BRIAN SUMNER | From Professional Skateboarder to Professional Evangelist (Ep. 283)

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0:48 This is Undaunted Life of Man's Podcast.

0:51 I'm your host Kyle Thompson.

0:53 Let's get into it.

0:54 Hi guys.

0:55 Today I've got a special guest on the podcast.

0:56 I'm Brian Sumner, so he was born in Liverpool, England, and he made a name for himself in

1:00 the UK as a skateboarder, and then he became a professional skateboarder, came to the United

1:04 States to the age of 15 to join Tony Hawk's birdhouse skateboards teams.

1:08 I mean, guys, this guy had an amazing career.

1:11 He came at the right time.

1:12 This is really when skateboarding was exploding in the United States and really all over the

1:16 world.

1:17 And he had a very successful 20-year career skateboarding.

1:20 But at kind of the height of a skateboarding fame, he got married, had a kid, his marriage

1:25 fell apart, and he has this really great story of how God kind of saw him through that moment

1:29 because he actually set out on a journey to prove that life was meaningless, that there

1:33 was no God.

1:34 There was nothing like that.

1:35 And as with a lot of guys that said how to do something like that, God snatches them

1:39 up.

1:40 And now he's an evangelist, a pastor, a speaker.

1:42 He's the host of the Foolishness Podcast, and he's also the author of a marriage book

1:45 called Never Fails Marriage Book.

1:48 And guys, this was a really, really, really fun interview.

1:51 Okay.

1:52 We talked about some cool stuff off air, and I'm like, man, I need to go ahead and start

1:53 hitting record so we can get into all this.

1:55 We spent a lot of time talking about MMA.

1:57 He knows a ton about MMA.

1:58 He knows a bunch of MMA fighters personally.

2:00 You know, I asked him who he thinks the goat is and all that.

2:03 We get to talking about jujitsu because he's been trained in jujitsu a lot now.

2:05 Now that he's not skateboarding as much, we talk about his family.

2:08 We really go into a lot of detail about that time and his life when he was suicidal and

2:12 God literally pulled him out of all of that and showed himself to him.

2:16 And you know, it was just an amazing time of his life.

2:19 And that's really springboarded him into the career that he has now.

2:22 He and I are probably going to be doing some more stuff down the road.

2:24 So I'll keep you guys up to date and up to, up to stuff with all that.

2:27 And it's going to be a lot of fun.

2:28 I can just tell you guys, but you're really, really going to enjoy this interview.

2:31 I'm not going to keep him from you any longer.

2:32 So without further ado, let's get into it.

2:35 Brian Sumner.

2:36 Welcome done.

2:37 Daunted life of man's podcast.

2:38 Hey man.

2:39 I'm stoked.

2:40 Excited.

2:41 Jump in and hang out with you today.

2:42 Ready to go.

2:43 It was a lot of fun.

2:44 And I just got to tell you to our audience, I'm so sorry.

2:47 I didn't hit record like 10 minutes ago when we first started talking because we basically

2:50 did like an entire podcast about a bunch of awesome stuff, but we're going to get into

2:54 a lot of different subject matter today.

2:55 I'm really appreciated to have you on, but probably the most important place to start,

3:00 the most generic place to start is kind of how your name became more relevant around

3:04 the globe.

3:05 And that was because of skateboarding.

3:06 And so you are one of the few people on the planet that made a career out of skateboarding,

3:11 right?

3:12 A lot of people want to, a lot of people pretended to, a lot of people would like to think they

3:15 could do that.

3:16 But most of your career, you were known for being a skateboarder.

3:19 So let's just start generically as possible for a kid growing up in Liverpool, England,

3:24 what got you into skating and how'd that kind of like project you on into doing it professionally?

3:29 Well, I guess even knowing your audience, I'll hit on some funny trigger points.

3:33 And what got me into skating, believe it or not listeners is the movie, Police Academy

3:39 4.

3:40 You know, I'm a kid in England, America's kind of making its way over, you've got married

3:45 with children, the Simpsons, the WWF, the Police Academy movies, for whatever reason

3:50 were huge.

3:51 I watched that film, saw the skating.

3:53 I thought it was all Hollywood and stunts, you know, jumping trash cans, grinding stuff,

3:58 whatever else.

3:59 Then I'm on vacation in New Jersey, my first time in America, and I've seen a guy all

4:04 the way up a cave outside the surf shop.

4:06 I was 12, 13 years old.

4:09 I fell in love with skating.

4:11 And so literally for me, going back to Liverpool, which, you know, we joked around earlier,

4:15 prior, we'll jump into that, but Liverpool is kind of like a rough city.

4:20 You know, a lot of unemployment, it's a docking place, it was one of the most famous cities

4:23 in the world at one time, a lot of kind of violence, aggression, craziness, but it's

4:28 a big loving city at the same time, it's kind of crazy.

4:31 I was getting into some bad stuff, skating showed up in my life at the right time.

4:36 It kind of gave me a different life where, you know, you had different friends, you focused

4:40 on different things, even a different fashion sense.

4:42 It was all influenced from America, you know, baggy clothes in there.

4:46 So there I am in England, you know, book tooth kids, having no clue about life, finding

4:50 skateboarding, and that became my religion.

4:53 So yeah.

4:54 Well, let me, let me kind of play into that a little bit because obviously we talked about

4:57 Darren Till and Patty the Batty and some people that you kind of ran around with are people

5:00 that if you were living back in jolly old England, that you would be, you know, you know, going

5:04 around and hanging out with friends with them all.

5:06 Yeah.

5:07 Right.

5:08 Exactly.

5:09 So let's, let's say you didn't find skateboarding or let's say you did what I did the first time

5:13 with the skateboard when I tried to go down a driveway and it skidded out from underneath

5:17 me and I landed on my butt and I'm like, I think I'm going to stick to baseball.

5:20 I think baseball might be my sport.

5:22 What do you think would have happened in your life or like, where do you think your life

5:25 would have turned?

5:26 I know we're just kind of pretending we have no idea, but crystal ball at forming.

5:29 That's a really interesting question because if you were in school at 11 12 13, here's

5:36 what's happening, are older brothers and sisters are starting to take acid, starting

5:40 to do drugs and the prodigy, ecstasy, the rave scene and all that house music stuff.

5:46 You know, I'm 42.

5:47 So I'm older than darn till obviously way older than Patty the Batty.

5:50 I wouldn't have known them, but I'm saying darn till they're the street over for me.

5:54 Patty the Batty is in that area.

5:56 My friends are friends with them to this day.

5:59 And so for me, there's you and me in school.

6:02 What would we have done?

6:03 We would have either probably started getting into some drugs, partying, raging, you know,

6:09 people don't get this.

6:10 It's a lot around the world, but Liverpool, obviously the Beatles, it's such a music town.

6:15 The Bob Marley Pink Floyd kind of Jimi Hendrix smoking weed hanging out lifestyle.

6:20 It's there.

6:21 So either I would have gone into that, which I think I would have ended up, you know, when

6:27 I have been a guy on drugs doing crazy stuff, or I was super passive aggressive as most

6:32 people in England are.

6:33 I joke when I'm preaching, especially that we're all soccer hooligans.

6:37 Everyone's so ready to go that you're almost like passive aggressive anyway.

6:42 If I could have gone back, I would have gotten an MMA for sure.

6:45 I mean, that's my vice.

6:46 I love it.

6:47 And I'm thankful for skating, but I'm just saying Liverpool, a lot of my friends are dead

6:51 or in jail, got in gangs, or got away from it all and just lived the casual life.

6:57 So for me, it probably would have been way worse than if I'd started skating to be honest.

7:02 Yeah.

7:03 It's an interesting thought experiment because I grew up in kind of a rough town in Southwest

7:06 Oklahoma, you know, military town, but also a lot of proud people that lived in that area

7:09 very diverse.

7:10 And so, you know, I could have, you know, gotten mad when I was 13.

7:13 My parents got divorced and you kind of went that crazy path.

7:15 And the thing is, is we all have parallels that we grow up with.

7:19 And so you kind of see like, if you would have studied harder, you kind of would have

7:22 gone this path and been more like this kid.

7:24 If you would have just fallen completely off the radar, you would have kind of gone this

7:27 way.

7:28 And around that same time is whenever I became a Christian, so it's like, okay, you're learning

7:31 how to become a man, learning how to become a Christian.

7:33 And I definitely want to get more into kind of the whole manhood side later.

7:36 But I guess the curious thing.

7:37 So I don't want to, you know, divert too far off of skateboarding.

7:40 Yeah.

7:41 I mentioned baseball earlier, the gap between being really, really good at baseball and being

7:46 a professional is like as far as the East is from the West because I mean, some of the

7:51 best baseball players I've ever seen with my own eyes didn't get to, you know, the middle

7:55 of the minor leagues, right?

7:57 So in the world of skateboarding helped me understand as a non skateboarder, but a kid

8:00 that grew up watching the X games and do tour and all those types of things.

8:04 What is the difference between a kid that's just a good kid that, you know, rides his

8:08 board around LA and all that versus somebody that makes a living at it?

8:12 Honestly, I would say it's almost like circumstance.

8:15 And here's what I'll qualify for the listeners.

8:17 I grew up on Bruce Lee, you know, people getting in the fights, craziness.

8:22 I mean, my dad will be cutting wood in the attic doing whatever and he would have a punching

8:26 bag with carpet in it or paper, you have me hitting it, saying numbers out loud, watching

8:32 Bruce Lee films, not because he wanted me to get in a fighting or not.

8:35 I just liked all the movement and everything.

8:37 So now I'm 12, 13, right around the age.

8:39 I'm skating.

8:40 And again, this question, it just makes sense.

8:43 I'm reading the Dow G. Cundo, I'm reading all of Bruce's books, I'm hearing about philosophy

8:48 and all these minds that of course he grew up around and hearing and the influence of

8:53 it, man needs to culture and all the rest of it.

8:57 And so he, his writings literally said, martial arts or Kung Fu.

9:02 This is the art, the craft, the vehicle that shapes you.

9:05 I heard that and I thought, okay, skating is what shapes me.

9:10 That guy in the woods or the chopsticks who catches a fly, you know what, he said about

9:14 catching the fly, it's that's his focus and Bruce's focus was martial arts and my focus

9:19 was skateboarding and I'm saying that to say, I literally said, okay, it's either getting

9:24 high partying, raging on drugs, craziest like my friends, or I just aim at this skateboard.

9:30 This is all I know and my OCD, my focus to summarize what you're asking me.

9:35 What's the difference?

9:37 I was in the right place at the right time.

9:39 There was a couple of skaters that came out of Liverpool and England guys like Jeff Rowley,

9:43 Tom Penny, very famous, skating made its way over to America and they were looking back

9:48 to England and say, who could be next?

9:50 Well, right then I'm hitting, you know, puberty, I'm a teenager, I'm skating six, seven hours

9:55 a day, I'm winning contest, I'm in the magazines, I was just so conditioned that I was better

10:01 at performing than people, but what I say I was way more talented, no, but there are

10:07 people that are just, that the skaters today, even when you bring it to MMA standard when,

10:14 you know, Conor McGregor talks about talent or not and all the rest, there's guys like

10:17 Shane O'Neill when they skate, but I can never do certain things that they do, but my

10:22 hard work got me known enough where when I had black hair and I was kind of a bit darker

10:27 and I wasn't a believer and I have an English accent and my pro shoe as the Union Jack on

10:31 and I ride for Tony Hawk, Brian Sumner's name is going to be everywhere.

10:36 Would I stand out on a course skating around shore, but the gap it varies, but a lot of

10:42 it was timing, what town were you in, you know, for you, you might have missed out because

10:46 you were in California with me, but if you came out and hung out with me and stayed on

10:50 the couch, oh, who's this guy from Oklahoma, oh, he can do these five tricks, hey, here's

10:54 a photo and then it's up to you to take it so hard work matters.

10:58 I don't think I was, I think my kids are way more talented than I am, right, and you only

11:03 need to look at guys like BJ Penn and people, you know, Marcelo Garcia, there's things about

11:07 them that are just, you know, the prodigy, it was very different.

11:11 So when they just move different, and so like you could, you know, you could blackout BJ

11:16 Penn in a grappling match and figure out it's BJ Penn when he gets into that rubber guard

11:19 or something like that.

11:20 And I was thinking as you were saying that, like everybody knows what Tony Hawk looks

11:23 like, but like Bucky Lassick was a guy that I was like, he just looks different when like

11:27 his moves are just different yet his own style and super positive.

11:31 But you know, on Tony Hawk, he's amazing, Bucky is shocking.

11:34 One of the best to ever do it, but not as famous as Tony.

11:37 Right, and I mean, great on the vert ramp and kind of when Tony wasn't really doing vert

11:42 competitions anymore, Bucky was kind of cleaning up.

11:44 And so, you know, I'm trying to, you know, keep everything straight in terms of timing.

11:47 But with Tony Hawk, the cool thing about him is like, you were riding for Birdhouse, right?

11:51 And so that was Tony Hawk's company and he was the name brand, he was the Michael Jordan

11:54 of skating.

11:55 But I guess here's the thing is there are a lot of people that are famous for being good,

11:59 but they're not the best, right?

12:01 So I'm trying to think of a good example.

12:02 So maybe Conor McGregor is it.

12:03 I'm a big Conor McGregor fan.

12:05 He's not the best 155 pounder ever, but he's certainly the biggest.

12:09 He's the one that, you know, the world revolves around, you know, three weight divisions kind

12:13 of revolve around whatever he tweets, right?

12:15 But I guess give me an idea how good is Tony Hawk?

12:19 Like we know about the 900.

12:20 We know the video games.

12:21 How good was he really Tony's that good Tony is shocking and Tony, you know, he'll tell

12:26 you he was the nerdy kid that they made fun of because he just mastered tricks and then

12:31 skating caught up and see I kind of have like Tony pride in a way where people look down

12:36 on him because he did the McDonald's thing, the bagel by things, all the rest.

12:39 He sold out and blah, blah, blah.

12:41 But see, real integrity is doing what you want to do.

12:44 So Tony was like, hey, I want to do this.

12:46 I want to take skating beyond that.

12:49 We would go on tour and Tony's probably way older than I am, you know, and we would go

12:53 to a demo and he would drop into like a 540 and he just did like the craziest amount of

12:59 tricks on his birthday.

13:00 So I don't know that anyone's ever done as much for skating, obviously like a Rodney

13:04 Mullen or someone, but Tony is that good where every time he skates, it's crazy.

13:10 Now, is he going to do Nollie backside flip body jars like Bucky?

13:14 Is he going to do frontside 360 heel flips turn them with it like Bucky?

13:17 No, but Tony's going to skate that good every time to your point.

13:22 Conor McGregor, is he going to be a better wrestler?

13:24 You know, come from Oklahoma, no way, his wrestling, English guys, we did Bisping out

13:29 great wrestling.

13:30 He had to work on it.

13:31 The darn till he had to work on it, you know, when he was with Kelvin, obviously one thing,

13:35 but I'm saying, Connor had that left.

13:38 No one knew what he could bring yet.

13:40 He had those few moments where the first few fights, he tagged everyone with that left.

13:43 He had a very Bruce fencing style that opened the door.

13:47 Ireland got on board and so Connor now is almost going to catch up and prove Tony never had

13:53 to do that.

13:54 Tony just skated and he was that.

13:56 So when I see Tony Hawk footage, they I'm like, he's amazing.

13:59 I don't care about that really, but I'm backing Tony Hawk and that aspect, you know, so yeah,

14:03 and I think it's interesting to like a lot of people love to look back, especially these

14:07 kids these days.

14:08 They'll look back on stuff that Tony Hawk was doing and be like, Oh, that wasn't that

14:10 impressive.

14:11 The reason is because nobody was doing those things until Tony Hawk, like I remember Ryan

14:16 Metzger.

14:17 So he was a he was a motocross guy.

14:20 He was the first guy to do a backflip in competition.

14:23 And then I remember sitting in my dad's living room and he did a backflip and then went right

14:27 into another dirt ramp and did another backflip and I was like, okay, it can't get any better.

14:32 So here's here's my question to you.

14:34 How much further can skateboarding actually go?

14:37 Because eventually we've got to reach the end of what can be what a human body can do

14:42 on a board.

14:43 I mean, are we just going to be building bigger mega ramps and doing bigger stuff like that?

14:46 Like I feel like we're getting towards the end.

14:48 Or am I crazy?

14:49 I mean, at least yesterday says there's nothing new under the sun, but I'm telling you the

14:53 stuff they're doing today, like again, people like Shane O'Neal, I mean, even Naija, you

14:58 know, people just go off on Naija because he's wearing spandex at some times and he had

15:02 his ESPN, you know, whatever with like a tattoo on his rear end.

15:05 But I'm the guy who's like, you know what?

15:08 He works hard.

15:09 He puts the time in the things he does in contests.

15:12 I can't imagine people being that much better, but it just keeps progressing.

15:18 It's almost like, and I don't know because if you look at MMA, someone was making a

15:22 point the other day in the gym, how many single legs there was in the last UFC or how many

15:26 of this joke or whatever.

15:28 And is it that everyone's focusing on one thing and seeing what works right then, like

15:33 the John Jones leg kicks or the footstomps it used to be?

15:36 I mean, for anything, just to jump all over the place, which I like that we're doing.

15:40 The first thing someone should have said to Kona is, dude, get the best wrestler in the

15:44 gym and spent, because when Chad Mendes came in, two weeks notice, he almost ruined his

15:49 job.

15:50 He had Mendes way smaller, big pay day.

15:53 You know what I mean?

15:54 But he had no gas tank.

15:55 And so like if he could have kept taking him down, if he had had an eight week camp, then

15:59 he can keep taking him down.

16:00 But look at it.

16:01 I mean, here we are.

16:02 It kind of seems like we're crapping the counter, but the low calf kicks, right?

16:05 The low calf kick is a technique that is so devastating, so devastating, it's annoying

16:09 to me.

16:10 But it's kind of like, you know, I remember when Benson Henderson was first doing that

16:14 before he was even champion and yeah, and it's like, why is he doing that?

16:18 Like everyone knows you kick the quad dummy, right?

16:21 And then here we are.

16:22 And it's like, you know, you almost saw it in Mighty Mouse for Sohudo, their second

16:26 fight, you know, like that second fight almost didn't get out of the first round, because,

16:31 you know, Sohudo took that low calf kick and his foot decided not to work anymore.

16:34 I've experienced that kick.

16:36 It freaking sucks.

16:37 But that's just kind of the thing is I'm always curious where it's going to be because, you

16:40 know, I go back and watch some fights from whenever, because I started watching the UFC's

16:43 whenever you could go to Blockbuster and, you know, rent the, rent the movie.

16:46 It's like, okay, we had a guy with one boxing glove on that had no wrestling.

16:50 Yeah, people that can't work a guard.

16:52 But look over the, you know, I don't know when this is going to come out.

16:54 But here recently, Francis and Ganyu just beat Cyril Ghan by wrestling of all things.

16:59 And then using Jiu Jitsu and who's your favorite fighter that I mean, you know, your audience

17:04 is all in on this.

17:05 Who's your favorite guy?

17:06 Well, so it's hard for me to say my favorite.

17:09 It's more so like guys that I will stop what I'm doing to watch.

17:13 So like a Chris Wideman or Frankie Edgar, I love those guys so much that when another

17:18 fighter beats them, I will hate that fighter forever.

17:21 It's like, I will never support that other fighter, right?

17:25 But I'll stop what I'm doing to watch guys like that.

17:27 So what about for you?

17:28 Who are the guys?

17:29 Because, you know, it's kind of easy if you were to say, Darren Till or Patty the baddie,

17:31 but who are those people where you're stopping Valentina's one for me, you'll want his one

17:35 for me, like, you know, they're just so incredibly skilled.

17:38 But for you, who are some of the fighters you stop?

17:40 Even what you said is funny because, you know, came from England, Liverpool to get away from

17:44 the party rage scene.

17:46 I was in a citizen when I came to America.

17:49 All my friends start kind of getting high partying because they're all Americans.

17:53 What do I do to kind of avoid that?

17:55 I go to Blockbuster and I get a load of Sour Patch kids and I rent UFC.

17:59 That's right.

18:00 So who was my first guy?

18:01 I literally put him on the TV last night, Don Fry.

18:05 No, look, Ron Fry and those fights are me by Fry and the mustache and the American.

18:11 So Don Fry and it was kind of like, you know, who I love, it was Croc up.

18:16 I mean, obviously all the pride days.

18:18 I loved Machita.

18:19 You've got a more wrestling background than I love kind of the striker that can do it.

18:24 But yeah, I mean, I love DC for the size of DC to what he did to Josh Barnett, for the

18:30 way to slam people, I just appreciate the competition and I guess, you know, I live

18:36 in Huntington somewhere around, you know, half I L and Kings.

18:38 I see all these guys everywhere.

18:40 I'm really good friends of Benil Dariush and I seen Giga the other day.

18:43 I see Marvin Vittore.

18:45 I go talk to all these times guys as well and share my faith.

18:49 You know what I mean?

18:50 I want to be around those guys as a guy that's in the MMA and I've known Dana for years,

18:54 like when and stay with Dana for days, just me and him about 15 years ago.

18:59 So went to UFC's witness to certain people who came to faith was crazy.

19:04 So yeah, well, it's my advice, yeah.

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19:36 Well, I got, I got to ask you, so well, don't worry guys, we'll get back into all the other

19:40 stuff we're supposed to talk about.

19:41 But I'm always curious when I talk to people that, that understand fighting because for

19:46 me, I was into the early UFC's.

19:48 I missed the pride in WEC days because I was playing ball and I just missed it.

19:53 So I, I will sit on my back porch with a cigar and a whiskey, turn on fight pass and

19:57 just watch old pride and stuff like that, like when crow cop was crow crop and when

20:02 Fedor was Fedor.

20:03 And like when Dan Henderson was Dan Henderson, he's in.

20:05 Always go punches.

20:06 Yeah.

20:07 Yeah, it was ridiculous.

20:08 So in your opinion, yeah, who is the MMA goat?

20:13 Who is the greatest of all time?

20:15 You can define that however you want, because I have a very specific answer to this.

20:19 Okay.

20:20 So I want to know, in your opinion, above all else, as of right now, as of the recording

20:24 of this recording this in January, 2022, who is the goat?

20:27 It's obvious.

20:29 It's Fedor.

20:30 Fedor.

20:31 Yeah.

20:32 He has like a thousand losses.

20:34 Now here's why, here's why, um, so he comes out like he's like mad that someone bent his

20:42 food or something.

20:44 He strolls down to the octagon or whatever, you know, or the octagon pride.

20:49 He was, here's why I say this.

20:51 He was able to change the fight like no one else.

20:54 If you watched the Kevin Randallman fight, he had respect for people.

20:58 His unorthodox kind of hooking almost like gigas punches and Croc up was meant to destroy

21:04 him.

21:05 Nogera was meant to destroy him.

21:07 The people he fought and he still fought.

21:09 Why did he stay in reduced triangle?

21:11 I don't know.

21:13 Why did he get tagged a couple of times?

21:14 I would say in a couple of times, he didn't lose anything and then he was going against

21:21 bigger guys.

21:22 He wasn't.

21:23 I would have said him in the pride era, but now, I mean, what, look, it could be, you

21:29 know what?

21:30 I mean, it could be almost lose that fight possibly.

21:32 I forget who it was against years ago, you know, where the, the, the judging was a little

21:37 bit sketchy.

21:38 And I'll tell you this, some of my friends who were up there up north where DC is, my

21:42 buddy used a check map, black belt, high level, six, three, six, four, and I'm like, what is

21:48 it like rolling wood could be when he's like, Brian, it is, it is the most ridiculous amount

21:53 of pressure.

21:54 This guy, I mean, I'm six, you know, I'm, I'm six foot.

21:57 I'm a wide guy.

21:58 I'm two, twenty, two, twenty five, two, forty, sometimes if I want to be, this guy is way

22:02 bigger than me.

22:03 And he said kebib's pressure is so perfect.

22:07 It's like he's shaped just to do what he does exactly.

22:10 And then he's not corner.

22:11 And the other thing is I'd say you could have said kebib and I go course, but also here's

22:14 the deal.

22:15 John Jones didn't ever hit his potential.

22:19 And then you've got the royal issues, you know, and the cocaine issues and then I don't

22:24 think Fedor ever took anything.

22:26 He could change a fight fast and he beat everyone's heroes.

22:29 So I go in the legend status, him, and who do you go with?

22:33 I mean, what's that?

22:34 I mean, wait, yeah, Brian, I feel like we're, we're going to be good friends, but let me

22:38 just explain to you how you're super duper wrong.

22:40 Okay.

22:41 So Fedor, Fedor and pride probably had one of the most impressive stretches we've ever seen,

22:47 but his career didn't in there.

22:48 Okay. And when you're talking about goat, you can't take a chunk of someone's career.

22:52 You can't take Anderson Silva's title reign.

22:54 You have to take everything into account.

22:56 Yeah.

22:57 Same thing with Habib.

22:58 Okay.

22:59 Yeah.

23:00 Habib.

23:01 His first like 20 fights were against his cousins over in Russia.

23:02 Yeah.

23:03 Like he was fighting Russian tomato cans.

23:04 Like if he had spent, you know, it hit 25 fights in the UFC, he might be the consensus

23:09 favorite.

23:10 John Jones, I've scored all his fights.

23:13 He lost that first fight to Gustafson.

23:15 Yeah.

23:16 4847 Gus. He lost to Tiago Santos on my scorecard.

23:20 He lost Dominic Reyes. And so, and so these are guys that I was like, okay, you can't

23:25 be the goat. And then there's also the Royd issues and just being a complete jack wagon

23:29 outside of all that. And you get into Mighty Mouse, but Mighty Mouse has fought three hard

23:33 guys his entire life, Henry Sehudo, Dominic Cruz and another guy. And he's like three

23:39 in two in those fights. So for me, for my money, if we're talking

23:43 about, shut up, man. I'll build it up on my own. All right. I'll do my own crescendo.

23:48 But if you would take everything into account, when you take losses, when you take avenging

23:53 losses, when you take who they are inside the octagon, outside the octagon, their respect

23:57 that they get everywhere else. The number one goat of all time, George St. Pierre.

24:02 Oh, how did I forget about?

24:04 I know.

24:05 How do they forget about his Canadian? We don't really like it.

24:08 No, it's funny because I think when he fought, was it Johnny and Hendrix? Yeah. I think he

24:16 was roided out of his mind. And that's why George is like, I'm done, because George is

24:21 the sweetheart of a man and devoted. When we were all wondering, why is he retiring?

24:26 What's the issue here? I think that was completely because Johnny never looked this Johnny, right?

24:30 Or Jimmy, which I was Johnny Hendrix as soon as he saw the came in, he couldn't make weight.

24:35 He had no power. We would gas and everything. Yeah. Of course, George. I think I just took

24:40 for granted at the time because that was almost a pride era where I'm seeing the crocups and

24:45 the striking and growing up liking Bruce Lee and watching No Retreat, No Surrender, The

24:49 Last Dragon. I wanted to see the striking. Yeah. I mean, George, I can't believe I forgot

24:54 George.

24:55 Yeah. Well, the thing is, is like, so you watch some of his fights, it's like, okay, people

24:59 are like, oh, he's just going to take you down and lay and pray. But it's like, he would

25:02 out strike strikers. He would out wrestle wrestlers. He would out grapple grapplers and losses.

25:07 Yeah. Right. And the thing is, is his two losses. He avenged and he avenged them brutally.

25:12 Yeah. Right. He took Matt Sarah. Not seriously enough. He came back and absolutely destroyed

25:16 him. He was way too young when he went and fought Matt Hughes for the first time. I'd

25:20 absolutely embarrass. Yeah. He just absolutely embarrassed him the second time around. And

25:24 then coming back again, Michael Bizbing, in my opinion, was kind of a paper champion

25:28 at 185. Kind of an easy deal for GSP to come back, but he comes back, knocks him down and

25:32 finishes him.

25:33 You know, guys who fought Bizbing though, you listen to Charles Sonnen, he says, Bizbing

25:38 hit the hardest, which is crazy. Because Mike kind of went on the radar for a while where

25:41 they were like, he wasn't okay. You know, I want anyone to do whatever. Right. Then you

25:45 see that TV thing they did, which kind of talks about his life. And he's kind of, you

25:49 know, and I've met Mike a couple of times. He's kind of that, you know, he lived probably

25:52 an hour or so from Liverpool. But I thought Mike might even take that fight. And when George

25:57 beat him. And then again, you know, here's a sad thing. I feel like about MMA. If you

26:01 listen to George, George is going to tell you that Nick Diaz to him should have been the

26:06 champ long ago. If you watch the George fight with him, it was like Nick didn't really know

26:09 what he was even doing for three rounds. Right. Then when he gets going, he kind of starts

26:13 because to me, the Diaz has never had a game plan that is like, what's up, bro? If they

26:18 went on a game plan and again, even BJ Penn, if he would have had more of a game plan with

26:22 his ability in jujitsu, the Diaz, and I mean, yeah, I mean, Brian, it's interesting. I just

26:29 drew this connection while you were talking. Yeah. You basically admitted earlier without

26:33 saying as much that you weren't the most gifted skater. You just outworked everybody. Yeah,

26:38 George St. Pierre has some physical gifting, but he just flat out worked everybody else

26:44 because maybe the most gifted fighter ever is BJ Penn. He had, he had flexibility, gas

26:50 tank and power. Like that, that doesn't happen because people ask me, why does Connor get

26:54 so tired? I'm like, because God can only bless someone so much. He can't give you the kiss

26:58 of death in your left hand and also give you Max Holloway's cardio. You know what I mean?

27:02 Do you feel like that's a fair comparison for like a GSP? It's like, he's outworked everybody.

27:07 He did. And it was a discipline. And really for me, not that I was anywhere near obviously

27:11 doing any of this stuff, but I really realized daily on when I was reading those Bruce Lee

27:15 books, tennis players and sports got a lot of baseball guys. Sadly, someone just natural

27:21 freak accident and athletes could do whatever. But tennis players were super driven. You

27:26 get an athlete that's like a tennis player. And normally even you coding wrestlers. This

27:31 is Frankie. This is Chris Wibeman. This is and Amy Sean share back in the day. They were

27:36 just absolute beasts because they were like that tennis player mindset. And also for me,

27:41 I get to America. Guess what? I'm gonna citizen. I might be going home. I break my ankle. I

27:46 haven't got time to sit around partying, raging, doing whatever. So to me, it was more I've

27:51 got to be disciplined. I've got to be focused those Bruce Lee mindsets helped. And it was

27:55 like me just navigating. And that's six hours a day. I mean, George, even now, who was he

28:00 rolling with recently? Was he just with him? Gordon Ryan, Gordon, John, I mean, and Lovato.

28:06 So and I've had people say, man, George will submit some people. Like the people he puts

28:12 away. And for a wrestler, you don't always get a wrestler that can use his jujitsu was

28:17 good. The way transitions, you know. So and again, I'm the, yeah, this is my deal. Like

28:23 I'll prep, right preach travel, but it's kind of like my, my other world is like MMA. And

28:29 I'm again, I'm around so many of those guys. I'm fully aiming to use my, my jujitsu life

28:34 and the rest of it for the sake of the kingdom. You know, I look at it all. Well, and I think

28:39 the thing about it as well for a guy like George is he had the best coaches around him

28:45 and he let them coach. He let Greg Jackson coach him. He let John Donner coach him. Like

28:49 he let, I'm forgetting his Canadian coach. Yeah, the guy for he, you know, yeah. Yeah.

28:54 Yeah. And so he's allowing these guys actually coach them. Yeah, try. Sorry. But whereas

29:00 there's these other guys that are like, I'm the best guy here. And we're, you know, you're

29:04 all my sparring partners. I'll support you where I can, but this camp is about me. And

29:09 you kind of insulate yourself from that. Whereas George is like, okay, Gordon Ryan, you're

29:14 the greatest no geek grappler of all time. And you know, you're naturally 30, 40 pounds

29:18 bigger than me time to get after it. And that's just kind of his style. And maybe here to put

29:22 a little bow on the MMA stuff and then we'll, we'll back our way back into the skating.

29:27 Is there a fight right now that is not on the books that you would most like to see because

29:32 me, you mentioned Giga earlier, he just suffered a loss here recently. He was the guy that I

29:37 was thinking was going to potentially make a run at the championship this year. You know,

29:41 when maybe one more fight and then get a chance at either Max or Volkonovsky, you know, that

29:45 you have some other fights like people are excited for Julian opinion and Amanda Nunes

29:49 to fight again. You know, there are some fights out there that are maybe a fight or two away.

29:55 I'll give you a mind to give you a little chance. Like I would love to see Homzat Chemayev either

30:01 fight Kamara Usman or Colby Covington. Because Kamara Usman and Colby Covington are the best

30:07 175 pounders on the planet. They're 1A and 1B. Okay. But the thing is, is the reason why

30:12 they cancel each other out is because both of them basically assume they can't take the

30:15 other one down right. Homzat Chemayev is not met a mammal on planet earth. Grizzly's included

30:22 that he doesn't think he can double leg. Right. So that's a fight I'd like to see. But what

30:26 is the fight that you think kind of a dream match up? Well, it's funny. Even you just

30:30 mentioned Colby. How can we let that go? You know, like he, when he beat RDA, I was like,

30:35 okay, this is not normal. Right. Every fight since him. And here's the thing. Colby has

30:40 gone after Usman. And Usman has completely respected him. He didn't have to say that

30:45 was a takedown. John Jones wouldn't have said that was a takedown. Sure. He's like, I could

30:48 call out a takedown. Maybe for me, I'm gonna be biased. And here's what's crazy. Benil came

30:54 in and smashed Tony Ferguson. And even on the for the fighters saying, Oh man, he just like

31:02 took him down. You did that to Tony Ferguson. And Benny told me, like again, we're friendly

31:08 see each other around, we'll go do whatever. He said, I got all of his knee pulled it. And

31:14 I couldn't feel the tendon. So he believes like he blew his, Oh, no, his heel hook. Yeah,

31:19 blew his knee out in that. And the guy just kept going. And he goes, I'm just done. If

31:23 that would have been to be doing that or anyone else doing that, it would have been like the

31:27 craziest thing ever. So I know Benny had a couple losses where he got tagged and whatever

31:31 else. So that was at the car close fight, maybe. And he was like, Brian, you know what, I rocked

31:36 him, he was stumbling. I knew there was no power. So I just kind of went forward. I would never

31:41 do that in a higher level fight, you know, so I'd like to see Benny, but he's got, he's

31:46 got to get past Islam, Islam. I would like to have seen, I mean, Kamzat though, I'm fascinated

31:53 by him. I mean, he just looks like from what Gustaf's insane, a guy that's that big, that

31:57 is that much power and control, throwing guys around and laughing. I mean, he came in, tagged

32:02 that one guy and he came in last time, slammed him and did whatever. But I guess, I don't

32:08 know right now. I mean, I would like to see some maybe more serious strikers, you know

32:13 what I mean? I just like, like, just like I watched their Nike, Nikki Holson, you know,

32:17 the other day, the entire guy. And I just, I like be able to see someone that could bring

32:21 something in that we can see as well. But I like all these guys we're talking about,

32:26 you know, it's just, again, it's my downtime. It's on, I'll watch it on Instagram, everybody

32:30 deal with some friends are getting it. I'm free. It's fastest growing sport in the world,

32:35 you know, so when there's a lot of, there's a lot of entry points. So if you grow up wrestling,

32:39 you can get an MMA. If you grow up boxing and get an MMA, that's just kind of the deal

32:42 of it. To get back and maybe even to put a bowl a little bit on your skating career,

32:46 I know that you've detailed in some other interviews, some crazy experiences you've had

32:51 or just some highlights. So from your professional skateboarding career, is there like a highlight,

32:56 like maybe a competition that you won that was kind of a big deal, you know, a trick

33:00 that you've been trying for years that you hit or is like, you know, some crazy story

33:03 where you almost died because the cops were chasing you or something like, give me a good

33:06 skateboarding career story.

33:08 Honestly, man, for me, it's more just been, we aren't the generation that was meant to

33:13 do contests, you avoided them. We went on some video parts for like two or three years and

33:18 when it came out, that was the guy's music. That was the way you looked or whatever. Most

33:23 of my career was just like street skating. I got into a couple of fights. I went around

33:27 the world and really it was skating the Wilshire rail, nose grinding this big rail, sitting

33:33 in tricks. I would do salad grinds and the rest. But I feel like my whole career was

33:37 like, here's this English guy, here's what he's doing. The music he's skating to, you

33:41 know, the misfits, the Ramones, all that kind of stuff. And wearing black. And then just,

33:46 and then, you know, the next part of my life, you're probably going to get into getting

33:51 married at 19, having a kid on my whole world radically changing. I mean, I'm kind of amazed

33:56 I'm still here, even a 42 celebrating, you know, it's all, yeah, Brian, let's, let's go

34:01 ahead and get into that because skateboarding is good. We got to, we got to, I'll say I

34:05 did a lot of really cheesy Hollywood films, made really bad cameos. And here's the thing

34:10 I'll say, I just kind of did whatever I wanted to do. I wrote scripts. I went and did stuff

34:16 in Hollywood. I went and did random sponsors because I always felt like, if you don't

34:21 do what you want to do, there's no integrity in it. You know what I mean? And I definitely

34:26 had a cool perception of people, this English guy and his music and whatever. But I just

34:31 I'm, you know, I'm still tripping out that I'm in America. You know, it's winter in England.

34:35 It's sunny today. You know what I mean? I'm just still like living this dream, I guess.

34:38 So I don't know. I mean, I just didn't take things too seriously. Maybe I'd like to be

34:43 remember for and all of that. And just was blessed by it. You know, made money. I'm able

34:48 to buy this house because of skating. So just to correct you, California is not America.

34:53 We don't claim California. Okay, that's like honey, June beaches, hunches like Texas. I'm

34:57 not kidding. But was it Tito Ortiz on like the city council? How serious of a city can

35:02 it be if Tito Ortiz was elected office? Okay, Tito's brother Marty is eight doors down right

35:09 here. We can go walk over and he's awesome. Tito was, but I heard something like he wasn't

35:14 showing up to the meetings or whatever. And what he stood for was right. You know, man,

35:18 he loves this place. If you come, you come to Huntington, I'll tell you for those listening.

35:23 You go 10 minutes that way to Long Beach, you will get bombarded for not wearing a mask,

35:27 not doing this, not doing that. You go to Huntington, everyone's just cruising and getting on with

35:32 it. And I'll tell you, they had a couple of almost like Trump rallies. You seen Mexican

35:37 black Filipino Asian everyone. I go ride my bike, you know, I'm preaching tomorrow. I'm

35:43 going to get a break. 500 people just relax and celebrating Huntington. It's like, get

35:49 on with your life. Enjoy yourself. There's so much of collecticity here to so many people.

35:54 So I don't feel like I'm stuck in some oppressive like, you can't do this. I mean, I respect

36:00 people, but God made us free, you know, and I don't think half of what we're seeing through

36:05 our new channels. I mean, I was bummed here yesterday that, you know, they took Neil Young's

36:09 all this stuff. I've Spotify, but I didn't realize how crazy he was about everything.

36:14 I only knew it was music and people were like, no, he was like, so yeah, there's the deal,

36:20 you know, yeah, it's a bit of a crazy deal. But I want to get back to something that you

36:24 mentioned, because basically at the height of your skateboarding fame, like you get married

36:29 as a teenager, you married a gal named Tracy, you got married in a little chapel in Vegas.

36:34 Of course you did. You had a kiddo, but your relationship really wasn't going well. And

36:38 that's probably the nicest way that I could spin it. Yeah. And eventually you two got

36:42 a divorce and for you and for a lot of people that put you in a place where you were really

36:47 depressed, you were angry, you were confused, you were suicidal at points. And you know,

36:51 it was an incredibly dark time for you personally. And that kind of, you know, created this on

36:57 ramp into your spiritual life, which we'll get more into here in just a second. But just

37:00 in terms of the relational side with what was going on for you internally, you know, surrounding

37:06 you and Tracy and the kids, can you take us through that time period?

37:08 Yeah, picture. Like I said, you and I went to school, Brian wants to be a skater, you

37:13 want to go be whatever, we make it to America, I'm making money. And listen, for those listening,

37:17 getting blew up, you're making $400 a month living in an apartment in Taco Bell and the

37:22 Jacuzzi life's good. Now you're making 10 or 20 or $30,000 a month. Sometimes it's huge.

37:28 I didn't care about this, but when you've got, you know, pro decks, pro shoes, tech decks,

37:32 this games out there, all this stuff, what I'm saying is I was living the American dream.

37:37 Biblically, I was gaining this whole well, but I was still losing my soul. I wasn't raised

37:42 in the church. I had no faith. I wasn't like some of our listeners who, you know, went

37:46 to church and viewed that as being a Christian. Guys, gals, either you met Jesus or you didn't.

37:51 I had no clue. You know, our money as Charlie Darwin on it, I'm just raised. It's like,

37:55 Oh, we're just of all dapes. Now I'm fighting with this woman that I fell in love with.

38:00 We have a son. We've been together a year, two, three. It's all fallen apart. This is

38:06 my point is this is the first time life is really challenging me. So I'm like, wait

38:12 a minute. Bruce said life's a vehicle. You know, we strip away the clays till the truth

38:16 is revealed. I can figure out a trick. We can figure out an armbar, omoplata, whatever.

38:21 I can navigate life. Well, this thing is collapsed. And I remember saying, you know what God,

38:25 whoever you are, I'm done. And here's why I said this. It was real simple. Either you

38:31 and I were created or were not. Either we matter or we don't. Either our listeners are

38:37 roadkill or they're made on purpose. That was it. Okay, then, where is God? Where's

38:42 whoever? Where's the higher power? Because the guys meditating in the fields, they left

38:46 their families like Buddha and the sitting off just doing nothing. That's not right. You

38:51 know, there's no atonement there. There's no whatever. So I began to look at all the

38:54 different faiths. I went back to my English kind of mindset, my raster friends, my Buddhist

38:59 friends, my Hindu, all the stuff. And I realized and saw through a lot of it. And at the time,

39:06 I'm divorced. I mean, I punched holes in everything, got in a fight from her dad. I

39:09 was getting on probation. I had a Billy Club in my car, didn't know it was legal. I got

39:14 an eight fights in a month. So I have community service. And in the middle of all this time,

39:19 I'm trying to disprove everything. And I looked at the Bible one day, I literally read in

39:24 Genesis one 26 and 27 letters make man in our image. So I'm trying to disprove everything

39:29 and God, you know, your God, the invisible God, we can't see you supposedly once all

39:34 our money in the Catholic church. And craziness said, Brian's made in his image. And I said,

39:39 well, if I'm made in your image, why does my life suck? If I'm made in your image, my

39:42 name's on a skateboard. I'm in sunny California. I'm enjoying these dumb fry fights. But you

39:47 know what? I'm divorced from this woman. And you guys, listen, and some of you are there.

39:51 Some of you are divorced. Some of you are hating life. You're spouse. The Bible says

39:55 not good for men to be alone. You want to see your kids, maybe it's your circumstance.

40:00 It's theirs. I don't know. I didn't want to live. And as I'm trying to disprove the Bible,

40:05 God tells me right there in the next few pages, well, I put Adam and Eve in the gardens. I just

40:10 don't eat of this tree. And they ran over there in the aid of it, their sin. Brian, you're

40:15 going to die because I never heard this. So there I am making money, traveling the world.

40:20 I bought a house. I'm divorced from this woman, separated for a year or two. And as I'm trying

40:25 to disprove all these religions, I'm reading the Bible and hearing about God and his love

40:30 and sending his son. And just craziness. I knew all about God, but I didn't know him.

40:36 And so to kind of summarize all this for seven months, while I'm probation, community service,

40:42 not wanting to live, not a citizen, divorced from this woman, I tried to disprove everything

40:47 I could about the Bible. And one night coming home from community service that was in a

40:53 Christian thrift store, where if you went and saved French fries and burgers in the church

40:57 next door, you got extra hours. So guess what I did all the time? Thrift store went and

41:02 served. I learned how to cook a little bit. And then I came home that night. And here's

41:06 the crazy thing for our listeners. I'd heard all about God. I'd been around Christians,

41:10 but I didn't know him. I went in this room that is right here. I mean, I can walk in

41:15 their two minutes. And in that room, my ex wife, because we said, let's just try and make

41:20 it work for the sake of my son. She's asleep in this room. My son's four or five. We fight

41:25 like crazy that night. And I go in this room and I say, God, I'm done. And I didn't just

41:29 say God. I was like, Yahweh, Jehovah, you know, the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. I was going

41:35 to God to fix my life, make skating make sense, make my wife make sense, make just life. I'm

41:40 alone here in America. Yeah, I've got friends, but what's going on? I'm going to be divorced

41:45 from this person. Like, I don't want this life. I went in that room and began to have

41:49 it out with God. And all those verses, everything came to mind. And I realized I was going to

41:54 God for my own reasons, but God was addressing my issue of sin. I'm living in sin. I'm dead.

42:01 You know, all of sin, I'm falling short of God's glory. And so in this room, I get this.

42:06 I understand this. Get down on my knees. I'm praying like Lord. I just, and it was like

42:10 God allowed me to see for the first time the scales fell off my eyes. Wait a minute. Jesus

42:15 came as the Lamb of God. Jesus shed his blood. I mean, my sin, it was, it suddenly became

42:20 about me, God on my sin. And I have to sit in there for 30, 40 minutes, praying, pursuing

42:25 him, asking for forgiveness. All the things I'd read about Bruce, all the things I'd

42:30 had inherited from England or skating around the world, you see a lot, you see the well

42:34 quick in one instant, as I'm on my knees, just like looking up, the same place where

42:40 I'd sit there and watch pride fight, you know, and whatever else in the little office. It

42:43 was like I knew the presence of God was getting ahold of me. My eyes were open. I saw my sin.

42:49 I fell down on the floor. And if you said, God, I laid out my life, I'll give you my

42:54 skating. I'll get baptized. I'll do whatever you want to do. I'll even remarry that woman.

42:59 And that's how I view to that woman. You know, I loved it, but I hate it. Same for her to

43:03 me. Oh, I can explain it to you. It's like when in John three, Jesus tells Nicodemus,

43:09 you can't see the kingdom unless you're born again, meaning you can be right here hearing

43:13 about it, but you're spiritually dead, Brian, until your eyes are open from the gospel,

43:18 you cannot hear it. Or when he tells Peter, who do you say I am? You're the Messiah.

43:23 He said flesh and blood doesn't reveal this to you, but my father in heaven in that room

43:27 that I'm pointing at that you guys can't see. I had an encounter with God in 2004. I was

43:33 never the same. The Bruce Lee mindset, the Eastern philosophy, the other religions, the

43:37 new ages and whatever I could have thought was done. And I sat there laughing and crying.

43:42 I can't believe this is real. I can't believe that, you know, because the science of it,

43:49 I can't make anyone believe. I can't prove to you. And I'm not meant to. It's meant to

43:53 be subjective to you. The science of it is you hear the gospel. It's the power and salvation.

43:59 God's spirit, there's a work in you and you can hear it. So when people say to me, good

44:03 atheist friends, can you prove it? No. How does God want you to hear by the preaching of

44:08 the gospel? It hits you. You hear his sheep here as voice. I heard when in this room,

44:14 late in bed next to my ex wife, she sits up like a zombie, gives a speech for 10 minutes.

44:19 I wake up the next day and right here where I am, I'm going to serve Jesus. I'm going

44:23 to follow him and give my skating to whatever. She thinks I'm crazy. Three weeks later, she's

44:28 in church. She comes to faith. Three months later, we're remarried. My son's 21. I was

44:34 doing Jiu Jitsu with him yesterday. We have two more children, Eve News 14, Judas 11. So

44:39 to me, God showed up at the top of my career, making great money, saved me redeem me, restored

44:45 my marriage. And since then, I've been crazy about Jesus. You know, so that's radical. Yeah.

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45:17 when you subscribe at prolonlife.com/now. It's absolutely radical. And I'm glad you went

45:22 into all that detail to kind of tell your story. And I do want to parse out a few of the things

45:26 from your story. Because if you think that we're just, you know, highly evolved descendants of fish,

45:33 you know, we're monkeys that wear pants and talk to each other, the thing about it is then none

45:37 of this stuff matters, right? Like none of the, none of the arguments, none of the politics,

45:42 none of the masking, nothing matters, right? Because I tell people all the time, I was like,

45:46 because I have a good friend of mine that's atheist. And I basically told them, I was like,

45:49 look, let's say you and I both die on the same day somewhere down in the future. And you were right,

45:55 right? We're all just matter. We're all just start us bumping into stardust. Well, guess what?

45:58 We're both worm food at the end of the day. But I will have spent a lot of time effort and money

46:03 trying to convince people to do something and be something that's not real, right? That's my worst

46:09 case scenario. Your worst case scenario is that I'm right and you're wrong. And then basically what

46:15 that means is you're eternally separated from the father. And at the moment you realize that all

46:19 you will want was to not be separated from the father. And so that's why I tell people you have

46:23 to reckon with this. Because I think when we're deep down in it, when, you know, the cameras have

46:29 turned off when you've put Twitter down for the evening, it's just you sitting right there. And

46:33 you know that you're not meaningless. You know that you're not just, you know, a, you know, a bucket

46:39 of flesh that gets to walk around on earth for hopefully a good 85 years or so. But the thing

46:45 that's interesting is you set out with a purpose, Brian, and your purpose was to essentially prove

46:52 that life was meaningless, right? You wanted to prove that we were stardust. And there's so many

46:57 people that go out on that cocky journey. And then they had been getting clocked by the gospel.

47:01 And so like, is that a similar story that you've heard? Because I know you do a lot of evangelism

47:05 now and we'll get more into this kind of what you do now and in terms of your pastoral work.

47:08 But is that what you see a lot of times people that set out with this idea that somehow they can

47:13 disprove the God, the universe only to find them? I mean, least strobe, you know, the case for Christ.

47:17 That's right. Literally. And you even just said, then, you know, a moment ago, if we are just

47:23 mush, doesn't matter, we just survive with the fittest. Yeah, even vaccinate and put a mask on,

47:28 let's just let the weak die. Sure. You know what I mean? Let's just let nature have its cause. And

47:32 people have these weird ideas, you know, animals are just so everyone could just play the animal.

47:36 That dog and cat, they're great. We have two of one, three of the other. But you're feeding them

47:41 every day and taking care of them every day. But you go treat that animal the way you treat

47:44 it with the people, probably bite you pretty soon and go find a new owner. The way of this case,

47:48 I'm saying. But yes, I would say the biggest deception is that we're not asking the question.

47:55 And if you come in the gym today with me, we start rolling, I guillotine you. The first thing you're

47:59 going to think is I don't want it to happen again. I'm going to figure out how to not do that. Right.

48:03 We don't do that with life. Oh, you're probably going to think I'm going to go, you know, guillotine

48:07 on my cousins or Christmas or whatever you want to do. We don't do that with life. In life, we're

48:11 just like, no one knows. I'm going to believe this. I'm going to trust that. There's a spiritual

48:15 deception, Sahin Corinthians 4, 4 says. So for me, it was like, if other people could just say,

48:21 what is the goal here? Guys, everyone listen and took a couple of facts for you. You either created

48:27 or not, you have purpose or not. You are not going to die of old age. You are going to die because

48:33 your body fails you. Grandma might have passed away in the sleep and she was sweet and it was

48:38 cute and she was a hundred and whatever, you know, over an open hour or something, you know,

48:41 it lives way older, apparently. But her body failed her. Her kidneys went out, her heart,

48:46 her brain, something stopped. Why? 100% of all people will die, even, you know, Elijah and Enoch

48:54 one day. 100% of all people will die. And God says it's because of the sin. Your payment for

49:00 your sin is death. There's a kiss on the well. We celebrate my wife's mother this weekend because

49:06 of the curse. My mom passed away eight years ago because of the kiss. This kids would have an

49:11 crazy twisted things happening to the day because of the kiss. There's addictions to alcoholism and

49:17 violence and anger and whatever else you want to say, the well's kissed. We're going to die. Why?

49:22 Anyone that begins to ask those questions, you will go around the mountain, the Bible, God,

49:28 not your idea of Jesus, not your bias against the gospel, not your Bart Ehrman and hypothetical,

49:34 you know, contradiction in the Bible. If you go yourself, there's more historical evidence,

49:39 there's more geographical evidence, there's more things hidden from your site. Guys,

49:44 if the Bible's meant to control you, why isn't all the politicians using the Bible to control us?

49:49 Why are they opposing it? Mocking it, living in opposition of it? That's the state of the

49:53 will. So yes, anyone that really truthfully goes to find truth, you have to arrive at Christ

50:00 because he was the way the truth. Yeah. Well, you said the ultimate word, Brian, and it's truth

50:04 because what most people treat life as is as a bunch of opinions, right? Hey, that's just a matter

50:10 of opinion. Oh, you think LeBron James is better than Michael Jordan? That's just a matter of opinion.

50:14 It's that type of a mindset. And they think about matters of opinion rather than binary reality.

50:20 Something is either true or it's not. So when I talk to people, I'm like, look, we can talk about

50:25 dinosaurs. We'll get there. We can talk about Jonah and the well, like we can talk about the

50:29 parting the red sea. We can talk about Noah's Ark. We can we can get to all those things, right?

50:33 Because I'm not just going to tell you to pray about it. If you ask me a question, I'll have the

50:36 answer to. But I was like, we need to start with the binary reality of did Jesus get resurrected

50:42 or did he not? Because like, because there's no more certifiable fact from antiquity than that

50:48 Jesus Christ was a real human being that lived. He was a Middle Eastern Jew that was found guilty

50:53 by the Jews executed by the Romans on a crucifix. He didn't swoon. He didn't, you know, have a body

50:58 doubling to those things. Romans, when they meant to kill you on a on a cross, they did so. They were

51:03 they batted a thousand with crucifixion. The only thing that we need to reckon with, and it's not a

51:09 matter of opinion. He either rose from the bed or he didn't. And so you have to reckon with that

51:13 question before you get into all the other ones, because that's someone that makes the most

51:17 amount of an impact. I think about it. What is that? Think about that visually.

51:22 Let's just say we don't even know his name was Jesus, God, the Holy Spirit, the Bible. You watch

51:27 for a thousand years if you could do every human that's ever lived. Everyone has fallen over and

51:33 becomes wen food. But if you watch Jesus in three days, he got up again. It isn't that we're Christian

51:40 and we're saying he resurrected a human being, God in the flesh, but fully man got out of the ground.

51:46 To our listeners, what does that mean? It means we will have life again. There is life after this,

51:53 that he paid the price for our sins and wrote again. This isn't religion. Like I said, I wasn't

51:58 raised in the church. There's a Catholic church. Five goes down for me. I never went to it. I went

52:03 through all this and I was 20 to 24 trying to disprove it. And then the only other thing is again,

52:08 I was so broken. I wanted answers. Most people don't why? Same thing that happened in Rome.

52:14 They build a Colosseum. There's a circus as long as I'm entertained by my electronics or even

52:19 our UFC or even Jiu Jitsu or whatever we're into. The idols of this world that distract us from the

52:25 reality. And here's the thing, just to go wherever, when I go to skate parks and hang out with kids,

52:30 I don't start with talking about Jesus and God. I talk about the state of the world and they begin

52:35 to see a wicked and crazy and things are. All these famous people in the worship and they're all

52:40 seeing eye and the triangle and the capstone. Guys, what's the biggest religion in the world?

52:45 Why do all these people have these behind the same things? What do they all do and

52:48 watch the agenda? And when they realize they believe in that and they see so much evidence

52:54 for it, then they go, guys, where does anywhere talk about this? Biblically, there's a spiritual

53:00 deception. You have to wear masks outside, but you add what like three or four rapper chicks dancing

53:05 around a pole making out like the Grammys or something. I'm like, is this not just showing you

53:10 the deception? So I'm not just trying to be politically that even I'm sure a lot of your listeners are

53:14 more political than I am or whatever you want to say. But common sense would say, I'm going to die,

53:20 the world's crazy. Does God speak anywhere? And then it's, and you know, I have a podcast

53:25 called Foolishness because first Corinthians 118 says the message of the cross is foolishness to

53:31 those that are perishing. So if I'd have had this years ago, I'd have been into the UFC talk and

53:35 skate talk, but this part, I'm like, this is crazy, which is sad because skating will pass. You have

53:42 civil pass, wheel pass. And the God talk is really what should be relevant to people. So

53:47 well, and that's one thing that I have a tendency to do is because like, I'll risk some relational

53:51 chips and I'll risk offending somebody, um, to ask them the question. And I was talking to a guy,

53:56 buddy, my name, Mike Ritalin, he's a former Navy SEAL. He's a dog trainer. He's a great, great dude,

54:00 but he's somewhere between atheists and agnostic. And at one point during an interview, he literally

54:05 goes Kyle, seriously, why the F you care whether or not I believe in God? And you know, he wasn't,

54:10 that's just how he talks. He wasn't actually mad at me at all. But in that moment, like,

54:14 because I didn't know he was going to say that, I said, because I want you to have what I have,

54:17 brother, because I love you. And because like, if again, and I brought up the worm food thing,

54:22 but it's like, brother, if, if I'm right, and someday we have to answer for, for the sins that

54:27 we've committed, it's like, and if you start giving excuses and one of those excuses isn't

54:31 the blood of Christ, it's not going to work out well for you. I didn't say it exactly like that. But

54:35 and he, he was defanged by the way I answered the question because what he was expecting was is,

54:40 well, you're covered in sin. And if you're covered in sin, you got to be this, you got that in Europe,

54:45 you're a defiler. And that's what he was expecting. He was expecting hell, fire and brimstone.

54:50 And he was expecting me to take the Bible and bash him over the head with it. And what's funny

54:54 about that is the only people that complained about our interview later were other Christians.

54:58 They're like, do you even understand a politics or do you even whatever? But he has now categorized

55:03 me as somebody that he can have that conversation with the one you just talked about, because I

55:08 just chucked a rock in his shoe, right? I want him to think about some of the things that I said

55:12 later when he's wakes up in the middle of night, he's like, damn, why do Kyle say that thing about

55:17 work? And one day, I'm going to really hug you and say, thank you. Because again, and here's

55:22 the clear thing. And you probably know this about me. When I was trying to disprove all this,

55:26 John the Baptist shows up, goes about preaching, repent. John dies, Jesus goes about preaching,

55:31 repent. So when we hear it in America, we hear repentance, we either don't know what it means,

55:36 or we feel like rocks will be thrown at us. But if we understand the context, Jewish history,

55:41 everyone knew we're all going to die because the state of the world, God's good repentance is

55:47 just putting our faith in and 10 to him. And him living inside of us, that relationship,

55:52 you wanting your friend to have that, why do you leap in care so much is because God's now in you,

55:58 and he sent us to reach others because he loves them. And then when that guy, we believe that,

56:03 you know, it's going to come to faith because of it. And here's the thing, we don't do this to gain

56:07 heaven. But man, I want people to have what I have, the state of the world right now, all the

56:12 things going on, like, okay, I mean, God's in control, he knows what's happened. None of this

56:16 is a surprise. I just hope more people wake up, have Christ see his blood can be applied to our

56:23 fallen nature. And guys, that's it. And for you and I, we both just know how much we need Jesus

56:29 more every day because we're perfect. So yeah. Well, when you're talking to somebody, you want to

56:36 try to remove blockades between the point you're trying to make and them coming to your point of

56:40 view, whether you're trying to debate them on a social issue, or trying to get them to agree

56:45 with you that George St. Pierre is a great fighter ever or whatever, you want to remove the things

56:49 that are in the way that could distract them. And so I say that to say earlier, I mentioned around

56:53 the same time I became a Christian is when I was learning how to become a man, you know, 13, 14,

56:58 15 years old. And for me, the paradigm that I grew up with having not grown up in church,

57:02 just like you, is the manly men were outside the church doing manly stuff. And all the godly men

57:09 were inside the church with their press shirts and their khakis and, you know, everything tucked in

57:13 and shined up shoes. And that's what they were doing, right? And I kept that paradigm even into

57:17 my early twenties that the godly men were in the church and the manly men were somewhere else.

57:22 And as I grew up and as I kind of developed my philosophy on manhood and all that, I saw

57:26 the dearth of real masculinity inside the church is one of the reasons why guys that are rough

57:32 around the edges, you know, your fighters, your Jiu Jitsu guys, your construction workers,

57:36 your military or law enforcement officers, allow those guys would walk into church,

57:40 look around at all the doughy, dopey looking followers of his and be like, man, I got to go do

57:45 something else. Like there's nothing for me here. Especially in the middle of America, maybe.

57:49 Yeah. Right. Absolutely. And so I'm wondering for you and from your perspective, because you

57:53 didn't grow up in church, you grew up in another country, you know, England's basically a post-Christian

57:57 culture. But do you feel like that is a big problem? Because I've basically dedicated my entire life

58:04 to showing people what godly masculinity is the fact that Jesus is the manliest man who ever lived,

58:10 even though you wouldn't probably put him in your top thousand list if you were to make one.

58:14 Yeah. Do you feel like the lack of real manhood inside the church is keeping people from maybe

58:18 seeing the father even coming to hear the gospel message? I literally, you know, I don't know if I

58:24 look too tidy on here for some of our viewers who live in the world. You look great. But you know,

58:28 I'm doing a memorial service Saturday. I'm preaching Sunday. I'm saying that because I just went to the

58:33 friend of ours, you grew up with your trims, my hair, you know, trims that I don't really do much.

58:37 But I literally said to hear today, you know, that men who don't live out their manhood,

58:44 your male, but there's a difference between a man who is going to raise those kids, a man who's

58:49 going to love that wife, a man who's going to walk as a man. We have responsibilities. That's what

58:55 the attack on culture is right now and people can't see it. I'm preaching on Genesis this weekend

59:00 because Jesus in Matthew 19 talks about marriage. And when they ask about marriage, the first thing

59:05 he says is God made the male and female. If you say that, that's controversial today. It's controversial.

59:11 Are they male and female? Well, guys, it's not controversial to the Christian. If God was in the

59:16 room and he's in every room, he made the male and female. And what that means is I wrote a book on

59:22 marriage. I'm going to be preaching in church on Sunday. But as I go and live out my life,

59:26 I meant to present men as God says they are male and females. He says they are female. But yes,

59:32 if you're just the guy in the church who's in khakis, if he's back in the pews, why wouldn't you

59:37 be out there living this life? Why can't you go hunting? Why can't you go do this? Why can't you

59:41 go do that? I mean, King David was out there with his mighty men. And here's why. If you study the

59:46 history of the Bible, the way the nations came against Israel was their goal was to wipe out the

59:52 men. What did Pharaoh do? Wanted to wipe him out. What happened in Jesus' day? That's why Joseph took

59:58 Jesus to Egypt. Even in first kings, it literally is crazy. Elijah is sent against its king,

1:00:04 Ahab. And he says, I will wipe out among your men those who [inaudible] King James, [inaudible] on the wall.

1:00:13 Who [inaudible] on the wall? Men do women don't. So God is sending this man to wipe out the men so

1:00:19 their influence cannot make that in culture strong. That'll happen. And now, I mean, men don't know

1:00:25 what a man is. And the point is, I'll say as simply as this, if we're in churches, a thousand

1:00:31 people, the guy comes in with a gun, I expect every man sitting there to run towards that guy and

1:00:35 stop him. And I expect every woman to run the other way. Are you willing to die for your spouse,

1:00:41 for your family, for your faith, for your call? I'm not just saying in a nation, I love America,

1:00:44 don't get me wrong. But our call is the kingdom, not just the nation we're bringing, the kingdom,

1:00:49 you know, we're invading. So yeah, I would say more men, I mean, be whatever you're into. But I would

1:00:54 also say, I like fighting and rolling. I mean, I mean, jujitsu and training, I've been around men,

1:01:00 I like skateboarding, I like being out. I'm an American, most guys hunting, do all the rest of

1:01:04 it. So I'd say be who you are, I'm going to hate on something. But when you're just sitting back

1:01:10 kind of only in the church, you're not actively in the world, living out what a man is. You know,

1:01:15 when I when you're doing, if you go down here drunk, I'm like, what are you doing? You might be [inaudible]

1:01:19 at a moment, but we're going to go off and go like, man, Ryan's going to call me out on the

1:01:23 something in your spirit. It's like, yeah, we want that, you know what I mean? We want that kind of,

1:01:28 and it's been talked down last two decades in the church. Like, oh, men, just put on your armor. And

1:01:32 here's a sword. And here's that's how we're made. God made us that way. He brought the animals to

1:01:38 Adam to name them. You know, you're going to build a plot of land, figure out the foundation. You're

1:01:42 going to go to jujitsu, you want to get choked or not, listen to the guy who knows. So I don't fight

1:01:47 that whole sex war. Like, well, this, this and that, I'm just like, God says you're male and female,

1:01:51 I'm going to preach the truth. Some of the [inaudible]. And I had a friend say the other day, if you want

1:01:55 to figure out if you're male or female, go outside naked when it's windy. And he said it, preacher

1:02:03 got his gay part and I was like, oh, man, he said, go outside when it's windy in your backyard,

1:02:08 naked. And I was like, oh, man, but the point is, the hard thing is kids now four, five, six and

1:02:14 get brainwashed hold all this stuff. And if you just want to stop, but you know, it's funny. And

1:02:19 I'll say this and take you know, next point, but I'm preaching on marriage. And I didn't realize

1:02:24 that where the Pharisees asked Jesus about marriage is the same place where John the Baptist was

1:02:30 preaching. And I know that John the Baptist was captured and beheaded, but I never stopped and

1:02:34 thought he was beheaded because he was preaching on marriage. He was preaching on God's plan for

1:02:40 the family. And Genesis begins with a marriage, you know, male and female. It ends with a marriage,

1:02:45 male and female Christ in the church. And the whole story of the Bible is marriage where a king,

1:02:50 a man, Jesus came to defeat a serpent to redeem his bride. So if you take male and female out of it,

1:02:57 you're missing the gospel. Right. It's certainly an attack on marriage because when government

1:03:01 becomes daddy, right, when you don't need the man in the house anymore, the government's going to

1:03:05 take care of you. That's an attack on marriage. When you say that marriage can be between two men

1:03:09 or two women or three men or five men and two women, like whatever, like you're attacking marriage.

1:03:13 And now that when you're attacking gender, there's been some people that have done some great work

1:03:16 on this Douglas Murray, Camille Paglia is towards the end of these great empires. So the Greek empire,

1:03:22 the Roman Empire, they became obsessed with gender. They became obsessed with sex. They

1:03:27 became obsessed with these things. Partially, it's because they weren't as worried about, you know,

1:03:31 the Mongols on the other side of the hill coming over and stealing all their women and cows or

1:03:36 whatever. It's just like we're so drunk in our success that we worry about things that don't

1:03:40 actually matter. But the church, I feel like, is doing a horrible job of pushing back against

1:03:44 this darkness because they'll do a once a year men's breakfast and they'll call it men's ministry.

1:03:50 But they're not worried about making their church man friendly. They're worried about checking a box

1:03:55 and doing a man's program. Right. So you get guys together, they have fun, they eat bacon and a bowl

1:04:00 of chili, and then they move on with their lives. They go back to their house and they look at porn

1:04:03 and jerk off. They go back and they get their fancy football lineup ready to go. They go and

1:04:08 ignore their wife. They go and do like they do these other things that have caricature and

1:04:12 masculinity. Because that's the one thing that I always draw a line in. And you basically said

1:04:15 as much, I don't care what you're interested in. I'm very typically masculine in that. I like

1:04:21 four world drives truck trucks and fighting and drinking whiskey and smoking cigars and eating

1:04:25 meat and hunting. I love those things. I don't care. Right. But I don't care if you're into drama

1:04:31 and Shakespeare and gourmet cooking and all those things. What I care about in my definition of

1:04:36 a man is a male that cultivates spiritual, mental and physical resilience on a daily basis. You're

1:04:40 not attacking the individual. You're talking about the office and the call of a man. Yeah.

1:04:45 Right. And when you look at the Bible, and I'll talk about readiness and then I'll tee it back up

1:04:49 to you. Yeah. So because I talk about being in shape a lot and I talk about physical resilience

1:04:53 and how important that is to God and people typically fatties, they'll be like, Hey, I don't

1:04:58 have a six pack. Does that mean that God can't use me? And this is what I tell them. I say go back

1:05:03 and read the first four books of Nehemiah. So Nehemiah risks his life goes before the king says, Hey,

1:05:08 I'm going to go back to a land that I've never been to. And you know, I'm so lamenting what's

1:05:12 happened that I want to rebuild the walls and you know, help my people and he goes back there.

1:05:16 And here's what he doesn't do when he finally announces himself to Israel and says, Hey,

1:05:21 like I'm Nehemiah and we're going to rebuild these gates. We're going to rebuild these walls.

1:05:25 And also we're going to protect ourselves as that's going on. What he didn't say is,

1:05:29 and so tomorrow morning, we're going to start a 90 day program where we're going to be getting

1:05:34 in shape. We're going to be doing farmers, caries, and we're going to be doing deadlift.

1:05:38 And we're going to be working on our, you know, spear thrusting and all these different things.

1:05:41 And then 91 days from now, we'll start work on the wall. No, that's not what he did. What he said is

1:05:46 work starts at dawn, right? That's what he said. And the reason he was able to do that, Brian,

1:05:50 is because those men were ready, right? They didn't train to go fight. They knew how to fight.

1:05:55 They didn't train to be in shape because it was back breaking, work building walls in

1:05:58 H and Israel. They were ready. And so God's God calls in one hand and shovels in the other.

1:06:05 And the thing is, is they had to be ready to do that. So I tell these men, if God calls you to

1:06:10 something, he's calling you now. You don't have time to go train. You don't have time to go

1:06:15 figure it out. And most men are caught flat footed. They're not ready. And even then,

1:06:19 you see, I think it was in Nehemiah where they start with an altar because the reality is God's

1:06:25 presence is there. That's what you need. And, you know, let's just be realistic then. I mean,

1:06:30 you're going there. Here's how basic it is. You and some women are 13, 14, 15. One of you can get

1:06:39 someone pregnant. One of you never can. I don't care what you say that is. I don't care if you

1:06:44 want to argue about whether the ovaries work and this and this and that. Guess what? You're going

1:06:48 to have more facial hair. You're going to have more hair on your armpits. You're going to probably

1:06:52 punch harder than 99% of the females you're around. And there's male definition again,

1:06:58 going the garden when, you know, you're naked and windy and things are going to happen. Now,

1:07:01 look at hair. It's going to have a chest. It's going to have a different shape. Scientifically,

1:07:06 whatever you want to call them and the games everyone's playing, they're made different. That's

1:07:10 the way God made them. The ish and the ish are in the Hebrew to that become one. And here's the big

1:07:16 thing for our listeners. When you're driving down the road and God convicts you all man,

1:07:20 you said this, you sounded like a goof. What are you doing? Oh God, what I'm doing? That's your

1:07:23 conviction. What I'm doing something and God convicts me. But when a nation is flipping off God

1:07:30 and redefining his boundaries, Old Testament, God shows up and things happen. I'm not the guy who's

1:07:38 like, Oh, this is what this is. But in a way, God gave them King Saul and he's almost destroyed the

1:07:43 nation. God gave Israel over our nation now is calling on these false gods and this deception.

1:07:49 All the rest of it. And so yeah, I'm a guy that's like, we build skate ramps downtown the outreach.

1:07:54 A guy comes up to my son and goes, Hey, pick that up. You should be able to pick that up. You should

1:07:58 be able to do what the man says, not debate and argue like all we see today. So yeah, I mean,

1:08:03 I'm a Phesians two tenure is workmanship. After today, what's he called you to? But we need

1:08:08 Homer Simpson, Al Bundy and whoever else you want to see are the examples of men while men are being

1:08:14 taught a bit. It's like a trend. Women are celebrated and we should celebrate them. But are they even

1:08:20 celebrated as women? Or is it almost like toxic masculine women who are shouting at men? You know,

1:08:26 my wife wants to wants to provide in the house, she wants to just be here and take care of the kids,

1:08:31 provide the teaching at the table, you know, for homeschool the rest. I want to go out. I'm thinking

1:08:35 about when I'm 60 when there's retirement. That's it. So that's how I look at the basic, you know,

1:08:41 I'm my study in the way to worship. Can I train up my kids in the way they should go? Can I give

1:08:46 an account for my faith? There's my call protecting my family and covering them. So yeah, I think

1:08:52 you're covering a lot of topics that are important because obviously when you get into when you get

1:08:56 into the gender issue, you know, people don't want to go. They say if you want to go anything

1:09:01 beyond, you know, XX or XY chromosomes like that, you're a bigot or, you know, keeping things that

1:09:05 simple. And people are trying to, they're trying to purposely muddy the waters and to a certain

1:09:11 degree we're casting our pearls before swine, but, you know, in trying to change them. But truth is

1:09:14 important. Truth is a very, very important thing. And, you know, before we get off into some other

1:09:19 political topics, I'm going to come back to some of your pastoral work, because you've mentioned

1:09:22 several things. So you personally do a lot of evangelism for the skating community for the,

1:09:28 you know, the skate park community. I remember back in the day, you had a film called Foolishness

1:09:33 where you evangelize the skateboard community. And you know, you have your skating and the music

1:09:37 and the whole thing. You and your wife, as I understand it, you do marriage ministries and

1:09:41 you both speak and then you speak. So give our listeners an idea of kind of what it is that

1:09:46 you're up to now. And anyways, I guess we could support what you're here. So, you know, you come

1:09:50 to faith at the top of your game. What do you do? Well, like I call Stephen Baldwin is doing this

1:09:55 whole ministry with Luis Palau and Franklin Graham, and Christian or so he's getting out of jail and

1:10:00 he's a Christian. So I connect with these people and they start saying, Brian, just start sharing

1:10:05 your story. So I kind of get pushed immediately in sharing my story of how God's, you know,

1:10:10 I'm for seven months, like I said, I'm trying to disprove this Bible. It's like apologetics

1:10:15 in my head. So I am learning, I am seeing things. I'm understanding why they sacrificed in the Old

1:10:20 Testament, what they're doing in the new, who the Lamb of God is I could, I could tell someone the

1:10:25 gospel and pray with them and whatever God did. So now from that, I get invited to speak places,

1:10:31 go places, I do some Bible school, I end up working on a load of projects. And that has been what?

1:10:36 Since 2004, basically almost two decades, I've just been literally, I've never really said no to

1:10:43 anything. So I will get calls. Hey, can you speak at this church? Hey, can you come out to this

1:10:47 conference? Hey, can you go there? I'm pretty much an evangelist, you know, apostle prophet,

1:10:51 pastor, teacher evangelist. I go evangelize, I train up people, I teach at churches, I speak

1:10:57 at schools, rehabs, whatever. It's a very loose everything ministry. I do the podcast foolishness,

1:11:04 I wrote a book never fails, you know, never fails marriage, working on an evangelism book. And really,

1:11:09 you explain to me to someone, you'd be like, I don't really know what he does, but I know exactly

1:11:14 what he does. He's somewhere sharing doing something that I mean, basically I'm an evangelist. And I

1:11:20 mean, the office of not just evangelizing. So I get emails, can I fill my calendar? And I go do

1:11:26 that all year, I raise full time support. And that's it. Yeah. Yeah. And we've got the links in the

1:11:32 show notes so you guys can check out the book, you can check out your website and look at the

1:11:34 stuff. You know, your Instagram seeing kind of follow along with all those different things as

1:11:38 well. But one thing, you know, we're kind of crocheting doing toward the end here, we've mentioned

1:11:42 it several times, both you and I trained you jitsu. And to be honest with you, whenever I was made

1:11:47 aware of you and whenever I look through your profile and everything, for whatever reason,

1:11:50 I was surprised to see you doing jiu jitsu, but then it makes total sense. It's like you do skate

1:11:54 boarding where you're basically going to get hurt all the time. Might as well do jiu jitsu where

1:11:57 you're basically going to get hurt all the time. So you know, obviously you're, you're skateboarding

1:12:02 and then, you know, you're getting in the ministry, you're doing all those things. But then jiu jitsu

1:12:06 came calm, like it does for so many of us. So how did you find your way into a jiu jitsu gym? Why do

1:12:10 you keep training today? So like I said, the sour patch with the UFC stuff, I always just loved it.

1:12:17 The Bruce Lee, the early martial arts film, I just love the motion. And a lot of the public came

1:12:22 from fear because if you and I are walking down the street in Liverpool, and someone hears your

1:12:26 accent and they just say, hey, bleep the yank, blah, blah, blah, we're fighting. So I don't want to get

1:12:30 beat up. In England, you get on the floor, someone's kicking your face in. I make it to America. I'm

1:12:35 in the skate world. Guess what? I have interviews and magazines and they ask me about ultimate fighting.

1:12:40 Dana White sees that, calls me up, I come out to Vegas, I fly out there, stay in the hotels they own,

1:12:46 hang out with him for those three days, start going to the events, meet all these fighters in this area,

1:12:51 know all these people, you know, met Tito years ago, a lot of these guys. And then as I become a

1:12:57 Christian, okay, Lord, what do I do with all this? Dana called me right when I became a believer.

1:13:02 So I'm tied into this world meeting all these fighters. And I mean, I got to sit and witness to

1:13:06 him, share the gospel with him and his wife, everyone at dinner and all this stuff. I get,

1:13:10 you know, the heart of where he is. And I mean, I honor the integrity for what I think he's trying

1:13:15 to do despite what a lot of people say. From that, I know all these guys, I'm a Christian, I'm a pastor,

1:13:21 a couple of black belts come to watch church. Hey, man, you know, Vandal they would come,

1:13:25 cyborg would come, Babalu, I've been friends with Babalu for a long time, sold out believing,

1:13:30 you know, serious. And I'm one of the professors says, Hey, would you mind coming to the gym and

1:13:34 just hanging out? So many guys go through stuff. I think they could use someone pastorally. So my

1:13:39 professors, you know, Christian, I go to the gym about six years ago, I start rolling, and I tell

1:13:45 the Lord God, I am not going to become obsessed with this. I told, you know, I'm telling you, you

1:13:50 know, because skating has been the only thing I've been that obsessed with. But you think about a

1:13:55 black belt, you think about whatever. I'm a white belt, I go on a mission trip to Costa Rica,

1:14:00 within six months of being a white belt. I'm sharing it a gym. And the guy comes over to me,

1:14:05 it's like, you just started, hey, will you meet my professor? I go in the gym, meet the professor,

1:14:10 he's teaching a class. And he says, I want to change this right now. Will you show us a technique?

1:14:16 He literally, I'm a white belt. And he literally, and I said, Lord, I'm only going to do this. I'm

1:14:22 going to give it all to you. And as soon as you don't want me to do too, let me, he has me share

1:14:27 this technique, probably the one of the only things that I ever learned from someone. I checked my

1:14:31 black belt, it showed me it was the technique the guy was going to show. And I've never seen it

1:14:36 anywhere else. Only Leo Vieira does it. And the professor almost has tears in his eyes. And he

1:14:42 says, I have not seen that technique. That was a blue belt. I was going to show it tonight. I can't

1:14:47 believe this. Hey, will you share your story? The pastor I'm with connects with him goes to the gym.

1:14:52 He's a purple belt. Now we go back in six months, we do an outreach to the area, because many kids

1:14:58 are attacked, raped women, all the stuff, one in six, jujitsu, I end up getting my blue belt. And

1:15:04 then I so now I start traveling. I'm using skating. I'm using jujitsu. God has put me around all these

1:15:09 people. So to me, as a 42 year old guy who doesn't wear spandex and flex, I'll go in the gym and roll

1:15:15 around with you and have fun. I think I'm a purple belt with like two stripes. I've been doing it for

1:15:20 six or so years, seven years. But to me, it's this, it's, I've got some flow grappling hit me up. Hey,

1:15:26 man, I watch all the stuff that you're doing. We'll come into the town, come week, meet and get

1:15:30 assay. I'll connect with all these like, you know, heavy guys who, Brazilians are super open to God.

1:15:37 So I'm like, Lord, if you want me to use this that I love, you know, and you don't really get

1:15:41 head in jitsu unless you're old with goofballs or you're being a brute or it's an accident, you

1:15:45 know, with a white belt. So to me, it's like takes care of my health. It's fun. I probably talk to

1:15:52 people more about jujitsu ministry than I do about skating anymore because skating is everywhere.

1:15:57 Right. And I just, I feel like it's honestly a God thing. Again, like guys like Benny, who's been

1:16:02 on the podcast or talking to these guys and there's, you know, there's a guy Jason Lambert who actually

1:16:07 in for the UFC years ago, I went to a UFC witness to him while we were watching it, came to the

1:16:13 church, came to faith. And he's a serious believer now, you know, like literally came to faith. So

1:16:19 I have these crazy stories. So to me, it's just like God using it. And I go, you know, at least

1:16:25 two or four to five times a week. And the gym, it's a checkmate gym under a Gracie covering its

1:16:32 transition. And so one of the cool thing about it is, and I was just talking with one of our brown

1:16:37 belts out our story yesterday. And when when you're around someone for a length of time in the gym,

1:16:44 you get a pretty good idea of who they actually are. Because you might know someone in the gym

1:16:48 for a year or more before you know what they do for a living. Because everyone's wearing a

1:16:53 gay and a belt, right? And so the thing that you know about that person is the belt colors,

1:16:57 tells you a little something about them. But also how they roll tells you something about them,

1:17:01 how they respond when they get tapped, tells you a little something about them. It tells you

1:17:05 whether or not you can trust them. Because if you see them a week later with their chest out like,

1:17:09 Hey, hey, I tapped this guy. You're not gonna believe because he's one of our best guys. It's like,

1:17:13 okay, you just log that away in your brain. So Jiu Jitsu's are great, a great way for you to kind

1:17:17 of understand that. And I have a group of guys that get together every Sunday. And we call it

1:17:21 Fight Club, but we're all reading the same book. We come together and we talk about the book we

1:17:25 are relating. I lead people through a workout and then we all train Jiu Jitsu. And these aren't guys

1:17:29 with MMA backgrounds. These aren't guys that have a collegiate wrestling pedigree. These are just

1:17:34 dudes. Yeah, they're just dads in there. Some of them are like, Hey, I'm gonna be a white belt

1:17:38 for my entire life. But this is that's where they go. And it's it's a workout. They get to learn

1:17:42 how to fight a little bit. So Jiu Jitsu's just an incredible tell you something funny, though,

1:17:46 you're saying this. And so, you know, I mean, I was probably up to 246 when I was like, you know,

1:17:51 my wife's mom would have been sick or at home a lot. There was so much COVID stuff. And so I'm like

1:17:57 eating in more than that. So in the gym, they would call me like polar bear, you know, kind of like

1:18:01 big. And so I was saying, yeah, so that like, so we're releasing this to the world polar bear. It's

1:18:05 funny. So I'm always, you know, in the gym, they call me pastor, you know, as soon as someone says

1:18:10 something like wrong, they're like, dude, the pastor's here, you know, and I'm there like almost every day.

1:18:15 So I invite the scale of the church. And she's a little Asian girl with a mask on, you know,

1:18:19 she comes in. I never even really seen her face. She comes in the back of the church. And I always

1:18:23 stand in the back kind of like watching. And and pastor gets done. It's like, Hey, say hi to someone.

1:18:28 And so there's a lady sitting here. And she reaches over and says to little Asian lady,

1:18:33 how did you hear about the church? And she points to me and she says polar bear.

1:18:39 My friend next to me, you didn't know they call me polar bears. I'm preaching this again.

1:18:47 They're probably going to say polar bear. But I'm saying, it is I'm very passive because I always

1:18:53 hated bullying. And also there aren't that many guys like as big. So I will almost play defense

1:18:59 law, kind of like down at her said, Hanzo Gracie got on him about and said, Hey, you play this

1:19:03 being real passive. You've got to also go on attack. I figure it more like this. I can either get

1:19:09 one position and go and only do that and be the best guy at that in the gym. Or I can kind of

1:19:13 catch all these things. And as I get higher up the belt, I'm going to have more tools that are

1:19:18 casually coming together. That's kind of how I am. So if I roll with you and you're like, Brian,

1:19:23 I've got a tournament in a week, and you really want to go, I'm like, Oh, go go crazy. I'm expecting

1:19:28 you to try and do everything because I'm focused on your goal. But if you're just like, Oh, hey,

1:19:32 what's going on? Just like, yeah, whatever. So I'm gonna do stuff. But I don't care enough.

1:19:37 But I care enough about the art and the school and the gym. And I'd say 75 80% of the people in

1:19:43 there are believers. A lot of conversation afterwards and a lot of scripture. And just, you know,

1:19:49 it's a religion like skating, skating's a religion being a gangster's a religion, you know, NFTs,

1:19:54 or have you called it's a belief system, jujitsu. I'll tell you something funny, we did a big

1:19:59 outreach once. I Leo Vieira comes speaking, you know, Leo's like what five time well champion.

1:20:05 We have a little mini ramp and there's probably a couple thousand people. He's so nervous. And

1:20:09 there's like 100 people from jujitsu all their ears. And he's super nervous. He speaks once and

1:20:14 I'm helping him. And I'm telling everyone what the techniques are while the role and all the

1:20:19 jitsu fighters are looking at me like, how does this guy know Leo's doing pretty good. And then the

1:20:24 next competition comes up that the microphone goes out. And so they like, Hey, you have to have him

1:20:29 go to the main stage. So Leo looks at me. There's like 10,000 people. One of the best grapplers in

1:20:35 the world, super nervous to walk down to the main stage. Here's his testimony gets done and is like,

1:20:42 this is what I want to do. So, you know, I think God's just raising a load of us up at the time.

1:20:47 I know for you, well, you'll be in your journey. I mean, this is just, you know,

1:20:51 it's just becoming all things to all men. Like Paul said, in a bank skate park on the mats.

1:20:57 Just leaving it. That sounds like a great place to roll. So if I find myself out there in California,

1:21:01 I may have to run by quick story, though, I also have a jiu-jitsu nickname. It might not be as

1:21:06 cool as polar bear, but I had been training for about five or six months. So white belt,

1:21:10 very, very green. You know, I'm 30, 31 years old. And Andre Galval comes to our school to do a

1:21:15 seminar considered to be one of the greatest ever. We're talking top three greatest geek

1:21:20 competitors ever. He's got a super fight coming up with Gordon Ryan, no geek at ADCC this year.

1:21:24 But it's at the end of the seminar. It's after three hours, right? And for the last two hours of my

1:21:28 life, I've been a blur. I don't even know the starting positions. I'm so confused. And he starts

1:21:32 pointing at people to have to come out and roll with them, right? And so he points to this guy,

1:21:36 he points to that guy. And I'm taking video of everybody because I want them to have video

1:21:40 of when they're rolling with one of the greatest of all time with any points at me. And I'm like,

1:21:44 Oh, no, like, I suck. I'm a white belt. And this guy's great. And as I walk out there to slap

1:21:50 bump, he goes, Oh, you look like a Viking. And because my beard was a little longer,

1:21:56 my hair was all over the place. And from that day on, guys at the gym,

1:22:00 I call me Viking. And the thing about it is, is it's like, you better be pretty good. It's like,

1:22:04 if you're going to wear a pink G and you're a guy, you better be a killer. Same thing if you're

1:22:08 going to walk around with a nickname, like Viking, you better go to class at least once a week.

1:22:12 So it's kind of the thing just trying to live up to that name is kind of where I'm at. But Brian,

1:22:17 we've covered a we've covered a lot of ground this conversation. But I want to end with this.

1:22:20 I do a segment towards the end of my interviews. It's called what would you say to someone that said?

1:22:24 And so what I'm going to do is I'm going to say, what would you say to someone that said? And I'm

1:22:28 going to fill in the blank. And you have 30 seconds maximum to give me your answer regardless of the

1:22:34 subject. Okay, so this is our lightning round. Okay, so you up for it? Yeah. Okay, let's get into

1:22:39 it. We'll ease into it here. Okay. What would you say to someone that said Tony Hawk is the

1:22:44 greatest skateboarder of all time? I could say I agree with that to the degree of what he's done.

1:22:50 Yeah, I could put other people more technical better. But yeah, I could, I could agree with that.

1:22:56 Okay. I say Mark Gonzalez and Rodney Mullen, what they brought to us, but I could say Tony. Yeah.

1:23:02 Yeah. Classic burn quiz. There's a lot of other names. All right. Keep going.

1:23:06 What would you say to someone that said even Christ couldn't fix my wife?

1:23:14 Well, he died for us. So really the birds on here, Christ, all of the charity gave

1:23:19 himself for here. So Christ can, but in her stubness, if she hears his voice and rejects it,

1:23:25 if she's not one of his sheep, then that's on here. Yeah. Absolutely. All right. Next one here.

1:23:30 What would you say to someone that said the only football is American football?

1:23:35 Um, I'd say get this guy some coffee and some water because you don't even really use your

1:23:41 blood and that low for bread thing. Um, you know what? Football players though, over here,

1:23:46 they're tough. They're not like, you know, soccer players back there. Sadly, I'll tell you this.

1:23:51 Do you know where the name is soccer comes from? I don't guess I do know. It's the dumbest thing

1:23:56 ever. An American called it associate football and out of associate. They just got the word soccer.

1:24:02 And I'm like, that's it. You know, that's, that's it. So yeah, we're going to blame that on someone

1:24:07 from Canada because there's no way an American came up with that. All right. Next one here. What

1:24:10 would you say to someone that said Christianity and the skateboarding community can't mix? There's

1:24:15 too much darkness in that lifestyle. Um, skateboarding is neutral. You know, it's whatever it is. It's

1:24:21 um, influence. They say music and skating are the two most influential things in America. They

1:24:27 influence from the coasts. So I would say, um, again, become more things to all men. The skateboard

1:24:33 itself is nothing. And I'm going to use that, whatever's in my hand. God used prostitutes,

1:24:39 tax collectors, you know, skating is in a sin. So use that platform to reach people like the

1:24:44 maths, like everything else we're doing. All right. Next one here. What would you say to someone

1:24:48 that said the Beatles are super overrated? My mom used to see the Beatles in the, in the cavern.

1:24:57 My sister's friends and some of their family members. And what they did at the time, I would

1:25:03 say go watch that new show that just came out on Disney. Paul McCartney. I did not realize it.

1:25:08 It is like Mozart or someone. It is shocking. It is shocking. And I would say, no, what they did

1:25:13 at the right time, their American influence from buddy Holly and blues and all the rest.

1:25:17 And there's no way they're too famous. You know, and I've always kind of preferred them to Elvis,

1:25:22 my wife Elvis and the Beatles. You know, I don't even listen to it that much because they're so

1:25:26 good. I don't need to think about it. You know, it's just like, I feel like I should be talking

1:25:30 to your wife right now because she's clearly the one that's right. Elvis is far superior

1:25:35 to those silly little weird, hair-cutted Beatles. But you know what, we'll move on.

1:25:38 I know this ever right one song.

1:25:40 Probably. Wow. This is my interview. This is my interview, Brian. I'm the one that asks the

1:25:45 questions. Do you know who's middle name is Presley? What? Do you have a son whose middle name is

1:25:50 Presley? I don't. But I probably should have another one just so I could do that. Yeah, I do.

1:25:55 Dakota, Presley, some now. Okay, that might be the dopest name I've ever heard for a kid. I

1:26:00 automatically am super disappointed in my choices. God, okay, thanks for, you know, bringing me

1:26:05 down here towards the end. All right, I just got a few more questions. You're sorry, middle

1:26:08 name's Lennon, right? Hey, I might as well take a dime. No, no, we're not going to edit this part

1:26:17 out. I don't know that I'm blending this part, get out to the world. All right, just a few more

1:26:20 for you, Brian. What would you say to someone that said, I'm scared to skateboard. I'm afraid

1:26:24 I'll get hurt. I would say I'm cautious to put your feet over the bolts, knees over your feet,

1:26:32 hips over your knees, get a good base, maybe put a helmet on. But yeah, you can learn. But

1:26:38 if you're over 30, 40, trying to impress the kids, guys, get low to the ground, get something big

1:26:43 because too many dads with dad bods wreck their legs. You slam bad if you don't know what you're

1:26:49 doing. But go to the skate park. Someone help you out. They love it. Right. All right, a couple

1:26:53 more left here. What would you say to someone that said, I'm scared to train jujitsu. I'm afraid

1:26:57 I'll get hurt. I'd say you should be scared not to train jujitsu because you have five takedowns,

1:27:04 a couple of jokes. I mean, you know, you know, the first time we got on the mat and someone

1:27:07 put some pressure on your face, you think you're going to die? Right. I don't even notice anymore.

1:27:12 I get knee on bellied and that whole saying I'm a loving on a fighter. The fact that you are a

1:27:16 lover should be why you train jujitsu. Guys, Kelly Slater said it. Jujitsu is the first sport

1:27:22 you should put your kids in. Not because it's a sport because it's a self defense mechanism.

1:27:26 I love it. It's so relaxing. It's so peaceful. It's a family unit and go to jujitsu some people.

1:27:34 Yeah, absolutely. All right, man. Last question of the day. What would you say to someone that said,

1:27:38 I can't figure out how to fix my marriage. I'm desperate.

1:27:41 Well, Jesus told them Moses permitted you to divorce because of your hardness of heart.

1:27:52 And if we are Christians, we don't have a heart heart. We have the Holy Spirit. And with God,

1:27:57 all things are possible. And God said to the son of God brings together, let no man separate.

1:28:02 So I would say for you, our problem in America is we've been raised on Disney. We have a mindset

1:28:08 that life is about me. I'm going to live here. We're going to have this much sex, make this much

1:28:12 money, enjoy this much downtime, do as much jujitsu, white picket fence. And God says, no, no, seek

1:28:18 face the kingdom. I would tell you, die to self like Jesus did for his wife, go into battle for

1:28:25 that wife, cover it like Christ loved the church, and start believing for a miracle. Because if you

1:28:31 are 20 right now 25 30, you're like, what is this marriage thing? Yeah, you guys related and all

1:28:37 the good things when you met, she looks hot, she looks beautiful. I can't wait for the matting

1:28:41 day. Well, you know what? Now there's diapers. Now there's a boss. Now he's trying to go to jujitsu.

1:28:45 You're relating in the chaos. Keep going. Love will never fail. I love that we talked about men.

1:28:52 Guys, stand tall, fight for your marriage. Because if you trust Christ, if you're not running towards

1:28:58 sin, it will always prevail. God brought one woman to Adam, and she was a standard of beauty,

1:29:04 and he actually put man out the way at that time. So I just, I tell a lot of guys this,

1:29:08 die to self, get in the word, and commit yourself to here. And the Bible says, live with your wives

1:29:15 in an understanding way. Maybe she's mad at the church. Maybe she's mad at you. Maybe she's

1:29:20 walking towards sin. But God wants to use you to show her the love of Christ. Focus on that.

1:29:26 Don't bail because it's never really over. You're still going to be each other's life to some degree.

1:29:30 So right, man, I love it. I think that's a great place to leave it. But that is all for me. Is there

1:29:34 anything else you want to get off your chest? You know, I just love jumping in and being as free

1:29:38 as this into the Americans. Listen, who still think I'm speaking in tongues, I'm not English people.

1:29:44 You do a good job because even Oklahoma 20 years ago, people are more like,

1:29:48 watching my accent, like what's he doing? We need to engage, jump in. I say English people are more

1:29:55 like that dry humor kind of what Ted Lasso. So I love this stuff. You know, just I'm here to put

1:30:01 the truth out people to hear, but if it relates to my life and the things we love, praise God,

1:30:07 he used that, you know, to get to people. So that's great. That's why we're here, man. Well,

1:30:11 Brian Sumner, thank you for coming on Undaunted Life of Man's podcast. Thanks for having me,

1:30:15 but I'll see you on the max. God bless. There you go, guys. I hope you enjoyed my time with Brian

1:30:19 Sumner. But before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost at Undaunted Life

1:30:23 or Mission is equipping me into pushback darkness with content that for just spiritual, mental and

1:30:27 physical resilience. So here are the links I've got for you today. I've got a link to Brian's website.

1:30:31 I've got a link to his I am second film, his Instagram, and also his book never fails a 30 day

1:30:36 marriage devotional. All right, guys. Thanks so much for listening to this show. We do appreciate

1:30:39 it. Wherever you listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five star review.

1:30:44 If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, you shoot me an email to info

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1:31:01 thank demand August Burns read for allowing us to use our music for our content. The music on this

1:31:05 podcast is our song cutting the ties, which taught their 10th anniversary re recording of their album

1:31:09 leveler. The links are in the description. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing

1:31:15 back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.

1:31:35 I'm your host, you're your favorite voice.