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>> [MUSIC]
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This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
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I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
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Let's get into it.
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All right, guys, I've got some breaking news for you.
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We've got a lot of different ways that we bring content to you.
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So you've gotten used to the fact that we do interviews with some amazing guests.
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You've gotten used to the fact that I do solo episodes where I'll cover
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something happening in faith culture and politics.
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And then I'll also hit some quick hitters, some different news stories.
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But then we've got the forging table, which a lot of you guys have grown to love this year.
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That's where me and three other laymen sit around a table and
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we go through books of the Bible one chapter at a time.
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And then we also have a monthly, you know, when I'm not having vocal cord surgery.
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But we have a monthly meeting set with Mark Wayne Mullen where we talk about
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what's going on in the world of politics and, you know, get it from his perspective
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as a United States Senator representing the state of Oklahoma.
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But earlier this year I had an idea and I was like, wait a minute.
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I would like to ask questions that pretty much not only a pastor could answer,
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but that I would like to have a pastor answer.
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And then I would constantly get these questions where people would ask me things
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and I'm like, man, that's actually a better question for a pastor.
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It's really just a better question for them with their experience and
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what they do and what they've seen and how they've ministered and
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kind of what those things look like.
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And then obviously it's no surprise to anyone that's listening or
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has listened to this show for any length of time that I have a really good
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relationship with Jobe Martin, who is the lead pastor of Church of 11, 22,
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down in Jacksonville, Florida.
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And so one day I was just like, let's just do it with Jobe.
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Let's see if he would want to do it.
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So I pitched him on the idea and I talk about it a little bit on this show
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today about kind of where the idea went from there.
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But basically that's what this is going to be.
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So once a month, pastor Jobe Martin is going to come on this show for
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a segment we're going to call ask a pastor with Jobe Martin.
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And these are going to be 25 to 30 minutes, you know, long in terms of the
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actual content itself.
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But here's the thing.
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I've got my questions that I want to ask.
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There's the guys from the forging table, my inner circle here.
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They have questions as well, but we need questions from you guys.
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But I will tell you, the only people who will have,
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who will have their questions put into our, you know, question bank that we
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will pull from every month are monthly donors to undaunted life.
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Okay.
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So a lot of you guys have heard me talk about this, but we're basically a
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donation based ministry.
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We do get some money from advertisements, but it is not the majority of what
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keeps the lights on here.
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It is monthly donors.
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It is you guys guys that are giving 10 bucks a month, 25 bucks a month,
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100 bucks a month, 500 bucks a month, whatever it is that these guys are doing.
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Those are the guys that care about this content.
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They care about the way we presented and they want to help me equipment around
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the world to be able to push back darkness.
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So if you are a monthly donor, I've already reached out to you guys and gave
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you this opportunity.
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You've already sent me some amazing questions.
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You'll hear some of them today on this particular interview with Joby, but
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in the future, if you have questions that you would like me to ask on this
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segment, again, you have to be a monthly donor and then you can just shoot me an
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email info at undaunted.life again, that's info at undaunted.life.
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Obviously put in there.
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Hey, this is for ask a pastor with Joby Martin or please ask Joby this or you can
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leave me a message or a DM or a comment on social media or something like that.
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But that is how you are going to potentially get your question answered in
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this particular podcast.
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And so I'm not going to do this intro every time.
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We're just going to flow right into it.
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But in terms of today, I'm actually just figuring this out on the fly.
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I don't know if I should like tell you all the questions beforehand.
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So you can be like, I don't know if this is interesting or not.
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You know what I'm going to do?
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I'm literally like figuring this out as I'm talking.
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I'll put vaguely what the questions are in the show notes.
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And so you can kind of get it figured out from there.
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But typically there's not going to be an introduction.
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It's just going to be the intro music and then I'm going to go right into my time with
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Joby.
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So that is the new thing.
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Ask a pastor with Joby Martin.
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This is a very, very first one.
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This is our maiden voyage.
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So if you don't like it, hopefully it gets better and if you love it, it will definitely
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get better.
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So guys, without further ado, let's get into it.
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Joby Martin, welcome to the first ever edition of ask a pastor with Joby Martin.
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Do you feel special because you look special?
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Well, I don't know, man.
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Sure.
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I feel special.
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Thanks.
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It's an honor to be here.
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Well, hey, I'm glad that you wore the official uniform of Undaunted Life of Man's Podcast, which
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is a black V next shirt, but you're also rocking the hat that we raised money for my cousin
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and his family.
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So we appreciate that, but we're going to dig right in today because as I talked about
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in the intro, these are going to be quick.
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Some of these questions we might, you know, dig into a little bit more, but we'll kind
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of go from there.
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So as our soft place to land here, Joby, do you remember after all three of our other
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interviews, the subject matter that you gave me crap for not asking you about?
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Do you remember?
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I don't.
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What was it?
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Hunting Jiu Jitsu.
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Jiu Jitsu.
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Every single time we wrap the interview, we have a great time and you go, Hey man, when
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are we going to talk about hunting or Jiu Jitsu?
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So we're going to talk about Jiu Jitsu right now.
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So you are a purple belt, just like me, but I wanted to ask you about, you know, this
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new trend with a lot of pastors kind of getting into Jiu Jitsu because to get your purple belt,
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that takes a long time, but you see a lot of pastors that are on, you know, Instagram
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and all that and they're, they're entering into Jiu Jitsu tournaments and doing different
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things.
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I don't know, you know, some of those guys, why do you feel like pastors are getting into
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Jiu Jitsu and why don't you train as much as you should?
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We'll go second first, I don't train as much as I should because I have two kids and currently
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most of my afternoons, I'm at ball practices and all that kind of stuff.
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And so, and then pastor in church does, I know most people think I work half a day a week,
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but it actually takes quite a bit of my time to lead this thing.
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And then the number of pastors getting into Jiu Jitsu, I think is an incredible thing.
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You know, one of the things like when, when you see pastors fall, big famous pastors fall
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now, 10 years ago, it might as well have been like Elvis or Chewbacca, I didn't know those
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guys, I just knew of them at this point, most of those guys, I've, I've, they're numbers
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probably in my phone.
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You know what I mean?
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We've shared a stage at some conference or something.
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And one of the problems that I see in the life of a lot of pastors is they don't have
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a healthy life giving hobby to pour themselves into.
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And if you're a pastor, whether you're a church planner or you're a pastor of a growing church,
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there's this little zing that we're all looking for.
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And of course, you can only find it through the gospel of Jesus Christ.
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But if your hobby is church, I think that's a very dangerous thing.
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And I've, I've encouraged guys for a long time to find some kind of healthy life giving
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hobby because what happens a lot of times when do's don't have that is, is they have
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a very non-healthy habit or, or hobby where there is drinking too much or gambling or
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talking to somebody, certainly not their wife or something like that.
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So whether it's golf or fishing or hunting or jujitsu would be a great one to pour yourself
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into.
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So good on all those guys that take it to the next level and actually compete because
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there's a big difference too to show up and train with your buddies and to walk out on
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a mat against another grown man that you've never met before and fight until it's over.
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Yeah.
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It's a different, different level.
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But just to make sure I heard you correctly, you did say that golf was sinful.
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You said that people shouldn't play golf because it's the worst.
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You said that?
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No, you just shouldn't worship it, but, and I rarely meet the people that play that don't
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worship it.
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Although I play a little bit.
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It's all right.
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That's kind of the problem.
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I'm, I'm going on about 15 years without going out to a golf course on purpose.
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So I'm going to try to keep that up and keep the hunting and jujitsu going.
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So we're going to roll into our next question.
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So I try to, I'll try to remember to delineate which questions are mine and which questions
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come from our donors, but this is actually a question from Eric from the forging table.
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So he's forging table famous.
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This is his question.
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What the heck am I going to do for eternity in heaven?
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And why does the thought of eternity almost scare me?
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Because you're thinking about you and when you get to eternity, you won't be.
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So I know, I don't know how to explain.
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I don't think the English language can contain what it's going to be like when we are all
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day, every day, living into the idea that God had when he came up with us being able
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to have a relationship and worship him.
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And but by the way, I mean, theologically speaking, you're not going to be in heaven
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forever.
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There's going to be a new heaven and a new earth.
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And so the current heaven is like a waiting place until the consummation and redemption
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of all things.
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So it seems to look like you will have activities and work and things like that in the new heaven
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and new earth.
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So it's not it's definitely not just sitting on clouds and singing songs and that kind
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of thing.
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But the what you are doing will be secondary to who you will be with.
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And the only reason you're thinking that way right now is because you have no idea what
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it would be like to be in the the unadulterated presence of your maker in the king.
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So the one thing that I thought about, I don't know that there is an answer to this because
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I've thought about, you know, when people describe heaven as this one long worship service,
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I'm like, Oh, God, shoot me in the face.
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Like I can't listen to that music all day long forever.
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But what is it your prime version of your body and heaven?
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Because like I think about when someone's a hundred years old and they die or a newborn
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baby that dies, it's like, do they either sink back to their 25 year old self or, you
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know, ascend up to their 25 year old self, whenever they had the most visible abs of
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their life?
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Like what, what type of body and being will we have glorified but recognizable?
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So there's no way to know, but it's glorified.
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Our bodies will be glorified in the twinkly given eye.
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That means no pain.
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That means no problems.
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That means better than whatever best version of your earthly body ever was.
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And yet somehow recognizable because there's every tribe tongue nation and how would you
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even be able to differentiate between every, if no, if they weren't somehow recognizable?
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The best way, it's better than whatever you can think of.
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I mean, think about this.
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You got two little boys, right?
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Imagine if you were trying to describe your oldest son, how old is he?
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Three.
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All right.
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Imagine if you tried to just tell your son at three years old, there's going to come
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a day and you're not even going to want to live with mom and dad anymore.
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There's some little girl out there right now, and she's one year old, one year old.
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And there's going to come a day and you were going to leave your mom and me and you're
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going to only want to live with her.
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And as a three year old, he would think there's no way that sounds miserable.
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That sounds terrible.
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And yet there's going to come a day, she's like 25, 26 years old.
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And he's going to be like, forget y'all, I want to be with that girl forever in marriage.
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And so in a similar way, all the things that we think we want to hold on to right now, it's
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because we're like three year old little children and we can't even understand the greatness
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and the glory that the Lord would have for us in his presence.
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And so whatever worship is going to be, I promise you're going to be so into it that
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you can't even fathom that you get to be a part of it.
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So you're guaranteeing that the music's going to be awesome, that that's a guarantee from
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you.
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It's going to, it's going to be actually awesome.
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Like the word really means like you're going to be so overwhelmed with all and it's not
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going to be about a style.
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It's going to be because the presence of the King of Kings on the throne is going to be
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right there.
11:57
Hey, guys, real quick, I've talked about this on the show before, but I've been experimenting
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with the idea of getting on the carnivore diet.
12:03
And so I've got a good buddy, Chad Robocho, who's been on the podcast that he's been on
12:07
the carnivore diet for a while, he's seen a lot of great success.
12:10
But the big thing that I've been worrying about is like, where do I get high quality
12:13
beef?
12:14
Like where exactly can I get beef where I can trust that's coming from reputable source
12:17
that it doesn't have a bunch of junk that's been in it.
12:20
And I've been looking for a cattle operation partner to really partner up with.
12:24
And that's why I want to introduce you to the new official beef delivery partner of Undaunted
12:30
Life.
12:31
And that's my friends at Primal Beef.
12:33
So Primal Beef is a brand new cattle operation owned and operated by Sean Glass.
12:37
So he is a retired Navy SEAL that served with Jocko Willing and Jocko is also a partner
12:42
in Primal Beef.
12:43
So what makes Primal Beef different from the other fly by night beef delivery companies?
12:48
It's a combination of the following.
12:49
So it's all American black Angus cattle.
12:52
The beef comes from one farm and that's in Virginia, Shenandoah Valley.
12:57
Also the beef is all natural.
12:58
There are no hormones added ever, no antibiotics ever, no MRNA ever.
13:03
And here's a cool thing.
13:05
After slaughter, the beef is dry aged and then it's hand cut by artisan butchers and
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then flash frozen to ensure that it maintains the tenderness and marbling and flavor that
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you'll want by the time it gets to you.
13:15
And here's another cool thing.
13:17
For every box sold, guys, Primal Beef donates meat directly to a member of America's Special
13:22
Operations Forces through the C4 Foundation.
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So you can take pride in knowing that your purchase will help literally put food on the
13:30
table for one of America's finest warriors.
13:32
So are you salivating yet?
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Because if not, you should be guys.
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Try Primal Beef out today by going to www.primalbeef.com that will be in the show notes.
13:43
That's primalbeef.com.
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Use the promo code Kyle.
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That's my first name, KYLE Kyle for 10% off of your order.
13:50
Again, that is primalbeef.com.
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Use the code Kyle, KYLE to get 10% off of your order.
13:57
Okay, very good.
13:58
Well, hey, we're going to get into our first question that comes from a donor, just a reminder
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as I talked about in the introduction.
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If you are a monthly donor to undaunted life, you get to enter the vaunted mailbag for this
14:09
exact moment where we're going to be talking to Pastor Joby and asking him all these great
14:12
questions.
14:13
So here's a question from Chris.
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I've been listening to Church of 1122 Sermons and podcasts for a few years now.
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You've had a lot of guests.
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I'm just asking you this now.
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You've had a lot of guest pastors come through.
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Do you have a favorite pastor?
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You really enjoy guest preaching or maybe a favorite moment of a guest pastor?
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I really like Cameron Triggs Sermons, but the Christmas sermon of his last year got me.
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So that's the question from Chris.
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I can't remember what year it was, but a guy named Ray Cortese, who was a Presbyterian
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guy out of South Florida.
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He was here at saturated, like maybe 2015, 16 somewhere in there.
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And he preached a sermon on the power of the gospel.
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It is my singular favorite sermon that's ever been preached, including, especially all the
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ones that I've done.
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Is that the one where he talked about how his staff didn't get, like didn't get him anything?
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Like what?
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But he saw that another pastor.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I just listened to that one again here about a month ago.
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So good.
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No crux of the sermon, not to ruin it for everybody, but he says most of us only believe
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half of the gospel.
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Like if you were, if you asked that question, if you're saying before Jesus and he says,
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why would I let you in my heaven?
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And you begin to answer with, well, cause I believe you died on the cross with my sins.
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Well, that's half true.
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It is true.
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It's only half of it.
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The other half of the gospel is, and you have been imputed with the righteousness of Christ.
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And he talks about what it lit, what it looks like to live out the power of the gospel by
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understanding God's imputed righteousness to you.
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And he also is super confessional.
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Um, I mean, his words, not mom, but he was like, he was, he was a super right wing, shown
15:56
Hannity loving moral majority preaching, I'm better than you kind of guy.
16:01
And not only was he miserable, but also his whole congregation was miserable because they
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weren't living in the power of the good news of the gospel.
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And it's just, I don't know, that one wrecked me.
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Okay.
16:14
So how is that so to go further on that?
16:17
How has that changed his congregation?
16:19
Cause you mentioned it a little bit there that obviously there was a major heart change
16:22
and direction change for him and his ideology, but in terms of tangibly on the ground, what
16:27
did that change at his church?
16:30
One of the things I think it changed was people preaching the gospel to themselves, not just
16:35
to do better, try harder because inevitably what he said is the false gospel that he would
16:41
lean into, now these are my words, but you hear it all the time where a lot of sermons
16:45
are God is good.
16:46
You are bad.
16:47
Try harder.
16:48
See you next week.
16:49
And it just leads to this exhaustion.
16:52
And that's, I mean, really it's what the whole book of James is about, right?
16:55
There's two kinds of faith.
16:57
There's a fake faith that doesn't change anything.
16:59
And then there's a true faith that changes everything about you, but you're not trying
17:03
to earn it through your works, but because you have been adopted into the family, it drives
17:08
your works.
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You have two very different modes of living.
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That's bullspend.
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And marketers are calling it out in Dashboard Confessions.
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17:43
I would say that's the one thing that I get concerned about because, you know, for those
17:46
people that make the point, and they don't do it from a stupid point of view, because
17:49
I make fun of this quote often is like, be known for what you're for, not what you're
17:53
against people.
17:55
One of the things that you get into when you're in that mode is you are constantly going to
17:59
avoid the quote unquote bad things, like, I'm not going to drink.
18:02
I'm not going to dip.
18:03
I'm not going to smoke.
18:04
I'm not going to run with chicks that do.
18:05
I'm not going to, you know, that type of thing.
18:08
But it's like, so it's something actually clicked for me this last week in Joby.
18:12
I've always hated the story of the prodigal son because I feel the older brother.
18:17
I'm like, I feel you, bro.
18:18
Like your little brother is a jerk.
18:19
I hate him.
18:20
I want him to die.
18:21
I want him to die in that pig.
18:22
Pig's die.
18:23
And again, it's not, it's not a real story.
18:25
It's just a parable, but something my pastor said last week really, really clicked with
18:28
me.
18:29
And I'm sure someone else said it.
18:30
I just like was ignoring it, but it's like, look, everyone can see in the story that the
18:35
little brother has lost.
18:36
Like everyone can see that, but what most people miss is that the brother, the older
18:41
brother is equally lost because he resents the father and, but he's, he's dutiful, right?
18:49
So he's going to work and work and work and work and work someday hoping that it pays
18:54
off for him.
18:55
And that's just a different mindset.
18:56
And I'll, I'll say it finally clicked for me the, the, that whole parable finally clicked
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to where I was like, Oh God, of course, I'm the older brother that's lost, but just in
19:06
a cooler and, you know, more morally acceptable way.
19:09
You know what I mean?
19:10
Yeah.
19:11
We all reject God.
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Some people through religion.
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That would be the older brother.
19:14
Some people through rebellion.
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That's the younger brother.
19:16
You see it all the way back in the garden of Eden.
19:18
They reject God through rebellion.
19:20
Hey, if we want to eat this, we're going to eat this.
19:23
And then they simultaneously reject God through religion because they run and hide.
19:27
And what do they do?
19:28
They leave to say, we don't need you to cover our sin by our own acts of righteousness.
19:33
We can cover our own sin.
19:34
That's the picture.
19:35
Yeah.
19:36
The thing that gets me, first of all, I think people misunderstand it because I think it's
19:39
mislabeled.
19:40
So in Luke 15, the, it's the parable of the lost coin, the lost, uh, sheep.
19:47
And then it should be the lost sons.
19:50
If you just call it the parable of the lost sons, it would, but instead, you know, the
19:54
King James used the word prodigal, um, which means like lavish, but the real prodigal,
20:00
you know, Tim Keller wrote the book prodigal God and it's right.
20:04
The, the one displaying the lavish love is, or even lavish lifestyle is really the father
20:08
pouring out his lavish love.
20:10
The thing that gets me, man, when I preach that, probably the most choked up I've ever
20:15
gotten on stage here is preaching that, preaching the, the Luke 15.
20:20
And it's that part where it's not when the rebellious kid comes home.
20:24
That makes sense.
20:25
Everybody loves that.
20:26
It's when the dad goes out and the Bible says, entreats the older son.
20:30
If you look up that word, entreats, it means to like get on your needs and beg.
20:35
So in my context, that's me as the pastor of this church, begging church people to come
20:43
to the party and actually come to Christ on his terms instead of trying to earn it.
20:49
And what's really tough in my position, man, you can't, um, it's hard to tell the difference
20:55
between the lost and the found while on a Sunday morning service.
20:59
Everybody looks pretty found.
21:01
And it scares the heck out of me.
21:03
Well, and then you get back.
21:04
I mean, we just for the forgy table, we're going through Matthew and that part, uh, Matthew
21:08
eight or nine, it's the scariest part was Matthew seven, the scariest part of the whole
21:13
Bible is like, you know, you've done all these things in my name, but I never actually knew
21:17
you.
21:18
More terrifying thing like, yes, Sodom and Gomorrah terrifying.
21:22
Someone should tell JD Greer that there's a bunch of other things in this, in the Bible,
21:26
that is like really, really terrifying.
21:28
That is the most terrifying thing because that means your wife, your sons, your daughters,
21:33
the people you go to church with, the people in your Sunday school, the people in your
21:36
discipleship group, it's like they're doing the stuff that makes them look holy, but they
21:41
may not actually be holy.
21:43
And that's just absolutely terrifying.
21:44
But I'm getting way off in the weeds here and we got more questions to get to.
21:47
So let's get to the next question here from a follower.
21:50
This is from tie.
21:52
What are your thoughts on depictions of Christ in paintings, tattoos, TV shows, et cetera?
21:57
I know that it can be a polarizing topic as some see depictions as breaking the second
22:02
commandment would love to hear your thoughts.
22:04
So the second commandment is thou shalt not make unto the any graven image.
22:10
And there are a lot of people that have interpreted that to be kind of similar to what Islam
22:14
does with with the prophet Muhammad that you can't try to do pictures of them.
22:20
There's no chosen that you shouldn't paint them in paintings on fresco's or any of those
22:24
types of things.
22:25
So what's your thought there?
22:27
So originally what was happening is they were making images of the invisible God and then
22:34
worshiping those images, see the golden calf coming right on the heels of this.
22:41
Now one of the things that is different is God has been made visible in the person, his
22:46
son Jesus Christ, the second person of the Trinity.
22:51
So things are a bit different.
22:53
I mean, ultimately I think it's going to come down to the heart, right, like I would be
22:57
very, very careful of all the people that do paint paintings of Jesus in their own image.
23:03
You know what I mean?
23:04
Like choose your ethnicity and when people try to turn a first century Jewish man into
23:08
whatever they want him to look like so that he looks more like them.
23:12
That I think is what's what the heart of the second commandment is about.
23:16
One of the things that you'll see and I think it's kind of helpful for Bible study is there's
23:21
a big old spectrum when it comes to interpretation of verses like this and on either side of whatever
23:28
true is down the middle, there's going to be error.
23:33
So you just got to be careful with that too.
23:35
Like anybody that wears a cross, you think they're breaking the second commandment?
23:38
I don't think that's true.
23:40
But then you can go all the way to the other side where you're creating images of Jesus
23:43
in your own image.
23:44
I think that's exactly what this is speaking against.
23:47
And then within orthodoxy, there's even often enough room where we can give each other some
23:57
freedom of conscience based on what your interpretation of that word is and not necessarily throw
24:02
darts at one another.
24:04
So I'm in the camp of like, I mean, I got a lot of tattoos with crosses and thorns and
24:10
things like that.
24:11
I don't have a picture of Jesus homie, but I've also got no problem with the chosen and
24:17
I know there's a lot of people throwing stones there, but it seems to me that people are
24:20
trying to give people an understanding of what it could have been like when Jesus was
24:27
walking around.
24:28
Well, I think that's absolutely right.
24:29
I can't stand the depictions of Jesus where Jesus looks vaguely like me.
24:33
It's like, come on, like he didn't look anything like a half Irish, somewhat chalked all, you
24:40
know, American, like he looked like a Middle Eastern Jew in the first century.
24:44
Well, so since we, we, I brought up the chosen in the sense you talked about there.
24:48
Obviously, there's a lot of stones that have been thrown at that show.
24:51
I like the show.
24:52
My understanding is that you like the show, but there are some things that have come to
24:56
light during the filming of season four that have really kind of terrified a lot of people
25:02
that are in the audience for the chosen that have given money to the chosen.
25:06
And that was the pride flag that was found on set during one of the filming's, you know,
25:11
there was a little bitty pride flag on a cameraman's setup or something like that.
25:16
And it wasn't just that the pride flag was on set.
25:20
It was how Dallas Jenkins responded to it.
25:23
He went, he didn't just kind of explain himself and just be like, Hey man, we got a lot of
25:27
Christians that work on the show, but also non-Christians and Jews and atheists and Muslims
25:32
and like there's a lot of people that work on the show.
25:34
We can't, you know, we can't be hall monitors and make sure that everybody's not wearing
25:38
or bringing something on set.
25:40
The problem was is he didn't in any full-throated way repudiate the ideology that that flag represents
25:47
on a show specifically about Jesus.
25:49
And he basically called people that were critical of it like bad and judgmental and a lot of
25:54
actors from the show, many of whom are actually secular folks.
25:58
They came out saying, we're standing with our LGBTQ brothers and blah, blah, blah, blah.
26:02
And the whole time, it's like, yeah, but this is a show about, about Jesus and the truth
26:06
of the gospel.
26:07
And I don't think that they would have responded the same way if a cameraman had brought it
26:11
in an ISIS flag or a swastika flag or, you know, the flag for pedophiles.
26:16
They have their own flag if you didn't know that.
26:18
So had you heard about that, yeah, they do.
26:21
And had you heard about that controversy and I guess what are your thoughts about, you
26:25
know, a, a basically a movie set where something like that is seen there?
26:30
Yeah.
26:31
I didn't know anything about all that stuff.
26:33
So I would say, um, yeah, it seems like the appropriate, if I found myself in that position,
26:40
I would hope I would have the character maturity to say something like, as for me in my house
26:46
and if I'm in charge of this, I stand on the firm foundation of the authoritative word
26:51
of God period in dot.
26:53
This is what the Bible says, this is what the Bible means.
26:56
This is what Christians have believed for 2000 years.
27:01
And in the reality of making a, like I'm not completely convinced that every single electrician
27:07
and plumber here at 1122 is a believer because we contract with all kinds of outside people
27:12
to fix buildings, you know what I mean?
27:17
Which I think is totally fine, but obviously anybody on my staff down to the camera people
27:22
and lighting technicians are fully devoted followers of Jesus Christ.
27:26
And so I would make that distinction and man, just anytime somebody moves away from the
27:33
authority of the word of God, pay very close attention because the spirit of God is going
27:36
to move away from them.
27:37
So, and then I get it.
27:39
I get a guy that's trying to like do a show and trying to, um, trying to thread the needle,
27:46
which I get.
27:47
I understand that one of the things I find interesting, there was a bunch of questions
27:52
in the New Testament in the gospels that Jesus refused to answer because he knew that the
27:58
religious people were trying to trap him.
28:00
Right.
28:01
So I have a little bit of a, I've got some empathy for the pastor that finds himself,
28:07
you know, he's doing some kind of interview and he's getting blindsided by a question because
28:13
no matter what he says, he's going to lose.
28:15
Sure.
28:16
Like if he's trying to reach people, you know, because, and so we've got a pretty good precedent
28:20
of Jesus saying, you ain't going to pay me in a corner, you know what I mean?
28:24
However, your answers should still be clear, like about whatever this book says, that's
28:31
what I believe period that I mean, this is my authority.
28:36
And so if he is trying to recreate a new ethic that is different than what Jesus said and
28:44
Jesus was very, very clear.
28:45
The sex is one man, one woman, one life stuff, one lifetime.
28:49
Anything outside of that is Porneo is in that junk drawer of sexual sin.
28:56
And which is not the least popular thing in the world to say now, but who can, I mean,
28:59
but I, I'm a big, you know, Galatians 110 fan like, am I trying to win the applause manner
29:04
of God?
29:06
So no, I'm absolutely with you and in Dallas, I will, he and I have a relationship or friendship
29:13
whenever season four is set to release, I will invite him to come back on the show and I
29:17
will absolutely ask him about that.
29:19
Because it's like, look, you know, you did long videos and you explained yourself.
29:23
So it wasn't like you just got caught, you know, in one of those quick TV hit interviews,
29:27
like you had a long time to think about this.
29:29
And he and I actually messaged back and forth about it before it was a big deal.
29:33
Because I was like, I saw this on like the bottom of the barrel on some random profile
29:38
on Twitter.
29:39
And I send to him and like, Hey man, just in case you probably need to be thinking about
29:42
how you want to communicate about this, because this is small now, but I don't think it's
29:45
going to stay that way.
29:47
And within 24 hours, it was like it was like the fire and everything.
29:52
It just completely erupted.
29:53
So I'll certainly ask him about that.
29:55
All right, we'll get on to our next question here.
29:56
This is from Benjamin.
29:58
What advice do you have for guys who can't seem to find their calling?
30:01
I think several men who listen to the show, myself included, might be unsure about what
30:05
they want to do for a career or want to move careers.
30:09
What kind of life experiences do you have in this?
30:12
Do people come to you with career questions?
30:16
Yeah, man, Benjamin, you have a calling.
30:18
It's called the Great Commission.
30:19
I know what you mean by your question.
30:20
And I'm not trying to like Jesus, Duke, you, but every single one of us have the same calling
30:26
and it is the Great Commission that God is most glorified in us taking the gospel to
30:32
the ends of the earth and then making disciples and make disciples and make disciples.
30:37
So if you start there, if you quit saying, I don't know what I want to do with my life
30:43
and you start with, I know God wants me to be a part of the Great Commission and you set
30:48
your eyes towards that, then I do think as you were on your road towards that, then I
30:55
think you got to go to like John chapter three, right?
30:57
Jesus is talking to Nicodemus about how the spirit of God works.
31:02
And he's like, it's like the wind, man, the spirit of God is just like the wind.
31:06
And the only way that the wind works is you got to get off of the dock and set sail and
31:10
get out there and just get going.
31:12
So pick something that you think is God glorifying and I don't believe there's like a divide
31:17
between the sacred and the secular, like I don't think my job is holy because I work
31:20
at church and the plumber's job isn't because he works for a plumber.
31:25
I think me and the Christ centered plumber are all just trying to make much of God and
31:31
you just get going towards something, okay? And while you're trying to figure out what
31:36
your career is and what your vocation is and how God would use that for his glory, get
31:42
you a job and work real hard and make some money.
31:45
And as you were on the go, God oftentimes clarifies that.
31:49
So pay attention to what Godly people around you tell you they see in you.
31:54
Pay attention to the kind of gifts and talents God has given you, but you got to not aim
31:59
it at yourself, you got to aim it at him.
32:01
Like I'm doing like the reason I'm going to teach school is for the glory of God.
32:05
The reason I'm going to build houses is because it is for the advancement of the kingdom when
32:10
you get about that kind of thing.
32:13
Now one of the things that you could do also is just leverage your career for the Great
32:18
Commission.
32:19
One of the things we started at our church that I ripped off from my good friend JD Greer
32:23
is we asked a bunch of our college graduates to consider giving us two years of their life
32:31
right after graduation because you got to do your job somewhere.
32:34
You might as well do it strategically.
32:36
And so like somebody graduates from University of North Florida with a nursing degree and
32:42
we'll send them to Edinburgh, Scotland where we've planted a couple churches and the hospital
32:46
will pay their all their salary and they will be like the best covenant member of that local
32:52
church that they can be.
32:53
And so for sure, nursing is a godly thing.
32:56
I mean, it's incredible.
32:57
Right.
32:58
God uses the nurses all the time.
32:59
Right.
33:00
But oftentimes you use your career to fund whatever ministry God would have you do also.
33:05
When I think you make a really good point that it seems almost curt to bring it up.
33:09
But it's like so many people are searching for that passionate job, that job that's going
33:13
to be so fulfilling and fill their cup and it's like bro, you're broke.
33:17
Like just just get a job like whenever I first got married, my wife and I got married in
33:21
2009, most people remember that year because the entire economy basically crashed.
33:27
And so here I am graduated top of my class and I'm working part time at a bank as a teller.
33:32
Right.
33:33
I'm working part time, you know, mowing lawns.
33:35
I did like countertops and different things because I needed to prove to my wife.
33:40
I sold coupon books door to door.
33:43
It's like boo, whatever it takes, I'm going to make sure that we can eat and live indoors.
33:47
And so yeah, the passionate thing, the thing that fills your cup, the things that shoots
33:52
you out of bed every morning to get to go and do.
33:54
Yes.
33:55
That is something that you should look for.
33:56
But at the end of the day, eating food and living indoors is pretty awesome.
34:00
And again, we see from scripture, like he knows all God knows all the hairs on your head,
34:04
you know, he knows he can he can count them, right?
34:06
He knows the exact number.
34:07
The sparrows don't fall from the sky without God knowing.
34:10
So he's going to be able to take care of you.
34:12
Don't worry.
34:13
You won't be homeless.
34:14
So we're kind of up against time here.
34:16
We have time for one more question.
34:17
Of course it is.
34:19
Okay.
34:20
So this is a me question because this has come up for me in conversations with people
34:24
that are, I don't know, they're, they're very skeptical of the Bible and especially Old
34:29
Testament stories are like, wait a minute, this doesn't make sense.
34:31
And it's like, Hey, you have a morality about something right now.
34:35
But what about when it was happening back in the day?
34:38
So specifically, if incest is morally wrong, which I would assume that all of us would
34:43
say yes to that, then how do you explain the propagation of humans starting with Adam and
34:50
Eve?
34:51
That that's a huge question that that doesn't come up often in Christian apologetic circles,
34:55
but it's like, wait a minute, incest is wrong, like, but incest had to have happened for humanity
35:01
to get up and going.
35:02
So explain that dichotomy.
35:04
Well, that's very complicated.
35:07
But a good answer in it is found, Mark Driscoll wrote a book on doctrine really, I think he's
35:15
rewriting it right now.
35:16
But the first couple of chapters in that are here are multiple Orthodox views of what the
35:24
Bible says in the first 12 chapters of the book of Genesis.
35:29
And it helps explain like, here's how throughout, throughout church history, people that love
35:33
Jesus, believe the authority of the scriptures, here are multiple Orthodox views that could
35:39
be how you explain these kinds of things.
35:43
You know, like where did can go?
35:45
How was there already a city there?
35:47
How were there already people outside of the garden within one generation?
35:52
I would highly encourage you, instead of me just trying to give you like a version of
35:55
what I think right now, I think it's really helpful to find resources like that.
36:00
The key though, is to find the kind of resources that are happy to share, you know, like traditionally
36:06
here's what the president here is thing.
36:08
Here's what the church fathers thought here, here are multiple explanations because I know
36:12
you like to bring up like young earth old earth that you're not going to deal with that.
36:16
I think one of the mistakes, right.
36:18
So in a similar way to answer that, one of the mistakes is to say, this is how it happened.
36:25
I think a better way to look at it is to say throughout church history, here are, there's
36:30
a bunch of heresies and then here are three or four explanations and all of them are within
36:35
the confines of the authority of scripture and different, different, godly, faithful
36:42
people have believed one of these three or four versions and I think that kind of, those
36:47
kind of resources are very helpful.
36:49
Mark Driscoll's book doctrine on the, on creation and the propagation of the human species in
36:55
the first 12 chapters, he talks about that at the beginning of that book.
36:57
I think it's pretty good. Okay, very good.
37:00
Well, hey, in this first, uh, this first voyage into ask a pastor with Jobe Martin, we hit
37:05
all of my questions except for one.
37:07
So we'll keep that for next time.
37:08
Is there anything you want to get off your chest before we get out of here?
37:11
I was surprised you didn't ask me about one about current pastors and, uh, what pastors
37:18
I don't even know.
37:19
Well, it might be because we're recording this a few weeks, but you know, before it comes
37:23
out and by then there will probably be another pastor that's fallen.
37:27
And you're assistant who I love, who's fantastic, who I won't name here, just in case I get
37:31
in trouble.
37:32
She, you know, was a little nervous about this first one because she kind of knows I will
37:35
just ask anything that comes to my brain.
37:37
So I wanted to show her that I'm a good guy and that I'm not just going to, you know,
37:42
throw, you know, fire bombs every time.
37:44
So as long as she's cool with it, then I'm cool with it.
37:47
No, I'm, I'm really honored for this opportunity seriously.
37:51
And I do think, Kyle, that this up, this plat, your platform with Undone to life, which
37:57
I, who I listen to all the time.
37:59
And really, and I'm into the forging table and I've, you mentioned it, the forging table
38:04
is like research for me, not because you all say Bible things that I don't necessarily
38:07
know, which happens for sure.
38:09
Cause you all do your research, just legit, um, but it is, you mentioned it on the duck
38:14
commander people's podcast, um, unashamed that it helps me because I get this like real
38:20
insight to a bunch of 30 year old guys that love the Lord and love their families and
38:24
are studying their Bible.
38:25
And when as I'm writing sermons and I can listen to, to the forging table, it gives
38:30
me like, I mean, I'm, I feel like a fly on the wall and a Bible study of a bunch of young
38:34
men that I'm trying to disciple.
38:36
So I appreciate that.
38:38
And I also think this, this platform, I'll probably be willing to talk about a lot more
38:42
stuff because you bring up the topics, not me.
38:45
If I just, I have, I have a podcast, but it's primarily just to help deepen people's relationships
38:51
with Jesus that either listen to my sermons or attend our church.
38:54
So thanks, man.
38:55
I appreciate it.
38:56
Well, and it's aptly called deep and, but the cool thing, kind of give people a little
38:59
peek behind the curtain before we get you out of here.
39:01
I pitched you on this idea of like, Hey, what if we did a once a month kind of Q and A thing
39:06
similar to what I do with, you know, Mark Wayne, Mullen, the, the United States Senator and
39:10
you're like, I love the idea.
39:12
Let me take it to my team.
39:13
And then I met some of your team whenever I was down there in Jacksonville at your church
39:16
and they came to me and they were like, we were literally trying to figure out how to
39:20
do a Q and A podcast with Joby.
39:22
That was outside of the sermons and outside of the deep and podcast.
39:26
And then he's like, Hey, Kyle with a donut wants to do that.
39:29
And they're like, great.
39:30
Let's let Kyle mess with it.
39:31
He can mess with all the questions.
39:33
And if something goes wrong, we can blame him.
39:35
He's red headed everyone will believe us.
39:37
And so it worked out absolutely fantastically, but I really, really appreciate your time.
39:41
We'll see you next time.
39:42
Peace.
39:43
Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode.
39:46
Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five
39:49
star review.
39:50
If you want to come speak alive at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an email
39:53
to info@undonton.life.
39:56
That's I N F O at undonton.life.
39:58
Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else,
40:02
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40:05
Just go to www.undonton.life and also we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us
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40:12
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40:18
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40:19
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
40:21
Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
40:27
Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
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