[music] This is Undaunted [music] Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it. All right, guys. Dominion season continues as you've heard me talk about on the show and you've heard some other folks talk about. We have opened up our application portal for Dominion applications. Undaunted.life/dominion undaunted.life/dominion. We are getting applications right now. A lot of applications, but we only have a limited number of interview slots for December. And when they're all taken up, I'm not opening up any more slots. At least I don't think I will. I reserve the right to take uh to take that back. So, but as of right now, we're just trying to fill up all those interview slots with guys that are serious about our our intensive disciplehip program, but we got a little bit of a different approach today. You've heard from some of the guys that have been in Dominion's team 4 and team 5, but now we got a wife that's in here because she is very excited about the Dominion program and she didn't think she was maybe about five uh five or six months ago when she first heard about it. So, this is John Bower Sockox's wife. So, Kim, welcome to the show. I appreciate you being here. >> Thanks, Kyle. I'm glad to be here. >> Well, so, uh, well, let's just back up because I do want to read, uh, kind of how you and I got introduced. We kind of got introduced via Instagram. So, that's something that's going to be interesting that I'll read here in just a second, but let's just talk a little bit about you. So, so where do you live kind of, you know, describe your family in general? What What does life look like in the Bower Socks household? >> So, we live in North Carolina. Um, we're originally from New Jersey. We moved here to North Carolina about four years ago. Um for John lost his job and we were looking for a new place to live. Um we didn't want to stay up north any longer. So that's how we ended up here. Um we have three kids. Um I have a daughter from my first marriage who will be 30 this year and then we have a 19-year-old son and an 11-year-old daughter. So we have a very interesting life um with kids in all different areas of you know growing up. So um John has been a great stepdad to our oldest daughter. Um [clears throat] she he's been in her life since she was three. So um so almost all of her life. So um but we have a you know we have our kids are going in all different directions. I work um part-time at our church, so that adds to our life. And I also homeschool our youngest daughter, so um we do have a a pretty crazy life. Um that's pretty busy. Um which, you know, when John asked to do this, I was like, do we have space for that? Like, do we have space for that? Do we have money for that? Do we how are we going to do that? So, um, so yeah, that's kind of where we're at, um, right now in our life, but we love living here. Um, it's been, um, such a blessing to move here and, um, we're glad to be out of the north because it's not our favorite place. So, >> it's not a lot of people's favorite place, but, uh, Kim, I actually I got to just thank you again for doing this because I heard you don't even like doing the announcements at church when you're asked to do it, and here you are >> talking on the show, right? So, we're Hey, hey, we're all about elbowing people out of their comfort zones, okay? That's that's what we're doing. But let's go let's go back to before you heard about Dominion or any of those types of things. >> So, just to kind of set the scene, and obviously John and I have talked about this, you and I talked about it a little bit briefly off air, >> but where where was John at like a as as a man, as a husband, as a father? Um, you know, I guess we could just say earlier this year before any of the Dominion stuff came up. Um the Lord has really been pushing him. Um he didn't grow up in a Christian home. So uh his real his most real example I would say of a Christian man was my dad. Um and my dad got up every morning, sat at his desk, read his Bible, prayed, um loved his family unapologetically. So that was really where John got most, you know, most of his Christian man experience, I would say, initially. And um but the Lord really has been working on him in this last year especially. and um earlier in the year, you know, he's he's trying to lean into our men's ministry at church and um really get that turned around because it's kind of flat. And um he's been listening to you for a while. So, when the opportunity came up this year, he was like, "What do you think about this?" And I was like, "Yeah, I don't know. Like, I don't think you're in the right headsp space for that." Um, and because like we talked about off air, I think a lot of women, right, they'd rather complain about their husbands than actually see them change. And I have probably been like that for a very long time. Um, God has been working on that in me also in this last year. So, when he said it, I was like, okay, well, sure, you can apply for it, but how much is it? Like, that's I'm a I'm a money girl, you know? I'm like, what how much makes sense, you know? Um, I know that you, you know, listen to Kyle's podcast and all the things, but really, who is this guy? So, I started listening to you because I was like, "All right, let me see what he's all about." Um, and that's, you know, so I would say he was struggling, you know, a lot in the beginning of this year to really know where it is that God wants him, not just um in the men of our church, but in his our family, in our marriage. Um, so when this came up, I was like, "All right, well, go ahead." Apply for it. I'm like, "Maybe he just won't get it. It'll be fine. We don't have to make the decision." Like, you know, and because that's what we do, you know? We sabotage. That's what we as women, we often sabotage what it is that our husbands want to do. So >> then when he came back to me, I was like, "All right, well, I got in." And I'm like, "Okay." And he's like, "But I'm going to tell you how much it is." And he's like, "Don't freak out." He's like, "It's all fine." And so then he tells me how much it is. And I was like, "Yeah, no." Like that was just my first thought. Um [clears throat] and then, you know, probably a day later, I'm like, "You know what? I really need to pray about this. I need to really think it through. Um and [clears throat] then as him and I started to have conversations about it, the more conversation we had about it, the more I was like, you know what? Um this is the life we have. This is the place that he's in right now. And if I don't lean into it, then I'm responsible. I'm partly responsible for where he goes in his life, how how his faith journey goes. So, um, that was, you know, that was we talked about it then and I was like, "Okay, let's do it." You know, it's this is only this is one time. Um, and if I don't lean into where you want to go, then I'm holding you back and I don't want to do that. >> Well, Kim, I appreciate you you sharing that perspective because you're right. There are a lot of women, you know, wives that love to lament, but then when their husband is presented with an opportunity to change everything, burn the ships and to become the head of the household and and to lead in the way and all that, women will sabotage that. So, they'll complain on one end, but then they'll sabotage on the other. And then it leaves the husband in this place of like, >> crap, what am I supposed to do? Cuz I don't want to run her over, but at the same time, I'm stuck. Like, so do I stay stuck or do I get out of the mud? And there's [clears throat] something psychological because, you know, we've gotten some complaints and some not so nice comments in our inbox about the investment of this program. Why is it so much time? Why is it so much effort? Why is it so much, you know, financially to do this? >> There's something psychological in the brain of a man, right? So, if this were a $20 a month, you know, app, >> well, what's $20 a month? Like, you're not going to change your life for 20 bucks a month. If this were like a weekend course that was like 500 bucks or something like that for one weekend and plus a flight or something like that, that's not really much either. But there's something that breaks loose in a man when it's like, no, I'm providing you a pathway, but it's going to cost you like I need a pound of flesh. I need your effort. I need you to lean forward, and I need your family to be invested in all the ways, not just financially. But >> yeah, >> when John came to Oklahoma, so you know, y'all decided you're going to do this. >> He became a part of the program. And a couple of months into the program, we do a meet up here in Oklahoma where, you know, we work out, we break bread, you know, we, you know, smoke some cigars, drink some whiskey, and have have some fun. Well, we're at breakfast the the morning before or lunch before he's about to leave, and he just hands me his phone, and it was a post that you made. Now, guys, this is 2 months into the program, okay? or it was like three. So, we weren't quite at the halfway mark of the program and now he's he's reaching the end. But, if you don't mind, I just want to read this to the guys. >> I'll admit I was skeptical when John decided to join an online disciplehip group led by a podcaster he'd been following. I'm just a podcaster. I like that. Um, what could he really gain from a virtual group of men who live hundreds of miles apart? But God, as always, had a different plan. Just a few months later, John is in Oklahoma with the group getting some serious muchneeded challenges in his role as a Christ follower, husband, father, and friend. I'm truly humbled that I ever doubted and so and am so incredibly thankful for the powerful way God is moving in his life, our marriage, and our family. I'm beyond thankful today for a man who pursues Jesus instead of the things of this world. A word to my sisters, never stop praying for your husbands and single ladies. Be praying for the one God has already selected for you. It is in our faithfulness and trust that the Lord brings us closer to him and the man he has placed in our lives to walk alongside us. And I read that I was just like I was like gobsmacked. I was just like because it's it's one thing to get affirmation from the guy that he's getting value >> but when a non-neutral but you know kind of third party observer right otherwise known as their spouse [laughter] >> is like no >> I double stamp triple stamp what what is being observed by everybody else >> and so just tell me a little bit about that Kim because you know it's one thing to to believe that it's another thing to put that out there for you know your followers on Instagram and your friends to But what was it that you saw from John just in 2 or 3 months to where you're like this was already worth it for us? >> Mhm. Um what I would say is John like many men um does not you know lean into friendship. Um he doesn't lean into sharing his feelings with other men. I think it's a challenge you know that that men have and then even more so of a challenge within the church. Um we have as a church we have you know removed the importance of the man leading his family. Um we have seen it you know in our own lives in different churches that we have been in. And um so seeing him travel across the country to go meet with a group of men that he had never met before and have to, you know, be honest about where he's at in life and the things he's challenged by. Um that was a big step for him. That wasn't something I think he would ever do. Um and he's he's pushing back at things. Um even you know in our in our lives in the lives of our son um who's 19 you know he's at that age where he's he's you know he's an amazing kid but he's pushing the boundary with certain things and um even with our youngest daughter how he didn't he didn't have a super close relationship with his dad so he's always struggled as a father and how to be a good dad. So, I've seen how his relationship with her has changed. And even with him and I, we talk so much more than we ever did before. I can talk your ear off till, you know, tomorrow. And that's not John. John's very, he's a quiet guy. Um, he's very introspective. He's amazingly smart and which often intimidates me. Um, but I've just seen that change in him that we just are talking about things more. Um, and we're we're leading we're praying together, which we didn't ever do. Like I that's scary to admit, right? And we didn't ever do that. Um, so we've been doing that, which is something that has strengthened just us as a couple. So I've just I've and I feel like his spirit is different. um he's more determined to um go after things that he feels like the Lord is putting on his heart, which you know, I think he's been afraid to do that before. So, I feel like he has more confidence to do that now. >> So, you brought up fear and confidence there at the end, Kim. This is one thing that I noticed about men is those are the they never want to admit that they're afraid and they always want to at least peacock confidence, right? Like, oh, no, I'm actually confident. No, I'm competent in this area. Like, oh, I know how to do that. That's something I do every year when I do my how to avoid being a crappy man episode, which is don't pretend like you know how to do something that you don't know how to do. Right? So, I don't know how to work on an old car. So, imagine me going up to a guy that's working on an old Chevel and being like, "Oh, yeah, I know what that does and I know what that does and just give me a wrench." And that's so stupid. I'm taking an opportunity away from that, man, to teach me something. And I remember specifically the very first thing we did at our meet up in Oklahoma is we did what we do every Sunday night here in Oklahoma with my foxhole is we we do jiu-jitsu. So we we sit around, we talk about the book, we do a workout, which is, you know, typically not the easiest thing in the world. And then we train jiu-jitsu >> and it's just open for everybody, right? You don't have to be a trained killer or MMA fighter to come in. >> And John when he came there had never done anything like that before. >> Yeah. And it's very uncomfortable, right? Like when you get controlled, cuz I brought some of my guys in. When you are physically controlled and dominated by another man, there's only two ways you can go with that, Kim. You can be like, "Okay, I'm just going to plug my ears and cover my eyes and pretend like that never happened." >> Or I'm going to be like, "Oh, shoot. Th this is a detriment to me. What if what if my wife or one of my children were being, you know, harmed in some way and I'm being held down and couldn't get up? That sucks. we can't do that. It seemed like an eye openening experience for John, but I feel like the Oklahoma experience alto together, you know, 3 months into the program and doing the meetup was was an eye openener for him. So, what have you seen since Oklahoma over the last couple of months about about John and and the things that he's continued to do in that vein? Um so this is this is weird to kind of talk about, but um, so our men's ministry at our church, I don't know who's going to listen to this, but I'm just going to throw it out there. >> Yeah, nobody's listening, right? You know, it's fine. >> Our our men's ministry at our church is struggling. Um, and you know, one thing that as a wife and a woman that I have seen, um, and I've experienced myself because of my husband, and not not to put him down in any way, but it's it is just the truth of of where we've been is um men not leading their families well. And so it has been on his heart um especially since he came back from Oklahoma. um really to lean into that and um to help other men like he's being helped now um to you know better themselves grow closer to the Lord um stand up and be strong for their families. We don't live in a world that wants that or or p has men pursue that in any way. Um, if anything, we are we are pushing men further and further down, and that's not going to strengthen our families. It's not going to strengthen our marriages. Um, and so since since we've come home, he has sent emails and had conversations with people that were probably something that he never really wanted to do, but now really is leaning into. And God is um God's working. He posted something on a men's page the other day and someone he never it was one of Job's um sermons and someone that he thought would never have liked that post liked the post and he was like you're never going to believe who liked that that [clears throat] you know sermon clip that I posted the other day. So you know it's little things I think you can your husband can join something like this and you expect to see like this amazing transformation in them. Um, but I think it's in the small stuff. To me, I would rather see the small stuff than my husband to come home and be like, you know, change all these things about himself. Um, it's the small ways that he's changing that I just, you know, I've noticed especially since he came home from Oklahoma. I think you're hitting on something that's key there because again everyone looks for the big the big transformation because that's what gets the most clicks on Instagram, right? So you were like, you know, 100 pounds overweight and you spend the next year working out or whatever doing it the right way and then now you show the before and after and everyone's like, "Oh man, this this crazy transformation, >> but it's those little consistent movements in the right direction that make all the difference." And and the same thing that is true, this program isn't about getting you fired up to do that one big thing. Yes, >> it's about giving you the scaffolding or the foundation to build the scaffolding on top of to be consistent in your efforts, whether it's towards your marriage or towards your fitness or towards your men's group or towards your prayer life or just your spiritual life overall, your mentorship, your disciplehip, your sanctification process, whatever. So, I I think you're absolutely hitting on that. But we'll make this the last question, Kim, because >> there are going to be a lot of ladies that are listening to this because we got our 5enters in our audience. Those are our ladies. We got to make patches for y'all uh to put on your your bike or vest or whatever. But we got our 5 percenters listening to this that want their husbands to go through a program like this. >> But the main reason I wanted to speak to you is because there are there are husbands that are going to interview with me and their wives aren't going to be on the call obviously and their husbands are going to be bbop over to their wives and be like, "Hey, I want to do this, you know, six-month intensive disciplehip program with my favorite podcaster. Is that okay?" And it's like if it were a $20 thing or a $100 thing, then yeah, they don't even have to have the conversation. They're just going to do it. But this is like a family investment. And so they're going to be women that are somewhere between on the fence >> and absolutely no chance, right? And you know, because most of the women aren't just like, "Yeah, absolutely do it. I'm a fan of Kyle, too." It's kind of it's kind of on the latter side of things. So what would you say to the woman that's maybe in that spectrum of just like, "Yeah, I don't get it. I don't understand it. Yeah, I don't want you to do it." But at the same time, I'm still gonna complain if you stay the way you are. >> Um, I would say first go to the Lord about it. Um, I think we have lots of feelings as women about stuff and um, often those feelings are not feelings from the Lord. They're things that we feel within us because we feel righteous about those feelings. And um that was something that I had to remind myself of in the very beginning was it's it's God's will, not my will. Um what God's will is for my family and my marriage matters. Um and that matters more than what it is that I want. So um that would be the first thing is to really lean in and pray about it. Pray about it yourself. Pray about it with your husband. Um ask your friends to pray for you about it. Um prayer is not a little thing. It's a big huge thing that we don't do enough. Um and then I would say um who do you want your husband to be? Um I [clears throat] want my husband to be the best that he can be. Um the strongest that he can be. I want his faith to be strong. I want him to lead me and our children well. So, um, you can't you can't go wrong if you're asking those things of your husband and he wants to do them and then you decide, oh, well, it's not it's really not that important. We have to give up control. Women are so, again, I'm not against working. I'm not against all those things, but we want control in our our marriages instead of letting our husbands lead us. And it's why we're struggling as a as people, as a country, as a world, because we we don't lean into the men that God placed in our life. Um, and actually allow them to lead us. Um, so that's I guess that's what I would say. >> Well, Kim, I really appreciate your time. That's all for me. Is there anything else you want to get off your chest? >> No, sir. >> All right. Well, I appreciate that again. Yeah, you got it. Again, guys, it is undaunted.life/domminion. Undaunted.lifeinion. life/dominion. Make sure you apply and go and send this episode to your wife so you can kind of like uh grease the skids there a little bit. So, we'll talk again soon. Thank you Kim. >> Thank you,