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[Music]
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This is Undaunted Life of Man's Podcast.
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I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it.
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Joby Martin, welcome back to the show. I love the hat, man.
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Are y'all selling those? You should have a merch store.
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Uh, yeah. You can get them. We have like a little, yeah,
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we got like a little bookstore with a few resources.
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I think these are in here.
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I don't know, man. I've got people sending me hats now
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for all the things like deepening this and.
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And even off air before this, you were accosting me
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because the original trucker hat that we made,
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where we only made like 50 of them, I sent you one,
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and you didn't even have the decency to keep track of it.
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Where is it, Joby? Where did you put it?
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I don't know, but I love it. I love the green one.
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I've got two or three green ones.
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I've got the blue one with the little stripe,
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the little whatever band, and I got a black one like that.
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But I also like that black one. I don't know where it went.
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I got to find it, but I need you to find your own sentence to me.
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Yeah, we'll figure it out. We'll figure it out.
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But let's go ahead and get into our questions for today.
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So as per usual, first one is for me.
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And guys, if you want your question to be entered
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into the question bank, you've got to be a monthly donor.
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You got to be one of my internal guys here,
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like one of my forging tablers, or you got to be me.
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So first question is from me.
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I was chewing on this the other day because a lot of times,
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I think in kind of like apologetics-type argumentation,
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like, okay, if someone were to say this to me,
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what would I say back to him type of a situation?
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And so what is the fundamental difference between Moses
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and the stone tablets that he brought down off him outside nigh,
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and Joseph Smith and the golden tablets, right?
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That no one's ever seen except for Joseph Smith.
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But if you just look at it, you know, in the most basic form,
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individual guys went away from humanity,
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and supposedly had an encounter with God,
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and then came down with all these rules.
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And you couldn't challenge rules, why?
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Because that special guy talked to God.
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Do we know they talked God?
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We don't know for sure, because we weren't there.
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We couldn't put it in a, you know, in a beaker
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and heat it up with a Bunsen burner
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and like figure it out scientifically.
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But fundamentally, what is the difference between those two things?
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And you can't just say because the Bible is true.
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Moses actually talked to God, would be the fundamental difference.
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Okay?
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So now the way you know that is because everything that Moses said and did,
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then also aligned with everything else that God said and did,
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pre and then post.
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And, you know, Moses does have a couple things going for him,
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like he, God used him to send 10 plagues through Egypt
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and God parted the Red Sea and he walked across on dry ground.
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And so he's got, you know, his resume for trustworthiness.
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You, when you receive the 10 commandments from Moses,
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it's coming from the guy that you also followed through the Red Sea on dry ground.
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That's a little bit different than Joseph Smith finding himself in a cave
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and then coming out with the revelation that he can marry a bunch of women.
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One of them seems to be quite self-serving
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and one seems to be quite God-serving.
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Well, Joby, I've been reliably informed that because Mormons are polite,
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there's probably something to Joseph Smith and the Golden Tablets.
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Have I been misinformed?
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Well, they better be polite because it's a workspace religion
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and bad people go to hell.
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So you better be really nice and good.
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Yeah.
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Normally tell people that, you know, they throw out things like, hey,
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you know, Mormons are real nice and some of the worst people.
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I know we're Christians and all that.
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And it's like, I forget who said it first,
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but, you know, I'm giving a derivative of it.
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But if you go into a guitar center and hear someone playing sweet child of mine poorly,
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you don't blame slash for that, right?
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You don't blame someone who plays Beethoven poorly on Beethoven.
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So you go back to the source material, the source text,
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and then you say, is this person acting out in a way that is, you know,
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continual or in line with what we're seeing here?
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We don't exactly see that.
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So I wasn't planning on asking about this because again,
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this is coming out, you know, beginning in May, those types of things.
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But I did recently do another podcast about Andy Stanley.
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And so the thing with Andy Stanley, as I've explained before,
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but we get new listeners every week used to be a huge Andy Stanley guy,
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like him and Matt Chandler were going back and forth for who my favorite pastor to listen to was,
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but I got so much practical advice from him and, you know, read his books
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and even had his books on my book list at one point.
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But it seems like the moment he decided to quote unquote,
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unhitch from the Old Testament that either we got to know who the real Andy Stanley was,
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you know, as the downstream consequences of that, or that was kind of the first
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brick to fall out of the temple, if you will, as we made his way down.
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And then we see the training that they have internally,
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where they are affirming a lie for for kids that see themselves of the opposite gender.
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It goes against what we see with creation and creation order and all those different things.
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And what it does, Joby, which is concerning, is they people will see a story like that.
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And then they will look out on the horizon and look at every large church.
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And now they're wondering, wait a minute, what exactly are they teaching down there,
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Church of 11, 22, what exactly are they teaching down there at?
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Well, you know, Chandler, you know, rolled off his autonomous churches to be autonomous,
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but just take a big ministry, maybe a multi-site ministry,
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what exactly is going on behind the scenes?
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And it, you know, it kind of takes our trust away from the local church,
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writ large, the ecclesia model, those types of things,
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because we don't know exactly what the leaders believe,
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because we have to have a leaked internal video made public for anyone to kind of
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have a peek behind the curtain.
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So there's not a question in there, Joby, but I would just love your feedback on it.
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Yeah, I listened to that episode this morning while I was getting ready to come to work.
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And yeah, it is shocking, you know, that they have an LGBTQ training video.
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And, you know, I don't think my instincts are typically as harsh as yours are.
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So as I'm trying to steelman the argument for them,
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here's what I think the fundamental problem is.
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And it probably happened at the unhinged thing.
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And I, like you, have been in the past, a huge Andy Stanley fan and learned from him
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and his teaching style.
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And for what, 20 or 30 years, he would just, it's, he taught the Bible.
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I mean, some weeks were way more into it than others, but, and then it's almost like
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they're, it's like he put the mission, what he would say, well, I'm not trying to put
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words in his mouth.
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So my interpretation of what they're doing, it's like they're trying to put the mission of God
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at odds with and ahead of the word of God, which I think would be a fundamental mistake.
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So yes, we should love lost people and try to reach lost people.
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But when he's his unhinged stuff and then all of the now the trans stuff and even the homosexuality
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stuff, it's like the, to reach those people, they see the word of God as a hindrance instead of a
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help, which I think is the fundamental problem with the video that was exposed is let's just assume,
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let's don't assume negative motives for that guy that was talking on the video.
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So let's assume he actually does want to help people and help families that have kids that
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identify as trans. Well, his fundamental problem is he thinks that teaching them the word of God
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is the least helpful thing and accepting their version of truth is the most helpful.
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And so they've done this switcheroo. So here at 11.2, the parts that I would agree with would be like,
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yes, well, at 11.2, we are a movement for all people. So even in the first thing,
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if you're a five year old saying that I'm confused in my body, you got confusing parents, period in
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dot, okay, because you don't even know what sex and sexuality and gender are at five year old.
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That's like saying you have a vegetarian dog. No, you don't. You've got a psycho owner is what
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you've got. But anyway, but if that family shows up here, we do want them to feel loved and accepted
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and all the things, okay, just like every other center that shows up here. But I think it's the
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least loving thing to affirm sin and affirm something in your life that is not in alignment with what
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the word of God says to be true. Andy Stanley did this sermon a long time ago at his dad's
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church, Charles Stanley's church, a long time ago, like, like filled in for a weekend. This this is
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before North Point started. And Andy Stanley did this whole thing about how what the Bible says
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about sex and sexuality and family and that marriage was between a man and a woman and
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whatever, all that stuff. Okay. And then he would use this illustration. He would say,
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there's what is and there's what ought to be. And what the Bible calls us to do is to adjust
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the what is to what God's word says ought to be. But what we have done in our culture is the other.
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We have adjusted what ought to be to do what is. And I thought, wow, that was brilliant. I was
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probably 30 years ago or something. And it seems like that's what they're doing now. And I think
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they think they're doing that to help people and whatever their mission statement is, like,
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lead people to Jesus. But the moment you think that the word of God hinders you from people coming
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to Christ, I don't like something's loose in there. You're you're so far off. Now, I'm not as far I
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wouldn't question the salvation and that kind of stuff. I just think they've gotten so focused
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for being a church for unchurch people that they've forgotten to be a church for the Lord
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first and foremost. And to be a church for the Lord first and foremost, you have to be under the
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authority of the word of God first and foremost. And I also think this is just me playing pop
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psychologist. I think he may have some scars from some maybe ultra conservative, even fundamentalist
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in the bad kind of way church experiences where they said certain people weren't welcome at their
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church, not based just based on like whatever skin color or the way they dressed or something
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like that. And but now his pain on them has swung way over here where they are apparently affirming
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not just sin, but Romans says this is even worse than just regular sin. This is right.
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This is out of line with God's creative order kind of sin. And I don't know, man, it's just
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what a mistake. What a mistake. Well, they've put themselves in the position of
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whether they explicitly do it or implicitly do it saying, Hey, we're nicer than God is. We're
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more moral than God is. Hey, God, you have your ideas on this. But hey, we went to some church
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growth conferences. And we kind of started this whole, you know, big multi site church ministry
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thing like their derivatives of Bill Hybels and you know, hey, we we got this God, don't you worry.
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We're going to use our version of leading people to salvation because we just don't believe the
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Holy Spirit's going to do it. And so we just need to kind of sweeten it up a little bit. And like
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for me, that that sermon back like a year or two ago, you said, Kyle, go find this sermon. You can't
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find it. And it reminds me that again, I know you're a big fan and a lot of people on the show
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are big fans of Craig Rochelle. I'm telling people to be very, very careful because I know for a fact
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that he had Bobby Gruenwald, the guy who created the U version Bible app and that team scrub the
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internet of all of his old mentions of LGBTQ stuff saying that it was sinful and that we shouldn't
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operate in that way from the internet, almost like they men in black took it out from the
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men, memory banks of the world because there are ways to kind of scrub the internet because
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no one's keeping a copy of a 30 year old sermon because they think Andy Stanley's going to go full
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heretic, you know, three decades from now. So it just just doesn't exist. It just fart in the wind
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disappears. And so that's part of the problem is I don't think you can find that audio. I don't
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think the church itself that he gave it at at Charles Stanley's church even has something like that.
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But for me with with guys and we'll move off at any Stanley because we got some really good
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questions for today is what else do you need to see? Because I get it. I was one of the people
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defending him whenever he said the unhitched the Old Testament thing because I think I got his point
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and I was coming at it from a pragmatic point of view and I'm like, Oh, no, okay. Yeah, you know,
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the quote doesn't look good. But if you listen to the whole sermon, you see, it actually does this.
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The problem is his actions, right? So it's like when someone says, I love my spouse,
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but they beat them. They belittle them. They just trash them all the time. It's like,
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weird, your words are not really connecting with your actions. Or it's one of those people that
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says something out loud. They're trying to tell you what they believe and you're like,
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nah, not surely not. You don't believe that. But no, all their actions are undergirding
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that exact thing that they said, which sounded crazy. It's like we should have taken you out
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your word from the beginning. So I'll give you the last word on this before you move on.
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Um, so I definitely appreciate the heart of trying to lead gay and trans people to Jesus.
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Amen. That's the true heart. So some people, though, can be so right and judgmental,
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and they're right about everything they say technically and theologically,
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but we've been like, when's the last time you led a gay or transgender person to Christ? Okay.
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So at 1122, um, if you want to know what you think, just listen to our sermons. I mean,
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or look on our website. We have, we have, you know, we just say what we believe. And what we believe
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is that the truth of the word of God with the power of the Holy Spirit is going to convict people
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of sin and they must repent. And meanwhile, we want to love them to that place, but to call sin,
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okay, is not loving at all. And we have lots of folks that struggle in all kinds of sexual
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ways around here have gotten saved and walked out of those lifestyles, including people that would
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have said they were transgender. And we did not lower the bar. Like there are some people around
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here and they're not even good at it. I'm like, dude, you just look like a dude in a dress, man,
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at least be good at it. But no, you can't go to the women's room and know you can't be a greeter
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and know, because we're not trying to create confusion around here and know you can't work in
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our kids or student ministry, but you're welcome to come here. And my word for you is repent and
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come to Christ. And he should be Lord of your entire life, including the clothes that you wear
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and how you identify, you identify first and foremost as a blood ball saint of God.
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And that's the message for everybody. And but we don't change that for one particular group of
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people. Hey guys, real quick. So there you are. You're about to make some delicious meat,
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and you open up your cabinet and you freeze, you freeze because you look and you see you have like
14:59
three or four dozen different seasonings. But this seasoning is just for your wild game. And
15:04
this seasonings really good on pork, but not really good on chicken. And you just kind of
15:08
lose your mind and eventually just reach up there and grab a random one. So here's the thing, guys,
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I want you to stop getting jammed up by having too many options in the seasoning department.
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It's time for you to have a go to seasoning for everything. And that's why I want to
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reintroduce you to my friends over at G's seasoning. So this is a reintroduction because
15:26
back in the day, I think this was over the winter. I told you guys about G seasoning. I was at my
15:30
buddy, Dale Brisbane's house. We're about to shoot a podcast and all that. But he had made me some
15:34
stakes and I took one bite of this steak. And I was like, bro, what in the world was this seasoned
15:39
with? He gave me a bottle of G seasoning. He told me a little bit about the story about it being
15:43
a small family owned operation in Texas and how they used to back in the 80s, just hand out bags
15:48
of the seasoning out of the back of a store and things like that. But that they had started bottling
15:52
it and started selling it. And then I told you guys wouldn't it be so cool if for the Christmas
15:57
season, if you guys bought some G seasoning and you know what you guys did? Y'all went out and bought
16:01
it into those of you that have bought it. It has been an amazing thing for you. All of you have
16:05
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16:10
is great on beef, pork, wild game, chicken, fish, eggs, veggies, and guys, if you want a big boy hack,
16:16
throw some Gs on some popcorn. You can thank me later. So guys, stop getting a bunch of different
16:20
seasonings for all of your different meat dishes. Support a small town American family business by
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going to Gsseasoning.com. That is Gsseasoning.com. Throw some Gs on that. Okay, again, that is Gsseasoning.com.
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That's Golf Sierra Seasoning.com order today. All right, very good. Let's move on to the
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forging table that Joby loved, which is apparently the nickname that he's given himself. And that's
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Ryan Horn, who has given himself several nicknames over his time on this planet. So that tells you a
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little bit about that guy. But here's a good question from the Horn. What are your thoughts
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on churches that join interfaith or interfaith alliances? Doesn't this seem counterproductive to
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the Great Commission? So specifically, it's not an interfaith thing. Like, hey, we're all
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joining together against violence against children, but an interfaith alliance.
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Yeah, I mean, if it was for a, well, one, if it was a strategic infiltration to lead lost people
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to Jesus, go for it. If you're going to share the gospel with whatever the people that don't
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have faith in Jesus, go for it. And if it is to accomplish something that would make God happy,
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like we partner with people in Jacksonville that don't necessarily believe in Jesus,
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but we all partner to save babies from being murdered in their mother's womb. But we disagree
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over the God with the gospel is we do that. But I would not be a fan of these interfaith alliances
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just for that sake. Now, I have spoken at some interfaith prayer breakfasts.
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And I just share the gospel with a salvation invitation.
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I literally, I mean, I'm looking at the rabbis and the, I don't know what you call all the people,
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you know, and I shared John 14, six Jesus, the way the truth in life, no one comes to father,
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except through him. That's what my prayer is. That's my message. I also alert the people that
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invite me to be a part of it. That's what I'm going to do. Right. And I'm going to share the gospel
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with lost people. And there's a bunch of professional lost people around me that run other religions.
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And so, so if it's for that purpose, but if it's for the purpose of just looking, John 17,
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when Jesus prays for unity, he does not pray for unity with the world. He prays for unity
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within the body of Christ. So we are not supposed to be unified with the lost world. We're supposed
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to be unified within the body of Christ. So if those other faiths aren't in the body of Christ,
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then your job is evangelism, not fellowship. Yeah, I don't want to use the pastor's name,
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because I don't think I have the exact, um, the exact details correct, but I believe it's correct,
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but I'll leave his name out just in case I needlessly slander, but he was invited to come to Congress
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to do a prayer, like in the halls of Congress. And apparently his approved because you have to
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write out your prayer. So you see, you have your approved prayer. And then he kind of went off
19:15
script a little bit once he got into the chamber. And so if you tell someone, this is what I'm
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going to say, and then you say something else because the spirit led you, it's like, okay,
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that's, that's a little bit dishonest. Like I don't know that you should necessarily do that.
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But I've been in situations for Joby where someone was like, yeah, hey, this isn't exactly a faith
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field, you know, environment and all that. So like, if you kind of tone down to this or that,
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and I tell people right from the beginning, I'm like, now is your opportunity to disinvite me,
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because once I'm in the room, it's too late. Um, and so it's like, I'm going to say what I'm
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going to say. And then there's also the thing, when people are mad after, like after a speech that
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I've given or after a podcast interview, I'm like, did you know who you invited? Like, did you,
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did you just forget? Did you think I was going to be completely different from the hundreds of,
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if not thousands of hours of content that I put out there on the airwaves? Because that sounds
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like a you problem. It's like, I'm unapologetic in my approach. And I don't try to be needlessly
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divisive or offensive. But I am trying to be incendiary. And if you're going to be incendiary,
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that means you kind of light people, you light people up here and there. And so that's kind of
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one of those things. If you are invited to something like that, and you're told to dampen down the
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gospel, that's a pretty good indication that you should push back. And if they continue pushing back,
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but you probably shouldn't do it. All right, go ahead. Yeah. I mean, I am, I am, you do need to be
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aware of who your audience is. You know, when, when Paul preaches in tomorrow's hill, then he had a
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different kind of tone. He's always pointing to Jesus. But yeah, and then that the area area,
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I guess he had a much different approach. Right. So I'm, I mean, you know, I do try to pay attention
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to where I am, depending on the audience I'm talking to. But I'm, but when people invite me,
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especially to a prayer thing, I will let them know I pray in the name of Jesus. So if you're not
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good with that, I'm not your guy. All right. Very good. Let's go to Ben, who's one of our monthly
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donors. Thank you, Ben. Good question. A longer question. So here we go. At the end of the episode,
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I can't remember which one he's talking about. You guys were talking about Jobe inviting the
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stripper to church and how she received ridicule after showing up like it was a date with a john.
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Well, I don't support behaving rudely to new believers or non believers who do things like that.
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You and others I listened to repeatedly and correctly talk about modesty in church. Now,
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some of the girls, especially in low church evangelical situations show up to church and clothes that
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will most likely most definitely cause brothers to stumble in the one building where you think
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that they'd be free of that temptation. On the other hand, one would think that most of the early
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church did not have quote unquote dress clothes. And thus we're not able to dress in their quote
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unquote Sunday best, although that clothing was probably modest. While come as you are as valid,
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where do you draw the line when it comes to immodest or inappropriate address by either men
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or women? Great distinction there. Should there be some minimum standards in terms of how believers
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are to appear in dress? And is that a good thing? Now, Joe, before you answer that, I love that he
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talked about men and women because there are men who are in really good shape. I've talked about
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this before. I don't want to be a stumbling block for a lady, even though I'm fully aware that women
22:13
are not sexually aroused in the same way visually, that men are. But for these women that come to
22:20
church in these plunging neckline shirts and with their butt cheeks hanging out of their shorts and
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things like that. And I agree, you would think you could go to church and be out of the minefield
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that is most of the world. And I mean, you live on a beach city. And so the temptation has to be
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extreme to not bounce your eyes. But where do we draw the lines about modesty in church?
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The key distinction is the girl that I took to church was not a believer.
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That's key. So I don't know how we can handle it. We don't hold non-believers to standards of the
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scripture. So that's the key. So the question said for believers, of course, there should be
23:00
older women training up younger women, see Titus too, in your church. And hopefully they've got it.
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You've got the kind of discipleship environments and the kind of the right kind of environments.
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Now it is sociologically driven, because what's appropriate in Kenya and what's appropriate in
23:14
Oklahoma may not be the same thing. One of my favorite stories about this dude is a Southern
23:19
Baptist church planted in the church in Kenya, Africa. And they go show up, all the women are
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topless. So they give them all t-shirts. Have you heard this? They come back like a year later
23:27
and they cut boob holes out of it so they could feed their kids, you know what I mean? So it is,
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you know, modesty is kind of a constructed thing about what's modest because what's okay, like
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on stage of the church and on the beach are not the same things. All that being said is
23:40
I would hope your first thought would be for the sake of the or the person, not for the sake of
23:47
you. So if you see somebody immodestly dressed at church, you should pray for that person
23:52
that she would know that she is so valuable that she would learn to treat herself as a valuable
23:57
and not be offended by it, but have compassion for the person. You are right. These days, I probably
24:04
have as much, there's probably more dudes trying to express their freedom by wearing
24:09
inappropriate clothing like cuss words on shirts and stuff. But what are you doing? If you're a
24:14
believer, you're not going to do that here. And so the key distinction though is between believers
24:19
and unbelievers. That's the key distinction. And I have a 15 year old daughter. So we constantly
24:24
have this conversation. But I try to root it just in first grade, the in six, do you not know that
24:32
that you were bought at a price? Therefore, honor God with your body. Like you're so valuable. And
24:37
you don't want to treat something that is sacred and valuable as common. And sometimes the way
24:42
people dress will do that. When I think the ultimate point. So guys, if you haven't listened to the
24:46
sermon, yeah, you should be listening to Joby sermons, but it's a sermon from early April called
24:50
standout Christians, Titus week two, standout Christians, Titus week two, early April 2025.
24:57
And on that, you kind of go through, okay, older men, older women, younger men, younger women. Here's
25:02
what you're supposed to do. Okay. And the biggest thing is for older women to go up to the younger
25:08
women. And if they're dressing like hoochie mamas, say, Hey, sister, that's not how we dress. There
25:13
was a great example of that at whenever I was going to life church at the time. One of the one
25:18
of the staff pastors wives, one of the gals, because you know, yeah, at all these churches,
25:22
there's like 17 people that have microphones. So only half of them are turned on. They're not
25:26
singing a 17 part harmony. Where are all these people? Why are they on the stage? Get them off the stage.
25:29
But there was a gal up there, whose mic wasn't turned on. And she was very attractive. And she
25:34
was wearing a mini skirt on a platform on stage. And guess what? If you were on the front row,
25:40
you got an additional show than the one that you thought you were signing up for. And after service,
25:45
she wasn't accosted by one of the pastors. She wasn't, which by the way, worship leader,
25:51
pay attention to what you're allowing to be on the stage. Someone's got someone's got to have
25:54
some responsibility here. But one of the church members, one of the church staff pastors wives
26:00
took this young gal aside and very lovingly said, you're very beautiful. The Lord gave you
26:06
this beautiful body and you know, to worship the Lord with and to do all these different things.
26:12
The problem is you were just on stage for 20 minutes and people can understand what you're
26:16
working with a little bit more than what you maybe have thought. Yes, the skirt is cute. No, you can't
26:21
wear that here, sister, and you probably shouldn't wear it anywhere. I think I thought if there's a
26:25
guy on Josh Howard's and staff, I forget the pastor's name, but he was at a women's conference, which
26:30
we need more men speaking at women's conferences. Can I get a name in? But he basically said, look,
26:34
if if you post a picture on Instagram that you would not text directly to your pastor,
26:39
you probably shouldn't post that picture because there are no, there are no caveats in the scripture
26:44
for, you know, have modesty unless you're near a boat or unless you're, you know, on the beach.
26:49
And again, think about it that way. Church 11, 22ers, people, your random churches, ladies,
26:54
if you would not send that picture directly to your pastor's phone, you should not be posting it.
26:59
And you should maybe think twice about what you're wearing when that picture was taken
27:03
even to begin with. So that's all good stuff there. So very, very good point on older ladies
27:08
helping the younger ladies out. So next question is from me. So I like to ask you questions about
27:13
heaven because there's no way to know and I just want to like put you to an answer so that we can
27:16
figure it out later. Will we have free will and heaven? Like, will we be, you know, ourselves up
27:23
there getting to choose pick and choose what we want to do? Like what are going to be the options
27:28
or are we just going to be operating precisely how God wants us like a good Calvinist automaton?
27:33
You know what I mean? What are we going to be doing up there?
27:36
Yeah, a good Calvinist wouldn't say you're whatever automaton at all. They would say but we do have
27:41
agency over the things that we do. And again, just a reminder, heaven is really like a waiting room
27:46
for what will be eternal, which will be new heaven and a new earth. And so it seems to be in the book
27:53
of Revelation that there will still be things like work and community. And yes, we will be us
27:58
and we will be recognizable. If we weren't recognizable, then how would you know every
28:02
tribe tongue and nation is there, right? Because we're not all like some mono being or whatever.
28:07
So I think it'll be whatever it'll be probably more similar to what we experience right now than
28:13
we think of in the kind of angelic pictures or whatever that there will be work and play
28:20
and community. It will just all be without the effects of sin and all of that focused on the
28:25
glory of God. But yes, we will have agency to do things that continue to bring God glory there.
28:32
But somehow it will be without the corruption of sin. And we'll have the same agency like
28:37
when we were playing with our dogs who will be up there with us in heaven, right? So they're just
28:41
going to they're going to be there with us and we will know them as we do them here. Right? This is
28:44
what I hear you saying. You hope so. No, I mean, but it's correct. Right. I'm spot on is what you're
28:49
saying. He said I'm spot on you. He shook his head. Yes. To those just listening to this. All right.
28:53
We got a question now from the largest of all forging table or status Jake Winkler.
28:58
Why would God tell Moses to build him a room like the Holy of Holies where they can encounter God
29:03
when he is omnipresent? Yeah, because there's a there's a difference between the manifest presence
29:09
of God and the omnipresence of God. And there there's also progressive revelation of who God is
29:16
through the scriptures, right? So part of what eventually we're going to understand is that God
29:22
is father, son and Holy spirit. But what we're primarily thinking of in particularly in the
29:29
Old Testament, we're thinking about God the father. And so he has even though he doesn't have a form
29:35
or a body. See John chapter four, he is going to reside in a place and sit on a throne like a king
29:42
slash dad. And this is the beginning that God is a God of relationships because we were we were
29:49
created out of his image and God in and of himself is a perfect relationship with himself. God the
29:53
father son and Holy spirit. And so also God is set apart. And and a part of the Holy of Holies is
30:01
just the set apart of set apart places because it is designated for God. So something has to be done
30:07
about sin before you are to enter into the presence of God. And so that's also a big part of like
30:14
the setup so that the people of God can understand that sacrifice has to be made to do something about
30:21
this sin problem so that we can be in this relationship with God that that we desire and that he desires
30:28
for us. All right, very good. Let's go to the next question here. This is from Gus who's a
30:32
monthly donor Gus. Thank you so much for hopping on board to help us equipment to push back darkness.
30:37
Very interesting question. What are your views on Masonic lodges or Freemasons?
30:42
Can you be a Christian and be a Freemason? Now I have to go all the way back to like my sophomore
30:47
year of college where I had to give a persuasive presentation. And I decided this is probably this
30:52
is like pre undaunted right? So I was even aggressive and stepping in it back back then. But I basically
30:57
said that Freemasons were satanic, right? And I just kind of went back to the origins of Freemasonry.
31:03
And there was a Freemason in the room who actually really liked the presentation because he's like,
31:06
yeah, all this is fact check true. But he was a nonbeliever. He's like, I just don't believe in,
31:10
you know, Satan and demons and angels. And I just don't believe in all that. And so but I have heard
31:14
a lot of concerns about about that group because of especially how they started. But then Joby,
31:20
they're flat out our Masonic lodges and Freemasons and groups like that that all those guys are doing
31:26
are stuff for their community. They're they're cleaning up neighborhoods or taking care of
31:30
widows and orphans. They're just doing good stuff. And they're not drinking goats blood and doing
31:35
these these random things like, you know, the movie skulls or whatever. So what are your thoughts on
31:40
Freemasonry and Masonic lodges all that? I think I'm right kind of with the second half of what you
31:45
just said. So in and of itself, yeah, it's bad. I would stay away from it. It's if you look at the
31:50
roots of it. Yeah, man, you're pledging your allegiance to somebody not named Jesus. My dad's in these
31:55
things. But I mean, well, he was 50 years ago, you know, I think there's a bunch of really good dudes
32:01
just in their community. It's basically the grown person version of a fraternity. And they got into
32:07
some stuff and they're not probably not taking all the ritual thing or the type the names of the
32:12
leaders very seriously. All of that. Okay, so I'm not bashing anybody that's in that group. And you're
32:19
like, what are you talking about? We just raised money. You know, like the Shriners for the kids.
32:23
Okay, neat. If you so yes, you could be a Freemason that's in the group and then be a believer because
32:30
you just didn't know what you didn't know. But I would highly encourage believers to do a deep dive
32:36
on what that is. And I would take I would take you back to when the original, like in the early
32:42
church, when people got baptized, they were asked two questions. Who is Jesus to you? Is he your
32:47
Lord and Savior? Yes. And the other question is, do you renounce your flesh, this world, and any sort
32:52
of connection to demonic or darkness that you have ever had in your life? And so that's what
32:59
repentance is. It's not just turning to Christ. It's turning away from this world. So I would not
33:05
want to align myself with anything that invites any demonic or darkness thing into me. And so again,
33:13
I think the Freemasons are a bunch of great guys. And most of them don't even know or took very
33:18
seriously any of that kind of stuff that they were involved in. And then there's probably some,
33:23
like Satan worshipers in there too. They love it and take it very, very seriously. You know,
33:26
there's probably a big spectrum. But I think it's right. I think in its roots, not good.
33:32
When you do go ahead a bunch of kind of guys are unknowingly in something that they don't
33:38
know about the roots of it. But that's not an excuse to do nothing. I mean, I, you know, I would,
33:43
I would distance myself. Yeah, I think as well, if you're going to be doing the research,
33:48
don't do what like some doofus is will do. Is that the plural of doofus? Doofy. Don't be like
33:54
some of those doofy that, you know, we'll go to some sort of like, I did Dan Brown. I think he
33:59
wrote a book where there's Freemasons or whatever. It was the one that came out after the Da Vinci
34:02
Code. And so like people will go to the Da Vinci Code and they're like, Oh my gosh, and they kind
34:06
of build their theology off of something that's got some truth and some not in there. And it's like,
34:10
okay, guys, don't read, you know, Jack Carr's new novel and say, okay, this is exactly how Vietnam
34:15
went. Okay, so like, can we all agree? Like, if you're going to do research, go to kind of some of the
34:19
natural source material. But last question of the day is from me, and I got to be honest with you,
34:23
I've been excited about this one for like a month. Like after, because I again, I'll find stuff or
34:28
I'll hear stuff on other shows and I'll kind of change it around because it's kind of tradition
34:32
now that the last question has to be for me, it has to be kind of ridiculous or just a really
34:36
interesting thought experiment. So are you ready? Are you ready, John? I'm never ready for your
34:40
questions, but go ahead. Let's go. Don't worry. We don't have to club baby Hitler on this one.
34:44
All right. So you are 51 years old, correct? Correct. Okay. Have you ever experienced a dream
34:50
that it was so visceral and real in the moment that when you woke up and you were back in your
34:55
normal world, you were a little bit surprised, like you were that far into the dream. Have you
34:58
experienced that before? For sure. Okay. I'm definitely I'm leading you down the primrose path here. Let's
35:03
go. Okay. If you woke up tomorrow, Joby Martin, and you discovered that the last 30 years of your life
35:12
was all a dream. All of this felt real, but it wasn't real and you wake up and you're 21 years old.
35:20
Here's the question. What would be the first thing that you would do? But before you answer,
35:25
as you think about it, again, guys, to set the scene, Joby is 21. There's no church of 11 22.
35:32
There's no living in Jacksonville. There's no married to Gretchen. There's no JP. You're eldest.
35:37
There's no rake and compress your lovely youngest. There is none of that. I don't even know if you've
35:41
graduated from your first college yet. You haven't even gone off to your woke seminary yet, right?
35:46
You were 21 years old. Okay. You haven't even started really bodybuilding yet. You haven't
35:50
even gotten on all the steroids. What is the first thing that you're going to do?
35:55
Oh my gosh. Let's see. I think I was in the long the long answer would well, I guess the short answer
36:06
would be I would try to exit whatever sin that I could avoid. I would try to do everything I have
36:12
done because I would like to end up exactly where I am right now. One of my favorite pastors to listen
36:18
to who's a friend of yours now to Jim Bergen. One of the things that he'll close sermons with
36:23
sometimes is and he had a very rough backstory, very abused as a child kind of thing and his wife
36:32
struggles with bipolar in a significant way. And one of the things that he will say is if I had to
36:39
walk through everything I've had to walk through. My wife struggling with bipolar disorder, me being
36:46
abused as a child, if I had to walk through all of that to get to where I am today to be married to
36:52
that woman, have those kids and be able to pastor this church, I would welcome all the pain to get
36:57
to where I am right now. So what I would try to do is retrace my steps of my dream and do everything.
37:04
I mean, knowing what I know now, I would hate to graduate again from the seminary I graduated
37:09
from. But if I didn't graduate from that seminary, I wouldn't have got hired at the church in
37:12
Vinton, Virginia. And I wouldn't have met Gretchen and and dude, she's a she's a dream man. She's an
37:17
absolute dream. And then I would have my kids. So it is crazy. This is very, very much like Genesis
37:24
50 where Joseph went through hell. I mean, domestic violence, human traffic, false imprisonment.
37:31
And yet when he's standing in front of his brothers, even after his dad dies, he says,
37:35
I'm on on in the place of God, what you intended for evil God intended for good. So even my evil
37:39
decisions like, or dumb decisions, uninformed decisions led me here. So I would try to, because
37:45
that was I felt called a ministry when I was 19. So I was on that track that landed me here. And I
37:52
would try to replay steps to end up right back here, pastor in the church, married Gretchen,
37:57
father and my kids. Very good. Man, that's a fun one to think about. So for a lot of you guys,
38:02
again, we're wind the clocks back, you know, it's going to be different years for everybody. But for
38:06
me, that would be, you know, what, 17 years, go back 17 years and I'm 21 years old, getting ready
38:12
to graduate from college like what, what exactly would you do differently? And you know, that's
38:16
just kind of an interesting thought experiment. But you know how it goes, man, that's the last
38:19
question of the day. Anything else you want to get off your chest? Oh man, appreciate you.
38:23
All right, talk soon. Peace. Thank you for listening to this podcast. Wherever you're listening to
38:28
this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five star review. If you want to come speak live
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at your event or on your podcast, you shoot me an email to info@undonton.life. That's i-n-f-o
38:38
@undonton.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for
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everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way.
38:45
Just go to www.undonton.life. And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing
38:50
us to use their music for our content. The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua,
38:54
which is off their self-titled debut album on Face Down Records. The links are in the description.
38:58
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual,
39:05
mental and physical resilience. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
39:35
[end]