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This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
0:51
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
0:52
Let's get into it.
0:53
Hi guys.
0:54
Today I've got a special guest on the podcast.
0:55
His name is Harold Crunk.
0:57
So Harold is a writer, director, and film producer.
1:00
So he's been the director of films that you're probably heard of.
1:03
God's not dead.
1:04
God's not dead.
1:05
Part two.
1:06
And unbroken path to redemption amongst others.
1:07
And then he also recently released a children's book that I'm holding on in front of the camera
1:10
right now.
1:11
And it's a children's book for young boys specifically titled The Beard Ballad.
1:15
And the foreword was written by the one and only Phil Robertson.
1:18
Guys, I really enjoyed this interview because, you know, we actually recorded this a little
1:22
bit yesterday, but there was a bunch of crazy stuff that happened with the technology.
1:24
We ended up having to scrap the entire interview and just redo it.
1:28
And I feel like the second one was even better.
1:29
We got to get in some different things because I asked him about what it was like being in
1:32
Christian filmmaking, what it was like being a Christian that does film.
1:35
So it was like being in Hollywood, can you be an outspoken Christian in work in Hollywood?
1:39
We, you know, his favorite director, we got into all that, but then we got into some of
1:42
his films and we got into, you know, why critics kind of rip Christian movies and in what we
1:46
can do as the audience to basically help, you know, how he deals with all those negative
1:50
critics and all the things like that.
1:52
But then we got into the new book and we got into masculinity.
1:55
We got into how it's very, very important to teach young boys that there's no such thing
1:59
as, as toxic masculinity in terms of how the culture is defining it, but there's a biblical
2:03
way to define it.
2:04
But as fathers, what we should do to kind of raise up our young men to be very, very masculine
2:09
and to embrace that masculine side, guys, we got into a lot of great detail.
2:13
I really, really enjoyed how this went, but I'm not going to keep them from you any longer.
2:17
So without further ado, let's get into it.
2:20
Harold Crunk, welcome to Undaunted Life of Man's podcast.
2:23
Hey, Kyle.
2:24
Thanks for having me.
2:25
I'm so glad to have you guys, you know, sometimes I let you peek behind the curtain.
2:29
We break that fourth wall or dimension or whatever.
2:32
I've technically done this interview before, but we had so many technical issues yesterday.
2:36
There was a snowstorm.
2:37
There was all kinds of crazy crap going on.
2:39
So it's going to be the first time you're hearing these answers, but I'm going to do
2:42
my best to make sure this is just as mentally enthralling for you as it should be for our
2:46
listeners.
2:47
You kind of have a unique industry that you work in, right?
2:51
So you've spent almost your entire adult life working in the film industry.
2:56
So it's obviously very sexy, very unique industry to work in.
2:59
I don't really, frankly, know very many people that do that for a living.
3:02
And I understand as a kid or when you're younger, you were into theater and you've done set
3:06
design and a bunch of different things, but for you, when did you decide to make filmmaking
3:10
a career?
3:11
Oh, goodness, my dad was a public school superintendent and my senior year in high school, I told
3:18
him I wanted to go to art school to be a filmmaker and he said no.
3:24
And I said, okay, my dad with all of his wisdom, he said, you know, go get your art education
3:29
degree, become a teacher, and then you can use your time off to pursue those other passions
3:34
and talents.
3:35
And so that's what I did.
3:37
I coached everything that I could while teaching so that I could use that money to buy camera
3:43
equipment and basically taught myself everything I could about filmmaking.
3:48
So when you're learning about filmmaking, I'm sure there are a lot of misconceptions
3:52
about what it's like working on a film or working with actors or working with producers.
3:57
And again, like the most fancy work I've done with the camera has been with one of these
4:02
with one of these smartphones, right?
4:03
So I'm sure there's a lot of things from the outside looking in that we just assume goes
4:08
on in your world, but what are some of those misconceptions about what it's like actually
4:12
working in that world?
4:13
Yeah.
4:14
So everybody thinks it's really exciting and a lot of fun, but in a lot of ways it's pretty
4:17
boring and a bunch of the productions we've done here in Michigan, you know, when we first
4:22
started our studio in Manistee, Michigan, we would have people show up on set to come
4:28
and see the movie stars and watch the film production happen and they expected to see
4:31
explosions and cars flipping over.
4:34
And after people stood around for about 10 or 15 minutes watching our group and electric
4:38
team set up lights and haul cable, they kind of meandered away.
4:43
So it's a lot of standing around and waiting.
4:47
Like hurry up and wait is kind of the thing, you know, on film sets.
4:51
And then you get to shoot for, you know, the extent of whatever the scene is, you know,
4:55
maybe 10 seconds, it could be one shot, it could be, you know, a master shot that takes
5:00
three minutes and then you start all over again with moving lights.
5:05
And so I think that's one of the biggest misconceptions.
5:07
Well, so from your perspective, and I actually didn't ask you this before, I'm just curious
5:12
for someone like you that actually makes films.
5:14
You don't just watch them because, you know, some people watch things and they think they
5:17
understand it.
5:18
It's like you can watch baseball, but you don't really understand baseball unless you've
5:20
played it.
5:21
You don't understand the nuance.
5:22
So for your money, right?
5:24
If you had to point to some of the best directors that you know, people that make films that
5:29
are just like spectacular, that even blow your mind as a filmmaker, who are some of
5:33
those people that, you know, even just inspire you because of how skillful they are.
5:37
Oh goodness.
5:38
I'm a Spielberg guy.
5:39
Steven Spielberg, for me, is just such a huge inspiration and was such a innovator and
5:46
such a maverick.
5:47
I'm a Star Wars fan too.
5:49
So the original Star Wars film, George Lucas, was, you know, very inspiring to me.
5:55
But J.J. Abrams today, I think, is really an incredible visual storyteller and someone
6:01
that I always looked up to, his writing is fantastic.
6:05
So yeah, and there's a guy Richie.
6:08
I'm a guy Richie fan.
6:09
He's a little raw, little rougher on the edges, but he always has a point of view and some
6:16
of his stylistic choices are really amazing.
6:18
I think it's interesting too when you're watching films as well.
6:21
Here I am talking as if I'm a film critic.
6:22
Let me go and pull out my pipe and my, you know, my brandy, but you know, when you're
6:26
watching films, there are a lot of films now that are visually appealing.
6:31
Like the shots look good, the excitement is there.
6:34
There's the explosions like you mentioned.
6:36
There's all this crazy stuff, but there's no story.
6:39
Like there's absolutely nothing going on like that's why I have such problems with a lot
6:43
of these comic book movies, especially the Marvel ones.
6:45
I get way more out of the darker ones like Joker or the Dark Knight stuff that was done
6:51
like with, oh gosh, who's the director, you know, the Dark Knight trilogy with Christian
6:58
Bale and all that.
6:59
I'm forgetting the director for whatever reason, Christopher Nolan.
7:01
But like you have these stories that happen where it's like there's a lot of cool things
7:05
that happen and maybe some funny things, but then it's just a letdown at the end.
7:09
Do you feel like that's kind of happening a lot more now or is that just kind of always
7:13
been a thing with movies?
7:14
Yeah, I think spectacle is something that the studios really want to have to entertain
7:19
audiences, entertain the masses, they think that's what they're looking for.
7:23
And it's really actually an interesting point because you're right, watching some of the
7:29
bigger action adventure films, some big superhero movies, when you just see these people who
7:34
are essentially gods pummeling each other, where there's no consequences and there's
7:37
no effect on them, it kind of loses its impact.
7:43
So yeah, I think concentrating on character and story structure based on character is
7:48
something that is the way that I try to connect with an audience.
7:53
Right.
7:54
Well, they're obviously doing something right.
7:55
They've made tens of billions of dollars off those movies.
7:57
But like when people ask me, hey, if you watch the new, whatever the film, the blank Marvel
8:00
movie is, I'm like, no, but I can tell you how it goes.
8:03
The world's definitely going to end.
8:04
It's the darkest, meanest person they've ever seen.
8:07
The world's going to end.
8:08
But at the last moment, this superhero that dresses up like a cat or dresses up, throws
8:13
a hammer at people, they're going to save the world at the very last moment.
8:15
It's amazing.
8:16
It's as if I'm a clairvoyant, like I know what's going to happen.
8:19
Now for you, you work obviously with a lot of Christians because you do a lot of Christian
8:22
filmmaking and we'll get more to that here in just a second.
8:25
But it seems like from the outside looking in and I don't know how much you deal directly
8:28
with Hollywood or you know, any of that stuff behind the scenes because I know Hollywood
8:32
isn't the only place that makes makes films.
8:34
But it seems like it's legitimately impossible to be an outspoken evangelical Christian and
8:40
to work in Hollywood, like to be an evangelical director or to be an evangelical Christian.
8:45
That's a very outspoken Christian that is a main actor, like an A-lister or something
8:49
like that.
8:50
I mean, maybe Chris Pratt is like the one that comes to mind or something like that.
8:54
But it doesn't seem like these people can have any long-term success if they really,
8:57
really are truly Christians.
8:59
Am I crazy?
9:00
Am I maybe buying into some sort of like conservative Twitter narrative or is that kind of how
9:04
it is?
9:05
Boy, man, that's a difficult question.
9:09
For me personally, I haven't had anyone really take me out of contention or consideration
9:15
for something because of that that I know of.
9:17
I mean, I've had a few instances with meetings in Hollywood where I could tell that the people
9:23
were maybe meeting with me more because they were curious about who this guy is that made
9:29
this movie called "God's Not Dead" and they wanted to see if I was a crazy kooky person
9:34
or something.
9:36
But I think it all depends on who you work with.
9:39
I've had the opportunity to work with some amazing people in Hollywood who could care less
9:43
what my belief system is.
9:45
They were more concerned about what my talents were and working with cast and telling stories.
9:50
When I think that goes back to when people are like, "Okay, are you a filmmaker that's
9:54
a Christian?
9:55
Are you a Christian filmmaker?
9:56
Are you a rapper that's a Christian?
9:57
Are you a Christian rapper?"
9:58
And I think the moment you put the qualifier of Christian before something, people expect
10:03
something different.
10:04
But I feel like this is maybe the appropriate time, Harold, to address the elephant in the
10:07
room, which I know a lot of people are thinking about right now, is that you made a lot of
10:11
films that were directly for a Christian audience.
10:13
You mentioned "God's Not Dead" and we'll get into some others.
10:16
But Christian films don't exactly have a great reputation for being very good or even pleasurable
10:20
to watch.
10:21
For the most part, they get crushed by critics.
10:23
So why do you think there's that stigma in reputation?
10:27
Because for my money, it can't all just be imaginary or the work of the devil or some
10:32
sort of like democratic thing that they're going to be, this cabal of negative things
10:36
towards Christian filmmaking, like why is that the stigma that we see?
10:41
Sure.
10:42
Well, I think there's that stigma because a lot of Christian films have been poorly made
10:45
or poorly produced.
10:47
And look, we've, we're called to be excellent in our craft, right?
10:53
And I think that we need to continue to work on that.
10:55
We need to promote young filmmakers who have the talents and the abilities to be in the
11:01
positions where they're making films for the studios, not necessarily Christian movies,
11:05
but just having a person with that worldview in a position of power where they're telling
11:10
stories for the masses.
11:12
And I think one of the challenges that Christian filmmakers have had over the years is the
11:18
lack of resources.
11:19
You know, you're putting up a film that was made for $4 and a bucket of chicken against
11:23
studio movies.
11:24
Obviously, there's going to be a difference in the quality of the film.
11:27
You just, you can use every trick in the book that you've learned in the independent space.
11:31
But at the end of the day, if the studio director has the super techno crane and all the bells
11:37
and whistles, and you're using a wheelchair with a guy for the camera operator sitting
11:44
in it as a dolly, what we did on God's not dead, you have some limitations.
11:49
So yeah, I mean, that's just a reality.
11:55
But I would encourage young filmmakers who are Christians out there that you have to
11:58
become a master of the craft.
12:01
You can't just run out and make a movie without understanding how to make a movie.
12:05
It's like running into the dentist office and say, okay, I'm going to do your filling
12:08
today.
12:09
You can't do that.
12:10
You have to learn all of the techniques you have to study.
12:15
You literally have to master the craft before you should be putting content out there to
12:19
be seen.
12:20
Right.
12:21
You mentioned budgets and stuff like that.
12:22
And in reality, I feel like this is a fair question.
12:25
I hope it is.
12:26
How can you, and I use that term, you know, broadly, not used specifically, how can you
12:29
expect to make the best films out there?
12:33
If you don't have access to the most impressive and talented and sought after actors and producers
12:38
and set designers, whomever, since these people typically don't want to work on quote unquote
12:42
face, you know, faith based films, yeah, it's difficult.
12:47
You have to find the up and coming actors who are going to break, who are willing to step
12:52
into that void.
12:53
There's, you know, casting is one of the most difficult things in this space because they
12:57
don't want to have that stigma of being in the Christian movie.
13:02
And it's, it's, it's sad.
13:03
It really is.
13:04
And, but I understand it, you know, there's been some really, really, not great Christian
13:10
movies made.
13:11
I know I probably made a couple of them early in my career when, you know, again, it's,
13:14
it's a learning process and lack of resources.
13:17
But yeah, so, so we just have to continue to raise our level of expertise so that we
13:23
can, so that we can connect with the talent and we have to make sure that we have stories
13:26
that, that we, that are, that the audiences are going to want to see and hear.
13:32
And at the end of the day, it comes down to the material, what the script is and whether
13:36
or not an actor of merit is going to read it and say, man, I connect with that.
13:41
That's an authentic, that's an authentic story.
13:43
That's a real person in a, in a difficult situation.
13:47
And I'm in and I want to be attached to that.
13:49
So that's really what we need to do.
13:50
We need to continue to, to build the level of our content.
13:53
Well, I know Harold that I'm perhaps cutting against the point I was making earlier.
13:56
About how I'm uncomfortable with people being a Christian blank, like I'm not a Christian
14:00
podcaster.
14:01
I'm a podcaster that happens to be an evangelical Christian that believes, you know, a Middle
14:04
Eastern Jew was raised on the third day after he was murdered.
14:07
But the thing is, is shouldn't Christian artists be the best producers of art?
14:13
Because I feel like as a Christian, you have the, the fullness of the knowledge of the
14:18
grandeur of everything because you understand the beauty and the story of the gospel, which
14:23
is the greatest true story ever told, you understand the beauty and the grandeur of
14:27
God in a unique way, because you're closer to what it means to have been created, as
14:31
opposed to looking at the world as if it was, you know, an active random chance.
14:35
And we're all just, you know, highly evolved fish or monkeys bumping into other highly
14:38
evolved fish or monkeys.
14:40
Shouldn't Christian artists like have that highest of all standards as opposed to, you
14:44
know, we can give that guy a pass because, you know, he's a Christian singer, songwriter,
14:48
you know what I mean?
14:49
Yeah, I absolutely believe that, I think that we should have that expectation of excellence
14:54
in everything that we do.
14:56
And I think a lot of it comes down to training and helping our young, our young people in
15:02
this space who have interest in this space learn about, about craftsmanship, they have
15:08
to be smart, they have to, then they have to be committed to the craft, you know, that's
15:14
the other thing is everybody wants to run out and do stuff so quick today.
15:19
Get everything up.
15:20
It takes time.
15:21
It takes time.
15:22
You have to develop those skills before you put something out there.
15:25
Absolutely.
15:26
I completely agree.
15:27
And I want to get into a couple of your films now.
15:28
You already mentioned God's not dead, which I think there's like 17 of those films now,
15:32
but you were affiliated with the first two.
15:34
And you know, the plot of the first film, as I know a lot of my audience has seen it,
15:37
but just for those of you that have not, you know, it was a college philosophy professor
15:40
named Mr. Addison played by Kevin Sorbo, otherwise known as Hercules.
15:44
And you know, his curriculum is being challenged by a new student, Josh, who believes that God
15:48
exists.
15:49
So that's kind of the first film.
15:50
And then the second film was when a high school teacher was asked a question about Jesus
15:53
in class and her response, you know, landed her in trouble.
15:55
And you kind of follow all those.
15:57
So it's a, it's a second part, but it doesn't build on the first one.
16:00
But the thing I want to talk about about those movies, because you can go watch the
16:02
movies for yourself.
16:03
If you like them or you don't like them, I don't really care.
16:05
Those movies were absolutely eviscerated by the critics.
16:10
But the audience members seemed to like it because for me, I'm a rotten tomatoes guy,
16:14
because I don't get the opportunity to watch very many films, you know, with, with kids
16:18
and with businesses and things like that.
16:20
You know, I might be able to watch the first half of a movie tonight and the second half
16:23
of a movie tomorrow, like that's just kind of how my life is with films.
16:26
So I can't take a chance on watching a done.
16:29
I just can't.
16:30
So I go to rotten tomatoes and I don't care about the critics at all.
16:32
I care about what the real people think about it, if it's not like 80% or above, I'm probably
16:36
not going to mess with it.
16:37
But with your films, with a lot of Christian films or films that are kind of in your vein
16:41
of positivity, I guess, the critics numbers are so unbelievably low, but then the audience
16:46
numbers tend to be really, really high.
16:47
There's this huge gap between the two numbers.
16:50
So for you, like, how does that make you feel?
16:52
Like do you even care?
16:53
Because I know a lot of people care about what the critics think.
16:55
Some people don't care at all.
16:56
They care about the bottom line.
16:58
You know, what do you care whenever people, you know, think about your film in a certain
17:01
way?
17:02
Yeah.
17:03
So for me, I don't.
17:05
I've never read a single review, positive or negative of any of my films because it's
17:12
just a endless whole of, you know, it just, it wouldn't be healthy, it wouldn't be good.
17:18
I mean, I have had friends say, hey, did you hear what someone's like, no, and I don't
17:22
care.
17:23
Please don't tell.
17:24
It doesn't matter.
17:25
Obviously, there's a discrepancy when you have a rotten tomato critic score of like 18%,
17:31
but your, but your audience scores in the eighties, there's probably a little bit of
17:36
bias there.
17:37
Right.
17:38
Right.
17:39
I mean, just common sense.
17:40
You look and say, okay, there's some hatred here.
17:41
That's fine.
17:42
I don't care.
17:43
What I look at is what's called the cinema score.
17:45
My films have received A or A plus cinema scores, meaning that a person who went to the
17:50
movie theater and bought a ticket with an interest in the subject matter of the film,
17:55
walked out of the theater and was pulled by someone asking them specifically what they
17:59
thought about the film.
18:01
And for me, that means that I'm hitting my mark speaking to the audience that the product
18:06
was designed for, that the story was created for.
18:10
So that's how I judge my work.
18:11
And the way Hollywood looks at it is you're right.
18:14
If the movie makes a bunch of money, then okay, well, we maybe need to take a, take a look
18:19
at this space and make sure that we have content that's going to be reaching this audience
18:23
because obviously there's an audience there.
18:26
Absolutely.
18:27
Um, I'm kind of busting up my own interview here, but you, you mentioned something and
18:30
it kind of made me think of something.
18:31
I always like to ask people that are artists because I, it makes them really, really uncomfortable.
18:34
I'm going to make you pick a favorite kid.
18:36
So as of right now, so let's say we, we, we cut your career off right at this exact moment.
18:41
If you could only leave one film, right?
18:45
So so one actual full on movie for humanity and the rest of your cat, your, your, your
18:51
filmography or whatever just disappears into the ether, you could leave one film for humanity.
18:56
What's your favorite?
18:57
Which one are you leaving?
18:58
Oh man, that's, I, I, you have to, I made up the rules right here on the spot.
19:05
You have to answer.
19:06
Okay.
19:07
Okay.
19:08
Um, it's a film I'm working on now.
19:11
I see.
19:12
It's not ready.
19:13
That, that was a, we're cutting you off today right at this exact moment.
19:17
Okay.
19:18
It's got to be one that already exists.
19:19
That's, that's the thing.
19:20
Everybody asks what, what's your favorite movie that you've made?
19:21
And it's, it's the one that I haven't made yet.
19:23
It's, it's my next film.
19:25
Right.
19:26
Right.
19:27
Um, you know, I think the answer that I'm supposed to give versus the answer that I want
19:32
to give, um, God's not dead, touched so many people.
19:36
I've heard, I've heard from, from hundreds, maybe thousands of people actually at this
19:42
point, um, what an impact that, that thing has had.
19:46
I mean, just the, the, the gods and that dead Facebook page up from people, you know, scrolling
19:51
through that and looking at what people have said about how it impacted their lives and
19:55
people that they've been associated with.
19:58
And you know, so the value of, of, of souls for me is something that's really, um, important.
20:04
So, um, yeah, the, the God's not dead film.
20:09
Like I said, we, we, we had such, such a dearth of resources for that film.
20:16
I mean, you know, everybody thinks the film was, it costs $2 million to make and that's
20:21
not even, that's nowhere near.
20:23
We didn't have half of that to make the movie.
20:26
Um, so I look back at it from a craft perspective and I see, I see all the flaws because I'm
20:32
an artist and that's who I am.
20:35
Um, but from the perspective of, of what the film did, how God anointed it and how God
20:39
used it to, to raise awareness and maybe bring people closer to him, that, that has to be
20:45
the one.
20:46
Excellent.
20:47
Now, can you actually get into the project you're working on right now?
20:50
Can you kind of give us a peek behind the curtain there?
20:53
I actually can't.
20:54
Oh, come on.
20:55
Okay.
20:56
All right.
20:57
I will force him to violate his NDA off air afterwards and you can just, you know, send
21:03
me a direct message and I'll give you the skinny on it.
21:05
But I got to say, uh, for my money, probably my favorite thing that you've produced that
21:09
I've seen has been unbroken path to redemption.
21:11
So that is, it was not really a follow up movie, but you know, the book unbroken is by Laura
21:16
Hill and brand.
21:17
And that's about the insanely crazy story of survival and resilience of Louis Zamperini
21:21
during World War two.
21:22
And it's one of my, you know, top 10 favorite books ever, maybe even top five favorite books
21:25
ever, it's on our list on our website of the 100 books, every modern Christian man should
21:29
read list.
21:30
Guys, if you have not read the book unbroken by Hill and brand, you've got to actually
21:33
do that.
21:34
You got to make sure that that happens.
21:35
But your film came after the original unbroken film from 2014, which was directed by Angelina
21:41
Jolie and written by the Cohen brothers.
21:43
So, you know, big, enormous budget film, right?
21:46
But that film didn't focus on kind of what came after, right?
21:50
Because if you know his story, like his, his plane crash, he was adrift at sea for a long
21:54
time.
21:55
He was picked up by the Japanese.
21:56
He was a POW.
21:57
That film basically focused on that part of his life.
22:00
But you focus on after he gets back.
22:02
So he's a war hero.
22:03
He's got this crazy insane story.
22:05
And you really, really focus in on that part of his life.
22:08
So I guess for you, did you feel like you had to make that film?
22:12
Because you know, the Jolie Cohen brothers film didn't really touch on that.
22:15
Is it just, you know, after he got back was more interesting to you.
22:19
You know, why, why did you do the film and the way you did it?
22:21
Sure, I love the first film, Angelina, I thought did a great job of exploring, you know, what
22:28
it was going to take for Louis to actually survive the situation.
22:33
And when I met the, when I met the producer, Matt Baer, great guy, Matt is such a talented
22:39
producer, had a wonderful time with him working on this film, you know, he talked about the
22:43
first film and why, why they didn't try to do the whole book.
22:48
And ultimately, it just, it would have been a five or six hour film because they wouldn't
22:53
have been able to do justice to all of the elements in Louis life.
22:56
I mean, I mean, literally Louis could have a third or fourth movie about his life after,
23:02
you know, path to redemption.
23:03
He just did so much.
23:04
It was a crazy, crazy life, well lived, I think.
23:10
But for me, the first film was really about Louis struggle for survival.
23:14
And the second film, after returns is the struggle for Louis soul.
23:18
And so it was a little bit more of an internal struggle when we had Sam Hunt did an amazing
23:22
job portraying Louis and all of his battling, all of his demons.
23:27
And I'm super proud of that film.
23:30
Again, we didn't have many resources.
23:32
I mean, we might have had enough money to make our film.
23:36
It was equivalent to what they had for the catering budget for Matt's first unbroken
23:41
movie, but our talented team at Universal, like everybody rolled up their sleeves.
23:47
They knew Louis story and they love the story.
23:52
And everybody just, it was not, it was a, it was a labor of love for everyone on that
23:57
set man.
23:58
Everybody just, just came together and helped tell that incredible story.
24:01
Yeah, I really love the performance of the actor that played Louis and the performance
24:05
by the actress that played Louis love interest his wife.
24:09
I think she did phenomenal, like it's almost her performance almost sticks with me a little
24:13
bit more than the other.
24:15
But for something like that, because you kind of brought this up, there are films, even
24:20
long films, like two and a half hour, you know, three hour films that feel like, okay,
24:24
they left so much on the table.
24:25
They left so much of the story on the table.
24:28
So for someone like Louis Zamperini, has there been any talk of making a series, right?
24:33
You know, kind of like a, you know, eight, 10 episode series kind of going into his life
24:38
where you can focus on, because again, he was like an Olympic level athlete, but then
24:42
he also went to war and then he was also a POW and then he became a Christian.
24:46
And then, you know, he was an alcoholic, you know, like he had all these different parts
24:50
of his life.
24:51
And you know, he's passed away now.
24:52
So I guess we can tell the totality of his story.
24:54
Has anyone even thought about doing something like that?
24:57
I'm not sure I'll have to ask Matt Baer, I'll call Matt and find out if there's anything
25:02
in the works because Louis was actually, here's a crazy thing.
25:06
He was actually lost at sea a second time.
25:10
I don't know if I knew that.
25:11
Was that in the book?
25:12
No.
25:13
No, it was not.
25:14
Later in his life, he was actually lost at sea again for like two, like 14 days with
25:20
a group of people he went on a sailing adventure with.
25:24
Like I said, man, this guy's life just was amazing.
25:28
But you want to talk about a man's man and someone who was, who just would gut his way
25:33
through any situation.
25:35
He just had this indomitable spirit.
25:37
And I just, I feel so privileged to have been able to tell, to tell that chapter of
25:41
his life.
25:42
And, and I think part of the, the thing with that film that pleases me the most about it
25:48
is, is I was told that Laura really loved the movie and, and that she had cried watching
25:55
the movie.
25:56
And I'm like, you know what?
25:57
If, if, if we're impacting the author like that, then, then, you know, our team, our team
26:01
really did, did their job and did it well.
26:04
Yeah.
26:05
Absolutely.
26:06
Because again, for someone like her, like when an author writes an autobiography like
26:10
the one that she wrote, it's almost like they know the person better than they would even
26:14
know themselves.
26:15
Right.
26:16
Because a lot of people don't have a whole lot of self reflection.
26:18
Right.
26:19
Or they, they don't spend a lot of time just sitting around in the quiet thinking about
26:22
themselves and who they are.
26:23
They're always thinking externally.
26:25
They might be asking the internal question of, you know, why am I here?
26:27
What's the point of life?
26:28
That type of thing.
26:29
But I mean, how many thousands of hours did she spend technically trying to get into the
26:33
head of Louis Zamperini?
26:35
It's absolutely astonishing.
26:37
Absolutely.
26:38
That's absolutely correct.
26:39
I would say that she probably knew Louis better than, than Louis knew himself.
26:43
Yeah.
26:44
And I mean, it's just an absolutely great book.
26:46
I mean, guys, you should definitely go and check it out.
26:47
But I do want to transition because, you know, you, you make films, but now you're dabbling
26:51
in the world of books yourself because you've got a children's book out called the Beard
26:55
Ballad.
26:56
So this is a book that you wrote for dads and their sons.
26:59
I'm holding it up in front of the camera.
27:00
I'm doing the thing guys.
27:01
I'm doing the Vanna White thing in front of the camera.
27:03
The four word was written by, you know, the patriarch of the Duck Dynasty family, Phil
27:07
Robertson.
27:08
But the thing about this book is it's unique to me and I won't spoil it for anybody.
27:12
Well, let me just back up a little bit.
27:14
I want to give you a chance in your own words and share the one that wrote this book.
27:17
What is this book about?
27:19
And what, I guess, what do you want people to walk away from whenever they read the short
27:23
book?
27:24
You, whether it's, you know, dads or moms or even little, little boys.
27:27
Yeah, I, more than anything I want to, I want dads to take away from a spent, spend some
27:33
quality time with your sons.
27:35
It's so important, you know, pouring into, into your son is going to pay huge dividends
27:40
in the future.
27:41
And it's, it's going to help form his, his future is going to help form his life.
27:47
And so the, the more that we can connect with our sons at an early age, the better relationship
27:52
we can develop with them, the, the more that they know they can trust us when they have
27:56
difficult, difficult questions that, that they need to ask about this crazy world that we
28:01
live in.
28:02
And you, and you know that they're going to come to you for the answers rather than somewhere
28:04
else.
28:05
Right.
28:06
I think that's fantastic.
28:07
So what is, what is the book about?
28:09
What's the story?
28:10
I don't want you to ruin it.
28:11
Cause it's a very short story guys.
28:12
You're going to have to pick it up.
28:13
It will be in the show notes.
28:14
But what is the story about?
28:15
Yeah.
28:16
It's about a kid who, who checks out his dad's beard one day and sees that it's growing.
28:21
And they go on a, they go on a day off a beard day as dad tells his boss, I got to take
28:27
a beard day to spend with my son.
28:29
And then some, some fun magical type stuff happens along the way.
28:35
You know, growing up I was really inspired by, by Maurice Sendak, who wrote, where the
28:39
wild things are.
28:40
He's one of my favorite authors and, and illustrators and this super talented guy, and I imagine
28:46
it's even also Dr. Seuss, so it's got a couple of those funds, whimsical, whimsical elements
28:51
to it that it's, but it's just really affirming for sons and fathers and for manliness and
28:58
going out and getting your hands dirty and, and doing manly things.
29:02
Well, let's talk about that even a little bit further because again, I have a son now.
29:05
So I'm not sure when this is going to be released, but right now he's like 19 months
29:08
old.
29:09
I've got a son that's Lord willing on the way here soon.
29:11
Again, he may already be here by the time you guys hear this episode, but I'm very concerned
29:16
about some of the things that I see that are for their entertainment.
29:19
Because if you just walk into Barnes and Noble and you go to the children's book section,
29:23
you know, right there in the front is, you know, the gay BCs and, you know, these books
29:27
about little kids that think they're the opposite gender and, you know, all this gender confusion
29:32
and LGBTQ nonsense and that's just what's constantly being thrust upon our children.
29:37
Even in, you know, you get it when you watch Sesame Street, you get it when you watch Disney
29:41
channel as a parent, I feel like I'm constantly going to have to run interference so that
29:45
I can give my son a sexual, biblical ethic so that I can give him an ethic as to what
29:50
it means to be male and female, those types of things.
29:53
So is that also a motivation to write a book like this?
29:56
Because to be honest, I know of like three books that are kind of in this vein that are
30:00
appropriate and affirming for young boys to be masculine.
30:04
Yeah, I think so.
30:06
Growing up, my dad took me hunting and fishing and I learned so much from him about being
30:11
a man through those activities and I noticed that there weren't a lot of books out there
30:16
for father specifically to read to their sons and, you know, how the story kind of came
30:21
about one day was I picked Harry up and I gave him a big bear hug and I rubbed my cheek
30:26
against his and he pushed me away and he said, "Dad, your face is all pokey and rough."
30:31
And I said, "Yeah, those were my ferocious facial follicles."
30:34
In that moment, this story was kind of boring.
30:37
So the next day I went to the coffee shop where I do a lot of writing for my screenplays
30:41
and I sat down and I was actually going to start working on a screenplay and the book
30:46
just kind of poured out of me.
30:48
I just felt like it was kind of giving to me like a gift.
30:51
I'm like, "All right."
30:52
And so I wrote it and I sent it to my good friend Troy Duhan.
30:55
Troy is the executive producer behind the God's Not Dead series.
30:59
And I said, "Hey man, take a look at this."
31:01
And he read it and he's like, "Herald, man, this is a gift.
31:07
There is such a gender identity crisis right now going on in our country.
31:12
And I think that this book is something that's special and it highlights that and I think
31:16
it's something we need to get out there as an option for families."
31:20
And so Troy got behind the book in a big way and that's how Phil Robertson came on board.
31:26
I've worked with the Duck Dynasty family on both God's Not Dead 1 and 2, Willie and Corey
31:30
on 1 and Sadie on 2 and Phil loved the book and said, "Yeah, I'd love to do it."
31:39
So.
31:40
Imagine that.
31:41
Phil liked a book about Beards.
31:42
That's a shocking revelation.
31:43
But you brought something up there about, and again, I talked about it a little bit as well,
31:48
the transgenderism with kids and the gender confusion and young people.
31:52
Now, I know a lot of my friends, they have taken their kids out of the public school.
31:56
So they're either homeschooling or they're doing Christian private school and things like
32:00
that.
32:01
And they've worked with the administration to say, "Hey, if a little boy, six-year-old
32:04
walks up to you and says, "I think I'm a girl, how does the administration handle that?"
32:07
And their answer was pleasing enough to them to where they felt okay with enrolling their
32:12
kid in that school.
32:13
But for the parents out there, for the dads that maybe they don't have the option to
32:17
take their kid to private school, maybe it's not really going to work out for them to do
32:20
homeschooling because of their work-life balance or who knows what.
32:25
What should we do?
32:26
Because I've talked about a lot on the show.
32:27
I've given my own ideas about it.
32:29
But what should we do to help inform and/or, I guess, protect our young children from this
32:34
creeping, satanic ideas about transgenderism and overall just gender confusion?
32:40
Well, that's a good question.
32:42
It's probably a question that's way above my pay grade because I'm just a filmmaker
32:48
and an artist, but what I know for me personally is that I'm going to invest in my son.
32:56
I'm going to share my experiences with my son.
32:59
I'm going to give him as much as I can.
33:01
I'm going to pour into him what my beliefs are.
33:05
And I think that's all we can do, really, because at the end of the day, we can fight
33:10
a fight against that stuff, but really what it is is it's about love and a connection
33:15
with your son and/or daughter and making sure that they know where your hope comes from
33:20
and where your love comes from for them.
33:25
I think it's about equipping them.
33:26
I mean, here at Undaunted Life, we'd say all the time, it's about equipping men to be
33:29
able to push back darkness, because that's the thing is like, my podcast isn't always
33:33
going to be here.
33:34
I'm not always going to be here, right?
33:36
My website could go away and everything I've ever produced could go away with it, right?
33:40
So you have to be equipped on your own to be able to push back darkness.
33:43
You can't just depend on your pastor.
33:45
You can't depend on your favorite Christian filmmaker.
33:47
You can't depend on your favorite Christian podcast or any of those things.
33:49
You have to be able to push back darkness.
33:51
And I guess in that vein, how are we to push back against the darkness that pervades the
33:55
culture when it comes to the claims of toxic masculinity?
33:59
And I'm not going to let you get away with it above your pay grade because you're right
34:01
in line with this, because I know that you've, I mean, you have a son, I believe you, is
34:06
it one son or do you have multiple sons?
34:08
One son.
34:09
Okay.
34:10
So you're one son and I currently have one son that is here on this, you know, planet
34:13
outside the womb.
34:14
And I'm very, very focused on making sure that he never looks at himself as toxically masculine,
34:19
simply because he has XY chromosomes.
34:21
But from your perspective, how should we push back against the darkness of people that are
34:25
basically saying masculinity is in and of itself toxic?
34:28
Well, I just think it's a, it's a conversation.
34:31
I mean, I, I know so many good men in this world, they're, they're hardworking guys.
34:37
And, um, me and a bunch of my, I mean, we call ourselves trucker mouth Christians, you
34:43
know, we're, we're, we're, we're men.
34:45
We make mistakes all the time.
34:47
We're broken.
34:48
We're flawed.
34:49
But you know what, the, the idea of a future without men who are doing wonderful things
34:55
to provide for their families and provide for our society, our futures way more bleak
35:00
without that presence, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to provide for my family.
35:05
I'm going to defend my family.
35:06
I'm going to be there for them.
35:08
I'm going to do the best I can to, to, to walk the walk of a Christian man.
35:14
And I just, I can't, I can't imagine what a world would be without that sort of strength
35:19
and, and commitment to, to families and communities.
35:24
So I, I just, a world without that doesn't make sense to me.
35:29
Absolutely.
35:30
It doesn't make sense because we were designed to do the things that culture is telling
35:34
us we're not allowed to do now.
35:35
And so we're working against our designer, we're working against God.
35:38
But there's part of this as well that, you know, a lot of men, either they're, they're
35:42
not aware of it.
35:43
They don't really focus on it.
35:44
But part of the problem is as the West, the capital W West, our culture does not focus
35:49
on rights of passage for our young men.
35:51
We don't focus on ushering our young men in the manhood.
35:54
They basically, you know, self actualize.
35:56
They decide when they become a man.
35:58
Maybe it's the first time they have sex, first time they get a job when they move away from
36:01
home, you know, something like that.
36:03
But we're not helping them.
36:04
I mean, there are like small sex of certain Christian, or certain religions, I guess that
36:09
do a decent job of kind of doing that.
36:12
But modern Christian them, we don't do that.
36:14
We don't really do that in our church.
36:15
And I feel like it's doing a major disservice to our young men.
36:18
And that's something that I'm working really, really hard on behind the scenes.
36:21
And hopefully we can announce some stuff soon that will help, help parents and help dads
36:25
with that.
36:26
But why do you feel like our culture doesn't feel like they need to focus on rights of
36:30
passage for young men?
36:32
That's a great question.
36:34
And I know, look, I know where I'm from in Northern Michigan.
36:39
A lot of dads would say that we do have this rite of passage.
36:42
It's fishing and hunting season and it's passing down our beliefs and our values to our sons
36:48
in those moments, because it's right about that age when you can start bow hunting and
36:52
rifle hunting.
36:53
And you know, my dad, I went on a fishing trip with him to the Upper Peninsula.
37:00
And on that trip is where he shared with me the birds and the bees.
37:03
And it's a time I'll never forget.
37:06
It was my dad created a core memory for me by taking me and putting me in this wonderful
37:11
situation outdoors in nature where we're experiencing the bounty of our Lord.
37:18
And then he shared this really important message with me, right?
37:22
And so I think that's something that we can do as dads, is if we find a way to make sure
37:29
that our sons know that they're transitioning into manhood and use some sort of event, whether
37:36
it's volunteering at some sort of local community shelter or something to show young men that
37:44
we have to help take care of our culture and our society.
37:48
And that's and provide for our families.
37:51
And that's a way of making that transition into manhood.
37:54
When I think one thing as well, because that's a great story that you have and a great memory
37:57
that you have with your dad.
37:58
I have some similar memories, not around hunting, but similar memories that are kind of in that
38:01
vein.
38:02
For a lot of guys, it's haphazard, it's random, you know, it's completely random.
38:07
It's not something that is, there's no structure to it.
38:11
And I know you can have too much rigidity and things and it kind of takes the excitement
38:16
out of it for, you know, dad and the kid.
38:18
But I think the more structure we can have around these things, because it's like, there's
38:21
a lot of structure when you go through and have your bar mitzvah, right?
38:25
There's a lot of structure there.
38:26
There's a lot of things that you know about.
38:28
And so for a lot of dads, as opposed to kind of the random, hey, I woke up my kid so he
38:32
could watch the end of game seven of the world series or something like that.
38:35
Hey, I think for a lot of dads, it really, really helps if they can do things a little
38:38
bit more specific than that.
38:40
But Harold, we've talked about a lot of things in this interview, but I do have one more
38:43
segment I want to get to.
38:45
So at the end of my interviews, a lot of the interviews I do, I do a segment called what
38:48
would you say to someone that said?
38:50
And so I will say that.
38:51
What would you say to someone that said, and then I will fill in the blank and it's
38:55
going to be a random thing that I fill in the blank with, but this is lightning round.
38:58
You have 30 seconds maximum to give me your answer and you're, you're, you're a pretty
39:02
direct guy.
39:03
So I kind of like it, but we're going to see how much trouble we can get in here at the
39:06
end of the podcast.
39:07
Are you open for it?
39:08
I, I'm ready to go.
39:10
I'm terrified.
39:11
Let's do it.
39:13
It's not going to be too bad.
39:14
It'll be like ripping off duct tape off your skin.
39:15
It's okay.
39:16
Here's the first one.
39:17
What would you say to someone that said Christian movies are corny?
39:22
I would say you're right and we're trying to fix that.
39:26
Okay.
39:27
See, you're doing just fine.
39:28
You nailed the first one.
39:29
Let's see if we can go two for two.
39:31
What would you say to someone that said, beards are gross.
39:36
I would say at times you're right because I found a lot of food in this after a big meal,
39:41
but they're also beautiful.
39:43
They certainly are, which leads me to the next one.
39:45
What would you say to someone that said, beards are awesome.
39:48
Say, you're absolutely right.
39:50
1000%.
39:51
Yeah.
39:52
It's the only correct answer.
39:53
Like any other answer would not be appropriate.
39:55
All right.
39:56
Let's keep it going.
39:57
What would you say to someone that said, I'm scared to show a Christian movie to my friends?
40:02
I would say, let's talk about a couple of movies that that would be worth, uh, we worth
40:08
the effort.
40:09
Perhaps unbroken path to redemption or does not dead or something like that.
40:12
Yeah.
40:13
It's okay to be self-serving.
40:14
That's all right.
40:15
All right.
40:16
Let's keep it going.
40:17
What would you say to someone that said, there's too much focus on fathers and sons and
40:20
not on fathers and daughters?
40:23
I would say you can't compare the two that way.
40:25
There needs to be focus on both.
40:27
And I think that, uh, that right now investing in our sons is just as important as investing
40:33
in our daughters.
40:34
So I feel like, um, to put one above the others mistake.
40:38
All right.
40:39
Just a few more left.
40:40
What would you say to someone that said, gender is a spectrum?
40:43
Wow, um, I don't know.
40:49
I honestly don't know.
40:50
I can't answer that question.
40:52
I've, I've never had that issue.
40:54
Um, I would say to, to pray about it.
40:58
That's the best thing I can do because, um, I can't imagine what it's like to be someone
41:02
who's struggling with that sort of issue in their lives.
41:06
Um, so prayer for me is the, is the, is the where I go when I can't find the answers.
41:11
Well, just to be clear on this, I'm assuming you do believe that there are only male and
41:16
female.
41:17
I'm going to be honest with you.
41:21
I don't know.
41:22
I'm not a medical doctor.
41:24
I don't know if they're, um, I mean, very specifically, uh, physical traits of different
41:31
organs.
41:32
Um, I know that there's some time can be some issues there.
41:35
So I don't know the answer to that question and that's the honest, the goodness truth.
41:38
Okay.
41:39
We'll keep going, but you don't have to be a medical doctor to realize that there are
41:43
only two options, there's x, x and x, y chromosomes, there are either males or females, God and,
41:48
you know, man and woman, he created them, that type of a thing, but we'll kind of get
41:51
out of there.
41:52
I haven't done enough research on that front to actually give you an answer.
41:57
And that's my, that's the truth.
41:59
Okay.
42:00
I'm not avoiding the question.
42:02
I just don't have, I haven't educated myself enough to actually tell you what I believe
42:06
is true.
42:07
Stop avoiding my questions.
42:08
I'm not avoiding the question.
42:09
Answer it.
42:10
I'm not actually angry.
42:11
Come on guys.
42:12
All right.
42:13
A couple more left.
42:14
Would you say to someone that said, I fear that my son will inherit my worst qualities.
42:20
I would say that's probably true, but it's your job as a father to help educate him out
42:26
of those.
42:27
Let him, let him learn from your mistakes.
42:30
As we have all made terrible mistakes as dads, give yourself a break.
42:35
We all mess up.
42:36
We all screw up, we ask for forgiveness and move forward and do everything you can to
42:42
help him avoid the traps that you fell into.
42:44
I love it.
42:45
That's a great answer.
42:46
All right.
42:47
Last question of the day.
42:48
What would you say to someone that said masculinity is inherently toxic?
42:52
I would say I vehemently disagree with that.
42:56
Okay.
42:57
I vehemently disagree as well.
42:59
That is why I'm here.
43:00
But man, we've gone everywhere in this conversation.
43:02
We've covered a lot of ground in a short period of time, but that is all for me.
43:05
Is there anything else you want to get off your chest?
43:07
You know what?
43:08
I would just want to say thank you to your listeners because I know a lot of them have
43:10
been supporters of Christian films, of my films.
43:15
I just want to say this.
43:17
We're in a period right now where it's incredibly difficult for filmmakers who are Christians
43:24
to get their work out there.
43:27
When they do bring a film like American underdog that just came out, when we do get films like
43:35
that into the theater, it's so important that your audience, our audience, go and support
43:42
these types of films because the one thing that the studios will see is when those films
43:50
make money, they will finance more of those movies.
43:54
So if you want to see content like God's not dead, like unbroken path redemption, like
43:58
American underdog, if you want to see those films continue to arrive in your local theater,
44:04
when they do, you have to get off the couch and you have to go to the theater to go see
44:08
them.
44:09
And if you can't do that, at least rent them at home.
44:12
Because if you stop going to see those movies, the studios will stop hiring us to make them
44:16
and then we're done.
44:18
Guys, you have to follow the money.
44:20
Everyone has a money bin, especially for a corporation.
44:22
Why do you think a lot of these corporations are signaling this woke virtue stuff?
44:26
It's because they think they can turn it into dollars.
44:28
That's the only reason that they're doing it.
44:30
But before I get off on another tangi, I just want to thank you Harold Crunk for coming
44:33
on on Daunton life of man's podcast.
44:35
Thank you for having me and I appreciate your authenticity man.
44:39
There you go guys.
44:40
I hope you enjoyed the interview with Harold Crunk, but before we let you go, we are going
44:43
to do a quick resilience boost at a Daunton life or mission is equipping him into pushback
44:46
darkness with content that for just spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
44:50
So I've only got one link for you today and it is linked to where you can go buy your
44:52
own copy of the beard ballad, but also guys, any of his movies.
44:56
Okay.
44:57
So I didn't want to put a thousand different links in here because I know you guys get
45:00
all your entertainment in different places and different streaming platforms and whatever,
45:03
but make sure you go and support his films, go and support Christian filmmaking.
45:06
All right, guys.
45:07
Thanks so much for listening to the show.
45:08
We do appreciate it.
45:09
Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five
45:12
star review.
45:13
And if you want to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, you shoot me an
45:15
email to info at undonton.light.
45:18
That's INFO at undonton.life.
45:20
You can follow us on Instagram and tick tock and like us on Facebook and you can check out
45:23
our website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this
45:26
coming your way.
45:27
Just go to www.undonton.life and we want to also thank the band August Burns Red for allowing
45:31
us to use our music for our content.
45:33
The music on this podcast is our song, cutting the ties, which is off their 10th anniversary
45:36
re-recording of their album leveler.
45:39
The links are in the description.
45:40
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
45:43
Remember keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
45:50
Keep seeking the Lion of Judah.
46:20
[music]