BERT SORIN | Strength is a Family Business (Ep. 392)

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1:07 ♪ Start your eyes ♪♪♪

1:10 ♪ When you're frustrated, start ♪♪♪

1:13 ♪ When you want ♪♪♪

1:15 ♪ When you're starting ♪♪♪

1:18 This is a Daunted Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host Kyle Thompson.

1:23 Let's get into it.

1:24 Our guys today, we've got a special guest on the podcast. His name is Bert Soren.

1:27 So he is the president and co-owner of Soren X Exercise Equipment.

1:30 That is a business that was founded by his father, Richard Soren, in 1980.

1:34 So Soren X has been making some of the most durable strength training equipment in the industry for, like, four decades.

1:39 So they've been around a really, really long time.

1:41 So the gear that they make is utilized by athletes, service members, students around the world.

1:46 And guys, you're going to recognize a lot of their equipment.

1:49 If you're watching any of the Bulls highlights from their training sessions back in the 90s, Soren X equipment was in there.

1:55 If you look at stuff like in Jocko Willings' gym or Cam Haines' gym or Joe Rogan's gym, they do that stuff.

1:59 They make literally some of the best products, maybe the best workout equipment products on the entire planet.

2:06 They do a tremendous job.

2:07 He's also been a barbell trainer for most of his life.

2:10 And we get into this on the podcast.

2:11 But he's a four-time D1 All-American track and field athlete.

2:14 He threw the hammer, the 35-pound weight throw.

2:16 He's the SEC champion, former record holder in the weight throw at the Olympic trials.

2:20 He's competed in the Highland Games.

2:23 He's an ambassador of the Global War on Terrorism Memorial Foundation.

2:27 That's actually an organization that leads the effort to plan, fund, design, and build the Global War on Terrorism Memorial at the National Mall in D.C.

2:34 And guys, this is one of those interviews that I tell you about from time to time that happens.

2:37 It's from the very beginning, I knew that we were going to talk about most of the things I wanted to talk about.

2:42 But then we're going to talk about a whole bunch of other stuff.

2:44 And so if I just look at my notes, it's going to be one of those things where it's like,

2:47 "Well, yeah, we talked about that, but we talked about so many other things.

2:50 Like, we got off on so many tangents."

2:52 It was so exciting to talk about it, but we did talk about the founding of Sorenex.

2:57 You know, his dad was a school teacher, but then he was also building playground equipment.

3:01 But then he wanted to build, like, really customizable, really durable exercise equipment.

3:05 He wanted it to be bomb-proof and kind of when that really took off and when he started getting into places.

3:09 But also for him, when did he become a part of the business?

3:12 Like, when did he get into it?

3:14 You know, he became a hammer thrower, but his track to get there was not really the direct trap.

3:19 It was a pretty circuitous route to get to that moment to where he was doing those things.

3:23 But the lessons he learned along the way, like that guy developed a lot of resilience along his life

3:28 because he wasn't coddled.

3:29 You know, he had coaches that basically gave him tongue lashings.

3:32 And he had other people that basically dressed him down and he used that as fuel throughout his life to get better.

3:38 So we talked about Sorenex and how it's expanded over time.

3:40 We talked about how he went from being a collegiate athlete to becoming an Olympic athlete,

3:44 you know, and not, you know, being able to do all the things he wanted to do with that.

3:48 But then becoming a Highland gains athlete, we talked about hunting.

3:51 But then on some of the other tangents we got into, we talked about, you know, parenting in modern society

3:56 and how a lot of parents kind of keep these, I don't know, I guess the easiest way to say

4:01 was they kind of keep struggle away from their kids.

4:03 And they think they're doing their kids a service that they're actually doing a mighty disservice.

4:07 We talked about, you know, John Eldridge and some things that he learned from wild at heart and how that applies

4:11 to how not only he does his life and his business, but how he deals with his family.

4:15 We talked about the lack of rights and passage in our modern society and the lack of kids that are encouraged to be strong

4:21 because of some, you know, made up thing called toxic masculinity or something like that.

4:26 Guys, we went everywhere this conversation.

4:28 And obviously you can see in how long it was.

4:30 We spent a lot of time getting into everything.

4:31 But then I asked them some pretty good questions at the end with my, what would you say to someone that said segment?

4:35 And so guys, I really, really enjoyed my time with Bert.

4:37 I think it's going to be well worth your time.

4:39 So without further ado, let's get into it.

4:41 Bert Soren, welcome to a Daunton life of man's podcast.

4:44 Thank you so much for having me.

4:46 I appreciate Kyle.

4:47 Well, dude, we were having so much fun off air.

4:48 I had to go ahead and hit the record button because I didn't want us to say all the cool stuff before we got to the audience.

4:53 But there's a lot of ground to cover today and there's a lot of really interesting things that we can talk about.

4:58 But one of the prominent things about you is really your relationship with your dad and how that's kind of like weaved into a

5:05 lot of the things that you've done as an adult.

5:07 So to kind of set the stage, and I did set the stage a little bit in the intro.

5:10 But in 1980, your dad, Richard is a school teacher, but that wasn't his be all in doll.

5:16 He had a dream to build the best exercise equipment in the world.

5:19 And in 1980, guys, if you can remember back that far, like there wasn't a whole lot of great equipment out there.

5:23 You couldn't customize it.

5:24 It wasn't very durable, but your dad's like, I don't want it to just be customizable and durable.

5:29 I want it to be bomb proof.

5:30 So we'll get more into kind of how that's affected your life, Bert, but let's start there.

5:34 Let's start with kind of your dad, you know, just kind of, you know, tinkering with stuff to try to make the best exercise equipment on the globe.

5:40 Awesome.

5:41 Well, first of all, you need to be a PR rep for us because you nailed it.

5:45 You have all you got, you know, the story.

5:47 I can read.

5:48 I can read decent.

5:49 Okay.

5:49 And my brain does remember things from time to time.

5:52 So I appreciate.

5:52 Yeah.

5:53 No, so it's interesting on our hunting trip that I have with with pots in Missouri.

5:59 We were driving back and we were just talking about life and the formidable years of like really when you're formatted as a person, when you're, your hard drive is kind of written.

6:09 And that's, I would say that's that six through 12 year age group.

6:14 That's when your view on the world is somewhat established and that's when I'm obviously being a parent is so important during that time.

6:22 And so a lot of the things that that guided his life and the reasons why he did certain things were really formed during that time.

6:31 And the strange thing was his, both of his parents worked very, very hard.

6:35 His, his mother, her mom died when she was 10 years old.

6:39 So she and her siblings and I believe their father died soon thereafter.

6:43 So she and her siblings were kind of on their own with the older sister taking care of them.

6:48 I wanted to say like 14 or 15 years old.

6:50 It was crazy.

6:50 So it was during that time.

6:52 Super hard work and so she was just a hard drive in person.

6:58 Well, that was passed on to my dad and he was an only child, but one of the rules were you don't go out of the yard.

7:05 And so, you know, I hate to say it, but it was kind of a crappy childhood because he's looking two and three doors down and kids playing in the yard doing sports and all this other stuff where he wasn't allowed outside of the yard.

7:17 So I asked him, I said, well, you didn't ever have that conversation to the why he goes, oh, you didn't ask her why that was just it.

7:24 So I thought that was just an interesting way to look and I'll get to the reasons.

7:28 So because of that really TV and movies and especially movies of the era, those big epic movies that the African queen and like, you know, all the big, you know, King Kong and stuff like that, he would see those movies on TV.

7:45 And that would give him like a thirst for adventure and for that heroism.

7:50 Well, he also saw Hercules, that was the first movie you ever saw, Hercules Unchained.

7:55 So he realized that being strong was something that he could go and do.

8:00 He was in the hospital as a kid.

8:03 His dad brought it.

8:04 He was bad at reading.

8:05 His dad brought him some hunting and fishing magazines and also Ironman magazines or I'm sorry, strength and health.

8:12 So he started putting those aspects in his head.

8:15 So when he was by himself in his yard, he realized I could lift weights by myself.

8:22 And so he started writing that narrative of his life very early of I need to be self-sustaining.

8:29 I need to be capable.

8:30 I need to be strong.

8:32 All of these things, and he of course got bullied and, you know, like everyone else probably during that age.

8:38 And he told me a story, what I guess nails like carpentry nails were like currency in the neighborhood because you like build stuff with them, right?

8:45 You can build forts and stuff.

8:46 He said this older, older kid would steal his nails and he said it just drove him crazy.

8:50 And the older kid would make him put the kid in a wagon and push him around the street and then steal his nails.

8:58 And he goes like, so all I wanted to do is defend myself.

9:01 So I lifted weights at home until I could defend my nails, you know.

9:06 And so, you know, he had no older brother or anything to defend him.

9:09 So he's like, I just realized at that point, I had to get stronger.

9:13 So he lifted weights and then he realized, well, I want to, I need to be able to build weights because I don't have the money for it.

9:22 Because dad was a bartender, you know, mom was a matriety at a country club.

9:27 And so they didn't have a lot of cash.

9:29 And so he would, you know, pilfer railroad ties from, from like down the railroad and build Olympic platforms and learn how to build things.

9:38 And that was the struggle started early on with him.

9:41 So to understand kind of where we went and why you kind of need to know the backstory in some way.

9:46 And so he loved lifting weights and loved getting stronger and loved defending his nails and loved that, you know, when they started the presidential fitness test back in the day,

9:58 he couldn't do a pull up.

9:59 He felt like he was the weakest kid in class.

10:02 And a year later, he broke the school record with him.

10:04 And like that was one of those stories of, oh, I just put effort towards this undaunted effort towards it and things start happening positively in my life.

10:13 So that occurred and then which earned him a scholarship.

10:18 He was the first kid in his high school to ever receive an athletic scholarship to throw the discus.

10:23 He never, he never tied together that the discus prowess and his weightlifting had anything to do with each other.

10:29 I said, I was laughing.

10:31 I go, wait, so you didn't understand how being super strong would make this, you know, and he goes, no, never really trained for it.

10:37 I just knew that when my clean went up, I just threw far and I never understood why that happened.

10:41 And I go very, very interesting.

10:43 So anyway, that is so he was building weightlifting equipment and solving those problems since he was a small child.

10:50 So that became one of the constants in his life was physical effort and capability.

10:57 And that that became a really a kind of a guiding rod there as he, as he progressed and went to college and, you know, through the discus and then became a coach, became a teacher and was started building weightlifting equipment and building playgrounds actually back in the 70s.

11:17 So building weightlifting equipment starting in 1980 and as the story goes, he and my mom got divorced on this too.

11:24 But like the girl, he was dating at the time, she says, Richard, you're killing yourself.

11:27 You can't be a teacher and run two businesses.

11:31 And she's like, you got to quit one or I'm leaving.

11:34 And so I was like, what'd you do?

11:35 He's like, well, I just kept doing him and she left.

11:37 And so he later said, you guys, oh, she was 100% right.

11:42 I was just hard-headed and didn't want to be challenged.

11:44 And so he eventually retired from teaching after eight years, tried to run a store and playgrounds and equipment at the times.

11:50 Again, that was a little bit too much.

11:52 So went back to his first love, which was strength conditioning and weightlifting.

11:56 And so, but at the time, you know, there wasn't big, strong equipment that was highly customizable, which was made for athletes.

12:04 That just wasn't a thing.

12:05 So he was kind of the one of the first on the blocks to do that.

12:09 You know, their hammer strength was just popping off at that time.

12:12 And that was a whole different animal.

12:14 There are a couple other companies out there that were doing some things, but what he was doing was different.

12:20 And I don't believe any of the other companies were necessarily run by strength athletes at the time.

12:27 So that's how he started it.

12:29 And it was never meant to be a large business.

12:33 It was never meant to employ 200 people.

12:36 It was never like none of that was ever the plan.

12:38 There was never a business plan even written.

12:41 It was, I love the world of strength.

12:45 The world of strength has given me so much.

12:48 How do I give back to that world and be relevant in a world that I that I hold in high regard?

12:55 So that was really the catalyst and the driver of Sorenex since day one.

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13:29 The there's so much there that I want to get into will you mention something at the very, very beginning that I want to kind of go back to.

13:36 So I'm just going to kind of blow up my cadence of questions from the beginning.

13:40 I'm doing it intentionally to blow up your cadence, by the way.

13:43 That's great.

13:43 I'm great with my entire interview going to crap in the first 10 minutes.

13:47 No, because this is great.

13:47 We need this to happen.

13:49 So you mentioned a very, very important time period in a child's life in a young boy's life, the age of like six to 12.

13:55 Right.

13:55 And so one thing that I've become obsessed with Bert, especially since I have, you know, a two year old and eight month old or whatever is writes a passage because in this country, we don't really do that.

14:04 There are certain sects of certain religions that kind of do that where they say, okay, you're a man now and here's what the community expects of you and here's the good things about you.

14:12 And here's the things you're going to struggle with.

14:13 And here's that, but for the most part, everyone gets to self initialize or initiate rather into manhood.

14:19 And so it's like they get to decide like, Oh, I just had sex for the first time.

14:22 I'm a man.

14:22 Oh, I just moved out of the house.

14:23 I'm a man or, Oh, I just, you know, got a scholarship to go to school.

14:26 Whatever the thing is, they get to pick it.

14:28 It's not something that is developed now and certainly in this gets into an even bigger conversation about the overall idea of toxic masculinity that if you are strong, not just in your body, but also in your mind and in your way of operating in the world, that that is somehow bad and deleterious to society.

14:47 But to go back to, you know, six to 12 year olds, what is, I guess, is your message to dads out there that want their kids to grow up to be good men.

14:57 You know, godly men, strong men, whatever to in terms of the things they can do from that age of like six to 12, because a lot of dads don't even think about it until their kid becomes a teenager.

15:07 And it's not that it's too late, but it's like, man, you're going to be missing some foundation there.

15:11 I 100% agree with you.

15:14 You have to look at it early on.

15:16 And I think it could be, I wouldn't say inception, but it has to be seen the kids have to see it happening.

15:22 They have to be pushed into it or pulled.

15:24 I shouldn't say pushed, pulled into it. So there has to already be a community and a culture of that occurring.

15:31 You can't just say, go out and do hard things.

15:33 Okay, dad, what are you doing that's hard?

15:36 Right.

15:37 You know, I grew up watching my dad train in the garage gym.

15:42 Insane effort was put forth, you know, blood squirting out places and passing out and the whole thing.

15:51 So I grew up seeing that an extreme amount of effort and sacrifice was a good thing.

15:56 That was held in high regard, straining and struggling and cheering on your teammates and being there and getting some crap.

16:04 If you didn't show up for your training partner, like guys grown men being [inaudible] off when their training partner didn't show up.

16:10 It's not like, all right, buddy, I know you had something to do.

16:12 It's like, no, I counted on you today.

16:14 Where were you?

16:16 And I wouldn't say fights, but definite strong words were had, but you realize early on, okay, you got to count on each other.

16:23 Right.

16:23 And we're going to do this thing that's extraordinary and it's hard and it's dangerous.

16:27 And dangerous things, I believe Jordan Peterson, like dangerous things done safely is how you build confidence within young people.

16:36 And I remember having those little tests all the time as a kid, whether it was, I mean, my dad since he did such a good job of that with me.

16:47 Now, again, I didn't live with him.

16:48 I only saw him on Wednesdays and every other weekend for a long time and I was like young, but when I showed up, I have to admit.

16:55 There was always something planned that was a challenge in some way to make me better.

17:01 I remember, if you know what a climbing deer stand is, it's like one kind of ratchets itself up a tree.

17:05 Well, if you ratchet it up a tree, it's like a pull up dip, pull up dip.

17:09 I didn't like heights and I still don't like heights, but I remember going there and he'd have the stand set up on the tree and I had a little orange flag surveyors tape and that was my record.

17:19 And as I would get more and more brave to go higher and higher the tree, I was allowed to move that that ribbon up higher and higher and I would get little prizes associated with like new PRs.

17:29 That was like seven, eight years old.

17:31 And I remember the first time I deadlifted double body weight.

17:35 That was the right of passage.

17:37 It's a sore and man, or male.

17:39 The double body deadlift was 112 pounds.

17:44 That means I weighed 56 pounds in second or third grade.

17:48 And I remember, I think I've said it multiple times other podcasts.

17:53 Our teacher said, you know, we're supposed to write the happiest day of your life.

17:56 And I remember standing in front of the class saying the happiest day of my life is when I deadlifted double body weight as an eight year old.

18:02 And I remember the kids, the kids, even the teachers like, I don't even know what you're saying.

18:06 Right.

18:06 What does that mean?

18:07 But I gave like the progression.

18:08 I was like, well, I did 88 pounds first because we were using kilo plates.

18:12 And you know, and I look now and I'm like, wow, just that experience turned on different parts of my brain in attentiveness to remember.

18:20 I remember 88 pounds was my first time I did because that was a 10 kilo plate on both sides.

18:25 And then there was this and there's this and I remembered like bumping up and learning how to look inside myself and say, I think I got a little bit more or no bueno that we're done.

18:35 Like that was enough.

18:36 And I think those early, early struggles and just micro struggles of learning that or building things with him or cutting my finger with my one of my first knives that I think I earned a knife for climbing up the tree.

18:50 So I got a Swiss army knife and I cut my finger with it when I was building a fort, you know, because, you know, you're a sore in your knives have to be ridiculously razor sharp because a dull knife is more dangerous than a sharp one.

19:01 Yeah.

19:01 And I cut my finger and I remember walking into the house and pops is lifting in the garage and I'm thinking like I'm eight years old outside with a razor sharp knife screwing around in the yard like that was fine.

19:14 Okay. Yeah, you might want to cut myself sure eventually, but I remember walking and I'm just pouring blood out of my hand and pops handled it so well.

19:23 He looks over and he's like, he goes inside.

19:26 He goes, I was freaking out because I saw blood everywhere.

19:28 He goes, but I knew if I freaked out that you'd freak out.

19:31 And so he goes, all right, daddy will be there in a minute and he goes and he turned around and finished what he was doing like the rest of the set that he was lifting in the garage and walked over and calmly goes, okay, buddy, let's see what you got going on.

19:44 I stayed super calm, but I look and go form the formidable gears of me staying stoic and calm in an in an emergency has probably saved my life a lot of times.

19:57 And so I look back and go, oh, that's there was some pain, but really a sharp knife cut isn't that painful.

20:04 It's just scary and it taught me don't be afraid.

20:08 Handle your business, stay in your head, stay stoic, stay just stay connected and controlled.

20:14 There is a process to fix this.

20:16 We'll fix it.

20:17 Let's move on with life.

20:18 And so those things early on were enormous, but there is always a wow, you'll be a man now if you do this.

20:27 And there was like 50 things during my life, you know, is all those things are like, hey, you know, you know, two years old, we'd go hunting or fishing, we'd be walking back and he'd act like he was lost.

20:38 Because our bird, which way do we go back?

20:40 And I would have to make those choices of which ray on the road we were going.

20:44 Now a lot of times I made the wrong choice and he kind of bumped me the right way, but I was starting to get confidence of, oh, I need to pay attention when I walk through the woods.

20:52 I need to I can make choices.

20:54 My my actions and my choices matter to the to the livelihood and the the success of my family.

21:04 And that's a huge thing. I think these days, kids, their actions don't have an impact on their family.

21:11 They're tall and I guilty of it often myself.

21:15 You know, I was talking to my dad the other day.

21:18 I said, you know, life is so busy.

21:20 I tell my kids, get get your shoes, get this, get that, move, move, move, move, because we're doing so many things.

21:26 And I go, gosh, have I really recently put the success of our family in their hands and say, you know, if you don't unload the dish,

21:34 washer, we're not eating dinner tonight, that there's no ramifications.

21:39 There's no like real thing there.

21:41 And I saw it with a friend of mine.

21:43 He treated his kid the exact same, whether the kid was doing well in school or bad or, you know, there was no change.

21:51 And I understand unconditional love, but unconditional response, I don't believe is a realistic thing to this world.

22:01 For instance, it was back again, sorry, I have a lot of stories, but he was pops his best friend and they were they were training that day.

22:09 The fella showed up to train.

22:11 They're supposed to train at five o'clock for 30s like, Hey, I got a, I got a balance out of here and pops like you just got here.

22:16 Well, we got a train.

22:17 He goes, no, I got to go pick up so and so from school.

22:18 He goes, well, you got to pick him up after school.

22:20 He goes, well, because he had detention.

22:21 He goes, well, why do you have detention?

22:23 He goes, oh, because he did X, Y and Z.

22:24 He goes, screw that, let him walk.

22:27 Yeah, why, why does all of a sudden that on you?

22:31 Why does he do something bad and then you have to change your life and work around it for something that he did bad and he still gets to go home and need a nice warm dinner and get a ride from school.

22:41 And now it's everyone else's problem, but hits.

22:44 And it was interesting and that kid had some issues for about 10 or 15 years until he finally grew up and had some hard stuff happen.

22:54 And now he's a good kid, but you look, you go, gosh, till about 25 or 30 that I watched that kid who I love.

23:01 dearly and his dad loved him dearly.

23:02 But those, those unconditional results.

23:07 I mean, I knew if I screwed up like that, my butt was walking.

23:10 It was up to me to figure out how to use like, you know, expect to self rescue kind of scenario.

23:16 So I knew I didn't want to have to call my dad and tell him I was a not going to be there is I'm figuring out how to get home and I dare wouldn't ask him to help me out because, hey, you're the dude that screwed up.

23:27 So you kind of keep it in line.

23:29 So those are a lot of little things that I saw early on that were so, so valuable that I unfortunately don't believe are as common these days.

23:38 When I think a society puts a lot of pressure on us to Connell and then everyone just kind of goes with it and they like acquiesce.

23:44 I remember, I think it was a, it was a, oh gosh, he played for the, the Steelers.

23:47 It was a Harrison, James Harrison, his boys were in like youth football and they didn't win the tournament, but they still got trophies.

23:55 And he told his boys, go give those trophies back to the people that ran the tournament.

23:58 And so he literally made his sons walk back up and give the people that ran the tournament, the trophies back.

24:03 And I remember the, the collective population of the United States exploded at how horrible of a father he was for, you know, basically doing this to his children.

24:12 And all I'm doing is sitting there thinking, no, they need to know that like winners get things losers don't like, you know, winners focus on winning losers focus on, on the winners and like that's the attitude that you have to get from that perspective

24:27 and that young.

24:28 And a lot of kids don't get that.

24:29 And then you also see these pictures like these dads, they find out that their, you know, 14 year old son was bullying a 12 year old at school.

24:37 And so they take their 14 year old to a local boxing gym.

24:40 They put him in the ring with a kid that's two years older than him.

24:43 And you know, that, that kid kind of, you know, torches them a little bit, you know, touches them up.

24:47 And they're like, oh, this is child abuse.

24:48 This is terrible.

24:49 But it's like, wait a minute, the dad knew the consequences of if his son continued in that action, right?

24:54 As a 14 year old picking on a 12 year old that's weaker and smaller than him, he put him in there with a kid that he was weaker and smaller than.

25:01 And it didn't go well for him.

25:02 And that kid will remember that for the rest of his life.

25:05 And it's not going to be this thing that's going to melt his brain.

25:07 But there's so many dads, Bert.

25:09 Like it's exactly what you said earlier on.

25:11 It's about pulling your kid, not pushing your kid.

25:13 Because I know a ton of guys, they want their kids to be in shape.

25:16 They want their kids to be well read.

25:18 And they want their kids to be godly.

25:20 They want all those things.

25:21 But they don't exercise.

25:24 They don't ever read line whenever they do things.

25:26 They don't do hard stuff.

25:27 They don't read any books at all.

25:29 They don't pray.

25:30 They don't treat churches if it's a priority.

25:32 And then it's like, guys, how do you put the wrong ingredients into the gumbo and expect it to turn out to be something else?

25:39 Like it's not like, where do you think is going to happen?

25:42 Like if they're going to be a good person, it's going to be by accident.

25:45 Yes, yes, or they're going to have some sort of input that is kind of out of your control that if they turn out to be a good person, it's either going to be by accident or you just lucked out into someone they looked up to happen to come into their life.

26:02 And man, that's like driving with your eyes closed.

26:06 To me, that sounds terrifying.

26:08 Yeah, it might work out okay, but it's not something that you should like operate and do.

26:12 Yeah, I'm not banking on that situation.

26:14 No, you're exactly right.

26:16 And, you know, and I think the whole bullying and kids fighting thing, I have multiple probably multifaceted view on, I mean, bullying, I think it's horrible, but here's the thing, bullies are real life.

26:31 There are bullies and that aren't going to necessarily pick your pocket and, you know, beat you up on the street corner.

26:36 But there's bullies in every instance in life, whether it's on cyberbullying, whether it's employers, there's employees, there's coworkers, there's bullying all over the world.

26:50 So I hate to say this is a probably sound horrible and then out of context and I'll get canceled and whatever.

26:57 I think bullies are a vital part of the world for people to interface with at some point in their life because they are out there.

27:06 Now do I wish they were all gone?

27:08 Yes, but here's the fact they're not.

27:10 So to learn how to deal with bullies as early as you can in life is a really good skill to have.

27:18 I personally learned how to a stand up to some of them when I was a kid and I was bullied as a kid.

27:25 One of the kids that I stood up to, it was wild.

27:28 Later, I was in second grade, first or second grade, real big tall kid.

27:33 He was just a monster and he was a big kid and I didn't know it at the time.

27:37 He was pretty poor at the time.

27:41 I think he had some pretty hard stuff going on at home.

27:44 You don't know that when you're a second grader.

27:46 You just know you're terrified of this guy.

27:47 And he was pushing everyone out of line and doing the whole thing in the water line and I stood up to him and I was a lot smaller.

27:53 And he backed off and I didn't think anything of it.

27:56 We were seniors in high school.

27:58 And he walked up to me and he goes, "You know Bert, I always respected you.

28:02 You are the only one who stood up to me when we were kids."

28:04 And we were cool for 12-15 years.

28:08 And I saw him when we were 35 years old.

28:10 Still, see him in the post office.

28:12 Hey bud, how's it going?

28:13 Like, we're cool.

28:14 And he even was still psyched that.

28:16 And so I think in some way I taught him something.

28:20 I taught myself something, but then also I look at it later through mature eyes and I feel for him.

28:26 I go, "What?"

28:27 Because hurt people hurt people.

28:29 What was he going through that maybe I should have even been more cognizant to see older than I could have helped him out.

28:36 And I feel good because I was always cool with him later in life when we kind of more were the same size and the whole deal.

28:44 And I look and go, "Gosh, that guy needed some love at that time.

28:48 He was just acting out in that way."

28:52 But I also hate to say I think when they made it a huge, huge deal for little kids to fight at school as in like they're kicked out forever or they get a rest or whatever.

29:03 I think they screwed up the system because I personally think let second and third graders fight because they won't fight the same person again, probably ever.

29:13 I'm not saying just let them duke it out, but if they get in a fight, don't make it a big deal.

29:19 Don't put it on the news.

29:21 You kind of have to learn how to fend for yourself and then to not be afraid in confrontation to have some courage and to not be afraid if you get roughed up a little bit.

29:32 Because really, how bad are you going to get hurt in second grade?

29:35 No, dude, I'm with you and it goes back to something you were talking about earlier with, "Okay, there are bullies no matter what." So let's say you are protected by the teacher, the administrator, your parents from bullies your entire life.

29:45 And then all of a sudden you have a job where the CEO is the bully.

29:49 And now what do you do?

29:51 You've got decades of inexperience dealing with difficult people and it's like I grew up in a decently rough town and we were in a rough neighborhood and moved to a nicer neighborhood, but I got a knife pulled on me walking home from school in fifth grade.

30:05 And I had to figure out how to get around that situation and it's like, "No, I'm not going to force my kids into situations where they may actually have something like that."

30:15 But at the same time, it's those little things that you grow a little bit because me growing up, I was the bully at some point and I was bullied.

30:22 And at the times when I was bullied, I was somewhat bullied mercilessly.

30:25 Now it's a little different today because I could leave school and the bullies would stay there, right?

30:30 Because I could go home and the bullies weren't following me.

30:32 But now we give our little kids these little things, these smartphones, and the bullies can follow them around and, you know, bother them until two or three in the morning and then your kid doesn't get sleep, isn't healthy, you know, this, that, and the other thing.

30:42 But again, we're not doing the next generation of service by keeping them away from hard things and from harm.

30:49 And that's the thing is it's one thing to protect your kid from potentially getting picked up by a stranger at the park and carried off and you never see them again.

30:56 And it's another thing to keep your kid from going to the park to begin with because they might fall down, they might get a splinter, they might, you know, fall off the monkey bars or something like that.

31:06 It's like, it's like we have no nuance, we have no gradations and how we operate and it's certainly not not doing us any favors.

31:14 No, no, we're creating a very incapable and weak generation of folks and kind of going back to the fighting thing.

31:23 You know, okay, so what I personally believe when the fighting was so villainized, I think that's what's leading to all these shootings.

31:33 Part of it, because, because kid doesn't have a say so, he has no ability to fight back until he gets so in a down wound up spot.

31:45 He goes, he or she says, well, I'm going to solve this once and for all because I can't do anything about this.

31:52 I don't want to get kicked out of school. I don't want to this and that.

31:55 So all this gets packed away and they get victimized for years and years and years and finally they say, screw it, everyone's going to pay.

32:04 Hey, and Bert, you mentioned Jordan Peterson earlier, he had a very interesting take on school shooters.

32:09 He said what a school shooter is doing is they are proving their competence because their entire life, they've been a bad student.

32:16 They haven't had a lot of friends. They don't have, you know, a dad at home.

32:20 They almost never have a dad at home or the dad's, you know, aloof and not a good dad or their own SSR eyes or both.

32:26 That's typically kind of how it goes. They don't have girlfriends. They're not, you know, the bell of the ball or the best person in sports or any of those things.

32:33 And so all at once, they're going to show the world how competent they can be and they do it in the most murderous and destructive way possible.

32:41 And as part of it, you talked about, you know, being able to move the orange flag up the ladder a little bit further.

32:47 You were displaying confidence and competence rather at a very, very young age.

32:52 Yes, because it's like, look, I was this good at this thing. Now, I'm this good at this thing.

32:56 Waits are kind of the easiest thing or jujitsu or something like that.

32:59 It's like, OK, I was getting beat up in this position and now I don't get beat up in that position anymore.

33:03 OK, I was deadlifting this now. I'm deadlifting this.

33:06 And that's the thing that when we keep that away from our kids because we're afraid that they're going to be harmed by it.

33:11 We don't realize that we're harming them by making them weak.

33:14 Another thing Jordan Peterson says, if you're scared of the damage a strong man can do, just wait until you see the damage in a weak man can do.

33:20 I mean, there's a lot there, but go ahead and hop back in.

33:23 Yeah, you're 100% right. And I would say the school shooters are never strong men.

33:27 No, no, of course not. It's never the captain of the football team that has a loving family and goes to, you know, Sunday school, like it's never that kid.

33:34 It's never. And that's unfortunate. I'm not trying to villainize those people.

33:37 Again, going back to hurt people hurt people. They've been hurt so many times and maybe they didn't have someone standing up for them.

33:43 They didn't feel confident enough to stand up for themselves.

33:46 They weren't armed. No pun intended with what they needed to be armed with early in life.

33:51 And what was this? The Pearl Jam song, you know, Jeremy spoke in class. He finally spoke.

33:56 He went in there and started Merkin people because that was, that was exactly it.

34:03 I, you know, what was the book, Wild at Heart, one of my favorite books talks about the two, the two holes in a man in a woman's heart is a man says,

34:12 Am I good enough? They're, they're wondering, do there is confidence? Am I good enough?

34:18 And when that is taken from someone or never developed, oh my gosh, there's destruction in every direction.

34:25 And that's what I look back to. And that's where weights are, like you said, the easiest thing. They're, they're numerical.

34:30 They're, they're, I picked up a hundred pounds today. I picked up a hundred and two pounds. I am two pounds better than I was yesterday.

34:37 This is super binary, super simple and linear. And that's the nice part because there's really no nuance in there mixed in.

34:45 It's like, Oh, well, you, this guy was had a bad day. Nope. You picked up more weight. You are better than you've ever been right now.

34:52 And that is such a really nice, streamlined hardship, basic thing for a kid to learn early on.

35:03 Or how many pullups could do pushups, whatever those may be. It's, it's so, so vital. I, I can't say enough.

35:10 Well, and you brought up John Elders. So obviously, everyone that listens to the show, he's been on the show more than any other person's been on the show.

35:16 He's fantastic. Yeah. Please, please tell him, Oh, I would love it. I gave all of my groomsmen a copy of Wild at Heart 12 years ago, 13 years ago.

35:26 Maybe about eight years ago, I gave every man in my family a couple of wild at heart for Christmas. But in that book, it's like, you know, yes,

35:32 the two questions I do, do I have what it takes? And do you delight in me? Right? And so it's like, so if you're a dad, yeah.

35:39 So let's, let's take the, the, the weight description because that's obviously going to be a major three point in today's discussion.

35:44 So your child was able to do, you know, two pullups. And now a month later, he can do four pullups. And I mean, that's, you can look at any way you want to look at it.

35:54 Okay. It's only four or you can look at it as a doubling. And so as a father, right, when you look at it, does he have what it takes to do a pullup?

36:01 Yes. And you affirm that. But then you say, son, I am so proud of you that in a short period of time, you were able to double your output because that didn't happen by accident.

36:12 And you didn't just walk out here having not worked on it. You worked so hard and look at you. Who knows what you'll be able to do by next month.

36:19 You have answered those two questions. Son, you have what it takes. And I delight in you. But if they only have one of the two of those, they will forever chase the one.

36:28 So it's your only a dad that says, you know, do you have what it takes? It's always going to be about pushing. Okay, great. You did four pullups. You know, why did you do five?

36:37 I saw you. You could have done five. So now you're just going to chase that. Or, contrastingly, if you're only the delight, you know, dad, do you delight in me?

36:45 It's he was going for four pullups, but he only did three. You know, son, it's okay. It doesn't really matter. Like they're just pullups. Like you could have done zero and I'd love you just like the guy you were talking about earlier.

36:55 No matter what his son did, he loved him the same. Now you might tangibly intellectually love him the same, but you can't treat them the same. But as a dad, you've got to check both boxes, you know.

37:05 That's a wonderful way to put that. And I never heard it stated that way. I really, really like that. And it's wildly true. It's exactly right on. And I think as a dad, I've done both.

37:18 I've done one. I've done the other and I've done none at times. Like we fail all the time. But man, that's a really great way to put it because.

37:28 Yeah, I have to say my parents did a good job. They always pushed.

37:34 And there were small victories. They were small. Yes, you're good enough. But then there's always, I delight in you because I know there's more.

37:42 There's more there. And I go, okay. And then, and that really, that mindset just accelerated as I got older because I had the basis of it built to an extent when I was younger.

37:55 But really, it really accelerated probably in my late teens, early twenties. And that's when like the whole world of it got cracked open to the point where I literally just believed that I could do whatever I decided to do.

38:06 Right. And we'll certainly get more back into the knucklehead side of life for you at that time period. But that's funny whenever I reflect on my own childhood.

38:13 The only time I got in trouble outside of just like being at being an idiot or being the class clown or something. If I got in trouble from sports or if I got in trouble from school, it was because I got a B, but I was capable of getting an A.

38:27 I got in trouble for that. So if I got B's, I was grounded until I got a B and AP chemistry, which was the best I could do. My parents didn't say a word. Right. It's like, hey, that was the best you could do.

38:39 And in sports, my dad didn't care if I went, you know, baseball, O for four with three strikeouts and two errors in the field. He cared if I sprinted to and from my position. If I ran out every ground ball, he cared if I went back to the dugout and

38:53 imported myself. And, you know, as an adult, didn't throw my helmet and all that. He didn't care about the outcome or the output. He cared about my level of effort, which, you know, is the only thing that I could control.

39:03 Now, I feel like, you know, you and I can continue to be philosophical and wax poetic about all that because that's been great. But let's, let's take a nice little circuitous route back to sore next equipment here.

39:13 Sure. Because you got your dad. He's doing, you know, the playgrounds in the 70s and he's doing his best with that. And then he decides to go full bore with the sore next exercise.

39:22 And then he decides to go full bore with the sore next exercise equipment and things, things of that nature. When did it become like, okay, this is going to be a thing. Because, like, people look at it now.

39:32 And they see the, the gyms where your equipment is, you know, featured, whether it's an NFL team or Joe Rogan's layer or Cam Haines's layer. And they're like, Oh, yeah, this is this is awesome. Jocko Willick.

39:42 But my goodness, it certainly did not start there. So let's go back to, you know, when your dad finally realized in some of the steps that got him to where it's like, Okay, I think this might be a thing. We might have something here.

39:51 Right. I'd like to say there was like a turning point, but there wasn't. I mean, it was a very linear progression incremental, you know, late 80 mid to late 80s. We got our first, like, big college, which was University of Kentucky football.

40:06 And it was highly customized. It was all the stuff that they said couldn't be done. And we won the job. And then pops literally had to sell his house to fund the raw materials for the steel and then leased his house back from the owner.

40:20 So he had a place to stay, but knew he needed the money for the raw materials.

40:24 So I saw that sacrifice early on. I was like, Oh my gosh, like this is crazy.

40:30 So that was, that was our kind of our first. Oh, you guys could do stuff like not just little high schools and churches and things around your community like, Oh, you guys are kind of, I wouldn't say a player yet, but oh, okay.

40:44 Sorin's doing some interesting stuff. A few years later, University of Tennessee. Bruno Paleto, who was a legend strength coach and Olympic shop putter.

40:55 He went with us for his job and he said, Well, I love what you did at Kentucky, but I want it better. And that was the first time that there was a super room.

41:04 And then another super room came up and said, we want it better. And we're thinking like, that was the best we could do. Like, we put her, like, that's the best room.

41:11 And then it was like, no, I want it better. And that was the customer pushing and going, then we realized, Oh, there's a market for this. If you're the best.

41:21 And, and sometimes it's okay, how cool can you make it regardless of, you know, you know, for those who can afford anything but to lose kind of thing.

41:31 Yeah, you know, and then you go, Okay, cool. So that was early 90s and that popped. And, you know, every couple years or every year that was like one of those jobs that we would just fight our butts off to get.

41:42 And we just started making a name underground, you know, in the mid 90s, we had the Chicago Bulls. So they were pretty good during that time, but still that was prior to we had no marketing still didn't have a business plan, no external capital and no social media

41:57 because there wasn't really the internet was basically nothing. So no one knew it. And I remember late 90s early 2000s, someone said, Oh, you guys are the best kept secret in the strength industry, which is nice.

42:09 But that doesn't get you paid. That doesn't make rent being the best kept secret isn't always the greatest thing.

42:16 So I got here in the 90 in late in 99. And I think just a fresh set of eyes, and I was able to see what dad had been through.

42:26 And because I was an athlete at the time, I just had a my finger was on the pulse of training as good as it could have been because that's all I cared about.

42:36 So I was able to bring some different perspectives and different contact points and some different just drive because I was trying to solve my problems, not necessarily the problems of the strength world.

42:47 I was trying to solve my specific training problems, which drove a lot of things forward. And that was when, and then then also just bandwidth, right. I mean, when it's only dad he could only do so much when he has someone else is helping.

43:02 When we really started to catch on it because we're working as a team and he was able to, you know, he was able to come up with some amazing things because he had me to do some of the grunt work.

43:12 And then, and then we would go back and forth. We were able to really kind of drive. So that was when it really started accelerating. And I would say 2010 to 12, probably 10 years ago is when it hit hyperdrive.

43:26 So I really like how you describe something because we live in an era where you go viral, right? So you're, you, you aren't known for anything.

43:34 Right. And then you ride down the street on a skateboard singing a song and, you know, drinking ocean spray. And then all of a sudden everybody, you know, what was that guy singing Fleetwood Mac and that song like goes back into the top 10 charts after having been out of the charts for decades.

43:49 But the guy was a non entity. And now he's an entity. That's the world we live in. And, you know, I've talked about it with the show is like, there's been a gradual, gradual, gradual. Now we kind of have a little bit of a hockey stick decline for the things that we're doing.

44:00 But even my wife tells me all the time, she's like, wow, not everyone's just going to like all of a sudden be the biggest thing overnight. And it's just like, there's nothing wrong with that gradual improvement because then you have time to grow.

44:11 And you have time to basically kind of coalesce the things that you're doing into future success. And we'll certainly get more into kind of your athletic endeavors. But one thing I did want to ask you about is everybody knows 10 stories and especially if you've been to business school.

44:25 You know, a hundred stories of that second generation business owner that either screws everything up or sends it to the moon.

44:32 And then it's that third generation business owner that regardless of what happens, they just screw everything up. Right? And so here we are. You're you're technically you're the second generation business owner.

44:42 You're in the business. Your dad's still around still doing some things. Obviously, you've seen some stratospheric rise in the last decade as you've described it.

44:50 But talk to me a little bit about the pressure of being kind of that second generation business owner running everything.

44:56 And then let's obviously look out into the future because you can't be burnt from Soren X, you know, the for the rest of your life. At some point, you got to pass the torch.

45:05 Right. Oh, that's a huge part of it. Going back to like we were saying about that slow and steady.

45:12 In my opinion, that that is, I know that's what we did. So my opinion could be like, well, we did it right. But, you know, it's like it's like building a strength base, you know, like our base was so wide.

45:23 You know, that that could support a meteoric rise because you have so much a wide base and so much of a body of work.

45:32 You know, you can look back and go, Oh, yeah, they did some really cool stuff. They did Rogan's gym that they go right. And we also invented the landmine 22 years ago.

45:42 Yeah. We also invented the, you know, fill in the blank 10 years, 12 years, 18 years, like that's longer than most of the companies have been around.

45:52 In our industry. Yeah. And, and again, that's not like, Hey, look at us, but it's just going.

45:58 When you cut in there, it cuts all the way to the bone of who we are. Like, this is what we do. Literally our, our.

46:07 Our billboard outside and it just has a picture of a hand lifting a barbell and it's just says, you know what we do.

46:14 That doesn't even say Sorenex on. It's a Sorenex barbell. Well, that's it. Like, because I'm not trying to attract every person that rides down Highway 20.

46:23 I'm trying to, I'm trying to let the people that know who we are and what we do. This is where we are.

46:28 This is, we will be glad to help you. I'm not trying to become a household brand that's, that's blown up viral and all this, the people that really have to win.

46:38 We want to be their go to guys, the go to guys for the go to guys. And so that's been something that we stay.

46:45 Pretty consistent with in our messaging, but going back to like a Rogan. I love Rogan story. Yeah, he got, he sold his podcast for 100 million bucks.

46:54 That cat's been on TV for 25 years. Right. Like famous for like five other things. Five other things. If you said 10 years ago, like, Oh, Joe Rogan, you're like, Oh, yeah, I know him from those three other things.

47:05 Yeah. Right. And I will argue, I think in the future 100 years from now, he will be known as one of those people that were, was super vital in our world during this time of our existence.

47:20 Whether it's just for giving people a voice, giving alternate views of voice, whether it's a, you know, a Paul Revere type person.

47:28 Like, okay, he wasn't actually a government person or a military leader like, but he was this guy that was doing these awesome things that gosh, without that, all these other things in life wouldn't have happened.

47:39 So I have the utmost respect for Joe and just what he's done consistently. You look like, Oh, in the 80s, you were teaching martial arts.

47:49 You're not, you just didn't get into jujitsu yesterday. You know, so that's just an interesting, interesting piece of the puzzle. And I'll be honest, I went on a tirade. I can't remember the second part of your question.

48:02 Oh, I can't either. But let's stay on what you just got through talking about. So let's look at, let's look at a Joe Rogan, even a little bit further.

48:08 You know, you have a couple of historical corollaries, the one that came to mind as you were talking was kind of a Leonardo da Vinci, because it doesn't make sense that you can have the number one podcast in the world to be the most sought after and most famous MMA commentator in the world

48:24 to be top five working comedians in the world right now. Yeah. And also, by the way, you were a good actor on a sitcom. And also, you were known for being this crazy good host of a television show on a major network.

48:41 Yeah. How can you be all of those things and be that top tier? Agreed. And I think something that a lot of people don't realize in the multi, multi, multi million dollar hunting industry, he is the number one advocate on the planet for it.

48:58 Right.

48:59 Which is, that's why I have to look at, I have to thank guys like John Dudley and Cameron Haynes, who have helped Joe, but Steve Renella, the meat eater, is the guy who got him started. And so I look at go gosh, Renella, like, hey, we should all send him a thank you letter if you're a hunter because he got the most influential

49:16 person on the planet into what we love to do. And that has created so many more people that are enjoying the outdoors from that level, but also just the capability aspect and things like that. So I think Joe all the time, like, hey, man, like, thanks for getting into

49:32 hunting. This is like, you've made it cool to do what I've been doing my whole life. Thank you. This is awesome. But that going back to Joe, I think he has a few superpowers personally, and this is just based on my experience with him.

49:51 He, his EQ is through the roof. His emotional quotient is through the roof. His IQ is extremely high as well, obviously. Two things, he has a steel trap for a mind.

50:05 He doesn't forget anything. And he doesn't, he doesn't forget. He doesn't, especially stories. He doesn't forget stories. But he also is so good at weaving then those stories in later conversations. So he's always for my assessment.

50:21 He's always data mining. When he's talking to all these super interesting people, he's taking in information and building an enormous database of stories and experiences that shape the way he sees the world, which is awesome when you could take in things

50:40 around you and take those experiences and shift and shift and shape your outlook on the world. And you don't have to personally experience that yourself. Right. He's, he has an ability to do that and also do it open minded.

50:53 But he also can regurgitate those stories verbatim months later. And I realized in talking to him one time, we were just talking about normal stuff. And he kind of joked about something. And I thought it was hilarious, whatever. It was just in a conversation.

51:10 I saw him say the same joke in a stand up a month or two later and I go, Oh my gosh, he is, he was working his bit. He was the consummate professional working. He was trying stuff out as we were talking.

51:26 And then on a podcast, I heard him tell my story. He says, Yeah, friend of mine. And he just, he give the story like I gave it. I go, we talked once about that. And months later, he told this story and he nailed it.

51:41 And I'm like, Oh my gosh, you talk to people for hours and hours and hours and hours constantly. And that you put that in a little file to be utilized later in the perfect conversation.

51:52 It was later, the story was kind of tweaked by Snoop Dogg. And he posted about and I'm like, Oh my gosh, this guy took a story from a dude who's a no one out of South Carolina and turned it into boom, boom, boom.

52:04 And that's his amplification superpower.

52:08 That's where I think people don't understand how brilliant Joe Rogan is. And they go, Oh, I could just do a podcast. I'm like, Yeah, you also aren't an X man. And I think Joe is an X man in some ways.

52:21 Well, and it's, it's an inquisitiveness that you were given as a gift. Can you develop a more inquisitive creative mind? Of course you can. But it's, you're given that as a gift. I remember being in like fifth grade and, you know, my teacher told my parents, it's like your boys very inquisitive.

52:36 And I'm like, Oh no, what did I do this time? Like what's inquisitive mean? And it was like, yeah, they already knew that it's like, it's not good enough to know that it works. You need to know how it works.

52:44 And you need to know how somebody else can can use that because everyone's got their skillset because I could ask all the time, but they're like, Kyle, I'm thinking about launching a podcast. What do you think? And I'm like, don't.

52:53 And they're like, what do you mean? I'm like, just because you can doesn't mean you should. Because, yeah, you can drop, you know, 200 bucks on some, some equipment and a camera and a mic and plug it in. But it's like, look, if you don't have anything to add to the marketplace of ideas, if you're just going to be, you know, gathering the data of your two or three other favorite

53:12 podcasts and then regurgitating it through your voice. Like, that's not interesting enough to build a career on. And it's like, look, are you willing to put out a show a year or one show a week for three or four years before you have more than 100 listeners?

53:26 Because if you're not, then don't do this because some people just plug in their microphone. They're already famous tonight. I've got this huge podcast, but you're not them.

53:34 And so I think the important thing about a Joe Rogan is he has a deep level of humility as well.

53:41 To get into things later on in life that he's not good at. So he wasn't always doing barbell training. He wasn't always doing kettlebell training.

53:51 That's something he developed later hunting was was a skill set that he started developing in his late 40s. And now it's kind of a core part of his life, you know, access to recovery systems for his body and all that.

54:02 That was a new thing. But so many guys, they're like, well, I just did my last two in a football practice in high school. I guess I don't need to work out again for the rest of my life.

54:11 And it's just kind of like guys, like you have to constantly be plugged in to podcasts to books to speaking engagements to continue to develop your brain. But most guys are just like, they're so frustrated.

54:22 They're not Joe Rogan. It's like, well, you're not putting in the work to even be on the same pathway. What are you talking about?

54:27 Right. Right. And you know, it's interesting to say about a podcast. They do whatever and they go be a podcaster. I would say there's very few podcasters that started as a podcaster that are a high end podcaster.

54:40 Now, if that makes it, they all tend to have done other extraordinary things in life. And I talked about it at a national convention. I was just at the other day was everyone wants to be interesting.

54:53 A lot of people, they're like, I want to be cool. I want to be interesting. I want people to talk to them.

54:58 Well, and here's the main. Here's the main. I agree. First of all, not everyone can be interesting or by definition. That's not there.

55:05 But one of the biggest caveats or the biggest indicators of being interesting is being interested. Sure. And most people just aren't that frickin interested about what's going on around them.

55:19 And that's again, going back to Joe, not to continue to blow him up. That is an interested son of a gun. That guy asked a million and a half questions.

55:27 Even when you're just like in his house, like building a weight room for me. He's like, what's this do? What's that do? And you're like, Oh my gosh, you're just that interested. You're that curious.

55:37 And you're gathering information constantly. So if you're super interested and you have a steel trap for a mind and you're a good storyteller, you nailed it.

55:49 You're the orator of the world at that point. And that's the interesting thing that I don't think many people have all three of those skill sets.

55:59 And if you're just not interested in life, like you're probably going to be bored. You're probably going to be depressed. You're probably that's something interested in the world is something that I think for mental health you have to have in many ways.

56:14 Well, and Bert, you have to be you. I remember listening to Joe describe early in his comedy career. He had adopted the cadence of another successful comedian at that time. That it wasn't him. It wasn't his voice. It wasn't really his cadence. And he was listening to it back. And he's like, wait a minute. That's not me.

56:32 And then he started developing his own brand, his own sound, his own style. The same thing is if you try to just hit record and try to talk to your buddy for three hours.

56:41 Like, you know, Dennis Prager has a great rule is he's like, if you want to be in talk radio, put yourself in a room by yourself, hit record and be interesting for three hours.

56:50 And then do that the next four days of the week, take a couple of days off and then come back the next week, because that's what it's going to take. You know, you're going to be interesting for three hours at a time. Some people just aren't there.

57:00 But to kind of go back to something you were talking about. I have this rule. I don't know that I've ever talked about on the show.

57:05 You know, sometimes when you go into a setting, like, so if I'm brought somewhere to speak, obviously there's a lot of eyes on me. There's a lot of focus on me because I'm the guest speaker and oh, that's the guy that has a podcast show and all that kind of stuff.

57:15 If I'm meeting someone for the first time, I have a little ticker in my brain. I need to ask them six questions about them and their life before I will answer any questions about me.

57:24 And so a question could be like, Oh, hey, what's your name?

57:27 Oh, where are you from? And you know, what brings you to this event? Well, how did you get interested in that? You know, and you just, you kind of keep going.

57:34 And you're showing that person. You're practicing being interested in someone other than yourself because we live in the most narcissistic time in history where you only need to be worried about you.

57:43 And hey, I can't just hang out with Bert. I got to take a picture with Bert so I could post it online so that I can collaborate with him on Instagram so that I can have all his friends and have all his influence.

57:53 You see what I'm saying? And it's just like, it takes you out of your own placement of I'm going to focus on me.

57:59 And yes, ask me questions because I am the greatest person in this room, obviously, but it's almost like practicing humility in a way, but then you do get better at being, you know, genuinely interested in other people.

58:10 Because everyone has a cool story. Well, even people that aren't that interesting have some cool part of a story that they've done something interesting in life.

58:19 Maybe even if this that they didn't do anything interesting. Well, that's interesting in itself. I can't believe that you hadn't gotten around doing anything cool.

58:26 And then the question is why isn't that why haven't you what's the failure to launch right like so everyone has a story and, but I agree with you, most people are too narcissistic and too self centered to give a crap what anyone else is thinking doing or otherwise.

58:42 And it's it's sad in a way I don't know if it's social media I don't know if it's just the world I don't know if it's just humanity I don't I don't know the reason.

58:50 Well, everyone does have a story I thought about a guy that has become a friend of mine that's been on the show's name is Ray Dorwart. He's a legendary boot maker custom boot maker here in Oklahoma.

58:59 But if you were to just walk up to him at a doughnut shop or a coffee shop or something like that, he just looks like an old cowboy.

59:05 And if you didn't ask him a few questions he's not going to tell you. Yeah, people will pay me 10 grand to make their boots and I have a two year waiting list like no one's going to just not just going to come out.

59:14 But talking to that guy when he was on my show like there was so many cool things about his upbringing like he was a real life cowboy in the Dakotas and in Wyoming and in Montana.

59:22 And like, you know, he thought he was going to end up making saddles but he ended up making boots because you're in them all the time and, you know, he had a horse like he was running some cattle and he had a horse like, you know, kick back and fall on him.

59:32 And like basically he thought he was going to die and he sat there and kind of had this spiritual moment on a trail by himself when he thought he was going to die.

59:39 And that's just a dude that you would walk by in Oklahoma and just think, yeah, there's a guy, you know what I mean? So it's like stopping along enough to have those conversations are really interesting.

59:46 So I'm really glad we went off on that tangent as well.

59:49 What's his boot company's name? What's his?

59:53 So he just, I think he just calls it door wart boots. That's his last name, Ray door wart.

59:58 And so like he's been making them for, you know, 20, 30 years, like I can obviously connect you with him as well because like, and, you know, whenever I got connected with him, he's worried about the next generation of bootmakers because

1:00:08 he will have a cattle rancher from North Dakota send all of his hands to Guthrie, Oklahoma to, you know, because he does seven or eight measurements on each shoe.

1:00:19 And then he basic or each foot rather, and then he builds the boot around the specifications of your foot.

1:00:25 And what's the job? Like, like 80% of the boots he makes are not for, you know, guys like me that just want to walk around the boots.

1:00:30 He's making it for guys that are working that need these boots to work.

1:00:34 And, you know, he'll do everything on it is custom every stitch every every piece of leather and everything.

1:00:39 But that's just what he does. But he wants that next generation of people like he talked about maybe trying to start like a school of young kids that want to maybe get into that because there's not a whole lot of Ray door warts just hanging around.

1:00:50 You know what I mean?

1:00:51 That's super cool.

1:00:52 That's awesome. Well, I like that you gave him a plug because I like people doing that in that way.

1:00:56 Yeah, he's a great dude for sure. But I do need to kind of to weave all the way back as you mentioned it a couple of times.

1:01:01 Dude, I'm enjoying this. This is we're having a good time. But obviously you weren't just a guy that did barbell training. You weren't just a guy that, you know, had some business ideas for dads business or things like that.

1:01:13 You were an athlete that needed to be strong in order to be successful. But I want to go all the way back to college. Okay. Because you go to college and you had no athletic prospects for the most part by your own admission.

1:01:26 You weren't an excellent high school track athlete. You weren't, you know, a sought after athlete when it came to collegiate sports or anything like that.

1:01:34 But you went in in relatively short order. You went from a collegiate partier to a world class hammer thrower. So I know that's a long story. But my goodness, how the hell does that happen?

1:01:48 Yeah, I guess all that did happen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't think of it that way. But right. I mean, the story is I went to University of South Carolina with no really intent of staying there.

1:02:01 I wanted to go to Appalachian State because that seemed like a cooler party school. Again, grew up in the 80s watching 80s movies. I thought like life was like an 80s movie.

1:02:09 That sounded amazing. College sound like a super fun place to go. Yep. And so I went to South Carolina because I was, I think I applied late and I couldn't get an app state.

1:02:20 I got in for the spring. But I was like, I'll go to South Carolina. It's 10 minutes down the road. I'll take some classes, blah, blah, blah. But it's in the city.

1:02:27 So I'm like, I'm going to just go to the bars a lot and just enjoy not being in the house. This is going to be great.

1:02:32 Showed up. I think I drank for six days and partied and rode my mountain bike around and just had this awesome college experience. Seventh day I woke up and I was like, I need to, I need to lift weights.

1:02:43 That guilt kind of kicks back. Yeah. But I'm not just going to be a stupid party kid. Like, I'm going to actually lift weights because I do love that.

1:02:51 But yes, I was a crappy thrower in high school throwers and discus and shot put. I was never recruited. I sucked. I wouldn't suck. I made like regionals and upper state, but like I wasn't that great.

1:03:07 And so anyway, I go call pops. I go, Hey, well, first I went to our rec center. Our rec center gym was terrible for all the students.

1:03:17 So I knew that we had built some equipment in the football facility at the Williams Bryce Stadium. So I said, well, they'll at least have good sort of next equipment I could work out on.

1:03:26 And so I called pops. I mean, this is prior to cell phones. I called him on my dorm room phone and said, Hey, do you know the strength coach down there? Do you think you get me in to work out where I could work out? Use our equipment.

1:03:38 And I said, sure, let me give him a call. He calls down there. Rock says, Yeah, tell him to come in after the athletes work out. And again, I'm 17 years old in college. I'm not paying attention. What time he said.

1:03:51 I just get done eating my burritos. I'm like, well, I feel like working out. Like, let's go. So I go down there. And if you've ever been in a college weight room in August at 2 p.m. It's like everybody business time in the world. Yeah.

1:04:03 And the first week of school says like all the new athletes, all the freshmen, what worked to my advantage is every quarter of the population is new, a quarter or more or new. So no one knows who anyone is.

1:04:16 And this is before that you had to wear like a South Carolina gear or whatever it was. So like, people are just in whatever they're wearing. So you could like wildly just sneak in. There's no guards. There's no security. You just walk in.

1:04:29 So I walked in and looked around and I was like, yeah, this just looks kind of cool. Walk over to the platform, start doing some cleans. Like, this is a good time. I'm enjoying myself, which now I think about is like, it's wild that this even worked.

1:04:40 And so I look over and there's some people standing in line and they're doing a vertical jump test. That looks cool because, you know, Rocky for was one of my favorite movies and I love all the diagnostics and everything of Ivan Drago.

1:04:53 Like, this looks great. Oh, I get a good test. I think I could jump pretty high. So Walker, they give me a piece of paper. I'm like, cool. I put my name on it. I measure a jump. You know, there's pretty good.

1:05:05 And gives me the piece of paper back. I walk off and I go, I'm bench pressing. I look over and they're doing body fat testing caliper time. That looks cool too.

1:05:15 It's like, I'm pretty lean. I'll go to see what I am. I stand in line. Like Forrest Gump. I just stand in line, you know, and standing there and I get up to the guy who's sitting in a chair and he had the calipers out. He goes, what sport are you? And I was like, oh, [inaudible].

1:05:30 Well, track and field. I totally like just because I had done it before. At least I knew I could like talk the part because of what events I said, well, shot, put in discus, I'm going to walk on in the spring.

1:05:41 And he goes, Oh, well, how far do you throw? And I'm like, what do we tell? Like, why would this guy be asking me this? He's like the fat caliper guy. And I told him. And he's like, I said, I wasn't very good in high school. Like, you know, and he was like, yeah, that's not very good. I was like, yeah, I know I already told you that's not very good.

1:06:06 I wasn't good. He was like, Oh, well, my name is Larry judge. I'm the throws coach at the University of South Carolina. And I'm like, you've got to be like all the people of all the, there's a hundred thousand people in our city.

1:06:18 And the one guy I can't lie to happens to be the guy I walk up to and lie to. I'm like, Oh, and he goes, well, okay, well, we start tomorrow to be out there. And I was like, coach, really, you know, this is a spring sport. You know, this is August.

1:06:32 I'll see you in the spring thinking I could totally milk this whole thing for a few more months. He'll forget like I'm good to go. I got a place to work out. He goes, no, son, no, you're in college. If you're, if you're going to be on the team, you'll be there tomorrow.

1:06:42 No, he goes, no, it's, he's a, it starts tomorrow. And I said, okay, yeah, coach, I'll try to make it. And I just totally shift. And then he looks at me in the eye. He goes, no, if you're on the team, you will make it tomorrow. And I'll go.

1:06:54 Oh, okay. So I went to get my body fat tested and literally 45 seconds later, I had joined a track team.

1:07:03 That happens to all of us. It happens to me. It's, you know, the tail is oldest time, you know. So, you know, so I go back and I finish up some lifting.

1:07:13 I'm like, man, this is my head's kind of reeling. I'm like, what the world just happened. So I go back to my, my, my door and I call my dad.

1:07:20 And he's like, how'd you work out and go? I was like, I think I joined the track team.

1:07:24 By accident. By accident. And see, he was one of the highest recruited discus throwers in the nation when he got to South Carolina. That's why he came to South Carolina. So like he was a kind of a legend.

1:07:35 And so immediately he thinks like, whoa, are you trying to do this for me? Like, what's your, what's your angle with this? And I go, he goes, what are you going to do? I guess I'll show up. I'll go check it out.

1:07:45 Nothing, no expectation had no idea. I didn't want to be an athlete. That wasn't part of the plan, part of the goal.

1:07:53 I literally wanted to get a workout in when I was done being hungover. Like, that was the whole thing.

1:07:59 I showed up the next day, some of the biggest people I'd ever seen in my life. And I thought they were seniors. They turned out they were also freshmen. I'm like, I am so screwed.

1:08:08 But what did it, I always had a respect for athletes. And I always loved the image of an athlete and what a real powerful athlete could be. I was just never that person.

1:08:23 And in the first four weeks of training, we would, we would do a rep max every four weeks. And after the first four weeks, I literally got like way stronger.

1:08:34 I tried neuromuscular improvements, but I got way stronger in the first four weeks. And I go, Oh, this is cool. Yeah. And then four weeks later, it happened again.

1:08:47 And then what do we, it was just like that ribbon going up the tree. Oh, I could be better than I've ever been. Oh, I could be better than I've ever been. And every four weeks, I became addicted to I could be better than I've ever been.

1:09:01 And I remember leaving. I came into that year in August, 172 pounds, six foot two. So I was pretty thin. And I got up to 199 at Christmas break. So within a semester, within a semester.

1:09:15 And I remember I was packing to go home for Christmas. I stood up on a chair and I was getting something out of the top of the closet.

1:09:20 And I looked across the room, just caught my eye and there was a mirror on the wall and I couldn't see my head and I couldn't see my feet. All I could see was like in the middle of my body.

1:09:29 And I remember going, whoa, those legs are big. Like, you have a butt now. Like, what's going on? Because I put on 30 pounds almost. And I was like, Oh, there's this. Like, this is cool.

1:09:45 And I remember just like during that first semester, it was like a whole switch flipped. I was on fire for it. I realized now, if I put in the work, I got paid for it every time.

1:09:58 I got paid for it in spades. I loved watching what I could do. I loved being better. Every single day I woke up, I was better than the day before.

1:10:07 And that was addictive. That was, I, that was the best ride in the park. If you told me college was 20 years long at that point, I'd have signed up for it. I go, if this ride continues, I never want to do anything else.

1:10:19 And so that became my career. And I was, I became addicted to the process and also the payouts. And then, of course, you go to throw and you throw further in the PRs and like, yeah, that became all I cared about in life.

1:10:34 For the most part, and really school was just my ticket to be able to ride that ride. I hate to say I wasn't a very studious person. I think I got a 1.9 my freshman first semester.

1:10:45 My coach almost killed me. It's kind of funny. So I come back from Christmas. It's a funny story. So the head, head, head, head, track coaches there. And he comes over. He was soaring. Get over here. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, the guy knows my name because I was a walk on like no one knew me.

1:10:59 Right. Right. He was, Hey, how's your Christmas? I'm pretty good. You know, he goes, Hey, got your report card. I'm like, you know, yeah, he goes, well, you got a B, a C, a D, and an F.

1:11:10 And he goes, are you trying them all out? Like, well, yeah, you know, not too good. He goes, listen, and this was probably the first conversation I've ever had with an adult that was, it was probably the most, one of the most important conversations still in my life.

1:11:25 And he said, listen, you, we didn't recruit you to come here. He goes, the other teammates, your teammates seem to like you. The coaches say you're pretty nice guy. You're hardworking kid.

1:11:37 I know your dad was a good thrower here. So you have some genetic potential probably. He gets, but we didn't recruit you. He goes, you're not, you weren't someone we accounted for.

1:11:49 The only two reasons you're on this track team is to throw really far and score score points at the SEC conference championships, or get good grades. So you bring up the team GPA for the kids that can't.

1:12:06 They're the ones that will score at the SEC's, but we need their grade point out the team grade point average. So you're basically the padding for those guys.

1:12:14 They go, so you either need to get good grades or throw really far. And I go, okay, he goes, so get your [inaudible] together or leave.

1:12:23 And it, in 18, barely 18 years old to have an adult just look at you and go, get your [inaudible] together or leave. And I went, Oh, I mean, it was a punch to the chest that I'd never had. Everyone had babyed it. Everyone was, you're a nice guy.

1:12:39 And I always knew how to kind of get around it. And he just said, here is your criteria. Here is your value. You do this, or I don't care if the other girls on the team think you're cute and the guys think you're a nice guy.

1:12:52 That is not valuable to me in the least. You either do this, you do this. If you did both, that'd be great. But currently you're doing none of it.

1:13:01 And you didn't just shatter into a million pieces when he said, I'm sure it wasn't fun to listen to. No, but it gave you fuel. It gave me fuel. It was like, Oh, so I don't have to have another conversation like this. If I change one or both of those things.

1:13:17 And then I get to stay here and I get to ride this ride. You just gave me the criteria. Got it. We're crystal clear. And so I loved throwing and being strong. So that, of course, caught on faster.

1:13:30 Right. But I will say my last five semesters in college, I was on the Dean's list. I was all SCC, athletically and academically and in all Americans. So once I learned how to win, it was like, Oh, winning begets winning.

1:13:45 I don't have to have one or the other. If I could win in life, I'd know how to win. And this is through a ton of effort and staying accountable.

1:13:53 Well, that was your Robert Frost moment. You know, you have two roads in a yellow and you had to choose one. And there are, there are a lot of kids, I would say, especially now that would take that tongue lashing from a coach.

1:14:05 And they would never come back because it's like, you don't know me and you don't know my history. And you know, I check these intersectional boxes. So you can't talk to me that way to begin with and all that.

1:14:14 And I was like, no, you took that and it propelled you. I think I got all this right. For time, all American, you're an SCC champion. Like you went from a kid who should have been nowhere near the gym, much less the track team.

1:14:27 And then you became one of the dominant forces on on, you know, an SCC track and field team, which is, it's not a small deal. And so that's, that's an incredible story for you to be able to take that to be able to use that as motivation and as fuel that pointed you in the right

1:14:43 position. And you know, maybe the coach knew that that was going to be the outcome. And maybe he didn't. Maybe he's like, here's a standard. And I need people to be above this standard. And if you choose to be below it, that's on you.

1:14:54 Hey, I set the rules, but I don't get to choose whether or not you followed them like that. That's just basically the way you did it. Yes, you're 100% right. And I talked to him later and he laughed. He was like, I didn't really see you turning out the way you did.

1:15:06 But the awesome. And I've thanked him every time I've seen him in the last 25 years, I go, those, that one sentence. And I'm literally that being said, I'm probably going to write it in my office right in front of my desk because that still applies.

1:15:17 That still applies to my life. Right. If, if I don't put out a good product and take care of my people and take care of my community, I need to leave the industry.

1:15:28 And because it doesn't matter what I've done before that our brand has been big or what I like any of that. So that was the first time that it was probably in my entire life, literally in my entire life, that I was given a non emotional, very clear criteria.

1:15:47 This is what you have to do or don't. I'm not in your corner. I'm not across from your corner. I'm just saying this is it. And I think more kids and more people would very much benefit from having that style of, Hey,

1:16:05 I don't know. I don't know what you're going to win. I don't want you to win. If you're going to be on my team, this is what you got to do. I hope you got what it takes.

1:16:13 And, I mean, dude, there's so many times in your life where at the time you don't know that this is going to be one of those moments that you're going to be able to look back on and be able to build yourself up from there.

1:16:24 But, you know, it's, I forget who said it, but it's like you can't connect the dots looking forward. You can only connect them looking backwards because, you know, you go from being, you know, a non entity in the athletic world to being an SEC champion and a four time all American.

1:16:36 But then you have Olympic aspirations. And then that leads to the Highland Games. Well, let's say with the Olympics first because there are a lot of people, you know, when you grow up watching the summer Olympics, there's a lot of kids.

1:16:46 I think, Hey, I'm going to develop and, you know, being an Olympian someday and they don't really realize what that means. And they don't really realize, you know, the track that you have to go on the sacrifices that you have to make.

1:16:55 But you're done as a, as a thrower in college. And now you're looking at being an Olympic athlete. So take me through that.

1:17:02 Yeah. Well, it early happened, I think in college, because of the level that we competed out of the NCAA's and my roommate in college as a freshman was an Olympic shot putter for Canada.

1:17:15 So what I was able to see the next level first, I met all Americans at South Carolina. I go, Whoa, you're in all America. What does that mean?

1:17:23 Because I knew it sounded awesome.

1:17:25 And so I decided as a freshman, I go, I will be one of those one day. Whatever that is, I will be one of those one day.

1:17:30 And then I realized when I trained with these people every day, the mysticism of the whole thing started falling away and I go, Oh, it's just performance based.

1:17:39 You're not a magician. You don't have an X factor. You don't have all these other things. You're just, you're genetically gifted. You're talented and you work really freaking hard.

1:17:50 But if I outwork you every day in the weight room and every day in the field and I out effort you, I could catch up. I could eventually catch up. So my first goal was be all American.

1:18:00 First goal was scored the SEC, then it was go to the NCAA, then it was be an all American and I would just chip off these, these, these waypoints.

1:18:09 And then while I was doing that, I was living with an Olympian and there were other Olympians on my team. So that I want to go. Oh, so Olympians aren't just those things we watched on TV when we were kids, these magicians, these super, super freaks.

1:18:23 Now, are they super freaky? Yeah. And the grand scheme of things, but sometimes ignorance is blessed and it's better to be a little delusional.

1:18:29 And I go, I see Brad Snyder every day. We're roommates. I gave him right to class every day. We train to get, we spot each other every day. He gets to go to the world championships in the Olympics because his ball falls further from his feet than everyone else's when he throws it.

1:18:44 But I could change that. I could get closer to that. And then it was, it was funny. I've cited it before. In the mid 90s, there was a movie with Anthony Hopkins called The Edge. And he has the thing. He says, well, one man can do another can do.

1:19:00 And I just always listen to that. I go, okay, well, if this guy can make the Olympic team and he's a man just like I am. He has one head. He has two hands. He has like all the same kind of tools.

1:19:14 Then all that separating us is time and effort and maybe a little luck here and there, but there's nothing that he possesses that I don't. Now, reality of it is like there's sometimes people just possess.

1:19:27 There are, there are only a few Francis and Gondu's in the world. You know what I mean? There's just a few of them. But there's people that overachieve based on they don't believe that's the case. And so my thought was, Hey, I've already seen these wild things

1:19:43 happen in my life from winning an un recruited nobody of an athlete to being a team captain, SEC record holder. I did that in five years. So who's to say, when is this curve going to flatten out? I don't know.

1:19:56 But I'm going to keep my foot on the gas as long as possible and see what happens. So I went after the Olympic dream and that was a five year period. Looking back, I could have done things better in some ways.

1:20:07 It's also hard having a full time 50 hour plus week job while also trying to be trying to basically take over sore necks and do sore necks while trying to be a professional athletes relatively difficult as impossible.

1:20:19 So, but what I later, the joke was is because I was going after with such fervor, the athletic world, I was getting a master's class on training and, and the contact basis I had because I was around the brightest minds and training because that's what I loved for 10, 12 years.

1:20:42 I was able to pull that back into my vocational world, literally in seconds. And I would go and train somewhere and go, Oh, I see this, this guy doing this rear leg elevated squat, but it's on this special box.

1:20:56 Well, that box isn't a sustainable thing to make. So I invented the single leg squat pad. Well, that was not for public consumption. That was because I wanted to do that exercise.

1:21:06 Right. You know, so those things like I wouldn't have come up with those things if I was just someone said, all right, Bert, well, we need to make some money. So I need you to make a product that costs $299 that we could sell everywhere.

1:21:18 Like, that's never been the thing. It was, okay, I want to do this movement with a barbell as I train for the 2000 Olympic trials.

1:21:26 So we built the landmine. And then a year later, people go, Hey, what's that thing? I go, oh, that's the thing I just trained for for hammer throwing. They go, well, can I buy one? I go, well, yeah, sure.

1:21:36 And so that was, that's where I still have such a passion for the training and the competition specifically track and field of what it did for me because it was more of a driver than it was really, I'd never reached the level that I wanted to reach as an Olympic athlete.

1:21:52 Like that wasn't, that was a goal. I never got there. But the process, the joke is the process is what mapped out pretty much all the success in my life.

1:22:02 Well, a lot of people said trust the process. That's a quote that everybody's familiar with. But one thing, and I may be getting the stories mixed up so correct the record if I'm wrong.

1:22:10 But you end up going from, you know, your Olympic dreams and pursuing that to pursuing the Highland Games. And I think most of the people in our audience are familiar with the Highland Games and some of the strongman competitions over there.

1:22:21 And the kilts that are worn and, you know, kind of, it's this really cool thing that if you ever had the opportunity, if you're over there to go watch it, you definitely should.

1:22:28 That's a bucket list sports item for me to go and watch something like that. But I think I remember this right. But I think you were competing in the Highland Games.

1:22:37 And then you were being introduced to somebody else or somebody at some conversation was happening. And you were introduced as, yeah, this guy would be pretty good if he tried.

1:22:45 And which you got to look at that a couple of different ways. You got to look at that as like, well, that sucks to be introduced that way.

1:22:53 Because it's like, you know, I don't want to be known for something that's like negative or something that's like, Hey, I'm not living up to my potential.

1:23:00 But at the same time, you're like, wait a minute. This guy saw enough in me to kind of like rip me a little bit to be like, yeah, this Jack Wagon would actually like treat this like it's a real thing.

1:23:10 He could be world class. So do I have that story pretty? Yeah, that's pretty darn close. It was it was Casey Cummins at the Savannah games.

1:23:18 And so I got out of out of Olympic track and field. And I'd done a couple Highland games because they were kind of fun. I do them like in the fall and like, yeah, they're cool.

1:23:27 They're sort of throwing there. I'd train for like a week beforehand just to get familiar with the implements. I'd go to the game.

1:23:33 I'd have fun. I'd do one. Boom. Be done. It was a cross train.

1:23:37 Well, afterwards, after I retired from after 2004 Olympic trials, I think in 2005, I was like, I want to try some some games again. So I went to a couple of games.

1:23:47 I kept getting second in the overall. I'd break like two or three field records and like, of course, like the hammer throw and things like that.

1:23:53 And then I would get my butt handed to me on two or three events that I didn't practice. I didn't train. And, but I always get, we get second.

1:24:00 And I would go, man, whatever. I don't really practice this. Like, it's kind of fun. And I went to this game. And I think I got second at that one as well.

1:24:09 And I taught the athlete directors, Casey comes in and goes, Oh, hey, oh, you're, I said, Hey, you know, my name is Bert Soren. It's nice to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

1:24:17 He goes, Oh, you're soaring. I go, yeah, he goes, Oh, you're the one they said would be good if you would try.

1:24:21 And I was just like, wait, what? So yes, there was that part in there. It goes, Oh, cool. People think I would be good. And I'm good enough.

1:24:29 That's cool, comma, if I would try. And I just, and it's stung so badly because I go, Wow, I've made a brand of my for myself unknowingly that I'm the guy who doesn't try.

1:24:43 And who I'm talented, and I'm wasting my talent. And I was like, okay. And so I asked him that day. I said, what's, what's the big game that everyone wants to go to in this sport?

1:24:57 He goes, well, this year it's north versus south. So he goes, we pick a team of five people in the north or the south to go against five people from the north.

1:25:05 And we had a big shootout in Louisiana and it switches places and I go, how do I get on that team? And he goes, well, you have is picked by me, but you have to be dominant blah, blah, blah.

1:25:15 Here's your marks. And I said, what marks do I have to have? And he goes, well, you big. I said, gotcha. I'm going to keep up with you.

1:25:21 And I went home and I was on fire because I couldn't get that out of my head. You're the guy that would be good if you would try. And I was 57th in the nation that week.

1:25:32 And I literally every day I would take the every single day is I would take the database, the national database, and I would find what event I was worst at. And that's when I came up with the terminology I called a hunt weakness.

1:25:47 And I hunted my weakness and I would find what am I worst at? What will what mark will it take to get in the top 10? And I would write that down and I would go out and practice and do everything I possibly could until my implement would go past the top 10 number.

1:26:01 And I would go and I would just pick it off. I'd pick off my weaknesses constantly and I would self-assess and pick my weaknesses. And I think I know that that next year I won the amateur world championships.

1:26:14 So I went from 57th in the nation to first in the world and turned pro. And I think I had 57, but in like five weeks, I went to like third or fourth in the nation.

1:26:23 And I just was on a tear. And I got just competed the north south games and the next year I got to compete as this team captain for the US team against US Scotland.

1:26:34 But that brought me right back into my wheelhouse of Oh, care about this more than anything and put everything on the line and hunt weakness and go after it and realize what your potential could be at this or leave.

1:26:49 Yeah, just stop doing it because you're disrespecting the people. I mean, I'd feel bad if I was a third place guy that got beat by a guy that didn't try screw that like, you know, it's like, I can't beat.

1:27:03 I don't want to be that guy to that guy, but I also don't want to carry my family name on my back is being the guy who doesn't try.

1:27:10 So that was a wake up call to me of like, Oh, there's still more fight in you. And, and you still could, you still could go on this adventure again. And all of a sudden, as a 27 year old, I was thrown right back into being a 17 year old.

1:27:25 And it was like, Oh, I could get better every day. Right. It was awesome.

1:27:31 That's just an invaluable thing. That's another time in your life where you took some words by somebody else and you use them as fuel and you didn't use them as an excuse again. We're marinating this victimhood mindset and modernity to where if you don't do well, it's because

1:27:46 someone else did something to hurt you. It's not that you didn't, you know, see your potential or you didn't like exceed it or you weren't didn't try. It's none of that.

1:27:54 It's the world's against you for some odd reason. Like there's this enemy in the ether that's just only going to focus on you. So I really enjoy kind of getting into that.

1:28:04 There's one thing I wanted to kind of go back to with the sore next.

1:28:07 So you've got all the athletic endeavors, all those different things.

1:28:10 You obviously were a collegiate athlete. But one thing that you never were was a member of the United States military. And for me, being in my mid 30s, I get accused, I guess you could call it of having been a veteran or something like that because it's like,

1:28:23 because of the life that I live, because of the workouts that I do, because of, you know, the things that I support with my time and with my money, it's things that veterans would do. But that was never the track for me.

1:28:33 I got a scholarship to go to school and I immediately got out and started working. I never went to the military. It's one thing for me that I'm always kind of like, man, I kind of wish I would have done that, but my whole life would be different.

1:28:42 I wouldn't have my wife. I wouldn't have my sons. Like I wouldn't live in the city. I live. You know, it is what it is. God put me exactly where he needed me so that his, his will could be done.

1:28:50 But for you, obviously, there's tactical gear that Soren X makes. You make this not for, you know, guys to look cool, the shooting range, but guys that are going downrange like in war, making stuff that's not going to break on them and stuff that they can actually use.

1:29:03 But the same thing for you, you do a lot for veterans and for veterans organizations and for the active duty community, but you yourself are not a veteran. So we're kind of similar in that way, but I just wanted to kind of tee you up to talk about that a little bit because like I see that as a regret, but as a lot of really, you know, veterans that

1:29:19 I respect have told me, they're like, Kyle, you're a great American doing what you do. I happen to serve downrange and that's what that's what I had to do. You're doing what you have to do on this side. So, so go for it.

1:29:30 Yeah, I will mimic that, you know, that exact same feeling. I've always had an affinity for the military. I just didn't have my granddad served and, you know, I'm an only child's and my dad's an only child so and he didn't serve at the time.

1:29:46 He actually broke his leg in a motorcycle accident that as he was basically getting drafted for Vietnam. So I mean, we didn't have a lot of that in our life. So I honestly didn't know how you even got in the military. Like, I thought it was super cool.

1:30:01 I'm just like, I don't know. They just come to your house one day and grab you like, how does this really work? You know, and I was an idiot kid. So you just don't know. And then, you know, then once the athletic bug overtook me, that was a done deal until I was probably 30 years old.

1:30:16 And I'll be honest, a lot of my good friends are in the military or were in the military. That is a regret in some ways that I wish I would have served our country in that way. And I've had, but I've had those same people tell me, they go, "No, Bert, like what you've done and what you've created in your community and the assets and the things like you are serving our country. You're serving us in that way.

1:30:39 We're glad that you did what you did. And they're happy for me." They said, "You know, you're running an American brand that is supportive of the military that gives us opportunity and stuff like that." So I could look at it now and go, "Okay, I did the path I was supposed to do because everything would be different. There wouldn't be a sore next now if I was in the military."

1:31:02 And I'm not saying that would be the end of the world. It would be different. It would be a different deal. So I'm happy to work alongside of the men and women, but I make zero inferences that I was in the military or any of that.

1:31:22 I might look like it because of whatever, because I dress in tan and green a lot because I'm just not a flashy guy. I like being able to hide if I want to.

1:31:32 Well, I think that's a good thing for a lot of people in my audience as well, because there's a lot of veterans, a lot of active duty to listen to this, but then a lot of guys as well that, "Hey, not serving in the military doesn't mean you don't get to serve your nation, and it doesn't mean you don't get to serve those who have served."

1:31:45 And so there is a role for you to play. I grew up in Lawton, Fort Sill. And so there was a lot of military in my town. And so when one of our soldiers didn't come back from Iraq, that was a time for the community to come around that family, who's going to take care of the lawn and who's going to make sure the kids get to soccer practice it.

1:32:02 Who's going to do the things to help out this single mother now? Those are things that you're not serving. You're not filling up cantines for people or cleaning blood out of Humvees, but you're serving in a different way, but you're still serving.

1:32:16 I know we're kind of whining to a close here, but I would be remiss if I didn't at least throw some hunting questions out there at you.

1:32:22 I talked a little bit off air about some hunting, some excursions that you're looking to go on, some stuff I'm going to be going on here soon. But I'm curious for you. Did you grow up hunting? Is this something that you've developed as an adult? Because, you know, I'm learning, you know, in my 30s, how to hunt so that my boys can kind of grow up being around hunting?

1:32:38 And then just kind of tell me about how the stuff that you're doing with Sorenex and your barbell training and all that, how that basically gives you a direct tie into some of the hunting that you do.

1:32:46 Right, that's a good question. So yeah, hunting was probably my first love. I know it was prior to strength conditioning. I always thought big, strong people were cool, but hunting was something that I always hunting the outdoors just since I could remember.

1:32:59 I thought it was great.

1:33:02 That was really what I did a lot in high school. So I didn't do a lot of sports. I hunted in fish because as an only child you could do it as much as you want.

1:33:09 You don't have to have anyone to throw a ball at you or defend you or whatever you could just go sneak around the woods and learn from the game and stuff like that. So that always, that was always a peaceful thing for me.

1:33:19 It would slow things down and make me present. And so I've talked about before presence is something I look forward, look for in my life. And I'm not good at it.

1:33:31 I'm a forward thinker is I'm a planner. I'm a dreamer, which is always forward. But I found that hunting and heavyweights generally, I could be very present for because I have to be.

1:33:43 And so that's where that addictive quality of that is, like I've said before, 500 pounds in your back is trying to kill you. So you got to be present. Right. And so where is like, if it's 225, it's just kind of a pain in the ass.

1:33:57 It's just on my back. It's like, okay, whatever, but 500 now it's fun because now we got to be here, you know.

1:34:05 So I grew up hunting. That was something that my dad always instilled in me. And I think the biggest part of that that I learned early on was that criteria and that emotionless outcome scenario, meaning which I learned at eight years old.

1:34:22 If I went out and pops, put me in a deer stand and gave me a rifle. And I mean, and it rained and I didn't bring my raincoat. I was getting wet.

1:34:32 He wasn't coming back early because he thought I was wet. That was up to me as a man to bring my stuff, you know, to be prepared.

1:34:41 If, if, you know, he might say, Hey, let's look at that. It's going to rain today. That was it. Yeah, there, there is. I had to take that information and go, Ah, army poncho, probably a good thing to put in my pack.

1:34:54 And the times I forgot it, which of course I did because I was a kid, you sit and you freeze your ass off in the rain and you your puddles in your pants from, you know, wet going down your back and you're just sitting there and you're like, Oh, you're looking at your little watch

1:35:08 is fogging up because you're so wet and you're like, Oh, I have three more hours of this. Yeah, and pops is not coming back because I was told the criteria that was going to occur.

1:35:18 So you learn really fast. Like, it's no one's fault, but mine, the weather doesn't hate me. Dad doesn't hate me. It's just, it's going to do what it's going to do.

1:35:28 And I better be prepared for that. So that taught me redundancies that taught me planning that taught me how can I carry the least amount of things that have the most uses for them.

1:35:38 So then you start thinking divergently of the whole idea of what can use something for what it can be, not for what it allegedly is.

1:35:46 And so that builds creativity that builds problem solving that builds divergent thinking, all things that I used in my vocation 25 years later to build weightlifting equipment, because I would look at something for what it could be for, but not what it was.

1:36:01 And so I think those early days of having to figure that stuff out, not being coddled was huge, absolutely vital. And it was so cool that it was, you know, what I heard the other day, they say, well, hey, remember when you're hunting the game gets a vote.

1:36:15 You know, you could do and John Dudley told me their day goes, Hey, just so you know, everything you do right is only 25% of the outcome of hunting.

1:36:24 75% of it, you have zero control over. So if you look at it, you go, okay, if I only get 25% to maybe make this work, give yourself the highest probability, you better be dialed in those 25% because in that 75% it's, it's, it's whether it's the game.

1:36:42 Maybe that deer just decided not to walk that way today. You didn't do anything wrong. He just didn't decide to go that way.

1:36:48 So you start realizing, I have a very finite amount of chances to make this work. So if that's the case, I better be dialed because I don't want to [inaudible] a chance down my leg, because I didn't have my stuff together.

1:37:02 And now all of a sudden, my success potential goes to 10% versus 25 because I wasn't put my stuff together. So I learned that early on.

1:37:11 Dude, there are endless life lessons from hunting and discovering as I get better at it. And just, you, you learn a lot from your failures as well. And also, every time I'm about to take a shot, I think of that one animal that I wounded and never found.

1:37:26 I think about that animal more often than I probably should, but that always makes me, okay, got to make sure I've got my rifle ready to glow that it's clean that I'm sighted in that I don't rush my shot. If I don't have a good shot, I don't take the shot.

1:37:41 Like I'm not going to try to get lucky because I wounded an animal because I rushed a shot. We never found it. And that animal probably met a very, very painful and long demise. And that's my fault.

1:37:50 And so that's just one lesson. But imagine learning those lessons as a kid. And you're not going to be able to maybe connect the dots to that one time when you're in the deer strand getting wet to you preparing for a meeting before you walk into it when you're 45.

1:38:03 But man, it's just there. It's a part of who you are as a person. So I'm a big time advocate for people getting into that and building that out, especially if you have kids that you want to get into that as well.

1:38:13 But Bert, we could talk about a whole lot more stuff. But there's a there's a segment that I like doing towards the end of my show. If you still got a little bit of time, of course, this is my lightning round segment. Okay. It's called, what would you say to someone that said, and then I will fill in the blank.

1:38:27 But here's the deal here. We have rules for this. Okay. I'm setting the standard here. Okay. No matter what I say, you have 30 seconds maximum to give me your answer. So this is meat and potatoes only. I'm going to say, what would you say to someone that said fill in the blank.

1:38:40 You give me your answer. Yep for it. I'm not smart enough for it. Let's go. Let's figure it out along the way. What would you say to someone that said, Bert needs to shave.

1:38:51 No.

1:38:53 That's a good answer. I mean, like, I mean, if I have seconds left, I might agree with you.

1:39:03 I'm not saying it's a great idea. I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I like it in its current iteration. I shortened it so it's a little bit safer. But I enjoy it. And if they don't, if they want to shave, they should shave.

1:39:13 Yeah, it's not going to get wrapped up in a barbell right now. So you're good to go. All right. Next one here. What would you say to someone that said, I can't afford to build out a home gym.

1:39:21 Not everyone can. I'm sorry.

1:39:24 We're not made for everyone. We tried to help as best we can, but we're not going to lower our standard. I would rather someone save up and get the best stuff they could afford, whether it's sore next or not, then buy trash because it never pays off buying trash.

1:39:39 All right. Next one here. What would you say to someone that said, there's no such thing as a third generation successful company.

1:39:47 I tend to agree with them. And I want to try to do what I've done every other point in my life is over produce of expectations. So I'm going to work on my end.

1:39:58 See, you're doing just fine. You were giving yourself no credit before now. Look at you. You're doing amazing. All right, let's keep going. What would you say to someone that said, meat is murder.

1:40:08 Yeah, it is. You have to kill stuff for me.

1:40:11 And depending on how you choose to call murder, you could be part of the life cycle. I'm a part of the life cycle. I have a set of emotional abilities as well as skill sets that allow me to be a part of that process closer to the source than most people.

1:40:28 But if you eat meat in any way or buy any type of leather, you're a hypocrite. You're part of the cycle, whether you want to be or not. What would you say to someone that said, I would work out, but I'm afraid of getting hurt.

1:40:43 Being weak is more painful and a higher probability of getting hurt. Find someone who could teach you properly, slow cook it, try to be strong for a long period of time and don't worry about taking a long period of time to get there.

1:40:56 If you can move the ball one inch down the road every day, you're moving the right direction.

1:41:02 All right, a few more left. What would you say to someone that said, Americans shouldn't be allowed to compete in the Highland games. It's for Scott's only.

1:41:10 I know you've heard that before.

1:41:13 Yeah, well, I will say Americans are really good at it though.

1:41:18 Yeah, they do say that. Well, I think the sport dies if it only stays in one country. And I think Americans have done a lot to promote that whole sport.

1:41:29 And we let the Scots and the Greek Olympics. So.

1:41:33 Hey, and look at it this way. Imagine if Americans didn't let anybody else play baseball, like think of all the great Dominican, Cuban, Japanese players that we've had, like it would be silly to basically the majority of the major league baseball are from those other countries.

1:41:47 Yeah, really good at it. Yeah, it wipes out a lot of Cooperstown. All right, a couple more left. What would you say to someone that said, you shouldn't strength train after the age of 40. It's too dangerous.

1:41:57 I would say that's the most important time in your life to strength train. That is when you're going to have the most benefits over what your basal level of fitness and strength would be.

1:42:05 I think you could change more things at your life at 40 and above and you could be stronger actually than the other time in your life at 40 and above you had the most benefits you'll ever have strength training. You're missing the boat completely if you don't do it.

1:42:17 All right, Bert, we've been everywhere in this conversation. I got one question left for you. What would you say to someone that said, I'm just too busy to exercise.

1:42:25 Cut something outside of your life. You're not prioritizing.

1:42:29 Bert, that is my bugaboo for people. You have guys are like, Oh, I've got a family about a business, whatever. I can't really work out right now. Well, it's like, OK, you're getting the time now, but you're deleting 10 years off the end of your life.

1:42:39 You know, assuming you don't get hit by a bus or attacked by a pack of wolves. So as long as you're OK with that, you know, that trade. Go for it.

1:42:46 Yeah, that's exactly what it is. It's it's a quality trade. And, you know, I haven't really got to train too much in the last month because I've been hunting.

1:42:55 And if I haven't been hunting, I've been working. If I haven't been working, I've been spending time with family and sleeping. I prioritized.

1:43:01 But I know that next week, I'm starting hardcore again because I trained up for this part of the season and I knew I could coast it during that time because when you sleep five hours a night for 50 straight days.

1:43:15 It's, you know, probably an additional stressor of heavy squats is in the great plan. Hey, but you've built a life of resilience. And so it's ability to go back to your base and to build back off that you might come off a little bit on your cardio.

1:43:30 You might come off a little bit on your strength, but you can build yourself back up. You're not having to just completely, you know, erase the whiteboard and then start over.

1:43:37 So, but man, we've covered so much ground in the show. I really appreciate all the time and all the stories and all the different rabbit trails and we went down. But that's all for me. Is there anything else you want to get off your chest?

1:43:45 No, I just very much appreciate you. Let me come on the show and the messaging that you're putting out there and what you're doing for men is absolutely vital. I think it's one of the most important things we could be doing today in our society.

1:43:57 For all you guys listening out there, thank you for for supporting the show. And please keep your eye on the ball and keep your eye on on what really matters in this.

1:44:07 That's a great word. Bert Soren. Thank you for coming on Daunton Life, a man's podcast. Thanks, Kyle.

1:44:12 There you go, guys. Hope you enjoyed my time with Bert Soren. But before I let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost.

1:44:17 Adam Daunton Life, our mission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that for just spiritual, mental and physical resilience. So I've got three links for you today. I've got a link to Bert's website and his Instagram.

1:44:26 But also a link to the Soren X website. Guys, they have tons of gear and tons of amazing stuff on that website. So go there and check it out.

1:44:33 All right, guys. Thanks so much for listening to the show. We do appreciate it. Wherever you listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five star of you.

1:44:40 If you want to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an email to info@andontadotlife.

1:44:45 That's an info@andontadotlife. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way.

1:44:53 Just go to www.andontadotlife. And as always, we want to thank the band August Burns Red for allowing us to use their music for our content.

1:45:00 The music on this podcast is our song, Cutting the Tides, which is off their 10th anniversary re-recording of their album Leveler. The links are in the description.

1:45:07 I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.

1:45:23 It's a heart and a heart, where all you want is a side, nation, and a virtue. You will be revived.