← All episodes
The Forging Table

Ask a Pastor with JOBY MARTIN | October 2024 (Ep. 657)

October 1, 2024 44m 14s Full transcript available
Ask a Pastor with JOBY MARTIN | October 2024 (Ep. 657)
0:00 / 44m 14s
In this episode of Undaunted Life, Kyle Thompson and Pastor Joby Martin tackle tough questions about faith, miracles, and the complexities of modern Christianity. They discuss the significance of biblical authority, the nature of salvation, and the challenges of navigating cultural issues as men of faith.
Transcript
783 segments
0:00 Are your ad campaigns lighting up the dashboard, but not the pipeline?
0:04 That's bullspend, and marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions.
0:09 My boss asked for results, so I opened my dashboard for the only positive-sounding metric I had.
0:15 Impression.
0:16 Cut the bullspend.
0:18 See revenue, not just reach.
0:19 Linkedin delivers the highest return on ad spend of major ad networks.
0:23 Advertise on Linkedin.
0:24 Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit.
0:27 Go to linkedin.com/campaign-turnsick-addition-supply.
0:50 This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
0:54 I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
0:56 Let's get into it.
0:57 I'm just going to be real honest with you from the beginning.
0:59 I normally have something funny to say right here from the beginning, but I don't have
1:02 anything funny to say, so the onus is now falling upon you.
1:06 You need to get everybody to laugh here in the first 30 seconds of this podcast.
1:10 So ready, set, go.
1:11 Be funny.
1:12 Is your estrogen level increasing because the best several podcasts you've been crying
1:16 a lot?
1:17 Okay.
1:18 And I think it's great.
1:19 I think it's funny, but it's great.
1:20 Very different reasons.
1:21 One was super legit.
1:22 I may have shed a tear with you about your dog.
1:26 And then the other one on the Luke Holmes kind of review of his album, album was pretty
1:31 great too.
1:32 So well done.
1:33 I told you, I told you that I wasn't going to rename my show Undaunted Life, a man cries
1:38 all the time podcast, but it's getting to be that way.
1:40 But I will tell you that stupid dog podcast that I didn't want to do, that you forced
1:45 me to do under threat of violence has had such an impact on guys because I told, I told
1:50 you to land and shout out to Landon Robertson, our amazing editor works over there with you.
1:55 I told him, dude, there's going to be a bunch of pauses in this episode and don't edit them
1:59 out.
2:00 Don't make the pauses seem shorter because like, I didn't like the fact that at certain
2:05 points, it took me five, 10 seconds to like get the lump out of my throat to get the words
2:09 out of my face.
2:11 But I didn't want to try to soften it.
2:12 It's like, man, we're here.
2:14 We're experiencing this.
2:15 And so buckle up.
2:16 But several guys even cop your neighbor was like, man, I look down on my phone and I thought
2:20 like something went wrong with my internet or someone wrong with my thing because like
2:23 the audio just completely dropped and that was literally me just trying to get it together.
2:27 I've always had mad respect for the guys and I can't do this.
2:31 The guys can talk through the cry.
2:33 You know what I mean?
2:34 I have.
2:35 I can't do it.
2:36 I like, I don't know.
2:37 I can't do it.
2:38 I have to stop to.
2:39 Bro, it made me think of, I think it was Vince Gill and I don't know if it was at the
2:43 opera, but he was singing, it was like George Jones is not his funeral, maybe he was his funeral,
2:49 or something like that.
2:50 And he was gonna, he was trying to sing Go Rest High on that mountain.
2:53 Oh, wow.
2:54 And he couldn't bro.
2:55 Go look it up on YouTube.
2:56 He could not at a certain point get the words out and this has been skilled, the voice of
3:01 an angel with the most underrated country music star of all time.
3:04 I will not hear any other arguments.
3:07 And the lady, I forget who it was.
3:08 It was, I'm not going to try to say, but if some woman whose name you would know in country
3:12 music, she was singing a harmony with Vince Gill and she literally took over singing lead
3:19 because Vince Gill just couldn't sing.
3:20 And so she kept the song going.
3:22 It was an unbelievably professional thing, but very, very moving at the same time.
3:26 So what do you think of Vince Gill?
3:27 Well, while we're on it, you're a country music guy.
3:29 He's the man.
3:30 He's the man.
3:31 I got a great dad Vince Gill story for you.
3:33 So let's go.
3:34 Gretchen and I were at the opera.
3:36 We had like kind of the backstage thing.
3:38 So we got to meet him and hang out with him.
3:40 He was telling a story about the very first time.
3:42 He ever got invited to sing at the opera.
3:45 He turned them down because he had already promised his little girl that he would play
3:49 guitar for her at her talent show at whatever elementary school.
3:54 So when they call, he was like, I'm sorry.
3:55 I'm already booked.
3:56 They were like, no problem.
3:57 We'll call your booking agent and get you rebooked.
3:59 He's like, I can't.
4:00 It's like green, brier elementary school.
4:02 And he thought his career is over, but he chose his daughter over his career.
4:08 And I think the night we were there was something like his 50th or 100th or, you know, some
4:13 like he'd been there more than any other person.
4:16 And he just told that story, like keep, keep first things first and trust God with the
4:19 rest.
4:20 And then he sang, go rest high on the mountain.
4:22 Hey, that reminds me of when you were supposed to go to UFC and you had like cage side seats
4:28 or whatever, but you had to take your, you know, your lovely daughter to, to what was
4:33 it?
4:34 A daddy daughter dance or something?
4:35 Yeah.
4:36 For sure.
4:37 100%.
4:38 I wouldn't do it any other way.
4:39 Reagan.
4:40 Compre.
4:41 You better feel loved girl.
4:42 Even though she probably shouldn't be listening to this show.
4:43 This is a man's podcast on a preteen girls podcast or teenage girl, whatever, but hey,
4:47 we need to get into our first question.
4:49 This is ask a pastor and guys, if you want your question entered into the bank of questions
4:53 that we refer to and guys were, we're kind of running low on questions from our listeners
4:56 out there.
4:57 But if you are a monthly donor, you get to put your questions into this question bank.
5:01 But as always, we're going to start with a question from me because I'm selfish.
5:04 But here we go and then this is kind of my question, but it's a lot of people's questions.
5:08 I've kind of like coalesced it down into this, but why don't we see big, obvious miracles
5:15 like the parting of the Red Sea or stuff like that.
5:18 We read in the Old Testament now that we've got four K video in our pockets and, you know,
5:22 all these types of things that we can get.
5:23 Why don't we see miracles like that?
5:25 And I'm kind of teeing you up because your inner circle there at church of 11 to just
5:30 experience something pretty miraculous.
5:34 It's not the parting of a sea or anything like that, but it's just as miraculous for the
5:38 people involved.
5:39 So hit it.
5:40 First and foremost, I would, I would question when you say we, right?
5:44 Because you're, you're mostly just talking about Americans, man, if you do any travel
5:48 across the world and talk to especially church leaders that don't have the kind of resources
5:54 that we have here, they seem to experience a lot more of the miraculous than we do here.
6:01 And it very well could be because their dependence on God's moving in miraculous way is so much
6:06 higher than ours is.
6:08 And so I am pretty skeptical by nature, but there's just some guys that I've known for
6:13 too long out in the fields in, in East Africa and in the Amazon in Brazil, places like that.
6:21 They seem to see God move him right this way in, in more regular terms than we do.
6:27 Now, the miracle that you're talking about is a dear, dear friend of mine on my staff
6:31 here.
6:32 Got a Paul Williams, his wife Elizabeth Williams just a few months ago was diagnosed with stage
6:37 four plus cancer and they were trying to figure out how many months she had to live.
6:44 We prayed and prayed and prayed and her latest diagnosis was no cancer.
6:48 I mean, cancer free and it is, I mean, it's really shocked us all in the best way possible.
6:55 And so praise God for that.
6:56 And I don't know why he doesn't do it every single time, but I, but we want to give him
6:59 glory when he does.
7:00 And he did it this time.
7:01 So praise God for that.
7:02 I remember when I heard that for the first time, I was talking to a mutual friend of ours
7:06 and he casually mentioned it and I go, wait, wait, pause, pause.
7:10 Are we talking about the same person?
7:12 And like we're in the middle of the lobby at church and I was like, you've got to be
7:15 kidding me and I text you and text some other guys, but just to kind of round back to my
7:19 question, I've heard similar things about people that are doing mission work other places.
7:23 You mentioned Africa.
7:24 That's where I've heard of it.
7:25 But like I'm talking about the miracle is the Mississippi River is temporarily, there's
7:32 a gap in it or in Africa, the Nile River, there's a gap in it and you got people running across
7:36 it and then Boko Haram runs in there and then whoosh, the Nile takes out Boko Haram and
7:41 everyone's got it on video and it's on YouTube and TikTok by the end of the day.
7:45 That's more so what I'm talking about because again, this isn't a great excuse, but a lot
7:49 of people that are on the more atheistic or adversarial agnostic side of things will
7:53 be like, great, we hear about all these healings and all these miracles and fire from heaven
7:57 and this pillar of fire and smoke leading people through a desert.
8:01 Why don't we see anything like that today?
8:04 So I think a part of it is like, for instance, if you look in the gospel of John, John never
8:09 calls miracles, miracles, he always calls them signs because they always pointed to something
8:13 greater than themselves.
8:15 So for instance, God, when he parts the Red Sea, he wasn't just like flexing his raw
8:20 power.
8:21 It was a part of the redemptive plan for God to save every tribe, tongue and nation.
8:26 All right.
8:27 Well, now we have the perfect thing, his word that points to God's redemptive plan for
8:32 all people.
8:33 So it very well could be now, I am not a cessationist.
8:36 I don't take it that far.
8:37 I believe that the spirit of God still works here among us.
8:40 I don't personally think that there is like a, like a, you know, go bad date on the Holy
8:45 Spirit.
8:46 I think he still does his work, but I don't think we need those kinds of signs because
8:52 we have his word that point us to the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
8:58 Okay.
8:59 Very good.
9:00 Well, we'll go ahead and move on from there.
9:01 I appreciate you giving us some detail on that.
9:02 Next question here.
9:03 This is from Jake Winkler, the biggest of all forging tableers.
9:06 Will we eat meat in heaven?
9:08 And if not, will we eat at all?
9:10 Man, I don't know.
9:12 So this is speculation from all, you know, because who knows?
9:15 There is a bank waiting table that is prepared there for sure.
9:20 So if I know we won't have to like kill things in heaven, but, you know, God could just make
9:27 it show up.
9:28 However, he wants to.
9:29 I think most of the descriptions are heaven are like a three year old trying to describe
9:33 Disney, man.
9:34 It's, it's at least that, you know, it's the best that the human mind could come up with.
9:40 It's going to be infinitely better.
9:42 It, we, yes, we will eat, but somehow we're not going to be killing animals.
9:47 I mean, even a three year old at Disney could identify that men, bearded men walking around
9:52 and dresses is not a good idea.
9:54 How dare you guys even go to Disney and give them your money?
9:56 But here's the thing.
9:57 We won't need it for nourishment, right?
9:59 Like in heaven, we won't, we won't need nourishment and rest the same way.
10:03 We need to hear as far as we can tell.
10:05 Yeah.
10:06 Correct.
10:07 So I think this is where the, the, the Bible writers are one, they're talking about dreams
10:14 or revelation that they have that is just trying to describe whatever the best thing
10:20 you could come up with in your mind.
10:21 It's at least that good, but it's actually going to be better because our bodies will
10:25 be glorified like Christ, although Christ did eat breakfast, post resurrection, but also
10:31 he could like wall through walls and stuff.
10:33 So explain that.
10:34 I don't know.
10:35 I tell you, what you do is you just write, write books about heaven and make up whatever
10:38 you want.
10:39 And a lot of people bond.
10:40 Well, I'm about to write a book that says Roman, the giant is in heaven and Joby Martin
10:43 is wrong.
10:44 I know it's not the nicest title.
10:45 It doesn't really roll off the tongue, but I think he's, I think he's going to be
10:48 there.
10:49 So you need to shut your mouth.
10:50 All right.
10:51 Next one here.
10:52 I hope you're right.
10:53 I hope I'm right as well because he's going to be hanging out with Samson, which was your
10:55 dog.
10:56 They're going to be running around together.
10:57 So here's the next question.
10:59 This is from Jennifer.
11:00 Jennifer.
11:01 Thank you for being a monthly donor.
11:02 I have a long one, but I thought that this one was important.
11:04 My 17 year old son, who willingly became baptized three summers ago at youth group camp is now
11:09 studying Catholicism and is going to Catholic mass.
11:12 He was raised in an evangelical Anglican church, then during COVID after the church wouldn't
11:17 reopen, we started going to a non-denominational Bible church.
11:20 My son says he is seeking the true church after seeing so many of the Protestant churches
11:25 and non-denominational churches stray from the word of God.
11:28 I feel the current Catholic church as far from what perhaps was the early church as I feel
11:33 like they worship idols and don't fully accept Jesus as being the propitiation for our sins.
11:38 My son can be quite stubborn, which can be a blessing and a curse.
11:42 So I've been trying not to argue with him.
11:44 Rather I am just asking him lots of questions and asking him to explain.
11:47 I've not been able to sleep well since he told me he's been exploring the Catholic church,
11:51 thus me sending this email at three oh nine a.m. after being up since one a.m. praying
11:55 and reading scripture.
11:56 My question for Joby is what would you say to your son if he came to you and said dad,
12:01 I want to go to the Catholic church now because it's the true church that God ordained through
12:05 Peter.
12:07 So I would highly encourage her son to seek the true gospel instead of a particular type
12:12 of church because the church that she's talking about does not preach or teach or seek the
12:18 true gospel.
12:20 So man, I am not trying to hate on Catholics.
12:22 I'm happy to partner with the Catholic to save the life of the unborn or whatever.
12:27 However, mass in and of itself does not teach that salvation is by grace alone through faith
12:33 alone in Christ alone.
12:35 They believe that grace is imparted to us, not imputed to us based solely on what Christ
12:41 has done.
12:42 And they do not believe in the authority of the word of God as sufficient.
12:47 They think that people and popes have just as much authority as Jesus or or the Bible
12:54 does.
12:55 So the question, if she could get him to say, seek what the true gospel is instead of what
13:00 the organization that's going to help you best understand it is, I think that's the direction
13:04 I would go.
13:05 Okay, let me ask a follow up to that because this is obviously very precarious thing when
13:09 you get into talking about like Catholics or Orthodox and then you kind of draw a big line.
13:13 And then there's, you know, Mormons and, you know, Jehovah's Witness and all that, but
13:17 I heard someone recently explained it to where it's like, you should be very wary of someone
13:21 that says, yes, the Bible plus this other written text or plus this other authority.
13:26 So Catholics would say the Bible, but plus the pope, plus the catechism, Eastern Orthodox,
13:31 they would have the Bible, but then they have some some writings that they depend on.
13:35 Then Mormonism, you have the Bible plus, you know, the Book of Mormon and in some other
13:39 things like that, is that I know that's kind of like more of a club than it is a scalpel,
13:43 but is that a decent way of looking at, hey, we should be wary of anything that is kind
13:47 of extra biblical?
13:48 Yeah, very much so.
13:51 I mean, the question is authority, like who's authority are you going to submit yourself
13:55 to?
13:56 Is it to Jesus through his word or is it what like some people voted on in the Catholic
14:01 church and they can change their mind?
14:03 And so this is where you get things like praying to Mary, which is not in the Bible, praying
14:10 the rosary, which is not in the Bible, confession for the forgiveness of sin, not to Jesus,
14:16 but you have to go through a person, even though the Bible very clearly says that he
14:19 is the only mediator.
14:21 Can you be saved without partaking of communion?
14:24 Well, the thief on the cross was, but not according to Catholic, in fact, Catholic doctrine
14:30 teaches that salvation by faith alone is anathema to be damned.
14:36 So they don't believe that salvation by faith is how it works.
14:42 You have to work.
14:43 Ephesians two says something opposite of that.
14:46 The reason that says that is because a council got together to talk about what Martin Luther
14:51 was saying and they came up with a doctrine opposite of what Martin Luther came up with.
14:55 Martin Luther was reading out of Galatians, Ephesians, and Romans.
14:58 He says the Bible clearly says that we're saved by faith alone.
15:02 So the current Catholic, and I'm not trying to beat up on Catholics.
15:05 There are many, many Catholics that have submitted and surrendered their life unto Christ.
15:09 And then they got some bad theology on this stuff, just like Baptist and just like every
15:13 other denomination.
15:15 However, I would not encourage somebody to go to a place that does not preach the gospel.
15:23 I would have this kid read, Chandler is the explicit gospel start there.
15:27 I think that's a good one and the book that's right over your left shoulder right there,
15:30 run over by the grace train.
15:32 That's basically that entire book is like being marinated in the gospel.
15:35 So let's move on here.
15:36 This question is actually from me, this has come up quite a bit.
15:39 I've heard it quite a bit.
15:40 I've even thought it quite a bit, but should Christians attend second weddings?
15:45 So these are people's second weddings, assuming that the person's first marriage did not end
15:51 with death, adultery, or abandonment.
15:54 This has come up for me personally where there's been some buddies of mine that are getting
15:57 married for the second time.
15:59 Now, a lot of these marriages ended for biblical reasons, right?
16:03 There was either death, adultery, or abandonment.
16:06 But there's a lot of people that have real consternation over.
16:09 Okay, you don't think, you know, Christian should attend gay weddings, but Christians
16:12 all the time will attend second weddings, they'll attend the second wedding of somebody
16:16 who was the one that was the adulterer in the first wedding that caused the divorce and
16:19 now they're marrying the mistress or, or, you know, the, the f buddy or whatever the language
16:24 they want to use.
16:25 And so that's the problem that a lot of people find themselves in is how do we love these
16:28 people and should we attend these weddings if the first marriage did not end because
16:32 of the biblical reason?
16:34 Yeah, I would probably put this in the, in the like meat sacrifice, the idol category,
16:38 like it's probably a, a matter of your conscience and you've got, well, one, if you don't know
16:45 why, I would try to assume the best and that the, the people that you're supporting hopefully
16:50 had biblical reasons or maybe they weren't a believer to be, you know, first go around.
16:56 But if you knew that it was very, very ungodly reasons why these people got divorced and
17:03 why they're getting remarried and you were convicted to not participate, I think you were
17:08 well within biblical grounds to say, you know what, I can't participate in this without
17:15 calling everybody there, you know, some kind of heritage because they're doing this.
17:20 And, and a part of the reason is because it is still, it is an actual wedding though.
17:24 The, the difference between the gay wedding is that's not a wedding.
17:26 Like God said, man and woman, not man and man.
17:29 And so, um, but the, the case you're bringing up is legitimate because when you attend,
17:35 you don't attend a wedding, you participate, you validate a wedding.
17:39 Right.
17:40 And so if you don't think that that's a wedding that should be validated, then I would encourage
17:44 you to not attend.
17:45 When I do weddings, there are multiple people that I've told, I can't do your wedding.
17:49 And bro, you want to talk about people getting mad at you.
17:51 I mean, they lose their ever loving mind.
17:54 And I'm like, I'm not saying you can't get married, dude.
17:56 It's so easy.
17:57 And you just go to the courthouse, I'll marry you right now or everybody else will do it
18:01 because they don't care.
18:02 I care.
18:03 And, but if I think that people, uh, biblically don't have the grounds to be married, then
18:08 I will tell them, I can't do this.
18:11 So I think based on that same reason, if you don't want to participate in one, then you
18:15 probably shouldn't.
18:16 Hey guys, real quick, if you're anything like me, you are constantly on the lookout for high
18:20 quality products that are actually made here in America by American hands.
18:25 The problem is that a lot of American companies have outsourced their labor overseas.
18:29 So it's an American company, but it's supporting people that don't live here.
18:33 So I've always went to partner with an American company that prioritizes America, American
18:37 workers and making all of their materials here in this country.
18:41 That's why I want to remind you that we are partnered with origin.
18:44 Origin is an apparel company based in Maine and they are focused on getting as much manufacturing
18:49 back to the United States as they can possibly do.
18:52 What do they make?
18:53 They make the best jujitsu gis on the planet.
18:55 And these are the only jujitsu gis that are made completely in America.
18:59 They also make jeans.
19:00 Yes, they're stretching and awesome.
19:02 They also make amazing hunting gear.
19:03 And I know you guys love your kuyu and your sika, but those companies use overseas labor
19:08 and they don't do that to help you guys out.
19:10 They do that to increase their profit margins.
19:13 Origin also makes boots and work boots.
19:14 And yes, that does include still toe boots.
19:16 In the fall of last year, they launched a line of everyday clothing, their versus pants
19:20 or their everyday pants.
19:21 And they are just especially phenomenal.
19:23 They also make other outdoor clothes and workout clothes and they're launching new apparel
19:27 stuff all the time.
19:28 If you haven't already, you need to check them out and support a company that supports America
19:33 and America's workers.
19:35 Try origin out today by going to www.originusa.com.
19:39 That's originusa.com.
19:42 Use the promo code undaunted to get 10% off of your order.
19:45 Again, that's originusa.com promo code undaunted to get 10% off of your order.
19:52 So with that, just to kind of a short follow up, I've heard this brought up here recently,
19:55 there were people that when they got married, they were not Christians.
19:58 And then now one of it for both of them are now Christians and they feel like, Oh crap,
20:02 the first wedding wasn't actually valid because we did we read the vows, but we didn't mean
20:08 it.
20:09 We didn't understand propitiation of sin debt.
20:10 We didn't understand any of that.
20:11 We need to go get remarried.
20:12 And so what would you say to those people like to each other, by the way, so that we
20:15 need to go get remarried and redo our vows because we actually mean it now or understand
20:19 it more now.
20:20 What would you say to those people?
20:21 I've got no problem with a renewal of vows, you know, for as long as it's godly reasons.
20:26 Gretchen and I renewed our vows at five years, but for totally different reasons.
20:30 Gretchen had this 24 hour stomach bug the day we got married and threw up all day and
20:34 was shot up with Finnegan and almost unconscious when we got married.
20:38 It was I guess the perfect example of make sure you spend all your time on the marriage
20:42 and not the wedding because of weddings like that.
20:45 We had the worst wedding you could ever have and we've got an incredible marriage.
20:49 So as a gift to her at five years, I surprised her by renewing our vows.
20:55 That was more just so that she could participate in all the fun stuff like we did our first
20:58 dance five years in and stuff like that.
21:00 So I think it would be a real good thing to be a really good idea, a great way for the
21:06 man to lead if they got married as non-believers got saved as married people.
21:12 And then the guy says, you know what, I know we used all the right words, but why don't
21:16 we actually covenant and now that we know Jesus and put him in the middle and three
21:21 cords are not easily broken.
21:23 And that's going to mean a lot more to us than the first go around.
21:26 All right.
21:28 Very good, very good.
21:29 Let's get on to the next one here.
21:30 This is from Eric Browning from the forging table.
21:32 The Bible tells us to lay up our treasures for ourselves in heaven.
21:36 We will we have rewards in heaven that will differ in measure.
21:40 And should this affect our motivation for working for them in the present?
21:45 Yes, yes, yes, yes.
21:47 So there's a lot here.
21:48 So when we talk about heaven, it's not a theological, it's not even technically correct.
21:53 In the consummation, heaven's kind of like a holding pattern or like a waiting room for
21:57 what's going to be there forever and ever.
21:59 It is the presence of God.
22:01 It is now there are angels singing to God now.
22:03 There are people there, but by the time you get to the end of Revelation, you know, you
22:08 see a new heaven and a new earth and that we occupy whatever a new heaven and a new earth
22:13 are.
22:14 And it sounds like, you know, like we may have jobs and living houses and all of this.
22:21 So my understanding, I think the best way to think about storing up your treasures in
22:26 heaven is if you look at what the elders do around the throne as they sing, Holy, Holy,
22:31 Holy, it's Lord God, Almighty, who wasn't his and his to come.
22:34 And they take their crowns and they lay them at the feet of Jesus.
22:37 I think the thing that is going to be the most valuable to you in heaven is worshiping
22:42 him.
22:43 And it's not, I don't think in the new heavens, the new earth, it's not a nonstop 24 hours
22:47 a day sing song fest, but everything we have, all the rewards, we're going to want to like
22:55 push back to Jesus to say you were worthy of it all.
22:59 It's not like a, like, it's not like the ultimate retirement plan where my man is going to be
23:03 bigger than yours.
23:05 If I'm more generous than you, I just don't think those things will matter like we think
23:08 they'll matter.
23:09 Okay.
23:10 And I've also thought this before because like if you fall asleep and you fall into a deep
23:14 sleep, right?
23:15 And you wake up eight hours later, you don't feel like you woke up eight hours later.
23:19 You kind of remember being groggy, falling asleep and now you're awake and you're conscious
23:23 again.
23:24 So I've heard some people say like, Hey, look, no one's technically in heaven yet.
23:29 We are like, if you've died, you have basically been paused like you are asleep.
23:33 You are not experiencing REM sleep or any deep type of dream, but then whenever there's
23:38 the new heavens and the new earth and those types of things and you will be basically
23:42 reawaken to regain your sentience.
23:45 Once you know, the new heavens and new earth have been established.
23:47 I'm assuming from what you're saying that that is, that's not, that's not exactly accurate
23:51 because there are, there are beings, there are entities, you know, our souls.
23:56 There are people's souls that are currently residing in heaven as it currently is constituted.
24:00 Yeah, they're not looking down on, you know, like biggie and looking down on pub daddy,
24:05 you know, there's none of that kind of stuff going on, but so what you're talking about
24:08 is theology that, um, Adventists to believe, I don't think this is correct, but they believe
24:15 that the soul rests or sleeps and, and what they're talking about is what you're talking
24:19 about.
24:20 The problem in my opinion with it is what Jesus says to the thief on the cross.
24:22 He's like, today you're going to be there with me.
24:24 So I think it means what it means.
24:27 When you play, pray things like, um, on earth as it is in heaven, I don't think that's like
24:32 a future place.
24:33 This is never going to happen.
24:34 Okay.
24:35 The, the real problem with all this is, uh, you've got this skew between what we know
24:42 as chronology and God exists in eternity.
24:45 So anytime you try to describe the crossover of those two things, it just gets wonky in
24:50 the English language.
24:51 So my best understanding of heaven and hell is heaven and hell in their current positions
25:00 or like a holding pattern for so heaven is for souls who have put their faith in Jesus,
25:07 both Old Testament and new, um, until Christ returns, consummates all things, the, your
25:15 physical body is resurrected, reunited, glorified, nobody knows exactly what that means, but
25:20 it's awesome.
25:22 And then there's new heavens and new earth that we inhabit in a different way than, then
25:28 Rome, then your dog is inhabiting heaven right now.
25:33 That's right.
25:34 Roman is currently in heaven.
25:35 He said it right there.
25:36 Folks in case you missed it, he's there hanging out with Samson.
25:38 All right.
25:39 We got a couple of more questions left.
25:40 Joby, I appreciate it all the way up to this point, but we need to get into Benjamin's
25:43 question.
25:44 Thank you, Benjamin again for being a monthly donor.
25:46 At what point or threshold does someone not have to not have an excuse for believing things
25:52 and holding positions completely contrary to sound doctrinal teaching?
25:56 An example may be someone who says they are a Christian and even attend church regularly,
26:01 but thinks infanticide is okay or believes God does not condemn sexual sin.
26:06 I know people may have errant beliefs when they are new to the faith, but I am having
26:10 a hard time regarding someone as a Christian when we hear she has been in the faith for
26:15 years and is listening to solid teaching and yet actively encourages abortion or says that
26:20 it's normal or fine to repeatedly engage in drunkenness and sexual sin.
26:25 They do not have an excuse.
26:28 I mean, they don't have an excuse.
26:29 Basically what they are saying is I believe these things are true about Jesus, but he's
26:35 not the Lord of my life.
26:36 I'm the Lord of my life.
26:37 I get to tell him what to do.
26:39 If that's what you're doing, there's there's two ways to come to the scriptures for those
26:42 of you listening and I'm holding up my Bible with the way most of people in our current
26:46 culture come to the scripture is they hold it below them and sit in authority over it,
26:52 or they do like Thomas Jefferson with like a highlighter and some scissors and just
26:57 keep what you want to keep.
26:58 The only way to come to the word is under it to submit yourself under it and say, especially
27:06 the parts I don't agree with or don't want to believe.
27:09 I'm going to submit, listen, submission isn't submission until you disagree.
27:16 Like if I'm your boss, right, Cal, if I'm your boss and you say, what do you want me
27:20 to do to any boss?
27:21 I say, you have to go to Jiu Jitsu, that's not submission.
27:24 It's just convenient.
27:25 You want to go.
27:26 You like to go.
27:27 You're like, this is awesome.
27:28 Okay.
27:29 It's the moment where I'm like, you got to whatever, you know, you got to wash my car
27:33 or do something you don't want to do.
27:35 That's when it's submission.
27:36 We're called to submit to God's word now, you could get taught wrongly and then come
27:42 along and be taught rightly.
27:44 The key is, is your posture that I am, I submitted to the word of God.
27:49 So to this person, there's no chance you could read the Bible and come away with it that
27:57 a baby in a womb is not an image bearer of God.
28:00 And abortion is the end the life of its innocent image bearer.
28:05 And when you do that, that's a sin and there's no way you could read the Bible and come
28:10 away with it with any other sexual ethic other than sex is for married people and marriage
28:17 is only between one man and one woman under one God for one lifetime, anything outside
28:22 of that you're just making stuff up.
28:25 And that is sin.
28:26 That is what, I mean, Paul warns Timothy and Titus, he's like, you've always better
28:31 watch out.
28:32 He's going to beat some people at your church and they're going to rise up and they just
28:36 want to tickle their ears because it feels good.
28:38 You see, there's what is and there's what ought to be.
28:40 And what we're supposed to do is conform to what is in our life to the what ought to be
28:45 of the word.
28:46 But it's hard.
28:47 So what most people do is they just try to change the Bible and change the what ought
28:50 to be to the what it is to match up.
28:52 Now if you do that, you can do that.
28:55 You're not a Christian.
28:56 Like you're not a follower of Jesus, you're not a, he's not your shepherd and you do what
29:01 he says.
29:02 You are the Lord of your own life.
29:05 Now you will die and go to hell and live a Christless eternity.
29:08 He's going to give you everything you want.
29:09 Oh, you want it your way?
29:10 Cool.
29:11 You can have it your way, but you don't get to nitpick.
29:13 You don't get to say, well, I'll take some of this salvation stuff because that's awesome
29:16 and loving grace, but I'm not going to obey his truth.
29:19 I mean, like what take woman caught in the active adultery.
29:23 No one condemns you.
29:24 Sweet.
29:25 Leave your life of sin.
29:27 You cannot divorce those two when I think that's, that's one of the reasons why standpoint
29:31 epistemology is so sinful and nefarious because it's like, this is where someone's saying,
29:35 I literally saw a video the other day of someone that's, I am a lesbian, Christian and blah,
29:39 blah and all that.
29:40 And this person was literally lovingly pushing back, trying to show scripture.
29:43 She's like, Oh, no, no, no, you can't use the Bible.
29:45 You can't use the Bible.
29:46 And the person's like, why exactly can't I use the Bible?
29:47 They're like, because if it doesn't have to do with my lived experience with my relationship
29:52 with Jesus Christ, then it's not, it does not have an authority over me.
29:55 And that that's the problem with, Oh, I am a certain way or I have a certain perclivity
29:59 or I have a certain level of melanin in my skin.
30:01 So I get to have an opinion that's higher than yours or the Bibles.
30:04 That's, that's really problematic.
30:06 They're it honestly, there's no such thing as a progressive Christian.
30:09 That's a lost person.
30:11 There's Christianity and then there's lost people that have not surrendered to Jesus.
30:17 So I mean, that is it.
30:18 So I mean, people can dress up and call themselves whatever they want to call themselves.
30:22 You know, I mean, men dressed like women and women dressed like men and lost people like
30:27 identified as Christians, that doesn't mean they actually are.
30:30 They're lunatic.
30:31 They're like, they are declaring that they are their own boss by definition, Jesus is
30:38 not their Lord.
30:39 These are the people that will be in line one day for heaven.
30:43 Now it's also a bunch of like good church going folk too, but there's a, these are the people
30:48 that are going to be surprised and they're going to say, but did we not do all these
30:52 good things?
30:53 Like we fed poor people and, you know, we marched for what we thought was justice.
30:58 And he's like, I never knew you cause to know Jesus is to submit and surrender to Jesus,
31:04 because his ways are better, especially, especially when you don't love it.
31:12 That's absolutely the case.
31:13 Joby, I'm looking at the clock.
31:14 We got time for one more or you got our stop.
31:16 All right.
31:17 One more.
31:18 Very good.
31:19 Let's go.
31:20 Last question today.
31:21 I totally stole this from a video I saw online.
31:22 Not to grab the name of it.
31:24 It's these two guys, they're, they're young guys.
31:25 I think they're like a singing group or something like that.
31:28 Anyway, they go back and forth all the time on TikTok.
31:29 It's hilarious.
31:30 I'm totally stealing this from them.
31:31 Okay.
31:32 So let's say, Joby, that you are trapped in a room with 999 other people.
31:37 Okay.
31:38 Let's just call their Americans.
31:39 So there's a thousand people in this room and you're one of them.
31:42 Okay.
31:43 And so the only way that you are able to get out of this room is that you have to be better
31:50 than all the other 999 people in the room at something and it can literally be anything.
31:58 It's not just necessarily a talent.
32:00 Maybe it's a, it's an inner skill or something like that.
32:03 But your only shot is you have to put forth, here's what I'm better at than anyone else
32:08 in the room.
32:09 And here's the thing, you have no idea who else is in the room.
32:11 You have no clue.
32:12 You don't have their roster.
32:13 You don't have their baseball card.
32:14 You have no clue who's in the room, but you get two shots at it, Joby.
32:19 Here are my two things.
32:20 Here's my two salvos that I am better, I'm betting that I'm better than everybody else
32:25 in the room at these two things or just, you have to say one thing, but you get two shots
32:29 at it.
32:30 Got it.
32:31 So what are going to be the first two guesses you make that will potentially get you your
32:34 freedom from this room?
32:36 And this is just like a random sampling of Americans.
32:39 This is a random 999 people in America and you and you've, you and you know nothing about
32:45 them.
32:46 You can't even see them.
32:47 You're just stuck in this room with them.
32:48 You don't know anything about them.
32:51 Um, this is funny.
32:56 Preaching and humility.
32:57 No, I'm just kidding.
32:59 I'm literally the most humble person.
33:02 I know.
33:03 Yeah.
33:04 Yeah.
33:05 That's it.
33:06 That's what when everybody asked me when my best sermon is always tell them I got one
33:08 on humility.
33:09 It's the greatest thing I've ever got.
33:11 That's a good one.
33:13 Man preaching.
33:14 I don't know.
33:15 I want to say fighting, but do so hard to tell these days.
33:18 So, but preaching is one of them.
33:20 Is that what you say?
33:21 Yeah.
33:22 Yeah.
33:23 Yeah.
33:24 I would think I would know like if I looked over and you know, I saw whoever Tony Evans
33:27 or somebody I'd be like, okay, I'd have to come out and say, godly, I don't know.
33:31 Um, the best G's, Louise, I wish I was 33 years old, I'd say bench press, but yeah, yeah.
33:42 Yeah, I still might go fighting.
33:43 I think out of all the Americans, if I only got a thousand mods are in pretty good.
33:48 I'm a laugh when Brock Lesnar is one of those, uh, nine hundred nine people and just like
33:53 that.
33:54 If it's, if it's Brock, I'd go preaching and if it's, you know, whoever Chandler and then
33:59 I'd go with God, fighting.
34:00 Okay.
34:01 So that's, so that's good because like, I immediately thought about this.
34:04 I'm like, you could say preparing a sermon and delivering a sermon because boom, those
34:08 are two separate things because you know, there are people that are really good writers,
34:12 but the moment they have a microphone on their face, they just, they, they turn into like
34:15 a nervous 12 year old girl. And then there's other people that are great at delivering
34:19 stuff, but they can't write for crap. Right. And so those are two separate skill sets that
34:23 do come together in your case. They come together in certain people's cases where they're a
34:27 good writer, they can also deliver and they can do them both at the same time. That, that's
34:31 a rare skill set.
34:32 What did you pick?
34:34 Oh, uh, I guess if it would be me, I would say, um, I would combine comparing and delivering
34:45 a podcast and comparing and delivering a talk. Like, so all through my undergrad and all
34:51 through any of these other types of things, it's like, if part of my grade, if a huge chunk
34:55 of my grade is a presentation or something like that, I'm getting an A in this class no
34:59 matter what, because that's just the preparation for it and making sure that I've got everything
35:04 dialed in and that I'm going to make all my points and it's going to crescendo at the
35:07 very end. That's just something that I did for so long. And, you know, I had one presentation
35:13 in college where I didn't get, you know, really, really high marks. And I still remember that
35:16 presentation and why we didn't get high marks, right? And I'd like to blame it on my teammates,
35:21 but it was, it was more my fault. So I would, I would say probably that I would assume that,
35:25 you know, considering how successful the podcast has been and I mean, we're, we're basically
35:28 the top podcast for Christian men in existence right now. And so hopefully, uh, there's not
35:33 somebody else inside of that 999. That's like Joe Rogan or Lex Frieda under Tucker Carlson
35:38 or something like that. Cause I think I'd have a pretty good shot at that point.
35:41 Yeah. One of the things that I'm oppressed, I mean, I've told you this privately is the
35:45 way that you conduct a conversation. Um, the, I mean, most of your guests are kind of the,
35:53 you know, it's like Christian authors, right? So, you know, there's kind of like a, that's
35:56 it. That's kind of down the fairway. But when, when you were talking to that political guy
36:01 last month, you know, the guy's on Fox News that all had to do, that was really impressive.
36:06 I was real, cause I would have felt like, cause I feel like I could do this in the Christian
36:10 space. Pretty easy, you know, ask guys questions and have conversations about Jesus and stuff,
36:14 uh, and kind of weave in, you know, whatever's going on in the world. But dude, if I had
36:18 to talk about like political event, I was, I was really impressed, really impressed.
36:24 So I would agree. I think you flowing on a podcast would be way up there. Well, by the
36:29 way, I'm going to brag on you too. Whenever at the end, I'm going to go last and brag
36:33 on you. You're ready. Okay. I'll say one thing. I'll say one thing. So you hold on to that
36:36 brag, let it build up. I will say with that Victor Davis Hanson interview, just for guys
36:40 listening to this peak behind the curtain for whatever reason, like he has books out right
36:45 now that I think are very interesting. One's on Trump and one's on kind of like the fall
36:48 of civilizations during warfare and things like that. And so I was like, I was tempted
36:52 to do what I normally do, which is read every single page of the book, take notes, come
36:57 up with the most interesting questions that I can possibly come up with. And then maybe
37:00 at the end, ask a couple of random questions about, uh, you know, modern current events.
37:05 But for that, when I was like, no, Victor Davis Hanson knows so much about so many different
37:10 things and the work that he's done at the Hoover Institute is really, really interesting. So
37:14 I'm like, I'm just going to jot down my top issues that I see in the world today. And I'm
37:20 going to try to tee him up in a way to where I'm not leading him towards a conclusion.
37:24 But I'm allowing him to make a full-throated conservative argument because he's done that
37:28 for approximately 40 years longer than I have. So I think I mentioned some of that in the
37:32 intro for Victor Davis Hanson. But for that one, I wanted to basically tee him up and then
37:36 get the heck out of the way. Yeah. But your, your questions were graduate level. They weren't
37:40 kindergarten. They weren't, it was, you were really well informed. I'm just telling you,
37:45 I was, it was, I don't know if you did, you're just that smart or, or if you just really did
37:50 your homework on that one, I'm just telling you, it came across really, really good.
37:53 As a friend who when it first came on, I was like, I hope this goes good because this is
37:57 a little bit outside of your regular, you know, it's one thing of you, again, like you're interviewing
38:02 mad or voting or me or whatever, you know, just preachers writing books. That's one thing. So,
38:06 all right, ready for your compliment? Here we go. Sometimes, sometimes I don't think you
38:11 realize what a big deal this podcast is. And sometimes, sometimes I don't either, man. So there's a,
38:16 there's a girl at our church, one of the most delightful human beings I've ever met in
38:20 my life. Her name's Chloe. She's a single mom and she has a little boy and man, the dad just made
38:29 all the wrong decisions and is not in their life anymore. And if I said more about him,
38:33 it would not be bathed in grace. Okay, it's not good. And I love this girl. She's great, so great.
38:39 And anyway, I bumped into her at her work the other day and she was talking about me on the
38:43 podcast. And I was like, you know, I don't think she's like, Oh, yeah, for sure. Oh, I think I had
38:47 an undaunted hat on. Well, man, she listens, she doesn't listen to most of the regular ones with
38:53 her little boy. He's little, little like six or seven or five. I don't know how he is, but you know,
38:57 he's five or six, but all of the forging tables and all the ask capacitors. She, he doesn't have
39:04 a dad in his life. And so this is the only thing. But one of the things that she's doing as a godly
39:11 mom is exposing her to the forging table, four men study in the Bible together and they listen
39:18 to it in the car. And it is a way you are helping push back darkness in her. She's gonna kill me
39:24 when she hears this and hears me call her name. But I'm just telling you, bro. I mean,
39:29 I get choked up thinking about it because sometimes we don't think about the impact of the ministry
39:32 we have. We're just trying to say yes to the Lord, but bro, you and your faithfulness to this
39:38 is having an impact on this mom and her trying to raise a son into a man that's going to be a
39:43 warrior that's going to push back darkness one day. And so way to go, way to go. This is a tool
39:50 for single moms to share with their boys as they raise them up. Yeah, it's hard exactly to know
39:57 how to even respond to that because I think you're right. It's only when people come up to us and
40:03 tell us right to our faces or send us a direct email about how something has landed with them or
40:08 impacted them to where we can see it. But kind of what you do and what I do can be lonely because
40:14 you're just thinking about that next piece of content or that next sermon that you're going to
40:18 deliver and all those types of things. And yes, there are other things that we do. And sometimes
40:22 we miss the force for the trees. And it's easy to kind of forget why we're doing this. And then
40:26 we just focus on the doing it part. And so anyway, I'll talk to you offline about her. I'd love to
40:32 to get connected to see what I can do for him because for the young man, because again, to a degree,
40:38 and you and I've talked about this offline, I almost look at undaunted life as a time capsule.
40:43 So some people go back and they're going through grandpa's old, you know, stuff in the garage and
40:47 they find grandpa's journal or, you know, grandma's diary or, you know, grandpa's old Bible that's
40:53 got his notes in there and stuff like that. And it's like a time capsule of what people were thinking
40:57 and going through at the time. And like my boys who are four and two right now, like someday,
41:04 they're going to be able to start listening to the show or like if I cease to exist, right?
41:08 That's that Luke Combs song that's on his father's and son's things like, if I ain't around in case
41:13 I ain't around, like, here's a whole bunch of stuff, right? And it's not just guns and that'll be good.
41:18 And it's not just old baseball cards. And that's fine. And it's inheriting some books and some other
41:23 cool stuff. You're inheriting what your daddy thought about you and your mom and about stuff
41:29 going on in culture and the type of man you should be just in case I ain't around to tell you. And so
41:34 anyway, that I'm glad you told me that because that's that's a great thing. And it's also a testament
41:38 to those men that I study with, because all of those guys, right? So our core guys of Ryan and Zack
41:43 and Eric and Matt, but then also we've had Dagan and Caleb and another Zack and we've had, you know,
41:49 Russell and we've had we've had all these people, Robert, just kind of hop in at different times.
41:53 They all come prepared and they don't come prepared to perform. They come prepared to crack open the
41:59 Bible and dig in with other men. They come in to learn but also to teach a little bit. And it's
42:04 it's just that environment that it's just kind of grown over time. And we're just we're just glad
42:07 it's landing with people, man. Yeah, man. Good job. I know you hear from men a lot. I just don't I bet
42:13 I don't you probably don't hear from single moms and their boys of the impact this podcast is
42:20 having. So I just wanted to be the bearer of good news. Very good. Well, Joey, that's a great place
42:25 to leave a man. We'll see you next month. Thank you for listening to this podcast. Wherever you're
42:30 listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five star review. If you want
42:34 to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, shoot me an email to info@undonton.life. That's
42:39 i-n-f-o@undonton.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website
42:44 for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way.
42:47 Just go to www.undonton.life. And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use
42:53 their music for our content. The music on this podcast is their song Perpetua, which is off their
42:57 self-titled debut album on Face Down Records. The links are in the description. I'm your host,
43:02 Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
43:09 Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
43:27 [Music]
Key quotes
2
Joby Martin
If you don't think that that's a wedding that should be validated, then I would encourage you to not attend.
Kyle Thompson
I almost look at Undaunted Life as a time capsule.
Free Resource
31-Day Resilience Reset
If this episode hit, the next 31 days will be the reset. Free PDF, instant download.
START FREE →
Brotherhood
Apply to Dominion
Six pillars. Application only. The men's program Kyle built around the show.
APPLY NOW →
Dig Deeper
Ask the Archive
"Which episodes cover this topic?" Get answers grounded in all 940+ episodes.
START A CHAT →