DREW PARKER | Beyond Country Music Theology (Ep. 827)

0:00 (upbeat music)

0:01 LinkedIn is great at connecting you

0:03 with the world's largest professional network,

0:06 but it can't connect you with motivation

0:08 on a Monday morning.

0:09 LinkedIn can help you get insights

0:10 from your professional community,

0:12 but it can't give you any insight

0:14 into why Dave's is still talking on mute.

0:16 And while it can't stop your boss

0:17 from bringing tuna for lunch,

0:19 LinkedIn can help bring your career to the next level.

0:22 LinkedIn is the network that works for you.

0:25 Visit LinkedIn.com to learn more.

0:30 (dramatic music)

0:33 - This is Undaunted Life a Man's Podcast.

0:54 I'm your host Kyle Thompson.

0:55 Let's get into it.

0:57 Drew, welcome to my house.

0:59 - Dude, thanks for having me.

1:00 - Okay, I always like never know how to like start

1:01 these things when people are in the studio now

1:03 'cause we're starting to do a bunch of like in-studio stuff,

1:05 but it's like, well, going to my house feels good.

1:06 - I know, it is.

1:07 It's awesome.

1:08 - You know, the first person I think

1:09 to sit there to do an in-person interview

1:10 was that dad gum, Joby Martin.

1:13 That dude just--

1:13 - Sorry Joker.

1:14 - He won't leave us alone.

1:16 Like he won't stop talking to us.

1:17 He's always trying to give us wisdom

1:19 and make us change how we do our own lives.

1:21 What's wrong with that guy?

1:22 - I don't know.

1:23 I love him though.

1:24 - But he's okay.

1:25 So like we were trying to think,

1:26 so peak behind the curtain, all that, you didn't just show up

1:29 like an hour ago.

1:30 We've been hanging out since yesterday.

1:31 We spent a lot of time, broke a lot of bread,

1:33 had some cigars and some good whiskey.

1:35 I introduced you to the world of Scotch a little bit.

1:37 - You did.

1:38 - Last night, I taught you like the Scotch tasting mechanism

1:40 or whatever, but like--

1:41 - You did.

1:42 - Every time I tried, like my wife was like,

1:43 how did y'all meet?

1:45 I keep forgetting.

1:46 Like how you and I like became aware of one another.

1:48 Was it Joby that introduced us initially?

1:50 Or like, how did we--

1:51 - Yeah, I mean--

1:52 - 'Cause I can't remember.

1:53 - Well, I discovered like Joby, I guess,

1:55 I don't know, two years ago, I was given his book,

1:59 like if the tomb is empty or--

2:01 - If the tomb is empty book.

2:02 - I was given that, I was given that probably three

2:05 or four years ago, and it took me a year and a half

2:08 before I opened it up, I was like, I'm gonna read this.

2:10 So I read it, I was like, this dude is awesome.

2:13 And started consuming every piece of content

2:17 that he had readily available, 'cause I just,

2:20 I thought he was awesome.

2:21 He, you know, delivered the gospel in a way

2:23 that I had never heard in my life,

2:25 and he made very deep things make sense to me,

2:30 'cause we're both rednecks, and he just explains it

2:32 in redneck language.

2:34 And so anyway, I then discovered you from Ask a Pastor,

2:38 'cause you would have him on.

2:40 - Yeah, it's so funny because there are a lot of people,

2:45 so his staff has told me before they're like,

2:48 'cause he has like 47 different assistants.

2:50 I can't remember that last count on me, assistants he has,

2:52 but he doesn't actually read any of his emails, right?

2:55 And so his assistants would tell me, they're like,

2:58 Kyle, do you understand how many emails we get

3:00 that are, hey, I found you via Andon Life Man's podcast,

3:04 hey, I found you because of Ask a Pastor, hey,

3:06 and now it's, hey, I found you because of Daily Blade

3:08 or whatever, and it's people that are just so thankful,

3:11 because, so Joby said it, and it's perfect,

3:14 and it's kinda helped me in terms of how I approach ministry.

3:17 He's like, Kyle, I'm a shepherd, you're a prophet.

3:19 - Yep, I've heard you say that.

3:20 - And not like, hey, you know, you get to tell the future

3:22 and all that, like not that level of profit,

3:23 but he's like, I have been called to a particular flock, okay?

3:28 So I am shepherding and discipling Church of 1122ers, right?

3:33 You're the prophet, you get to pull the pens on the grenades

3:36 and chuck 'em into culture, and you get to talk about

3:39 the things that aren't always gonna be appropriate

3:41 for me to talk about on Sunday morning or whatever.

3:44 And so it's helped me to know, 'cause before he said that,

3:48 it didn't really solidify in my brain like, okay, shoot,

3:50 am I a shepherd, but it's like, you know,

3:52 according to scripture, I'm not a shepherd,

3:53 I'm not a pastor, I'm not gonna have to give.

3:55 Like Hebrews says, I'm not gonna have to give an account

3:57 for how I've shepherded a flock,

3:58 but I do have to give an account for the words

4:01 that I've expressed, for the advice that I've given,

4:03 for the direction that I've given to people,

4:04 but it's like, wait a minute,

4:05 like I don't need to feel the pressure of leading a flock,

4:08 but there is pressure on speaking like literal truth to power,

4:13 like the crap and craziness that's happening in culture.

4:15 So it's kinda helped me kinda figure out how to approach all this.

4:19 - Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, there's,

4:20 'cause I think you understand there are guys

4:23 who are searching for stuff like myself was.

4:26 I mean, you know, I've been a believer, you know,

4:31 since I was a young kid, but like,

4:33 I have grown into this thing where I'm like, okay, Lord,

4:35 I want everything that you could possibly get to me

4:38 that you think that I would love.

4:40 And so I think you understand that you do have an audience

4:42 who are younger guys, who are searching for things.

4:46 And you don't, you know, I think you probably feel

4:48 a little pressured to not say things

4:50 that would lead them the wrong way.

4:52 And I don't think you would ever do that, right?

4:53 But like, there is some sort of flock mentality in that

4:57 because you do have listeners, right?

4:59 - Well, people are like, people love to be a part of a tribe

5:01 or whatever, and there are people that are like,

5:03 look, I'm an undaunted lifer.

5:04 - Right.

5:05 - And so I'll get messages from guys that are teenagers

5:07 and I'll get messages from dudes that are in their 60s

5:09 and everything in between.

5:11 As you were saying that, I remember there was a guy

5:14 that was in his 70s or 80s.

5:19 And I got that, I'll never forget this email.

5:22 But he sent me this long email.

5:24 He's like, hey, I'm a veteran, I'm a tough guy,

5:26 I'm blah, blah, blah.

5:28 And then I forget which episode he had listened to

5:30 or whatever, but it was something that we had done

5:31 and undaunted life.

5:33 And he goes, for my entire life, I thought I could be

5:37 a Christian or I could be tough.

5:40 So I just chose to be tough.

5:42 And he's like, it wasn't until listening to your show

5:45 when I realized this entire time I could have been both.

5:48 - Yeah.

5:49 - And so as opposed to lamenting the last 60 years

5:52 of wasted time, I'm just gonna get after it being tough

5:55 and being a Christian.

5:56 And I'm just like, you know, 'cause like that's a dude

5:59 that's in the sage stage of his life that could easily

6:01 just be like, oh man, I've wasted all this time

6:03 and just kind of like pack it in.

6:04 But he's like, when that's not like me pat myself

6:06 on the back, that's like, okay, I was gonna say this stuff

6:09 anyway.

6:09 And how many stories are there of guys like that

6:12 that you just, you don't know, like you don't know

6:13 that guys are just like, oh, I'm just gonna change.

6:15 I've changed my life 'cause I made a decision

6:18 to like change things.

6:19 And you know, maybe it was my podcast that sparked it.

6:22 Maybe it was one of Joby sermons, maybe it was a song

6:24 that somebody, you know, that they listened to.

6:26 But then they're just like, no, I can point to this time

6:28 and be like, this is when I decided that's it.

6:29 I'm changing.

6:30 - Yeah, for sure.

6:31 And I think, you know, a lot of that has happened

6:35 in my life, you know, recently where I have understood

6:39 things the wrong way.

6:40 Like from a really, honestly a legalistic standpoint, you know?

6:45 Like, and we've talked about this,

6:48 but your country music theology, I mean, that was me.

6:51 So like, just not understanding truly the full scale

6:55 of what grace is.

6:57 And like, you know, it's, and two, you said

7:01 like the way things are said, but there's a,

7:06 for some reason, think about this, but Joby said one time

7:09 he's talking about Jesus getting angry.

7:13 He's like, it's okay to get angry about things in the world.

7:16 - Yeah.

7:16 - Like, and I think I sense that from you,

7:19 like when I listen to you, like the things that like

7:22 get you angsty and, but they are things

7:26 that are for righteousness, right?

7:28 Like Jesus walked in the temple and turned the tables over.

7:31 It's okay to get angry about things that aren't right.

7:34 And I think that is so encouraging to dudes like myself.

7:38 'Cause I mean, I think for a long time,

7:40 you kind of feel like, well, is it okay to be like

7:43 as angry as I am about this?

7:44 'Cause I'm angry.

7:45 - One there, 'cause so some people will take Jesus

7:48 turning over the temple, turning over and redriving

7:50 the people of the temple, which happened multiple times

7:52 early in his ministry and late in his ministry.

7:54 So he, we know that he's done it at least twice.

7:57 They take that as license to be aggro about everything.

7:59 - Yeah, dude.

8:00 - And I mentioned a guy to you last night

8:01 that I won't mention on air, but like, there are people

8:03 and kind of the conservative Christian space

8:05 that everything is outrage.

8:06 - Yeah. - Everything is level 10.

8:08 And it's like, look, when you're outraged

8:10 about everything. - For sure.

8:11 - Okay, you're outraged about this bill

8:14 that passed the State House in Wisconsin,

8:16 and you're outraged about 70 Christians

8:17 being beheaded in Congo.

8:19 It's the same sound coming out of your face.

8:21 - Yeah, it's very cry wolf-ish.

8:23 'Cause I'm like, well, what do you actually care about?

8:25 - Yeah, it's like your calibration knob is broken.

8:27 - For sure.

8:27 - And the thing is, is your heart breaks

8:28 for whatever your heart breaks for.

8:30 - For sure.

8:30 - Okay, so, you know, you could be a fervent Christian

8:33 and study and theologically adept and all that,

8:34 but there's gonna be a story that affects you

8:36 more deeply than a story over here, right?

8:38 And, you know, I've got a lot of positions

8:40 that, you know, people are not huge fans of, like,

8:42 but it's, these are my convictions

8:45 that I say into the microphone.

8:46 So you may not like how I approach, you know,

8:48 how I talk about Andy Stanley,

8:49 or how I talk about the abortion debate,

8:51 or immigration, or pit bulls, or whatever the thing is,

8:54 or IVF, any of the stuff that I've said

8:55 that have like kind of really got people's hackles up,

8:57 but I'm like, I'm not just saying things.

9:01 I am saying things after I have considered them

9:04 for a long period of time, I've considered the ramifications

9:08 of what I'm suggesting should happen,

9:10 because there are people, someone pointed this out

9:12 the other day, I'm like, actually, they're right.

9:14 Oh, it was the podcast you sent me,

9:16 where Josh Howerton and Frank Turk did an amazing conversation.

9:19 So guys, this is coming out a few months

9:20 after we are recording it, but Josh Howerton, on his show,

9:24 he had Frank Turk on, and they were talking,

9:26 and they both love Al Moller, which I love Al Moller too.

9:29 I listen to the briefing every single morning,

9:31 but Al Moller is fairly long on description,

9:34 but fairly short on prescription.

9:36 And so it's like, dude, I'm with you,

9:37 these are all problems, now what do we do Al?

9:40 Right, now if you read Al Moller's books,

9:42 like the oncoming storm, I think it's one of them,

9:44 like that's one where it was like, okay,

9:45 so we got long on description and prescription,

9:47 but for me, if I'm gonna prescribe

9:50 a different way of operating, or prescribe a way

9:52 to think about a cultural topic, or news topic,

9:54 or political topic, or whatever,

9:57 I don't just do that flippantly, right?

9:59 I have a moral foundation and a philosophical foundation

10:03 in a lot of different areas,

10:05 so that whenever I give my opinion, it's not just,

10:07 well, I got mad, and I just immediately went to Twitter

10:09 and just started like, ah, right,

10:11 like I try to make sure it's undergirded by something.

10:13 - For sure, and I think you're really good at that,

10:15 and yeah, this is coming out gonna come out

10:18 a little while after things we've talked about currently,

10:21 but like, what you gave last night, the story you told me,

10:26 the throwin' the kids in the river thing, like that,

10:30 I mean, let me actually say that for people that,

10:33 'cause so I said it on an episode,

10:35 I did an episode about the sex-dortion epidemic

10:38 happening with young kids, so essentially,

10:40 the FBI puts out a PSA about these kids that are online,

10:44 playing video games, whatever, they get a DM

10:45 from someone that looks like a young, hot girl.

10:48 They, you know, get switched over to Snapchat or Instagram,

10:51 whatever, they start sendin' back, you know,

10:53 nude photos or, you know,

10:54 sexually explicit photos, then the veil's taken off,

10:57 it's some random dude in Nigeria,

10:59 and then they say, hey, we're gonna post all these

11:01 on Facebook and tag your whole family and friends

11:03 if you don't give us $1,000 or however much money

11:06 some of these kids don't know what to do,

11:07 they freak out and they kill themselves, right?

11:09 Just an absolutely horrific circumstances.

11:11 But what I was talkin' about in that episode,

11:13 Drew is like, and you were just listenin' to it

11:16 this morning 'cause it just came out.

11:18 We're not describing the problem effectively,

11:21 so people are like, hey, we need to be talkin'

11:23 to our sons and let them know they can always come to us.

11:25 Yes, fact check true, love it.

11:26 We need to be informing our sons about different scams

11:28 that may come online so they aren't susceptible.

11:31 Yep, I'm for all those different things.

11:33 But the river example I gave is like, okay,

11:35 you've got three hikers that are takin' a break

11:36 and they're eatin' lunch by the river.

11:38 And then all of a sudden they hear a kid

11:40 who's in the river comin' down the river,

11:41 oh, help, help, I'm drowning, I'm drowning, I'm drowning.

11:43 Oh, shoot, so they all three jump in,

11:45 they grab this kid, they pull him ashore,

11:46 dry him off, oh my gosh, that's crazy,

11:47 I'm so glad we were here.

11:49 Five minutes later, another kid, oh, help, help,

11:50 I'm drowning, I'm drowning, oh no.

11:52 So they jump back in, they grab this second kid,

11:54 they're like, what's goin' on, this is crazy.

11:56 Five minutes later, a third kid comes down the river.

11:59 One of the hikers takes off runnin'.

12:02 And they're like, where's he goin'?

12:03 So the two guys left, they jump in,

12:05 they grab this third kid, they bring him out,

12:07 they got three kids and almost drowned,

12:08 but they saved all three of 'em.

12:10 30 minutes goes by, everything's quiet,

12:11 nothing's goin' on.

12:12 And the third hiker, their buddy,

12:14 starts walkin' back to camp.

12:16 And he comes back up and his two buddies are like,

12:18 hey man, where'd you go?

12:19 He's like, I went up river and stopped the guy

12:21 from throwin' kids in.

12:23 It's like, we'll look at the end of the situation.

12:26 - So good.

12:27 - And I think the example I use,

12:28 it's like giving band-aids to a cancer patient.

12:30 It's like, yeah, they may have sores

12:31 that are caused by some of the treatments

12:33 or whatever that is befallin' them,

12:36 but we're not treating the source of the issue

12:37 in that particular sex-torsion thing.

12:39 The source is that these kids have access,

12:41 unfettered access to the internet,

12:42 where these, it's not just what you're giving kids access to,

12:45 it's who you're giving access to them.

12:47 So these predators, these scammers,

12:48 you're giving access to them,

12:50 so I don't wanna get too far off on that diatribe,

12:51 but I feel like, Drew, we get to this point.

12:54 We talked about a lot of subjects last night at dinner,

12:56 and afterwards, shout out Stag Lounge in Oakland City,

12:59 the best cigar bar in town.

13:00 But there's so many people that they wanna solve the issue,

13:06 but they're solving the wrong part of it, right?

13:08 It's just like, we're not going to the heart of the issue

13:11 for all of these people.

13:13 - Yeah, and a lot of it is probably uneducated a little bit,

13:19 I guess, which is why, thank God for folks like you,

13:23 who have shows like this,

13:24 who enlighten dumb idiots like myself

13:27 of even the things that are going on,

13:29 and give your viewpoint to go,

13:31 well, I've never even thought of it that way, you know?

13:34 And so I think, to go back to our original point,

13:37 like where you said, yes, you are somewhat a prophet,

13:42 but you do have, not a flock that you are shepherding,

13:46 but you have guys that you're helping along the way,

13:48 like, hey, these are things that exist,

13:51 and hey, if you have the ability to help in this situation,

13:54 let's help, you know what I mean?

13:57 And so that's what I've taken away from kind of what you do.

14:01 - I do feel a pressure and I feel the gravitas of,

14:06 'cause sometimes like, I'll get introduced to a guy like you,

14:10 and we'll get in your career and all that here in a second,

14:12 and all that, but sometimes I'll get random DMs

14:15 or random stuff from people, and I'm like,

14:17 and these people are like, man, I've been listening to you

14:18 for a while, I'm like, oh, okay, and again,

14:23 I don't get real starstruck and all that,

14:24 but sometimes I'm like, wait a minute,

14:25 you're like a serious dude in whatever category

14:28 you're serious in, and it's like,

14:30 and I'm almost just curious, like,

14:31 what value do you find in what I'm saying?

14:34 But the typical refrain from a lot of guys is,

14:37 I've had these thoughts for so long,

14:41 and I thought I was the one that was crazy.

14:43 - Yeah.

14:44 - And then I hear you give an opinion

14:45 that I've never been able to give words to.

14:47 - 100%.

14:48 - And then I'm like, okay, not only am I not crazy,

14:50 apparently there are a lot of guys that feel this way,

14:52 and dude, that's how London Life started to where it's like,

14:55 I thought I was nuts thinking about men's ministry

14:57 the way that I did, 'cause most men's ministries

15:01 are just women's ministries that have been repackaged

15:03 for men, and I just didn't like that,

15:05 and I felt like dudes that were tatted up

15:07 and have cauliflower ears and rough dudes

15:10 that they just maybe miss out on Jesus,

15:11 'cause of all of his doughy, frumpy followers,

15:14 and I was like, no, I just want to do something

15:16 a little bit different.

15:17 But then when you constantly have guys say,

15:19 I never knew, Christian, we were talking about

15:21 contemporary worship music a lot last night,

15:23 and I did an entire episode on my problems

15:25 with contemporary Christian music,

15:27 and why most guys don't like it,

15:28 and some of the issues with the lyrics,

15:30 being like homoerotic in nature,

15:31 and different things like that.

15:33 And you had guys that were like, dude, my entire life,

15:37 I have felt uncomfortable during worship,

15:39 and I have been serving the Lord,

15:40 and I have been going to Him in prayer and all that,

15:43 but then I've been told, if I don't raise my hands

15:45 during worship, during the song that I don't like,

15:48 that somehow something's broken in me,

15:49 and that I'm not, maybe not even saved,

15:51 which is what someone told me one time,

15:52 a worship leader told me, dude, I don't think you're saved,

15:54 'cause I don't like Bethel music or whatever.

15:58 But it's just like, I'm not giving guys license

16:01 to act like a jerk, I'm giving guys license

16:03 to be like, it's okay to be tough,

16:05 it's okay to not check your balls at the door

16:07 of your church before you walk in.

16:09 - I've heard this analogy,

16:10 and I may have heard this on your show,

16:12 I don't know, so I'm still in this from somebody.

16:14 - Probably me.

16:15 - Yeah, go for it.

16:16 - So, if you walked into your house, right,

16:21 and your wife had on a nice shirt,

16:25 you're like, oh wow, you look beautiful in that shirt.

16:27 - This is a JOBism, yeah, go for it, yeah, it's great.

16:29 - Well, you look beautiful in that shirt,

16:31 and then if I walk in my house

16:32 and my wife has on my shirt,

16:34 I'm like, wow, you look beautiful in my shirt.

16:36 - That's right.

16:37 - But if you come in my house

16:40 and I'm wearing my wife's shirt,

16:42 you're gonna give me very weird looks.

16:45 - Yeah, it doesn't work.

16:46 - But like, that's kind of where it's been

16:48 for men's ministry for so long.

16:49 Like, the men's ministry has been wearing

16:52 a woman's blouse for way too long.

16:54 - Well, so I get into a whole reason

16:58 as to why I think that is.

17:00 Like, how long ago did you start listening to the show?

17:03 - Maybe a year and a half ago.

17:04 - Okay, so if you go way back,

17:07 so episode four of the podcast is called

17:09 Pussies in the Puse, and I mean,

17:12 it's like that's a pretty early line in the sand.

17:15 And here's the thing about that episode.

17:16 I didn't want to call it that.

17:18 I literally text a few guys that are a bit more mature

17:20 than I am, not quite as aggro.

17:22 And I'm like, hey guys, you know,

17:24 I just started a podcast, right?

17:25 Yeah, man, great.

17:26 Good for you.

17:27 I'm thinking about calling this episode Pussies in the Puse.

17:31 And here's the content of the episode,

17:33 all that, and literally, all three of these people.

17:36 Like, I sent it specifically to these guys

17:38 'cause these guys do not care about offending me.

17:41 That's why I love them, right?

17:41 - Yeah, for sure.

17:43 - All three of them said, no, man, if it's,

17:46 call what it is, this is your dividing line.

17:48 This is, hey, if you can't be down with this,

17:50 don't pass go.

17:52 And the people, and I told you last night,

17:53 I've lost lots of money from speaking engagements

17:56 where I was booked, and then elders went

17:57 and just looked at the names of my, you know, podcast.

18:00 And they're like, we can't be down with that.

18:01 And I'm like, well, did you listen to the episode?

18:03 Well, no, it's like, okay, well,

18:04 you're part of the problem

18:05 that I'm describing in the episode.

18:07 But part of the thing is, is we've just been,

18:11 you go back to the Industrial Revolution,

18:13 where were all the virile testosterone filled men?

18:16 They were in a factory, or they were underground,

18:18 or they were working these 16, 18-hour shifts.

18:20 Hey, they weren't exhausted,

18:23 so they weren't really in the churches.

18:24 Then you get back to the World Wars,

18:26 you've got young men going and fighting and dying

18:29 in trench warfare somewhere, and some God forsaken

18:31 filled in Europe and all that.

18:32 And so the only men that were left in these towns

18:35 or villages or whatever were the elderly, the young,

18:38 the sickly, the weak.

18:40 And then you have these effeminate men

18:41 that are some, in a lot of cases, more so drawn

18:44 to the ministry, to the, to the, you know,

18:46 sit down and hold hands of the widow type thing,

18:48 which is all super, super valuable stuff.

18:50 Yeah, for sure.

18:51 But it does ping a little bit more with capital F feminine

18:54 than it does capital M masculine.

18:56 And then when you're looking out at your congregation

18:59 and its women and children and elderly,

19:01 your sermon content is gonna bend

19:03 a little bit more Lamb of God,

19:04 a little bit more grace, a little less line

19:06 in Judah, a little bit less truth.

19:08 The songs are gonna be a lot more emotive, right?

19:12 About, you know, you're singing about Jesus

19:13 like he's your boyfriend and you can just curl him up

19:15 and put him in your shirt pocket

19:16 and he's just so sweet and he's never gonna say anything

19:18 that's gonna make you angry.

19:20 Like, and then you just do that,

19:23 decade after decade after decade after decade.

19:25 And then you get to this point where you're a church

19:28 or you're a music minister and you're singing a song

19:30 and you don't even realize how it's pinging

19:33 in the ears of your men.

19:34 Again, another email I got one of the best emails

19:36 I've ever received after I did the episode

19:38 of contemporary worship music.

19:39 Like the same week I get an email from a guy

19:41 who is a worship leader at his church.

19:43 And he goes, thank you so much for doing this episode.

19:47 The episode's called like contemporary Christian music

19:50 is for women and effeminate men.

19:52 And I don't remember the number, but you can find it.

19:55 He goes, every single time I get the songs ready

19:59 to go for Sunday morning, I never have them in mind.

20:03 - Wow.

20:04 - Until this episode, because I mentioned things,

20:07 I'm like, you're singing songs that have homoerotic lyrics

20:10 to where if you took out the name Jesus

20:11 and inserted the name Drew, right?

20:13 It would be like you're singing to your boyfriend Drew,

20:15 right? That's not good.

20:17 The lyrical content is more lamb of God-y,

20:19 not God of the universe, you know, the war Psalms,

20:23 like it's devoid of all that, right?

20:26 It's in a key that most men can't hit, right?

20:30 And so the men sit there with a blank stare on their face,

20:33 maybe they're mumbling the words,

20:34 God of mercy, and they're just kind of whatever.

20:37 And they've got their hands in their pockets.

20:39 And I'm like, as a worship leader,

20:41 when you look out in the crowd

20:42 and the only people like really getting into it

20:44 are the women, that that's a signal.

20:47 - Yeah, it's because the man,

20:48 they literally cannot, they feel like they can't participate.

20:52 - Right, and they feel like if they do,

20:53 they're checking their man card.

20:55 And so like, yeah, so I just wanted to make people aware

20:57 and like this worship leader's like, from now on,

21:00 when I look at the lyrics, when I look at the song choice,

21:02 the key, the people I have on stage,

21:04 like again, I don't understand music,

21:06 but like the harmony parts,

21:07 like we're gonna make sure that we hear masculine voices.

21:10 And there's just not a whole lot of churches

21:11 that focus on that.

21:12 - Yeah, for sure.

21:13 I mean, yeah, and I think it's time

21:17 we put a set of balls on some of that stuff.

21:19 - Well, that's a dude, that's one of the main reasons

21:21 though I wanted to have you in studio.

21:23 And so when you and I got introduced

21:24 and we're talking and all that,

21:26 you've had a crazy career in music

21:30 and you've been in the music industry

21:31 and we'll start unpacking all that.

21:33 But like one of the first things,

21:36 I'm pretty sure it was you that messaged me.

21:37 I'd have to go back and look,

21:39 you're just like, I wanna make Christian music

21:42 that has balls.

21:43 And you know, obviously everyone knows I'm a huge metal head.

21:46 I'm a huge fan of Christian metal.

21:48 And like, so I love me some chain and chain,

21:50 but you know, that's not always what I need.

21:52 Sometimes I need some for today.

21:54 I need some holy name.

21:55 I need some convictions to where it's like,

21:57 that's where I'm like, that's where I'm like worshiping.

22:00 And so like, okay, so we'll get there.

22:02 We'll get to the balls on music.

22:03 But for you, you're a young guy,

22:06 but you've had a long career in country music.

22:09 And so like, let's go back to like early Drew.

22:12 So you're growing up like,

22:14 so when did you get like into music?

22:16 Like, you know, what kind of like,

22:18 'cause you're, you know, 33, right?

22:20 And so you would have been on the tail end

22:23 of kind of the nineties country thing and all that.

22:25 And so you kind of came of age during kind of like

22:27 the early 2000s country, which is not my favorite.

22:29 But it's just like, you know,

22:30 what kind of formulated your music for the nation?

22:33 - Yeah, grew up in middle Georgia.

22:35 And grew up going to church.

22:39 I mean, we were, you know, I was the,

22:41 the old joke, I was a drug baby, you know what I mean?

22:43 Like drug two church, drug front church, drug back to church.

22:46 - I was like, wait a minute.

22:47 Oh my God, what happened? - No, no, no.

22:49 And so that was where I was introduced to music,

22:52 was at church and we would have fifth Sunday night

22:55 gospel singings, you know, like every so often

22:58 there would be like a fifth Sunday of the month

23:00 and we would have a special group or whatever

23:02 would come to church with sing.

23:04 And I was like, this is awesome.

23:05 These people like, they travel around and sing.

23:07 What is that about?

23:08 And so here I am young kid, six years old.

23:11 I'm like, I want to do that.

23:12 Like, I want a sing.

23:13 And so I would start getting up and doing little

23:16 kid specials at church, right?

23:18 And so one thing led to another and

23:21 I just started, that was what I wanted to do.

23:24 I wanted to sing music.

23:26 And so there was a guy in my hometown who would do like

23:30 Friday night little gospel things in the Arby's parking lot

23:33 on a flatbed trailer and - Shout out to the happy

23:35 roast beef, let's go.

23:36 And so I would go there on Friday nights.

23:38 And again, a kid singing songs, you know.

23:41 And these were older than these gospel songs.

23:43 Yeah, this guy was in his, he was probably in his

23:47 40s at the time. - Okay, yeah.

23:48 - Yeah, yeah.

23:49 We would just go to kind of hear him

23:51 and then he would like bring me up to like do a special

23:54 or whatever.

23:54 And so I was exposed to like playing a show.

23:57 - Yeah.

23:58 - And so loved music, I started playing Southern gospel

24:03 when I was probably 10 or 11.

24:06 And when I say that, we would load my mom's

24:08 Ford Expedition up with some sound equipment.

24:10 My dad went and bought.

24:12 We'd travel all over the state of Georgia, Southeast.

24:14 And I would sing like solo by myself,

24:17 Southern gospel music at churches.

24:19 So I did that for quite a while.

24:21 2008 economy crashes, that kind of goes away.

24:26 So like, you know.

24:27 - 'Cause you would have been what,

24:28 in like middle school, high school?

24:29 - Yeah, middle school, high school.

24:30 I was like a sophomore in high school at this time.

24:33 Economy crashes and that kind of goes away.

24:38 The traveling, singing gospel music at churches

24:41 kind of goes away 'cause that was just no money.

24:43 And I wouldn't do it for money, but like, you know,

24:47 it just, they weren't even inviting people to come in

24:49 'cause they didn't, you know.

24:50 And so they needed the money to stay there kind of thing,

24:55 you know.

24:56 At least that's what I understood as a young kid

24:59 as a 17 year old.

25:00 And so to fill my habit, my passion of music,

25:05 I started doing, I'd do like open mics.

25:08 I did an open mic at a pizza joint in my hometown.

25:11 - And are you, are you playing like all covers

25:14 or songs or are you? - Covered country songs.

25:15 - Okay, you're not writing anything.

25:16 - No, not writing anything yet.

25:18 Covered, I'm covering country songs.

25:21 And the owners of this pizza joint come back and they're like,

25:23 "Hey, can you come back and do like three hours of this?"

25:27 And I'm like, "Yes, I can."

25:29 Knowing that I couldn't.

25:30 - Dude, three hours, that's like a crazy set.

25:32 - Yeah, I mean, a hundred percent.

25:34 And so I show up the first time I got this guy,

25:37 this kid that I grew up going to church with,

25:39 he knew how to play guitar.

25:41 I didn't really know how to play guitar yet.

25:43 So I got him to like learn, we learned like, I don't know,

25:47 15, 20 songs.

25:49 And the turnover was just weird, like, okay,

25:53 we can just like, like these and then we'll just,

25:55 we think the crowd has changed over,

25:56 we'll just do the same songs.

25:57 - So what were y'all singing, like who are y'all?

25:59 - Oh man, like Alan Jackson, like 90s country stuff.

26:02 - Okay, yeah. - You know?

26:03 Or like maybe whatever was popular at the time,

26:06 Jason Aldine, like just different things.

26:08 And so doing that and dude, we packed the place out.

26:13 I mean, we, the place is slammed.

26:16 And so the people are like, can you come back like,

26:19 twice a month and do this please?

26:21 'Cause I mean, we're bringing in tons of business.

26:24 And so I'm like, yeah.

26:26 And one thing led to another, I started doing that

26:31 all over my hometown and then expanded like

26:34 into other towns.

26:36 And so I started like playing legit shows.

26:41 And I'm still not writing songs.

26:44 This is like cover songs.

26:46 I'm gonna do a full band show at this place in Atlanta

26:49 called Wild Bills.

26:50 It's like, back then it was the like the place club

26:54 you went to see a country show.

26:56 And I'm gonna finally get to play, do it my own show there.

27:01 But I was, I had to sell the tickets.

27:03 Like I, you know, I had the tickets, the physical tickets.

27:06 So there was no like--

27:07 - Where do you learn 16 at the time?

27:08 - Probably, no, I'm probably 18 or 19 at this point.

27:12 - Still young.

27:13 And so there was one guy that was like

27:18 kind of booking a lot of the talent in Georgia

27:22 for like bigger shows, like he would bring like

27:24 C and B level artists, D level artists to Georgia

27:28 from Nashville to play shows, right?

27:31 And I was like, I need that guy to come to my show.

27:34 I need him there.

27:35 'Cause I think if he hears me, he'll at least let me open

27:37 for some of these shows he's booking.

27:38 And I knew one person that knew him and I was like,

27:40 whatever you do, you gotta get him here.

27:43 His name's Bradley Jordan.

27:44 Like you gotta get him here.

27:46 And Bradley came to the show.

27:48 And there was, I mean, there wasn't a ton of people there.

27:53 I maybe sold 200 tickets, which was awesome, my fault,

27:56 you know, right? - This is so good, yeah, yeah.

27:57 - And so Bradley comes, Bradley liked it.

28:00 He's like, man, I'm gonna start putting you on to open

28:02 for like these acts I'm bringing out in Nashville

28:04 if that's cool, I'm like, awesome.

28:05 - Let's go, yeah.

28:06 - So fast forward, I go to college.

28:10 I have a college degree in radiology, take x-rays.

28:14 You know, I'm doing that in my hometown.

28:16 And I'm like, man, I need to get to Nashville.

28:18 How do I get to Nashville?

28:20 So I'm living with my parents working this job,

28:22 trying to figure out how I'm getting to Nashville.

28:24 I know I'm going.

28:24 In the meantime, Bradley's put me to open these shows.

28:30 He calls me on a Friday.

28:30 He's like, hey, man, I'll give you 100 bucks.

28:32 If you can drive, my opener just bailed on this show.

28:35 100 bucks, drive to Rome, Georgia is about two and a half

28:38 hours away to come open the show.

28:40 I'm like, yes, I'll be there.

28:41 I just kept saying yes.

28:43 - Yeah, yeah.

28:44 - And I get there.

28:47 I'm like, by the way, who am I opening for?

28:49 - Right.

28:50 - And he's like, what's this new guy out of Nashville?

28:52 He just moved to Nashville's name's Luke Combs.

28:54 I'm like, okay, awesome.

28:56 I don't know who that is.

28:58 And so me and Luke are hanging out in the green room.

29:02 We hit it off and he goes, hey, man, why don't you come

29:05 to Nashville and write some songs with me?

29:06 And I'm like, perfect.

29:08 Nobody's ever invited me to Nashville to write songs.

29:11 I've been wanting to get there.

29:12 Let's do it.

29:13 So that was in about 2014, I guess, 2013, 2014.

29:18 I started driving back and forth from Georgia to Nashville

29:23 for nine months.

29:24 And then nine months later, I moved.

29:27 - Hey guys, real quick.

29:28 I know a lot of you guys struggle with getting

29:29 a consistent workout routine.

29:31 So wherever you get to, whether that's the global gym

29:34 or your home gym or even like a parking lot somewhere,

29:36 you get there and then, you don't know what to do.

29:38 You get there and you're just like, well, what in the world

29:40 am I supposed to do today?

29:40 And you just kind of meander around and maybe you're trying

29:43 to get ready for like a mountain hunt in the fall

29:45 or you've got a mud race coming up or you just want to be

29:48 generally a strong and fit dude for normal everyday life.

29:51 But you don't have a program that's tailored for you.

29:54 I want you guys to stop wasting time at the gym

29:56 or wherever you're working out and just settling

29:58 for that same old routine that you've always done.

30:00 It's time for you to get a guide that will help you reach

30:03 your fitness goals.

30:04 And that's why I want to introduce you to my friends

30:06 over at Mountain Tuff.

30:07 Mountain Tuff is a fitness and mental toughness app developed

30:10 by military special operators and mountain hunters.

30:13 That's becoming a global movement for building

30:15 mentally tough athletes on and off the mountain.

30:17 So Mountain Tuff is a native app ready to be downloaded

30:19 on all platforms.

30:20 So that includes iPhone, Android, Apple TV and Roku.

30:23 Once you sign up and download the app or access the website,

30:26 you immediately have access to literally hundreds

30:29 of exercise programs and thousands of workout videos.

30:32 Thousands, okay?

30:34 That includes structured hybrid strength

30:36 and endurance programs, daily workouts,

30:38 the full exercise library, mental toughness training,

30:41 prehab and rehab, the mountain tough community

30:43 and accountability and a bunch of other stuff.

30:45 And guys, you can use it all on the go online or offline,

30:49 no matter where you decide to train.

30:51 Just getting started, no problem.

30:52 They've got programs for beginners.

30:54 Have minimal gear or no gear?

30:56 All good, they have minimal gear and body weight programs.

30:59 Wanting to get into or maintain elite level fitness like me,

31:03 they've got you covered with programs

31:04 for top tier athletes too.

31:06 And guys, for a limited time,

31:08 Mountain Tuff is extending undaunted lifers like you

31:11 an incredible offer.

31:12 Go to mountaintuff.com.

31:14 That's M-T-N-Tuff.com.

31:17 And in order to code Kyle when you sign up for a monthly plan

31:19 to receive your first month free

31:22 after your 14 day free trial.

31:24 So for guys that aren't good at math,

31:26 that is six weeks free to make sure this app is for you

31:29 and I'm sure it will be.

31:30 That is six weeks free on the best in class physical

31:33 and mental training app in the world.

31:36 Stop wasting time.

31:37 It's time to get real fitness results

31:39 and let my friends at Mountain Tuff guide the way.

31:41 Again, go to M-T-N-Tuff.

31:43 That's mountaintuff.com promo code Kyle.

31:47 Okay, so Luke Holmes, I mean, dude, that's insane.

31:52 I mean, you wanna talk about looking backwards,

31:54 seeing whether the Lord's done for you

31:55 and the Lord's that he opened for you.

31:58 But at that point,

31:58 how much writing had you done?

32:01 I maybe had written, well, I actually had,

32:03 I had written one song.

32:05 Well, okay, so what did Luke Holmes see in you opening

32:11 that made him think, 'cause one thing to have someone play,

32:15 but as we were talking about last night,

32:17 there are people that are great writers,

32:18 that suck as performers, there are people

32:19 that are great performers that suck at writing.

32:21 Then there's that small group of people that can be both.

32:24 But like Luke hadn't seen you writing,

32:27 he only had seen you performing.

32:28 I just think he saw a dude who is like-minded.

32:32 We talked about life, we talked about the things we liked,

32:34 we both liked Eric Church, like,

32:36 we just had the same, we liked the same things.

32:39 And what he thought was a good song,

32:41 was a song that I thought was a good song.

32:43 So he's like, okay, well, we're like-minded in this.

32:45 So like, I think maybe we can write good songs together.

32:48 'Cause that's how I've always like kind of looked at it.

32:50 Like, if you said, hey, I like this song,

32:53 and I'm like, yeah, I like that song too.

32:54 We would probably agree on a lot of things.

32:57 You know, like, so that's where I think it came from.

33:01 Like, he recognized it, I recognized a good song.

33:04 And so maybe I could write one too.

33:07 - Okay, so- - That's what all I think

33:09 probably it was.

33:10 - Yeah, you know, that's actually true

33:11 'cause you and I last night,

33:13 and I let you play DJ a little bit in my car.

33:15 And you almost maybe driving oncoming traffic

33:17 'cause you said you hate Johnny Cash

33:19 with the fire of a million sons.

33:21 - I didn't say I hated it. - It was something like that.

33:22 It was something, you said something like that.

33:23 It was just one of the most egregious things

33:25 I've ever heard in my life.

33:26 And I was like, I almost, as opposed to driving you to dinner,

33:28 I almost drove your butt right back to the airport.

33:30 It's like, let's get this guy out of my presence immediately.

33:32 But like, it is interesting when you hear like, okay,

33:35 this guy likes this type of song or this type of music.

33:38 It does give you some insight into their taste,

33:41 their background, all that.

33:43 And so, okay, so you get invited to Nashville,

33:47 like, but you're not really a songwriter.

33:50 Like writing one song doesn't make you a songwriter.

33:52 So like, okay, what does that process even look like?

33:55 So you get to Nashville, right?

33:57 What do you just, you go into a room with your guitar

34:00 and you start like strumming and humming along

34:01 to something like what? - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

34:04 I mean, you're just literally just making up something.

34:06 - So you and Luke are in a room

34:08 or you and Luke and somebody and you're just kind of like,

34:10 - Hey, I've got this idea, you know, a title.

34:13 Typically, I mean, is where it would start.

34:15 Like, you know, whatever the title would be, you know?

34:20 And you would kind of start there,

34:23 hey, this is the title of the song.

34:24 This is what it's about.

34:25 And you would just honestly start making up stuff, literally.

34:29 The first song that Luke recorded

34:33 that me and him wrote together was a song called Lonely One.

34:35 It was on his very first record that he put out.

34:38 And the idea of the song was like a guy sitting at a bar

34:45 and going through a heartbreak, typical country music,

34:49 you know, and he's having this conversation

34:51 with the bartender, well, he finds out

34:53 that the bartender is also a heartbroken and it's like,

34:55 well, you're not the only lonely one.

34:57 So it was just like play on words, like just stuff like that.

35:01 And so, I mean, that's kind of the process, I guess.

35:05 And to this day, I mean, usually most songs, not all,

35:10 but most songs that I would be a part of,

35:12 they start with a title.

35:14 - Okay.

35:15 So are you, is there like,

35:17 is there something recording the entire time?

35:19 I remember like, I remember Stephen Tyler was talking

35:20 about like how Aerosmith would write stuff.

35:23 And they like, every single time they got together to jam,

35:26 they had something being recorded.

35:28 Because, you know, the guitarist is over there

35:29 and like he'll hit a lick that he's never hit before.

35:32 - For sure.

35:33 - And someone will be like, hey, can you play that again?

35:34 But they'll think about it like half an hour later.

35:36 And he's like, I have no idea what I just played,

35:37 but they just kind of go back to the thing.

35:39 So do you all have like--

35:40 - There's a lot of that going on.

35:41 And you know, there's been also been times

35:42 where there wasn't something recorded.

35:44 And you're like, hey, what'd you do while ago?

35:45 And they're like, I don't know.

35:46 - I have no idea.

35:47 - And I'm like, who was recording?

35:48 No one. And we're like, dang, come on.

35:51 - I mean, I've had that happen a million times.

35:53 So, you know, that's a lesson that we're always

35:57 in learning, I guess.

35:58 So, but typically it's just,

36:04 it's literally the same format.

36:05 I mean, song I did for me.

36:07 And then, Hummin' A Melody.

36:12 And usually trying to hum that.

36:15 And usually your title is part of your hook

36:18 of the chorus.

36:19 And so, what's a cool melody over that?

36:21 And then let's kind of work backwards a little bit.

36:23 And I'm always a guy, I don't start at point A.

36:27 Like I'm like, okay.

36:29 - You figure out the chorus

36:30 and then you figure out the intro.

36:31 - That's me, typically.

36:32 That's how I like to write.

36:32 'Cause I need to know where I'm going to.

36:34 'Cause to me, the culmination of a song

36:37 is where the hook lands at the end of the chorus.

36:39 Well, I need to know that before I know

36:41 where the story's gonna start, right?

36:45 And so, that's typically the process I like to take.

36:50 - So, I'm assuming most people in our audience

36:52 aren't like familiar with the music and everything like that.

36:54 So I'm gonna be asking a bunch of questions

36:56 of you how to probably gonna be mind-numbing,

36:57 but it's 'cause I'm an idiot and I don't understand this world.

37:00 So, okay.

37:01 So two questions.

37:02 One, when did you feel like what was the point

37:05 where you're like, oh, I'm a songwriter now.

37:07 So, well, let's just start there.

37:09 Like what's the point?

37:10 And we'll ask the second one so I don't forget.

37:11 So like, okay, at what point where you're like, okay,

37:14 I'm not just the opening act performer at a pizza joint.

37:16 Like, I'm a songwriter now.

37:18 And then also like, okay.

37:20 You and Luke are sitting there in the room,

37:22 strumming on your guitar, you're humming some things along.

37:24 At what point do you realize we have just made a song

37:28 and then now what happens?

37:30 Like, do you bring in a record executive

37:31 and play it for them?

37:32 And they say, yes, indeed, that is a song.

37:35 And then like, 'cause I know y'all write way more

37:38 than what ends up on a 12 song LP or whatever.

37:41 So when did you feel like you were a songwriter?

37:44 - Honestly, man, when I got to town

37:46 and started writing songs, it was more of a--

37:49 - Like immediate.

37:49 - Yeah, in the sense of almost like tricking yourself

37:53 in the sense like, this is who I am.

37:55 Like, I guess to build confidence, right?

37:58 But as far as like going, okay,

38:00 I think I might, this might be my job, you know,

38:03 in the future.

38:04 'Cause I was working at a hospital at the time.

38:06 I got a job at a hospital there.

38:08 And so I would write songs during the day,

38:11 work at the hospital at night, and I did that for a while.

38:13 And so, but I think probably once I got my first cut,

38:18 so when Luke, when that first, one of those songs

38:22 that me and Luke wrote very early on wound up

38:24 on his first record after he signed a record deal,

38:28 I was like, okay, well, and you're kind of naive

38:32 and kind of dumb and you're like, okay,

38:33 I'm gonna be rich off this.

38:35 And like, then you were--

38:36 - But you're out of the business, yeah.

38:37 Yeah, you have no clue.

38:38 So, but you do think, you know, okay, well,

38:42 I got a song on a record, like, this is awesome.

38:46 And then obviously Luke blew up.

38:48 And so you kind of, along those you go,

38:51 oh, wow, this might turn into something.

38:53 And so I guess from a confidence level,

38:57 I'm like, this is who I am from the get-go

38:59 when I get to Nashville.

39:00 But then also just landing your first cut on a record

39:04 that felt, you know, well, I'm actually, I did it, right?

39:08 'Cause I mean, I write, I've written hundreds,

39:11 probably thousands of songs that don't make the thing.

39:15 And like, you get done with 'em, you're like,

39:16 eh, I probably won't do anything.

39:18 But then you write one, you're like, okay, well,

39:20 that might do it.

39:20 And so I guess that's when.

39:25 And then I forgot your other question.

39:28 - Yeah, so essentially, like, what does the process look like

39:31 when, 'cause this is before, 'cause you explained last night,

39:33 like you get a publishing deal and you're like part of the,

39:35 you know, as Luke is blowing up, you're blowing up with them.

39:37 So we'll get to that.

39:38 But like, okay, you're in the room.

39:39 You've created the song, you and Luke are like,

39:42 this is a song now, you figured out all the words

39:44 and all the parts, you know, you don't have the full band,

39:46 you're full accompaniment yet.

39:48 But like, now what's the process to be like, okay,

39:50 this is a song now?

39:50 - Yeah, so I think in that process,

39:54 when me and Luke were writing early on

39:56 and we had like a core group of friends,

40:00 we were just kind of, that was our circle of writers.

40:04 We kind of just wrote there until, you know,

40:06 we expanded our networks.

40:07 But I think we didn't even have a clue what we were right,

40:12 what why we were writing.

40:15 We were just like, this is what you gotta do

40:17 when you come to Nashville

40:18 and you wanna be a songwriter, you just write songs.

40:19 We had no plan, who's gonna record 'em, nothing.

40:23 It just turned in.

40:24 Luke kind of started getting some attention on social media.

40:27 And so we started doing, we could kind of see his numbers

40:32 kind of going up on social media and then

40:35 he would start recording them.

40:36 But I mean, you were to write a song.

40:38 - And are you like studio in the same building

40:39 where you're writing?

40:40 - No, a lot of it, like if me and you were to write

40:43 a song right now, we would probably just pull out my phone

40:47 and I would grab my guitar and we would just

40:51 sing it into a voice memo, yeah.

40:54 - That's how you would do a demo?

40:55 - To an extent.

40:58 - Wow, okay.

40:59 - So a lot of it, but there's also producer,

41:04 we call them track guys who are also,

41:06 you can also write with them too.

41:08 So like me and you would be right with them

41:09 and he would be over there.

41:10 Me and you would be writing a song.

41:11 He would be building a track.

41:12 We get done writing it.

41:14 He's following along what we're doing.

41:15 He's got it mapped out on his thing and then we get done

41:17 and we sing it into his track.

41:19 So then you can have a fully produced demo

41:21 or you can do it the other way where we do the voice memo

41:24 and then I take that voice memo and I send it to a studio

41:29 or take it to a studio and we cut a demo with a live band.

41:34 - Is there any concern,

41:35 I was just thinking about this too.

41:36 Is there any concern at that moment that

41:38 when you send it somewhere, is it known?

41:40 This is my property because it's like,

41:43 couldn't they just like give that to one another artist

41:45 and be like, "Hey, sing this."

41:46 Like, well, what are your rights to that song?

41:50 - Yeah, it wouldn't happen.

41:51 - Okay.

41:53 - Yeah, that--

41:54 - I mean, I guess it's a bit worse.

41:55 - I mean, I guess it somehow could, but it just wouldn't.

41:56 - Okay.

41:57 So you got some sort of demo, you start sending it around

42:01 and then so--

42:02 - Yeah, so typically, like, if remove Luke

42:07 from the situation of me and you wrote a song--

42:09 - Yeah, it'd be a great song, it'd be a banger.

42:11 - It would be.

42:12 - Yeah, let's go.

42:13 - And so we're like, "Hey, this sounds like Blake Shelton."

42:17 We're like, "Okay, well, how do we get it to Blake Shelton?"

42:20 Well, let's see.

42:21 What connections do you have to Blake Shelton?

42:23 What connections do I have?

42:24 If we have publishing deals, our publishers,

42:27 they can get it to somebody.

42:29 - Right.

42:30 - What is the best way to get it to Blake Shelton?

42:32 So I go, "Well, I've got a connection to his producer,

42:34 "I'll send it there."

42:36 And then hopefully they fall in love with it.

42:38 It's literally like, it's almost like, not gambling,

42:42 but that's how many steps you gotta go to

42:45 for a song to be successful.

42:47 I mean, you gotta get somebody,

42:49 you gotta get one person to like the song,

42:50 aside from who wrote it, one person.

42:53 That person believes in enough to send it to somebody.

42:56 Then that person hears it and believes in it,

42:57 and they're like, "Yeah, I like this.

42:59 "Let me play it for Blake Shelton."

43:01 And then Blake Shelton listens to it,

43:02 and he's gotta go, "Yeah, man, I like that."

43:04 Then they go record the song, they get it back,

43:08 and the record label goes,

43:10 "Yeah, we like that song, let's put it on the record."

43:12 Or they could say, "Ah, we don't think

43:13 "that's gonna fit the record."

43:15 So then they've, if you've gotten all the way there,

43:19 they've recorded the song,

43:20 and then all of a sudden, it doesn't make the record.

43:22 There's so many stories about that in Nashville

43:24 of it getting all the way there,

43:26 and the artist even goes and records the song,

43:29 and it doesn't make the record.

43:30 So then it just lives in the middle of nowhere,

43:32 and nobody ever hears it.

43:33 - Yeah, it'll be, after the person dies,

43:35 it'll be the albums that are released of the tracks.

43:37 - There's so many songs in Nashville

43:39 that are just sitting on shelves, technically, you know,

43:42 that are probably the best songs you've ever heard,

43:46 but nobody will ever hear 'em.

43:47 - Just 'cause one exec didn't like it,

43:49 and they just--

43:49 - One person knew it like it, or whatever.

43:51 - Okay, so let's take the scenario.

43:52 So Oklahoma boy Blake Shelton, you know, for whatever way

43:55 you weave through, it gets to someone on his team,

43:58 it gets to Blake, he's like, yeah, I like this,

43:59 this is my kind of song, he records it,

44:02 and the executives like, no, we think that's great,

44:05 let's record that, or let's keep that

44:07 for the upcoming record.

44:08 Okay, so now what does that look like for you?

44:10 Because it's not Blake's song.

44:12 - Correct.

44:13 - It's your song, but now it kind of reminds me, again,

44:16 I'm gonna have to bring up Johnny Cash

44:17 since you hate him so much, but like Trent Reznor

44:20 of Nine Inch Nails, Hurt is a Nine Inch Nails song.

44:24 But I remember Trent Reznor being interviewed

44:26 after the American recordings that Johnny Cash did of Hurt,

44:29 which is, you know, for my money,

44:31 one of the most incredible songs and videos I've ever seen.

44:33 And Trent Reznor goes, the moment I gave Johnny Cash

44:36 permission to sing my song,

44:37 I realized it was not my song anymore.

44:39 And this is before he had heard the final track,

44:41 he's like, that's not a Trent Reznor

44:43 and Nine Inch Nails song anymore, it's his.

44:45 But he had recorded it, like that was his song,

44:48 he wrote it, and then Johnny Cash just did his take on it

44:51 and it just became his.

44:52 And you see that, like, how many times you see a song

44:54 that you don't realize is a cover?

44:55 You said Keith Whitley is like one of your favorites.

44:57 Well, there's like an Allison Krauss song,

44:59 that's a Keith Whitley song, but the first time I heard

45:01 it was Allison Krauss in Union Station.

45:03 So in my head, it's her song.

45:04 So like, how does that work?

45:05 - Well, Chris Stapleton, Tennessee Whiskey.

45:07 That's a George Jones song.

45:09 - Shocking, right?

45:10 You know, and you know, and George Jones

45:13 didn't write Tennessee Whiskey either.

45:15 Like, that was written by just a guy named Dean Dillard

45:18 and one of the greatest songwriters ever.

45:21 And he wrote it, George Jones recorded it.

45:24 And then years later, Chris Stapleton records

45:27 his own version, you know?

45:28 - Right, and that blew him up.

45:30 So, okay, back to the Blake Shelton thing.

45:32 He loves it, executive loves it, all that.

45:34 Okay, what does that mean for the album?

45:37 What does that mean for Blake?

45:38 What does that mean for you at the very, you know,

45:40 start of this thing?

45:41 - So, and I don't know how deep we want to get into this,

45:45 but--

45:45 - We are all the time in a world.

45:46 - There are, and I tried to explain this yesterday,

45:49 the best I could, and this is so confusing.

45:53 A song has two pies, okay?

45:57 There's a Master Pie, there's a songwriter pie, okay?

46:01 The Master Pie is the sound recording.

46:03 So, the record label puts it out,

46:06 whatever it makes on the recording, okay?

46:09 There's also a songwriter pie.

46:10 So, and I don't know how the money is split.

46:13 How do they determine what money goes to this pie

46:15 and what money goes to that pie?

46:16 I have no clue.

46:16 But let's take the songwriter pie.

46:21 So, this song is somehow split.

46:23 So, I'm gonna get paid out of the songwriter pie.

46:25 Well, in the songwriter pie,

46:27 that pie is cut amongst songwriters, okay?

46:30 So, if me and you wrote a song, you get half the pie,

46:32 I get half the pie.

46:33 Well, then you're half of the pie,

46:35 you got to split your half of the pie with whoever

46:38 you have a publishing deal with.

46:39 Now, if you don't have a publishing deal

46:40 and you're an independent songwriter,

46:41 you get your whole half.

46:42 - Okay, but I more than likely have a publishing deal.

46:44 - More than likely.

46:46 So, then you got to split that somewhere

46:48 and I would do the same with my pie.

46:50 And then, but me and you as songwriters,

46:54 we get nothing, no money from this master pie over here.

46:58 And now, what's crazy to me is how it's all figured up.

47:05 I like, it makes no sense to me

47:10 because someone streams the song me and you wrote,

47:14 they stream it on Spotify.

47:16 Well, we get paid differently than if they go stream

47:18 at one time on Apple Music or one time on YouTube.

47:20 It's not like a universal number across the board,

47:23 which is very confusing to me.

47:25 And I guess probably confusing to everyone.

47:27 Like, why that's not.

47:28 Like, why does our song have a different value

47:31 on this network than on this one?

47:33 Like, it's the same song.

47:34 - When you even tell me what,

47:35 last time you told me for every a million streams

47:37 on Spotify, that's like $4,000 in revenue.

47:39 - So like, so like, I think that's if you own the master.

47:43 - So if you own the whole part of this pie.

47:45 - If you own the part of this pie.

47:46 - Okay.

47:47 - On the songwriter's side, it's like 0.0007 cents, I think.

47:52 - Gee, okay.

47:54 - Per stream, that's per stream.

47:56 And then that split amongst songwriters.

47:58 So that point, so every time the song me and you wrote,

48:02 get streamed on Spotify, 0.0007, I think is the number.

48:10 It's either three zeros or four zeros.

48:11 Anyway, that amount, pennies, I mean,

48:16 we're talking not even pennies.

48:17 Fractions of pennies goes into the songwriter pie.

48:20 Well, then there's people eating,

48:22 there's more than just me and you eating from this pie.

48:25 So I mean, you split the 0.7 and then whoever's also eating

48:28 from our pie is taking a fraction of what me

48:32 and you just took.

48:33 - Wow, okay.

48:34 - So it takes for streaming, I mean,

48:36 you can make money as a songwriter

48:40 if someone's streaming your songs that you've written,

48:43 but like they've got to be streaming a lot.

48:45 That's why Morgan Wallen is very awesome

48:49 to get a cut on Morgan Wallen record, Luke Holmes.

48:54 We're talking guys that stream tons.

48:57 - How do you say millions?

48:58 - Yes.

48:59 So I don't know, that's how that works.

49:05 How do we make it where people can make a little more money

49:08 just by getting a song recorded?

49:10 Because if, here's the reality, if you don't get a song

49:13 to be a single at-country radio, terrestrial radio,

49:21 it's hard to make like a real living.

49:24 - That's what I was gonna ask.

49:25 So like, you know, a fraction of a fraction of a fraction

49:28 of a penny split amongst several other people.

49:31 Like a million streams is $4,000.

49:33 It's like, it's not no money,

49:35 but it's almost like no money

49:36 if you're trying to live in a city like Nashville.

49:38 - Yeah, and we're talking about,

49:39 we're talking about if that song streamed a million

49:41 like immediately, then you get that.

49:43 But like, we're talking about, it doesn't.

49:45 - It could stream a million over a year.

49:46 - Exactly.

49:47 - Right, okay.

49:48 And a million's a lot.

49:49 - That's a lot of streams.

49:50 - Yeah, that's awesome.

49:51 Somebody loves your product.

49:52 - Right, okay.

49:54 So help me attach, so you're a songwriter,

49:58 people obviously make very good livings

50:01 and can make very lucrative livings off of writing songs,

50:04 but that doesn't make any sense on the streaming world.

50:06 And I know it's changed 'cause back in the day,

50:08 it was basically all radio and touring

50:11 'cause there was no other option.

50:12 Oh, and album sales,

50:13 but now no one's really buying albums

50:15 because, you know, that's not really super duper a thing.

50:18 Like, yeah, if you're buying albums and CDs

50:20 from Walmart or if you're buying vinyls and all that,

50:22 but almost everything has gone to streaming, go ahead.

50:24 - So that royalty rate, so like if streaming didn't exist

50:28 and there's a physical product

50:30 and you had to go to Walmart to buy Luke Combs record,

50:32 that's the only place you could get is

50:34 if you go to Walmart, Target or whatever.

50:35 - Yeah.

50:37 - Okay, I mean, you had a song, a two-way song on there.

50:41 That song, I think, got, you'd get nine cents a copy,

50:45 which is a lot.

50:48 That's a lot compared to what we're getting now.

50:49 - Right, it was streaming, okay.

50:51 - Okay, and that rate, that nine-cent rate,

50:55 I think it's nine cents.

50:56 Don't hold me to any of these exact guys, but--

50:58 - Yeah, there were, it is.

51:00 - That rate was set years and years and years ago,

51:05 like maybe in the 1930s.

51:08 - Really? - Okay.

51:09 - Okay, well that rate was set

51:12 when streaming didn't exist,

51:14 Napster didn't, nobody knew that the internet didn't even,

51:17 like we didn't know that we were gonna get to this point.

51:19 - Right, radio and touring controlled everything.

51:22 - Yeah. - Whenever that was made.

51:23 - Yes, in physical sales.

51:25 - Right.

51:26 - That rate has not changed in 2025.

51:29 Here we are almost a hundred years later,

51:31 and we're still living off this old physical sales model.

51:36 - 'Cause it's good for the record companies, I guess.

51:40 - Yeah. - That's why they're

51:41 keeping it that way. - So, I don't know, man.

51:43 I mean, I wouldn't discourage anyone

51:46 from being a songwriter, but I think people,

51:50 it's hard to understand,

51:52 'cause it is a very, very, very confusing business,

51:55 and I think they like it that way, to be honest with you.

51:59 - But, and don't let me, don't hear what I'm not saying.

52:03 I've been super blessed.

52:05 Like, the Lord has taken care of me and my family.

52:07 I've been fortunate to have hit songs at Country Radio,

52:11 and those have been awesome.

52:12 But like, if you don't have those, it can be tough.

52:17 - It can be a slog.

52:17 Okay, so we talked about this last night.

52:19 So, because I mentioned last night,

52:21 I was like, I don't remember the last time

52:22 I turned the radio.

52:23 Actually, I do remember last time I was getting to drive

52:27 my grandfather, who has passed away,

52:29 his 71 Ford Ranger, that's all original.

52:33 Like, the whole thing was at my dad's house.

52:36 And that was the first vehicle I ever drove.

52:38 I was like 13 years old.

52:39 My grandpa was like, let's drive around the neighborhood,

52:40 right?

52:41 And I'm like blowing through stop signs,

52:42 'cause I don't know what stop signs are.

52:43 Like, it's just stupid, right?

52:44 But this was like, separated by 30 years.

52:48 Here I am driving, you know, my grandpa's truck.

52:50 - Yeah.

52:51 - Well, it just got the original radio.

52:53 And so, we're just listening to AM or whatever,

52:56 but I was like, okay, like who listens to the radio?

52:58 And you're like, dude, everybody.

53:00 That is still king in this world.

53:03 And so like, okay, let's talk about that process.

53:05 So let's stay with the Blake Shelton example.

53:07 Europe's from a long blah, blah, blah.

53:08 You and whoever you're riding with is like,

53:10 this is a Blake Shelton song.

53:11 You weave it up to Blake Shelton.

53:12 He's like, yeah, I like it.

53:13 They recorded the record deal, record company.

53:16 They were like, yeah, let's get this out there.

53:18 Now, how does it get pitched to country radio?

53:23 And then just take us all the way to, okay.

53:24 Now it's a hit, like what does a hit mean?

53:27 'Cause everyone knows what a number one hit is.

53:29 I think we at least kind of understand what that is.

53:31 But like, how does that all happen?

53:32 - Yeah, so a record label has a radio promotion team.

53:37 So they would work the song at radio.

53:40 They would announce, hey, Blake Shelton's next single is X song.

53:45 It's gonna be going to country radio.

53:48 And so radio stations start playing it.

53:53 And so there's two radio charts.

53:58 There's a billboard chart

53:59 and there's a country air check media based chart.

54:03 Billboard chart is where the song lands on the chart

54:08 is determined by audience.

54:10 So how many people heard this song this week?

54:12 Media base is how many times it got played, okay?

54:16 And a lot of times the two charts line up.

54:19 Sometimes they don't, but a lot of times they do.

54:22 So there's no thing that makes a song a hit.

54:27 I mean, if it's a number one song, you're like,

54:29 well, that's a hit.

54:30 But like, there's a lot of songs that never got to number one

54:32 that I think are hit songs.

54:33 Jamie Johnson in color hit song never was a number one song.

54:37 - Yeah.

54:38 - Mind blowing.

54:39 That's just hard for me to even wrap my head around.

54:41 So, but from a, you know, business side of things.

54:48 So there's royalty, there's like a collection agencies,

54:53 I guess, I'm a member of BMI.

54:57 So broadcast music incorporated.

54:59 So they collect my royalties for me.

55:03 And so they have hit song bonuses.

55:08 So if a song gets from top 40 to 30, you get a bonus.

55:13 From 30 to 20, you get a bonus.

55:17 And I don't know what the exact like deviations are,

55:21 but it might be 30 to 25, and then 25 to 20.

55:24 But anyway, 20 to 10, then like 10 to five,

55:26 and then like five to two, and then like, oh, number one.

55:29 Like there's different like levels of bonus.

55:32 And so, but the radio promotion team

55:36 is working the song at radio.

55:37 Blake Shelton's traveling around,

55:39 and he's, you know, playing shows for these radio stations,

55:43 you know, hoping that they'll play his music.

55:45 And the whole concept of where this even came from years ago,

55:50 so is to promote a record, to promote a physical record.

55:54 Like that's how everybody made money was,

55:56 let's play this song on radio,

55:58 then we'll sell these physical copies.

56:00 And that's how they determined

56:01 whether it got, whether it kept playing on radio.

56:04 It's like, well, we've been playing it in Oklahoma City,

56:07 and this, your record sold 10 copies this week.

56:11 We're not gonna play your song anymore.

56:12 Nobody likes it 'cause nobody's buying it.

56:14 You know, and that was kind of how it, it worked by them.

56:18 But like now, you know, there's physical copies.

56:21 There's really no, there's really no way to understand,

56:25 you know, there's consumption rates

56:27 that they now look at from, you know, streaming.

56:29 And there is, oh, what's the word for it?

56:34 Research, the radio does research.

56:37 So radio calls you and they go, hey, Kyle,

56:42 we're gonna play you five songs.

56:44 Press one if you like it, two if you don't.

56:47 And they'll play a small clip of this Blake Shelton song.

56:49 And if you hit one, you say, and you liked it.

56:52 So then they take all the people that they did research

56:55 and they're like, well, 100% of the people we sent it to

56:57 said they liked it, so we're gonna keep playing it.

56:59 - Okay.

57:00 - That's kind of what we're doing now.

57:00 Which is kind of an old school model to me, you know.

57:06 - And so for you specifically--

57:09 - Well, let's talk about, so you've had--

57:10 - We are in the weeds right now too.

57:12 - Okay, this is not interesting to you guys.

57:14 I don't care if it's interesting to me

57:15 'cause I'm the one sitting here.

57:16 No, I think people will find this interesting

57:18 because I always like digging into people's worlds,

57:20 like whatever business or thing that they're neck deep in.

57:24 But I think this is, everyone consumes music,

57:27 but we don't know how people make money, right?

57:28 And then, you know, we've heard about these horrible deals

57:31 where you have this artist like, I remember this so funny

57:33 'cause the first CD that I owned was TLC Crazy Sexy Cool, right?

57:39 So I'm like eight years old or something like that.

57:41 But I remember like the VH1,

57:44 buying the music or whatever TLC,

57:45 they sold however many millions of records of that LP.

57:50 And they made, as an artist, they made nothing.

57:54 Like, they're like, we had no money.

57:56 Like, we were being taken care of on the road

57:57 and stuff like that, but in terms of our bank accounts,

57:59 we had no money 'cause the deal they were signed to

58:01 was like egregious.

58:02 It was like a terrible, terrible deal.

58:04 But like, okay, so for you,

58:06 let's talk about your first number one

58:08 because you've had a handful of number ones in your career.

58:12 So let's talk about that process.

58:14 So you write a song, like when you wrote it,

58:16 did you like, did you know?

58:18 'Cause like, I'm thinking like as a podcast there,

58:20 sometimes I'm like, oh, this was a great, great podcast.

58:22 No one ever talks about it.

58:24 And there's times where I just kind of mailed it in

58:25 and people are like, dude, that's the one right there.

58:27 You know what I mean?

58:28 So let's talk about that.

58:29 - So my first number one was a song

58:32 called "Homemade" for Jacob and I had never had a hit song.

58:38 I had had like, maybe a couple songs recorded,

58:43 like, you know, that were on records,

58:45 but I had never had like a song picked to say,

58:49 "Hey, this is gonna be our next radio single."

58:51 And even when they say that, you're like,

58:53 "Oh, that's awesome."

58:53 Like, we did it.

58:55 But then you got, it's got to,

58:57 - It's got to actually happen.

58:57 - It's got to happen.

58:58 - Yes, people got to love it, you know?

59:00 But when we wrote that song, I mean, I had never written,

59:04 I had never had a hit song before,

59:05 so I didn't technically know what one was.

59:08 But man, dude, I felt, I was like,

59:10 if there ever was one, this has got to be it.

59:12 Like, this has got to be it.

59:13 'Cause it was very up, it felt fun.

59:19 And it was a country song.

59:21 Like, and it was like, I mean, "Homemade."

59:24 Homemade me love a dirt road.

59:25 Homemade me love sweet tea.

59:29 Only mama knows how to make homemade.

59:31 Homemade me love a small town.

59:33 You know, it's like, it's all these plays on "Homemade."

59:35 Everything I love is "Homemade."

59:37 And so I was like, what does the trick

59:40 of like using the hook in different ways?

59:42 And so it just felt like a hit, it really did.

59:45 So it kind of got in the hands of different artists

59:50 in town very quickly.

59:53 People were like, yes, we wanna record this.

59:55 Yes, we wanna record this.

59:56 Yes, we wanna record this.

59:57 Jacob, and here's it.

59:59 He's like, I wanna record it,

1:00:00 and I wanna jump the line,

1:00:02 and I wanna record it this week.

1:00:04 So then we have to like, okay, well, what do we,

1:00:06 how do we, how do we do this?

1:00:08 'Cause it's kind of an honor system, honestly.

1:00:11 Yeah, so what happens if like five artists

1:00:13 all wanna record it, like who gets to?

1:00:15 Is it literally the first one to the studio?

1:00:19 Yeah, I mean, that's kind of the rule now, I guess.

1:00:22 There is no rule, that's the problem.

1:00:23 There's no like, there's no,

1:00:25 because artists don't have to pay you to hold a song.

1:00:29 That's another slight little small issue

1:00:32 that I kind of have with the whole thing is like,

1:00:36 you could say, Kyle, you could be the biggest country artist,

1:00:38 and you could say, hey, I love the song,

1:00:41 I wanna hold it, but I'm not recording

1:00:44 for another year and a half.

1:00:46 So here you are, you literally are holding on

1:00:48 to my song for a year and a half,

1:00:49 and then your record comes out and you hate the song down,

1:00:51 so then you don't record it,

1:00:52 and you've like, kept me from getting recorded

1:00:55 by somebody else for a year and a half.

1:00:57 So now it only, I think there's, there is no rule.

1:01:04 There's no rule, it's just like,

1:01:06 if a bunch of people put it on hold,

1:01:09 and then this one guy goes, I want it,

1:01:10 and I'm gonna record it this week.

1:01:12 Usually the songwriters are just gonna go,

1:01:15 "Yeah, go ahead, please, thank you."

1:01:16 You're telling us you're gonna record it, so go ahead.

1:01:18 We don't know, we don't want it to sit

1:01:21 in the pocket of this other person for a year and a half.

1:01:24 And they probably weren't gonna do that,

1:01:25 but let's take a chance on who's gonna cut it right away.

1:01:28 So that was kind of how that happened.

1:01:31 We wound up on his record, record label loved it.

1:01:34 I remember getting a call from one of my co-writers

1:01:37 who found out it was gonna be the next single dude.

1:01:38 And I mean, that was the moment for me

1:01:42 where I was like, "Oh my gosh,

1:01:44 or me and my wife, we were, you know,

1:01:47 we had been married four years at this point,

1:01:51 and we're three and a half when we found out

1:01:55 that it was gonna be the single,

1:01:55 and I mean, we're celebrating, dude.

1:01:58 I mean, I'm crying, I mean, I'm crying.

1:01:59 This is what you work for to get a single.

1:02:03 And we're celebrating, and I was still working

1:02:08 at the hospital, and then song goes number one,

1:02:12 March 22nd of 2020, right in the middle of COVID,

1:02:17 which honestly, when COVID started, you know,

1:02:21 like the COVID thing was happening,

1:02:22 and we were like, "Oh my God,

1:02:23 is country radio is gonna like just shut off."

1:02:25 Luckily, our song was already researching as a hit

1:02:30 when like COVID happened, right?

1:02:32 And so it didn't kill it, right?

1:02:38 Because they country radio because nobody was in their cars.

1:02:43 So nobody was really listening to the radio

1:02:46 'cause nobody was going anywhere.

1:02:48 And so the things country radio was playing

1:02:50 was very familiar stuff.

1:02:52 The only way we can get people to listen

1:02:54 is if we play things they know.

1:02:56 Well, luckily ours was already like in the top 10

1:02:58 at the point.

1:02:59 And anyway, it ends up going number one,

1:03:02 March 22nd of 2020, I called my boss at the hospital.

1:03:06 And I had made a deal with her

1:03:07 that if I ever got a number one song

1:03:09 that I would work one more shift

1:03:10 and then I was gonna quit.

1:03:12 So I called her on a Sunday, the chart come out,

1:03:15 March 22nd, 2020, number one song, homemade jicco.

1:03:18 And I called my boss at the hospital.

1:03:19 I'm like, hey, I got my first number one.

1:03:21 I'll be there tomorrow, but that's gonna be it for me.

1:03:23 She was like, congratulations, awesome.

1:03:24 - Wow, that's cool.

1:03:25 - And so Monday rolls around.

1:03:28 I'm in my bedroom, putting my scrubs on,

1:03:30 getting ready to go work my last shift.

1:03:31 I mean, dude, life couldn't get any better.

1:03:33 I mean, it was awesome, except COVID, you know.

1:03:37 - Yeah.

1:03:38 - Wouldn't allow anybody to go anywhere.

1:03:39 So I'm putting my scrubs on, getting ready

1:03:42 to go work my last shift on cloud 1000, dude, life.

1:03:47 As I'm putting my scrubs on my wife walks in the bedroom

1:03:50 and says, hey, my water just broke.

1:03:52 - Oh, shoot.

1:03:55 - So I had to call my boss back and say,

1:03:57 - Just kidding.

1:03:58 - Hey, actually I am coming to the hospital,

1:04:01 but I'm not coming to work.

1:04:03 My Mallory has gone into labor.

1:04:06 And I get to the hospital.

1:04:09 My boss comes and helps us get out of the car.

1:04:11 And I never, I never worked my last shift there.

1:04:14 So in a matter of 72 hours, had my first number one,

1:04:18 quit my job and became a dad.

1:04:21 - Dad, for the first time too.

1:04:22 - First time.

1:04:23 - Bro.

1:04:24 - And 72 hours.

1:04:24 I mean, dude, I look back on that.

1:04:29 And for the longest time, dude, I struggled with saying

1:04:33 2020 was the best year of my life.

1:04:35 Because for a lot of people, it wasn't.

1:04:36 Like a lot of people passed away, you know,

1:04:38 and a lot of people went through struggle.

1:04:40 And for a long time, dude, I felt guilty for saying

1:04:43 2020 was the best year of my life.

1:04:44 But then I like people were like, dude, that what?

1:04:49 If it was the best year of your life,

1:04:50 it was the best year of your life.

1:04:51 And so, and it truly was.

1:04:54 I mean, dude, I mean, everything that I worked so hard for

1:04:56 for the last five years, I moved to Nashville in 2015,

1:04:59 had my first hit in 2020.

1:05:01 Like everything that I worked hard for had happened.

1:05:05 First hit, quit my real job, you know.

1:05:08 And become a dad.

1:05:11 And so like everything was like, awesome.

1:05:15 And, I mean, yeah.

1:05:19 - Well, so let's take that out and let's extrapolate

1:05:22 that out further.

1:05:23 Because now, and for, you know, all the guys in our audience,

1:05:25 when you became a first time dad,

1:05:26 a lot of things became real.

1:05:28 'Cause like, I've talked about this before

1:05:29 because I was prepared 'cause everyone was like,

1:05:31 hey, you know, at the moment, you see that baby.

1:05:34 You're never gonna know that you could love something so much.

1:05:37 And like, you're just gonna attach to immediately.

1:05:39 I didn't have that feeling.

1:05:40 And I thought, oh no, something's broken in me.

1:05:42 Because like, when I'm looking at James,

1:05:44 little James, I'm like, oh my gosh.

1:05:46 Like, I don't know, I don't want to hold him

1:05:48 'cause I'll drop him.

1:05:49 Like this is like, you know, I got good hands,

1:05:50 but this thing's gonna wiggle out of my hands.

1:05:53 And it took me, honestly, about six weeks.

1:05:56 Like I knew I loved him like intellectually,

1:05:58 but it was like, it was just weird because you're not,

1:06:00 you're dad.

1:06:01 And so your job is to take care of everything around mom.

1:06:04 So mom can keep your progeny alive, right?

1:06:07 But at six weeks old, we were rushing him to hospital

1:06:09 in the middle of the night for emergency surgery, right?

1:06:11 And you're handing your baby over to a nurse.

1:06:13 I still get upset thinking about it

1:06:15 'cause you're like, oh no, this could be the last time

1:06:18 I even touch you 'cause you're going in a surgery

1:06:20 and you're six weeks old, you're so small.

1:06:22 And obviously it worked out fine.

1:06:23 But like, it does change where you're like, okay,

1:06:27 before that you're just providing for you

1:06:29 and you and your wife.

1:06:31 And you know, she's probably working,

1:06:33 you're working, you're trying to make ends meet.

1:06:34 You know, whatever the economy's doing,

1:06:36 that doesn't really affect your next shift.

1:06:38 You just gotta go and work it and get paid to do your job.

1:06:41 But now you're a hit songwriter.

1:06:43 You're a number one songwriter

1:06:44 and you've got progeny now.

1:06:46 You've got a baby.

1:06:47 So talk about your mindset a little bit of like, okay,

1:06:52 I've made it, but I don't wanna be the songwriter equivalent

1:06:55 of a one hit wonder. - For sure.

1:06:56 - Where this is the last time anyone buys anything

1:06:58 I've ever done in the last time that we're successful.

1:07:00 Now there's the added pressure of like, oh crap,

1:07:02 there's that extra amount to feed

1:07:04 and you don't wanna be a loser dad.

1:07:05 So let's talk about, okay, what does your career look like

1:07:08 now that you've kind of made those shifts?

1:07:10 - Yeah, so I quit, I mean I quit.

1:07:13 - So you're not doing radiology anymore?

1:07:16 It's like you're done with that.

1:07:17 - And also, this was about the time.

1:07:22 So I quit the hospital, I'm writing songs

1:07:25 and I'm like, okay, now let me start focusing

1:07:28 on my artist career.

1:07:29 Okay, so. - Oh yeah, I guess

1:07:32 I kind of forgot like you were trying to,

1:07:33 you know, do it yourself as well.

1:07:34 - Yeah, yeah, just write songs.

1:07:35 - Not just write songs, just be a songwriter,

1:07:37 be an artist too.

1:07:39 - So this is like about the time I started,

1:07:41 and I was on, I was actually on "Toward Luke Combs"

1:07:45 when all this, when like COVID happened.

1:07:47 Like my last show before COVID was "Rupp Arena"

1:07:52 in Lexington, Kentucky, where Kentucky plays basketball.

1:07:56 - So are you playing with Luke's band or your opening?

1:07:59 - No, I was wanting one of the opens.

1:08:00 - And so are you singing your songs?

1:08:01 Are you singing my songs? - Yeah, singing my songs.

1:08:03 - Okay, yeah, yeah.

1:08:04 - So singing my songs.

1:08:06 So I was doing the artist saying,

1:08:07 I hadn't really, I had put out like a four song EP, okay?

1:08:11 And so I was kind of, those were the songs I was playing.

1:08:14 I was playing maybe 30 minutes.

1:08:16 So it was me, Ashley McBride, Luke Combs, on that tour.

1:08:21 So that tour was over, COVID happens, hit song,

1:08:26 become a dad, quit my job.

1:08:28 So now I don't have a real job.

1:08:32 We're writing songs on Zoom now because of COVID.

1:08:36 And so I start focusing on my artist's career.

1:08:41 Like, what are the steps I need to take

1:08:43 for my artist's career to take off?

1:08:46 So doing that, new dad.

1:08:49 We were about to, I was about to put out,

1:08:57 I was actually, I had an EP recorded.

1:08:59 I'm rethinking all this stuff.

1:09:00 I hadn't thought about it in a long time.

1:09:02 I had an EP recorded that I was gonna put out right.

1:09:07 Like March of 2020.

1:09:10 I didn't put it out 'cause of COVID.

1:09:12 We were like, well, the tour got canceled.

1:09:14 The tour was over.

1:09:16 So why am I, there's no need to put music out right now.

1:09:18 Let's wait.

1:09:19 Well, then like October rolls around and I'm like,

1:09:23 and this is the perfect time to put music out, you know?

1:09:26 So I call my manager, I'm like, hey,

1:09:28 like people are in, the world is basically in turmoil.

1:09:33 And hey, if I've got this six song EP,

1:09:36 I think it was, it's 30 minutes worth of music.

1:09:41 You know, 20 minutes worth of music.

1:09:42 If for 20 minutes somebody can listen to it

1:09:44 and forget about the craziness that's in the world,

1:09:46 let's do that.

1:09:47 So in October, I put this EP out.

1:09:49 There was one song on it called "Why You're Gonna" blew up.

1:09:53 It got picked up by SiriusXM.

1:09:55 It was played on the highway.

1:09:57 It went number one on the highway.

1:09:58 Me as an artist, my first number one as an artist

1:10:01 on SiriusXM.

1:10:02 Very big for me.

1:10:03 My fan base grew very large.

1:10:08 Or at least for what I thought was large, you know?

1:10:12 And so that happens.

1:10:16 Then the record labels kind of start coming

1:10:20 'cause they're seeing me have success independently.

1:10:22 So then in November of 2020,

1:10:26 I signed a record deal with Warner Music Nashville

1:10:28 as an artist.

1:10:30 You know, so here I am writing songs,

1:10:32 still writing songs hoping that I'm gonna write something

1:10:34 that somebody else loves, but also I'm writing something

1:10:37 and I'm like, well, I love this,

1:10:38 so I'm gonna put this over here for me.

1:10:40 And if I didn't fill something like it was something for me

1:10:45 or something that I wanted to sing about or whatever,

1:10:47 I would pitch it, you know, to ex-artist.

1:10:50 So that went on for a while

1:10:53 and I continued writing songs with Luke

1:10:56 and then wound up with some songs on his,

1:10:59 what you see is what you get record.

1:11:02 I think I had three songs or four songs on that record.

1:11:05 - Okay, so let's talk about,

1:11:07 so you're still working with Luke.

1:11:09 Tell me about the relationship

1:11:12 that you guys are developing with one another

1:11:14 'cause obviously you hit it off in the green room

1:11:16 back at that show that you open for him.

1:11:19 You've written some songs together.

1:11:20 You've written some songs that went onto albums of his,

1:11:23 you know, you're touring and so like y'all's careers

1:11:27 are kind of like intertwined to a degree.

1:11:30 - Yeah, for sure.

1:11:31 So you're trying to make it, you know, as a solo guy,

1:11:34 solo act and you've got your deal.

1:11:37 So like when you got your deal,

1:11:39 did that like complicate what you were doing with Luke?

1:11:41 Were you kind of still writing?

1:11:43 Like, well, what did that look like?

1:11:43 - No, it didn't.

1:11:45 We, you know, I mean, he's one of my closest friends.

1:11:48 Like, yes, we worked together

1:11:50 in the sense of writing songs, but like he, you know--

1:11:53 - Hey y'all, just boys.

1:11:53 - Yes, if he called me, I'd go do whatever he needed me to,

1:11:56 you know, and he would do the same for me.

1:11:58 And so we're just continuing to write songs

1:12:02 and hang out.

1:12:03 He would, he was nice enough to bring me along for tours

1:12:07 to, 'cause he knew I was trying to do the art of saying,

1:12:09 he believed in me.

1:12:10 - And he gets to make that call as a headliner?

1:12:12 - Yeah, yeah.

1:12:13 - Or like, okay.

1:12:13 - He's like, hey, I want Drew to become like--

1:12:14 - I didn't know if like the management or like,

1:12:15 you know, they get to force somebody on tour with you.

1:12:18 - Yeah, I mean, he's making the decision,

1:12:20 ultimately making the decision.

1:12:21 He's like, I want Drew to come on tour.

1:12:22 So I mean, I've toured with him so many times

1:12:25 on different tours.

1:12:26 So he believed in me, I'm touring with him.

1:12:28 So now here I am doing the songwriter thing,

1:12:32 but also touring with him, promoting my music now

1:12:36 and trying to grow a fan base.

1:12:38 And so nothing really changed, honestly.

1:12:42 When I got the record deal, they took "Why You're Gone"

1:12:47 when I signed in November of 2020.

1:12:49 They took "Why You're Gone", the song that was number one

1:12:51 at Sirius XM independently, they got it.

1:12:53 And they sent it to terrestrial radio.

1:12:57 Now, the exact opposite happened of what happened

1:13:01 with homemade, so when nobody was driving in their cars,

1:13:06 homemade was already like top 10,

1:13:08 so they didn't quit playing it, right?

1:13:11 'Cause it was familiar to their listeners.

1:13:13 The exact opposite happened with my song.

1:13:15 I'm a new artist, song no one knows,

1:13:18 other than whoever's heard it on Sirius XM

1:13:20 or whoever streamed it, right?

1:13:23 It goes to terrestrial radio and just,

1:13:25 I mean, it gets like top 40, you know?

1:13:28 And that's just kind of where it stalled,

1:13:31 because I think it's because like,

1:13:36 country radio, they needed to play songs that were familiar.

1:13:41 'Cause the purpose of country radio,

1:13:42 the purpose of radio, period, is not to play music.

1:13:45 The purpose of radio is to sell advertising.

1:13:48 - Yeah, sell ads.

1:13:49 - But to keep people listening,

1:13:51 to hear the advertisement is to play familiar songs.

1:13:55 If I come on there, they're gonna like,

1:13:57 probably skip, they're like, I don't know this song.

1:13:59 I'm gonna go find another song,

1:14:00 I'm gonna go find another song, I'm like, so.

1:14:02 I think that's partly why it didn't work.

1:14:04 Just nobody was willing to take a risk really,

1:14:07 which I don't blame them at all.

1:14:09 I mean, listen, God has orchestrated

1:14:11 exactly what is supposed to happen in my life.

1:14:13 I truly believe that.

1:14:14 And I don't think he wanted that song

1:14:16 to get any farther than it did, so.

1:14:20 But that, I mean, that's what happened.

1:14:21 But yeah, I continued on tour with Luke,

1:14:23 continued to grow a friendship.

1:14:25 I mean, not my closest friends.

1:14:26 - I mean, just about everyone,

1:14:27 our audience is gonna know Luke Holmes' and all that.

1:14:29 So like, the kind of the typical question,

1:14:32 'cause I'll get asked sometimes like,

1:14:34 hey, what's my Chandler like behind closed doors?

1:14:37 Like, what are the Robbersons like behind closed doors?

1:14:38 Like, what's Joby like for real?

1:14:40 And the thing is, is for the most part,

1:14:42 'cause I used to work for Major League Baseball,

1:14:44 so I was around a bunch of ball players,

1:14:45 a bunch of Hall Famers, a bunch of really famous people.

1:14:50 And almost all of them were rather incredible.

1:14:53 Like, with the exception of Brandon Phillips,

1:14:56 one of the worst human beings

1:14:57 I've ever been around in my entire life,

1:14:58 an awful, awful, terrible human being.

1:15:00 And I thought that coming in,

1:15:02 and he just confirmed it when I was around.

1:15:03 - Wow.

1:15:04 - Okay, so he was the, you were telling me Dwight Yolkam's,

1:15:06 you know, not the nicest guy in the world last night.

1:15:08 And so Brandon Phillips, terrible, terrible human being.

1:15:10 I hope he's repented it.

1:15:11 I hope he's like, found Christ and all that.

1:15:12 Otherwise, if not, I hope he, you know,

1:15:15 gets stuck in a ditch somewhere.

1:15:16 But like, I remember like Charlie Sheen came

1:15:19 to this studio where I was working at in 2012.

1:15:22 And this was like the height of like Tiger Blood time.

1:15:25 Like, you know, he's just got infamous

1:15:28 more than he is famous at this point.

1:15:29 I remember them telling us, all of us working there,

1:15:31 'cause we were like on-air personalities and all that.

1:15:33 They're like, look, no one can talk about Tiger Blood.

1:15:36 No one can talk about like drugs.

1:15:38 No one can talk about hookers, like nothing.

1:15:40 Like, and so by the time he's walking in,

1:15:42 we're all like kind of scared.

1:15:44 Like we can't talk, can't function.

1:15:46 He could not have been a nicer, more accommodating person.

1:15:50 So not only did he just know baseball.

1:15:52 And so when you're working for Major League Baseball

1:15:54 and you have people come in that clearly don't know baseball,

1:15:56 it's kind of like, okay, you're just here for the publicity.

1:15:58 But he just knew baseball.

1:15:59 He just sat down and watched baseball with us.

1:16:01 And he's just telling us about different things.

1:16:04 Huge baseball fan.

1:16:05 And one point I think it was the Angels.

1:16:07 He wanted a home run ball 'cause he had never caught a ball.

1:16:09 So he bought every ticket in left field bleachers.

1:16:12 Like, just hoping somebody would hit a home run.

1:16:15 He was the only guy out there and nobody hit a home run.

1:16:18 But like, I never even at one point,

1:16:20 someone comes up to him and like brings him a bottle of water

1:16:23 that he didn't ask for.

1:16:24 And he literally, he could have just grabbed it

1:16:26 and kept talking to whoever he was talking to.

1:16:27 He just, he stopped and he goes,

1:16:28 "Hey, thank you so much."

1:16:30 Like, that's so nice to consider.

1:16:31 What's your name?

1:16:32 - It's awesome.

1:16:33 - And like, he was just such a nice guy.

1:16:34 But like, then we hear these horror stories

1:16:36 of these people that seem really, really nice.

1:16:38 And every time you see them on TV or a social media,

1:16:40 they're really nice.

1:16:41 And then it's like, I'm everyone, Ellen.

1:16:42 Like everyone found out like Ellen DeGeneres

1:16:43 was this horrible, horrible, awful, terrible person.

1:16:46 And people were shocked because she's always nice

1:16:48 and jovial and fun, loving on television.

1:16:50 So it's like, all right, man, Lou Combs.

1:16:53 Like, what is he like, you know, when all the cameras are off?

1:16:55 - Dude, I mean, and I always feel like no one's gonna believe me

1:16:59 when I say this, but he is literally the nicest dude.

1:17:02 Like, he is, like he put out a record.

1:17:05 What you see is what you get.

1:17:06 It couldn't be more true.

1:17:07 Like, he is that person.

1:17:09 And he's not, but he, and he doesn't boast

1:17:12 about being a nice person.

1:17:13 Like, I've seen him do things behind closed doors

1:17:15 that like people would like put him on a pedestal for,

1:17:20 but he doesn't want, you know, praise for those things.

1:17:23 You know, like, he is just a very genuine, great dude.

1:17:27 He's been a great friend to me.

1:17:28 He's, you know, he's always been in my corner.

1:17:30 He's always believed in me and fought for me in situations.

1:17:34 And man, he truly is a great dude.

1:17:39 And, you know, I get that that's, you know,

1:17:43 he's my friend.

1:17:45 So yeah, he's great to me, but I've seen him

1:17:49 in every situation you could possibly see him.

1:17:50 And he's just a great dude.

1:17:52 And, you know, kind of to what you're saying,

1:17:54 I've asked him, like, 'cause he's been around

1:17:57 the who's who of everyone, you know, I mean,

1:17:59 he's set in every nice suite at the Super Bowl

1:18:03 that you could possibly, you know.

1:18:04 So I've asked him, like, hey, man, how is,

1:18:06 who is, how is this person?

1:18:08 And he won't tell you.

1:18:09 I'm like, what do you mean?

1:18:11 He's like, well, dude, well, they're all nice to me.

1:18:15 - Oh, but are they nice to the help?

1:18:16 - Exactly. - Are they nice

1:18:17 to the person that parks a car for him?

1:18:18 - 100% dude. - Yeah.

1:18:20 - And knowing that he thinks about people that way

1:18:23 can, to me, tell you how great of a person he is.

1:18:26 Because he won't even say so-and-so is a nice person.

1:18:30 He's like, because they're all nice to me, man.

1:18:32 Like they're all, but like, how are they treating the person

1:18:35 that just press the button on the elevator for him?

1:18:38 You know, like at the Super Bowl or whatever it is, you know?

1:18:40 And I have seen him literally like,

1:18:43 stop and shake the hands of people at the end, dude,

1:18:45 it would make their day.

1:18:46 Like the people building the stage at the stadiums or whatever.

1:18:50 He just, he is a very caring, genuine dude.

1:18:53 And there's no more I can say about it than that.

1:18:56 - So without, you know, violating confidence or whatever,

1:18:58 like give us an example of like,

1:19:01 while I was talking to you at dinner last night.

1:19:02 So back when Albert Pujols was still on the St. Louis Cardinals,

1:19:06 there would be after games.

1:19:09 And I think Bob Stoops here, you know,

1:19:10 when he coached for OU, he would do something similar to this.

1:19:12 So I might be mixing stories just a little bit.

1:19:15 But like after a game, and the games are get done, you know,

1:19:17 10 o'clock at night or, you know, whatever.

1:19:20 He would get cleaned up and he would go to a local

1:19:22 children's hospital without his manager,

1:19:25 without a PR team, nobody taking pictures.

1:19:28 And he would just go and talk to kids that were sick

1:19:31 and just sit with them and talk to their parents.

1:19:33 And you know, sign stuff, and he'd bring them stuff

1:19:36 and all that.

1:19:37 And then he would just, like he wasn't being whisked

1:19:39 in an unmarked SUV and whisked out like, you know,

1:19:43 some mega church pastors.

1:19:44 Like he was literally just going in there

1:19:46 and just serving these kids when there were no cameras around.

1:19:49 And so like, I kind of have like a dissonance with that

1:19:51 because it's like, okay, I saw this video the other day.

1:19:54 It's like, hey, do you know you can pray for homeless

1:19:56 people on the street without recording it

1:19:57 and putting it on TikTok?

1:19:59 But it's like, but then you do that

1:20:00 and you put it on TikTok and you remind people,

1:20:02 hey, you should be doing this.

1:20:03 And look at what the Lord did in this moment, aren't we?

1:20:05 So glad we have the encouragement of the video going around.

1:20:08 So I kind of like, I don't want to know the stories,

1:20:10 but I do want to know the stories.

1:20:11 But like, is there like a story that comes to mind

1:20:13 where, hey, Luke did this thing, no one knew about it,

1:20:15 but he just like kind of spoke to his character a little bit?

1:20:18 - Well, I mean, a few different things.

1:20:21 And let me say this, Luke's the people that are around Luke

1:20:24 also can tell you like how great of a duty is,

1:20:27 like the people that work for him,

1:20:28 because they are unbelievable as well.

1:20:30 Like so, and I say that to say, we were in Europe.

1:20:34 I toured with him in Europe back in 2023.

1:20:37 We were there for a month touring like 18 different cities

1:20:41 in Europe.

1:20:42 And there was a young kid who was a cancer patient

1:20:47 who unfortunately has passed away,

1:20:51 but they came to the show.

1:20:53 And dude, just like he literally,

1:20:56 what he interacts with like that,

1:20:59 he talks to him like they're the only person,

1:21:00 like he is just, he's a golden dude, man.

1:21:03 Like he truly is.

1:21:04 And another instance, I think this happened years ago,

1:21:08 like this is very early on.

1:21:11 I think he was still touring in a sprinter van

1:21:14 when this happened.

1:21:15 And I was with him.

1:21:16 It was like me, him and his band.

1:21:21 And we were in a sprinter van.

1:21:26 And he was crushing it, dude.

1:21:27 I mean, he was crushing it at the time.

1:21:30 And I believe we were in Oklahoma City.

1:21:32 And I watched him literally give a life-changing tip

1:21:35 to this girl at a restaurant.

1:21:37 And when I say life, I'm talking like...

1:21:40 - He don't have to get another.

1:21:41 - Could be life-changing. - Tell me on fair, yeah, yeah.

1:21:44 - And I saw him do it, dude.

1:21:45 And this girl broke down and he was just like,

1:21:48 she was like, can we take a picture?

1:21:52 And he was like, yeah, absolutely.

1:21:54 And just, but he didn't do it.

1:21:57 He didn't want me to know that he did that.

1:21:59 The only reason I knew that he did it

1:22:01 is 'cause she's like walked back up to the table

1:22:03 and she's crying and I'm like,

1:22:04 well, she's been happy this whole time

1:22:06 while she crying all of a sudden.

1:22:07 And then we leave and he's like,

1:22:09 I was like, bro, wow, you gotta tell me,

1:22:10 otherwise it's gonna drive me nuts.

1:22:12 And he told me, but he didn't want nobody to know that.

1:22:17 So he's just a good dude, man.

1:22:19 - And it kind of reminds me, I've heard a lot of stories

1:22:21 of Shaquille O'Neal, 'cause again,

1:22:23 like that was probably my favorite, you know,

1:22:26 that one of my favorite players

1:22:27 when I was watching the NBA, like growing up and stuff,

1:22:29 like I was just so dominant and just like a,

1:22:31 you know, like they were changing rules

1:22:32 and they had to like change the structure of the backboards

1:22:37 'cause he kept like bringing down an NBA game.

1:22:39 So it's just like insane.

1:22:40 But I've heard so many stories of him

1:22:43 just paying for all kinds of stuff, right?

1:22:46 Like just, but like not doing it in public,

1:22:49 but like literally going to Walmart,

1:22:51 'cause he's done some of this on on film,

1:22:52 like going to Walmart and just finding the single moms

1:22:55 in Walmart and being like, hey, let's walk around

1:22:57 and let's get your kid a bike, let's get some toys.

1:22:59 Like, hey, and then just giving us some cash here.

1:23:01 Here's for diapers and groceries and stuff like that.

1:23:04 And so it's good when you hear stories like that

1:23:06 'cause we don't really like the stories of people

1:23:08 who are really not doing those things.

1:23:09 But, you know, even for Luke,

1:23:12 'cause I tell people all the time,

1:23:14 I'm like, don't put your faith like in your favorite artist

1:23:17 or your favorite podcast or your favorite, you know,

1:23:19 pastor or whatever, 'cause you know,

1:23:20 they can always let you down.

1:23:21 And part of it is like, if the veil is taken off

1:23:24 and it's like, oh, this guy's a complete [inaudible],

1:23:26 like it'll kind of like crush you a little bit.

1:23:28 And like, I remember like, as a kid,

1:23:30 you find out kids, like guys aren't really, really nice

1:23:33 or even when you see guys that are like really mean to kids,

1:23:36 like they won't even stop and give a kid a handshake

1:23:38 or a picture and all, it's like, man,

1:23:39 that's like kid's whole life, he's seven.

1:23:41 Like stop and take a picture, you fricking jerk.

1:23:43 But like Luke Combs' music is important to me

1:23:49 if for nothing else because of the one album

1:23:51 that like you didn't help him with at all.

1:23:54 And so like, I've told you about and you've listened

1:23:56 to my episode where I talked about fathers and sons.

1:23:59 And like, okay, by the time he releases that record,

1:24:03 he's already a mega superstar, he's selling out arenas.

1:24:05 Like he's, you know, he's been, I think,

1:24:08 Entertainer of the Year a couple of times and all that.

1:24:11 And then he's just, okay, I'm gonna put out an album

1:24:15 of all like fatherhood type stuff.

1:24:18 And you can correct the record

1:24:19 'cause I just wanna kind of hear like the behind the scenes

1:24:22 of this album because I thought I'd heard the record label

1:24:26 or whoever the executives were like, okay,

1:24:28 we can do a song, a fatherhood song, like on your next album,

1:24:32 but we can't do like a whole concept album

1:24:34 of just father and son, you know, type stuff, manhood type stuff.

1:24:38 It's not gonna sell, it doesn't make any sense.

1:24:40 Like why would you do that?

1:24:41 Let's just kind of keep the gravy train moving with,

1:24:43 you know, rinse, repeat, you know, keep your sound,

1:24:45 like keep making records that people can sing along to.

1:24:48 So like when were you kind of made aware of this?

1:24:51 And I know you didn't work on it

1:24:52 'cause you were doing some of your own stuff,

1:24:53 but like what's your understanding,

1:24:56 kind of where the sound came from?

1:24:57 Because I mean, it's just had a huge impact.

1:24:58 - Yeah, from what I understand is that,

1:25:03 you know, he was in an album cycle of needing to,

1:25:09 you know, starting to put a record together.

1:25:12 And he was a new dad.

1:25:14 And so he was writing, you know, these kinds of songs.

1:25:18 And then people were, you know, people would send him,

1:25:20 you know, you know, half songs, like verse, chorus of an idea,

1:25:24 whatever.

1:25:25 And they were, everybody knew he was a dad.

1:25:29 So they would like try to, you know,

1:25:31 they would send him, you know, an idea of a dad song or whatever.

1:25:34 Well, then it turned into like,

1:25:35 well, I like this one and I like this one and I like this one.

1:25:38 And it's like, well, this album cycle,

1:25:40 it probably don't need to do it like.

1:25:42 - Yeah, you can't put like three dads on there.

1:25:44 - It's either I can only do like maybe one or two on this record,

1:25:47 which I think would have been growing up or getting old.

1:25:54 They did like growing up getting old

1:25:56 and it was like the getting old part, right?

1:25:58 I think, I can't remember exactly.

1:25:59 But anyway, so maybe I could do one or two on there

1:26:02 or I could just take all the ones I love

1:26:05 and go make an actual Father's Day release

1:26:09 of a Father's son's record.

1:26:10 That's how I understood it all happened.

1:26:12 But yeah, I didn't have a song on there.

1:26:15 I was kind of busy doing radio tour on on.

1:26:17 And also, I'm not a dad to I'm a girl dad.

1:26:21 So, but man, that record is unbelievable.

1:26:25 - Like I can literally remember it was,

1:26:28 I was like scrolling TikTok or whatever, like, you know,

1:26:30 looking for content to repurpose on our stuff.

1:26:34 And the, so it was hunting by myself.

1:26:39 It was some, some hunter had like posted this video

1:26:42 with those in the background and like,

1:26:43 I had never heard of it.

1:26:44 I obviously, okay, that's Luke Holmes's voice and all that.

1:26:46 And then I think Luke said, hey,

1:26:48 should I release a whole album of stuff like this?

1:26:50 And I remember sitting there and I think at the time,

1:26:52 my boys were probably three and one, maybe like a three

1:26:57 and nine months old, something like that.

1:26:59 And I remember the hunt by yourself again.

1:27:00 And I've told everyone on my own, it's a million times,

1:27:02 I didn't grow up hunting.

1:27:03 I wish that I had grown up hunting by like,

1:27:05 my dad didn't hunt, his dad didn't hunt.

1:27:07 Like I was playing baseball and I was trying

1:27:09 to get straight A's and so there was a whole lot of time

1:27:11 to go sit in a deer stand.

1:27:12 I didn't have anyone to take me, right?

1:27:13 And so in like, I don't, I don't fault my dad for that.

1:27:16 It's like, oh, my dad didn't teach me astrophysics.

1:27:18 Like he wasn't astrophysicists.

1:27:19 So you don't hold that against somebody.

1:27:21 So it just kind of is what it is.

1:27:23 But hunting is important to me being able to look for

1:27:26 and provide provision through meat for your family,

1:27:28 for other families.

1:27:29 And so I'm learning and I'm making like rookie mistakes

1:27:32 in my thirties, you know, when it comes to hunting,

1:27:34 so that my boys can just grow up having always hunted.

1:27:38 So that can get that skillset can be passed down.

1:27:40 And I remember when it hit the course of that

1:27:43 and where dude, I'm like getting upset,

1:27:46 even just thinking about it.

1:27:47 Cause I just like, I broke down crying at the thought of like,

1:27:50 oh my gosh, if I do this right,

1:27:53 eventually I'll be hunting by myself again.

1:27:55 I was just like, oh, and then I like send it to Joe B

1:27:58 cause like his son JP was about to graduate high school

1:28:00 and like, you know, you know, he probably blubbered.

1:28:02 He would never admit it,

1:28:03 but he probably blubbered on his backyard

1:28:04 while I sit there watching the birds

1:28:05 or whatever he does with his spare time.

1:28:07 But then when the whole album came out,

1:28:10 like I remember distinctly just about every single song,

1:28:15 like it was like Mike Tyson one, two like uppercut

1:28:18 punching me right to the fields.

1:28:21 And it was like, I was like, is this because

1:28:23 these are just that impactful?

1:28:25 Is it because I'm a boy dad now?

1:28:26 Is this having the same impact on somebody else?

1:28:29 But like the ripple effect for me,

1:28:31 I talked about it on the show, other dads

1:28:33 that maybe weren't country music guys,

1:28:35 maybe we're Luke Holmes guys or all that,

1:28:37 and I said, that's one of the most important records

1:28:41 like for fathers, like, and I forget all the grandiose

1:28:44 things I said about it,

1:28:45 but like the ripple effect and the impact of that

1:28:47 has been substantial for a lot of people.

1:28:50 - It is.

1:28:51 I mean, and I too related to that record.

1:28:52 I mean, I have a dad who, you are a son.

1:28:55 - I am a son, you know, and I have a brother

1:28:57 and I had a great dad, you know, my dad is awesome.

1:29:00 He grew up taking us hunting.

1:29:02 And so like I did relate to it.

1:29:03 It's just, I related to it from a different place

1:29:06 than you would 'cause you're our dad, two sons, you know.

1:29:09 But yeah, man, that record was so good.

1:29:13 - And you can just find yourself

1:29:14 and all kinds of things on that record and then, okay.

1:29:16 And then he got kind of back to the normal schedule thing.

1:29:19 But one of the things that you and I talked about a lot

1:29:23 is so you're a believer, you know, your first,

1:29:26 you cut your teeth, you know, doing gospel music

1:29:28 and all that and you kind of always been a Christian

1:29:31 and we can talk, well, yeah, let's talk country music

1:29:33 and theology because, you know, for all intents, purposes,

1:29:38 Luke Combs is one of your best buddies, not a believer.

1:29:42 - Yeah.

1:29:43 - And I told you whenever, 'cause, you know,

1:29:46 people that have just found me in the last year,

1:29:48 you're in half, they don't know this,

1:29:49 but I almost ended my career

1:29:51 'cause I had two vocal cord surgeries

1:29:53 within a couple of months

1:29:54 'cause the first one was unsuccessful,

1:29:56 had a class vocal cord,

1:29:57 have had a class vocal cord for God knows how long

1:29:59 and who knows how it happened.

1:30:01 First surgery was not successful.

1:30:02 I could not speak above a whisper and I was fully healed.

1:30:05 So they had to go back in there and, you know,

1:30:07 take out the implant, put it into implant.

1:30:09 They woke me up in the middle of surgery

1:30:10 to try to make me talk while I'm my next wide open

1:30:13 so they can, you know, it's a whole nine yards.

1:30:15 And so my first recording back

1:30:18 after I had kind of gotten my voice back

1:30:21 and I'm on the, you know, the upswing with my recovery

1:30:23 and rehab and all that was country music theology.

1:30:27 So that's such an important thing to me

1:30:29 because that idea was stuck in my brain for months.

1:30:33 So I'm sitting in a chair, a recliner.

1:30:36 That's where I would have to sleep

1:30:37 with a giant gash on my neck,

1:30:39 trying to make sure I don't sneeze so that, you know,

1:30:41 that the stitches don't pop and like, you know,

1:30:43 you can't really hug your kids or, you know,

1:30:45 do all that 'cause you're just scared of getting your neck,

1:30:47 you know, bopped or whatever.

1:30:48 And for me, my show is kind of cathartic, right?

1:30:53 'Cause I need to think through my philosophies,

1:30:55 think through my opinions and then I need to write it

1:30:57 and then I need to, you know, record it

1:31:00 and then I need to put it out.

1:31:01 And then once it's out there into the world,

1:31:03 it's out there now and then I feel like I can move on.

1:31:05 I just couldn't move on from this concept

1:31:06 and for anyone that has not listened to the episode,

1:31:08 I would encourage you to go back to it.

1:31:09 But ultimately it was when you're doing ministry

1:31:13 in the south, right?

1:31:14 So if you're in Oklahoma or Georgia or Texas

1:31:16 or Tennessee or whatever, a lot of people think

1:31:19 they're Christians because they're Grandmama,

1:31:22 always went to church because they got baptized

1:31:24 when they were a kid, because they believe in God,

1:31:27 because, you know, they, when they vote,

1:31:30 they vote Republican and they listen to 90s country music,

1:31:32 which is the best version of country music.

1:31:35 And they think that's what saves them

1:31:36 'cause God likes all those things.

1:31:38 And it's like, well, then we start talking to the person.

1:31:41 It's like, well, you know, God doesn't save last names.

1:31:44 He saves first names.

1:31:45 God doesn't have grandchildren, right?

1:31:47 He has children.

1:31:49 And it's like, no, no, no, getting dunked in water

1:31:52 doesn't mean anything.

1:31:53 That is after you have postuode, Joby,

1:31:57 after you have put your faith in,

1:31:58 transferred your faith into the, you know,

1:32:02 the sin debt that was paid for on the cross.

1:32:04 Baptism is the first public expression

1:32:08 of an internal reality.

1:32:09 - For sure.

1:32:10 - Okay, so getting dunked is just getting dunked,

1:32:12 but baptism should be a public expression.

1:32:14 And so you're trying to figure out

1:32:18 like your own country music theology, like, oh, you know,

1:32:21 you just raised, you know, do more good things

1:32:23 than you do bad things and God will let you in the club,

1:32:25 but it's like that's not biblical, that's not Christianity.

1:32:29 That's country music theology.

1:32:31 But then here you are interacting with a lot of guys

1:32:33 that may think, hey, I'm a good guy.

1:32:34 I leave life changing tips, you know,

1:32:37 I'm nice to the help and all that.

1:32:39 So like, how does that all kind of mix into y'all's relationship

1:32:43 and kind of how you approach things?

1:32:45 Because again, the depravity in the country music world

1:32:49 is just like the depravity in the hip hop world.

1:32:51 It just sounds different and looks different.

1:32:53 Like I remember going to a PBR event

1:32:55 and the amount of like scuzzy looking hooker girls,

1:32:58 it's the same thing if you were to go to a hip hop show,

1:33:00 but it's just, it's wrapped in the American flag

1:33:03 and George Strait and it's so it's like somehow acceptable.

1:33:06 You know what I'm saying?

1:33:07 - Yeah, for sure.

1:33:07 Yeah, man, oh, where to start.

1:33:11 So, you know, again, I've been a believer

1:33:17 for, you know, most of my life.

1:33:19 I very early on, you know,

1:33:24 I was kind of scared into salvation a little bit, I think,

1:33:28 partly.

1:33:29 - Same.

1:33:30 I got a Hellfire and Brimstone Pre-Johnna Sunday afternoon.

1:33:32 - Exactly.

1:33:33 - Hell sounds awful, I don't want to go there.

1:33:36 So yes, that kind of thing, you know, and I did believe,

1:33:41 I believed the story.

1:33:47 I believed all the things, you know what I mean?

1:33:49 And to this day, but the put your faith in part was like,

1:33:53 I didn't realize that I hadn't done that.

1:33:55 I thought I had, right?

1:33:56 So I want to back up a little bit.

1:34:00 So I had wrote some songs with Luke

1:34:04 and they turned in to hits.

1:34:09 One of those songs in particular was a song called "Doing This"

1:34:14 and it got nominated for a Grammy

1:34:16 for Best Country Song of the Year, whatever.

1:34:20 So, which I thought was awesome.

1:34:23 I mean, it's a great thing.

1:34:25 And so, but I kept like, I would kind of,

1:34:30 what's the word I'm looking for?

1:34:33 I would try to be like false humility, right?

1:34:36 Like of like, kind of like, oh, it ain't nothing,

1:34:40 but hey, you got nominated for Grammy, you know?

1:34:43 Yeah, right, so, and I kept like,

1:34:46 I would be playing songwriter rounds

1:34:47 and I'd be doing this and I just,

1:34:49 it kept being like me, me, me, look what I did,

1:34:51 look what I did, kind of stuff, right?

1:34:53 And dude, the Lord got ahold of me.

1:34:54 This is probably, probably two years ago at this point.

1:34:58 And I just felt the Lord say,

1:35:02 bro, you haven't done anything.

1:35:05 Like you, yeah, you wrote this song,

1:35:07 but you haven't done anything.

1:35:08 And not once have you think to me

1:35:10 for what the song did, you know?

1:35:12 And dude, it was in that moment where I was like,

1:35:14 okay, I'm sorry, Lord, sorry.

1:35:18 And the Lord just began to work on me

1:35:20 and I realized that that song wasn't written just for Luke.

1:35:23 That song was also written for me.

1:35:25 That song tells Luke's story of like how,

1:35:28 if he wasn't playing music, you know,

1:35:30 the whole thing is like, if I wasn't doing this,

1:35:31 I'd still be doing this.

1:35:32 It just might look different, right?

1:35:34 Like, and so I realized that I wouldn't even be able

1:35:39 to do this if it hadn't been for the gifts

1:35:41 that God gave me when I was born, right?

1:35:44 So he gave me the gift of writing songs.

1:35:46 He gave me the gift of singing.

1:35:48 He gave me the gift of music, you know?

1:35:51 And here I was, I wasn't thanking him.

1:35:52 So I wouldn't even be able to do this.

1:35:54 So the reason that I do this should be to glorify God

1:35:58 in what I'm doing, right?

1:36:00 And so he began to get my attention with that.

1:36:03 Probably two years ago, I picked up and started reading

1:36:07 if the tomb is empty, you know?

1:36:09 This was all about the same time.

1:36:11 And it wasn't like, I really wasn't searching for the Lord.

1:36:15 I knew the Lord.

1:36:16 And I'm getting to country music, like I had country music,

1:36:19 theology, I don't, like I have the Lord.

1:36:22 It wasn't, I wasn't a believer and I need to be saved.

1:36:26 It was just like, man, I'm not, I'm not doing what I'm supposed

1:36:30 to do on this earth, which is glorify God.

1:36:32 Like I'm not, he's given me these gifts and these talents.

1:36:36 And I'm not using them to like glorify him, right?

1:36:39 So he uses a song I wrote doing this to get my attention

1:36:44 for all those things.

1:36:45 And so time goes on.

1:36:47 And I began to like fill the Lord like nudging me

1:36:54 for whatever reason.

1:36:55 He's just like every, just the Holy Spirit just kept,

1:36:58 you know, convicting me, but I didn't know

1:37:00 what it was convicting me of, like what is going on?

1:37:02 And I just kept ignoring it, ignoring it.

1:37:05 And so this was in the middle of the process

1:37:11 about a year and a half ago now,

1:37:14 starting to start the process of recording

1:37:16 my first full-length project under my record deal

1:37:20 at Warner Music Nashville.

1:37:21 And I felt like God like trying to get my attention,

1:37:24 didn't really nobody was trying to get my attention for,

1:37:26 but I'm like, not right now, God.

1:37:29 Everything I have worked for is happening.

1:37:31 I'm finally doing a full-length project.

1:37:33 The record label is going to send another song

1:37:35 back to country radio.

1:37:36 Finally, after four years, I'm not having one.

1:37:38 Like this is what, this is what we planned on God.

1:37:41 Like this is what we wanted.

1:37:42 Like, you know, that it's finally happening,

1:37:45 like not right now.

1:37:46 And so I just kept ignoring it.

1:37:51 And then finally I, about a year ago now,

1:37:56 or about the same time I started meeting

1:38:03 with the men's pastor at my church on a weekly basis.

1:38:06 And then I had read Joby's book.

1:38:09 He had found out that I was a fan of his book.

1:38:12 I was coming to Jacksonville for,

1:38:14 I was on the Luke Holmes Stadium tour in 2024.

1:38:20 And we were playing the stadium in Jacksonville there.

1:38:22 And Joby found out I was coming.

1:38:24 I was on that tour.

1:38:26 Took me golf and came to the show the next week.

1:38:30 Joby's like, hey, man, I would love to mentor you,

1:38:33 disciple you, whatever you need, you know?

1:38:35 So I started having these men come into my life

1:38:37 and I'm like, okay, this is weird.

1:38:40 And now I look at, I'm like, God, man, God was,

1:38:42 he was literally preparing me.

1:38:44 He was preparing me.

1:38:45 He was, and you said this last night,

1:38:46 he started to use people to put kindling around me, right?

1:38:50 And so, and I knew the Lord was trying to get my attention.

1:38:54 I just didn't know what for or why.

1:38:56 And so he's putting all these people around me.

1:38:58 I'm starting to grow in the Lord.

1:39:01 Like I'm starting to really read my Bible

1:39:04 and understand what it's saying.

1:39:05 I'm like consuming Joby's messages.

1:39:08 I'm consuming undaunted life.

1:39:09 I start finding things like I want what I'm desiring something.

1:39:14 What am I desiring?

1:39:15 'Cause here I am playing these stadium shows.

1:39:17 I play 30 minutes.

1:39:18 I have the time of my life.

1:39:19 I mean, awesome, dude.

1:39:20 I mean, thousands of people are like singing along, whatever.

1:39:25 And then I get off stage and I'm like,

1:39:26 I want to be home right now.

1:39:28 Yeah. I want to be home right now.

1:39:29 Why am I, why do I, why I'm enjoying this, but I'm not.

1:39:34 Like why?

1:39:35 And so time goes on.

1:39:40 I just keep ignoring God.

1:39:41 And then finally December of 2024, I met my church.

1:39:44 And I don't even know why.

1:39:47 Like I don't know why.

1:39:49 I don't remember exactly what the preacher preached on that

1:39:52 morning, but I just remembered at the end of that sermon.

1:39:55 I'm like, okay, God, I'm sorry.

1:40:01 I've been stubborn, I've been ignorant.

1:40:05 You've been trying to get my attention for what feels like

1:40:08 probably a year and a half at this point.

1:40:10 And I just pushed you away.

1:40:14 You know, it's not what I wanted.

1:40:16 I'm scared of what it is you're trying to tell me to do.

1:40:18 Like this is my career.

1:40:20 Like I feel like you're trying to,

1:40:22 I don't know what it is, God.

1:40:23 I don't know.

1:40:24 I was like, hey, why are you trying to derail this?

1:40:25 Yes, exactly.

1:40:26 That's what I felt.

1:40:27 I'm like, I'm scared.

1:40:28 Why are you trying to derail what you gave me?

1:40:29 Exactly, exactly.

1:40:30 And so, because I thought that I was doing what you wanted me

1:40:33 to do, God, you know?

1:40:34 And so, I'm like, God, okay, here's the deal.

1:40:39 I'm stubborn, ignorant, here's the deal, God.

1:40:43 I need you to tell me what you're trying to tell me,

1:40:45 but I need you to do it in a way that leaves no doubt

1:40:48 that I can't deny what you're telling me.

1:40:50 I need it to be so clear that you're saying,

1:40:52 hey, this is what I'm trying to tell you.

1:40:55 I need you to tell me that way because again,

1:40:57 I'm stubborn, I'm ignorant, I'm a big dummy.

1:41:00 Like, tell me, that was it.

1:41:03 They was over, prayed that prayer.

1:41:06 Dude, I didn't think any more about it.

1:41:07 I didn't think, you know, I mean, obviously I still felt

1:41:10 like the Lord was trying to get me my attention,

1:41:13 but like, I just prayed that prayer and I was like,

1:41:15 it didn't feel like a burn the ships moment in the moment.

1:41:17 No, no, not at all, not at all.

1:41:20 I was just like, well, if either he's gonna reveal it

1:41:22 or he's not, you know, kind of thought.

1:41:24 So I go about my week, five days later, Friday rolls around.

1:41:28 Me and my wife are out of Christmas shopping.

1:41:31 My manager of 10 years, who also manages Luke Combs.

1:41:35 He's me and Luke are like the first two people

1:41:37 he started managing when we moved to Nashville 10 years ago.

1:41:42 He calls me and I've got him on the speaker phone

1:41:48 and I have no idea what, I have no idea what he's calling me for.

1:41:53 Like, no idea in the world.

1:41:56 And he just starts going, hey, man,

1:41:58 I know this country music thing is your dream

1:42:02 and like, it's what you moved to Nashville, to Chase.

1:42:05 I know that you love it so much.

1:42:08 And he just keeps going on like that and I'm like,

1:42:12 Kathy, what are you, just get it out, dude.

1:42:15 Like, what are you trying to tell me?

1:42:17 And he goes, man, I don't know how to tell you this,

1:42:21 but for the last week, and let me preface this,

1:42:23 Kathy is an unbeliever.

1:42:24 And me and him, I've had conversations,

1:42:28 he has no problem with me talking about this.

1:42:30 He's an unbeliever.

1:42:32 He is on a journey with the Lord right now,

1:42:34 with God right now, he's figuring it all out.

1:42:38 - Okay. - Okay.

1:42:39 But when he calls me, he's an unbeliever.

1:42:42 I mean, he's lost.

1:42:43 - And he's calling me out of the blue.

1:42:44 - He calls me out of the blue.

1:42:45 He goes, man, I don't know how to tell you this,

1:42:48 but for the last week,

1:42:52 I've been waking up in the middle of the night

1:42:54 around three o'clock in the morning

1:42:55 and I cannot get you off my mind.

1:42:57 Like, and I don't know, I didn't know what it was.

1:43:01 I said, he said, but there's this,

1:43:03 and I've been scared to tell you this,

1:43:04 and he keeps beating around the bush.

1:43:06 I'm like, Kathy, just tell me, dude, what did tell me?

1:43:09 And he goes, man, I don't know how to tell you this,

1:43:11 but there's this voice that,

1:43:13 when I wake up in the middle of night three o'clock,

1:43:14 there's something, there's a voice,

1:43:16 there's something telling me,

1:43:17 I'm supposed to tell you,

1:43:18 you're supposed to sing songs about Jesus.

1:43:21 You're supposed to be a Christian artist.

1:43:23 And I'm like, I go, what?

1:43:25 Well, he thinks that my reaction of what is like,

1:43:28 negative, I'm [inaudible], you know?

1:43:31 And so he starts like walking about, he's like, well,

1:43:34 you know, I just didn't, you know,

1:43:38 and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, Kathy,

1:43:40 listen, bro, five days ago,

1:43:42 Sunday morning, I prayed that God would send

1:43:45 the most undeniable sign

1:43:48 that I'm supposed to do something different,

1:43:50 and I need to know exactly what it is I'm supposed to do.

1:43:52 And I said, bro, he's used you,

1:43:57 he's woken you up in the middle,

1:43:59 he's been waking you up in the middle of the night

1:44:01 to deliver this to me.

1:44:02 Like this, this is, I'm not offended, bro,

1:44:05 this is, I asked for this.

1:44:07 And he goes, what do you mean you prayed for it?

1:44:09 I'm like, dude, Sunday morning at church,

1:44:11 I prayed that God would send,

1:44:12 I felt like God was trying to tell me

1:44:14 I'm supposed to do something different.

1:44:15 I asked him to send me the most clear sign

1:44:19 that I would not be able to deny it.

1:44:22 I said, he's been, an unbeliever,

1:44:23 he's been waking up in the middle of the night

1:44:25 to tell me to sing songs about Jesus.

1:44:27 Like what, that, it can't,

1:44:28 don't get no more undeniable than that.

1:44:31 And he goes, when did you pray that?

1:44:33 I said, Sunday morning, he said,

1:44:34 that's weird Sunday nights when I started

1:44:35 waking up in the middle of the night.

1:44:36 - Bro, come on.

1:44:38 - And I'm like, oh my gosh.

1:44:39 And dude, it was just the most real,

1:44:42 like the most real experience of the Holy Spirit

1:44:45 of like God going, ha, I got you, pal, I got you.

1:44:48 Like don't, don't be scared, you know.

1:44:52 And so I, Joby Martin was the first person I called.

1:44:55 He's like, hey, I'm going through security

1:44:58 at the airport or something.

1:45:00 Can I call you right back?

1:45:00 Yeah, sure.

1:45:02 Joby calls me back.

1:45:03 I tell him exactly everything I just told you.

1:45:05 And he goes, have you listened to my message

1:45:08 from last night?

1:45:09 And I go, no.

1:45:10 And so this is Friday, his Thursday night message,

1:45:14 this particular week was a message called

1:45:15 why do we doubt or why do you doubt or something like that?

1:45:18 And he's basically talking about Peter is in the boat

1:45:21 and he's looking at the Lord and the Lord's like,

1:45:24 come on, Peter, you know, and the minute Peter doubts,

1:45:27 he falls in the water, right?

1:45:29 So, but Joby's like, but Peter got out of the boat.

1:45:33 And in his message, he's going,

1:45:35 there's some of you out there.

1:45:37 There's some of you that are sitting in the boat.

1:45:39 - Yep.

1:45:40 - You're scared to get out of the boat

1:45:41 'cause you're scared of what God has for you

1:45:42 and you're sitting there and you won't even get out of the boat.

1:45:45 You won't even get out.

1:45:47 You need to get out of the boat.

1:45:48 That's his message, dude.

1:45:49 And I'm literally watching this

1:45:51 after everything that has just happened this morning

1:45:53 on this Friday morning, December 6th.

1:45:56 And now I'm watching Joby say,

1:45:57 you just, the Lord wants you to get out of the boat

1:45:59 and I'm like, oh my goodness, Lord, I see you.

1:46:02 Like I see you.

1:46:04 And then two days later, I'm at my church and I go to

1:46:08 Long Hollow Church and right outside Nashville

1:46:12 and my pastor there, Robbie Gallady, he's preaching

1:46:14 and he's preaching on the parable of the talents

1:46:17 and how we're gonna, we store up treasures in heaven.

1:46:20 If like using art, using what the Lord's given us

1:46:24 for his glory, right?

1:46:26 And I'm like, oh, it was a dude.

1:46:28 It was literally just the Lord just kept.

1:46:31 I'm like, okay, God, when I pray that you would make it

1:46:34 undeniable, I see it.

1:46:36 You have like sending my unbelieving manager,

1:46:40 waking him up in the moonlight to call me and tell me this.

1:46:42 Like that was, I believe that.

1:46:44 And now you sent me a message from Joby

1:46:47 and now my pastor's preaching this.

1:46:49 And dude, it literally kept going.

1:46:50 It was one thing after another.

1:46:51 - No, not subtle.

1:46:52 - No, it was like, the Lord would like punch me

1:46:55 and then he'd right hook me and then he left hook me

1:46:57 and he's like, don't you see me, you big dummy?

1:46:59 You know, that's what I felt.

1:47:00 And I'm like, Lord, I see you, I see you.

1:47:03 And dude, so as of this, as of sitting right here,

1:47:08 I am, as an artist, I have asked out of my record deal.

1:47:18 And I don't know what the Lord has for me.

1:47:20 I think, you know, my plan is to continue writing country songs

1:47:24 for anybody.

1:47:24 If there's someone that, if I write a country song

1:47:26 and someone believes in it, wants to record it.

1:47:29 I don't believe the Lord has asked me to stop that.

1:47:32 But on the artist side of things,

1:47:34 I'm gonna be putting out music.

1:47:36 And hopefully, honestly, by the time this comes out,

1:47:38 I hope that I may have some music out.

1:47:39 So, but it's gonna be music that it literally,

1:47:46 it's the gospel, dude.

1:47:46 It's country, it's gonna sound country like country music,

1:47:50 like modern country music,

1:47:51 but it's going to have the gospel in it.

1:47:53 I think that's what the Lord has literally

1:47:57 specifically asked me to do.

1:47:58 - Dude, the story is just like,

1:48:03 so it's still powerful hearing it from you the first time,

1:48:05 but Joby and I were driving out to encounter,

1:48:08 that's like the hunting encounter they do

1:48:10 for Church 11, 22ers every, you know,

1:48:12 November or December or whatever.

1:48:14 So we're driving to Wherever'sville, Georgia.

1:48:17 And he tells me the story, and you and I hadn't met yet,

1:48:20 I don't even think you and I had ever talked yet.

1:48:21 And he kind of told me the story and I'm like,

1:48:23 "Wait, what?"

1:48:25 Like, it's non-believing manager called,

1:48:26 like that's not a, like that's not a nudge.

1:48:31 That's like a shove from the Lord,

1:48:33 where it's like, because of where the message came from.

1:48:36 - And that's a lot of people have gone,

1:48:38 well, why can't you just keep your record deal

1:48:40 and just keep doing like, like, there's nothing wrong

1:48:44 with what you're doing?

1:48:45 No, I didn't say there was, there wasn't,

1:48:47 if you go listen to, I mean, I put out my last full length

1:48:50 project, the one I was talking about,

1:48:52 is a record called Camouflage Cowboy.

1:48:54 There are very faith, some faith-based songs in there.

1:49:00 You know, I ended the record with an old gospel hymn.

1:49:04 I don't think there was anything wrong

1:49:06 with what I was doing.

1:49:07 - Yeah, and why can't I continue to do that?

1:49:11 - Well, I could.

1:49:13 That's not what God has asked me to do.

1:49:15 He didn't say, "Hey, bro, keep singing your faith-based."

1:49:18 Why would he have gotten the attention of me

1:49:21 through my unbelieving manager if what I was doing was okay?

1:49:24 Like, why, my manager's like, you're so,

1:49:27 he was like, this thing's telling me you're supposed

1:49:29 to be a Christian artist and sing songs about Jesus.

1:49:32 Well, I was, what I was doing was kind of that,

1:49:36 but obviously that wasn't, the Lord didn't,

1:49:38 he wants me to do something more specific.

1:49:40 - Like, he's the one you'd be on,

1:49:41 country music theology, you know what I mean?

1:49:43 - Exactly, and so, dude, it's, I know I kind of got

1:49:48 into this whole story, but on the country music theology,

1:49:52 but for so long, I was, I was that country music theology

1:49:56 guy, I was like, well, I'm a Christian.

1:49:58 You know, and I sang about it in my songs, like, you know,

1:50:03 but man, I had not really postuode, I guess, in a sense, you know?

1:50:08 - Well, and you and I talked about last night

1:50:10 about the process of sanctification, like, okay,

1:50:13 'cause there are people that are like,

1:50:14 oh, I thought I was saved as a kid, but then, you know,

1:50:16 I fell away, but I'm really safe now.

1:50:19 It's like, your moment of salvation could have been

1:50:22 when you were a child, and you made the wrong decisions

1:50:27 and you distance yourself from God and distance yourself

1:50:31 and stop listening to the Holy Spirit.

1:50:33 And then something got your attention and got you

1:50:35 to come back around on the back end.

1:50:37 And so, that is a description of your sanctification,

1:50:39 not your salvation. - Exactly.

1:50:41 - And so it's like, but you just had some delayed

1:50:43 sanctification going on. - And people get confused

1:50:45 and I'm here to encourage anyone that's listening

1:50:47 to this right now that, like, hey, like, it's okay, right?

1:50:52 'Cause I think for a lot of, you know, also to the growing

1:50:57 up in the South, I mean, there's a lot of legalistic stuff,

1:51:01 like, don't drink, don't you and don't go to girls who do.

1:51:05 - Yep. - And so.

1:51:07 - And if you're Baptist, never ever dance.

1:51:08 - Right, it's like so, I think a lot of that was like,

1:51:13 in my head too, you know, like, oh, maybe, I, you know,

1:51:18 I've drank, like, you know, like, is that bad?

1:51:24 Like, so, so I felt like, honestly, obviously

1:51:29 in country music, I mean, everybody's drinking.

1:51:33 So like, I felt in those moments that when I was drinking,

1:51:36 because of kind of the background that I had in the church

1:51:40 as a child, that like, well, I can't be a great Christian,

1:51:45 or I can't be a Christian and do these things,

1:51:47 but when I do them, I don't feel like I'm doing anything wrong.

1:51:51 Like, I'm not getting like drunk, you know what?

1:51:54 So that was kind of, until I realized, okay, hold on.

1:51:59 And then I read Joby's book,

1:52:01 run over by the grace train, and I'm like, hold on.

1:52:04 This version of grace is way different than anything I,

1:52:07 even, and so I do believe that when I was a child,

1:52:10 I understood Jesus died on a cross for me.

1:52:13 Why?

1:52:15 You know, and like, somehow it counted for me.

1:52:21 Like, I don't know how I counted, but somehow it did.

1:52:23 Like, he did die, and he did go in a grave,

1:52:26 and he was resurrected, and I believe

1:52:29 that as a child.

1:52:29 So I do believe that I was saved as a child.

1:52:32 But again, the sanctification process of my life

1:52:36 was country music theology, you know?

1:52:38 - Yeah, do nice things, like listen to nice music,

1:52:41 wrap yourself in an American flag, and it'll all be okay.

1:52:44 And I think that's the difference whenever we discuss,

1:52:47 like again, Joby teaching people about push duo,

1:52:50 because we talked about Jordan Peterson last night.

1:52:52 This is a man, very, very smart man,

1:52:55 a man that I'm a huge fan of for a lot of different reasons.

1:52:57 - Correct.

1:52:58 - On record now, as saying that he believes

1:53:01 that Jesus was resurrected from the grave.

1:53:04 He is on record saying that Jesus is God.

1:53:07 And it's interesting, it was two atheist podcasters

1:53:09 that got him to admit those two things.

1:53:11 It wasn't, you know, some Christian country artists

1:53:13 trying to like put him in a corner.

1:53:14 - Yeah.

1:53:15 - But there's also no evidence that Jordan Peterson

1:53:21 believes that that counted for Jordan Peterson.

1:53:24 And that's what push duo is.

1:53:25 You're transferring your faith into that reality.

1:53:27 - Right, it's not believe that, it's believe in.

1:53:29 - Right, and so, and maybe you can help,

1:53:32 because I think somebody listening to this needs

1:53:34 to hear this, because this helped me.

1:53:36 Do you know, what's the analogy of the chair?

1:53:39 I think Joby's used it before.

1:53:41 - Okay, yeah, so explain that.

1:53:42 - Yeah, I use this all the time.

1:53:43 And I think I used some version of this

1:53:45 before Joby explained it.

1:53:46 He, you know, I explained it way better than him,

1:53:48 'cause he's kind of an idiot.

1:53:49 That Joby Martin guy, like I wish he could know

1:53:51 how words worked, but okay.

1:53:52 So when you walked in the studio this morning, right?

1:53:56 - Yeah.

1:53:57 - You looked at the table and you saw,

1:53:59 you recognized on your side of the table

1:54:01 that that was a chair.

1:54:02 - Correct.

1:54:04 - And you recognize that as a chair,

1:54:06 because you have an evidentiary basis that that's a chair.

1:54:10 Why?

1:54:11 It looks like a chair.

1:54:12 It's got the elements of a chair.

1:54:13 It's got legs.

1:54:14 It's got a seat.

1:54:15 It's got a back on it.

1:54:17 And you've got experience with chairs,

1:54:19 'cause you've seen a lot of chairs that look vaguely,

1:54:22 at least like what that chair looks like.

1:54:25 But in that moment,

1:54:27 knowledge of what a chair is,

1:54:30 and knowledge of, I believe that that's a chair,

1:54:34 you have yet to provide faith in the fact that it is a chair

1:54:38 because you have not transferred your weight of your body

1:54:42 into the chair and you have not transferred the fact

1:54:45 that I believe it's going to uphold my body

1:54:48 when I sit there, right?

1:54:50 That's the line.

1:54:51 So that's where people that I know and love,

1:54:53 people that are listening to this right now,

1:54:55 and you know exactly who I'm talking about.

1:54:58 They believe in God.

1:54:59 They were baptized when they were a kid,

1:55:02 and that's good enough.

1:55:03 Don't say another word.

1:55:04 I don't want to hear anything else.

1:55:06 Well, you know, but hey, but Jesus,

1:55:09 and the demons even believe,

1:55:10 and they shut her at the thought.

1:55:13 But hey, you know what?

1:55:14 You get to have your opinions and I get to have mine.

1:55:16 You are entitled to your own opinions.

1:55:17 You are not entitled to your own facts, okay?

1:55:20 And so you can look at that and say,

1:55:23 I believe that's a chair.

1:55:24 I know that's a chair.

1:55:26 You put me in the corner and I say,

1:55:27 yeah, I believe that's a chair,

1:55:29 but have you placed your faith in the chair, right?

1:55:33 'Cause guess what?

1:55:34 You didn't make the chair, you didn't put the chair there.

1:55:36 The only thing you bring to the chair is your faith

1:55:39 that it is that and sitting down onto it

1:55:42 and allowing that to uphold you.

1:55:43 That is the gospel when Jesus died on the cross

1:55:47 at Calvary, Uncle Gatha, right?

1:55:49 Whole long story about that, which I absolutely love, right?

1:55:52 When he did that, that provided a payment,

1:55:55 a payment that satisfies, right?

1:55:57 A propitiation of your sin debt, right?

1:56:00 And then your sin debt was paid in full to tell us die, right?

1:56:03 It was paid in full, right?

1:56:06 What is your role as it pertains to the gospel?

1:56:08 You bring your sin to the cross and you bring your repentance

1:56:13 and you push to, oh, you put your faith in

1:56:15 that when Jesus died on the cross,

1:56:17 that somehow that you don't fully understand

1:56:19 because we have finite brains that that counted for you.

1:56:23 Now, what is required of you?

1:56:25 Oh, now you have to be the ultimate rule follower,

1:56:28 the ultimate rulekeeper, the ultimate, well, hey, you know,

1:56:30 don't cuss, like do all that, like, no,

1:56:35 but you should be on the start of a sanctification process

1:56:38 that changes everything about you for the good.

1:56:42 Repentance is not saying I'm sorry super fervently

1:56:46 and with a lot of gusto.

1:56:47 Repentance is I was going this way

1:56:49 and I'm turning 180 degrees away

1:56:52 from my self-driven sinful desires and lifestyle.

1:56:56 And I am going to, in my best ability imperfectly,

1:56:59 gonna follow the dictates of God

1:57:01 and to follow the promptings of the Holy Spirit

1:57:03 as I move forward in this world.

1:57:05 And I'm gonna share about the transforming faith

1:57:09 and what I believe with other people

1:57:11 so that they can be invited to postuo in the chair as well.

1:57:14 That's what we're doing.

1:57:15 - Yeah, yeah.

1:57:16 And you don't have to be scared

1:57:18 to put your faith in the chair.

1:57:19 - No, it's a chair, right?

1:57:21 He's God, you don't have to be scared to put your faith in him.

1:57:24 - And when it's God's chair,

1:57:24 you know, when you put your way down on it's not gonna break.

1:57:26 It's not gonna, it's not a false chair, like it's not.

1:57:29 Now, there are plenty of false gospels out there

1:57:31 that look like chairs.

1:57:32 - Yeah, for sure.

1:57:33 - And one of the false gospels is hey boo, you do you, right?

1:57:37 What false gospels is chase money, get honeys, right?

1:57:40 That's a false gospel.

1:57:41 And then there's Christian sounding false gospels,

1:57:43 like new thought that Melissa Doherty

1:57:45 has taught a lot of people about

1:57:46 to where things kind of sound Christian,

1:57:48 they're bereft of any type of biblical theology,

1:57:52 like, or a biblical reality.

1:57:53 Hey, Jesus is just a guru

1:57:56 that said a bunch of really nice things.

1:57:57 He was a pacifistic, you know, communist somehow

1:58:01 that just would never tell anyone

1:58:03 that what they were doing was wrong.

1:58:04 He would never judge them.

1:58:05 He would never do any of those things.

1:58:06 And you know what, technically you're God.

1:58:08 Like you are divine.

1:58:10 Like, and if you send posy vibes into the atmosphere,

1:58:13 it'll connect with other posy vibes and rain down,

1:58:16 you know, positive things on you.

1:58:17 And hey, if you touch my hand,

1:58:19 'cause I'm a mega church pastor

1:58:20 and I've got two jets,

1:58:21 that's somehow you will receive blessings.

1:58:23 There's plenty of false gospels out there, baby.

1:58:26 But the true gospel is the only one

1:58:28 that when you sit, you will not fall.

1:58:30 Yeah, for sure. That's reality.

1:58:31 Yeah, man. That's so good.

1:58:34 And, you know, I think that's kind of,

1:58:38 I have discovered that.

1:58:39 And two, like, I think I realized like, okay,

1:58:44 well, why do I need to do this, right?

1:58:47 Well, to, you know, the whole store-up treasure

1:58:50 and heaven kind of thing, right?

1:58:51 Like, there's more to this than that.

1:58:54 Like, I, to glorify God and like,

1:58:58 to use my talents and to glorify Him

1:59:01 and to be a witness for Him, to folks who, you know,

1:59:05 who have honestly been in my shoes.

1:59:07 And that's like the reason why,

1:59:08 another reason why I'm like,

1:59:09 well, I can't, it's gotta be,

1:59:11 there is literally a line drawn.

1:59:13 This was a country, this was a country music career.

1:59:16 This is this new thing, right?

1:59:18 And because it's not just music.

1:59:22 Like, it's the gospel and I want to share the gospel, you know?

1:59:27 And God gave you a voice.

1:59:28 For sure. And dude, hopefully I will get back on the tour.

1:59:32 You know, hopefully one day, you know,

1:59:34 I'll be back on like the country music tours.

1:59:40 I think that what I'm gonna do is, you know,

1:59:42 can be on a country music tour.

1:59:44 I think it can be on a country music festival.

1:59:46 I mean, dude, right now, I mean,

1:59:48 this is the, I think you're gonna release this

1:59:50 a little after we record it.

1:59:51 But today, today, whatever today's date is,

1:59:55 I'm supposed to be in Indio, California,

2:00:00 playing stagecoach tonight.

2:00:01 That's where I was supposed to be.

2:00:04 But when the Lord called me out of this,

2:00:06 I was like, I got to cancel all the shows.

2:00:10 And everybody was like, oh, why?

2:00:11 They were like, don't you think the message

2:00:14 that you're wanting to deliver

2:00:15 should be for those people too?

2:00:18 And I'm like, okay, yes, but here's the deal.

2:00:20 I don't want people showing up to those shows

2:00:22 expecting to hear the stuff that, you know,

2:00:27 I've played for, 'cause I'm not,

2:00:29 that's not who I am as an artist anymore.

2:00:31 Like I am going to share the gospel.

2:00:34 - Camel Flush Cowboy is a chapter in your life

2:00:37 as an artist and it's just moved on

2:00:39 to a different part of the book.

2:00:40 - Exactly, for sure.

2:00:41 And so I don't want for one,

2:00:43 I don't want them to be disappointed

2:00:46 that I'm not going to play those songs.

2:00:48 But also I don't have anything to play.

2:00:50 I mean, this is so new.

2:00:53 I've written like literally a very small amount of songs

2:00:57 for what I'm going to do next.

2:00:58 And when the Lord sends me,

2:01:01 every time he sends me one, I go write it, you know?

2:01:04 And so, but man, it's just I,

2:01:08 but I am also in the best place in my life

2:01:11 because I just, the Holy Spirit has like,

2:01:14 just reminds me daily, bro, just keep being obedient.

2:01:19 Just keep being obedient.

2:01:21 Just keep, and honestly man, put your yes down.

2:01:24 And a lot of it, and I didn't mention this,

2:01:28 but I think this could be for somebody out there.

2:01:30 I had hit songs, I mean, homemade,

2:01:35 forever after all, Luke Holmes, doing this Luke Holmes.

2:01:39 Blake Shelton just recorded a song of mine

2:01:41 that hopefully is going to be a single for him at some point.

2:01:44 I went along, I never tithed to my church, never.

2:01:51 And dude, about a year and a half ago, I was convicted.

2:01:54 I'm like, we got, we got to start giving.

2:01:57 Like what am I doing?

2:01:59 - Yeah.

2:02:00 - And dude, it's literally just obedience

2:02:02 of what the Lord wants from you.

2:02:04 He starts to work in your life and you get consumed.

2:02:07 So it's literally, I'm just trying to not get off,

2:02:10 not run this thing off the rails.

2:02:12 I'm just trying to walk in obedience.

2:02:14 So like it started with, you know, me realizing,

2:02:19 you know, through an unbeliever asking me questions

2:02:21 that I didn't know much about the Bible.

2:02:22 I needed to know more about the Bible,

2:02:23 started digging into that, beginning to get convicted

2:02:26 that I'm not giving, start giving, start meeting

2:02:28 and being, surrounding myself with kindling

2:02:32 that I didn't even know that's what it was

2:02:33 at the point in time, you know,

2:02:35 around other men who are believers.

2:02:37 And just continue to walk in obedience towards the Lord,

2:02:40 spend more time in the Word.

2:02:41 And then he, along the way, after being obedient

2:02:46 for that period of time, he sends my unbelieving manager

2:02:48 to deliver a message that I prayed for.

2:02:50 Like that, this isn't happenstance.

2:02:53 I don't believe in, you know, coincidences

2:02:57 don't exist in my life that, you know, to this standpoint.

2:03:01 I just, everything is just orchestrated by the Lord.

2:03:03 And I'm just seeing it clearly now.

2:03:04 And I think it's always been there.

2:03:06 Just, I had, again, this veil was over my eyes, right?

2:03:09 - Well, let's talk kindling a little bit,

2:03:11 'cause we brought that up a little bit last night.

2:03:13 I think it was Matt Chandler,

2:03:13 the first person to say it because it's like, okay,

2:03:16 you can't guarantee your kid's salvation.

2:03:18 You can't, you know, get them saved,

2:03:20 but all you can do is put kindling in and around them, right?

2:03:24 And so, 'cause I think about it,

2:03:25 'cause I know people that were in Christian homes,

2:03:28 fervently Christian mother and father,

2:03:31 private Christian school, you know,

2:03:33 they went to all the camps, they did all the things

2:03:35 and they're adults now and they're far from the Lord, right?

2:03:37 And a lot of them are not believers.

2:03:39 - Yeah.

2:03:40 - Then you got the guys who grew up in abusive households

2:03:43 and, you know, were never around the Bible.

2:03:45 And then here they are, you know, in their 30s

2:03:47 and they're, you know, in the process of ODing on heroin

2:03:50 and they hover over their body for a second

2:03:52 and then they zips that back into their body

2:03:54 and then all of a sudden they end up in a church

2:03:55 and all that, okay, and then these people are Christians

2:03:57 and then they become missionaries.

2:03:58 So everyone's got their own story of how

2:04:00 they found the Lord and how they got there.

2:04:02 But kindling, you asked me a question last night

2:04:05 because we were talking about,

2:04:06 forget what we were talking about that brought it up,

2:04:11 but we were basically talking about how people,

2:04:13 or do you remember what you were saying?

2:04:14 - Yeah, so I believe in what you're getting at, I think,

2:04:16 is we were talking about not putting your faith

2:04:19 in pastors, right?

2:04:20 And I'm like, but man, dude, like,

2:04:23 and I don't think Joby wouldn't have a problem

2:04:24 with us using him as an example.

2:04:26 I love that dude.

2:04:27 Like, like that dude has been like awesome for me.

2:04:30 Like man, and like, I've had my dad, but I've never,

2:04:35 but like a man like him to like really put their arm around me

2:04:40 and believe in me as more than just a songwriter

2:04:43 and a country music singer to like want to pour

2:04:46 into my life, like he's been awesome for me.

2:04:49 And so when I hear you say,

2:04:51 "Hey, don't put your faith in these guys

2:04:53 that they can let you down," you know what I mean?

2:04:55 Like, well, that's kind of scary to me.

2:04:58 'Cause I'm like, okay.

2:04:59 Then I asked you, I'm like, "Hey, how do we make sure

2:05:01 that don't happen?"

2:05:02 - Yeah, so that's where we got to last night,

2:05:04 'cause every time something like this happens,

2:05:06 we're a pastor falls or, you know, we find out,

2:05:09 you know, what Steve Lawson did.

2:05:11 We find out what Andy Stanley is doing.

2:05:12 We find out what, you know, allegedly Robbie Zacharias

2:05:15 did before he passed away.

2:05:17 And I'm just like, I'm a reminder of my guys,

2:05:20 pick your favorite pastor, Toby Martin Matt Chandler,

2:05:22 Vody Bockham, John McCarthur, whoever your favorite guy is.

2:05:25 Don't put your faith in that person.

2:05:26 Pick your favorite country music singer,

2:05:28 pick your favorite politician, pick your favorite athlete.

2:05:30 You know, I'll put your faith in these people.

2:05:32 They will let you down.

2:05:33 Your favorite podcaster, if that's me,

2:05:35 don't put your faith in me.

2:05:36 I put myself in the same category

2:05:38 because some is gonna maybe take them out.

2:05:40 They may have a bend toward the chemical.

2:05:42 It might be money, it might be honey.

2:05:43 Like, we don't really know what it's gonna be.

2:05:45 - And then it can cause you to question your--

2:05:47 - Right, you get saved at a RZIM, Robbie Zacharias event.

2:05:50 And then we find out, allegedly,

2:05:52 that he was a horrible sexual deviant.

2:05:55 And then now you're questioning your own salvation, right?

2:05:57 And that's not a good thing.

2:05:58 But you asked me, how can we put,

2:06:00 'cause we were talking about Kenling,

2:06:01 you know, how can we put Kenling around these guys?

2:06:04 And I said, well, no, that's not how you ask it.

2:06:07 You asked like, how can we make sure

2:06:09 that those guys can't fall?

2:06:10 And what did I say?

2:06:11 - You said you can't.

2:06:12 - You can't, you flat out can't do it.

2:06:14 Just like you can't work out on their behalf.

2:06:16 You can't eat well for them.

2:06:18 You can't study the Bible for them.

2:06:20 You can't pray, you can pray for them,

2:06:22 but you can't pray for them as them, right?

2:06:25 - Yeah, for sure.

2:06:26 - And so, but I said, what you can do

2:06:28 is put Kenling around them, right?

2:06:30 So you feel some kind of way about Joby

2:06:33 kind of putting his arm around you

2:06:34 because like, you know, Joby to me,

2:06:35 it's like he's somewhere between like a much older brother,

2:06:38 much uglier older brother or an uncle or a father.

2:06:43 Like he's kind of like this amalgamation

2:06:44 of just a really important man in your life.

2:06:46 And as you said, he's got his arm around you

2:06:48 and it's like, oh my gosh, this feels great.

2:06:49 But what I can do for a guy like Joby

2:06:54 is when we're driving down the road,

2:06:56 you know, on our way to go hunt or do something else,

2:06:58 I can be like, hey man, how you doing?

2:07:00 And not like, hey brother, how you been?

2:07:03 Like that kind of thing.

2:07:03 No, no, no, no.

2:07:05 Hey man, things good at home?

2:07:06 - Yeah.

2:07:07 - You and JP still connected.

2:07:09 Are you in Reagan company?

2:07:10 Are still like, you know, she's still seeking after the Lord.

2:07:12 Hey, are your elders elders, right?

2:07:15 Are they laughing at your jokes a little bit too much

2:07:18 when they're not funny?

2:07:19 Like, hey, you still working out?

2:07:21 Hey, you still, you still, you know,

2:07:22 taking yourself on this, you still eating meat?

2:07:24 Like, hey, like, and you're just,

2:07:27 you're providing an opportunity for him to say,

2:07:29 no, actually, you know, my daughter and I

2:07:32 are, we're at odds right now

2:07:33 and I can't seem to break through with it,

2:07:35 which is not true, I'm just making this up.

2:07:36 Like Reagan can be the best.

2:07:37 But like, you know, you're giving them the opportunity

2:07:42 and what you're also doing, Drew,

2:07:44 is you're giving them the opportunity

2:07:46 to invite you to get up under the bar.

2:07:49 That's on their back, okay?

2:07:51 So I've used an example similar to this before,

2:07:53 but it's like, you know, you're a barbell athlete,

2:07:56 you're a squat guy, you know, precisely the amount of weight

2:08:00 you can put on the bar that would crush you, okay?

2:08:02 So even if you're really, really strong, right?

2:08:05 If I put 2,000 pounds, if I put a ton on the barbell

2:08:09 and then get under it and try to back squat it,

2:08:11 it's gonna, it's gonna destroy me.

2:08:13 It's gonna snap my spine in half.

2:08:15 It's gonna like, absolutely destroy me.

2:08:17 And that 2,000 pounds might be your life.

2:08:20 It might be the weight of your business.

2:08:21 It might be the weight of your ministry.

2:08:22 It might be the weight of your family.

2:08:23 It might be the weight that's been put on you

2:08:26 by having a kid gone prodigal.

2:08:27 It might be the weight of a sickness.

2:08:29 It might be the weight of a financial issue

2:08:31 that's going on right now.

2:08:32 But you as a man can invite other men

2:08:37 to get up under the bar with you, right?

2:08:40 - Yeah.

2:08:40 - You don't get to get up under,

2:08:42 you don't get to get off the bar.

2:08:43 - Yeah.

2:08:44 - You are in the middle of the bar.

2:08:45 But if I put five guys on either side

2:08:48 and I'm there in the middle,

2:08:50 we can get that 2,000 pounds off the rack and down

2:08:53 and up again.

2:08:54 - 100%.

2:08:55 - We can do that.

2:08:56 But I can't do that by myself.

2:08:57 And so when you're having these real conversations

2:08:59 with these men, men that might be untouchable, right?

2:09:03 That seem untouchable, right?

2:09:04 They're famous for whatever reason

2:09:06 or they have a big influence in the community

2:09:08 you live in, whatever.

2:09:09 But you're allowing them the opportunity

2:09:12 to invite you to get up under the bar.

2:09:14 And again, I say this all the time, guys,

2:09:16 if you get that invitation,

2:09:18 you better get up under that damn bar, right?

2:09:20 - Yeah, for sure.

2:09:21 - And if a guy welcomes you into his life

2:09:22 and says, "I want you to provide accountability for me,"

2:09:25 you better provide accountability.

2:09:26 And if you're the one asking for accountability,

2:09:29 when you get it, you better respond like a man.

2:09:31 - For sure.

2:09:32 - You better take the rebuke.

2:09:33 - 100%.

2:09:34 - And you better operate accordingly.

2:09:35 Why?

2:09:36 Because this man loves you

2:09:36 and he put relational chips in the center of the table

2:09:39 for not his benefit, for your benefit.

2:09:41 - 100%.

2:09:41 And so I think if you're in a group

2:09:46 of men, a de-group, whatever it is,

2:09:50 you'd like to call him your foxhole.

2:09:52 - Yeah, yeah, foxhole, mac carriers.

2:09:54 - All those.

2:09:55 - Okay, those guys.

2:09:56 - Okay, if you care about the guy sitting across from you

2:10:00 at your forging table, if you care about this man.

2:10:04 - Yeah.

2:10:05 - Tell him what you're struggling with

2:10:07 because you know what you're gonna do.

2:10:08 - Yeah.

2:10:09 - You're gonna break the barrier.

2:10:11 You're gonna break this veil.

2:10:12 You're gonna break this ice.

2:10:13 You're gonna shoot the elephant in the room, okay?

2:10:17 If you care about the dude sitting across from you,

2:10:20 tell him your struggle.

2:10:20 'Cause you know what you're gonna do?

2:10:21 You're gonna shoot the elephant in the room

2:10:22 and he's gonna tell you about his.

2:10:24 - You're modeling to them.

2:10:25 - 100%.

2:10:26 You're like, wait, this guy trusts me enough

2:10:28 to tell me that he's struggling with X,

2:10:30 whatever it is, porn, lust, money,

2:10:34 whatever the things are, right?

2:10:36 He could fill in the blank with anything.

2:10:39 Tell him what you're struggling with

2:10:40 and he's gonna go, man, this guy trusts me to tell me that.

2:10:44 Man, I need it.

2:10:45 Now I feel a little bit of freedom

2:10:48 'cause now I can tell him what I'm struggling with.

2:10:49 - Right.

2:10:50 - And dude, there is so much freedom.

2:10:52 And to me, that is manning up.

2:10:55 It's like, you know what I mean?

2:10:57 You wanna man up in front of your friends

2:11:00 and tell them what you're struggling with.

2:11:01 That's a man up.

2:11:02 - Well, dude, that's what we were talking about

2:11:04 in terms of men's ministry.

2:11:05 We were talking last night,

2:11:06 talking at the beginning of this conversation.

2:11:08 You know, a lot of men's ministries

2:11:10 have taken the physical part too far.

2:11:12 And somehow they've wrapped up their manhood

2:11:15 in the number of pullups they can do

2:11:17 or how fast they can do the Murph

2:11:19 or, you know, how much they can deadlift.

2:11:22 And dude, I'm pro all those things.

2:11:24 I do the Murph every year.

2:11:25 I deadlift every week.

2:11:26 Like I do hard things physically

2:11:28 'cause God gave me one body, right?

2:11:30 And I know you and I talked about that

2:11:31 because you're not as much on the physical side of things.

2:11:34 But it's just like God gave me one body

2:11:36 and what if he requires something of me

2:11:37 that's gonna take my body and my body's not ready for it?

2:11:40 Right, I use the example of, okay,

2:11:41 you're helping dig water wells for tribes in Africa

2:11:45 or whatever.

2:11:46 And you know, the place where you're working

2:11:48 is a couple miles down a dirt road

2:11:49 and you've got these high luxes

2:11:50 that you pile all the stuff in every single day

2:11:52 and you drive down the road.

2:11:53 Whoops, the high luxes went missing

2:11:55 or they're not running anymore.

2:11:57 Do we just not build water wells today?

2:11:59 Is that just, oh, or are we gonna start putting stuff

2:12:02 on our back and walking our tush

2:12:03 a couple miles down the road

2:12:04 so that we can help prepare these people?

2:12:07 But if you're not ready for that,

2:12:08 it's too late for training.

2:12:10 You're in the moment.

2:12:11 If an image bearer of God is being violated physically

2:12:14 and you don't know how to fight

2:12:15 and you're physically incapable of using your body

2:12:17 to stop somebody 'cause you're fat worthless

2:12:19 and you haven't taken care of your body your entire life.

2:12:22 You've just been feeding your body Cheetos and Dr. Pepper.

2:12:25 Well, you're not ready to intercede in this moment, right?

2:12:28 You don't have the skill, the desire

2:12:30 or the know-how to intercede in this moment.

2:12:32 That's why I talk about the physical.

2:12:34 But it's kind of like what a lot of people have said.

2:12:36 It's like, look, I like hunting,

2:12:39 I like going off road, I like working out, I like jerky,

2:12:43 I like whiskey, I like cigars.

2:12:44 And as Joby would say, all those things make me awesome.

2:12:47 They don't make me a man though, right?

2:12:50 - 100%.

2:12:50 - And for me, in what we talk about in a Don life,

2:12:52 a man is a male, it's stupid that I have to even start

2:12:55 the sentence, a man is a male.

2:12:56 But here we are in the dumbest time in human history.

2:12:59 But a man is a male that cultivates spiritual, mental

2:13:01 and physical resilience on a daily basis.

2:13:03 - Yep.

2:13:04 - What in the world does that require of you?

2:13:06 Spiritual, mental, physical resilience, not strength,

2:13:09 strength wanes over time, it always goes down as you age.

2:13:11 Resilience, that's the one thing you can continue

2:13:13 to get better at as you age is resilience,

2:13:16 not typically strength, right?

2:13:18 And so like, that's what a man does.

2:13:20 And if you do that, guess what?

2:13:21 You're gonna be loving your life and an Ephesians wife

2:13:23 in a Ephesians five way, you're gonna be raising up your,

2:13:26 well, it goes back to the lawyer that tried to trip up

2:13:30 Jesus as we see in the gospels and ask him, you know,

2:13:32 what's the greatest of all the laws?

2:13:33 And Jesus takes a singular question, turns it into

2:13:36 a dual answer, he says, one, love the Lord to God

2:13:38 with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.

2:13:41 Heart, soul, mind and strength.

2:13:43 Oh, and also the second is like it.

2:13:45 Love your neighbor as yourself.

2:13:46 Okay, well now that we need to talk about neighbors,

2:13:48 what does that mean?

2:13:49 What is your primary neighbor as a human being?

2:13:51 Your spouse, that is your primary neighbor.

2:13:54 If you're a male, you have to love your wife

2:13:55 in a sacrificial way as Christ loved the church.

2:13:57 And as a female, you are a helpmate made fit for him

2:14:00 and you are to protect his side and be at his side.

2:14:02 That's your primary neighbor.

2:14:03 Who's your secondary neighbor?

2:14:05 Your children, whom you have to raise up in the nurture

2:14:07 and admonition of the Lord and put as much kindling

2:14:10 around those people as anyone else that you would run into.

2:14:13 Who's your tertiary neighbor?

2:14:15 Everybody else, your friends, your pastors, your coworkers,

2:14:19 your job, all those things are tertially important at best.

2:14:24 And when things are in the right ordering,

2:14:26 then you're able to do the things in the order

2:14:29 and in the cadence that God has put before you

2:14:31 and has asked you to do.

2:14:33 But we live in the most disordered time period in history

2:14:37 to where men who have to provide for their families

2:14:39 or their worst and an unbeliever,

2:14:41 where they elevate that above loving God

2:14:43 with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength

2:14:45 and above every neighbor.

2:14:47 And so they build this career,

2:14:48 they build this life for themselves and they realize,

2:14:50 wait, I didn't bring anyone along with me.

2:14:52 Oh, and I'm at a place right now where nobody can check me.

2:14:56 Nobody can tell me, hey, brother,

2:14:58 you're screwing up right now

2:14:59 'cause they've insulated themselves

2:15:01 from all this negative feedback and it's just,

2:15:03 yeah, that's where a lot of these men's ministries go wrong

2:15:06 to where it's like, they go the lone wolf route

2:15:08 and it's like, watch animal planet.

2:15:10 What happens to lone wolves, they die alone.

2:15:12 Like that is not a good plan.

2:15:14 Don't do the lone wolf thing.

2:15:15 - Yeah.

2:15:16 Yeah, I think there's a lot of times

2:15:20 and this is just really something that became evident to me.

2:15:25 I think a lot of times we get it wrong

2:15:28 and I really don't have the ground to stand

2:15:31 on to speak on this, but I've just seen it

2:15:33 and I was kind of part of this.

2:15:34 Like we want the hand raised, but then we're...

2:15:38 - Where's the size of the shot?

2:15:39 - We're not equipping, no one's equipped

2:15:44 and I talked about this and I don't wanna get too much

2:15:46 in the weeds of this 'cause there's some information

2:15:49 that I don't know about.

2:15:49 - Let's get in the weeds.

2:15:50 - We talked about, but it's some things we talked about

2:15:53 that I don't really want to get the public.

2:15:55 So 'cause it was a specific situation,

2:15:57 but I was put in a position where I was asked questions

2:16:01 about things and I was not equipped to answer them

2:16:03 and I literally felt like a loser,

2:16:05 like a guy searching on a journey towards the Lord

2:16:09 and he's got questions and I had no answers

2:16:13 because I'm not equipped.

2:16:15 And yes, that is partly on me.

2:16:18 I mean, it's mainly on me, right?

2:16:20 That I haven't equipped myself, right?

2:16:22 But also, where do I go to get equipped?

2:16:26 I mean, I can go read the Bible and I can do my hear journal

2:16:30 and I can read, we've talked about that,

2:16:31 but like, I need help, bro.

2:16:34 - Yeah, like I need help, you know?

2:16:36 Like some, I'm literally, I want to help somebody,

2:16:39 but I'm screaming for help because I can't help them

2:16:41 'cause I don't know how to help them.

2:16:43 - Yeah, the desire you don't have to know how.

2:16:45 - 100%, that's so--

2:16:47 - What?

2:16:47 - The mission of--

2:16:48 - Sorry, I get so impassioned about it

2:16:50 because I've been, I was the guy, like,

2:16:53 and thank God I had a Joby Martin and a Will Moore

2:16:57 and a Kyle Thompson and other men who saw me

2:17:02 and wanted to put their arm around me

2:17:03 and they were guys that knew how to help.

2:17:06 - Right.

2:17:07 - But now here, you know, but I was put in a place

2:17:09 before I had those guys where somebody was, you know,

2:17:14 I was Christian enough for them to have questions for me

2:17:17 and I didn't have a stinking answer.

2:17:19 - And that's why, so why are we here?

2:17:22 We're here to equipment to push back darkness, okay?

2:17:25 You can't push back darkness if you refuse to look for it.

2:17:28 So if you're covering your eyes,

2:17:30 if you're plugging your ears, if you,

2:17:31 oh, you don't wanna rock the boat with, you know,

2:17:33 culturally incendiary topics or things like that.

2:17:36 And so you're just gonna let, you know,

2:17:37 let bygones be got bygones.

2:17:39 You're gonna go along to get along.

2:17:40 You're just gonna be like a, you know,

2:17:42 a walking hallmark card with everybody,

2:17:44 never challenging anybody, any of those types of things.

2:17:47 And so we equip guys to notice darkness,

2:17:49 which causes me personally and all the people here,

2:17:52 everyone that's ever sat at this forging table

2:17:54 to, you know, get into some dark areas

2:17:57 and wade into some dark waters

2:17:59 and sit there in the milieu of that for a while.

2:18:02 But then we have to equipment how to do that.

2:18:03 We have to equip them with a voice.

2:18:05 You know, I do a presentation

2:18:07 how to destroy pro-abortion arguments.

2:18:12 And I teach people like, hey,

2:18:14 here's the top 18 pro-abortion arguments that are made.

2:18:17 And here are the questions you should ask back to somebody

2:18:20 because the person in power is not the person answering

2:18:22 the question, it's the person asking the question.

2:18:25 But then we get back to the scripture telling us

2:18:28 that we are to be able to be stand ready to provide

2:18:31 an apologia or apology, a reason for the faith that we have.

2:18:35 Does that mean you need to become William Lane Craig

2:18:38 and like be able to talk about every possible philosophical

2:18:41 underpinning of a certain thing in audiology?

2:18:43 No, does that mean you should study him?

2:18:45 Yes, does that mean you should study

2:18:47 and retactics by Greg Cocle

2:18:49 and understand how you can be putting rocks

2:18:51 in people's shoes?

2:18:53 Yes, does it mean studying something

2:18:54 like the Sandler language system?

2:18:56 That's a sales language system that people,

2:18:58 if they need to sell like, you know, life insurance

2:18:59 or whatever, like they learn the Sandler system,

2:19:01 but it's all about questioning strategy.

2:19:03 And it's because again, someone says something,

2:19:06 they ask a question, it could even be an angry question.

2:19:09 And you can diffuse the situation and inform them

2:19:12 just by asking a question back.

2:19:14 And so you were telling me about this person

2:19:15 that's very important to you, that I was asking you,

2:19:17 these heartfelt sincere questions about God-ish related stuff,

2:19:21 Jesus tangentially related stuff, right?

2:19:25 And you were just completely flat-footed.

2:19:28 Now, it didn't destroy the relationship,

2:19:30 it destroyed an opportunity, but again,

2:19:32 it's not your job anyway to argue somebody

2:19:35 into the kingdom of heaven.

2:19:36 However, you can't, you can't be one of those people

2:19:39 that's like, Christian apologetics is stupid,

2:19:40 you shouldn't do that either.

2:19:41 Because what was Peter doing whenever he was

2:19:44 at the Areopagus and like, when you see these different

2:19:47 people preaching in the book of Acts,

2:19:49 like what were these people doing if not being prepared

2:19:52 for their audience?

2:19:53 So if it was a mainly Jewish audience,

2:19:55 they would speak, you know, Paul, Peter,

2:19:57 the different people Barnabas, they would speak in this way.

2:20:00 If they were speaking to a mainly Greek secular audience,

2:20:03 they would start this way, but it all circled the drain

2:20:07 to the gospel of Jesus Christ and the reality

2:20:09 of the resurrection.

2:20:10 - And I think to this story, to put a period on it,

2:20:15 I do think that I probably put a little rock in a shoe,

2:20:20 but man, dude, I wish I could have given more.

2:20:24 Yeah, you know, and so I think to encourage other people

2:20:28 out there who honestly know, you know,

2:20:30 know what I'm talking about, whether you're on the side

2:20:33 that I was on or whether you're a very knowledgeable person.

2:20:36 Hey, bro, don't just give a description, right?

2:20:39 We could go back to this, don't just give a description.

2:20:41 Get prescribed somebody, you know, like help us, you know?

2:20:45 And I just think that's, men need that.

2:20:48 And I think men want it.

2:20:50 And it's obvious by some of, I was listening

2:20:53 to your podcast, some of the numbers, I guess,

2:20:55 that just recently come, I think these were like

2:20:56 maybe UK numbers, just right.

2:20:59 - Yeah, just in Briarly, we were talking about it.

2:21:01 You know, I think--

2:21:02 - Shocking uptick in the number of news emails

2:21:05 going to church.

2:21:05 - But dude, I can sense this.

2:21:07 I can see this, I--

2:21:09 - Yeah, amongst--

2:21:11 - So I've been asking everybody about coming awakening

2:21:13 because it's just like, it feels like it's in the air.

2:21:15 It feels like it's so thick that you can like grab

2:21:16 a fistful of it.

2:21:17 - And do part of me wonders, is this why the Lord go back?

2:21:23 The Lord started putting kindling around me.

2:21:25 Is he trying to prepare me to provide, not entertainment?

2:21:29 I don't want to call it that, but provide an outlet

2:21:33 for men, for some of these men to have music to go listen to

2:21:36 that is the gospel, bro.

2:21:38 - Yeah.

2:21:39 - Like, I don't know, I don't know what the Lord has.

2:21:41 - I actually want to talk about that

2:21:42 because I want to put a fine point on that

2:21:44 because again, it's kind of like a thing now in my show

2:21:47 about how much I'm not a fan of contemporary Christian music

2:21:50 and how I like Christian metal and I like those types of things.

2:21:53 But all kidding aside and no tongue in cheek,

2:21:56 when I listen to generic contemporary Christian music

2:22:01 that as a category, it doesn't sound pleasing to my ears.

2:22:06 Now, I love me some Shane and Shane,

2:22:09 but even some Shane and Shane songs, I'm like,

2:22:10 eh, yeah, I just don't really like it.

2:22:12 I love me some Phil Wickham, but there's even some

2:22:15 of his songs are a little bit too scinthey,

2:22:17 a little bit too poppy and it's just,

2:22:18 it's not my style, it's not what I like, right?

2:22:21 And you can do that with just about every artist,

2:22:23 like, if they're rarely an artist,

2:22:24 even if they're your favorite,

2:22:25 where you just like every single track on every single album,

2:22:27 like, and you can tell by the number of streams

2:22:30 you have of certain songs on certain albums

2:22:31 versus some of your favorites, right?

2:22:34 But for whatever reason, metal has always appealed to me.

2:22:39 It's kind of like last night,

2:22:40 I'm teaching you about scotch and different things.

2:22:42 I like I love scotches.

2:22:43 Those are incredibly PD, smoky, you know,

2:22:47 depending on like, Ardbegg is kind of like, you know,

2:22:50 road tar covered pirate ship, campfire,

2:22:54 I had dining awesome and it sounds terrible to other people

2:22:56 for whatever reason, the first time I drank it,

2:22:59 I just understood it and it agreed with my palette.

2:23:01 I didn't have to acquire the taste

2:23:02 or any of those types of things.

2:23:04 But I do not like even the implication

2:23:06 that if you don't like contemporary Christian music

2:23:09 and if you don't sing it with your full heart

2:23:11 and fallen out in the aisles at church,

2:23:13 that somehow something's wrong with you.

2:23:15 Because a lot of people like that style of music,

2:23:18 most people don't.

2:23:19 But I'm also not advocating for bringing, you know,

2:23:22 a Christian death metal band and pending doom

2:23:24 and letting them do your worship set

2:23:26 because that's not gonna appeal to a wide audience.

2:23:29 - For sure.

2:23:29 - But there are people like me that will worship God

2:23:34 at a POD show or a skillet show or a convictions show

2:23:40 or, you know, again, a pending doom for today,

2:23:43 even though they're not around anymore.

2:23:45 And that's all the genre of very holy name, right?

2:23:49 Obviously they're the inter-altrow music of our show.

2:23:51 And like convictions has said, you know,

2:23:54 we're aggressive worship music.

2:23:56 I have a shirt from holy name that says violent worship.

2:23:59 That's the way that they're couching it and all that.

2:24:02 And it may not appeal to you, you may not like it.

2:24:05 But when I listen to it, I feel close to the Lord

2:24:08 and I feel excited about digging into the Bible

2:24:11 and about sharing the gospel and all those things.

2:24:13 The same is true for people that can't listen

2:24:16 to Bethel or Hillsong or, you know, elevation or whatever.

2:24:20 But when they hear the altar music,

2:24:22 which is worship music with a banjo

2:24:24 and it's, you know, it's Johnson City, Tennessee

2:24:26 and it's more bluegrass, that type of thing,

2:24:28 that's where I feel like you're gonna provide, Drew,

2:24:31 is like, okay, maybe you're not into hymns.

2:24:34 Maybe you're not into contemporary Christian music.

2:24:36 You're certainly not into, you know,

2:24:38 heavy aggressive Christian metal.

2:24:40 You're just country guy.

2:24:41 You like country music.

2:24:42 You like three chords in the truth.

2:24:43 But you also don't wanna listen to music

2:24:45 that you feel like is violating your intellect or, you know,

2:24:50 it's kind of like a lot of Christian art.

2:24:54 It's like, hey, it's Christian art.

2:24:55 So you better like it.

2:24:56 I know the movie's terrible.

2:24:57 I know the songs aren't good, but you better like it.

2:25:00 Why?

2:25:00 'Cause it's Christian, pure flicks, right?

2:25:02 You know, watch it.

2:25:03 But it's like it's just not good.

2:25:05 So I feel like that's your vein.

2:25:06 And that's the lane you're about to go run down

2:25:08 to where it's like it's country music with balls,

2:25:11 but it's gospel at the same time and it's unapologetic.

2:25:14 - Yeah, for sure.

2:25:15 100%.

2:25:16 I mean, I think that is literally what the Lord

2:25:19 has asked me to do.

2:25:20 And dude, I'm so excited to say I'm nervous, scared.

2:25:25 I mean, some of that exists a little bit, but not really.

2:25:29 I mean, not as much as people think.

2:25:30 I mean, I have left, I mean, I had a record deal

2:25:34 on a major record label, you know, out of Nashville.

2:25:37 Like, and I have asked out of that.

2:25:38 Like people are gonna, when people find this out,

2:25:41 they're gonna think you have lost your mind.

2:25:44 But like, bro, the Lord literally said,

2:25:47 hey, I need you to do this.

2:25:49 You know how I know he asked me to do that?

2:25:51 'Cause he's been waking my unbelieving manager up

2:25:53 to tell me this.

2:25:54 Five days after I said, Lord, send me a sign

2:25:57 that I can't deny.

2:25:59 That's how I know.

2:26:00 And so, yeah, it looks, it's gonna, it seems crazy,

2:26:05 but bro, I'm excited, you know, I think there's people

2:26:08 that, you know, that want it, that need it.

2:26:12 And two, man, again, if this is for one person,

2:26:16 I'm good with that too.

2:26:19 - Hey, that's what we just talked about.

2:26:20 - I'm just trying to be obedient.

2:26:22 - So we talked about last night,

2:26:23 we won't put anybody on the hot seat,

2:26:24 but there was a very specific person

2:26:26 that you brought up last night.

2:26:28 - Yeah.

2:26:29 - No, guys, it's not Luke Holmes,

2:26:30 but there was a very specific person

2:26:31 that's very important in your life

2:26:33 that you said, if getting out of the country music,

2:26:37 Nashville thing and going into this Christian circle

2:26:40 saves that guy and that, that was the whole reason

2:26:45 behind all this, you would consider that worth it, right?

2:26:48 - A hundred percent.

2:26:49 - And again, it goes back to what you were talking about

2:26:51 is the treasures that are stored up in heaven, right?

2:26:54 And I always use the, you know, the word picture,

2:26:57 it's not accurate biblically, but I'm like,

2:26:59 man, I'm just putting another golden brick

2:27:00 in my driveway, right?

2:27:02 And so, 'cause again, all these crowns

2:27:05 that you're gonna get when you get to heaven,

2:27:06 do you know what's required of you when you get there?

2:27:09 You take the crowns and you lay them at the feet

2:27:11 of the Lord, right?

2:27:13 So even all the stuff that you stored up in heaven

2:27:15 because you did the right thing

2:27:16 and you shared the gospel when you were supposed to

2:27:18 and you made the music you were supposed to

2:27:20 and you did all the Christianese things

2:27:22 that you were supposed to do,

2:27:24 it's still not for your glory.

2:27:25 - And when you understand, and this is what it took for me,

2:27:28 when you understand the grace of Jesus

2:27:30 and what that meant when he died on the cross,

2:27:34 he gave his life for you, right?

2:27:38 You're like, and I go, when I understood that, right?

2:27:41 And I go, man, dude, I need some more crowns to lay at it

2:27:45 like this man's feet, right?

2:27:47 - Yeah.

2:27:48 - And so I've got 33, you know, I was saved as a young child,

2:27:52 so whatever the math is, I've got 20 plus years

2:27:55 of some catching up to do on storing up some crowns

2:27:58 to give this man who gave his life for me,

2:28:01 a dirty rotten human that deserves, you know, death, right?

2:28:06 But man, this man died on a cross for me.

2:28:10 And bro, I got some more crowns, I need to store up to give him.

2:28:14 So like, thank you, Jesus, for giving me a chance to do this.

2:28:16 And man, I'm gonna use it for your glory, so.

2:28:19 - Well, dude, I'm psyched for you.

2:28:22 You know, we talked a lot about some of the songs

2:28:23 that are coming out.

2:28:24 And again, guys, by the time you're listening to this,

2:28:25 like we're releasing it strategically,

2:28:27 so you should be able to go to Apple Music,

2:28:30 to Spotify, to YouTube, search through Parker,

2:28:33 and you'll be able to see kind of the stuff

2:28:34 that you're coming out with.

2:28:35 And this is where I always tell guys,

2:28:38 a lot of guys have this habit and I don't get it.

2:28:40 They'll find something awesome.

2:28:42 It could be a new seasoning, shout out to Jeez.

2:28:46 It could be, you know, a new Jitsugi, shout out to Origin.

2:28:49 It could be, you know, a new song, or a new movie,

2:28:51 or a new show, or a new book, or whatever.

2:28:54 And they consume it, they love it.

2:28:56 And they don't tell anybody else about it, right?

2:28:58 They don't leave a five star review.

2:29:00 They don't do anything to get the word out

2:29:02 that they actually like it.

2:29:03 So guys, if you download this music, if you stream it,

2:29:06 if you whatever, and if you like it, guess what?

2:29:09 All you gotta do, and all these apps make it super easy.

2:29:12 Typically you hit one button, if not two buttons,

2:29:16 and you share it with someone that you think will like it.

2:29:18 So if there's someone in your life

2:29:19 that absolutely abhors country music,

2:29:22 and they think it's the stupidest thing in the world

2:29:24 and all that, probably not the person you should share it with.

2:29:26 But if you like it, like people like like people,

2:29:30 and so there's probably some people in your immediate circle

2:29:32 that are gonna be down with that same style,

2:29:34 that's how this stuff gets out.

2:29:36 And so I always tell people, like they'll be followers

2:29:39 of my show and I'll be like, hey,

2:29:40 so if you share it around, they're like, well, no.

2:29:43 I'm like, well, are there guys in your life

2:29:44 that you also think could, you know,

2:29:46 get some value from the people I'm interviewing,

2:29:48 or from the forging table, or whatever?

2:29:50 Well, yeah, I'm like, well, let's go ahead

2:29:52 and connect those dots for some people

2:29:54 because if they don't know I exist,

2:29:55 how in the world are they gonna find me?

2:29:56 Perhaps that's your job.

2:29:58 How are they gonna find your music?

2:29:59 Guys, just share this stuff around.

2:30:01 - Thanks, pal.

2:30:02 - I don't want stuff to be the best kept secret.

2:30:04 I was telling you this, like there's dudes in Nashville

2:30:07 that they're amazing guitarists,

2:30:10 maybe they're great singer-songwriters and all that,

2:30:12 and it's like you don't want to be the best artists

2:30:15 that no one knows about if you feel like God's calling you

2:30:18 to be an artist and all that.

2:30:19 And so ultimately, man, I'm psyched to play a little role

2:30:24 in some of the influence and the stuff that's going on

2:30:26 with you and like kind of the ecosystem

2:30:28 that is being created with these guys

2:30:31 that are getting after it spiritually, mentally and physically,

2:30:34 and they're taking in good Bible teaching,

2:30:38 you know, expository preaching, verse by verse,

2:30:40 verse by verse, they're not being isogied to do,

2:30:42 they're being exogied to do.

2:30:44 And like, we're just creating this.

2:30:45 And so like, I mean, I think there's some great things

2:30:48 for you and it may not look like, you know,

2:30:50 Grammys and mansions, but it's gonna look like,

2:30:52 you know, something this side of glory

2:30:53 that's gonna provide a lot of benefit for a lot of dudes.

2:30:56 I'm pumped for you.

2:30:57 - Yeah, and I have so much, you know,

2:30:59 satisfaction in that more than anything.

2:31:01 I mean, you know, I think we would be remissed

2:31:05 like people in country music, for sure.

2:31:08 It would be, we would be lying if we said,

2:31:10 "Hey, there's not a part of it that exists where you're like,

2:31:12 Oh man, I might be famous and I might be rich one day."

2:31:15 Right?

2:31:16 But dude, like I have so much freedom

2:31:20 from any of those thoughts anymore.

2:31:23 Because I'm, you know, what I'm gonna be rich in,

2:31:26 some crowns to lead Jesus' feet.

2:31:27 And that's, I'm more excited about that.

2:31:29 And thank God that I have experienced this revelation

2:31:33 or whatever you wanna call it that like,

2:31:34 the Lord has gotten my attention.

2:31:35 And man, it's just been awesome.

2:31:38 Thanks for platforms like yours who are allowing guys

2:31:43 like myself to grow in the Lord.

2:31:46 I mean, I think, you know, that your podcast

2:31:50 is plays a role in what has happened in my life in the last

2:31:54 five months, you know, six months.

2:31:55 And so I just, I think we need more of it.

2:31:59 You know, like, dude, after I get done,

2:32:01 I listen to your podcast for the week.

2:32:03 And then I listen to Deepin with Joby during the week.

2:32:07 And I listen to all these things.

2:32:08 And then it's Tuesday.

2:32:09 And I'm like, okay, well, what do I do

2:32:13 for the rest of the week?

2:32:14 You know, and so I just wanna say thank you for that too.

2:32:19 But I hope, I think people will love what I'm gonna do.

2:32:22 I hope, if not, that's fine too.

2:32:24 I don't know what, again, I'm just trying to be obedient.

2:32:26 I don't know what the Lord has planned.

2:32:27 It ain't up to me.

2:32:28 So I'm just trying to continue to write songs

2:32:30 that he wants me to write and put them out

2:32:32 and then let him do with it, what he wants to do with it.

2:32:35 - I can appreciate that, but dude, that's all for me.

2:32:37 Is there anything else you wanna get off your chest?

2:32:38 - No. - All right, dude.

2:32:40 Hey, man, appreciate being here.

2:32:41 - Yeah, you too.

2:32:42 - Thank you for listening to this podcast.

2:32:43 Wherever you're listening to this,

2:32:44 please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five-star review.

2:32:47 If you wanna come speak live at your event

2:32:49 or on your podcast, just shoot me an email to info@undonton.life.

2:32:53 That's I-N-F-O@undonton.life.

2:32:55 Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook

2:32:57 and check out our website for everything else,

2:32:58 including how to donate to keep more content

2:33:00 like this coming your way.

2:33:01 Just go to www.undonton.life.

2:33:04 And as always, we wanna thank the band Holy Name

2:33:05 for allowing us to use their music for our content.

2:33:08 The music on this podcast is their song Perpetua,

2:33:10 which is off their self-titled debut album

2:33:12 on Face Down Records.

2:33:13 The links are in the description.

2:33:15 I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember,

2:33:18 keep pushing back darkness,

2:33:20 keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience.

2:33:24 Keep seeking the lion of Judah.

2:33:26 (upbeat music)

2:33:45 (upbeat music)

2:33:47 You focus on your physical and mental health,

2:34:01 but when's the last time you checked in

2:34:02 on your financial health?

2:34:04 Many Americans feel financially anxious,

2:34:06 yet many are doing better than they think.

2:34:09 At Fairwind's Credit Union,

2:34:10 we give you a clear snapshot of your finances

2:34:13 and a plan to move forward with confidence.

2:34:15 With high-yield savings and free checking,

2:34:17 we help your money work harder.

2:34:19 Visit fairwinds.org for more information,

2:34:22 federally insured by NCUA.

2:34:24 Struggling with weight loss?

2:34:28 Prolon's five-day fasting mimicking diet

2:34:30 is a clinically developed nutrition program

2:34:32 designed to promote fat loss

2:34:33 while protecting lean body mass.

2:34:35 Developed at USC's Longevity Institute,

2:34:37 it assists the body in entering a fasting-like state

2:34:40 that helps reset metabolism and target visceral fat.

2:34:43 In just five days, Prolon offers a science-backed approach

2:34:46 to weight loss without extreme restriction or guesswork.

2:34:49 Get 15% off plus a $40 bonus gift

2:34:51 when you subscribe at prolonlife.com/now.