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This is Undaunted Life Man's Podcast.
0:53
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
0:55
Let's get into it.
0:57
Joby, you're back.
0:58
You don't look any worse for where you've been.
1:01
I've been doing great, man.
1:02
It's good to be back.
1:03
Although I think that age in like past years and dog years are real similar.
1:07
Okay.
1:08
Well, you know, I'm not going to say that looks to be the case, but you know, because that
1:11
would be rude.
1:12
But you know, we'll kind of move on from there.
1:13
A couple of quick things, one that's funny, one that's not so funny from the jump here.
1:17
Number one, I'm hearing from fans of ours that listen to your first Ask a Pastor with
1:22
Joby Martin.
1:23
Hey, has anyone ever told you that he kind of sounds like Matthew McConaughey when he
1:27
talks?
1:28
And I was like, okay, we have Texas country and then we have South Carolina sticks.
1:33
And so the only way to test this, Joby is we need you to say, all right, all right,
1:38
all right, we need you to say it right now, all right, all right, all right.
1:42
Okay.
1:43
See, I see you corrected.
1:44
What's funny is I do hear that, but I only hear it weddings.
1:48
I don't know what it is about like when I do a wedding, because you know, you don't get
1:51
fired up at a wedding, you're pretty, it's not like I'm preaching preaching.
1:55
Yeah.
1:56
But whatever, he sounds cool.
2:00
Okay.
2:01
Yeah.
2:02
And you know, we don't need you to say some of those other famous things will just stick
2:04
with all right.
2:05
All right.
2:06
All right.
2:07
I told these people that they were nuts, but apparently I'm the idiot, but to transition
2:10
and there's really no nice way of transitioning to this.
2:12
And just to kind of pull the veil back a little bit, guys, we typically record these three
2:16
or four weeks before they come out, we're going to change that in 2024.
2:20
But as of the recording of this, it is lunchtime on Wednesday, October the 11th, which is just
2:25
a handful of days after Hamas did a coordinated attack on Israel, killing over a thousand civilians,
2:33
killing Americans, kidnapping hundreds, if not thousands more.
2:37
And so, Joby, I want your thoughts just initially, but to everyone listening to this right now,
2:43
this is weeks ago.
2:44
Okay.
2:45
So we have no idea what's going to happen.
2:47
Hezbollah could have attacked Israel.
2:50
There have been reports in the last hour that Hezbollah shooting rockets at the north part
2:53
of Israel.
2:54
Syria could get involved.
2:55
Iran can get involved.
2:56
Jordan and Egypt might be playing some games, which obviously attaches to China and Russia
3:01
and the United States and everybody else.
3:03
So just give me your initial thoughts here before we get into some of the questions.
3:07
I mean, I think my initial thoughts should be what every God-fearing human being on
3:13
the planet and it's just like this is utter evil and sheer terror, especially when you
3:20
hear, so like real time to us, what was it yesterday when they find that the capitated
3:26
babies and things like that?
3:27
I mean, if you don't believe in evil itself, then I don't know, man, you're just too dumb
3:35
to talk to it.
3:37
And so I pray for Israel.
3:39
I stand with Israel.
3:41
I'd lead trips to the Holy Land every other year or so with our church.
3:45
So it's not just a theological stance based on some of the promises made to and through
3:51
Abraham for me as a Bible believing Christian.
3:54
It's also we've got some ministry friends over there.
3:59
I don't know, man.
4:00
I mean, pray for peace.
4:04
We also, one of the things that my heart goes out to is there are some Palestinian Christian
4:11
friends that we have.
4:13
Now they would also reject everything that Hamas is doing, okay?
4:19
But victims of the terrorist regime, both Jew and Palestinian are to be prayed for, you
4:27
know, so I do think Israel has every right to righteously respond with justice and they
4:38
have to protect their people.
4:40
And yet it's really, really sad, the amount of innocent people, women and children and
4:49
civilians that are going to get caught up in this, and they didn't get to decide where
4:53
they live, and they are not trying to hate another group of people.
4:59
And so it's really, I mean, this is like the collateral damage of evil, man, but to call
5:04
this anything other than an evil assault and a demonic move, then you just got your head
5:10
in the sand.
5:11
Well, it's hard to even put words to it, but I remember yesterday, because again, we're
5:15
steeped in it yesterday, I spent the entire day marinating in the reports in the pictures
5:20
in the videos of what would have been going on, because I'm teaching Sunday school this
5:25
coming Sunday, and I was going to teach on another rough topic, and I switched to the
5:28
reality of evil specifically because of this.
5:31
And I remember just talking to someone on the phone and I couldn't get the sentence out
5:35
of saying 40 babies murdered, some shot in the head, some decapitated, some burned alive.
5:42
It's an unspeakable thing.
5:44
Well, one quick question, and I'm not setting you up because I wasn't planning on asking
5:47
you, but I've said to friends in private texts, and I can't, I don't know if I've said it publicly
5:53
at this point, I likely will, that we should all pray for the Hamas terrorists to repent.
5:57
And if they don't, we should pray for them to die quickly, because they are immediately
6:02
threats to image bearers of God with every breath that they take.
6:05
Is that a fair statement for a Christian to make?
6:08
I think, um, if you just wanted to clean it up a little bit, which you were never interested
6:13
in, nope, you could just pray for the justice of God.
6:18
Because there's only, because justice will happen either like, here's what's crazy.
6:25
The Hamas people will glorify God with their lives, either in bending their knee to Jesus
6:31
and being an unbelievable testimony of his grace, or receiving his just judgment.
6:38
Either way, God will be glorified.
6:40
And so it, as you get down into the details, it sounds a little grimy, but yes, it is a
6:47
right thing for, for us as believers to pray for God's justice to Hamas.
6:55
Okay.
6:56
And here's the second awkward transition of this podcast.
6:59
Let's get into the actual questions I was going to ask you.
7:02
Just recently I heard you talk about how the church of 1122, your multi-site church down
7:07
there in Florida has grown in the last calendar year by around 7,000 attendees.
7:14
And so I have a two part question here.
7:16
So number one, how in the heck does that happen?
7:18
Like that, that's pretty amazing.
7:19
But then the other thing you also talked about recently where you were, you were giving a
7:23
sermon and your dad was there in the front row.
7:26
And I want to know what it's like preaching to your father.
7:28
So it's, it's an audience of tens of thousands, but it's also an audience of law and because
7:33
my dad's never heard me speak and I can't, like I get even a little bit upset thinking
7:38
about how important that would be to me to have my dad in the front row.
7:41
So talk to me about both sides.
7:44
Um, yeah, the growth thing is, I mean, we're a large and growing church, but we've been
7:49
doing the same thing we've always done.
7:50
We just, man, we, we worship intensely.
7:52
I teach the Bible.
7:54
The biggest growth we've had as we did a, like a 14 week series in the book of James,
7:59
just not even verse by verse word by word, there's a book of James.
8:02
And that's a rough book.
8:03
That's a rough book to bring people to man.
8:06
I mean, it is totally rough.
8:07
So I mean, God's just doing his thing.
8:09
I mean, the real, the real secret sauce, the gospel saves first and foremost, um, I'm not
8:15
trying to knock the way other churches do it, but we know that the power is in the gospel
8:20
and we preach the Bible.
8:21
We preach the gospel.
8:22
We stand only authority of God's word.
8:25
Um, our people are fully bought into praying for what we call their one more because we
8:31
think that, uh, again, we're not trying to be a big church.
8:33
We're just trying to reach one more person because Jesus is the kind of shepherd that
8:37
would leave the 99 for the one.
8:39
And so our people are inviting their people and God's saving them.
8:43
And then we're also, we're really, really serious about helping our people get connected
8:47
and discipleship relationships.
8:48
I tell our staff all the time, we should never expect God to send us people.
8:52
We can't disciple.
8:54
Why would he do that?
8:55
I mean, the imperative and the great commission is to make disciples.
8:58
So we're actually more, uh, focus on discipleship than just, than crowds.
9:04
And, um, but it was kind of a shock to me too.
9:07
As you just, I don't look at a lot of the, like attendance records and stuff, but because
9:11
of the season that we're in, um, yeah, last November, we were running about 12,000 and
9:16
right now we're running about 19.
9:18
So Lord God, my dad being here, bro, I started praying for the salvation of my father when
9:26
I was 17 years old.
9:28
He got saved three years ago when I was 47 and, um, via text, by the way, I was working
9:35
on a sermon on prayer and, uh, where Jesus says, you know, Hey man, what father among
9:42
you if his kid asked for a fish would give him a scorpion.
9:46
And I wrote in my notes, I have a good dad because my dad's a good dad, man.
9:49
He's a good dude.
9:50
And I'm telling you the spirit of God said, texting, I've tried to share the gospel with
9:54
him a thousand times.
9:55
And so I sent him a text and said, daddy, I know you made a profession of faith when
10:00
you were 12, like every good little Southern Baptist kid in the South did, but have you
10:05
ever surrendered your life to the Lordship of Christ?
10:07
And if not, are you ready to right now?
10:10
Send.
10:11
And then I put my phone down and I waited for what felt like an hour and a half.
10:15
It was about three minutes later, my phone buzzes.
10:18
I flipped it over and it just said, I'm ready.
10:21
And I called him.
10:22
He entered a Christ.
10:24
So now he's moving here.
10:27
He's in the process of selling us house in Virginia.
10:28
He's moving here.
10:29
He's going to serve on our parking team.
10:32
And yeah, it's great.
10:34
He's sitting on the front row, just a new believer and listening to his son.
10:39
But the thing about it is, man, my dad was always that dad.
10:42
He coached all the stuff and showed up to all the things.
10:46
And so even before he was super interested in the following Jesus part, he still like
10:51
showed up and supported me because no matter how old I am, he's, you know, I'm still his
10:56
kid.
10:57
Hey, guys, real quick.
10:58
The financial status of most American families is not great, doesn't that make you sad?
11:02
It should make you sad.
11:03
And this is going to blow your mind.
11:04
According to a recent Gallup poll, 88% of non-retired Americans are very worried about
11:09
having enough money to retire.
11:11
And in that same poll, only 19% of non-retired Americans even think that they will have enough
11:16
money to retire comfortably.
11:17
That's 19%.
11:19
Not very much.
11:20
But the thing is though, the reality is much worse than that.
11:23
So I've seen estimates that claim that roughly 95% of non-retired Americans are currently
11:28
not on track to be able to retire, 95%.
11:32
And that is only concerning savings and investments.
11:34
That doesn't even account for people that are exposed to serious financial problems if
11:38
they were to get too sick or to hurt to work.
11:41
And God forbid if they pass away without having a plan to keep their family financially whole,
11:45
it's just, it's a crazy mess.
11:47
And that's why I want to introduce you to my friend and my financial advisor, Mike McCall
11:51
with Bluecrest Financial.
11:53
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11:58
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12:01
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12:06
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12:08
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12:11
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12:15
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12:19
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12:23
I trust Mike McCall with my financial planning.
12:25
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12:28
So to receive your free personal and or business financial assessment, go to the link in the
12:32
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12:37
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12:46
That is incredible to hear.
12:47
I have a similar story praying for my my own father's salvation and just really for any
12:54
of those people that are important to you.
12:55
It's like selfishly you want to see him again after they're no longer here on this earth,
12:59
but that is an incredible thing.
13:00
Again, congratulations on the growth of the church, but you kind of gave me a little bit
13:05
of crap after our first ask a pastor, you're like, Hey, Kyle, why didn't you ask me any
13:09
tough ones, right?
13:10
And I freaking asked you about yeah, you basically said that here.
13:13
So you're like, Kyle, you're not good at this anymore.
13:15
You know, you're 500 episodes in.
13:16
Apparently you're just mailing it in at this point.
13:18
I was like, okay, well, here's the thing again, I like your staff.
13:23
They're always nervous when I'm around.
13:24
I try to not make people nervous, but it's just one of my natural strengths.
13:28
I make people very uncomfortable on a regular basis.
13:30
So let's get uncomfortable.
13:32
Let's get weird.
13:33
So again, speaking of which it's October the 11th.
13:36
So by the time y'all hear this, this will be long and everybody's distant memory.
13:40
Andy Stanley, speaking of other churches and the way that they do it in North Point, he
13:45
is a prominent pastor.
13:46
As far as I know it, y'all aren't buddies, y'all aren't Texan buddies.
13:49
You aren't hunting buddies.
13:50
But I think maybe you've met him once or twice.
13:52
So y'all are not officially connected in any way there, you know, they're not a network
13:57
church of yours.
13:58
You're not a network church of theirs.
13:59
So on and so forth.
14:00
At this point, Joby, everyone in my audience is fully caught up to speed on Andy Stanley
14:04
and my thoughts on him because this year I've called him a heretic.
14:07
I did an update where I called him a heretic again and then I called him a circle drawing
14:11
snake.
14:12
And so at this point, I'm wondering why more prominent pastors, not named Albert Moller,
14:19
are not willing to give Andy Stanley the old right there for it for what he's doing on
14:23
the whole, the whole LGBTQ thing, the double speak, the speaking one way from the pulpit
14:28
in another way with every other part of his life.
14:31
So let's talk about Andy Stanley.
14:33
Yeah, man, so well, one, I don't know that like when and where I would do that and like
14:43
right now, because you're asking me about it.
14:44
Well, here's a great time to do it.
14:46
Let's do it right now.
14:48
But in general, just just in general, there's a very different role between a prophet and
14:55
a shepherd and you definitely have more of a prophet role because the prophet just drops
15:00
truth bombs and a shepherd is trying to take a group of people to green pastors to, you
15:07
know, still waters, those kinds of things towards the Lord.
15:09
And so I have not made it a habit to pick on or just point out other pastors inconsistencies
15:17
from the pulpit.
15:19
I think the last time I did it was when Rob Bell released Love Winds and I just warned
15:23
people this book is heretical, please don't even buy it because I don't want you to support
15:28
his support, what he's doing.
15:30
So get a copy from a library if you feel like you want to read it or whatever, but it's
15:34
all false.
15:35
Now, when you first privately started asking me about this with the conference that he
15:41
ran, I said, maybe we should take the Maileal's advice and you said, what is that?
15:47
And I didn't answer you on purpose.
15:49
So I know, right?
15:51
All right.
15:52
So Peter and John are before the Sanhedrin or before the Pharisees because they healed
15:56
a guy in Jesus name and they're fighting about what they ought to do with the boys.
15:59
And then Gamaliel, the chief of the Pharisees walks in the room and says, here's what we
16:03
ought to do, nothing.
16:06
And here's why, because if it's of God, you can't stop it.
16:09
And if it's not, it don't matter.
16:11
Now, all I was saying to you is let's let him speak first before we decide what he really
16:19
meant.
16:20
Well, now he has spoken and it's worse than I thought.
16:25
So I think he's one of the smartest guys out there.
16:30
So many of us have learned from him.
16:32
I think he is not in the same place that he was, man.
16:36
And here's what I mean.
16:38
I'm listening to that sermon that you connected me with on how to listen to because he didn't
16:42
put it out there.
16:45
And you just got to take his words for what they mean, right?
16:48
So I do think his heart is enormous and I do think in his mind, he's trying to say the
16:57
church needs to have a response for parents with kids that are LGBTQ, et cetera, et cetera.
17:03
And so at first, I'm like, all right, if I give you the benefit of the doubt, I'm with
17:07
okay, okay, I hear you, you know what I mean?
17:10
And then the place that he absolutely stepped over the line and I don't know how there's
17:16
any coming back except without a public repentance before God and people is the moment he said,
17:24
well, he made me nervous when he said, well, people ask me what we believe.
17:28
Why don't we talk about what we teach?
17:30
And I thought, why are you making a distinction?
17:32
Is there a distinction between what you want you teach?
17:35
There shouldn't be.
17:36
All right.
17:37
I mean, I don't.
17:38
So the moment you begin and for those of you listening, I'm holding up the Bible.
17:43
The moment you begin to think that it's a good idea to move away from the scripture for
17:49
the sake of evangelism, Jesus has left the building.
17:54
I'm telling you, you're the church of Laodicea.
17:56
He's outside now knocking going, can I come in?
17:59
Because he ain't in there.
18:02
Paul Romans 1, bro, the power is the gospel, period, not, not environments, not good preaching.
18:10
And so the moment you begin to move away from this, you're moving away from what matters
18:15
most.
18:16
Now, when he began to say, when he said, all right, here's what we teach.
18:19
We teach one man, one woman, one lifetime.
18:22
That's the covenant of marriage.
18:24
We've always taught their homosexuality, the act of homosexuality is a sin.
18:29
And we've called many, many people that are Christians to live wet that way.
18:33
Okay.
18:34
We're in orthodoxy.
18:36
Peter said in my heart, breaks for that, and how do we reach these people with the good
18:40
news of the gospel and yadda yaddan?
18:42
No problem.
18:43
Sure.
18:44
Then he says, and some people choose to live a celibate lifestyle, and this is not word
18:48
for word for sure.
18:49
So I'm not quoting him.
18:50
I'm just trying to summarize.
18:52
And then we said, and some people can't sustain that.
18:55
So they get married for the same reason you do what?
19:01
Absolutely not.
19:03
That is, that's not even twisting the Bible.
19:06
It's just anti what the Bible says.
19:09
So that put any other sin in there.
19:12
So some people choose not to look at pornography, but they can't sustain that lifestyle.
19:18
Therefore it's okay for them to note.
19:20
Some people cannot contain their anger.
19:22
They try to, but they're, it's an unsustainable way.
19:25
So they abuse their wives and we need to make a space for them.
19:28
Like, what are you talking about, man?
19:30
One, let's even turn the heat up.
19:31
Don't lose your train of thought, but you know, some pedophiles can really control their
19:35
attraction sexually to minors.
19:37
Some of them, it's just not sustainable.
19:39
Some white supremacists, they really can control their racist thoughts and actions, but for
19:43
some of them, it's not sustainable.
19:44
We would not draw a big old circle around somebody like that.
19:47
We would draw a line.
19:48
Yeah, I don't understand the circling line things like even the analogies dumb, because
19:55
a circle is a line, it just connects at both sides.
19:57
Like it's still, it was just inside and there's an outside.
20:00
What are you talking about?
20:01
That doesn't make sense.
20:02
And I don't know what he means about he's rejecting Moller's, Moller was making a doctrinal
20:07
statement and he was rejecting, like I get it stylistic, I do know Dr. Moller and he's
20:13
awesome, man.
20:14
He's, I mean, we do many, many different things differently, many things differently.
20:20
And but man, what a gracious man that is, he, he believes the Bible.
20:25
And so is that what Andy's rejecting?
20:27
I didn't want to believe it.
20:29
And here's the thing.
20:30
I, I'm sure we'll never talk now, but whatever, Andy Stanley preached a sermon at, at his dad's
20:36
church, back in the nineties, when I was in college, I watched Charles Stanley preach
20:40
on Sunday night.
20:41
You know, this is for internet and you could like look up whoever you wanted.
20:44
And he was just better at my preacher.
20:46
So I, I would watch him on Sunday nights before Andy Stanley was Andy Stanley, he's preaching
20:52
for his dad.
20:54
And he is preaching on sex and sexuality.
20:57
And he uses this illustration.
20:59
He says, he used his hands to like talk about it.
21:02
He says, there's what is and there's what ought to be.
21:05
And he says, what the world does is change the what ought to be to what is.
21:11
But what followers of Jesus do is they conform to what is to the what off to be.
21:17
Because God's standard does not change.
21:19
So our standard has to change to his.
21:22
I would love to show him that sermon that he preached and say, I think you're doing the
21:28
thing you said we're not supposed to do, bro.
21:30
What happened?
21:31
Now, I was having a, I was, I was training a bunch of pastors here at 11 22.
21:36
I mean, pastors from all over the country came here this week.
21:41
And we're sitting around a fire pit talking about stuff and this topic came up.
21:47
And this pastor, I'm not going to name him by name, but this pastor was, it, we started
21:50
somebody to Andy Stanley and he thought the sermon was great.
21:54
And I was like, hold on.
21:56
And then his, I know.
21:59
And so he's like, well, he's like, well, what is the church's response?
22:03
And he said, he talked about a specific example.
22:05
He says he lives next to this couple, two women and they've adopted a baby and or a child
22:11
and they're raising that child together and occasionally they will go to church with him.
22:16
And he says to me, like, well, the church does not have a good answer for them.
22:21
And I'm like, yes, it does.
22:23
It's called the gospel.
22:24
And then he goes, well, what would you call them to do?
22:27
I said, repent and believe.
22:29
And he goes, yes, but it's complicated.
22:31
I go.
22:32
So you don't think they have to die through their flesh?
22:34
I thought it's complicated for everybody, dude, it's not there's no doubt.
22:38
It costs them more, at least from the outside, looking in, it costs them more.
22:44
But the cost is that we laid on our whole life, but the cost for everybody is that I am crucified
22:50
with Christ.
22:51
It is no longer I who live.
22:52
So what is beginning to happen?
22:54
This is crazy, man.
22:55
You want to talk about how how sharp the enemy is.
22:58
The enemy has duped people into believing that you have to, that you have to avoid parts
23:08
of the Bible, undo part of the gospel for what they would think is the sake of evangelism.
23:14
Well, you, you, they're not getting saved, man.
23:18
You have to, you have to surrender your life to Jesus every bit of it, all of it.
23:22
And all of us do when this isn't was it, you that pointed this out whenever back during
23:28
the crusades, when nights would be baptized with their hands out of water, because they
23:32
knew their hands would do evil things.
23:34
That's you can't do that.
23:35
That's not the gospel.
23:36
That's 100%.
23:37
Yeah.
23:38
And then, you know, that is, I use that illustration all the time.
23:41
And in modern day, most of the time people, they have two hands out.
23:45
And one hand is their sexuality and the other hand is their wallet.
23:49
And they're like, Lord, you can have everything except these two.
23:51
So then he's not your Lord.
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24:22
Okay.
24:23
So to all the guys in the audience that have sent in questions, again, monthly donors of
24:29
the only ones I can get in on the ask a passer with Jobe Martin, I am so sorry because we're
24:33
not going to get to any of your questions today because we only have so much time and
24:36
I got to ask some follow-ups.
24:37
Okay.
24:38
So obviously I cosign everything that you've said.
24:41
And people characterized that sermon as, hey, he took an affirmative stance on gay marriage.
24:47
I was like shocked.
24:48
It's like, did he really?
24:49
And then you listen to the audio and it's like, well, no, not really.
24:52
And he did this case because he's a master communicator.
24:55
He did this cagey thing where he's communicating in a way to where he's taking you down the
24:59
primrose path and you don't realize that it's leading in a dark direction.
25:04
But then let's say that he fully, you know, double stamped, double stamped, triple stamped,
25:09
you know, the biblical definition of marriage, the conference that was held at his church
25:14
on the same stage just two days prior was hosted by a bunch of people that were all LGBTQ plus
25:21
affirming.
25:22
They advocated for chemical castration and sterilization of children in general mutilation.
25:27
There were two openly gay men that presented that are supposedly married to their male
25:33
partners.
25:34
The people that were there and the things that were said there were not even vaguely similar
25:39
to what we see in the Bible and were directly in opposition to what he was saying from the
25:44
pulpit again, not representing himself and his beliefs, but quote, unquote, what the
25:48
church teaches to talk to me a little bit about that because that's whenever I'm like, okay,
25:52
this guy, I was like, is he a wolf with the snake head or is he just like, is he the original
25:57
serpent at this point?
25:58
And the reason why I think pastors like you and then I'll shut up should call him out
26:02
from the pulpit is because of the same thing you were worried about with Rob Bell.
26:07
How many people in your audience also listen to Andy Stanley and then they're going to
26:12
come to your church and be skeptical about what you're saying because Andy Stanley is
26:16
a master communicator.
26:17
He went to seminary to his father is the Charles Stanley.
26:21
Maybe it's Joey.
26:22
That's wrong.
26:23
Do you get what I'm saying?
26:24
Yeah, for sure.
26:25
And he's way smarter than me and a much better communicator, which is so dangerous.
26:29
Um, you know, it's interesting this weekend, I'm teaching on, uh, we're doing a series
26:34
on proverbs, we're in this series right now called live abundantly.
26:37
And so, you know, Jesus came that we may have a life and have it abundantly.
26:40
And so right now we're in a series going through proverbs of some land minds that have blown
26:44
up people's lives.
26:45
Well, last week was on wisdom so we could get our head around this idea.
26:49
And then this week is on sex and sexuality.
26:52
And so there will be no vague notions of what I may or may, or what the Bible may or may
26:59
not teach in regards to sex and sexuality.
27:02
And God, we live in such a freaking crazy world now is I can't, I mean, we're starting
27:07
in proverbs five on adultery.
27:09
I can't even start there.
27:11
I have to back all the way up to boys have a penis and girls have a vagina.
27:15
That's where we have to start.
27:16
Yeah.
27:17
Back up to kindergarten cop.
27:18
Yeah, kindergarten cop, you're exactly right.
27:20
And so anyway, um, and yet I will look at many same sex couples in our church that attend
27:29
with great empathy, I mean, great empathy.
27:34
And it would be a disservice for me to do anything other than offer them a cool drink
27:41
of water that is from the scriptures that starts with admitting I'm a center, repent
27:46
from my sin and turn to Jesus.
27:49
So, um, I, on the conference thing, I haven't heard any of the content of it.
27:57
I can only imagine because it's not out there.
28:00
They, they've literally, they didn't live stream it, which I've never heard of a modern
28:04
conference not being live streamed at a lower ticket price.
28:07
They, they allowed no recording.
28:08
Again, you're listening to this a day before I report on this to where they literally did
28:13
not allow people to open up their laptops because they had plain closed police officers walking
28:19
around during the conference and during the breakout session.
28:22
So if anyone pulled out their phone, if anyone to take notes or if anyone pulled out their
28:26
laptop or iPad, any devices that could record, they would not allow that they would ask the
28:31
people to turn them off.
28:32
And if they wouldn't turn them off, they would ask them to leave.
28:34
And so it's like, you don't do that.
28:36
If you want your message to be heard far and wide, they, they brought in people that would
28:41
be, you know, mindless disciples of their ideology to send them back out to their respective
28:47
churches and communities to spread this nonsense evil version of the gospel, which says, yes,
28:53
you can dedicate your life to Christ, but you can't touch this one particular supposedly
28:57
sacred part of my life.
28:59
That's one of the most nefarious things about all this.
29:01
We will never see the videos and we will never hear the transcripts.
29:04
Yeah.
29:05
I mean, it, you know, it seems to be a bait and switch.
29:11
I would love to host the conference that was actually for parents of children struggling
29:17
with, with same sex attraction and struggling with the propaganda that's been thrown their
29:21
way, but I would be, listen, man, I'm the lead pastor of this church.
29:27
I will stand before the Lord one day and give it account for every single person that stood
29:31
in that pulpit, whether it was on a Wednesday or a Sunday or whatever.
29:35
And so I don't know how you invite, unless it's a debate or something like that.
29:41
I mean, I guess the context would matter.
29:43
You know, if you invited somebody to your stage, so that you could show them the folly of their
29:48
thinking in front of a bunch of people, but I mean, you know, bro, I mean, where there's
29:55
smoke, there's fire.
29:56
I think the undeniable thing is what he said about there are some people that cannot sustain
30:03
this kind of lifestyle, therefore they sin for the same reason that you choose marriage.
30:09
I mean, those are words that he said that are recorded.
30:13
I'm happy to talk about those and so now the cat is completely out of the bag.
30:21
This isn't a recorded thing to a bunch of pastors on the church needs to have a response
30:26
to the gay community.
30:27
The answer is right.
30:28
I mean, that answer is you're right.
30:30
The church does.
30:33
And the church has done a very poor job historically by ostracizing a certain group of people because
30:39
of their lifestyle or sinfulness.
30:42
And so we want to be the kind of church that all people can come to and repent of their
30:47
sin and meet Jesus and follow him.
30:49
And all does mean all.
30:51
But that does not mean, I mean, it is spiritual malpractice to somehow change what it means
30:58
to follow Jesus to fit a certain group of people.
31:01
So it's bad, man.
31:03
And it's so sad to me.
31:04
It is so sad to me.
31:06
Okay.
31:07
Then why not do your own conference?
31:09
Well, I mean, we got a lot.
31:13
There's a lot of things going on.
31:14
I don't because there's about a hundred different conferences we could do.
31:17
Well, and I've been hitting you on a few of them that you even pitched to me as ideas,
31:21
but we won't let the world in on that.
31:23
But I guess, I'm going to tell you, I think Kyle should host a men's conference.
31:27
We can host the leader level 22, but I think you should do it.
31:31
Sometimes his ideas are so big and so comprehensive.
31:34
I'm talking about you, Mr. Undaunted Life, that you might let like, bro, you got to
31:41
get your, you got to get your white belt before you move to your blue.
31:43
So I got my purple.
31:44
What are you talking about?
31:45
I got my purple.
31:46
What are you talking about?
31:47
Let's go.
31:48
Step must step.
31:49
Go.
31:50
But that's it.
31:51
I don't, I don't know.
31:52
I mean, I don't, I don't know that that's our role right now, you know, to do some kind
31:57
of parent conference for that kind of thing, but I would just do it very, very, very differently.
32:03
Okay.
32:04
Something to think about.
32:05
How much time we got left.
32:06
I don't want your staff to get mad at me before I ask anything else.
32:08
Oh, I'm wide open.
32:09
I just got to go to football practice after this.
32:11
No problem.
32:12
You shouldn't have told me that because I'm going to take advantage.
32:14
So staying on the 80 Stanley thing.
32:16
Why?
32:17
Yeah.
32:18
I mean, we can continue talking about the details and the words and the transcripts and the
32:22
meanings and the nuance and the blah, blah, blah.
32:24
The real question is why some people postulated and I've kind of gone.
32:29
I went with this for a bit and now I'm kind of coming backwards.
32:32
But Donald Trump broke his brain, just like Donald Trump broke a lot of people's brains.
32:37
There are a lot of well-meaning Christians that all of a sudden they're like, wait a
32:39
minute.
32:40
How could so many evangelicals vote for a guy that has had, you know, three wives that
32:44
says these horrible things that says, grab them by the P word that, you know, whatever,
32:47
like how could they vote for this guy?
32:49
And then just every time he said something mean on Twitter, they started, you know, basically
32:54
dying a little bit and the foundations of their life just started breaking apart, breaking
32:58
apart.
32:59
So when someone said, hey, you know, someone broke, you know, Trump broke Andy Stanley's
33:02
brain.
33:03
I was like, yeah, you're probably right.
33:04
But no, he was invited by Barack Obama to do the national prayer breakfast speech.
33:11
And I remember thinking at the time, wow, what a great opportunity.
33:13
But it's like, if you know anything about the worldview of Barack Obama and the church
33:17
that he grew up in, that's an invitation that you, you probably say yes to, but you don't
33:23
give a message that the person that invited you liked very much.
33:26
It's kind of like when Matt Chandler went in and burned elevation church to the ground
33:30
on accident, because he went up there and basically said, Hey, guys, you're not David.
33:34
You're not the point of the Bible.
33:36
And Steven Furtick slowly melted while watching Matt Chandler on the stage.
33:41
But this, this has been happening for a long time with him.
33:44
But it's almost like, okay, it happened a step at a time, a step at a time, a step at
33:48
a time, but then all of a sudden all at once.
33:50
So why?
33:51
Why is he devolving this way aside from the fact that the devil's crafting, it doesn't
33:55
matter how smart you purport to be, he's going to get you.
33:59
Yeah.
34:00
I don't know.
34:01
I have no idea about the Trump stuff.
34:02
I do know that he was really close with the Republican governors of, of Georgia.
34:07
So I don't know about all that.
34:08
I haven't thought about it at that level.
34:10
I think it's back to what I said.
34:12
I think he's so driven to reach lost people that this is why a gospel centered movement
34:21
matters a bunch because all of us can have a tendency to take the result of the gospel
34:26
and elevate it to primacy over the gospel and see the gospel as a means to an end instead
34:32
of the gospel being the end that bears fruit.
34:35
So you see it in a bunch of churches that I don't think necessarily meant to, but they
34:39
go down this social justice road and it gets elevated above the gospel and that's a big
34:44
fat danger.
34:46
One of the things I see, what it seems to be, it could be, listen, all right, if we use
34:50
his own words and we choose to trust, okay.
34:53
And we give him the absolute benefit of the doubt again.
34:57
I think there are some people and they think that in order to do evangelism right and reach
35:03
people wherever they are, they begin to see the scriptures as a means to that end instead
35:10
of the scripture being authoritative.
35:13
I also think, I mean, I don't know, man, I'm not trying to play like pop psychology with
35:18
him, but there's a lot of the things that seems that he did just to poke the bear because
35:22
it ain't his daddy's church and you can take that to an extreme and it, that may have been
35:28
where it is.
35:29
I don't, I don't know the why.
35:30
I don't know.
35:31
I just, I pray to God, well, see, I have actual elders that wouldn't let me do this.
35:37
You know, I mean, they, if we begin to head in a direction, they'd be like, stop.
35:42
What are you doing?
35:43
That's something I talk about all the time, Joe, be it's these pastors that are running
35:46
their church like a CEO, where they're also the chairman of the board.
35:50
And they're not a senior pastor that is under the guidance of God, but also under the watchful
35:58
eye of a dutiful elder board in it.
36:01
It's not an elder board made up of their best buddies that won't challenge them.
36:05
You know.
36:06
Yeah.
36:07
Yeah.
36:08
Totally.
36:09
If, if we were friends, I would totally reach out to it.
36:11
If it was some of the people that I have talked about before and doctrinally, theologically,
36:16
they were going on this road.
36:18
Not only would I reach out to him personally and be like, dude, what are you doing?
36:23
I would also highly encourage them to clarify that, you know, statements that they have
36:28
made that kind of stuff.
36:30
Joe, I'm going to ask you again, because I'm tempted to go down a road that's going to
36:35
take a while to end up.
36:36
Are you sure you got like a good amount of time, not like three hours, but I mean, we've
36:41
already went to one very, very hot subject and now we're going to get to another hot
36:44
one.
36:45
That's a little bit more personal unless you want me to take a left turn and then we can
36:48
ask happy questions, but whatever you want to do, man, you shouldn't have told me that
36:52
I asked you for your preference.
36:55
Not whatever.
36:56
It's your show.
36:57
Okay.
36:58
This absolutely works in line with what you're saying and all kidding as a side.
37:01
So for those of you that can't see my face and see that it got real serious, this is
37:04
all kidding aside.
37:05
So you've talked about people that are kind of flirting with these ideologies and going
37:09
in a particular direction.
37:11
And if they were friends of yours, how you would reach out and lovingly rebuke them,
37:16
call them to repentance, whatever you want to call it.
37:19
So one thing that I want to ask you about is these pastors that have been romanced and
37:25
seem to be flirting with critical race theory and the tenets of that and how that does go
37:31
all the way back to critical theory, critical legal studies, the Frankfurt School, Karl Marx,
37:36
Marxism overall communism, blah, blah, blah, that whole thing.
37:39
And so people that have at least flirted with the ideology, everyone from someone like your
37:45
good buddy J.D. Greer, that the stuff he did whenever he was the president of the SBC with
37:50
some of the amendments that they were putting through some of the public statements have
37:55
been weird.
37:56
People like Craig Rochelle, Stephen Furtick, Judah Smith, T.D.
37:59
Jakes, Beth Moore, Carl Lynch, people that posted the, they bowed to BLM and posted the
38:03
black square on Twitter when, you know, St. George Floyd overdose while in police custody
38:08
and have yet to repudiate those things when that same organization comes out and says,
38:13
you know, free Palestine, you know, support Hamas, that kind of nonsense.
38:17
And then they don't come out and repudiate it that that's, that's a struggle.
38:20
But the main big struggle for me is Matt Chandler.
38:24
This is a man that I've listened to since college.
38:27
There is no pastor on this planet, Joby, that has formulated my theology and that I've
38:32
listened to for more hours than Matt Chandler.
38:35
And that continues to this day.
38:36
I listen to a sermon every week.
38:38
If he has a guest pastor, I say, screw you, you're not Matt Chandler.
38:40
Get out of my podcast feed.
38:42
And then I skip until he comes back to the pulpit.
38:44
I have a deep and abiding respect for him.
38:46
His book, the explicit gospel was the first book I added to the Christian section of our
38:50
100 books every modern Christian man should read list.
38:52
So for anyone that thinks I'm about to be needlessly critical of Matt Chandler, I need
38:56
to tell you that I'm a big card carrying member of the Matt Chandler fan club.
39:01
Okay, his stances on racial reconciliation have really drifted over the last several
39:09
years because in January of each year, he does a thing that's called racial reconciliation.
39:14
He also talks about life.
39:15
He talks about abortion, but it seems that he's gone from racial reconciliation and now
39:20
he's bending more towards racial grievance.
39:23
And so I want to actually read a few things to kind of set this up because I want to make
39:27
sure the context is so unbelievably clear.
39:29
So people don't misunderstand me and then they don't misunderstand your response.
39:33
So, you know, give me a little bit of latitude here.
39:36
Back in January, 2021, his racial reconciliation sermon that that year was called ethnic harmony.
39:42
Okay.
39:43
In that sermon, he said one of the most egregious things I've ever heard a pastor say ever.
39:48
And I mean ever.
39:50
So here's the quote.
39:51
There became this now, especially ridiculous notion that I'm Marxist or a socialist.
39:56
And now we've got the boogeyman of critical race theory.
39:59
Now I understand these tactics.
40:01
The enemy has always used them to discredit and malign the truth.
40:07
See if we can create a category and jam somebody into it, we don't have to be uncomfortable.
40:11
If you can create a category and jam somebody into it, then you don't have to listen.
40:16
You don't have to be challenged.
40:17
You don't have to be bothered.
40:19
I'm literally, Joe, be working out of my gym and I hear that quote and I about break
40:23
my leg, you know, dropping, you know, weight off the squat rack.
40:25
And I was like, what, did he just say somebody that's pushing back on his ideologies and
40:31
some of the things that he's saying that, that they're, they're from the enemy.
40:34
You're shaking your head, but stick with me.
40:36
Then also in that same, okay, but stick with me in that same sermon.
40:41
And some of his other sermons, it sounds like his arguments are coming from the lips
40:45
of Derrick Bell, Kimberly Crenshaw, Ibram X, Kendi, Robin DiAngelo.
40:49
It's this racial grievance language that he's using then at MLK 50.
40:55
He's invited to go and speak there.
40:57
You know, he had to stand behind the podium the whole time, which obviously made him very,
41:00
very uncomfortable because he's a traveler.
41:03
But he said this, let me ask you a question, Pastor Matt.
41:06
This is, you know, a conversation he purportedly had with somebody else.
41:10
Let me ask you a question, Pastor Matt.
41:12
If we find an Anglo eight and an African American seven, which one do you want?
41:16
I said, I want the African American seven.
41:19
And he said, what if we find an Anglo eight and an African American six?
41:23
And I said, then give me the Anglo eight, because the African American six will look
41:28
and feel to our people like the kind of tokenism I'm preaching against.
41:33
So this is that double speak where the context of what he's saying is, okay, this is, you
41:37
know, a black person that's in a black neighborhood that wants to minister to black people and
41:41
blah, blah, blah.
41:42
So from a pragmatic side, you can understand what he's saying similar to if you're a pragmatically
41:46
minded person, you understand what Andy Stanley saying, but when it comes to James to, you
41:52
know, in the sin of partiality, that that is such a good thing.
41:57
But Joby, have you had these conversations with Matt, have you had the conversations with
42:01
people like this?
42:02
Because these, these are reprehensible comments.
42:04
Well, hold on, hold on.
42:06
So I think sometimes you're a hammer looking for a nail in a bunch of places.
42:12
Okay.
42:13
So let me just help just a little bit, which is fun.
42:16
God made you that way.
42:17
Love it.
42:18
You really earned the red hair and these kind of comment one.
42:24
Now I have not followed up with Matt on those things and been like, you know, but then maybe
42:27
I will.
42:28
Next time I'm hanging out with him, I think what he's saying is, would you please listen
42:32
to the words that are coming out of my mouth and not immediately discount what I'm saying
42:38
because you were putting me just in a category like it happens to you all the time.
42:43
I bet there are people that are very left leaning and instead of dealing with what you
42:48
are actually saying, they just go, that's a Christian nationalist that I'm not listening
42:53
to him.
42:55
And I think he's like, cause when you do that, then you're not actually dealing with the things
42:59
that he's saying.
43:01
Matt is not a Marxist.
43:03
Matt for sure is trying to shepherd his very white congregation in a very upscale part of
43:10
Dallas that, and listen, man, I'm going to tell you, if I begin to poke at the bearer
43:16
of racism around here, my people lose their ever living mind.
43:19
I mean, real racist come.
43:22
I mean, the amount of emails and texts I get, I can poke at anything else, anything, bro.
43:29
But you start, you start doing anything towards that.
43:34
And again, what a shepherd has to do is start, start where those people are and move them
43:38
in a direction.
43:39
Okay.
43:40
So evaluate what he is saying.
43:43
And sometimes I do think a good shepherd says some things that are a bit provocative
43:48
to get people to think a little bit.
43:50
So let me be careful about this one.
43:53
I've only voted Republican ever, ever, ever, ever.
43:57
I plan unless they change, unless these two parties switch their position on abortion,
44:02
I plan to only vote Republican.
44:05
Okay.
44:06
I'm standing on my pulpit for me to bash the Democrats.
44:12
The large majority of our churches, Republican, I say things about Trump, about Republicans,
44:19
about conservatives, where I think they are misaligned with the scripture being surrendered
44:24
to Jesus, you know, and people were like, they text me, like, I can't believe you Obama
44:30
love and marks this straight up.
44:31
And I'm like, oh, that's hilarious.
44:33
So I get put in these categories that I don't belong in.
44:39
And the other thing I would say is be careful on the, like, the black square thing on Instagram.
44:49
You know, you say it all the time, what do you have to have for evil to prevail, right?
44:53
Malevolent players and idiots, there's a bunch of people just didn't know.
44:56
They just thought they were pursuing racial harmony and did not know all the implications
45:01
of all the things.
45:02
That's grace.
45:03
He said, I didn't do any of that.
45:04
When I was getting pressured to do the black thing, label thing, we just did Bible verses.
45:08
And I told our whole social media team, the only thing you're allowed to put up over these
45:11
next 21 days are Bible verses.
45:13
And if I get in trouble for Bible verses, then, okay, whatever.
45:15
All right.
45:16
So that's one.
45:17
Secondly, on the seven or eight black or white kind of thing, the set of partiality that
45:24
James is talking about is literally giving people better seats at the service and at
45:28
the table based on money, all right.
45:31
There is like, like if you were to say, would you rather have a, this person eight or this
45:35
person seven?
45:36
I'm like, what are you talking about in measurement, like IQ, ability, that kind of thing?
45:41
Because the way you grow up does bring like a diversity would need to be added into the
45:49
algorithm on how we're going to judge who's the best person for his job.
45:54
And the example I would give you would be Jesus.
45:57
Do you think when Jesus chose his 12, he chose all tens?
46:02
Like you don't think it was on purpose that he had a zealot that wanted to kill the Romans
46:09
and a tax collector that had sold out to the Romans?
46:12
I don't think they had the best like test scores on who would be the best disciple.
46:17
I think he's getting like a diversity of opinions and people so that they would best accomplish
46:23
the great commission.
46:24
If I may go, Joby, on that point, if I may, there's a little bit of lag here guys.
46:29
So if it seems like I'm interrupting them, it seems ruder than it actually is.
46:32
But in that moment, what if Jesus had chosen a, a potential disciple with more melanin over
46:40
a potential disciple with less melanin being that that is the main characteristic using
46:45
his own words, understanding the words that are coming out of his mouth.
46:49
That is the defining characteristics of the difference aside from the arbitrary score
46:53
that he gave him, an Anglo eight or a black seven, an Anglo eight or a black six.
46:59
He said those words, he said their score and he said their race.
47:02
He did not say their education.
47:04
He did not say the family they grew up in, the amount of money they have, how great a
47:08
speaker they are.
47:09
That's what he said.
47:10
So judging just by his words alone, of course, Jesus, when I've done this, but in a parallel
47:14
universe, what if Jesus had chosen some because he's like, ah, you know, the disciples are
47:18
kind of whitish looking, but let's get somebody that looks like this that has a darker skin
47:22
complexion.
47:23
That's the problem.
47:26
Um, so I don't know, man, I hear you if, if, if this human construct that we call race
47:38
was that simple, then I'll give that to you, but it's a very, very complex situation.
47:46
So as the leader of this church, I want our staff to be reflective of our community and
47:52
the people that we are reaching.
47:53
Sure.
47:54
And so, and I want the most gifted, talented people that we can find, but people's background
48:02
and the way they grew up and the color that they grew up in this, in the community that
48:07
we live in, it's way more complex than I'm, than what we're talking about.
48:15
Because I think if you would even dig in a little bit, um, I also think it would, I
48:22
would hope that he would talk even more about I'm trying to, I'm trying to represent people
48:27
and lead people well with all kinds of different people, not just different colors, but all
48:33
kinds of different colors for sure.
48:34
Because it's up to God, what color we are, not up to us, but even also like, like the,
48:38
the expression of different cultures in the culture that's represented, like in your city.
48:44
That's all I'm trying to say, you know, um, because he does take a minute to say we're
48:49
not talking about tokenism here.
48:52
So I've heard a complex, bro.
48:54
So I would agree with that.
48:56
I'm, I'm not trying to say that this, this isn't thing because one thing with the level
48:59
of melanin in your skin, there do come cultural components that for me growing up in a oddly
49:05
diverse city in Oklahoma of all places, again, I've talked about my sixth grade class picture.
49:10
There were 20 kids, like eight white kids, four black kids, a couple of Asian kids, couple
49:16
of Latinos, like a couple of Native Americans.
49:19
And I didn't look at them that way.
49:20
They were just my buddies.
49:21
That's Ivan.
49:22
That's Brandon.
49:23
That's Nikki.
49:24
And it wasn't until later when people were like, well, everyone, you know, from those types
49:28
of cultures and from your culture, they act different.
49:30
I was like, well, that's weird because we were all just trying to get through the day
49:33
in sixth grade without peeing ourselves.
49:35
So we didn't get made fun of.
49:36
And so like that, that was the difference for me, I guess the problem is, is so in my city,
49:42
my city is very similar to where Matt Chandler does ministry.
49:45
So it is dominantly white, dominantly Republican, dominantly conservative, high net worth individuals
49:52
or at least people that are faking it, you know, they got the Escalade, the brand new
49:55
Silverado in the big house and the perfectly manicured yard.
49:58
And they might be in mountains of debt for all I know, but at least it looks good.
50:01
And so for somebody to come in and bash my congregation over to the head for not being
50:06
black enough or Latino enough or LGBTQ plus enough, it would be somewhat ridiculous because
50:12
if we are going to reflect where we are doing ministry, that just so happens to be where
50:17
we are doing ministry so that if someone does come into our congregation that doesn't match
50:21
the profile of everybody else, nobody cares.
50:24
They stick out more.
50:26
Yes.
50:27
The problem I have with Matt Chandler's tacked in attacking the subject matter, which is
50:31
a hot button issue, is he's creating and planting the seeds of white guilt in these people.
50:38
That's why he's had to warn people, look, if you're the black family in church today,
50:42
you're going to have 74 people come up to you after this wanting to take you to lunch.
50:46
And I'm so sorry about that.
50:47
So he can almost feel the tension as he's saying it because I think he knows he's he's
50:52
somewhat grasping at straws.
50:54
Does that make sense?
50:56
It does.
50:57
I think I think that would be a good example of the what I was talking about earlier.
51:02
The danger of taking a result of the gospel, which would be unity among diversity, right?
51:10
Mm hmm.
51:11
And take a result of the gospel and elevating it to a place of primacy.
51:16
So look, man, we don't we don't play that game.
51:20
And we our church is growing in diversity like crazy because we've just stayed laser
51:24
focused on the gospel and I am looking for areas where we can reflect all the kinds of
51:31
people that we have in our audience, except I wouldn't put the LGBTQ part in there.
51:34
But all the people that that is not a lifestyle decision, you know, but just you were born
51:40
with a certain color.
51:41
I do ideally want that reflected on our stages and all of that, but not as like I'm trying
51:47
to go get it and make it happen, but that's just who God has brought through our church.
51:51
And because that's who God has brought through our church, those things are being reflected
51:55
in all areas of our church, including like platform leaders and the cyber group leaders
52:01
and all that sort of stuff, you know, so it is those are those are different things.
52:06
So let me ask you this as we put a bow on that subject matter again, we could talk more
52:09
about it, but we do actually have other things to do today.
52:12
So you talked about like the black square thing and kind of taking it easy on people
52:14
because I know a lot of people, they just saw a bunch of people posting the black square
52:18
after George Floyd died and you know, they just thought, oh, I'm supposed to do this.
52:21
And if I don't post a black square, I'm going to give you a tip.
52:24
Okay.
52:25
So instead of all those people you mentioned and you put on your Instagram today, I don't
52:28
know any of those people.
52:29
They don't run in my tribe whatsoever.
52:31
So I ain't hanging out with Furtick and all those people.
52:33
Now, I think a better tactic for you would say, instead of saying you hypocrites that
52:39
don't call out Hamas and stuff, see, like now is your opportunity now that you know what
52:44
that black square, does that make sense?
52:47
Well, let me go ahead and read my caption live.
52:49
Did you read my whole caption, Joby?
52:52
I did, but it's like a where are you now?
52:55
You did this, but that's all like they did.
52:58
What I'm calling these people to do, right?
53:00
Some of these, you know, all these people are prominent people within Christendom, at least
53:04
an American.
53:05
What I'm calling them to do is now that the mask has been taken off and the truth has
53:10
been exposed, I think that they have an obligation to retract what they did and to the explain
53:17
themselves.
53:18
Had that tweet not been sent, had some of those things not been said, you don't need
53:21
to retract every statement.
53:22
I've got 500 plus episodes of my show out.
53:25
I just went back and looked at my notes for episode 10 and I'm like, Oh my God, I'm stupid.
53:30
Like these are not good arguments.
53:31
Yeah.
53:32
Like that was in 2017.
53:33
That was not that long ago.
53:34
That wasn't ages ago.
53:35
But if something like this happens and you have an attachment to an organization that is
53:40
in full-throated support of that, you got to at least be like, Hey guys, I believe in
53:44
the statement, Black Lives Matter, but the organization is obviously a racial grift.
53:48
I got caught up in this.
53:50
Our church donated $10,000 to our local chapter of Black Lives Matter.
53:53
I can't possibly say that I would do that again today.
53:57
I super duper regret it.
53:59
I'm sorry.
54:00
We will do everything we can to make sure racial reconciliation is a focus of our church,
54:04
but we will be more specific and more careful in the future about donating to organizations
54:09
that hate God.
54:10
Is that hard to frickin say?
54:12
Like that was that I just did that off the top of my head.
54:15
You don't even have to say it publicly.
54:16
You can just write it on your notes on your phone and post it.
54:18
And then guess what?
54:19
It's done.
54:20
It's finished, but it's communicating something in their silence, which I hate accusing of
54:24
people because you only communicate when you communicate.
54:26
But in this exact moment, it's like, this is easy, like this is, this is an easy spike.
54:32
I agree with you wholeheartedly.
54:33
I agree with you.
54:34
I agree.
54:35
And I know, I know you, I know you've got to be punchy because it's like, I get it.
54:40
It's actually a Jesus tactic.
54:42
Like I get it.
54:43
And again, this is kind of the difference between a shepherd and a prophet.
54:46
When I post stuff, I'm primarily thinking about the people that either attend my church or,
54:52
or for whatever reason, think of me either as their pastor or a supplement.
54:57
You know what I mean?
54:58
And so I'm trying to move people on Jesus did do what you were talking about.
55:02
He said some inflammatory things like gouge out your eye and cut off your hand.
55:09
And he kind of dropped that truth bomb.
55:11
But he never really did it to the people that he was, he was like discipling over time.
55:15
He was way more like, he kind of slow cook them.
55:18
So I get it.
55:19
I agree wholeheartedly with that.
55:21
And I think what you're doing is just using a tactic that you didn't like now against
55:27
the people that were throwing it, the silences violence thing, like I get it.
55:31
I think that's a legitimate thing for you to say, Oh, wait a minute, I was accused of
55:35
all kinds of stuff because I didn't say things against atrocious activities.
55:39
What I don't hear you saying, because the silences violence that my problem with that
55:45
is I don't ever hear anybody every day talking about the starving children around the world,
55:51
but we're not doing it in a forum or the thousands of children being raped every day.
55:56
But if you, you know, so what typically happens, we call out the people when it offends our
56:01
political sensibilities and say what say you.
56:04
I want to, I would, I'd be way more comfortable if we were, if we were being offended by what
56:10
offended Jesus, which evil Hamas attacking Israel is offensive to the heart of God.
56:17
And if you can't stand against that, I, I don't know.
56:20
And you are right.
56:21
The organization BLM is a demonic evil organization.
56:28
And so to try to protect that, what do you, I don't know how you could even.
56:34
In any conscience and be able to do that.
56:37
So well, and I do, I do want to be fair because tactics do matter and context does matter.
56:43
So I saw the headline Rashida to leave who is in basically the Hamas caucus of the, the
56:48
United States House of Representatives.
56:50
She, you know, the headline was refuses to denounce the, the killing of children and
56:55
the raping of grandmothers.
56:56
That was basically the, the headline.
56:58
But when you watch the video, it is this troll that's chasing her down the hallway saying,
57:04
do you say this and do you blah, blah, blah.
57:07
And this is the only thing that I will ever say in my entire life that will be in defense
57:12
and Rashida to leave unless she becomes a believer in Christ.
57:14
If I were in her shoes, I wouldn't have said a damn word either because I don't know who
57:18
this person is.
57:19
I don't know the context of what they said.
57:21
The problem for her is she does actually believe the things that she was being accused
57:25
about, but again, you have to give the benefit of the doubt in those situations.
57:28
So Joby speaking of her, she's got multiple flags outside of her office.
57:33
Yeah.
57:34
And how about this?
57:35
She has a Palestinian flag and an LGBTQ flag in that cute who wants to tell her that this
57:42
flag wants to kill this flag.
57:44
Yeah.
57:45
You know what I'm saying?
57:47
I wonder if she knows that the LGBTQ flag has literally never been flown in the country,
57:54
judo country of Palestine.
57:56
I guess unless the chosen chooses to shoot an episode or two there, then I guess they'll
57:59
sneak it in on one of the cameras.
58:01
But Joby, Joby, we've made it all the way here.
58:04
This has been rather uncomfortable for some people.
58:05
I can see you looking off at your staff.
58:07
They're definitely uncomfortable with a lot of these questions, which makes me okay.
58:11
So we're going to end with a softer question, okay?
58:15
But I believe in all the sign all the same.
58:18
And sorry again, these are all my questions today next week or the next time we do this,
58:21
we'll only do questions from you guys.
58:24
Will my dog be with me in heaven?
58:26
Because Joby, before you answer, my best friend in the entire world has been here at
58:31
my feet.
58:32
He doesn't care about my passion.
58:33
He doesn't care about your answers.
58:35
My giant Schnauzer, Roman the giant is sitting here at my feet.
58:38
He is my best friend.
58:39
He's been here for nine years.
58:40
He won't be here very much longer.
58:42
I hate to say that when I get to heaven someday, whether the Calvinists were right or the Armenians
58:47
or somebody else and I make it there, right?
58:50
Will Roman be there to jump in my lap and give me a big kiss?
58:53
All right, I got good news and bad news.
58:56
Good news is apparently there are animals here because lions are laying down with lambs.
59:00
That's neat.
59:01
Okay.
59:02
But your dog ain't going to be there and you're not even going to care.
59:06
Joby, you're not even going to care.
59:08
I already care.
59:09
I'm telling you, you're not even going to care.
59:13
He is going to be to you like your binky was is to you today.
59:18
When you were eight months old, you could not imagine life without it.
59:22
Now you have no idea where it is and don't even care.
59:26
The supremacy of Christ in your life is going to so far exceed all of your expectations
59:33
and fulfill all of your greatest desires and the things that no, I'm going to tell you
59:40
right now, not that Christ isn't good, but you hurt my feelings just then.
59:43
All right.
59:44
I was really needing you to just say, yes, he'll be there.
59:47
All the dogs you had that you didn't like.
59:49
They're definitely not there.
59:50
You couldn't just go with me.
59:51
You couldn't just come with me just a little bit.
59:54
So how about this to wrap this thing up?
59:56
I'm not that kind of preacher that says what people want to hear just to make them feel
1:00:00
better.
1:00:01
How about that?
1:00:02
All right.
1:00:03
That wraps up another episode on Ask a Pastor Joby.
1:00:05
We'll see you next time.
1:00:07
Thanks, man.
1:00:08
Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode.
1:00:09
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I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
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