[Music] This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it. All right, guys. We got a special guest on the podcast today. His name is Dave Mson. We had a lot of fun on this one. He is the founder and owner of Saddleback Leather Company. That's an iconic leather brand. It's got a 100red-year warranty on all their products. I actually have one of their products right here. I've got their little toiletry bag. You and we kind of talk about this on the podcast and all the different things. But he is the author of a new book out now. It's called They'll Fight Over It When You're Dead, the true story of how I survived terrorists, morons, and an assassin to build one of the coolest leather companies in the world. And so they'll fight over it when you're dead. that's kind of like the company moniker uh in terms of their bags. And so his company is the official leather goods maker, the Texas Rangers. He worked with Toyota to make a limited edition 1500 uh truck, limited edition kind of saddleback leather interior truck. But in this podcast today, he's just got such an insane story, right? So guys, the book is in the show notes. You can check it out. But his story is just absolutely insane about, okay, how he came to faith in Christ, how he ended up in Mexico, how while he was in Mexico, he didn't have a bag for his books, but he wanted it not just any bag, he wanted a cool bag. And so he had designed a bag and then a bunch of people were complimenting the bag and then he's like, "Well, maybe I can make some more and sell them." and just his stories of what he did to get his bag company off the ground because people wanted his bags but you know he's trying to get them made and you know he has to learn all this stuff about leather and he kind of gives us in this interview today a kind of a rundown of the different types of leather and all the all the different things and I mean at different points guys he's living in a $100 a month like rundown beat up apartment somewhere in Mexico he's trading his time and his work for for tacos right he's trading like he was studying out his dog to make puppies to trade for more food for him and his dog just trying to get this company off the ground. We go into deep detail about the Federal that was sent to kill him, right? So, an assassin was sent to kill this guy. And we get into his mindset like, "Okay, this guy was sent to kill me. I know he's going to kill me. We're riding in a car together. Okay, what can I do to like catch this guy off guard? How can I kill him? How can I make sure nobody finds the body?" like we went all up and through that story, but we we just really talked again about how he created this company, why focusing on design and focusing on quality over, you know, just trying to, you know, punch out a bunch more bags to put out there on the marketplace. And then, you know, why they decided to do kind of an old school style of making these bags. You know, the first time his company went over a million dollars in sales and just doing things that are ministry focused that don't always make sense for business. And so you'll see in a lot of his answers today that, you know, he's just so full of the love of Christ that he wants to share it with other people. And he feels like his ministry is this leather bag company, right, which has expanded into other things. And even today's interview is kind of a microcosm of this dude's life that it was just all over the place. Like he's doing the interview in one of those Toyota Tundra trucks because, you know, he lives in a tent, which, you know, we didn't talk about today, but his family lives like in this, you know, big fancy tent thing. you can actually search the guy's name on YouTube and you know search Dave Muntz tent house and you can watch a little video on it or whatever and so like lightning struck and so they didn't have you know internet at the house and they didn't have you know Wi-Fi for a time at the shop like it was just kind of all over the place but it was just a lot of fun to get get him to to tell these stories but like in the middle of his answers he would just go on this tangent about something that was gospel related and it was just so refreshing because you can just tell it's just in there you know what I mean and then we we talked about their new headquarters because they a new head headquarters there kind of near Fort Worth there in Texas. And he kind of went into all this detail about how they wanted it to be just the coolest headquarters in the world. And so he's just a very very unique guy. He's created an incredibly unique brand. And I was just so happy to, you know, basically go through all those stories with him today. So guys, without further ado, let's get into it. Dave Mson, I would do my normal welcome to Undone to Life of Man's podcast intro and all that, but we just got to we just got to like disabuse the audience of what's going on or I guess we need to inform them as to what's going on. Where the heck are you, Dave? I thought you were going to be in this fancy studio. I heard about this fancy new office headquarters that you got. It doesn't look like you're there. So, where where the heck are you? >> So, I'm at a gas station in my pickup truck on using my uh hotspot on my phone. And so out in the country so uh last night uh it was so we live in a tent, right? We live in tents. >> Yeah. >> And they're really super cool tents. Don't feel bad for us. And the this And so when it's when there's a lightning storm out, it's like it's like you're sitting under a tree when lightning hits there. >> Yeah. >> It's there's no I mean it's just canvas walls. So boom, power goes out and uh and so then, you know, we got it all back up. the company came out, but the Wi-Fi didn't come back up. So, um, so it's still it's still limping. So, I said, "Okay, I'll just go outside and get in my truck." But, uh, but it's raining, so I said, "Okay, so let's go to where it's not raining, and that's at the c under the canopy of the gas station." So, here we are. >> Well, we're going to get to the fact that you live in a tent and that no one should feel bad for that. We're going to get to uh the greatest headquarters of all time. But the very first place that we need to start is you and I basically are like brothers from another mother because you and I vehemently hate the exact same thing that apparently no one else in the world vehemently hates. So I want to read a quote from a book that I'm going to introduce here in a second. But here's the quote. I hate onions so much that I wish all of them would burn in hell forever. I think they're the dumbest looking vegetable there is. And the sound of the word hurts my ears. Did you know that at least 10% of the people are like me and hate onions? I've taken polls at taco stands and in restaurants. It's the truth. I have been banging this drum forever, Dave. Onions are the worst. Like, if I could go back to God whenever he was creating everything and like suggest some things that he not allow, like, hey, no genocide, no abortion, no murder, onions. Uh, like I it would be up there because I'm like, "God, they're going to put them on everything and they're gross and they they swear they make them taste better and and all the things." It's just not true. They taste terrible. The texture is awful. That That's why I hate onions. So, what where does the hatred come for you? >> Uh, it's in the taste. So, people go, "Why don't you like onions?" I go, "Cuz they taste bad." >> Yeah. >> And so, I told my uh I told my wife, I was like, "Hey, honey, guess what? I just learned something about me." She goes, "What's that, sweetie?" And I said, "Uh, I'm a super taster." And she goes, "No, you're not." And I go, "What are you? Wait, hold on a second. What are you against it for? You don't even know what it is." It's a thing. Like, you can It's on Wikipedia. It's a super taster. And you and I, Kyle, we can taste things that a lot of people can't. So, to a lot of people, onions taste like fine, but to us, it tastes like awful, like what we truly taste what it is. So, um, so yeah, it's a it's an actual thing. onions. >> That seems to be the reality that people they they just swear it helps. But like I mean my favorite one of my favorite things to drink is like is scotch and so like arbeg it's like taking a drink of like sea water mixed with seaweed and like you know the bottom of a campfire and all that. So I love that stuff but something about onions is just not really doing it for me. But today there's a >> actually onions onions came about as part of the fall. So when Adam sinned and then thorns came up and I think at that time onions came up. >> So what you're saying is if you're eating onions are basically satanic. That's what I heard you say. Like >> well Satan used onions and leaks and onions to draw people away from God back to Egypt. He they they wanted to >> You just gave me the best argument of all time for all those people that look at me funny like why don't you like onions? Everybody likes onions. I'm just going to say that. I'll be like hey I want to go to heaven someday. But we got to talk about the book that you released which is how you and I got connected is this book right here. They'll fight over it when you're dead. The true story of how I survived terrorists, morons, and an assassin to build one of the coolest leather companies in the world. And so I want to read a quote from the very beginning of this book because it's going to be the scaffolding for our conversation today. I shed a lot of blood, sweat a lot of tears trying to get my company, Saddleback Leather, up and going. And it wasn't all mine. This book does not tell a traditional how I started story. I've hit many bumps in the road along the way. A Mexican Mexican federal was sent to kill me, but I decided to kill him instead. I'm pretty sure I unintentionally worked for the Mexican mafia for a couple of years. For three long years, my black lab blew and I slept on the floor of a $100 a month apartment in the most dangerous city in the world with no hot water trying to get this business going. And on and on and on the stories go. But let's just start generically. 30,000 foot view and then we're going to kind of get in and build up to to what you're doing now. So, why this book? Why now? why you >> uh so uh a lot of people were saying, "Dude, you got to write these stories down." And I I'd put them in the website, you know, little bits in here and there sort of I I used to stud my my uh you know, Blue I stud them out uh for for in Mexico uh cuz he was a purebred lab. And so uh I would take those I get a puppy. I get a puppy in exchange for studing them out. Blue was cool with it. And uh and then I would take the puppies and I would trade them for tacos from my favorite taco guy and and so I have all these stories uh bull fighting and stuff and terrorists and al-Shabaab terrorists in Somalia and all that. But um what I was doing is what God was doing is he was creating a story and I didn't want it to go to waste. And so I I kept knowing I felt like God wanted me to write it down. Write it down. Write it down. I gave you a story and I mean people stole all millions of dollars from me and backstabbing all this stuff and dude I had millions of dollars to steal. How awesome is that? That's like wow like really cool. And so I thought I don't want this go to waste. I want what Satan used for bad. I want to go for good. And so uh what I did was I started writing it down. And along the way, you know, when you go through hard times, uh God um he he uh he shapes you and he gives you wisdom and he gives you understanding of things. And so I wanted to pass that along to other people um like big time. So that's why >> Well, I certainly think you did so with the book. Uh again guys, it is a thrill ride reading that book because you know if you've gone to school and if you've gotten your MBA and if you've kind of been in a professional setting, you've been suggested a lot of those this you know how I started it type of books and so there I was with you know my my my pen and I was going into the boardroom and I was going to sign my life over for this thing and like there's all those types of stories but there's not really a whole lot else to it. But for for you the the core foundation of everything that you do is the spread of the gospel. like that's that's really the jumping off point of your entire life because your desire to spread the gospel uh and for people to turn towards God and away from their their own selves. That's what led you down to Mexico to teach English. That's what led you to do a lot of things in your life. So, let's just start there for you because everyone's got a different, you know, uh coming to faith story. So, what was that like for you? >> Yeah. So, I was born in a Christian home and my dad was 100% about the kingdom of God. He was like, "Listen, we got to get more the God reigning in the hearts of more and more people." And then as I was digging into it, there's like, you know, see seek first the kingdom of God and then all these other all your needs will be taken care of, but like go after the kingdom that more and more people would become members of the kingdom and don't waste your life. And so I was like, "Well, okay, then I won't I'm gonna I'm gonna try for that." And um and so I did the I just wanted you know more and more people to come into the kingdom. And so that that's what uh my dad uh impressed on me and and so that's what I was going after and that's why I wrote that's the principal purpose why I wrote the book is uh is for that. And so the book is a 240 page with 50 pictures by the way a 240 page um Bible tract. So I share the gospel in there. There was a a federal he sent to kill me and he was snorting cocaine and all of that. And I I shared the gospel with him and then and then he said this and then I said that and then he said this and I was going to cut his head off and bust his teeth out uh so they wouldn't be able to identify him. Um and cuz I was the last guy seen with him anyway. Uh and but I shared the gospel in these stories and then um and then we I accidentally took my family to Somalia. Um, and that's kind of a long story. And uh, and there were these al-Shabaab terrorists all around us. And I had my little kids with me. It was like my worst fathering moment ever. But then with one of the guys later that night, I got to share the gospel. And I lay it out in the book how I shared it. And I did it a few times in the book, shared the gospels. Whoever reads it, they're going to get the gospel. >> That's right. And I think you we're certainly going to get into some of those story guys. Uh, stories, guys. Don't worry. Like that's the thing whenever you when you talk to certain people is there are always opportunities for sharing the Bible and for sharing the gospel with people. And I think it's it's a disservice that Christians have done to themselves where they think if they haven't gone to seminary then they can't share the gospel. Or if they don't have a great affect and how they present something verbally then they can't share the gospel. I mean see see Moses for you know somebody who's maybe not uh the the best speaker and having a big impact for the kingdom of God. But I I think a lot of Christians really will kind of like sell themselves short because it's like Phil Robertson is one of the most important men uh to me and the the way that he shared the gospel is just this kind of all shuxy wisdom type thing to where it's like look you're going to go to hell if you're on the wrong side of the ledger here. So let's let's get on the right side and this is how you get there. But uh we we got to kind of get into okay how do we end up creating you know the coolest leather company of all time. So, you're in Mexico, you're teaching English, and you don't have a bag that is sufficient for you to carry your books. Okay? And so, you go uh and you do the the very entrepreneurial thing, even before you realize probably you were even an entrepreneur, that hey, I'm just going to design a bag and have someone make it for me. And you actually prayed to God. I thought this was cool. You prayed several times to God. Hey, please help Blue be the coolest dog of all time, right? And then, you know, in your wise, he was. and you prayed to God, please help this be the coolest bag ever, right? Like this is this is kind of what you prayed and then you made this first bag. So So tell me about this first bag. What were you trying to to get from it? Like what what did you need it to do? And then we'll we'll work from there. >> Yeah. So I wanted to carry my books, my school books. I was teach volunteer uh down there for a year, raised money to go down there and um and I thought I need a bag to carry my books. So, what would Indiana Jones carry? And so, I was like, "Oh," and I had this picture in my head of what he would carry. And, you know, professor but yet archaeologist, adventure, but yet professional. And uh and so I I looked around for one, couldn't find one like the one I was looking for. And I found a guy making bags. And uh uh and actually, it turns out his father had 50 children, and he was bragging about it. Uh but that's a whole another story. Uh, but I uh so I I he made the bag. I sketched it out. He made it. And I said, "I don't want any I want this to be the best bag, the highest, the greatest bag ever." And I was imagining my grandkids kind of rumaging through my my study when I'm dead, still warm in the grave. And and they someone find one of them finds my this bag and then the other one's like, "Dude, that's mine. I get that. No, dude, that's mine. I want it." No. and then they're fighting and they fight over my bag. So that's where our slogan they'll fight over it when you're dead comes from. Um so yeah, so then I got this bag and everywhere I went with it. I got back up to Portland, Oregon and uh and everywhere I went people were tapping me on the shoulder, where could I get a bag like yours, sir? I four or five times a day people come out of their offices across the street. Hey, excuse me, sir. Where'd you get that bag? Where could I get one? And so I thought, hey, I could do youth work like that and I wouldn't have to get a job. I could just volunteer. I speak Spanish now. I could go anywhere. This is great. I'm just going to sell some on eBay. And that's what that was my idea to start. >> And so you decide, hey, this is potentially a business here. Uh there's something that we can do. But something that happens very early in business is a lot of prototypes are incredibly high quality or can be incredibly high quality, whether you're making bags or shoes or something else. But then it's like, "All right, well, there's the the the reality of the materials and the people that can work with those materials and what they cost and what you're going to have to eventually sell the bag for and what the market will allow for, blah blah blah blah blah." But from the very beginning, you were just, "Yeah, I don't really care about any of that." Like, you were hyperfocused on quality. And so there there's a quote from a book that kind of elucidates this. And that's what happened when I bought my first Toyota Land Cruiser. This was my first steps to down the road of overengineering quality. Toyota's design philosophy truly influenced my thinking in designing saddleback leather goods. One question always was on my mind. How can I make this design to be the longest lasting, most durable leather piece in the world? And I think if a life needs to depend on a bag one day, may it depend on mine. And so one thing about leather is, you know, what I know about leather is when I walk into a place that sells a lot of it, I like the smell. That's the extent of my my knowledge of leather. But in the book, you you get into detail about the differences in leather, like, okay, full grain leather, top grain leather, genuine leather, split leather, suede, bonded leather, whereas most people are just like, oh, these are leather boots, or oh, this is a leather handbag or something like that. And so for you, I I know you can't give us a master class right now on leather cuz we got a lot of other stories to get to. But tell me, first of all, why focus on, hey, we're going to use the best leather and then what are kind of the differences to kind of help, you know, my audience on the consumeristic level? >> Yeah. So, uh, you have a you have a hide and when it's and when it's in its full thickness, maybe three or 4 millimeters thick, okay? And it's all tan. It's real nice and everything. And so on the top of it, the top like 20%, 25% has what's called grain. And so, and and and it's the toughest, tightest part, water, most water resistant, stain resistant, tough, keeps the moisture in, all that stuff. The grain is awesome. And so, but a lot of companies will take take the grain. It has a top part has a lot of scarring on it, too. And so, people go, "Oh, icky scars." And so, they'll sand off the scars off the top of it. And then now you get um it only has a little bit of grain left on the top. That's top grain. If it has the full amount of grain on top, that's full grain. And so that's the toughest, strongest part. The bottom part, top grain's decent. It's uh but and then if they split the hide, let's say you have it laying flat, they split it in half and you take the top part off with all the grain, they sell it to me. The bottom part, they sell it to uh cheap, lowquality leather bags. And so a huge part of our of our expense is our leather. So um people go, "Hey, why are your bags so expensive? Look, these guys over here have one looks just like yours for like half the price. And I Why is And I say, "Dude, you're asking the wrong question. Not why are mine so expensive, but why are theirs so cheap? Because my cost is is the cost it cost me is what they're selling it for. Are you kidding me?" And so you got to wonder about that. And that goes for shoes and everything. when you also Dave decided very quickly that you didn't want to do zippers, you didn't want to do buttons, magnets, velcro, snaps, like anything that you know could break or wear down and you know, you sent me one of these bags. So, this is a toiletry bag that you know, you sent me from your your company here and yeah, it's it's got a buckle on it. And so, for me, I'm kind of a pragmatist guy. Like, I like to get into and out of my bag as quickly as possible. And I, you know, I can just kind of toss it around. And so, when I saw a buckle, I was like, I don't think I own anything with a buckle that's not a belt, right? And so like, you know, it's just a little bit of a of a different mindset for for folks. And so I guess why not do the stuff that's on every other bag seemingly on the world. >> Well, you know, when I had my first when I was looking for a bag in the market before I had one made, uh, they all had zippers. Everything had a zipper cuz it's the easy route. But like, but the zipper is attached to the leather with a little bit of nylon and polyester and strips and little things and it which wears away and falls apart. And so as soon as that comes loose, then the zipper's bad. It's like having a like a billion-dollar submarine with a cardboard hatch. As soon as that thing goes out, the submarine's just a it's just a place to go diving. And uh but it's worthless. And so the same way with uh with the bags. So I said no breakable parts. Um and we have a hinge on that bag has a hinge on it, but it's not a breakable part. I mean it's it's not like a zipper or a snap or a button that will pop off. Uh, so I just wanted no breakable parts, toughest leather there is. It's lined with pig skin, which is tougher than the cow skin instead of a shiny uh fabric with a world map or something on it. Um, but I just we just made it. And then we use leather that's a little thicker than boot leather. Uh, but yet we try to make it look professional and clean and nice. Uh, but yeah, that's that's my mindset. >> So, let's go back to Okay, you've got that mindset. We're working on quality. you do your first order of bags and you're working with uh some folks in Mexico to make those bags and I I guess we can talk a little bit about that. So, so you make your first order and then then what do like what does that feel like to you cuz you're having to order these bags like kind of go through the story of okay I've ordered these first ones and I think you did five and then like you turned around and you you sold those first five. Okay. So, let's just talk about like, okay, it's not just my bag. It's I cloned my bag times five and I sold those. The process of even getting to that point. >> Yeah. So, uh the way someone gets good at doing business is by doing business. It's the same way as the way you get good at playing guitar or doing podcasts or anything is by doing it, right? And so, uh what I say is just start. Just go get a pro. So, let's say someone wants a prototype of something, go down to the upholstery shop or or a shoe maker and say, "Hey, could you could you make this for me?" But that's the best way to get going is to start if you don't start. And so many people have these all these great ideas and business plans, but they never start. So, start. That's the key to it is is starting. So, so I I had I originally had eight bags made when I when everyone was asking me when I got back from Mexico. After about three or four months, I was like, "Dude, there's a business here." >> So, I went down, had eight more made, and I stuck a sign in the back of the window, my old Land Cruiser, and two signs, one on the side, one in the back, and said, "Real cool leather backs for sale." It was I just taped it up. I printed it out at my sister's house, 8 and 1 half by 11 sheet of paper. And so, I stopped in Amarillo on the way back at night and I was going to get some food to keep me awake, some sunflower seeds and whatnot. And I came out and there's this big old pickup truck there and this this uh couple gets out and they go, "Excuse me, I saw the sign for your these real cool leather bags. Could I look at them?" And they bought one right there in then there cash for 250 bucks. I was like, "Wow, I'm rich. I go get some beef jerky." And so I and then yeah then I made it to Portland and and just hung them off the the rack of my old Land Cruiser with my laid the tailgate down for blue and I sold them all real quick and then I went back moved down to Mexico and had five more made and uh and I kind of 911 happened and I got stuck for a couple of years. It was but when I finally got some more money I went down and paid the other half. I paid half a deposit to have five made, but I never had enough money to go get them. So, a couple years later, I went a few years later went back and got them, sold them on eBay again. And um and man, they started bags started going for like 700 plus dollars uh at a time uh on the auction. So, uh I was like, uhoh, what's going on here? So, it was it was u it was really neat. But the way you get going is you you start it. Hey guys, real quick. Do you remember during the pandemic when you basically couldn't get anything shipped to your house? All this manufacturing that was supposed to be taking place in America had been shipped overseas and you just didn't notice it. And I remember a bunch of companies saying, "We're going to do everything we can to make sure that we bring manufacturing back to America." And almost none of them followed through on that promise. But for me and for all of us here at Undaunted Life, I wanted to make sure that I partnered with an American company that actually did want to prioritize American workers, their families, their communities, and a company that would keep their word. And that's why I want to remind you that we are partnered with Origin. Origin is an apparel company based in Maine. And what do they make? They make the best jiu-jitsu geese on the planet and the only jiu-jitsu geese that are made completely in America. They also make jeans. Yes, they have stretchy jeans. They also have work jeans and bootcut jeans for you guys as well. They make amazing hunting gear. And here's the thing. I know you guys like some other hunting brands, but those companies are American companies that use overseas labor to increase their profit margins on their gear, not to help you or Americans out. They also offer handmade leather boots. That does include steel toe boots and mocktoe boots. And they also make workout clothes and everyday pants and shirts and almost indestructible hoodies. And they're launching new apparel all the time. Guys, if you haven't already tried Origin stuff, you need to check them out and support a company that supports Americans. Try Origin out today by going to www. originusa.com. That's originusa.com. Use the promo code undaunted to get 10% off your order. Again, that's originus.com. Promo code undaunted to get 10% off your order. Okay. So, so Dave, you actually mentioned it a little bit earlier. Um, you kind of had this story of like you were, you know, trading, you know, work or puppies like for tacos. Like you you spent a lot of time getting into the detail of the book. So guys, you you'll have to get the book. It's in the show notes. You can check it out. But I mean, to say things were lean would be one of the most ridiculous understatements I think that we could make about your journey here. But your leanness was tied directly or your ability and willingness to survive on leanness was tied directly to your thought that no this this is going to work. Like this is a really cool bag. This is this is what I want to do and I want to get this out to the world. But I mean most of us have not had to trade, you know, our labor directly for food or or one of our products directly for food. So, let's even just go back to those days where it was like the places you were living, how you were attaining food, sometimes even having to basically take a break from food, right? And so, you would take advantage of that time and spend some time in prayer while you were fasting. But, I mean, my goodness, most of us aren't willing to experience missing a meal, uh, you know, much less, you know, go through what you went through just to get something off the ground. >> Yeah. So, uh, back when I was in college, I moved off to go to New Mexico State and I had a sleeping bag and a leather suitcase, an old torn apart leather suitcase. And then I was in just in my car and uh I I didn't have anything. I didn't have a job. I didn't know where I was going to sleep. And I got out of the car that I went to church uh Sunday morning at this church where my parents got married. And I uh and I stepped out of the car and I of course I prayed, "God, help me. Take care of me." Like I I don't have anything. I was just going to sleep in the car. And sure enough, I get out of the car and this guy goes, "Hey, you want to come sit with us? You know, you new here?" And then he introduced me to someone who said, "Hey, where do you live?" And uh in my car, you know, and he's like, "Hey, my mom has this place." And I ended up had doing yard work for rent and um and in this really beautiful place. He didn't just give me a place, he gave me like an incredible place. And I saw that God took care of me. And so I by stepping out in faith and so a lot of times you got to just step out a little bit of faith and then the next time was easier and the next time, oh it's no big deal. God always takes care of me. And you just keep stepping out in faith. And that really really helped me. So when you have a chance to step out in faith and for God to flex and show himself strong, dude, give it give him a chance to flex. And um and so that helped me to move to Wararez with my dog. And I remember one time there was no uh I didn't have any money on the horizon. I had $19 in my bank. I had a full tank of gas, full bag of dog food, and I'd paid rent. And I I had three it was three weeks until I was going to have money. So, I thought, you know what? I'm just not going to eat. That's all. Like, people do it all the time. Jesus did it for 40 days. I'm just going to I'm not going to eat. And I I have water, so that's cool. And my dog has food, so I just planned to not eat. And uh but I knew God would take care of me. And but man, was my prayer life going like big time. I had super strong prayer life at the time. because of that. And so I believe God put me in that situation intentionally to test me to see and to grow my faith. Um and then it turned out that month I made more money than I'd ever made in my whole life. Um just a few days later the insurance company called and said, "Is this Dave?" "Yeah." They go, "Uh, where do you want the check sent?" I was like, "What check?" She goes, "Oh, you remember you got in an accident like a year and a half ago or something like that?" "Yeah." She goes, "Well, we have your check." And for $1,900. What? And then all these other things kept piling on and piling. I didn't have any bags to to sell or anything. And they they hadn't sent anything to me. But God used that that lean time in my life to grow me and to grow my faith. And so now we've had times where uh we're we're like, "Who doesn't want a paycheck at Saddleback?" because I was just not good at doing business and I was irresponsible. And who doesn't want a paycheck because in two weeks we're not going to have any money to pay anyone? We're going to go bankrupt. I hope not. But we've had like two or three times like that. And until I learned how to do business better. Um but man, it those were a lot easier times because God grew my faith uh over the hard times that I had. And uh and then of course you know you have to be responsible in business. Um you have to so try to learn um about money particularly. Uh but yeah so so just just try to there's a verse in I think it's 2 Chronicles 16:9. It says for the eyes of the Lord I I have it in King James because I memorized it a long time. But the eyes of the Lord go to and fro the whole earth. The eye he's looking around the earth to show himself strong on behalf of those whose heart is loyal to him. He's looking for a chance to show himself strong to you if your heart is loyal to him. He's just looking for a chance to flex. And so give him the chance and and he likes that. >> And you gave him plenty of chances. Okay. as we go through your story and you didn't have all the stories in here, I'm sure, but you gave him plenty of chances to do that for you, but we do we do need to just go ahead and get to the story that, you know, was part of the subtitle of the book. You mentioned it earlier. There was a federality that was sent to kill you. Uh, but you, as you said in the book and all that, you decided that you were going to kill him instead. So, let's let's go back to that time. You're in Mexico. At what point did you realize, okay, this person was sent here to kill me. That's the guy. and what the heck am I going to do? Let's go through the whole story. >> Okay, so uh the lawyer who looked over the book before I before we published it said, "Uh, Dave, you can't use the guy's name." And so I forget what I named him in the book, but his name was Israel. So Israel. >> And uh and so I was selling real estate around this golf course. I was want to get some more bags made. And so I thought, "Oh, I'll just move to Aapulco and so I can sell so I can at least get down to Mexico. So they have leather workers there, right? And so I was there. I hated the job I had. I was Anyway, I ended up selling real estate around this golf course uh for the this Mexican mafia family. They're probably the kingpins in the cartel. I don't know. They had bodyguards. The chief police the chief of police of Mexico City uh fire was fired or something like that and he became their their head of security. And uh so this is the family I'm working for selling real estate around this golf course. And uh I think it was a money laundering place. And anyways, so so uh this Jewish group came out of Mexico City and they said, "Hey, we want to we want to buy have a kosher uh resort for Jews and um and so you know, we want it in this beautiful area where you are. It's a great climate." and they went to the golf course and the land was really expensive and they wanted like 40 acres so or hectares like 80 acres and so uh this guy I lived near I I known he had a bunch whole bunch of land outside of the golf course his name was Mario and Mario said hey if you ever find anyone who wants land well I'll I'll sell it to him. So, I I brought these Jews over there to look at at all this land and that Mario had and they're like, "We want it." So, my commission was 10%. Which would be it was $40,000. And so, I I was telling Mario, I said, "Hey, my boss at the country club, Mario, he wants uh he wants a cut." And he goes, "Oh, well, don't you worry about him." And he's slid his fingers across his throat. I'll just have him killed. And I go, "Oh, yeah, of course." Like, "Yeah, why didn't I think of that?" Um, so how much does that cost? And he goes, "Is at the time 2030,000 pesos, you know, two or three thousand?" And I said, "How do you do it?" And he goes, "Oh, I there's a feder some federalis I know." And and um and they'll just kill anyone for me. And I was, "Oh, okay." And I was thinking, dude, he owes me 40,000. Like, and he'll kill for two or three. Let me do the math. And I got all the way through college without one math class. >> You can do math. You can do that math. You can do enough. >> But I had to do that math real fast. I was like, he's going to save 38,000 $37,000. So I I wrote up a contract and I was like, "Hey, if I'm not here or if I'm dead, then any of these people listed on this or any family member of mine can come and collect this." And I I like two days later, I was like, "Hey, Mario, will you sign this?" And he's like, "What? Don't you trust me? I thought we were friends, you know." And he took off. He's like, and so, uh, that next night I'm at a wedding. It's outdoor wedding. And I'm standing there by my Land Cruiser. I look over my shoulder and there's this the one of Mario's sons is pointing at me with this gorilla of a man sit standing next to him. And he's pointing at me. And then I look over and he he walks away real quick and that guy starts marches right over to me and I had my tailgate down and that sort of thing and he goes, "Um, are you Dave?" I Yeah. Yeah. And he knew all this stuff about my visa, my my work visa that nobody knew. He knew when it expired. He knew all this sort of thing. I was like, "How do you know all this stuff?" I was like, "What do you do?" And he goes, "I'm a federal federal, you know." And I was like, uhoh. And he snorted some cocaine and as if it was nothing, like right in front of me. And then he just kept on going. I was like, "Oh, he this guy was sent to kill me maybe." And he goes, "You want you want a beer?" And he had a six-ack of warm beer. And I go like Modell or something. And I go, "Oh, you know, I just had a couple. I get heartburn if I drink too late." And so I I'm all right. I got to go to bed pretty soon. And he goes, "Do you want me to kill you right now?" And I go, "Um, no, obviously, but like that's not a good way to be friends. You don't threaten to kill people." So, so anyway, we So then I thought, and he said it again, "You want me to kill you right now?" And like 20 minutes later, >> and then he goes, "Does Mario pay?" And do you know Mario? I said, "Yeah, I know Mario." I said, "Dude, Dudo owes everyone money. He never pays. He's all talk. He's land rich, cash poor. You'll you'll take forever to get money out of him. And anyway, so we end up um he's like, "Take me into town." It's like 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning. It's about 3 miles away. And I go, "Oh man, this is when he's going to kill me." So So I go, "Um, no, I'm I got to go to sleep. We get a taxi." He goes, "You're taking me to into town." So I go, "Okay, well, hold on a sec. let me get my my Land Cruiser all it's a 72 uh you know FJ55 a wagon Land Cruiser and I said tell you what let me go clear some space in there. So I go to the Land Cruiser and I start there was no everything I didn't have seat belts or anything and so my first plan was to pull all the fuses out. I so I pulled I don't know seven or eight fuses out from the fuse box. They were right there. put them in my pocket and and then plan B was I'm going to put my hatchet I'm going to wedge it in a spot that when I crash the car I'm going to crash it into a tree on the way back at slow speed. Uh I didn't have seat belts and so then then I'm going to pull get out. He's going to he's going to not expect it. He's going to get hit. I'm going to pull around and I'm going to come out and I'm going to just start hacking him in the head. And then I thought, wait a sec. And then if he if if they find his body, well, I'm the last guy seen with him. And back then, the whole country is after you if you kill a a cop. And so I thought, man, I better take his head off and separate it from the body. And then so they won't know who it is. But then what if they find the head? Then they would find the dental records cuz he was in the military. So I thought I'll just smash the teeth out. And it was it dude it went down a dark path right there. >> Yeah. >> I mean dark path. So So I pulled I thought plan a pull the fuses out. Sorry can't take you into town. And um we were in a little town. And so we get there, crank the car up, starts up just like Toyotas do. And uh like the dome light didn't work, like the tail lights didn't work, the windshield wipers didn't work. all I pulled out like everything but all the vital fuses. So So anyway, longer story. Uh we end up having tacos for my last meal and which that's pretty appropriate. Like I love tacos and a warm beer again. And he goes, "Listen, I'm sleeping at your house tonight." And I was like cuz where he was supposed to sleep. And he he knew my house even. And I was like, "Okay." So, we get over there and I said, I said, "Israel, you're pretty miserable, aren't you?" And he goes, "We're sitting on the on the bed." So, we had two single beds and facing each other. And he had just snorted some more cocaine. And I said, "You're pretty miserable, huh?" And he goes, "Yeah, yeah, I am." I said, "You're are you looking for love? Like unconditional love and peace and joy in your life?" And he said, "Dude, yeah, yeah, that's what I I'm looking for that." And I said, "You know, you can only find it in a personal relationship with God, you know, through Jesus." And he goes, "Well, how can I have that? How can I have that? Can you can you tell me?" And so I started sharing the gospel with him and a longer version. And he got all distracted and he was just fidgety. And so I gave him the four spiritual law tract and it was in Spanish and I I had one I said you read the bold parts I'll read the the the not bold parts. So we read it together and at the end is this the prayer of your heart and he's like yes yes this is what I want. I said well then tell God what you just told me. So we prayed the sinner's prayer and he gave me a big hug and and then we laid down to go to sleep and I was like okay I still don't trust him. like I don't want to wake up till like a knife plunging into my chest, right? And so I was laying there and I was like, it was like 4:00 in the morning, 4:30 in the morning. And I was laying there and I was like, I'm going to just listen for his steady, heavy breathing and then I'm just going to bolt. I'm going to sneak out with my dog and and leave him there, you know? And dude, the next thing I know is this bright light right in front of me. And and and what it was was the sunlight coming through the through the window. And it uh I had fallen asleep waiting for him to breathe. And so and so then Blue woke up and shook, you know, and he saw me move and he woke up and then he snorted some more cocaine and he left and never saw him again. And my dude, within like two or three days, I was out of there. I had two years there. I was like, I not I'm not sticking around. Um and so God protected me. But I laid out the gospel for the guy. And um who knows what happened. I I'm really hoping I'll see Israel in heaven. >> Yeah. I mean, that's >> I mean, you read through that story in the book and it's just like, wait a minute. Like, come on. There's no way. But then, you know, if you're in that place to where it's like, okay, it's him or me. You know, I've talked to some guys that that have been locked up for a long time that that were in that situation to where it's him or me, and it's like you'd rather not react to the stimulus given to you from another person, you'd rather have a plan in place, and it sounds like like you had one. And then even in the midst of all that, you're you're sharing the gospel. So, ju just an incredible story. Now, even just getting back into uh to Saddleback. So you go from eBay, which you mentioned, like selling some bags on eBay and you know, you're selling some there and then you eventually make your way to where you get a big boy website, right? So you have a legitimate website and you got pictures on there and you're selling stuff on there. But in 2008, I mean, it's it's just a nice round number. You actually surpassed a million dollars in sales in 2008. And so like, let's just talk about that because you had so many opportunities to say, "This is dumb. I'm going to go back and do ministry. I'm going to go back to school and do something else. I'm going to You could have just been like, "All right, it was cool while it lasted. I sold some bags. Got to live in Mexico. Got to eat some tacos. Thought I was going to kill a guy. Didn't end up having to kill him." Like, you know, you got the stories enough to, you know, to to be cool around a campfire. But here we are in 2008. You passed a million dollars in sales. You seemingly are well on your way as a company, right? So, let's let's talk about that. >> Yeah. So, in 2006, I was down in Panama, this internet cafe, and I was checking eBay. My dad was selling the bags for me. I was getting photographs in Panama and Costa Rica of my bags and uh just had a point andoot camera and then I checked MySpace after I checked eBay and there was this pretty girl on there and she talked about how much she loved the Lord and and I was like wow she is beautiful and so uh I chatted with her she said where's Molten Bible College where I went to school And and so uh so I chatted with her uh and when I got back up to the US, I I flew down to see her. Uh we started kissing and then like 6 months later, we got married and uh and her name is Susette. Man, I got a great wife and she's a firecracker. And our marriage counselor, he says, he has a lot of stuff that we, you know, >> we actually had a couple you had a couple of pre-marriage counselors. one uh said, "Y'all probably shouldn't be married." And the next one's like, "Nah, don't worry about it. You'll be fine. Just you got to learn how to deal with some conflict here." >> Yeah. So, so uh my marriage, God gives us what he gives us spouses because he wants us to to be self less self-centered and be others focused, other centered. And so, um so I have to and here's something by the way, recently I realized I haven't been serving my family. I asked my daughter to get me a a one of those bubbly waters the other day and she was like 17. She goes, she's 18 now and she goes, "Dad, give me a break. You should get it yourself." And I was like, "Man, what have I done wrong? My my my kids don't serve." And then I thought, "Wait a second. I don't serve. I'm serving the church as a whole. I'm serving my company and the the employees and but I'm not serving my wife and kids and I haven't given my kids an example of that very much and you know you have to serve or else they take the kids away if you don't serve you know that kind of thing but but like I don't go and get get extra milk or the dog tears up the trash that my daughter leaves out like I'm like suck to be you but instead of go clean it up for her and serve her and I I just done a poor job of serving and in little ways in my wife and my kids and I was like what's wrong with me? So about 6 months ago, God put it on there to start serving her and making the bed in the morning. Sometimes she'd go to the bathroom and I try and get it made before she got back. And man, she was purring when I when I do that. And I started just doing these little things and not when it's convenient for me too, but just serving her and rubbing her feet with lotion and out of nowhere and she's like, "What's wrong? Who are you? What'd you do with Dave?" And uh so I started serving them. Anyway, so I got my wife 2006 and uh and uh we've been married for 18 years now. Uh 15 of those happily. So first three years sucked. The first three years were like, man, fight, fight fight happy happy happy fight fight fight happy happy happy. And um and the kids we had uh the kids had about 50. So Cella was born about 9 months and 15 minutes after we got married. And uh she had about she had about uh 50 pass 50 stamps on her passport when she was five when we redid her new passport. Uh we were going I mean we were going after it and getting photos and videos but more Rwanda. Um but anyway 2008 we started our own factory and so that down in Mexico um because nobody cares as much about your stuff as you do, >> right? And so, um, we started the factory, um, and man, we just had so much money pouring in. We couldn't believe it. But I didn't know how to do business. And yeah, we started that factory and dude, it was fantastic. And um, there's a whole lot here. But I started feeling guilty because I wasn't doing ministry anymore. And I was like, and and some people had seen that in me and that I was way off on that that I was like, I got to impress people with my spirituality and and I'm a first class Christian and I'm not given to money and that sort of thing. But then I had a whole bunch of money coming in. Now, it was this horrible like dilemma. But God was God was patient with me and my spiritual pride. I really wanted to impress people with how spiritual I was. And so I'd give up everything. And that's one of the signs of of uh spiritual pride. And um yeah, so that was about that time and it was really uncomfortable for me that I was doing full-time business instead of full-time ministry when really God put me into a God put me into a leather ministry instead. and he puts people into a podcast ministry or he puts people into a banking ministry or an insurance ministry or garbage collection ministry or an electrical ministry and that's the min or a student ministry. Uh he puts us in a place specifically for us to grow the kingdom and not just to be nice to people. Jesus Jesus didn't come to make Rome a nicer place to live. He came to win the lost. He came to grow the kingdom and and and then he gave that ministry to us when he left. He gave us his spirit and said, "Hey, I started it and I made the way for it to happen. Now you guys, you keep doing it." And and so it's whether you have a you're in leather or whatever you're in. Or if you if God does put you into a vocational ministry where a church pays you or like a missionary thing, um man, just do ministry, >> man. And I co-sign that. I I talk to people all the time. They feel like, "Oh, I don't have the word pastor in my title, so I'm not in ministry." It's like, bro, you uh work at a place that's a cubicle farm and there's 10 people that are in your little area and like that's your world. Like that's your ministry world. Like the neighborhood you live in, all these places you are, you have been placed in those places and it's just a shift of mindset. Like you go to the jiu-jitsu gym, you go to your kids T-ball game, you you're at the grocery store in your neighborhood. Like th those are all the things. Those are your areas where you can have influence on individuals and where the gospel can be shown and shared with them. And so like that's been a center point for your business and as you elucidate in the book and again guys you're going to have to get a copy of the book to get all the stories but many ups and downs in in the book uh you know with you know people that betrayed you and you know losing money and you know selling a lot of bags but not having a lot in the bank. uh you get into all that, but also some of the the service side, you know, starting a daycare for some of your workers so that they could, you know, have have, you know, daycare close by and have their kids close by in so that they could work well for you. You know, you talked about stuff that you you did in Africa and you get into all that detail in the book and it almost felt like in terms of the business, there was a little bit of a almost romantic culminating moment when you got to work with a company on a very very special project where it was kind of putting something that you loved and respected the engineering of a Toyota and also the love and respect and the engineering of a saddleback leather co bag. And so it's kind of a long story, but it it culminated in the 1795 limited edition Toyota Tundra. There I think there are 1500 of those made. I'm pretty sure you're sitting in one right now because whenever you turned the camera earlier, I thought I recognized the color of the seats there. And so like let's just talk about that. You you have like this love affair with the with the Toyota, the Land Cruisers and all that. And then at some point you're working with Toyota to make a limited run of trucks with your leather inside of it. How freaking cool is that, >> dude? That God totally played a a Jedi mind trick on those guys. They're like, "You will like working with Dave." >> And they did. They ended up doing >> We will Yeah. So, I I went to this event and here's part of business. You have to start. You have to You got to like You got to move. God doesn't direct a ship that's not moving. >> Yeah. So, I go to this uh automotive event here in Texas down by Austin and and all the auto manufacturers were there and Toyota was there and the head of Land Cruiser North America was there and it was like for the Texas Truck of the Year, which is kind of like America's truck of the year kind of thing. And so I said to said to the guy at dinner like he just passed the microphone, everyone was doing introductions. I went straight to his table while everyone else was talking. I knelt down there. I go, "Hey, I have a company called Saddleback Leather, and we're the Toyota Land Cruiser of the leather bag world." I said, I said, "You can bend them, but you can't break them." And one day I am going to have a Saddleback Leather Edition Toyota Land Cruiser. And he smiled and he goes, "Yeah, uh, I don't think so. We sell every Land Cruiser we can get our hands on and so we don't we don't need that." And he and then later, so the next day I went over to their booth, their tent thing, and the guy goes and he comes up to me and he goes, "Hey Dave, we looked at your site last night, your company, and we're really impressed." He said, "I want to introduce you to this guy over the Tundra and the Toyota Tundra." And the guy comes over and he goes, and we talked and he goes, "And in fact, that guy is going with us to Rwanda next month or in October." uh that the guy who that guy from Tundra and I said he said would you be interested in doing a saddleback leather edition Toyota Tundra and I was thinking baby steps baby steps to the Land Cruiser but I go let me think about it for a sec. Yes. >> So yeah. >> So I probably should pray about it first but like no. Yes. Yes. I I I am interested. Turns out he's a believer too. And so, uh, that got the nod from up in the the heads in Japan. And, um, and so they said, "Hey, could you design the seats?" Uh, so I said, "Yeah, I'll work with this tannery to get the right leather, this German tannery that's by our factory." And, uh, so our leather's like twice as thick as everyone else's leather. Um, almost twice as thick. And it's, uh, super, it has veins on it. And the Germans were like, "It's impossible. We can't do that. Everyone wants that. We can't do that and still seal it and still have it that thick and still be comfortable and all these things." I was like, "Come on, you guys are Germans. You can do anything." And you can engineer anything. So, sure enough, they got it. We were all high-fiving, angels were singing. It was like this beautiful moment. And and then I designed the interior with their designer and I put lines on it. And in fact, you want to see it? >> Yeah. Let's give us a look around. >> So, here's our saddle back curve here. Um, we have these raw edges uh on the seats. The designer goes, "Dude, I'm not even allowed to to think like that." And then we have these uh seats in the back. They have pockets like our has our our saddle back curve and it has the >> it has the uh the our three rivets, which we always do. Um, yeah. It's got this cool handle here. Ain't this great, >> dude? That's the whole thing. >> Yeah, it's a real super blessing. Um, here's here's my here's my office right now. And >> not a bad office. >> It's not bad. It smells really nice. And uh, so yeah, so they finally went through and actually there were a couple times they said three times it just the heartbeat stopped on it because everyone has to agree on it. So, and I believe that God puts things in front of us and it's like, "Hey, I want this to happen with you." And if if it's not you, well, I'll have it happen. It just won't be it'll be with someone else. But I believe that he likes us to pray about things and depend on him for these things. So, he laid it out there. We prayed as a company. We have a prayer every Monday with our leadership. We prayed and prayed for for years for this thing, like every single week. And then it and one one of the guys was telling me he was his the guy next to him on this airplane. They were really he was really against it and they had to have a buyin from marketing and PR and distribution and manufacturing. Everyone had to be in in it together to to get it approved. And this guy's like, "Dude, this guy's got a loud mouth and like it's a small company. Who even knows about these guys? And this is stupid. It's I don't think it's a good idea. I'm completely against it. So they get up from their seats in the airplane and the guy in front of them had a saddleback briefcase and and so the guy who wanted it to happen and he tapped him on the shoulder said, "Hey, excuse me. Is that a saddleback briefcase?" And he goes, "Oh, dude. Yes, I love this thing. I have like eight bags. In fact, my brother-in-law, he started me." And then at the office now, everyone has one at the office because they're so cool. The company, the fight over when you're dead. And the guy's like, "Okay, okay, we'll go for it. I'm on board." So God did God just made it. He pushed it through and made it happen. Really beautiful. >> Looks gorgeous. You're working with a company that, you know, you couldn't have ever even thought in your dreams you would have worked worked with in that way. Is there any chance there will be a Land Cruiser edition at some point? I mean, that that would be a baby step from from a Tundra to the eventual goal here, but have there any been any discussions for that? No, no. Sadly, sadly, um there there were some people who were against me, uh uh who were like, "Dude, he's he's got he's too religious and stuff, like we can't like." So, this is a cool story. So, get this. Um, they didn't put our name on it because there's an aftermarket car company, seat seat car company that that named their aftermarket leather seat covers Saddleback leather seat covers. And so saddleback leather seat covers. And they said, "Did you know about this?" I said, "Well, yeah. I told them like 10 years ago to stop calling it that cuz it it's most seats are most leather seats in cars are um 65% vinyl and 35% leather. So it's leather seating surface. It's where from the back of your knees up to your shoulder blades and then the rest of the seat is is vinyl. And so these guys had these, you know, gez cheap seats. And they said, "We'll be sued the the the second that we launched this, we'll be sued by those guys for having saddleback leather interior uh because they own the trademark on that." And so we didn't get our name on it, but they called me into the office a couple years before it launched. And there were this big meeting like like u maybe there were eight people in the room and then five on the meeting, but all executives and managers and and but before I tell you this, here's the gospel. Okay, this is the simple, plain, easy gospel. Um 1 Corinthians 15, Paul said this. He said, because a lot of people, what's the gospel? What's the gospel? The gospel is literally it's it's it's the word is good message. The good message. Okay? The good message about grace, the good message about God, the good message about the kingdom of God, the good message, right? And so Paul said this. He said, "Here's the gospel by which you're saved. Here's how because you believed it. And it's a it's the most important thing. It's the first most importance. But here it is." And then he laid it out. He said, "Jesus died for your sins. He was buried. And on the third day, he rose again." That's it. That is the gospel. That Jesus died for your sins. He was buried. And on the third day, he rose again. And if you believe that with your whole heart, you're a believer. Period. That's just what it is. And that was before they had Romans 3:23 and 6:23 and John 3:16 and all the verses and all the illustrations of the bridge to the gap and all. Those are good things to learn, but those are just complicating what the gospel is. And those are really important to know and to explain to people later, but the gospel is just it's really it's it's Christmas and Easter really. It's e it's just Easter. And so um so here so now you know so I walk into this meeting and they said hey Dave we have some questions you have some guns on your website a lot of customers you know send in pictures with their guns and rifles and all that sort of thing. So we we post those all over our website and they're like they said Dave our customers they just want us to make cars that just don't break. Just give them reliable cars. Don't go political. Don't go religious. Don't go don't take stances on things. just build cars, please. And so they said, the direction from higher up is none of that. And they said, so we noticed that you're really religious. And I was like, oh, that's great. I'm glad you guys noticed cuz if I didn't, you didn't notice. You didn't know that I was a believer. >> Yeah, >> that'd be lame of me. Like, it means I don't even care about it much. And they go, "Yeah, so can you talk to us about that?" And I was like, "Yeah, so you guys have nothing to worry about." I said, 'So, here's the thing. I have this really cool relationship with God and it's it's real personal and and it's brought me a lot of fulfillment and a lot of peace and joy. And now I'm preaching to them, right? A lot of peace and joy in my life, even in storms. Yeah, sucky things happen, but yeah, like it's really cool. And and for me to if what I have if someone else could if it could help them, that'd be really great. But if I hid if I hid that from people, that would be unloving. That would be wrong of me to do that if I if what I believe because I truly believe it's true. And so we'd have to end the relationship today if that were to if you guys didn't want me to if you wanted me to shut my mouth about something that's so important to me. I said, "But really, I just talk about the two government holidays, Christmas and Easter. You know, the you know the holidays that the government says that we celebrate." And so, you know, Christmas when when God sent his son because he loved us so much and the greatest gift ever and now we give gifts to each other is like representing that. And then Easter when Jesus when he died for our sins because he wanted us in heaven with him so much. He loved us that much. And then he was buried and then on the third day he was raised again. And like man, I just believe that with my whole heart and it changed my life. Okay. So I just shared the gospel with the whole room. All right? And that Jesus that he died for my sins, that he was buried, and on the third day he rose again. That's the gospel. Anyone who adds more to that, they're complicating it. And so it's good to understand like the other parts of it, but according to Paul, that is the gospel. And these these were people who were totally illiterate in back in the day. And they didn't they didn't they couldn't even read. 99% of people couldn't even read and they didn't have a pocket, you know, Bible. They didn't have anything. Most of those people and most people had never even seen the Hebrew scriptures. And the church was exploding in growth because people were telling the good message. Hey, guess what? This guy Jesus, he paid for our sins when he died on the cross and then he was buried on the third day. Dude, I swear he rose again. And now, and I believe it, man. I'm counting on it. That's the gospel. So Toyota goes the guy main guy who was totally against me. He he looked up and down the table. He goes, "Okay." Everyone's like shrugging like, "Yeah, >> okay. I guess that's okay. Government holidays, you know." And I said, and I just sent out in my newsletter the Christmas story out of Luke chapter 2. And then we post some public domain uh paintings and stuff like that. And then the Christmas the story the Easter story and we post paintings of Rimbrandt and these classic works of art and but I don't I just lay it there for people to read what we're celebrating and they go okay that's fine dude >> so there's still a door open yeah with with Toyota it's not like it was slam shut on you but there just no immediate plans like >> right no immediate plans which would be super cool but no immediate plans right now >> what you just got to do is you just got to make a one of one, right? So, if you want them to really fight over it when you're dead, you just go march yourself down to Toyota. You get you a Land Cruiser and then you just pull it in that new headquarters of you, which of yours, which we'll we'll that'll be our last question here in a second. And then you just you trick it out yourself, right? And so, you just make everything that can be leather that makes sense to be leather. You just do it that way, right? And say, "Hey, we don't have to sell 1500 of these. We'll just have one." You know what? You're right. I I do need to do that. >> It's certainly possible. >> Myself. >> Yeah. So, anyway, >> you don't have to trade your your time for tacos. Like, you'll you have a staff and people that could like, you know, make it happen for you. >> I You know what? I did an old Land Rover that I had one with a tire on the hood way back 2010. I got one and um and I I took the seats down to Mexico and I said, "Here, wrap these in leather, please." Dude, it was sweet. The thing did you know why the British don't make televisions anymore? >> No idea. >> They can't figure out how to how to make them leak oil. >> That That is the thing with English cars, >> dude. It was broken all the time. But man, were my seats sweet. >> You had some sweet seats. So there. So you got an idea there. But, you know, we are we are running out of time here, Dave. So, I do want to hear about the new Saddleback Leather Company headquarters because this something you've been working on for a long time signaling, but it looks like we've arrived. Y'all y'all are there. Y'all have moved in according to you. So, let's hear about this because I'm sure before you started building it, you prayed to God, may this be the greatest and coolest headquarters for any company in the world. So, let's hear about it. >> Yeah. So, uh, we're we have we're building four buildings. Um, and one the main showroom that that's about 5,000 square ft. The main showroom is made out of solid leather bricks, solid leather bales. >> So, so you know those uh you know how like a hay bale, you sit on a hay bale or something, you know, you know, whatever runs, you know, pumpkin, you know, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. And so I was like, if they can do that, and I've seen them I've seen them kind of bail clothing and they put it in containers, ship it overseas to poor places. And I was like, okay, if you can do that, then I bet we could bail our scrap leather. And so we've been bailing scrap leather, these two foot long bricks, and each one's about 135, 140 lbs. And um and we're just going to brick layer the building. It'll have metal like steel beams going up and then we're filling all the filling all around that the whole entire building two foot thick walls um of leather. And so alto together it's it's uh almost a half million pounds of leather. Uh it's 29,250 cows of leather. It is. It is. I think it's like $4.5 million of leather if it were retail. We're getting scrap leather from our factory and then other factories in our town. And they're just trying to get rid of all their scrap when they're making shoes and bags and jackets, hats. >> And so we just get that scrap for for pennies, pesos, and then we put it >> Oh, hold on. [Music] Sorry about that. >> All good. >> My car was beeping because it's been on too long. >> Hey, you know this is this is the most Dave Mson interview of all times. Like you guys didn't know this cuz we edit it out. This is like your third location for this interview and of course the car alarm would go off. But yeah, go ahead. So So you're getting all the scraps from the other places? >> Yeah. So we're getting the scraps from all these other places and we're bailing and we went got a bailing machine. It cost us about $6,000 to get the bailing machine. I have two now and one for two different size bricks. Um, we're going to have swinging bridges between the buildings. We have four buildings. We're having gigantic fireplaces. Every building has two has an indoor and outdoor fireplace that are 7 ft wide and 5 1/2 ft tall. Just these big monster walk-in fireplaces. And then um if you're a horse jockey. And then we have um and then we have a spiral staircase. We're going to have a fireman's pole come down from the lofts up above. Catwalks down the middle. Secret rooms where you pull on the the candlestick or something like that and the the door opens in the bookshelf. Uh we have a wardrobe we're going we I'm making we already have the wardrobe and you open it up bunch of coats. You slide them aside. You go back to the next one. slide them aside and then the wall just slides open into the into the secret room where my original bag is sitting um on directional lights. Uh we're doing a cave. We have a an amphitheater that we're getting rid of all the rocks and dirt that they're excavating and we're going to make a big amphitheater. Got medium small small amphitheater and it's going to have a cave underneath it. And so we're planning all you you pile up dirt and then you put concrete around it and bricks, whatever, and then you take out the dirt and you have a cave. And um we have all kinds of cool. So I don't want it gimmicky, but it's going to be and it's beautiful. I mean, so I built it on Minecraft to cuz I didn't know how to like get these ideas out. So, I put it in Minecraft to get the windows right and stuff. And on every door, we have these King Kong doors, like 12 foot doors, >> 10 foot wide, and and then there are two of them. And then inside of them are big, heavy doors, and they're like 4 in thick. And above each one, each door in Latin, there are eight doors altogether. In Latin, when you pull up into the driveway into the parking lot, it says it says egoum luke's mundi, which is in Latin, I am the light of the world. And then there's another one, egoum, I am the good shepherd. I am the vine, true vine. I am the all this the seven I ams of of John in Latin. And it'll make people ask. And uh we don't put a fish on our sign or anything like that. I don't like that. Like buy from us cuz we're Christians. I can't stand it when people do that. Makes me think there's a body in the trunk or something. >> But but like um and then the last one above our showroom door, it says uh when I forget how it goes, but before Abraham was, I am. And it's Jesus's claim to be God himself. And but they're it's they came out super beautiful in Latin font and it's really anyway the whole whole place is going to be uh I figure if Jesus had a had a business he'd probably do leather cuz it's cool and you can make beautiful things with it and he would do it really high quality and his his headquarters would be like coolest in the world. So, I prayed that God would get that more people would come into the kingdom because of our headquarters than any other headquarters in the world. That's what I want. And and I I pray that it' be the coolest one uh in the whole world. And I I'm just asking. It's It's free to ask. So, >> it's free to ask. And man, it sounds good. And I could I could tell you I could smell it as you were describing cuz like I said like I can literally just pull this little bitty bag up to me and open it and I I mean you get just that little little plume little plume of happiness from the smell of the leather. And so it it's been incredible what you've been able to to build especially from where you went and all the bumps along the way. Again, you you really get into all that there in the book. But Dave, uh that's all for me. Is there anything else you want to get off your chest? >> Uh you know what? I kind of said everything. I don't have anything else to say except this one reminder. Jesus died for your sins. He was buried and on the third day he rose again. And I took our neighbor over to a baseball game and he was real quick end with this story. Yeah. >> He was going he was going to into his senior year in high school. >> And so I I invited them my son and I went with him and his grandpa and we're sitting there watching the game the Rangers game. We're the official leather goods of the Texas Rangers. And so he we're sitting there and I said, "So y'all religious? You go to church or anything?" And he goes, "No, dude. That's not us. We we've never done that." I said, "Okay." Um, so we stopped. I didn't I we kept on. And like an hour later, I go, "You know, the reason we do what we do is because we want to uh tell the greatest story that's ever been told." I said, "When I heard about it, man, changed my life. Fulfillment, peace, joy, all that stuff." And he goes, "What story is that?" And I said, "Oh, it's like Christmas and Easter. It happened a couple thousand years ago." I said, "God sent his son because he loved us so much." And and then his son died on the cross to pay for our sins so that we wouldn't have to so we could be in heaven with him forever. And then they buried him and on the third day he rose again. And man, I believe it. If I got hit in the head right now with a baseball, man, and and I'm standing before God and he goes, "Hey, Dave. Hey, why should I let you through these pearly gates here in heaven?" I would just tell him, "I believed you. You told me your son paid for all my sins. That's all I got. I was counting on it being true. I put I trusted you, you know, put my faith in you." And the kid says, right, by the way, important. Right before school started, the kid said, "Oh, that's cool. I've never heard it like that before. So I called him up for Christmas and said, "You want to come to church with me?" And he goes, "Oh, I'm going to go to my church." And I go, "Your church? >> Your church? Where are you going?" He told me to some non-denominational church. And I said, "Could I suggest you read the the the Luke chapter 2 for the Christmas story to your family? Read it out loud to your family." And he said, "You know, that's what my Fellowship of Christian Athletes leader told me we should do." And I said, "How long you been going to FCA?" And he said, "Oh, ever since school started, like a week or two after we went to the baseball game." >> Yeah. >> And all I did was share the gospel with him. And it's God's job to open the heart. Open his heart. But all I did was share the gospel. And I didn't complicate it. I didn't There are a lot of different things you can do to complicate it. I just told the story, the good message that Jesus paid for all of our sins and he was buried and on third day rose again. And that is the gospel of Jesus. That's the good message. So share that and you can share it with your neighbor over the what you got big plans for Christmas, you got big plans for Easter, you can just work it into conversations, but share the gospel. Super important. Share the gospel. >> Can't think of a better place to leave it there, man. Thank you, Dave. I appreciate it. All right, thanks Kyle. >> There you go guys. I hope you enjoyed the interview today. But before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost at Undaunted Life. Our mission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges a spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. So the link's for you. I've got a link to Amazon where you can buy they'll fight over it when you're dead. There's also a link to the Saddleback Leather Company website so you can go and check out their products. Some of just I mean just the most insane leather products you've ever seen in your life. Also, there's a link to Dave's website and Saddleback's YouTube channel. Thank you for listening to this podcast. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate, and leave us a positive five-star review. If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an email to info@unton.life. That's info@undantton.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way. Just go to www.undton.life. And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for our content. The music on this podcast is their song Perpetual, which is off their self-titled debut album on Faceown Records. The links are in the description. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness. Keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Keep seeking the Lion of Judah. [Music]