0:00
I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it. Our guys today, I've got a special guest
0:25
on the podcast. Her name is Catherine Glenn Foster. She is the president and CEO of America
0:29
Watkins United for life. That is a URL for short. She got her law degree from Georgetown
0:34
and has spent, you know, essentially her entire career working for the cause of life. And I
0:38
actually want to read this little snippet from her bio because I think it will help
0:41
you understand kind of what she does and how a URL operates. So this is directly from their
0:45
website. AUL's legal strategists have been involved in every pro life case before the
0:50
U.S. Supreme Court since Roe v. Wade. AUL is the pioneer of the state based model legislative
0:55
strategy which works to save lives today while undermining the so called reliance in interests
1:01
adopted by the Supreme Court in Planned Parenthood v. Casey, the false idea that women rely on
1:06
abortion to succeed in American life. Under Foster's leadership, AUL pursues and refines
1:10
a mother child strategy that looks at the interests and vulnerabilities of both protecting
1:15
them from abortion industry abuses. So earlier this year, and this is when she really kind
1:20
of, you know, came on my radar because she went viral because she absolutely destroyed
1:25
Democrat House of Representatives member from Maryland, a guy named Jamie Raskin during
1:29
a house committee on the judiciary hearing called revoking your rights, the ongoing crisis
1:34
in abortion care access. So this, this happened after the leaked draft decision from Alito
1:39
by Politico. And this was before the Roe v. Wade decision. But I mean, this clip is the
1:43
main reason why I know that she exists and that aUL exists. And so we got her on the show,
1:47
I reached out to her that day, the day I saw the video. But on this podcast, we kind of
1:50
talk about how she got into life, you know, her reaction to the leak from Politico, the
1:55
reaction to the Dobbs decision being handed down, but most importantly, like Roe being
1:58
dead, what do we do now? What should the focus be on now? And then we kind of got her take
2:03
on how to engage a lot of pro abortion arguments. So you're going to hear her engage in a similar
2:07
way that I've done on previous episodes. But then one very important part of the podcast,
2:11
I asked her about the criminalization of everyone in the abortion process, because there are
2:15
currently no laws on the books in any state that allow for a criminalization of anybody
2:19
other than the doctor that performs the abortion. So not for the woman seeking the abortion,
2:23
the, you know, boyfriend that knocked her up or the husband that's, you know, the wanting
2:27
her to do this or the family members, the people that dropped her off. Nobody else is
2:31
being brought up on these charges. I obviously vehemently disagree with that, but she's going
2:34
to give you her opinion on that. So guys, I had a lot of fun with her today. It was a
2:37
lot of great information, but I don't want to keep her from you any longer. So without
2:41
further ado, let's get into it. Catherine Glenn Foster, welcome to an Daunted Life, a
2:45
Man's podcast. Pleasure to be here. I'm happy to have you on because as I said in the introduction,
2:51
you went viral a few weeks ago and then you came on my radar, but we got a lot of ground
2:55
to cover before we get to that. And I'm sure you've been asked about that a million times,
2:57
but we will get there. So in a generic, easy place to start, let's start 30,000 foot view.
3:02
What kind of got you into this overall fight in terms of the life issue? Yeah, I mean, for
3:08
me, it's personal. It's personal because when I was 19 years old, I had an abortion. I found
3:15
out that I was pregnant right after Christmas break. I got back to college, thought I was
3:20
sick, went to the health center, and they said, you know what, just to be sure, before
3:24
we give you these meds, let's just make sure you're not pregnant. I'm 19. I think I'm invincible.
3:29
I'm like, why would you, would you even ask me that? Of course, I'm not pregnant. But
3:34
I took the test, it came back positive and everything changed. You know, I just, I didn't
3:40
even know how to react. I don't think that the workers there at the clinic knew how to
3:45
react either. You could see in their eyes that they were thinking something, but they
3:51
didn't say it. I don't know what that was, but they just, they didn't say anything supportive
3:57
or offer resources or anything. They just said, if you need to make a call, there's
4:01
the phone. So I called my then boyfriend. I said, I just took a test and his response
4:08
was underwhelming. He just said, you know, okay, and that was pretty much it. And so I
4:16
was left to just Google by myself that night and find out, you know, basically pregnant.
4:23
What do I do? And, and now you get pregnancy centers. If you Google that, but at the time
4:28
you just got abortion clinics. And so I didn't know what to do. I didn't know where to turn.
4:32
I didn't know about any resources. I was scared to tell my mom she'd been a single mom most
4:36
to my childhood. I'm an only child. And so I, I just made an appointment and thought,
4:42
okay, I'll, I'll get more information. I'll see what to do. And so I went there. And from
4:48
the time I walked through those doors, nothing was the same and nothing was, nothing was
4:54
supportive. Nothing was empowering. You know, you ask questions and they don't give you
4:59
answers and they push you off. And is this assembly line process, they do an ultrasound,
5:04
they have to make sure that, you know, that they know, you know, you are in fact pregnant
5:08
and how far along you are, what procedure, make sure it's not a topic. But they don't
5:12
let you see it. I even asked, I said, you know, I don't know what I want here. I'm trying
5:17
to make a decision. Can you just turn the screen towards me? And they said, no, it was
5:22
against procedures and just sent me on to the next room. And then, um, finally, I'm
5:27
lying on the abortion table. And, um, and I, I just knew it was wrong. I knew I couldn't
5:34
go through with it. Um, and so I said, keep the money, whatever, just, you know, let me
5:39
up. It's wrong for me. Um, and they didn't let me, they called for help. They called
5:43
for backup and ended up holding me down and, um, enforceably aborting my child. Um, from
5:51
that point forward, I didn't really know what to call it, but I knew I was against whatever
5:55
that was. Um, didn't know there was a pro life movement and my best friend in like seventh
5:59
grade had been pro life, but that's all I knew. Um, and so from that point forward,
6:05
I, I knew that that was wrong about a month later. I'm a mama's girl. I told my mom,
6:10
I let her know what did, um, what had happened. And she was so supportive and helped get me
6:16
counseling and just so loving. But, um, but it was, um, it was a long period of healing
6:23
until finally I was, um, I would just say called by God to go to law school. And I didn't
6:30
know why, but, um, but it was during orientation that it was just, it became crystal clear
6:36
to me. You know, just, it was on my heart. You know, you're supposed to help women like
6:41
you. You're supposed to try to help make sure that no other woman is in a position like
6:46
you were just alone, unsupported. No ideas, no options, no real choice. Just stuck in
6:54
the abortion pipeline. And so the abortion pipeline, let's talk a little bit more about
6:58
that. And then we need to talk about obviously talk about doves and talk, talk about some
7:02
of the work that you're doing. So that's the story I've heard from a lot of people is like
7:06
you have now, there are a lot of women that, you know, there are, there abortions are
7:09
repeat abortions. It's like 40, 45% of abortions are repeat abortions. So I don't think most
7:13
of these women that are pretending like they didn't know what was happening, that that's
7:16
necessarily accurate. But there are people that get in the position where you're in where
7:19
it's like, you have some [inaudible] bag that's just like, yeah, I don't know. I don't know
7:22
what you should do. And you don't feel like you can talk to mom or dad is part of the
7:25
problem, Catherine, that we don't have these discussions beforehand, right? Because I'm,
7:30
I'm an abstinence only type of person, but then there are people that obviously go outside
7:34
of that and make their own decisions as you did as millions and millions of people do
7:37
in this country all the time. But there's a lot of these discussions to where it's like
7:41
kids default to the internet, or they default to idiots on social media, because they don't
7:46
have anyone they can talk to. There's not a strong man in their life or strong woman
7:50
in their life or, or a pastor or a coach or anybody that they feel like they can talk
7:54
to before it's just like going right into the pipeline. Do you feel like that's getting
7:57
better? Is that still kind of a main struggle? Kind of hop in wherever you want?
8:01
Yeah, a lot to unpack there. I think it's it's better in some ways. We're talking about
8:08
abortion more. People are at least aware of it. And the more people know what abortion
8:13
is and what it does, the more supportive they are of life. Culturally, if we're talking
8:20
about broader cultural issues, I think we still have those same problems. People are
8:24
more aware than they were of pregnancy centers, but they all end up abortion. But they also
8:31
are hearing a lot from mainstream media just outright lies saying that the pregnancy centers
8:36
are are going to lie to you or like trick you when pregnancy centers are there staffed
8:42
by volunteers, they're to distribute diapers and baby formula and cribs and car seats
8:49
and and provide job training and an emotional support and all of it, whether you choose
8:54
life or choose abortion, no matter what your path is, pregnancy centers are there to help
8:59
and walk with you through that baby's life. We're not even just talking about to birth.
9:04
We're talking about, you know, few years and maybe 18 years, those pregnancy centers
9:08
are there to help that young woman and that family. In fact, I want to really quickly
9:14
share with you because because I think this this story would really interest your listeners.
9:20
I was down there in Florida on like in November. I was speaking at a couple of pregnancy center
9:25
banklets and I met a man who runs the men's ministry at this pregnancy center and he was
9:32
just he was on fire. He was amazing. He had an abortion in his past, you know, he was
9:39
in a relationship where the young woman had an abortion. And so he had a real heart for
9:43
this. This is his dedication and he would share that when young men would come into that that
9:48
pregnancy center, you know, a lot of times what they do is they'll they'll separate the
9:54
young woman and the young man for just a couple of minutes. You know, when I was when I was
9:58
going through the abortion, they just they separated us. There was no contact. I'm like
10:03
back alone for an hour plus not like that in a pregnancy center. You know, they keep everyone
10:09
together because a lot of times that young man, you know, he recognizes he's a dad, you
10:14
know, he wants to protect that life. He just, you know, he's been told by the culture, you
10:18
know, it's not a man's choice. It's a decision between a woman and her doctor. But what they
10:23
do is they'll just separate them for a minute while she's getting ready for the ultrasound
10:27
because, you know, they need to check, you know, is there abuse? Is there coercion? You
10:31
know, just like they do it, you know, an OBGYN's office just to make sure that she's doing
10:35
okay. And this is a good guy. And so they separate him for just a couple minutes. And
10:40
this man I was talking to he just he snags that young man and gets him in his office
10:44
right across the the hall from the ultrasound room. And he said when the young man gets
10:49
in there, a lot of times he's just he's defeated because he's been he's been told the lie,
10:53
right? He's been told he has no voice. He's slumped over in his chair. He's depressed.
10:58
He's, you know, what do I do? And I'm just here. I'm along for the right. And so, and
11:04
so this this man, he counsels the young men. He shares with them their proper role in society
11:11
in the community. Biblically, you know, what should they be doing? Should they be leading?
11:16
Should they be, you know, really standing strong and standing up for their for their
11:21
new family? Really? And the young man will say, you know, you don't care about me. You
11:26
just care about this baby. And the man I was talking to, he said, no, I care about you,
11:32
because I know if I get to you, if I get you where you need to be, you know, mentally and,
11:38
you know, and emotionally and spiritually, then I get all three of you because you're
11:41
going to lead that young woman and the two of you together are going to raise this child
11:46
or at least give this child life and hope. And that's going to transform the whole community.
11:51
That's how we shift nations, right? And he said, by the time that young man leaves his
11:56
office so often, you know, their shoulders are back, they're upright, they're strong,
12:00
they're ready. And so that's what we need. You know, that's we need the encouragement.
12:04
We need the counsel from our teachers, our coaches, absolutely our dads and our moms,
12:10
but we need it from everyone around us. And unfortunately in our society, I think it's
12:14
a broader issue where people just, they've been told, you know, take it back, see it's
12:19
all relative, you know, do what you want. And that's the wrong message. That's not how
12:23
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12:53
When I think I heard someone saying this morning, one of the things that people in political
12:57
left try to do is they're trying to separate you from your identity in your religion. They're
13:01
trying to separate you from your national identity. And now they're trying to separate
13:04
you from your gender identity. And I don't mean the spectrum. I mean either male or female
13:09
and the roles that come in those types of things. The whole time you're talking, I'm
13:12
like, gosh, this all sounds super bigoted, you know, telling men to be men and telling
13:15
them to step up and, you know, stand up straight with their shoulders back as Jordan Peterson
13:19
would say. But I love that. I love that. That's a really good calling for a lot of men and
13:24
a lot of churches right now that were caught flat footed last Friday. I don't know exactly
13:28
when this is going to come out, but they were caught flat footed when the adopt decision
13:31
came out. And they're like, Oh, crap, we never thought this was going to happen. And now we
13:34
got we got to do something like, and that's the thing that's so funny is people talk about
13:37
Planned Parenthood and how much they help women. Planned Parenthood isn't doing any of those
13:41
things. They're not giving out diapers. They're not helping women with rent assistance assistance
13:45
or adoption services or any of those things. They're not doing any of that. It's always
13:48
these Christian pregnancy resource centers. But I do want to make sure that we mentioned,
13:53
you know, the the organization that you're representing now as president and CEO, that's
13:56
the Americans United for life. So that's a you well. And guys, I'll have the website in
14:00
the show notes so you can check that out because we're basically just going to be just barely
14:03
scraping the surface on that stuff so we can get into everything else. But I found something
14:07
that was very interesting from the website. It says, well, is the pioneer of the state-based
14:12
model legislative strategy. Now, I know there's a whole lot that goes into that and there's
14:16
a whole lot that comes out on the back end of that. But I find that to be very, very
14:20
interesting, especially now with what we see with the overturning of Roe and Casey. So talk
14:24
to me a little bit about why that's kind of the a you well, the chosen strategy, if you
14:29
will. Yeah, you know, we advance the human right to life and culture, law, and policy.
14:34
And you're right, there's so much that goes into that. We could talk about that alone
14:38
for an hour straight. But basically, what we are best known for, we work on the federal
14:44
level, we work on state and local level, we we do it all, but we're best known for our
14:48
model bills. So we were the first national pro-life group. We were founded in 1971, two
14:54
years before Roe even came out. And we were founded by a group of people, you know, diverse
14:59
backgrounds and ages and beliefs and everything. But they just saw where the culture was going.
15:04
They saw that that strength and that fortitude was failing us that we weren't building a
15:09
strong next generation. And they just said, you know what, we need to do what we can to
15:15
come together, rebuild, protect women, protect, you know, protect those men, give men, you
15:20
know, strength and choices and and so on, and protect those babies. And so they came together.
15:27
And so we have been involved in every Supreme Court case since and including Roe. We filed
15:32
briefs and and have defended life. We filed the members of Congress brief in the last
15:37
couple cases. So hundreds and hundreds of members of Congress signing on and saying,
15:41
you know, Supreme Court, we we believe the time is now it is time to overturn Roe v. Wade
15:47
and Planned Parenthood. And so we've seen, we've seen a real shift. But one of the reasons
15:54
why we've seen a shift in our nation's laws and culture is because of state based law.
16:01
What we do is we draft model bills, we have 60 plus model bills. And they touch on a whole
16:07
variety of issues. They touch on, you know, gestational age limits on informed consent
16:12
and making sure that women can see the ultrasound that I wasn't allowed to, you know, waiting
16:17
periods, all kinds of different things. Chemical abortion, you name it, minors across state
16:22
lines. And then what we do is we can either, you know, we work with state lawmakers, they
16:27
can just take that model bill and run with it, or we can work with them to help adapt
16:31
it to their state. And then we help them pass it, be testify, we, you know, advise all that
16:37
kind of thing. We help defend it. If the abortion industry, you know, tries to soon come out
16:42
against it. And we educate the public on the truth about abortion law and an abortion itself.
16:48
And this is all critical. Yeah, because, you know, without this, you know, it was a law,
16:54
it was a state law that got row overturned. It was a Mississippi law. It is exactly these
17:00
kinds of laws that have saved millions of lives and millions of hearts, you know, millions
17:05
of families over the last, you know, 49 years since row. That's how we do it. We, you know,
17:12
we influence culture in lots of different ways. But one of the ways that we can do it most
17:17
clearly is through the law, because the law as a teacher. And, you know, if abortion had
17:21
been illegal, when I was 19 years old, I wouldn't have had an abortion. You know, of course,
17:26
you know, I'm not, I'm not a law breaker. But, you know, as society tells you that it's
17:31
okay, that it's legal, it's a clump of cells, it's a blob of tissue, all these lies that
17:36
when you see the ultrasound, you know, the truth. Yeah, it absolutely changes everything.
17:41
I know that there's, I mean, early on, like episode six of this podcast, I talked about
17:45
these mobile, you know, ministries where they basically will show the women in ultrasound
17:50
as a mobile ultrasound to where it's like, look, we will show you your baby for free those
17:53
types of things. And wouldn't you know, it's a bunch of Christians that fund that and started
17:57
that as well. But we obviously have to get into June 24 2022, where the decision for
18:01
Dobbs v Jackson women's health organization was handed down. And so Dobbs was upheld by
18:07
a six, three decision and most importantly, Roe v Wade in Planned Parenthood v Casey was
18:11
overruled in a five, four decision. So Justice Roberts, you suck, you slimy coward. But I
18:16
have, I guess two questions from the very, very beginning is what was your reaction to
18:20
the political leak that, you know, of Alito's draft decision that came out, you know, weeks
18:26
before this decision, the official decision came down. And then obviously what was your
18:30
reaction on the announcement that Roe v Casey are now in the trash heap of history.
18:35
Yeah, when when the draft opinion was leaked, I was actually up in Massachusetts, I was
18:42
heading to the airport, I had a meeting up at Harvard. And I remember I just, I saw an
18:49
update on my phone. I'm sure we all get these updates, these news articles or whatever. And
18:54
you know, with what I do, they know to send me abortion related stuff, right? And so I
18:59
get this update and it says Supreme Court, ready to overturn Roe. And so I hit the brakes,
19:04
I pull over to the side of the road, I'm like, what is this headline? Because we're, you
19:09
know, at this point, it's a couple months too early for this, this decision to come down
19:13
like they could have, but chances were pretty slim. So I thought, what is going on? And,
19:20
and I remember the, it was a mixed feeling. I was overjoyed that we were in this position.
19:26
I was overjoyed at the the strength and the fortitude of Mississippi and of Mississippi
19:32
Attorney General Lynn Fitch, who when the Supreme Court took took up the question, the
19:37
Supreme Court, very few cases make it up there. And the cases that do they decide what they're
19:42
going to look at? And it's a tiny area of law, usually, just very, very narrow. It can
19:47
be, you know, whether this particular law or this word in this law applies to this, it's
19:51
very narrow, you know, very just exact questions. And they had said that they were going to
19:58
look at the question of whether any pre viability, so pre, you know, 21-ish week restriction
20:05
on abortion was constitutional, if that was even possible. So it's a pretty narrow question.
20:11
Big implications, but certainly less, less broad than what ended up being, being decided
20:18
on June 24th. And so Mississippi and Attorney General Lynn Fitch there, they said, no, we're
20:24
going to go ahead and brief the whole, the whole thing. We're going to say, no, it's
20:28
time to overturn Roe, it's time to overturn Casey. They made the argument that we'd been
20:32
making in our, in our amicus briefs for, you know, 49 years now, they said, you know, it
20:38
was the state, it was the, it was the actual party in the case that said that, and that
20:43
was huge. And the justices listened. And for the first time in 49 years, an oral argument,
20:48
they had actually gone through the whole history and tradition of abortion in America. Never
20:53
been done before, wasn't done in a row, wasn't done in Casey or any of those other cases through
20:56
the years. And the, the court hears a case on abortion about every two, two and a half
21:00
years or so. And there's always dozens of cases in the lower courts that are just making
21:05
their way up the pipeline because it takes so long to get a case before the court. And
21:10
so, you know, it was, it was very brave of them. It was, it was time. So when I saw that
21:17
and I saw that the court was ready to really get to the heart of it, and really examine
21:21
the core issue, I was overjoyed. I was shocked and appalled that this had been leaked. I
21:27
mean, what a, what an invasion. What is a, it goes against our entire process of protecting
21:38
our justices and letting them, you know, do their job in a nonpolitical way. I also think
21:42
that the leak was a big mistake. On the part of the left, I think that by leaking it early,
21:48
they actually, you know, spread out and dissipated all that rage. They talked about summer of
21:53
rage. And it was like, it was a hiccup. And I think in large part, that's because they'd
21:58
already, you know, they'd already spent all their energy. They'd already been all upset.
22:04
And so on June 24th, you know, the decision comes down. And, you know, I'm elated. My,
22:10
my colleagues are elated. You know, there's people crying in front of the court just with
22:15
joy. We are all just over the moon. Of course, our workload just tripled plus, right? Cause
22:20
all of a sudden all those state laws were writing and passing that, that's like, you
22:25
know, expanded exponentially. But, but we're so happy about that. But, um, but it also,
22:32
you know, the left was upset. The pro abortion forces were upset, but they weren't as upset
22:37
as they were with the leak. Cause they'd already spread that all out. It was, it was a much
22:41
tamer response. And, and there have been threats. There have been attacks. You know, I'm not
22:45
minimizing that. It's been very serious. It's been criminal. It needs to be prosecuted.
22:51
We need to investigate all that and prosecute it. It's been awful. But it's, it's still
22:56
not as much as it was. It's, it's already dying out. And, you know, if we continue to,
23:01
to investigate and prosecute and crack down, I think it'll be over a very soon. And we're
23:06
going to see the dawn of a new America where we can actually support these young families,
23:11
support these young men and women and empower them to choose life in a way that, you know,
23:15
that we weren't really able to win the default answer for every unexpected pregnancy was
23:21
abortion.
23:22
Right. And I'm a fairly pessimistic guy. And so I still think it's to be determined what
23:25
we're going to see. But I was more on the other side than, than you where I was like,
23:28
Oh, we just given all these crazy people a month to get all their ducks in a row. And,
23:32
you know, to have their bricks delivered to all these downtown areas and to buy extra
23:36
bottles from all off cocktails. And we just haven't seen that yet. So I'm, I'm happy whenever
23:40
I'm wrong about something like that. But the whole crux of our conversation today is not
23:44
about what we're going to talk about with the, the thing you went viral for, which we'll
23:49
set up here in a second. But the whole crux of what we're talking to now is row is dead.
23:53
So now what? Because people are dumb. People had no idea what Roe v. Wade meant that no
23:57
idea what it said, they had no idea that it was just returning the rights back to the
24:01
people of their states to be able to make their voices heard. Right. And so on both sides,
24:06
not just on the left, but certainly on the right, people thought, Oh, abortion's over now.
24:11
It's like, read a book, please, just anybody, does anybody pay attention to anything? Did
24:13
you go to civics class? Do you even understand what you're saying? And so there's a lot that
24:17
needs to be done. Obviously the people that listened to the show are well versed on this
24:21
issue. Because I've talked about it at nauseum at this point. But from your perspective from
24:24
AUL's perspective, you know, as an American, row is dead. Now what?
24:30
Now the real, the real work begins. At this point, we can finally, it was almost like there
24:34
was a cap, right? That which is it was capping off what we could do at the state level to
24:40
protect life to protect, you know, young women and men and families. There were limits because
24:45
the court said, you know, you can't do this. You can't do that. This, you know, this is
24:49
constitutional. And they made up all these tests, none of which made sense. You know,
24:54
all these attorneys general and lawmakers are coming to us saying, what does this test
24:58
even mean? The Supreme Court itself couldn't sort it out. They kept going back and forth.
25:02
They saw it and, you know, in 2016 and 2020, we're seeing them back and forth trying to
25:07
figure out what the test should be. And even that viability line that this case was, you
25:13
know, purportedly about they came up with that in 1992 and Planned Parenthood v. Casey as
25:18
a change from the row test. And the reason why they did, well, we don't really know why
25:23
they did it. Because no one briefed them on that. No one asked for it. None of the parties
25:27
said this is what the test should be. The court just basically looked at the issue and
25:31
they said, well, you know, we don't know. All the legal scholars are telling us that
25:36
row is a bad decision and it's not really constitutional. So let's come up with something
25:41
else and hope that that makes everyone happy. And it made no one happy. So, so at this point,
25:47
the real work begins. You know, we are going to be more engaged than ever in the States.
25:53
We've been here for 51 years. We've written, you know, USA Today and Arizona Republic,
25:58
they did a study where they actually went into every single pro life law that had been passed
26:03
and they analyzed the language. They said, is this an AUL model bill or not? And they
26:08
found out that the vast majority of all the laws, even the ones where lawmakers just,
26:12
you know, click on our website and, you know, grab the language and, you know, put it into
26:17
law. The vast majority were our bills. So now we have more than ever before more work.
26:23
I mean, working in the States, continuing to defend life in the courts, also working
26:27
at the federal level, you know, Congress, they're, they're scheming and, and they've got some,
26:33
some people goading them into it. So they're, you know, trying to pass the so-called Women's
26:38
Health Protection Act, which is not about health or protection and does nothing for women. It's
26:44
just one of the worst named bills I've ever seen. I've testified against it. They're going to be
26:48
trying to pass that. We're fighting back on that. We're going to be trying to pass good pro life
26:53
laws. We've already got, you know, now, now that Roe is gone, there is no pro-abortion
26:58
federal policy in the US. And that is a victory. But, you know, there's these inroads they're
27:04
trying to make, you know, we have Hyde protections to protect your taxpayer money. We have protections
27:10
on various things, you know, no abortion and federal facilities, things like that. But,
27:14
but we need to go further because human rights and human life should not be a piecemeal kind of a
27:21
question. Like Lincoln said, we're going to be all one thing or all the other. And so, you know,
27:27
eventually when we, when we sort this out in the dust settles and people realize that pro-life
27:33
policies are a good thing. It's not a loss. It's a victory for everyone. And, and now we can really
27:38
resource these young families. You know, now we can go in and we can say, okay, it's time for a
27:43
constitutional amendment. It's time to say that no abortion should be allowed. All life will be
27:49
protected. And we're going to resource that like they did in Texas, like they've done in state
27:53
after state where they say, you know, we don't want abortion. We want life affirming choices. We
27:59
want real choice. We want to be giving those resources and that support because most abortions,
28:04
you know, first trimester all the way through late term. There are three major reasons why
28:09
women seek abortion. And, you know, the abortion industry, they talk about, you know, health of the
28:14
mother, you know, rape and incest. Those aren't the reasons. That's a fraction of a fraction of
28:20
cases. And those are hard issues that, you know, we need to get to the root of all that violence.
28:24
We need to eradicate all the violence and not answer violence with more violence. But the three
28:29
top reasons, their financial issues, they're not having enough money or feeling like you do,
28:34
relationship problems, and, you know, not feeling ready to be a parent. And all of those, the good
28:41
news is that all those are areas where we can come alongside a young woman and a young man,
28:45
and we can help them. We can, you know, work them through those relationship issues. We can help
28:49
them with resources and, you know, and get them connected with maybe a good job or training or
28:54
whatever they need to be able to provide for their family. And we can help them feel ready.
28:59
Yeah, the work certainly does not stop. I kind of told people I was like, okay, Friday night,
29:04
you know, open up a new bottle whiskey like I did, fire up cigar like I did. But Saturday morning,
29:09
it's time to get after it because this is the golden sacrament of the left. This is the golden
29:13
sacrament of the secular humanists in this country. They want to make sure that they can kill babies,
29:17
and they're going to hide it behind things like feminism or women's rights, even though they can't
29:22
define what a woman is that they're going to hide it behind all these different things. So the fight
29:26
is not even close to being over. But I am glad that this has woken people up to this because there
29:30
are people that thought that they were pro choice until they really started looking into the issue.
29:35
Because that's the thing is most people spend about 14 seconds thinking about every single topic
29:39
on the planet. They don't do a deep dive into these things. They didn't know even what happens
29:43
in an abortion. They don't know that a fraction of a fraction of a fraction are those hard cases
29:47
that people love to put out in front of everybody. But I've set it up enough. We've got to talk
29:52
about it. The reason why you came on my radar is because you scout a Democrat House of Representatives
29:58
member from Maryland named Jamie Raskin. Okay, this was during a House committee on the judiciary
30:03
hearing called revoking your rights, the ongoing crisis in abortion care access. So before we go
30:09
into the clip, just really, really quickly, most people don't know what any of those things mean.
30:12
So let's set the scene. What are you doing there? Because you're on Capitol Hill. What's going on?
30:17
Why are you there? Just briefly. Yeah, basically, I was there because of the leak. You know, the leak
30:22
happens and and and the Democrats, they they were panicking. They said, you know, hang on,
30:30
all of a sudden we're going to be held accountable. All of a sudden, all those people because most
30:35
Americans, whether they know it or not, they're pro life, they support pro life policy, even if
30:39
they call themselves pro choice, they just don't know what that means, like you said. And so
30:43
the Democrats, you know, our leadership, they're beyond radical on this issue. And so they said,
30:50
hang on, you know, all of a sudden, rome full. So we just want to complain about the Supreme Court.
30:55
That was really the purpose of the hearing. It was a show hearing to complain about the
30:59
Supreme Court to pressure the justices to try to, you know, get little sound bites and clips that
31:06
they can use in their reelection campaigns. It was not about a bill at all. And it was not about
31:11
anything real. It was just a wine session. And so they asked me the Republicans asked me to be the
31:19
pro life witness. I was there it was me and then three people on the abortion side. I know an
31:25
abortion doctor and a abortion activist, you know, these kinds of people, abortion lawyer. And so
31:31
you give your little opening presentation, you get five minutes for that. And then they started
31:35
asking you questions. So that sets the stage. Now guys, I don't think we need to go into anything
31:41
else. If you haven't seen this clip by now, I don't know where you've been hiding. Let's go
31:45
ahead and go into the clip here. Is candidly and openly calling for a nationwide ban on all
31:54
abortions with no exceptions for rape or incest. And if I've got that wrong, I would invite Ms.
32:02
Foster to correct me. Do I have a wrong? Yes or no? If we added rape and incest
32:08
exceptions, would you vote for it? Okay, I reclaim my time, of course.
32:12
Okay, so so that's the clip. And I just remember watching that. And there was something subtle
32:19
that I saw as he's talking. But before you even ask your question, which basically owned him,
32:26
right? You you smirked. And I don't know if you if you meant to, but like if it were if I was a
32:32
poker player and you were across from me, that would have been my tell that you probably got
32:35
ACEs in the hole or something like that. I knew that what was going to happen was probably going
32:40
to happen. It was it was so unbelievably subtle. And then you scalp them. So two questions.
32:45
Number one, where do you keep the scalp in your house? Because it's got to be somewhere prominent.
32:48
And number two, what was it like becoming a member of the thug life club?
32:52
Scalp is by the front door. Yeah. But it was it was pretty incredible. You know, I did not realize
33:02
that I was doing that. I'm not bad at poker. You know, when I concentrate, I can I can do it,
33:08
but but I started even as I was sitting there. And by the way, this is like probably six hours
33:14
or something into this hearing. I don't even know these hearings are an all day affair. And you're
33:18
just you're sitting there. They're peppering you with questions, gotchas, whatever. You know,
33:22
it's a it's an intense experience. But I'm sitting there and and he starts asking this question. I'm
33:28
like, okay, guy, you know, how many times are you trying to how many times have you tried to do
33:34
this to try to, you know, to gasha with the hard hard cases when we know the truth and we know
33:40
what you stand for. There has not been a single pro life law, single pro life policy, not a single
33:46
pro life center. The abortion industry has ever supported, you know, they want to protect their
33:51
bottom line. So even as I'm sitting there, I start getting my my phone starts blowing up with
33:56
texts from friends like you're about to get them like I know that look I've seen that look. Uh oh,
34:01
he's in for it. I'm like, okay. Yeah, I mean, maybe it's the mom thing. I don't know. But um,
34:09
but yeah, it was um, it was just, you know, it was a simple question back. You know, none of that matters
34:16
if it doesn't matter to you. You know, if you wouldn't vote for it, you know, with any kind of
34:22
exception with, you know, let's say we bend, let's say we say, okay, we'll carve out some of those
34:28
lives. And we don't want to, you know, every life is precious and valuable and created in the image
34:32
of God. But let's say we did, would you vote for it then? And we know the answer is no. There's no way.
34:38
And so he he wasn't really prepped well enough, probably he needed to know how to respond to that.
34:44
Um, but he didn't, you know, he just he reclaimed his time and um, and carried back and tried to
34:50
move on. Well, preparation on his end, he would have never even set that up because there is no
34:54
other way to go. This is a point A to point B type scenario. And that's when you know,
34:58
because I try to tell people and we'll get into how to equip people to deal with these
35:02
pro-abortion arguments. But that's some of the best work that we've done, some of the most
35:05
important work that we've done here in an adopted life is equipping people with questions to ask
35:09
back to people that are asking you the questions. Because when someone asks you a question, you feel
35:13
like you're on the defensive and you have to give an answer. And now eventually you're going to have
35:16
to give an answer. But there are probably two or three questions you should ask of that person to
35:20
even know if the question is legitimate, if it's in good faith, because most of these people aren't
35:24
doing that. They're trying to get the sound bite. They're trying to make you look bad. They're
35:27
trying to make you look foolish. And the reality is, is if you step back, even just half a step
35:32
and fire a, you know, good hearted, good faith question back at them, they can't answer it honestly.
35:38
So right now the Democratic National Convention, like the DNC, their stated position on abortion
35:43
is abortion up until the moment of birth, for any reason whatsoever, and taxpayer funded.
35:47
And then you have states like California that are trying to push that into the
35:49
perinatal period, which is up to 28 days after birth, right? And there's some, you know,
35:54
consternation as to whether or not that's true or something like that. But that's where you're
35:57
getting into the infanticide category. But when you ask a prominent Democrat about that directly,
36:02
and say, sir, or ma'am, are you okay with abortion up until the moment of birth for any reason whatsoever,
36:08
also pushing into the perinatal period? Did they just start pulling out random bumper stickers and
36:12
Planned Parenthood T-shirts and like, trying to distract you? Hey, look at this shiny thing over
36:16
here. So it's just absolutely crazy. So I'm so glad that you hit them with that. But talk to me
36:20
about what happened afterwards, because obviously this clip with went viral. It's been seen millions
36:24
of times we shared it around everybody shared it around. And I know there were a lot of people
36:28
that were not aware of Catherine Glenn, Glenn Foster or AUL. So what has kind of like the after
36:34
effect, the aftershock been of this moment? Yeah, you know, so much of our work has been
36:39
behind the scenes. You know, half of us are lawyers, half are educators, but half are lawyers. And
36:44
and so we're not, you know, looking for the spotlight where, you know, we're just doing our
36:48
job, we're drafting the bills, we're working with the lawmakers, we're defending, you know,
36:52
we're in courts, not in, you know, not in Hollywood. So it's been, it's been a unique experience to
36:59
have that to have that shift. It's been, I mean, honestly, an honor, you know, so many people have
37:05
just wanted to hear more. So many people have been talking about abortion in a way that they
37:10
haven't been before. And they've been really empowered to start asking those questions and
37:15
and to respond with those, you know, questions in a loving way in a humble way. But to say, you know,
37:20
let's, let's get to the truth of this. Let's, let's dispense with these red herrings. Let's,
37:24
let's get to the truth of what we're really talking about. And, and that's how we can,
37:29
you know, that's how we can make progress. That's how we can really make inroads for life.
37:33
Well, the day that that happened was the day I reached out to your team, because I was like,
37:38
we need to get her on now right now today. So I'm glad we were able to make this happen.
37:42
And I'm sure we'll have you on later when we can have some more time, because I do want to get
37:45
into the way that you would frame as a lawyer, because I'm not a lawyer, I'm not that smart,
37:49
like the way that you would frame some of these reactions to pro-abortion arguments.
37:52
But there is one thing that I want to ask about, because this is this subject matter creates even
37:56
consternation in the pro-life community. And that's the criminalization of all abortions,
38:01
and all people involved with the abortion. Because my understanding is that there is not a state
38:07
in the union right now that has a law that would criminalize the woman, or that is seeking an
38:12
abortion for herself, or the woman's family that is paying for it, or pushing her in that direction,
38:18
or the boyfriend, or the husband, or the whoever that's pushing that person.
38:22
The only person that they're even feigning to criminalize is the doctor.
38:26
And so where I come from, and I bring this up every time, is like, if I were to hire a hitman
38:31
to kill my wife, which I would never do, I'm just using it as an internal inside my house example.
38:35
If that guy kills my wife and gets caught, and then points at me as the guy that did it,
38:40
and one of my other buddies drove him there, the guy that killed her, me and my buddy that drove her,
38:45
we all go down for murder. Every last one of us, not the one that pulled the trigger,
38:48
not just the one that pulled the trigger. But man, that makes people in the pro-life space really,
38:53
really uncomfortable, because we treat women as an additional victim. When we see an overwhelming
38:58
majority of evidence that shows that a lot of these women aren't actually victims of their
39:02
circumstances. And even if you're like, when has an ignorance to a law or to a reality,
39:07
been the reason why you get out of jail free kind of a deal.
39:11
So you talked to me a little bit about what that looks like, because I'm for full criminalization
39:15
of every single person in the process, but you've done this a lot longer than me. So go.
39:19
Yeah, I hear a lot about that. And I understand your perspective. We've done the research. We
39:26
know the history. And in America, we do not have a history of criminalizing the woman involved.
39:33
Now, of course, a lot of these abortions are repeated portions. Some of them, you get
39:38
one abortion, you harden your heart. You tell yourself it was okay. You're damaged, if you will.
39:44
It's frequently a painful experience. And a lot of times the abortion activists we see out there,
39:52
it's because they have an abortion in their past, and they're just trying to justify it
39:57
any way they can, because it is a very deep, but a very painful experience for them.
40:05
In the past, in America, decades, centuries past, we did not criminalize the woman,
40:10
because the lawmakers recognized that the woman was a second victim, a victim of the industry,
40:16
a victim of the lies, a victim of, you know, a lot of a huge percentage of abortions are the result
40:22
of pressure, of coercion, you know, not always from the young man involved. A lot of times,
40:28
he may want that child, but he doesn't know how to speak up. But, you know, maybe it's her parents,
40:33
maybe it's a sibling or a friend or someone else. And it's the product of a culture where she's
40:38
told in a legal system, where she's told that that's okay, and that's the default answer,
40:42
which it shouldn't be. Also, it's really interesting. In fact, it was the abortion industry that did
40:50
want women prosecuted. The reason is because if you have the woman who's being prosecuted as well,
40:56
then she has an incentive to try to cover it up, to lie to whatever, to try to hide that pain and
41:02
push it even deeper. And then that creates more of that cycle of hurt, which can, you know, go on for,
41:07
you know, years, decades, generations even. So, they wanted to shield themselves by getting the
41:15
woman prosecuted too. Whereas the prosecutors, they say, no, we need the woman to come and testify
41:21
against against this abortionist. So that's part of it. But I think overall, we do need to rethink
41:29
our entire system and how we address it. So I actually wrote a white paper that gets into
41:37
how to deal with that punishment phase. And even what, you know, what an abortion trial should look
41:42
like. And we have models in our country that work, you know, models, or at least work as well as
41:48
they can, we can always try to make them better. But models like a family court or a drug court,
41:52
where you're looking a more holistic perspective, you look at everyone involved, because everyone
41:57
involved, in many cases, everyone's impacted. And a lot of different folks have some culpability,
42:04
you know, we can't completely shield and absolve people on just because of, you know, of the lie
42:11
or what or whatever it may be. And so in a lot of ways, I think we do need to need to look at
42:16
everyone, you know, that's what a real justice system would do. And so we look at what everyone
42:23
needs to, to make amends for that wrong, and to make sure that it doesn't get repeated going
42:31
forward dealing with that recidivism issue that you're talking about, that should never be happening.
42:36
And so in that white paper, I get into exactly that issue, you know, what should happen with the
42:42
woman, what should happen with the partner, you know, the boyfriend, the husband, whoever,
42:48
you know, what should happen with certainly the abortion doctor, the abortionist, and the staff,
42:53
and everyone over there. But maybe, you know, are their parents involved, are their siblings or
42:58
friends, you know, what was the school doing, what's the school, you know, or the place of business,
43:04
are they pushing abortion, like Citibank, or are they, you know, are they trying to say, here,
43:10
here's what would happen with your classes, here's what would happen with, with your meal plan and
43:14
your housing plan. And so all of these, all of these institutions and people, they're all impacted,
43:22
they all had, you know, potentially a role to play, and that should be examined, and we should have,
43:27
you know, some kind of way to say, you need to have a plan for when a young woman on your campus
43:32
gets pregnant, you know, we don't want it to happen, but, you know, it may happen, you know, you need
43:37
to, to go get counseling for the fact that, you know, that you just had an abortion, you know,
43:43
is the answer to throw her in jail? Maybe not, but does she need to, you know, have a clear path set
43:49
out for her? And, you know, some kind of accountability, you know, that that's definitely on the table,
43:55
and that's laid out in our white paper. So I hate using the word nuance, because that's a word
44:00
that dumb people use to sound smart, but it is a nuanced issue. And I'll make sure that we get
44:05
that white paper and put that in the show notes guys so that you can check that out. But I guess
44:08
my argument there before we just kind of move on is, I mean, earlier in this podcast, you said
44:13
that you're not a lawbreaker, if it had been illegal, you wouldn't have done it. And so if
44:16
everyone involved knows that their head is potentially on the chopping block, if they go through and
44:21
kill this baby, I think that would save even more children. So so that's kind of my argument on it.
44:26
And at the end of the day, it's like, that that has to be the standard because if I
44:31
influence some seven year old kid, and I like, you know, get after him for weeks and weeks and
44:35
weeks telling him to kill someone, you got to kill someone, I swear to you, here's a gun,
44:38
wow, but you go kill somebody. And then he goes and kills somebody. Well, let's say he's 18, like he's,
44:42
he's above the age of reason or whatever the situation is, like, we're both going to go down
44:46
for that, like in some way, shape or form, but them mainly because they're the one that made
44:50
the choice to do that. But but again, I haven't read the white paper. So I need to dig in that
44:53
to myself so I can look a little bit more in the arguments. But in the in the last, you know, 15
44:57
minutes or so that we have here together, I want to get into some of the pro abortion arguments
45:01
that we hear. So I've done stuff before, I've shown guys how to engage, you know, 15, 16, 17,
45:06
different of the main pro abortion arguments. Here are the questions you should ask.
45:10
Here are the things that you should say in response. But I've got like 10 of them here in front of me.
45:14
And let's just see how many of these that we can get through like, let's just try to go rapid fire
45:18
see how many we can get through. So just equip the men that are listening to this with some things
45:22
from your perspective and your experience. So how would you respond to someone saying it's not a
45:26
human life, it's a potential life. It's just a clump of cells. It is literally a human being.
45:32
Science is clear across the board on that look at any embryology textbook. It is only the most
45:39
radical abortion activists who legitimately try to argue that this is not a human being.
45:44
What else is it? It's not a dog. It's, you know, it's a living creature that, you know, without
45:50
some kind of intervention is going to grow and become, you know, someone who looks just like you
45:55
were me. Right. And so like I love how Ben Shapiro puts it. It's not a potential human life. It's a
46:00
human life with potential. And so that kind of feeds into the next thing, which is, you know,
46:04
they do one of two things. They usually go from one to the other, but they'll say it's not a person
46:08
until it's viable, or they'll say it's not a person until it's born. So how do you deal with the
46:13
viability and the it's born arguments? Yeah, it makes no sense to try to to create some artificial
46:20
moment in time where all of a sudden you get human rights, you get human rights by virtue of your
46:27
existence as a human being, you know, human rights for all human beings. And there's actually a funny
46:32
video out there. It's just, you know, if you Google magical birth canal, it sounds like you
46:39
shouldn't Google it, but it's good. And it's just this satire video, you know, like, okay, you know,
46:46
it's some magical point you become human. You're human from fertilization, you know, and, and that's
46:54
that. Yeah, it's a living human with no one's surprised when a baby comes out and not a Volkswagen
47:00
or not a cactus or something like that. Well, like, we're not shocked. We know it's a living
47:04
human person. And again, like, it's like, does the vaginal canal confer personhood? Is that is
47:09
that the argument you're trying to make? Like, does the technology in a particular area,
47:13
which affects the viability standard and number? Because in some areas, a 21 week old of gestation
47:18
baby's not going to survive, but in some areas, they do. So does the technology in an area confer
47:23
personhood? Like, is that really, really the argument? It just seems silly. Another one.
47:28
Exactly. And I would just really quickly, if I could add, yeah, um, so, you know, when you're
47:32
looking at viability, that never made any sense as a standard because viability, even right now,
47:38
it's a set of probabilities, you know, at 20 weeks, you have this probability of survival,
47:43
21 weeks, another probability, 22 weeks, another. And so you're hinging a legal test, a legal right,
47:50
based on a probability of different weeks, you know, it's not guaranteed at any gestational age.
47:56
It's not really guaranteed to any of us. So why, why would they, you know, try to,
48:01
try to make up some random line that shifts based on our medical advances that shifts based on,
48:07
on our medical access, you know, different areas, it's nonsensical. I agree. Next one that a lot of
48:14
people get into is, you know, and this is a big one now because of the overturning of Roe. But
48:18
what if abortion is necessary to save the life or health of the mother? Like, come on, have a heart.
48:23
Not an abortion. Yeah. Abortion is the intentional killing, um, direct killing of a human being. And
48:30
that's not an abortion. Now there may be times when to save the life of the mother. Um, you know,
48:36
there may be the need to deliver the child early. Um, maybe the mother has to have radiation. You
48:41
know, you're looking at her, you know, her three, her five other children. And you're thinking, you
48:45
know, of course we want to protect her life. Um, but that is not an abortion. That is a medical
48:50
intervention. And you view it as having two patients, not just one, you're never going in
48:56
intentionally trying to kill that child. If you walk into the room as a doctor and you're thinking,
49:00
do know harm and you recognize that there are two human beings in this situation,
49:04
you try to care for both of them. And again, we've, we've seen instances where women have had
49:08
wombs taken out of their stomachs, set to the side. They've gotten treatment on whatever was
49:13
going wrong in their abdomen. And the baby was put back and they were sewn up. So this idea that
49:17
women are just going to be dropping like flies. It's just propaganda at this point. But another
49:21
one, this is my personal favorite because I just giggle, uh, uncontrollably want to hear it.
49:25
No uterus, no opinion. This would be the first human rights issue. And I think the history of the
49:31
world where we said that 50% of the population had no voice. Are you kidding me? You know, men
49:39
are made to be leaders. Men are made to have that voice and to, to lead the way, um, and set the
49:46
standard and to say that we don't want your voice. Um, that's part of the lie that's led to, um, to
49:52
legalize abortion, trying to cut the man out of it, trying to cut that protection out of it. Um,
49:58
that needs to end. Well, and again, it's like, well, you don't actually disagree with my opinion
50:03
as a man. You disagree with men that think like I do, because there are tens of millions of women
50:08
that think the way that I do. What about them? What if I identified as a man for the remainder
50:12
of this conversation? Do I get to have an opinion then? Because again, you're attacking a worldview
50:16
and they sure didn't mind it. When seven white men decided the road decision about 50 years ago,
50:21
they didn't mind that too much. I guess the fact that they didn't have a uterus, uh, didn't matter
50:25
in that particular thing. Now this next one is right. Yeah. These bro choicers, we call them,
50:31
they are just the worst. They come out and they get very aggressive, you know,
50:36
defending abortion rights. In fact, I just saw an article a few weeks ago written by one of
50:40
those bro choicers. And he, um, and he was saying, you know, here's how losing Roe v. Wade would
50:46
impact me in my sex life and like, okay, first of all, get it. We know what your concern is.
50:53
Right. Bro choicers is probably the funniest thing. I've never heard that before. That needs to be a
50:58
t-shirt, but second of all, and this, I'll try to, you know, say this without being too crass. A lot
51:02
of these male feminists or bro choicers, these are people that are they themselves are trying to
51:08
have their sexual lives improved in some way. And they think that is their track to doing that. Like,
51:14
look how woke I am. Look how much I support you. Will you date me now? Like it's kind of,
51:18
it's a weird like junior high type thing. It's crazy. But this next one, this one is the common
51:24
one that we saw. This is the easiest one, easiest one to put on a t-shirt or on a sign that you
51:28
hold up my body, my choice. So how would you respond to that? It's not your body. It's so simple.
51:33
It's not your body. Remember, it's a human being. Um, it's not your, it's two bodies involved. Like,
51:41
it's, it's so simple. And yet they come up with these slogans. They're very good at coming up
51:46
with slogans. They spend a lot of money hiring marketing firms to come up with these slogans.
51:51
And it's very chantable. Um, sadly, it's wrong. Um, so you can put it on a sign, but it's absolutely
51:58
inaccurate. And they're just hoping that if they repeat it enough, that people will start to believe
52:02
it and people will remember it. And, um, and we know better than that. Well, and people are dumb.
52:09
And that's the thing that these, these companies know is that if you do repeat it long enough,
52:12
people are like, Oh, yeah, that makes perfect sense. Okay. And then they're going to go get
52:16
their McDonald's and go on with all their other terrible life decisions. Now in this podcast,
52:20
we've already talked about the response to cases of rape and incest. I don't think we need to spend
52:23
too much more time on that. And then also pro-lifers only care about the baby before it's born. Like,
52:28
that's obviously nonsense because all these pregnancy resource centers, they don't stop treating these
52:32
women and caring for these women the day they have birth, obviously, and almost all of these places
52:37
were founded for and paid for by Christians and Christian money. If you can, you know, couch it that
52:42
way. So I think we can move past that as well. But another one diapers and baby formula for after
52:47
the baby is born. Exactly. And church is coming together to get that woman a car to make sure she
52:52
has a way to get back and forth, you know, business owners in the area, making sure she has a job.
52:56
Almost all these people are coming from the Christian church. I don't want to hear that nonsense.
53:00
So, but another thing we hear is that even if the unwanted baby is taken to term and born,
53:05
there wouldn't be a family available to adopt it. So obviously, it's better to kill this baby
53:11
than to have it in the foster care system. So what would you say to that? Yeah, it is so offensive
53:17
when people say that our worth is dependent on our circumstances. I think about all the people I know
53:23
who are adopted or we're in the foster care system. And, you know, and we need to, we need to improve
53:29
it. No argument there, but let's get to the heart of the problem and worked, you know, to improve it
53:34
instead of just saying, well, it's better to be, you know, you're better off dead. That is incorrect.
53:40
And it's, it's offensive. It's, it's un-Christian. It's, it's inhumane. What we need to do is
53:47
get to the heart of all the violence, all the problems, and solve them from the inside out
53:53
instead of just bandating over them. And, and saying that, that our worth is dependent
53:59
on our circumstances on where we find ourselves on the family we happen to be born into.
54:04
I know a lot of people who'd rather be born into a different family, and that doesn't make them
54:08
any less human. Well, and what they're arguing inherently is that it's better to be dead than
54:13
to be poor. It's better to be dead than to be in the foster care system. It's better to be dead
54:17
than it is to be adopted. And I just had a friend reach out to me. I won't use his name because
54:21
it's confidential, but someone that that was close to him, she was like, I was going to get an abortion,
54:26
but because the baby inside me is not going to live like the doctors told me the baby's not going
54:30
to live. It's, you know, if it lives outside, the women only live for a short period that the
54:33
baby's just going to be suffering the whole time. But then the doctor's decision came down and now
54:37
they're they're not allowing me to get this abortion because the state I'm in and blah, blah, and
54:40
isn't this such a horrible situation? But the way that I explained it to this guy is like,
54:43
that baby has a right to live. Like, you know, because think about what you're saying, like,
54:49
what if it was a seven year old outside the womb, and it was having a bunch of seizures or had
54:53
some sort of a terminal illness, would it be okay with you if I went up and slit that baby's throat
54:58
or that seven year old's throat at that point, like, bleed them out, you know, as quickly as possible,
55:02
give them a humane death, you would look at me like I had a boob on the top of my head, like,
55:06
that's the craziest thing you've ever said in your entire life. Like, but that's where these people
55:09
get to. Like, do you hear a lot of stuff like that now kind of these, these hard cases now that
55:13
Dobbs has come down? Yeah, I mean, sickeningly, some people actually argue for that because we're
55:18
full spectrum, we go all the way to natural death. And so, you know, we deal with euthanasia, we deal
55:23
with all those issues as well, and we're having to fight that argument. But, you know, when it comes
55:28
to, to a prenatal diagnosis, number one, a lot of those are wrong. So you can't, you can't bank
55:35
on that. So do you really want to end the life? And then find out later that the diagnosis was
55:41
wrong entirely. Second, let's say it's right. There are resources out there and not everyone's
55:47
aware, you know, that's part of the thing we need awareness. But we have resources like
55:52
perinatal hospice. We have plans in place that are life affirming that allow you to have, you know,
55:57
a peaceful goodbye. We're not talking about a suffering child. They're just that's propaganda.
56:03
They're trying to sway you at that point because they don't want to provide the care. They don't
56:07
want to, you know, whatever. But but we have ways to, to just have that time together and give that
56:15
child the best possible, even if it's short life, but the best possible life in any kind of argument,
56:22
you know, you're better off dead than poor, better off dead than, you know, then disabled or
56:26
anything like that. That's just echoing the words of Planned Parenthood's founder, Margaret Sanger,
56:32
who was this noted eugenicist who was known for her just terrible views. They've tried to rehabilitate
56:40
her a little bit because they like her stance on on Planned Parenthood and and birth control,
56:44
even she didn't support abortion, even she didn't. And so, you know, we need to we need to get to
56:51
the heart of human rights and make sure that we're recognizing that we all have them, you know,
56:57
no matter if we're born, no matter, you know, if we have some kind of diagnosis or whatever,
57:02
we deserve we have fundamentally just by nature of our of our existence as human beings,
57:09
you know, created by God, rational human beings, we have a human right to life.
57:14
Absolutely. And I love the point you made about doctors because obviously doctors can get things
57:19
wrong. I think every single year in the US in the top five or six of causes of death in the US
57:24
are mistakes by doctors. So this can be a prescription. They've done a surgery mistake,
57:28
like all these different things. And it's like, I get it, we're supposed to trust these people,
57:31
but it's like, can we trust the bear the bearify? Did you get a second opinion on this? Because one
57:36
guy or gal in a white coat walks into your room and says, yeah, the baby's definitely suffering
57:40
in there, we should kill it. And you just go, okay, and you just kind of move that direction.
57:44
So we should always question these people, even if they seem superior to us. But Catherine,
57:48
I really appreciate all time that you've given us today. We've covered a lot of ground here,
57:51
but as of for now, that is all for me. Is there anything else you want to get off your chest?
57:54
Nope, I am just so glad that you're out here talking about it, that you're out here encouraging
58:00
men to talk about it, to stand strong in their families and in their communities. That is exactly
58:06
what we need to shift the culture for life in America. I agree. Catherine Glenn Foster,
58:10
thank you for coming on on Daunton life, a man's podcast. Thank you. There you go, guys. I hope
58:15
you enjoyed my conversation with Catherine Glenn Foster. But before we let you go, we are going to
58:19
do a quick resilience boost at undaunted life. Our mission is equipping me into pushback darkness
58:23
with content that for just spiritual mental and physical resilience. So here are the links I've
58:26
got for you today. I got a link to the Americans United for Life website. I've also got a link to
58:31
the clip of her basically destroying representative Jamie Raskin. That is here. I've also got a link to
58:36
YouTube video that gives you a little bit of information as to Catherine's story. She talked
58:39
about a little bit of it today, but it's kind of a summarized version. And also she mentioned a
58:43
specific white paper in the episode. I just sent you a link with all the AEWL's white papers,
58:47
because I thought that a lot of them were fantastic and would be good resources for you so you guys
58:51
can check those out there. All right. Thank you guys so much for listening to the show. We do
58:54
appreciate it wherever you're listening to this. Please subscribe, rate, and leave us a positive
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five star view. If you want me to come speak at your event or live on your podcast, just shoot me
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an email to info@undaunted.life. That's i-n-f-o@undaunted.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook
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and check out our website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like
59:12
this coming your way. Just go to www.undaunted.life. And as always, we want to thank the band August
59:17
Burns Red for allowing us to use their music for our content. The music on this podcast is our song
59:22
"Cutting the Tides," which is off their 10th anniversary re-recording of their album Leveler.
59:25
The links are in the description. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness,
59:31
keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
1:00:01
[Music]