How to Engage Pro-Abortion Arguments (Ep. 257)

0:00 "This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.

0:21 I'm your host Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.

0:24 Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you, and before you were born, I consecrated

0:28 you.

0:29 I needed you a profit to the nations."

0:32 That's Jeremiah 15.

0:33 Guys, thanks so much for listening to the podcast today.

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0:46 like you, generous guys like you, that are getting together to donate, whether that's

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0:58 for you that we would love for you to consider giving to what we're doing with our ministry

1:01 so we can continue to equipment around the globe to push back darkness.

1:04 But today, guys, we're going to be getting into a very sensitive subject for a lot of

1:08 guys, but you know, it's something that I talk about here on the podcast almost monthly.

1:12 You know, something comes up in the area of abortion, but this one is, this one's going

1:16 to be different.

1:17 So we're not going to really be going over a lot of news.

1:19 This one is going to be tangible.

1:21 I want you guys to start becoming more and more comfortable with engaging pro-abortion

1:26 arguments, and that's what they are, they're not pro-choice arguments, they're pro-abortion

1:29 arguments, right?

1:31 And we've done some things like this in the past where we've taught you how to, you know,

1:35 kind of argue in different things and informing you and keeping you up to date on the news

1:38 is one of the ways that we continue to do that as well, but we want to get really, really

1:41 practical.

1:42 But before we really get into what we're going to be talking about today, I know that this

1:45 subject might be upsetting for some people.

1:47 Okay.

1:48 The point is not to upset you because I know our audience is mainly male, but we do have

1:52 some women here.

1:53 The point is not to upset you, the point is to equip you because for the most part, the

1:57 church is on a terrible job of doing that, right?

2:00 And so that's kind of the second reason why I'm talking about this is because pastors

2:03 won't talk about abortion in detail.

2:05 I mean, the church that I go to in the last, you know, three, four years that I've been

2:09 there, I think the pastor has talked about this subject for, you know, five or six minutes.

2:13 The church I was at before then for over a decade, the pastor spent zero minutes talking

2:18 about this subject.

2:19 And so what happens is a lot of people that are in the churches, they get, you know, spun

2:22 up by these pro-choice arguments and they're like, well, that sounds plausible, but it's

2:26 not plausible.

2:27 It's deadly.

2:28 And so that's one of the reasons we're talking about this as well, but also want to be cognizant

2:30 of this as well, because this has come up in the past.

2:33 I know the statistics around abortion.

2:36 And so it is very highly likely that some of the women that are listening to this right

2:40 now have had an abortion and that, you know, some or a lot of them in that have that are

2:45 listening to this have stood by and allowed an abortion to happen or paid for one or drove

2:50 someone to get an abortion, you know, dropped them off and picked them up, kind of a situation.

2:54 And the thing is, is again, today is not about making anybody, you know, feel upset, but it's

2:58 not about anyone feeling condemned either, right?

3:02 The idea is that Jesus died for those sins as well.

3:04 And it's not really the idea.

3:06 It's the reality, right?

3:08 So if you had an abortion or you've sat by and you let an abortion happen, let someone

3:11 kill your baby, Jesus died for that as well.

3:15 You do need to repent of that sin.

3:16 You need to ask for forgiveness for that sin, but again, that's not the point of the podcast

3:20 for today.

3:21 Now, I also want to tell you that we're not going to be able to spend a lot of time on

3:23 certain subjects.

3:24 You know, we're not going to be able to get in to, you know, the jurisprudence around

3:28 the Roe v. Wade decision, right?

3:29 We don't really have time to get into that.

3:31 Also we're not going to really be talking about, you know, the history of pro-life or

3:34 pro-abortion movements in the United States.

3:36 You know, some of that might get weaved into the content here.

3:38 You know, we're not going to be able to get into the current Texas and Mississippi abortion

3:42 laws that are all the way up to the Supreme Court.

3:44 You know, those decisions aren't really going to come down for quite some time.

3:48 If, you know, there's any indication coming from what's gone on with SCOTUS previously.

3:52 So we've got a lot of time to think through that.

3:53 We're not going to be able to talk about in vitro fertilization.

3:56 I know that that's a lot, you know, you might think that's not really, you know, related

3:59 to the abortion discussion, even though it kind of is, we don't really have time to get

4:01 into that.

4:02 This is what we're going to be discussing today on this.

4:04 This is how we're going to equip you in this subject matter.

4:06 The first thing is we're going to go over abortion by the numbers, okay, because I think

4:09 a lot of guys, a lot of people in general have no idea what the numbers are when it comes

4:13 to abortion.

4:14 Then we're also going to get into detail into very popular abortion procedures, because

4:19 again, I think most people don't have any idea what actually happens in an abortion.

4:22 And then the, the meat of our time today is going to be spent talking to you about how

4:26 you can engage pro abortion arguments because we have to go on the offensive with a lot

4:32 of these things.

4:33 So abortion by the numbers, abortion procedures, and then engaging pro abortion, pro abortion

4:36 arguments.

4:37 So let's get into the very first thing, abortion by the numbers.

4:39 So we're going to go off, you know, 2020 for some of these statistics, but let's start

4:42 for the world.

4:43 And 2020 around 73 million babies were killed worldwide via abortion, 73 million.

4:52 That's according to the Goodmon Goodmonker Institute.

4:55 And just as an aside here, I'm going to try to get all of these different things I'm

4:58 referring to, all the different numbers into the show notes, even if I don't refer to them

5:01 at the end, I want to kind of like show my work on all these things.

5:04 But even if I don't say, Hey, this is where that sack came from, know that it came from

5:07 a reputable place, I'll try to make sure that's all in there.

5:09 So it's nice and professional buttoned up for you.

5:11 73 million babies were killed worldwide in 2020 using abortion.

5:14 But as a point of comparison, heart disease killed about 19 million people.

5:20 That's according to the journal of the American College of Cardiology.

5:23 Cancer killed around 10 million people worldwide.

5:26 That's according to the World Health Organization.

5:28 And then people that died with COVID, right?

5:31 Because a lot of these people didn't die specifically from COVID because they had so

5:34 many other comorbidities.

5:36 That was around 3 million people in 2020 died.

5:38 That's according to the World Health Organization.

5:40 So 73 million abortion, 19 million heart disease, 10 million cancer, 3 million with COVID.

5:45 Right?

5:46 So that's about 200,000 babies a day were slaughtered in the womb.

5:48 And worldwide, about one fourth of all pregnancies ended in abortion.

5:53 And that doesn't include, you know, people that miscarried, so that's not included there.

5:56 These are people that were going to do something with that child, either allow it to be born

6:00 or kill it.

6:01 One fourth of all pregnancies worldwide ended in abortion.

6:06 But now let's go to America, right?

6:07 The country where I reside in 2020 around 850,000 babies were aborted and as a little

6:13 quick aside here, I'm not being super specific on these numbers, like to the exact number.

6:17 And I don't do that by any means to diminish the importance of any of those individual

6:22 lives.

6:23 Obviously, but a lot of these numbers are hard to get perfectly exact.

6:26 They change by the day, you know, if you're doing up to date stats or something like that.

6:30 So I'm doing, you know, I'm just kind of trying to stay in the pocket there a little bit.

6:33 So in America, 850,000 abortions in 2020, that's about 2,600 per day.

6:39 And since Roe v. Wade in 1973, over 60 million babies have been murdered just in the United

6:45 States.

6:46 Okay.

6:47 And then Planned Parenthood, which we'll get a lot more into here in a little bit, they

6:49 killed around 320,000 of that 850,000 babies last year in 2020.

6:56 That's essentially one child every 97 seconds was killed by Planned Parenthood.

7:00 One child every 97 seconds.

7:03 So that's abortion by the numbers.

7:04 But now let's go ahead and get into abortion procedures.

7:07 So there are two types of abortion procedures, okay?

7:10 There are chemical abortions, and then there are surgical abortions, okay?

7:14 So all of these methods of abortion that I'm about to describe to you are currently legal

7:19 in at least some places in the United States, okay?

7:21 So I'm not going to, you know, creating any straw men here.

7:23 These are legal procedures, but let's go and get into chemical abortions.

7:27 So the first one I want to talk about is my first tone or are you 486?

7:30 This is otherwise known as the abortion pill, so I'm going to be reading these to you because

7:34 it's a little bit, you know, specific to, I want to be specific to the medical side

7:37 of what these things are.

7:38 So my first tone blocks the hormone that helps develop the lining of the uterus during pregnancy,

7:43 progesterone.

7:44 This lining is a source of nutrition and protection for the developing baby.

7:48 The baby is starved to death and then a second drug, my supposed all causes contractions

7:52 so that the dead baby is expelled from the womb.

7:55 So when people talk about the abortion pill, you know, the thing that they're trying to

7:58 put in like vending machines in the state of California, that's my first tone.

8:01 That's what people are talking about, okay?

8:03 Then we have methotrexate.

8:05 This highly toxic chemical directly attacks and breaks down the baby's fast growing cells.

8:09 It also attacks the life support systems the baby needs to survive.

8:13 When the systems fail, the baby dies.

8:14 My supposed all is then used to cause contractions to push the dead baby out of the womb, okay?

8:20 Then we have salt poisoning.

8:22 This technique is used in the second and third trimesters.

8:24 The abortionist sticks a long needle into the mother's womb.

8:27 The needle contains salt, which is then injected into the amniotic fluid surrounding the baby.

8:32 The baby breathes in, swallows the salt and dies from salt poisoning, dehydration, brain

8:37 hemorrhage and convulsions.

8:39 Taking nearly an hour to die, the baby's skin is completely burned, turns red and deteriorates.

8:45 The baby is in pain is in pain the entire time.

8:49 The mother goes into labor 24 to 48 hours later and delivers a dead baby.

8:54 And the last chemical one that we're going to be talking about here is called prostaglandins.

8:57 So this is used during the second and third trimester.

9:00 Prostaglandin abortions involve the injection of naturally produced hormones into the amniotic

9:05 sac, causing violent premature labor.

9:08 During these convulsions, the baby is often crushed to death or is born too early to have

9:12 any chance of surviving.

9:15 So there you go.

9:16 Those are chemical abortions that are legal here in the United States of America.

9:19 But now let's move on to surgical abortions.

9:20 So in terms of surgical abortions, there's basically what I'm going to call the 3D's.

9:25 And so that's dilation and carotage, otherwise known as DNC, dilation and evacuation, otherwise

9:31 known as D and E, and then dilation and extraction, otherwise known as D and X.

9:36 So let's go ahead and talk about dilation and carotage, otherwise known as DNC.

9:41 So essentially what happens here is the abortion is inserts a suction tube or a suction catheter

9:47 into the uterus, right?

9:49 The suction machine is then turned on.

9:51 And this suction machine is incredibly powerful.

9:53 It's like 10 to 20 times the power of what you would have in like a household vacuum

9:57 cleaner.

9:58 Okay.

9:59 And so the suction tube basically rapidly tears apart the preborn child, right?

10:04 So just tears it into pieces because it's so powerful.

10:07 The body of the child and the placenta, they are basically squeeze through this tube and

10:12 down into the suction machine and basically into a trash can.

10:16 The leftover parts, because this is not an exact science, you know, in terms of sucking

10:20 the baby out like that, the leftover parts then in the placenta, leftover parts of the

10:25 child and the placenta, rather, they can lead to infection or bleeding inside the mother.

10:29 So basically they take this tool called a curate and they go in and they scrape the lining

10:34 of the uterus or uterus, which can cause a tremendous amount of damage to the woman,

10:38 even though it's already, you know, caused deadly damage to the child, but they basically

10:41 scrape the scrape the lining of the uterus to make sure the rest of the baby parts and

10:45 the placenta have come out.

10:46 Okay.

10:47 So that's dilation and keratage, D and C. But now let's talk about dilation and evacuation.

10:52 Okay.

10:53 This is D and E. This is a very, very common second trimester abortion.

10:56 So basically a sofa clamp.

10:58 So if you think about sofa clamp, this is something that when you clamp it on to something

11:01 it's meant to pull, it's meant to, you know, it has teeth so that things can't be taken

11:06 away from its grasp, essentially.

11:08 So sofa clamp is inserted into the uterus and the abortion starts looking around for

11:12 arms or legs.

11:13 It's looking for limbs to rip off.

11:14 So one by one, the limbs of the baby are actually removed violently.

11:19 They're ripped off of the body of the baby.

11:22 So the abortion is, uh, then removes the spine.

11:24 It removes any other, you know, the hearts and lungs, any of the other intestines.

11:28 It's basically removing things from the center abdomen of the child.

11:31 But the hardest part, most difficult part about this particular abortion for the abortion

11:35 is, is getting the skull out.

11:37 Okay.

11:38 Because the skull is not big enough at this point to get through, uh, to get through

11:41 that, that area, you know, the, the body hasn't opened up the vaginal canal.

11:44 So that the, the head can come out easily.

11:47 So what they do is is, uh, they, they essentially insert that clamp again and the head is grasped

11:54 and then they crush it, they crush it into pieces so that they can pull it out piece

11:57 by piece.

11:58 And then just like with a D and C, D and C, there's a curate that is used to scrape the

12:03 lining of the uterus to remove any other parts.

12:06 And then this is kind of the, the horrible horrific thing, essentially what they do to

12:09 make sure they've gotten all the pieces of the baby out because again, with a, with a D

12:14 and E, this is a pretty much a fully formed baby when this is being done, uh, that just

12:19 needs to grow a little bit more.

12:21 They will actually piece it together like this, you know, macabre puzzle on the table

12:26 to make sure they have all the pieces of the baby because, you know, oh, you know, we

12:29 only have one arm, we need to go back in and scrape some more because I think the other

12:32 arm was left in there.

12:33 So that's basically a D and E.

12:36 And we have a DNx, so a DNx, a dilation and extraction, that's a partial birth abortion.

12:41 Okay.

12:42 So the thing about this particular procedure is this procedure is still legal in the United

12:47 States.

12:48 Okay.

12:49 And now some people might have automatically say, well, what about, you know, the partial

12:51 birth abortion ban act of 2007.

12:54 That's something that people commonly know about.

12:56 That was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States.

12:58 The thing about this is how a DNx typically happens is they will pull the baby out by

13:04 its feet.

13:06 They will leave the head inside of the vaginal canal, basically inside the woman.

13:11 They will make an incision on the back of the baby's neck with scissors or a really sharp

13:16 tool.

13:17 And then they will jam a suction tube into the baby's brain.

13:20 They will suck the brains out while the head is still inside the woman.

13:24 And then once that has happened, once the baby has been murdered, they're going to pull

13:27 the rest of the baby out and then essentially throw it in a trash can.

13:30 Okay.

13:31 I'll be thinking, wait a minute, I thought partial partial birth abortions were banned now,

13:34 but it's very, very easy for doctors to get around the partial birth abortion act of 2007.

13:41 Essentially, doctors can avoid breaking the law by first injecting the fetus with a lethal

13:47 intra cardiac toxin.

13:48 Okay.

13:49 And this kills the baby before they pull it out.

13:51 Okay.

13:52 So essentially they're doing a partial birth abortion, but beforehand, they're just injecting

13:55 the baby with some horrible toxin that kills them.

13:58 Now, I will say this just as a generic side note.

14:03 I'm sure when I described a partial birth abortion or a DNx that that made some of you

14:07 very, very uncomfortable, right?

14:10 You know, it bothered you way more than when I was describing a DNC or a DNA, okay?

14:16 And that is evidence of a seared conscience, okay?

14:20 Because late term abortions, let's just be real.

14:23 Late term abortions aren't more wrong or more barbaric than other abortions.

14:28 They're just messier, right?

14:30 They're just more disgusting.

14:33 They're just more ooey and icky and gooey.

14:35 That's essentially what those things are.

14:37 But also, if you listen to this podcast for any length of time, you remember what I talked

14:41 about on episode two, 21, keeping babies alive just long enough to harvest their organs.

14:45 And that's post birth abortions.

14:47 So go to episode two, 21.

14:49 If you want a super deep dive, I'll make sure that link is in the show notes as well,

14:52 or you can just scroll until you get to episode two, 21.

14:55 This was information that was gathered by the Center for Medical Progress, and it was

14:58 talking about how the University of Pittsburgh is getting taxpayer money, US taxpayer money,

15:03 to harvest the organs of unborn and born babies, okay?

15:08 So as of right now, the latest data I could find is they've received $2.7 million worth

15:13 of US taxpayer funding of the 3.2 million that they applied for, okay?

15:17 So the doctors and scientists at the University of Pittsburgh are doing what they can to essentially

15:21 keep babies alive longer after they have been removed from their mothers so that they can

15:26 more effectively harvest their organs so that they can profit from it, okay?

15:31 So the University is targeting fetuses, you know, from the from six weeks of gestation

15:35 all the way up to 42 weeks of gestation.

15:37 So this program is, you know, disproportionately targeting black babies, which is something

15:40 that a lot of people should, you know, rightfully be, you know, up in arms and crazy about.

15:45 But this is being done so that multiple parties, right?

15:48 Not just the University, but so that multiple different parties can profit from the sale

15:52 of these parts, okay?

15:53 So there's actually a key quote from this press release that I want to get into here

15:56 and it's that if the fetus's heartbeat and blood circulation continue in a labor induction

16:01 abortion for harvesting organs, it means the fetus is being delivered while still alive

16:06 and the cause of death is the removal of the organs.

16:11 So the translation of this is most of these babies are murdered via abortion while the

16:15 others are murdered after they've been born AKA infanticide.

16:19 But the reality is is they're being killed because their organs are being removed.

16:23 So so think about this, these babies are alive.

16:26 They are 100% alive.

16:28 And what is killing them is the fact that they, their organs are being removed while

16:31 they're still alive.

16:32 Think about that in a context of, you know, a child that you have, or think about that

16:36 in the context of yourself or something like that, imagine being killed by having your

16:40 organs removed.

16:41 It's like some sort of dystopian novel, right?

16:44 But here's the big point, you know, why did I spend so much time going into, you know,

16:48 surgical abortions and chemical abortions and all those different things?

16:51 This is the main point in the big point that I want you to get from me describing that.

16:55 Okay, it's not just to be needlessly, you know, grotesque.

16:59 The big point is that the baby feels these abortions when they happen.

17:07 The baby feels pain.

17:09 Okay.

17:12 We have an overwhelming amount of data that says that a baby feels pain inside the womb

17:17 at 12 weeks.

17:18 Okay.

17:19 But you might be saying, well, that didn't some of the stuff you described happened before

17:22 12 weeks.

17:23 There is some circumstantial data and there's some data that is yet to be corroborated.

17:26 And there's probably a reason behind that that would suggest that a baby can feel pain

17:31 way earlier than 12 weeks.

17:33 We're talking maybe even like five, six weeks of gestation before many women even realize

17:37 that they're pregnant.

17:38 And the way they do that is they will actually actually if they need like a, you know, a blood

17:42 sample or something like that, and they need to prick the heel of the baby to get a blood

17:45 sample or something like that, the baby will actually recoil from that stimulus.

17:49 Okay.

17:50 And they're, they wouldn't recoil if it was a neutral stimulus.

17:53 They're recoiling because the pain is being felt and they're reacting to it.

17:57 So when you think about these abortions, think about you being sucked through a suction tube,

18:02 right?

18:03 And ripped into pieces.

18:06 Think about, think about you being, you know, just kind of chilling there and someone getting

18:10 this big tool, this big grasping tool and ripping off your limbs one by one and then crushing

18:16 your head and being able to feel all that.

18:19 Cause that's what the baby in the wound feels.

18:22 But guys, now we're going to get into really the meat and potatoes and what we're going

18:24 to go through today.

18:25 And that's engaging pro abortion arguments.

18:28 This is so incredibly important because again, I've talked to Christians.

18:31 I talked to people that would consider themselves to be card carrying pro life members, right?

18:35 Like that's, that's who they are.

18:37 And then they get one bit of pushback.

18:40 And then all of a sudden they're like, well, I never really thought about it that way.

18:43 I guess we can kill babies in certain circumstances and it's absolutely absurd.

18:48 But that's why we're here to equip you.

18:50 But the first part that I want to give you is a lot of people really complicate the pro

18:53 life argument, but I want to keep it simple.

18:55 Okay.

18:56 Let's keep the pro life argument very, very simple.

18:58 So Matt Walsh actually put this in a book and we're talking to the authors here in about

19:01 a month.

19:02 And so you'll be able to learn more about that.

19:04 It's called what to say when it's by the guys that run 40 days for life, but he wrote the

19:08 forward for that book, Matt Walsh did.

19:10 And this is how he, you know, encapsulates what the pro abortion argument is.

19:13 Other people have done this, but I'm using his words specifically.

19:16 It's two parts.

19:18 Part one, abortion intentionally and directly destroys innocent human life.

19:23 Part two, it is always wrong to intentionally and directly destroy innocent human life.

19:29 That is the pro life argument.

19:31 It is that simple.

19:32 Okay, so I'll just say it again, as one statement, abortion intentionally and directly destroys

19:37 innocent human life, it is always wrong to intentionally and directly destroy innocent

19:41 human life.

19:43 Okay.

19:44 So again, before we get into each one of these individual arguments, because I'm going to

19:46 basically throw out, here's the argument, you know, here's the reality to that argument.

19:51 And then I'm going to give you some things that you can say in response.

19:54 But as a side note, pro-abortion people see Christians and conservatives as easy targets.

20:01 But we, we are such easy targets for them because we're so nice.

20:06 And this is just one of those issues that we can't just be nice about this issue, right?

20:12 That doesn't mean you have to be a jerk about this issue, but we can't just be nice.

20:16 We have to go on the offensive without being needlessly offensive, if that makes sense.

20:21 Because this isn't an agree to disagree scenario, right?

20:24 There's a reality to what's going on with the abortion procedure and to whom it's happening

20:29 too, right?

20:30 And again, I say this all the time.

20:32 I'll say it until I'm blue in the face.

20:33 But a lot of Christians and conservatives never find a hill we're dying on.

20:37 And at some point they wake up and realize that the war has passed them by.

20:40 It is now over and they've lost.

20:42 They've never picked up their helmet.

20:43 They never put on their shield.

20:44 They never took up their sword and the war is over.

20:47 This is going to be one of those areas where we're going to draw a line in the sand.

20:51 And if you're going to be a Christian, if you're going to, you know, claim to have a

20:54 discipleship relationship with Jesus Christ, you cannot in any way, shape or form be pro-abortion.

21:00 Okay?

21:01 So let's go ahead and get into the first thing here.

21:03 We're going to talk about arguments from the Bible because we have to start, you know,

21:05 where do we even get our foundation for the reason why we shouldn't just slaughter people

21:09 at random?

21:10 Okay?

21:11 So here's what the Bible has to say about the kind of the area of abortion.

21:13 We'll start with Genesis 1, 27.

21:17 So God created man in his own image in the image of God.

21:19 He created him male and female.

21:21 He created them.

21:22 Okay?

21:23 So that is the basis for the Amago day.

21:25 As the basis for how we get people to look at other people as someone created in the

21:30 image of God is Genesis 1, 27.

21:33 And then I'll go ahead and repeat Jeremiah 1, 5 that I said from the top of the podcast.

21:37 Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you.

21:39 And before you were born, I consecrated you.

21:41 I appointed you a prophet to the nations and then Psalm 139, 13 through 16 is similar to

21:45 it.

21:46 For you for my inward parts, you knitted me together in my mother's womb.

21:50 I praise you for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.

21:53 Wonderful are your works.

21:54 My soul knows it very well.

21:56 My frame was not hidden from you.

21:57 When I was being made in secret, intricately, intricately woven in the depths of the heart

22:01 of the earth, rather, your eyes saw my unformed substance.

22:05 In your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as

22:09 yet there was none of them.

22:11 So guys, that is the basis for why we are so anti what's happening with abortion, because

22:18 we see there in scripture and there are other places as well that we have the Amago day.

22:22 We have the image of God written on us on our souls from the moment that we come into

22:26 being more on that here in just a second.

22:29 But also while we're developing in the womb, we have value to God.

22:34 So that's the basis of the biblical argument for why we should be against abortion.

22:41 But there are a lot of people that don't want to hear anything about the Bible.

22:44 They look at the Bible is just this collection of writings by these old patriarchal men, you

22:48 know, that wrote these things down and it's been passed down over time.

22:51 Oh, man, it's been translated so many different times that we just can't trust it.

22:54 And oh, that's just, you know, something from a bygone era.

22:57 So there are people that won't even listen to you when it comes to biblical arguments.

23:00 So we need to still tell these people biblical truths.

23:04 We still need to stand on the foundations of the gospel.

23:06 But at the same time, a lot of people want to hear arguments from science, logic and reasoning.

23:11 So we've got that covered as well.

23:13 Now, if you're going to enter into a conversation or a debate with somebody that's talking about

23:17 the subject of abortion and they are pro abortion and you're arguing from science, logic and

23:21 reasoning or whatever, one thing that you should expect is that the pro abortion person

23:25 is going to constantly jump around.

23:28 You know, they're going to go to different arguments and topics.

23:31 You know, during this discussion, you have to be ready to do that because here's the deal.

23:35 They have to do this because their position is the one that's untenable.

23:40 When they start losing one particular topic, as you'll see here in a second, I'm going

23:43 to very easily lay it out for you, how you can destroy the majority of their arguments.

23:47 The moment they start losing, they're going to move the goalposts.

23:50 They're going to start looking somewhere else.

23:51 So let's go and dive in.

23:53 Here's one of the first arguments you see.

23:55 We don't know when life begins.

23:57 We don't know when life begins.

24:00 But the reality of this is we do know when life begins.

24:04 We do know that.

24:06 And here's the thing.

24:07 Many pro-lifers will say something like, I believe that life begins at conception.

24:12 I believe that it begins at conception.

24:14 We need to stop saying this.

24:15 And I'm guilty of it as well.

24:16 I've said that.

24:17 I've said that even recently.

24:18 I believe that life begins at conception.

24:20 But again, we don't believe it.

24:21 We know it.

24:22 We know it to be true.

24:23 So I'm going to go through some quotes here that kind of prove this point.

24:25 This quote is from a guy named Dr. Jerome Lejeune.

24:28 So he is a world-renowned scientist and physician.

24:31 He's also been given the nickname the father of modern genetics, okay?

24:35 So this guy absolutely knows what he's talking about when it comes to embryology, okay?

24:39 Here's a quote from him.

24:40 "The fact that after fertilization has taken place, a new human has come into being is

24:45 no longer a matter of taste or opinion.

24:48 It is plain experimental evidence."

24:50 Unquote.

24:51 So if that's from the father of modern genetics, but let's go ahead and get into some stuff

24:55 as well.

24:56 I found some stuff from a 1988 embryology textbook, okay?

24:59 So this is the Essentials of Human Embryology.

25:02 This was written by Keith Moore.

25:03 Here's a quote from that quote.

25:04 "Human development begins after the union of a male and female gamete or germ cells

25:10 during a process known as fertilization, conception.

25:14 Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm, the sperm

25:17 at zoan, with a secondary oocyte, the ovum, and ends with the fusion of their pro nuclei,

25:23 the haploid nuclei of the sperm and the ovum, and the mingling of their chromosomes to form

25:27 a new cell.

25:28 This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning

25:33 or primordium of a human being."

25:36 Unquote, okay?

25:37 And guys, just so you don't think I'm cheery picking from some just random things, there

25:41 was a 2018 academic study done.

25:43 So very, very recently, by the University of Chicago, there was a researcher named Dr.

25:47 Stephen Jacobs, and they found that 95% of biologists affirm that life begins at fertilization,

25:55 95%, okay?

25:57 And the other 5% weren't presenting any otherworldly earth-shattering data to suggest why they

26:02 didn't believe that it started then.

26:04 And in that 95% cohort, that included super majorities of scientists who self-identify as

26:11 pro-choice or liberal, okay?

26:14 They absolutely identify in that way.

26:16 So I want to put this very, very simply.

26:18 To say that the fetus isn't alive, which is what some people are going to argue, to say

26:22 that it's not alive, from the moment that it's a one-celled zygote is just ridiculous.

26:27 And because we know things about what's happening with the fetus, the fetus is growing, the cell

26:32 division is taking place, the unborn baby is processing nutrition, that there are a lot

26:36 of things happening inside there.

26:38 And none of those biological processes happen in a non-living entity, none of them.

26:45 Like a rock doesn't do those things, a microphone doesn't do those things, a water bottle doesn't

26:49 do those things.

26:50 The bottom line is scientifically speaking, life begins at conception, right at conception,

26:56 period.

26:57 Okay?

26:58 So I'm going to give you some ideas.

26:59 And just so you know, with a lot of these arguments, something I should have mentioned

27:02 from the very top here, I haven't just made up a lot of these arguments.

27:06 Some of these things have kind of come from my brain, but there are some books I'm going

27:08 to talk about here at the end that I've gotten a lot of these ideas from.

27:11 So I've already mentioned one, you know, what to say when by the guys over 40 days for life.

27:15 There's a abortion book by RC Sproul, there's a lot of arguments that I've gotten from other

27:18 pro-life people, but I'm kind of coalescing these things down so that it's practical

27:22 for you.

27:23 So, but when people are talking about this particular issue and they're saying, Hey,

27:25 we don't know when life begins, here's how you should respond.

27:28 And on all these responses, I'm going to give you questions to ask them.

27:31 Because the way that you go on the offensive is you need to put the person you're talking

27:34 to your opponent, if you will, on their heels, because again, their position is the one that's

27:38 not tenable.

27:39 So we need to just pound these positions so that we can destroy them.

27:43 Okay?

27:44 So I'm going to respond to that.

27:45 Is do you think we can know when life begins?

27:49 Do you think it's knowable when life begins?

27:52 And if they say, yes, just ask them, how would we go about finding out when life begins?

27:57 Because that's going to give you a very, very good idea where they land on this issue.

28:02 Because they're going to tell you, well, this is how we can figure it out.

28:04 Or maybe they don't actually mean that.

28:06 Maybe they don't think it's actually knowable.

28:08 So that's a very, very good way to deal with that particular pushback.

28:12 Now the next argument that you'll hear is it's not a human life.

28:15 It's just potential life.

28:17 It's just a clump of cells.

28:20 Now the reality of that is, is we are all clumps of cells.

28:24 We're not just clumps of cells, but we are all clumps of cells, even today.

28:29 We just happen to be much bigger clumps of cells than the babies that are growing in

28:33 the womb.

28:34 That's the only difference.

28:35 Okay?

28:36 So how to respond to someone that says, hey, it's just a clump of cells because that's

28:38 something that you do here quite often.

28:40 The first question I would ask that person is, what do you mean by potential life?

28:45 What do you mean by potential life?

28:48 That's going to give you a really good idea as to what they mean by the words potential

28:51 and what they mean by the words life.

28:53 As we just described, we know scientifically that life begins at conception.

28:57 We know that biblically as well.

28:59 What do you mean by potential life?

29:01 But then here's another thing and that this is a great way to look at it.

29:04 As they say, okay, it's just a clump of cells.

29:06 You can respond by saying, are the cells living?

29:10 Are they living cells?

29:11 Again, that's not an opinion answer.

29:13 That's either yes or no.

29:14 And the correct answer biologically speaking is yes.

29:18 They are living cells.

29:19 So they have to answer yes.

29:21 And when they answer yes, you ask them this follow up.

29:24 What species of cells are they?

29:28 Because we're arguing that these are living humans, like, are they arguing that they're

29:33 a living ficus or a living Volkswagen or living any other species of anything on the planet

29:39 here?

29:40 So are the cells living?

29:41 The answer is yes.

29:43 What species are they?

29:44 What species of cells are they human?

29:47 So they are living human cells.

29:49 And then I guess the last thing that you could say, and this is just a general way to respond

29:52 to somebody that's making this argument is, okay, so when does life begin?

29:57 When does life begin?

29:59 Now for a lot of people, they kind of have their ways that they're going to answer that

30:02 and they're going to go up and down with it, but you just got to put them in a corner.

30:05 They have to answer the question.

30:06 They say, oh, you know, it's just a clump of cells.

30:08 It's not a living anything.

30:09 Okay.

30:10 Well, then when does life begin?

30:11 Put them on their heels.

30:13 The next argument I'm going to go through here is it's not a human being.

30:16 It's a parasite.

30:17 Now, I'm sure you've heard something like that, but the reality when someone says that is

30:21 this person doesn't know what a parasite is, okay, because the thing is, is a parasite

30:26 definitionally is an organism that is different, that is a different species from its host.

30:33 It's not the same as a toast.

30:35 There's no such thing as a human parasite onto another human.

30:38 Now some people in your life might feel that way, but that's not really what we're talking

30:41 about here at this, at this point.

30:43 There's no such thing as an intro species parasite, right?

30:47 There's not a mule parasite for a mule kind of a thing like that.

30:50 Those things don't happen.

30:52 So how I would respond to somebody that says it's not a human being, it's a parasite is

30:55 I would ask him this question.

30:57 Can you please explain to me what a parasite is?

31:00 Because again, they're, they're making a biological declaration that, oh, it's just a parasite.

31:04 It is a parasite, get them to define it for you, right?

31:07 And another way that I would respond to them, another question is when does it biologically

31:11 turn from being a parasite to a human being?

31:16 Because again, they can't escape this question.

31:18 They're saying it's not a human being when it's in the womb.

31:20 It's just a parasite just sucking life off the mother.

31:23 Okay, great.

31:24 When does it turn from a parasite into a human being?

31:29 And again, we're going to get into some of those arguments because I'm sure you've already

31:31 thought about some of the responses, but that's a very, very important question that you have

31:35 to get them to answer.

31:36 It's because they're claiming that it's biologically something different in the womb than what

31:41 it really is.

31:42 Peg them on it.

31:43 Make them say it.

31:44 All right.

31:45 The next one that a lot of people will say is it's not a person until it's viable.

31:48 Okay.

31:49 It's not a person until it's viable.

31:50 But the reality is is the viability argument crumbles under its own weight.

31:54 It has to.

31:55 Okay.

31:56 So this is how I would respond to this.

31:58 If someone says it's not a person until it's viable.

32:00 Are you aware that many babies are able to survive and thrive outside the womb at 21

32:06 weeks of gestation?

32:08 Are you aware of that?

32:10 Because we have a lot of cases of babies as young as 21 weeks again, typically a baby

32:14 is around 40, 41 weeks before they're born, right?

32:17 That 21 weeks half that time they're able to survive and thrive outside the womb.

32:22 It's not a tremendously high percentage of those babies across the globe that can be saved,

32:26 but it's certainly possible.

32:27 We have the technology to do that.

32:29 They probably weren't aware of that.

32:30 That's why you should ask them.

32:32 Another question I would ask is, what about the babies that are killed after the point

32:36 of viability?

32:38 Because they're saying again, this is their argument.

32:40 It's not a person until they're viable.

32:44 Well, they're viable around 21 weeks.

32:47 So what about the babies that are killed in abortions after 21 weeks?

32:50 Are those wrong?

32:53 As the level of technology increases and the level of gestation lowers in terms of what

32:58 we can do to save a baby, like does that change your opinion?

33:02 So if 10 years from now a baby can survive outside the womb at 19 weeks, is it now inappropriate

33:08 and morally wrong for us to kill a baby after that point, right?

33:12 Because in the past few decades, we've shaved, I think like five or six weeks off of the

33:16 viability of a baby used to, you know, they couldn't survive outside the womb.

33:20 If they were earlier than 27, 28 weeks, now it's 21.

33:23 So you just got to ask them, what do we do with those babies that are killed after them?

33:27 What are those?

33:28 What happens then?

33:30 And the last question I would maybe ask someone like this is, is it fair to say that you believe

33:34 that you cannot be a person worthy of protection until you're viable?

33:40 And this is an important one.

33:41 This is the one that's going to hit them right in the butt and they have no idea.

33:44 They have no freaking clue.

33:46 Because the reality is, is if they believe this, that's not a person until it's viable,

33:52 you've got to get them to admit that that person is not worthy of protection.

33:56 And then you ask them some follow up questions, like, is a newborn baby viable?

34:04 Is someone that's two weeks old outside the womb, is that a viable human being or do they

34:07 require a lot of, you know, help in order to survive?

34:12 Is a toddler, you know, my wife and I have a toddler right now, he's not viable, but

34:16 you have to ask them, is a toddler viable?

34:18 Can they live on their own or do they need help?

34:22 And then throw it away to the other side of the spectrum is an elderly person on live support

34:27 or somebody with a tremendous disability viable that machines keeping them alive.

34:34 That's definitely not viable.

34:37 But the overall reason why you would ask them these questions guys is if you apply the standard,

34:42 whatever the standard is, if you apply any of these arguments to a baby in the womb,

34:46 you also have to apply it to humans of any age.

34:51 Because if you apply that standard to a living human being, which we've already established

34:54 in the womb, why would you not also apply that to a three week old, to a 12 year old,

35:00 to an 80 year old?

35:02 Again, it doesn't wash when you're talking about this from a logical standpoint.

35:06 Okay, it's not rational.

35:08 Let's go to the other arguments that you hear a lot of.

35:11 Here's one.

35:12 It's not a person until it's sentient.

35:13 It's not a person until it's sentient.

35:16 The reality is, is the sentience argument, just like the viability argument, crumbles

35:20 under its own weight, okay?

35:21 So the definition of sentience, because that's not a normal word that we use in modern parlance,

35:25 for the most part, it's the ability to perceive one's environment and experience sensations

35:30 such as pain and suffering or pleasure and comfort, okay?

35:34 So this is how I would respond to someone saying, oh, it's not a, it's not, you know,

35:37 a human until it's sentient is I would ask them what does sentience mean?

35:40 Because if you're going to make these sentience argument, you better know what it means.

35:44 So that's the first one.

35:45 The second thing I would ask them is if you're in a coma, this is the bench peer argument

35:48 that you've probably heard, if you're in a coma from which you might awake, would it

35:52 be okay if I killed you?

35:54 Because when you're sleeping, you're technically still sentient, but when you're in a coma,

35:58 you're not sentient.

36:00 You're just not, you can't perceive your environment.

36:02 You can't experience sensations like pain or suffering or pleasure or comfort.

36:05 Like you're in a coma.

36:07 So you're saying that they're not human when they're not sentient.

36:10 So you should be okay.

36:12 If I were to kill people that were in comas, if I walked into hospitals right now and just

36:16 started picking off people that were in comas, you should feel completely okay with that.

36:20 No big deal.

36:22 And then the last thing that I would say or add to that, which really kind of drives

36:25 home that point even further, is if you have a mental disorder, would it be okay if I killed

36:29 you?

36:31 Because there are a lot of people that have mental disorders that significantly have

36:36 altered views of their own environment, which again, gets back to the definition of what

36:40 sentient is, so if you have a mental disorder, would you be okay if I killed you?

36:46 Would that be okay?

36:47 Again, these people, you're putting them in the seat of someone that's going to have

36:49 their life taken.

36:50 They're not going to be very comfortable with that.

36:52 Again, if you apply the standard to a baby in the womb, you also have to apply it to

36:55 a human of any age.

36:56 You're saying that the baby inside the womb is not sentient, right?

36:59 Which, which also isn't true because they do feel pain.

37:02 They feel these different stimuli.

37:03 They feel trauma at the same time.

37:05 Again, you have to put them on their heels.

37:07 Another argument that you'll get is it's not a person until it's born, okay?

37:10 It's not a person until it's born.

37:12 The reality is this argument has no foundation, no foundation whatsoever, not a biology, not

37:18 a theology, not in reality, nothing.

37:21 This is how I would respond to someone that says it's not a person until it's born.

37:25 Does the vaginal canal confer personhood?

37:28 In other words, does the vaginal canal create a person?

37:32 Like what's magical about the vaginal canal, right?

37:36 From a birth standpoint.

37:38 And then I would also ask them a question like this, what is it just before it enters the

37:43 vaginal canal?

37:44 Because you're saying it's not a person until it's born.

37:48 So right before it's about to crown, right?

37:50 Right before it's going to come out of the woman's body.

37:52 What is it then?

37:53 They've got to answer that question.

37:56 That's a very, very important thing that they have to reckon with.

37:59 And then the last one I would ask here is, would it be fair to say that you are 100% in

38:04 support of abortion up to the moment of birth?

38:08 This is where you're putting them on their heels because now you're bringing up late term

38:12 abortion.

38:13 You're bringing up 40, 41, 42 week abortions, right?

38:16 The baby can live anywhere on the planet.

38:18 It's just currently residing inside the belly of the woman, right?

38:21 Because you say if it's not a person until it's born and they can't define what exactly

38:25 it is before it's born, then you should be okay with abortion at that point, right?

38:31 This one here that a lot of people talk about is abortion should be safe, legal, and rare,

38:35 right?

38:36 So I think that was coined back in the Clinton administration, you know, with Bill and Hillary

38:39 Clinton, safe, legal, and rare.

38:42 But the reality of that, you know, that's argument is not made nearly as much anymore.

38:45 It's, you know, abortion for any reason, for whatever reason, and you should pay for it.

38:48 But the reality of that statement is that statement is a useless slogan.

38:51 It's absolutely useless, safe, legal, and rare.

38:54 Let's go ahead and talk about each one of those.

38:55 So the first one is safe.

38:56 This is how we respond.

38:58 Is the abortion safe for the baby or the fetus, whatever you want to say, fetus is just Latin

39:02 for offspring, right?

39:03 Is the abortion safe for the baby?

39:06 The only answer for that is no, of course, it's not.

39:09 Let's talk about legal.

39:11 If abortion is morally neutral, why do we need to have laws around it?

39:16 That makes no sense at all.

39:17 We don't need to have laws around abortion if it's just a morally neutral thing.

39:21 And then last thing, you know, rare, why should abortions be rare?

39:26 Why should they be rare?

39:28 Abortion is the most common surgery on the planet, but we don't say that other surgeries

39:33 should be rare.

39:34 I think the second most common surgery is gallbladder surgery.

39:37 Would you say that needs to be rare?

39:39 Hip replacements need to be rare, removing a mole that could be cancerous.

39:43 Should that be rare?

39:45 You wouldn't say those things because the reality is, guys, is either the fetus is not

39:49 a human person and has no moral significance whatsoever, or they are an innocent human

39:55 person whose life we cannot justify taking.

39:58 Those are the only two options.

40:00 And imagine that this is from the, what's to say, when book, I thought this was great.

40:04 Imagine saying, yeah, you know, Africans are human persons, so we should only subject them

40:08 to slavery and rare occasions, safe, legal, and rare.

40:12 It's ridiculous.

40:13 It makes no sense.

40:14 But a lot of people say, let's move on to the next one here.

40:18 What about if abortion is necessary to save the life or health of the mother?

40:23 You hear that one a lot.

40:24 People scream it.

40:25 So that's why you get it with a, you know, an exclamation point and a question mark.

40:28 But the reality is, and this is huge, abortion is never medically necessary to save the life

40:34 of the mother, never medically necessary.

40:38 And this gives a lot of people pause, even on the pro life side, they're like, wait a

40:40 minute, wait a minute.

40:41 I thought abortion was necessary to save the woman's life.

40:43 I thought that was like a common thing that most people knew, no, not the case.

40:49 But people will bring up, they'll bring up cancer, ovarian cancer, stuff like that.

40:53 They'll bring up preeclampsia, they'll bring up a choreo amnioinitis, right?

40:58 Which is like, it's the amniotic fluid getting an infection, right?

41:01 It could be potentially deadly for baby and mom, you know, then you hear a lot of people

41:05 talk about tubular or ectopic pregnancies, but there's a reality here.

41:08 So let's go back to cancer, you know, ovarian cancer has talked about a lot.

41:12 Killing the baby via abortion only delays mother's cancer treatment.

41:17 Because if you go through the process of putting her through the surgery of killing her baby,

41:21 you could have been giving her treatment for that cancer at that point.

41:25 Because the reality is, you can actually receive treatment with baby still in the womb.

41:30 With what we're able to do now with, you know, kind of pinpointing accuracy in terms of what

41:34 we can do with cancer treatments, we've even seen, I talked about this before on the podcast

41:38 over in the UK.

41:39 They actually removed a womb from a woman's body during surgery so that they could, you

41:43 know, I think they were removing cancer from her abdomen area.

41:46 They put the womb back, showed her up and the baby's alive today.

41:50 We have the medical capabilities of pulling these things off, so you don't have to kill

41:53 the baby to get rid of the cancer.

41:56 And then when you talk about preeclampsia, you know, preeclampsia, preeclampsia, rather,

42:00 it happens usually after 20 weeks of gestation, right?

42:03 That's when preeclampsia typically happens.

42:06 So in those instances, you don't have to kill the baby to say, Mom, you just deliver baby.

42:11 It's like, Oh, I've got a, you know, 25 week old fetus, but I have preeclampsia.

42:15 Okay, let's kill the baby so that we can treat my preeclampsia.

42:17 That makes no sense.

42:18 You just deliver the baby.

42:20 Okay.

42:21 Then you have a Coriomneonitis, which I described again, there you don't have to kill the baby

42:24 to save mom.

42:25 You just deliver the baby to take care of the Coriomneonitis.

42:28 But then the last one where a lot of people kind of get, you know, pulled up on is tubular

42:31 or ectopic pregnancies.

42:33 So the reality about tubular or ectopic pregnancies, that's basically where the baby doesn't make

42:37 it out of the fallopian tube, it gets stuck in the fallopian tube.

42:41 This is very, very dangerous.

42:43 Okay.

42:44 And around 93% of ectopic, ectopic pregnancies, there is not a fetus in the fallopian tube.

42:52 Okay.

42:53 You know, it's human parts that have kind of fallen apart.

42:57 It's not an intact fetus.

42:58 You know, the fetus has already died by the time the ectopic pregnancy has been diagnosed,

43:03 right?

43:04 That that's almost 100% of cases.

43:06 Okay.

43:07 But for those where it doesn't happen that way, the reality is that the baby cannot survive

43:13 without being moved from the fallopian tube to the uterus.

43:17 The baby simply can't survive.

43:18 It cannot grow in the fallopian tube.

43:20 It needs to be implanted in the uterus.

43:21 Okay.

43:22 But currently and unfortunately, there are no standard practices around this procedure.

43:27 Okay.

43:28 You know, it'd be great if we, you know, took, you know, the half billion dollars we give

43:31 to Planned Parenthood every year and put into this area like, Hey, on an ectopic pregnancy,

43:35 if we find it, how can we actually move the baby from the fallopian tube into the uterus?

43:38 There've actually been doctors that have pulled that off before they were able to flush the

43:41 baby into the uterus.

43:42 It's incredible.

43:43 But again, there's no standards around that.

43:44 But again, we have to go back to this.

43:46 We have to go back when you're talking about all these different things because how you

43:49 deal with an ectopic pregnancy normally is you take the fallopian tube out, which kills

43:52 the baby.

43:53 But again, here's the argument part one, abortion intentionally and directly destroys innocent

43:59 human life.

44:00 Okay.

44:01 And then part two was it's always wrong to intentionally and directly destroy innocent

44:04 human life.

44:05 But if you're doing surgery for an ectopic pregnancy, you are not intentionally and directly destroying

44:10 innocent human life.

44:12 That is a byproduct of what you're doing to save mom's life.

44:16 Okay.

44:17 The intent of surgical intervention or surgically intervening for an ectopic pregnancy is not

44:23 to kill the baby.

44:24 It is an unfortunate byproduct of trying to save mom.

44:27 That's the reality.

44:28 Okay.

44:30 The doctor is trying to save two lives when they're treating a mother for any of those

44:33 reasons that I talked about earlier, any of those ailments.

44:36 They're trying to treat both people because both people want to survive, right?

44:42 Given their options.

44:43 And so that's what the doctors are to do.

44:45 So this is how I would respond to somebody that says it's medically necessary for some

44:48 women to get an abortion.

44:49 I would ask him this.

44:50 Are you aware that abortion is never medically necessary to save the life of the mother because

44:54 you were going to get the craziest look because they're going to be like, this dude is crazy.

44:58 This dude is absolutely nuts because obviously it's a well known fact that abortion is necessary

45:03 in some cases.

45:04 It's simply not.

45:05 I would also go ask him this, if the woman's life or health I'm using air quotes is at

45:10 risk air quotes again after birth, after birth, can we murder the child then too?

45:17 Because a lot of people talk about the health of the mother.

45:19 They're not talking about her life.

45:21 They're talking about the health of the mother, which doesn't just stay in the physical realm.

45:25 They extend that to emotional health, financial health, relational health, right?

45:30 So that's why I say they're at risk, right?

45:32 But what about after birth?

45:36 Can we murder the child then?

45:38 You're throwing this back in their face, right?

45:41 Because they'll say things like, you know, you only care about the life and health of

45:44 the mother while she's pregnant.

45:45 You don't give a crap after.

45:46 Well, let's talk about after the kids two years old and that kid staying alive is going

45:51 to affect this woman's health because she just wants to kill this little thing, right?

45:54 It won't shut up.

45:55 It won't do it.

45:56 She says, keeps crap in itself.

45:58 Why can't we kill it then?

46:00 Because you're saying this is necessary to protect the health of the mother.

46:05 Her mental health is important.

46:07 Can we kill her two year old?

46:09 Throw it back in their face and then I'll go ahead and throw this in at the end here.

46:13 Another question you could ask him is since concern for the mother's health only accounts

46:16 for around 4% of all abortions, are the other roughly 96% of abortions morally wrong?

46:24 Again, they'll be shocked to realize that around 4% of abortions are potentially because

46:29 the mother's health is at risk.

46:31 They probably think it's way higher than that, probably 10 times higher or more.

46:34 But then you have to ask them, "Okay, we can talk about those 4%, we'll put those over

46:39 here."

46:40 What about the 96% of all the other abortions?

46:42 Are those morally wrong?

46:43 You got to get an answer to that.

46:45 Here's another one.

46:46 This is one of my personal favorites, no uterus, no opinion.

46:49 So, if you're a guy, you can't have an opinion or an abortion, right?

46:53 The reality of that is this is intellectually dishonest because they're okay with the opinions

46:58 of pro-choice males.

47:00 I mean, duh, they love your opinion if you agree with them.

47:04 Most people would say that.

47:05 "Oh, you agree with me?

47:06 I like your opinion.

47:07 Oh, you disagree with me?

47:08 You probably shouldn't be able to have one."

47:09 So the fact is, it was an all-male Supreme Court that legalized abortion in 1973, right?

47:15 The overwhelming majority of abortions that take place in the United States are done by

47:20 abortion doctors that are male, right?

47:23 The overwhelming majority of abortion facilities are owned by men.

47:26 Most of the politicians that pass and enforce pro-abortion laws are men.

47:30 It's rife with men that think you should be pro-choice, otherwise known as pro-abortion.

47:33 So, this is outright discrimination against humans with Y chromosomes, otherwise known

47:38 as males that disagree with them.

47:40 That's what this is.

47:41 Every human being should be absolutely entitled to their opinion on any issue regardless of

47:46 how potentially inflammatory it is, okay?

47:47 So, this is how I would respond to someone that says no uterus, no opinion.

47:50 I would ask them this.

47:51 What about the millions of women that agree with me?

47:54 There are roughly more women in the pro-life cause than there are men.

48:00 That's unfortunate, but it's true.

48:02 So what about the millions that agree with me?

48:05 You're saying my opinion sucks, but we share the same opinion, those women and me.

48:10 So what's the difference?

48:11 I would also ask them this, and this is not to me meant to be tongue in cheek.

48:14 This is meant to be literal.

48:15 Don't even smile when you say it.

48:17 If I identify for a woman, or sorry, if I identify as a woman for the remainder of our

48:22 conversation, do I get to have an opinion then?

48:26 Because now you're attacking a worldview, a foundational part of this person's worldview,

48:30 because again, painting with a broad brush here, but if you're pro-choice, otherwise

48:34 known as pro-abortion, you're probably okay with the rest of the LGBTQ+ array of thinking,

48:40 that worldview.

48:42 So make them be the bigot and say, hey, look, I'd like to identify as a woman for the remainder

48:47 of our conversation.

48:48 So is it okay for me to have an opinion now?

48:51 Now that that's pretty ballsy to kind of go there that does kind of poke at the worldview,

48:55 which may or may not go well for you, but that is something that you can say.

48:58 But now we're going to get into the subject or really the argument that you hear the most

49:01 often.

49:02 This is the one that you most often hear from people that are pro-abortion.

49:05 My body, my choice, my body, my choice.

49:08 But there's a reality here.

49:09 This is very, very important.

49:11 Abortion destroys a completely separate body.

49:17 Abortion destroys a completely separate body.

49:21 Because guys, you know, I talked about earlier, if you need a blood or tissue sample from

49:24 baby from the fetus, it has to come from the fetus.

49:27 Like you don't take a blood sample from mom in order to get a blood sample for the baby.

49:31 Why?

49:32 Because it's a separate body with its own blood.

49:35 You know, from the time it's a one-celled zygote, it has its own DNA.

49:39 You know, it develops its own organs, its own skin, its own fingerprints, its own fingernails,

49:44 its own everything inside its own body from the time it's a one-celled zygote.

49:48 Like that moment, we know how tall you're going to be, you know, it's, you know, you're

49:51 not going to change your, we know what eye color you're going to have, you know, the

49:55 coarseness of your hair, the hair color, all those things are known at that exact moment

49:58 that your one-celled zygote, all that information is there.

50:01 So you've probably heard the old adage or by now, which is, you know, my right to swing

50:05 my fist ends where your nose begins.

50:08 You probably heard something similar to that.

50:10 That still applies to the living human that's in the womb, and 100% still applies.

50:14 Because basically you're right to choose what you do with your body ends where that other

50:18 human body begins.

50:19 Okay.

50:20 So the reason for that is, is this, this is why this is really, really important.

50:25 The abortion does not happen to the woman.

50:28 It does not happen to her.

50:31 It happens to the living human that's inside her womb.

50:34 Okay.

50:35 Again, I thought the book, the book what to say when really broke this down really, really

50:38 well, the abortion impacts the woman's body secondarily, okay?

50:45 The primary impact of the abortion is to the baby's body inside the womb.

50:50 The woman's body is simply the setting for the abortion, which seems like a really, you

50:55 know, terse way of putting it, but it's true.

50:57 Because the heart that is stopped in an abortion, a successful abortion, if you will, is not

51:02 the mother's heart.

51:03 It's the baby's heart.

51:04 The limbs that are torn off or are sucked out with a suction tube, they're not the woman's.

51:09 They're not the mom's.

51:10 It's the baby's.

51:11 You know, the brains that are sucked out through a tube into a trash can, right?

51:15 They're not the woman's brains.

51:17 At the end of a successful abortion, right, which is a horrible way of saying it, right?

51:22 The only lifeless body that's left after the abortion is that of the babies, not the mothers.

51:27 The mother doesn't die.

51:29 So when people say my body, my choice, they have to reckon with that.

51:31 So this is how it responded to them is in, in what other domain of society is that true,

51:36 my body, my choice?

51:38 Because again, if you decide to stop your car in the middle of the highway and pull your

51:42 clothes off and stand up on the top of your car naked and dance, you're going to get arrested

51:46 for that.

51:47 Right?

51:48 It's not my body, my choice.

51:49 If you walk into a random, you know, children's cafeteria and start punching people, you can't

51:52 say my body, my choice.

51:53 That doesn't make a lot of sense.

51:55 You can't gain access into a place or a secure area, you know, that you're not allowed to

52:00 have access to and just say, Hey, my body, my choice, that doesn't make any sense.

52:04 It's a silly, ridiculous argument, but then the last thing that I would say to someone

52:07 that says my body, my choice is, are you saying that the fetus inside the woman is the woman?

52:14 Or is that a separate human being?

52:17 You have to get them to admit to that because then they're probably going to back into the

52:19 parasite argument.

52:20 They're like, yeah, okay, it might be a separate thing, but you know, it's it's leeching off

52:24 the mother.

52:25 So it's not really even real.

52:26 You can't protect something like that.

52:27 It's a parasite.

52:28 Right?

52:29 Again, they're going to move the goal post.

52:30 So you have to be ready for that, but you have to ask the question anyway.

52:33 Another argument you'll get is do you think that you can force women to reproduce?

52:38 Do you think you can just force women to reproduce?

52:40 It'll be something like that.

52:41 But the reality is, is from the moment of conception, reproduction has already occurred.

52:48 People talk about these things like, Oh, you're forced reproduction.

52:51 That's ridiculous.

52:52 That's handmade.

52:53 That's not what this is.

52:54 Everyone's against that because that's called sex slavery.

52:57 That's what little girls are being sold into right now in Afghanistan and all over the

53:01 world, frankly.

53:02 But from the moment of conception, reproduction has already taken place, it's already happened.

53:06 A new life is now in the world, taking up space brand new.

53:10 So this is how I would respond to this person.

53:12 What do you mean by reproduce?

53:15 What do you mean by reproduce?

53:17 Because again, they're not understanding the fact that this is a living human being

53:21 now.

53:22 You can't just get rid of it.

53:24 Another argument you'll hear from people is what about in cases of rape and incest?

53:29 This is a big time argument for them.

53:30 This is their ace of spades argument.

53:33 And one just quick aside before we get into the reality is if they bring this up, if they

53:38 bring up rape and incest, you're really close to winning the debate.

53:43 Just hang in the pocket.

53:45 Just hang it because you're, it's almost over.

53:48 Because this is a 100% emotional Hail Mary appeal, right?

53:53 They don't realize it maybe, but that's exactly what it is because the reality is, is that

53:57 the abortion does not erase the rape.

54:01 It only adds a trauma.

54:04 That's what abortion does.

54:06 So I've, I've seen people talk about this before, you know, women that have gotten abortions

54:09 right because they felt like they had no other options.

54:12 They have an anniversary date for their rape.

54:17 Every year when that date comes up, they're reminded of the fact that they were raped.

54:22 But when they got an abortion to get rid of the baby that was conceived during rape, there's

54:26 an anniversary for that now too.

54:30 So the anniversary of their rape reminds them of their abortion and the anniversary of their

54:35 abortion will now remind them of their rape.

54:39 These women are haunted by it.

54:41 Okay.

54:42 They're absolutely haunted by it.

54:43 And then people want to change the subject and be like, well, you know, what about the

54:46 rape is and what about all those different things?

54:48 And again, they're not going to really like my answer to that because I think that we

54:50 are way too lenient in our punishments for rape, way too lenient.

54:54 For me personally, if you're convicted of rape beyond a reasonable doubt and after appeal

54:58 and all those different things, you should be castrated and then killed.

55:02 We don't use the death penalty for rape in the United States.

55:04 I have no idea why castrated and killed.

55:07 Get them out of here.

55:08 Get them out of the population.

55:09 And if that's going to be too expensive, take them outside of town, shoot them in the

55:13 head, leave their body there for their families to gather if they want to get it.

55:16 That's what we should do to rapists.

55:18 Okay.

55:19 A child's dignity, the child that's in the womb is not tied to how we're conceived.

55:25 So if you're conceived in a loving home, right between two doting parents and you're the

55:30 third child, that's no different than someone that was conceived in a violent rape.

55:34 That child's dignity, the dignity isn't tied to that.

55:38 So this is how I would respond to people that say, you know, what about the cases of rape

55:41 and incest?

55:42 I would ask them this.

55:43 Do you think that an abortion erases a rape?

55:47 Because obviously the answer is no, but you have to get their answer that.

55:50 Do you think, you know, that an abortion gets rid of the rape as if the rape never happened?

55:54 Because that's not reality.

55:56 The next question I would ask or another question I would ask is, do you think that rapists

56:00 like abortion?

56:01 Do you think they like abortion?

56:03 Because the answer to that is absolutely rapists love abortion.

56:08 Because in a lot of cases, getting rid of the baby inside of the woman that they raped

56:13 and impregnated is getting rid of all the evidence that they even did the rape.

56:18 They freaking love it.

56:20 It's like their favorite thing.

56:22 Another question I would ask is, are you comfortable with children getting the death penalty for

56:27 something that their fathers did?

56:30 Because people don't normally frame it like that when they're talking about rape and incest

56:33 and they happen to have a pro-choice pro-abortion worldview.

56:37 Because when you say that, that means you are comfortable with the child getting the death

56:40 penalty for something that their fathers did.

56:43 And then you need to extrapolate that out to children that are now living in the world

56:47 outside the womb.

56:48 If my dad did something horrible, do I get his punishment?

56:52 If I had nothing to do with it, you have to make them answer.

56:55 Another question I would ask, and this may be the last one I'll give you on this particular

56:58 subject, is since rape and incest account for less than 1%, it's actually well less than

57:03 1% of all abortions.

57:04 It's like 0.3% of all abortions.

57:06 Are the other 99% of abortions morally wrong?

57:10 Because again, they're bringing up the Hail Mary argument.

57:12 Some people say, "Hey, you shouldn't bring this up," because it puts you in the position

57:15 where you might be having to defend the rapist.

57:17 That's by no means what I would say or do in this particular scenario, but you're bringing

57:21 up rape and incest, which accounts for a small fraction of all abortions.

57:26 So are the other 99% morally wrong?

57:29 These people would say, "Well, no, that doesn't mean they're morally wrong."

57:31 Then it's like, why are we talking about the exception of the exception?

57:34 That doesn't help.

57:35 That doesn't make any sense, and this is another thing that I've done.

57:38 This is something I've done for a group of people even here recently.

57:42 You should even keep something like this on your phone, and you feel like you're going

57:45 to get into one of these things, because I have a picture, a side-by-side picture of

57:49 two different ultrasounds, okay?

57:52 One of them is the ultrasound for my wife and I's upcoming baby, right?

57:55 So it's going to be our second son, and it's an ultrasound of him, and then the other one

58:00 is an ultrasound of a baby that was conceived in rape.

58:04 A baby that is alive today, but a baby that was conceived in rape, and I show them the

58:09 side-by-side picture, and I say, "Which one is my son, and which one is the one that was

58:13 conceived in rape?"

58:17 Just point it out for me.

58:18 This should be easy, right, because, you know, rape and incest, it's so horrible.

58:21 We got to get rid of those babies.

58:23 Just looking at these pictures alone, can you identify which one was conceived in rape,

58:27 please?

58:29 That drives the point home pretty quickly and pretty easily for these people, right?

58:33 If they're going to be intellectually honest, they have to really reckon with that.

58:36 That's a visual way for them to reckon with their worldview, which is absolutely reprehensible

58:41 and evil, okay?

58:42 The next one that I would throw out there to you is, this is an argument that I was actually

58:45 throwing out at us, is what if the baby would be born into a family in poverty?

58:50 What would happen then, and the reality is, is the financial status of a person doesn't

58:55 define the worth of a person.

58:57 It could define their net worth, but not their actual worth, so this one's kind of an easy

59:01 one to deal with, oh, the baby's going to be born in poverty.

59:03 What could happen?

59:04 Just ask them, is it better to be dead than poor?

59:08 Because that's what they're saying.

59:09 Again, extrapolate that out to people that are alive today, that are poor.

59:13 Should we kill those people?

59:14 Because gosh, poverty sucks, which it does, but do we kill the baby because they might

59:18 end up in poverty?

59:19 That doesn't make sense.

59:21 And then the next one is like it, they'll say something like, what if the baby would

59:24 be born with some sort of deformity or a handicapper or a disease of some kind?

59:29 And the reality is, is the health status of a person doesn't define the worth of a person,

59:34 right?

59:35 So just throw back in their face.

59:37 Is it better to be dead than to have blank?

59:41 Just fill in the blank with whatever deformity, handicap, and disease.

59:44 Is it better to be dead than to have any of these things?

59:47 Some of them might actually say yes, because they have no worth for human life, but you

59:50 got to have them give you an answer.

59:52 So here's another one, another argument that a lot of people will throw out because they

59:54 think it's a good one is pro-lifers only care about the baby before it's born.

59:59 They only care about the mom before it's born.

1:00:02 The reality is, is they have no metrics whatsoever that can prove this.

1:00:07 None whatsoever.

1:00:08 Okay.

1:00:09 And throw out some stats to them.

1:00:11 There are around 800 abortion clinics here in the United States, give or take.

1:00:15 There are around 3000 pregnancy and motherhood resource centers in the United States that

1:00:20 help women out before they give birth and after 800 abortion clinics, 3000 pregnancy

1:00:26 and motherhood resource centers.

1:00:28 And almost 100% of those centers are owned and operated by pro-life Christians.

1:00:33 So this is what I would respond to these people is, how do you know that?

1:00:37 You say pro-lifers only care about the baby and the mother before it's born.

1:00:40 How do you know that?

1:00:42 Can you prove that?

1:00:43 Do you have any data to support that because they don't?

1:00:46 And then also ask them this, if that were true, then why are there more pregnancy and

1:00:49 motherhood resource centers?

1:00:50 And there are abortion clinics.

1:00:53 Wouldn't it make sense that there would be an inequity there in the opposite way?

1:00:56 Right.

1:00:57 They have no good answer for that.

1:00:59 Another argument they'll throw out is even if the unwanted baby is taken to term and born,

1:01:04 there wouldn't be a family available to adopt it.

1:01:07 So we're talking about a woman that does not want to keep her child for whatever reason,

1:01:09 but they're saying there wouldn't even be a family available to adopt it.

1:01:12 The reality of this is, is there aren't too few families willing to adopt, okay?

1:01:17 There are too few babies to be adopted.

1:01:21 That's the reality.

1:01:22 There are too few babies to be adopted.

1:01:24 And the reason is abortion.

1:01:27 That's the reason because pregnant women, when given the option between abortion and adoption,

1:01:34 they overwhelmingly pick abortion.

1:01:37 It's actually very selfish.

1:01:38 They either want the baby for themselves or they want the baby to not exist at all.

1:01:43 And Planned Parenthood absolutely aids in this because you know, Planned Parenthood likes

1:01:47 to tout their numbers of adoption referrals, right?

1:01:50 And even if you buy their adoption referral numbers, which, which you shouldn't, because

1:01:54 they lie about everything, right?

1:01:55 More on that here in a second.

1:01:57 Planned Parenthood kills 116 children for every one adoption referral, 116 babies murdered

1:02:08 via abortion for every one adoption referral.

1:02:11 And most of those referrals using air quotes for that as well, ends in an abortion anyway.

1:02:19 I mean, that's the reality here.

1:02:21 Abortion is the main reason why there's such a small number of children that are available

1:02:25 for families.

1:02:26 In the United States currently, and this is according to Business Library, there are

1:02:29 around 40 couples waiting for every one baby that is placed for adoption, 40.

1:02:35 Again, we just pretend like all these babies just, they just get lost in the system.

1:02:40 That doesn't happen by accident.

1:02:43 There are 40 couples waiting to adopt, okay?

1:02:45 So this is how it responds to those people.

1:02:47 Is how familiar are you with the adoption statistics in the United States?

1:02:52 More than likely, they're not.

1:02:53 And that also is an onus is on you that you need to make sure that you're up on those

1:02:57 stats as well.

1:02:58 But then the other thing I would ask you, because this is going to come up or that you

1:03:00 should ask them rather, is, is an imperfect foster and adoption system a reason to kill

1:03:06 people?

1:03:07 Oh, the foster and adoption system is so broken and so, so crazy.

1:03:11 I've had people that I've tried to go through the adoption system thing and it is crazy

1:03:15 and it is broken.

1:03:16 So we should kill people.

1:03:18 That's your plan.

1:03:20 That's your idea.

1:03:21 We should just kill people, it's absurd.

1:03:24 Another thing you'll get is why are you so anti-plan parenthood?

1:03:28 Why are you so anti-plan parenthood?

1:03:29 Come on, they help out so many women, right?

1:03:32 But the reality is, is that Planned Parenthood is abortion.

1:03:36 That's who they are.

1:03:38 They're not about women's health.

1:03:39 They're about abortion, which is not healthcare.

1:03:43 Healthcare tries to preserve life.

1:03:44 Abortion typically, not not typically, almost always ends a life, right?

1:03:49 It's an unsuccessful abortion that allows a baby to survive.

1:03:52 Now, Planned Parenthood, they own more than half of all the abortion facilities in the

1:03:57 United States, okay?

1:03:58 So Planned Parenthood, you're in, you're out, even though the numbers for abortions are

1:04:02 coming down in the United States, which thank God for that.

1:04:04 They kill about a third of all the babies that are killed by abortion every year, okay?

1:04:08 So the thing about it is, it's kind of crazy to even think about it.

1:04:12 If Planned Parenthood was on the list of causes of death in the United States, it would land

1:04:16 right behind cancer and accidents.

1:04:19 That's how deadly, how good Planned Parenthood is at dealing death, okay?

1:04:23 So even though the rate of abortion, like I mentioned, the United States has come down

1:04:26 over the last 30 years or so, like we're at 850,000, we used to be over a million, well

1:04:30 over a million.

1:04:31 Planned Parenthood's numbers for abortions performed goes up every year.

1:04:36 Again, oh, Planned Parenthood, they just love women, they just want to help out women.

1:04:40 The rate of abortion across the country has gone down, but the rate of abortions for

1:04:43 Planned Parenthood specifically as a business has gone up, and this is a business that receives

1:04:49 around $600 million in U.S. taxpayer funding annually, right?

1:04:53 Even under the Trump administration.

1:04:55 That's nearly 40% of the total revenue for the company for the year, right?

1:05:00 A business that traffics in killing people gets almost half of their revenue from taxpayer

1:05:06 funding, right?

1:05:08 Planned Parenthood is also, a lot of people don't know this, they're in the process of

1:05:12 developing a mail order abortion program.

1:05:16 Because currently, you can go in and get the abortion pill, RE486, you can get that abortion

1:05:20 pill without ever having to see a physical doctor in person.

1:05:23 You can go to a Planned Parenthood facility, they basically do like a little Zoom call with

1:05:26 a doctor, and they give you your abortion pill that'll allow you to kill your baby, right?

1:05:30 But now they're trying to do it even easier to where you can just mail an abortion pill

1:05:34 to someone without them ever having to see a doctor, right?

1:05:38 Here's the other thing about Planned Parenthood.

1:05:39 I love, you know, crushing Planned Parenthood everywhere I can.

1:05:42 They always claim this is their big claim.

1:05:43 This is their bumper stick claim that abortion is only 3% of their business, 23%.

1:05:49 You say we're all about abortion, and you are just, you're just making things up, right?

1:05:52 Outrage about outrage.

1:05:53 You can serve it as all you Christians, you're just making up lies, but the 3% number, that's

1:05:58 what's false.

1:05:59 That's what's the lie.

1:06:00 Okay.

1:06:01 So I'm going to read a quote here that's from the, you know, former Planned Parenthood

1:06:03 employer of the year, and, you know, the, the center point of the book in the movie, um,

1:06:08 unplanned.

1:06:09 And that's Abby Johnson.

1:06:10 She said this, Planned Parenthood strategically skewed the 3% figure by unbundling non-abortion

1:06:16 services so that each patient shows anywhere from 5 to 20 visits per appointment.

1:06:21 In other words, if a woman receives 12 packs of birth control at her appointment, Planned

1:06:26 Parenthood counts that appointment as 12 separate client visits.

1:06:30 Planned Parenthood then does precisely the opposite for abortion related appointments.

1:06:34 If an abortion requires multiple appointments, Planned Parenthood bundles the appointments

1:06:38 together to count only one visit.

1:06:41 So while a trip to Planned Parenthood for contraception might count for a dozen different

1:06:45 services, separate appointments for a pre-abortion consultation, an abortion procedure, and a follow-up

1:06:50 appointment, if there is one, only count as one service.

1:06:53 Okay.

1:06:54 So they're, they're game in the numbers so they can kill more, more kids.

1:06:57 So they kill around 350,000 kids, but they provide fewer than 10,000 prenatal services

1:07:03 because you talk about all these prenatal services.

1:07:05 They don't do that.

1:07:06 They don't do pre-nails for the most part.

1:07:07 Okay.

1:07:08 You might have heard that they provide mammograms.

1:07:10 There's currently not a single Planned Parenthood facility in the United States that was certified

1:07:14 as a mammogram facility.

1:07:15 Zero.

1:07:16 So, so you might also hear someone say, but they give free cancer screenings and, you

1:07:20 know, free sexually transmitted infection tests and free breast exams and all these

1:07:24 things.

1:07:25 Guys, here's the reality.

1:07:26 Here are the numbers.

1:07:27 They provide less than 2% of the nationwide women's cancer screenings, less than 2%.

1:07:31 They provide less than one and a half percent of nationwide HIV tests.

1:07:35 They provide less than 1% of nationwide pap tests, but they deliberately kill children.

1:07:40 Okay.

1:07:41 And here's the other thing, they're more than happy to give you a free service when they

1:07:45 know that you'll eventually pay them $500 for them to kill your kid.

1:07:50 So if you're a contractor, you're more than happy to give somebody a free estimate for

1:07:54 your work because you're assuming you're going to make way more off of them on the back

1:07:57 end.

1:07:58 That's why people give away things for free because they assume they can get you to pay

1:08:01 them more money on the back end.

1:08:03 So this is how I would respond to that argument.

1:08:06 Is did you know that all Planned Parenthood facilities have an abortion quota?

1:08:11 Because they do.

1:08:12 Oh, they're, they're not about abortion.

1:08:14 They're about all these other things.

1:08:15 I don't think they have a pap smear quota.

1:08:17 They certainly have a abortion quota because they make a lot of money off of it.

1:08:22 Did you know that?

1:08:23 You should ask them this as well.

1:08:25 Do you believe that only 3% of Planned Parenthood's business is abortion?

1:08:29 Because they probably do.

1:08:31 And that's when you can explain to them how they bundle and unbundle things in order to

1:08:34 make it look better on their balance sheet every year.

1:08:37 I would ask those questions.

1:08:38 And this is the last one that I'll get into here.

1:08:39 I appreciate you guys sticking around for all these arguments because they are very, very

1:08:42 important.

1:08:43 And your pro death penalty, that means you're not pro life.

1:08:47 This is another really common one that comes up pretty often.

1:08:50 Your pro death penalty, that means you're not pro life.

1:08:52 Okay.

1:08:53 The reality is, is this is meant to distract you by equating two things that are not related.

1:08:57 Okay.

1:08:58 Because I'm going to get, I'm going to go back to the pro life argument, which is simple

1:09:01 and we should all memorize it.

1:09:03 Abortion intentionally and directly destroys innocent human life.

1:09:07 It is always wrong to intentionally and directly destroy innocent human life.

1:09:12 Okay.

1:09:13 When the state or the nation kills someone, they are typically far from innocent.

1:09:20 This person is typically guilty of murder beyond a reasonable doubt.

1:09:24 First degree.

1:09:25 Right.

1:09:26 Because we don't execute people just for raping someone, we'll execute them for raping and

1:09:30 then killing them or killing them and then raping them, whatever you're into, I guess.

1:09:34 But these people are typically very, very guilty.

1:09:36 So there's a very easy question.

1:09:37 I would ask this person.

1:09:38 I would say something so stupid.

1:09:39 It's this.

1:09:40 Are you saying that an innocent unborn child is the same as a murderer?

1:09:45 Because that's what they're implying there.

1:09:49 Because I think, you know, based on, you know, our biblical definitions of when we can take

1:09:53 a life, I think that we can take the life of somebody that has forfeited their life by

1:09:57 killing another person.

1:10:00 And you're saying that the baby in the womb is just like that person.

1:10:04 Now, they're going to, they're going to quibble with that, but that's the reality that they

1:10:07 have to get into.

1:10:08 So guys, again, we spent a lot of time on getting to those arguments.

1:10:11 And this is an episode that you should be able to go back and refer to at other points because

1:10:15 this is an incredibly good thing for you to understand and put in your brains.

1:10:19 Because if you get into a discussion about this with somebody, right, you probably can't

1:10:23 come back and just listen to this podcast again real quick, these arguments need to

1:10:26 be in you.

1:10:27 They need to be in your brain.

1:10:28 They need to be in your heart.

1:10:29 You need to be able to pull them out at an instant.

1:10:31 But I do have a couple of calls to action here before we get into the resources.

1:10:35 Three different calls to action for you specifically in terms of how you can take care of this.

1:10:40 The first thing is encourage your children to remain absent until marriage.

1:10:43 Now, you probably didn't think I was going to go the abstinence route with something

1:10:46 like this.

1:10:47 But here's the other reality.

1:10:48 And we get this from the CDC, the Centers for Disease Control, 85% of all abortions that

1:10:53 occur are by unmarried women.

1:10:57 85%.

1:10:59 That's almost all of them.

1:11:00 They occur in unmarried women and we live in a culture now where sex is really, really

1:11:05 cheap and we can get it anytime we want it for whatever reason.

1:11:09 And a consequence, if you look at it that way, of sex is a child is procreation.

1:11:14 Now, we've untangled those things now where sex is just a thing that we can do to make

1:11:19 ourselves feel good inside and outside the church, and it's not bundled up with procreation

1:11:24 anymore, right?

1:11:25 We've done that as a society, including inside the church.

1:11:28 So if we encourage our children to remain absent until marriage, the percentage chance

1:11:32 of them getting an abortion goes down to almost nothing because typically in a loving marriage,

1:11:38 when a child is conceived, that child is brought to turn.

1:11:42 So encourage your children to remain absent until marriage.

1:11:45 The other call to action is don't worry as much about making abortion illegal.

1:11:51 Make it unthinkable because I've spent a lot of time thinking about this and I still will

1:11:56 as we move into the future in terms of making abortion much, much harder to get to make

1:12:01 it illegal, to get rid of Roe v. way, to send it back to the States, hundreds of thousands

1:12:07 of children will be saved just in our country alone every single year if we're able to make

1:12:10 that happen, right?

1:12:12 An incredible amount if we make it illegal.

1:12:15 But if you make it unthinkable, that's more powerful than illegal because people do illegal

1:12:21 things all the time because they don't think they're unthinkable.

1:12:26 Why do they deal drugs?

1:12:27 Why do you speed crazy on the highway?

1:12:29 Why do you do all these different things?

1:12:30 It's because you don't think that there's something that you shouldn't do.

1:12:33 You think the law is stupid or you just really don't care, you're an outlaw.

1:12:36 You want to do things outside the law.

1:12:38 But when you make it unthinkable, that's why the numbers come down because if you think

1:12:42 about in the United States, you know, we're at only, I say only 850,000 abortions now.

1:12:46 I think the highest was, you know, 1.3 or 1.4 million children were killed in a calendar

1:12:50 year via abortion, where have we lost so many hundreds of thousands?

1:12:54 I think it's because in a lot of ways it's becoming unthinkable for a lot of people because

1:12:58 the technology we have now where you can see your baby, 3D ultrasounds, you can hear their

1:13:04 heartbeat.

1:13:05 We know more about what's happening just stationally because the trimester breakdown that came

1:13:10 from the Supreme Court was just made up whole cloth out of thin air, it doesn't become a

1:13:13 different thing from trimester one to trimester two, and then from trimester two to trimester

1:13:17 three.

1:13:18 It's the same thing, just a different level of development, just like my toddler is not

1:13:22 the same as he's going to be whenever he's 90 years old, he's the same person, he's just

1:13:28 at a different level of development.

1:13:29 But I think people are seeing this as like, oh my gosh, I can see my baby, I can, I can

1:13:33 hear its heartbeat.

1:13:34 I don't think I want to kill this thing.

1:13:36 That's why most Planned Parenthood facilities don't really have an ultrasound or if they

1:13:39 do, they have the volume turned off so you can't hear the heartbeat because that affects

1:13:43 our bottom line.

1:13:44 And the last call to action is to memorize the pro life argument, right guys?

1:13:49 I mean, you're an hour and 15 minutes in now, so you might as well keep going with me.

1:13:53 But this is what you should memorize.

1:13:55 This should be the number one thing that you take away from this podcast.

1:13:59 Abortion intentionally and directly destroys innocent human life.

1:14:02 It is always wrong to intentionally and directly destroy innocent human life.

1:14:07 Okay.

1:14:08 So that's the call to action.

1:14:09 Encourage your children to remain absent until marriage.

1:14:12 Don't worry as much about making abortion illegal.

1:14:14 Make it unthinkable and memorize the pro abortion argument.

1:14:16 I'll give it to you one more time.

1:14:18 And intentionally and directly destroys innocent human life.

1:14:21 It is always wrong to intentionally and directly destroy innocent human life.

1:14:25 So some resources I've got for you that I think you guys should check out and I'll make

1:14:28 sure these are in the show notes as well.

1:14:30 You know, you should definitely well, actually, we'll go and do the quick resilience boost

1:14:33 and all back into that.

1:14:34 So obviously, as you guys know, by now, we are a men's ministry and our mission is equipping

1:14:38 men to push back darkness.

1:14:40 And we do that by providing content like this podcast.

1:14:42 It helps you guys for spiritual, mental and physical resilience.

1:14:45 So here are a couple of websites I'm going to give you.

1:14:47 So live action and life news.

1:14:50 So live action gives you a ton, a ton of very practical ways to push back and they keep

1:14:55 you up on the news.

1:14:56 So they've got YouTube videos that will help you argue, help you learn more about the subject

1:14:59 of abortion.

1:15:00 And life news is basically up to date daily in terms of what's happening with abortion

1:15:03 around the world.

1:15:04 And then there's a couple of books.

1:15:05 There's a lot of books kind of on this space, but the two that I think are the best.

1:15:08 The first is what to say when, which I mentioned a lot in this episode, the complete new guide

1:15:11 to discussing abortion.

1:15:12 And that's by Sean Carney and Steve Carlin.

1:15:14 Those guys will be on the podcast here soon.

1:15:16 They'll be looking out for that.

1:15:17 And then also the other one is by RC Sproul, the late RC Sproul abortion, a rational look

1:15:21 at an emotional issue.

1:15:22 That book is also on our 100 books at every modern Christian Man should read list, which

1:15:26 is on our website.

1:15:27 And then in terms of our podcast, okay, here are some old episodes that I would tell you

1:15:31 to go back to if you want to have more content that's like this.

1:15:34 Episode six was called abortion.

1:15:36 Episode 78 was called answering 17 pro abortion arguments.

1:15:40 Episodes 145 and 194 were with Lila Rose.

1:15:42 She is actually the founder and CEO and president of live action.

1:15:46 So those were fantastic conversations with her.

1:15:48 And then also I mentioned earlier, episode 221, keeping babies alive just long enough

1:15:52 to harvest their organs.

1:15:53 All that is there.

1:15:54 And guys, again, I'm going to put more stuff in the show notes.

1:15:56 So some of the stuff that I said, some of the numbers that I threw out there, I want to

1:15:58 make sure you know that those are accurate numbers.

1:15:59 All right, guys.

1:16:00 Thanks so much for listening to this podcast.

1:16:01 We do appreciate it.

1:16:02 Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and review.

1:16:05 If you want to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an email

1:16:09 to info@ndontanotlife.

1:16:11 Follow us on Instagram and tick tock and like us on Facebook and you can check out our website

1:16:16 for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your

1:16:19 way.

1:16:20 Just go to www.ndontanotlife.com and as always, we want to thank the band August Burns read

1:16:24 for allowing us to use their music for our content.

1:16:27 The entrautto track is their song cutting the ties, which is off their 10th anniversary

1:16:31 re-recording of the album leveler.

1:16:33 The links are in the description.

1:16:34 I'm your host Kyle Thompson.

1:16:37 Remember keep pushing back darkness.

1:16:40 And foraging spiritual, mental and physical resilience.

1:16:44 Keep seeking the lion of Judah.

1:17:10 [Music]