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This is Undaunted Life Man's podcast. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it.
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Our guys today, we've got a very special guest on the podcast. His name is Azizoula Aziz.
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So he is a native of Afghanistan. He's served the United States for 15 years as a JSOC.
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That's a joint special operations command, combat interpreter, facilitator and cultural
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advisor. And he served side by side with Chad Robachow on his eight JSOC deployments
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in Afghanistan. Guys, we just talked to Chad Robachow earlier this week to talk about
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everything that's gone on with Aziz. Obviously, the crazy situation that happened in Afghanistan
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and then, you know, obviously, if you read the book and even go to that interview that
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we did earlier this week, Chad credits Aziz was saving his life on multiple occasions in
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the book. He actually elucidates three of those. And he's the Aziz. That's the main
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subject matter of the new book, saving Aziz, how the mission to help one became a calling
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to rescue thousands from the Taliban. So I just want to read this quick thing from the
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dedication section of the book here, because I think it's, you know, applicable to what
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we're going to be talking about today. To the brave Afghan allies who fought courageously
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alongside us for 20 years, we will never forget the sacrifices you all made for the free
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Afghanistan and are for a free Afghanistan and for security around the world. Your sacrifices
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and dedicated service have earned each of you the right for an opportunity to live free
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in America. And I'm sorry our government has failed you through a broken system. We will
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never forget you. And so obviously, there's a whole lot of things that go into even just
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that one quick statement. But with a guy like Aziz, in this interview, we talk about what
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was it like growing up in Afghanistan? And for any of you guys out there that are struggling
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with being thankful, right? Thankful for the stuff you have for where you live. Make sure
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you pay really close attention to the first five or 10 minutes of our interview today,
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because he goes into a lot of detail about what it was like growing up in up in Afghanistan.
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And I'm going to assume it wasn't the same as your upbringing. But then we get into a
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lot of other things we get into, you know, why learn to English, you know, what his thoughts
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were about the United States. Was he really even aware of the United States growing up?
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What he thought when the United States military invaded Afghanistan after the 9/11 attacks
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to try and take out the Taliban and al Qaeda, you know, I asked him whether or not he ever
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considered joining a terrorist organization because some people in Afghanistan immediately
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were going to help the Americans and others were like, well, I'm going to join these guys
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because, you know, they'll keep me safe and, you know, they'll eventually outlast the American.
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So we get into that. We got into, you know, the SIV process he went through to try to
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get to America, but then he spends a lot of time describing just how he was able to get
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out of Afghanistan. Because it wasn't just a matter of like calling his buddy Chad and
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being like, oh, you're going to pick me up at this place. Okay, we'll just meet you there.
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Every time he tried to escape Afghanistan, the Taliban basically got in his way. And it
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was a miracle that the Taliban didn't kill him multiple times as he was trying to escape
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with his family. And we go into all that detail here. But then at the end, you know, we go
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through, obviously the evacuation, him coming to the United States, but he's here with his
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immediate family, but he left his parents, his brothers, his sister, his, you know, nieces
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and nephews behind in Afghanistan. And you know, we talked through what that's like because
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they just couldn't find a way to get everybody out. But obviously the Taliban knows that that
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is a zeezus family. And the Taliban again, they're trying to pitch you with this idea,
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the Biden administration that this is some reformed Taliban, like, Oh, they wear suits
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and ties. So they're not chopping off people's heads and rolling them down the sidewalk. And
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so it's just a little bit of a different scenario. But we spend just so much time. And as I'm
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listening to this, he goes off and starts describing these things. And just I want to challenge
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you during this interview, because he speaks tremendous English. He's very engaging in
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the things that he's saying. But just think about how different his mindset has to be
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now that he's in America. For most of you listening to this podcast, you've been in a
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Western country your entire life. You've never had to worry about walking through, you know,
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a field and stepping on a landmine, why why you're playing as a child. You've never had
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to worry about somebody driving into your neighborhood on the, you know, on motorbikes
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and then shooting their AK 47 in the air and then deciding on a whim whether or not they're
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going to kill you and then rape your family or rape your family first and then kill you.
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So that's the last memory that you have before they took your life, right? I mean, you've
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never had to reckon with that level of depravity and evil. And we do get into that and at the
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end, I have him describe some of the things he saw just so we can really drive home. What
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exactly we're dealing with when we're talking about groups like the Taliban. So I really,
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really enjoyed my time with Aziz. So without further ado, let's get into it.
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Aziz Zula Aziz, welcome down to life of man's podcast. Thank you. Thank you for having
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me. Asalaamu alaykum wa alaykum asalaam. She door hasty. Who was them? Wow, you're speaking
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good Persian. I'm doing my absolute best. And I was ready for you to say oob hasty back.
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And I was going to say who so I'm like, I'm doing my absolute best here. So that's about
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the extent of my was that far seed that I don't even know what language I just said
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that in. Yeah, it's far sea version. Okay, very good. Well, that is what Chad told me
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to say because I literally text Chad about a day ago and I'm like, Hey, man, I want to
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like catch him off guard with a greeting or something like that. And so give it up to Chad
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Robocho for that. But man, we're so glad to have you on the show today. And we're going
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to be talking about a lot about your story and about your life. And you know, certainly
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we'll get into the stuff that's in the book, Saving Aziz. Obviously you are the Aziz that
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everyone's talking about. But I think one thing that would be a great place for us to
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start would be for you to set the tone for us like, what was it like growing up in Afghanistan?
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I only know what it was like growing up in Oklahoma in the middle of the United States
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of America. So just give us a general idea of what it was like growing up there. Well,
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thank you very much for having me. It's my pleasure to meet you and you really surprised
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me by speaking the Persian. There you go. And growing in Afghanistan was full of hardship,
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difficulties, hunger, famine, not very much resources, very bad economical situations.
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Like I remember when I was a very young kid at my seven or eight, we used to play in the
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Russian tanks, the Russian leftovers. I remember my friends from the childhood that they stepped
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on the land mines and they were blue and up near to the village that we left north of
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Kabul. There was a cemetery. So this cemetery was full of mines at the leftovers from the
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Mujahideen and the Russians. We were just kids. We had no idea what's coming to us if we
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stepped in this cemetery. We were running around playing with an Afghan ball, throwing
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it into each other and hitting it with the stick. They call it the Togdanda. It is pretty
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much seemed like cricket, but that's a different version of it. So as we were running around
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and we were having fun and a couple of my friends, they were in front and they run.
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They thought that to run away from us and we were behind them. And as soon as they got
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faster and faster and you know, stepped on the land mines and they were blue and off.
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They lost their legs, their hands. And finally, after a few days, they were dead. So it was
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full of much difficulties. Life was really challenging. We did not have electricity most
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of the time, like power and you know, there was food shortages. There were no education
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at that time because the country was in the Civil War. When I was born, it was the Russian
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occupation over there, all the day for two years they were there. The Mujahideens were
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fighting them every single minute. There were bullets, rounds, mortar shells, RPGs flying
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in the air over our head. And by the past of the time, it became part of the life. At
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first, we were scared, but then later on, it kind of became part of the life and we didn't
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care anymore about nothing. I remember one time when I came out of my house, I was going
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to the playground to play with the other kids. A big part of like this much part of the rocket
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shell that came and dropped on my head. But luckily that was cold. It was not hot or warm.
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Otherwise, it would, you know, go into my head. But you know, I scratched a little bit
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in my head because I didn't have enough hair on my head and, you know, it didn't bleed,
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but it scratched it a little bit. And I remember one other evening that we were playing walnuts.
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It's a walnut game that still when the walnuts grow on the trees, the kids go, they take it
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and then they play with each other to win walnuts from each other. We were playing this game.
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It was one of the afternoon that an undirected RPG came and hit at the end of the street
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like probably 15 to 18 meters in distance between us and the other kids. And it just
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smashed a bunch of kids and turned them into flesh and blood at that time. And then my
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father and the neighbors, they all came and they collected their meat and they put them
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in the white cloth and took them to the cemetery to bury them. Every day, every minute, every
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hour, every month, it was full of, you know, anxiety, frustration, lots of dangerous situations.
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Like sometimes these Mujahidin groups, they were for power struggle. They were fighting
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between each other. They were shooting rockets, RPG rockets. They were shooting pikis, grenades.
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They didn't care about the civilians. And when they were losing the battle between them,
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then they were just going to the people's house and they were taking refugee among the
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people. And then the other side, the opposition side, you know, they were throwing ammunations,
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shooting guns and, you know, rocket or Grammys, regardless of being curious about all those
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poor civilians that has nothing to do with the war or nothing to do with their parties.
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So overall, it was very, very difficult and challenging raising as a child in Afghanistan.
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I really appreciate you going into all that detail is these. And I think one of the main
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reasons is because I literally dealt with none of that growing up. And almost everybody
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listening to this is an overwhelming majority American audience. We didn't grow up with
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anything even close to that. We may, that doesn't mean we didn't grow up without hardships,
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but that's just a different level. But that was just kind of normal life for you. So I'm
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also curious growing up, what were your thoughts on the United States of America? Because,
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you know, just because you live there doesn't mean that you are or that you are not aware
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of America. Because eventually you did learn English obviously because you speak it so
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well and that, you know, bodes well as we move into talking about you becoming an interpreter
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later on in this conversation. But I guess what did you think about the U.S.? You know,
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what's the story behind you learning English?
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Honestly, at that time, there was not much news out in Afghanistan when I was a child
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about the United States because there was only one TV that started their program from
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6 p.m. to 9 p.m. and it was in the control of the government. They were mostly broadcasting
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whatever they wanted to broadcast and whatever they want the people to know. Right. And on
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the other hand, the luckily we had the magazine, we had news that were coming from the neighboring
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country like Pakistan, India, and other countries. They used those for covering the fruits.
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So I was looking at these pictures, you know, seeing pictures of the Europe, United States,
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but I didn't know it's Europe or United States. And at that time, I did not know English,
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but literally there was a say among all the families and the people inside Kabul that
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in the future, if all these civil war stops in Afghanistan and a good government come
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into existence in Afghanistan, there is a natural gas pipeline that is going to come
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from Turkmenistan to Afghanistan, from Afghanistan to Pakistan, Iran, India, and it's connecting
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the region. So anyone who does who should be able to speak English, they will find a decent
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job and a decent amount of salary working in this project. And there will be a big need
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for a lot of people. This was something that, you know, something clicked in my mind that
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every day in every elders meeting that I was doing or, you know, families, they were talking
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between themselves. So I picked it up. And I'm like, what's English? I became curious
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about the English and, you know, I slowly start looking around. There was no internet,
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no electricity, no laptop or desktop or smart phone, even we didn't have those regular
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phones. At that time they used those, you know, the dialing phones that it has the numbers,
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like one, two, three, up to nine and zero, the cable telephones. Yeah, right. But even
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that one didn't work because there was no electricity, you know, that needed electricity.
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I mean, 97% of the time there was no electricity. Only 3% of the time, you know, they had a
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very small amount of energy from the Surabi station of East of Kabul. That came a couple
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of hours and then run out. So I went to these Kabul stationaries, public stationaries,
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private stationaries and the look around the books. I found these books that they called
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it the self learning English. So when I opened it, it had the English word. Then in the bottom,
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it had the pronunciation of both on past two and four C on my own native languages. And
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then it had the translation. And then it had a little bit of explanation of the sentence
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that in which a case you can use it as a past tense, is it, you know, present tense or future
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in future how you will use it. There were some grammatical structure describing how to use it.
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So I became really interested. I got one of these books and I kept studying it with myself
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and not knowing about the United States, not knowing about the, you know, how enormous
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United States is and how, you know, it will help me and all the other people who should
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be able to speak English. We did have no idea about this, especially myself. So I was just
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thinking about the, the natural gas project and, you know, approving my English everyday
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practicing it, learning it. And, you know, as I was working in the streets on the streets
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in the neighborhood, I was having this book and reading it, all these children in the
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neighborhood, they noticed they're like, Hey, is he is already crazy? What are you talking
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about? If this is not past tense, this is not fancy. Every day we see you, you have this
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book or that book, you're just, you know, talking with yourself. Tell us what is this?
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I told them this is English language and this is international language, they call it. If
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you speak this and you travel to any part of the world, you will not have any difficulties
16:43
during your travel. Then I explained about the natural gas project and the decent salary
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and, you know, the job and everything. And, you know, all these people over by the past
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of time, they became interested. At first, they made fun of me. But then they became
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interested. They're like, Why don't you teach us? And so I teach them voluntarily and I
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grew a little bit. Then I started charting on my fees.
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There we go. Parents became so interested in that one as they saw that I taught them
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how to write ABC alphabets, you know, the capital letter, the small letters. And then
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continuously I was giving them conversational sentences to speak with each other. And their
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families became more and more interested. And their parents came to me and they're like,
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Hey, what are we doing? You're doing a good job. We are proud of you. You are the man.
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Please keep all the children from the village busy like this. It's very good and instead
17:40
of playing walnut this or that, just, you know, play. And then I borrowed some money
17:45
from my older uncle and I rented like a few French shops in one of the apartments right
17:52
across the street, the main street where I was living in 15 district of Kabul. So I
18:00
used those ones as classrooms. And I didn't have money for buying cheers, tables or other
18:08
things that's required for the classroom. So what I did, I dig the ground and I made
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the mud with water. My father had a wooden brick. What should I call it? Like there is
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a wooden box that you put the mud in it and then you flip it over. It makes bricks for
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you on the mat. And I started doing that using my students and we continuously did that like
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in one day, we made more than 200 bricks and, you know, the sun headed and a dry out and
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we brought the bricks put it and with them, we made some more mud, you know, some slight
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mat to put a layer of mud, then a layer of bricks, then a layer of mud and made like those
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long chairs kind of things so the students can sit so I can continue with the classroom
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lectures and all the classes. So this is how I started and I ended up like training about
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800 students. The course of Aziz private English Institute, they called it at that time, it
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became very famous in all Kabul in most part of the Kabul people came from all over to
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it. They paid like 50,000 Afghanis at that time for one month to study for one hour per
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day except Fridays and you know, and this became an obligation for me because the students
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were asking more questions. They were challenging me. They're like, hey teachers, how should
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I say this in English? Should I say that in English? Or sometimes they were even finding
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some words from these newspaper that was used to cover the fruits. You know, they would
19:55
pick a word and then they would bring it to me and they're like, hey, what's the meaning
19:59
of this that I would take it from them? I would tell them that, hey, it's not time for this.
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Give me your words. I will bring the meanings tomorrow. Today we are continuing with this
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lecture that you see on the whiteboard. So because I had no answers and I didn't want
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to tell them that I don't know because then their heart will break. Then they will think
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that their teachers lazy and they will not come to the course. I don't want their motivation.
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Right. Aziz, the entrepreneur. I love that. Like you got after it, whether it's teaching
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English, making bricks, you got after it. Now, obviously, a lot of things in your life and
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a lot of things for your entire family and really the entire country of Afghanistan changed
20:41
in the early 2000s. When the US military invaded Afghanistan to take out the Taliban, take out
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Al Qaeda, really to take out any terrorists that they could find, that would be even tangentially,
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you know, connected with 9/11 and the terrorist attacks here in the United States. And so I
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guess just briefly, what did you think when the United States military, this foreign force,
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you know, the greatest military force on the planet invaded your country and then with that
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Aziz? I know that a lot of your countrymen did what you did and tried to help the Americans,
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but then there were other countrymen that that was their motivation to join a terrorist organization.
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So I guess give me an idea from your perspective, like, did you ever consider joining a terrorist
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organization because it's like, Hey, they're going to, they're going to give me money. They're
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going to give me food. Like, just take me through all that. Yes, I'm coming to that one.
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And before that, I need to finish this. Actually, what happened was when I train about 800 students,
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and while doing that, the passion, the love, the respect, the desire and the wish I had for
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Afghanistan to grow as well, because we didn't have paved roads. We didn't have all the governmental
21:52
institutions were not built. And there were no opportunities for the girls. I mean, you name it,
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there were many different requirements for the human beings in Afghanistan at that time that we
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didn't have access to as I was looking in these magazines, like the European kids, the American
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kids, the other kids that they're clean, they have very beautiful clothes, you know, they're all
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they look in sharp and new and educated. And I had this desire, but I was waiting for such an
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opportunity. And I had this passion in my heart, I was born with it. I don't know that it is in my
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heart still. And even in the future, if I find ever a final opportunity, I will again do the same
22:37
thing as I did in the past for Afghanistan. And the thing is that, you know, I was really also bothered
22:45
that why we are backward, the neighbors are growing, the other countries are going every day, we are,
22:51
you know, going back and back. So what happened was that one of the evenings when I was teaching
22:59
English, the Taliban guys came behind the classroom, and they tried to take me to the present because
23:05
it was an evening prayer time. And according to their rules at that time, that all the shops needed
23:11
to be closed during the prayer times. And everyone was supposed to go to the mosque and pray. So they
23:19
caught me and they tried to hit me with this cable. I punched this Taliban guy on his nose, and his
23:23
nose start bleeding. I jumped from the second floor, run away to the neighbor's house, and not
23:29
knowing that this is also a Taliban's house. Because this lady, she called me already teacher, as he's
23:35
I said, yes, she's like, my husband is also Taliban. Don't worry. I will talk to him tonight. And he
23:41
will release you. I'm like, God, I didn't want this. However, I ended up going to United Arab
23:47
Emirates, a band on the country, free the Taliban at that time, back in the 1990s. That was my
23:57
first time that I flipped the country because of the Taliban. And I ended up working for a Christian
24:03
family in United Arab Emirates, because I had no visa, no passport, nothing. And when I noticed the
24:10
presence of the United States military in Afghanistan, for me, this was a God's miracle that I was
24:19
waiting for such an opportunity to contribute my part for the country since my childhood. This was
24:27
my desire. This was my hope. I did not even see that opportunity in my dreams at all. I didn't know
24:37
that they're not a country like United States with this much enormous and strong military would
24:42
come to Afghanistan and help in many different parts of the building the country in during freedom,
24:49
human rights, children's rights, education for all, peace, the right to vote, the right to speak
24:57
freely, the right to have your own independence, all these many different things. This was in my
25:05
heart and my mind, but I was looking for such an opportunity. And God show me his miracle at that
25:12
time by the presence of the United States military. So I called my dad and I told him, hey, that,
25:17
what should I do? What do you think? He's like, son, you did not learn all that English for no
25:23
reason. There is a reason behind that. However you want to come back, you need to come back to
25:29
Afghanistan. This is your time and you need to start putting your contribution to the country. So I
25:37
went to one of the immigration police and I told him the story, they really liked me. And they're
25:42
like, we are looking for all these many years that these people come to United Arab Emirates with
25:47
a visa and passport, how they are coming who they bring them. So I pretty much give them all the
25:53
information, routes and everything. And they were so interested in hiring me for working for them
25:59
but I told them, no, I have to go home, I need to get married because I was engaged at that time.
26:04
My fiance is waiting for me and then I will get a passport, then send me a visa, I will come with
26:10
my wife at that time. They're like, okay, they did all the paperwork, they made me out pass and
26:15
everything. They paid for all the plane tickets and send me home. So I never got back there. I went
26:21
to directly to the Kabul military training center. I met with the US Special Forces. There were
26:29
hundreds of Afghan candidate interpreters waiting behind the Kabul military gate. And you know,
26:38
we waited two, three days over there until my time came and I took the test. It was a military
26:44
test. They were basically asking you some military terminologies and words like, what's magazine,
26:51
what's around, what's again, you know, different things. So I was out of those hundred people. I was
26:59
the third guy who they called my name after they were announcing the results that who succeeded,
27:06
who failed. So I got in, I worked for one year in the Kabul military training center for,
27:16
you know, building the Afghan National Army. I was used as a linguistic interpreter,
27:23
Pashto, Dari, classroom explanations, ranges explanations, you know, gun trainings, counter
27:30
assault, this and that there was many things sniper. So whatever they were teaching, as they
27:35
were teaching, because I was interpreting the cadre of the United States was teaching. I was
27:41
interpreting and translating and I was picking up. I was learning too. As the soldiers were learning,
27:48
I was learning too, because I was observing and seeing. And finally, they saw the motivation and
27:56
something inside me. My American bosses, they promoted me, sent me to the US Embassy,
28:01
regional security office. There was another office, special project, the anti-terrorism
28:09
assistance. I became the chief interpreter for over there. There was a project in there that they
28:16
were training bodyguards for the Afghan president. Like at that time, there was president Karzai,
28:24
then other president came. But overall, the aim was to train security guards for the Afghan
28:32
presidential palace. So whoever comes, those guards will protect and they will be detailed,
28:37
like advanced team, the dog team, the sniper team, the counter assault team, the motor kit team.
28:44
I mean, there is many different kinds. They crashed some cars. They did all kinds of crazy things,
28:48
you know. So I was loving it. I was enjoying it. For me, it was not only a job. I was seeing
28:59
what that with the help of the United States, military, USAID projects, private American projects
29:08
in Afghanistan, Afghanistan was both benefiting directly, indirectly, in long term and short term.
29:18
Any project that was there, Afghanistan was benefiting from it. A lot of people found jobs
29:26
that they did not have jobs before like me. Interpreters, drivers, bodyguards, watchmen,
29:34
somebody working in the kitchen, somebody working somewhere else, somebody became a soldier,
29:39
somebody became an officer, somebody became a teacher, somebody became a teacher assistant,
29:44
business consultant, you name it. I mean, jobs were created by the presence of the United States
29:51
military in Afghanistan. And every man and woman that was working, they were working for the,
29:56
from the deep of their heart. One, because Afghanistan and the Afghan people were benefiting,
30:04
and they were slowly going, moving forward for development so they could compete in the region,
30:11
at least with their neighbors, that they were totally marginalized. They were totally moved
30:18
to the edge by those cruel neighbors for almost, you know, four and a half decades now.
30:25
So I was enjoying this job. And, you know, on one hand, I was seeing it as a God miracle. On
30:34
other hand, I was seeing my people benefiting. Everyone was happy. The United States, you know,
30:41
presence in Afghanistan helped the Afghan people that they exported power or electricity from
30:48
Uzbekistan into Afghanistan, how much money was spent on that one, that they installed these
30:56
electricity metal pillars, you know, on the mountains and the deserts into 34 provinces of Afghanistan.
31:05
You know, it became almost like we had Afghanistan that had power for only two hours or less than
31:14
two hours in the past. So during the United States military presence, they received electricity or
31:22
power for like almost, you know, 22 hours, 23 hours every night and day. And government
31:31
institutions were built. A lot of hundreds of private universities were established, opened and
31:39
ready for men and children, women, children, boys and girls to continue and learn their
31:46
educations. Computer institutes were brought, medical institutes were brought from India,
31:52
from Pakistan, from Iran, from European countries, from Swiss, from American, the Afghan, American
32:01
university was inaugurated and built, which I am one of their students also. I studied political
32:07
science and public and administration over there. I was at the very, you know, last time of my
32:15
graduation, only seven credits I needed to graduate, but then that 2016, a terrific evil attack of
32:25
Taliban happened on the American university, which, you know, I lost my teacher. I lost my
32:31
classmates at that seat that I was sitting, you know, if that day I was over there, they threw a
32:39
grenade on my place and that chair was blown up with a grenade like they threw it from downstairs.
32:45
The bad guys and the the the grenade came into the seat that I used to sit in that seat in that
32:50
classroom. However, I couldn't continue my education because of that and but still I contributed to
33:00
most extent in building the country and money different aspects of like the classroom translations
33:08
and interpretations. I also worked as a social activist and raising awareness for the people to
33:17
take the advantage of the United States presence in Afghanistan and build the country, you know,
33:25
what, what, what, you know, you think about the religion or about the, you know, what, what the
33:32
enemies are saying, these are our brothers, these are our friends, these are the best
33:37
ally in the history of Afghanistan that God has gifted to us, work with them shoulder to shoulder
33:45
and, you know, the country is benefiting, the people is benefiting, the new century, the people
33:51
will be all enlightened and, you know, we will finally get out of this, this power struggle,
34:00
the, you know, the killings, the tortures, the darkness, overall, the darkness that there is,
34:06
darkness over the decades, girls found access to colleges, universities, schools,
34:14
and the girls were able to get driving licenses, girls were able to walk without the mail support,
34:22
you know, go to the market street, do shopping, open up a business store, like, I noticed girls,
34:29
I was so happy and so enjoying it, and I was praying to, to the Lord and appreciate and get
34:35
every moment I walked in the college street. Although there were some problems and the
34:41
four provinces, like sometimes, you know, there were suicide attacks from the bad guys,
34:47
there were, corruption was also there, we cannot close eyes on that one from the Afghan government,
34:54
there were some crafted government employers, employment and, you know, employees actually,
35:03
and there were a little bit of difficulties and problems, but in general, there was much more
35:10
development, a progress, and abundance of food and resources and everything.
35:19
Well, so Aziz, I appreciate you getting into all that detail because that, that was the stuff that
35:24
we weren't getting in the news, like we weren't hearing about those stories, we weren't hearing
35:28
about anything, we might get a story from, you know, a veteran that comes back and is trying to
35:32
explain it to people, but explaining it to somebody like you, like, or having someone like you explain
35:37
it, rather, is very, very important because you give us the, you know, the view from the ground level,
35:41
and obviously we already talked to Chad, you know, we really said episode and, you know, you were
35:46
helping with Chad be his interpreter for eight different deployments whenever he was in Afghanistan,
35:51
you were helping the Americans, but at a certain point, the United States government and ran by the
35:57
Biden administration decided that their time in Afghanistan was going to be coming to a close.
36:02
You knew that that was coming. You tried to go through the SIV process to leave Afghanistan.
36:08
Obviously, Chad described that in the book, saving Aziz. You described in detail how almost
36:13
impossible that was. It became apparent pretty quickly that it wasn't the SIV process that was
36:18
going to get you out of Afghanistan, but that you were going to need to be rescued from Afghanistan.
36:23
Now, I know that we're skipping over a lot of things here because guys go by the book saving
36:27
Aziz. It is in the show notes. You can get all the detail, but I want to take you back to when you
36:31
realize, okay, we've got to get out of here. We're going to get some support from Chad and his team
36:36
and those types of things. But my understanding Aziz is that you tried to get out of Afghanistan
36:41
several times. Okay. So this is before August of 2021, before the explosion at H. Kaya, you know,
36:48
before all this other stuff, you had tried to get out several times, but each time you ran into
36:54
Taliban resistance and it was going to be just not possible for you and your family to get out.
37:00
So I guess take us through the evacuation, take us through how you got out and kind of all the
37:06
things that led up to that. And I guess I'm also curious Aziz, did you give up hope at some point
37:12
that you were ever going to get out? Did you just assume the Taliban was going to find you because
37:17
they already know who you are and that was going to be it for you? Yes. It was actually very difficult
37:24
and challenging time for me. At first, when President Biden announced the withdrawal of the troops
37:30
from Afghanistan, I did not take it serious because I was really counting on the Afghan National
37:36
Army, the Indians, the police, the border police that were equipped and trained very well by the
37:43
United States military. They were given anything they needed, lots of animations. And I knew some
37:50
officers from the military because they all called me the teacher also because I was
37:55
an interpreter, but they respected me as a teacher. So they were in contact with me. I asked them,
38:00
they're like, you know, we have enough ammunition to fight for even four or five years. We have tanks,
38:06
we have planes, we have guns, we have everything. Unfortunately, the government collapsed
38:12
politically, especially when President Lani flee the country, the Minister of Defense flee the
38:20
country. So when the top management, when there is nobody to give that power spiritually to the
38:28
soldiers, to the people who are subordinates, the subordinates can collapse. Like if there is no
38:34
top man in the family that those kids will not, you know, find their way to the future. However,
38:40
I was really counting on that one, but I was not anticipating that immediate failure or collapse
38:48
of the regime. So I knew that my heart broke that when President Biden announced, and they
38:54
withdraw all, but still, you know, on the other hand, I was praying that I was strong that we still
39:00
have the Afghan army. On the 15th of August, the government collapsed 2021 and Chad was trying to
39:12
make a team to come to Afghanistan, save me and my family. Chad, Daniel Stinson, Joe Robert,
39:20
Sean High, and some other guys overall, it's like 12 men, one woman, this is a team that they were
39:28
planning to come to save me. And they were in contact with me, they were sending texts, they were
39:36
making jokes, they exactly knew how I was suffering and what situation I was. It was a total of
39:44
hopelessness, disappointments, and I didn't see any movement because since 2016, I have been waiting
39:54
for my SIV application to be processed, yet it is impending mood. Like last time when I emailed
40:02
them, they told me that, hey, we noticed that you were in United States of America. How did you get
40:10
here? Your application is not even processed. Send me a document that it shows that you are really
40:16
in the United States. So I kind of, you know, I didn't even reply them. I'm like, I don't care
40:24
anymore. I'm here now. However, because under the contract that I served, it was a classified
40:31
contract. When you serve under the classified contract, you cannot have access to the contract
40:36
number. On the other hand, it is needed to complete the formalities for the SIV program. They need a
40:43
contract number. They need to be able to confirm with DOD and, you know, all those related branches
40:50
to find out that if I'm the right guy or the appropriate guy or somebody else is just
40:56
you know, trying to use this opportunity. However, Chad and his guys and Dan, they sent me some
41:05
GPS locations to try this gate on the 15th. Right before that, my wife had an Appendix
41:13
operation. Her wounds were all infected because of the lack of good quality medicines, because of
41:21
the lack of good doctors, you know, they did a very bad job and they were all infected and she
41:25
was really hurting and crying. So I'm not sure if you have seen that crowd around the Kabul
41:32
airport, as soon as the secretary of state announced that they will take anyone who thinks their
41:37
life is in danger from the Taliban, they will take it with them and bring them to the United
41:42
States. So everyone stormed to the airport, you know, all the guys who are legitimate, all the
41:49
guys who are not legitimate. But you know, Afghanistan is a poor country. Everybody wanted to get out
41:55
of there anyways, because everybody wants to have a good future. So it was very difficult for the
42:01
Marines that were inside the airport that was very difficult for them to control everyone, to
42:07
you know, process everyone. They had to use all these guys from the zero unit guys that were trained
42:12
by the CIA on the, they made like a second, second, second line of security around the airport. And
42:21
then the first line was surrounded by the Taliban guys. So Taliban, zero unit guys, then Marines,
42:29
then all the US CBP and US consulate guys. And then Brits are there evacuating their own
42:36
Australians, Canadians, Germans, Turks, any country that was involved with the NATO in Afghanistan. So
42:45
they were using that airport to evacuate their own interpreters and allies from Afghanistan.
42:51
It was a mess. It was a chaos. And every time they send me a GPS location, I tried to make it.
42:58
I passed the Taliban after a lot of shooting they do at me and my wife and my children. And
43:05
you know, I sneak in under under in the middle of the people. And I passed the Taliban checkpoints
43:12
with a lot of difficulties and accepting a lot of risk. I mean, the risk to the point that they
43:19
could shot me right straight in my forehead, but God was somehow protecting me and my children.
43:25
And I didn't know how he did it. So the nervousness and anxiety week, you know, low energy and red
43:35
eyes, no sleep. Again, you know, we cannot make it. As soon as we pass the Taliban, we face the zero
43:41
unit guys, they shoot at media. They're trying to spread the crowd and make the road clear for
43:47
their own guys to bring their own guys to the airport. And I'm trying to show my documents. I
43:53
cannot show them because in the back that there is Taliban, if they see the documents with me,
43:57
they will shoot me at that spot. And I'm trying to talk to these zero unit guys from far distance.
44:03
They are not listening. They're like, no, I do. I don't know you. Then once, after a few hours,
44:09
I try, I pass the zero unit guys checkpoint. I make it to the Marines checkpoint. The Marines
44:16
are the first inner circle inside the airport that's providing security for the, you know, CBP.
44:23
The US canceled it to, you know, create security so they can process the people over there.
44:29
And then they start shooting at me. They're like, no, we don't know. I'm like, hey, I'm the
44:33
United States alive. My name is Aziz. You can Google me. You can Google Chad Roboshoe. You can
44:40
Google Dan Stenson. They are my bosses. I have worked with them. And these are my documents. I
44:46
cannot show it to you because Taliban are watching. Let me in, come in. And then I will show it to
44:51
slowly. My wife, she did the appendix operation. Her wound is, you know, infected. She's crying.
44:58
She's in pain. As a courtesy, I ask you for help. Please help me. And then these young Marines,
45:05
they're like, no, no, I don't know you. They fire at me. They're like, go. They're shooting.
45:11
And I don't blame them. I mean, it was a chaos. They didn't know me, you know. However, the
45:18
wife is crying. The kids are crying with a lot of disappointments, hopelessness. I turn back.
45:25
I cannot even go back to my home because the bad guys that are coming to get me, they know my
45:31
wound, they know my address. I lost my cars, my everything. Over there, I only got a backpack and,
45:38
you know, my kids. And that's it. And then I, the other guy, my brother-in-law, he had a taxi.
45:45
I'm using his taxi. You know, we squeeze in and his little taxi, we sit. And then he takes us.
45:51
We spend the nights in the parking lots. We spend the nights behind the airport. And one ditch,
45:58
another ditch, another area. So the Taliban doesn't capture us. We cannot go to our relatives.
46:04
Because if I go to relatives, by going to my relatives, I'm not only risking myself and my
46:11
children, but I'm also risking my relatives. Because if the bad guys find out and they are
46:17
behind us and their spies are everywhere and they are looking for us. So if they find us,
46:23
they will shoot everyone over. If they will not care that who is Aziz, who is not, they will shoot
46:28
everyone. So at time came after five days of affords and trying and trying and trying,
46:40
I finally decided, because I could not tolerate, that, you know, difficulties that my family and
46:50
my, especially my wife and my kids were facing, I decided that I would send my wife and my daughters
46:57
to a relatives house somewhere far in another province. And then what I will do is I will grab
47:04
my guns and run away to the mountains and just join the N.R.F., the North Resistance
47:09
front. That was my final and last option. I had no other option. I had an AK with me. I had my
47:18
blog with me and I had still other guns and, you know, I had big cars in the house. I was planning
47:24
to just go and grab all the guns and ammunition, magazine packing behind my tundra track and just
47:30
just hit North and join the Resistance because I had that. I told a couple of nights, Chad,
47:36
that hey, brother, it's not possible. If at least tell those guys that they are there for me to rescue
47:43
me, tell them to come to the point where the Marines are. Oh, I will pass the Taliban. I will
47:53
pass the zero units. When I make it to the point where the Marines are, so from there, tell them
47:58
Marines not to shoot at me and tell them to let me in. And that's exactly, Chad did through his guys
48:08
that, you know, I was finally able to get in. Like it was the very last time, you know, my wife is
48:14
crying. She told me, Aziz, I would rather die in the car in a parking lot, but not, you know, in
48:23
a crowd and then let the people to step on me. And he saw one of the lady that right before in front
48:30
of my eyes, the Taliban shot her and she flipped over. She was on the ground and people were stepping
48:38
on it. And then there was another child that was also shot in his arm because there were rounds
48:45
flying all over from all different parties. I don't know who did it, but you know, the child
48:51
was hitting the shoulder and crying and, you know, sitting over there and people were
48:56
stepping on him and, you know, there was nobody to take care of him. It was, it was really shameful.
49:02
It was really, really heartbreaking. It was really, I don't even have words to describe that
49:08
situation. Whoever saw the, you know, the chaos that happened at that Kabul airport on 15 August,
49:16
they know exactly what I'm talking about. It's more about the feelings. It's not about the words
49:21
or sentences. Well, Aziz, what you're describing is something that, you know, the US news media
49:28
did a decent job of covering what was going on over there. But then it became very apparent
49:32
that this was going to look really, really bad for the Biden administration and staying the rest
49:36
of his tenure in office. And so a lot of these stories that you described, a lot of the ones
49:40
that Chad described, a lot of the ones that are in the book were not described by the United States
49:45
mainstream media. And there's, there's a reason for that. It's because it just looks horrific,
49:49
because they're trying to pretend as if the Taliban is this, oh, this is the new Taliban. This
49:53
is the Taliban 2.0. They're reformed. And this is all good to go. And they're not going to just,
49:58
you know, pull people out in the streets and chop their heads off and shoot them and rape
50:02
women and take 13 year old girls as sex slaves. No, this is the new Taliban. They wear suits and
50:07
ties. And like, obviously, anybody that's experienced what you experienced is, you know, knows the
50:12
absolute difference to that. So you and your family, Aziz, you get out, you know, God providentially
50:19
carries you through this, this situation. You get to America, you're here, you're, you're in the
50:26
great state of Texas. I'm just one state above you up in Oklahoma. You're working here, you know,
50:31
your family's acclimating to life in Texas. I know your wife is a little scared of all the trees
50:36
around in Texas, because yeah, I don't have a whole lot of trees in Afghanistan. So she thinks
50:39
she's in the jungle. So hopefully she's taking care of business. But when you and your immediate,
50:44
in your immediate family left Afghanistan, Aziz, you left behind as far as I understand it, your
50:49
parents, your two brothers, your sister, and there are, you know, cousins and, you know, lots of lots
50:56
of other folks as well. So I guess take me through that because it's bittersweet because you're here
51:01
with us, you're safe in America, but your family is not. And I don't know how much, you know,
51:06
interaction you're able to have with them. And I guess the other thing is, do you ever think Aziz
51:13
that you will go back to Afghanistan? And I don't mean necessarily to live there,
51:16
but do you ever think that you will be able to step foot on, you know, the soil of your home country
51:22
again? Yeah, you pointed very good points. And yeah, exactly, that's exactly all the truths. And,
51:30
you know, that's something that that has not been covered. And I'm glad you pointed all those things
51:37
out. It's, it's very heartbreaking. So we made it finally, we made it here with a lot of difficulties
51:47
after spending nine months in limbo in Abu Dhabi, then the USCIs didn't want to bring me in over
51:52
there. They're like, we don't know you. I'm showing these documents. I show them the recommendation of
51:59
the recommendation later from the general James Edward craft who was once the assistant of the
52:09
assistant commander of the resolute support in Afghanistan that he's acknowledging all my duties
52:14
and everything in a letter. And then, you know, the US counselor told me in Abu Dhabi, they're like,
52:18
yeah, everybody has those. That is nothing. So however, yeah, of course, I had to leave and
52:30
abandon my friends, my parents, my brothers, my sisters. And, you know, they had to leave Kabul
52:41
into go totally into different provinces. They got, we all got separated. And as soon as the
52:48
regime collapse happened, although I was separated from my brothers and from my sisters since 2007,
52:56
in 2007, we had a Black Friday when the Taliban seized one of our tracks. And they tried calling me
53:06
a George Bush's son and a puppet for us and, you know, and infidel and stuff. And they told me
53:12
that, you know, my house address, my car license plates, because the two drivers under their torture
53:18
and interrogation, they, you know, they give up all my information to them. So what I did in 2007,
53:26
I told my brothers and my parents that, you know, I have to move. And my father said the same thing.
53:33
If you are going to continue doing the same thing, it's going to hurt all of us. You need to get
53:38
separation from us. I said, okay, no problem. And I separated from them totally. I moved to
53:43
another district in Kabul. And I was not going to let their houses most of the time, like from 2007
53:51
up to now. And when we met, we only met through the WhatsApp calls or met in a restaurant and then
53:58
let them go. And still, there were some guys that they were spying for the Taliban and they knew my
54:07
brothers and my parents. And so they had to leave their own houses and go live in exile in different
54:16
provinces. I could not bring them to the airport with me, because they didn't work directly for the
54:22
United States. They didn't have documents to prove so I could bring them. And with that chaos
54:29
at the airport, my father said, no, he's not going with that chaos, because he's old and my mom is
54:35
also old. And, you know, he said he would rather flee into other provinces for provinces. So they
54:41
are still there. It's heartbreaking. They are all unemployment. They don't have jobs. They are starving.
54:48
And sometimes, you know, I send them a little money from here so they can buy food and survive.
54:55
And the other thing about going back to Afghanistan is, yeah, definitely, if I ever find an opportunity
55:07
to go back and help the people, I will do it proudly. And I will go and help the people.
55:17
Same as I did in the past, especially if the United States troops ever plan or the president
55:24
ever plan to send the troops over there, I would love to go there and restore my country from the
55:31
evil. It's going to be a pride for me. It's incumbent at me that I have to do it again and
55:38
save the people because have millions of people are marginalized, especially women. They are marginalized.
55:47
They are moved to the age. Their freedoms are taken from them. The right for education is taken
55:54
from them. You know, they are kept in darkness so they can marry them. They can force marry them,
56:03
like four of them at the same time. If they don't have education, if they don't have the
56:09
knowledge to fight about their rights that God has bestowed them, they will not be able to fight
56:18
for their independence, for their rights. So that's one of the Taliban's plans that, you know,
56:23
they closed all the private universities, public universities, the schools, the girls
56:28
cannot go to school. Their intention is so that they can easily hand them and force marry them,
56:34
like four of them at the same time. I hear every day the news that the Taliban commanders,
56:40
they all, most of them, like Sarajidin Haqqani, his brother Anas Akhani, the Kandahari Taliban,
56:48
all the other Taliban's that they are in the top management on the Taliban regime. They
56:56
already got like their third four wives. They married very young poor girls like nine year old,
57:03
12 year old girls, they married them. And you know, they're six and slave for the rest of their life.
57:10
It's, it's hard to even process that Aziz, because again, going back to the very beginning of this
57:19
interview, when you described what it was like growing up in Afghanistan versus what it's like
57:23
for people growing up here. And again, every people group, every country, everybody has their
57:28
problems, but we don't have that problem. And again, almost immediately, I knew this
57:36
in the middle of August of 2021 Aziz. I knew that by September, Americans would have moved on,
57:42
right? You know, Joe Biden would have, you know, pooped his pants in front of the pope or, you know,
57:46
Donald Trump would have said something in the news media or their favorite team got the player they
57:51
wanted or lost the player that they they really needed to stay healthy. And that we were just
57:55
going to move on. And that was the shocking thing for me is that I was really hoping that I was
58:00
going to be wrong. But people have just, it's too icky. It's too depraved. Well, I was, I was
58:06
debating whether or not I was going to do this because we're wrapping this interview to a close,
58:09
but but you used a word in your last answer Aziz. And it was evil. Okay.
58:14
People don't understand evil really in America. We really don't get it. I mean, you know, we just
58:20
had a quadruple murder here in the last couple of months in Idaho, where, you know, there's so
58:24
much blood at the crime scene that, you know, the forensic team couldn't even like get the get
58:28
their stuff together. They couldn't even do it. Like that's evil. We recognize that's evil.
58:32
But the reason why that's been making headlines every day for weeks is because that doesn't happen
58:37
every day here in the United States of America, right? We're so unbelievably lucky and we're so
58:42
ignorant to realize that other people aren't as lucky. So I do want to ask you, I want, I want to
58:48
know, and I want you to tell our audience, what are some of the things that you saw that you witnessed
58:53
that that your, your team's witnessed in Afghanistan, that the Taliban did that didn't make the news,
58:59
that the horrific things, because we've described a lot in this podcast, but I want to, I really
59:03
want to drive this point home. And this isn't some sort of, you know, masochistic thing that I just
59:07
want to hear it because it gets me off. No, like I, our audience needs to know exactly who the Taliban
59:13
are and what they're doing to people. Taliban are a bunch of barbaric, ignorant, uneducated people
59:23
that are raised in the Pakistani mattresses in the darkness. And the movies have been showing to them
59:33
that, you know, the rest of the world has been introduced to them as an infidel. Like anybody
59:42
who shives their beard is an infidel to the Taliban. That's what they are taught in the
59:49
Pakistani mattresses since their childhood. They are taught that all the rest of the world is
59:57
sinners. They are doing adultery. Like, for example, if I come to your house and your wife give me a
1:00:08
hug and welcome me to your house. And they think that as a, you know, very bad and sinner action,
1:00:17
they said that the mean, they should not touch the women, because that's how they are trained,
1:00:24
their mentality, their ideology. Taliban are those people that in the last two decades, they did not
1:00:33
have mercy on the children. I remember those poor girls, those little girls, eight year old girls,
1:00:41
that they were coming with their family from Kandahar to Kabul under a highway of Helmand,
1:00:48
they stopped them, brought them down from the bus. And they cut the truth of those little girls
1:00:55
with the strength that people use it for suing the shoe. They cut the truth of the journalists
1:01:03
just for broadcasting the truth and the realities about the Taliban. They slaughtered
1:01:10
thousands and hundred thousands of people in Afghanistan, Americans, Europeans, most of the
1:01:18
time Afghans, they did not even have mercy on their own people that they call that Afghans are
1:01:25
our people. They say that Afghans, most Afghans are Muslims, and they also claim to be Muslims,
1:01:32
but unfortunately, they did not even have mercy on their own Muslims. So there is no good or bad
1:01:42
Taliban, Taliban are a terrorist group. They have, you know, very terrific mentality and doesn't matter
1:01:51
how much you have mercy on them or respect them, they will do their thing. They still do that's
1:02:00
how they are trained from the childhood. They do not have enough education, even about the Islam
1:02:06
that they are claiming, even about their own Islam, they do not have educations like in Islam,
1:02:12
killing of the innocent people is totally forbidden. I have studied the Quran many times just to know
1:02:18
what's in there, but you know, they are not even obeying their own Islamic rules. They are not even
1:02:25
Muslims. They are just a bunch of barbaric terrorist evils that the world, it's actually a moral
1:02:36
obligation, a obligation for the whole world in eliminating them. Otherwise, this is a virus,
1:02:43
like a coronavirus, it's spreading, it's growing, and it will affect everyone on this planet Earth.
1:02:51
Right now, as far as I'm talking to my friends in Afghanistan, they are growing a lot of
1:02:56
bad guys like for suicidal training, like they have a battalion that with the leftovers of the
1:03:04
American guns, they are training suicidal people to in the future, they want to use them against the
1:03:11
region or, you know, the world, and every day they are growing Uzbeks that Chinese
1:03:17
keywords are coming over there, the Uzbeks radical Muslims are coming over there, the Turk
1:03:22
radical groups are going over there and covering under their big umbrella or the context of Taliban
1:03:30
in Afghanistan, and you know, Jaisham, Mohamed, Lashkar, Taiba, and there are so many other
1:03:38
terroristic groups that they are involved in many different terroristic attacks in the region,
1:03:46
like on Indian hotels, like in the borders of Uzbeks don or Tajikistan and inside Afghanistan
1:03:53
and in many parts of the world, and it's really, really dangerous. I hope that the superpowers,
1:04:01
especially the United States should take an immediate action against this evil. Otherwise,
1:04:08
it's going to affect everyone on this planet and it will be very difficult to eliminate them if
1:04:15
we let them to grow more and more. I completely agree with you. Obviously, anybody that's paying
1:04:20
attention or has paid attention to this for any length of time agrees with you because doing this,
1:04:23
putting our hands over our eyes and covering our ears, that's not going to take care of the evil.
1:04:28
We have to push back against darkness and we have to eliminate evil. That is the mandate that God
1:04:32
has given us. But Aziz, I really appreciate all the time that you've given us today. I really
1:04:35
appreciate all the detail that you got into. And again, you know, that we barely scratched the
1:04:40
surface on the stuff that is in the book saving Aziz. Obviously, you played a tremendous hand
1:04:44
in that book getting to us. But as for now, that's all for me. Is there anything else you want to
1:04:47
get off your chest? Oh, no, that's it. Thank you very much. Really nice talking to you. Have a great
1:04:53
one. Tashikur. Yeah, I appreciate that. Well, Aziz as a zoo. Did I say it right? Because I didn't
1:05:01
really say okay. Perfect. Okay, see, I'm doing my best with a little bit that I know you'll have to
1:05:07
teach me some more when we actually meet in person or in person. But Azizi, I'm messing up my own
1:05:13
outro here because I like I'm speaking a different language for like four seconds. Azizula Aziz,
1:05:18
thank you for coming on our Dawn to life of man's podcast. You're welcome. You're probably good with
1:05:22
Bali. There you go, guys. I hope you enjoyed my time with Aziz. But before we let you go,
1:05:27
we are going to do a quick resilience boost at undaunted life. Our mission is equipping men to
1:05:31
push back darkness with content that forges spiritual, mental and physical resilience. So here are the
1:05:35
links I've got for you today. I've got a link to the book saving Aziz so you guys can go and pick
1:05:39
that up. I highly suggest you do so. And then also I've got links to save our allies website
1:05:43
and the mighty Oaks Foundation website. Thank you guys for listening to this episode. Wherever you
1:05:48
listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five star review. If you want
1:05:51
to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, you shoot me an email to info@undaunted.life.
1:05:56
That's I N F O and on to not life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out
1:06:01
our website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming
1:06:04
your way. Just go to www.undaunted.life. And as always, we want to thank the band August Burns Red
1:06:09
for allowing us to use their music for our content. The music on this podcast is our song
1:06:13
"Cutting the Tides" which is off their 10th anniversary re-recording of their album Leveler.
1:06:17
The links are in the description. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back
1:06:23
darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience, keep seeking the lion of Judah.
1:06:43
[Music]