[music] [music] >> This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. [music] I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it. Well, Matt and I keep trying to get you to stay in Texas and yet you keep this mozing your way on up to Oklahoma. So, I don't know what that's about, but welcome again to the great state of Oklahoma. Well, I think what brought me this time was the rut, even though they weren't really rutting. Not really this time, but hey, you are [clears throat] actually part of like a dream that Adam has had for like years cuz I remember like 3 or 4 years ago, this was like before we actually had a legit studio, he was just like, "Hey, what if we like brought microphones out to the land and like recorded a podcast?" And I'm I mean I mean I'm obviously very technologically inclined. I'm very good at all that. Like I know how all the buttons work. I know how all this stuff is currently working. You set all this up yourself. You had no help. Like there's nobody on the other side of the fire at all. And so, I was just like in my head I'm like, I I have no idea how to do that unless I moved everything from my house to here and like didn't unplug anything. And so, I was like, "Great idea, Adam. No idea how to pull it off." And so, I just but then you just persisted, right? Yeah, these are two You're like Elizabeth Warren. These are two >> [laughter] >> These are These are two things that Kyle is specifically good at. And I'm wondering if we could possibly rank Kyle's hunting skill with his technological skill. So, let's go with hunting first. Well, I think the first thing I think you have to get up in the morning and go. You can't just stay in your warm bed. You have to have the courage. >> That's obviously step one. >> The resilience. >> Right. Right. [snorts] The masculinity, if you will. I mean, this has been a hard hunt. Really hard. >> been freezing. It's been difficult. And so, how many days have we been out at, Matt? I mean, you and I or the three of us? Cuz we're going to have to do some subtraction if we add Kyle to this. So, this is already falling off the rails a little bit here because, you know, >> I thought that you brought up the land and hunting. Everybody knows and I've said this from the beginning. Just listen to your body and don't push it. Like that's like my thing. Like physically don't push yourself past your limits. Like, you know, Waking up at 5:30, that's it is difficult, Kyle. I know. How many times have you and I hunted together? The bed was warm. How many times have I slept in? Have we hunted together? Yes. Yeah. You usually sleep in. It's a pretty regular occurrence. See, I didn't know this. I just thought it was a one-off. >> Okay, this is actually the first time he ever did it. So, >> so it is a one-off. >> All right, that's what I thought, but There's going to be a jiu-jitsu tournament immediately following this this campfire discussion. There's What are we calling this? Do we ever decide? >> know who's I need somebody to stop the timer on how long it took Kyle to bring up BJJ. Yeah. Yeah, that was a quick shift. It was like hunting a I literally thought we wouldn't get in 60 seconds. Right. That's true. >> So, that we're like the 5-minute mark. >> I've been very clear. I'm a walking billboard for four things. The gospel of Jesus, jiu-jitsu, eating red meat, and Christian metal. Pro ginger. Pro ginger. You know. You got to throw that in there. But you're here, so well, you know, well, the discussion we were having before we started rolling, y'all said you didn't believe that I was a ginger, which is like one of the weirdest things that anyone has ever said to me. Like I've been faking it this whole time? >> You use it to your advantage all the time. Really? When is it ever an advantage? >> Every time Every time I'm in the sun, disadvantage. Right. [laughter] Every time someone's like, "Ooh, I'm looking for someone attractive to date." Disadvantage. Right? But look at your beard, like your perfectly groomed red beard and that's kind of like your sig your Well, you know, and we have a ginger that's off screen as well. He's currently being sunburned by the fire. And so, like that's >> him. He was putting some cream on. Yeah. See, that's the thing that people like don't really take into account is like when they just get a ginger baby, they're like the amount of sunscreen investment over the 18 years just to get that kid to adulthood is it's significant. I've I've heard that SPF 15 is just as good as SPF 50. Is that true? Uh ginger, it might as well be I might as well rub water on my skin as opposed to like SPF 15. Like that doesn't do anything. think sunscreens like a conspiracy? Like did you see like cancer's gone up since they introduced sunscreen? I've seen this. Wait a minute. This is a joke? No, this is true. Wait, do you haven't read this? This feels very jokey. Cuz 100%. It was on Canada's website. Leave it in the comments. Go ahead and put the links. I've spent roughly 8% of my life applying sunscreen to my body. And so, They There are studies now that show that the there's been a massive increase in skin cancer since the introduction of sunscreen. True. Fact check fact Fact check me. Yeah, I don't know I don't know how how I feel about that. >> I don't Yeah. >> Wait, so what are we just not supposed to wear sunscreen? I I think you're supposed to be in the sun responsibly. Yeah, the I think the problem is is we're >> [laughter] >> we're indoors more than we were we were ever meant to be. So, we're constantly indoors. We're not getting, you know, the proper amount of vitamin D and someone in the comments is going to flame me because vitamin D probably has nothing to do with it, but that's okay. I don't care. Oh, does it? I think that's part of the part of the whole thing. Yeah, no vitamin D. So, you're supposed You're supposed to get like normal vitamin D, not like pill form. So, because we're indoors all the time on our freaking iPhones, we're not out getting the vitamin D that we should, getting the natural resistance to the sun that we should so that like sun exposure shouldn't be that big of a deal, but because we're in inside all the time, it is a big deal and now we have to cover our translucent skin. Some is translucent more than others. I mean, I don't know why you looked at me because apparently I'm a fake ginger. So, I don't know what that is. Yeah. When we accused you of being a fake ginger [laughter] you offered to take off your shirt and let us see your lungs. Which we immediately said yes. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, you can see directly through Which it's not that kind of hunting trip. >> You know, I can we I can just be I can just be naked for the rest of the for the rest of this. I mean, that's what you wanted to do. You said, "Hey guys, wouldn't it be funny if we just started out in our underwear?" You offered that. We startling. I feel like I feel like I'll put me in a corner and when I'm put in a corner, I get naked. And that's good Well, we will That's good and I'll put a middle note of that. Have you not [clears throat] seen those videos of those guys that they try to like get people to fight them in public and then they just strip down to like a thong? I have not Our algorithm must be very different. I've >> [laughter] >> never seen one of those. Well, you know, fact check true as well, but like I just I think, you know, are you going to fight a guy in a thong? I'm not. I mean, what's How big is the guy? How big a guy is he? What did he say beforehand? What color is the thong? Yes. Yeah. All those things are important before I answer this question. Is this like a comedy tour? What are we doing? I don't know, but speaking of Nephilim, so what exactly >> me get let me get us We'll get back to the Nephilim. Okay, we'll put a pin in that. >> Okay, so normally on Kyle's show, he always does some type of stupid bit at the very beginning. He was like, "Hey guys, I got some smelling salts. Let's smell the smelling salts." Or "Hey guys, It's not a stupid bit. It's a setup. All right? We're in the entertainment industry. Hello. >> Okay, well, let's do some entertainment here. And so, uh you've also required me to eat what? Like seven different types of uh Christmas tree Christmas tree cakes. So, I got to something I got [clears throat] to something a little special here, okay? I hope you guys like cheese because we got three different types of cheese here. So, this cheese is habanero and jalapeno. Who wants that? Habanero and jalapeno. We're going to We're going to try that. Okay. Okay. And then we're also going to try What do we got here? This is bacon and horseradish. Okay. Oh, you can have that one, Matt. That one's for you. And then let's see. Uh jalapeno and cayenne. So, jalapeno and cayenne's for me. >> That's yours That's going to That's going to be Okay, you can hold that one, Matt. But you got to hold that one. Why are we doing this? Because we're going to each try a bite of the cheese and then we're going to rank it and see which one's the best. It's like lukewarm. Check out this man knife. Oh, okay. All right. Yeah, that's it. Here, you open them all up. You open them all up cuz I got to hold my microphone. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, the host of the show's got to open all the cheese. Okay, so have you ever done smelling salts before? Uh I have. Did you have to do them on Kyle's show? No, I wouldn't have, but he's made me do some other dumb things. What did he make you do? I had to play that game where you put the thing in your mouth where you can't talk and like What's that What's that called, Kyle? That's uh >> [laughter] >> I think what that's called is I uh >> [laughter] >> Holding a knife, a cigar, and some cheese. I don't know what that's called, Adam. How about you look it up with your free hand? >> Well, you're the one who came up with the dumb game. Is this the Is this the dumbest game we've had to do uh on the show? Let's eat cheese game. Yeah, it's pretty stupid. >> [laughter] >> I mean, this is so absurd. Okay, well, we can skip the cheese if you think we should skip the cheese, but I'm curious. >> [laughter] >> I just all I really wanted to do was just to make Kyle mad. Kyle's the veins are coming out of his translucent forehead right now. >> [laughter] >> It's okay. Just Forget Forget the cheese. We'll eat the cheese. Oh. We're leaning in. We're leaning in at this point. This podcast could be like 4 hours long. Okay, so let's let's go ahead and talk about hunting. We're going to just transfer into hunting. So, what's the most important thing when it comes to hunting and you're using a firearm? Should you have firearm safety? Um absolute like if if you were asking me if you brought your rifle into the house, should you not have a round chambered and a full magazine in, I would say, "Yeah, you learn that in the Boy Scouts." >> like never one. Like first patch. So, if you were close to somebody who possibly left a hot round in the chamber of a cabin, I mean, would you like continue to hunt with that person or >> I'm just going to head on a swivel is what I've got to cuz I don't know when he might Yeah. let a round fly without knowing it. >> Have you ever known somebody to to do that? >> Uh Kyle was the first. Kyle was the first. Yeah. >> This is my safety. Okay. >> [laughter] >> All right. I think it's you're supposed to put that up in your mind. I think we're just going to we're just going to say that. I mean, I don't know exactly what the problem is with that because it's a bunch of adults here, no kids running around. Like it's a hot round in the cabin. Why not? You don't These hogs here in Oklahoma, they are on another They'll break and enter. I mean, all the guys from from Florida Florida film crew is like, do we have any guns? What if the coyotes come and get us? Right? They have dinosaurs that roam the streets and they're worried about nature dogs. And it's like, what exactly are we supposed to do? All right, have we Yeah, I'm not trying that horseradish nonsense. This is the jalapeno cayenne. Yeah, I already got a bite of that. Pretty good. You do that one? Cheese, we all part of the cheese thing? All right, hey, poke the arrow. This was all me. Oh, that's not hot enough. It says cayenne, but there's no real flavor to this. Who is this? This is habanero jalapeno. That's got a little little kick. Deets and Watson. Artisan cheeses. Okay. Jalapeno and cayenne. I don't know if Deets and Watson is still the owner of that. The problem is is we have all all of my little setups on the forging table. There's like a transition of some kind. How do we transition away from the warm cheese? Well, I was trying to transition over to hunting in the live round that you left in your chamber Yeah. And which you didn't even know about until right now cuz we've been sitting on that for you all day. No, I mean, I knew about it because that's my rifle and I was ready to go. Got to be ready to go at all times. Kind of like the one time when you made me deaf in my left ear because you're like, there's hogs at the at THE FEEDER RIGHT NOW. AND SO we go running out and I've got your scar and I just let off this round and like my left ear has been ringing for the last 5 years because of that. So, wear your ear protection, kids. I don't know what camera I'm supposed to look at. That's my camera. Thank you. I think this is where I get confused is you were ready to go and you slept in. So, you had a live round in your rifle and a full magazine. Like you were ready to go, but you won't go. You all left this morning. Who is going to defend the house? Oh, makes sense. Oh, that's a good point. Except we gave the guys from Jacksonville your rifle. So, yeah. Well, they chose not Well, yeah, I mean, if anyone breaks into my house, I'm going to scooting all the way over to them. We don't need to bring those guys in. They're sweet guys. Well, I mean, they are sweet guys, but they let some sweet animals with sweet faces just walk on. And I don't know what that's all about. I think if someone was in the blind with them and said you should shoot, they would have. Well, Kyle, some people care about hunting laws. See, there's these things called hunting laws that you're supposed to follow. Wait, there's laws around this? There are laws and there's actually I thought you were just supposed to shoot indiscriminately. That's what I've heard. Have you ever broken any hunting laws? Not that I can recall. I mean, I do remember a guy that shot two bobcats in 5 seconds and it wasn't bobcat season. I don't know what that guy's all about, but I'm pretty sure he just put them in the freezer and took them to the taxidermist a week later. But we won't name that guy. He might be on this property. That guy sounds like a loser. Almost like a loser like somebody who would shoot a cow elk out of season. What's wrong with that? Speaking of Nephilim. I still I just have cheese on my lap that I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I dropped my cigar. Oh, you dropped your cigar. That's Okay, but but he didn't drop the cheese. He kept the cheese. You know, kept the cheese All right, what was that orange one? The orange one was better. This one Let's go Deets and Watson habanero and jalapeno. That's got some heat to it. That one was pretty good. It's It wasn't very hot. That one's pretty good. And then jalapeno and cayenne, not so much. That's why I'm going to let you just put those back in your jacket. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, you can but yeah, good good try. Okay, I think it was good. Yeah. I thought so. You did try to do my intro for my show once, too. I don't know what the chances were were of that, but I think you made me mad and then I'd hit record and just sat there. Yeah, and then I was like, this is [laughter] Kyle. This is Matt. This is Adam. Let's get into it. It just As long as you say it aggressively, it doesn't matter what you say. I have proven that like at this point. Same thing with Matt. He He just yells his sermons and then whispers and then yells. I started I start Tinder. Right. You know, listening to your sermons while driving on the highway is one of the more frustrating experiences because you take the roller coaster of yelling and tenderness. And so you're just constantly having to like bring it down. It should be pretty compressed. Shouldn't be that bad. Does anybody Does anybody ever come up to you like, Matt, what Why are you so angry? Can you Can you [laughter] [clears throat] just like But I would like to start since you're the most astute of the Bible scholars amongst us, I think it would probably be most appropriate if you kind of gave us How about you give us the classical doctrine position on Nephilim and then we can get into what some people have Well, the Nephilim are a clear reading of the text. It's the They're these demonic creatures that find the women of Earth to be attractive and they have sex with them and then the Nephilim are born. They're like half-breed human spirit realm creature and they They were considered the giants. That's the That's like bottom shelf best I can do. So, is that So, Nephilim would the giants of Gath be downstream of Nephilim Nephilim? Most scholars are going to agree that the giants descend from. So, how How big would a giant from Gath be? So, how How big was Goliath? We think in 10 ft, 11 ft? Yeah, I'm I'm an outlier here. I'm I'm going to I think what Joel Mudimbe's the work he's done in this space is pretty brilliant. He He was PhD with Heiser and he thinks Goliath was probably more like 7 ft, which would have been ginormous in the ancient world that the average Israelites, you know, 5 5 5 6. So, a 7-footer would have been 10 ft to people our size. So, it's kind of like when you're standing next to Kyle. Similar. Kyle's You're what? 5 6? On a good day. When I wear my pumps. But yeah, hey, you know what? It's not the size of the dog in the fight. I've heard, you know? But hey, 5 5 10 is a respectable height. That's what I tell myself. It's It's a not short. That's about as good as you can be for a 5 10. It's not preposterously short. Yeah, I'm not saying you're tall. I'm just saying you're not short. Yeah, okay. Giants, you know, giants with all of your Yeah, that that's the Nephilim. As simple as I can make it. But I'm not the expert. There are experts. I'm I'm not one. So, So, have you ever seen like AI like trying to explain why the the pyramid how the pyramids were made? Do you know what the AI defaults to? No. Giants. Really? But we're not talking like 7 ft giants. Like the AI defaults to cuz you know how they talk about how Yeah, how big the the stones were and how far the quarry was that they moved them from and how there's no ramp long enough that you could build and there's not enough human suffering you could throw at it to move it all. But the the AI has made like these depictions of literally like giant giants. Like, you know, holding these stones on either shoulder. And I don't know, there's Snarky Ham. It's a different guy with glasses that does a lot of like younger stuff. He's talked about how all over the world they have found giant human bones, but that nobody wants to acknowledge that they're real human bones or whatever. And then there's Then there are people that think that the giants still exist. Not like Bigfoot exists, but that there are still like giants roaming the planet, that there are still dinosaurs roaming the planet. Like there was no extinction event. Giant like Is it still human or No, cuz like all the AIs these these giants are like 15, 20 ft tall. They're like huge, huge. So, if they still existed, where What How would I not see Yeah, I mean, Google Earth could have gave us an app. Well, if we believe in all the Candace Owens conspiracy theories, the Jews probably know. There was probably an Egyptian plane that was part of it. I mean, I'm just saying. If I get fired, Kyle. What? For what? Cuz I said Jews? No, I mean, just keep going. Just Just you've you've broken the Let's lean in. No, we don't we don't have to lean in. Lean in. >> [snorts] >> We don't have to lean in entirely. But no, like that's the one thing I don't really know what to do with that because, you know, we've I get told all the time that I need to have a young earth old earth debate on the show and I'm just so uninterested in the topic because it can't be proven one way or another. And Which way do you feel? I feel like it's old. Um I just I don't buy into the It's given the appearance of age. That that argument. And there's a book called Genesis in the Big Bang. I don't know if you've ever read that, but chapter two of that book like I like I'm not smart enough to read that book, but I've tried multiple times. But in chapter two it talks about how depending upon where you're looking at time, the answer might be correct. That time back in the day wasn't in the same way that time is being recorded now. And so it's like if someone says the earth is 6,000 years old, technically correct, but if they say it's billions of years old, technically also correct. And it gets into how wavelengths travel through space like in the in What's the What's the Matthew McConaughey movie that I just watched recently? Interstellar. So, it's kind of like Interstellar. Like time is a little bit different. There's a different dimension or something. Yeah, so like time on Relativity, right? That's what we're talking about. Yeah. Time on Jupiter is not the same as time on the planet. Not just in terms of rotation and, you know, going around the sun and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, I just I'm just not really that interested in the topic because I feel like it's such a tertiary thing that doesn't change doesn't change the gospel. It doesn't change I I don't know. I just don't like being told because I'm more old earth that I don't believe in the sovereignty of God and scripture. Like that's the hard part. Do you feel like if you were to say that it's old earth, does that diminish the incredibleness of what God could have done and just created created earth and it's and it just went or is I mean I've heard your answer on it. So Yeah no. What? I don't. My whole take is the Hebrew little phrase in the beginning. It's pulling from a Hebrew word called reshit. And it's only used in one other place in the scriptures to describe the early reign of a king. So in the beginning is this indiscriminate amount of time that like we don't know. What what does that mean? Like in the beginning of this king's reign? How how many years was that? What what was And and so it's the only two places in the scripture reshit is used. So I I think I'm with Kyle. I think there are too many other things that are problematic with how evangelicals think about the kingdom of God and how they walk in it that to me this can get that this can be distracting stuff. Like what Who's the last person you told about Jesus? I'm not saying this stuff doesn't matter. I'm saying if this is your thing and like you're making scrolls in your garage and you haven't shared the gospel with anybody, you're not prayer walking your neighborhood, you're not making disciples, then I don't I don't want to feed that thing in you. Mhm. I don't want to have that conversation with you. Um so that I that's where I tend to land on it. I I've got Yeah, I think reshit is this big [clears throat] old word and I don't know. Mhm. I I'm not I don't think Moses was handing us a science book in Genesis 1 and 2. I don't think that was his intent. I don't think that was what he was trying to get across. I don't think that was God was trying to get across to us. He's not going hey, I'm going to compact all the laws of science in these two chapters. Good luck. >> Yeah, it's not a taxonomy textbook. But like I remember John Lennox um he talked about this. He he came on my show. Uh this would have been several years ago. I can't remember the exact reference, but I think he was saying we don't know how much time uh so from Genesis 1 to to 3 like we don't know how much time that was. So in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void and darkness was over the face of the deep and the spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. And God said, let there be light and there was light. And so it's like but how much time was there during that that process? And and so I guess where I land is it's like okay, could God have done it in six literal 24-hour days as we see 24-hour days in modernity? Oh, yeah. >> Absolutely. Of course. Could he have created everything with age? Could he have whatever? But when people say, you know, when they start getting into the dinosaurs never actually existed, uh their bones were put into the earth to test our faith and he created Adam with age, so why couldn't he create the earth with age? But it's that literalist interpretation of scripture. And again, if you hold to this position, great. I don't care. But like if you read every scripture in the Bible literally, then Jesus wasn't a man, he was a vine. Mhm. Because John 15 said he was a vine. And he he's a door that we're supposed to knock on. So it's like where, you know that that's how literal are we going to take this? Because again, it's like Bible 101 that this is a collection of different types of writing. There's historical writing, there's poetry, there's apocalyptic literature, there's there's all kinds of different styles. Yeah. >> There's all kinds of different styles of writing. And so it's like why would you think that when Moses is writing this down that this was like a shot for shot retake of what happened in the beginning? So if it comes down to old earth and we start talking about evolution, does that mean then we're conceding that microevolution is probably true and maybe macroevolution is not a thing? I don't know how you argue that microevolution isn't true. I agree. But I think you you've got to just like turn off your brain to believe that. Mhm. But certainly we would say we we did not come from monkeys. >> Yeah. We were made in the image of God. But but certainly microevolution is I mean we we see it all the time. Yeah, and you you mentioned evangelicals and I feel like that's nine times out of 10 that's that's why they don't like the old earth theory because then they think oh well then you're going to go down to Darwin and you're going to say if if that's the case, then how do you defeat that you know, we came from monkeys. And so I think the micro versus macro thing always made sense to me. >> Well, somebody I've heard someone describe this because you know, I've heard William Lane Craig just talk about um how Genesis is mytho-history and some of those things and people don't really even like that verbage. But there are certain people that think that we didn't evolve from you know, monkeys or from chimps in the way depicted in the the picture. They're like but we do have to have an initial common ancestor. And so there are people that were like the ruach of God was breathed into Adam chimp-like figure, Eve chimp-like figure. And so they try to go that route, but then it dispels with the no, that Adam was created from the earth and then placed into the garden and then he was put into a deep sleep and then Eve was created from him and then but even genetically speaking, everyone knows like that we do have a common ancestor that comes from a single pair. But that that's where I like when people start trying to force This is where I I land with the the young earth people. When people try to force like an atheistic, you know, scientific explanation for for everything and they kind of like try to mold the Bible in and around it. It's like yeah, I don't think that's a good idea. But I don't think that Genesis is a math problem where it's just like oh, we just add up all these genealogies and then it gets to this and you know, I went and saw a big boat in Kentucky and so the earth is young. I've heard that boat is pretty cool. Have you been there? No, I I'd love to see it. Like I want to actually want to see the one in Turkey though where they think, you know The actual like the actual ark. That's ridiculous. There's no way that's true. Potentially, yeah. I mean I know what the ark was. >> Adam, calm down, bro. You came hard there. >> Man, you're How old I mean how could the wood the wood is still viable to where you could >> No, no, but they're like it's just it's like >> It's go for I don't know what that is. >> I'm just kidding. That's the old song Sunday school song. Okay. I missed it, too. I didn't know >> I grew up heathen. You seem like you know a lot about this, but could tell me more about it cuz I've always just completely dismissed this dismissed it as ridiculous. >> it's like I don't think there's any wood left in that area. It's just like literally like the satellite photo is like >> I've seen that. there's, you know, a boat-like figure that is in that shape and size that would have settled there. And then when people talk about So like I'm I'm from Southwest Oklahoma, so there's the Wichita Mountains down there, which is really cute because they're like kind of like glorified hills. But if you talk to like I don't know if they would be evolutionary archeol- I don't know what they would be considered. They said at one point the Wichita mountain range was higher than the Himalayas. But over time with erosion and the moving of the tectonic plates or whatever, like it it kind of changed. And so it could make sense that when the waters receded, that's where the boat landed cuz it wouldn't have had to have been in the highest place on earth. It just would have had to have been in a high place. Like that that's where the boat would have landed first. Someone told me that West Texas used to be like an ocean. Like the Permian Basin. That's why there's so much oil there. Have you ever heard that before? >> used to be an oasis. An o- an o- Oh, cuz it was all green. >> was all green. So I mean that wouldn't I mean you might know the West Texas geography a little better. >> No, I I mean I lived out there for seven or eight years, but nobody told me hey, this used to be an ocean. >> Yeah, I think they found like seashells out there. >> Okay. Like in the middle of the Permian Basin. Like how is that possible? They've they've found whale bones in the Sahara. The flood guy. >> There was a global flood once. So the flood it's interesting how many different religions and different cultures have a flood story. What is it? Epic of Gilgamesh has it. So so on the flood, the one thing that is that is an interesting theory that I have heard from young earth people that this isn't going to be the young earth old earth podcast, but like is with a global flood, it would have changed This is see, we're getting past my understanding of science, but it would have changed like the the carbon nitrogen whatever of the planet. So like that's why, you know, people in the Old Testament were hundreds of years old. Yeah, that the the canopy. Yeah, now there's human decay now and all that kind of stuff. >> That makes sense to me cuz it does say that the the heavens opened up. So I think there was something above us that used to be there. >> theory. Yeah, that's no longer there. That seems to make sense to me. Hey guys, real quick. You've probably heard the phrase ignorance is bliss, right? Well, some of you are ignorant about where the beef that you buy at the grocery store comes from and what it took to get to you. So that single package of grocery store ground beef can contain meat from over 100 different cows, sometimes from multiple countries. And if one of those cows was sick or was handled in some way, it's mixed right into your dinner. So most people don't realize that some ground beef at the store isn't just beef, either. It's scraps and trimmings chemically treated with ammonia to kill bacteria and then blended in to bulk up the weight of what you're buying. It's legal, it's cheap and it's on the plates of Americans all over the country, usually without the customer ever knowing. So even if you buy what you think is a nice roast or steak, it's been passed from feed lot to processor to packaging plant, handled by people who will never eat it and raised by farmers who will never see the end product. And in that journey, the cattle were likely fattened on hormone-packed feed, pumped full of antibiotics just to survive cramped feed lot conditions and processed alongside meat from hundreds of other animals. And by the time it hits your grill, you don't know whose cow was, what it was fed or what's actually in it. I don't want you or your family eating low-quality jacked-up beef. That's why I want you to use the official beef delivery partner of Undaunted Life, Primal Beef. So, Primal Beef is a cattle operation owned and operated by Shawn Glass. He's a retired Navy SEAL that partnered with Jocko Willink to launch Primal Beef. So, what makes Primal Beef different from other beef delivery companies? It's a combo of the following. All-American black Angus cattle and the beef comes from one farm and that's in Virginia, Shenandoah Valley. The beef is all natural, no hormones ever, no mRNA ever. 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But I guess like if if the language in in Genesis is not scientifically descriptive, saying the heavens opened up like there have been s- you know, storms that I've been in where it's like it seemed like the heaven opened up and it's almost like, you know, Forrest Gump in, you know, sometimes the rain come up from underneath us because it was raining and hitting the water which was right up underneath them. So, it seems more figure of speech to me as opposed to description of reality. Where would you rank Forrest Gump on your favorite movies? Is it like top five, top 10? >> 25 for sure. Yeah. Hard left turn in this conversation, but I'm okay with it. >> you mentioned Forrest Gump. >> right. Let's just Let's just go here then. Uh Mount Rushmore, a favorite movies. We need everyone's list, so give y'all a chance or I guess maybe we can do like a draft. No, that that gets too complicated. I'll I'll throw out three. I got three right off the bat. >> Let's go. Gladiator is on there. Shawshank Redemption is on there. This is not going to be on anybody else's list, but my number one is Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. I freaking love that movie. I've seen it a thousand times. You could see me as a kid, I used to dress up as Indy and I even had like this old tattered Bible that I would put in a satchel and a whip. What? Man. Where at the whip? Yes, and I had a whip and I was walking around third grade. But I also had like a little a little bolt action rifle. I know Indy didn't have a bolt action rifle. Man, I was just rocking that thing that. And then one of my other favorites is um Harry and the Hendersons. Never heard of that. Man, you've never seen Harry and the Hendersons? Dude, so John Lithgow. Yeah, it's a comedy, but it's about Bigfoot. Have y'all heard of that? Has anyone heard that movie? Okay, we got one. We got two thumbs up. Okay. I got a three over here. So, those are probably Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade and Harry and the Hendersons is probably the movies I've seen the most in my life. >> So, that's your Mount Rushmore? That That's probably it. Yep. I would I would go Godfather one. It's got to be there. I There was something about the cinematography of it and the storyline that I loved. Braveheart is Braveheart wanted me to be I mean, as soon as I saw it, I wanted to be the best man I could possibly be, wanted to be the smartest man, wanted to be an honorable man. Uh the gospel that already started that work, but that was a that that was a near religious experience for me. Um so, I'd throw Gladiator on mine also. Um but Godfather Braveheart Gladiator. Uh that'll be my three on my Mount Rushmore. It's a smaller mountain. Uh I'd put Interstellar up there. Okay. I love Interstellar. Okay. So, I watched Interstellar actually uh for the second time recently. So, I watched it in theaters and like I I feel like a lot of times I don't have the brain computing power to even like tie my shoes and so I'm trying to watch the third act of that film and I'm just like I you lost me. Um but if we're going back, all right. So, Gladiator is clearly on there. I'm going to go with The Sandlot. Oh. So, that one for me is Did y'all see that video where someone explained the gospel using the characters of The Sandlot? >> No. Okay. So, I'm not even going to try to explain it, but people out there on the internet land, wherever you're listening to this, like some guy on like TikTok or Instagram did that and I it was actually pretty good. Remind me, I'll show you afterwards. Um I'm trying to narrow it down cuz I'm a western guy, but I like more modern westerns. What about Quentin Tarantino? Cuz that's one I'm I'm Glorious [inaudible]. >> Inglourious Basterds. That's a top tenner for me. I don't know if I that's on my Rushmore. What I'll probably I'll put No Country for Old Men on my Mount Rushmore because and mainly because when I saw it in theaters, I didn't like it. Because I was like, you know, the the main protagonist was you know, killed killed, you know, off screen and you know, but but then later when you're like, wait, there's no music in this movie. And yet there's so much tension. And then you're like, wait, is Tommy Lee Jones' character the main character? And then um and then I'll go I'll here I'll I'll take an animated one since no one's done an animated. Give me Lion King. All right. >> Whoa. >> Now, as a father Hakuna Matata. All right. Now, here's the thing as a father. So, the boys, we haven't done like many movie nights or whatever yet cuz you know, they're kids, they don't have the the greatest uh attention span yet being five and three. But I mean, I saw The Lion King for the first time when I was five. And I don't know what it's like what it's been like for you guys, but um you know, we had kids kind of later um uh and we were I've I've seen a lot of things where it hits so much different as a father. Sure. >> So, like Apocalypto, which is a crazy good movie, Mel Gibson movie, I always thought it was awesome, but then the last time I watched it several times, I was getting choked up because I'm seeing what this dad is willing to do for his his wife and his kids. But like Lion King and the whole Mufasa thing, like that is that is about as near perfect a movie like as you can get and it was made for kids, which just shows you the slop that Disney puts in front of people now with their bearded ladies at Disney World and all those different things. It's like the the absolute slop from Lion King to what what, you know, they're putting out there now. But yeah, I'll put that one in my Mount Rushmore. >> We We were talking about Interstellar because I just watched it for the first time like two months ago and I was completely enthralled and it was the first time I've ever seen a movie where at the end of it where I was completely drenched in sweat. I was chain-smoking cigars and didn't even realize it. I was in the theater. I got to move to Oklahoma. I was I was in my shop by myself. Cass and my girls, they were gone. I was I was by myself. I was like, I'm going to go >> invited several of us out to the shop. >> And he he was going to be starting it at like 11:00. And like, bro, this is like a three-hour long movie. What are you But anyway, completely covered in sweat and I was like, I don't know I don't know what to do now. I it completely enthralled me and then I told you to go watch it again and you're like, man, it hits different once you have kids. >> And if you have daughters in particular cuz that's a daddy-daughter film. Yes. Right. And y'all y'all because you have two daughters, you have three daughters. That's where That's where it hit me cuz I just I just saw my little girl. I just saw the imagining being completely gone and watching her grow up and not being able to be there. So, the scene where Matthew McConaughey when this was after I forget what world they were in where they lost like 30 years or something and all that. And he's going to his screen to like watch uh you know, his son and he watches videos or whatever. Matthew McConaughey wanted to make sure that they did not show him like anything and Christopher Nolan wanted to make sure they didn't show him anything. So, he was reacting in the moment. So, when he's like sitting there like crying and all that, he's obviously thinking about his kids. And it was just like, oh my gosh. But yeah, I mean, when you don't have kids, you can >> soundtrack by Hans Hans Zimmer, too, is just stupid. Like time that song time, which is kind of thematic. I- it starts quiet. And I've heard I saw Hans Zimmer perform in Austin last year. Lauren got in for >> Oh god. How was that? But I I'm not kidding, man. I wept through that. It was the most beautiful I mean, full full choir and I mean, all the movies he's done. He It was like three hours long of just incredible. But he was explaining time. Like time that's the signature for that movie is it starts quiet like like when you're born and then it builds and then it's building like in your 20s and then it starts to slow down again and then it ends with that quiet little boom boom boom boom that it starts with. He kind of just does the arc of life with music. And so, man, I that that movie's up there. You know another one, you mentioned No Country for Old Men, but Hell or High Water. Dude, that is one of my I literally rented that movie so many times, Kelsey went and bought it at [clears throat] Walmart. She's like, you've spent like $30 renting this like Well, you know, all those little West Texas towns, I know because I was in Abilene for seven years and then that's where I started like traveling and preaching in Childress and and so, like some of those scenes, I'm like, oh my gosh, I've been there. So, that's why I mean, the story's great, but that that was the thing that got me is I know all those little towns. I don't know what it was about that movie that captured me so much cuz like the preview looked good, but I mean, we were at a stage where I mean, I wasn't watching a whole lot of movies and so, I would typically just rewatch movies I'd watched before. And there was just something about the story about what these brothers were willing to do for one another and there's, you know, the stick it to the man thing and the Jeff Bridges did such a good job uh you know, playing the Texas Ranger and things like that. But I mean, I literally just watched it over and over and over. Since we're out here by the campfire, I think we should talk about The Revenant for a little bit. What about The Revenant? How did that one hit? Uh I didn't I really wanted to love it. Oh, you didn't like it? You didn't like it? Hold on, guys. Calm down. What's happening? >> wrong with you? No, I didn't like it that much. >> What does this What does this tell us about Matt if he didn't like The Revenant? >> thought I was going to like it more than I did. Okay. It's fine. Let's explore this. So, what what did you not like? Can you Can you point to anything? I don't know. It was super dark. It was very I tend to like darker movies. >> I kept waiting for there to be some kind of redemption in it. Then it just Mhm. stayed there. Yeah. And so that's why >> You're like waiting around for 3 hours like just make some kind of turn here, bro. >> Yeah, it's funny story. And I and it doesn't. We were going to go watch a West Side Story live and I was like let's watch the movie. It's been a long time since I've watched it. And so we we watched the movie and of course it's it ends as a tragedy and when the movie's over you just feel terrible. Yeah. And I remember looking at my wife and be like oh it's a tragedy. I kind of forgot about that. And then you just feel terrible. That's why they don't make That's why they don't make tragedies anymore cuz you don't feel good when it's over. Well, for whatever reason like you know all kidding aside um I need the cutter. Yeah, I'll get you cutter. But like that that's probably why like I I can't stand the Marvel movies. Like I just don't like them. I don't want any part of it because like it's it's the same movie just redone with different characters. And like I don't want there to be a happy ending I guess. Like all the time cuz it's just like how often does life end in a happy ending? Like it's just not true. It's not super common and so like I just I I'd rather deal with the darkness. I love the Marvel I love the Marvel movies. I I'm okay with them until once Endgame was done I've been off the train since. >> That's where I am. I'm I'm been >> Like that to me was my kids growing up and my son being a little boy and all those movies were coming out and we would I'd go get him out of school when it came out on Fridays and we'd go watch it in IMAX and so but yeah I I loved the Marvel movies. See I'd be down with something like that but I mean that's why I feel like I was more drawn to cuz I'm not a real I was never a big comic book person or all that and I didn't you know really like Batman and I would That wasn't my thing but the Christopher Nolan Batman movies are like it's so much darker and like Heath Ledger's Joker was such a different Joker than anyone had ever seen. And so that's probably why I was more attracted to that and that's probably why I like the the grittier westerns like so there's a western it's in a it's Guy Pearce it's a Austra- one set in Australia it's called The Proposition. Almost no one's seen it. But it is it is just brutal and like I've told you I love Hostiles with Christian Bale. Oh man. >> But the first scene >> Can't can't get through it. Yeah, the first scene is so brutal. I was like I can't watch it. Oh so did you know how the first scene goes? Not at all. I just started I was like oh a western and then man I'm 15 minutes and I'm like I can't do it. I just literally can't watch it. It was rough. Uh did you watch American Primeval? Do you want to tell the story about how that got ruined? So my wife decided that she wanted to watch American Primeval and so we watched the first Yeah, I I mean so we watched the first two or three episodes and it got to the scene where everybody gets killed and the three guys get scalped. She's like you know what I think that's That was the first episode. Maybe it was the first episode. Okay, so I I think that was enough. I think that was enough. And so she's like I don't think I want to watch this anymore. And so me and Kyle and Ryan we decided to to go watch it in my shop and we made it what through episode three? No, we were going to watch So what we were going to do was on three consecutive Wednesdays we were going to watch episode one two then three four then five six. Kyle slept in. Yeah, Kyle did not sleep in. It's like a It's like a one time thing. Is this going to be the theme? Is this going to be the name of the show? Kyle slept in. Um >> [clears throat] >> but when Cass said that she wanted to watch it we had to hit pause and then all of our schedules went haywire and it's been like nine months and like we haven't got back together. Is that what you're doing? Sounds like it. >> What? We need to Cass's fault. >> You're blaming my wife? >> That's not what I said. Did you finish it? >> It sounds like what you said. No, we we only watched the first We only watched the first two episodes. So we didn't get to finish it so I I made a an alternative recommendation to go watch Open Range and Kyle said it was actually his favorite western of all time. Awful western. Okay. Horrible. I actually enjoyed it. >> It's great. I feel like if I had watched it when I was a kid I would have like liked it as an adult but it was like I mean it's up there with like Lord of the Rings bad. It was just so Oh, there it is. so bad. Like I just could not We don't have to >> Where do you Where do you rate Transformers? I don't like those either. Way low. I don't like them either. Listen, you're a Michael Bay guy, bro. Just just don't >> that. You keep I mean I like some uh Okay, so not a not a movie but it's on my Rushmore would be Band of Brothers. Agreed. Yeah. That's not a movie but yeah I I watch it at least once a year. Mhm. Well, I guess we could we could go TV shows. Yeah, like I mean Band of Brothers is always up there. I mean everyone says Breaking Bad. I'll tell you I've watched some shows that everyone said were awesome that it like I watched The Wire. Never got it and that's in like everyone's top three or whatever. Never really understood that but you know what I've never watched I've never watched I need to go back and watch Lonesome Dove but I wonder if I've I wonder if I just would hate it >> If you don't like Open Range you're not going to like Lonesome Dove. It's probably true. >> Is it too happy? It's Well, it's There's just a lot of storyline and lack of character development. >> of character development. It's just not a lot happening. You're you're going to be bored. If you're bored by Open Range Lonesome Dove you're going to want to get out of driving so. >> like I don't like mindless like you know shoot them up What's the one guy? John Wick. John Wick, yeah. Love John Wick. See I You're just like I don't I need a story. I need a plot. I don't like the shoot them up stuff. No, I love John Wick. Like a Jason Statham movie where it's like he's the same character but now I'm the bee keeper. And it's just like [laughter] okay, you were the plumber and then you were the mechanic and now you're you're the bee keeper. It's the same movie. Those are like airplane movies to me like I don't have any work to do. It's a John It's a Statham movie. >> So if we're talking about TV shows have we seen Stranger Things? I recently just started it. It's a little weird. >> It's weird. Strange. Upside down world. It's a little weird. I'm only on I'm on season two and I'm like I don't know about this. Can't really tell if I'm going to finish this or not. We did. We finished it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean I'm going to get some emails now about how I watch demonic stuff but it's fine. It's fine. Well, we live in an era where a band like Skillet can cover O Come O Come Emmanuel and then they tune their tar- their guitars down just a little bit and everyone's like oh Skillet's demonic now. So It's a little bit tangent, man. I've been thinking Skillet's demonic for a long time though. Yeah, I I mean you think that until you meet literally anyone from the band. >> No, they're amazing. >> They're the they're the best people. >> They are They are Jesus-loving, Bible-reading, faithful Jesus people. >> Do you think people say that just cuz they've got tattoos and they scream in a microphone? Well, they I mean then they would say that they would say that about Kyle then. You just described Kyle's show. >> Well, I mean uh Come on everyone knows I can't scream after my vocal cord surgeries but can you imagine if I could? If I had your vocal folds? Oh no. The Lord Lord was like I can't do that. I'm not going to like that. >> much. Yeah. I mean I was literally like I mean in between surgeries I mean I've I've talked about it on the show quite a bit but in between my two vocal cord surgeries I couldn't talk above a whisper. And you know I'm talking to you know my wife I'm talking to Adam I'm talking to different people and it's just kind of like what like what is Undaunted Life if I can't talk if I can't speak and you know is there a writing ministry? Is there something that can be done because you're literally sitting there having to reckon with like I will I don't have a voice and like my boys were young like three and one or something like that and I can't talk to them. Like I'm like miming to my boys what I want them to do and you know kids will just respond and do whatever you're doing. And so that's what James would start doing as opposed to saying like hey come here I got to show you something. He'd be like Man, I remember that period of time in your life, man, where it's like you're trying to get this thing to go. You're starting to climb the mountain and then man here comes this vocal surgery thing and it's like things are going good things are going good. That was a that was a tough one because that yeah you were just starting to hit starting to hit like your first single your first double things were going good. And then it's like where are we going to go from here? And it's like non-stop like the the more success that you have in the in the things that you do for your God's kingdom you're going to someone's they're going to continue to try to take you out. Uh I know I've seen heard Jovi say that over and over and over like you're going to be on the front lines non-stop so What's that tip of the spear concept where it's like if you're doing ministry Mhm. of of any kind or or king like actual like kingdom work when you're at the tip of the spear there's flaming arrows all the time and if one of the flaming arrows misses you it hits someone you love. Yeah. Right? And it can and it can hit your business it can hit someone [clears throat] else's business it can be health-wise. Like I was just talking to Dallas Jenkins on the show about you know during the filming of season it was filming of season five or six he talked about how his wife and his daughter were having like horrific medical things that have come up and you're thinking like okay like you know they're they're making a good living now they're seeing success and all that and it's again it just kind of goes to this idea that Christians they get this idea that they're entitled to a bunch of peace. Like like this like that's the transformation of the gospel is that they get to chill out. And I just I mean you've seen it being in vocational ministry for multiple decades. I just don't really get how people come to that conclusion. About like that's the life that they're owed. Yeah, well I think it's bad teaching and bad discipleship and I think the you know most of the texts that highlight that God is a warrior warrior is his name or that he he screams out in this barbaric yelp as he conquers his enemy those those have all kind of fallen out of favor. And and so they were replaced with you know the feathered hair super sweet compassion Tinkerbell Jesus. And so if you don't know oh man I'm you know C.S. Lewis I'm behind enemy lines then man this stuff's going to catch you off guard. And I man one of my favorite stories in the Bible is the seven sons of Sceva see Paul casting out demons and they want to try it. You know their dad's a a Jewish itinerant exorcist so they've been around this stuff so they find a demon-possessed guy and say, "In the name of Paul's God, Jesus Christ, we command you to come out." And the demon speaks to him and says, "I know Jesus and I've heard of Paul, but who are you?" And then he turns and he overpowers them. And it always stood out to me that they had heard of Paul. Like they're aware of this man. Like this man is causing so many problems for them that they're aware of him. And if they're aware of him, then they dang sure after making things difficult. Um and man, I I In my heart, I want to be a problem to the enemy. I don't want I I want them somewhere to say, "I've heard of him." Yeah, I've heard of that guy. I've heard I've heard I've read that story so many times. I've I think I've probably just gone over it so many times that I've never thought of it from that perspective. Yeah, I think but it always blew my mind that they were I know Jesus. I've heard of Paul. Who are you? I don't want to be a who are you? Yeah, the heard of Paul This is what really made a light bulb go off in my head. That is very interesting. >> And then incredible. Well, man, I'm actually curious for you cuz the first time that I interviewed you, this would have been at your office a couple years ago, whenever that was. You know, we were talking about how there was a there was a period in the not-so-distant past where you would even say you started to kind of mail it in a little bit. Yeah. And well, yeah, I guess you can kind of talk about that period of time because you you you know, the Lord kind of got a hold of you there as well. Yeah, well, 2015 was our first kind of super public controversy. And and really in our public controversies, the one absolutely guilty of. And I woke up to the fact that I had hurt all these people. People that I was trying to lead well, people I was trying to love, people I was trying to be faithful to. And man, I we had sinned against some people, and so I had owned it. I mean, I stood up on stage and owned it. Even Even his lawyers tried to convince me I shouldn't own it. I I owned it. Broke my heart. And then I said, "Man, if we I don't think this is an isolated incident. I think we have we have seen our policies over our people." And then I just put out the invitation that man, if we have harmed you, we have sinned against you, we want to own that. We want to know about it. And so you you we are willing to meet face-to-face. We will not defend ourselves. You set it up however you want. You bring whoever you want. We just want to hear and and we want to ask for your forgiveness. There were 50 meetings after that sermon. 50. Jeez. And man, you want to talk about being brought low. Like I for whatever reason, that season put me in second gear, but I didn't know that that season put me in second gear. I literally didn't. And I I became kind of a an empty suit, if you will, at church. I wasn't leading with conviction, certainly not the same conviction. Because I was second-guessing myself now. So confident before. And and then I hurt a lot of people. And I'm not like I do care about the men and women of the Village Church deeply. I've been with them 23 years. My whole adult life spent with this group of people. And that I genuinely spiritually hurt people rocked me. And that I couldn't go back and make it right. I can just ask for forgiveness. Genuinely ask for forgiveness. And so that I think fear is toxic to convictional leadership. I was afraid of being wrong again. I was afraid of hurting people again. And I didn't want to be a butt hole. Um and you know, they around me, a lot of my friends and other guys I knew or you know, getting disqualified, being accused of, you know, abusing their power and um and so I just kind of was in second gear and I I didn't even realize I was second gear and then I was that I'd gone to Passion and the the spirit had just done this profound work at Passion and I was out at my river cabin. I was just going for a walk with the Lord and he it felt like he was he just asked me if I wanted to be done. Like not do I want to quit, but do I want to just keep doing this, you know? Look, the church is it's good. It's you know, you're you're you're going to go down as, you know, one of the better preachers of your day. You're, you know, you're like we can just ride this thing out. And I didn't feel like I was in trouble. I didn't feel like he was disciplining me. It felt really compassionate. But the Lord knows me, so he knew that was going to provoke me. So he provoked me and I felt like um you know, um Tombstone is like, "I'm in my prime." Like what What are you What are you talking about? What am I'm not done. Like I'm in my prime." And then came the rebuke. And the rebuke was that I'm going to need you to start leading again. I'm going to need you to get back to convictional leadership, convictional preaching. I I need you to wake up, if you will. If I think of Paul in Ephesians, "Wake up, you sleeper." It was that kind of moment for me. And you know, I went back and forth with the Lord where I was like, "Well, you know, here I've been an empty suit for, you know, 5 years. I- if I come back in that gear, >> Like feels like you're overcompensating or something. >> Yeah, if I come back, you know, in fifth, I I've got a whole staff now that knows how to interact with me in second. How How are they going to survive that? I don't I don't want to be a butt hole." And the Lord was like, "Are you a butt hole?" And I'm like, "I'm genuinely not. I love people. I see them. I try to be present. Deeply care about people. Sometimes I wish I didn't care like I did." And he was like, "Then what are we talking about?" And so I wrote a letter to Josh Patterson, the other lead pastor, closest friend. And I was just like, "Man, I'm not sure I would join this church if I wasn't the pastor. And I think these six things need to change or I'm taking that as the Lord leading me to do something else." And um so wrote that letter, gave it to Josh, said, "Hey, I'm going to swing by your house in a week or so. Let's talk through this." And that was my fleece. That was my fleece at TBC. It was, "Am I finishing my run here? Do you have something else? Do you want fifth gear convictional Matt back at TBC or do you want him somewhere else? Because what I want, man, and if this sounds idolatrous, maybe it is a little bit, I don't think it is. I want Jesus with Lauren. That's what I want. It That That's what I feel called to I want as much of Jesus as I can get with Lauren. And so I'll I'll do that wherever he sends me, wherever he wants me to go. And so I the fleece for me was, "If I have to fight Josh, I can probably win because I have the pulpit, but I don't want that relationally and I don't want that for the Village. It's such a great church. I would hate to blow it up for me waking back up." And man, he I sat down with him at his house, at his dining room table. He's like, "Man, I agree with these six and I'd add these two." And I was like, "Bro, I like those two, too." And so I'm I'm still at TBC. Now, at what point Okay, so when you're going through that, you don't know how Josh is going to respond, but at what point are you thinking Did you think of the of an option that wasn't TBC where you were like "Okay Jesus plus Lauren equals something else." There had to been an idea there somewhere. >> I mean, I was willing to plant a church. I've always wanted to plant a church. I've never gotten to. I've gotten to plant hundreds of churches, but I have never got to plant one. And so and even that can be attractive when you're you know, you're in your 40s and you got all the lessons of your 20s and 30s. You're like, "Man, if I could start over, here's how I'd build this in a different way." And um you know, you're not having to correct anything. You're just starting with all the pain, loss, and stupidity of the decades before you. Uh and so I was thinking about that. Lauren's always down for adventure. I mean LC like she like if I called her tonight and was like, "Hey, I think the Lord's asking us to sell everything and move to Whitefish, Montana." She would be like, "Uh okay, I'm going to need >> Yeah, she's just down. I'm going to need to order some boxes." So she's she's just always down. She has so much faith in me and in the Lord. And but I didn't know what I was going to do. I was going to Let's Let's take it one step at a time. Is is TBC TBC still my long-term future? Because up until that point, I'd been talking about our 40 years. What's it look like to pour 40 years into this place? And so but that's not the way it played out. And then I came back in fifth gear and just for a full year it was like, "Nobody really gets to tell me no on ancillary things." So historically, the way it would look, here's what I mean by non-convictional empty suit. I'd be I'll give real stories. Be like, "Hey, man, I think we should start Alpha, but not call it Alpha because in our area, everybody here thinks they're Christians. Let's frame it as like get to know God better, but let it be Alpha. And and I think we're going to see a lot of people come to know Jesus." The person that kind of ran that down line would be like, "Well, we already do like this, which is kind of like that, and this, which is kind of like that." And then I'd be like, "Oh, okay. Well, yeah, never mind." But what was in my heart is like, "That sounds great. Let's do that." So I went a whole year where if somebody was going, "Hey, I hear you. That'd be really hard." I was just going, "Man, I think you're right. I think it is going to be really hard. How can I How can I help you? What do you need from me?" And I started leading that way. So I'm I'm curious when you're when you're thinking in that kind of a way, were there people that had gotten so used to second gear Matt that they're just like, "All right, this is not Like there had to been some of some of them in a way or something. >> There were several. But I wasn't going to What I What I believe about leadership is what I'm supposed to do is reduce politics and confusion and be as clear as I can be. And then let people opt in or opt out. And so what I started doing is getting more clear in where I thought we should be going, what we should be doing, how we should be organized, the emphasis of the next season in the life of the Village Church the and then people self selected and I didn't there wasn't a single person fired from that. So are we back in the 40 year? I don't you know what I don't know. I think so. I think I'll finish at TVC and uh my closest friends are there. I'm having so much fun right now man. We're stewarding this really unique move of the spirit the past year. We've baptized more people than we ever have. We've like it's just there's such expectancy for God to work and move such a hunger uh for the things of God right now. I'm having so much fun. You know what? I've I've never heard that story. I don't know know any of the details behind that but what the first story that you said about the demon saying that like we've heard of Paul well like I think they've heard of you obviously because you know whatever that situation is and where it came from is the exact same thing. It's like you're you're at this point and obviously what is the enemy want to do? They're going to try to take you down take your church down take your ministry down. So you're in that same boat my friend. Well I want to be. I I try to live on fire. I want to I want to go right at him. I don't want to play defense alone against him. I want to play offense. So when you play offense your hat says Jesus Jesus and Jiu-Jitsu tell me more about that. So how does that work? >> [laughter] >> Well that's a whole 'nother ministry started by some good friends of mine. Kyle knows him now too and there's some guys that I train with who had this profound encounter with Jesus year one for me. So I didn't start this ministry. I'm not even I'm I'm just a like an ambassador. So a guy named JP Dinnell who works for Jocko Willink Echelon Front guy named Stephen Little guy named Isaac I'm missing one guy. Ryan. Oh Ryan Kramer's on the board but Joshua Stromberg the those four guys went to this men's retreat called pursuit. They had this profound encounter with the Holy Spirit. I mean nuked them came back different guys. Like completely different guys. And God put in one of their hearts. I don't know if it was JP or Stephen or who it was that there was this like field ripe with harvest in the Jiu-Jitsu world. And that they've got a all these men you got women too but a ton of men who this is therapy. I mean this is where they're staying alive with you know. And what if we brought the gospel into it? So the idea was simple find a guy who people want to learn from. Bring them into a Jiu-Jitsu studio for like for free. Like here's a free seminar with Rafael Formiga Barbosa. He's going to teach butterfly guard. Bring in Formiga. Formiga teaches for free and then they share the gospel and then it just exploded. So they've got discipleship curriculum now. They're running Bible studies out of gyms all over the country. They've done one in Boston out in California all over Texas. They it's just been this ministry that these guys started that just exploded and they're all pretty good friends some more than others and so I'm just a little ambassador for them. Don't you you do Jiu-Jitsu too right Kyle? Uh I've heard of it. Is it like karate? I taekwondo. I think you do a bunch of roundhouse kicks right? Yeah I mean it's just you're using their chi against them and so that's my understanding of Jiu-Jitsu but no like the the Jesus and Jiu-Jitsu guys because you know if you if you train Jiu-Jitsu for any length of time you realize like the baddest dudes are off also the ones seemingly with the softest demeanors. They're the ones that want like they're the ones that are going to de-escalate a situation as quickly as possible. It's just one of those things like if you if you push someone like that it's like it's going to be a bad day for you but they're going to give you every opportunity to not have that outcome and you see so many Jiu-Jitsu guys like I remember Ryan Hall was one where there was a guy trying to you know fight him in a restaurant cuz he's you know this little guy but I mean the the ministry that they're doing with Jesus and Jiu-Jitsu is just so inspiring because Jiu-Jitsu historically is a place without a whole lot of Jesus in it and with the ubiquity of Jiu-Jitsu now and the gyms popping up all over the place you know you're going to have some growing pain stuff. You're going to have some guys that have black belts and open up academies that probably aren't black belts you know they're not that legit and you know there's there's all those things but if guys can train get an escape learn a a real fighting skill but then also develop in their discipleship with Jesus like it's just it's substantial. They're really onto something. Well and like there's been in all honesty and like 90% of them are going to watch this video there's been like a little mini revival at our at our gym. Like on Tuesday mornings after we all roll about 20 guys meet up. There's a guy that's he's a white belt. He owns a the he owns a company in town. He's got a like a office building like 20 guys jam in his lobby. And they read the Bible and they share testimonies. They pray for one another. Guy named Chris Klein has a like a prayer sheet that's on like they we got a big text thread he's always posting like don't forget here's the prayer sheet. There's always updates on who's doing what who's going through what how to pray for each other how to and that was like that was nowhere in view four years ago. That that's been just the faithful presence of these brothers who train there and Isaac and guy named Will Tate and I mean just men of God disciple making manly men who are pulling these guys in man and they're calling them out on their crap and man it's become a it's been it's become a really cool community for me. You said calling them out on on their crap. Kyle and I we've been What did we start like probably in 2016 2015? >> my first Jiu-Jitsu class was the Sunday after UFC 200 so that would have been 2016. >> About about 2016 and so what would you say to somebody who's like I don't know eight or nine years into the Jiu-Jitsu game and is still a white belt. Is that is that good or >> okay. I think probably what he needs to do is train. Train? >> Like just he he should go back and train. There's no substitute for mat time. Yeah. >> There is none. Yeah. That is that is >> that he got he had a scare. He saw like a guy's collarbone break and some other guy's toe or something and that scared him but part of this process is to lean into the fear. Yeah you got to lean into the fear because that's so uh Adam I think you just need to burn the ships. You just need to burn the ships. Get you a ghee. My tooth my two things were I hurt I hurt your ankle and it was a weird thing where your ankle got hurt and then two weeks later I broke my buddy's collarbone. >> But it wasn't an ankle lock. It was just some weird it was just some freak deals. It just got it just got caught and I heard it and I felt it pop and I was like I just hurt my buddy and then two weeks later I broke my buddy's collarbone and at that point I was probably three or four years in maybe and I was training more regularly >> Well were you like spaz super spazzy? Is that why you were hurting everybody? >> have I do kind of have that problem. Now now spaz not spaz into the point to where like when I feel pressure I just have to freak out and get out but I just I try things and do things that are unnatural because I don't do it enough and I know that this is not a move I should try to do but I I try it anyway. >> I saw it on YouTube. >> I try I try it anyway and so it just causes problems. Now the collarbone that was a freak thing that was not my fault the way I escaped what what do you call it Kyle where you're north-south and someone does uh they didn't he didn't put on the seatbelt but he went uh both over my both arms around my torso and so I threw my elbow up and tossed him over so I could mount him. What's that called? I don't know what that's called. Anyway This is when with Mike where you hurt his collarbone? Yeah and and he just his collarbone just split and um so ever since then I've been nervous about not as much about myself but I do I do like I'd rather climb a mountain. I'd rather climb I'd rather come out here and I'm always worried about messing up my knee or whatever. So uh my my average for training right now is probably like two or three times a quarter. I'm coming in like once a month. >> belt a long time. >> Yeah that's pretty much what I am. So I mean the the thing about it is is you are further along than a lot of guys that have never done any training because so I remember I can't remember the guy's name but I remember when I was on a security team for a a church that I was at a long time ago. This was when I was in my 20s. And I'd never done Jiu-Jitsu never any real fighting you know no street fights like none of that kind of thing. And I remember seeing this guy um he was like 5'5" and I remember him being on the security team and me looking at him like what's this guy going to do? What's this guy He was a world champion nogi guy and you know and well known here in Oklahoma. And I just remember being like what an idiot like what an idiot but there are so many guys walking around that have this outsized idea of how they would respond in a physical altercation and it's like brother like it's it's bad. >> Not that anybody needs another case study but if we wanted to go back to when Kyle and I started in 2016 Kyle I think you would say that if we were to roll in 2016 you would probably win 60 to 65% of the time cuz you're Yeah it was maybe 55 45 or 60 40 something like that. 60 40 we were pretty close. He would tap me out I would tap him out. We were both pretty aggressive similar strength similar athleticism and then flash forward to probably 2022 I bet it was and I had been sort of out of it for a year came back and Kyle and I get on the mat and I what did I challenged you and I was like you're not going to tap me more than five times in like three minutes. Yeah it was >> And it was what? 12? I mean it was 12 times. It got bad. In three? It got really bad. >> It was it was really it was Listen I'm not tooting my own horn. He I mean he's putting a beating on me multiple occasions. >> it was eye-opening to me. I was like, he has accelerated to a level that I cannot even possibly imagine. I can't even when we roll, I never have him in danger. Ever. And I know it and I can feel it and I can tell he's never he's never in danger and I used to be able to do at least something. I don't think he I think after we've rolled, I don't think he's ever washed his ghee after we've rolled. He He doesn't even sweat. >> Like I don't even think he sweats. >> I just, you know, the but the the thing about it is is you always get medicine. So, uh shout out to uh 10th Planet in Jacksonville because before men's conference at Church 11:22, I get my Dominion guys out there and you know, we're doing jiu-jitsu and we're rolling. And I just I'm going to roll with all the guys that are there, but you know, most of them don't really train or I had never trained. >> the Kyle, come on, man. What? Just like you're just beating up guys that never been on the mat. >> No, there's some guys that are like white belts that are training in the ghee and all that, but it's just like >> in and there's there's fresh blood in the corner and Kyle's eyes just light up and he's like, "Oh, boy." >> Leave that trial class guy alone, bro. >> No, you just, you know, but I would just roll until there was a sub and that would come pretty quick, but then I rolled with Professor Brown and he gave me my medicine and that's just that's just the thing with jiu-jitsu is like there there's absolutely zero substitute for mat time and you know, he had been a black belt longer than I had been training. And I don't know, it's just different cuz like I remember trying to get into golf when I was in my 20s cuz I thought, "All right, you're not going to be good successful in business unless you golf." I just remember hating it and there was it's just cuz there wasn't enough physicality to the game or or anything like that, but then, you know, realizing at some point it's like, "Wait, I can try to get good at hunting and jiu-jitsu and still have success and still have friends and, you know, you know, do stuff in business, but, you know, it's just kind of one of those deals like I look at who I was before jiu-jitsu. Like and I'm not being hyperbolic. Like there's four huge shifts in my life. They're like when I became a Christian, when I became a husband, when I became a father, and when I started training jiu-jitsu. Because it's just like, man, if you've got any like ego problems or any like outsized aggression or like repressed anger or any that kind of stuff, like jiu-jitsu just finds it. And I will give you props because you were the guy that we were always worried about. Like, "Don't put Kyle with any new guy. Don't put Kyle with the new guy." And now when the new guy's there, it's like, "Let Kyle be there because Kyle's in control. Kyle knows what he's doing. He's not going to hurt anybody." You've come a long way, my friend. Well, I and I I honestly feel it to where I I kind of honestly worry like I like to turn 40 next year. Like what would I be like right now had I not started doing jiu-jitsu? Cuz, you know, I was doing you know, beer league softball and you know, these random adult basketball leagues and it's still working out and still doing all that, but it's like the the things that I've changed in my personality and all that because it's just been beaten out of me with jiu-jitsu and the thing about it is is it never ends. Because I'm, you know, I got a couple stripes on my brown belt now, but you go walking into another gym if anybody recognizes you or if they just recognize that you got a brown belt, now you're getting everyone's IBJJF finals effort. >> So true. And it's just like you can't turn it off and then every belt you get, you feel like you're constantly having to earn it. Yeah. So you get your purple belt and it's like, "No, you haven't arrived." Now you're like, "Okay, a white belt can't do anything to you." Like you you got your purple belt, you can't let a white belt do something to you. Then you get your brown belt and it's kind of that same thing like because and then once you get your black belt, it's like you can't let a collegiate wrestler blue belt give you problems, but then there's also like there's the reality of, "Okay, if you're doing jiu-jitsu in your 40s and then Matt, you're doing jiu-jitsu like in your 50s, there's realities to what you can do and if there's, you know, an 18-year-old freak beast guy that's coming in there, he might be able to give you problems and you just got to be okay with it." >> Be all right. Or just say, "I'm not rolling with Yeah, get get very selective >> There are guys that I'm like, "I'm not rolling with him." Yep. >> Like I'll get hurt and I'm just not going to roll with him. It ain't worth it to me. Mhm. Yeah, cuz I want to be rolling when I'm in my 50s. Like because my boys are five and three. When they're 18, 17, 16, I want them to be able to roll with that. >> Yeah. Right? You mentioned adult league softball and I mentioned my fear with doing jiu-jitsu, but like talk about fear, adult league softball busting out of like hitting hitting a single and you you get out of you get out of the batter's box and immediately your Achilles goes or your >> Or you take a line drive to the face on the third base. >> The last the last time I played, I was probably early 30s, like 31, 32, something like that and I was the only dude that would stretch before the game. I was out there stretching. >> that guy, too. It was 30 minutes before and I'm like, "I am not limping all over the field." >> only one. I was jogging and stretching and jogging and stretching and everybody would laugh at me and be like, "Oh, there's Adam stretching like Old Pa Paul Adam. >> Yeah, over there stretching out his his hammy again." When they're the ones blowing their hammies and rolling their ankles going around first base. >> There's a black belt that trains with us at Formigas or Double Five and Dave, we call him Terminator Dave and he like wildly successful business guy, has a podcast called BJJ Executive. Kind of blends jiu-jitsu stuff and executive leadership stuff. Brilliant guy. And he's a little bit older than me and man, when I roll up to the 6:30 class at 6:20, he's already there. He's already like he's got bands out, he's stretching, he's then he's running around on the mats when we first get in there. And he wants a little lather before he even starts and I'm like, "That's probably my future if I'm going to keep doing this." So it's fun to have a guy a little bit ahead of me that I can go, "Okay, you're going to have to really warm up before." Well, I mean, you you've talked about this before, but you know, we get new listeners and viewers every week. You're a successful pastor. You're a published author. You're renowned um just in the space of ministry. You've You've accomplished a lot of things. And of all the hobbies you could pick up. Like >> He's seriously >> boating. You could do running. You could like you could have done physical-ish things. >> I was doing physical-ish stuff. >> But like I'm I'm sitting here trying to remember cuz I know you've told me. I was doing CrossFit. >> Right, but why why jiu-jitsu? Like what was that? >> I in all honesty, I'm doing jiu-jitsu right now cuz I am crazy about my son. I love him. I missed him. Shout out, Reed. >> I coached all his teams growing up. Coached city league 11 on 11 football. I coached basketball. And then they get into high school. And what's interesting about high school is like high school coaches don't care what dad thinks about the defense they run or that So then there was this natural healthy distance. Like, you know, you don't lose your kid all at once. There are these series of things that happens. Like they turn 16. Like I think guys aren't most people don't realize because you're so like worn out driving your kids all you feel like a human Uber driver. But man, the second you lose that windshield time. Like cuz they're when you when they're in the car, they might just open up and give you their heart. Right? But if you walk into the room, go, "Hey, how you doing? Everything okay?" Good. You ask him to dinner. Good. But sometimes in that car, they'll give it to you. And then it's gone. It's like you had years in the car with him and then it was over. And so Reed's driving. He's playing high school football. I I missed him. It's good. It's right. The distance is good and right. You know, as mamas and dads, well, you that'll just destroy you if you just lost them all at once. And I was missing him, man. I was still taking him to breakfast on Friday mornings. I was trying to get time with him. I was any trip I was doing like at a men's retreat. I was like, "Bro, get out of school. Come with me." I was taking him all over the country and um but we didn't have that time and he was He didn't want to play football anymore. He's such a I love that kid so much. He's such a great athlete, but he's just not a jock, man. He just never never liked off season. He wanted to quit sports every off season. Um he didn't watch sports. He didn't play sports video games. He could just show up and be better than anybody else. And so he didn't want to play. I made him play his junior year and was just like "Look if you don't want to play your senior year, you have to tell me during the season after a great game." And so he had this I mean, just epic game, bro. They He was playing tailback and he was starting like he didn't leave the field that night. He had like touchdowns and interceptions and led the team in tackles. He was just like putting on a show. And I just thought, "Okay, I'm not going to hear anything about not wanting to play." He came home that night. That night was like, "I'm done." Oh. And I was like, "How do you I mean, you broke up a 70-yard touch How are you done?" He was like, "The work it takes to do that ain't worth it for me." Wow. What do you say to that? Yep, that there's not much to say. And then he's so future, you know, oriented. He's like, "It's not like I'm going to play. I'm too small to play college ball and I'm not going to play in the NFL, so why?" So I was the one going, "Cuz it's fun? Man, Cuz you enjoy yourself?" >> I think in general that's hard like cuz we all want certain things for our kids. Like we want our kids to excel at certain things. Like I want my daughters to have a sport and do things in sports, but it doesn't really drive them. They're not super motivated by it. So like I'm I'm I've definitely trying to not be the guy that's like, "You must play soccer. You must go play basketball. You have to do these things." >> Well, I said this, "You will do something physical." That's all my kids know that. You're doing something physical. I want you learning discipline. I want you learning pain. I want you learning disappointment. That's what sports are so great for. And so I was like, "Okay, you can quit. But something's got to replace it. Not video games." So, you got you you have got to do something physical, buddy. Well, he's dating this girl uh whose dad's a black belt professor at Gracie Barra. And he had been in Reed's ear about, "Man, you should train jiu-jitsu, bro. You got the perfect body for it. You're strong, you're aggressive, you're long. You'd be a problem." And so, Reed comes to me. I mean, I remember I was sitting. He was like, "Dad, what do you think about Would you be willing to go try jiu-jitsu with me?" >> How old was he at this point? >> He was 17. 17. I was 47. So, four five years ago? >> Yeah, four years ago. Yeah, because this is when I started, four years ago. And so, man, I was like, "Oh, gosh." Cuz I don't I mean, I don't watch UFC. I don't like that stuff, man. >> You didn't wrestle growing up and >> No, I mean, just like with my friends. I had two sisters, so it wasn't like I had a brother that I So, no. No. >> No fighting experience >> just like drunk fighting before I came to Christ, you know, I'd I'd go looking for trouble if I had too much to drink, but um and I learned early, hit first and then just keep hitting until somebody pulls you off. That was my first fight and I learned it there. Just don't don't go go ahead and hit me, bro, because he might. And then, it's hard to recover from a clean shot. >> I saw I saw a video the other day. I think maybe even we were we were watching it together possibly where two guys were jawing at each other and one guy just freaking wheeled back and hammered this dude. It's like, well, you know what? You You were >> You literally asked for it. >> You literally asked for it. You know, you got what you got. >> That was my first fight and then after that I was like, "You know what? I'm going to If it If it's even If I think it might happen, I'm just swinging." But um but then, when I became a Christian, like that This isn't good or bad, it's just what happened. That was part of my "Okay, I'm a Christian now. I need to leave girls with daddy issues alone. I need to quit drinking and I need to quit punching people." Like those were my three things. If I can do these three things, I'm going to I'm a saint. Like I'm going to I'm an apostle. And so, I worked real hard at that explosive temper that I had, submitting it to Christ. Submitting it to Christ. Submitting it to Christ. And then and then I was just like there was nothing in me that wanted to go try jiu-jitsu as a 47-year-old man who's a pastor of the largest church in the area. And but it's my boy, man. And so, I was like, "You know what? Let's go." And so, I went and did it that night with Reed and they gave us some gees. We put them on. Mine was way too small. And beginner class. And man, I came home that night and I was like, "I freaking love this." So, Reed and I trained together for two years. We did a competition together. Um and then, just school and work and girlfriend got the best of him and he he he needed to drop out. He keeps saying he's going to come back. I hope he does. Uh Double Five's not an easy place for a teenager to train. There's not a lot of kids there. A lot of a lot of big scary dudes in there. >> I mean, my gym is just filled with huge monsters. Like even They're all like descendants of Nephilim. They're seemingly Yeah. >> just not I'm not joking. It The number of guys that are 6'4, 6'5, 230, 250. They're just It's like half the the Tuesday morning class fits that bill. What I have the most problem with are guys like you with really long legs, really long arms cuz you you have a superhuman power to like stretch those things around me in a way that other people can't and it's a problem. >> See, I struggle with guys like that. I mean, I struggle with guys like that. >> The fire hydrants are what give me trouble. The the 5'9 220 guy. That's the guy. There's no room in there. I can't >> There's no neck to choke and then there's a gee, so there's no room for anything else. So, that's how I got started and then I fell in love with it. And then, I fell in with this community of men that's just I I need I need rough around the edges around me. I If I don't get it, I get real angsty. Well, when you're around pastors all the time like cuz you know, Joby's talked about this a lot, but you know, you go to any modern Bible college or seminary or pastors conferences or stuff like that, you got a bunch of guys that spend a lot of time studying and and so, it's like they have Well, [clears throat] they have the affect of a Bonhoeffer, but not the gangster side. >> Yeah, you need that. I'll hang you. I'll I'll I'll bring a bomb into your office. You need that in your ministry. Well, and I think the other thing that is is helpful what it's just you know, we we talk all the time about, you know, Satan's trying to get after pastors, you know, trying to take them out with moneys and honeys. And it's like if you've got a hobby that leaves you exhausted like man, you just leave such little room for Satan to get after you with kind of like the normal attacks. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's right. That makes sense because of Kyle, your ministry you've always talked about not feeling comfortable in church and like going to church and not in church, I mean like in in a worship setting and it's like uh is effeminate songs and just not feeling like this was not meant for me, you know? And so, it seems like you Matt, you were talking about um you need to be around guys who are aggressive and and angry and it's like if you have that inside of you, you got to have that outlet at the same time, right? Well, the outlet isn't the shooting range. Like it's just it's just very different. Yeah, the the physicality and then for me the thing I love about jiu-jitsu even more than its physicality, which I love that. I need that. Is it is problem dynamic problem solving under duress. It's the mental chess that if I've got a leadership challenge or like this is a common occurrence that I'll have the exegesis done um and I'm I'm trying to put the sermon together. I feel stuck to me. It's not flowing like I want it to. Man, I'll just go roll. I'll just go roll, come home, get in my cold plunge, warm up a little bit, get in the shower and then it'll like download. It's just like that. Making my mind tired with jiu-jitsu. Um Lauren would say makes me childlike again. So, she loves when I roll. I don't have the wife like, "You rolling again?" She's like, "You should go roll." And then you >> You should go roll. And then you start feeling like you're getting good. You start belting up and then the 5'4 130-lb Olympic wrestler walks in. You're like, "I'm going to smash this guy." And he spends his entire time on top of you and turns you into a pretzel. >> Yeah, it's it's so so beautiful. Yep. And there's there's never like if your name's not Gordon Ryan or Andre Galvao or Marcus Buchecha, it's like those guys could potentially go years without getting submitted in a in a real like I where they're actually going hard kind of a situation. And but that's the constant ego trip of jiu-jitsu is there's always a hammer out there with your name on it. Because like I'll go to you know, I'll I'll take my gee when I travel or I'll take my no gee stuff and I'll pop into gyms and you know, if you train at a gym like Double Five or like the Forge here in Edmond or here in Oklahoma and you you just keep getting smashed by some of your teammates and you don't feel like you're getting any good. And then you go into another gym with people that are supposed to be on your level, maybe in a different state or a different part of your own state and you're like, "Oh, okay. I just happened to go like The fact that Double Five is in your backyard is like it's insane." And the best gym in Oklahoma is 10 minutes from my house. Have you trained there, Double Five? Uh I've gone down there once. Whenever it was a Jesus and Jiu-Jitsu event. Yeah. Man, I it's so true. Like I don't I always feel like I'm not getting better at Double Five. I mean, I might have a day I did all right, but I've never gone like, "Oh, yeah, I clicked." But then if I travel and take my gee and drop in or I fight in a competition, then I'm like, "You know what? I might actually be pretty good at this." So, that cross training's helpful. Not the Forge. The Forge was a lot like Double Five. Do you do competitions a lot? Uh I've done two. I hope I want to do one more in March. Um I'm nursing some ribs right now. I don't want to go into a comp where I haven't been able to train really consistently. >> Do Do you worry that when you walk into a competition, people see you from across the way and they're >> I have [clears throat] worried about it. I don't care if they see me across way. I just don't want to fight anybody that just finished listening to, you know, my Revelation series or something. You know, it's like >> Or some very good atheists. >> Changed my life. Or that. Or yeah, some What are those people back in '15 that I harmed? I don't want to fight that guy either. Uh but it it's just so cool to to see just you you'll see so many people like training and like doing jiu-jitsu and cuz you know when you run into somebody, I mean somebody that's actually training, not someone that just like, you know, gets a a mail order belt and you know, just does privates in their garage. Like not I'll take I'll take one of those. I mean, I I think I earned one at this point. >> But whenever You can get one on Amazon. Just get your own belt. >> Oh, I could get an Amazon So, I could order my own blue belt. >> Right. I mean, it's stolen valor, but you could do it. >> But it would still count. Well, until you're on the mat with somebody. Right. That that becomes a problem is if you take real classes at a real gym and then you get exposed. Like that's not good either because like a belt is a dyed piece of fabric. Like that's all that belt is. Now and then there are some gyms they kind of give, you know, lifetime achievement belts to people that have been training for a long time and hey, we want to keep them paying for classes and like >> if I ever get a black belt, that's probably what's going to happen cuz I'm going to be like 70. They're like, [clears throat] "You know what? He's still here." He's still here. >> Just give it to him. >> But okay, some of the best advice I ever got physically was from one of my first real mentors, to Roger Webb, who is the the president of the University of Central Oklahoma. I got his scholarship to go to that university. This was after college. Um and he's in his 70s at this point. And we're just talking about fitness and being in shape cuz you know, I've just been, you know, a uh workout exercise fiend since I was like 16. The first thing I did I'll take with my first paycheck from being a busboy at Outback Steakhouse is I went and talked to the manager at Gold's Gym and I'm like, I I can't really afford the membership, but if y'all can like do me a a solid and got me a membership. But he he told me, he's like, "Kyle, don't compare yourself to 18-year-olds, 25-year-olds when you're beyond that age. Compare yourself to the men that are in like your age cohort." Cuz he's like, you know, men in their 70s like can barely walk and he's in very, very good shape and he's like, "My weight has been roughly the same since I was a teenager and I've always kind of like minded that and kind of like kept that in mind." And so, yeah, it's fun whenever I like cuz I'll go to like high school, I'll get invited to like some high school wrestling gyms and I'll just go in there and work work the guys out. And they're just because like when you're 35, you might as well be a billion years old like to a 16-year-old, 17-year-old wrestler. And when they see, you know, you and or like Jermaine or any of these types of guys like doing the workouts, they're like, "Oh, that's insane." So, it's like, you know, as I'm getting into my 40s and, you know, trying to still take care of my body, like I want to always be able to outdo the people that are in kind of my age cohort without making it like an idolatrous ambition. Be because it's like as Paul would say, it is of some value. Um, so I don't want to sacrifice, you know, spiritually or any of those types of things in my pursuit of doing the Murph every year until I die. But at the same time, it's like most people don't have a physical standard of any kind to lean back on and so, it doesn't matter what age they are, they're not pursuing that. You mentioned UCO. Did you know that college that Kyle is a collegiate athlete? Uh, he's mentioned it. Did you Do you remember what sport? Uh, I thought baseball, but I think that's wrong. >> That's a good Okay, good. I'm glad you said baseball. If it wasn't baseball, looking at his stature, what what else do you think Kyle would have been? I mean, maybe maybe a gymnast? >> A gymnast? Hey, they could do the iron cross. That's what I'm saying, bro. I could see Kyle on the rings. Gymnast or baseball, maybe a maybe a wrestler, but no. He was on the soccer team. Okay? So, on the soccer team. So, so if he was on the soccer team, what position on the field do you think Kyle most likely would have played? >> I don't I think it shouldn't be keeper, but I think it was. >> It was keeper. It was keeper. He Yeah, so they're not very good. >> I think he's on the wall. Like he's on the wall of fame at the UCO Broncos for the best goalkeeper of all time. Yeah, so >> it. Uh, obviously most goalkeepers pretty much. Most goalkeepers are stocky, 5'10 guys. Like it's kind of a it's an interesting story cuz I grew up playing baseball. And uh, there was a guy on our team called named Jason Sellers and he quit the baseball team to go be the keeper for the for the soccer team. And he was one of our better baseball players and so like we all just there was just this rivalry between soccer and baseball and like, "Oh, we don't like them, they don't like us." and all that. And I just never played soccer. >> This was at UCO or this was at >> was like growing up in like high school. But then I'm at UCO and I've I've got a bunch of friends and one of them uh, is Matt Grasmeier from uh, the Forging Table that you guys will know. Well, I'm on campus as a junior and I get a call from Matt. He's like, "Kyle, are you on campus?" And I'm like, "Yeah." He's like, "Grab your cleats, come to Fire Station Field." And I'm like, "Why?" He's like, "Grab your cleats. Come come now." And I'm thinking like flag football, like something, whatever. And I get out there and they're playing soccer. I was like, "Whoa whoa whoa whoa No no no no no no No, like this is against the rules. Like that's a European thing. That's not That's not happening here. Right, it's not pride month. We're not doing this." And so, [clears throat] he goes, "Kyle, our goalie is AWOL. We don't know where he is. We just need you to play goalie." And I'm like, "Matt, I What are you talking about? Like I don't I don't know the rules of soccer. I don't know anything. I don't know where to stand. You've never >> Not only have you never been in goal before, you've never played soccer before. >> play as a kid like 3 or 4 years old. And Matt, in his infinite wisdom, he goes, "Kyle, you were an outfielder, right?" I was like, "Yeah." He's like, "What's the number one rule of outfield?" Well, don't let the ball get behind you. Well, there it is. Of course. And he's like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, do that. Just do that." So, no, they didn't teach you any angles. They didn't teach you >> So, I'm standing on whatever that would be the the goal line, right? I don't know where I can go. I don't know about the 18-yard box. I don't know anything. I just know >> movie Major League with Cerrano where he can't hit the ball and they're like, "He can't hit the curveball." And he can't hit the curveball. And so, I don't know where to stand. They gave me a pair of gloves like cuz I knew if I was outside of a certain area and used my hands, it was a bad thing. I didn't know how bad. And so, I remember this. I get five goals scored on me by these non-athletes, right? These soccer players, right? These defilers of athleticism. And so >> comes fast, bro. And it comes fast and you don't know what to do and then but I know that letting the ball get behind me is a bad idea and I let that happen five times. And we and we lost the game. And so, obviously I believe that we lost the game only because of me. And so then I'm like, "Okay." So, I start training with with Matt who's a fantastic soccer player and I start training with some of the guys and I'm like learning the angles and like doing different things and so, uh, they still needed some help for an intramural team and all that. So, I'm I'm helping. And >> [clears throat] >> then what ended up happening is on the University of Central Oklahoma campus at the time, we had about 17,000 students, but about 1,000, 1,500 were international students. And so, there was actually a World Cup competition on the UCO campus. And so, there was like Team USA and Team Nigeria and Team Brazil and Team whatever whatever Japan. And so, most of the guys that I played with were on Team USA and they needed a keeper and so, they got me cuz they basically got me to the point where I could do everything except for goal kicks. I could never kick the ball off the ground, but I could punt and most of the time, I would throw the ball. Like I wouldn't kick it. I would pick it up and I would throw cuz I could throw it farther than I could kick it. >> So, when it was a goal kick, did somebody else come kick for you? >> would come do the goal kick for me. >> Oh, no. And so, we we we go through this tournament. We get to the final and it's against Team Japan. And these Japanese guys were so good. And then like during halftime, they're like smoking cigarettes and like all this and they're just >> true. But they're just murdering. They're so good. Well, we lose one to nothing. And so, we're coming off the field, we're a little disappointed. And the referee who had refereed the entire tournament cuz the tournament took like 2 months or something like that. We're coming off the field and the referee goes, "Uh, hi. I'm such and such so and so. Um, I'm actually the the head coach of the UCO men's soccer team and we've got a problem at goalkeeper. I'd like to offer you a scholarship to be our starting goalkeeper." >> cool story. I'm glad he's telling the whole thing. It's pretty >> he's kidding with me. I think the guys like put him up to it or all that. And so, this is my response. I go, "Oh, I don't play soccer." He's watched me play soccer for like 2 months at this point and he's very confused. I'm I'm like, "No, no, no. I'm just helping out my friends. Like this is just like a little side deal or whatever." He's like, "Okay, so you're telling me no?" And I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, no. I'm not interested." And so, now it's my senior year at UCO and he finds me on campus. And he comes up to me and he's like, "We're in the same predicament that we were last year. We don't have a goalkeeper that we can trust. I would like to offer you a scholarship to be the starting goalkeeper for the men's team. You're on this campus." And at this point, I'm like I I had several scholarships. I was actually, you know, I had a positive bursar account, you know, balance and all that to to go to school and I go, "Tell you what, I'll come play, but give the scholarship to somebody else. Like I you know, it would be lost on me at this point." So, I ended up playing my senior year for 1 year and cuz it's the same league as OU and Oklahoma State and Kansas State and Kansas and Arkansas. And so, 5'10, 175 lb at the time and having played soccer for about about 10 years. So, I would imagine everybody else that gets on that field and they see you go into keeper and they're like, "Oh, boy. We're going We're scoring at will. >> going upper 90 on this kid all the way. was because I didn't know what you weren't supposed to do as a keeper. Like everything was backwards. So, it just messed everybody up. Right. And so, and I was so aggressive. And so, really? If the ball I know. I don't shock I don't shock I don't >> But if the ball was anywhere in my area, it was mine. And if I had to run over you and your grandmother to get to that ball, >> getting it. >> I was going to destroy your entire family tree to get to that ball. Because Kyle doesn't understand that like normally in soccer, the goalie's kind of like usually off by himself. Like don't touch the goalie. Don't mess with the goalie. The goalie's kind of got this halo around him and then here comes this raging fool of a man. >> ginger. So, as you know, as I'm hanging out with these guys, like I'm watching some international soccer and I'm watching all that. And I had never seen the goalie get a penalty for being too aggressive. And so, I was like, "All right. That's true. If I clean someone out of their cleats, I could get I betcha I can make a new thing here. Yeah, I was like, "They're they're probably not going to call me for a foul and you know, get a goal kick from the 20 yards out or a PK or something like that." So, I was like, "I'm just going to be like hyper aggressive." So, yeah, that's my collegiate soccer story, believe it or not. It's actually one of my favorite stories. I'm glad you told the whole thing. It's amazing. >> It is pretty incredible, really. When you think about it. Just some random dude What did you say? 5'10? Like scholarship. >> 5'9, 5'9 and 1/2. 5'10, D1 scholarship. >> D1, yeah. Think of all the poor >> D2, let's not go crazy, but we were in the in the D1 league. Uh, all those poor kids that had drilled and drilled and drilled at keeper their whole lives. So, when I was at Baylor, it was 2003 and that was right after one of uh, Baylor's players had killed one of the other players. I remember that. It was a murder It was a murder on campus. Yeah, so. Uh, they had open tryouts on campus for anybody to come and try out for the basketball team. And I was I was not a great basketball player. I was like eighth man on OC at my high school team. So, I was just the the football player that came in for 5 to 10 minutes a game and just kind of you know, bang people around. Foul. Pretty much. Dennis Rodman. Really good at rebounding and flagrant fouls. Yes. >> Dennis Rodman, man. That whole career with that. So, I signed up to go try out and I worked and I worked and I worked and way back in the day I could play some basketball and I went and I played out of my mind at this practice. Completely out of my mind. We were in there for about an hour and a half. I think I knocked down three 3s. I hit two like and ones. I got the coach to come up to me and he's like, "What's your name?" I told I told him my name and I was like, "This might actually go somewhere. Something might happen." And Scott Drew was up in the stands and I saw him looking at me. He had a little pad and I was like, "Am I going to get He just wrote my name." >> "Am I Am I going to get to play college basketball?" And they never called. Never. Never called. Didn't get that back. >> I was I was the 6-ft kid and I was not the guy that they were looking for. >> Baylor started to fall off a cliff. Oh, it's good because they didn't they didn't ask me. >> chance. >> They had it They had it. I had a chance. >> It's like the six teams that picked quarterbacks before Brady. Gosh, can you imagine? >> like that. I could have knocked down a three probably 21% of the time, maybe 22% of the time. Those are pretty good >> But you would have scored power four, I guess it would have been power five back then, power five points. Exactly. And as a individual basketball D1 basketball. That's right. Well, I I think it would be interesting to even kind of talk a little bit about what's going on at Baylor because like you're the only human being, you and your wife, the only human beings I know that like went to Baylor and like all, you know, all Baylor'd out and all that. But just being an observer of what's happening and what has happened there, you know, and I I've made the appeal to where it's like, "What is going on in Waco?" You have Chip and Joanna Gaines like going full culture warrior like swinging far to the left. And then the things that you're seeing going on on that campus. And you and I have talked a lot, you know, a lot about that and just the different concerns of historically Christian university. I think it's the oldest university in Texas. Yep. And when you have these historically Christian schools that are you know, like TCU is Christian in name only. Like SMU is basically Christian in name only and then you have Baylor that's basically going the way of those universities and it's like there's this fervent discussion of what do you do cuz and there's there's this discussion of seminaries. >> Yeah. Like you have seminaries that have swung so far to the left and just acquiescing to our atheistic culture and it's like as an observer, obviously, it's great for podcast content, but if your kid is there and you're paying $70,000 a year to send your kid to this university expecting them not to come out pagan, it's it's got to be like very concerning. >> It just It just goes back to the same the same dichotomy between swinging the pendulum to where you're trying to say we're we are being accepting and we want people to come in and we want people to learn about Jesus and we want people to learn about Christianity, but at the same time, are we affirming things that we clearly should not be affirming? Like where is that line? What do we stand for? Do we stand for anything or not? Like are we going to bring them in and and accept them to the point to where we're going to allow them to live in their sin and live the way they always have because that's the way the university seems to be okay with. It's like, "Hey, you know what? We're We're just loving Jesus. We're just bringing Jesus in, bringing Jesus to everybody. You know, we're not going to have a chapel anymore because we want everybody to have their own version of chapel." Which I could see there are some advantages to that, but also one of the descriptions, which I think they've now taken it down, but one of the chapels that they had it referred to in the description that they wanted you to center yourself. Center yourself in meditation. I'm like, "That is danger zone to me." Like that feels very new worldish to me. Um Yeah, very new age. >> New age New age to me. >> Let me ask Let me ask this and I don't know. I have some experience in small Christian school, even though Baylor's not a small Christian school. Is it Talbot or is it No, not Truett? Truett. >> Or is it the school? So, like let me when I I won like a distinguished alumni award, my experience was the school of theology at the the small Baptist college I went to leaned left. Um like no angels, no demons, no virgin birth by one professor, one got like would just say the most universal stuff, universalist stuff ever. And I'd raise my hand. He's like, "I'm not saying Chandler, I'm not saying you know, he would say things like, you know, the grace of God is so big. I wouldn't be surprised that on the final day he didn't go, 'You know what? Everybody just get in here.'" >> Oh, man. And I'd raise my hand. He's like, "No, Chandler, I'm not trying to say." And I'm like, "Well, those words mean something." But here is my here's my So, I won this award I would They weren't fans of me. I wasn't fan of them. I'm sure I I was a idiot. So, I'm sure I was not always respectful and but I go to this like distinguished alumni award thing. There's three of us. Like there was me, there was this woman that had built libraries all over the world and there was this woman who had like cured some form of cancer or something. And like those two women basically praised their professors for helping them navigate their own personal crises of faith. So, the one woman who did libraries, she was super struggling with all these other world religions and then she named these two professors that she had in her tract, you know, I think it was literature or whatever that pulled her in, that helped her navigate that, that rooted her in the scriptures, that built her up in the gospel and sent her out. And then the other woman that had like cured some form of cancer was the same thing. Science was like she was deconstructing and she listed these three professors. All three of them had them over to her house, you know, brought her into their homes, showed her in the Bible, let her vent, navigated her doubts. And they were like, "These professors saved my faith." Mhm. I didn't have anybody like that. I mean, I didn't have anybody log in and show up the night I won that. And I'm curious if So, my my lived experience at a Christian school was it was the school of theology that was left, but the rest of the teachers there, they I mean, this is you know, I've just got this swatch and I've got my other friends that had other majors, they were actually being pointed to the gospel. They were being pulled in by these professors to love Jesus with all their heart, mind, and soul. And And then they'd have to sit through this Old Testament class or New Testament class. They would kind of erode at that and try to undermine it. So, I'm curious if Baylor doesn't cuz I know a couple of professors at Baylor who, man, they're just as disturbed as anybody else is and, man, they are fighting the good fight there. You've You hit it the nail on the head for sure is that there's a lot of good professors and there's a lot of good people there trying to do the right thing. Um I can't speak to Truett Seminary. I don't know anything about it other than what I have been told that there are some concerning things happening there, but I do know some of the specifics about you know, the School of Social Work at at Baylor. Definitely has some substantial problems, a lot of issues in the School of Social Work. And it seems like the things that are coming out of the School of Social Work specifically are maybe rubber-stamped by the leadership and the leadership either either it's rubber-stamped or they're looking the other way and neither is okay with me. Yeah. Because it's got Baylor's name on it. You know, and if if Baylor is going to stamp their name on a research piece that the School of Social Work's going to put out and it potentially is going to get to the point to where they encourage churches to become affirming, I have a big freaking problem with that. >> Yeah, and you should. That That That can't be allowed. And so, I may be somewhere in the middle where I'm very concerned and I want to make my voice voice heard about the things that I don't like because I'm I'm afraid that the pendulum is swinging in a direction that it should not swing from the top. Yeah. But there are still a lot of good people at the university and some of my family still go to that school and they have nothing but good things to say about their individual professors and that their professors are doing the right things and saying the right things, but you know, that doesn't mean I should bury my head in the sand when I'm hearing things and seeing things that we can't have Baylor's name on either. I agree with that. Um So, I guess one thing that I would be curious about and, you know, I mentioned the So, I know we're we're out of logs, so we got to be wrapping up here at some point and you're like a pumpkin year. You're You're way past pumpkin time. Yeah. >> past Um And I've said this before and I've wondered it aloud and I've I've come to my own conclusion. So, I'm curious for the for the two of you um you know, business context, ministry context, you know, we're we're recording this at the end of 2025 and it's been It's It's been a I mean, every year is difficult. If you just look at the news cycle or your individual life or whatever. But I look just within Christendom and I see a lot of things happening at once cuz I remember at the beginning of this year I I was asking a lot of people that came on my show. I'm like, "Hey, you have people like Richard Dawkins saying he's culturally Christian. You have Ayaan Hirsi Ali converting from Islam to atheism to Christianity. You have Wes Huff uh overnight becoming the most famous Christian apologist in the history of the planet Earth. You have Joe Rogan being Christian curious, going to church. You've got Jordan Peterson who not a believer, but potentially the most influential non-believer to Christendom in modernity. And then Phil Robertson dies. And then John MacArthur dies. And then James Dobson dies. And then Charlie Kirk is assassinated. And then Vody, freaking Vody dies. And I was just sitting there thinking about the impact of those five men. Massive. Combined decades and decades and decades of service to ministry in different forms. You know, some, you know, from a literary publishing standpoint, from a pastoral work standpoint, from a church planting standpoint, from a political standpoint. And it just felt like God is preparing us for something cuz we're in this moment where Bible sale sales are at an all-time high. Charlie Kirk dies. And there are people that sociologists that are saying atheistic sociologists saying we think the Sunday after Charlie Kirk died was the most church attendance in the history of the world. More people were in churches than any other point in human history. Which is probably true considering the population being 8 billion people. Whatever. And it just feels like we're being set up for something. And I know every age kind of feels like they're in the end times and that oh, the this prophecy is being fulfilled and we're close here and we're close there. And it just feels like something's happening. It feels like we're being prepared for something. All these important men have been taken off the chessboard. It's like they're still alive because of the ubiquity of the clips of these men and you know, the the long arms of history that will be attached to their written works and their spoken words on YouTube. All all the things, right? But I'm trying to wrap my mind around what this means because we're also hitting this cultural moment where Gen Z boys are the most conservative and Christian uh cohort ever studied. Gen Z girls is the most atheistic non-Christian cohort they've ever studied. You have Gen Z boys that are saying that getting married and having kids are their top two priorities. Those are the bottom two priorities of the listed priorities for these young women. And that's going to create all kinds of cultural and sociological issues. It just feels like we're in this interesting moment and for me as a podcaster or as Joby says as like a prophet of culture, I'm trying to prepare men for the darkness that needs to be pushed back. You being a shepherd. Preparing your your flock to be able to operate even in DFW where the rise of mosques and Islam and the spread of that is is to an insane degree. I'm just I'm just curious what what your thoughts on are are kind of kind of like where we're going. Like what is God doing? Well, I I mean that that question is always a let's find out together, but I I had a when I was getting my masters, I had a professor do this thing where he showed in American history every 70-ish years there's this massive moral upheaval where all the kind of rules about marriage, sexuality, everything gets turned on its head. And it feels like the church is going to die and it's, you know, Christianity's gone and, you know, the church in America is going to look like the church in Europe, right? That that that So and then he tracked it. So he So he goes back to the 70s and he shows it. He goes back to the 20s and he shows it. He goes back late 1800s and shows it. Goes back a little bit further and shows it. And then he says that at every one of those or around every one of those, there's a unique outpouring of the Holy Spirit in that day that flips the whole thing on its head. So you go back to the 70s. You have Time magazine saying is God dead? And then just a few years later the Jesus revolution. You had the Jesus movement fire up. You go back to the 1920s. You've got the roaring 20s. And then you have the Azusa Street Revival, which is the birth of Pentecostalism, which whoever listen to you say whatever you want about the Pentecostals, no one's reached more people for Christ globally than they have. Um and then you go back and you get the urban, you know, the the urban move where you've got everybody moving into the urban areas. You have the urban revivals with D.L. Moody D.L. Moody. Then you have the frontier revivals. Then you have the second great awakening. You have the first great awakening. And and so I think we're at the beginning of one of those. Um I really do believe if you're looking at what's going on on college campuses right now with the Unite movement. If you look at all the stuff you just said about Gen Z Bible sales. Like if you'd have told anybody in 2020 they'd be here right now nobody would believe it. I mean they would buy it by >> have even computed. No, by faith you'd be like I mean maybe God can do anything. But man, we're in it and it's it's moving faster, not slower. So now the question I'm asking is will all of these brushfires all these kind of hot spots of the spirit of God moving in our day, are they going to come together? Either in an event or are they just going to come together in a way that maybe we're in something we don't even realize it. Like it's it's a it's stunning what's going on right now. And um churches that I know that are hungry for the presence of God and serious about the mission of God are seeing unprecedented growth. Like supernatural like outpourings of the spirit. Like we had a gathering we had like a Sunday gathering in July that we couldn't even start the 11:45 because the 9:00 went so long and the 11 the 11:00 that started 11:45 didn't end till 3:00. We had a a line of people wanting to be baptized wrapped around our four Was that when Mitchell was there? >> Yeah. Yeah. And so but we also had one of those at like an all-staff gathering. We had one of those in an elder meeting. We've had one of those at a staff prayer. We've had So but that's just us. But Joby's seeing it. Like guys all over the country are seeing this and I'm wondering are we at the beginning of something that's like that great awakening that we have not seen from sea this to the other sea. Could we find ourselves in a global outpouring of his spirit maybe to prepare for him to crack open the sky and return? Or or maybe it's just another outpouring of his spirit and the the church will be strengthened and the next generation of church planting leaders and movements will begin and like Calvary Chapel born in 1970. They have churches all over the world. The Pentecostals are all over the world. These are things that were born of a supernatural outpouring of the Holy Spirit. An awakening. And I think we might have be at the beginning of one. That's I'm so pumped about that right now. All my energy's there. What What What can I do with any influence God's given me to throw fire on that, to lead our church, to avail our hearts to be a receptacle of that. Um when I was studying the Book of Revelation, David Campbell writes in in his book Mystery Explained. He writes about these bowls that are in the throne room of heaven. They're mentioned three times in Revelation. And the bowls hold the prayers of the saints. And Campbell was writing about how when those bowls get full they get poured out on the earth. And could it be that those bowls are at a tipping point? And that the prayers of the saints for the last 50, 60 years for the soul of America, for the soul of the world are about to be poured out on the globe. I hope they are, man. I hope that's what Now more than that come Lord Jesus come. Maranatha. But man, I'm I'm I really think that all this stuff we're seeing is just the beginning of something bigger. I'm not sure I'm going to have anything specifically profound to add to that. And I hear coyotes in the background. So we might need to get our thermals and go take some of those coyotes out. We might >> We we we might have some thermals. So we should we should do that. But uh the only thing I'll I'll add to that like if the bowls are full and they're about to dump over and we've just lost all of these men, you know, these really important men that that guide us and have helped us through this process. Your ministry, your ministry Joby, other guys like you you're mission critical to be able to keep us on the right path because you know, now men young men Gen Z are they're getting their information from podcasters now and they're and they're going to see Rogan go on this journey. And thank God that he is going on this journey, right? You know, he is he's he's he's he's he's he's going towards something. I don't but at the same time he's going to say some things that are a little bit off and different. Like the other day he was on a podcast and he was talking about potentially AI being Jesus coming back, you know? And it's like okay, I you know, I'm not sure I'm on I'm on I'm not on board with that. But at the same time he's kind of trying to figure things out. But we need guys like you to be able to keep us on the right path because the pendulum has swung to a really neat point where there's a lot of guys are going to be saying some cool things, saying some interesting things. But we need you guys to do what you do to keep us you know, centered in on the right way. When I think with cuz we we made a joke. It's like what does it take to be a professional podcaster? Like a microphone a microphone and you can buy a crappy one. I started the first I think three or 400 episodes of this podcast, Landon don't laugh. Um is hey, Landon's here by the way. For anyone that doesn't know, Landon's been here the whole time. >> whole time. He's been under a blanket over there. And now this fire's down, man. Landon, come eat some cheese or Landon, do you want to come eat some cheese on camera? I don't know. Come on. Come on. Come on. >> Those things will eat, bro. Fine. >> Those things will eat. >> They're pretty delicious. But I bought a $50 snowball microphone off of Amazon and I hooked it up onto one of the shelves of one of my closets and that's where the podcast started. And so, you can start a podcast for almost nothing. But the the way that I look at it, I look at a guy like Shawn Ryan who went on a spiritual journey and uh uh expressed publicly his Christian faith and then immediately you had all a lot of the fundy guys, a lot of the super like hyper-reformed fundamental guys, like they just love to nitpick every word that's ever uttered by someone publicly and to break it down and to explain why it's bad and you had all these heresy hunters like going after Shawn Ryan. And my understanding is that, you know, really bothered him cuz he's This is a guy that is a baby deer in his Christian faith and then he has these guys that, you know, they're they're getting their mustache wax out as they're drinking their IPA and they're like, "Well, that's not correct because this, that, and the other thing and whatever." And I I'm obviously perfectly okay with calling out uh ministries and in specific ministers and people that seem to be wolves in sheep's clothing and all of that. But I think part of what I'm doing i- from from my perspective is when you see the rise of pseudo-Christian-ish adjacent people like a Nick Fuentes or like you people like that that will say, "I believe in God. I believe in Jesus." and then they also say, "Hitler was kind of a cool guy." You know, stuff like that. It's to give guys like, "Look, I know you're excited and you're looking for a place to attach your s- excitement to. But the further you get away from the word of God and the further you get away from fervent shepherds that are exegeting the scripture, not isogeting it, the the further you're going to get away from God's calling not just for you, but for humanity in general. And so, yes, I'm here to equip men to push back darkness and the way that I do that is by talking about, you know, things on my show that are faith, culture, politics, not always in that order, not always a third, a third, and a third. And I'm just trying to give guys that are that don't have the time that I do to study what's going on in culture, don't have the time that you do to prepare a sermon and and study the Bible, to give them something that they can attach to that goes back to the one truth that humanity can hang its hat on and that's the gospel of Jesus Christ. And so, that that is the that's the issue and that's the calling and that that's why if I do get any negative feedback, that's why if I if I get the the the mean nasty comments or the the angry emails or DMs or something like that, if it takes me away from the heading that I'm on, that is my reminder to go back to the heading because it's what is required in this moment. And I have to remember my motivation from the beginning is, "God, this is your microphone. This is your laptop. What do you want me to say? What do you want me to say to the people? And if I only have an audience of one, you're the consumer, so let it be honoring to you." It's same thing John Tyson said when he spoke at 11:22 when he was a butcher when he as a teenager. He's like, "Lord, if no one sees these cuts today, you see these cuts made. May they be the best cuts that I am capable of. Praise you." Uh and I think that's the thing that helps us kind of stay on the heading and like for you and your your ministry, it's kind of the same thing. It's like, "What can you do to aid in this as opposed to detract from it?" Yeah, I'm I'm I'm 51 now. I'm not not. I'm like like I'm more dad than brother. And so, let me play my fatherly role. Let me speak life into what's behind me. Let me build it up and encourage it and walk alongside it and celebrate it and like take the wisdom from wins and losses and successes and failures and pour it into what's behind me and uh strengthen the moment we're in. I'm just going to say thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for what both of you guys do and for being willing to put yourself out there and I'm hoping that Kyle can find the mental fortitude to wake up in the morning and maybe You got to wake up in the morning to do it. >> That's going to happen. That's definitely going to happen, but all all kidding aside, I'm very thankful for the two of you because Matt as as I've talked on my show about and told you, you were one of the first pastors that I attached myself to in college, Kyle Perkins, who's like, "You got to listen to this guy down in Texas." And following your ministry, you know, when the explicit gospel came out like the powering that and those types of things. And to be able to to call you friend and to be able to say, "Hey, we're going to be doing this hunting thing where we're probably going to record it. Do you want to come up?" And it's the easiest yes in the world. You're like, "Yeah, just give me the dates." And then Adam, one of the earliest uh defenders of Undaunted Life and supporters of Undaunted Life and not just, you know, from a hey a donation here and there kind of a thing or hey how can I help you, but just the encouragement because when I talk about guys in my life that are not afraid to interrupt me, you're one of those guys and I I mean that like colloquially, but I'm just like, "You're not going to like stand by if you feel like I'm doing something incorrect or if you feel like I'm getting off of the path that I purport publicly to be on." Even when I'm wrong. Yeah, well, and that's the thing is that, you know, we we have our moments where, you know, uh you've come to me with something and it ended up being wrong or it but the same has gone back in both directions and so, I I can safely say uh that Undaunted Life would not be what it is right now without the two of you. Y'all are like cornerstone men to this ministry for a lot of reasons that you know and for a lot that you don't. So, I'm very thankful to you guys, but uh I think that we've uh we've uh got the fire that's almost out. It's It's about that time and we do got to wake up early cuz you know, it's it's completely inappropriate to not wake up early and get out in the woods. So, >> I would never do such a thing. I wouldn't. >> I wake up every time. All right, guys, let's get out of here. >> See you guys. Thank you for listening to this podcast. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate, and leave us a positive five-star review. If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an email to info@undaunted.life. That's info@undaunted.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way. Just go to www.undaunted.life. And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for our content. The music on this podcast is their song Perpetua, which is off their self-titled debut album on Facedown Records. The links are in the description. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience, keep seeking the lion of Judah. >> [music]