BROOK REEVES | Deathcore for Christ (Ep. 892)

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0:57 This is undaunted life, a man's podcast.

1:01 I'm your host Kyle Thompson.

1:03 Let's get into it.

1:04 Brooke Reeves, welcome.

1:05 Yes.

1:06 I don't have a cool name for the studio.

1:07 I wanted to name it like the doom room or something.

1:09 Can we call it the doom room?

1:10 The doom room is perfectly acceptable.

1:12 Well, but I mean, after last night, I mean, I brought you into town and I was like, I

1:16 always say to people, I'm a walking billboard for like four things.

1:19 It's like gospel, Jesus Christ, jujitsu, eating meat, and Christian metal.

1:24 We covered like three of those four last night.

1:27 So Brazilian steakhouse talked about Jesus, the whole bunch talked about metal, but we

1:31 didn't, we didn't, we didn't roll.

1:32 And so I was like, do we need to like, we could fix that before you, before you go back home?

1:36 Yeah, you can just humble me if you want before.

1:38 Have you never rolled before?

1:39 I've never done Jesus.

1:40 No, no.

1:41 So two of the guys in the band, they did jujitsu and Manny, I could smoke just because

1:47 he's so little.

1:48 Oh, come on.

1:49 You say that.

1:50 You say that.

1:51 He's actually, I don't want to put him on a spot, but David, he'll beat me in like David

1:58 can just, he's good.

1:59 Dude, he can choke me out.

2:01 People don't understand.

2:02 So one of the funniest videos, there was a UFC fighter for get his name.

2:04 Do you know the guy that does the viral videos?

2:06 No, there's a different, there's a different guy that I'm thinking of.

2:09 He used to be 135 pound champion.

2:11 I can't remember the guy's name.

2:12 Anyway, you know the guy that goes viral, he'll like stop people on the street and give him

2:16 free haircuts.

2:17 Like have you seen that?

2:18 Vic.

2:19 Yeah.

2:20 Yeah.

2:21 This, this UFC fighter and this UFC fighter is not even like a grapple.

2:25 I got to get the guy's name.

2:27 Shoot.

2:28 Do you know what I'm talking about?

2:29 Because you watch, you watch.

2:30 Yeah.

2:31 Yeah.

2:32 Because he's the one that does all the crazy, like the dreads and his hairs all like died

2:35 pink in, in a pink and gray or whatever.

2:38 Sure.

2:39 Sean.

2:40 Sure.

2:41 Sean.

2:42 Yeah.

2:43 Really?

2:44 Dang.

2:45 Okay.

2:46 So yeah.

2:47 All the people like excited.

2:48 It's not a deep cut.

2:49 I literally just like, this is how bad the podcast is starting in.

2:50 So okay.

2:51 And then the guy who has no grappling experience, he's a little, little guy.

2:54 He's a barber, right?

2:55 Right.

2:56 And he goes, Hey, you know, how long do you think I would last, you know, with you, like

3:00 if we were grappling, we were like messing around and sure Sean's like, I don't know,

3:03 maybe 10 seconds or something like that.

3:06 And the guy's like, what?

3:07 Like no way, no way.

3:08 And the guy, this is a cold line from Sugar Sean.

3:11 Yeah.

3:12 The barber goes, come on, man, I got that dog in me.

3:14 Yeah.

3:15 And he goes, man, that ain't gonna matter if you don't have that oxygen in you.

3:17 Right.

3:18 And then they're, they're by an octagon, they're by some mats.

3:21 And Sugar Sean just kind of goes, I mean, we can find out and the guy goes, okay, let's

3:25 do it.

3:26 And I'm like, oh, this is going to be bad.

3:27 This is going to be really, really bad.

3:28 And so they like take all their jewelry off and take all their stuff off or whatever.

3:31 And they get on the mat and like, it's the same thought that I've had when I've gone

3:36 with people that talk trash and then think they're just going to like smoke me and they're

3:39 not trained.

3:40 Standing guillotine.

3:41 You just grab by the head, you snap them down in the armpit and that's all Sugar Sean

3:45 did.

3:46 He tapped him out in about five seconds.

3:47 He just grabbed him and just lifted him off off the ground and the panic you feel.

3:52 The first time you get manhandled like that, it's like your entire like brain can't compute

3:57 it or whatever.

3:58 Yeah.

3:59 No, I've, I've like grabbed a dude and I'm like, Oh God, dude, it's a real thing though.

4:05 Yeah.

4:06 So one of my main training partners back in the day, Tyler Murrow, he's got a gym called

4:09 Scrap City over Midwest City.

4:10 Now he did a, like it was a fight to win.

4:13 It was like a super fight or something like that.

4:15 And he said he grabbed the guy and the moment he grabbed him, he goes, Oh no, like this

4:21 is going to be, and I don't know if he ended up winning the match.

4:23 I can't remember.

4:24 But he was just like, you could just feel certain guys, they just feel, yeah, they feel

4:28 like way different.

4:29 And so like, I think that might be like as we go into the next, a part of your career

4:34 with impending doom.

4:35 If we add jujitsu to you like your base, like just think I'm just talking to the jujitsu

4:40 or boxing, I really want to just, we don't want brain damage.

4:43 Come on.

4:44 No, I don't, I'm not going to like competitively, but like just getting my licks in with boxing,

4:49 like learning boxing, because yeah, David wants me to go to jujitsu with them all the

4:53 time, but it's just like, and I'm, I'm fine with that.

4:56 I love rolling and whatever messing around and stuff.

5:00 Well, maybe in the yard before we get out of here, we can check that fourth box or something

5:04 like that.

5:05 Okay.

5:06 Yeah.

5:07 But no, I enjoyed dinner last night because we were, we talked about like, we were all

5:10 over the place.

5:11 We were talking politics, apologetics.

5:13 We were talking about like music and everything like that.

5:15 There's no.

5:16 What's it called?

5:17 Religion and politics.

5:18 Yeah.

5:19 Yeah.

5:20 We made sure to start with that.

5:21 Like all the subjects that people want, want to ignore, break the ice with that.

5:25 But one of the things that I wanted to make sure that we talked about was, and you know,

5:29 you listen to my episode episode 666, who of the podcast, because of all the things, because

5:35 I have a lot of bold opinions, I have a lot of, you know, things that I argue for.

5:39 And there's plenty of things for people to be mad about in the comment section.

5:42 So one of the main like problems that people have with the show, the one star reviews,

5:49 the complaint emails is the intro outro music of the podcast, which has either been August

5:54 Burns red or holy name.

5:56 Which one are you getting more?

5:58 So I, so I will say it's actually partially your fault.

6:01 So I shared a fall on your knees from holy name and I shared like that the breakdown part

6:07 from the live in Chicago thing with, you know, head and, and you and all that.

6:11 And people are just like, you know, this is demonic, like the, the, the sounds coming

6:17 out of that.

6:18 Yeah.

6:19 That man, they're, they're clearly demonic and there's, there's skulls on, on the background

6:24 that are being projected.

6:25 And like that's obviously like a symbol of Satan, you know, a human anatomy is a symbol

6:29 of Satan and all those types of things.

6:31 And so like, I feel like I've fought this since I was in middle school when I got introduced

6:36 to like underground Christian metal, but like you've been in the world for like two decades.

6:42 Yeah.

6:43 And, and this isn't like Christian, like impending doom is not like Christian rock.

6:46 It's not like, you know, something that's nice and easy and palatable for a lot of people.

6:51 Like, you know, genre wise, I mean, y'all could be in a bunch of different genres, but

6:55 it's like death metal, like, you know, that kind of thing.

7:00 And so people don't, they can't really compute how you individually can be a Christian and

7:03 make that kind of music and how y'all as a band can be making God glorifying Christ honoring

7:09 music, but like sounding like that.

7:12 And so I mean, you obviously get a lot of crap for that as well.

7:16 So I'm just kind of curious how that's gone.

7:18 It happened earlier on now, it's kind of those things, right, where you like, well, you just

7:24 keep doing your thing.

7:25 Right.

7:26 First, you get the hate, you get the hate, you get the hate, you get criticized.

7:28 And then all of a sudden it's just like, Oh, can I be your friend?

7:33 You know, you when you pass the mark of like, you go through the criticism space and then

7:37 once you pass that, then they're like, Oh, he's not going away and he's not being bothered

7:41 by it.

7:42 I'm gonna go see him the next time, but you know what I mean, become a fan, like you're

7:46 like, you go, you turn to fan, like that's, it's a weird sort of stages you go through

7:52 as like a critic.

7:54 But yeah, it started out early on the hate was not as from the very beginning.

8:07 I think it's because we came out so hard, like we were just, we came out.

8:12 Your first EP was not subtle.

8:13 Yeah, it's not subtle.

8:14 We came out like guns of blazing first album guns, blazing heavy, gutturally just nasty

8:22 stuff to where it's just like, you can't really even the lyrical, the lyrical content.

8:28 I mean, the subjects that you talk about and like even the imagery used shows and the logos

8:34 and the music videos like, and it's intentional for sure.

8:37 Well, so I guess talk about that because, you know, what you could have done is because

8:41 you and I were even talking last night when, you know, and we'll get into some of the peak

8:44 behind the curtain on the industry because most people, me included, don't really understand

8:48 the music industry and all that.

8:49 But typically when you sign the label, don't they kind of give you notes and some ideas

8:56 like, Hey, we'd rather you kind of do this or, you know, it'd be nice if we added a more

8:59 melodic section or like you're kind of getting, depending on the label, you're basically being

9:05 controlled a little bit as an artist.

9:08 But I mean, even, you know, with y'all's initial records, it didn't seem like they put any handicaps

9:13 on y'all.

9:14 Well, so when we first, we were very aggressive and just like, if you heard, if you literally

9:22 never seen us live and you took our EP and you just threw it in your CD player and you

9:28 listened to it, you would just be like, like the key, like the face down was all into hardcore

9:34 metal core stuff.

9:35 Like that was big early 2000s.

9:38 And so I think Eric Greigson, who is in Sleeping Giant, Death Star, I think he's the one they

9:47 gave our EP to Jason at face down.

9:50 And Jason, what I'm told is Jason faced, I was like, this is a joke, right?

9:55 Like this is just too heavy.

9:57 Yeah.

9:58 It's like, it's what is this?

9:59 Well, some people don't really even let's let's go back to like hardcore metal core because

10:03 even guys that are listening to this right now, they hear rock music or metal screen.

10:07 So yeah, they'll say something like screamo because of the screaming vocals.

10:10 So they don't even know like the difference between like a hardcore and a death core or

10:15 like, and then then you get into, oh, there's post hardcore and then it's like, you know,

10:20 Lending way too much these days, man.

10:21 It's just like there is fusions all like there is just so much going on, especially with

10:26 the production you can do nowadays.

10:28 It's just like you can mix anything with techno EDM with metal music, dance music.

10:34 I mean, it's and it's all over the place.

10:36 But like in the early 2000s, it was pretty clear on what, what was, you know, if you

10:42 know, terror is a hardcore band and yeah, Advent was a pretty good hardcore band.

10:48 And then you got metal core, which is as late dying, August, Prince red for today, you know,

10:53 they are all metal core.

10:54 And then we were in this section of like, so I didn't grow up in like Christian music.

11:00 I grew up in like new metal, death metal.

11:03 And so I really loved death metal growing like from new, from new metal to death metal,

11:10 which bands were you into the death metal?

11:12 You have the same.

11:13 Yeah.

11:14 Yeah.

11:15 You got to admit it, aborted, yeah, dying feed is cannibal corpse, cannibal corpse,

11:22 cattle decap.

11:23 Yeah.

11:24 And then there's just like at my local CDs shopping, you know, like you were used to

11:31 buy CDs, they were just a bunch of underground.

11:33 Yeah.

11:34 And you were in Southern California too.

11:35 And I'm in Southern California.

11:36 So like, dude, there was just local bands that would put their CDs in here and judge

11:41 it.

11:42 We used this judging by the covers for sure.

11:44 And then that's why I bought the first kill switch album, because I thought the cover

11:47 was cool.

11:48 It was a CD exchange like you CD store.

11:50 But what a gem that was, right?

11:51 My goodness.

11:52 Yeah.

11:53 Gosh, dude, that one, you know, well, that was back in the day when you, they had CD players

11:57 around the store.

11:58 That's what I mean.

11:59 Yeah.

12:00 And so you could literally, you would take the empty case up to the front and be like,

12:04 Hey, can I listen to this?

12:05 So good.

12:06 And you can listen to a song or two before you bought the album or whatever.

12:09 And so like, so you're into all these like super heavy, super death metal stuff.

12:14 And then like around, I don't know, 18, 17, 18, I'm like, I started, I was like, should

12:22 I go to church?

12:25 And I don't know, I dabbled in church and I was, you know, still partying with my friends,

12:29 but also go, I was like, yeah, this is not good.

12:32 So then I was like, go to church.

12:33 I was like, this is good.

12:34 And then I go party again.

12:35 And I was like, this is just not feeling right.

12:37 Then I go part and then go to church.

12:39 And then I was like living this like one foot in and one foot out world, which is just

12:43 so life kind of deal.

12:44 Oh, and it's so exhausting, right?

12:46 Yeah.

12:47 So eventually I started going to church more, church more, church more.

12:50 And I was like, and then I was listening to heavy, heavy death metal and I was like,

12:56 I think I wanna, I think I can bring, you know, a God centered, you know, approach right

13:06 to this really heavy music and do it in a way that's not cheesy, because like I hate

13:13 awkwardness and I hate cheesiness and I hate cringiness and I'm like, okay, that's how

13:16 do I do this?

13:18 So we went through, I just through local or through mutual friends.

13:24 I was just asking, you know, does anybody know like a star player?

13:27 Does anybody know a drummer?

13:28 Does anybody know this?

13:29 Because in where I was at that time, it wasn't really a lot of people that listen to metal.

13:37 I mean, at that time, it was the used taking back Sunday, which are great, which that's

13:42 more the, the screamo, like you pop, hunky type of stuff.

13:46 This was like defined a great line.

13:48 Right.

13:49 When did that look?

13:50 Whatever, whatever one came like in 2006 chasing safety, I think.

13:52 Yeah.

13:53 It was like 2004, and then I think defined the great line was the next one.

13:56 And like, dude, they were like number two on billboard with, with one of those out.

14:00 So that's what was big and that's what what people liked.

14:03 And then as like dying was kind of like a town over was like where metal core was kind

14:09 of happening.

14:10 But where I was, it was like, and they were influenced by at the gates who like, no one

14:13 had heard of until they heard of as late dying.

14:15 And so they were like kind of trying to go backwards and do it.

14:17 Yeah.

14:18 At the gates is sick.

14:20 Yeah.

14:21 So there was not really a lot of people wear skaters.

14:25 And then I asked some buddies that were skaters, you know, when he gets our players like, yeah,

14:28 check out this guy, Manny, Manny was, I think he's a, yeah, I think he's only a great younger

14:33 than me.

14:34 I think I wasn't 11th.

14:35 He was in 10th.

14:36 Yeah.

14:37 And when you're looking for someone that can play death metal, that's not like he liked

14:41 hardcore.

14:42 Okay.

14:43 And I had to change his mind real quick on that and I would beat him down for so long

14:47 dude, because he would, he'd just love like, throw down and throw it down.

14:51 Yeah.

14:52 They're awesome.

14:53 Yeah.

14:54 I never really got into terror.

14:55 Like I, I probably should have given another chance.

14:56 But yeah, like my door was very limited, but dude, I did like throw down, especially back

15:00 in the like super straight edge, throw down, a maker dude insane.

15:06 Yeah.

15:07 No.

15:08 And, uh, real quick side note on throw down, which I was going to give them a shot out.

15:12 Yeah.

15:13 We were first starting, we were kind of, it was kind of happening around Southern California

15:19 for us.

15:21 And we got to play a show with them at showcase and I don't think they knew who we were, but

15:29 they threw us on as an opener and we had a great show.

15:34 And then at the end of the, as they were playing, they gave us a huge shout out.

15:39 Didn't need to.

15:40 Yeah.

15:41 And then they're like, you know, I, I, you know, gave it up for impending doom.

15:44 And it was just like this, 2006 and early 2000s, throw down respected.

15:52 I mean, they're still respected, but like at that time, they headlined a bunch of tours.

15:56 They killed it.

15:57 So shout out, throw down man.

15:59 They're sick.

16:00 But he was into like, like, like, gosh, what it was like with honor and like many of us.

16:06 Yeah.

16:07 Yeah.

16:08 Like, like, just throw everybody into the box.

16:09 That's what this podcast is going to be.

16:10 Let's just look at their taste.

16:11 I was like, we found last night, you and I disagree on a bunch of that.

16:14 We'll get to it.

16:15 We'll get to it.

16:16 So Manny, he really, he was in the hardcore and like evergreen tears, which is fine.

16:21 We toured with evergreen tears, loved them.

16:23 And I was like, yeah, yeah, they're still killing it.

16:26 And so I was like, dude, I'm looking to start this like death metal stuff.

16:29 Here's some bands that I like or whatever.

16:31 And then he was like on board with it and obviously still in the band.

16:35 Yeah.

16:36 And, and, but we just went through so many different members to try to lock in.

16:40 That sound because so many people were just like when we're saying heavy metal, you know,

16:45 they're, they're thinking rock, right.

16:47 And so the people will listen to, I mean, and I'm not throwing any shade, they'll listen

16:51 to something like, uh, like shine down or nickel back or something like that.

16:56 And then they'll say metal, even like my, my buddies in the band skillet, like that they

17:00 are rock, but people will say, Oh, it's metal.

17:04 If there's any type of a faster drum beat or any type of like, you know, they add a string

17:09 to the guitar.

17:10 And then also, and it's a little chuggy.

17:11 And then they're like, Oh, that's metal.

17:12 It's like, if it could be played on the radio, like it's probably not the metal we're talking

17:16 about.

17:17 Right.

17:18 Cause I mean, cause radio, they go about as far as like Pantera, Metallica, Megadeth,

17:22 Slipknot, like, but I mean, nowadays, I mean, yeah, one of me now you got, you know, band

17:28 like sleep token is one of the biggest metal bands on the planet, but you could also listen

17:32 to some of their songs.

17:33 And it's very like, we're going to, we're going to hit you so hard on this next one.

17:37 It's going to really rock your socks.

17:39 This is believer by imagine, right?

17:42 This is caramel by sleeping or sleep token.

17:45 Yeah.

17:46 So you're trying to like, you're trying to dial in the sound.

17:48 And again, it's, it's got to be dang your impossible at that time to find someone that

17:52 like not only loves Jesus, but can that can actually play the music that you're trying

17:58 to like find for the sound.

17:59 And this, we're all new at this point, like this is all new Christians too.

18:03 Like this is like me just figuring it out, right?

18:07 Like this is like, and I was telling all the guys, this is kind of the lyrical content

18:10 I'm going for, you know, if you're okay with that, right?

18:15 Like, if you guys want to join a band like that.

18:18 And so we just went through so many different drummers, so many different bass players

18:22 and something.

18:23 And then we just landed on, and then we had to go to the next town over, which is Corona,

18:27 California, which is that's where the scene was happening.

18:30 That's what showcase was, which is the, was the premier venue that every band play like

18:36 no doubt, blink when you two started there, like this was like a, this is a really happening

18:41 spot.

18:42 So that town, that high school had all the kids that, you know, liked that kind of music,

18:48 but it was metal core.

18:49 Yeah.

18:50 They all were in the metal core.

18:51 It was like hard to find the guys that really liked heavy stuff and to see the vision.

18:56 And eventually just as, you know, I guess in 2005, we've kind of solidified a little

19:01 bit of a group and we put 500 bucks together and recorded a demo through it on my space

19:08 at the time.

19:10 And you'll, you'll did pure volume too, right?

19:13 I'm trying to everywhere.

19:14 We did.

19:15 Okay.

19:16 I was trying to remember where I found you guys, it was either pure volume or someone gave

19:17 me your.

19:18 Yeah, there was a few of those kinds of like MP3 downloaded pure volumes where I found

19:22 oxburns red with their first album, like their first main album, the first LP.

19:27 Yeah.

19:28 I remember that now.

19:29 Pure volume.

19:30 That's so funny.

19:31 That's so random.

19:32 I thought about that.

19:33 Yeah.

19:34 Yeah.

19:35 Anyway, go ahead.

19:36 Yeah.

19:37 So, um, put together a little EP, put it out and, um, well, even like, so just even slowly

19:42 down.

19:43 So like what the process of writing a song, because so a lot of people don't know, especially

19:47 whenever your favorite band, when you go back to their EP, yeah, a lot of times people

19:51 are like, well, it just doesn't sound very good.

19:53 It sounds a little clunky.

19:54 Some people it's like, guys, do you realize they probably recorded all of those in the

19:57 same day?

19:58 Yeah.

19:59 And there's no time for a rewrite.

20:00 Sometimes there's no times for like re-recording.

20:02 Sometimes you're, you're recording as the full band.

20:05 You're not recording drums and then you're adding, you know, you know, vocals and backup

20:09 vocals and then you're adding guitar like, so what was the process of even writing those

20:13 first songs of the EP and then then fast forward to when you're actually recording them like

20:18 first time in a studio and you're, you know, teenager.

20:21 So we had a guitarist in Chris Fourno.

20:23 He, me and him, he would come over to my house and I would just show him records.

20:27 I'm like, dude, and he was a really good guitar player.

20:31 He, I would be like, you know, this band, I would cattle decap, red cord, you know, these

20:37 kinds of bands.

20:38 Oh, red cord.

20:39 Yeah.

20:40 Yeah.

20:41 So sick at that time.

20:42 And then, and I would be like, I want to really like fuse this together.

20:46 And we just, it was just like, and he, we didn't have anything to record it with.

20:49 So it's just him kind of in stringing along like riffs together and I'm like, something

20:55 like this part next, something like this part next and we're just frank and staining sort

20:58 of all these death metal bands and metal bands we liked.

21:01 And he was just very good at like, okay, like this, and I'm like, no, I'm making a little

21:06 bit more chugging and I'm like, cool.

21:07 And he's he playing a six string or is he playing it?

21:09 Yeah, this is six string.

21:10 Okay.

21:11 Cause now y'all are doing like seven.

21:12 Yeah.

21:13 Yeah.

21:14 Which completely different sound, but yeah.

21:15 Oh, yeah.

21:16 Corn is a seven.

21:17 Oh, okay.

21:19 There you go.

21:20 Yeah.

21:21 And apparently just almost screw your tuning things almost completely off if you want the

21:24 fealty sound.

21:25 I guess.

21:26 Yeah.

21:27 Yeah.

21:28 Yeah, no kidding.

21:29 Um, so if we would just string, we would Frankenstein these death metal songs together

21:32 and then he would remember them.

21:34 He was really good at it.

21:35 And then we would just get our drummer in the, you know, whatever the next day of two

21:39 days.

21:40 And we, he would just kind of go over the parts and, and that's what you did the like

21:44 nowadays, we can record the riff, program the drums, send it over it.

21:48 Everybody can listen to it.

21:49 Oh, I like that.

21:50 Yeah.

21:51 Back then we didn't have any of that.

21:52 So it was just kind of like, you had to jam it out, jam it out, jam it out, jam it out,

21:56 jam it out, jam it out, jam it out.

21:57 And then we got to the point where we did that for five songs.

22:01 And then we were like, okay, well, next step is to record them.

22:06 We found a guy that would do it for a hundred bucks a song, which is insane.

22:10 Yeah.

22:11 And went over to his studio, he's about a couple of towns over from us, went to his

22:16 studio, did it one day, did, you know, guitars, jump, bass, all one vocals, five songs, one

22:22 day done, put the, got the EP, and then we, um, we actually, oh, we made, we burned a bunch

22:28 of CDs and we were in high school still and I do, we slant, we slanged them for two bucks

22:35 a pop, me and Manny.

22:37 And that's how we would get like extra pizza, you know, pizza meal deals.

22:40 Of course.

22:41 Yeah.

22:42 Let's go.

22:43 Yeah.

22:44 So this is going to be the nostalgia podcast.

22:45 Oh, yeah.

22:46 Yeah.

22:47 The meal deals.

22:48 And we would just like have like, I'd have like three slashes of the pizza, couple, couple

22:51 bags of chips for the next period and then, you know, a couple sodas or whatever.

22:55 And we, we did that a lot.

22:57 And then eventually we did a show and then we were like, oh, well, next step is now we

23:00 got to play a show.

23:01 So we did a, I think our first show was a Halloween show at a skate park, probably, you

23:06 know, 50 to, 50 to 100 people, which was, and the, and they were energetic about it.

23:12 That's right.

23:13 It wasn't like sidelining.

23:14 Like they actually were like stowed to all like, this is cool.

23:19 And then eventually turned into my timeline is probably going to be off.

23:24 But I think we got offered to do, like, I think we did a park show.

23:31 They got shut down.

23:32 They're like, Oh, like, like, you know, like noise kind of blank.

23:35 Yeah.

23:36 You guys are insane if you think you're going to play here at a park and for like families

23:40 and stuff.

23:41 And we're like, mashing and stuff.

23:42 They got shut down.

23:43 And then eventually I think we, there are that, that town in Corona where showcases in

23:47 the, the menu, they had a, they had a bunch of bands.

23:50 And I think they were doing a battle of the bands or not battle the bands.

23:52 They were doing a, um, like a local band show.

23:56 Yeah.

23:57 And they asked us because we were kind of developing a little bit of steam and they were like,

24:00 you want to open the show and like, of course, and we crushed it, did a great thing.

24:04 And then, and then it kind of snowballed into like, Oh, doing a really good shows, doing

24:08 a really good shows, doing a really good shows, eventually get to Redlands.

24:11 We're sleeping giant and a holy name.

24:13 All those guys are.

24:14 Yeah.

24:15 And we start playing their town, which is Redlands.

24:17 And we started doing really good there at a, at their church.

24:20 They actually had like a church where they like hardcore kids.

24:24 Yeah.

24:25 Um, and so we would play their, their church.

24:27 And that's how the guitar player, Eric got ahold of our EP and we became friends and

24:33 he was like, Oh, I'm going to pitch this to face down and face downs.

24:36 Like this is insane.

24:37 Not going to do this.

24:38 And he's like, come to one of their shows.

24:39 So the next show we played, the owner of face down went place went, you know, 500 people

24:44 just lose in their minds.

24:46 He was like, Oh, I get it now.

24:48 And then he, he was like, I want to sign you guys and he took us to their headquarters and

24:54 he was like, you know, and they do a very good deal, very good splits, very good people.

25:00 Uh, I love, I love those people.

25:02 They're, they're awesome.

25:04 And they hooked us up and they, they, they're the ones that, you know, supported us and got

25:07 us the money for our first record and our second record and our third record.

25:11 And then once we put out our first record, no, but we're still on the EP, we're touring

25:17 with bands like Elijah, have you ever heard of Elijah?

25:21 That's a nostalgic band.

25:22 Do you want to people know they're going to freak out Elijah Molotov solution?

25:31 Um, uh, oh, speaking of, uh, okay, there was a band called Lynch thigh beauty.

25:34 Okay.

25:35 Never heard of him.

25:36 But you might have heard of the guitar player out of Lynch thigh beauty, which is a guy

25:39 named Khalil round tree.

25:41 Yeah.

25:42 Yeah.

25:43 UFC fighter, fight to two or five division, far for the title last year for the title.

25:47 Yeah.

25:48 Great guy.

25:49 Like hardcore vocals.

25:52 Yeah.

25:53 No, he is a hardcore kid.

25:54 Yeah.

25:55 So he was in that band.

25:56 And then he during our set.

25:57 So we were touring with them and we, we were playing a dude, I think we were playing like

26:02 a cantina Mexican restaurant.

26:04 Yeah.

26:05 Let's go.

26:06 Do you know how they have those tile, like, um, damn, what are they?

26:09 The most eight tables?

26:10 Yeah.

26:11 No, no, no, no, but the flooring, you know, yeah, of course, you know, that kind of flooring

26:14 there, like that tile flooring.

26:17 Wow, obviously people are drinking water and spilling it.

26:20 It's super slick.

26:21 So slick.

26:22 Yeah.

26:23 So here comes Khalil round, round tree, round kicking everywhere snaps his knee or legs

26:29 something.

26:30 Yeah.

26:31 Dude broke it.

26:33 And this is in the middle of tour.

26:35 And so he's like, so his fan, his van is full.

26:39 And so they were like, Doom guys, we have, we don't, we have like an extra bench.

26:45 And, uh, so he saw Khalil's like, and I ride with you guys in close 15 at the time.

26:50 He's a young kid.

26:51 And, um, we're like, sure, yeah, for sure, clearly, you know, at least we could do you

26:56 broke your leg to our base.

26:57 Yeah.

26:58 I was like, come with us.

26:59 So Khalil came with us, became really good friends with them.

27:02 And Khalil actually became like our merge guy, but also just our, um, just our buddy,

27:09 like he, he was always around.

27:10 I think he lived with David for a while.

27:13 He would come with us to recording studios and all this stuff.

27:16 So like anyways, that's a backstory of Khalil, which is, it's awesome because I love where

27:20 he's at.

27:21 That's why like it's cool to see where he came from and the struggles he faced and to see

27:25 where he's at now.

27:26 It's like, dude, and he, he seems to genuinely have a good head on the shoulders when you

27:30 hear him talk.

27:31 And I mean, you know, we talk about this, we don't want to get too far off on it.

27:34 But like when he lost to Alex Bahada, I remember watching the first round of that fight and

27:39 I just go, cause Alex Bahada is a berserker and like he's a terrifying human being.

27:44 Totally.

27:45 Khalil came to win that fight.

27:46 Yeah.

27:47 He came to win the title because a lot of people were complaining that he even got the title

27:49 shot because where he was at in the rankings and I could have been a better guy.

27:52 And oh, they're just doing this cause they want to feed Alex, you know, a, a, you stand

27:56 up fighter or whatever.

27:57 Yeah.

27:58 And he went in there and won the first round.

28:00 He hurt Pajeta at one point.

28:02 For sure.

28:03 And I mean, at, at some point, you know, during the fight, it turned, Pajeta, you know, got

28:07 the timing.

28:08 And I figured out, like, okay, Khalil's fading a little bit.

28:11 Yeah.

28:12 But you want to talk about a guy that gained more fans in the loss than, you know, some

28:15 guys gain in a victory.

28:17 More people became fans of Khalil because you want to talk about going out on your shield.

28:20 Like guys, if you don't know what we're talking about, it was two, oh five, I'm pretty sure

28:23 it was last year was Alex Bahada, Khalil round tree, they fought for the title.

28:27 You know, Pajeta was defending the title.

28:29 One of the better fights that you'll see in the 205 pound division.

28:33 And you know, it was spectacular from both of them because Khalil at one point his career

28:36 went to Thailand to start doing a whole lot more Muay Thai.

28:40 He was always like a, like a brutal striker, but then he became super precise, his stance

28:45 changed.

28:46 His leg kicks were insane.

28:47 And he always had good boxing.

28:48 He used to be so big.

28:49 Dude, he's so huge.

28:50 No, but like he was a big, like, yeah, yeah.

28:53 And then he just shrunk that and those bones are probably a, you know, and his back is

28:57 like, I couldn't imagine being hit by Khalil, I wouldn't want to.

29:01 I mean, cause that's both, I think, I think the referee, um, after the fight, I think he

29:06 like talked to Joe Rogan, he's like, I've, I've never heard shots like this, cause it

29:11 was like two slabs of granite, just like slamming into each other in time.

29:15 So anyway, yeah.

29:16 Shout out.

29:17 And then you're a fight.

29:18 Really?

29:19 Oh God.

29:20 Did you watch that one?

29:21 Yeah.

29:22 He had it.

29:23 And then it just kind of gets.

29:24 And that's the thing.

29:25 So, you know, even just kind of continuing on, cause I said, you know, he seems to have

29:27 really good head on his shoulders.

29:28 Yeah.

29:29 Because when you lose a big fight, when you're in a big moment, when you have the brightest

29:33 lights, when you're the main event, when you're fighting for a title, any of those types of

29:35 things that Khalil, you know, for a while there, you're like, oh, he's just, he's never

29:39 going to find his full potential.

29:40 And then he, he does, and he finds his lane, but when you lose close fights like that, but

29:45 then you don't hide from the media, you hide from the microphone.

29:49 You don't make excuses.

29:50 Oh, I came in a training camp herd, I came in the night herd and, you know, if I got

29:53 another chance of blah, blah, no, he's just like, I got outclass tonight.

29:57 Like I had my spots.

29:58 I had my opportunity and I didn't get there back to the drawing board.

30:02 And he seems to have an eye towards the future with his family, uh, with the stuff he wants

30:06 to do in business.

30:07 He's already thinking about life, like after fighting, he's not going to be that guy that's

30:11 hanging on until his late thirties, early forties, just trying to make another run for

30:15 a title and getting a whole bunch more brain damage on the way.

30:17 He just, he seems to really kind of understand the game he's in and how to play it.

30:22 That's his like, uh, I think the hardcore roots, right?

30:25 Like just overcoming adapting, like, yeah, just kind of, you know, don't, don't be beaten.

30:31 Don't stay beaten down.

30:32 Right.

30:33 And that's, that's, and that's been his mentality and it's, it's so cool to see.

30:36 So anyways, he was in a band and that's how we got to know him.

30:39 And we kind of did the Elijah Molotov solution, then shy beauty, um, and then we did a few

30:44 other local things.

30:45 And then eventually when our album came out, we got to do a tour, um, a world, um, a US

30:52 tour and it was a white chapel.

30:54 And then that's, and then it was just like, Oh, cool.

30:57 Like, Grant, like from the beginning, I was like, we're a Christian, but death melt down

31:00 like this isn't going anywhere.

31:02 Like the, I, I knew, I literally just wanted to play local shows.

31:06 Yeah.

31:07 And, um, I was just like, had no plans of like doing anything.

31:13 And so we got, we got offered a tour and I was like, Oh, sure, like, yeah, let's go.

31:19 So we did that.

31:20 And they're like, Oh, like towards the end of it, you don't know what's going to happen.

31:24 So you just go, Hey, man, fun run.

31:26 Cool deal.

31:27 And then you get your first time you're hanging out like tour buddies that you've been with

31:32 the last six weeks and you're like, Oh, see you later.

31:34 And then like, I think the week prior before the tour has ended, they're like, Hey, do

31:37 you and white chapel want to go out again?

31:39 And we're like, Yeah.

31:41 Yeah.

31:42 And so we went out on another one.

31:43 And then they kind of say, Hey, you kind of want to go on another one, another one, another

31:46 one, another one.

31:47 And just kind of like.

31:48 And now I'm here.

31:49 And it's one.

31:50 And for, for those in the audience that don't know who white chapel is, I mean, this is,

31:53 this is not Christian death metal, like they're a very, very dark imagery, very dark lyrical

32:00 content.

32:01 You know, fan base.

32:02 And let's get to this.

32:03 Let's get to this.

32:04 Yeah.

32:05 My whole point of all this was never to be like Christian boy one on one band that's kind

32:08 of like, I'm only going to play with Christian.

32:10 I literally were going to play cornerstone every year until cornstone is on a thing.

32:14 Yeah.

32:15 Like I'm down to play those shows.

32:16 I've always been okay.

32:17 But like, I want to play with the white chapels, the, the job for Cowboys, the dying fetuses,

32:24 the, the, all those, I want to talk about that because last night I mentioned when I

32:28 became a Christian, like in middle school, like POD was one of those first bands where

32:31 it's like, okay, this music's actually awesome.

32:33 But these people seem to love Jesus.

32:34 Yeah.

32:35 I remember when it was announced that POD, this would have been probably after satellite

32:39 was released.

32:40 Yeah.

32:41 And so I think that's still their best selling album.

32:42 Absolutely.

32:43 It came out on September 11th.

32:44 All right.

32:45 So that's how I'll always remember that came out on December 11th too.

32:48 Yeah.

32:49 September 11th.

32:50 Yeah.

32:51 On September 11th.

32:52 And it was like, cause they wanted to lead with boom and somebody's in their world, because

32:56 Sonny told me they're like, somebody said, we just can't do boom.

32:59 And then so they led with a live or anyway, so they let something else because if they

33:05 had led with boom, like it would have been the album would have been banned considering

33:09 the timeline, but it was announced that POD was going to go out on tour with corn.

33:14 And at the time, they're probably the biggest new metal band and all that, but it's corn.

33:19 This is not safe for the whole family, even though they had a family values tour and even

33:23 though they had all this was not safe for the whole family.

33:26 It was the bad kids at school that wore the corn t-shirts, right?

33:29 The, you know, the derelicts, the, the goth kids, like the kids that were always sat in

33:33 all that.

33:34 I wish you could see a picture of me in middle school wearing a corn shirt.

33:35 I look like a corny.

33:36 I look corny with the, the backwards R and so like the, but I remember being so heartbroken

33:43 because I was like, Oh, no, yeah, like my little Christian ban.

33:47 I'm a warrior.

33:48 I'm a warrior with, with the POD guys and all that.

33:50 Yeah.

33:51 And now they're going out with corn and it never occurred to me process with that.

33:55 Is that what do you think?

33:56 You think, Oh, they're going to tour with corn and then corn's going to say Satan, Satan,

34:00 Satan, Satan ties them now again, I'm, I'm 14 years old, 15 years old, right?

34:05 People in their 20s still believe that they think that if a Christian band goes out with

34:08 the non Christian band, the Christian band, that influence only goes one way, even within

34:15 Christian, I remember having a discussion and argument with a buddy of mine, cause Shane

34:19 and Shane, who's probably my favorite contemporary Christian music group.

34:22 I think they're absolutely spectacular.

34:24 They were doing a show, it was a red rock show with like, it was Phil Wickham and a couple

34:30 of other people, but then it was the, the, the worship leaders from a Bethel and so obviously

34:36 Bethel as a ministry, as a church, super heretical, a lot of horrible stuff that they do.

34:42 There's corruption that's even come out in the last few months, like some bad stuff going

34:45 on with that.

34:46 I hear about that.

34:47 But was it happening?

34:48 Then too?

34:49 Apparently it's been happening for a very little time.

34:51 Like was it known?

34:52 No, I don't think it was known like it's like, because they were big and they were like

34:56 the standard, right?

34:57 Oh, yeah.

34:58 It was them and Hillsong.

34:59 Right.

35:00 It's like, you know, you're basically picking between those two.

35:01 I remember having this debate with my buddy who's like, I cannot believe Shane and Shane

35:03 would share a stage with those people that have such horrible beliefs.

35:08 And I kind of had to be like, hold on, man, because it's like, and as we talked about

35:12 last night, there are a bunch of Christian artists on Christian radio that are not followers

35:18 of Christ.

35:20 And even if the lead singer or the worship leaders, a follower of Christ, the basis isn't like

35:25 the guy playing the keys isn't their producer, their manager, they're all those people on

35:30 the tour.

35:31 They're not Christians.

35:32 They're just people that are the music.

35:33 Are you talking about the artists?

35:34 Like, are you talking about artistry or because I know about in churches that like they're

35:40 just hiring a base player, right?

35:42 Oh, yeah.

35:43 They're high in session.

35:44 Musicians.

35:45 Yeah, they're high in session.

35:46 But I'm talking about.

35:47 So the point I was making to my buddy, I was like, Hey, dude, like we know that Shane Bernard

35:48 and Shane Everett of Shane and Shane are Christ following Bible believing evangelical Christians.

35:53 We know that.

35:55 But you're saying because they're playing on the same physical stage with somebody that's

36:01 purporting to be Christian, but maybe believe some heretical things that that's somehow

36:05 anathema that's somehow like unacceptable.

36:08 And so that's kind of a downstream derivative, like even in the Christian world, but going

36:11 back to the corn and POD thing, again, in my 15 year old 16 year old brain, I thought,

36:17 Oh, no, it's kind of like when Green Day finally went big and all the punk rock kids

36:21 are like, Oh, they sold out.

36:23 I thought it was like selling out, but more like selling your soul.

36:26 Like, Oh my gosh, you're going out with corn and you're probably just going to be drinking

36:29 and smoking and, you know, having sex with random girls.

36:32 And it's like, cause I thought the influence could only go one way.

36:35 Right.

36:36 And I asked Sonny about that when he came on the show last year.

36:38 I asked specifically about that tour, but it seemed like y'all never had, because there

36:41 are bands that I know.

36:42 What did you say?

36:43 Curious.

36:44 Well, yeah.

36:45 So from what I can remember, he was basically like we, we never wanted to be the Christian

36:49 band that only played for Christians.

36:50 And it's like, if we're called to be people of the book and we're called to be fishers

36:53 of men, we can't just fish and church basements, right?

36:57 Sure.

36:58 And at that time, I think Sonny was getting a lot of, you know, getting a lot of crap

37:01 similar to what you did that their sound was satanic and again, they're more like kind

37:05 of rap rock, like kind of, you know, a little bit of metal stuff here and there, a little

37:09 bit of reggae stuff that's kind of brought in there.

37:12 But then like, you might have fun or whatever and have uplift my mood.

37:16 I throw on POD.

37:17 Right.

37:18 Right.

37:19 But like they would go to these churches and they would, they wouldn't be allowed to play

37:21 in the sanctuary because of the music and the demonic base they use.

37:25 Yeah.

37:26 They would play in basements and so Sonny was like, yeah, so we played those basements

37:30 and that's where our people were.

37:31 These were followers of Christ that just didn't like, you know, maybe the hymns or the CCM.

37:35 Yeah.

37:36 And so like that's kind of where they went, but that, that's kind of what's the mindset,

37:40 but it seems like for y'all from the beginning, there was never any qualms because what you

37:43 saying during the EP era, that's when a case of strain kind of found you guys, Vincent

37:47 or without have been later, you know that during the EP, so I want you to say that because

37:51 like I'll say for, for everyone that was in the scene in the early 2000s, like it was

37:56 like the Acacia strain had their own like gravitational pull.

38:00 Yeah.

38:01 Because of how brutal and accessible their music was because I can remember the first time

38:05 I heard car bomb.

38:06 Yeah.

38:07 And being like, what is this?

38:08 Because my buddies, yeah, because I was in college and my buddies went to a show at

38:11 the green door that I had some training for work.

38:13 So I couldn't go.

38:14 But it was like, I think it was between the buried in me, red cord, like, okay, it may

38:20 have been y'all.

38:21 But one of the openers was Acacia strain.

38:23 Yeah.

38:24 And I was like, and my buddies told me afterwards.

38:25 Your dad headlined it.

38:27 Okay.

38:28 It may have been barrier dead.

38:29 So it was something like that.

38:30 But it's at the green door, like 500, 500 person place.

38:32 But then they're like, dude, you've got to listen to the Acacia strain.

38:35 And I'm like, what is that?

38:36 How do you spell it?

38:37 Like, and all that.

38:38 And then so I get 3, 7, 5, 0, and then I put on car bomb and I'm like, oh my gosh, what

38:42 is this?

38:43 But apparently y'all made an impression on Vincent because this is a very anti-religion

38:48 band, anti-Christianity band.

38:49 But like, so you told me that story last night, I want you to kind of tell it again, like

38:52 how you and Acacia strain got connected.

38:55 Well, yeah.

38:56 So they played, I forgot who they were on tour with at the time.

39:00 But they played showcase theater and we were on the show.

39:03 We got to open it.

39:05 And so we do our death metal thing.

39:08 And I think Vincent was really in the, like he, like he, Vincent is very, even to this

39:12 day, I think he's very hip to new music and up and coming stuff.

39:16 Like I think he, he's really nautily, like even though he, case strain deserves a lot

39:22 more credit, like, you know, you get the chapel, it gets all the, it goes so much credit and

39:26 you know, all these other bands, but Acacia strain should get more credit than they.

39:30 I think a lot of people are like, oh, they're, they're just New England, they're New England

39:33 things and all that stuff.

39:34 Bro, you can't.

39:35 It's really weird because they shaped a whole sound like that heavy stuff.

39:40 They shaped.

39:41 Dude, like them.

39:42 And think, think about it.

39:43 If you were to say, oh yeah, every time I die, that's just like a Northern New York

39:47 thing.

39:48 That's just like, it's like, what?

39:49 Yeah.

39:50 Like Acacia strain every time I die.

39:51 Those bands were trying to get that, that sound very unique sound.

39:54 So yeah.

39:55 So we, we opened up a show for them and did it was a great show is fun.

40:02 I mean, that's what I'm saying.

40:03 Like we play with secular bands all the time and it's just like you would think that like,

40:09 and I get it.

40:10 Like if we were under oath, maybe playing with like Acacia strain and soiling green and all

40:14 these like death metal kind of eerie bands, it could be a problem.

40:18 Yeah.

40:19 And then, but for us, it was a little too happy, very happy.

40:23 Right.

40:24 So it was kind of like, this is, this is like your stereotypical like cringy metal or whatever.

40:30 And so when we play, we did, that's why we just never really got the hate that you would

40:35 think we would get.

40:37 And in a lot of times it was the complete opposite.

40:40 It was like, don't, don't agree with you, but so sick and I'm like, dude, thanks for

40:43 coming out.

40:44 You know, it was freaking awesome.

40:46 And so anyways, we play, crush it, then Acacia strain.

40:51 I guess their vocalist was listening or watching or whatever, because there's not in that venue,

40:55 there's really no green room, nowhere where you can be.

40:58 So you're kind of just there.

41:00 And so we play, I think he goes to our merch table to go ask the guy like, dude, where's

41:07 your vocalist?

41:08 There were, this is so, that was an amazing set.

41:11 And he's like, I don't know.

41:12 And so he goes and does his thing or whatever, and then I go check on merch and the guy's

41:17 like, hey, events of a Michaela strains looking for you and I go, Oh God, it is, you know,

41:21 they have their reputation.

41:22 Yeah.

41:23 They're just so heavy and so cool and whatever.

41:24 So I'm like, Oh, okay.

41:26 Well, here it is.

41:27 Here we go.

41:28 Here's a, here's my persecution moment.

41:30 This is what they were talking about.

41:32 And so eventually I find him and he just, the, the coolest dude ever, bro, that was amazing.

41:40 Great show.

41:41 He's like, just giving me like, again, these bands don't have to say this to me.

41:44 He's giving me flowers.

41:45 He's giving me flowers for a local band that's like done nothing.

41:49 And he is at like, he is the driving force of heavy metal music at the time.

41:54 And so I was like, dude, thank you so much.

41:57 He's like, Oh, you know, we would love for you to come finish this tour out with us.

42:00 And I'm over here thinking like, yeah, is that, can we?

42:03 And he was like, no, that's not how the business works.

42:06 You can't just hop on a tour.

42:07 Wish you could.

42:08 You'd maybe sometime in the future or whatever.

42:11 And then eventually flat, you know, flash forward a few years.

42:15 It's just like, he's on our wreck.

42:16 He's on what he's on our, there'll be violence record.

42:19 We've toured them many times.

42:21 We've become, I become friends with them and just always been a cool dude and people, you

42:28 know, his stage presence.

42:29 Now his stage presence is way more positive.

42:32 Yeah.

42:33 I think he's, as he got older or whatever, he's kind of just like, you know, still doing

42:36 great music, just, I think his, his overall or just kind of like, I'm going to have, I'm

42:41 going to have.

42:42 I'm going to have fun.

42:43 Yeah.

42:44 More than I'm going to try to create this entity.

42:46 And but behind the scenes, man, always been so cool.

42:51 Everyone is, that's, that's the thing, dude.

42:52 Every band we've ever toured dying fetus was cool about like, there's so cool.

42:56 I'm going to give flowers to three inches of blood, which I think they did for this

43:00 tour for a tour we did with them.

43:03 Many years ago, they, I guess they usually, the reason I know this, because they didn't

43:10 do this on the, at all the tour and about halfway through the tour, I'm sitting in the

43:14 back of the, of the room watching them and a, and a guy that kind of recognized me as

43:17 a fan of just, he's at the show.

43:20 I don't know him.

43:21 He comes up and he goes, dude, I've seen three inches of blood, like five times.

43:26 And they usually have like a, a doll or like a, a blown a figure of Jesus and they're hitting

43:34 it and, but they're not doing it this tour.

43:39 And I'm like, I don't know if that, I don't want to know, I don't know if it's coincidence

43:43 because they're just screaming like, Hey, dude, we kind of know what I'm gonna do.

43:45 And then we don't want to be that guy and they're Canadian.

43:48 So they're so, they're so, they're so happy.

43:50 Yeah.

43:51 Happy employee.

43:52 They're so nice.

43:53 So, dude, it's just like bands have done that for us.

43:56 And I was just like, I want to like, as much as people want to be like, oh, there's a

44:00 Danica.

44:01 They're mean or this or that.

44:02 It's just like, that couldn't be further from the truth.

44:05 These are normal average people that work in our families.

44:09 Yeah.

44:10 Well, I want to, I want to actually get into that a little bit.

44:11 So we talked about that last night because one of the hard things for me as an adult

44:15 was going back and hearing about all the bands that were like on solid state and, you know,

44:20 the Christian metal bands and finding out that a lot of these bands and the people in never

44:25 were Christians.

44:26 They just knew they could make more money getting paid, you know, $1,000, $1,200 to play

44:31 at a church as opposed to getting paid $100, play at a bar.

44:33 Yeah.

44:34 And so they could, you know, go out and do that.

44:37 But a lot of people think, so are there people in bands that are practicing LaVane

44:42 or theistic Satanists?

44:44 Yes.

44:46 But then there are a whole bunch of people that are putting the pentagrams up on the

44:49 logos.

44:50 They're doing the dark stuff.

44:51 They're pretending they're doing a seance on stage and all that.

44:54 Which is not stuff you should be toying around with, but they don't mean it, right?

44:58 They're doing it to, hey, this is the type of art that I want to do.

45:02 Like, I remember when our mutual buddy, Mike Dragotch was talking to Alex from Slaughter

45:07 to Prevail and, you know, you see their imagery and the skulls and the horns and all that

45:12 kind of stuff.

45:13 And then he talks to him.

45:14 He's just like a normal dude.

45:15 Oh, he couldn't.

45:16 He's not sacrificing cats and cutting himself during like in casting spells and stuff like

45:21 that.

45:22 I mean, well, I don't know the whole band, but I'm pretty sure judging off Alex and their

45:27 bass player, who I talked to a lot, dude, I mean, their bass player couldn't be more

45:33 of a sweet dude.

45:34 Like anytime I hit him up on Instagram, I mean, he hits me back, dude.

45:38 The problem is, the problem is when fans lean into it, they think it's real and they make

45:43 it part of their identity.

45:45 And so obviously I'm not saying that what they're doing is positive at all.

45:49 Like it's very dark, it's toying with and, you know, for sure flirting with the demonic.

45:53 What's the name of Christian?

45:54 So what do you expect?

45:55 Right.

45:56 These are secularists.

45:57 These are people that know not what they do.

45:58 Right.

45:59 And but it is kind of funny because last night you were talking about a few bands, well,

46:02 we'll leave them nameless.

46:03 But, you know, when you would be on tour and being in the green room, you said you would

46:06 have your Bible with you and you would read the Bible.

46:08 And it was obviously if you read y'all's lyrics or even look at y'all's imagery from

46:13 your albums or, you know, the stuff that's behind you during your sets that y'all are

46:17 clearly Christ followers that you actually believe the stuff, that that's not just some

46:20 sort of a gimmick.

46:21 And if that's going to be your gimmick, you're not going to do it and then try to go tour

46:24 with white chapel and acacia strain.

46:27 But it gave you a lane with these guys, you know, because a lot of these guys didn't grow

46:33 up in church.

46:34 They never owned a Bible.

46:35 They'd never opened a Bible.

46:36 But like kind of tell me, talk to us a little bit about what you're saying last night.

46:39 Like at different points during these tours, yeah, some of these guys would kind of seek

46:42 you out because it's kind of like what what Joby says where he's like, Hey, if you're

46:46 the goofball in the office and then something goes wrong with somebody and, you know, they

46:50 really need some support.

46:51 They don't go to the goofball in the office.

46:53 They go to the prayer guy in the office, the guy in the office who's basically said, Hey,

46:56 I know, you know, you don't really go church.

46:58 You're not really a believer.

46:59 But it's anything I can be praying for you about.

47:01 It's like when your life's falling apart, you're not going goofball.

47:03 You're going to the prayer guy.

47:04 And for 1000%.

47:05 And yeah, so yeah, there has been, I mean, a good amount of people that have, you know,

47:13 told me aside, secretly DM me or whatever, you know, just asking more questions, kind

47:19 of seeing like, Hey, I like this, like, Oh, you actually do this thing.

47:27 This wasn't your, you know, because everything's gimmicks in bands, right?

47:30 And everybody has a mask on and everybody has their own little thing.

47:34 I got to keep it up.

47:36 And that's when you're when you're a younger band, that's kind of what you do, right?

47:40 And then eventually you get old enough to where you're like, all right, I'm just going

47:44 to be my, like, like Vincent, right?

47:45 You just could be, you become just softer and you just, this is what we do.

47:49 And so I think maybe some of the people thought that of me where they're like, Oh, you're

47:54 just not like this, like we're calling ourselves a Christian band to, because at that time,

48:00 dude, because August, at 2004, even 2002, you got the normal jeans, the August Prince

48:04 Red, these guys, these bands are picking up steam undergrowth, right?

48:07 They're picking up steam.

48:09 And the, the, the overall thought was, if we say we're a Christian band, like these bands

48:17 that are just blowing up, we're going to have a built in audience and we're going to sell

48:22 millions of records.

48:23 Yeah.

48:24 Like that was the thought there's been so many bad, I mean, clearly, because that's what

48:28 they all like kind of like drifted off, right?

48:31 That was the thought is like, and that's what time we came up in 2005, six, seven.

48:38 And so that was the, that's so when you, when you actually like, Oh, he's reading a Bible,

48:43 or he's, you know, talking about Jesus.

48:46 And so people, you know, and some of them were years later.

48:51 Yeah.

48:52 Right.

48:53 Like you pray.

48:54 I'm not really a prayer guy.

48:55 I'm not really this guy, but can you buckle brother up?

49:00 And I'm like, of course, you know, absolutely.

49:02 And it's cool to see these guys come to Christ years later or an ask question.

49:08 And that was always the main drive behind it because I'm like, bro, I have, I grew up

49:14 in a place where there's all drugs and gangs and violence and nastiness, man.

49:20 That's where I grew up.

49:21 And it's just like, yeah, think I want to go do that again.

49:25 You think I want to, that's like, Oh, I found Jesus, but no, that's a lot better.

49:29 I, I rather dive into that.

49:31 I was like, no, that's not, that's never been my, my, my mission.

49:37 I was just like, and dude, I'm too rough and unpolished to like pretend to be a Christian.

49:44 Yeah.

49:45 Like, dude, I much rather just be Jack Daniels by the river, crank and freaking Hank all day.

49:51 You know what I mean?

49:52 Like, I would be like, I would claim that, but like when I start touring and I start seeing

50:00 lives and people's like, it's just depressed, depression, anxiety, all the things.

50:06 And I'm like, okay, these people, they know the problem.

50:10 They have all these problems, right?

50:11 Like all these bands, right?

50:12 They, they, you know, say I need somebody to save me.

50:15 I need, you know, all the, you know, then they name all the problems of life.

50:19 Like I'm freaking beating down and this and that and that.

50:22 And but there's never a solution.

50:23 Right.

50:24 The song ends, right?

50:25 It's just a press.

50:26 It's just angst.

50:27 Yeah.

50:28 It's just angst, right?

50:29 It just pure angst, which is cool, but it's like also like, okay, I need a, I kind of think

50:33 I need to give the solution and it's always going to be Jesus.

50:39 And no matter what you do, no matter how far along you get in music, business, whatever,

50:45 there's always going to be that thing.

50:48 And you're not going to, and if you don't know Jesus, you're going to, you're going

50:51 to try to fill it with another thing and another thing.

50:54 And so I always wanted to be a guy like, no, it's Jesus, no, but it could be, no, it's

50:58 Jesus.

50:59 And like, you know, fall, it didn't know it's Jesus.

51:02 It's Jesus.

51:03 He did the Bible.

51:04 Like just try it.

51:05 Yeah.

51:06 Like just try it.

51:07 Bro, read Proverbs and then skip to Ecclesiastes and you'll see a guy that tried to fill all

51:10 the gaps in his life with, with money, with women, with power.

51:14 Start with numbers.

51:15 Start reading numbers first.

51:16 That can work out here.

51:18 You're, you're going to be genealogy for a month.

51:20 We're going to, we're going to show you all the genealogy.

51:22 But like, so I'm so I'm curious for you because, you know, you can talk as much as you want

51:28 about kind of your upbringing, but very rough, not, not godly environments that you're

51:33 in, not godly influences.

51:35 And so for a guy that didn't grow up in church, but I didn't grow up around like riffraff and,

51:41 you know, substance abuse and all that, I'm just curious for you even about like, you

51:45 know, just even your testimony of how you even became a Christian, because I guess, I mean,

51:49 all that is foundational to even, you know, making the music that you started making and

51:52 that you're still making today, obviously.

51:54 So my, my, so yeah, like my parents are great.

51:57 I love them to death.

51:59 Sweet people.

52:00 They just, they were, they were wild.

52:01 Yeah.

52:02 They're having fun.

52:03 I like the party.

52:04 Yeah.

52:05 Like the party.

52:06 They're having fun.

52:07 And you know what?

52:08 Like, and I didn't, I didn't hate it.

52:09 You know, I mean, it wasn't like, you know, I just didn't hate it.

52:12 My dad would take me to go play pool, smokey bars, you know, he would let me go, you take

52:18 his camp.

52:19 It was just like, it was, it was, it was, it was fun.

52:23 It was wild because that's kind of my personality.

52:25 Like I like that.

52:27 And so, um, but I started like, you know, drinking and whatever and started partying

52:32 with friends and I was like, okay, this is, it's fun.

52:35 But again, it just has its time, dude.

52:39 And I'm, and eventually got into high school, still party, still party, still party.

52:44 And then about 17, 18, it was like, okay, because I grew up in Riverside and there's

52:50 a place called our lands.

52:51 And it's just gang filled and it's heroin and it's meth everywhere.

52:56 And so like, I, and I, this is the, these are people that I interact with all the time.

53:01 Like, I'm so used to talking to drug addicts.

53:04 Like I'm like, you know, they're all like, bro, what are you doing, man?

53:08 Like, yeah, cause it was just like, I was just, we were like, my dad has a glass shop

53:12 in Riverside.

53:13 It was just kind of like a local kind of place, right, where it's kind of, you know, I know

53:18 you had this, this, you know, that's the glass shop that's been there 40 years and people

53:22 will come by and they're all just like, Hey, man, I remember your little brothers and so

53:27 like, but like that's, these are the people I would talk to.

53:30 And so I always had a heart for, you know, drug addicts, alcoholics, all like that, homeless,

53:38 like I do have a heart for them because that's where I grew up in.

53:42 So and then here I am drinking and doing the things and I'm like, how am I going to make

53:48 a change in my, in a community and the world, wherever my influence can be, right?

53:54 Like, who I'm being like, is this what my life's going to be?

54:00 And then my dad, so my grandma, my nan, let's go to my nana, dude, she, she passed a couple

54:06 of years ago, but like, dude, worship leader in the church, young age, only guitar player,

54:12 like a picker, dude, like dope Arkansas.

54:18 We're talking, what are we talking?

54:19 We're talking Fort Smith, Arkansas.

54:20 I don't know if this is where she grew up, but I think she's spent most of time on it,

54:23 but Fort Smith is where she resided.

54:26 But like, dude, I think there's something could correct me, but like fender came out

54:30 like in 52, 1952 or something like that, like electric guitars.

54:35 And her church, I think paid like 13 bucks to get her a fender guitar for their church

54:41 barrel, which she still has, or she has, she, she passed it down to my dad.

54:48 But like, so my dad, very poor.

54:53 My dad didn't know his dad.

54:56 And they were very poor, but she was, she loved Jesus.

54:58 I mean, she loved Jesus.

55:01 And I think my only gift my dad ever got, like birthdays, Christmas, it was like a Bible.

55:07 So I, it's not like my, my dad grew up like Jesus, but we just didn't really do the church

55:15 thing.

55:16 Right.

55:17 But he said it enough to where I'm like, I never believed, like never an atheist, never

55:22 that always believes in like, there's got to be something like just my common sense is

55:26 kind of like there's got to be something.

55:27 Yeah.

55:28 And so eventually we went to church, like we did the Easter kind of thing sometimes

55:32 and we did this, this or maybe when they feel bad, I'm going to go wash some of this off

55:37 need to go wash some of this, maybe something like that.

55:40 And so I was like, but every time I went, I was like, I didn't hate it.

55:45 And so I got older and I was like, maybe I need to go back to that.

55:49 And so, you know, have you ever had a harvest Greg Lori?

55:52 Yeah.

55:53 Yeah, of course.

55:54 Yeah.

55:55 He was five minutes.

55:56 That's the church I went to.

55:57 That's great.

55:58 The mega mega church, but I liked it was good.

55:59 It was good for what I needed.

56:00 Um, at the time, um, went to his church and, and really just was like, I like this.

56:07 I feel good here and I feel like if I dive into this, I can make a change.

56:13 And then, but all that like God was intermingling as, as I'm getting more into the Bible, I'm

56:19 also getting fed more into like death metal.

56:23 So it's kind of, this is where the, the, the journey is starting to merge itself into where

56:29 I'm like, like the light bulbs going off, right?

56:32 Like, Satan, Satan, Satan, Satan, Satan, and I'm like, but Jesus, you know, like I, they

56:37 need to counter.

56:38 I need to like be like, right, cause I hate going with conventional, you know, anything.

56:45 I like, I'm going to push it a little bit.

56:47 Yeah.

56:48 So I'm like, maybe I can be the guy that starts the band.

56:53 I would never, and this is kind of my personality.

56:55 I would never join.

56:56 If slipknot was a broke joint slipknot, I wouldn't.

57:00 Not for like the reasons of like their say, whatever, they're not Christian.

57:04 Just for the sake of like, I don't like to be in things that have already, yeah, joining

57:09 some of that.

57:10 I like the creative process.

57:11 I love the creative process of starting.

57:13 So I was like, this could be sick or very heavy Christian band.

57:20 That is the kind of answer to the behemoths and the teamwork, ears and whatever.

57:27 And because I love those bands, it is just kind of like, but there needs to be a little

57:31 bit of pushback because this realm is just taken over, right?

57:35 And so I, that's, that's where it all just kind of like clicked in my head.

57:41 Hey, guys, real quick, you've probably heard me say it a bunch of times on the show, but

57:45 I think potentially the biggest societal issue that we face in this country is fatherless.

57:50 Homes.

57:51 And beyond that, I know that there are a lot of fathers with sons that do not know how

57:54 to lead them into manhood.

57:55 But one of the problems is that men in our society and churches are able to recognize

58:00 that there is a problem, but they currently lack the tools to begin solving it.

58:05 I don't want boys falling through the cracks while men and churches struggle figuring out

58:10 next steps.

58:11 That's why I want to introduce you to kids outdoor zone.

58:15 Kids outdoor zone or KOC is an outdoor adventure ministry that provides boys with men as mentors

58:20 to help direct and train them and outdoor skills and guide them to becoming a godly man.

58:26 The KOC vision is for every boy, whether they have a father in the home or not, to have

58:31 a man or a group of men to help him navigate the masculine journey into manhood and a relationship

58:37 with Jesus.

58:38 KOC groups help boys learn biblical masculinity, outdoor skills training, how to discern God's

58:43 call in their lives and much more.

58:45 KOC groups usually meet one Saturday a month, the mentors lead the boys in prayer and the

58:50 expectations for the day, and then they get to learn some sort of a life skill that will

58:54 help the boy as he grows into a man.

58:57 This could be everything from learning how to build a fire or a shelter, working on an

59:00 engine, fishing for food, shooting a firearm or a bow, traversing different terrains, cleaning

59:06 an animal and on and on from there.

59:08 Afterwards, the mentors take the boys through heart training that introduces a scriptural

59:12 basis for the life skill that they just learned, then the boys get some time to individually

59:16 reflect on what they've learned, and they're certainly a lot more.

59:19 But man, it just has such a big impact on these boys.

59:23 It's time to invest in the next generation of young men.

59:26 Guys, this is your call to action.

59:28 Start a kids outdoor zone group at your church by signing up at kidsoutdoorsone.com.

59:35 That's www.kidswithanessoutdoorsone.com.

59:40 There's a big red bar going through the middle of the home screen that says want to start

59:44 an outdoor group, click there to start.

59:47 Let's not just lament what's been happening.

59:49 Let's make a difference now.

59:51 Again, that's www.kidsoutdoorsone.com.

59:55 Sign your church up to lead a KOSY group today.

59:58 Well, so is there a point in there where you're like, "Hey, I don't just believe in God because

1:00:03 what I call country music theology."

1:00:05 So if you're born in the south, if your grandma or granddad went to church, if you were baptized

1:00:11 as a kid, if you go to church occasionally, if you own a Bible, if you vote Republican

1:00:16 and when you listen to music, it's 90s country, and then God's pro all that stuff so you get

1:00:20 to be a Christian.

1:00:21 So what point did you graduate from, no, no, no, okay, I know Jesus is a Middle Eastern

1:00:25 Jewish construction worker that walked this earth, but where you actually placed your

1:00:30 faith in that, "Hey, when he died on a cross, that counted for me."

1:00:34 Or after a hard night of drinking on a Saturday.

1:00:36 Okay.

1:00:37 Let's talk about it.

1:00:38 Yeah.

1:00:39 So yeah, I literally was like, okay, I drank too much.

1:00:43 And then the next day, the altar call came.

1:00:46 Okay.

1:00:47 And I was just like, okay, that's not, I'm so sick of being a hypocrite.

1:00:53 It's so exhausting, right?

1:00:55 Like when you're like, feel good, then you get a call the next day, dude.

1:00:59 It's got a freaking 24 pack, get over here cranking Hank and I'm like, be there.

1:01:08 And so it's, and dude, I can't drink very much.

1:01:11 So like, I just got sick, are we just getting sick?

1:01:15 And it was just kind of like this, like, well, they're all world doing it and it's just,

1:01:19 and I just like, this isn't the way to go, dude, like, you know the right way.

1:01:26 So they gave the altar call and I was like, I'm doing this.

1:01:30 And I went up there and then I said the prayer and I was like, I'm diving in.

1:01:34 And then that's when I started reading and that's when I was like really going for, okay.

1:01:39 So for, um, I need something as a distraction, right?

1:01:44 Because I can't, you're not just going to suppress it because you people are going to

1:01:47 keep going by.

1:01:48 So I need something.

1:01:49 So that's why.

1:01:50 Something to replace it with something to replace it.

1:01:51 And that's when like, I really put my, like, I need to start a band.

1:01:54 I need to do this.

1:01:55 I need to do this.

1:01:56 I need to call people.

1:01:57 I need to go here.

1:01:58 I need to make them moves.

1:01:59 And then that's when, and then when I started the band and then it was like, well, now I

1:02:02 need to write lyrics.

1:02:04 And then I was like, well, I want it to be biblical as much as I can and try to make

1:02:08 it in a, in a way that like is practical, but it's also like how I feel.

1:02:14 And so I was just, that's when I started reading, reading, reading, reading, reading, reading,

1:02:18 reading, reading, reading, reading, reading, read, read, read, read, wrote lyrics got, got

1:02:20 addicted to like songwriting and lyric writing.

1:02:23 Because I'm like, this is like feeding me.

1:02:27 And so I would, I would, it would just so much fun because there's something about heavy

1:02:34 music that just, you know, just, it just scratches that itch, right?

1:02:38 Like when I hit that, when I hear some of these notes, the demon notes, we'll get there to

1:02:45 all you demon notes folks out there when the demon notes, that's so funny to say that should

1:02:51 be the name he also knew next time on demon notes, dude, that's honestly, honestly, not

1:02:56 a terrible idea.

1:02:57 That's a terrible idea.

1:02:58 That's honestly kind of sick.

1:02:59 But when I hit the, just heavy, right, I'm like, even like bass in any like bass music,

1:03:07 those, those frequencies, you even talked about like Metallica, black album, like the way you

1:03:11 described it last night, I loved it.

1:03:12 It's a wall of sound.

1:03:13 You're getting hit by this wall of sound.

1:03:15 Just that chug.

1:03:16 Yeah.

1:03:17 And you're not going to get that as a bluegrass.

1:03:18 And I love bluegrass.

1:03:19 I love bluegrass.

1:03:20 But that 24 guitars layer together and it's going done.

1:03:25 And you're just like, yeah, you're just gone.

1:03:29 I'm gone.

1:03:30 Well, so in those early days, so you're, you're learning what it means to be a follower of

1:03:34 Christ.

1:03:35 It's actually kind of similar to my trajectory with Undaunted because I became a Christian

1:03:38 at 15 at the same time I'm trying to learn, okay, I'm trying to become a man, whatever

1:03:42 that means, but I need to become a Christian too, whatever that means.

1:03:45 And so you try to like weave your way through.

1:03:47 And so it eventually landed with me doing ministry stuff, a lot of heart and then, you

1:03:52 know, you know, doing Undaunted stuff today.

1:03:54 And so you're trying to be God honoring in your lyrics that you're writing while at

1:03:59 the same time, you're very early in your sanctification journey, your understanding of

1:04:04 the biblical text has to be at an office level because everyone's is when you first get started,

1:04:08 but you're fervent, you're hungry for it.

1:04:11 But then at the same time, so I'll couch it this way because whether I'm coaching someone

1:04:16 or just someone's asking me for advice, so I'll run into this person that's very successful

1:04:21 in business.

1:04:22 And then they have a movement of God in their life.

1:04:25 Maybe they go to something like saturated at Jobe's church in Florida or they see Matt

1:04:30 Chandler speak at a, you know, some sort of conference or they go to some worship night

1:04:35 concert and all that and they feel a movement of the spirit.

1:04:38 And then what a lot of these people end up doing is they think I have to burn all the

1:04:42 ships.

1:04:43 I have to get rid of my business.

1:04:44 I have to leave the job that I'm in.

1:04:46 I need to get a job at a church or I need to go back to Bible college and all of that.

1:04:50 And it's kind of a derivative of the poverty gospel to where they're like, I'm successful

1:04:54 in business and somehow that's probably bad.

1:04:56 I need, you know, I need a card with a church's logo on it and my name and the word pastor

1:05:03 underneath it.

1:05:04 And if I had that business card, then things will work out okay.

1:05:06 And I just try to tell these people I'm like, that might be what God's calling you to.

1:05:11 But ministry is also expensive.

1:05:13 And a lot of people, like how do you think Joseph of Aramathia was able to temporarily

1:05:17 donate a tomb to Jesus?

1:05:20 Because he was a man of means, right?

1:05:21 And he had that.

1:05:22 It was purchased or passed down to him by someone else that purchase it at some point.

1:05:26 And so you get these people that they're like, okay, when they feel that movement of God

1:05:29 in their life, when they're on that spiritual high, they feel like they have to do the most

1:05:32 Christian sounding things possible.

1:05:35 They're listening to air one and Caleb on repeat, even if they don't really like it.

1:05:39 There, they're, you know, listening to sermons, even if the guy's not really giving them meat

1:05:44 to chew on, it's just milk, they're just trying to do stuff like that.

1:05:47 It doesn't seem like that ever happened with you to where it's like, no, this world, this

1:05:52 world of death metal, that is only darkness by and for dark, you know, spirited people.

1:05:58 Yeah.

1:05:59 That's where I need to be.

1:06:00 And that's where I need to infuse some gospel.

1:06:03 I need to infuse some scripture into that world.

1:06:05 That's very interesting to me.

1:06:06 You know, I, I was very, I, I went in on Bible and I went in on like a mission, right?

1:06:17 It wasn't just kind of like this big, like, like, yeah, Christian, Caleb, Christian, Christian,

1:06:26 Christian, Christian.

1:06:27 No, it was like my mission was to make a heavy metal band for this scene, right?

1:06:31 And that like just drove me.

1:06:34 People don't even understand the scene, Brooke, like, if you weren't there, if you didn't

1:06:38 experience it, the, the power that that scene had over young people, the atheist agnostic

1:06:44 or Christian, it was so, because bro, I remember that's, that's where the foundations of my

1:06:50 faith came was from bands like yours to where I was like, for whatever reason, the hymns

1:06:55 and the CCM's not really agreeing with my palate.

1:06:57 It's something wrong with me.

1:06:59 And then I would listen to living sacrifice or, or extol or you know, early impending doom,

1:07:04 like that around that time period.

1:07:06 It's just like, anyway, so I just wanted to like, when people, when you say some people

1:07:10 just don't really understand what it almost gave you permission to be like, Oh, okay.

1:07:14 I'm okay.

1:07:15 For sure.

1:07:16 Absolutely.

1:07:17 I can listen to this and go.

1:07:19 I'm not broken.

1:07:20 I'm not broken.

1:07:21 Yeah.

1:07:22 And yeah, so that was always my mission.

1:07:25 And it was cool because I was getting good feedback from people, like even today, if

1:07:30 I ever like scroll, like our video is right.

1:07:34 And it's just like, this band helped me come to Jesus and it was like 1500 thumbs up.

1:07:39 Me too.

1:07:40 Me too.

1:07:41 Me too.

1:07:42 And I'm like, I mean, you never met those people.

1:07:43 You don't know those people.

1:07:44 Never in my life, dude.

1:07:45 And I'm like, and then you get some, you get some of the hey, like, Oh, this is not Christian.

1:07:48 You get something very, and I think these are pots.

1:07:51 Most of them.

1:07:52 But like, you know, not Christian, Christian, you get a couple of them, but then you get

1:07:56 those things, right?

1:07:57 Like, dude, listen to heavy metal forever.

1:08:02 Just started impending doom and going to go into church on Sunday.

1:08:07 And then you got like 150 likes on that, like me too, dude.

1:08:10 Oh, dude.

1:08:11 That was me last year.

1:08:12 That was me.

1:08:13 And it's just like, ah, it's so, it's so amazing.

1:08:18 And I think, and then like, even when we put our first EP, our first record with FaceDown,

1:08:25 it was then the before this, and then, and then 40 day came out with like their third

1:08:30 record and it beat it.

1:08:31 But at the, we had the most pre-sells for our, from a band that this guy was like, who's

1:08:36 going to listen to this crap to we, we are his number one band.

1:08:41 Right.

1:08:42 And that album was Serp.

1:08:43 No.

1:08:44 Nail did risen.

1:08:45 Yeah.

1:08:46 Yeah.

1:08:47 And then that was just like, Oh my gosh, like this, like, insanely sounding metal music.

1:08:54 One that the album artwork is super brutal and it was just so, like I listened to a couple

1:09:00 of them today.

1:09:01 Oh my gosh.

1:09:02 It's insane.

1:09:03 Um, but just, and I was just like, Oh, it sold some.

1:09:07 Oh, we're selling merch and like it just, it's really cool when you start a band and like,

1:09:11 oh, it's, if people are actually like thirsting for this or wanting to like, Oh my gosh,

1:09:17 thank God.

1:09:18 It just like, I'm so sick of this, you know, constantly having, you know, this being forced

1:09:24 down my throat.

1:09:25 That's being forced down my throat.

1:09:26 And it was cool because as that's kind of going on, my parents are actually becoming

1:09:30 more Christian and going to church and doing like today, like they're like, my dad's like

1:09:34 helping with like, um, call center, like suicide, like a Billy Graham call centers and my dad's

1:09:40 doing that.

1:09:41 Like, so like, it all, you know how it works, bro.

1:09:43 It's a circle, buddy.

1:09:44 A full circle.

1:09:45 My, my, my sisters go to church and all that stuff.

1:09:48 And it's just like super cool to see like, maybe I was a spark for them or whatever.

1:09:55 But it's so cool to see like my mom and dad, they're on a good path and they've been on

1:09:59 a good path for a while and, and, um, I don't know, it was just so, it was all these like

1:10:06 these positive feet, this, all this positive feedback, right, where like, dude, quit cold

1:10:11 turkey with drinking because, you know, just listening to this band.

1:10:14 I was just like, I could fight these, this battle.

1:10:17 Yeah.

1:10:18 And so I never, and I did, then the dude, the burn, I don't know if it's burn out.

1:10:22 I don't know if it just wasn't genuine faith.

1:10:24 I don't know, because you hear so, I mean, growing up, it was just like, dude, got burned

1:10:29 out on the church.

1:10:30 I got church, like the church, the church, the church thing.

1:10:33 I was like, dude, every church can become the, every church is full centers.

1:10:38 So there's a church in it, but the pastor can go do sleep around.

1:10:41 He can go do embezzled the money.

1:10:43 He can all the things that the people that it's like, he's not Jesus.

1:10:46 Yeah.

1:10:47 My, my, if you put your faith in your pastor, he might let you down.

1:10:50 Yeah.

1:10:51 He will let you down.

1:10:52 Yeah.

1:10:53 Or he could.

1:10:54 Um, very easily.

1:10:55 I mean, do you not know the heart of man?

1:10:56 Do you not know your own heart?

1:10:57 Like what I know I'm capable of is extremely nasty.

1:11:02 It's just like, it's so bad.

1:11:05 So I'm like, okay, God, like, use this passion for you, right?

1:11:09 Obviously.

1:11:10 Um, but like, I'm just like the whole, the whole thing could burn down.

1:11:15 And I'd be like, there's nothing that a Christian could do, a Christian person could do that

1:11:22 I would probably, you know, the person itself, I'd be like, you need to be excommunicado for

1:11:28 sure.

1:11:29 But my faith would not waver in the slightest.

1:11:33 My, my faith is not in man.

1:11:34 It's not in bands.

1:11:35 It's like when, you know, this person is falling down and it's like, Oh my gosh.

1:11:40 I put so much trust in this guy.

1:11:42 How could I ever trust anybody again?

1:11:44 How can I believe in your comment is the problem because of where you pointed your faith.

1:11:49 But we talked about, uh, we talked about Robbie Zacharias last night, um, at, at stag lounge,

1:11:54 and we were just like, okay, if you put your faith in the argumentation philosophy or presentation

1:12:00 of Robbie Zacharias and not in Christ, yes, whenever it became apparent or allegedly that

1:12:05 he was a tremendous sexual deviant before he passed away of cancer.

1:12:08 Right.

1:12:09 Yeah.

1:12:10 You're going to have an attack of faith, but I bro, I yell at people all the time.

1:12:13 I'm like, please do not put your faith in your favorite pastor, podcaster, politician,

1:12:18 athlete, influencer, because it's like, even if they're purporting to follow Christ, you

1:12:24 know, even if they're giving you some Bible, even if all those things, like, yes, there

1:12:27 would be some people that it would break my heart if they fail.

1:12:30 Tim Tebow.

1:12:31 Pastor.

1:12:32 Yeah.

1:12:33 Yeah.

1:12:34 Timmy, just hang on, baby.

1:12:35 Hang on until glory.

1:12:36 You're, you're, I mean, that guy is like as pure as it comes, bro.

1:12:39 Well, and so like, but let's, okay, let's use Tim, Tim as an example.

1:12:42 Yeah.

1:12:43 Let's say that at some point in his life, and obviously we're not assuming this will happen.

1:12:46 Right.

1:12:47 But let's say it's revealed that he has done or is engaging in heinous behavior of mankind.

1:12:51 Right.

1:12:52 Is that affect Christ?

1:12:54 Right.

1:12:55 Does that affect the presentation?

1:12:56 It affects the presentation, but it goes back to what I, it was either Frank Turk or

1:13:00 somebody, but it's like, if you walk into guitar center and somebody is playing sweet

1:13:04 child of mine badly, you don't blame slash for that.

1:13:07 Yeah.

1:13:08 If someone's out the piano playing Beethoven poorly, you don't blame Beethoven.

1:13:11 Yeah.

1:13:12 And so when you see a Christian doing Christianity poorly, you don't go, well, this Christ guy

1:13:16 must have been a real joke.

1:13:17 It's like, well, let's go back to the source material and see if, if what you're saying

1:13:21 comports with the truth, and you'll find out pretty quickly that it doesn't.

1:13:24 Exactly.

1:13:25 And that's, that's always been my thought process.

1:13:27 It's not about achieving, and the, and the, and the hardcore thing about it is, is like,

1:13:33 I know, I knew from the get go that I am not perfect.

1:13:37 And I am like, I am a wretched, I mean, most of my songs are I am a wretched center.

1:13:42 Yeah.

1:13:43 Wretched, wretched, wretched, like my everything, even my decent things that I do are filthy

1:13:47 rags.

1:13:48 Right.

1:13:49 So I am no good, like, yeah, I am no good.

1:13:54 So my whole process is like, I'm never going to be perfect.

1:13:58 I'm never going to be the guy that like is the role, like the, the perfect picture of

1:14:06 a Christian, like, oh, of Jesus, like I am going for that's why I strive for it.

1:14:11 But like, I'm never going to be that guy.

1:14:13 And I think a lot of people put their, like, I need to be perfect face on all the time.

1:14:18 Especially with social media, right, where you're like, everything has to be a highlight

1:14:21 reel.

1:14:22 Everything has to be this thing.

1:14:24 And so that's was just where I think a lot of people just get there, like, I'm never

1:14:28 going to be perfect.

1:14:29 And I screw up and I'm just becoming a hypocrite and I don't stop.

1:14:32 You want some inspiration?

1:14:33 So I was in Romans seven yesterday.

1:14:35 So this is, this is the guy.

1:14:37 This is the apostle Paul.

1:14:38 He wrote a huge, a huge chunk of the Bible, like this was a guy that was a terrorist murdering

1:14:43 Christians that became one of the biggest purveyors of the message of Christianity.

1:14:48 So Romans seven, verse 24, wretched man that I am who will deliver me from this body of

1:14:54 death.

1:14:55 That was a percent very next verse.

1:14:57 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ, our Lord.

1:15:00 So then I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh, I serve the law

1:15:04 of sin.

1:15:05 He's got the dichotomy of man right there.

1:15:08 And this is Paul.

1:15:09 That's literally impending.

1:15:10 Right, this is, this is literally chapter seven of a 16 chapter that we add a chapter

1:15:15 and verse later.

1:15:16 This is a long letter to the church in Rome where you have the guy, like the number one

1:15:22 draft pick, like Christian at this time, right, lamenting with the, you know, many exclamation

1:15:28 points are on the Bible, not that many.

1:15:29 There's one at the end of that wretched man that I am, right?

1:15:32 And so that is an indication, even back to the original Greek manuscripts and all that

1:15:35 about the emphatic nature of what he was saying.

1:15:38 And so, how do you think he was saying that?

1:15:41 Do you think he was saying it in a nice little chat?

1:15:43 It probably wasn't positive and safe for the whole family.

1:15:45 Positive, encouraging.

1:15:46 Okay.

1:15:47 Well, let's, let's even talk about that.

1:15:49 So like you think that he was saying it like, okay, so anyways, um, I'm a wretched man and

1:15:55 I'm just no good.

1:15:56 Yeah.

1:15:57 But you know what?

1:15:58 There are probably some minor chords whenever he was talking about that.

1:16:00 But no, like, so you're hitting on so much that, that I appreciate because kind of going

1:16:03 back to, okay, you're trying to bring more Bible into the music that you're writing, but

1:16:08 you're staying in the dark places.

1:16:09 And so, you know, the mission of Madonna life is equipping men to push back darkness.

1:16:12 So I tell people for whatever reason, God has wired me with an appetite for dark things,

1:16:19 right?

1:16:20 Yes.

1:16:21 To where, not to where I dabble in them myself, not to where I engage in them, but to where

1:16:25 I, I try to find them to root them out.

1:16:27 I try to see them because if I'm trying to equip men to push back darkness, but I encourage

1:16:31 you to plug your ears and cover your eyes, you will never experience the darkness and

1:16:35 you won't know when to push it back because you won't recognize that it's even there.

1:16:39 And I, and it's a, and it's not even really the people do, like, it's like they're, they

1:16:45 are being like, we said, like, they just don't know what they don't know.

1:16:48 And they're being influenced by whatever the case may be, some people are just not dark

1:16:54 and like they're meaning to be dark, but it's just obviously like, Oh, drinking.

1:16:58 And then like, I got, I got onto some sort of drug, right?

1:17:01 Like then they're just like, I didn't mean for this, my life to go this way.

1:17:05 And I just need someone maybe that has a little bit better influence that comes from a better

1:17:11 place spiritually or just physically and mentally to come, come alongside me and go, there's

1:17:18 another way, bro.

1:17:20 And I can, I can, I can help you or I can, you know, at least give you a resource or hold

1:17:27 your hand in this area, right?

1:17:28 So it's not necessarily like everything's like demon, demon, demon, it's just, it's just

1:17:33 some dudes are just in, um, in a bad situation and they need, and they, and they just need

1:17:39 someone to come alongside them and be like, dude, you know, with me and with a lot of

1:17:46 people that I know, it's been Jesus.

1:17:49 It's been just kind of like go to go find a good local church.

1:17:54 If I know that of an area, I can give someone a recommendation or whatever, right?

1:17:58 But like it's like, just try it out or, or, you nowadays, you can send them a sermon,

1:18:02 right?

1:18:03 Like what's your number?

1:18:04 Yeah, that's right.

1:18:05 You send them like a good little sermon like, Hey, bro, this is 30 minutes or 20 minutes

1:18:08 or 15 minutes.

1:18:09 Give it if, if your life's going down right now anyways, like might as well, right?

1:18:13 Give it a shot.

1:18:15 And so I think that a lot of it just has to do, it's very practical and sent in the sense

1:18:20 of like, we don't need to drum it up as like this huge thing, a lot of the times, sometimes

1:18:25 it is, but sometimes it's just like a dude just just kind of navigating life and it's

1:18:30 just kind of lost.

1:18:31 When I think a lot of people, they don't, they don't quite understand that, you know,

1:18:37 some people look at the Bible like it's, you know, it's got some rules for life, right?

1:18:41 Here's some things that you can do, but you know, I tell people all the time, especially

1:18:46 men that struggle with prayer, I'm like, bro, just open your Bible, just flip, flip, stop

1:18:50 somewhere around the middle.

1:18:51 You're probably going to land in a psalm.

1:18:53 Even if you're in a time of plenty and you land on a psalm lament, pray that psalm

1:18:57 lament out loud because as I talk about all the time, Psalm 23, the point of Psalm 23

1:19:01 is not that God delivers us from the valley of the shadow of death.

1:19:03 It's that when we're in it, which implies that we will be that God is there with us, right?

1:19:08 So we will have times of trouble, but he is, he is good to be there with us because he

1:19:15 is using the valley for something for you and ultimately for his own glory.

1:19:21 Yes.

1:19:22 But when you have these guys, I think everything in Christianity, like I, when people talk

1:19:27 about how, hey, bad things just shouldn't be happening to me.

1:19:29 I'm a Christian.

1:19:30 I'm like, bro, like tell me the happy ending for any of your favorite people in the Bible,

1:19:36 right?

1:19:37 Just the apostles, right?

1:19:38 Well, it all starts happening.

1:19:39 Once you turn against your fleshly ways, that's when all the bad things start happening.

1:19:44 Well, and, you know, I was trying to find the exact, the exact reference, but like when

1:19:47 Jesus goes to Lazarus's tomb, okay, obviously Mary and the other loved ones of Lazarus,

1:19:54 they're, they're frustrated with Jesus that he came four days late that had he been there

1:20:00 as Mary said, this is Mary Lazarus's sister had you been here.

1:20:04 My brother would not have died.

1:20:06 And he says, take me to the tomb and he goes to the tomb.

1:20:09 And whenever it said that, you know, Jesus wept and like you see those types of things,

1:20:14 what people miss is that the language that is used around his, his crying was to snort

1:20:20 with anger.

1:20:22 So Jesus, the son of God, right, part of the Godhead, right in his early thirties, right?

1:20:28 He goes to the tomb of what may have been his best friend or one of his good friends.

1:20:33 And he was weeping so violently that it was like he was snorting with anger.

1:20:39 Now, for any of you in, in your life, if you've ever been so angry, like he was angry at sin

1:20:46 and death.

1:20:47 And he knew what he was about to do, okay?

1:20:50 So this, this image of this, you know, puritanical, wispy hair Danish looking model Jesus guy that

1:20:58 was just going around, you know, holding lambs and kissing women on the tips of their noses

1:21:03 and saying how cute everyone looked in their tunics and like this idea that people get

1:21:06 of Jesus.

1:21:07 We don't have a plausibility structure for snorting with anger for clearing the temple,

1:21:12 not just once at the end of his ministry, but once at the beginning of his ministry after

1:21:16 his first, the first miracle that he did at the wedding in Kana, it's just like when you,

1:21:22 when you try to put this Jesus in a box, it's the same thing that when you try to put Christian

1:21:27 art in a box, it's got to feel this way, it's got to have this type of cord progression.

1:21:32 It's got to have the course 87 times, it's got to be sung at this key that most men can't

1:21:37 hit for whatever reason.

1:21:38 It can't be congregational because then it's not going to be much of a performance and you

1:21:41 start putting these restrictions on what can be Jesus or what can be a downstream of the

1:21:48 art of Jesus.

1:21:50 And I just go like when you're reading through the Psalms and you're reading through the

1:21:53 Psalms of lament, the Psalms of David, do you think he was just calmly presenting these

1:21:58 things?

1:21:59 No, there was an anger.

1:22:00 There was a guttural like outpouring of the soul that was coming out of these people.

1:22:06 And so that's why, you know, for us, like I'm trying to pull the pendulum back toward

1:22:10 the center a little bit because everything goes lamb of God, we ignore the line of Judah,

1:22:14 everything goes grace and we stay away from truth because it can be persnickety, it can

1:22:19 be a little bit hard to deal with.

1:22:21 But that's another reason, getting back to the music that y'all make, you've never had

1:22:25 any qualms about, hey, we're not trying to get on Caleb, we're not trying to get an invite

1:22:31 to NRB.

1:22:32 We're not trying to go to these places where it's going to be like the positive and easily

1:22:36 palatable things for the entire family.

1:22:39 It's like we're speaking to a different part of the Christian walk that the marketplace,

1:22:43 especially when you guys got started, it didn't have a place for Christian death metal and

1:22:50 look at the downstream gospel consequences of y'all being in use specifically being obedient

1:22:56 to God and saying yes, Lord, and these are the places that we will go because that death

1:23:00 metal kid that was listening to cannibal corpse and, you know, cattle decapitation and all

1:23:05 these different things, they listen to you guys.

1:23:08 And that's something the Holy Spirit used to either get them in a church to get them in

1:23:13 a Bible study to ask their uncle who is a Christian, what's this whole Jesus thing to

1:23:17 get a Bible and start reading it for the first time or changes their perspective, I think,

1:23:22 like it changes like, oh, this is just a death metal band, like you can just see it for what

1:23:26 it is, right?

1:23:27 Like it isn't like, I, this doesn't need to be your, your identity, right?

1:23:31 Like no metal band should be your identity.

1:23:34 But like metal music in general, like that's your identity, right?

1:23:38 If you listen to cannibal, I am of the old school nature, I am, you know, morbid angel,

1:23:44 cannibal corpse, you know, all the rest of them and like, and that's where I center my

1:23:48 thing around.

1:23:49 I'm not, and this is where they compartmentalize and it happens and the gatekeeping and metal

1:23:54 is like insane, right?

1:23:56 Like you have to hate sleep token if you like cannibal corpse, like you can't just go,

1:24:01 okay, sleep token is pretty cool.

1:24:03 And I also like cannibal corpse, like, like if you're in this thing, you can't say that.

1:24:07 And like, if you don't believe what I believe exactly, we can't be friends like, oh, you're

1:24:12 in this band, like, dude, there's a band called up so far, the Ricky Hoover is the singer.

1:24:17 Yeah, he's very got, he's got all the satanic lyrics and done.

1:24:22 He's like very non Christian, but man, I'm telling you, I love that guy so much.

1:24:26 And you know what, on paper, it should be like, you can't like each other.

1:24:30 You know, can't be friends.

1:24:31 How are you supposed to be selling light?

1:24:33 If you never, like, if you keep your, your light under a basket, you're the sweetest person.

1:24:38 Like, the dude is like, I think we don't even talk too much, but I think that I feel this

1:24:44 way about this guy that I don't like, he's my bro and he's just like, I probably bro,

1:24:48 I mean, he lives in Vegas and I live in Austin.

1:24:51 If I was, I honestly think if I was broke down in the middle, I'd like, dude, Ricky, can

1:24:56 you come out here, bro?

1:24:57 I'm in the panhandle of Texas.

1:24:59 I need you to come get me.

1:25:00 I think he would.

1:25:01 And I'm like, that's a good dude, man.

1:25:03 I mean, and I, and I, and I pray to be a good Christian influence on him and not be the guy

1:25:08 that goes, I, and I Christian.

1:25:12 Yeah.

1:25:13 I can't talk to you, Ricky.

1:25:14 Nah.

1:25:15 I don't do, I don't play like, just be, I don't play that game.

1:25:18 I'm not, I'm on the inside of this stuff.

1:25:21 And like, people want to play like the fantasy in their heads with like, it's our team versus

1:25:26 their team.

1:25:27 It's like, bro, that's not the, that's not the Christian way, right?

1:25:29 I get, we have boundaries and I get like, like, come on, obviously, but when it comes

1:25:36 to just like, hey, like, I'm not going to cast you out because you don't believe what

1:25:44 I believe in any politically, any of that stuff, right?

1:25:47 Like my whole thing is like, dude, I hope that one day you find the love of Jesus.

1:25:53 That's it.

1:25:54 Like I just hope it.

1:25:55 I hope that one day I'm the guy that kind of go like, Hey, Brooke, you know, or whatever,

1:26:00 like, thank you for not being that guy, right?

1:26:04 Never being that Christian guy, like that just like, I can't hang out with you because

1:26:09 you're.

1:26:10 So that's, I've always wanted to be like the me here between like, Hey man, I get where

1:26:15 you're at.

1:26:16 Totally.

1:26:17 That was a percent.

1:26:18 Like it is crazy.

1:26:19 Like the gospel, it's, it's, it's like, it's insane.

1:26:23 But it's just like to me, I'm, I, I just look on a, as a design element, right?

1:26:28 I can start from there and I'm like, dude, this is just too, I got to jump through a

1:26:33 lot of hoops to think that like, this is just some random act, right?

1:26:37 Like you, I, I personally really have to like, okay, that had to happen.

1:26:42 That had to happen.

1:26:43 That had to happen.

1:26:44 That had to happen.

1:26:45 There's a lot of mirror, mirror cools that had to take place for it to be like, Oh, we're

1:26:49 not on some, like say a life happened and we have, we're like, we're not some like alien

1:26:54 looking creatures that have no, we're just, we eat space rocks or whatever.

1:26:59 And we're just like parasites actually on like a planet, right?

1:27:03 So many people.

1:27:04 That's a, that would be awesome.

1:27:05 Like death, a lot of death that will be like, we are parasites on the planet.

1:27:08 Yeah.

1:27:09 We are killing the planet and all that stuff.

1:27:10 So, um, but actually like some beautiful people in the world, right?

1:27:15 And it's just like, we have the fruit that we just naturally get the oceans, the beautiful

1:27:21 places.

1:27:22 I'm like, very convenient that it ended up being beautiful.

1:27:25 Like the places that man doesn't touch.

1:27:27 Let's go there.

1:27:28 Beautiful.

1:27:29 Right.

1:27:30 And just so happens to be like, it's so happens to be that blue waters, warm waters, rivers,

1:27:40 lakes, like mountain tops, dude, like, Oh my gosh.

1:27:44 It's just the beauty.

1:27:45 It's just, it's insane to me.

1:27:46 And so I just, I come to that and I'm like, God is so good.

1:27:52 Like this is so cool that he allowed like us humans have our free will and we can jack

1:27:57 things up, but just the things that are untouched by man, the sky is sunset, sunrise, all that

1:28:02 stuff, man, you're just like, this is brilliant.

1:28:06 And to think that a, a painter wasn't involved in this is an architect, a designer, a mind,

1:28:14 a brain, a personal being.

1:28:17 It takes a lot for me to to get, but that's all, but it takes a, it takes a lot for me

1:28:22 to get like out of that frame of mind, but it takes a lot for people to get into that

1:28:27 frame of mind.

1:28:28 Right.

1:28:29 And I'm just like trying to be hopefully a light dude just hopefully like don't want

1:28:32 to come off as better.

1:28:33 I don't want to come off as a dude.

1:28:35 I hate what you believe.

1:28:36 That's totally 100% anyways, uh, you want to go get a, you know what I mean?

1:28:41 Like it just like, and then like, oh, he didn't, he didn't give me, he didn't give me

1:28:45 guff about it.

1:28:47 I, I talk crap.

1:28:48 And so as long as I'm doing music, dude, I just hope that I can be just, just a good

1:28:56 dude to these people, to anybody really, drug addict, never known this is like, it's life

1:29:03 is too short, bro, to compartmentalize every single person to give everyone a name tag

1:29:10 and, uh, and an identity and go, okay, I don't associate with you.

1:29:14 It's too short.

1:29:16 It's so short, man.

1:29:17 And it's just like, I just, as, as we were talking about earlier, like the, when I say

1:29:21 things now, I'm like 25 years ago, I'm like, I wasn't four 25 years ago.

1:29:28 I was actually an adult 20 years ago.

1:29:31 Well, not quite.

1:29:32 Yeah.

1:29:33 Yeah.

1:29:34 20 years ago.

1:29:35 Right.

1:29:36 Yeah.

1:29:37 So, but now I'm, I'm, I'm measuring things before I'd be like, Oh yeah, we did that two

1:29:43 years ago, three years ago.

1:29:46 Now I'm saying 20.

1:29:47 And it's just like, okay, let's get, let's get the bigger picture here.

1:29:52 And let's like really before you go bring as many people into the kingdom of the kingdom

1:30:00 as you possibly can.

1:30:02 And right now I'm going to use that with, with, with heavy music.

1:30:06 And I think a lot of people are very, are turning our, are kind of like, this is a good

1:30:12 time right now, because people I think are, are more than ever going.

1:30:16 The AI thing, the, the wars thing, the, the political atmosphere.

1:30:22 It's just like, uh, uh, it's all yucky, dude.

1:30:25 And it's just like, I need to turn to something and then right now the, the harvest, the harvest.

1:30:31 Yeah.

1:30:32 Yeah.

1:30:33 The harvest is plenty.

1:30:34 Yeah.

1:30:35 People are just ready to hear like the gospel.

1:30:39 And in a way that's like real and not milk and not sugar-coated because I think everything

1:30:45 is sugar-coated these days.

1:30:48 And so yeah, I want to hopefully, you know, I do it in a way that like is glorifying God

1:30:56 and is a way that's helping people, you know, because there is the duality of man, right?

1:31:01 I want, because I am very brandished, dude, like when, when I get in, like, when I used

1:31:06 to, when I get in like the, the arguments with my friends, right, I'm like, I don't

1:31:10 hold back.

1:31:11 I'm not like, but I also want to, now these days, I'm just kind of like, bro, it's literally,

1:31:19 you can't put your faith in, in politicians, like we said, like, you can't, they will,

1:31:25 like, especially a politician, like, you can't, dude, they will let you down.

1:31:31 They will say the things and they will yank the rug right underneath you and do a totally

1:31:37 different thing.

1:31:38 And it's just like, what the heck?

1:31:40 This is not what I, and then it's just like, and then you're just in the dumps, right?

1:31:43 And you're wasting your life on someone that's like, they're just going, they're just in

1:31:49 this state for their own gain.

1:31:51 That's all it is.

1:31:53 And it's just like, this is just one big circus.

1:31:55 And it's just like, okay.

1:31:57 Like, I noticed that there's a, this, this elite class or whatever is just out for themselves

1:32:05 and it's just greedy money grab or it's just greedy kind of power grab.

1:32:09 I need to go to like the ultimate source of power, the ultimate source of freedom, the

1:32:12 ultimate.

1:32:13 And you need to reclaim like your peace and your joy back, dude, because if you get sucked

1:32:18 into the social media and those, all this realm and even music, you know, some of this

1:32:23 music, if you get sucked into all of this, man, it can deteriorate your insides.

1:32:28 And so I just want to go, I just want to make it a bold statement to say like, I'm telling

1:32:35 you, listen to the sermon.

1:32:37 Ask me, right?

1:32:39 Ask you, like what I do to never been, never listened to anything Christian before in my

1:32:43 life.

1:32:44 Can you point me to something that will kind of help me kind of give me a better understanding

1:32:49 of what y'all believe, kind of give me this and this.

1:32:51 I will send you anything I can just like fit your personality, right?

1:32:57 And I think you would to help out anybody and a bunch of Christians probably would.

1:33:02 They're like, that's like our main goal.

1:33:04 So yeah, I know they got Jesus came with a two-edged sword and we need to cut through

1:33:10 all the crap, but there's like, there is obviously like insanity on like the, the both ends and

1:33:16 it's just like, bro, no matter what you do, no matter what you say, you're, you're, you're

1:33:21 just talking to people that don't care.

1:33:23 But there are a lot of people and you'll know right away, like, let me know, like, I never

1:33:29 was a Christian, but I'm willing to listen to something.

1:33:33 I'm willing to, and there are a lot of people like that, dude.

1:33:37 Like we like to compartmentalize like you're either on the crazy left or the crazy right,

1:33:41 but there are a ton of people that like I've just, it might, I'm like, oh, like I'm surprised.

1:33:47 I'm like, oh, you, you want to sure.

1:33:53 And so I'm just kind of more in that, in the space of wanting to just be a loving mediator,

1:34:04 man between man and Jesus, you know, you know, Jesus was the ultimate mediator, but I'm just

1:34:09 trying to get, I'm the little, the little tiny mediator trying to get to the bigger,

1:34:13 you know, the bigger picture here.

1:34:15 So I just want to be the guy that does that.

1:34:17 I hope that as I go older and it's just like, I can be that dude that just sitting or, you

1:34:22 know, that's just constantly putting in work until I die for the right reasons and for

1:34:27 the like, and no judgment, no nothing, just like, dude, you're, you're completely against

1:34:34 what everything I believe in every sort of sphere could care less, like, whoa, like tell

1:34:42 me your story.

1:34:43 Like, honestly, tell me, because I like it, you know, I like it like, dude, is it crazy?

1:34:48 The crazier, the better, if it's boring, it's kind of like, okay, like, you know, but like,

1:34:54 I like, like, dude, I like, like, even my band members, when I go to like some like crazy,

1:35:00 like, meth town, Missouri or whatever, and then the guy will come up to me.

1:35:06 And he's just on one.

1:35:08 And I'm like, they make fun of me because they're like, I could, like, I can go down

1:35:14 to their level.

1:35:16 And they're like, that's like a, like, I'm sober, but I can, like, I'm not on meth level.

1:35:23 And then just, they always videotape me like talking to dudes.

1:35:27 And it's just, I just like, man, how'd you get here?

1:35:31 What are you doing?

1:35:32 You know, like, you just, you just took a hit before you just came to the show.

1:35:37 And just rip in one and, you know, just get a laugh or whatever and just say, so what's

1:35:42 up, dude?

1:35:43 And they'll, and they'll, and most people are honest, dude.

1:35:45 Like, I've had Satanists come up to me, love your band, dude.

1:35:50 Love it.

1:35:51 I love what you do.

1:35:52 I love that you're bold.

1:35:53 I'm like, cool, man.

1:35:54 He's like, I'm going to pull out a little, like, I'm the Satanist.

1:35:57 And I'm like, okay, what else are you?

1:36:02 You know, tell me more about yourself.

1:36:04 Where you from?

1:36:05 Well, and then, you know, you have a little conversation.

1:36:08 What happened?

1:36:09 How'd you get to, how'd you get to this point?

1:36:11 We talk.

1:36:13 And I've done that with so many people, because I go to the merch table.

1:36:17 If I can, my voice will allow me, I'll go to the merch table after the show.

1:36:23 And I'll talk to kids, I'll talk to whoever for as long as that, you know, I usually get

1:36:27 to the last person and, you know, it takes, you know, an hour or two after the show.

1:36:32 Well, that's the time, sometimes it's a little show, then it's, it's a little weird, but

1:36:37 it's not for a long time.

1:36:39 And it really give them a hug, even if it's something so simple, even if it's just something

1:36:43 they wanted to tell me, right?

1:36:45 Like, you know, when you actually get to tell the person, like how you've said things

1:36:49 about people that you've met, you've talked and you've got to tell them the thing, right?

1:36:55 Even if it's like, I loved your band since I was 12.

1:36:57 And it's just like, it feels good to get that out.

1:37:00 Like, like I'm giving them flowers, like it's, you're, you're giving like a little bit of

1:37:04 a blessing, right?

1:37:05 Like, keep going.

1:37:06 It's like saying, keep going, dude.

1:37:07 I loved you.

1:37:08 Keep going.

1:37:09 Keep doing what you do.

1:37:10 And you've made an impact in my life.

1:37:11 You're probably making an impact in more people's lives.

1:37:14 And it's just cool.

1:37:15 It's so cool.

1:37:16 And I hope that like, I don't just become like this, like this, I just don't want to become

1:37:22 like a bidder.

1:37:23 I don't want to like, you know how many there's like rock stars, right?

1:37:26 I'm not saying I'm a rock star, but I'm saying like the attitude of a rock, even people that

1:37:30 have like no following or anything of any sort.

1:37:33 I have these rock star personalities and, and I was like, I never want, I always want

1:37:38 to try to come off as just a genuine dude that wants to, you know, do good for my brothers

1:37:48 and sisters, you know, and if, you know, there, I mean, there's so many basic things

1:37:52 that like I tell people about Jesus, basic dude, where I'm like, I feel so cheesy for

1:37:56 saying this.

1:37:57 And they're like.

1:37:58 Mind blowing.

1:37:59 And I'm like, Oh, I forget you're not even in this world.

1:38:04 You're not even in my, if I say like the most basic thing, even like, dude, Jesus forgive

1:38:09 your sins, man.

1:38:11 You know, they're like, no, I'm imperfect.

1:38:15 Jesus only wants perfect people.

1:38:17 Like that's their thought.

1:38:18 Jesus wants perfect people.

1:38:19 I'm like, you don't know who you're talking to because if you did, you'd be like, you

1:38:26 think you're, you know, you'd be judging me.

1:38:29 You'd be like, do you think you're going to heaven, bro?

1:38:31 You know, I'm like, dude, without Jesus, I wouldn't, you know what I mean?

1:38:36 Like, if I, if I'm my own savior, and if you want to be your own savior, it just, it,

1:38:44 it's rough.

1:38:45 It's a rough life.

1:38:46 So anyways, that's a whole lot of stuff there, dude, but that's just, that's just my heart

1:38:52 these days, 39 years old, which is like, I don't want to be cool.

1:38:57 I don't want to be no, I don't want to be like all day.

1:39:02 I don't want, you know, but I also want to get the word out.

1:39:05 So I'm like, okay, I got to be a little better about that.

1:39:08 Um, but I'm pretty to myself, pretty introverted guy, but I have some priorities in my life.

1:39:17 And so that that's one of them is like, if I'm going to do this thing, I want to do

1:39:21 it to the glory of God until I die.

1:39:25 And then I hope every, it's my name and it's just over and it is what it is.

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1:41:44 So several things that you were talking about there.

1:41:48 You kind of have a servants mindset, but it's not how people typically think of servants

1:41:52 because typically we think of servant as a person that is quietly taking care of the

1:41:56 coffee station at church or, you know, doing the taking out the garbage, you know, at the

1:42:00 church or they're the one going to the old folks home and not telling anybody.

1:42:04 But you've, you've had some interesting opportunities to serve some of the people in these bands

1:42:10 that you've been on tour with.

1:42:12 And again, these are people, if you look at their lyrics or look at their presentation,

1:42:16 very dark, demonic, like horrible.

1:42:18 And so it was funny last night because I remember because I was like, wait a minute, like,

1:42:22 have I ever seen y'all live because I felt like I missed a bunch of y'all's tours just

1:42:26 because of where I was.

1:42:27 But I was in Tulsa.

1:42:28 I don't know what year this would have been, but y'all were touring with impending doom.

1:42:32 So I think impending doom was the headliner or if it wasn't them, you thought it may have

1:42:37 been bleeding through your thing.

1:42:38 No, you're taking your thing.

1:42:39 Oh, who did I say?

1:42:40 You said an impending doom.

1:42:41 Okay.

1:42:42 That's your band.

1:42:43 Duh, of course, impending doom.

1:42:44 Your band was all into her with a case of strain.

1:42:45 I was trying to remember Vincent's name and then I said y'all's band name.

1:42:49 And so either a case of strain was a headliner, but we maybe it was bleeding through.

1:42:53 I don't know.

1:42:54 I think it was bleeding through.

1:42:55 Okay.

1:42:56 It was something like that.

1:42:57 I'm mixing up some, some shows that were up there.

1:42:59 And I think this is down the street from Kane's ballroom.

1:43:01 It was at a smaller, a smaller venue or something like that up until anyway.

1:43:05 So I'm so pumped for you guys and y'all have this bus string set and then I'm super pumped

1:43:12 for a case of strain because this was like, right, this may have been the dead walk or

1:43:16 continent.

1:43:17 I can't remember what, what album this would have been.

1:43:19 But then basically Vincent gets up on stage and he can't even talk, but you filled in

1:43:26 for an acacia strain set.

1:43:28 And so here you are as a Christian, right?

1:43:30 And if you look at the impending doom lyrics, the, the lyrics are a little difficult and

1:43:35 all that and acacia strain lyrics are on a different level, very dark, very, they got

1:43:41 some mean stuff.

1:43:42 They got some really, really angry evil stuff.

1:43:45 And yet you came up and you did most of the vocals.

1:43:49 Now when there were things like, you know, when they said Jesus F in Christ, you know,

1:43:54 bad words, you know, things that would colloquially be considered bad words, you would just hold

1:43:58 the mic down and then you would get back into the song.

1:44:01 But I never heard the story behind how that even happened, but you told to me last night.

1:44:05 So I feel like we got a, we got to bring it to the audience because it was like, it was

1:44:08 so random.

1:44:09 They have you do their entire set and I'm like, how did it even know those songs?

1:44:13 But it's a pretty cool.

1:44:14 Well, I mean, yeah, we're on tour with them and then at about nine a.m.

1:44:21 I'm sleeping in the, in the van and I get a text from Vincent saying, how many acacia

1:44:27 strain songs do you know?

1:44:30 And I'm like, very leading question.

1:44:31 Yeah.

1:44:32 And I'm like, you know, the bad parts of six songs, you know, you know, the things that,

1:44:37 you know, the parts I know that most people know, right?

1:44:41 And I think he said, I think it was laryngitis.

1:44:45 I think I don't know.

1:44:47 He couldn't do anything.

1:44:48 So he's like, I need you to sing these songs.

1:44:51 And I'm like, he's just so he's good, dude.

1:44:54 Like he's good.

1:44:55 Like me and I'm like, you know, and I'm, I'm obviously hesitant with it because I'm like,

1:45:01 right?

1:45:02 You know, it's, it's not even like the lyrical content because I can obviously put the mic

1:45:06 down on things.

1:45:07 I'm like, but it was just like, dude, like you're a very respect in a very respected band.

1:45:13 And I'm just like me.

1:45:15 And so anyways, he was like, you know, you don't get paid if you don't play.

1:45:20 So they obviously need to get the, the, their guarantees.

1:45:23 And I don't know how many shows we'd, I did, um, you know, did the best I could.

1:45:30 And uh, but I was telling the guitar player DL, which is like at the time, if you know

1:45:35 DL and you know, his strain, you know, Vincent, you know, DL, right?

1:45:39 And he's the mean looking guitar player.

1:45:41 Paul, then you have the grill, uh, for a while.

1:45:44 I think you're on the chain.

1:45:45 Yeah.

1:45:46 Yeah.

1:45:47 Yeah.

1:45:48 He's like that guy, right?

1:45:49 Yeah.

1:45:50 The bandana.

1:45:51 And this was a super nice guy.

1:45:52 Uh, and I was like, DL, I think we need to like help, you know, help me help you.

1:45:58 Let's do like six songs.

1:45:59 And he's like, don't be a wuss.

1:46:02 We're doing 12.

1:46:03 I don't know.

1:46:04 I was like, dude, I really don't and, uh, eventually, and then we, we did it.

1:46:12 But the thing with it, with like, um, the thing with a case is they're so fun.

1:46:19 Like they're heavy, right?

1:46:20 And they're bouncy and they're heavy.

1:46:22 Like they're not like there's not a lot of filler in a case of strange song.

1:46:26 So like even the things that don't know, and it's probably throwing them off because I

1:46:30 was just kind of throwing stuff in there, but it was just like it's like the people were

1:46:36 seeming to have fun.

1:46:37 Yeah.

1:46:38 You know what I mean?

1:46:39 Um, and, uh, I was just kind of, and then it was just funny because the parts that I actually

1:46:44 like, oh, I could hit this part.

1:46:45 I'm like, but it's like the worst lyric, right?

1:46:49 Yeah.

1:46:50 And, um, but, uh, I was just happy to, to help them.

1:46:54 And it was, it was, it was a fun experience.

1:46:58 I think it happened again in, uh, in Europe.

1:47:03 Yeah.

1:47:04 I mean, a bunch of runs with them.

1:47:06 We did a bunch of runs with them, but I think, I think Phil from chapel, cause they, chapel

1:47:10 was headlining.

1:47:11 And I think Phil from chapel stepped in, rushed, but, um, but it was just fun.

1:47:20 To help.

1:47:21 And they're, they're my friends.

1:47:22 Super cool.

1:47:23 Dude.

1:47:24 I mean, that, that there, it's a different band besides Vincent now, but back then, those

1:47:28 were all my buddies.

1:47:29 Dude, they were super cool dudes.

1:47:32 So I was happy to help, but it was just a, it was just so funny that it was that band.

1:47:36 Well, it's like whenever you have all the stars aligned for these random cameo appearances

1:47:41 of other people in established bands, we were talking about last night, I forget what the

1:47:44 circumstances were, but like, I forget where the show even was, but Metallica was doing

1:47:49 an arena show and Lars was like really sick or had to go to the hospital or something

1:47:54 like that.

1:47:55 And then Jordi, the, the drummer from Slipknot came in and did the Metallica set.

1:48:02 And cause, I mean, this is like day of, and I don't even know, it was probably one of

1:48:07 those random things where depending upon met, where Metallica was, they had a different big

1:48:11 headliner.

1:48:12 And I mean, there's not very many bands that can play after Slipknot.

1:48:16 That's how big slipknot is.

1:48:18 But obviously Metallica is, is like the tippy top of the metal hierarchy.

1:48:24 But like hearing Metallica with Jordan's, cause I think it's his kid, I don't think he played

1:48:30 Lars's kid.

1:48:31 This would have been his slipknot kid.

1:48:32 The video that I'm seeing in my head, yeah, he had a lot of cymbals and a lot of that.

1:48:36 Right.

1:48:37 And then Lars, and Lars is like, his high hats up in his toms are like, like right in his

1:48:40 lap almost.

1:48:42 And so I'm pretty sure that it was Jordan's, I think I'm pretty sure it was his set.

1:48:47 But like hearing master of puppets and ride the lightning and all those things with him

1:48:52 and the drums.

1:48:53 And it's perfect form.

1:48:54 Oh my gosh.

1:48:55 Dude.

1:48:56 Yeah.

1:48:57 No, I was nowhere near that perfect.

1:48:58 But like, yeah, I was just there to help, but do the Joey Jordan's in with yeah.

1:49:05 Yeah.

1:49:06 Yeah.

1:49:07 Yeah.

1:49:08 Yeah.

1:49:09 Yeah.

1:49:10 Yeah.

1:49:11 Yeah.

1:49:12 He, I mean, it's just so crazy what drums do to a band, dude.

1:49:13 I mean, it just.

1:49:14 Why?

1:49:15 It was the backbone of the band.

1:49:16 Or the drummer for August Burns Red is a buddy of mine.

1:49:20 I asked him.

1:49:21 I think the last time I came on the show, I was like, if there's one band.

1:49:25 So let's say August Burns Red just didn't exist anymore.

1:49:28 But there's one band that if you got the call, and I think I told him it could be any band

1:49:31 from history.

1:49:32 I forget how I like set it up.

1:49:34 And it was like where you could be the drummer, whether it's for a night or a tour, like you're

1:49:38 there a new drummer.

1:49:39 And he straight up said Metallica and I'm like, dude, did you really?

1:49:42 He said Metallica.

1:49:43 I thought to myself, I'm like, if Matt Griner was the drummer for Metallica, like if Lars

1:49:48 Ulrich just retired or, you know, he just done the music or whatever, like, can you imagine

1:49:53 those songs with Matt Griner's drumming?

1:49:56 The faster stuff would be awesome.

1:49:58 Yeah.

1:49:59 I think I think he can be simply because on those simple parts of Metallica, I think they

1:50:04 hit hard on it.

1:50:05 I just wouldn't want Griner to just.

1:50:07 He's not going to blast beat a simple part.

1:50:08 He's not going to blast beat unforgiven, but like, which would be funny just to hear.

1:50:13 But like, I was telling you last night, so August Burns Red did a cover of Chop Suey

1:50:16 by System of a Down.

1:50:17 And so if you go and listen to that song, the musicianship isn't like out of this world,

1:50:22 like in a sense, the drums aren't like insanely technical or anything like that.

1:50:26 The song just fits.

1:50:27 It's just kind of like perfect.

1:50:29 Like the entire band kind of came together and made this perfect song for their sound.

1:50:33 But when you listen to the August Burns Red cover, the, because that's, again, that's

1:50:37 not a super fast, super technical drumming song, but the stuff that he did on their cover

1:50:42 of it wasn't sane.

1:50:43 I'm sure it's amazing.

1:50:44 And so like, and if you ever saw Matt Griner's thing that he did with Zilgen, he did like

1:50:48 this Zilgen thing on YouTube or whatever, had some super jazzy elements.

1:50:52 It wasn't just like super fast.

1:50:54 Well, that's why I'm surprised he said, that's why I was surprised he said Metallica because

1:50:57 I'm like, I don't, I don't, where would you put him?

1:51:00 Like where else?

1:51:01 I just don't know.

1:51:02 I just can't see Griner listening to, I don't even think Griner listens to metal.

1:51:06 He does.

1:51:07 He does.

1:51:08 He, he personifies angry music for happy people because that dude is just like a farmer and

1:51:12 family man.

1:51:13 He's got like a second kid now.

1:51:14 But like, he listens to metal.

1:51:15 Yeah.

1:51:16 He loves it.

1:51:17 Like, I mean, obviously, how could you write what he writes?

1:51:19 Because that band writes, like they're writing, he is just so in his own world that like he's

1:51:26 just kind of like not, and it just seems like he's not influenced by maybe drummers for

1:51:30 sure.

1:51:31 But I just can't see like bands that he would be influenced by.

1:51:35 He's legit.

1:51:36 He's into it.

1:51:37 Cause that's part of the thing is like, if you're going to be a drummer and a metal core band,

1:51:41 he's not very many genres you can listen to to get like, you're not going to listen

1:51:44 to Alice and chains to get, you know, your, no, I don't see your influence or see him

1:51:49 listen.

1:51:50 Wow.

1:51:51 It's so weird.

1:51:52 Like we could just ask him.

1:51:53 I could call him right now and we'll see like, Hey, kind of what bands you listen to, but

1:51:55 he probably wouldn't answer.

1:51:56 So that would just make a big hole in the show.

1:51:58 But like, yeah, I just over it.

1:51:59 Yeah.

1:52:00 Yeah.

1:52:01 But there are people that are like that though.

1:52:02 Like, Oh, I don't listen to any of that.

1:52:03 And but how are you so good?

1:52:05 And it's just like, like who?

1:52:07 Um, no, I've, I've seen that with a lot of people that don't listen to metal that are

1:52:13 in metal bands that are in metal bands.

1:52:15 Yeah.

1:52:16 Yeah.

1:52:17 Most metal bands don't like they'll have their, their spots, but they, they're, they're

1:52:21 little pockets of it, but it's mostly like other things for sure.

1:52:25 It'd be hard to get like, I would figure it'd be hard to write that music if you're not

1:52:31 like, because you're not in like this thing is, is like, yeah, you want the overall feel

1:52:36 of like, okay, I really liked the sound of, you know, the feeling of like a cannibal corpse

1:52:42 is very like dark and morose and like fast.

1:52:44 And then like, you kind of listen to those records, but then you just kind of go and do

1:52:48 your, you know, like, man, I'm, I'm drawing blanks right now, but well, shoot, I just

1:52:54 said the wrong name for the slipknot drummer and I'm, oh, that people are going to love

1:52:57 that in the comments section.

1:52:58 Uh, you know, whenever you switch up stuff, I call them Jordi.

1:53:00 It's like, what is that name?

1:53:02 Oh, I've had, I've said some things into this specific microphone that I'm like, oop,

1:53:06 I can't get that one back.

1:53:07 And we're not going to edit it out either.

1:53:09 No, no, no, that's perfect.

1:53:10 It's fine.

1:53:11 It's, dude, no one can be a 100 all, you know, 100% of the time.

1:53:15 Sure.

1:53:16 So there's, that's people's names, right?

1:53:17 But, um, yeah, no, I'm drawing blanks on it, but like metal guys that watch this, they'll

1:53:22 be like, yeah, like, yeah, I do.

1:53:26 But then I listen to the, there's like a, there's like a very, like people think I just listened

1:53:30 to nothing but metal and I'm like, dude, I listened to the country, like, all right.

1:53:33 So speaking of which, we should probably get into the stuff where you and I disagree, like

1:53:37 on the bands or whatever.

1:53:38 And so maybe the best way to do that is because I listened to country too, but I had a long

1:53:43 stretch where I hated country because I thought radio country was the only country there was.

1:53:47 And so now like as an adult, like as a good American, as a good Oklahoma and I'm going

1:53:51 back and listening to it.

1:53:52 So if you had to give me your country music, Mount Rushmore, okay.

1:53:58 So for artists or country acts, like who are we going with?

1:54:03 And as you're saying that, I probably need the like, I'm going to get myself a patent

1:54:06 pin so I can work on my own list.

1:54:07 But what's your, what's your, I mean, I love cash as whole.

1:54:13 I love cash as whole story, right?

1:54:15 I love.

1:54:16 Good.

1:54:17 Who's a buddy of mine in the country music?

1:54:18 He doesn't even like Johnny Casho.

1:54:19 Shame on you, Drew Parker.

1:54:20 If you're out here listening to this, I don't even know how you can be in country music

1:54:23 and not like Johnny Cash.

1:54:24 And that's my problem with these people is like, people don't even consider him country

1:54:27 because that's what he's, he's on the folk side and all that.

1:54:30 But like he was almost like pre country and Western, but like he's, he's, he's in the

1:54:34 genre.

1:54:35 Johnny Cash?

1:54:36 I know.

1:54:37 I know.

1:54:38 Cause there are people that don't know where to put him genre wise, right?

1:54:40 Cause we've talked about how our genres are, but you and I are on the same page.

1:54:42 Okay.

1:54:43 Don't be looking on my.

1:54:44 Okay.

1:54:45 I got cash.

1:54:46 I got whalen.

1:54:47 Okay.

1:54:48 Whalen.

1:54:49 Um, hang junior.

1:54:52 And then I'm going to get someone new or ish Florida Georgia line.

1:54:59 Did I nail it?

1:55:02 Did I nail it?

1:55:05 Oh my gosh, I think it'd be your honorable mental.

1:55:11 Probably culture.

1:55:12 Okay.

1:55:13 Culture wall.

1:55:14 All right.

1:55:15 Shout out dude.

1:55:16 Shout out.

1:55:17 Yeah.

1:55:18 Probably culture, bro.

1:55:19 I'm struggling with my last one here.

1:55:21 Um, I'll just do it on the fly.

1:55:22 Okay.

1:55:23 So I got Johnny Cash, um, my most underrated country music artist of all time.

1:55:29 I got to say Ventskill, um, man, cause it feels like it's a deep cut, but it shouldn't

1:55:35 be cause he's like a legend, but at the same time, like he, it was, ah, gosh, I'm trying

1:55:44 to do the chorus on it was like he doesn't do like the rain and there's a, is there a

1:55:49 rain song that he does?

1:55:50 Well, I mean, Garth Brooks got a rain song, Jackson's got a rain song.

1:55:53 So his rain, it'll like the rain I've been calling for you.

1:55:58 Who sings that one?

1:55:59 I don't know.

1:56:00 That doesn't sound familiar.

1:56:01 Oh, but okay.

1:56:02 Okay.

1:56:03 Okay.

1:56:04 Ventskill.

1:56:05 Okay.

1:56:06 Sorry.

1:56:07 Yeah.

1:56:08 So Johnny Cash Ventskill, my new one, because I think when he's all said and done, his catalog

1:56:12 is going to be so preposterous and his level of talent is so unbelievable.

1:56:16 First Stapleton, I mean, he's the owner of the best national anthem in the history of

1:56:21 national anthems.

1:56:22 That's true.

1:56:23 When he did the Super Bowl national anthem and some of his stuff, when he goes kind of

1:56:26 into the 70s, kind of like disco stuff, like he did something with Miranda Lambert here

1:56:30 recently, I wasn't a huge fan of that.

1:56:32 But when he does kind of like the outlaw, more style, more dingy, more grimy, and his

1:56:38 voice is just preposterous, I just don't think it's cattle.

1:56:41 He doesn't have a big enough catalog.

1:56:42 How many records is this guy?

1:56:44 That's what I said.

1:56:45 I said what time he's said and done.

1:56:46 I think he's going to be.

1:56:47 Bro, I think he's done.

1:56:48 Are you not done?

1:56:49 Yeah, bro.

1:56:50 I saw it.

1:56:51 I saw Paul.

1:56:52 I guess where he was like, I'm going to he's thinking about hanging it up.

1:56:55 No, I don't.

1:56:56 Okay.

1:56:57 Well, believe it with I see it, but I'm keeping them on the list.

1:56:58 Okay.

1:56:59 This last one.

1:57:00 That's where it gets us with.

1:57:02 So, I mean, I got I'm thinking Alan Jackson.

1:57:05 I'm thinking Brooks and done.

1:57:06 Yeah.

1:57:07 Jacks on my list.

1:57:08 Yeah.

1:57:09 Toby Keith Garth Brooks.

1:57:10 Everyone says George Strait.

1:57:11 I want to go Toby Keith.

1:57:12 Yeah.

1:57:13 Hey, shut your stupid whore mouth.

1:57:14 Drew his town on your way to get here.

1:57:17 What is wrong with you?

1:57:18 Show some respect.

1:57:19 Okay.

1:57:20 Repent.

1:57:21 Repent.

1:57:22 Take it back.

1:57:23 I forgot what country I've got.

1:57:24 Lee, you want to talk about an entire state being sad at the same time?

1:57:27 Yeah, dude, I'm going to start hitting the table.

1:57:29 No, seriously, when he died, it was like the whole state was sad.

1:57:33 No, I get it.

1:57:34 Okay.

1:57:35 But I'm just talking Rushmore.

1:57:36 Toby Keith is on that.

1:57:37 I just said I'm considering I'm throwing some out there that are part of consideration.

1:57:43 I like that you're in the 90s because I'm in 90s.

1:57:44 Yeah.

1:57:45 I am in 90s.

1:57:46 I got cash, which is old.

1:57:47 I got Chris Hamilton.

1:57:48 That's new.

1:57:49 I got Vince Gill, who bridged some some gaps, you know, for modern guys like Cody Johnson

1:57:54 is just incredible.

1:57:55 I think that you guys are big.

1:57:57 Cody guys.

1:57:58 Dude, he where you want to talk about guys that can just flat out sing.

1:58:02 Yeah.

1:58:03 Cody's great.

1:58:04 Dude has some some pipes on him.

1:58:05 You know what?

1:58:06 I'm going to go.

1:58:07 I'm going to go.

1:58:08 But you know what?

1:58:09 We haven't mentioned any.

1:58:10 Okay.

1:58:11 You know what?

1:58:12 You know what?

1:58:13 On the bluegrass side, but we haven't given a lady their love yet.

1:58:16 And so you might think I'm going to say Reba.

1:58:17 No, no, I know what you're going to say.

1:58:19 Don't tell me.

1:58:20 It's the girl that does it with them.

1:58:21 It's the girl that does whiskey lullaby.

1:58:24 Allison Krauss.

1:58:25 Allison Krauss.

1:58:26 She is my favorite female vocalist of all time.

1:58:29 But now she is more on the bluegrass side.

1:58:31 She did some cool stuff with Robert Plant whenever she did their thing.

1:58:35 Yeah.

1:58:36 So that's going to be my Mount Rushmore.

1:58:37 Wow.

1:58:38 So which one don't my I guess you hate Chris Stapleton the most on my Mount Rushmore.

1:58:41 Yeah.

1:58:42 I just don't think yeah.

1:58:43 I can't argue.

1:58:44 It's great.

1:58:45 But I just don't think on a rushmore.

1:58:46 I think you need to go.

1:58:47 There needs to be.

1:58:48 I think the Jackson.

1:58:49 Yeah.

1:58:50 So I'm yeah.

1:58:51 Allen Jackson for sure.

1:58:52 Yeah.

1:58:53 Stapleton for me is great, but I just don't think his catalog is there and you're a big

1:58:58 lady.

1:58:59 A fan too, right?

1:59:00 You love you love lady.

1:59:01 No chicks.

1:59:02 No chicks.

1:59:03 Dixie chicks.

1:59:04 No, they're just the chicks.

1:59:05 Yeah.

1:59:06 The chicks.

1:59:07 The word Dixie apparently is problematic.

1:59:08 Hey, dude.

1:59:09 I got my I got my guilty pleasures.

1:59:10 I love some Maddie and Tay.

1:59:12 I love some lady Antebellum.

1:59:13 Oh, you don't know Maddie and Tay.

1:59:15 You blow your mind on your drive back to Texas there kid.

1:59:17 Okay.

1:59:18 Maddie and Tay.

1:59:19 All right.

1:59:20 So, okay.

1:59:21 So that's the country thing with let's do some more Mount Rushmore's.

1:59:22 Okay.

1:59:23 Outlog dirty country.

1:59:24 So I've got culture through in there because he's young.

1:59:27 He's a little bit.

1:59:28 I was trying to throw us something new.

1:59:30 Yeah.

1:59:31 Culture wall.

1:59:32 Who are some other on the, I mean, turnpike troubadours.

1:59:34 Turnpike.

1:59:35 Dude.

1:59:36 Turnpike's amazing.

1:59:37 Let me see.

1:59:38 Because I got kind of more of a like an outlaw.

1:59:39 Yeah.

1:59:40 So Tyler Childers before we started doing weird stuff.

1:59:43 Yeah.

1:59:44 Who else we got?

1:59:45 You know, Charlie Crockett, Sterling Simpson, his first record.

1:59:51 Bro, did you ever get into the Civil Wars?

1:59:53 Oh, I've heard of them.

1:59:54 Okay.

1:59:55 So they were big a while back, right?

1:59:57 Yeah.

1:59:58 So they only did two albums and then they broke up apparently hate each other or whatever,

2:00:01 but like it's so melancholy.

2:00:03 Yeah.

2:00:04 That's what it is.

2:00:05 I know what it is.

2:00:06 Super.

2:00:07 Yeah.

2:00:08 Love it.

2:00:09 I saw them.

2:00:10 Yeah.

2:00:11 They are pretty cool.

2:00:12 Red clay strays.

2:00:13 They're amazing.

2:00:14 Yeah.

2:00:15 They're, they're crushing it right now.

2:00:16 Billy Strings, Dylan Gossett.

2:00:17 He's awesome.

2:00:18 Uh, okay.

2:00:19 I think we gave it a.

2:00:20 Yeah.

2:00:21 Yeah.

2:00:22 Yeah.

2:00:23 Yeah.

2:00:24 Yeah.

2:00:25 Yeah.

2:00:26 Yeah.

2:00:27 Yeah.

2:00:28 Yeah.

2:00:29 I'll play it for you later.

2:00:30 We don't want to trip all the other stuff.

2:00:31 Okay.

2:00:32 Let's do another.

2:00:33 Let's do a Christian metal.

2:00:34 Mount Rushmore.

2:00:35 Yeah.

2:00:36 You can put your own band on there.

2:00:37 No, I'm not.

2:00:38 I'm not.

2:00:39 I'm not a Christian metal.

2:00:40 And here's the problem.

2:00:41 Yeah.

2:00:42 I kind of have to be actual Christians.

2:00:43 That's the problem is most of the bands that I would put on here.

2:00:45 The guys were never Christians.

2:00:46 They were just on Christian labels.

2:00:48 Okay.

2:00:49 I can't.

2:00:50 But you can do whatever you want.

2:00:51 Okay.

2:00:52 I don't know.

2:00:53 I don't know every member of every band of everything, but I'm going to throw my obviously,

2:00:55 but mine are, mine are two of those eight people.

2:00:57 You're going to say holy name is sleeping giant.

2:01:00 Okay.

2:01:01 So there's a person.

2:01:02 Holy name.

2:01:03 Sleeping giant.

2:01:04 Shout out to Tommy against traffic.

2:01:05 All right.

2:01:06 Yeah.

2:01:07 Yeah.

2:01:08 And I'm going to go.

2:01:09 Dude, I'm going to go living sacrifice, obviously.

2:01:12 Yeah.

2:01:13 And then I'm going to go for my last one, dude, who am I going with on my last one?

2:01:25 Yeah.

2:01:26 And I'm over here looking.

2:01:27 I can only, I'm trying to only put people that are legitimately Christians.

2:01:29 And so that's what makes it hard because I'm thinking Xeo, not legitimately Christian.

2:01:34 And I'm going to say, you know, you know, I'm going to go, you know, I'm going to go

2:01:43 living sacrifice the sleeping job.

2:01:49 Oh.

2:01:50 Advent.

2:01:51 Okay.

2:01:52 Advent.

2:01:53 Dude.

2:01:54 Yeah.

2:01:55 For sure.

2:01:56 All right.

2:01:57 I'm going to go impending doom.

2:01:58 Oh.

2:01:59 Dear welcome.

2:02:00 Yeah.

2:02:01 Just because you're safe here.

2:02:02 Yeah.

2:02:03 Yeah.

2:02:04 Living sacrifice.

2:02:05 Because living sacrifice was the reborn album was like the first Christian metal album that

2:02:09 I listened to.

2:02:10 There's the sepul, the sepul Torah of Christian, you know, dude, give me four today.

2:02:15 Okay.

2:02:16 So shout out to Maddie Montgomery.

2:02:17 Yeah.

2:02:18 And then again, I'm struggling for the last one, the fourth one, because I'm, you know,

2:02:21 I'll just put a holy name.

2:02:22 Yeah.

2:02:23 I was going to say the intro to your freaking, they're the intro here.

2:02:25 You know why I hesitated on a holy name?

2:02:27 Because I'm there.

2:02:28 Catalog.

2:02:29 No, it was just catalog because it's like they've got the one LP.

2:02:32 They've got some live stuff.

2:02:33 They've got, you know, some EPs, but it's kind of like you need, you need three, four

2:02:39 albums that like crush it, like in a row.

2:02:41 Like we talked about last night with the impact, bro.

2:02:44 The impact and the realness and the uniqueness of them, for sure.

2:02:48 Yes, man.

2:02:49 Yeah.

2:02:50 One more amount, Mount Rushmore metal, just overall metal, Mount Rushmore.

2:02:56 And so I think this is where we're really going to, we're really going to diverge.

2:02:59 So don't be.

2:03:00 We're not doing new metal, right?

2:03:02 This is like metal.

2:03:03 Yeah.

2:03:04 Well, so let me be more specific.

2:03:05 I'm just going to go all new.

2:03:06 So, so if it's metal, it can be metal, hardcore, metal core, new metal, like death metal.

2:03:13 So metal is a category, not rock as a category because that's, that's almost too broad thrash.

2:03:19 It could be, it could be any of the genres of methods.

2:03:22 So, so basically black Sabbath down because black Sabbath, basically invented metal, right?

2:03:26 Or just just metal of any kind.

2:03:29 That's where they kind of, you know, broke off from just the rock genre or classic rock

2:03:33 genre.

2:03:34 Oh boy.

2:03:35 So the, yeah, this is where we're going to probably make some people mad.

2:03:37 All right.

2:03:38 So.

2:03:39 Okay.

2:03:40 We're going to go corn number one for me.

2:03:41 Okay.

2:03:42 I'm going to actually write yours down.

2:03:43 Okay.

2:03:44 Corn's one.

2:03:45 Okay.

2:03:46 Um, we're going to talk about impact on me.

2:03:49 Okay.

2:03:50 See, see, I love making people uncomfortable.

2:03:53 This is good.

2:03:54 You only get four.

2:03:55 Yeah.

2:03:56 Maybe some honorable mentions.

2:03:57 Yeah.

2:03:58 This is.

2:03:59 I'm cheating.

2:04:00 This is insane.

2:04:01 Okay.

2:04:02 This is absolutely insane.

2:04:03 Dude.

2:04:04 Deal with it, son.

2:04:06 Okay.

2:04:07 We're going to go Pantera.

2:04:08 Okay.

2:04:09 All right.

2:04:10 Um, dude, we're going to go.

2:04:16 We're going to go Meshogo.

2:04:18 Dude, I bleed just immediately came to my brain.

2:04:23 And, um, and, uh, and cannibal, I mean, okay, I mean, if I'm given, if I'm given four,

2:04:38 there it is.

2:04:39 I thought you were going to say some, like, I thought you're going to go black Sabbath,

2:04:43 try to do something like super classic.

2:04:45 Yeah.

2:04:46 No, I want, if anything, I wanted to do something new because I hate the old guys that just

2:04:50 literally like, what's your favorite punk band?

2:04:53 And then it's like something from the 70s, like the, all the like, yeah, it's all the

2:04:57 cliché.

2:04:58 Yeah.

2:04:59 Yeah.

2:05:00 So.

2:05:01 All right.

2:05:02 Number one's gotta be Metallica shame on you for not having Metallica in your top four.

2:05:07 I mean, and shout out to me for getting tickets to go see him at sphere.

2:05:11 How is that?

2:05:12 Not?

2:05:13 How is Metallica in the knock?

2:05:14 I don't know.

2:05:15 I let Zeppelin, one of the most overrated bands of all time.

2:05:18 Everyone's going to hate on you for saying, you know, what else sucks?

2:05:20 Lower the rings.

2:05:21 The Beatles, YouTube.

2:05:22 The first two father movies were four and a half hours too long.

2:05:27 Yeah.

2:05:28 Wait, wait, wait, wait.

2:05:29 Yeah.

2:05:30 I'm going there.

2:05:31 I don't care about the rest of you.

2:05:32 You just said, do you say he's got the godfathers?

2:05:33 I'm going to tell you this right now.

2:05:34 The first two?

2:05:35 Yeah.

2:05:36 First two.

2:05:37 Okay.

2:05:38 Are you saying you like?

2:05:39 Are you interested in my answer?

2:05:40 Because I'd love to give it to you, bro.

2:05:41 Not really.

2:05:42 I'll explain it slowly for the people in the back.

2:05:43 Not really.

2:05:44 So the first time I watched Godfather part one and part two, I was 18 years old and in

2:05:46 college.

2:05:47 And it was like, gosh, are these ever going to end?

2:05:49 It's so long, like it's just taken forever, like someone get to the point.

2:05:53 But then last year, just you're fine.

2:05:55 A couple of years ago, I'm like, okay, maybe I watched them.

2:05:58 I was too young.

2:05:59 Right.

2:06:00 I had too much testosterone going on at the time, I didn't have enough to easily.

2:06:04 So I watched them both again, back to back.

2:06:06 Yeah.

2:06:07 I was literally sitting there like, huh, okay.

2:06:11 So the point, I guess, of the first two godfathers is if, you know, if you live long

2:06:16 enough, you eventually become the villain, right?

2:06:18 Yeah.

2:06:19 Because you have the son of Corleone that becomes the villain.

2:06:23 You know how long it took Christopher Nolan to basically explain that?

2:06:26 It was a single line in the dark night when it was the two face when he's sitting there

2:06:30 in the hospital or whatever.

2:06:31 And I'm like, these guys spent six hours basically trying to say the exact same thing.

2:06:36 It was like, can we please get to the point?

2:06:38 But that's not nearly as egregious.

2:06:39 That's not bothered.

2:06:40 Yeah.

2:06:41 Yeah.

2:06:42 It's just kind of the lore of it, bro.

2:06:44 Right.

2:06:45 I mean, if I was a teenager in the 70s, I would feel differently.

2:06:48 I mean, but I'm in freakin' California tight.

2:06:51 Like what that?

2:06:52 I don't understand the whole lore of like the inside.

2:06:54 It's fine.

2:06:55 Yeah.

2:06:56 It's fine.

2:06:57 That underground criminal.

2:06:58 I mean, it's not nearly as bad as the lore of the rings.

2:06:59 I mean, so it's like, I would watch the godfathers probably 10 more times before I'd watch the

2:07:03 lore of the rings again.

2:07:04 I've never seen the lore of the rings.

2:07:05 Don't wear it.

2:07:06 Don't, don't, don't matter.

2:07:07 I will save you 10 hours of your life because that's, that's the reason I don't watch the

2:07:10 rings or I never watch Harry, but I don't have that is that is like I'll throw in some,

2:07:15 I'll throw in some time for some movies, but I'm definitely not throwing in 18 hours for

2:07:19 well, I can, I can save you.

2:07:21 I can give you a summary because somebody made it.

2:07:23 You know, you have these two little the their boyfriends, but they're little like elf people

2:07:29 or they're not elves.

2:07:30 They're what are they?

2:07:31 They're hobbits.

2:07:32 Yeah.

2:07:33 So they got dirty feet and hairy feet or whatever.

2:07:34 And so they, they spend apparently 74 hours trying to get to this mountain to throw this

2:07:40 ring in there.

2:07:41 Right?

2:07:42 The guy ends up throwing it in their own accident.

2:07:43 And then they ride out of there on these magic eagles, which leads to the question, why did

2:07:47 they just fly the damn eagles to the magic mountain at the beginning and just chuck that

2:07:51 thing in there.

2:07:52 And then all the dorks in the comments section are like, no man, it had to be this and that

2:07:55 and oh, it's Christian allegory and blah, blah, blah.

2:07:57 Why don't you like it?

2:07:58 I don't like it because it sucks.

2:07:59 That's why I don't like it.

2:08:00 It's like the home loan version of today's age.

2:08:01 Like, you know how this is like mom, I'm home alone.

2:08:03 Okay.

2:08:04 We'll be back.

2:08:05 It's over.

2:08:06 Yeah.

2:08:07 Exactly.

2:08:08 And we'll talk about a great soundtrack, home loan soundtrack, but yeah, getting back

2:08:11 to the Led Zeppelin thing, I just, I never, I never understood it.

2:08:14 I never really got it.

2:08:15 Like, I feel like if I was a teenager in the 70s, I would have liked it.

2:08:18 But part of it was a classic rock.

2:08:19 Your dad was not.

2:08:21 So did your father fail you?

2:08:23 No, I'm sure.

2:08:24 That's your dirty rotten mouth, skinnerd was played in the dad's truck.

2:08:29 Of course.

2:08:30 You know, he was, you know, if it was newer rock, like he liked Kenny Wayne Shepard, who,

2:08:35 you know, the song Blue on Black is one of my favorite songs of all time.

2:08:39 So that's more bluesy rock.

2:08:41 You know, my dad wasn't really into, I kind of know the bands that my dad wasn't into.

2:08:45 Like he liked AC/DC.

2:08:46 He didn't really like Led Zeppelin.

2:08:47 He liked.

2:08:48 Oh, he passed down that, that, that horrible trait.

2:08:51 Do you stop it?

2:08:52 Like, but you know, he liked, you know, he liked scorpions.

2:08:55 You know, yeah.

2:08:56 So that was like the extent of like kind of the, I guess, the hair-ish metal stuff.

2:09:02 I kind of think there was another, like who was a big band back there, Black, Black,

2:09:05 not the Black East.

2:09:06 That's a new band.

2:09:07 Black crows.

2:09:08 The.

2:09:09 Counting crows.

2:09:10 Black crows are a band.

2:09:11 Black crows are a band.

2:09:12 But that's the 90s, dude.

2:09:13 Yeah.

2:09:14 No, okay.

2:09:15 I'm, I think I'm like bringing a bunch of them together.

2:09:16 But yeah, he was like more classic rock, Ted Nugent, you know, is what, what he was

2:09:19 into.

2:09:20 But then he, you know, we'd have some Alabama in there and some, you know, diamond Rio in

2:09:26 some random stuff like that, but he was just never really into, he didn't really out like

2:09:30 Aussie or Black Sabbath, no, I never liked Aussie or Black Sabbath.

2:09:33 I get that.

2:09:34 He can never get down with some of the stuff that I got into.

2:09:37 But anyway, so back to my list, Metallica, they got to be in the metal.

2:09:42 Crows.

2:09:43 My favorite new metal band of all time.

2:09:44 As you guessed, last night, which by the way, it's seven dust, by the way, so seven

2:09:48 dust is my favorite new metal band above corn, let biscuit, disturbed, Lincoln Park, like

2:09:53 Deftones.

2:09:54 How did you guess?

2:09:55 It's more metal core.

2:09:57 Yeah.

2:09:58 And the intro.

2:09:59 Yeah.

2:10:00 And you love metal core.

2:10:01 Yeah, I really do.

2:10:03 Just because of their longevity and how they kind of don't miss, I got to go August Burns

2:10:08 Red, because metal of all time, you want to talk about a discography over, over a long

2:10:16 period of time and being so consistent.

2:10:19 And I mean, you, there's some albums that you can be like, yeah, they're not great, but

2:10:22 they just don't miss.

2:10:24 So that would be one that I would say, shout out, and then the other one, which it kind

2:10:30 of hurts my heart because they were my favorite band for like the longest time.

2:10:33 And then you shouldn't meet your heroes.

2:10:34 The guys in the band are kind of jerks.

2:10:37 And you know, but Zayo, because Zayo to me, that's, that's the most important metal band

2:10:43 to me because of how long I listened to them, how different each one of their albums sounded

2:10:48 like, how no one really vocally sounds like Dan from the band.

2:10:53 And you know, this is a band that like, you know, part of the reason why I liked metal

2:10:56 course so much is because I just love breakdowns, right?

2:10:58 I got like a whole playlist on my phone to just, you know, songs are like these incredible

2:11:02 breakdowns.

2:11:03 Yeah.

2:11:04 Yeah.

2:11:05 You know, it's like that, I mean, more than conquerors like that, that song like, but

2:11:08 that was, that one was different for me because like the guitarist sounded so unique to what

2:11:14 I was listening to at the time that whenever I listened to that, I was like, whoa, like

2:11:18 it just caught me off guard.

2:11:18 But yeah.

2:11:19 I found out my, so it's metallic, seven dust, ABR and Zayo.

2:11:23 Wow.

2:11:24 That'd be, yeah.

2:11:25 Our lists are pretty different.

2:11:26 Very different.

2:11:27 Now who else did we disagree on?

2:11:29 Because like, we didn't, we ran across some other ones last night that, uh, you know, you

2:11:32 didn't like that.

2:11:33 I didn't like Led Zeppelin.

2:11:34 Godly.

2:11:35 That's just so crazy.

2:11:36 I know.

2:11:37 I know it's.

2:11:38 That one will never rock music.

2:11:39 If you don't like Zeppelin.

2:11:40 You were right.

2:11:41 Um, I don't know what else we disagreed on.

2:11:46 I think you let you just like a lot more metal core than me.

2:11:49 And that's the, in that overall genre is like a hit or miss for me.

2:11:53 Yeah.

2:11:54 Big time.

2:11:55 Well, look it.

2:11:56 So August burns red dominated that genre for a while before Tim kind of went crazy or kill

2:11:59 switch.

2:12:00 Those were like the two that were kind of dominating kill switch is a, is a, is a go.

2:12:04 They, I, and there's going to a lot of speculation.

2:12:06 I think that they're the, the official, they might be the standard bears of metal core.

2:12:10 Yeah.

2:12:11 And there are people will go back.

2:12:12 I mean, you can literally go back as far as you want, right?

2:12:15 Oh, that was a metal core, that was a metal core sort of, um, riff or whatever.

2:12:20 So they invented it or whatever.

2:12:22 Um, but, but I feel like a bunch of people try to rip off standard of it.

2:12:26 As far as ripping off sound, it's 1000% kill switch engage.

2:12:30 Yeah.

2:12:31 Yeah.

2:12:32 Like they are, they are the, maybe there was abandoned 99 that did it.

2:12:36 Like they were like, people were like refused or whatever.

2:12:39 They want to say that they're like metal core or like converge.

2:12:42 I don't see converges metal core, but I don't even know what they converge calls themselves,

2:12:47 but like it's, it's kill switch.

2:12:49 A live or just breathing is just standard.

2:12:51 Well, and there's, you know, then there's the other bands that are just kind of hard

2:12:55 to put into a specific genre.

2:12:56 So like, you know, we talked about he is legend last night.

2:12:59 Every time I die, the acacia strain, you can't really put either of those three bands into

2:13:04 metal core or even just straight hardcore, but I think people are put every time I die

2:13:09 in metal core.

2:13:10 You think so?

2:13:11 You just got big at that time metal core in the early 2000s was like that was the genre.

2:13:15 Yeah.

2:13:16 But yeah, but like I get it like they don't sound like as they dying or, but they are

2:13:21 lumped in.

2:13:22 It's kind of like.

2:13:23 Yeah, they weren't real.

2:13:24 Right.

2:13:25 They were more, they were more southern rockish for sure, but you're not going to call them

2:13:30 it.

2:13:31 I mean, maybe one really gritty like the vocals and guitars are all really, really good.

2:13:36 So good.

2:13:37 Yeah.

2:13:38 Love those bands.

2:13:39 And for you guys, so obviously impending doom been around for 20 years.

2:13:44 I'm curious for you though, you see scenes come and go.

2:13:49 You see kind of waves.

2:13:51 There wasn't really streaming when y'all got started.

2:13:53 It was, it was still just album sales and all that.

2:13:56 Now we're in the world of streaming and people don't buy physical anything anymore unless

2:14:00 they're like, it's changing.

2:14:02 Yeah.

2:14:03 Well, I mean, you have people that are a little bit more like, Oh, I want to get the record

2:14:05 and put it on my record player and drink my IPA and, you know, whatever.

2:14:08 It's like, okay, if that's what you're into, like, you know, go for it.

2:14:10 I think it's just having that one of one or that one of 200.

2:14:14 I think the more of the exclusivity of like owning a piece of art of something I love,

2:14:22 I think it's a lot more that because everything is just like digital.

2:14:25 I think people are just getting over, not over because it's just, it's so easy and it's

2:14:30 convenient, but just kind of like, I want, I want something more than just this digital

2:14:36 stuff because there was a lot of, like, dude, when you used to like open up the, the booklets

2:14:41 and read the lyrics and read the lyrics and look at all the different art things and all

2:14:46 that stuff.

2:14:47 And I mean, that was before even people were putting lyrics up on the internet to where

2:14:51 you couldn't go look at, you know, the lyrics for these songs.

2:14:54 Like the only way you could get the lyrics would be like reading them in the booklet,

2:14:58 right?

2:14:59 Yeah, keep going over the way you're saying.

2:15:00 Well, no, like, I guess my, I'm just curious for you, like, what have you seen being in

2:15:03 the music industry for as long as you've seen, like how, how labels are changing, how deals

2:15:08 are changing?

2:15:09 Like, because you've seen, you know, certain genres within metal, like, you know, become

2:15:15 more popular and then you have like bands that are really, really rough, but then they're

2:15:19 playing huge shows, headlining festivals and things like that.

2:15:22 And so like, what, what have you seen, like, trend wise from, you know, when you first

2:15:26 got into this, you know, early 2000s to where we are today in 2026?

2:15:29 Well, it's just like back, back in, when, when we were first starting in every, so when

2:15:34 you're first starting, you're just, and this is in every band's timeline, right?

2:15:38 When you're first starting, you're, you're hanging out with bands that are just first

2:15:41 starting as well.

2:15:42 Yeah.

2:15:43 And most of the time, and then back, you know, pre like everyone having a studio and they're,

2:15:48 you know, in their rooms or whatever, you know, some people did, but most people didn't.

2:15:55 And it's just kind of like you needed a, you needed some financial backing to, um, to write

2:16:01 a record.

2:16:02 Yeah.

2:16:03 You know, so you wanted to get signed so that they can front you the monies that you could

2:16:08 record and that you can go on tour.

2:16:11 Well, uh, the thing about it is if you signed a bad deal at that time, I mean, this label

2:16:17 could have own you for five records and say you break in the first record.

2:16:23 They own you for four more records.

2:16:25 That's brutal.

2:16:26 Because you're, they, I mean, most of these deals are obviously not in the artist favor.

2:16:30 Yeah.

2:16:31 Um, it's horrible deals.

2:16:33 I think like, what was, who was it?

2:16:34 I think it wasn't like a day to remember whatever, like they had to like fight, I think it was

2:16:39 a victory.

2:16:40 They were, they were on, but they had to fight like crazy to get off it because, I mean,

2:16:45 they, you know, they, they just got so big, like very quick and it's just, I don't know

2:16:50 how they got out of, out of a deal with them, but it was just like, I can see is like, man,

2:16:55 we're losing so much like we, our band is putting in all this effort and work and like

2:17:00 we literally, I can kind of see like our, the trajectory of these bands is like, we're

2:17:06 growing and growing and growing.

2:17:07 It's like, it's not like the label did anything.

2:17:09 They distribute your record, which is cool.

2:17:12 Um, they got distribution, but, um, yeah, some of these bands just signed really bad deals

2:17:19 and broke and now they're just like, you, they have to constantly be grinding to make

2:17:24 any money.

2:17:25 And I think this day and age, like I have a studio in my room and my room, many has one

2:17:31 in his room.

2:17:32 Like everyone has a studio nowadays, right?

2:17:35 And I think that like owning your own stuff is the way to go.

2:17:40 I mean, you can, you mean like the masters, owning your own music, the masters, right?

2:17:45 Like paying, like making everyone, you know, um, you know, and it's just like a lot of

2:17:51 people want to help that understand.

2:17:53 Now a lot of people are more, since social media came out, a lot of people are a lot

2:17:56 more understanding of like, Hey, labels are the devil, right?

2:18:01 You know, they're just like, they will, they will suck you drive.

2:18:05 They'll take all your money.

2:18:06 They'll do all the things.

2:18:07 Yeah, you were talking about 360 deals now because used to the conventional wisdom was,

2:18:11 Hey, you're not going to make a penny off the record, but you got to just hit the road.

2:18:14 You're going to make money off ticket sales, merch sales and all that.

2:18:17 And then, you know, the labels got hip to that and they were like, okay, yeah, we want

2:18:21 to cut of that too.

2:18:22 Cause you wouldn't even be selling tickets on the road.

2:18:23 If it weren't for us somehow, well, and then the other streaming stuff going out.

2:18:27 And I'm not like some business expert, but I think from what I've kind of heard, it's

2:18:31 more of this, of the thing of the advancements.

2:18:34 Yeah.

2:18:35 Well, so explain, explain how the advancements typically works on like a normal.

2:18:39 Yeah.

2:18:40 So say, you know, all these labels, they will, they will find guys that are brand new that

2:18:48 just like, man, if I can make any, when you make a little dollar in music, like you're

2:18:54 like, dude, someone actually paid money for me to, for my songs, right?

2:18:58 So, but like if someone's going to say, Hey, I'll give you whatever a lot of money is at

2:19:03 the time.

2:19:04 So if you have zero and so on, so I'll give you $20,000 in advance.

2:19:09 You can record your music and do whatever you need to do with this money.

2:19:13 And then there's obviously this like crazy recouping thing in a contract that screws

2:19:17 you over, but that first 20 grand or million dollars or whatever it is, is so enticing

2:19:23 because you have zero dollars in your bag of health.

2:19:26 So like they're pretty much just kind of owning you for, you know, the rest of whatever career

2:19:34 they're, they're buying you outright in the beginning.

2:19:38 And sometimes these bands, these bands artists turn out to be nothing, but then they forget

2:19:42 that, but then they find someone like, for example, I don't know their deal or anything

2:19:47 obviously, but like sleep token, right?

2:19:48 Like they, at one point, they're probably broke kids and then, you know, if someone came

2:19:53 up to them, we'll give, we'll give you $50,000 if you give us four records or we'll give

2:19:57 you 50,000 a record or something like to them, that probably was a lot of money at whatever

2:20:01 time was a lot of money.

2:20:03 And then all of a sudden they're like the biggest band on the planet and it's like, Oh, my gosh,

2:20:09 we are missing out on so much money because now all our masters and everything is owned

2:20:14 by a label.

2:20:16 When you, I remember you saying what face down, you had kind of a 50, 50 deal with them.

2:20:20 So if you sold a record for $10 bucks, you got five, they got five is great, but then

2:20:24 we know, if you want to say their name, you can, but there was another, there was another

2:20:27 metal label where it was like 97, three, yeah, yeah, it was like, yeah, I don't know the

2:20:33 exact offer, but obviously, and this is what most deals are.

2:20:36 I mean, it's like 87, 13, or 90, 10, or it's like, obviously not your favorite, but the

2:20:42 whole thing is the advance.

2:20:45 That's just where they get you.

2:20:46 And like, if you have zeroed colors, it's just like $20,000 seems like a lot, but like

2:20:51 in the music world, like recording a record, I mean, you're like, Oh, my just disappears.

2:20:58 It's gone.

2:20:59 Like you're, you're like, you need a van, you need equipment, you need anything.

2:21:03 I mean, 20 K is it's gone before, you know, and you still need another 30 K, you know,

2:21:10 it's just like, but it just sounds like a lot, whatever that they can kind of, you know,

2:21:16 like, have you ever, you were an insurance, right?

2:21:20 Yeah.

2:21:21 Yeah.

2:21:22 So when I will pass a life.

2:21:23 Yeah.

2:21:24 So when I was, when I do, when I work on construction and when I work in windows, it's

2:21:28 just like this window on, I'm, I'm going to give them a good price.

2:21:30 It's 250 bucks.

2:21:32 Well, the insurance will give them like $30 and it's just like it's, it's, it's like,

2:21:41 like, that's, that's, that's not going to satisfy the, what needs to be done, even on

2:21:46 the cheapest amount.

2:21:47 Like that's, and you have to fight with them to get the, and it's kind of how it's fighting

2:21:51 the industry.

2:21:52 Like did I pay into this all the time?

2:21:53 Like we're paying into like, um, how bands pay into recouping their money.

2:21:59 It's like, it's crazy because if you're not paying attention, you're paying into, they'll,

2:22:07 they'll put the money you put in.

2:22:09 It won't go towards your advancement.

2:22:11 This is just what I've kind of gotten.

2:22:14 I'm not some music industry expert, but like they'll, they'll, they'll run ads for you or

2:22:19 they'll put you in a magazine and then that they, they're using the money that you're

2:22:23 recouping.

2:22:24 It doesn't go to the principle of the advancement.

2:22:26 It goes to like, Oh, this is the market.

2:22:27 So you will always have that $50,000 because they keep putting money into you other places

2:22:34 and you have to pay that back too.

2:22:35 Yeah.

2:22:36 So it's just this, it's just this horrible game of like you just constantly have to like

2:22:41 know you're fighting them.

2:22:42 I'm not sure on a good label unless you've got good team and you got good lawyers and

2:22:47 all this stuff, but like when, when like metal dudes are coming up, they're just like,

2:22:51 they're not like business savvy.

2:22:53 They just want to tour and put records down.

2:22:56 It's all like well-meaning, but these business people, it's a lot of these and it's nothing

2:23:01 has changed.

2:23:02 It's just like business people are going to be business.

2:23:04 They're green.

2:23:05 You know, they're going to, they're going to take advantage of you.

2:23:07 And yeah.

2:23:08 So this day, this, this time, unless you're just kind of really cool label, like some people

2:23:12 just resigned to labels and I'm like, you guys are big enough to where you can do your

2:23:17 own stuff.

2:23:18 But I think it's the distribution of like they're, they plan on touring Europe.

2:23:23 They plan on touring Australia, Asia and these, some of these bigger labels, they have connections

2:23:28 out there and they can get their stuff distributed out there.

2:23:30 So when they go tour there, there is, you know, there's money coming in all over the

2:23:36 world.

2:23:37 And when they tour there, their record has been there, their merch has been there.

2:23:41 And so they establish presence all over the world.

2:23:43 Like for us, we have to like seek out a third party in Europe to sell our merch and do this.

2:23:50 And like we have, we, we've got to find someone that will do it for us.

2:23:54 We physically have to go find someone in Australia, Asia or whatever that will distribute for

2:24:01 us and like have good distribution and have good relate like some of these labels have

2:24:06 good relationships with these people.

2:24:07 I'm assuming all this stuff that like make kind of make sense to me.

2:24:11 We don't have that really like as a band, like people are like, who are you?

2:24:15 You know, it's just like, oh, but this A and R guy or this person, this representative

2:24:19 for this label has a, has the relationship and the reach to be like, hey, we've done

2:24:26 all of our bigger bands.

2:24:27 We've gone through you for distribution.

2:24:29 I need you to help out my little band.

2:24:31 Okay.

2:24:32 And it's all like scratching.

2:24:33 You know, you scratch my back.

2:24:34 I scratch yours.

2:24:35 Maybe these bands, and that's the same with booking agents, right?

2:24:37 Like, oh, I gave you kill switch and sleep token to be on your show.

2:24:41 Now you're going to take my freaking, um, my band that's been out for one week and you're

2:24:47 going to put them on a decent spot or maybe not demand it like that.

2:24:52 But can you put, yeah, you know, my little band on this, you know, because the next time

2:24:56 I'm next time sleep token comes around, I'll make sure you're booking it.

2:24:59 Yeah.

2:25:00 And you're going to make a pretty penny.

2:25:01 It's all like in that, in the, in that world, it's all about you scratch my back.

2:25:05 I scratch yours on behind the scene of the band.

2:25:07 That's why some bands just kind of like, where'd you come from or like they remain in the

2:25:12 lab?

2:25:13 Yeah.

2:25:14 Oh, no.

2:25:15 Yeah.

2:25:16 Because it's just like, it's just about connections in your, in your agents.

2:25:17 Cause you're like, if, if you get, if you get hooked up with that right agent, he's like

2:25:21 that books Metallica, not that agent can, you know, I'm assuming it's just like, Hey, we're

2:25:28 going to go through, you know, he can say, we'll go through you for the next Metallica

2:25:32 show or whatever, whatever band named the big band.

2:25:36 And as long as you take care of this band.

2:25:38 Yeah.

2:25:39 So that makes sense.

2:25:40 So, but, but I, it just, I, I would have to ask some of my friends that I'd see that

2:25:45 they resign.

2:25:46 I just like, why didn't you're big enough?

2:25:48 Like you can literally make your own, like if you put out a record for 10 bucks on band

2:25:55 camp, you probably have 50,000 people buy this record.

2:26:00 And then that's more, I don't know how much money they're getting from a re sign of these

2:26:04 labels.

2:26:05 Maybe they are just getting a ton of cash.

2:26:06 I don't know how it works.

2:26:07 But I'm like, man, it seems like 10 bucks, 50 to 100,000 people around the world buy

2:26:12 this record.

2:26:13 Maybe 50 grand?

2:26:14 I don't know.

2:26:15 Maybe 10,000 people.

2:26:16 It's a hundred grand.

2:26:17 Right.

2:26:18 Like 10,000.

2:26:19 Let's say 10,000.

2:26:20 Yeah.

2:26:21 So, bigger artists, if we were selling like, hey, we're doing our own stuff, 10 bucks,

2:26:26 you guys want to help us out?

2:26:28 I'm sure 10,000 people with some of these bigger bands is not that far of a stretch.

2:26:32 Yeah.

2:26:33 That's a, boom.

2:26:34 100 grand.

2:26:35 Like that's, but I, I just, I don't know their deals.

2:26:39 Right.

2:26:40 So, maybe they're just like, well, so what does it look like for impending doom now?

2:26:43 Because we were talking about how, you know, y'all are in the writing process should have

2:26:48 a new album out at some point in 2026.

2:26:52 Right.

2:26:53 But you did talk about as well how, you know, y'all are independent now, but there's kind

2:26:57 of like a, I guess, a period of time where the label owns all your masters.

2:27:02 They own everything.

2:27:03 They, they were always going to own the originals, but at a certain point, y'all can rerecord

2:27:08 some of your old catalog, and, you know, you can change some stuff here and there, you

2:27:13 know, obviously it's going to be different production and all that, but for the next

2:27:16 iteration of impending doom, like what, what does that look like?

2:27:19 How are y'all approaching the writing process, writing, you know, re-recording any of the

2:27:23 backlog?

2:27:24 Like what does all that look like?

2:27:25 Especially now because we talked about last night, a lot of bands aren't really keen

2:27:28 on putting out the album.

2:27:29 They just want to put out a single and then another single and then another single and

2:27:32 then they package it all as a four or five song EP at some point, and then they just,

2:27:37 they maybe never put out the full length.

2:27:39 Yeah.

2:27:40 And that's just the one thing they got telling you last night.

2:27:42 It's like you're spending the same amount of money on each song.

2:27:45 So it's just like, you kind of, and if you put your heart and soul into each song, you

2:27:49 kind of want every song to have their time to shine, and it just sucks that people just

2:27:54 don't listen to complete records these days.

2:27:56 They're listening to single, single, single, and then the next, you know, band they like

2:27:59 is putting out a single, single, single, and then the next band they like.

2:28:02 So like you get the, you get your three singles and that's why this whole thing, it's just

2:28:07 oversaturated, right?

2:28:08 It's just like everyone's putting out on the, on that Friday, there's 18 bands that are

2:28:12 putting out a new single and you got yours and I went through my 18, and then, you know,

2:28:18 say you put out another one, go through my rounds, put them around, and then you, okay,

2:28:22 records out.

2:28:23 And then you obviously get people listening to the record, but like those three singles

2:28:27 are going to, if the numbers are just quadruple, you know, they're just, and it's just saying

2:28:34 those last four really good two, but I got to put out an album to, you know, for those,

2:28:42 for those group of people that want like the album all, they come out, but it's just like,

2:28:47 it's hard because I get what you're saying, because I want to listen to the album too on

2:28:53 these bands, but like for someone like us where we don't tour enough, we need to like,

2:29:02 we need to have like every bit of kind of attention to these songs as we possibly can

2:29:08 get because we don't have anybody backing us to where we can just have filler songs.

2:29:15 So maybe, I mean, there's just like, maybe we throw up the album and it's like, it crushes,

2:29:20 but my whole thing is like every time we do something, it's like the singles, they get

2:29:25 all the love.

2:29:26 And so for us, we're going to record the most, the best record we probably like, we're really

2:29:36 like doing writing, we're doing rewriting and we're doing rewriting and we're going back,

2:29:40 we're kind of going, okay, let's cut out every bit of filler we can find.

2:29:45 Let's cut out every bit of just, this isn't serving the purpose of the song.

2:29:51 This isn't serving the purpose of the whole album, like really dissecting it, trying not

2:29:56 to get because you obviously could dissect something towards just vanilla and boring.

2:30:01 But we're trying to, we're trying to just dissect it to make it its best possible version

2:30:06 that we can do and not really set a timeline, but obviously we want to put it out soon.

2:30:15 And like summertime, and then we want to play more shows than we typically have.

2:30:21 And so yeah, so we're not really sure how we're going to do the release.

2:30:28 We're going to do some on Spotify, but we may do a bandcamp and we may do a Patreon where

2:30:32 we do like a behind the scenes stuff, more of like personal things, like personal in the

2:30:39 sense of like when we're writing and we're together and like our process of doing it,

2:30:43 maybe going out, watching the dudes roll in some jiu-jitsu, yeah, maybe do some, there's

2:30:49 a lot of shooting ranges out there, maybe do just like day in the life kind of stuff,

2:30:52 you know what I mean?

2:30:53 Behind the scenes of the making of demon notes, the latest ending doom, wait, can we actually

2:31:00 I skipped over?

2:31:01 I forgot until you.

2:31:02 All right.

2:31:03 So if y'all don't know what I'm talking about out there in YouTube or Spotify or Apple

2:31:07 podcast land, I wish I would have saved this email, printed it out and put it in a frame

2:31:12 so I could just have it forever.

2:31:14 I don't know where it came from.

2:31:15 It was either someone that listened to the intro outro music of the show or maybe I shared

2:31:19 a video.

2:31:20 And this was August Brinch Red?

2:31:22 It was probably August Brinch Red.

2:31:24 More than likely it was.

2:31:25 It's like angel notes.

2:31:27 Well so this would have been because I've had, I had several different August Brinch

2:31:30 Red songs as the intro outro but one of them did have Jake's vocals, obviously it's screaming

2:31:35 vocals and all that.

2:31:38 And so because it always was weird to me that the intro outro of the show was a total

2:31:44 of 45 seconds of music, right?

2:31:48 So you would listen to a 15, 20 second intro, an hour of me yapping and then like 15, 20

2:31:53 second outro and people would leave a one star review for the show because of the demonic

2:31:58 bumper music that I used because they just didn't like it.

2:32:01 Now I've listened to plenty of shows where their intro outro music, it's probably unlicensed

2:32:05 music or whatever that they just pulled offline somewhere.

2:32:08 I'm not going to judge the content of the podcast presenter on what they or their manager

2:32:13 or producer chose as their intro outro music.

2:32:17 How dumb.

2:32:18 But I didn't want generic bumper music, I wanted music from an actual band that I actually

2:32:22 liked.

2:32:23 So I had August Brinch Red for a while now, it's holy name.

2:32:25 And so, but I got this email from this person that just said, I can't believe that you would

2:32:32 as a Christian, that you would put out and support these, these songs that have demon

2:32:38 notes in them.

2:32:40 And I was like, all right, I'm going to engage with this, this level of crazy.

2:32:45 It's happening. And so I just started going like, Oh, okay, interesting.

2:32:48 I've never actually heard of those.

2:32:50 What exactly are demon notes?

2:32:52 And for what I can remember, this person basically described that there are sounds that can be

2:32:57 made with instruments and with vocal cords that are irredeemable by the God that created

2:33:04 the universe, the cosmos, those instruments, the people that made those instruments and

2:33:09 the human's ability to create music with their fingers and hands and vocal cords and

2:33:14 all that, that somehow there are certain sounds, certain beats, certain riffs, certain things

2:33:20 that God cannot possibly redeem.

2:33:23 And I am deeply tickled by this interaction.

2:33:25 I want to show, I just want to, I want to be in a room with him when he hears like, you

2:33:29 know how there's like those reaction videos like, Oh, when someone reacts, pass a reaction

2:33:34 to the hellfire for going to shore, and it's just like, I would love to see this, this mutant

2:33:39 freaking reacting to like a Lorna shore song and just see his, I would love to see that

2:33:43 right.

2:33:44 But like, what is your reaction?

2:33:46 Because obviously you said you didn't get a whole lot of pushback early on because y'all

2:33:49 got right in the death metal scene, but you weren't waiting the secular side.

2:33:52 Yeah, not even in like the secular side, a couple of middle fingers here and there and

2:33:56 a couple like pushback things, but like, nothing to, nothing that I would be like, Oh, goodness,

2:34:02 like, we need to really reevaluate this whole thing, right?

2:34:07 Maybe just play the church show.

2:34:09 Yeah, that's funny. We played an old church. I told you this last night that the, the,

2:34:18 it was a church and this was like, when we first started and the green room was the library

2:34:25 of the church and, you know, I like books, I've always liked books.

2:34:29 And I was just perusing the, the, the sections and all, you know, it was him, no, him, no,

2:34:36 no of this and all of that, this and that. And then you get to one and it, and you got

2:34:41 the demon note and it, and then I found the book is called the devil's rock beat and it's

2:34:47 a play. And it's, I don't understand how you could get a book of like, how is this like,

2:34:53 how is it explained in 200 pages?

2:34:55 Yeah.

2:34:56 Beat.

2:34:57 And it's a choo, choo, choo, choo, so the basic beat of every single, the first beat you

2:35:04 learn when you learn, because of hymnals or whatever, like there's no instruments, right?

2:35:08 It's all angelical voices, but I, I just, I just die laughing. There's been so many

2:35:13 people like good hearted, like there are, but there are the people that are that will

2:35:17 judge you and kind of be like church to you. And this is where the cringiness of Christianity

2:35:23 music comes in, right? It's just like, this is where like, if I was a, like a Satanist

2:35:27 secularist, whatever in the death, no, this is where I mean, my lyrical content would

2:35:32 be 1000% beyond like, how do she and dumb this is, right? And it's just, it's so much

2:35:39 ammo. And, but I just think it's so, it's, it's just, it's literally nothing else but

2:35:47 just comedy.

2:35:48 You know what I mean? Like, what can I say about it? Like expound on it? That's not going

2:35:54 to make me sound so dumb, right? Like, if I feel like I try to justify it, it just makes

2:35:58 me, it's very clear that I don't bother you at all. Because I know there are people that,

2:36:02 people in the, the Christian metal, whatever pick the sub genre, but they're in the genre.

2:36:07 And they really do get bent out of shape. When people challenge, I'll go back to this.

2:36:12 I don't know if I told you this or not. This was years ago. I'm sitting with a pastor.

2:36:16 This was back when I was selling insurance. And so I was trying to help him out with his

2:36:19 business. He was trying to help me out with mine because he was a, he was a lay, you know,

2:36:23 a pastor, but then also had a, had a business. And like, we started talking about contemporary

2:36:28 Christian music. So think air one K love. And I just kind of casually say, yeah, it's just

2:36:32 not really my thing. I just, I'm just not really a huge fan of it. Just super repetitive. I just,

2:36:36 the lyrics are just kind of weeks. Awesome. So now you can, it's kids, Bob, for adults,

2:36:40 sure, for Christian adults, right. And this guy, but it has its purpose. Sure. Right. And

2:36:46 you know, I've got my playlist and I've got the stuff that I like that are in that world.

2:36:50 And then he got real serious and looked at me and he goes, comment, I just got to be

2:36:54 honest with you. I'm not sure you're saved. And I was like, sorry, in my good. He said,

2:37:00 he said this to you 100%. And he meant it. He was not being funny. He was not being sarcastic.

2:37:05 And I'm like, say it again. Right. But, but slower. And he goes, no, I just, if you can't

2:37:12 listen to, you know, God's music. Yeah, if you can't listen to the music of God and be

2:37:19 moved in the spirit, then I'm, I'm not sure that you have a saving faith in Christ. If

2:37:22 you can't listen to DC talk and just know that. And for the life of me, I can't remember

2:37:26 exactly how I responded, but I, I felt the need to not just bury this man, like, you

2:37:31 know, in front of me. So many songs are coming in my head right now. That was so funny. But

2:37:35 I was like, dude, you, you don't have the right nor the standing to be able to judge

2:37:40 my salvation based on that because we are to judge people's fruit. You know, do you have

2:37:45 the fruit of gospel repentance in your life? If you don't, you need to probably have an

2:37:49 evangelism conversation with somebody or if they are an actual believer in Christ, but

2:37:53 they've paused their sanctification or that, you know, whatever, maybe you need to have

2:37:57 a brother to brother in Christ conversation. But this man went skipped all the way to the

2:38:01 end and said, I don't think that you are saved. I don't think your name is written in the

2:38:05 Lamb's book of life because you don't like, you know, Bethel, right?

2:38:10 Or because Bethel, dude, I'm just like, that's like, that's not even everyone Caleb music.

2:38:16 Like, you know, that's like, remember, man, D so remember that. Like, are you probably

2:38:21 never listened to it? I listened to Caleb a lot though, because I'm just like, this

2:38:25 is, it's honestly like these people are so jolly. It just kind of like, it's, it's kind

2:38:33 of like a lot of more and even Christians. People don't like to talk about that. I don't

2:38:37 know. Yeah, maybe because it is a business and all the things, but it's just like, they're

2:38:41 so jolly and happy and the people that call in are so like giggly and like, and I'm like,

2:38:47 this is not my Christianity. God bless them. God bless them. And honestly, God bless them

2:38:50 because there is a thing just like how people will be like, dude, my dad says you're satanic

2:38:54 and I'm like, bro, you're like, when I get the satanic thing or whatever. And it's like,

2:38:57 I hope that these people that are reaching out to me are like kids and you're not 28 years

2:39:02 old because I'm gonna be like, well, I'm hoping, I'm just praying to God that like you're you're

2:39:08 a child. You're trying to listen to my music and your dad says, no, right? Yeah, this is

2:39:12 too crazy. Well, when you talk about like Satan's, we'll go ahead and like, I'm hoping for that,

2:39:17 but I just go, my dad says this, my grandma, my mom says this and it's just like, you know,

2:39:23 in my head, I'm on like, I have a 13 year old son. I'm thinking like, I'm hoping to God

2:39:26 that you're a kid. And I just go, dude, it's literally, it's literally not for them. Right?

2:39:33 Like, it's not, right? Like, it's for you. Like, if you love it and you're like trying

2:39:40 to like, you know, navigate this, you know, this faith walk and music and like, this is

2:39:46 like, I actually feel like there's no cussing or whatever. Like, at the basic, right? At

2:39:50 the basics, there's no cussing. It's kind of like, you can blur it and it's not like

2:39:54 too offensive or whatever. As far as like, the words go, I guess. Yeah. But um, uh, it's like,

2:40:02 it's like a gateway to kind of like, you know, oh, I get, I get like, this isn't, it's, it's

2:40:08 got the, the, the beef to it. And it also has like, in my head, even if I can't understand

2:40:16 the words, like, if I know the, the, the band is a Christian band and it's like, okay, and

2:40:21 they've been around for 20 years, you can kind of wrap your head like, oh, it's probably

2:40:24 a little bit more like, like beat down the, the demons and fight and caught, you know,

2:40:31 like, yeah, like, you can kind of, you can kind of, you can kind of like wrap your head

2:40:35 around that. Then you can go, oh, like, I want to go deeper into this. Um, and, uh, that's,

2:40:42 that's it's for you, right? It's for that. Like if you're somewhat in that area of like

2:40:48 new Christian, or I'm new to like heavy metal, but I am Christian and I'm trying to find gateway

2:40:53 Christian stuff. Like maybe that's the thing, but it's like, it's not for grandma, dude.

2:40:57 One, and everyone kind of has their, their, their own style. Everyone's they like, but

2:41:01 then it's like, but people don't give space for the category of metal since the harder

2:41:07 you get into it, like death metal, like deathcore, like, that's, that makes sense. Black metal,

2:41:11 right? It's like, yeah, black metal. It's, it's, it's, you see the corpse paint, you see the

2:41:15 skull is. Yeah. And all the things and it's just like Swedish.

2:41:19 Very nor Norwegian. And it's just like, but it's the funny thing is, it's just like those guys,

2:41:25 those guys got a bad bath and beyond with their wife on Saturday. Right.

2:41:28 So, so, because I, I've asked some of these people, I was like, okay, so Christian metal,

2:41:33 you think that's on like Satan's playlist. Like that's, you know, you, you, what's Satan's

2:41:36 Spotify playlist? What's he listening to? But you know what, here's an argument for, for you,

2:41:41 something to chew on. You know what I think is on Satan's playlist? Contemporary Christian music

2:41:46 sung by non-believers. Because you will, you will sing your heresies before you believe them,

2:41:52 right? I forget who said that quote originally, but it's the truth. And so you will have these

2:41:57 people that get whipped up in the chord progressions and the repetitive nature of these songs and

2:42:02 their song and churches all over the country. And again, it's not congregational singing. It's,

2:42:07 we're going to turn the lights down so no one can see you. We're going to make sure that the

2:42:10 show is going on on the stage. There's 17 people on stage, five of them are singing,

2:42:14 but they're not singing a five-part harmony. Three of the mics aren't even turned on. They're

2:42:17 just sitting there dancing and falling out in the aisles. And we're just going to do this production.

2:42:20 It's going to be sung in a key that most men can't even hit. And you know, then we're going to call

2:42:25 it good. And if you don't like it, it's because something's wrong with you. It's because you're

2:42:28 not saved or it's because you're broken or you have some sort of pride issue or something like that.

2:42:32 But then when you push back and say, they're legitimately people that have come out and said,

2:42:37 Oh, yeah, I'm later after their CCM career was over. Oh, yeah, I never believed any of that stuff.

2:42:43 I was just, I was just doing a job, right? I was singing songs that most of them aren't even

2:42:48 writing these songs. They're singing songs written by professional songwriters. A lot of those

2:42:52 professional songwriters too are also not Christians, but they just know just enough bibble to throw

2:42:57 some scriptury sounding Christianese into the lyrical content. Oh, yeah. And then they sing it,

2:43:02 they record it, they market it, they package it, and then it's sent out to the entire planet.

2:43:07 And so that's when I tell these people that are like, Oh, there are notes or songs or genres

2:43:12 of music that are not redeemable that Christ couldn't, you know, God couldn't possibly use.

2:43:16 I'm like, man, you are so foolish and short-sighted because you don't realize,

2:43:20 I wonder what the percentage is honestly of people who are either singing the songs or playing the

2:43:25 instruments for songs that are on K love or air one that do not have a saving faith in Jesus Christ.

2:43:31 And yet you're saying that's Christian music, but then a band of three or four guys that are

2:43:37 wearing black t-shirts and they're into metal who are actually following Christ and reading

2:43:41 the Bible and all that, that's somehow not able to be used by God. It's how it's packaged, right?

2:43:46 Yeah, I get like you, you, I mean, you can't be blind to the fact of how it's packaged, right?

2:43:51 Like Satan in Hollywood is the pitchfork in the, the red tail and the horns and the things like

2:43:58 the overt darkness. The dude's beautiful. We see that from Ezekiel, right, right?

2:44:04 He was, he was gorgeous. He was gorgeous. He's beautiful. He's not the, but the darkness, right?

2:44:09 No, he's like a lot. Like he's like the morning star. He's a light dude. Like he's the, he's music.

2:44:14 He is, it's just like, it's like, it's like the deception of Satan is so well done that it's just

2:44:22 like, I got you, right? Because it's just like, you know, if it, if it, if it just on the eyes,

2:44:31 like it's very visual and appealing, it's kind of like this is good. And at the eyes, if I see a

2:44:37 black shirt with long hair and a grimacing face, that's bad. Yeah. And it's just like,

2:44:44 it's such an elementary. It is, it is. And that's why I'm hoping that's why I pray.

2:44:51 And I hope that like anybody that does that, they're, they're, they're young.

2:44:55 Um, but then sometimes I meet up, I go to a show, dude, we had an old man at a show.

2:45:03 Like we're doing a, we did a Q and A. And he was like, give me the gospel.

2:45:09 And I gave him, you know, I was like, the, the good news is that Jesus came and, you know,

2:45:17 did all the miracles, did all the things and the, all the good things Jesus did. He died on the

2:45:22 cross for our sins and he rose again. And, um, one day when we died, we get to, we get to be with

2:45:28 him again, you know, and the good news of it. And he can redeem you. And I was given any things,

2:45:33 like give me the gospel. And this dude was trying to bait me into something. Like he was like,

2:45:40 trying to get me to like, I don't like he was trying to like, I knew you weren't like he was,

2:45:46 like, dude, he was, it was almost dark. Like, cause they were all sitting, there was a bunch

2:45:50 of people and it was very awkward. Cause he kept asking, give me the gospel. Or now they're like,

2:45:56 give me the real or something and give me your real test. And it was just like, but the way he

2:46:01 is saying it, it wasn't, it was like, he was one of those guys that are in your comments or whatever.

2:46:07 And he paid for a meet and greet. Yeah. Almost no matter what. And I was like,

2:46:11 dude, talk to me after. I don't know what you're asking me. Yeah. And as they talk to me afterwards.

2:46:17 And when it's all done, because I don't know what you're saying. And, um,

2:46:21 that I was looking at, then we, like, they got the guy that was like mediating and he's like,

2:46:26 okay, uh, any other questions? And then we did like a couple more, but I think they got,

2:46:31 it was just like awkward. I was like, dude, why does it have to be awkward? Right? And anyways,

2:46:38 we finished up and I just, I was sitting on stools. And I was looking for the guy because people

2:46:44 came up to me and they're like, dude, I appreciate it. And then, you know, they're like, sorry about

2:46:47 that. I was like, that's weird. And that's okay. Whatever. And I was waiting for him to come.

2:46:52 And he never came. He never like wanted to clear. I was like, that's what these people are.

2:46:58 They just want to pull the pin on the grenade. They just want to do that. Like they want to just

2:47:03 like, um, you know, and nowadays it's not original anymore, right? Like, like the whole darkness

2:47:10 and screamy, like that Satan, you know, that's like, I get it back in the early 2000s, but it's like,

2:47:15 dude, it's been, it's over, dude. And so a lot of people don't bring it up anymore. You know,

2:47:21 the whole metal band shirts, I know that there was a couple, but like most people now are like,

2:47:25 if someone says it, it just gets shut down so fast these days. Yeah. Um, and I'm glad. Um,

2:47:32 but also you need to sermon, right? Like there's like, there is that thing. Like you can't just

2:47:37 trust anybody. Any metal guy that's singing and screaming or whatever. Um, and that's why it's

2:47:42 like the time does matter, right? Like one guy, one guy's like, I'm a Christian and puts out one

2:47:48 single, you know, I was just like, okay, that's cool. Like keep going, dude. Right. But I'm not

2:47:54 going to be like, you know, I'm not going to put all my weight. Like everybody check this guy out.

2:47:58 I'm like, or like promote or whatever, because I'm like, there's only a few people in my whole,

2:48:04 in any kind of sphere of life that I like to, you know, promote or whatever, like in the Christian

2:48:11 space, like give my backing to because I'm like, I have no idea what you're going to.

2:48:17 What your true intentions are, right? No, you know, that's why like Tommy Jake and Tommy,

2:48:24 I love them to like, I've known, you know, we did a tour with Jake and I hung out with Jake

2:48:30 many a time. Uh, good dude. Jacob August burns red and Tommy of sleeping giant holy name. Yeah.

2:48:36 Oh, yeah. And then Tommy's just like my, my boy. Yeah. You know, just, just salted the earth and

2:48:41 true dudes in the scene that I think really, really want to, you know, bring people to Christ and

2:48:48 like, you know, in both in their different ways, right? Like when they're fruits, having it. Yeah.

2:48:52 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jake wants is more mental health and, um, Tommy's more.

2:48:57 It is no Tommy. He's just such a kid, right? And I love him to death. But Tommy just wants to like

2:49:04 really, um, I mean, he just really wants people to know Jesus, like screw everything else. Like

2:49:11 to put all that everything aside and just run to Jesus. That's like Tommy's thing, right? Like

2:49:17 Jesus, you need just come to Jesus world worlds on fire. Go to Jesus type deal. Like no, no mental

2:49:23 health thing. No, no, this is just like straight to Jesus. And, um, so I, I backed those guys and I

2:49:29 don't mind saying that. But yeah, Evan is, uh, and some people just need their identity in critiquing.

2:49:37 Oh, yeah. Some people just need it, right? They gotta throw stones. They gotta throw stones.

2:49:42 This is my identity. I am the guardian of Jesus. Jesus needs me as the guardian. And I will have

2:49:50 the theological fights. I will fight whether this hard work is satanic or not or things like that.

2:49:55 I mean, y'all kind of ran into that with the repentogram, you know, early on, right? Because

2:49:59 Oh, it's still to that one still to this day. Well, so kind of explain that because we're kind

2:50:03 of around to do a close here, but very, very early on in the band. Obviously you see a lot of the

2:50:08 satanic bands are a lot of, you know, wicking or a lot of these types of things. Those are all

2:50:11 counterfeit. Those are all counterfeit. Right. To like the, what is the pentagrams? It's an upside

2:50:17 down star circle around it. Yeah. But it's just kind of like, um, isn't it like the, what is that?

2:50:24 Like it's just inverted, right? Yeah. The pentagram is an inverted of a Christian symbol.

2:50:29 Well, so is that that I forgot what that was. Well, so there's a lot of different. So the,

2:50:33 the, the pentagram, like, so there's the specific one that's used by Wiccans, which is the upside down,

2:50:38 triangle with the circle around it. And I'm pretty sure there's symbolism with the points of man.

2:50:44 So that's a Vitruvian man. And so some people have connected that with, uh, with the Wiccans symbol.

2:50:50 But also, uh, when Satan picked that as, as like a behemoth, uh, like a winged goat or whatever,

2:50:56 some people will put that face inside of the points and then the horns are part of the upside down

2:51:02 star. And so, uh, but is it not? Is it not? And it's original form, like, uh, like a,

2:51:10 I don't know, Christian, but is it not like, did they invert it to make it like this is unholy now?

2:51:17 Like like, like hell, like the cross, right? Yeah. The upside down cross.

2:51:21 Right. They may that be like that as our satanic symbol, right? Right. I'm not sure if the

2:51:25 star is around, I think it kind of is. I could be totally wrong. But anyways, um, yeah. So again,

2:51:32 yeah. All right. The, the, the repentogram came about. I want to say 2008. I would, we were, I was,

2:51:42 I was sleeping. I was sleeping in the, um, parked in African Walmart parking lot,

2:51:49 trying to get some shut eye and all the rows were taken. And I'm sitting in the front seat,

2:51:55 you know, trying to get the best sleep I can. And I think I was like in between sleep and, um,

2:52:02 in between sleep and like awake, because I'm like, I think it was really hot. We had an old

2:52:08 van. I don't think, you know, I'm not going to leave it on all night. Um, like not diesel or anything.

2:52:14 Yeah. And so I'm like just kind of coming in and out of like dream state and awake state. And I had

2:52:21 just decided to have their other. I mean, that's obviously like not far-fetched, right? It's

2:52:26 pentagram and oh, repentance of Christian word and repentogram and kind of just give it again.

2:52:32 It's just like everything I do. It's just like a counter back to what I think like Satanist bands

2:52:41 or whatever are trying to claim as their own. Right. And, um, so I just like, it's nine points.

2:52:47 And it's like, wait, it's just like ninth fruit to the spirit. And, um, it's just something that,

2:52:53 you know, dude, I was 21. And we had also another word called Gorship. Yeah. Yep. And so it was just,

2:53:03 it's just stuff that we, uh, that I came up with that was just kind of like, you know,

2:53:12 I, I truly do love this music, but I, I mean, I want to use this music for a bigger purpose.

2:53:18 And it's kind of just kind of like, it's fun, but it's also a utility, you know, just like any

2:53:24 symbol that, you know, the, the, oh, sleeper, broken horn saying. I think that's fantastic.

2:53:29 I think it's fantastic. It has like a, it means something, but it's also something that you can

2:53:33 put on things. And it's just like, this is where this is our stamp, right? And so that's kind of

2:53:38 what, uh, it was, but yeah, obviously it looks like, okay, this is a pagan symbol.

2:53:43 And these guys aren't even trying to hide it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it's just like,

2:53:49 dude, I, I promise, I probably like this far in, and I think that most people get it,

2:53:55 unless you're new, unless like there's now it's like this generation of like,

2:53:59 there was the young people. And now there's like people that are like 14 now,

2:54:04 like we're like are just now into us and maybe saying something like Christian,

2:54:08 but it's like, believe me or don't believe me, but it's kind of like,

2:54:15 this is not the life you want to fake. It's kind of like the disciples, right? Like,

2:54:23 do you think they all wanted to have their heads chopped off? Like, is this the fake life?

2:54:29 This is the dream. None of them were, had any money. No, none of them had a, you know,

2:54:33 women. There was no promise of anything except for death and persecution, and you will be happy.

2:54:40 And, and you went in the end, and you went in the end, and you, but you're also promised the

2:54:45 Holy Spirit, right? And so, uh, yeah, there's just, there's besides Jesus and having that at the end

2:54:54 of my life and the peace that it brings now in like tumultuous times or bad times or any good times

2:55:01 even, it's just kind of like, this isn't something, I mean, you could, I don't know why you would,

2:55:09 I guess it for monetary gain, right? But in a band world, it's not the, it's not the, it's not

2:55:18 the goal. It's not the aim. And if it is, you, they, those, it gets, it gets brought out pretty

2:55:25 quick. You know, you can't, you can't sustain it for too long. So yeah, I, the demon note, the drum,

2:55:31 the devil's drum beat, the, the symbols, the black, you know, the black shirts and all that,

2:55:37 that's not signs of the devil. No, no, no, it's much prettier than that. The signs of the devil is

2:55:45 beauty. It's beautiful things that try, bring you to death, right? Like monsters don't, typically,

2:55:52 people don't walk towards monsters. They usually run from monsters. So when you listen to a band,

2:55:58 and it's just like, oh, this is abrasive, but you get something that has a nice beat to it with

2:56:03 something like this, like moth to a flame, right? And it's just kind of like, you, you drift towards

2:56:10 that. And then Satan, that's like, if Satan's beautiful, and this is a monster, I mean, like,

2:56:17 it's so much more luring. Why would Satan use something scary? Yeah, that does that, that like

2:56:22 common sense wise, if I'm trying to allure people, I'm going to bring, it's going to be candy. It's

2:56:27 going to be drink. It's going to be something that's going to numb you. It's going to be something

2:56:31 that's very attractive. It's the lure, but it's got a hook. And it's attractive. And it tastes

2:56:37 beautiful. And it's looks beautiful. And it's all the things, right? If it looks like it has

2:56:41 warts and it's nasty and it screams at me, like, and I think most metal fans understand,

2:56:50 especially these days, like, I just like, I like it because it's just kind of cool. Like,

2:56:56 I like scary movies. And it's just kind of like that. I like scary movies deal. It's not like

2:57:00 everybody that listens to being with is a Satanist, even though they, and, you know,

2:57:05 but it's just you. I think that's just well known in the middle. And like, Christians,

2:57:12 they kind of get scared. And this is why it's so easy just to, it's like, you get scared of a band.

2:57:17 Like, for real, you get scared of a cuss word, you get scared of someone drinking,

2:57:24 you get scared of someone having a cigar, you get scared of a cigarette, like,

2:57:28 or you're, or it flust in the, in the least, it flusters you like, mmm. It's gonna be a tough walk,

2:57:36 bro. Yeah. Because like, who are you talking to? Just you're saying, the wall, like, what are you

2:57:44 doing? Are you just criticizing all day online? Like, what are you doing? And so like, so yeah,

2:57:52 so I just, I think that, um, I think that most metal heads aren't Satanists. They just like,

2:57:57 the sound of the music. Like, it's not that deep, but Christians want to think it's like,

2:58:02 you, you with POD and corn, right? Like, oh, no. Yeah. It's just like, no, it's not. I'm in the,

2:58:08 and Christian metal dudes know, and a lot of them, like, they're not Christian, but they're like,

2:58:12 yeah, they just like the sound. It's not deep. Yeah. But there's this other sound that's gonna

2:58:18 get you, and then there's this other sound that's like, promiscuous sex, all the things,

2:58:23 all those things. It's beautiful sounding and it's, it's popular on radio and it's, but that's okay.

2:58:28 Yeah. It's really weird. I mean, that's what I talked about in episode 666 where I talked about,

2:58:33 okay, uh, you would, if then impending doom, if the murderer, uh, music video popped up on YouTube,

2:58:41 you would shield your kids eyes and turn it off and be like, oh, that's terrible. But then Taylor

2:58:44 Swift comes up and, you know, she's a mid 30s woman making angsty teenage breakup songs as,

2:58:51 you know, a woman that should be married with kids by now. And you know, you just let them

2:58:55 sing along to that, or it could be, could be Drake, it could be, you know, Jay Z, it could be, it could

2:59:01 be any, anything from any genre, and you're just letting them be romanced by things that are not

2:59:06 of God. And you're right. We, we have a, a natural aversion to the things that are overtly dark,

2:59:13 yeah, right? But then it's the things that are just the whispers, right? Because it's like, okay,

2:59:17 maybe you're not going to let your kid watch an exorcism, exorcism scary movie for sure,

2:59:21 but you're going to let them watch, you know, a sitcom like, uh, Modern Family where there's a

2:59:26 prominently featured gay couple that has adopted a child that was, you know, made via IVF with a

2:59:33 surrogate. And then they, then they had the baby. And so we're just going to sneak that stuff in

2:59:38 to the worldview through a very funny, very light, bright and fun lens or in a fun way.

2:59:44 Yeah. And yeah, that's, that's the hard part for, for a lot of people. But I mean, I gotta say, like,

2:59:49 I'm thrilled that, that guys like you and bands like impending doom that y'all are out there,

2:59:54 that y'all are still making that kind of music. Y'all have inspired a bunch of young metalheads to,

3:00:00 you know, follow that genre and to, and to go, go deep with that, but also to reckon with the

3:00:04 things of scripture and some of the, the darker themes of scripture as well. And you're continuing

3:00:10 to do that. And so, uh, it's been great to kind of watch y'all develop. And since we've, you know,

3:00:14 developed a friendship now, I feel like I'm invested in the future of impending doom and making sure

3:00:18 that's as successful as I should be. But maybe we've weaved in and out a lot of different things,

3:00:23 but as of, uh, for now, that's all for me is everything else you want to get off your chest.

3:00:27 No, man. We just appreciate everybody that listens to undaunted and all of his, um,

3:00:33 all of his, all of his, um, all of his shows, all of your shows, dude, I appreciate you. Like,

3:00:39 the, what the work that you're doing is freaking. It's amazing, dude. Ever since I started listening

3:00:43 to you and then like you're in my ecosystem with a bunch of other, your friends, man, it's just

3:00:48 really cool and it's very encouraging. So I appreciate you having me out, man. So thank you for listening

3:00:53 to this podcast. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive

3:00:57 five star review. If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast,

3:01:00 just shoot me an email to info at undaunted.life. That's I N F O at undaunted.life. Follow us on

3:01:06 Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else, including how to

3:01:10 donate to keep more content like this coming your way. Just go to www dot undaunted.life.

3:01:14 And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for our

3:01:18 content. The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self titled debut

3:01:22 album on face down records. The links are in the description. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.

3:01:27 Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience.

3:01:34 Keep seeking the lion of Judah.

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