happened with us
4:43
pulling out of Afghanistan.
4:45
- Yeah, they're very similar if not exactly the same
4:47
as they were in the lead up and during the withdrawal.
4:51
And I captured those in a couple of op-eds at the time.
4:55
And you know, when you ride an op-ed at the time,
4:57
something is happening, yes, yes, it's timely.
5:00
But at the same time, there's a lot of motion in there.
5:02
But that emotion hasn't changed over the last few months.
5:05
It's not like I took a breath and I mean,
5:08
I have taken many, but it's not like I took a breath
5:10
at that situation and shifted how I felt about it.
5:13
Having watched it devolve and see us rush to our death
5:17
at the end is actually quite literally for 13 Americans
5:20
and not even including the ones that are missing arms
5:22
and legs and can't walk anymore
5:24
because we gave up Bagram and went down to Kabul
5:28
to leave from that airfield
5:30
and give up a strategically advantageous position
5:34
to go to a, well, a tactically advantageous position
5:37
to go to a tactically disadvantageous position
5:40
in both troops then in harm's way.
5:42
I just can't, I just, and why so many people
5:45
had a problem with that is because you don't need
5:47
to be a student in military history.
5:48
You don't need to have ever served in the military.
5:50
You don't need to be a strategist.
5:52
You don't need to have any touch points
5:54
with the military at all to just look
5:56
at what was happening and say, hey,
5:58
why do we put our troops down there
5:59
when we had this bathe with bathe with standoff distance
6:02
all around it that we owned at Bagram?
6:06
And it goes back to what Karl McClosh was called
6:11
the most important attribute of a battlefield leader
6:15
which is common sense.
6:18
So anybody could look at what was going on
6:20
and apply some common sense to it
6:21
and realize, hey, things should have been done differently.
6:24
And they were saying this in the time,
6:25
it's not like you have the benefit of hindsight
6:28
to go back and say, oh, you know what?
6:30
We really should have done this.
6:31
It was so obvious at the time,
6:33
which is why so many people were so upset about it,
6:36
particularly veterans.
6:38
But it's just so painful to see.
6:42
Unforced errors, 20 years spent.
6:44
We have 20 years to prepare for that moment essentially.
6:47
And then this is the best that our senior leaders can do.
6:49
Senior leaders who continued to fail up time and time again
6:53
over that 20 year period.
6:54
You can go back and look at any other testimony
6:57
before Congress and take off the date.
6:59
And they all say pretty much the same thing.
7:02
We're making strides.
7:03
All we need is some more money,
7:05
some more resources, some more troops
7:07
or shift our focus from drugs to the ring road
7:11
to whatever to counterinsurgency to this to that.
7:14
And they all just needed more troops,
7:16
more time, more resources.
7:18
We were doing, we were making great strides
7:20
with host nation forces, training them up.
7:23
They all sound exactly the same.
7:24
And what's interesting is that you can juxtapose that now
7:27
with interviews, those same people gave coming back
7:30
from Afghanistan over the years that are now published
7:33
in the Afghanistan papers.
7:34
And they are 180 out from one another,
7:36
what they really thought and what they said.
7:38
So essentially they lied to the American people,
7:39
they lied to Congress, they lied to their troops.
7:41
And those same people have never been held accountable.
7:45
At the tactical level, anybody who's served in the military
7:47
knows if we screw up on target,
7:48
you're gonna be held accountable.
7:49
You're gonna get shipped home or you get court marshaled.
7:52
Those same people that failed time and time again,
7:55
no accountability at those senior levels
7:58
that continue to fail up today.
8:00
- I guess it's shocking that it's not shocking.
8:02
And the thing is I try to apply Occam's razor to where
8:05
it's like the simplest explanation is probably
8:06
the most likely, but there is a lot of common sense
8:09
that could have been had here.
8:10
It didn't make sense even to the common man
8:11
that we would do that.
8:12
But I guess, and I just asked Chad Robishow here
8:16
this recently, the same question,
8:17
but it's like if you had to kind of put yourself
8:19
in that brain space of like,
8:21
this is what I actually think happened.
8:22
Get rid of whether or not it's categorically
8:24
a conspiracy theory or something like that.
8:27
Is there something nefarious going on
8:28
that with the Biden administration clearing the way
8:31
so that China could come in and get some mineral rights?
8:34
Is it the fact that 20 years of contractors
8:36
making money off of this war and other wars around the globe
8:39
and they're setting us up for another big war later
8:42
where they can make another payday?
8:43
Like, I think Dakota Meyer floated that
8:45
on the Joe Rogan experience, something similar to that.
8:47
I mean, why did this actually happen?
8:49
Because don't attribute to malice
8:50
what can be contributed to ignorance,
8:52
but my goodness, Jack, help me.
8:54
- Yeah, so I think that we may be giving those
9:00
in leadership positions,
9:01
although they're elected to represent us.
9:04
They're not really our leaders.
9:05
We elect them to represent our interests.
9:07
A little too much credit.
9:09
I think if you're to look at it, incompetence rules the day
9:13
and has for a very long time.
9:15
So you add that incompetence with one of the things
9:18
you said there about contractors and you look at
9:21
who is in what position and what think tank
9:23
and then where do they go in government after that
9:26
or lobbying firm after that?
9:27
And you have this kind of this circle
9:30
who are revolving door people that can then leave politics
9:34
or leave these think tanks or leave these lobbying firms
9:36
and end up on board or leave the military end up on boards.
9:39
And that's sort of a thing.
9:40
I mean, the military industrial complex is a real thing
9:42
and it does factor in.
9:44
But when you talk about rushing to our death
9:45
in Afghanistan, I think it can most likely be contributed
9:49
to extreme incompetence at our most senior levels,
9:53
which is almost more disheartening
9:55
than if there was something even more nefarious behind it.
9:58
- When you need to build up your team
10:01
to handle the growing chaos at work,
10:03
use indeed sponsor jobs.
10:05
It gives your job posts the boost it needs to be seen
10:08
and helps reach people with the right skills,
10:10
certifications and more.
10:11
Spend less time searching
10:12
and more time actually interviewing candidates
10:15
who check all your boxes.
10:16
Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsor job credit
10:19
at indeed.com/podcast.
10:21
That's indeed.com/podcast terms and conditions apply.
10:25
Need a hiring hero?
10:26
This is a job for indeed sponsor jobs.
10:29
- It is very disheartening because I feel like you're right.
10:32
I feel like if we were to take away some of the Hollywood
10:34
and some of the ideas that come into our brain
10:35
that that makes a lot of sense,
10:36
but it's those same individuals
10:38
and that same administration
10:40
that's trying to deal with this situation
10:41
that's happening in Ukraine.
10:42
And so there is a powder keg situation
10:44
going over there right now again.
10:46
As I've said a lot of times on the show,
10:48
I've watched and listened to and read a whole lot
10:52
about the situation in Ukraine and Russian.
10:54
I still don't feel like I have a good grasp
10:56
as to the history as to why we got to the position
10:58
we're in now and why it's even happening.
11:00
But I did find it interesting that all the talking heads
11:02
and all the really, really smart people in Washington
11:05
thought that this would never happen.
11:06
Oh, it's just against Russian interests
11:08
and oh, this would never happen because of this
11:09
or their reason or that reason.
11:11
And then reality, smack them in the face
11:12
and they're still reeling
11:14
from the fact that this is going on.
11:15
So just like I kind of gave you some space on Afghanistan,
11:18
give me your thoughts on the situation with Russian
11:20
in Ukraine, which is obviously an ongoing situation.
11:23
- Well, those same incompetent people
11:26
that see your levels are the same ones dealing with this.
11:28
- Right.
11:29
So my second book, True Believer, was about Ukraine,
11:32
about a Russian invasion of Ukraine,
11:34
about an attempted false flag operation
11:38
to draw Russia into Ukraine
11:41
and then get another leader in place.
11:42
So it was part of the plot back in 2019
11:46
when that one came out.
11:47
So I did a lot of studying about Ukraine and Russia back then.
11:50
And in that study, in that research for that novel,
11:54
it was quite apparent that at some point
11:56
in the not too distant future,
11:58
Russia was going to have to invade Ukraine
12:01
because of the ethnic Russian population there
12:03
and because of the Russian population
12:05
that is in such steep decline within modern day Russia.
12:09
And other people have looked at that.
12:11
I studied Peter Zihan on his book,
12:14
The Accidental Superpower,
12:15
as part of the research for that novel.
12:17
And that's what really started.
12:19
That's what really gave me the sparked the conspiracy
12:22
for True Believer, was reading his work.
12:25
And then I did a little more of a deep dive into it.
12:28
But really since the end of the Cold War,
12:29
the Russian population has been on a very steep decline
12:32
for a variety of reasons.
12:34
So much so that if you can chart that out
12:38
and see how long that they can actually field an army
12:42
based off that those demographics.
12:46
And really, what it said was 2022 was the year
12:50
by which they would have to make this move
12:53
or sometime before that.
12:54
So from 2014 up until 2022.
12:57
So it's not like people weren't thinking about this.
12:59
It's that the wrong people were not thinking about this.
13:03
But then also, it's easy to make snap judgments
13:07
about things and for whatever reason,
13:09
things are putting into the categories
13:12
of good, evil, black and white
13:14
when it comes to Ukraine and that situation.
13:17
But it is a little bit more complicated that
13:20
with history that goes back World War I, World War II,
13:23
certainly the end of the Cold War.
13:26
And for me, it just makes so much sense
13:28
to go to the pages of history.
13:30
There are lessons there.
13:31
And we can apply those going forward as wisdom.
13:34
And we neglect to do that over and over and over again
13:37
for whatever reason.
13:38
So yeah, the Ukraine situation is certainly interesting.
13:43
And there's a few more elements to it, I think,
13:46
but they can be found once again in the pages of history.
13:49
You can follow the trail all the way to where we are today.
13:51
- Well, it's like you're reading my mind
13:52
because that was where I wanted to go next
13:54
because I feel like just following you on Instagram,
13:56
I get these nuggets of history that either I didn't know about
13:59
or didn't really know the depth of the context
14:01
in order to really understand the situation.
14:03
So flowing that a little bit more
14:04
about the understanding of history
14:05
because we could literally spend the next two hours
14:07
just talking about Russia and Ukraine,
14:09
but we have some other important things to talk about today.
14:11
But I feel like we get shot.
14:13
So I'm 35 years old, so I'm right smack dab
14:15
in the middle of the millennial age range.
14:17
And there are a lot of millennials younger and older
14:19
than me that feel like history started the day
14:21
that they were born.
14:22
And the new generation is just like that as well.
14:24
And these things pop up and we're just shocked.
14:26
But then it's like, you just have to peel back
14:28
the onion of history, just a little bit more
14:30
to understand that this isn't unique at all.
14:32
This is just a latest iteration
14:34
of something that we've continually seen.
14:35
So for you, why do you still find it so important
14:38
to really look at history?
14:39
And I guess what would you suggest to me
14:41
and the guys in our audience in terms of how we can
14:44
delve into history to where it doesn't just seem like
14:46
it's this boring day-lose of information that we can't use?
14:49
I think you need to look at it as a responsibility,
14:52
responsibility as a citizen before just retweeting something,
14:56
that someone else tweets out there who also did not put
14:59
the requisite time, energy, and effort into studying the past,
15:02
studying the history to find out why we have,
15:05
maybe let's say some of these rights
15:06
or why certain things happened and learn from them.
15:10
But I think that's the, it's so hard today,
15:13
harder than previous generations, obviously,
15:15
with TikTok brain, there's an article, Wall Street Journal
15:18
about that recently, 15 seconds of essentially being able
15:21
to focus on something.
15:24
So I think really, all the good and quote unquote bad
15:29
that comes along with social media,
15:31
the worst part of it is that inability to focus
15:35
on something in particular on history.
15:37
Because from the inception of this country,
15:39
if we just take our country, if we don't even go
15:40
to world history, but we just look at our country,
15:43
really from the inception of this country up until today,
15:45
people have sacrificed so that we could have these rights,
15:48
these natural rights.
15:50
And right now, those are being,
15:53
there's a fight to take a lot of those rights away
15:55
from US citizens, from segments of our society,
15:59
from politicians, for a variety of reasons.
16:02
So whether we're talking about free speech,
16:04
we're talking about the inherent right
16:06
to defend yourself, for your family or tribe,
16:09
that these rights are being attacked,
16:12
and more so than in any other time,
16:14
and our behaviors are also being essentially manipulated
16:18
by social media companies.
16:21
And obviously tech giants out there have a lot of power,
16:24
a lot of information, they can influence behavior
16:26
and make us wanna buy something, we didn't know we needed.
16:29
Well, guess what?
16:30
They can also do with that information,
16:31
they can do more than just make you wanna buy a water bottle
16:33
that you were talking about or looked up one sun online.
16:37
So there's just so much power out there,
16:39
and it is concentrated at some very high levels,
16:43
and that power isn't just monetary anymore, it is data,
16:47
it is information, and that is really the value of that,
16:50
because you can manipulate now thoughts and behaviors.
16:55
So it's a, if you don't take the time to take a breath
16:58
and go back into the pages of history
17:00
to study some of these things,
17:02
and figure out why we have some of the rights that we do,
17:04
or why we're on the path that we're on as a country,
17:07
or you go international and look at the Russia Ukraine
17:10
situation and figure out why Russian Ukraine are there,
17:14
and then apply those lessons going forward as a wisdom,
17:17
that's what we owe future generations.
17:19
Otherwise, guess what's gonna happen?
17:21
Well, Americans, sons, and daughters are gonna be back
17:24
on the front lines fighting somewhere in the world
17:26
because we didn't understand our history.
17:29
Our leaders did not, and our voters,
17:32
our citizens didn't put the time into studying that history,
17:36
so they could make informed decisions at the ballot box,
17:39
and I try to remain positive,
17:41
but sometimes it can be difficult
17:44
with everything going on today.
17:46
But you know what?
17:47
The answers are out there in the pages of history,
17:49
which is why it's important not to have an electronic book,
17:51
but physical books, because those things, guess what?
17:54
That's a little button, and they're gone,
17:56
or I'm manipulated as well.
17:57
Hey, now, don't make fun of me for reading my eBooks,
17:59
'cause I got my iPad, I can take it with me everywhere,
18:02
but we'll talk more about books here in just a second,
18:03
but you brought up something that was interesting to me,
18:05
because it's hard for us to point out,
18:07
or even recognize the hypocrisy of the people
18:10
that are elected politicians if we don't understand history,
18:12
and this was actually something
18:14
that was left over from our last podcast episode.
18:16
I didn't actually get to ask you this,
18:17
but you brought it up there a second ago
18:18
when you were talking about the ability to defend ourselves.
18:21
You actually wrote a piece for Town Hall card
18:23
called "Our Obligation to Fight."
18:24
This was back in 2020.
18:26
I'm gonna read this quote to you
18:27
and then get a little bit more context to it.
18:29
Politicians protected by 24/7 taxpayer-funded arms,
18:32
security details, also ironically,
18:34
want to defund the police and take our guns,
18:36
actions that are the height of hypocrisy.
18:39
The rest of us need to stand ready
18:40
to add our own quick reaction force.
18:43
We are dealing with the most sacred of all gifts,
18:45
the gift of life.
18:46
As citizens, it is our responsibility to protect ourselves
18:49
and the lives of our loved ones.
18:50
In fact, that is our primary obligation.
18:54
Now, we've seen a lot of people on the Democratic side
18:55
of the aisle that are now trying to undo the narrative
18:59
that they were anti-police,
19:00
and that they wanted to defund the police,
19:02
and all of a sudden they're gaslighting us and saying,
19:03
"No, we never wanted to defund the police.
19:05
We wanted to refund the better parts of police
19:08
or whatever nonsense that they're quoting out there,
19:10
but we've seen record-high purchases of firearms,
19:13
especially in these communities,
19:15
especially with people of color
19:16
that are in these communities that are suffering the most
19:18
from the defund, the police, movement,
19:19
all these different things.
19:20
But give me a little bit more context on that,
19:22
because that was a great article.
19:23
I hated that we didn't get to it the last time I had you on,
19:26
but that goes into all of this.
19:27
We don't understand even some of the history
19:30
of the horrors of the early 20th century
19:31
where a lot of these population groups
19:33
that were overtaken by these totalitarian regimes
19:36
were unarmed, which led to the fact
19:38
that they were able to be taken over so easily, right?
19:40
And so give me a little bit more context on that.
19:43
- Yeah, really, it's the first freedom,
19:45
the freedom to defend your life,
19:46
the lives of your loved ones,
19:48
and only for a very slim part of human history,
19:50
you've been able to call 911.
19:52
And usually that is something that's gonna happen
19:55
after an incident has already occurred.
19:58
So police will come and take a report,
20:00
and it'll be the aftermath of, not always,
20:04
but most of the time.
20:05
And there's a, but there's a group of people out there
20:08
that want to take away your right to defend your family
20:11
for some reason, while they're surrounded
20:13
by protection that you pay for.
20:18
As a citizen, like it's, it's absolutely,
20:21
and sometimes they pay for it, you know,
20:22
sometimes donors pay for it, that sort of a thing.
20:24
Sometimes it comes from campaigns and that sort of thing,
20:26
but mayors, and if you're talking about
20:28
in office, politician, a lot of the times it is.
20:32
It is the police force and people that are
20:35
on a special security detail and things like that.
20:37
So, and so they're surrounded by people with guns,
20:41
well, at the same time, calling and taking active steps
20:44
to either make it harder for you to defend your life,
20:48
or the lives of your family members,
20:51
or take away that right entirely.
20:53
And yeah, it's just, I don't know, it's a tough,
20:56
I don't know how they do it with a straight face.
20:59
It's just, yeah, and for anyone that supports that,
21:03
while you're unarmed and you're supporting someone who,
21:06
I just don't, I just, yeah, it's hard for me
21:08
to even articulate it because it's so crazy
21:11
that you want to give more power to this person
21:13
that's surrounded by people with guns protecting them,
21:16
yet, and that's okay with you,
21:18
that you don't want to protect your own life,
21:19
you don't value your own life enough to want to protect it,
21:22
you don't value your children's lives enough
21:23
to want to protect them, you don't value your spouse's
21:25
knife wife, life enough to want to protect that,
21:28
that is your primary responsibility
21:29
is doing those things.
21:31
And yet you vote for someone, or you cheer someone on,
21:33
or donate to someone who just wants to take away,
21:36
well, I mean, sure that you can never defend yourself,
21:38
or take away others' rights to defend theirs,
21:40
their choice to defend theirs,
21:43
their lives and the lives of their loved ones.
21:44
So it is our first freedom,
21:47
and it should be our primary responsibility as citizens
21:50
is making sure that we are strong and we are self-reliant,
21:52
and we can defend that gift of life.
21:55
- Well, Jack, we live in an outsourcing world, too,
21:58
everything that we can outsource to another entity,
22:00
no, no, no, you write my social media posts,
22:02
no, no, no, you cook my dinner and deliver it
22:04
to my doorstep, the same thing is true with our violence.
22:06
And most people don't like to think of it that way,
22:08
they think we're outsourcing our protection,
22:09
but we're outsourcing our violence to somebody else.
22:12
So we're gonna put hands and nightsticks
22:14
and whatever in the hands of police officers,
22:16
but we don't want it in the hands of our neighbor, right?
22:18
Because that could just be too dangerous.
22:20
Well, like, what if they get mad?
22:21
What if they get to drinking and they decide
22:23
they want to shoot up the neighborhood?
22:24
So it's that kind of like type of thinking,
22:26
but the politicians that do it,
22:27
it's a special kind of narcissism.
22:29
It's different than the narcissist
22:31
that loves looking at themselves in the mirror.
22:33
They look at themselves in the mirror
22:34
and they think, I'm so much smarter than these adults.
22:36
So whatever I say, it doesn't matter.
22:38
There are no repercussions.
22:39
And we can get into all the media
22:41
and how they have a big input on that
22:42
and how they have a big impact on that.
22:43
But I do want to kind of get back to the books
22:45
and kind of get to really the whole reason
22:47
why you're kind of this big superstar.
22:49
I don't know if you know this,
22:50
but you're super famous, Jack.
22:51
And then everybody knows you and loves you at this point.
22:52
So I'm just going to keep greasing that wheel.
22:54
But we actually jump in with one thing
22:56
on what you just said, 'cause it's important.
22:58
But it's, I think there's also,
23:00
there's a component of moral vanity to it
23:03
that it's hard to place where that comes from
23:06
or why that's important to certain segments of society.
23:09
I mean, you can find out why politicians
23:11
want to manipulate you 'cause they want your vote.
23:13
And of course, so they can stay in power
23:15
and somehow, the other thing about those politicians
23:18
that it's very interesting how those
23:20
who are called to serve in the political realm
23:23
also seem to be very savvy investors.
23:25
- Hmm, isn't that interesting?
23:27
- Yeah, there's that as well.
23:28
So they want to, yeah, get in there
23:29
and make some very savvy investments.
23:32
And then at the same time,
23:33
take away your right to defend your life
23:35
and the life of your family members.
23:37
So interesting.
23:38
- Okay, sorry, I just had--
23:39
- Well, no, now you're starting to say
23:40
like conspiracy theorists, right?
23:41
We're going to get canned over here, all right?
23:43
So we're going to do our best to bring it back
23:45
to the stuff that we knew we were going to be talking about.
23:47
We got to talk about the new book.
23:48
It's going to come in and earn their pay, I guess.
23:52
- Yeah, absolutely.
23:54
Before we get into the new book,
23:55
I got to, I just talked to you about something
23:57
that I know has bugged you for a long time,
23:59
but you're kind of helping to counteract this.
24:02
The fact that men just don't read, right?
24:04
Men as a group, as a homogenous group.
24:07
American men, they don't buy books and they don't read books.
24:10
I even had someone the other day, they said,
24:11
hey, if you want this thing to really take off,
24:13
you need to market it at wives
24:14
because they're the ones that are going to buy it
24:16
and demand that their husband do it or read it
24:17
or absorb it or something like that.
24:19
You had a different upbringing.
24:20
You grew up, I believe it was your mother
24:22
that was a librarian and so you were reading constantly
24:24
and that's something that you love.
24:25
So I'm going to have to kind of ask you
24:27
to pull yourself out of your own personality
24:29
and your own personhood for a second
24:31
because reading is old hat for you.
24:33
What do you have to say to men that think to themselves,
24:36
I don't need to read a book.
24:37
Like I've got a television or I don't need to read a book.
24:40
You know, I read books in high school.
24:41
I don't need that anymore.
24:43
Why is it so important for men to continue to read?
24:46
Well, I guess it depends on your definition of success,
24:49
what a full life is, what it looks like,
24:52
what a rich life is and by rich,
24:53
I certainly don't mean monetarily so.
24:56
But living a richer, fuller life
25:00
and how are you going to do that?
25:03
I guess if that's not important to you,
25:04
continue to not read.
25:06
But if that is important to you,
25:08
then pick up a book, pick up a lot of books.
25:12
Start building that library.
25:13
You don't even have to read all these books in your library.
25:15
Having them there so that you can reference them.
25:18
Go to a chapter, read that chapter,
25:20
have it lead you somewhere else.
25:22
That is a foundation on which to build all else.
25:26
And can you build a richer, fuller life without reading?
25:28
I'm sure.
25:30
But it will certainly be beneficial.
25:33
I can't think of it in a single instance
25:35
where it would not be beneficial to build a life
25:38
on a foundation of reading and knowledge
25:41
and therefore benefiting from the wisdom of others.
25:44
There's, and I'm not talking about tweets
25:46
and Instagram posts and that sort of thing.
25:48
It's not the same.
25:50
It's going, having that deep thought,
25:52
that quiet time to reflect spending hours
25:54
in the pages of a book.
25:56
Something that interests you, part of the history
25:59
that interests you and just going into those pages
26:02
because it'll make your life 100%.
26:06
It will, well, let's see, the best way to put it.
26:08
It won't hurt you.
26:10
How about that?
26:11
Let's start there.
26:12
And if you wanted to help you and allow you to build
26:16
that foundation towards a richer, fuller life,
26:18
then start building that library.
26:20
Hey, I tell people all the time, it's a net positive, right?
26:22
So there are times where it's like,
26:23
okay, I don't have time to watch this entire show,
26:25
but I can read this chapter.
26:26
And it's these people that say they don't have enough time,
26:28
but they just binge watched an entire show
26:31
that had multiple seasons in every episode
26:33
when it was an hour long.
26:33
So it's like, no, that's a choice of attention.
26:36
You went in there and you got your brain and your eyes
26:38
tickled a little bit, you got entertained,
26:39
and then you moved on, but it didn't make you any better.
26:41
You can maybe win, you know, a trivia contest
26:44
by saying what a character's name was,
26:46
but it's not really developing you any deeper.
26:47
So we got to talk about the new book.
26:49
- We're talking about the terminal list
26:51
on Chris Pratt coming to Amazon Prime on July 1st.
26:53
Unless we're talking about that.
26:54
- Right.
26:55
- But interestingly enough, when you watch the opening credits,
27:01
there'll be something in there that we're just talking about.
27:03
There'll be a book or two.
27:04
- Okay, sounds good.
27:05
Well, we're going to get to the terminal list
27:07
for Amazon Prime, but we got to get to this.
27:09
This is in the blood, this is out.
27:10
This week, guys, if you're listening to this on time,
27:12
it is over your right shoulder.
27:13
This is a fifth novel in the James Reese series.
27:15
Thanks again to you and your team for sending this my way
27:17
so I could get a sneak peek to it.
27:19
But I told you this a while back, all right.
27:21
And then you just kind of, you did your, you know,
27:22
humble Jack Carthing, ha, ha, thanks a lot.
27:24
But I mean it, it seems like with every subsequent release,
27:27
you seem to be getting better.
27:29
Like, like, and you didn't suck to begin with.
27:31
So you had the terminal list and the true believer
27:33
and then Savage Sun, which I know is a favor
27:35
for a lot of people in the devil's hand,
27:36
and now in the blood.
27:38
Do you feel like you're getting better at this?
27:39
Because like every time, I'm waiting for the stinker, okay?
27:42
So we're five novels in and I'm waiting for the one
27:45
that's just like, you know, it was a five,
27:46
but you know, it's four out of five stars kind of a thing.
27:49
Is there a stinker coming or are you just gonna keep
27:50
getting better at this?
27:52
- The goal obviously, like with everything in life
27:54
is to get better.
27:55
So whether that's by a degree or by a few degrees,
27:58
it's to move the genre forward and to get better
28:01
at my craft individually.
28:03
So that's always been the goal with each and every book.
28:07
It continues to be the goal.
28:09
And so people are saying about this one,
28:12
about in the blood that is their favorite thus far.
28:14
And when I started in the most action,
28:16
it's certainly the most action-packed.
28:17
And that's not how I initially sat down to write it.
28:20
That was not my intent.
28:21
It just naturally happened that way.
28:23
But it is certainly the most action-packed
28:25
and it's so much fun.
28:26
And my brain has already shifted to the sixth one
28:28
that I'm writing right now that I think is even gonna outdo
28:31
this one and everything that's come before,
28:34
just because of what I'm writing about
28:36
and how I'm feeling about it and all the rest,
28:38
not done yet, but I'm getting there.
28:40
And I just love doing it and I wanna get better every time.
28:43
So it's always at the forefront of my mind
28:46
is getting a little bit better with each and everyone
28:49
and moving that genre a little bit forward as well.
28:52
- Well, and also you've got the pressure
28:54
of now five novels that are gonna be best-sellers
28:58
that people are gonna be telling their friends about
28:59
and it's expanding your base of people
29:01
that are gonna support you.
29:02
And so you kind of got that motivation
29:04
to keep it going, to keep the research going,
29:06
to write a little faster,
29:07
which is something I know you've talked about
29:08
on other interviews and on your podcast.
29:10
I wanna try to get a little bit tighter,
29:12
but for no spoilers here,
29:14
for anyone who has not been able to pick up the book
29:16
and read it yet because this is being released
29:17
on the day the book comes out.
29:19
But what can fans of the series expect from "In the Blood?"
29:22
- Yeah, so this one's a sniper centric novel
29:24
of violent resolutions.
29:25
So that's kind of what I had in my head
29:27
throughout the entire writing process.
29:29
And I had to figure out a way,
29:30
I always wanted to write a sniper centric novel,
29:32
but I had to figure out a way to do it
29:34
where I wasn't going to devolve into two snipers
29:36
on opposite mountains, glassing for each other
29:38
or in two buildings, glassing for each other,
29:40
looking at the last, no, they find each other
29:42
at the same time and then they shoot.
29:43
And one goes right through the scope
29:44
and then the other guy's afraid.
29:45
Like that's been done, you know?
29:47
So I had to figure out a way to write a sniper centric novel
29:49
as a sniper myself, bring that emotion,
29:52
bring that feeling to it, bring that accuracy
29:55
as far as technicality goes to it,
29:58
but also not fall into those tropes.
30:00
And so I love how, I mean, I love the whole process.
30:04
I love figuring things out.
30:05
I love solving problems on the written page
30:07
and I love how I worked it out in this one.
30:09
So that's really the baseline.
30:12
But then I also did a deep dive into,
30:14
'cause I wanted to juxtapose the old and the new,
30:16
we all that in there.
30:17
So I did a lot of research into quantum computing,
30:20
into artificial intelligence, into mass data storage,
30:23
into the surveillance of US citizens.
30:26
So I went deep down that rabbit hole,
30:28
just like I did with bio-weapons for the devil's hand.
30:30
That affected a lot of interviews, read a lot.
30:33
Interestingly enough, when you're reading
30:35
about quantum computing or an artificial intelligence
30:38
and mass data storage and surveillance,
30:41
you're already, you're already, you're already dated
30:45
because things are moving so quickly.
30:48
So when I was reading Snowden's book,
30:50
of course, about permanent record,
30:52
that's already like a decade of that information.
30:54
It's already, it's already a decade old.
30:57
There have been a lot of improvements over the last 10 years
31:00
and improvements, I put that in quotation marks,
31:02
but interestingly enough, everybody that I interviewed
31:06
who had a touch point with quantum computing
31:08
and artificial intelligence today said
31:12
that they could tell me more,
31:13
but it would put my book into the science fiction category.
31:17
So, and that's scary.
31:18
So for people that read it and read it with that in mind,
31:21
yeah, it's frightening.
31:23
And the people that did read it and read those parts
31:25
said it was scarier than the bio-weapons research
31:27
that I did and how I wrote about that in the devil's hand.
31:30
- Well, that's one thing I remember you talking about
31:32
with the devil's hand and in no spoilers
31:33
for anyone that hasn't read that yet,
31:35
which guys, that's a year old, go get it and read it.
31:37
What's wrong with you?
31:38
But like there were so many times in there where I'm like,
31:40
is this real?
31:41
Like, is this stuff actually happening?
31:43
Do they actually have these weapons stored
31:45
in these different places?
31:46
And I think I forget exactly how you said it
31:48
in another interview,
31:49
but it was something along the lines of it's,
31:50
you know, plausible enough to be,
31:53
you know, not going to the realm of science fiction
31:55
or something like that.
31:56
But then it also kind of, you know,
31:58
people are kind of going with it
31:59
and they're like, you know, James Reese is kind of turning
32:01
into Superman at this point.
32:02
Like, is he always going to be able to get out
32:04
of these situations?
32:05
But it really begs the question
32:06
that a lot of people have really asked you,
32:08
which is spin-offs have to be coming.
32:10
Right?
32:11
There are probably going to be spin-offs
32:12
about, you know, James Reese's father
32:14
and, you know, is James going to be having some kids
32:16
that are going to be going down a similar path as daddy?
32:18
So whenever you get asked that question,
32:20
you answer it very diplomatically
32:21
and you say, yeah, probably.
32:22
But are we really going to expect to see
32:24
in the near future some spin-offs
32:26
from the main storyline of James Reese?
32:28
- I wouldn't say the near future,
32:30
but it all depends on, you know, what that,
32:32
what's your definition of near is?
32:33
What are we talking?
32:34
There are things that I want to explore for sure.
32:36
And I'd quite intentionally put information
32:40
about Reese's family, multi-generational,
32:42
about the Hastings family, multi-generational.
32:44
So I could go back and explore those other characters
32:46
and people, I could ask that question quite a bit.
32:48
People on social media, hit me up on it quite a bit
32:51
about exploring those things.
32:53
And I would like to do that at some point.
32:55
This is my year to get organized on business fronts
32:59
and organizationally here with that time to write
33:01
and then time to do the business side
33:03
and all the rest of it.
33:04
So those things are in the works,
33:07
but right now my focus is on book six.
33:11
- So pick us through your writing process a little bit
33:14
because you said you're trying to tighten things up
33:16
because you spend a lot of time researching.
33:18
So my understanding is you spend a lot of time researching
33:20
and then you kind of, you know, tuck yourself away
33:22
to do the writing.
33:23
Or is it more of an intermittent thing
33:25
where you research a little bit
33:26
and you write segments of the book
33:28
and then you kind of start from your outline
33:29
and build out from there.
33:30
What's kind of your style and your process?
33:32
- Yeah, it's intermittent because as I write these chapters,
33:36
I might have done a cursory bit of research on X, Y, Z.
33:41
And then when I actually get to that stage
33:44
of the writing process where I get to that point
33:46
in the outline where now it's time to write about those things,
33:48
well, now I gotta go do a deep dive.
33:50
And so now I'm researching those things online
33:53
through books, through interviews.
33:55
People are connecting me with different people out there
33:57
that have touch points with whatever I'm researching.
33:59
And from that, then that might change things up
34:02
what I learned.
34:03
It might not be what I learned during that cursory research.
34:05
Well, maybe there's a couple more factors
34:07
that I can weave in there that now affect the book
34:09
going forward, but also might have affected something
34:12
that I've already written.
34:13
So I gotta go back and make that,
34:14
make sure that everything lines up.
34:16
So it's smooth as I continue to work on this plot.
34:20
But process wise, it's been the same from the first book
34:23
and I'm not sure it'll always be this way,
34:24
but everyone has been this way thus far
34:27
to include the one I'm working on now.
34:28
But it started with this one-page executive summary,
34:31
like whether that's a paragraph, two paragraphs,
34:33
three paragraphs, four paragraphs,
34:35
but almost like the book jacket,
34:37
something that would get you to buy it.
34:39
And also for me to read that one-page executive summary
34:42
and say, you know what, I wanna spend the next year
34:44
of my life devoted to this story, to this topic,
34:47
to this theme.
34:48
So really it's for both.
34:49
It's for the reader in my head thinking,
34:51
hey, would this excite someone enough
34:52
to wanna read this book?
34:53
And then, hey, does it excite me enough
34:55
to wanna spend a year of my life dedicated
34:57
to making this book the most best it can possibly be?
35:00
So I do that and then I come up with the title.
35:03
It's very important for me to have a title right off the bat.
35:05
So it does not wasting bandwidth in my head.
35:07
I'm not typing away and thinking,
35:08
oh man, I really gotta figure out this title.
35:10
I can't think of a good one.
35:12
No, I always have a title right there.
35:13
And then I have this theme,
35:14
something, whether it's revenge for the first book,
35:17
whether it's violent redemption for true believer
35:19
or the dark side of man for the third book,
35:22
or what the enemies learn by watching us
35:24
on the field of battle for 20 years
35:26
with the devil's hand or the sniper centric novel
35:29
of violent resolutions or something.
35:30
There's that one sentence, one word phrase,
35:33
whatever it is that guides me throughout the entire process.
35:36
So when I have those three things,
35:38
then I take that one page executive summary
35:40
and I turn that into an outline.
35:41
So at the beginning, middle, end.
35:43
So I know where I'm going and fill that in
35:46
as thoroughly as I can without it tripping me up,
35:49
without turning it into, oh, I ran into a block in part one here.
35:53
How's he ever going to get out of this?
35:54
And spending two weeks trying to figure it out.
35:56
No, I'm going around, I'm going over, I'm going through.
35:59
And I know that in the next year,
36:01
as I'm working on this, I'll figure that out.
36:02
I'm not making decisions under fire anymore
36:06
that I can make, I can sleep on it
36:08
for a couple nights if necessary,
36:10
all for a month, for two.
36:12
So I do that and then I get that outline
36:14
to where I think it needs to be.
36:16
And of course, that's subjective.
36:18
And then I start turning that into the book.
36:20
So that's how it's been so far, it works for me.
36:23
And yeah, I love every part of that.
36:25
- That's awesome.
36:26
I really appreciate you giving us a little bit
36:27
of a peek behind the curtain on that.
36:29
But let's go and get into the thing
36:30
that you teased up a little bit earlier.
36:31
And that is the "Terminalist" series.
36:33
Not just the book, but the "Terminalist" series
36:35
that is going to be on Amazon Prime Star and Chris Pratt.
36:38
Got an A-lister and that is going to be launching in July of 2022.
36:42
And so I'm an Amazon Prime member, like I've got that,
36:45
but I've never really had anything to watch on there.
36:47
And so it's like, I'm really excited.
36:48
I know there's some good series on there, guys.
36:50
I'm not hating.
36:51
But this is an incredible thing for you.
36:52
I remember whenever you first announced this.
36:54
I mean, I was just overwhelmed.
36:55
I'm so happy for you that this was going to be happening
36:58
and it wasn't going to be in some D-list thing.
37:00
It's on Amazon Prime.
37:01
And you have Chris Pratt as a part of it.
37:03
But I guess in your wildest dreams,
37:05
'cause you've wanted to be a writer for a long time,
37:07
even before you became a seal,
37:08
did you ever think that your novels would be turned into a movie
37:12
or into a TV series?
37:13
Was that ever part of the plan?
37:15
- Yeah, I always thought that would be the case.
37:18
But whatever reason, I guess when you want to do something
37:20
from when you're a little kid,
37:21
it's like saying you want to be an astronaut
37:22
and then never having anybody dissuade you.
37:25
Or if they did, maybe that discouragement
37:28
didn't really take root.
37:30
And you went and you did it.
37:32
So wanting to do this from my youngest days,
37:35
I wanted to first serve my country in the military,
37:37
specifically as a seal, and then write thrillers.
37:39
And then I was really training myself up
37:41
for both of those my whole life.
37:43
And it was very, I was very cognizant of the fact
37:46
that I was training myself up to be a seal
37:48
because that's fairly obvious.
37:49
You're doing push-ups, you're sprinting,
37:50
you're running, you're putting a ruck on,
37:52
you're swimming, you're reading books about military history,
37:55
you're reading books about terrorism,
37:56
special operations.
37:57
When I got old enough, I was going to the range
37:59
and I was shooting and I sought out Vietnam era guys
38:02
that really knew what they were doing
38:03
with pistols, with rifles, with shotguns,
38:06
and did everything I possibly could to prepare myself
38:09
to be the best operator.
38:10
I could possibly be one day, the best leader.
38:12
I could possibly be one day.
38:13
But at the same time, I was reading books by Tom Clancy,
38:16
Nelson DeMille, A.K. Bonnell, J.C. Pollock, Mark Olden,
38:19
David Morrell, all these guys in the '80s,
38:21
who's protagonist, who's main characters,
38:23
had backgrounds that I wanted one day.
38:24
So those guys had, typically back in the '80s,
38:26
it was you had a marine sniper from Vietnam,
38:29
you had an army special forces guy from Vietnam,
38:31
you had an AV SEAL from Vietnam,
38:32
you had a CIA paramilitary guy from Vietnam,
38:34
and then either they got out and did something
38:36
and then were pulled into some sort of a conspiracy
38:38
or they got out and went to work for the agency
38:40
and were on submissions or whatever it might be.
38:43
But as a kid grew up in the '80s, that was magic.
38:45
That was magic to me.
38:46
And so even though I didn't look at it
38:48
as studying for my future profession as a writer,
38:51
that's really what I was doing.
38:53
And I started studying Joseph Campbell
38:54
and Harold with "A Thousand Faces"
38:56
and "The Hero's Journey" very early on, back in 1988,
38:59
when he did a series of interviews with Bill Moyers
39:00
called "The Power of Myth."
39:02
And I've just always been that student,
39:04
whether it's a warfare or a writing,
39:06
and that it all kind of came together here
39:09
as I was getting out of the military.
39:11
But I always thought, yeah, I'm gonna be a SEAL,
39:14
I'm gonna serve my country,
39:15
I'm gonna do all these secret missions,
39:16
that's what you think when you're a kid.
39:18
And then I'm gonna get out and write thrillers,
39:20
they're gonna be at the top of the "New York Times" list,
39:21
and then an A-list actor is gonna option them,
39:23
they're gonna be the big movie, and that's just what I thought.
39:26
And so to have that actually happening,
39:28
I feel extremely fortunate,
39:30
but I didn't waste any bandwidth worried
39:32
about it not happening.
39:33
I guess that's the point.
39:35
I just did it, made the best book I possibly could,
39:37
and then now we have this series
39:39
that I couldn't be more proud of.
39:40
- That's an incredible story of how you got there,
39:42
'cause when I was a little kid,
39:43
I was hitting walk-off home runs in game seven
39:45
of the World Series in my front yard,
39:46
and [inaudible], I didn't make it there.
39:48
So it's great that at least some kid in America
39:50
was able to come map out their dream life
39:52
and you're living it right now,
39:53
which is amazing for you and your family.
39:55
But take us through, because a lot of people know
39:56
that Chris Pratt is now a part of what you have going on,
39:59
a part of the project,
40:00
but a lot of people don't realize how early on
40:02
in the project, he became a part of it.
40:04
They were just doing an open casting call on Chris Pratt,
40:07
it's like, oh yeah, hey, I'd like to do that,
40:08
thank you very much.
40:09
Take us through how Chris Pratt got involved.
40:11
- Yeah, so as I was writing it,
40:13
it was before Guardians of the Galaxy,
40:14
before Avengers, before Jurassic World,
40:18
really before Chris's rise to A-list prominence,
40:21
and he had been Andy Dwyer on Parks and Rec,
40:23
so a little overweight, lovable,
40:25
and then he played a Seal in Zero Dark 30,
40:29
the movie about the Bin Laden raid,
40:31
and so I saw that transformation,
40:33
and that movie came out a little before
40:37
I started writing the book,
40:38
but I saw that transformation,
40:40
I think I saw a couple articles with him
40:42
and he seemed like a really great guy,
40:43
and he wasn't the Chris Pratt we know today yet,
40:47
but even as I started writing that first book,
40:50
I thought this is the guy who will portray James Reese,
40:53
and there's a difference between picturing James Reese
40:55
as Chris Pratt, that's not what I did,
40:57
I pictured Chris Pratt portraying him,
40:59
bringing him to life on the screen,
41:02
and I think there's a difference there,
41:04
but I didn't know I had a connection to Chris at all,
41:06
and no connections to Hollywood,
41:07
no connections to Simon & Schuster,
41:09
or New York publishing at all,
41:11
but I didn't think I needed him at the time,
41:13
I just was like, I'm gonna write this great book,
41:15
of course Simon & Schuster is gonna want it,
41:16
of course, Emily Gessler at Simon & Schuster
41:18
is gonna want it, Vince Flynn's editor,
41:21
that's who I want to be my editor,
41:23
and then of course Chris Pratt's gonna do this,
41:25
and then of course Antoine Fuqua is gonna direct,
41:27
he did Training Day, Tears of the Sun,
41:29
magnificent seven, awesome, awesome guy,
41:31
and I thought that's who I want to direct,
41:33
and Chris is who I want to star,
41:34
and Emily I want to be my editor
41:36
at Simon & Schuster, editor publisher,
41:37
and then I just typed away,
41:39
I didn't worry about those things not happening,
41:41
and then book gets to Simon & Schuster,
41:44
gets to Emily Bessler, she's my editor and publisher,
41:47
but then right before the book comes out,
41:49
so it came out in March of 2018, the first book,
41:52
in November of 2017, so a few months before,
41:55
I got a call from a buddy of mine in the SEAL teams
41:57
who I hadn't talked to in five years,
41:58
and he calls me out of the blue and says,
42:00
"Hey, do you remember me?"
42:01
And of course I did, and then he said,
42:04
"Do you remember what you did for me in the SEAL teams?"
42:06
And I couldn't remember at the time,
42:08
and he said, "Well, you sat me down in your office,
42:10
"you talked to me about transitioning out,
42:12
"you found out I was getting out of the military,
42:14
"you introduced me to people in the private sector,
42:15
"and you're the only person that took the time
42:18
"and cared enough to sit down and talk to me about that,
42:20
"and I've never forgotten it, I always wanted to thank you."
42:23
And I said, "No problem, man, how's it going?"
42:25
And he said, "It's going great,
42:26
"but I heard you have a book coming out."
42:28
And I said, "Yeah, it's coming out in about five months or so,
42:29
"and I have a galley copy,
42:31
"which is like an early reader's edition,
42:33
"I can send you a kind of a rough draft."
42:35
And he said, "Yeah, I'd like that,
42:36
"but I'd like to give it to a friend of mine," and I said, "No problem,
42:38
"who's that?"
42:39
And he said, "Chris Pratt."
42:41
So I'll send it to my friend Jared Shaw,
42:44
and he read it first just to make sure it wasn't garbage,
42:47
then he gave it to Chris.
42:48
Chris read it in late December of 2017,
42:50
and then called it the next week,
42:51
and wanted to option it before it even hit shelves.
42:54
And at the same time, Antoine got it through another friend
42:58
from the SEAL teams, and he wanted it.
43:01
So I had the director that I wanted,
43:02
and the A-list actor I wanted,
43:04
both wanted to do the project at the same time,
43:06
and so Antoine called Chris,
43:08
and they said, "Hey, let's do this thing together."
43:09
So now all three of us are executive producers on this,
43:11
and my friend Jared Shaw from the SEAL teams is a producer.
43:15
He's an advisor, and he plays a character in the series,
43:19
and he just crushes,
43:20
and none of this would have happened without him, that's for sure.
43:23
- It sounds so good to be true,
43:25
and you're starting to make me sad
43:26
about all the things that haven't worked out for me in my life.
43:28
Maybe I should just stop worrying.
43:29
I'll do the Jack Carway of doing things.
43:31
But I guess for all of us that aren't familiar with,
43:34
you know, movie sets or Hollywood TV sets
43:36
or any of those types of things,
43:37
describe what it was like being on set
43:39
as an executive producer, you know,
43:40
with the making of the series and all those different things,
43:43
but also, you know, get into what fans of the novels
43:45
can expect of the series, 'cause I know you know this,
43:47
your fans are so rabid,
43:48
and so if you change something to make it
43:51
a little bit better for television,
43:52
that, you know, isn't as good as it maybe is in the book,
43:55
people might respond negatively,
43:56
or you might change a character,
43:58
a different haircut or something,
43:59
people get their panties in a wad
44:00
about even the smallest of changes
44:02
from their favorite books, so take us through all that.
44:04
- Yeah, so I'll start with the last part of it
44:07
in that there are changes,
44:08
and that's just how it goes.
44:12
But I knew that going in,
44:14
and I usually, they like to get rid of the author
44:15
right away when they do a project like this,
44:17
'cause they don't want the author on set going,
44:19
you rule my vision so I get rid of the author right away,
44:22
but Chris and Antoine wanted to be involved,
44:24
and then the showrunner, David DiGillio,
44:27
who's just incredible,
44:29
they linked me up with him in December of 2019.
44:32
And we had our first phone call together,
44:33
and then we've been inseparable ever since,
44:35
we were just talking earlier today,
44:37
but there's not a day that's gone by since December of 2019
44:40
that we haven't talked about this project,
44:43
but I think he was a little nervous at first,
44:45
'cause usually in all I would, like I said,
44:46
they don't want the author around,
44:47
and I just talked to him about all the things
44:49
that we just talked about here,
44:51
talked about how I read all these books growing up,
44:53
and how "First Blood the Book" written in 1972
44:57
is very different from the movie than 1983,
45:00
both fantastic.
45:02
So I got to talk about being a fan of books,
45:05
obviously of their adaptations,
45:07
having booked at what worked,
45:08
what didn't for me as a fan,
45:11
and so I put him at ease,
45:12
and we've been inseparable ever since,
45:14
but we wrote the first pilot episode,
45:17
and by we, I mean, he wrote it with me learning how to do that,
45:20
and getting to put my input in, of course,
45:22
and he's just been so great throughout this whole process,
45:25
but I learned a ton,
45:26
then he took it with Chris and Antoine,
45:28
and they went and chopped it around,
45:29
and then Amazon ended up being the highest bidder,
45:31
and getting it, and then we put it together,
45:33
all the other episodes, put together a writer's room,
45:35
and then started filming in last March,
45:37
so March of 2021, and finished here in August of 2021.
45:42
But, and then it goes into post-production.
45:44
So right now, where we're just putting the final touches
45:46
on the teaser, the trailer that are coming out soon,
45:48
but there are changes.
45:51
So if someone takes the book and just goes through me,
45:53
like, that's a change up,
45:54
that character wasn't in the book,
45:56
or you know what, that character is a conglomeration
45:58
of two characters, nope, nope, check.
46:01
That's a pretty miserable way to feel about it,
46:03
but what was important to me and to Chris and Antoine
46:06
was to keep that dark, visceral, violent,
46:09
primal nature of the book,
46:11
keep it authentic, the tactics and the weapons handling,
46:14
keep those emotions and the feelings behind these things
46:18
all incorporated into not just a revenge thriller,
46:22
but this is what David DiGillio brought to it also,
46:24
but they added a psychological thriller component to it,
46:27
which I think works so well, telling the story visually.
46:30
And so for fans of the book, there will be surprises,
46:34
'cause it's not exactly the same,
46:35
but I love the surprises and I really think we got it.
46:39
Like, you could change,
46:41
like there could have been a couple of things in there
46:43
that would have changed
46:44
and it would have just destroyed the whole thing,
46:46
but we didn't, we got it done,
46:49
and we got it done in a way
46:50
that I could not be more thrilled about.
46:52
And then there's little Easter eggs in there too.
46:54
So for something that maybe wasn't really in the series,
46:57
well, if you look close,
46:59
there's like a little something for you for that person
47:01
that's like, oh, I can't believe this wasn't,
47:03
oh, look what that is over in the corner there.
47:05
So you have to watch close, just like in my books,
47:07
I put a lot of little Easter egg things in there
47:09
or a little word or an object.
47:12
It's just for maybe one or two other people on the planet,
47:16
but we did that same thing with the series.
47:18
And then also with the series,
47:19
very unusual for Hollywood is that there was no payment
47:22
for product placement, just like there's no,
47:24
no one pays me to put anything in the novels
47:26
around my gear list or on my Instagram or anything like that.
47:29
So we kept it authentic.
47:30
The Amazon was so great about understanding
47:33
how important gear and authenticity was through the books
47:37
and that fan base.
47:38
And so there's no product placement
47:40
other than what is authentic and feels real
47:42
and is real for the book.
47:44
Like there's some things that we couldn't get.
47:45
Like we had a plane that was ready to go exactly
47:49
like the book and at the last second,
47:50
they found out we're gonna land it on a dirt runway
47:53
and I said, no.
47:55
So we just scrambled for the last second
47:56
and find another plane.
47:57
So it's close, but not exactly the same,
47:59
but those things just happen and that's life.
48:02
And then sometimes there's not the exact piece of kit,
48:04
but there's something similar or whatever,
48:07
but for the most part, like the armor came to Utah
48:09
and talked to Darcy Eccles and got an exact replica
48:12
of this Eccles rifle.
48:13
It's in the first chapter, really the prologue
48:16
of the first novel, a scope that Knight Force
48:18
doesn't even make anymore.
48:20
So we had had those, so there's a lot of things like that,
48:23
the Winkletama Hawks, like all those things
48:26
that are so important to the book and the character
48:28
as far as the character development goes
48:30
and the story itself are in there.
48:32
And really I haven't seen a story in Hollywood
48:37
that has taken that much care
48:38
and totally discarded any sort of paid product placement.
48:42
- Well, and the thing that I'm so glad about,
48:43
I'm glad it wasn't a movie because I think
48:45
it would have been an amazing movie,
48:47
but there's so much more that you can do
48:48
with the miniseries and so how many episodes
48:50
is this gonna be?
48:51
- Eight episodes.
48:52
- Okay, so eight episodes.
48:53
So you can do an eight hour long movie
48:55
and you can get so many more things in
48:57
as opposed to trying to get it all
48:58
in two, two and a half hours.
49:00
And I hate to even ask this question
49:01
because this is just kind of how we're wired.
49:03
Now it's that focusing you were talking about earlier
49:05
in the show, but I'm already curious
49:07
about what happens after this, right?
49:09
'Cause I know I'm gonna go in July to my Amazon app
49:12
and I'm gonna watch, I'm basically gonna binge watch all eight.
49:14
And just like with everybody else,
49:15
they don't realize it took years
49:17
to get that season in their life.
49:18
And all of a sudden they're like,
49:19
"Well, when season two wins whatever."
49:21
But we do know there's subsequent books.
49:23
It goes beyond the terminal list.
49:24
And I guess I'll try to make my question easier.
49:27
And I know if people don't watch it,
49:28
of course they're not gonna do a second one,
49:29
but assuming this goes well,
49:32
is it gonna keep following your books?
49:34
Is it gonna go right into True Believer?
49:35
And then Savage Son and so on and so forth?
49:37
Is it gonna kind of splinter off from that?
49:39
And then kind of the trajectory of the books
49:41
is gonna be different than the trajectory
49:43
of what we see on the screen?
49:45
Take me through that.
49:46
Yeah, so we'll see.
49:47
I think that ball is primarily in Chris Pratt's court.
49:51
So one, if he wants to do it,
49:53
and then if he does wanna do it,
49:54
what other projects are out there?
49:56
What are they offering?
49:58
Where are those taking place?
50:00
So all sorts of factors like that go into it.
50:02
And if it is a success,
50:04
how willing will Amazon be to try to keep Chris
50:09
from doing those other opportunities that he has
50:11
and to keep him doing this?
50:13
So all sorts of factors.
50:14
I know he wants to do it,
50:16
but there's a lot of factors there.
50:17
So we shall say, I mean, he crushes it for people that are,
50:20
I mean, today on Twitter, I saw someone that said something
50:24
like I'm a little concerned about Chris Pratt
50:26
being, you know, being tough, he crushes.
50:28
Like that is zero concern to me.
50:31
I was not a concern to me before,
50:34
and it's certainly not a concern now
50:36
that I see how Chris crushed it.
50:38
So it's fantastic.
50:39
But also you asked me about what was like to go on set.
50:41
And that was so cool walking on that set
50:44
because it reminded me of a military operation.
50:47
You have craft food services
50:49
'cause you gotta feed the troops downrange,
50:50
you gotta feed all those 350 people
50:52
that are making this film.
50:54
You have an armorer, just like in the SEAL team.
50:56
You gotta have somebody that you're looking back,
50:58
checking those serial numbers, logging them back in.
51:00
So same thing on set.
51:01
Have an explosives guy
51:02
'cause you're gonna blow something up.
51:04
You have to have that guy on set that does that.
51:05
Well, in a SEAL team, you have your preacher,
51:07
you have your explosives expert there.
51:09
In a SEAL team, you have your commanding officer.
51:11
That was Antoine Fuqua at the top.
51:12
He's the commanding officer up there
51:13
setting the tone strategically.
51:15
And then you have Chris Pratt down here
51:17
as happens to be playing a troop commander,
51:20
but that would be setting the tone tactically
51:22
for everyone else on set.
51:25
So there's a transportation person,
51:27
just like there's a mobility person in a SEAL platoon
51:30
getting you to and from targeted vehicles and helicopters,
51:32
whatever it might be.
51:33
Same thing on set.
51:35
You have a transportation guy, mobility guy.
51:37
So there are so many of the exact same roles
51:41
that need to be filled on set
51:42
as there are in a SEAL platoon, a SEAL team, SEAL troop,
51:45
that sort of a thing.
51:46
So that really stuck out to me.
51:48
And then it was like a reunion
51:49
when I got to that set for the first time
51:50
because it's a SEAL-centric episode, the first one.
51:53
So we have SEAL buddies of mine playing SEALs.
51:56
And it was fantastic to see everybody.
51:58
It was like a week-long reunion
52:00
doing this one big scene in the first episode.
52:04
- I'm very excited for this.
52:05
And like I told you, I was excited from the very beginning
52:07
whenever there was an announcement
52:08
that this was going to happen.
52:09
Because whenever I'm reading through books,
52:11
I never really think like, oh, this should be a movie.
52:13
But whenever it happens,
52:14
I'm either excited or disappointed.
52:15
And to the Chris Pratt and maybe not being tough thing,
52:17
I first knew about Chris Pratt on Everwood.
52:20
That was a show on the WB, like a million-year-old.
52:22
- You were really an author.
52:24
- Like I was early, like this was four parks
52:25
and wrecking all that.
52:26
But one thing that I knew about Chris Pratt early on
52:28
is this kid, you know, wrestled,
52:29
I think he wrestled in high school and all that.
52:31
And it's like, you know, not every wrestler
52:33
on the planet is tough.
52:34
But it's like when you're in shape
52:35
and you have a wrestling background,
52:36
like there's something about you
52:38
because it's really, really hard to get through
52:39
the wrestling practice in high school.
52:41
If you don't have some of that in or kind of like,
52:43
screw you, I'm going to get through this.
52:45
And so I have no possible issues with him
52:48
being tough enough for this role.
52:49
I'm just excited to see him in it.
52:51
We're kind of winding down to the end here,
52:52
but I do want to talk about your podcast.
52:53
So, you know, since you got into writing
52:55
and since you got into this project
52:56
and everything, you have launched a podcast
52:58
called Danger Close beyond the books with Jack Carr.
53:00
And at first, I thought it was just going to be you
53:02
talking about your own books.
53:03
And I was like, I don't know how long this is going to go,
53:05
but I'm glad, you know, I'll be along for the ride.
53:07
But you've had a lot of people on your podcast,
53:09
you kind of allow them to take us behind the curtain
53:12
about, you know, their history in the military
53:13
or how they became a rider and all those great things.
53:16
And guys, I'll have a link in the show notes
53:17
so you can check it out if you didn't know
53:18
that the Danger Close podcast was out there.
53:20
But I just have one question that I know it's always weird
53:24
when you say, who's your favorite or who's your any of this?
53:26
It's like picking your favorite kid.
53:28
But as of right now, so two-part question.
53:30
Who has been your most memorable guest so far?
53:33
So their appearance on your show was the most memorable.
53:36
And then in the future, who is somebody
53:38
that you have not had on your show yet
53:40
that you really would like to have on?
53:42
- Well, I'll let a Chris on talk about the show, of course.
53:46
That's the one that immediately jumps to mind.
53:49
So I was just thinking about it today.
53:50
But of all the ones I've had on this far
53:52
and it's true that you thought it was going to be me
53:54
talking about my books.
53:56
That's why I put the Beyond the books in there.
53:58
I'm hoping that we'd do people off today.
54:01
It's more than just the books.
54:03
But I did it really for a couple reasons.
54:06
One, because it's a platform
54:07
you couldn't have taken advantage of
54:09
as an author 30 years ago.
54:11
And I like to try to look at the battle space and adapt
54:14
and morph, look for gaps, capitalize on momentum.
54:16
So I figured it was a natural thing to do.
54:19
And I'm talking to interesting people all the time anyway.
54:22
It's the one I hit record and do that.
54:23
So it started up with that.
54:25
And then once it, and I thought it was just gonna be
54:27
very small and just kind of be something kind of fun to do
54:30
by it's out, but it grew very quickly.
54:33
And it was a lot more than that, right out of the gate.
54:35
But everybody that I've had on thus far,
54:38
gosh, I've had so many interesting people though.
54:40
Gosh, there's a woman who's coming up this week
54:45
who was in Nairobi in a terrorist.
54:48
She was essentially in the terrorist attack
54:50
that Christian Craighead, SAS operator, went in
54:53
and he started slaying bad guys over there.
54:55
And I hope his book comes out here.
54:57
And at some point it's going through the review process
55:00
with what they call the Ministry of Defense over there.
55:03
- Right.
55:03
- But so I talked to her, oh my gosh, it was incredible.
55:07
Talking to her, just being in a room,
55:08
thinking you're gonna die and hearing footsteps
55:11
get closer, hearing people get shot.
55:13
Seeing the carnage of an explosion after it goes off
55:15
outside your window from an S-Fest to an S-Fest.
55:18
So she, I mean, talking to her was just so, so inspiring.
55:21
And that's coming up here shortly.
55:23
But gosh, I love each and every one.
55:26
There's not one that I'm like, oh man, why did we do that?
55:29
Or I just, it's literally just me talking to friends
55:32
and people that I wanna talk to.
55:33
I never planned it out as a business or like,
55:35
oh, I'm gonna have to do this if I wanna get some clicks
55:37
or wanna get some viewers.
55:39
Like I've never done that.
55:40
It's just like, hey, someone's was a book coming out.
55:42
Hey, maybe they like to talk.
55:43
That'd be cool.
55:44
So I approached it from that perspective,
55:47
but then I also put a lot of work into the research
55:49
before the podcast as well.
55:51
So it is a lot more work than I thought it was gonna be.
55:54
Especially when you have multiple guests in a week
55:56
and they all have a book coming out.
55:58
- Exactly.
55:59
- If it's a recurring character in fiction,
56:01
you know, you don't have to really, you know,
56:02
you can kind of read that pretty quick.
56:04
But if it's like a life story or if it's something
56:07
that's emotional, traumatic, you know, you owe it
56:11
to that person to read the book ahead of time
56:14
and really formulate some thoughtful questions
56:17
'cause they're taking time out of their data
56:18
to spend it with you.
56:20
Just like viewers, just like this.
56:21
Like you're providing something of value.
56:22
You're doing an amazing job with your podcast.
56:24
I love it.
56:25
And you're providing something of value
56:28
as people are trusting you with their time
56:30
during this.
56:31
So you're putting the time into these questions
56:33
and keeping the podcast moving
56:35
and you're an awesome job at all of it.
56:36
So you're giving people value.
56:38
So that's my goal with each and every book,
56:40
with each and every guest on the podcast,
56:42
with each and every post on Instagram or Twitter
56:44
or whatever it might be.
56:45
As much thought goes into each and every sentence
56:48
that goes on Instagram as goes into a question
56:50
from my podcast or goes into a sentence in the book
56:53
because people are trusting me with that time.
56:55
They're never gonna get it back.
56:56
So it's a responsibility that I take very seriously.
56:59
Well, I wanna give you this compliment
57:00
because one thing that is very clear
57:02
about your preparation for your show
57:04
is that you do read the books of the people
57:06
that come on your show
57:07
because I get complimented like that.
57:08
So I'll end an interview and I stop the recording
57:11
and then whoever I'm talking to is like,
57:12
"Hey, you actually read my book
57:14
"and it's so clear that you did.
57:15
"Thank you for doing that."
57:17
Because the publisher has to do people favors
57:20
'cause they're lazy.
57:20
They give them here inside your book.
57:22
Here's the 10 questions that you can ask them
57:24
if you're so lazy and have no time
57:26
to think of your own questions.
57:27
And I purposely don't look at those questions
57:29
not because they're not valuable
57:31
but because I wanna put myself in the mindset
57:33
of one of my listeners.
57:34
And I'm like, it is incumbent upon me
57:36
to give the person that's on the other side of the interview
57:38
my full time and attention.
57:39
And if I don't read every word of their book,
57:41
I'm not doing that.
57:42
And it's like they're donating their time to me for free
57:45
so that they can get to my audience.
57:46
So I owe them and I owe the audience.
57:48
So I absolutely wanna give you that compliment.
57:50
I'm so glad that you think through it that way.
57:53
- Yeah, sometimes I get those same books
57:55
and I look at those questions, but I've never been like,
57:59
wow, that's a great question that they gave me.
58:01
I've never said that.
58:02
I don't think I've ever asked a single question
58:04
that comes off those sheets.
58:05
I do read them because I'm fascinated by them
58:07
'cause I know people get them with my books too
58:09
and I don't even know what's on them.
58:11
But I never use any of those questions either.
58:14
They're never that insightful.
58:16
- Well, they're easy to ask.
58:18
That's what the questions are.
58:19
And so I like to ask the questions that are a little bit
58:21
prying, make people a little bit uncomfortable.
58:23
And like, if I'm fanboying a little bit too much,
58:25
it makes me have to kind of, you know,
58:27
swallow my pride and just say,
58:28
hey, let's say the thing as we go.
58:30
- Yeah, I think they're made for AM radio, I think,
58:32
because publishing houses in general
58:34
are built around legacy media and really understanding
58:37
that space, they do a fantastic job with legacy media,
58:39
particularly for the authors that really make the money
58:42
for everybody else, like a Grisham or a Patterson or a king.
58:44
You know, they kind of like the Avengers movies,
58:46
makes the money for all those movies
58:48
that no one goes to save, but it might be fantastic.
58:50
So same thing in publishing.
58:51
And luckily, you know, I've made their money back,
58:53
made the investment back, and, you know,
58:55
from the right from the get-go, but that's rare.
58:57
That is rare.
58:59
But yeah, that's what they do a very good job
59:01
in that legacy space, which AM radio is,
59:04
and AM radio is awesome, and you hit those local markets,
59:07
and it's awesome.
59:08
But I think, 'cause you're doing,
59:09
those guys are doing five minutes, 10 minutes, 15,
59:12
with a commercial break, and multiple people on,
59:15
and multiple things to talk about.
59:16
So I think a lot of the times,
59:17
those questions that you're getting inside of those books,
59:19
I would guess, are kind of more geared for that kind of AM radio.
59:22
15 minute, here you go, boom, boom, boom,
59:24
and the commercial is my guess.
59:27
- Well, I'm gonna do my best AM radio impression here
59:29
with our final segment of the show.
59:31
It's called, "What would you say to someone that said?"
59:34
I think we did this the last time you were on here,
59:36
but this is lightning round.
59:37
So what I'm gonna say is, I'm gonna say,
59:39
what would you say to someone that said?
59:40
And I'm gonna fill in the blank.
59:42
It could be something nice I've heard said about you,
59:44
something mean I've heard said about you,
59:46
but I just wanna get your 30 second or less response
59:49
to one of these questions.
59:50
So you feel like you're up to it?
59:51
- Let's see, are we in person with this,
59:54
person with saying these things, and how big are they?
59:56
- So let's say it's me, I'm decent size,
1:00:00
but I'm separate.
1:00:01
- I'll have a call of flour here,
1:00:02
have UFC champion hat on?
1:00:03
- Hey, I got a little bit of cauliflower right there,
1:00:05
but guess what?
1:00:06
We are miles away right now, I'm in Oklahoma,
1:00:08
and you're in Utah.
1:00:09
So we'll just assume this is a generic human being,
1:00:12
saying these things, and you're in a good mood.
1:00:14
How about that?
1:00:14
- That's good.
1:00:15
- Okay, let's go to the first one here.
1:00:17
What would you say to someone that said?
1:00:18
- Every seal that writes a book
1:00:20
is violating the quiet professional moniker.
1:00:23
- Yeah, I hear that from time to time, obviously.
1:00:27
Free country, what can you do?
1:00:31
I'm not gonna modify my behavior
1:00:34
based on somebody who tweets something like that.
1:00:37
I'm gonna follow my passion in life,
1:00:38
my passion is writing.
1:00:39
I don't know about the other people,
1:00:40
I can only speak for myself,
1:00:42
but I'm gonna follow my passion in life
1:00:44
and not be dissuaded from doing so,
1:00:46
because someone thinks that seals shouldn't be allowed
1:00:48
to write books.
1:00:49
- All right, fair enough, next one here.
1:00:51
What would you say to someone that said,
1:00:52
"I don't care if my kids read or not."
1:00:55
- Oh, I don't know.
1:00:57
Ah, that's a, hello, I can't even,
1:01:00
I think I would probably just shake my head
1:01:04
and probably never have anything to do
1:01:05
with that person ever again.
1:01:07
Yeah, that person like that doesn't seem like
1:01:09
they would have value to anyone's life, it seems.
1:01:13
- Yes, you'd have to feel bad for their kids as well.
1:01:16
All right, next one here.
1:01:17
What would you say to someone that said,
1:01:18
"I hate all of the gear references in Jack Carr's books."
1:01:22
- Lucky for them, there are one or two other books
1:01:25
out there that they can choose from.
1:01:27
So, I would say, if you didn't like the last one,
1:01:30
it didn't like that you're in the last one,
1:01:31
do not read this next one.
1:01:32
I try to be as open as I can about those sorts of things.
1:01:37
So, do not read my next book.
1:01:40
- Hey, of all the crap you get,
1:01:42
that's the one that I understand the least,
1:01:43
just as a little quick aside.
1:01:45
Like, whenever I read your books
1:01:46
and you give me the detail on the brand of the glove
1:01:48
and the brand of the, you know, the, you know,
1:01:50
fixed blade knife that's in their pocket
1:01:52
or in their, you know, appendix carry position or whatever.
1:01:54
Like, I'm like, oh, I feel like I'm there now.
1:01:56
Like, I know what that looks like.
1:01:57
I know what that firearm feels like in my hand
1:01:59
'cause I've held it.
1:02:00
So, I love it, keep doing it, do it more.
1:02:01
Make them even more angry.
1:02:03
- Yeah, it's a very unnatural for me not to describe it
1:02:07
by name, just I couldn't, couldn't do it.
1:02:09
It seems like if you didn't describe it by name,
1:02:12
you don't know what you're doing
1:02:14
or you're afraid you're might gonna make a mistake
1:02:16
or maybe you googled Navy Seal knife
1:02:17
and you put that in.
1:02:19
You can't form like 1995, you put it in your last book
1:02:22
and it didn't, didn't really describe
1:02:24
a current character very well or I don't know.
1:02:26
I use these things as character development tools.
1:02:28
So, for me, they're all tools and it's very natural to use
1:02:30
'cause when I look at you, if I saw you walk onto a range
1:02:32
or whatever else, I'd be like, oh, okay.
1:02:34
I mean, it's striking for our pistol.
1:02:35
Cadets, holster, okay, almond shoes, cool pants.
1:02:38
Okay, I got it.
1:02:39
Like it tells me something or if somebody walks on
1:02:41
with a leather holster and a cotton lock 1911
1:02:44
and a leather belt and maybe they're a little older
1:02:47
and they got, you know, a trucker hat on,
1:02:49
like that tells me something a little bit about them
1:02:51
as well, maybe it's just being better and on it,
1:02:53
whatever it is, like it tells me something about them
1:02:55
and their history level of training, competency,
1:02:58
all of those things.
1:02:59
So, it lets me make snap judgments on people
1:03:01
based on a snapshot.
1:03:03
- Yeah, absolutely.
1:03:04
Well, let's keep this lightning around going.
1:03:05
Here we go with the next one.
1:03:06
What would you say to someone that said,
1:03:08
Jack Carr is a poor man's Tom Clancy.
1:03:11
- Hey, I'll take it.
1:03:12
- That's not as big of a dig as people might think.
1:03:16
That's a pretty darn compliment if you think about it.
1:03:18
- Hey, Matt, if someone's comparing you to Tom Clancy,
1:03:20
hey, that's a good day.
1:03:22
- All right, next one here.
1:03:22
What would you say to someone that said,
1:03:24
I don't need to read, I have a television.
1:03:26
- Yeah, I mean, hey, this is once again,
1:03:30
different strokes, different folks, enjoy.
1:03:32
- All right, a few more here.
1:03:33
What would you say to someone that said,
1:03:35
James Reese is starting to feel like Superman
1:03:38
and more than a real man?
1:03:39
- I don't know, I don't get that very often.
1:03:42
And it was something that I thought about going into this
1:03:45
because that does happen with recurring characters,
1:03:47
especially if you're going on the book, maybe 20,
1:03:49
you know, that sort of a thing.
1:03:51
So I haven't heard that very often,
1:03:53
but I think the way that I've not really avoided it
1:03:57
because I'm not really avoiding it,
1:03:58
I'm just thinking about it,
1:04:00
is that James Reese is on a journey.
1:04:03
We're all on a journey.
1:04:04
It's not the same guy with the same skillset
1:04:06
just dropped into a different situation every book
1:04:08
that he has to figure out.
1:04:09
He's questioning things, he's moving forward,
1:04:12
he's adapting, he's evolving, hopefully he's learning,
1:04:14
hopefully he's getting wiser.
1:04:16
He's not just stagnant at age 42,
1:04:19
although I am going to age him very slowly.
1:04:21
That's my plan anyway.
1:04:23
But it's not just the same guy every book
1:04:24
just dropped in a new situation.
1:04:26
And now he has to go kill somebody in China
1:04:28
or now Russia or now Africa or now Columbia or whatever it is.
1:04:31
So I think that's why he's resonated,
1:04:35
he's become one of the reasons,
1:04:37
he's because we're all on a journey.
1:04:38
And hopefully we're all learning,
1:04:39
hopefully we're all adapting,
1:04:40
hopefully we're all getting better,
1:04:42
hopefully we're all getting wiser.
1:04:44
So for him to be on a journey as well throughout the books,
1:04:47
I think humanizes him more than characters
1:04:50
that are compared to Superman.
1:04:53
- Absolutely, all right, a couple more left
1:04:54
and then we'll get you out of here.
1:04:55
What would you say to someone that said,
1:04:56
Jack Card needs to write a non-fiction book?
1:05:00
- Well, I'm not gonna write a non-fiction book
1:05:02
about like my time in the SEAL teams.
1:05:03
Like there's plenty of books out there like that.
1:05:06
Wonderful, but that's not my,
1:05:08
I didn't do anything near what some of these guys have done
1:05:12
that have written about their experiences.
1:05:15
I think those books are important
1:05:16
because especially today,
1:05:17
because kids need heroes today.
1:05:19
So that person in sixth grade, seventh grade,
1:05:20
eighth grade, high school,
1:05:21
there's so many inputs that are coming in
1:05:24
to have someone like, read someone's story
1:05:27
about what they did in Iraq or Afghanistan
1:05:30
or a mission that they were on
1:05:31
or whatever it might be that maybe inspires
1:05:33
those kids to either join the military
1:05:35
or to think maybe through some of those rights
1:05:38
that we talked about earlier,
1:05:39
why we have them, what was sacrificed
1:05:41
so that we do have these rights in this country.
1:05:43
So I think that there is so much benefit
1:05:46
and so much value to those books.
1:05:49
They're also part of first person accounts
1:05:50
that will be going forward.
1:05:51
The historians will look at not as a single source
1:05:54
for something, but as that person's perspective.
1:05:57
So for people to get all crazy about those books,
1:06:00
like maybe spend your time doing something productive
1:06:04
and worried about what someone else wrote
1:06:06
about their perspective.
1:06:07
And a lot of times those books,
1:06:08
I think are the very therapeutic,
1:06:09
like mine are the amount of fiction,
1:06:11
but it's very therapeutic to write.
1:06:13
What was that, where did I even go in with that?
1:06:16
What was the question?
1:06:17
- Oh, I just asked, what would you say to someone
1:06:19
that said you need to write a nonfiction book?
1:06:21
'Cause I was wondering if you would write one
1:06:23
about your time in the SEAL teams
1:06:24
or if you found a pocket of history
1:06:26
during your research for one of your novels
1:06:28
that was so interesting that you decided
1:06:29
to almost write like a history,
1:06:32
a historical account of this type of thing.
1:06:33
I didn't know if that was in your wheelhouse.
1:06:35
- That is on my list, something like that.
1:06:37
So we'll see if I get to it,
1:06:39
that's part of getting more organized,
1:06:41
like freeing up my time to explore other projects,
1:06:44
getting more efficient, that sort of thing.
1:06:46
So I definitely have a lot of ideas on the history front
1:06:50
that I'd like to explore,
1:06:51
but I certainly not gonna write about my time
1:06:53
in Iraq or Afghanistan.
1:06:54
I mean, I talk about it as it comes up naturally
1:06:56
and is appropriate and that sort of a thing,
1:06:58
but it certainly informs my writing, that's for sure.
1:07:01
But I don't need to write day.
1:07:03
There I was type of a book.
1:07:05
- Okay, gotcha.
1:07:05
Well, last question of the day, Jack.
1:07:07
What would you say to someone that said,
1:07:08
"Jack Carr is my favorite fiction writer alive."
1:07:11
- Oh man, gosh, just thank you.
1:07:14
And that's really how I use social media for the most part
1:07:18
is to say thank you.
1:07:19
I still try to, and my wife's sleeping next to me,
1:07:21
I try to like go and hit that heart button
1:07:23
for people that have said, hey, I got the book.
1:07:26
I loved it, I told a friend.
1:07:27
I tried to thank them still
1:07:29
and say, it's getting harder and harder to do that,
1:07:31
but I sincerely appreciate everybody
1:07:33
who took a risk on me as any author
1:07:35
and they told a friend whether that was around a water cooler
1:07:38
or a smoke break or whether it was on social channels
1:07:41
and whether they have one follower, two followers
1:07:43
or 35 million or anything in between.
1:07:46
I sincerely appreciate each and every person
1:07:48
that has done that and just means the world to me.
1:07:51
- Well, for my money, it's you and Stephen Pressfield.
1:07:54
Y'all are my two guys to where I,
1:07:55
for a guy that reads, I mean, last year I read,
1:07:57
I think 45 books, which is a lot more than some people,
1:08:00
but not quite as many as another people.
1:08:01
Like, I think two or three of those were fiction
1:08:04
and one was from you and one was from Pressfield.
1:08:06
And so that's kind of like my niche there.
1:08:09
So I can always make time for a Jack Car novel,
1:08:11
but Jack, I appreciate you letting us get into all
1:08:13
that detail, but that's all for me.
1:08:14
Is there anything else you want to get off your chest?
1:08:16
- No, I sincerely appreciate that.
1:08:17
That's some rare air up there with Stephen Pressfield.
1:08:19
He's a fantastic, obviously author
1:08:22
and then human being as well.
1:08:24
- Absolutely, well, Jack Car,
1:08:25
thank you for coming back on Undaunted Life,
1:08:27
a man's podcast.
1:08:28
- Aw, thank you for having me.
1:08:29
You take care out there.
1:08:31
- There you go, guys.
1:08:31
I hope you enjoyed my time with Jack Car,
1:08:33
but before we let you go,
1:08:34
we are going to do a quick resilience boost.
1:08:35
Add Undaunted Life or Mission is equipping
1:08:37
men to push back darkness with content
1:08:38
that for just spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
1:08:41
So here are the links I've got for you today.
1:08:42
I've got a link to where you can go buy your copy
1:08:44
of In the Blood.
1:08:45
Also, I've got a link to Jack's website.
1:08:47
So if you want to link to his social
1:08:48
or any of his stuff for his podcast or all that,
1:08:50
you can find all of that there.
1:08:52
I've also got a link to his first appearance
1:08:53
on Undaunted Life, a man's podcast that was episode 168.
1:08:56
And also the article that we're talking about there
1:08:59
in the episode from Town Hall,
1:09:00
called Our Obligation to Fight.
1:09:02
That is in the show notes as well,
1:09:03
so you can check that out.
1:09:04
All right, guys, thanks so much for listening to this episode.
1:09:05
We do appreciate it.
1:09:06
Wherever you're listening to this,
1:09:07
please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five-star view.
1:09:11
If you don't want to come speak live at your event
1:09:12
or on your podcast,
1:09:13
just shoot me an email to info@undaunted.life.
1:09:16
That's i-n-f-o, @ndaunted.life.
1:09:18
You can also follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook
1:09:20
and check out our website for everything else,
1:09:21
including how to donate to keep more content
1:09:23
like this coming your way.
1:09:24
Just go to www.undaunted.life.
1:09:27
And as always, we want to thank the band August Burns Red
1:09:29
for allowing us to use their music for our content.
1:09:32
The music on this podcast is our song Cutting the Ties,
1:09:34
which is off their 10th anniversary
1:09:36
re-recording of their album Leveler.
1:09:38
The links are in the description.
1:09:39
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
1:09:41
Remember, keep pushing back darkness,
1:09:44
keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience,
1:09:48
keep seeking the Lion of Judah.
1:09:52
No, I don't feel it, there's a heart in it.
1:09:56
I know you want, it's a sign.
1:10:00
You may stand as a virtue.
1:10:04
You will be revived.
1:10:21
[BLANK_AUDIO]