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1:00
This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
1:22
I'm your host Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.
1:25
All right, guys, we've got a special guest on the podcast today.
1:27
His name is Ben Smallbone, so Ben is a film director, producer, and editor.
1:31
He actually directed a 2022 documentary about the faith of Johnny Cash again.
1:35
Yes, if you've listened to my show for any length of time,
1:36
you know how important Johnny Cash is to me.
1:38
And that is called Johnny Cash, the redemption of an American icon.
1:42
And also, he is the director of a new film and series with Angel Studios,
1:46
called Homestead, which, guys, if you were listening to this on time,
1:48
it is coming out in theaters this weekend.
1:50
So December the 20th, 2024, that is this weekend, folks.
1:54
You can go out there and get your tickets for this.
1:55
But in this particular interview, we just get right into the Johnny Cash question.
1:59
Why is he interested in Johnny Cash?
2:01
Why did he get or how did he become part of this project?
2:04
Why were they exploring the faith and the redemptive element,
2:07
you know, specifically as it pertains to the Christian faith of Johnny Cash?
2:10
So anytime I get to talk about Johnny Cash, I get to have a good time with that.
2:12
So we did that, but not also we move on to Homestead.
2:15
So perhaps you've seen some advertisements for this series,
2:18
but this is a film.
2:19
It's a two-hour film, so think of it like a long pilot.
2:22
And then we get into a series.
2:23
And what this is going to be is it's basically the end of the world scenario.
2:27
And you have this group of people that have actually prepared for this scenario,
2:30
and then there's the haves and the have-nots.
2:32
And you know, you have all these different types of characters,
2:35
the super intense characters that don't have compassion,
2:37
but then also the compassionate characters that are kind of
2:39
underheaded and don't make good survivalist decisions.
2:42
But this is a series and a film that looks at our reliance on technology
2:46
and how we kind of worship at the altar of the convenience that technology gives us.
2:50
But also we look at the line and the ever-blurring line between being prepared
2:54
and being paranoid.
2:55
And as people of faith, how do we wrestle with that?
2:57
And then we kind of talked about the different types of characters
3:00
and why certain faith content feels so forced and corny.
3:04
And how does it end up that way?
3:05
And why is Homestead a little bit different?
3:07
But man, we didn't have a whole lot of time today
3:09
because he literally had a red carpet, the ventigo too,
3:11
right after we got done with our interview.
3:13
But I was so glad that we snuck this interview in here for you guys.
3:16
So guys, I'm not going to keep in front of you any longer.
3:18
So without further ado,
3:19
let's get into it.
3:20
Ben, small bone.
3:22
Welcome to "The Life of Man's Podcast."
3:24
Hey, Kyle.
3:25
Thanks for having me on, man.
3:26
It's good having you on now.
3:28
I got to tell you right from the beginning,
3:29
I normally like to weed in, you know, kind of go in kind of slow and be like,
3:32
well, you know, how'd you get into filmmaking and what was it like growing up you and all that?
3:36
But I'm going to skip all that garbage for today
3:38
because you actually made a film about one of my favorite humans
3:43
to have ever walked this earth.
3:44
And that's the one and only Johnny Cash.
3:46
When people ask me, why do I wear all black whenever I present
3:49
in person part of it?
3:50
So you can't see me sweat just in case that's happening.
3:52
And I don't want to have to think about what I'm wearing.
3:54
But also because I grew up being a huge Johnny Cash guy.
3:57
Like I remember listening to Johnny Cash in like middle school and high school.
4:01
Like I was all about including the old stuff,
4:03
not just the American recording.
4:04
So let's start there.
4:06
Yes, you make films.
4:08
Yes, you got in the film industry.
4:09
That's great, Ben.
4:10
But let's start with Johnny Cash, the redemption of an American icon.
4:13
How in the world did you get affiliated with that project?
4:16
And, you know, tell us about it.
4:18
Well, first of all, I am heading to a premiere for Homestead
4:22
right after we get done here.
4:23
And I'm literally wearing all black.
4:26
Same.
4:26
I got a black coat in the back.
4:28
Let's go.
4:29
And, you know, people ask me all the time why many of the same reasons as you.
4:34
But ultimately, a big credit to the man himself, Johnny Cash.
4:39
And gosh, the journey to making Johnny Cash,
4:43
one, I'm impressed you saw it.
4:45
It felt like half of America didn't see it.
4:48
Actually, a majority of Americans didn't see it.
4:50
You know, it's a funny thing releasing a documentary
4:53
into theaters, right?
4:55
You know, who pays money to go watch a two-hour documentary in a theater?
4:58
But anyways, that's beside the subject.
5:02
I am a big fan of Johnny and big fan of redemption.
5:08
And so we were doing a series with the Oren brothers.
5:11
They have a company called Kingdom Story Company.
5:13
I worked with those guys since they made, I can only imagine,
5:17
seven years ago.
5:18
And their main responsibility for me was speaking into all of their films
5:24
and editing on a lot of their films,
5:25
but also directing and editing that documentaries.
5:29
And so I did multiple documentaries with them,
5:31
starting with Steve McQueen, an American icon.
5:34
Yeah.
5:34
Steve McQueen was an actor, big actor in the '60s and '70s,
5:37
tragically passed away from cancer in the '80s.
5:41
And but right before he died, he had an incredible redemption story.
5:45
And we tell that story in the movie.
5:47
And it was wildly successful.
5:49
A lot of people came out and saw it and were like,
5:50
"Hey, we should make this a series."
5:53
And so the original intention was for this to be a series of all of the American icons
6:00
and kind of their faith story or their redemption story, if you will.
6:03
And the next one right after that was Johnny Cash.
6:06
And it was a pretty amazing project.
6:09
It started and stopped over a three-year period of time, multiple times.
6:14
And then we started rushing it because this is kind of morbid,
6:18
but all of Johnny Cash's family and friends started dying,
6:22
because they're all in their '70s, '80s, and '90s.
6:25
And so we're like, "Hey, we're literally going to miss this story
6:29
if we don't high-tail it."
6:30
And we started rushing all over the country,
6:32
filming all of these amazing interviews with many, many people
6:37
to tell the Johnny Cash redemption story.
6:41
And I'm going to be honest with you, I wasn't
6:45
initially super aware of his story.
6:49
I was a fan of him, I was a fan of his music,
6:51
I was a fan of his American recordings.
6:53
But when I dove in and started researching this man
6:59
and seeing how loud he was about his faith the last decade of his life,
7:04
you instantly re-listen to those, especially those last records,
7:09
and everything changes.
7:11
Every lyric that he wrote or every song that he picked that he didn't write,
7:16
all of a sudden made sense.
7:17
And then if you listen to Hurt, through the perspective of a broken man,
7:20
desperate for redemption, as a Christian, gosh, man,
7:24
it was kind of life-changing for me.
7:27
And then we made this amazing discovery of a story
7:30
of him wandering into a cave, pretty much to die.
7:35
That was his plan.
7:36
He had no plans of coming out of that cave and went in.
7:40
And per his recollection, verbally heard God speak to him that I'm not done with you yet.
7:45
And he came out of that cave, a different man,
7:48
and gosh, what a metaphor for all of us, all of us needing redemption.
7:53
One, I mean, let's talk about the American recordings,
7:55
because I remember hearing those recordings before I really knew about his faith journey,
7:58
before I had read any biographies or autobiographies,
8:01
before I knew about the story of the cave and him essentially giving up
8:04
and being like, this is it, being at the end of his rope as a drug addict,
8:07
as a derelict, just another superstar gone too soon was going to be his story.
8:12
And so when you go back and you specifically, I was going to bring up hurt,
8:17
but that's a nine inch nail song, but nobody knows that,
8:20
because even Trenton Reznor who wrote that song said the moment Johnny Cash recorded it,
8:25
it was no longer a nine inch nail song, which to anyone that's heard either version,
8:30
that's clearly and obviously true.
8:32
But what they also don't know about Johnny Cash is that him and June were both like ordained ministers
8:37
towards the end of their life.
8:38
Johnny Cash wrote a book called Man in White.
8:40
I remember getting that, I used copy of it at Hastings in Law in Oklahoma a long time ago.
8:45
And this was a novel that he wrote about the Apostle Paul,
8:48
which again, it's a novel.
8:50
It doesn't have to try to, you know, be Bible or be scripture or be gospel.
8:54
But from his deep understanding of the gospel stories, that's kind of where this came from.
8:59
And also, I remember talking to a guy that was part of the project where he recorded the New Testament,
9:03
right? So whenever he recorded, you know, the entire New Testament,
9:07
they normally assume that people like him are going to want to record for two,
9:10
maybe three hours at a time and then kind of move on.
9:13
And they said all the producers were there for seven, eight, nine hours at a time.
9:17
They would be there until the wee hours of the morning because Johnny just wanted to
9:20
keep going.
9:21
And it was because he was enjoying himself so much.
9:23
It wasn't just that he had this, you know, endless energy to him.
9:26
But I feel like of all the stories that haven't been told about Johnny Cash, Ben,
9:30
it's about redemption, but not just specifically redemption, but the redemption that he found
9:35
in Christ and, you know, the documentary puts a fine point on that.
9:38
So talk to me about really, because you could say redemption, right?
9:42
I remember when Tiger Woods run, one, his first major after basically getting bounced out of the
9:45
sport for, you know, all of his affairs and stuff like that, people were like redemption.
9:49
I'm like, nah, redemption is a theological word.
9:51
He wasn't redeemed. He won a golf, a golf tournament. It's not the same thing.
9:55
So it just feels way different with Johnny. No.
9:57
Yeah, that's, that's remarkable. Like going back to the Stephen McQueen,
10:02
which was my first entry into documentaries, the exclamation mark on his redemption
10:07
in that film to me was, you know, he's a bad dude.
10:14
He had broken a lot of people. He had, you know, being married multiple times.
10:19
He had hurt pretty much everybody that ever got close to him in his life.
10:23
And Steve McQueen in his, you know, months before he was dying as part of his redemption process,
10:32
spent weeks reaching out to every single person in his life that he felt like he had wronged at
10:37
some point and asked for forgiveness and apologize for the wrongs that he had done.
10:43
And then took it a step further and explained why he was so passionate about reaching out to them
10:49
and that God had done something in his, in his life. You know, to me, you know, Johnny has numerous
10:56
stories like that, including, you know, reaching out to his ex-wife and apologizing for the things
11:03
they had done, the things he had said, the way he had treated her, you know, rebuilt a lot of
11:09
relationships with his kids that took a lot of hard work and then, you know, became an ordained
11:17
minister. And through that restarted his ministry to prisoners, you know, fellow, fellow addicts and
11:23
broken people that desperately needed a new chance at life. And what you don't see in a lot of those
11:28
performances in the prisons later in his life was that he preached the gospel. Yeah, he didn't just
11:35
go in there and perform songs. Yeah, he did that. But when the cameras turned off, he sat there in
11:39
front of them and told them his redemption story and what God had done in his life. And he was loud
11:45
about the gospel all the way till the end. And whether it was in his music or in the way that he
11:51
treated people, and gosh, I got to sit up with a lot of people, whether it's, you know, some intern
11:56
that worked with him for a summer or somebody he ran into at a grocery store or a restaurant,
12:01
we got to sit and hear story after story after story of like when you were in the present of Johnny
12:06
Cash, there was nobody else in the room. And you were one of the most important people in that
12:11
moment in his life. And he, you know, he, he lived and breathed the gospel in every situation that he
12:18
could. And that's what I call redemption. Yeah, I absolutely believe that. And as you're describing
12:24
him, Ben, it reminds me of someone that I know that's going through a little bit of a rough time
12:27
right now. And that's Phil Robertson of Duck Dynasty fame and things like that. The gospel just oozes
12:33
out of that man. And he, he has so many stories that have not been told on television, that have
12:39
not been told on the podcast of just him sharing the good news of Jesus Christ with just random people.
12:44
Like people traveled to West Monroe, Louisiana, because until recently Phil Robertson would teach
12:49
Sunday school every single Sunday air and in whoever wanted to come could come. And you know,
12:55
they would have people come from states away, hundreds of miles, thousands of miles, potentially,
13:00
just to hear the man talk about Sunday school, but guess what everything went back to? Not some obscure
13:04
Greek phrase or something interesting about an Old Testament story, not that those things are not
13:09
important, but it was always about the gospel, it was about the redemption message of the propitiation
13:14
of our sin debt at the cross of Jesus Christ. And so, you know, there's, I didn't get a chance
13:18
to meet Johnny Cash, but I'm assuming Phil Robertson and Johnny would have gone along well,
13:22
because they were both morons and losers, and they'd be the first ones to admit that. And they've gone
13:26
back to be fully redeemed. But now we need to get to today, because today, like you said earlier,
13:32
you're about to go to a red carpet event for Homestead, which again, guys, I said this in the
13:36
introduction, this comes out this weekend in theaters. Okay, so go to the show notes, you can go to the
13:40
website, get your tickets, check that out. So let's just talk, let's just fly over the series,
13:45
and then we'll kind of get down into it, because I was able to actually watch it ahead of time,
13:48
because ha ha ha, better than all of you guys listening to this right now, just kidding.
13:52
But I got to watch it. So I have some specific questions that will not give away any spoilers.
13:56
But let's do a 30,000 foot view. What is this film about?
13:59
Well, Homestead is a unique spin on the end of the world. You know, so much of the last decade
14:09
of kind of end of world post-apocalyptic films is either being zombies, or, you know, people
14:15
vanishing and leaving their clothes behind. This is not that. This is kind of, you know,
14:21
it's not really based on anything in revelations, you know, maybe pre-tribulation, if at all. But
14:27
the main story, the inciting incident is a bomb goes off in Los Angeles, and all of these people
14:35
flee into the Colorado Rockies to a homestead that this millionaire has built for this exact moment.
14:42
And so hundreds of people flee, they're pre-invited to the Homestead as part of the Homestead Club,
14:48
and they race there for protection and safety and resources. And they quickly realize that the
14:54
people inside the gate are just as dangerous as the people outside the gate, and all of this drama
14:59
and conflict starts to happen. And it's mainly built around the Homestead Prepper who built the
15:04
place. And actor Bailey Chase plays a guy named Jeff, who is a special forces soldier, and only
15:11
knows violence. That is the way that he's protected his family. That's the way he's protected the
15:15
country. And he thinks that's the only way to protect the Homestead going forward. And that is
15:21
dramatically against the ideals of the more peaceful farmers, homesteaders that think that
15:28
there's got to be a better way. So you take all of these ideas, all of these faith backgrounds,
15:34
and you collide them into one place at the Homestead, and it creates some really interesting drama
15:40
that we explore in the film and in the series going forward. So I want to talk about that. That
15:47
canes. Well, actually, let's talk about that, because whenever I was watching the film, I remember
15:53
hearing because I'd got some other emails from Angel Studios that there was going to be a series,
15:57
but I didn't know if they were connected or joined. But this is a film that serves as the jump off
16:03
point for a series. And so sometimes people, you'll watch something like that, and you'll be like,
16:08
"Oh my gosh, there's so much left unsaid." But yeah, that's kind of the point with this. But why do
16:12
that? Why not just do what everyone does, which is, "All right, this is season one. It'll release
16:17
on this date, or we'll release an episode at a time for this many weeks." Well, it's funny because
16:21
we've already been able to pre-read some reviews that are coming out. And somebody missed the
16:29
note about it being a kickoff for a series or a long pilot, because there's a lot of these reviews
16:34
are like, "There's so many unanswered questions. What were the filmmakers thinking? Well, the plan
16:38
always was this was going to be a series." It's 11 books. It's based off a book series called
16:43
the Black Autumn series. There's 11 books in the series. The first season is the first book.
16:49
And so we went into it knowing there was going to be a series. Well, then SAG and Union Strike
16:56
happened right in the midst of us getting ready to film. And at the time, SAG, which represents
17:01
Screen Actors Guild, represents all of the good actors in the world, including Neil McDonough,
17:06
Don, and Bailey Chase, who are the actors in the film, only was allowing movies to be made.
17:14
That was the only exemption that they're making. Low budget films would be approved
17:18
on the SAG exemption. So we were like, "Hmm, we want to make something. We have the money to make
17:24
something. Angels behind us. Let's go to these guys and let's see if they will give us an exemption
17:30
for making a film instead of the series." So what we did is we took the first two episodes
17:38
of the series, merged them into one long script. And that's what you see in theaters today.
17:45
Now, as soon as the movie ends, there's a QR code that comes up. And if you scan it,
17:50
then you can watch the next two episodes of the series. And guys, I'm going to tell you this
17:55
right now. The movie's great. Super proud of it. The series in my mind blows the movie away.
18:01
It allows us, because it's now in series format, we go a lot deeper in the stories. The characters
18:08
are already set up. The world's already built. So now we can sit in the world a little bit longer
18:12
without having to invest an hour setting up 28 different characters in the film. So I'm really,
18:20
really excited for people to see this thing. Hey, guys, real quick. I know a lot of you guys
18:26
are really doing everything you can to have a consistent workout routine. But the problem is,
18:30
is you work out at a global gym. And so there's 17 guys on the bench that you need. And there's
18:34
people doing bicep curls on the squat rack. And the biggest problem is not your schedule. It's
18:38
actually where you're trying to get your work in. How about you guys stop making excuses and build
18:43
yourself a home gym. And when you do, make sure you use Sorenex. So Sorenex is a family owned and
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operated business that build some of the most impressive workout facilities in the entire world.
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They built gyms for teams in the NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, and even the UFC. They've also built gyms for
19:03
some of the biggest and most successful collegiate and high school athletic programs in the country.
19:07
But in addition to that, they make the highest quality home gym products that I've ever seen on
19:13
the market. In my personal home gym, I have the Sorenex outfit or rack, the heavy version in military
19:19
green. Also, I have some of their center mass bells. I've got their Nordic glute ham developer
19:24
and their patented landmine attached to my rack. So guys, stop fighting the riff wrath at your local
19:30
gym or bench or squat rack or whatever. And if you're going to build out a home gym,
19:35
you may as well get one that will last you and one that you could even pass down to your kids.
19:40
Begin your build out by going to sorenex.com. That is Sorenex.com. S-O-R-I-N-E-X.com. Take control
19:48
of where and when you work out Sorenex.com. Yeah. And you're putting this out with Angel Studios.
19:54
I started been mentioned several times in this podcast. So what was it like working with Angel?
19:58
Because obviously, Angel, most people are familiar with them because of the chosen.
20:01
The chosen is no longer with Angel Studios, but they put out some other things, the Bonhoeffer
20:05
film, and they've done some great works. What was it like working with them?
20:09
So the biggest frustration as a filmmaker is always having to work with
20:16
a studio and executives and they don't always know their audience. Well, the audience for Angel
20:23
Studios is the members of what they call the Angel Guild. So they have hundreds of thousands
20:29
of members on their streaming platform and they get to vote on the content that gets to be approved.
20:34
It's not six guys in suits sitting at a boardroom voting on what they're going to make or what
20:39
they're not going to make. So what we ended up doing almost two years ago is we created a proof of
20:43
concept. It was seven and a half minutes. It's actually the beginning of the film that you got
20:49
to see. And we presented that to the Guild and to Angel Studios and we got approved. And not only
20:56
do we get approved, they did a crowd fund and raised $1.5 million that ended up going towards
21:00
the budget of the movie to get the series off the ground. And so working with them is being a
21:08
beautiful thing because they're a distributor. They have an audience, they have a built-in audience,
21:12
and the audience keeps us accountable to making sure that what we're creating is amplifying light.
21:18
And at the end of the day, we answer to hundreds of thousands of people that we want to do invite
21:24
into the process in many ways and be a part of the marketing of the film and seeing the film in
21:30
theaters. And so we're not answering or meeting with some executive suits in Hollywood where literally
21:42
our boss is the masses, our boss is the people. And that's being really, really fun. And honestly,
21:50
it's allowed us a lot of flexibility in the creative process to do things that otherwise,
21:55
through the studio system, would be impossible. And honestly, I don't think Homestead would exist
22:02
if it wasn't for the way that Angel Studios is doing things. One, Angel Studios seems to be on the
22:09
on the cutting edge on a lot of these things. You even think recently, look at the last election
22:13
we had in America and they all time low faith in the mainstream media and their native narratives
22:18
and and newspapers and things like that. But it was alternative media like podcasts and
22:22
you know, these streaming platforms that you have to pay for that people are flocking to to get
22:26
their information, their unbiased information, their long form information. And so it looks like
22:30
the media landscape and the entertainment landscape is certainly changing, which actually relates to
22:35
the first thing that said in the film, I actually want to read the very first thing that is said,
22:40
it's one of the main characters that everybody gets to know does a voice over at the beginning
22:43
of the film. And it says technology has become our God and we worshiped at the altar of convenience
22:49
and ease. So what's interesting about that phrase is it doesn't it didn't say we worship,
22:54
it says we worshiped at the altar of convenience and ease. And so it's providing some foreshadowing
23:00
as to what we're about to see there in the beginning of the film. But I think most people,
23:04
even if you are addicted to your phone, you realize that yes, you like the fact that you can go to
23:08
your phone in 30 seconds later, you have food on its way to you. You don't even have to put pants on
23:14
anymore. You can just live your entire life in this box and COVID taught us that and all those
23:18
different things. And obviously, that is a through point of some of the narratives and some of the
23:24
things that you're exploring in the human condition throughout the film. But but why start there? It
23:28
doesn't seem accidental to me. Yeah, it's, it's funny because I've seen this movie at this point,
23:36
hundreds of times. So I actually forgot that that line is is that early in the first few minutes.
23:44
The character is it's a voiceover that you're referencing. And the character that's reading
23:50
that is reading it after the world has collapsed. And so she's looking back at what we came from.
23:58
Look, I am a man that's full of technology. Like if you looked around me right now, I have multiple
24:05
computers in front of me. I have two cell phones. You know, I got my air pods in my ears. I got
24:11
expensive laptop right in front of me. But I had a unique experience this summer, my son's
24:16
turning 13. And we did a becoming a man trip to Alaska. And for two weeks, I had zero cell service.
24:25
No connection to the outside world is just me and my son in God's creation. And guys, talk about a
24:32
life changing moment, not only for him, but for me, that is such a rarity in this world. And one of
24:39
the really interesting conversations that we have and that we kind of take a few of through on the film
24:44
is all of these things that we need for comfort and our ease. What happens when you take all that
24:52
away? If you removed everything that we rely on to make it through the day that we expect,
25:00
not only expect, but we need for our own happiness, what if all that's taken away and it actually
25:05
makes you a better person? What if embracing the simple things, the foundation of what made
25:11
this country great and, you know, connecting more with your family and your community and growing
25:18
plants and understanding God's creation and animals? When you take everything away, that's the reality
25:26
is you're going to have to lean more into the way that I believe God probably intended us to live,
25:31
more connected to his creation. And so I think the writers really want to make sure that we made
25:40
that statement all the way in the front side of it. And honestly, we've used it in trailers,
25:44
we use it in the proof of concept. People seem to really, really connect to this idea of
25:49
technology has become out God. And in so many ways, we worshiping it, even me, you know, a Christian,
25:57
almost my entire life and pursuing God daily. I'm also pursuing technology and my phone. And
26:06
there's something about, you know, opening it up and feeling interconnected to people, but it's fake.
26:11
It's a majority of that is fake. And you take it all away, and I'm telling you what I experienced
26:16
this summer in Alaska was a beautiful thing that if God forbid something tragic did happen and we
26:23
lose all of that technology and we lose electricity and running water, I think there would be a lot
26:28
of people that come out the other side going, I don't want to go back to the old ways. This is a
26:32
beautiful, a beautiful tragedy. And that's something that you explore within Homestead,
26:37
certainly within the film that I watched. But there are many themes that are explored or at
26:42
least set up in the film. And one of those, I guess you could say is the line and the ever
26:48
thinning line between being prepared and being paranoid, because I know people that are both,
26:55
I know people that are pretty well prepared, you can't be prepared for all situations,
26:59
right? But I have some people that are pretty well prepared and I'm okay with those things.
27:02
And then there are people that are flat out paranoid. And I'm like, I'm wondering where
27:06
you're storing up your treasure, because then there are people that are not even taking their
27:09
faith or their pursuit of God seriously, but they're digging trenches and putting a barbed wire in
27:14
the edges of their property and getting their latest, they're just setting up all these different
27:19
things. And it's like, guys, even if you're the best of all chimps, you're still going to die and
27:23
all you've done is collected all this stuff for the next chimp, right? That's going to find your
27:27
spot. And so it's like, you're spending all this time worried about this world and none on the next
27:32
world and none on cultivating a good relationship with your wife and catacizing your children and
27:38
we're bringing them up in the worship in the abdomen, admonition of the Lord and all those
27:41
different things like, gosh, where are we spending all of our time? And so where is the series going
27:46
to go as it pertains to that line? Because you can feel the tension between some of the characters
27:51
in the film of that line between prepared and paranoid. Yeah, gosh, this is probably my 10th
27:58
or 11th interview, Kyle. And that is by far the best question I've gotten so far. So congratulations.
28:04
Oh, guys, go metal. Yeah, I wish I had a more of a moment to ponder that. But let me give you my
28:11
gut instinct. And then I'll tell you where we go a little bit in the series without giving too much
28:15
away. You know, not living in fear is one of the consistent themes of the Bible, right? And so,
28:25
yeah, it's really unique when you see these hardcore preppers. And I know a lot of them and I've met
28:29
even more through the process of making the film. And you know, world ends, I'm going to be at their
28:36
place. I'm running and knocking on their gate begging for them to let me in. And so, yeah,
28:43
where is the balance between not living in fear and being prepared for the worst? And the reality
28:52
is, is when I talked to a lot of these preppers, the first thing they say is, I don't live in fear
28:56
because I am prepared. And taking it even a step further, the homestead where we filmed the film
29:04
is a real preppers dream. I mean, it's fortified as a million rounds of ammunition. A lot of things
29:11
that we say in the movie actually exist at the homestead. And this gentleman, I asked him pretty
29:17
much posed the same question that you just posed to me. And he said, hey, this is not just to protect
29:23
me and my family. I want all of this stuff. So I can protect my neighbor. And I can love on my
29:31
community. And the plan is it's not just him and his, you know, beautiful kids and wife,
29:37
hold up in this, this mansion, if all things fall apart. He is inviting hundreds of his closest
29:43
friends, relatives, people that add value, doctors and nurses, you know, special four soldiers to come
29:51
to the homestead to build a community to protect each other. And he doesn't look at it as a selfish
29:59
thing. He looks at it as a beautiful way of taking care of the people that he loves. And then he
30:05
holds dear. So, you know, there's definitely a balancing act there. As we get into the series,
30:09
it's definitely explored more. There's a lot of haves and have nots. There's a lot of characters
30:15
within the homestead that want to take care of more and more of the people outside. But then
30:21
what's the consequences there, right? So think about it from our perspective, we're called the
30:25
love out neighbor. But if your neighbor is sick, or if your neighbor is going to require eating up
30:32
a lot of your resources, how do you do that? It's easy to be kind and gracious when we have plenty,
30:37
which we do right now. You take all that away. All of a sudden, a neighbor that you met at a,
30:42
you know, a party a few weeks ago, or in the circumstance of the film, they helped the homeless
30:48
together. Now he's desperate. His family's desperate. He's at the gate. What do you do
30:53
in that in that scenario? And so I think these kinds of questions, we don't have all the answers,
30:57
Kyle. And I don't know if we'll know a lot of the answers of these life's biggest questions
31:02
until we're faced with the situation or on the other side of heaven. But we pose a lot of these
31:09
questions. And I think it's going to lead to a lot of really interesting conversation,
31:13
just like you and I have right now. I mean, you, you guys made us feel the tension of that moment,
31:20
specifically the moment you described at the gate of the homestead. And I remember even having
31:24
these discussions in in my MBA program, where it was just after a hurricane, and there were guys
31:29
like in Ohio that, you know, filled up U halls full of, full of generators and things like that.
31:37
And they drove down to Louisiana and they were selling them at a premium. And the class was
31:42
literally split. Half the class was like, that's horrible. That person should be in prison. Like
31:45
that's the worst thing ever. And then there was the other half, which was like me, which was like,
31:48
look, that generator is a luxury item. It's like it wasn't two degrees outside. Like it was,
31:54
it was 70 degrees and sunny. Like, I mean, this was not like they needed that generator. And so,
31:59
but again, I could see the argument of both sides. But y'all did make us feel that tension. But also,
32:04
there's a tension that is created, which again, I was glad to know that it doesn't just go stop
32:08
at the film. It continues on to a series because there's a bunch of different kinds of characters.
32:13
So you have the super intense, you know, former spec ops, military guy that's long on survival,
32:18
instincts and skill, but short on compassion. You have the rich prepper guy that has a lot of
32:22
resources, but perhaps, you know, doesn't have the mindset that survival requires at all times.
32:28
You got the rich prepper's wife who has a big heart, but is pretty naive. You have the desperate
32:33
father that's obviously loving of his family, but it isn't prepared for the worst of worst
32:38
situations. Then you got the doofy father who seems more concerned about entertaining himself
32:43
than than taking care of his family. So you have all these guys that you could either see yourself
32:48
in or see yourself hating if you were in that situation. And so, I guess, is that what the series
32:54
is going to do? Is it's going to lead us to some, you know, some conclusion on all these types of
33:00
people? Is it going to try to moralize to us about who the good ones are and who the good ones are
33:04
not? Like, where is this going to go? Yeah, that's not that's not our responsibility.
33:09
In terms of, you know, answering all the questions, I think as as filmmakers, the most
33:16
interesting films that I've ever watched, they pose really great deep life questions. And but
33:22
they don't give you the answers, right? You know, what I love about the series is I'm an outsider,
33:30
born and raised in Australia. I lived there until the 90s and then moved here, been here for almost
33:34
three years. And hopefully you can still hear a little bit of my accent, but it's fading. It's
33:39
still there. It's on the ends of your sentences when you get a little lazy. Okay, lazy. It's good.
33:45
I'll try to be more lazy. I want to retain it as much as I can. So from an outsider's perspective,
33:53
you know, America is in a moment unlike anything, probably since the Civil War. I mean, United is
34:00
literally in the title of our country, a great country. And I'm a citizen here now. So I can I
34:07
can celebrate. It's really a land of opportunity. It's it's given me and my family, everything we
34:12
could want and imagine and more. But the country is divided. You look at the recent election, you look
34:19
at, you know, threats from other countries, whether it's what's going on in the Middle East or Russia.
34:26
We are heading into a period of time, unlike no other. And what I love about Homestead is talk
34:36
about where we are as as a society of hundreds of people from different backgrounds, different
34:42
ideals, violence is the only way to pieces the only way, all colliding in a place together and
34:50
trying to figure out how to celebrate our similarities instead of our differences. That's the story
34:55
going forward. We again, we don't answer all the questions. There's a there's a faith element that's
35:00
pretty subtle in the movie that gets pretty loud as we get further and further into it.
35:04
And I'm really excited about it, because to me, Kyle, the most interesting art, I mean, Jesus told
35:12
parables that were abstract and metaphorical. And you know, some of them were hard to interpret,
35:17
and you have to really dive in them to understand what he's trying to say. What's the modern day
35:23
version of that? And there's a lot of those elements within the series that I think the audience is
35:31
going to love, whether they're inside the church or outside. And I think there's a really interesting
35:36
opportunity for people that would never set foot in church to sit and watch this series
35:41
and be impacted by the questions that were posing that allow them to have conversations with their
35:47
Christian friend or allow them to have conversations with their atheist friend. We have an atheist that
35:52
shows up in the series. And she is rocked by what she's experiencing. And through that lens of her
35:59
atheism is able to ask life's biggest questions. And I can't wait for people to to see and meet her,
36:06
because it's, it's really, really powerful stuff. Well, Ben, I want to ask you, I was going to ask
36:10
you about the faith element. So obviously there is a faith element in the film. It's very interesting
36:14
to hear you say that it's going to be basically non subtle as we move along. But I find it interesting,
36:20
even as you talk about the atheist character, when situations get dire, atheists tend to have
36:25
their non faith shaken, because they're like, wait a minute, maybe I'm not just a highly evolved
36:30
chimp that learned language and wears pants. Okay, and then you have people of faith that have
36:35
their faith shaken. And then they're like, Oh my gosh, I think I still believe in God, but do I
36:40
still believe that he's good? And so it's like no matter which side of the ledger you're on,
36:45
it's the dire situation that becomes the problem. Because again, when things are air conditioned
36:50
and completely controlled and super convenient, you don't have to wrestle with give us this day
36:56
our daily bread. But if you're literally in that position, it becomes a major issue. So talk a
37:00
little bit more about about the faith element and how Homestead is going to deal with that.
37:05
Wow, I love what you said there. When you're on the precipice of life and death, it doesn't
37:13
know it doesn't matter where you're from or what you're upbringing as or whether you're rich or poor,
37:18
whether you're prepared or not. Those life and death questions all of a sudden become incredibly
37:26
important. And gosh, what an organic way to have those conversations by setting up a world where at
37:32
any moment, any day, death is right around the corner. And we and we do that. We do that in the
37:39
movie fairly subtly. And then in the series, as we get into it, I can think of a scene in
37:44
episode two, where again, as the atheist questioning her, her belief, or unbelief,
37:55
in a world of pain and death and sickness, she sees God's hand moving in ways that are
38:04
unexplainable to her. And the exact opposite of that, you have Jenna, who is the Homestead owner's
38:13
wife, who built the the the the proper fortress, if you will, she's constantly questioning where
38:23
is God in all of this, the God that I that she has served her entire life. Now she's
38:29
witnessing such despair and sadness and death. Where is he in all of that? I again, I don't want
38:35
to give away too much. Yeah, I've already already risked a few things going forward. But know that
38:41
it's a looming conversation. And it's and it's an organic conversation. It doesn't feel forced so
38:47
much faith based content on the film side. A lot of the faith messaging feels forced,
38:54
because the people are in life and death situations where they're asking these questions. And because
39:00
it's an end time thriller, I'm telling you, if it was a real situation, a lot of people are going
39:07
to be coming to you and I and trying to ask those questions about what we believe and why we believe
39:13
it because in those moments where you take away all the conference and ease of of life,
39:19
it opens up an opportunity for God to move in ways that unexplainable other than the miraculous.
39:26
And we see that in the film. Yeah, and Ben, I would say that even in addition to that,
39:31
you know, a lot of people say, Hey, oh, that Christian film was corny. They're not actually
39:35
communicating that's corny. They're communicating that it felt inauthentic, right? And we live in an
39:40
era where if we can smell inauthenticity, like you're covered in diarrhea, like if like, or at least
39:47
I feel like the people that I'm around can, it's just like, it's just you reek of just your this
39:53
is fake, you're fake, you don't mean what you're saying. And that's doubly worse if you were claiming
39:58
faith and not just faith, but exclusive faith, not like, Hey, I have faith and I can just add it to
40:03
whatever the faith you have. That's that's not real. But if you say, no, no, no, Jesus is the
40:07
only way to God. But then also you have this, this inauthentic message, that's that's a really
40:11
bad idea. And so for me, I think it's because it is force you use the word forced. And when you
40:18
force it, you've got to wrap this thing up in 95 to 120 minutes. And you know, if if the person
40:24
doesn't get the girl in the end, and if the business doesn't actually work out, then we don't
40:27
want to watch that film because it makes us sad, it gives us the sads on the way out the door.
40:31
And I just don't feel like we're getting that with homestead. There are always some things in the
40:35
first couple hours right with the with the film where I was like, all right, well, they're burning
40:39
the ships on this one, let's go. So like, I like that you guys don't seem to be playing it safe.
40:43
And I'm happy to know that it gets more intense. But I will leave my questions about homestead
40:47
there so that we don't get into spoiler land. So I know you got a red carpet to go to and I
40:51
want to leave some meat on the bone for guys to go to the website and pick up their own tickets.
40:54
Last question I'll ask you today, Ben is what's next? Like, I know if if homestead takes off,
41:00
there's going to be multiple seasons and all that. Know something you haven't told anybody. Okay,
41:04
I want to know like there's a project because I know you got one, Ben. There's a project in the
41:08
back of your head right now where you're just like, man, if if this homestead thing absolutely takes
41:12
off and if I get to maybe get to take a risk in a studio or angels like, all right, we'll give you
41:17
a little bit of rope on this one, Ben, because you hit such a good home run. What's that project
41:21
where you're like, ah, that's the what that's the one I want to work on.
41:26
So there's two, one that I can talk about. Okay. In 2019, we developed a film called
41:35
Drummer Boy. When I say we, me and my brothers wrote a script. It's set during the Civil War.
41:43
It follows two brothers that get separated on the opposite sides of the battlefield
41:46
and their journey back to each other. Well, in 2020, the world blew up and not only did it blow
41:54
up because of COVID, there was a lot of racial issues, gone with the wind, got pulled off of
42:00
Netflix. There was a lot of Civil War statues in southern cities that got torn down Confederate
42:07
statues. And the big studio that was initially behind it got a little nervous. And so we paused
42:17
it, put it on hold. And I'm telling you, it's the best script I've ever written. It's a musical,
42:22
which a lot of people don't like musicals, including me. But guys, it is the best music
42:29
that my brothers have ever made set to an incredible story. And we were this close to filming it
42:37
in Romania and then throughout the South. And then again, the world blew up. So, you know,
42:43
when I hear you, you know, asking your question, what's anything that I would love if any studio
42:49
jumped at the idea of like, Hey, what's your dream and passion here? It would be that project.
42:54
It would get me back working with my brothers. We have worked together on and off for decades
42:59
and always love working with them. And the hope would be that that is looming in 2025
43:07
or 2026 sometime in the next two years. But yeah, you're right. If the movie does well in theaters
43:13
and the episodes that we have already shot release and people respond to it, the next year most
43:20
likely will be eaten up entirely with Homestead. And, you know, I'd love that too.
43:26
Okay, very good. Well, Ben, we've been able to weave in and out some good stuff here. I've really
43:32
enjoyed our time together. But that's all for me. Is there anything else you want to get off your
43:34
chest? No, guys, outside of the theatrical release December 20th, it's a big deal. You know, I know
43:44
people overstated all the time. It's not overstated. The the the weekend of release for film
43:50
is absolutely pivotal for more projects like this. And if it doesn't do well, I'm telling you,
43:56
nobody will try and in times thriller anytime soon in the in the faith-based world, at least for
44:03
for years to come. So coming out as in droves and supporting the film will allow us to make
44:09
more of the series and more projects like that. And I do think that, you know, Christians oftentimes
44:15
create art the way we wish the world was and not the way the world really is. And this kind of,
44:22
you know, PG-13, a little more gritty, a little more dark content has oftentimes within the
44:28
face base being avoided. And so if people don't come out and see this, we'll be be back to, you know,
44:35
prettier, easier stories. And so my hope is, you know, rally the troops. Let's get out there
44:42
and support this thing. And and hopefully we can continue the story down the road.
44:48
Yeah, I echo that it was the same pitch with Bonhoeffer. It's like, guys, I'm drawn to things
44:52
that are more dark. I don't want the happy ending. I want people to end bloody somehow. And so like,
44:57
I'm drawn to the things where it's not just so cute and neat and tidy. And guys, you have to vote
45:02
with your dollars. It's not just your attention. It's also with your dollars. Guys, it is in the
45:06
show notes. Check it out. Ben, best of luck. We'll talk again soon. Hey, thank you. Great to check out.
45:11
There you go, guys. I hope you enjoyed my time with Ben's small bone. But before I let you go,
45:16
we are going to do a quick resilience boost. Add an adult to life remission is equipping men to
45:19
pushback darkness with content that forages, spiritual, mental and physical resilience. The
45:22
only link I've got for you today is a link to where you can go and check out showtimes in your
45:26
area for Homestead. Guys, check it out this weekend. Thank you for listening to this podcast.
45:30
Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five-star review.
45:35
If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, shoot me an email to info
45:39
at undonton.life. That's i-n-f-o at undonton.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook
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and check out our website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like
45:47
this coming your way. Just go to www.undonton.life. And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name
45:53
for allowing us to use their music for our content. The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua,
45:58
which is off their self-titled debut album on Face Down Records. The links are in the description.
46:02
I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual,
46:09
mental and physical resilience. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
46:39
you