DAVID HARRIS JR. | The Danger of Christless Conservatism (Ep. 981)

Let's be honest, most men drift. We wake up, we scroll, we work, and then we just rinse and repeat. And we know we're softer than we should be. That's why I built the 31-day resilience reset. This is not a devotional. It is a field manual for men ready to stop drifting and start fighting back. So, for 31 days, you'll train your spirit, mind, and body with scripture, prayer, and daily challenges that forge real resilience. Go to www.undaunted.life/31. life/31day to download this resource for free. That's undaunted.life/31day. Start your reset today. This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it. David, I've been excited to talk to you for a while, but I don't normally get to talk to someone in studio after eating pancakes and hash browns, and so we just checked that box, though. I mean, you feeling pretty good with that. >> Very good. >> So, guys, if we burp into the microphones or whatever, this is not a normal setting. But, no, we actually got connected uh you know, good buddy of mine, Matt Grassmire, who's done the forging table and done all that. He ran into you at an event. >> Yep. >> You know, he's always kind of scouting for us, you know, seeing if there's somebody that would be interesting on the show. And like I had been following you for a long time and you know kind of following your page and getting into everything but I mean just what you've done in the conservative space is pretty interesting and even as we were talking about at lunch the conservative space is kind of >> it's kind of weird right now. It's like kind of fractured and all that which >> we'll probably get there later in this conversation. But even just there are a lot of people that know you that follow you don't know anything about your story. They don't know anything about kind of the ups and downs that you've experienced in life >> in your faith with with addiction different things like that. They just kind of see, you know, they see the memes, they see, you know, the the pictures with Trump, like that kind of thing. Yeah. >> But let's let's go uh like all the way back to your childhood cuz like, you know, obviously you are kind of a collection of what happened to you as a kid, you know, as an adult. I think all of us can kind of check that box. So, let's just start there and work our way forward. >> Sounds good. So, raised in a in a Christian home. Dad was black, mom was white. They're both in heaven right now. My dad went there last year and my mom my mom went there in 2009. But raised in that in that uh home. Uh born in Northern California. Parents moved to Oregon. They divorced when I was nine. I literally my dad literally picked me up from uh from school and we drove from Clamoth Falls, Oregon back to Reading and I didn't see my mom again until we were in court. Didn't really know what was happening. They were getting a divorce. And the judge actually asked me, he pulled me into his chambers. Uh, I have a I have a seven-year younger daughter or excuse me, sister, my parents, uh, daughter that they had adopted, >> and she was two at the time. And the judge pulled me into his chambers, and he said, "Son, who do you want to live with?" Well, 9 years old, I'm like, "Well, uh, I'm a man. I've got dark skin like my dad does. He's got like lot darker skin, but he's a man. I think I want to live with my dad." And the judge is like, "Well, I don't want to move you, you know, I don't want to split you and your your your sister up." So, we both went to live with my dad, and I didn't realize. I mean, again, I'm 9 years old. What do I know? I don't know. I don't know how much of that actually had bearing on the judge's decision. Uh, hindsight now, knowing what was going on at the time, it probably wasn't all of it, but he was probably want to make sure I had no problems going with my dad. >> Yeah. >> Um, my mom was uh a very bold woman. She was great in sales, but she also battled her addictions um throughout the years, mostly just alcohol. But I think she was battling that at that mo that moment in time. And so my dad was trying to basically rescue us. That's why he just picked us up from school and we we left Oregon literally. So I live went to live with my dad who was uh very big uh you familiar with Gary Chapman and the five love languages. >> Oh, of course. Yeah. >> Um he uh my dad was very big on um acts of service and you could call it quality time because he was he was there. If he he was if he wasn't working, he was at home. Yeah, >> it wasn't really quality time because he was just zoned into the box watching sports or whatever. And he'd drink his beer and then he'd go to sleep and he'd get up and go go back to work. So, I didn't really hear words of affirmation. Uh, didn't get physical touch, you know, I didn't get that from my dad. I'd live with him 10 months out of the year. I'd go live with my mom two months out of the year in the summer. And she would give me all that. She would, you know, call me King David and God has incredible things for you in store for you and, you know, hug me and just all those things. And I'm a I'm a physical touch and words of affirmation guy. That's my main two ways I received love. So, I just had this confliction non-stop growing up uh as a teenager. And then um at 16 years old, my dad gave me a beer. I had already been drinking, but he's like, "You're 16 now." I gave me a beer. And then between 16 and 17, I realized that I could uh I got into the party scene. I realized I could make some money selling what was what was readily available in uh Reading, California. And it was mostly weed, but there was a lot there was crank, there was mushrooms. Um, and before I knew it, I had a pager and it would go off 50 to 100 times a day for people wanting, you know, whatever I whatever I had. I was a guy at the party wanted to everybody wanted to be around because if you're close to me, then you just get stuff for free. I'd sell it to everybody else. I uh I definitely battled a lot of internal turmoil being half black, half white in red in California, predominantly Caucasian uh part of Caucasian town. And the black kids there didn't really like to hang out with me. And so most of my friends were just white and I didn't really see anything wrong with it. It's just kind of how it was. But um but I definitely felt alienated from the black community. So I'm dealing with that. I'm dealing with my own internal battles. I'm dealing with uh, you know, my mom not being there and my dad, you know, just really telling me he loved me if it was like a birthday or holiday or something. And so I just had that dilemma and identity crisis as a young man. Then I got into drugs and I'm selling drugs. And then I at one point I had like five girlfriends. Uh, I didn't like to sleep with them cuz I was very timid. But if I could get them to like me, then that made me feel better about myself. And then uh and then I met this girl Jennifer and um she was 15 when I met her. I was 17. and something was different about her and I kind of cut the other girls loose. Really liked that girl. And then October 9th of 1993, I'm 18 now. Her mom was supposed to go to a church retreat all weekend. Uh not are you familiar with Bethl Church in Reading? >> Yeah, of course. >> So that's where that's where she was going. That's where her mom was going. >> Her mom was supposed to be gone all weekend, go to this Bethl church retreat and it's Saturday night. She's not supposed to come up till Sunday. So, I got over to my girlfriend's house, uh, had a bottle of wine, I had some weed, and her mom comes home. Like, we hadn't even started doing anything yet. We probably would have, but her mom came home, and her mom was super protective. >> Like, that's her only daughter. She's a single parent. You know, you have no business in her room in the daytime, let alone at night. >> So, her mom comes in and we hear her come through the door and we're just thinking, "Oh crap, it's about to hit the fan." and she opened the door and she said, "What's going on?" Jennifer said, "Well, we're just hanging out." And her mom said, "Well, is she staying the night?" And we're just like, "Are you kidding me? She's asking me if I'm staying the night." And Jennifer said, "Yeah, he was going to." And then her mom said, "Well, are you least going to go to church tomorrow?" Which neither of us have been going to church, but my grandpa was a minister. Church of God in Christ, full gospel, black church, you know. >> And I said, "We can go to my grandpa's church." I think the only reason I said that was to try to earn some brownie points. Like my grandpa's a pastor. Don't kill me or shoot me or whatever. So she said, she said, "Okay." And she shut the door and let me stay the night. We only know now, we know now that it was a supernatural peace from God because the next day I woke up and I used to wake and bake. Wake up and start smoking weed. Wake up and get baked. >> And I started drinking and I didn't do either of those two things that morning. And so she made us breakfast. We went to my grandpa's church and God had my number because as I'm in this little church, 100 people maybe and it's just black choir just getting down and then somebody would stand up in the audience and they would just start testifying what God was doing in their life and the choir would go crazy, church would go crazy and choir would go back to singing and somebody else would stand up and this just kept happening and it was becoming evident to me that God was real which I had a spiritual background as I grew up. But when my parents divorced, I didn't go to church anymore. So all that was it was was foreign to me. But as people are standing up and testifying, it's becoming evident to me that God is actively working in people's lives. And not only am I doing the devil's work, my pagers on in church, which didn't go off one time, and the church service lasted three hours. Not only am I doing the devil's work, but I'm missing out on God having anything to do with my life. And then the church mother stood up, 80some year old little black lady. She stood up and she said she went to the window and she saw a big clock in the sky and she said the hands were winding down and she said, "Time is running out and people got to get right. Time is running out and people got to get right." And Kyle, I just broke. I started crying like here I am 18 drug dealer paged on been through some stuff and I'm just crying. It's becoming uh it's just hitting me that not only is God's grace and goodness, you know, he kept me and covered me, but he was just wooing me back. And so I just stood up and I said, "I'm just glad I'm still here after 18 years." I had friends that were had gone to jail. I had friends that had gotten hurt in bad drug deals. I said, "I'm just glad I'm still here after 18 years." And Kyle, the spirit of God just flooded me. Like I was I've been high on some things. I'd never been high on anything like this. And I literally took off running around the church and you had to run out the back door and come back in the other side. I did that three times. I ran around the church. Felt like a thousand tons of weights lifted off my shoulders. Things visibly looked different. Everything looked crisper and clearer. Like the scales fell off like we hear that that happened with Paul in the book of Acts. Everything looked clearer. And I could hear God's voice say to me, um, you know, I love you. Just I could feel his love and I could sense his love. And so I get back to my seat and I remember thinking, I can leave everything in this world behind to chase after this love that has just captured me, but what about this girl Jennifer? I really like this girl. And I heard God say, "Don't worry about her. Just keep loving on me." And so I just kind of let go of that. But when I did turn and look at her, she had her hands raised and she had tears streaming down her cheek and I heard God say, "There's your bride." So that was October 10th, 1993. We got married April 17th, 1994 and just celebrated 32 years of marriage. >> Congrats on that. >> Yeah. >> And so I mean obviously a crazy set of circumstances to even get you to that place. And so would you say like on that day that's when you gave your life to Christ or was that kind of >> Yeah. Reded? It was a rededication. Yeah. I found out later in my mom's baby book that she had written when I was 7 years old that I had gotten filled with the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues came with that. I didn't have any recollection of that. But when I got baptized in the Holy Spirit again on that day, tongues just came right out of me. It just it just it just started bursting right out of me. I didn't have to try to do anything. It just came out of me. So, it was like a it was like a realignment with my spiritual identity with who who I was, who God created me to be. uh which I think we're all called and created to to walk in the full gifts of the Holy Spirit of and tongues is one of them. But um it was like a realignment and it was a beautiful thing. My my girlfriend at the time, she fell in love with Jesus all over again. She had a a background in faith and in church and she'd fallen away and she was dating a drug dealer and she knew it. We were partying on the weekends and during the week and whatever, but um we both rededicated our lives to the Lord on that day. >> So, and we got married 6 months later. >> Okay. So, I mean that's a pretty quick transition from, you know, >> technically single drug dealer to, you know, now married guy, but I mean with most people's stories, it's it's typically not always up and to the right. There's there's some, you know, ups and downs and some left and rights and all that kind of stuff. And so, >> we were kids. Like, I was 18 and she was 16. We got married. >> So, we're still kids. you're seven years away from your brain being fully developed. And so we're basically all at that age, all of us are just operating like, you know, pretty highly evolved chimps, but still got a ways to go is kind of what it ends up feeling like, especially when you look back on the decisions you were making back in that day. I think all of us should be a little bit embarrassed. But I'm just curious for you like in terms of your faith journey. >> Yeah. >> Okay. There are people that get whipped up. You know, I've seen people that, you know, whether it's church camp or whether it's like they go to a revi revival or they they go to like a church for the first time in a while and there's something that happens that kind of whips them up. Like maybe it's the worship. Maybe it's a word from the preacher like something and then you know they get all whipped up >> and then they leave and then they settle back down and you know the you know their brain settles back down to the to the mean and all those things and whatever they said they were going to do and whatever things they said they were going to stop doing and the service that they were going to dedicate to you know the gospel and God all that kind of stuff. It just goes by the wayside. It's kind of like yeah you go to church camp you like you're you're falling out. You're like oh I just can't believe it. like I'm going to share the gospel with two people and then they're going to share with two people and then all a sudden the world's going to be saved within 3 weeks and then it's Tuesday and you're in third hour and you forgot your homework and you know just things start you know falling back in place how they they were before. Yeah. >> So what was your trajectory like from that moment in terms of like your walk your relationship with with church with ministry >> it changed overnight. It was a it was a true bornagain experience. It was Colossians I think 1:9 says plucked out of the kingdom of darkness and transplanted into the kingdom of light. That's what it was. It was immediate and I was hungry for it. I didn't want the life that I had. I didn't want to go back to living the way that I was living. After I had tasted to taste and see that God is good. When I had truly tasted his love for me in my spirit and in my soul, nothing else mattered. I didn't care what anybody thought of me. I was going headirst into finding out more about this God that loved me so much in the middle of my sin drenched life to reach out to me in in church that day, reveal himself to me in such a loving and powerful way. And a bonus was just to have him reveal to me that this is who I have for you to be your your spouse, your mate. So, it was a it was a drastic change. I remember actually I was like, "Well, I need to throw all my drugs away." And then I I had a pipe that I I would smoke out of and I would never smoke the resin in the middle of it because that was I'd like because that was like a cherish thing, you know? It's like the resin is get you really high. And I I remember for a split second I was like, "Should I throw this pipe away?" And I asked Jennifer and she's like, "Throw it away. What do you want it for? What are you talking about?" And and that was like it. I didn't even want to smoke it. It was just the act of actually getting rid of it. Um and it had a ripple effect. the c my I was staying with my cousin and uh he had his own house and he gave his life to the Lord like a month later and I was just a evangelism machine. It's like I just I just had to tell people about this God that loved me so much that revealed himself to me and how much he loves them. And so I would witness and I would share and I would talk about Jesus and I would pray with people like we did at lunch. You know, you were very quick to hey pray with the with the with the waiter. And uh it was it was it was non-stop. It was non-stop. And that trajectory lasted probably it was probably two or three years until you know the enemy he's patient. He'll wait. And you know I I I would uh I would I've had I forget the initial I mean this is going 30 plus years ago. I forget the initial thought process but it was you know something that made it feel like you know maybe I could just have a drink, right? And that's been my Achilles heel through my whole life. And that's where the enemy will start. It's always in a thought, right? Take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ. And that's where you have to start because every thought in your brain is not yours, >> guys. And if you haven't memorized 2 Corinthians 10:5, that's one of the main reasons why you have to because whatever your whatever your predelection, whatever your flavor of sin is, like that is one of the things that will help crucify that sin and put it at the feet of the cross. But if you don't take the thought captive, it could take you captive. >> Yeah. Cuz if you don't realize it's not you, >> then how do you fight it? >> That was put there, right? >> How do you fight it? >> That's right. >> Like we're spirit beings, >> right? We're we're spirits wrapped in a meat suit, >> right? >> And our senses, our five senses are everything in this natural realm. But we are a spiritual being. And our spirit is picking up just like any, you know, antenna is picking up all the waves, all the antenna waves, all the waves that are going through this room right now. We don't pick it up, but an antenna will pick it up. It'll display a TV show. Yeah. >> Or a radio program. >> Yeah. And so for you, you're you're dealing with that. We're spirit beings. >> Yeah, >> all of us. So, we could be picking up stuff that's in the supernatural realm that we don't recognize. Well, wait a minute. That's actually not from God and that's actually not myself. >> But every single person could have, who knows, two to 10 to 50 enemy, fallen angels, evil spirits that are tasked with following you. Victor Marx is big on this. >> Tasked with following you. And their whole goal is John 10:10, the thief comes not but to steal, kill, and destroy. That's their whole mission and that's that's all they're alive to do. That you're their assignment >> and they're going to follow you every second of every day and they're going to wait until you just open the door. Give no foothold to the enemy. If you just open the door to the enemy, they will they will come in. They will pry it open and they'll keep coming. So for me, alcohol was that door. And I I opened it up to I opened up the door to alcohol. Um and I don't even remember why I did. I didn't have to be a things are so horrible, I need a drink. I could get to a point where it was like, man, things are just so good. Like, why can't I just have a drink? Like, I just enjoy it more, right? Was the lie for me. And slowly that would turn into more drinking. And slowly that turned into it turned into partying. And so, we fell off, my wife and I both, we fell back in, you know, back into the partying lifestyle until one day I was watching Sister Act Two. M >> I love how if God can use a [inaudible] literally in the Bible, right, with Balum, he used a literal donkey to turn around and talk to Balum. If he can use a donkey, he can use a movie, he can use a song, he can use he'll use anything he can he can and wants to because he's sovereign. He's God and he can do what he wants. >> But we're watching Sister Act Two and Lauren Hill is singing His Eyes on the Sparrow. >> Yeah. >> Incredible. >> And that was a song. It was a song. It was a similar song to what my my dad's my grandpa's church they'd sing. And she was singing that song and God was just speaking to me through that song in that movie. And I just felt like how far away I was from God. I was like, "How did I get here?" Right? Don't give the the devil an inch. He'll take a mile. He'll make you stay longer than you want to stay and make you pay more than you want to pay. And that's that's playbook what happened. And so my wife and I went back to church. We had we were going to my grandpa's church. We had then started going to Bethl church. This is before they blew up. Like they're, you know, global now. This is way before that. Pastor Bill wasn't even there yet. Uh the senior pastor at Bethl. But uh we had been going to Bethl. We hadn't been going when it was when we were partying because I was never a I couldn't party on the weekend to go to church on Sunday. I was either in or white. It's in or out. It's like black or it's hot or cold. >> But we got back in church and laid everything everything else down. And uh it was an it was another good solid season of 2 or 3 years. But I battled that addiction of alcohol for probably for probably 20 over 20 years. It would just come back and rear its ugly head. And God is so good and so faithful. He won't give you more than you can handle. But he also won't give you I don't believe that he will give you more than your character can handle because I firmly believe that he would keep certain doors from opening in my life because I would have ruined it while I was battling those while I was going in circles and of addiction and and uh and recovery. And so when when we were when we were following him and we were we were faithful, things would go well, things would progress. I had a great job. I started my first company when I was 20 years old. We were doing 2 million a year in sales by the time I was 22. 22 years old. I've got 200,000 bucks a month plus going through my bank account every single month as a sole proprietor business, a small business. Uh I'm writing big fat tithe checks. I'm big in tithing and giving. I'm writing big gift check giving checks and tithing checks. Um and then I just hit that it was it was the same. It's funny actually recounting it because it was kind of the same thing. It's like man, I'm doing so good. Life's going so good, I can have a drink now. I can handle it. And then that would have slowly eventually turning in turn into me buying out the bar. Literally buying out the bar. My my job, my company as a as a business owner. I'd wear a suit. I had salespeople. I had a telemarketing department. And I'd wear a suit to work. Sometimes I'd just go right to the bar afterwards and everybody call me the mayor. I get the accolades of man and all that crap. But um I would just always come back to, wow, I'm just a I'm just a pig in the sloth of what the world has to offer and I'm totally missing what God has. And so it was literally until uh and my wife and I went through ups and downs. We went through uh two separations where she just realized she's like, "You you just you can't keep doing this. Our kids are growing up. We had you we had our first uh baby girl 2 years after we were married, second baby girl 2 years later. So, we've got uh little kids that are growing up and uh there would just be, you know, the straw that breaks the camel's back, right? I' I' I'd leave for I'd leave for um I think one time I left to go to Taco Bell and somebody called me when I'm on my way to Taco Bell and my wife wasn't home. I don't remember where she was at, but she was out for the evening or whatever. And so, I left to go to Taco Bell and then somebody else text me and they were like, "Man, I haven't seen you forever. You know what? stop by here real quick. And it was at a bar and I was like, I can stop by there really quick. 8 hours later, I'm home puking and peeing on the floor and my wife and kids find me the next morning and she's just like, I'm done. Like, I'm done. But that's how that's how that addiction was for me. And so, we were separated then. Uh God was faithful to uh give her grace to after probably several months to come back and uh but it was hell. It was it was a lot of ups and downs for a lot of years. And then um in 2018 I went to uh RTF, Restoring the Foundation, and they actually look at what we battle. The Bible says the sins of the father are passed down to the third and fourth generation. So they would actually look at it was an engineer that created this that came up with this um this curriculum and a program and it was a download that he got. It's like a NASA type engineer. He gets this download and he's like I need to create this curriculum and it was originally for for leaders and pastors because where do pastors go when they are battling something? >> It's like who are they going to tell? >> Yeah. So that's why it was designed, but it opened it opened up to anybody can can join in this. But there was a it was a 15-hour course and it was a systematic walking through of what your parents dealt with sin issues, your grandparents and your great-grandparents dealt with because you're the fourth generation from your great-grandparents. And it was crazy to me how many of my my in my lineage battled alcohol. Like my mom's dad died of alcoholism and he had all he had done all kind of stuff just stupid stuff being drunk and it was it was prevalent in my family lineage. Um they would they would break things off like you know if if if somebody had Masonic uh you know any kind of masons in their lineage sometimes they they like dedicate the children and the children's children right. >> Yeah. to something that's occultic practice. And so it was like nothing loud and flashy, but it was 6 hours one day, 6 hours the next day, and 3 hours the last day. And on the third day, it was it was casting out. It was it was making uh making declarations and cancelling any agreements with all the stuff that they had compiled over the first like 12 hours of us going through this process. And when I left that place was the first time I literally felt like a perfect example was how I felt. I get to the airports. It was a it was outside of Seattle going into this. Um I was still battling alcohol stuff. I go to the uh restaurant and have a drink after I went to the six-hour deal. after the last day of them actually doing the deliverance type stuff, just again nothing loud, just declaring the word, cancelling any contracts, cancelling any agreements with a litany list of of things that I may or may not have agreed to or connected with or or bound with. Uh the big premise was ungodly beliefs. Like what what beliefs do you have that are ungodly at a subconscious level? Because if you have a belief will dictate and drive your behavior. And so when I went through this process, there were 13 ungodly beliefs that I held at a subconscious level that I didn't even know I had. One of them was I make bad decisions. >> Where does that come from? And they're like, "Well, Holy Spirit, where does that come from?" And then we just sit back and wait. And Holy Spirit would just show me it's from when I told the judge I wanted to live with my dad. Why? because I felt so much resentment my whole my whole childhood and teenage years of not feeling loved the way that I designed to receive love. But my mom would give me that love when I go see her. So I had so much resentment against my dad because I he didn't give me that love. And that's one thing. I mean every child needs to feel loved growing up. And so I actually held myself responsible for telling the judge I wanted to live with my dad. >> How in the heck am I supposed to know that? How's how is anybody supposed to know what they've got at a subconscious level and what's the root of it is? So that came to the surface and then the second part of that is okay Holy Spirit what is the truth because a lie is always well it's always opposite of the truth but it's always in place of the truth and if you believe a lie you empower a lie. So the truth for that specific issue for myself was kind of an obvious one but God's sovereign. He knew the judge was going to ask you where you were going to go. And ultimately, God wanted me to be with my dad because it was better that I was with my dad through those years than had I been with my mom. Well, part of else what I what I found out was that my mom was battling some her own demons, alcohol and partying, and she was leaving us at the babysitter for way too long. I didn't know any of that at nine. I didn't know any of that till I went through this process at 40. So there was 13 of those ungodly beliefs that I held. The second one was the women I love the most and need the most will leave me. And that was from being separated from my mom and me feeling like I needed my mom's love. But she wasn't there when I was getting reprimanded and disciplined from my dad. And I had a stepmom that I didn't get along with very well. So 13 of these ungodly beliefs were all exposed and God brought the truth of the reality of what all those ungodly beliefs were were were driving me and causing me to create. Which is why I went around in circles. So many circles. So many circles. How are you going to ever consistently make good decisions if you actually believe at a core subconscious level you make bad decisions? >> You're not. >> Yeah. >> You're beholden to it. Period. So when I left that RTF the last 3 days of of renouncing and cancelling agreements and and all those things, um I went back to I already had all my stuff cuz I checked out of my hotel. I dropped off the rental car. I got on the shuttle to go to the airport. And you travel >> Yeah. >> You know the feeling you get when you're you left the house and you're on your way to the airport or you're at the airport and you realize you left something behind that you actually really needed? Yeah. >> It's like a sinking feeling, right? >> That sinking feeling hit me in the shuttle. >> I left something. >> Like I knew I left something. >> I did a check. Bag check, laptop bag, my sunglasses, my phone, my wallet, my water bottle. I have everything. And Holy Spirit said that was the baggage you left. Literally the spiritual baggage that I had been carrying got left behind and my mind was clear. I didn't have any I didn't have thoughts of when can I be at the airport to go am I going to have time to go hit a bar and get a drink before I get on my flight. All that was gone like that. Gone. That lasted about two and a half years. And then uh my wife wasn't at this on the same plane at that point. Um, we had a blow up and then I went and saw Victor and then Victor's the one that expounded on like he his he calls it the freedom prayer. I actually just did a video for his documentary on it. But in his freedom prayer, he'll walk a person through literally allowing whatever demonic forces, fallen angels, all they are is demons, right? fallen angels are assigned to you to try to keep you in bondage or keep you chained. They have to identify who they are by name and how many they have underneath them. He's got he's got a prayer to get to the top person. He got to the top person, the top entity, the top demon, fallen spirit, fallen angel, whatever you want to call it. And when it came to how many other demons were in his control or underneath his underneath his uh his realm for me, how many are assigned to me? There was 50 50 evil forces, demons, fallen angels assigned to me to knock me off track. And then when he again, he's just praying. It's nothing loud at all. It's not like some loud prayer. It's just the word. There's power in the spoken word. Period. And when he would pray and uh cancel those things from interacting with me uh or chasing me, following me, having any having any access to me uh during this prayer, it felt like my whole body was on fire. Literally, I was just laying on a bed and he was sitting next to me and he was just speaking and whole body felt like it was on fire. Um that was in uh that was the end of 2020 and I haven't been the same since then. Never touched a drop of alcohol since then. U have been clean and have felt that that newness of life so to speak. Um ever since then. So it's been almost six years or Yeah. Well, yeah. Almost six years. November. >> Yeah. What would you >> So that's the that's the backtory. I don't know if you want it that much, but I give it to you. >> I'm I'm good to to get into all that stuff. like at this table there's there's nothing off limits. But the thing I'm curious about is, you know, even here recently I was listening to Philip Anthony Mitchell talk about some different things and he was talking a little bit about his his childhood and um just different things that he was going through and there was kind of like a through point where he almost always feels trying to think of the best way to describe it where he almost always feels like hey the other shoe's about to drop or hey God's not going to be able to use me in a great way. I'm I'm only going to be able to be this good. Um God's only going to be able to you use me this much. And it was like I don't you know call it a spirit of diminishment. Call it just you know lack of confidence or something like that. But for someone who's done some amazing things for the kingdom and is you know built a big church and built a large following. I mean he doesn't seem to be a guy that you know worships at the altar of numbers uh and and but I mean the numbers are there. But I kind of feel that same way to where it's like, okay, the other shoe's going to drop. So, so for me, I've never been pulled toward the chemical. So, I remember being around kids that were drinking and getting high like in school and I'm like, y'all are morons. Like, what is wrong with you? Like, and I don't like the feeling of of not feeling good. >> Yeah. >> And so, like when people get so drunk that they feel bad like physically and they throw up or they they can't control themselves, like I don't like that feeling. never touched weed or any drug or anything like that because like the pitch isn't good to where it's just like, "Oh, hey, you'll take this, you'll be super paranoid, you'll be like off in La La Land maybe with this one, but then you'll come back and you'll regret doing it and then you'll just do it again." I'm like, "Okay, well that sounds awful. I don't want any part of that." >> But for me, it's it's more sensual. It's sexual. And so, like, you know, you know, when people use addiction language to things that are not chemical, it's like, "Okay, you have a proclivity." Like someone that's addicted to pornography and masturbation, if you lock them in a room in a in a straight jacket where they couldn't touch themselves or view pornography, they're not going to they're not going to combust. They're not going to die. Yeah. It's just something that they want to do. It's a self-medicating thing for any myriad of reasons. But the point I'm making is >> Well, do you think there's a spiritual component behind it, though? >> Of course. Of course, spiritual component behind it. Um I just think when people I think people overuse the addiction language. Oh, this person is addicted to that. It's like, no, no, no. They just keep choosing to do that, right? Yeah. That's like they keep making choices that lead to bad behaviors that they just rinse and repeat. >> Well, I think it even goes to a deeper level than that because I think that an individual >> uh again, if they're if they're saying they're addicted to it and then what is the thought process in their mind? >> It's the agreement you just talked about. >> Exactly. That's right. If they are if they are giving or making agreement with it at at any point subconscious level in their mind, you know, one day I'll stop or whatever, then they're giving access to that thing to uh to keep them bound quote addiction. >> Well, it's not always bound. Yeah. It's not always super nefarious either. Like someone will make an agreement like, "Oh, hey, you know, everyone in my family, we're always late. We're late to everything. We're just late." They just made an declaration >> because if that person that's fourth generation late, if I said, "Hey, two o'clock today, I'm gonna meet you in the McDonald's parking lot. I've got a briefcase, a million dollars, free and clear. >> They're going to be there early. >> Just can't be late, you know." Exactly. It's like they always seem to make it on time for stuff like that that they find to be important. But the point I was making >> is pornography and masturbation hasn't been part of my life like I can't remember. It's like 16 or 17 years. It's like of of like freedom from that. But I can say honestly for me, and I've said it openly and honestly, I feel the tug of it all the time, right? No pun intended, but I literally feel I feel like I'm one weak moment in decision away from going right back to doing what I was doing. >> Now, you could look at the track record and say, "Bro, like you're at you're coming up on two decades. Like, why are you still worried about this?" But uh I don't want to ruin anything because this will come out before that. But I interviewed Chuck Swindoll uh before two uh not that long ago. He's in his 90s. He's been married for 70 years. He's been in full-time ministry for over 60 years. You don't think Satan's still getting after him? You don't think it would be an amazing thing for the kingdom of darkness if they were able to take someone out that late in the fourth quarter and get them to basically sully their name in the last moments before they they cross over. I say all that to say like I'm I'm curious for you because I mean you kind of laid it out there. It was big emotional experience, spiritual turnaround, two two and a half years goes by, you know, we kind of get relaxed, >> the discipline waines a little bit and then we start dipping our toes into the places where we know we shouldn't be dipping them. >> Y >> now it sounds fundamentally different what you experienced about six years ago. Do you personally feel any of that fear of, "Oh gosh, I'm one." Sure, I'll I'll have a drink with you away from like completely falling out into that lifestyle again. >> No, my main thing is uh again, fueling myself and being aware um in the Bible every single day, prayer every single day. Uh I try to worship. My worship time is actually in the shower. I turn on my worship music. Um, which is a little different than the the Spotify playlist that you have on your Instagram. >> Yeah. A little different. Little different. >> Not nearly as awesome as my playlist, but yeah. Go ahead. >> Hey, however you get into God's presence. Just get into God's presence. >> Can I take a quick little side note? Please do not lose the shower worship part. One of the big things for years, David, is I didn't grow up in church. I didn't grow up around church music. Like I was always drawn to heavy stuff, heavy metal, like really raw hip-hop, that kind of thing. So, as a 15-year-old, you become a Christian, then you go to church, you're like, >> "Oh, no." Cuz like that's that's in the era of burn your secular music, break all your Slip Knot CDs, definitely don't listen to Tupac, like all that kind of stuff. >> And then what you're left with is just some of the worst music maybe ever created, >> comparable. Yeah. >> The least creative, >> the the the It's very singable. Like, it's very like easy to memorize. >> Yeah. And it took me a long time to get here because it was like, you know, you feel like something's broken inside of you because you listen to Christian radio and you're like, "All this sucks so much. I just want to pour acid in my ears, but I'm supposed to listen to it cuz this is God's chosen music for some odd reason." >> But then I finally got to a point, I don't know when it exactly happened to where it's like, "No, no, no." Like, there are flavors of worship music, but when people hear worship music, they think CCM, >> Yeah. contemporary Christian music, whatever is safe for the whole family and played on Air1 or Kay Love or something like that, right? Or whatever their church sings. >> And I just I got to a point where I'm like, look, if you like hip-hop, if you like country, if you like folk music, if you like indie, if you like sca, if you like metal, if you like all that, >> there are biblebelving gospel- centered individuals that make that kind of music. Brook Reeves from Impending Doom. A Christian death metal band was sitting in your chair not that long ago >> and it's like it's angry music for happy people. Like these are people that believe in Jesus and these are people that are going into these secular satanic areas on these tours. And guess what? >> Karma's not going to get in there. >> They're in the green room with their Bible open. Brooke was telling me like >> this guy from like this Wiccan band >> like he's watching Brooke for months on tour just go and read his Bible. Well, guess what? one of his buddies gets sick and you know Wiccan stuff ain't gonna do nothing for that. Like paganism ain't gonna do nothing for that. So he goes to my buddy Brooke and says, "Hey man, I don't know anything about this whole God like thing and all that, but just in case that's all real. Would you mind praying for my buddy?" Wow. >> How would that have ever been possible? And and when I if I were to tell you which band this is, you wouldn't know them, but like incredibly dark, incredibly evil, like incredibly satanic band, >> but the guy was drawn to the light because my buddy was faithful. So that's just what the again I want to give that commercial because we get new viewers and and listeners every week >> like just because you don't like CCM that is not an excuse to not worship God through song. >> Exactly. >> You don't get to do that right >> now. We're singing the >> because you're also agreeing with the lyrics. That's what it is for me. >> Right. >> If you are singing with them or if you are listening to them and you're allowing them through your being, through your spirit, soul and body, uh you can't really be listening to it, enjoy it if you're not agreeing with it. Yeah. >> And so that's that's what you have to think about as well is that I'm feeding my spirit man regardless of what I'm listening to. I'm either feeding it life or I'm feeding it death. And if I'm feeding it death, well then I'm feeding it everything that's trying to keep me in bondage or keep me from becoming who God's created me to be. >> And I think it's important as well that that should make you sensitive to the lyrics you're singing because I forget who said it first, but it's you will sing your heresies before you believe them. M >> and so I've told people this before uh cuz I oh I forget who I think I was talking about Hillong >> but it was like uh there was a guy in Hillsong that came out he like faked getting cancer or something like that so people could you know feel bad for him and all that and then you know he deconstructed but the reality was is he was never a believer he just made Christian music >> and so when people tell me like oh I don't listen to secular music I'm like okay so who do you listen to and they'll name some bands I'm like you think everyone in the band's a Christian a follower of Christ >> right the basist, uh, the road crew, are they all Christians? What about the producers that recorded the music in studio? Are they all Christians? The management, are they all Christians? All the people at the label, are they all Christians? >> Yeah. >> Because maybe the only person that actually believes this stuff is the lead singer with the guitar. Everyone else isn't. But you're castigating me for listening to music that sounds angry to you when everyone in the band and everyone involved is a follower of Christ. I'm like, I don't think you get to make that proclamation just because your stuff sounds more flowery. And the other thing is is there are some trueisms in worship. Like there's a reason why we probably won't be singing Brandon Lake or Phil Wickham or Shane and Shane songs 500 years from now. I love all those people. I think they're all spectacularly fantastic. There might be one or two, but look at look at most worship churches like that are really worship driven and on the music 6 months from now they're not going to be singing those songs. And so there's something to things like the doxology to How Great Thou Art to Amazing Grace that kind of like >> cuts through a lot of that. It's because of exactly what you said, which is the truth. So, we're gonna yank the wheel back onto the highway. Let's go. Let's go into you uh into the shower with you. All right. So, let's let's go back to shower your worship time. Let's get into that. >> I love worship and I'm a Bethl guy. Like we uh we I had shared we would started going to Bethl before Bill came. >> Yeah. >> And then uh I remember the first day Bill spoke uh Sunday night cuz our pastor had stepped down and uh this was obviously in a good season. when we were going to church, but uh our pastor had stepped down and our church um uh our church board was like, "We're interviewing who's going to take the the helm of this church." And then a couple Sundays later, they say, "We know who's going to take the helm as a senior leader and he's going to preach tonight." And that night was Bill. And I was hooked because I could I could feel and sense his hunger for the reality of God to impact our reality. uh his first book, When Heaven Invades Earth. And he uh he just he carried such a a weightiness and a revelatory a revelation to the message and to the scriptures and to the Bible um that I was just hooked. And then the worship just started to flood out of that. Like I was in I was in youth group with Banning Leapure. It started Jesus culture. We were in youth group together like before he was banning. We had there was a youth pastor. Um, but when that started to bud and then Bethl music started to flourish. Uh, and again I I don't know for me, not every single song, right? But there are songs that just move you like how great there are, which was one my mom's favorite. And my mom just has a she had a a bare tone that she could just belt that song >> and it just shook. But um, there are songs that are written by people that are filled with God's presence, that are filled with the truth, that are timeless. And I think that's what it is. You know, if there's always going to be people that are either trying to imitate or they're just writing music because they want to write music or because this sounds good or whatever. But there are there are those and there are bands and there are groups that that are filled with God's presence. They're they're they fill their their songs with scripture. A lot of it's actually scripture. It's something out of Psalms, right? >> Or different parts of the Bible. Um but I've just had I've I've had so many incredible encounters with God's presence um during worship. And so for me, I forget how many years ago it was because I used to obviously I used I think most men battle with masturbation and porn on some level. Um but when I had a I had a pretty deep encounter with God, it was probably 2011ish, I think early 2011. And I just I I think Holy Spirit even just said just like listen to worship in the m in the in the bathtub. In the bath, right, in your shower in the bathroom. It's going to be really hard for a guy to listen to worship in the shower and do any of that stuff. That's right. I haven't had any issues with it for for that long, at least 15 years. But but what I have had is some incredible encounters with God in the shower listening to worship. Something about being butt naked, completely bare before God and just worshiping, right? Like David said, I'm going to get more undignified than this. His clothes falling off and everything. It's just something about about just trying to enter into his presence. Enter his gaze with thanksgiving and into his courts with praise. It's up to us to enter in. And I think a lot of men don't understand that we can actually pursue entering into his presence. And there's levels and degrees to his presence, right? John talks about being in the second in the second heaven. And there's like, how do we get there? Why aren't we trying to get there? What does that even look like? And I'm hungry for all of it. And probably because I'm a I'm an all or nothing kind of guy. I'm an my drug life, right? It's like I've gone to the extremes, >> you know? I'm an extreme individual when I when I do something. And so when it's when it's from when it's God, when it's all with God, it's like I want to go. I want to experience. I want to see God. Like Moses saw God face to face, you know, or as close as he could without dying. Like how come we're not seeking that? Where are Where's the men that are trying to seek God face to face? Like I want to see God face to face. I want to encounter his presence into a place that wrecks me. Daniel, when he got in God's presence, it made him physically sick. when he had a he when he got in when he got in God's presence in the book of Daniel, it made him physically sick when he came out of that vision. I I think because our bodies can't handle being that close to God, but there are levels, right? So, I just I just want to see him. So, I have I've had some pretty insane encounters with God um in my shower time, which is I call my secret place time or worship time where it's just me and him. I'm blasting I'm blasting worship music that I feel his presence in. And uh I've had some pretty deep encounters. >> Hey guys, real quick. I know a lot of you train for very specific things. So maybe you've got a mud race coming up, a mountain hunt, a 5K, or maybe you just want to keep up with your kids or you just don't want to let the old man in. But for a lot of you guys, whether you're working out at the Globo Gym, or even your garage gym, you get there and you just don't know exactly what to do. And so you just kind of settle for the same old workout routine, maybe some bench press, bicep curls, a walk on the treadmill, and you know you're not really getting the most out of your workout plan. And I want you guys to stop wasting time at the gym. No more settling. 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Well, I'm curious for you because and you know, we don't have to detour too much, but it it's funny. I know because I mean I've been doing this podcast thing for nine years going on 10 years and so I I have pretty good idea of my audience and that's why like when I enter into interviews like this or when I'm covering someone's book like I'm reading it through their lens because it's like I kind of know what would they ask if they were in my seat and I kind of take and guide them. There are guys in my audience I would say a healthy percentage that hear the word Bethl and it may as well be a cuss word. >> Yeah, I can I can understand that. >> Well and because >> there's a certain segment of the population that anything that's big they hate it, >> right? >> Why? because it's big and people like it, right? So, if everyone likes this movie, well, I don't want to like it. If everyone likes this restaurant, well, I think that restaurant sucks. And it's it's one thing being a contrarian. It's another another thing entirely. So, there are people that just look at size and go, "Size equal bad." I'm not talking about those people. I'm talking about the people >> and and I was there when it wasn't big. >> When it wasn't big, >> I was there before Bill came, >> right? >> I was there I was there when Bill came. Half the church left. >> Yeah. >> Literally half the church left. They would put a ribbon in the middle of the congregation, which was in a gym. The church was in a gym because it was a school >> as well and they put ribbon throughout the middle of the church and they wanted everybody to sit in the front in front of the ribbon. I didn't realize until reading Bill's book, Dreaming with God, that that was because half the church left >> because he was going after the supernatural impacting our world. Like he wanted to see heaven invade earth. His first book, when heaven invades earth. I have a I had my chiropractor who was a Catholic good good Christian Catholic. Good good man chiropractor. He read Bill's book, When Heavens Invades Earth. He got filled with the Holy Spirit, started speaking in tongues from reading the book. It's all about heaven invading earth like it did in the book of Acts. Like, we're still in the book of Acts. The book of Acts was recorded and and the recording of it has been ended, but the work of the Holy Spirit hasn't stopped. It is still actively working. And hopefully, we're actively pursuing and allowing ourselves to be pursued and be used by the Holy Spirit so that what happened in the book of Acts will happen right now. Like that's that's what my heart is. But Bill's has been we want to see heaven invade earth so that people cannot deny that Jesus is real. When somebody witnesses a miracle, when somebody receives a miracle, they immediately have to acknowledge that was not possible except maybe this God that this guy's telling me about. Somebody witnesses a miracle that knows somebody was sick and whatever their whatever their issue is, ailment is from a broken bone to cancer to whatever you name it. When Jesus showed up, he healed all. Bible says that several times he healed all. All that came to him were healed. Demons were cast out. People were healed. They had come face to face with the recognition and the revelation of Jesus as the Messiah, the son of God that came here to set the captives free, heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons. That's the mandate. That was Bill's mandate. Half the church was like, "Nope, I'm out here. I don't have nothing to do with that." He kept pushing. He kept pushing. He kept pushing. And I remember when uh we were at a prayer meeting one Friday night and it was just God, we just want to see heaven move. We just want to see heaven come down. Like just do what you want to do. And then somebody just got filled with the Holy Spirit and they're just wailing and they're crying and they're just like and Bill wrote I remember reading in his book his book later too. I didn't realize what he was feeling or perceiving as it as it was happening even though I was there for it. But he was wanting the Holy Spirit to show up in power in a way that just brought an awareness to his presence and uh and and an awakening to hearts and minds that there's more. God has more. And that just continued to progress and progress until healing started happening. Miracles started happening, blind eyes opening, people getting out of wheelchairs, testimony after testimony after testimony is why Bethl is as big as it is. I think when when people hear Bethl and think to themselves because even they would include Bethl's music in that it's like hey you'll sing your heresies before you believe them. It's in that kind of world hyper charismatic kind of the the name it claim it blab it and grab it like whatever way that you want to couch it. People get very uncomfortable because I know there's a lot of people in my audience that are cessationists. There's are people that are kind of all those different things. When I read scripture I don't necessarily see a expiration date on uh the gifts uh in that way. Thank you. >> But any anyway, I I'm not super firm putting a flag one way or another, and I don't I don't try to I don't try to limit what what God could possibly do. The issue comes >> is when somebody >> gets a move of the Holy Spirit, they get that feeling. They get the whatever the thing is, but whatever they're told to do is contrary to scripture. >> Well, that's not right. That should never be that should never be allowed. That should never be accurate. >> I'm glad you said that because >> it should not be contrary to scripture. Everything that happens should line up with scripture. >> Yeah. They will defend these people that get a new word, a new revelation of some kind, right? A prophet or a prophetess. And then basically they just go with that because this person is spiritfilled, whatever that means. And they just basically go and defend. >> But here's something that's happened here recently cuz I told you at lunch. >> I didn't grow up in church. I grew up steeped in country music theology. My audience knows that well. I explained to you kind of what that is. And the first church I started going to was a Southern Baptist church in southwest Oklahoma, right? And then I kind of have done the uh you know the non-denominational thing for a while. And so there's this thing that happens when uh there's the spirit of God and then the word of God. And it seems like churches tend to try to pick one to focus on. So you're going to have the the high ex Jesus church that just looks at the word exposite. We're going to go word by word. >> You got to have both. >> But they get that's where I'm headed. >> You got to have both. >> But they get into that. And then you have the other side where it's like, okay, yeah, the word, but let's let's just get people falling out in the aisle. like let's push people in wheelchairs and hope they get up like let's let's do all that kind of thing. But the intersection Robbie Gudy, a great pastor out of Nashville, uh he had a recent thing. So his uh shower time, I guess you could call it, he calls it his porch time, right? So spending time on the porch in complete silence with with God >> has revolutionized his church. He said it brought you know >> this revival in his church to baptize over a thousand people in like a seven or eight month period. people traveling from all over the country to come to his church in, you know, Tennessee just to be get baptized. And >> the thing that that he said is, I'm pretty sure he said it, so I'm giving him credit, but he was like he he has his PhD in preaching. He went to seminary like David Platt discipled him for years, right? >> He said he spent so much time and knew so much about a man that lived on this planet for 33 years, but he knew almost nothing about the Holy Spirit that's been with us for 2,000. Mhm. >> And when you go to some of these churches that are a little bit more word church, and I certainly go to one of those. We don't we don't discount the Holy Spirit or any of those types of things, but it's much more exeetical expository preaching. When the Holy Spirit is brought up, it's almost like the crazy uncle where it's just kind of like, "Hey, cool. Hey, Uncle Tom. Yeah, you stay over there. Uh, you stay over there. Yeah, cool. Yeah, I'll come over there later. I'll come talk to you." >> But it's just like, ooh, we don't really know exactly what to do with that. I think some people look at that as they've seen the abuse of people saying they're doing things in, you know, because they got a move of the Holy Spirit in their life or something like that. >> Yeah. >> And so it's kind of hard for people people to parse out, especially men that are trying to set the spiritual uh temperature of their household. They're trying to be a thermostat, not a thermometer. >> And it's kind of hard for them to categorize certain things because even in our personalities, we'll have a proclivity that pulls us maybe more towards spirit movement stuff, maybe a little more towards word. But revival comes when those two things are in concert with one another. Because when the spirit moves, >> but it's not, >> it doesn't comport with scripture. That's not a good spirit. That's a bad spirit. Right? And if you're only reading the word, >> especially if it's contrary to the word, it should never be contrary to the word. >> But a church that focuses on a spirit and doesn't have >> the Bible, then it has no roots. >> That's right. What are they? >> So, what is this what is this going to do? You're going to feel good for a minute and then you're going to go back to doing exactly the same stuff that you were doing before. uh which was another big part of my issue as well. I was I was spirit spirit spirit and I'd read the I'd listen to the messages, but I wasn't diving in daily into my into my Bible. I wasn't growing roots. I wasn't deepening my own personal relationship with Jes Bible study for you. >> I was living so high off the highs I got at church. Yeah. >> That I was trying to let that carry me through. >> Uh but I wasn't growing any roots. I wasn't building any roots. So, you've got to you've got to have both. And when you've got both, then you got a foundation for God to I think really do something through. Well, I'm glad you talked about roots because like charismatic spirit people, they're like, "Oh, yeah, the the word study stuff is just it's it's too pedantic. It's too boring. It's too like structure. It's too rule driven." Then you have the people on this other side that everything is about the rules and then they become the frozen chosen, right? And so there's there's absolutely no movement of the spirit in their life. And you have these people that can explain to you in Aramaic what evangelism is, but then they don't ever share Christ with anybody. Right. Right. or or they they become so Calvinistic maybe maybe like super cage stage Calvinistic where they get to a point where they're like ah they're either elect or they're not like you know an election is straight from the Bible John Calvin didn't make that up like election is right there like it's in plain text but at the same time it's like we have a mandate of evangelism and there are people that will either like well that person's not filled enough with the spirit whenever they get the spirit I'll I'll be able to help it along or they're like I'm just going to go over here and study and drink my IPAs and, you know, twist up my mustache with wax and they don't share the Bible either. And I think I think you're right. Doing the whole like pie in the sky big big happy big passion thing without any roots is incredibly dangerous. But if you're if you got theology and you theology nerd out and all of that, but you never allow for a move of the spirit in your life, I think I think you really will end up struggling. Right. >> Well, and you're and you're missing out. I mean, listen, what did Jesus say? imagine being one of the disciples. You're walking with the son of God, the Messiah. You believe he's the Messiah. You say, like Peter, you're the Messiah, the son of God. You're walking with him. You have an opportunity to talk to him, to look into his eyes, and you're living with him. And then he turns to you and says, "It's better for you that I go away." >> That's right. >> Jesus said that it's better for you that I go away. Why? because then my father will send you another >> helper >> and another helper and he will be with you and he will guide you and teach you into all truth. So for Jesus himself to say it's better that I go so that God will send you another helper. And I I heard it was actually Bill Johnson that I heard break this down. The original uh Hebrew of that word another is like it's it's identical. It's like you're in a chair and I'm in another chair. The the exact same chair. That's what Jesus was saying about the helper. The Holy Spirit is literally like we're we're three in one, right? We're spirit, soul, and body. Well, if you separate your soul and your spirit, it's still you. If you separate your soul and your body, it's still your spirit man and your body. Holy Spirit is the spirit of Jesus. So where Jesus could only look at one person in the eyes at a time, Holy Spirit is everywhere all the time omnipresent and he can look at all of us and speak to each of us individually at the same time. He's God. God the father, God the son, God the holy spirit. So to have a biblical foundation which John in the beginning was the word, the word was with God and the word was God. John 1:14, "And the word became flesh and dwelt among us." Jesus literally was the embodiment, the embodiment of the word of God. We need to have that hunger and that depth and understanding, revelation of God's word. But Jesus said, "It's better that I go so that the the Holy Spirit comes to you." We've got to be actively working to hear and listen and be led by Holy Spirit. >> Let me ask you this. I'm curious because I've u I've been thinking through this as well. And again, I kind of forget who I get all these quotes from, but I mean, I remember someone talking about if you were argued into the faith, right, a better argument will argue you out of it. >> Absolutely. >> But if you have a radical encounter with the risen Christ, >> Yeah. >> and couch that and categorize it however you want, however makes you feel feel good about yourself, but you have this radical encounter, that's when people don't really stray away from it. So that's it's almost like when Peter was like, "Jesus, where else would we go?" >> And then he denies him three times. >> Yeah. And then he denies him three times and then he is restored three exact times. >> Absolutely. >> And then restoration had to happen. But I'm just curious for 95% male audience is what I have. Shout out to the 5enters, the the gals in my audience that are just absolute killers. So they they make every man in their life listen to the show and say, "Just do what God says." >> Great job, ladies. >> But there are there are men that and I'm very careful with this language because I hate the struggle language. I don't know if you've heard me talk about that, but I I've heard from I've heard from thousands of men over the last decade that I've been doing this ministry. Man, I'm just struggling. I'm struggling with alcohol. I'm struggling with porn. I'm struggling my marriage and blah blah. And you know, I finally snap on a guy one day. I'm like, "Brother, you're not struggling because you know what it takes to have victory in those areas? Struggle. >> Oh, you're struggling with your weight. You know what it takes to be in shape? Struggle in the gym. You're just struggling in general." And I'm like, you're you're basically making agreements and you're finding an excuse to lose. Everyone can find an excuse to lose. Find an excuse to win. >> Yeah. But there are honest to goodness there's a disciplehip problem I think in in Christianity at large where even churches that try to focus on it maybe they they tend to still miss the mark. There are men right now that want to be the head of the household. >> They want to hold up their wife as a helpmate made fit for them and prepare her for her day of glory. They want to together raise up their children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. But they're working a job. They're trying. They have they got to do all the things, man, mate. They got to make money. They got to make time for the family. They got to date their daughters. They got to, you know, uh, help their sons. They got to be in shape. They got to be on peptides. They got to take the right supplements. They they got to read the books. They got to read more books. They got to be involved in community. They got to on and on and on. And then if they were to look at their year and try to determine how much time they spent in the world in the word, not Bible verse a day kind of thing where oh they look at it while they're taking a dump in the morning and they just move on with their day. >> When they look at the amount of time they've been discipling someone and also the time that they've been discipled is a massive massive catechism or not catechism chasm >> chasm for these men and I get asked about men's ministry whatever that is all the time. I get asked about all the time like what's the most effective way to do this and blah blah blah. But it kind of breaks my heart because I know what they're actually asking me. They're asking me what is the program we can do that'll change it all. >> Who's the speaker that we can bring in that'll bring forth revival? Who is, you know, what's the activity we can have these men do? How much meat do we have to serve to these men on one meal at one time in history that it will create this disciplehip bonanza inside of our church? And yet none of these churches are asking the correct question which is how can I make this church man friendly? >> How can we make the volunteer opportunities, the ministry opportunities? How can we sing songs that are in a key that men can hit that have that have parts to it where their voice can be represented, not just the guy or the gal with the highest best voice? Uh is manhood and manliness being exhibited from the pulpit? Is that a man that you would follow to battle, >> to literal battle, or is that just a guy that is safe enough for your family to be under his shephering and toutelage? >> Um, and I I love getting people's opinions on where they think men's ministry is right now within the Capitol C church, but also what they would tell men to do that are literally sitting there going, "I don't have any idea what to do. I don't know how to lead my family. I don't know how to study the Bible." And they they look around and apparently there's no one there to help them. I would say every single every single individual period, but every single man for sure. Um that feels like they're struggling is experiencing an identity crisis. >> Sure. >> They don't know who they are. And I'm I'm like I can speak because I battled that for decades. Decades. >> Well, they don't know who they are and they don't know who's they are. They don't know that they belong to somebody. >> Yeah. But the one thing that I'm really thankful for that's even come to the surface more so during this podcast with you, the one thing that I'm thankful for is identifying now I I identify a lot more a lot clearer the lack of the roots that I had >> in the Bible. Uh and early on actually when I first got saved I would actually study I had my markers out. I would spend hours studying the Bible, studying the Bible, studying the Bible. Somewhere I got complacent. I got lazy. I let something else take center stage. And then when the Bible, studying the Bible came out, uh, you know, slowed down, then the temptations rose, right? And so I I'd have this back and forth. But one thing I can honestly tell you, Kyle, that I'm so thankful for is that I've really felt Holy Spirit. Like when I got radically born again, that that experience that's like somebody gets rocked. Like they are this is out of this world. This is nothing in the natural. This is an overflowing and an overwhelming sense of God's love for me. Once you taste that and touch that, that hits you, it changes you forever. Sure, can somebody go off and do stupid stuff? I'm a prime example. I sure did. But I always knew for without a doubt. I always knew that he loved me and that that love was there. Never doubted it. Have never doubted it. Once I once I was filled with the Holy Spirit at 18 years old, had that encounter with God, I've never doubted his love for me, his existence, faith in him, none of it, period. I haven't. >> I know some people say they have they go through this. >> Sure. >> I've lost I've lost both my parents. Um, I've gone through some pretty devastating hardships in business and I've gone through a lot of stuff. I've never once doubted God's existence or that he loved me. I just was choosing to go my own path, honestly. And his faithfulness has always been, he'll bring you right back. He'll bring you right back. And it's, okay, what are we going to build together? What am I going to what am I going to let you drive and build build drive through me, lead me, and let's build something, you know, for others to be a blessing for others. But that's been the one thing that has been my my true north. And I think until a person gets that, they're gonna have struggles because it's like you said, they've got to they've got that argument in their head that they have to constantly overcome. Does God love me? Is he actually even there? >> Yeah. They're not tethered to >> They're not tethered to it, right? Which is why Jesus told Nicodemus, "You must be born again." >> Well, what does that mean in the natural? Go back into my mom's womb and then be born. No. Things are born of flesh are flesh. Things that are born of the spirit are the spirit are of spirit. You've got to be born again. I would say every single person that doesn't feel like they've had a born again experience, a born again encounter, whatever that is for them, ask for it. A and ask, keep asking for it. God, give me that born again experience. Fill me to overflowing. Whatever that looks like. I laugh at people that dance and do this. I laugh at people that dance and do this. But you know what? I don't care. Whatever it is, I want to know that I know that I know that you love me, that you're for me, and I want to encounter you. Ask God for an encounter, and he'll give you one. When somebody truly encounters his presence, which is Holy Spirit, his presence is Holy Spirit. When somebody truly encounters being filled with Holy Spirit, they're never the same again. They may choose to do some stupid stuff, but they're not the same. They can deny him like Peter did. Peter walked with him. He called him the Messiah. He knew who he was. Yet he still denied him out of fear of man. But he still knew. And I love that when Jesus came back and he said, you know, tell my disciples and Peter, tell my disciples and Peter to come meet me. Like he called Peter out by name. He wanted Peter to know, hey, I still see you. I know you denied me. Uh one of the one of the versions of the gospels like Jesus looked at him as soon as he denied him the third time. >> Matthew or Mark, right? Yeah. It's like as soon as the crowed and he denied him again. Boom. And Jesus looked right at him. >> Peter Peter was he was dead to rights. >> I mean, it's it's a brutal verse. >> It's brutal. >> And so then Jesus says says uh I think to Mary, go tell my disciples and Peter uh to wait for me. Like I'm going to go I'm going to go find them. And so then Jesus asked him, Peter, do you love me? Peter, do you love me? Peter, do you love me? There's such a beautiful um revelation in there of God's grace and his mercy to always be there. He's always there to welcome us home. He's always there to w You something you want to read? >> No, go ahead. I'm I'm listening. I was trying to find the the reference you were making. But I believe that every single individual, man or woman, especially us men that are called to lead our houses, we must have that born again encounter with Holy Spirit and just ask him for an encounter. I've had some incredible life changing altering encounters with God that I can never deny ever deny. and through through those experiences and it's like well is it and nothing's outside the Bible like it's nothing happened that was like you know that's anti antithetical to the Bible um it's just an encounter with him that is just like it's just out of this world but you can't deny it >> well and sometimes the encounter is subtle so I was it's it was actually from Luke what you were talking about earlier so this is uh Luke 22 uh getting into verse 60 but Peter said man I do not >> uh know what you were talking about immediately he was still speaking the rooster crowed and the Lord turned and looked at Peter and Peter remembered uh the saying of the Lord how he had said to him before the rooster crows today you will deny me three times and he went out and wept bitterly >> wept bitterly um the the thing I would say as well I'm I'm sure you would at least echo this um there are people that don't have a dramatic conversion story >> and I I go back to this moment I have this coaching program called Dominion and this was a guy that was in team one we're doing a coaching call and he was kind of speaking about himself in a very diminishing way. And this is a very accomplished man career-wise. Uh has a good family, but he's like, "Yeah, you know, I just grew up as a preachers's kid and, you know, I got saved when I was real young. I was maybe, you know, seven or eight years old. And, you know, I just I just don't really have a very, you know, sexy testimony." And for whatever reason, I remember this guy had two granddaughters. >> And I don't know why, but I'm glad I did. I just go, "Hey, man. Do you want your granddaughters to have sexy testimonies or boring ones?" >> Boring. >> Why? Why do you want a boring one? >> Initially boring. I get what you're I get where you're going. >> No. And he his eyes got about as big as saucers cuz he was like, >> "Oh, man." But I'm like, "I'm going to make you tell me. Why do you want them to have a boring testimony?" Yeah. >> Well, because if they have an exciting one, it's probably because some bad things happened and they made some really bad decisions or some bad things happened to them. And I'm like, "Exactly." >> So, it's like, let's not diminish uh whatever cuz some people have that thing where there they were, heroin needles still hanging out of their arm, belt around their arm, there they float above their dead body, all the different things. And that's a near-death experience. I'm not even talking about that. I'm just talking about >> So these people are like that's their radical moment to where they said and then Christ was revealed to me. I gave my life to him. I puoed in the finished work of the cross that he did and they placed my faith into that. >> Some people don't have that >> because I remember uh having my own attack of like faith like in college and I was talking to this guy who was a little older than me and he was discipling me just a little bit. We only did it for a few weeks, but he goes, "Are you going to base the reality of your salvation on a moment or on like a thing that happened?" Cuz I didn't have that crying at church camp experience. I didn't have that radical overwhelmed with sensation, you know, central nervous system breaking down before the Lord type of situation. He's like, >> we can go to his word and know that he is true to his word and it is good. And so my encouragement to to people that haven't had like if you've had that radical like specific encounter, I think that's fantastic. But the Holy Spirit and the work of Christ is still just as done for the kid that you know was baptized when they were 8 years old and and they've just they've believed that um and they they place their faith in that and because I feel like some people >> I mean I don't know if you would agree with this or not. I feel like some people are chasing the feeling, right? So it's almost like a drug uh like a person takes a drug like it's that it's that hilarious Jordan Peterson quote where it's like people ask people why they take drugs. It's the wrong question. People take drugs and the reason is obvious because drugs are awesome. They make you feel good. It's like the real question is why don't you take drugs all the time. But the thing is the law of diminishing returns is the second high is not as good as the first high. So you start chasing the first high with the 15th, the hundth and the thousandth high. Right? And so that's my only caution to people that are that have experienced something very profound in terms of a spiritual movement or have not but want to. It's like that doesn't change what's true for you necessarily. However, absolutely not. >> You will realize that maybe you've been operating with blinders and plugging your ears to the Holy Spirit and it's like, "Ah, don't do that either. Let's pop these quirks out." Like, it may get a little weird in here, but let just let just be okay with a little bit more weird. >> There's there's a couple things I'm thinking about. There's two sons in the prodical story. >> Both equally lost. >> Yeah. >> I just realized that a couple years ago, by the way. >> Two sons, right? >> Uh you don't have to be the son that goes and squanders everything. >> That's right. >> Right. You can be the son that's faithful and right there by your father, but understand that it's all it's all still yours. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> And the father was good to you even though you were only working as onto the father to help yourself. >> Yeah. >> Which means you're equally as lost as the the doof brother. >> Right. And then the second part is again I just want to um I want to live like the disciples in the book of Acts. And the only way that we're going to be like a Philillip that hears Holy Spirit say, "Go stand next to that chariot." And then he goes and stand next to the Ethiopian unic. >> Yeah. >> And he hears him reading in the book of Isaiah. And then he has he realizes there's an opportunity. Hey, do you know what you're reading? >> Yeah. >> And he gets in there and he tells him all about is this is this Isaiah? Is this somebody else? He's like, "No, this is Jesus. Let me tell you all about him." >> Tells him. >> Ethiopian unic says, "Well, there's water right there. I want to get baptized." >> Yeah. Philip goes out and baptizes him. And then what happened to Philillip? >> What happened? >> I mean, >> he trans relocated, >> right? Yeah. He had >> they came out of the water and Philip is 60 miles away in another town. Like, I want all of it. Call me crazy, but I want all of it. God, use me. That's New Testament stuff. But there's there from faith to faith and glory to glory is the other thing that stood out to me. We can have a measure of faith and operate in a measure of glory, of God's glory, of his redemption, right, for our lives. And we've got and we are uh we are exemplifying and and and amplifying his glory through our lives, right? Shine through me. So when people see me, they see you. But it's faith to faith and glory to glory. I want to I want to push the boundaries of what is normal, of what is natural, what's seen as natural, >> what's in the scripture. It's a playbook for what's possible. A Philip had to be leaning on and listening to opening his ears, his spiritual ears had to be open to hear Holy Spirit say, "Hey, Phillip, go stand by that chariot >> and then do it." >> If a person is not, if the person is walking around life, if you're walking through life, it's like at lunch you wanted to pray with him with the waiter and as soon as I looked at him, I heard his mom. >> Yeah. Yeah. I heard Holy Spirit say his mom. And so I asked him because I've asked some people and sometimes there's something happening with their mom or maybe it's their dad, maybe it's their sister. Uh but that's having an ear. Those who have ears to hear, right? I'm trying to constantly be aware that Holy Spirit is constantly here to lead me and wants to reveal things to me. It's like words of knowledge, right? Words of healing, not knowing. There's no reason that we should have known or anybody should have known that. I've got friends that walk in this crazy in a crazy gifting. It's like you got something wrong with your back. You got something wrong with your left ankle. Well, God revealed that to him to them uh to him so that when he asks them, he can pray for him and God can show up and heal him. It's to God be the glory. And that person's life is now forever altered and impacted because this guy that doesn't know me knew something was wrong with me and then said Jesus healed me and I felt better. I got healed. That's the impact that I want to live. That's the kind of life that I want to live. Well, and I mean, so what you're referring to, I mean, it's in it's isn't it so crazy some of the deepest stories in the Bible are like this much text. It's like I mean, the story of like Cain and Abel is like a paragraph, right? But we have the, you know, Philip in the Ethiopian unic in Acts 8. And one of the best one of the best lines is, you know, whenever, like you said, he asked him, "Do you understand what you're reading?" He says, "How can I unless someone guides me?" He doesn't even probably know disciplehip, what that even means in a Christian sanctification journey context, but he had a thirst for it. He was he wanted it. He didn't know what it was called. Um >> he was primed and ready and Holy Spirit knew it. And Philip was listening to Holy Spirit for Holy Spirit to activate Philip to go over here where I've got somebody primed and ready. Uh one plants and other waters, God brings the increase. >> Yeah. And then what you were saying, uh so this is verse 40, but Philip found himself, this was after I'll go back to 39. And when they came up out of the water, the spirit of the Lord carried Philip away, and the unic saw him no more and went on his way rejoicing. But Philip found himself in Azos or Azotus uh and he passed through and preached the gospel to all the towns uh until he came to Cesaria. The thing is >> Azatos is about 60 miles away. I looked that up. >> Yeah. The thing that's interesting about that as well, uh >> I don't know what that looks like. I know what it sounds like. And it's like if God wants to do that and I've heard of that kind of thing happening with people, >> I'm just hungry. God, all of it. all what everything that's in the book of Acts, I want to experience that. I want to challenge other people to experience that. But the only way we're going to experience that is if we are leaning into and constantly aware of the fact that Holy Spirit is with us everywhere we go and he's wanting to speak to us, but we have to be willing to listen. >> And we don't know what our yes is going to lead to necessarily, right? So, I just talked about this recently because I was on a a podcast with uh this was at Saturated down at church 1122 in Jacksonville. And so, Joby Martin's there and uh Jonathan Bluda was there and we were just talking about these different times we'd experienced like, okay, hearing like, okay, stick around for a second. I got someone that you need to talk to. Hey, you go talk to this person. And the story that I said, so I'm in Louisiana. I'm speaking at this event and I am allergic to being late. Like, I hate it. I hate it more than everything. Like, I can count on one hand in a year the number of things I am late to. like I I absolutely hate it, right? And so I'm in a hurry, right? If I'm in a hurry, that means late is around the corner, right? And I don't want to be near near it. So I'm in this gas station. I run inside to get something to drink while my gas is pumping. And on the way out, I hear it clear as day. Ask the gal behind the counter if you can pray for her. >> Boom. >> And you know what I did? I left cuz I'm busy cuz my mom said, "No, no, don't don't judge me yet. Don't judge me yet. Stop. Stop it." >> And so I'm like, I heard it clear as day. Stop it. I don't need to hear your answer. Clear as day. >> I'm getting to the end of the story. >> Was that first though? Was that the first time it was clear as day to you? >> No. No. I've heard heard it before. >> Yeah. I've heard it in other circumstances as well. And And so in that moment, I was disobedient >> and I left. >> Mhm. >> The with every step >> to the truck, I was like, you got to go back inside. You got to go back inside. But with every step back towards my truck, it becomes more and more awkward for me to walk back inside for the express purpose of not buying a bag of Doritos, >> but telling this woman what I feel like the Holy Spirit's wanting me to tell her. Yeah. I mean, I get one leg inside the truck and I'm like, >> "Okay, all right." And so I I get back out the truck and I walk in there. >> And what's really interesting is when I walk back in there and I just kind of do the the whole, "Oh, hey, hey, sorry." like, you know, I come out with, you know, my hat in my hand in my pocket top, but I was just basically like, "Hey, I know I just left. Uh, I know this is going to maybe sound a little bit weird." I felt this overwhelming sense that I needed to ask you how I can be praying for you. How can I be praying for you? >> And like in between her cash register and like the shelf, she had a little devotional >> that she had kind of like put back whenever I walked back in. So, she wasn't dorking around on her phone like doing Snapchat or Instagram or something like that. She had this like little devotional thing. >> Yeah. >> But it was like when I was busy, when I was in my own head, when I was being a narcissist, when I was being selfish, I got to be somewhere. I'm so important. There were a bunch of things that I missed. Cuz when I came in, I She basically said, "Yeah, I'm just trying to make sense of what I'm what I'm reading." And also, I I had seen her. I I handed her my card. I gave her money. But now I noticed some other things about her. M >> she had some marks on her neck >> that looked like she had maybe experienced some pretty negative things. Yeah. >> In her recent past. There were other marks on her that made me think that she had maybe uh hurt herself at certain points. >> Young girl, but you could tell that she was rode hard and put up wet. You know, you could just tell by looking at her like she's young and she's seen some things already in her young life. But I got the opportunity in a very short period of time, right? Because this this story doesn't have a big dramatic ending. There wasn't revival that popped out in this, you know, 7-Eleven in, you know, uh, central Louisiana or something like that. But I I got to minister to this young lady. I I made it to where I needed to be on time, all the things. But if I'm being honest, I've had plenty of opportunities to obey what I knew for a fact was what I should be doing. Mhm. >> And I never remember the times when I went back and did the thing I was supposed to do almost as with as much vivid detail as the times when I didn't. >> Mhm. >> And then I wonder cuz there there are some scriptures in here in this book that will absolutely haunt you. And one of them is like, hey, uh, you were entertaining angels and you were unawares. >> And so I think about that person that I heard clearly, hey, go ask this person if you can pray for them. Hey, go tell this person about me. And I said, ah, I can't right now. I don't feel like it or whatever. It's like, "Bro, is that an angel? Was that the person that I was supposed to share the gospel with? Am I the answer?" This was the point I was making. I think Joby said this on our podcast. He's like, "I bet you that girl had been praying to a God she didn't necessarily believe in. If you're true, if you're real, if you really love me, okay, I'll read this book. Send somebody. Send somebody." I'm freaking getting chills just talking about it right now. Send somebody to talk to me. Send somebody that cares. And how many stories do you know of of individual people that were at the end of their ropes bro? >> Yeah. >> And they prayed that Hail Mary, not Catholic, but that Hail Mary, like let's we got to get this done prayer. And then God sent somebody, somebody that had their yes on the table. They said yes, Lord. Before they knew what the question was. >> Yeah. >> And then they knocked on the door whenever they would have just normally passed by. I heard again Philip Anthony Mitchell recently talked about how he was sitting in his apartment with a shotgun in his lap and he's like he had a fifth of Hennessy and he's like all right I how far into this Hennessy before I'm going to actually have the courage to put the shotgun in my mouth and blow my freaking head off. He didn't say it that way I did. >> But then some lady some gal I forget how she was connected to him. She just walks into his place sees the shotgun sitting in his lap and just sat down next to him and didn't say a word. Right. >> But it was her presence. >> Yeah. and the presence >> and her presence in her >> and that's right. Yeah, that communicated something to him that that is something that had never happened before but it happened now. Why did that happen? Is it because we're all a bunch of highly evolved chimps that figured out language, pants, and fire and all this is random and nothing means anything? Or is there an intelligent designer that big banged this whole thing into existence and here we are however many years later and I sent this woman who said yes Lord >> into your place to save you because I have something more for you. And so I mean if we were putting a bow on this like this whole kind of like move the spirit thing whether you're super into it or you're not really into it that is how we are pushed and moved and those gut feelings and those spidey senses and all the different colloquially you know cultural ways that we describe those things. That is onethird of the godhead trying to communicate to you >> the part that's here >> and move you around to do the things that are within the will of the father. >> Yep. And so that again, that's just my my whole encouragement with this. >> Absolutely. >> And a lot of our, you know, we talked about this briefly at lunch. A lot of our audience, they are conservative politically. They vote Republican more than they vote Democrat if they've ever voted Democrat. But there's this growing thing that this kind of bridges us into the political discussions that is so pernitious. It's the Christless conservatism that we see. We have people that are like, "Yeah, low taxes, small government, you know, immigration law and, you know, whatever, anti-abortion and anti-trans kids." And so, they're checking the same boxes I would check, but they don't have the roots of a belief in Christ that inform why they should do those things, right? They're just as nihilistic as a secular progressive, but they feel more righteous, right? And so it's it's it's like they're covered in the filthy rags that the Bible would tell us are worth nothing before a holy and just father God, right? And so, you know, we talked about Charlie Kirk over lunch. You of course uh knew Charlie well. >> His message, especially towards the end of his life, >> was more overtly Christian than than at any point during during his public life. >> You know, he's asked at one of those Q&As's on campus like, "Hey, you know, if you could give one more thing, one more message to humanity. If you died today, what would be your message to humanity? It was just like, you know, believe in Christ, give your life to him, like that kind of thing. Not make sure you keep voting Republican, right? Hey, be as pro-life as possible. He was all about Jesus. >> Yeah. He had become all about Jesus. >> Couple years been >> But I'm very concerned. >> Yeah. We don't know what the Republican party is going to look like, what kind of splits, and we can probably spend some time talking about that. But this this Christless conservatism that I feel like it just it doesn't lead anywhere good because it's going to lead to piety within the body politic on the right, but it's piety that's based in nothing. So, I'm just wondering what your read is on that. >> People need Jesus. >> Amen. >> They need an encounter with Jesus. They need to be hungry for Jesus. And that's that's in his word. That's um that's a revelation of his love for them, right? I mean, that's the thing that if if politically if uh we've got an open window right now with Trump as president because he's he's very much more so in favor of faith and faith in action and he's done a lot to to open the door for religious causes. But if we get somebody in the Oval Office like a Camala Harris >> uh or a Gavin Newsome >> or AOC or >> any of the progressive left which the Democrats are now pretty much being driven by the progressives. >> That's right. >> The Marxists which is completely antichrist >> the Islamic fundamentalists, the feminists the >> which are all antichrist. >> Right. So it's even more important that we actually are rooted and grounded in something other than just ideology of a belief system, a political belief system. Um we we really do need a revival in this nation. And for somebody that understands uh and sees the darkness and sees the evil for what it is, it's like so many people have woken up, I think, especially since Charlie's assassination. It's like there's real evil. Not only was he murdered, but then tens of thousands of people championed it. >> Yep. Laughed at it, bered bered him, and then threw a lot of a lot of us into the same bucket. Like, who's next? Like, that is just evil. We're in a day and time where people are celebrating murder. >> Yeah. >> Of an innocent individual that didn't do anything, didn't say anything, that's been talked negatively about on, you know, on so many different platforms. Just skewed, right? just twisting words, but then the celebration from the public. If people don't understand that we are in a spiritual battle for this nation, uh then we're definitely uh doomed. But I think that it's waking people up. I've heard so many testimonials from individuals that weren't active in their faith, that weren't active in church, but they said that from that from Charlie and the response that they be they were aware that this is there's a darkness that is seeking to destroy this nation. And so that yes, that means we have to be active politically, but it needs it also means that we need to be growing in our faith and our understanding of what the go what God's word says and a relationship with Holy Spirit so that we can be led by him because we're we're doomed without it. >> I think one one of my one of my friends, Mario Merillo, that I've known for uh decades, >> uh you know who that is, Mario Merllo, incredible uh incredible man of God. Uh anyway, he he said he said Christianity will survive without the United States, >> of course, but the United States will not survive without Christianity. It just won't. There are too many facets uh uh and belief systems that are completely antichrist in nature that are trying to take over this country that if they gain if they gain power uh they will they will put they'll put Christianity and anything to do with organized religion really which Christianity will fit in that bucket um in a category that's supposed to be like Joe Biden already was like the FBI was looking at Catholics and had Catholics Turning Point USA y >> on an extreme extremist list, extremist watch list. So for those that understand where we're at as a nation and how how uh close we are to losing it should be all the more reason why get plugged into a good local church that is biblebelieving that preaches and teaches the Bible. And I say is open to the Holy Spirit because you you you don't want knowledge puffs up. The Bible says it knowledge puffs up. Knowledge can puff a person up, but where's the power behind it? The Holy Spirit is the power to come and actually demonstrate and prove everything that we're saying. The Bible says we've got to have acts of the Holy Spirit moving in our own lives, each of us, all of our lives. So hopefully you're part of a bibleelving church and a church that is open to the moving of the Holy Spirit. When you've got that combination and then you're hungry yourself, God, use me. Reveal yourself to me and use me. And you don't have to have, hopefully you don't, but most people probably have some level or another of some craziness that's happened in their life, but use me and reveal yourself to me in a way that I just know that I know that I know that that I'm with you, that you're in me. Give me an encounter. I I tell people that are listening, if you want an encounter. If you don't want one, don't ask for one. But I I don't know why you wouldn't want to have an encounter with a with a creator of the universe that wants to be and is your father and that loves you, just give me an encounter, Jesus. Give me an encounter. Give me an encounter. Let that be your prayer. Give me an encounter. It could be in the car. It could be at in your quiet time in the morning. You know, I've got a theater room at my house. I love to go in there and I turn on my heating blanket and it's pitch black when I shut the door and I keep everything off and I turn on my Bible app and I just lay back and I just let my imagination take me to what I'm listening to the Bible. It's like I'm watching a movie, but I'm with Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit, reveal yourself to me as I as I spend time in in your word. And I'm letting Holy Spirit reveal to me things that it you just miss them when you just read it. Sometimes you just you read right over it. How many times have you read something a 100 times and you read it and something stands out, right? Holy Spirit bringing revelation to something particular specifically to maybe something that's going on in your life or that he wants you to build upon. It is so important that we have an active relationship with Holy Spirit and that we're growing in it. And I was saying earlier, I think one of the greatest things that I've that's kept me at least moving in the direction to where now I truly have been freed. Feel freed. Don't feel tempted to just go have a drink anywhere. Like I'm not getting tempted to watch porn. I'm not getting tempted to, you know, do this or this or that. Uh I'm hungry and I'm I'm solid in him. I'm filled with God's word. But the the biggest thing I'd say is that I've had that encounter early on that let me know that I know that I know. And that's been my true north. And so even though I've made a lot of really poor decisions throughout my life, I I still feel like I could hear Holy Spirit, especially when I was trying to listen and when I was ready to listen because I I think if you're not ready to listen, he may not talk to you. He's like, why would I talk to you and give you direction if you're not going to listen to it? But when you're ready to listen and open to listen and want to listen, he's there to talk. He's there to guide you and teach you just as Jesus said. And that is what's kept me in my true north. I think that if we have a group of people in this nation, there's plenty. There's plenty in this nation. Uh if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven. I will forgive their s sins and I will heal heal their land. We need our land healed. And if we would just that prayer of uh of uh not Boaz, what? Joab. >> Uh Jabbaz. >> Jabbaz. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh if we would if we would ask God, we're being real with him, ask him to forgive us our sins and turn from our wicked ways. I believe God will heal our land and that's going to look like a revival of hearts and minds. Like you said, your friend, your pastor that's got people that are coming. That is a spiritual awakening that's happening. >> That's exactly what he points to. That's not marketing. >> That is Holy Spirit that is in his house that is revealing himself. Holy Spirit, third person of the Godhead, revealing him himself. And Holy Spirit's role is to reveal Jesus to us. That's the role of the Holy Spirit is to reveal Jesus to us. Jesus's entire role was to reveal the father to us. If you've seen me, you've seen the father. He was constantly trying to reveal the heart of the father to us, which Jesus embodied. So, Holy Spirit should be if we allow him to, he's going to reveal to us the the love that Jesus has. And then through that love, we're going to see the father's love. And the more that we have clarity on that and feel connected and and and partnered with that, it's just it's a strong it's a strong strong bond. It it makes us it makes us struggle less there. Sure, you're going to have struggles. There's still going to be issues. There's still life that happens. There's still things that come up, but you feel tethered. It's a great word you used earlier. You feel tethered to something that's bigger than you, that you know is right there, that's for you, and that all the promises of God are yes and amen. I'll never leave you nor forsake you. All those things are right there. Well, as a as a country, if we don't turn back to the Lord, I mean I mean Roman Romans 1's pretty clear. It's going to be like, okay, you know, I think CS Lewis said it this way where it's like, you know, God tells us like it's that it's his will be done, >> but if you continually reject him, he'll finally agree with you. He'll be like, "Okay, your will be done. >> Go for it. Let's have things your way." Hell is locked from the inside, right? That's I think that's another CS Lewis quote where it's just like, "No, you put yourself there. It's because that's where you wanted to be." When RC Sproul talks about the weeping and nashing of teeth, one of the ways that he talks about is the weeping is from the people that are like, "Oh my gosh, I missed it. M like I thought I had more time. I thought I needed to sold my wild oats. Like I can't believe I ended up here. But the nashing of teeth people that's not just from the punishment they're undergoing. It's cuz they're so angry that God would give them exactly what they wanted, which is eternity, not in his presence, >> right? And so like as as a country, it's like I don't think we necessarily want to want to go that route. >> But the the thing I'm I'm curious about is okay, so we were kind of talking to, you know, conservatives, capital C conservatives in general, right? But then when you get into Christian conservatives, which guys that is the proper order. It's not conservative Christian. It is Christian conservatives. Right? There's not a qualifier that you can put before Christian. There's no such thing. White Christian, black Christian, like you know, Oklahoma Christian. Nope. Nope. Everything is after the word Christian. The problem is >> is and you want to talk about the the small little deceptions of the devil. There are a bunch of people that are Christians. They are Christ followers. whatever denomination they ended up in, they have given their life over to Christ. But they have taken the poison pill and have accepted that, well, I just am not going to bring my Christianity into the public square. That I'm not going to allow my Christianity to inform what I do politically. I'm going to let the political world be the political world. I'm just going to be over here and be about the gospel. Okay. So, my challenge to those people, and I've elucidated it quite a bit before, is just with some questions. Okay. So, are you only you're okay with only atheists running the government? >> Yeah. Right. So people that appeal to no moral authority other than what they believe in their own head andor what the pagan society has collectively agreed upon, you're just okay with them appealing to that authority which is ever changing and ever moving. That's that's what you're okay with. And >> well, no, I I don't agree with that. I was like, well, that's just that's kind of what you said. It's where because if you are not salt and light, >> right? If you are not salty at all, you are only good to be, you know, thrown out and trampled under foot, right? And so it's like you don't want to be salty because it may make people at work look at you funny because it may make people leave you a mean comment on Facebook. It may make people feel uncomfortable with you if you have a political sign in your yard. And I'm not saying that if you're going to be a Christian you need to be a political bumper sticker. But you need to understand what the game is. The game is you are typically given a binary decision. Think about a general election between one flawed center and another flawed center. Yeah, >> but one of those flawed sinners, their policies are going to lead to more human depravity and more violation of image bearsers of God. And the other person is going to lead to a little bit less. My friend John Cooper says it the best way I've ever heard it. It's like both parties are taking us to hell, but one's just a little bit slower than the other. Right. >> Yeah. >> And so your job, again, salt is a preservative. It prevents decay. If you are going to be salt and light, you have to make sure that you participate in the political sphere. Absolutely. So that you can slow decay. >> Especially now, >> but even after I've said all that, there are people that are like, "No, I hear you. I'm going to do the Benedict option. I'm going to go over here and do me. I'm going to make my little enclave, right? I'm going to have my compost toilet, my chickens, and I'm going to do this whole thing, and I'm just not going to be a part of that." And what that could lead to is a man like James Terrier Rico becoming a senator for the state of Texas, right? How's that even possible? Well, I predicted this the moment he beat Jasmine Crockett. I go, "Not only do I think he has a really, really good chance to beat at the time it would have been either been Cornin or Paxton, but now it's just Paxton." >> I said, "Not only do I think he has a really good chance of beating generic Republican Cornin or really flawed kind of crazy Republican Paxton." >> Yeah. Not only do I think he has that, I also think he can run the Obama playbook, which is get elected to Senate, less than two years later, run for president, and win because he's just how dody doy Christian guy. He's he's Christian, so that's nice. >> But then also, he believes all the same progressive ideas that I do. Wow. So, I get to feel moral and justified because he's holding on to the Christian side of his thing, even though it's not even vaguely biblical. But then on the other side, it's like, "Oh, but he's he's nice to the gays and he's nice to the trans kids and he says these things that make me feel good about the immigrant and the sojourer and all these different things." Now, I don't know where any of that stuff comes from. I just know it makes me feel good inside. And that's how a guy like that can not only be senator, but can also be in the White House after Trump. It is scary, but it's also >> really scary. >> And you know why I'm also saying that? Because who is the Democratic front runner right now >> for for the 2028 ticket? Well, they keep going back and forth, but I keep they keep on throwing out AOC, right? >> Uh they don't have a complete front run right now. >> Exactly. Because you have people that are so far ahead trying to do it now. He's been exposed with so much fraud. >> Yeah. Gavin Newsome maybe, maybe not. Kla Harris, maybe maybe not. P, maybe not. AOC maybe, maybe not. Maybe she runs for Senate. Maybe she doesn't even want to run for president quite yet because, you know, she's going to be barely of age at that point. Whatever the thing is, someone like James Terico, what could be a bigger boost to his presidential campaign than becoming a Democratic senator representing the state of Texas, the biggest and most important red state that we have in the union? >> Yep. >> So anyway, I don't want to get too far on the Tar Rico, maybe we can go back to it. The whole point I want you to comment on, I want to get your read on is these Christians that have bought the lie that the shama to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength somehow doesn't apply to politics. Well, Jesus was uh he he abided by the politics of the day, so to speak, and render under Caesar what is Caesar and and under God what is God's. I think Christians in America have a moral obligation to vote, right? Our our constitution was crafted with with God at the center and him mentioned four times in the declaration of independence. uh and I think that if we we also have to understand what is what is growing in this country is Islam and Islam is both a religion and a statehood. They have their own independence declaration of independence. They have their own set of books and policies and it's called Sharia law and as they continue to uh advance I mean I think in 2003 or four there was like 20 Muslims in Congress. Now there's 150. >> There's going to be more >> and there's going to it's going to keep growing. And if you look at history, this is exactly what they do. It's called immigration jihad. And they are using our own policies to infiltrate and then they get into they get into power and once they gain complete control, enough control, then it's Sharia law. >> Yeah. It's called tea. That's how >> and then they will take over. >> Yeah. Teaya is where you go to the Christian areas, you play nice, you smile a lot, and then you just wait until you've gained enough power to where you can cut the head off of the infidel. It's it's it's not an aberration. And it's part of the playbook. >> It's a part of the playbook. And that's it's happening right now in America. So the one really simple way to stop that from happening is for the 40 some odd million Christians that didn't vote in the last election to get off their butts and vote. >> Yeah. >> Period. Midterm elections, your local elections, and your and the presidential elections, the main, you know, the national ones every four years. We they got to vote because one may be a lesser evil. But, you know, to my to my uh in by my perspective, you know, Trump did some massive ma took some massive strides for the pro-life cause, right? He appointed three Supreme Court justices that overturned Roie Wade, something that was about 50 50 years of federal mandated legal abortion nationwide. uh at least he put it back to the states, but it was still a huge massive win instead of a a an okay from the government that it's okay to kill your baby, >> right? >> And that's one massive win. And I'm and I'm a there's a lot of issues, but even if it was just one, that's it for me. >> That's the one. >> Murder babies or not murder babies? >> Yeah. >> If that's the only reason why you vote, go vote Republican. >> Well, you know why? >> Because Democrats are 100% about all about murdering babies. >> Well, and here's the thing that's very important about that. When people when we were talking about at lunch, people are like, "You can't be a one-issue voter." I'm like, "Depends on the issue because what you think about that issue informs most of what the other things cuz who do you know that I always say that >> Yeah. Who do you know that is incredibly pro-life but then also >> uh pro Palestine and pro baby changing the kids and pro all that stuff." No, no. It's it's like an it's like a menu. >> That's what I said for Obama because when it came out, you know, 2007, Obama's running for president. My mom was still alive. She didn't pass. She didn't pass on to glory until 2009. But when he came out to run, I was like, "Wow, a black man could be president." I never had even thought about that before. >> Yeah. >> And then my mom said, and I was kind of excited. And my mom said, "David, just pay attention to how he's voted on the issues that matter to you." And she knows that I've been pro-life my whole life. I think most kids are. You have to learn to not be. >> That's right. >> You're indoctrinated to not be. Every little kid knows that there's a baby inside that belly of a mother that's pregnant. And why would you harm that baby? Every kid knows that. Yep. >> Somewhere along the line, they got indoctrinated, lied to. Oh, it's not a it's not a living being a fetus, whatever. It can't feel pain. All those are lies. >> So, I've always been pro-life. So, when I found out that Obama was in favor of partial birth abortion, late term partial birth abortion, and that he was voted against a bill that would have provided medical treatment to babies that survived abortions. I said, "I don't care what color this guy is." >> Because if that is often his moral compass, what is what else is often his moral compass? It absolutely exposes how they look and feel. It's their perspective. It's their world view. So if baby if murdering babies, innocent babies is a part of their world view, I want nothing to do with that worldview uh dictating how I live my life, the policies that guide my life, the laws that I have to live under. And that is what every single Christian person that calls themselves a Christian, that identifies as a Christian, that says, "I love Jesus," they are forfeiting the opportunity to have any say so whatsoever over who's going to guide and dictate the laws that we're that govern us if you don't go vote. >> That's right. That's that's the thing that's so frustrating to me. Uh you probably tell I'm really chill. I don't really get hyped about really anything. I'm just kind of the middle of the road on just about everything. But the people that lament what's happening in politics, that lament what's happening in society, and there's two groups of people that drive me insane. The people that lament it while supporting it, and the people that lament it without voting against it. Let me explain. So, the people that are like, I can't believe how they're trying to go after the kids and trying to like put LGBTQ plus content in kids content and, you know, how how they're targeting our kids and have a not so secret gay agenda, but they've got Disney Plus. >> Yeah. They go on Disney cruises. They go to Disney World and Disneyland. >> As if there's no other group that makes any content for children other than Disney. >> Angel Network. >> What's that? >> Angel Network, >> right? Angel Network's right there, >> right? And so those people that love, oh, the decay of our society, blah blah blah. Sorry, you're funding the decay of our society. I don't want to hear about it. Yeah. >> And then the other people that, man, they they listen to Sean Hannity and they get real fired up and they listen to Glenn Beck and they get real fired up. >> Have never voted. have never ever voted. I'm like >> to that person it's like why would I ever take your opinion seriously on something political because you haven't done the most basic thing in the world of politics which is to get your butt off of your couch, get in your vehicle, go to a polling place, stand in line, go there, cast your vote, and then just be okay with the responses. I have not I'm not shooting uh 100% out of all the people that I voted for that they won, but I made my voice heard. Yeah. I know that there are men that part of what they died for in defending this country is to make sure that I can go into a polling place and feel the freedom of being able to check a box for this person or that person. Y >> and so those are just two groups of people that I just don't understand. It's like I'm not going to listen to your lament. I'm just not going to take it seriously because you actually don't take this seriously. >> Yeah. >> And then that that makes them even more angry. The thing that's that's also curious in this this time and place that we're living in is the number of voices that are influencing people that are leading people astray because they're not they're not basing anything that they're doing off of truth. >> It's a lot of hearsay. It's a lot of conjecture. I did a long episode early this year or later uh late last year where it was called a crisis of discernment. It was early this year. I felt like we have a culturewide crisis of discernment and there are two main players in this that we talked about a little bit at lunch and it's Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens. >> Yeah. >> Because it's not only that they're just asking questions and that they're, you know, prognosticating and and oh well, what if this were to happen and then they move on to what if this were happen Monday. I'm I'm telling you, I'm about to drop a bomb of all bombs. Don't worry, come back Monday. And when I run into David people that are very smart, they they're moral people, even Christians, some of them. >> I've ran into it, too. >> Right. >> It blows me away. >> And they are bewitched. I told you at lunch when I was interviewing Josh Howard, I thought the word bewitched. Because we were talking about Candace Owens, and he says, "I'm not calling her a witch." And I was like, "Bro, I was literally thinking the same thing. It's almost as if a spell I'm not trying to take this metaphor too far, but it's almost as if a spell has been cast on these people. spiritual%. >> So, I want to I want to get into that because it's one thing to just disagree with somebody's political opinion. Fine. Not everything. Some people think there's a demon behind every bush. Some people think there's two. All right. I get it. Right. >> But then when you see the turn of a public figure like a Tucker Carlson or Candace Owens. >> Yeah. >> Into the lanes they're now finding themselves in. Right. So Tucker super MAGA. Now he's not MAGA at all. Actually, he's not even a Republican. He's going to create a third party. Okay. and he's he's championing El Say by uh destroying Mike Rogers, his opponent. >> And he keeps finding himself in the presence of these people that just happen to hate Israel and Jews. That's interesting. Then you have Candace Owens, you know, she she had her run with TPUSA and her run with Prageru and her run with Daily Wire and the Blexit stuff and you even helped with that. You spoke at some Blexit events. to fast forward to where we're at now, just the slop of what she's done post Charlie Kirk's murder, what she's done to his widow and his family, what she's done to the conservative movement, even recently saying that she doesn't think Lindsay Clancy is is guilty, right? She blames Big Pharma, but it's like, hey, is Big Pharma on trial for murdering those babies? No, they're not. Okay, then shut up. I don't believe you. Okay, but the concern I have for people, these these smart people, they really are smart. They they they are moral. They they do have the ability to to surmise. There are certain people that apparently cause their discernment meter in their brain to just turn off entirely. And as you said over lunch, this isn't just political. It seems very spiritual as well. >> I think it's 100% spiritual. And I think that uh because America has gone through some really dark stuff with COVID, uh the pandemic, absolutely believe it was planned with our trial run of socialism, Americans being duped. I I don't I think it's been a little while since I've seen somebody driving by themselves in their car with a mask on. I think it's been a little while. >> Uh and we are in Oklahoma. >> Yeah. >> But uh I saw that crap in Texas. I've probably seen it, you know, I've actually saw it last time I was traveling. I still see people wearing masks. >> I saw someone in the airport two days ago. Yeah. >> So there a lot of Americans woke up and they're still waking up and they're just [inaudible] off and they're looking for a place to place that rage or that anger or that bitterness, that contempt. And so then they're quick to they're quick to question anything and everything. And so then you take somebody that's had a massive following uh that has a massive following that has been right on a lot of things that was accurate on a lot of things and then they start talking about something else and throwing all this conjecture and throwing all these questions which are basically accusations just wrapped in a form of a question. Um if I say you know I'm pretty sure Kyle Thompson I saw him kill somebody over there. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I saw Kyle kill somebody like he just ran over him in this big old truck, right? It was his truck and I'm pretty sure it was Kyle. Uh I could be wrong, but I think that's an accusation. >> Yeah, that's not just that's not just a innocent, you know, question of something. That's an accusation. So when now add money to that, right? And add and add the kind of money that Candace has made. Candace has made millions. >> Quite the incentive to keep it going. >> I remember when she was six months in, I asked Grock AI. I was like, look at the algorithms. Look at the payout for YouTube. Look at how many how many videos has Candace made on Charlie Kirk or Erica Kirk. How many has she made on total? Look at the total the total uh view count. Add it up and give me a medium run. >> It was 5 to six million. Not counting any of her personal endorsement shoutouts for her books. That's right. >> Or any of other sponsorship things. So when you when you give somebody5 to6 million dollars in six months, they're going to feel pretty empowered by that, right? And there is a spirit of mammon. The Bible says you can't you can't love God and serve money. You can't love both. >> So when you give somebody, there's some power, there's influence, there's money, and there's no spiritual uh component. There's no truth there. They're not filled with the Holy Spirit. They're not being led by the Holy Spirit. They don't even know if there is a Holy Spirit. When I first started talking to Candace and was speaking at her blessed events back in 2019, she was praying to the universe. And I would say, "Candice, why don't you pray to the one that created the universe and we'd have some dialogue and we'd have some talks and then I was excited when she actually started saying that she was reading the Bible." And then she started saying that she was, you know, being more pursuing more Catholicism. And there's a lot of great Catholics out there. And my pas actually Bill Johnson I just listened to. I couldn't I didn't make it to our local church here on Sunday. So I listened to Bill. Bill said he was in Canada and he was in a a Catholic church because uh he just got remarried um and his wife's son was graduating from uh something. It was Catholic seminary or some kind of something but it was a Catholic mass that he went to. And he said, the Catholic priest stood up in front and he and this priest said, "We are called to do the works of Jesus." What did Jesus do? He healed the sick. He raised the dead. He cast out lepers. That's what we're called to do. Bill's like, "That's a Catholic priest saying that." Hey, that is my tribe, right? That's what we should all be doing, seeking to be used to cast out, you know, raised the dead, which I have not raised the dead. I've prayed for people and seen them healed immediately though, instantly. I've seen that before. I've seen God do that before. uh raise the dead, cast out demons, uh heal the sick. So again, I love there's a lot of good Catholics out there. Okay. If if it is just like any other religion though that it's if I attribute my life to living by this certain rule, set of rules and regulations and that's my entry to heaven, they got you got it wrong, >> right? >> And that's I I don't care if it's Catholic or uh Baptist or Presbyterian or whatever it is. The only way to the only way to the father is through Jesus. Period. everything he did on the cross was enough. You can't do anything to add to it. And if you think that you there is something you can do to add to it, then you're not giving what Jesus went through, his his death, burial, and resurrection enough credit. You're still giving it to something else, and that's not going to get you to heaven. So, if that's where we meet, then great. But when she started talking about Catholicism and she started talking about some of the things I would call uh the legalism in it and I I just I sense that something was off. And then a month after Charlie's murder, she starts saying Charlie was actually a closet Catholic and he was praying the rosary and he was going to come out as a Catholic. I I sensed right then that's an antichrist spirit because it's against Jesus. He was all about Jesus. He would tell people all about Jesus. He'd actually not too many months prior to his murder, um he'd said, "There's a I love Catholics. There's a lot of great Catholics, but there's a few things that I have a problem with." And he lab he labeled those things. So for her to try to deviate and draw attention away from who Charlie was promoting, Jesus, well, that is antichrist. It's anti-Jesus, period. >> So I put that video out. She never did uh she never responded to that. And then she has kept doubling down. So when you add that there is no spiritual discernment, there's no truth literally that she's actually speaking uh from the Bible, she's spewing hate and questions and false accusations. Well, that sounds an awful lot like the accus of the brethren to me. >> Yeah. >> Biblically, it also sounds a lot like what Jezebel did. Jezebel used her influence uh more in her beauty or her seduction, but she used her influence to manipulate the hearts and minds of people into doing what she wanted them to do, which gave her greater power and glory. >> Right? >> That's a spirit of Jezebel. So again, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, everything that she's doing and continually doing is is completely exposing what spirit she's of, what spirit she's aligned with. And people will, you know, it's not it's not a It's not rocket science. You can align with with with a spirit, with an ideology, with a with a, you know, with a belief system, but since we are spirit beings and this is a spiritual battle, I 100% believe that she's aligned with a spirit of wickedness, darkness, accusation, and she's getting paid very well from doing it. >> Hey guys, real quick, you may have noticed a lot of companies out there that are advertising and marketing that they're American companies, but guess what guys? all of their manufacturing and all of their jobs are overseas, right? These companies are manufacturing overseas in order to increase their profit margins, but they're allowing globalism to put America and Americans behind. And I've been wanting to partner with an American company with really all across the board, American companies that prioritize American workers, their families, and keep their word. And guys, I have been working with this company for so long. We're going on I think four or five years now. 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It's just an amazing amazing company. So guys, if you haven't already, you need to check them out and support a company that supports Americans. Try Origin out today by going to origusa.com. That's originusa.com. Use the promo code undaunted to get 10% off your order. Again, that's originusa.com. Promo code undaunted to get 10% off your order. So, I certainly think there's there's a spiritual component to this. Um, I think people will entertain spirits or demons with obviously without being even aware of it. >> Because a lot of people think they think of demonic oppression and demon demonic possession as the same thing. >> Which again, if you're in Christ, a you are in Christ, you cannot be indwelt with a demon. That's just not really a thing. But there can be demons that have influence on your life. They can whisper. >> Yeah. They can whisper in your ear and that is an oppression. >> And they will help you lead other people astray. Right. It's kind of a divide and conquer strategy. Like, of course, why wouldn't they do that? But then there's the overt ones cuz obviously the the Candace Owens stuff I've talked about a lot. I'm just shocked at how many people still support her. Like, how many times does she have to be proven wrong? How many times does the evidence uh not comport with her narrative >> if she even had a shred of legitimacy as a journalist? Don't you think that anything she's claimed in the last year that Tyler Robinson's defense team would use at least some of that, their only job is to introduce doubt? Yeah, >> that's what a defense team does. Introduce enough doubt to where at least one juror will not follow through with a conviction, right? So, why wouldn't they throw that stuff against the wall? >> But it's convenient though because see, uh, if they were just listening to Candace, maybe Tyler would be getting off. They're just missing not talking to C. But it's all comes back to talking to and listening to Candace, which is views, >> right? >> Views, views, views, >> views, and influence. Money, money, money. Well, look >> off of my friend's death. >> Right. Oh, horrible. Tragic, >> right? You forgot they were best friends. Um, >> I'm saying my friend. He was my friend. >> Okay. Yeah. I mean, that's what Candace would say is that that was her best friend and those kinds of things. And so, for people to not be able to see it as a grift, it's concerning to me whenever good well-meaning people uh don't they just can't see through the grift. They can't spot the lie. And then there are people where it's like it's it's even more subtle like someone like Tucker who has taken quite the turn since the the Fox News days. Um some of the things that that he's said and done >> like Sharia law is not that bad. >> Yeah. Like you going over to Russia >> verbatim Sharia law is not that bad. >> Yeah. You know, >> are you freaking kidding me? >> Out of nowhere, he seems to have this nice new respect for Russia and this nice new respect for Islam and those types of groups. And again, he's just asking questions. And why can't I just ask these questions? And uh I think it was the New York Times whenever they were sitting down and interviewing him and they said, "Well, you said this. This is this." I never said that. I never said that. >> Yeah. And they they played it for him. >> Here's where you said it. >> But but the gull >> and the nerve to literally have someone say, "Well, here's the quote. I'm not even going to read it here. I'll even show it to you." To go, "Yeah, I didn't say that. It's not really something like I said." It's like, >> you said it. It came through your face. It wasn't AI, right? This wasn't something that was generated on Gemini. like you said this thing. >> Yeah. >> And then you have people that even still to this day will see Tucker put in a position like that, be found wanting when it comes to any level of morality or decency or honesty and then go, "Yep, that's still my guy. Whatever he says goes for me." And the thing about it for me, it doesn't matter who your chosen news person is. Like maybe you're a Daily Wire person, maybe you're a New York Times person, maybe you're a Pod Save America guy, maybe you love Michael Nola. I don't care. But you still should be able to play spot the lie. you you still should be able to hold people in tension and call balls and strikes. So, I I love listening to Ben Shapiro. I've listened to Ben Shapiro since before Donald Trump was elected the first time, right? He's informed a lot of my conservative uh points of view and things like that. I thought his opinion on the Lindsey Clancy tri trial was egregious because he basically said if I was on the jury I probably would have voted to acquit because it's you know because he he talked about oh the mental illness thing and you know whether she can be responsible and blah blah and all these different things and it's like I don't have to now mark and avoid Ben Shapiro because he had an opinion that I didn't agree with. But I also have to realize there's something in the water there that I need to keep an eye on. When Dennis Prager said he sees no moral issues with a man uh viewing AI generated child pornography, right? >> Wait a minute. Like that that means, hey, he's I'm I'm going to agree with about 90% of the things that he says, but I need to be paying closer attention to see if I'm, you know, agreeing with anything that he's saying that I shouldn't because what he maybe fails to realize is how did the AI uh that is able to create those images get to the point where it could create those images? It was because it was coded in a certain way to scour the internet for pornographic images of children being abused and to more neutralize their face, right? To where they're just kind of generic amalgamation of a young boy or a young girl. >> I I don't even care how it came up with it. It's wrong, >> right? >> It's wrong. >> And the thing about it is is where he's like, I don't see the harm in it. It's like >> at a minimum there's a harm to that individual person, right? >> Well, what's his worldview though? >> But yeah, he's Jew. >> Yeah. Yeah, he doesn't believe in Jesus. >> Yeah, he does not believe in Jesus respect. >> Doesn't believe in Jesus. Has a lot of respect for Christianity, but doesn't believe in Jesus. >> Well, and some could even argue that he's I mean, real real Jewish people that do not believe Jesus is the Messiah actually have more disdain for Christianity. We've seen that. Yeah. You know, they can keep it under wraps, >> but there was there was there was a couple times where actually before before his accident, not connecting the two in any way, shape, or form, just sharing the the the timeline basically of recent recent events. Um because he's obviously battling since his since his accident stuff for a couple years now. But it was not too long before that where uh a good pastor friend of mine had him at his church and he was like he was he was actually pretty taken back. He was like he actually kind of showed some disdain for the Christian worldview and belief system and was kind of bold in doing so. And he said it and I had him here to speak at my church because of how he believes politically. And he's all just pray for pray for him because he he needs he needs an awareness. Right. And we should be praying for all the Jewish people, right? It's like we're called to do that. >> But um but your questions always has me come back to what is their worldview? >> What is their belief system? >> And it doesn't have to be that they believe that it's okay to murder babies. But again, I'm going to say it because I believe it's 100% valid and accurate. The Christian worldview is the best, safest, most. the best world view for mankind period because it if you have that if you especially if you have Holy Spirit and the Bible in you should know that it's not okay for somebody to view child porn. It's not okay for the person watching it. It's it's not okay that it's even been created to be watched ever. That's evil. That's abortant the same way killing babies is. It's evil. It's all evil. But if a person doesn't have that, then they can be swayed one way the other by their own intellect. Well, intellectually I think it's okay because it doesn't harm this person. It's like, yeah, you're missing so much. >> Yeah. >> You're you're you're you're missing the foundation for morality, absolute truth, >> and that's why we need it. >> But I think for a lot of people, too, I mean, when you have someone like Dennis Prager, who again, I'm I'm a fan of, I like a lot of things that he says and does, he's an expert on the five books of Moses. He's he's an expert on those books, and he's about to release his last commentary like from a bed paralyzed, I believe, from the from the neck down. he's finishing his final uh Bible commentary. I think it's in Deuteronomy. And but for someone like that, it's it's people that know they know about Jesus, but they don't know Jesus right? >> So, in the Christian context that manifests like uh Matt Chandler, his his eldest daughter grew up in Matt Chandler's house going to private Christian school. She could demolish your uh apologetic message using Latin. Like, she she was constantly around that stuff. She was just far from God. She she didn't know it, right? She knew a lot of stuff about Jesus. She knew the back of the baseball card, but she didn't know Jesus. Now she knows Jesus for herself. Uh, and she's she's absolutely on fire for the Lord and doing things that would have been absolutely unthinkable even a year ago in terms of uh the Christian space. >> But then you have people that are just as lost and then we kind of like forget about them. So like a Ben Shapiro or or a Dennis Prager or people like that where they know a lot about the Messiah, >> right? because they they know >> well they don't call him the Messiah. They know about the man Jesus. They don't believe he rose from the dead. >> They know about the the forthcoming uh conqueror. They they know all those things, but they were just like the Pharisees who and the Sadducees who hey, they were prepared. I forget which group specifically. Their entire reason for existence was making sure that when the Messiah came that they didn't miss it, >> right? >> And they all missed it. They all missed it. And and that's part of the thing that I I think for a lot of people even as as we pray for our political leaders, as we pray for people that are uh creating public policy, as we pray for people that are the opinion influencers, the podcasters, all the, you know, pseudo news journalists or hosts or things like that. It's like we don't just have to pray. I hope they keep giving me arguments that'll help me win arguments that I agree with. Like they help giving giving me the the bullets to shoot through that type of a gun. But it's like, hey, if these people don't come to a saving faith in Christ, the level of taxation in your local uh jurisdiction isn't really that important. Right. >> Right. Uh whatever the next HOA meeting has in store is not really going to change uh change anything. It's not going to affect the cosmos. And it even goes back to what you were saying earlier. It's like we need we need revival and like we need it now and we should be praying to that end. >> What gains what profit a man to gain the whole world politically and lose his soul? >> Well, we even have in the blank politically, right? It doesn't matter. We we can't >> we we we can't discount the need and the urgency for people to actually know Jesus as you're saying. People need to know Jesus. >> Well, I'm curious with that. >> And we're his hands and feet, right? We're the salt of the earth. We're the ones that are supposed to be >> letting them experience him like the like today. Just one case in point, one one example. Um and it's everywhere we go, right? We all have an agenda. We all have plans. We all have things we have to do. It's just making ourel aware to listen to the Holy Spirit and let him lead and let him nudge it and pray for that woman at the gas station. And the more that we do that, don't be shocked if he says, "Hey, there's actually a problem with her foot. Why don't you pray for it?" That happened to me in I was in Florida a few months back and I was actually waiting for u a taxi and it was my wife and I and our youngest daughter who's uh 28. And we're at we're I was I went out to I went out the back of the hotel uh kind of in the car part area, but it's where valet is. And I see this lady that's working. She's her and another guy are doing something has to do with the pool or something. I don't know. She's unloading stuff off the uh off the back of this truck or truck. Yeah, it was a truck. And I see that she's got a boot on her foot and she's limping and I could tell she's kind of grimacing when she's doing it. But I'm busy. I'm waiting for something to come. My daughter's like going to go order a Starbucks. And I felt like Holy Spirit was like, "You should pray for her." And I'm like, I'm like, "Okay, let me let me uh let me go take care of this really quick." And then I went to the I went to the uh Starbucks and then I came back and she was gone. And I was like, "Okay, well, she's going to have to come back if you want me to pray for her." And then she popped out of a door. >> So, I just struck up a conversation. I was like, "Hey, what's your name?" She said, "Joy." And I said, "Oh, that's an amazing name. I love that name." And then I kind of talked about Jesus. I was like, "Do you believe in Jesus?" She was a black girl. She was a black lady. maybe maybe mid 20s, late 20s. And uh a lot of black folks believe in Jesus. Right. So I started there. And she's like, "No, not really. I don't believe in I don't believe in any of that stuff." And I was like, "Okay, that's all right. Well, he believes in you." And uh I really think he wants to reveal himself to you today. Would you mind if I pray for your foot? What what's happening with it? And she said, "Yeah, it's in a lot of pain." She had just gotten and they had done something and it didn't work and she's got to go back. And she's all but it's in a lot of pain. And I was like, "Can you can I pray for you?" And she said, "I don't believe any of that stuff, but you can." Well, I prayed for her foot and all the pain went away. And she's like, "Stop stomp." I'm like, "Put some put some pressure on your foot. See how it feels." And she's like, "I don't feel any pain." I said, "Joy, I just believe that was Jesus wanting to reveal himself to you, that he is real and that he loves you." All right. And literally like my my uh taxi drove up. So I was like, "Can I pray with you really quick?" And she's like, "Yeah, who's going to deny you praying with them? And how much more open are they going to be for you to pray for them when God just showed up and gave them a miracle? And there's no there's no crowds. There's nobody around watching, but God's watching and God got her attention. So, I don't know what she's doing today, but I know I prayed just a simple prayer. Thank you, God, for you know, highlighting her to me. Thank you for revealing yourself to her. And I pray you would continue to draw her closer to you and reveal how much you love her. And uh in Jesus name, >> one plants, another waters, God brings the increase. >> That's right. I want to be planting or watering something that God's planted through somebody else and then praying continually that God brings the incre increase. That is how we spread revival. We are revival everywhere we go. If we're open to allow Holy Spirit to be a part of what we're doing, I think if we try to get somebody saved, if we try to beat them over the head with scripture and this that and the other, again, you argue somebody in, somebody else can argue them out. But when the Holy Spirit shows up, when God shows up and delivers a miracle that nobody can explain, nobody can take it away. >> When we we're called to be the hands and the feet, but salvation is not up to us because like, and look, I love apologetics. I love uh listening from different Christian apologists and the arguments they have and, you know, oh, they're going back to, you know, the cosmological argument and they're they're doing this and here's like seven questions that you can get down to the meat of like whether someone's depraved or sin or not. I love all that stuff. You can't argue them into into faith. Like that that's not how any of this works. It's like it is an imputation they get which is a one one-way street, right? The Holy Spirit is what kind of unlocks that in them and it's a one-way imputation and it's given to them by grace through faith so that no man may boast. There's nothing that they can do and there's no argument that you can make. >> Yep. >> But I'm even curious for you because obviously people know that you're you're very aligned uh with the the Trump White House with MAGA movement or you know, however people would would like to couch it right? >> Yeah. There are a lot of people that have concernation over the faith of our president or the lack thereof. Even recently, I forget what the context of it was. I think this was maybe maybe when we bombed Israel last year before the actual war, something like that, but he was basically saying, "Well, I hope I can do enough good deeds to eventually get into heaven." Yeah. And so just even though that was an off-the- cuff comment on on Air Force One speaking to the press pool and things like that, if you had to be honest and look at the the the totality of his life and examine the fruit, you would say there's there's probably not a fruit of gospel repentance in the life of Donald Trump. While at the same time, it seems like there's some sort of anointing on the life of Donald Trump. Like go back to Butler, Pennsylvania, and the bullet whizzing past and just catching barely grazing his ear by a split second. >> Yeah. which if he was a little bit this way 5 degrees his head is now a canoe like yeah an absolute miracle and and again how many oper how many examples do we have of God drawing straight lines with crooked sticks and all those different things >> but >> let's just assume that I'm right in my summation that Donald J Trump is not a follower of Christ right >> do you see an issue with that especially with how Republicans how some Republicans I'm not going to say Republicans are at large it's almost like they worship the man Like there are people where he can he can absolutely do no wrong. There are people that have really a really hard time calling balls and strikes with him like yeah hey I really like this this this and this but this this this and this this is terrible. This is awful. I wish he wouldn't have done these things. I wish he wouldn't have said that. I feel like there's a lot of stuff that's kind of in the Trump millu because he's one of the most important figures in the history of humanity right uh in in a lot of different ways culturally certainly politically uh in the things that he's done. But I mean, for me personally, if we're supposed to be praying for our leaders, we should be praying for him. And by the way, guys, if you didn't pray for Joe Biden, you're doing this wrong, right? >> You may not like him, but that's all the more reason to vote for him even more, right? There's somebody that was brought up at lunch today where you're like, you had to remind yourself, okay, I got to pray. I got to pray for this person. I want blessings over this person, even though you wanted the life out of them. >> Well, I mean, God gave us the the formula, right? The blessing for them. It's like heaping hot coals on their head. So, I'm going to I'm going to pray for them that God would bless them. Yeah. >> And those hot coals would hopefully turn them towards him. >> Sure. >> But that's that's that's his part. >> Well, let let's even just kind of talk about that fact about the faith of Donald Trump, the man, because whether he's president or whether he has a great next two plus years of his administration, whether he goes down in the history books as the greatest or worst president of all time, none of that matters if he doesn't have Christ. Well, >> absolutely. We all need Jesus. Every single one of us. And I think that uh I mean me personally, I could say this personally from not only like I don't have a close personal relationship with him, but I have close friends that have a close relationship with him. And I would say that he's accepted Jesus and he's prayed the prayer. I know that he's prayed the prayer and invited Jesus into his heart and into his life. Uh and then it's just like how does that look when it walks out, right? And then maybe can he say something off the cuff like, "Well, hopefully I do enough deeds or whatever." I think that's maybe his lack of really awareness or understanding. I don't know. And I'm >> pray the prayer. What prayer? >> Well, inviting Jesus to come into his life accepting him as Lord and Savior, right? I think that uh I think that he believes Jesus is the Messiah and that he's invited him into his life. I don't know at what depth. I don't know that he's reading the Bible every day. I don't know. But I know that when um we should be praying for him that he has a continued revelation of of God's love and what God is using him for. Um, obviously it's a miracle that he survived But Butler, Pennsylvania. I mean, had that shooter not pulled the trigger at that exact second, he would have re readjusted, realigned and shot and took his head off. >> It had to be the exact same second, right? I mean, that's that's an act of providence. That's God right there. >> So, God keeping him alive to use him um is obviously something that he wants for for our nation. Uh, so I mean if the if the question is just whether he's saved or not, it's like, hey, I hope he is and I hope that before his last breath he's accepted Jesus. >> Yeah, I think we're all there. >> You know, one of the one of the one of the most beautiful I think examples of of God's grace for us is the two thieves on the cross. One of them is slandering Jesus. If you're the son of God, get us down from here. yada yada yada. >> All the other thief said was, "Hey, shut up." Right? He didn't deserve this. He shouldn't even be up here. Mhm. >> And then he just said, "Jesus, remember me." That's all he said. And Jesus said, "Today you'll be with me in paradise." >> Yep. >> I don't think we really completely understand and grasp the grace of God's love and how much weight God puts in his son's sacrifice for us. Uh, so I think we're probably going to be surprised at how many people are in heaven, but we'll be thankful because they're not in hell, right? Um, I hope that I hope I think that we'll see him there, whether that's based on what he's already prayed and whether his active, you know, his active faith right now. Um, but, uh, I think we'll see him there. >> I certainly hope so. I so I'll say this cuz if I had to pick one way or another, I would say uh no, I don't I don't think so just because of what I've seen and what I've surmised. But our hope should be the opposite or what our mind tells us. >> The same is true. >> You want to talk about brutal um and I've said this several times in several different contexts, >> but um >> I I prayed I pray that Lindsay Clancy gives her life to Christ. >> Absolutely. Because did Christ sacrifice on the cross cover her killing Cora Dawson and Ken? >> He covered it all. >> It sure did. >> Yeah. >> Um and you know, I've prayed for the uh the president of Planned Parenthood cuz I think we can hold some things in tension. I said this recently with Lindsay Clancy. I was like, I pray that she gives her life to Christ and that >> as horrible as this is to even think that Kora Dawson and Ken are on the welcoming committee for her as she comes into heaven. you want to talk about the the you know the gospel that works. >> Yeah. >> So so there's that. But then also I can simultaneously say if she rejects God's free gift, if she blasphemes the Holy Spirit, if she rejects the gospel, I hope there are gradations to hell and she's in the hottest darkest part. >> And so that's the hard part for a lot of people where they're like, "Hey, I was with you at the beginning. That was rough. I was with you at the beginning, but all that stuff on the end." It's like, no, man. I mean, Psalm 97:10 is probably my favorite single verse in the Bible. Oh, you who love the Lord hate evil. >> Okay. >> Now, we should hate evil so much and recognize it in other people and their depravity to be able to share the gospel with them because it's like there's no other hope other than the gospel of Jesus Christ. >> No blood sacrifice that you could make is more important than the blood of Christ because the blood of Christ is the only one that buys back that sin death where they can stamp to test to say paid in full to where you can have everlasting life in the presence of the heavenly father. But at the same time, you have so many individuals that are just very uncomfortable. Maybe they're they're super Christian or whatever. It's like, "No, I can't. That person is way too far gone." It's like, how can you read the Gospels and think anyone's too far gone? I love Matt Chandler's joke. He's like, there's almost no one in the Bible except Jesus and maybe Daniel that could get a job at the Village Church. None of them would pass a background check. David, murderer, adulterer, right? Moses murdered a guy because he got mad and then he got mad at a rock and hit it with a stick, right? None of these guys would pass. Like the the warts and the issues with all these people are substantial. And yet that is what Christ came to pay for. That is what a good and just holy father God >> Yeah. >> provided for humanity to give us a pathway back. Y >> and you know we kind of kind of have >> Saul he was murdering Christians. >> He was a murdering terrorist. >> He was a terrorist. Literally, he was a he was like an Islamic terrorist, but he was a Jewish terrorist because he believed that the biggest freaking apostasy to the Jewish faith was this guy named Jesus that they're saying is the Messiah. >> Yeah. >> So, he was a terrorist and yet God chose him to write 19 books of the New Testament, >> right? To really help inform how we are to >> shaped our church, >> right? And is a one of the prime pieces of of the book of Acts, which we've talked about a lot. But as we kind of wind to a close here, I mean, we could have spent the entire time just talking about this one subject, but you know, we kind of said tongue and cheek that, you know, hey, he is a terrorist because he was a literal terrorist, >> but we're living in an era where the ubiquity and spread of Islam >> without being fought against >> is substantial. Yeah. >> Because if you go read, and again, I I shout these books out all the time because they're incredibly important. Raymond Ibrahim, Sword and Scimitar, Defenders of the West, and the Two Swords of Christ. This is a guy who speaks and reads Arabic and uh speak and is an English speaker. His uh I think his parents were Coptic uh Christians from Egypt. >> But he goes back to the primary sources and he looks at all the things that happened in all the many crusades that happened over hundreds and hundreds of years to basically uh look at the evils of Islam and how it spread. He's the one that taught me the concept of tea that that I mentioned earlier. But the West is basically opening the door for Islam without realizing what exactly they're agreeing with it. It's a meme that you posted. By the time you guys hear this, it will have been a couple of weeks ago, but it's like imagine letting letting people into your country that will immediately go on welfare on welfare and all of them want to kill you. >> Yeah. >> Like that that's essentially that's what we're doing. And it's been called a lot of things. Toxic empathy, suicidal empathy, Gad, and Ali Bestucky. all kind of talked about in a in a few different ways. But in the west, right, so even just starting in Europe, you have countries that used to be Christian countries that are laying down for for Muslims. >> Uh the the issue in the issues in the UK right now are are substantial because of the unchecked uh Muslim immigration into the country, legal and illegal, them setting up no-go zones, their own enclaves. You have them getting elected into higher office. Even in this country, in the United States, there was a group, I think it was actually kind of funny. It was a Democrat place that uh a majority of Muslims were able to get on the local city city council. The very first thing they cancelled, Pride Month, >> and all the purple-haired nose ring people were like, "Wait a minute, wait a minute. We were so nice. We let you guys in." And they're like, "Yeah, thanks a lot." By the way, also extra canceled now. >> Byebye. >> M Downey being elected in New York. Al very likely going to be the next senator representing the state of Michigan. Uh you have uh at least people that are Islamic sympathizers. You have all these pro- feminist Democrat politicians. The moment they go before a group of Muslim men, what do they throw on? Oop. Let's go ahead and cover our heads, right? Let's just go ahead and do whatever they say that we need to do because we don't want to make them mad. Let's just appease them and tut it. the and for Christians that are paying attention, they can feel like that inner crusader, that inner hospital are coming up like, okay, there's there's a war in the spiritual realm that I play a part in, but I can't necessarily win it. there's a war in the political realm that I can have an effect and I can at the very least cast my vote. But there are some people coming to the place where it's like, oh, I might have to literally fight Muslims at some point. Uh because they're going to come to not some random place places in Israel, random kabutzas in Israel on the 7th of October a few years ago. They're going to come to my city. They're going to come to my neighborhood. I saw this video just a about last week and it was uh it was a Islam it was an Islam Muslim guy on the pier in New Jersey and he's talking to this this uh man and his wife about Islam and when he gets rejected he immediately turns confrontational to the point where he's like I'm an assassin I can just kill you and then starts demeaning the guy's life like you you're you're with a you know expletives to both of them and he's just like you know what maybe I just do need to just knock you out right now like he was immediately turning violent this is in the United States in America trying to win converts but when he's not winning converts he immediately is turning violent >> that's Islam >> and they're here >> yeah and I think people don't quite understand and this is how it normally works out. Well, I know some very, very nice Muslims. So, this is what I want those people to understand cuz the Quran's a mess. The hadith are a mess. But there's a concept called abrogation as it as it comes to the Quran. The Quran is not broken into books or chapters. It's it's broken into suras. Okay. Surah 9 of the Quran is the least abrogated text in the entirety of the Quran as revealed by a demon to Muhammad in a cave. Okay. >> Was a demon 100%. And so Muhammad, so what I mean by abrogation is there are there are plenty of passages in the Quran that are peaceful that call for peace that basically you would read those and go I guess Islam is a religion of peace, right? Islam doesn't mean submission. It must mean peace. >> But the the ninth surah is the the last thing that Muhammad gave to people via the Quran. So basically that is him saying >> everything that I've said before this. >> I don't mean that. I mean this and it is the bloodiest final will in testament. >> Yeah. It is the the bloodiest and the calling for the most violence against the infidel in the entire book. And then you get into obviously his life marrying a six-year-old and consummating the marriage when she was nine. Uh the raping and pillaging that he did like all all the different things that that when you look at that man's life that don't comport with any type of a godly morality. And obviously when you hear Paul warn uh you know people like hey if anyone including us comes to you with a new revelation don't believe it. So that's a word to the the Muslims that's a word to yeah if us or an angel yeah that's the Islam's in that Mormonism is in that. It's like no no no guys that there is not going to be a new revelation in addition to this. >> But I I need to come back >> on on the Muslim front. I think when people say well I know some good Muslims. You know what? Technically, they're are bad Muslims because they're not following. They're not doing what Muhammad said. >> Yeah. >> But you know who the good Muslims are? Hamas, Boo Haram. Yeah. >> The Taliban, Al-Qaeda. >> Well, and here's the other thing, too. For the nonviolent so-called good Muslims that people say, "Well, I know a lot of nice Muslims, moderate Muslims." >> Here's the issue with those. They may not be the problem right now, but when enough radicals get in control and push Sharia law, they will 100% push for Sharia law. >> They will fall in line. >> They will fall in line. They're not going to stand up for the Constitution of the United States. >> They may not put on an S vest. They may not walk into your kids' school with an AK, but they are going to fall in line and do those things. And you know how we know what that what you just said is true? when they do any type of polling, and yes, I understand this is a bit of an issue, but any type of polling that happens in a place like Palestine after something like October the 7th, how many people do you think that did not participate, right, in any of the killings and the rapes and all those different things, but supported it? >> Almost all of them. Almost all of them said, "Yes, I'm glad it happened to those Jewish dogs." >> Yeah. And so you have to think how a worldview can get you to that point because we're not saying that every Muslim is a fundamentalist uh and that thus they are all murderers, but every murdering Muslim person is a fundamentalist. There's no such thing as radical Islam. I hate when people say that and conservatives still say it too. It's not radical Islam. It's fundamentalist Islam. Fundamentalist >> because look, you can point to a Christian that says, "Hey, I'm a Christian." And they're a bad person, right? They say things, they're terrible. They're racist. They they cheat on their taxes. They're an awful terrible person. But if we go back to the source material and say what should a Christian be and what are the tenants of a good moral Christian, we can just say oh that person's just not living by the book. But if you see a peaceful Muslim that is living in peace with their Jewish and Christian and non-believing brethren they're not living it out. I I just feel like people like again you want to talk about spiritual warfare. They are blinded by this. And I'm like the end times battle is not going to be between feminists and Christians. It's not going to be between communists and Christians. It's going to be between Muslims and Christians. And we are heading there a pace. >> Absolutely. No, I believe that 100%. Uh I've got some friends, you know, Robbie Dawkins. >> Mhm. >> He's a great guy. He's done a lot of ministry in the Middle East. He's been in Iran several times. I think he's actually going back uh to a neighboring country in just two or three weeks. But he's a guy that also walks in signs and wonders. He's like, "Bring heaven down." He said the the quickest way to see somebody, even a Muslim, like convert or be willing and open is just pray for them and God will when God heals them, you have their attention and you have the attention of their entire family and potentially that entire village. He's like, that's how it spreads. So, he's built a lot of underground churches in the Middle East. And he said that that is the that's also the need for us to walk with an awareness of Holy Spirit and bringing him into the equation and being bold enough to pray for somebody for a miracle to happen because you can't beat their you can't win them over with ideology. You can't be so much of a Bible apologist that you're going to win their argument. You're going to win over their argument. Maybe you do, but the way you win their heart is through allowing the Holy Spirit to come in and reveal himself to them. That's what's going to happen. That's the only way we're going to beat it back. >> So, what would your >> And we got to try to beat them at the ballot box, too, right? We can't We got to slow down the progression because they are here and they are going to continue to increase in number politically and population-wise. They're going to continue to increase in number. Uh, and so what we have to do is try to limit their ability to influence and it's just like what Broken Bow they were trying to put up or no was it broken bow where they were trying to put up that me big mosque >> broken arrow. >> Broken arrow. Yeah. Yeah. And the city came all came down and said, "No, you're not building a big old mosque here and shut it down." And now they're still trying to do something. We've got to the people state by state. It's got to be state by state at this point cuz Texas, Frisco, that whole area and I'm we're from we lived there for several years before we moved here. Uh it is growing and exploding with mosques and with areas for Muslims to gain power and they're going to continue to grow. So what we've got to do is is push back, do everything we can politically, do everything we can in the natural. Uh, but then we've also got to be aware of the fact that we need God's supernatural on our natural, we need to be able to be willing to when we meet somebody that's that's in the Muslim faith to be hearing and see, Holy Spirit, you going to give me something for this person so that you can show up and wreck their worldview and bring and bring something to them that's going to change them and let that be the seed that starts the fire that changes that that family and maybe that neighborhood, whatever. But we've got to come at it with both. When I think a lot of Christians, a lot of conservatives, a lot of Republicans or whatever, they are terrified, absolutely terrified of being called a name. And so you want to ruin their entire life, call them a racist, call them a xenophobe, call them an Islamophobe, a trans phobe, any of those types of things. And when someone on our side is called one of those things, they always have the exact wrong reaction, which is, "Nuh-uh. I'm I'm not a I'm not a homophobe. Look, I got a gay friend, right? Hey, I'm not Islamophobe. I actually work with two guys that that go to the mosque all the time, right? And they're great guys, right? And sometimes they eat their food. That's what they do." When their answer should be, why do you think I would care what what you think I am? >> Yeah. >> Like, so, okay. Okay. Someone calls me a racist. So they are claiming that when I see someone, one of the primary things that I see is the level of melanin they have in their skin that attaches to their genetic makeup and background. And when people don't comport with a certain category, I see them as other, right? Subhuman, something like that. That's what someone is saying when they're calling me a racist. >> This is a this is just a random person. Maybe it may be a stranger. It may even just be an acquaintance. They call you racist. Your only response should should be like, "Why do you think I would care about that?" or like what makes you think that that I'm a racist and just hear what they have to say cuz you're going to know pretty quickly whether or not they have any basis for what they say whatsoever cuz they are making a claim about a heart condition. >> Mhm. >> Right. Inside of your soul that you could possibly look at someone that doesn't look like you and be like, "Yep, don't like them." Why? Cuz they don't look like me. That's essentially what the claim is. But the way that we operate is we don't want to stand up and push back against the mosque that's being built in our little suburb in Texas. We don't want to stand up and go to the school board meeting say, "Oh yeah, all these sexually explicit books that are in the kids' library. Yeah, those got to get out. That's ridiculous." We don't want to stand up and say, "Yeah, that boy is not going to play on my girls high school volleyball team. It's dangerous." And even if it wasn't dangerous, even if he's the worst person out there, he's a he. There's a reason there's a separation of the sports, right? We have to give these girls a chance to compete. But so many people are just terrified that someone's gonna shoot a mean tweet off, someone's gonna send them an email, someone's going to leave a mean comment on Facebook. A lot of this manifests not with the real world. It manifests in in the social world. But like I guess do what you can to steal the nerves of the people that are in my audience that are like actually terrified. Oh, someone may call me a name someday. It's like, bro, it happens all the time to you and I. Just get used to it. >> Yeah. Get used to it. So what? Who cares? >> Yeah. >> Right. It's like that's all they've got. Uh, I think we've all forgot sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me. They It's like, what do they got? They don't give them the satisfaction of thinking that what they say actually carries any weight with who you are or how you're going to operate your life. That's how they win. >> It's a manipulation tactic. If I call you a name that's dirty enough, that's ugly enough, maybe I will stop you from actually going a direction that you want to go. It's total manipulation. And so if you if you accept and if you're aware that it's a manipulation tactic, then you can allow yourself to not be manipulated. >> Mhm. >> Oh, okay. You're trying to stop me from doing this because maybe because it is right. I feel like it's right. I feel like it's righteous. You know, it's in alignment with all these different things. I'm standing up for my principles. I'm standing up for what I believe in. I'm standing up for America. And you don't like it. Uh and so you're going to try to manipulate me to to stop going that direction. Okay. Well, I'm not going to be manipulated. I'm gonna keep going in that direction. And hopefully you're going to go with more fervor, >> right? >> I mean, people call me a racist. Are you freaking kidding me? My dad's black. My mom's white. I'm racist against myself. Okay, you're really an idiot. >> Well, and even even still, cuz like in the town I grew up in, incredibly uh so a lot in southwest Oklahoma, army bases there, and so we have, you know, I grew up with kids of all different races and backgrounds, and none of us looked at each other like anything different. It's like, oh, that's just my classmates or whatever. Yeah. But I watched people that were were light-skinned get picked on by the dark-kinned black people. I watched like, you know, white kids that didn't like the Mexican kids. Like I saw all that stuff. It was just kind of like the the air we breathe at a certain rate. >> But there should be categories of care. >> For instance, let's go back to the claim of you're a racist. Okay, if some random slappy on the internet calls me a racist, whether they leave me a mean comment or send me a DM or send me an email, don't care about that. >> If my wife said, >> "Honey, I I'm afraid you might be a racist." >> If my foxhole brothers said, "Hey, hey, Kyle, I think you might be racist." If my pastor, if one of my elders, if one of my friends like you >> said, "Kyle, I think you might be a racist." >> They might be wrong, but there's enough like issues like brew right now like, "Oh boy, I need to understand why they're saying such a thing." >> Yeah. Yeah. So, and and it depends because when I when I started championing Trump back in 2016, 17, 18, uh got got invited to the White House, I don't know, four, five, six times between 18 and 20 was in there. Uh got to go in the Oval Office, been there a couple times with him, take pictures and stuff. my cousin on my dad's side of the family, um my cousin's husband, uh so they're they're black, they're not mixed like me. And I had spent time with him and his my cousin, his wife, and their family like two or three summers in a row. I was working in that area. So I lived with them for like two, three months. >> He uh I'm forget if it was probably 18, 16, 17, 18, somewhere in there. 18 probably. He texts me and he's all, "Hey, David, when did you start hating black people? I just had to laugh. >> I just had to laugh. I was like, "Oh, D, come on, man. You know I don't hate you. You know I love you guys." I just had to laugh and just let it go. And then my uh my aunt, my dad's sister, she had posted a video on Instagram where I was at a Trump rally. It was actually the one in Tulsa. This is back maybe 19. We're at a Trump rally. And in between each speaker, they would play music. And so when they're playing music, I was there with the Black Coalition. So, it's all black folks in this in this uh section and I'm next to like Terrence Williams and there's some other people next to us and they're playing music and Terrence is just being funny and he's dancing. I'm some I'm just kind of standing up and I'm doing this little grooving with him. So, somebody took that clip and they posted it on Facebook and a p a so-called pastor uh said uh said, "Look at all these black folks dancing for NASA." My aunt my aunt reposted it knowing it's full well it's me like it's very obviously me and Terrence like we're the it's I think it was my video or Terren's. So it's us. >> My aunt reposts that and says looking all stupid. >> So in agreement with her the pastor >> and again I just had to give it to God. It's like I know which direction I'm going. I know why I'm going this direction. You know what? I don't care who who approves or doesn't approve, especially if they don't have any weight, as you just said. It's not my pastor. It's not my elder. It's not my wife. It's not one of my, you know, close friends that's trying to say, "Hey, I think I see something off." Yeah. >> You know, it's just somebody throwing a fiery dart, right? Well, that's what the shield of faith is for. Quench all the fiery darts of the enemy. So, I just kept going. And now, it's funny. My cousin I shared with first, he messaged me probably a year or so ago, and he just asked me about something else, but that was his olive branch. Yeah, >> he would ask about anything else if he wasn't testing the waters. >> Exactly. >> But that you're you're touching on a lot of key things which is basically like guys, first of all, if you don't have foxhole guys or a pastor or elders that you could be submitted to that could even point out like the log in your eye. Yeah. >> Like that's a massive problem. Again, I got another message today. It it breaks my heart every time. But these men that are going through a crisis of some kind, could be a spiritual crisis, financial, relational, uh any health crisis, and they're messaging me, their favorite podcaster, >> like they don't have brothers, right? They don't have foxhole guys, they don't have a pastor, they don't have elders, >> and it's like, >> best case scenario, >> I I I call you, we talk on the phone, and I say some magical word that makes it all better. >> Yeah. >> Like that's not You need someone to walk with you, brother. >> Yeah. You need a brother to walk with you. And you need to be the type of guy that can walk with someone else when they're in the valley of the shadow of death. Why are you talking to me? I'm not anti- guys reaching out. It just breaks my heart. Used to I'm like, "Oh, this is cool. All right, I get a chance to help this person out now." It's just like "Dang >> this person is in the doldrums if they're if they're reaching out to me." >> But with these these people >> that don't understand your position, you you have to understand there's something broken in them. Not not sometimes they might be right, but if they're going against something that's either biblical or something that goes against biblical morality, there's something broken that they can't see that's broken. It's not just a disagreement on policy. >> And it doesn't mean you have to fix them, >> right? And it's not to God and you couldn't. And and here's the other thing. I I've I've >> used to argue with people on Facebook all the time, but now I have a podcast where I can, you know, sit here in my studio without any pants on and scream into my microphone and do all that. When has anyone ever changed their mind based on a wellthoughtout, well well-written Facebook comment? >> Yeah. >> On a major topic. >> I don't think it's ever happened. >> I don't know that's ever happened in the history of humanity. Not saying it won't, but it hasn't. >> Maybe hopefully, but >> if you're one of those guys that's in the cesspool that is Twitter or that you're constantly in the comment section on Facebook and Instagram and you're doing all these different things, >> it is draining your emotional energy. Right? >> Go spend that energy on the Bible or worship. Spend time in God's presence. Let him change you. you lowgrade anxiety your way through life because you're waiting on that, you know, dork from the internet to respond to your comment because you're already ready with your next argument and those types of things. >> It's foolish. It's an absolute waste of time. And guess what? You might be arguing with a North Korean bot. >> Exactly. >> Congratulations. You're getting mad at someone that doesn't exist. Um, and so I I think that that's that's helpful for people to kind of understand that if you're going to be at the tip of the spear or if you're going to move move towards the tip of the spear because of the stuff that you do and I do, we're at the tip of the spear. And when one of those flaming arrows comes our way, it's either going to hit us, our shield, or someone around us. Like those are the only options. When you're back at the back, when you're back in the crowd, the odds of you getting hit go down considerably. But if you will be bold and let let Christ, you know, be the foundation of your boldness to move towards things that hurt the heart of God, like move towards these areas of sin and point them out and work against them. Y >> yes, you will experience more discomfort. You will experience some things that you never thought that you would experience. But will it be worth it? >> Yes. >> Yes, it is. Because obeying again, which which person in the Bible obeyed God, and it was all just peaches and cream and Lamborghinis like wh who's that person? When you read through this of the apostles, one killed himself, one was exiled to the aisle of Patmas. They tried to boil him alive. It just didn't work. The others were hung upside down, beheaded, pulled apart by animals, flayed alive, all these different things. These were Jesus's dudes. These were his ride or dies, right? These were his initial apostles, right? >> And that's the end that they met. >> I'm not saying that the end that they met was good. I'm not saying that we should all seek to have that kind of an end to our lives as well. But I am saying that all of them would say that it's worth it. Because this is one of the reasons why the first century church was able to withstand and make, you know, overpower the Roman Empire, right? And to even survive. It was because we can't find a single accounting of any of those early apostles or disciples as they're being marched to their death saying, "I was kidding. I was kidding." Right? Right. We got together after he was dead. We thought we got to maintain power somehow. So, we made up the story. We actually took the body. Right. These Roman guards who would die if they let anybody get past that stone. We just convinced that guy to to fall asleep. We did all this. We don't have any record of that whatsoever. >> Didn't happen. >> They all went to their desks knowing that they were about to experience a gruesome death. willingly praising the Lord, singing songs of praise, praying out loud for the people that were about to kill them, that God's wrath would not be spilled out on them, but that his mercy would go to those people, >> that's what we should be able to point people towards. So, the the closer you move towards that, yes, you might have some a little bit of dispsy, a little bit of you might get a tummy ache here and there, but it's ultimately for your good and God wants you to do it. And I don't know why you would go any other direction. Revelations 12:11, "They overcame the enemy by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony, and they loved not their life, even unto death." >> That's it, man. There's a lot of ways we can end this, but I think that's a pretty good way. But that's all for me. Is there anything else you want to get off your chest? >> No. No. I'll just It's been an honor, man. It's been an absolute pleasure. Hopefully, uh, I know you're going to do my podcast because I'm launching a podcast >> very soon. Yeah, that's great. Breaking news for anybody podcast over here. >> Who is Jesus to you is the name of my podcast and it's based on Revelations 12:11. It is just uh we won't get political. We won't get into any current events. It is all about Jesus and your journey. Uh who you were before him, who you are with him, what what he looks like to you in the morning, biblical Bible stuff, Holy Spirit. Uh we we get into all that stuff. So, it's it's a it's a it's a drawn out it's a it's a overview. Uh uh it's it's not an overview. It's a it's a good chunk of a person's testimony because I felt like uh I felt like uh God had God had said um you know, collect testimonies, get people's testimonies. Um I've had uh some pretty incredible people on and I'm honored to have you on soon. But >> fun. Yep. And if you uh yeah, you want to hear how God is working and what he's doing in people's lives and all the stories are different, but I think I love it because it just shows you how how broad God is, right? Everybody's journey doesn't have to look the same or feel the same, but what God does is always similar. He's always there to redeem, restore, heal, and uplift and and do incredible things in very broken people's lives. I mean, that's that's the beauty. So >> awesome, man. Well, I'm excited to come on. Thanks again for coming in. >> Absolutely, brother. God bless you. Thank you everyone for listening to this episode. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate, and leave us a positive five-star review. If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an email to info@undaunted.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook. And check out our website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming. www.undaunted.life. The music on this podcast is the song Conqueror by the Christian metal band Void Awaken. Be sure to stream their music on Spotify, Apple Music, and wherever else you get your music. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness. Keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Keep seeking the Lion of Judah. Heat. Heat.