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This is Undaunted Life of Man's Podcast.
0:53
I'm your host Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.
0:56
Joe B. Martin, you're back, but here's the thing, I got a phone to pick with you right
0:59
from the beginning here.
1:00
Okay, are you prepared for this?
1:01
Yeah, let's do it.
1:02
Okay, because you know, we're recording this before it comes out and blah blah blah, it's
1:05
being released in the future, but as of right now, I've officially rolled with our mutual
1:12
buddy, Matt Chandler.
1:14
Matt Chandler and I were on the mats, we had our geese on, we got out there and we got after
1:17
it.
1:18
And so I've known you personally for a whole lot longer than I've known Matt Chandler, but
1:23
you and I have never had a physical dustup, what is the problem?
1:28
Patience grasshopper, patience.
1:29
Why are you avoiding it?
1:30
Come on, man.
1:31
I'm not, I just have a lot, you know, I got a lot going on.
1:34
All right, I know you got a lot going on, but hey, we're going to be seeing each other
1:37
a lot here in the very near future.
1:39
And so just bring your key just in case because I need to feel that that old man used to be
1:45
a college wrestler strength, okay?
1:47
Can we make that happen?
1:48
Yeah, sure.
1:49
No problem.
1:50
Okay, well, let's do that.
1:51
Question to the questions today, again, guys, remember, the only way you can get your question
1:54
answered here on this podcast is one, if you're me, two, if you're on my forging table crew,
1:58
and three, if you are a monthly donor.
2:00
So to the monthly donors out there, make sure you're sending me your questions.
2:03
So we're so happy to get your funds and your support.
2:06
But also don't forget, send me questions through our website and through our DMs on Instagram.
2:10
But the first one comes from me because I'm selfish because I got a DM from a buddy, a
2:14
teammate of mine, a guy that I really respect, high level athlete, does jujitsu, all those
2:19
types of things.
2:20
And he went vegan a while ago.
2:23
And so I'm not sure how long that's going to last.
2:26
And so I posted a picture of a brisket online and he goes, hey, man, you need to go vegan.
2:31
And I'm like, why would I want to be unhealthy?
2:33
And then his response to me, again, I like this guy, but it seems like we disagree on
2:37
this issue.
2:38
He goes, God created men to be vegetarian or God created man to be vegetarians that in
2:44
and so I didn't respond to that, but I have heard the argument before, Joby, that in
2:50
the garden, before Genesis three, right before the fall, that the intent from the beginning
2:56
was not that we would eat animals, but the intent from the beginning is that we would
3:00
get sustenance from everything else that God put in the garden.
3:04
And so what would be your response?
3:06
Because I know you've dealt with this before, especially because you're a hunter and all
3:08
those different things.
3:09
But when someone says God calls us to be vegetarians, what would you say in response
3:15
to that?
3:16
One, I would say read your Bible because Acts 10, 13 literally says, rise up, kill, and
3:21
eat.
3:22
And it was all meat.
3:23
It was animals that Peter received his vision.
3:26
Secondly, also the intent was that we would walk around naked.
3:29
So if he would like to also do that and have him feel free to live in the original intent.
3:35
Yeah, man, there's a new covenant in the new covenant.
3:41
We are commanded to rise up, kill, and eat.
3:44
Now, if somebody personally wants to be a vegan, just own it, bro.
3:48
But if you're trying to do it because you think that's what the Bible says, then you
3:51
are using the Bible as a means to your own end.
3:54
And I would highly caution you to do that because right now it's veganism.
3:59
And the next thing you know, it might be greed or lust, or you'll figure out some way
4:03
to make the Bible support you.
4:06
Yeah.
4:07
And that's the other thing that I would encourage people because this is one of those issues
4:11
that people create almost like their own religion around.
4:15
So they're not just vegans, like they're super vegans.
4:17
They don't just do crossfit.
4:18
They're like super crossfit.
4:19
Same thing with jiu-jitsu, same thing with anything.
4:21
You can kind of create a little bit of a worshipful posture with all these different things.
4:26
And so again, guys, if you ever get into one of these conversations, just ask the person,
4:29
Hey, if you were wrong about that, would you want to know if they don't respond well,
4:32
then just move on with your life.
4:33
So what I would say though is I do think we need to eat real food though.
4:39
I mean, you know, I think a part of the reason that the carnivore diet works so good for
4:44
some people and some kind of keto diet or even some kind of like when people truly go vegan,
4:50
probably the benefits that they're experiencing is they're taking out all of that hyper process
4:55
food that we were not meant to consume.
4:57
So you should eat the foods that, you know, like God's foods, like just the ones that
5:01
he made.
5:02
Yeah, I would certainly echo that guys, when you're when you're shopping on the internal
5:07
aisles of the supermarket, literally read the ingredients because it's consumable, but
5:13
it's not technically food.
5:15
Like one of my favorite things in the world to eat is an Oreo and Oreos technically not
5:19
food.
5:20
Right.
5:21
Like if you if you read the ingredients, like in the first time I discovered this was because
5:24
one of my good buddies is dairy free and he's like, Oh, but I can have Oreos and I'm like,
5:28
how's that possible?
5:29
He's like, man, I don't know, but there's no dairy in it.
5:32
And so guys, just, you know, buyer beware when it comes to all that stuff, but we're
5:35
going to get into our first donor question.
5:37
This is from Dylan.
5:39
So let's dig in here.
5:40
Could you help me make sense of Hebrews six, six?
5:43
Is this referring to a believer that willfully chooses to turn away from Christ?
5:48
Because I get hung up on the fallen away.
5:50
If God can't lose one of his sheep and I do believe that, then can a believer choose
5:55
to quote unquote fall away from Christ's work of salvation?
5:59
So before you answer that, Joby, I am going to go ahead and read Hebrew six, six from
6:02
the E. V. here and then have fallen away to restore them again to repentance since they
6:09
are crucifying once again, the son of God to their own harm and holding him up to content.
6:14
So help us understand.
6:15
Yeah, you really got to read verses one through eight to fully understand it.
6:19
He's talking to immature Christians that may believe they can lose their faith.
6:23
And ultimately what he's saying is, no, you can't lose your faith.
6:27
You can see it illustrated when you get to like verse seven and eight, there's two kinds
6:31
of land.
6:32
They both received the rain.
6:34
One produces fruit and then one produces nothing but thorn and thistles and it's thrown
6:38
away.
6:40
This is, this is kind of echoing what Jesus taught.
6:43
And I think it's Mark chapter four in the parable of the sower that the seed goes out
6:48
lands.
6:49
And there's some that they take it up joyfully at first, but it's choked out by the thorn
6:55
and the thistles.
6:56
So there are people that live amongst the community of fate.
7:00
They go to church and they, they get some of the benefits.
7:04
They've tasted the goodness of the word.
7:07
They have had some of the effects of the spirit of God, like the conviction of sin.
7:11
They have been in community.
7:13
They've been enlightened while God's ways work better, but they have not surrendered
7:18
their life to the lordship of Jesus Christ.
7:21
And you don't even have to submit Hebrews to Pauline letters, Hebrews three, fourteen
7:27
and ten, fourteen talk about basically what saved always saved.
7:33
The way John Calvin, the language he used was that, that the gospel, if we are saved,
7:40
then we will persevere.
7:42
And if we don't persevere, it's evidence of things like this, that it was just a fleshly
7:49
following for a season for whatever selfish gains we thought we may have.
7:56
And then, and then I think the Christ being crucified again, I can't remember the Latin
8:00
term, but there is a, there's a style of argumentation where you take the argument to it's like extreme
8:09
and bitter end.
8:11
So what he's saying is, if someone had like could lose their salvation, then the only
8:17
way they could be brought back is that Jesus would have to be crucified again for them,
8:21
which we know is impossible.
8:24
And then in this, he says, but listen, there's something better for you, like I don't think
8:30
you're, you're not going to be able to lose your salvation.
8:33
So this argument, now, if you plug this one line out, it's, it's troublesome.
8:38
But when you read it in the context of Hebrews six and three and ten, he's actually making
8:44
the argument that the question is not, can I lose my salvation?
8:50
The question is, can God lose one of his children and the answer is no way.
8:53
Okay, just real quick, just very briefly, when you're talking about when people follow
8:57
for a time to gain some sort of benefit, could you also extend that same logic to like the
9:02
church camp phenomenon where, you know, you rededicate your life or you get all fired
9:07
up by the, by the music and that you're basically marinating in this milieu of Christian ease
9:11
for a weekend. And then, you know, by Tuesday of the next week, that all kind of falls
9:15
away.
9:16
Is that kind of the same thing?
9:17
Yeah.
9:18
And it's more like the evidence, because that's how I got saved. I mean, I, you know, I get,
9:23
I was crying like crazy at the campfire camp and, and I went home and read my Bible for
9:28
several days in a row and then basically went back to everything I was doing. But I know
9:32
at this point in my life, that was the moment of my salvation. But it's really like the
9:37
proof is in the pudding. Like I still love Jesus. And I know that's when I first loved
9:42
Jesus. So I think it's like, I mean, a modern day application of this is that, is that all
9:51
the deconstruction people never surrender their life to the lordship of Jesus Christ.
9:57
What they are deconstructing from is a culture of Christianity. Because let me tell you who
10:04
does not deconstruct like Peter who had breakfast with Jesus. Never he never was he going to
10:10
be like, well, I don't know about this. Because he ate breakfast with the resurrected Christ.
10:13
Anybody that has been filled with the spirit, purchased by God, lambs, lambs book a life
10:20
member, then you're not going to turn away. In fact, we may stumble and fall, but we still
10:26
come to him. We don't reject him.
10:29
Okay, speaking of members, apparently we need to move on to this next question because you
10:34
are the sole member of the Ryan Horn fan club. That is Ryan Horn from the forging table as
10:38
you have already announced. He is your favorite above all others. So obviously I have to ask
10:43
you a question from the horn. So let's get into a wonderful question from the horn. He
10:47
always does provide me with really good questions all kidding aside. But it's this, because
10:51
a church has a large following and looks to be financially successful. Does that mean
10:55
God is blessing that church?
11:02
I would not connect the blessing of God with finances at all. If you look at, if you look
11:09
at the parable of the talents of Matthew chapter 25, I think the real hero there is the two
11:15
talent guy because he doesn't spend any of his time comparing himself to the one talent
11:21
or the five talent guy. And he gets the exact same reward as the five talent guy that the
11:29
master says well done, good and faithful servant, not good and fruitful servant. So fruitfulness
11:35
is up to the Lord. Faithfulness is up to us. And so I don't think so. I think there are
11:42
some really, really blessed, faithful, faithful churches, faithful men of God, just pastoring
11:48
their church and their praying and preaching and seeing they're doing all the right things.
11:53
And for whatever reason, they reach a lot less people. And so I would encourage them
11:59
to spend zero time comparing like their quote unquote success. I don't success in the kingdom
12:06
is a totally different measure. Paul's measure of success was dying or getting beaten for
12:13
Jesus. That's a different kind of success. Jesus says you want to be first be last,
12:18
you know, if you want to be successful, be a servant, be the least of these.
12:22
Well, I think, well, Joby, I think you can feel that when you walk into some small churches
12:26
and everything feels heavy, and I mean that in a good way, it's like there's a heft and
12:30
health to what's happening there. And I would point to my church, church, faith Bible church
12:34
in Edmond, Oklahoma, where pastor Mark Hitchcock has been leading that congregation for over
12:38
30 years. But the church wasn't like big, I guess you could say until like 2020, whenever
12:44
they finished a building project and then a whole bunch of families left other churches
12:47
to come to that church. And so that would have been one of those quote unquote small
12:51
churches that, you know, didn't have an enormous parking lot and didn't have like a social
12:55
media presence. And you would have been like, Oh, I wonder if God's not blessing that.
12:58
So I, you know, you introduced me to your pastor, which was awesome. We spent like a
13:03
half hour or something in his office just chatting. Man, he's a perfect example of just
13:08
yeah, he's just a faithful guy. I mean, he's a seminary professor. He's been the pastor
13:12
of that church for decades. And I mean, you know, he wants to reach people with the gospel
13:18
which which pastor doesn't. And so they just they focus way more on health than they did
13:25
growth. And if you do that long enough, then a lot of people like you are bringing your
13:30
friends to that church because you know that that Christ is priests and every in every sermon
13:35
that, you know, God's glorified. And I mean, now it's a big church with a lot going on.
13:41
When you can feel confident that the roots are strong and deep as well, because the same
13:45
thing, I mean, I've been told by your staff and I've also been told by you that when people
13:49
come to the church of 1122 for the first time, and which by the way, I do want to give you
13:52
a compliment, I love the fact that you hold court after you preach. So guys with my own
13:56
eyes, I've seen you preach on stage. And then you walk your happy little tushy right out
14:01
to the lobby and you stand there and you're surrounded by your staff and your assistance.
14:05
And there's a line of people that want to talk to you some just want their books signed,
14:08
some need serious help. And you are immediately getting them help and assistance. But I've
14:14
heard from your staff and I've heard from you that, you know, there's a significant number
14:18
of people that come to your church because of what they've heard on my show because they've
14:22
heard you on my show or they've heard me kind of talk about your church. And that would
14:25
be one of the things is some of these guys, Joby, they would be turned off just by the
14:30
size of the parking lot and the size of the sign on the building, right? That they may
14:34
otherwise be like, look, too big, no, no way it could possibly be healthy, which goes back
14:39
to one of our first connections whenever you were like, Hey man, you need to be careful
14:43
with how you talk about big churches because it could come off like, Hey, that you think
14:47
all the big churches are bad. But again, it's about the roots. Because if the roots aren't
14:51
healthy, the plant and the tree, like whatever, it can't be healthy as well.
14:55
Yeah. And Cal, I mean, people every week now that have come to us through Undaunted Life,
15:00
which is so great. But the real reason, I mean, I stand out there in the lobby just to meet
15:06
with people and pray with people first and foremost, man, I'm a servant in the ship or
15:09
not a celebrity. So the, the like green room culture, I think is weird. So I don't really
15:14
do that. I do, I do lock down before a sermon because it's like going out to pitch the world
15:20
series. You know, I got to get my mind right. And so I wouldn't be good with people before.
15:23
So that's also who I don't want to, you know, come off as a loop. And then one of the biggest
15:29
things that happens out, you know, like when I'm hanging out after the services, man, it's
15:33
like the ministry of referral, you know, we talked about this before, uh, when people
15:37
are like, I need you to help me. And I'm like, do you need help or you need me? You don't
15:41
need me. So the reason my whole staff is like right there on my right and left is man,
15:47
I'm spending a few minutes with people praying and then, and then, you know, you need to
15:50
talk to this person or this ministry. And I'm just trying to connect people as fast as
15:54
I can because we're not, we are, we have a big church, but we are not in the crowd business.
16:00
We are trying to make disciples and make disciples and make disciples and you have to be connected
16:04
in the local body. Absolutely. Amen to that. All right. Next question is from this is a
16:08
really, really smart question because it's from yours truly. Here we go. Next question.
16:13
How can we know that deism is wrong? So, uh, for, for anyone in the audience that isn't
16:19
like super familiar with deism because maybe you only know about deism because people are
16:22
like Thomas Jefferson was a deist. But that is essentially saying that natural law rules,
16:29
that it's in us from the beginning, we can use reason and rationality to come to some
16:33
semblance of ultimate knowledge. We don't get there through revelation. We don't get
16:38
there through, through the church or any of that type of stuff. And also a lot of people
16:42
that are deists, they kind of, they believe that there is a God, but they don't believe
16:47
that he is a God that intervenes, that he basically set things in motion, created things
16:51
from the very beginning, set them in motion and then kind of like wash his hands of the
16:56
results from there. So how can we know that deism as a worldview or philosophy is incorrect?
17:04
Uh, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. I mean, that is the foundation of all that
17:10
we believe in. Now I would point you to, uh, like C. S. Lewis and mere Christianity. So
17:17
deism is not altogether true, but it's not as wrong as atheism. It's at least a step
17:22
in the right direction that there is something behind the something. Um, but the enemy is,
17:27
uh, he's real crafty at taking, uh, a thing that is true. There is a God that is true.
17:35
And then twisting it to corrupt people and confuse people. And so the reason that we
17:42
can know that we have a God that is personal and loving is because of the incarnation,
17:50
the life, death and the resurrection of Jesus, that this Jesus who rose from the grave sat
17:55
down with his friends before this and said, I call you my friends. This is a God that
18:01
has intervened and not just has like a clock maker to judge, but he has intervened as a
18:07
personal savior. Hey guys, real quick, if you're anything like me, you are constantly
18:12
on the lookout for high quality products that are actually made here in America by American
18:17
hands. The problem is that a lot of American companies have outsourced their labor overseas.
18:22
So it's an American company, but it's supporting people that don't live here. So I've always
18:26
went to partner with an American company that prioritizes America, American workers and
18:31
making all of their materials here in this country. That's why I want to remind you that
18:35
we are partnered with Origin. Origin is an apparel company based in Maine and they are
18:40
focused on getting as much manufacturing back to the United States as they can possibly
18:44
do. What do they make? They make the best jujitsu giz on the planet. And these are the
18:49
only jujitsu giz that are made completely in America. They also make jeans. Yes, they're
18:53
stretching and awesome. They also make amazing hunting gear. And I know you guys love your
18:57
kuyu and your sicka, but those companies use overseas labor and they don't do that to help
19:02
you guys out. They do that to increase their profit margins. Origin also makes boots and
19:07
work boots. And yes, that does include still toe boots. And in the fall of last year, they
19:10
launched a line of everyday clothing, their Versa pants are their everyday pants. And
19:14
they are just especially phenomenal. They also make other outdoor clothes and workout
19:18
clothes and they're launching new apparel stuff all the time. If you haven't already,
19:22
you need to check them out and support a company that supports America and America's workers.
19:27
Try origin out today by going to www.originusa.com. That's originusa.com. Use the promo code
19:35
undaunted to get 10% off of your order. Again, that's originusa.com promo code undaunted to
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get 10% off of your order.
19:44
Okay, very good. Yeah, I know that can get a whole lot deeper, but this is kind of like
19:48
our own version of quick hitters with these questions back and forth. So we need to move
19:51
on to the next one. Another one from a donor again. Thank you to Matthew for being a donor.
19:55
This question is addressed to me, but the question does end up for you. So let me read
19:59
it here.
20:00
I've heard you mention your hesitation with the tulip in Calvinist theology and specifically
20:04
with the L of limited atonement. I just started going to church that also believes in that.
20:09
Having grown up in an assemblies of God church, I have never heard that before. And it gave
20:13
me the same hesitation. Could you ask Joby being a former Baptist, his thoughts on limited
20:19
atonement, briefly what it is, issues with it, et cetera. Now, I want to attach this Joby
20:24
to a comment that you made. I think I can't remember if it was Matthew 27 or Matthew 28
20:28
when you were on the forging table here in Oklahoma, where you talked about, you know,
20:31
if you bought Chick-fil-A sandwiches for the folks of Jacksonville that you only bought
20:36
them for the people that took them, I guess my response and where my mind went is like,
20:41
okay, right now God has purchased through Jesus eight billion, right? Chick-fil-A sandwiches.
20:48
There are eight billion Chick-fil-A sandwiches available because that's how many people
20:52
there are on earth. They were bought for everyone to have, but only those that will take them
20:59
will get them. So the only limits to God's purchases are the number of people currently
21:05
alive, right? And then the number of people that are willing to accept it. And so I promise
21:10
I'm not trying to muddy the waters. I am just like fervently trying to understand because
21:14
this is another guy and I've gotten a lot of messages similar to the one that Matthew
21:18
sent me to where they're just like, okay, Chick-fil-A sandwiches got it. You know, it's
21:23
only bought for the people that accept it. It makes sense, but there's still some things
21:26
there to where it's like they start kind of getting out into the, did he cause them to
21:30
come and grab them like those types of things. So if you could maybe refer to that and clear
21:35
that up maybe a little bit.
21:36
Yeah, all I want to do is make sure people are understanding what the words mean. Atonement
21:43
just means to pay for. So did Jesus pay for everybody's sins when he died on the cross?
21:50
If your answer is yes, it was unlimited, then you're a universalist. You believe you're
21:55
Rob Bell. You believe everybody goes to heaven because of Jesus. Well, is that what I believe?
22:01
I bet he doesn't. But what people do though is they jump from limited atonement to election.
22:07
Like, how do you believe? Those are just two, you're talking about two different things.
22:13
Now, Calvin would say in me that the how you can believe is a gift from God. It does not
22:20
originate with you. It originates with God. That's just what the Bible says. Then people
22:26
begin to add on to that the human implications of what that could mean in the most extreme
22:34
cases. Are you saying that some people are born screwed? Is that what you're saying,
22:38
Calvin? So that's a long leap from limited atonement. Limited atonement means that when
22:45
Jesus says it is finished, that counts for everyone who would believe. So it doesn't count
22:52
if you don't believe there. Therefore, by definition, it was not unlimited. It was limited to the
22:59
believers in Christ that his death and resurrection was only sufficient in salvation for people
23:07
that trust Christ for their salvation. Okay. So are some people born screwed? That's not
23:14
how I would say it. How would you say it? I would say that fate is a gift from God and
23:19
it comes from God. It does not originate with you. It originates with him. But he only gives
23:25
that to certain people. Apparently so. It's what the Bible says. All right. Well, for
23:31
those of you that love my once a month check-ins on Calvinist theology, Bada Bing, Bada Boom,
23:35
there you got it. But we're going to go ahead. I mentioned this on the 14 table. Okay. Yeah.
23:41
Every conversation around the nature of salvation when you're going to bottom out in Romans 9.
23:48
Okay. So whether you can get your mind around or not, some people tend to get their mind
23:52
around and love it. Some people tend to get the right around it and hate it. Yeah. I don't
23:57
care how much we argue about this or you argue about this or whatever. Right. So you're going
24:02
to get to this place where you find yourselves in Romans 9 and the Paul's argument is who
24:10
is the clay to say to the potter how he is made? That's just where it like, that's where
24:16
it ends. Like who are you to look at God and say, I get to tell you who I am. You don't
24:23
get to tell me who I am. So I don't know that makes you feel better or not, but it is like
24:29
all roads understand is end up in Romans 9. And that's the question. What's that clay?
24:35
Like God's looking at you going, what's that? Well, Joby, you know this, I'm all about feelings.
24:39
And so when I don't feel good inside, obviously I need to challenge anything that is trying
24:43
to make my feelings, not what I want them to be. Okay. So let's just keep that in mind
24:47
as we continue to plug through these questions. This next question is from, you know, a lesser
24:52
forging table or this one's from Eric, but no one cares about Eric because he's not
24:55
Ryan Horn. Right. So let's get into this question from Erica. Love this question. When
24:59
is it all right to lie? And can you do so without sinning? Yes. Ray have hid the spies.
25:10
And so apparently, so it's kind of that thing. It's like when the, when the authority right
25:16
over you is anti God and you need to subscribe to a higher authority. For instance, the underground
25:25
missionaries that we send in the Muslim countries, they are dishonest within their like applications.
25:32
They're going, they're like, we're teachers. Now that's not untrue. But that's not actually
25:35
why they're going. They're going to share the good news of the gospel. So I think in
25:40
service to the Lord, that's when it's okay. So with that also be like, I'm trying to remember
25:46
when the midwives didn't do what Fayro told them to do, like obviously they weren't, you
25:51
know, people would be like Romans 13, like they have to respect their authorities. It's
25:55
like not the authorities are telling you to do that. Yeah, there's also revelation 13.
25:59
And you should always read Romans 13 and revelation 13 together because Romans 13 is
26:03
about submitting to godly authorities and revelation 13 is like, what do you do when
26:08
the whore is riding the beast and they're in charge? No, you fight. So got to keep those
26:13
two things in tension. So that's, that's one of the cases where I mean, lie might be technically
26:18
right. Like, you know, sometimes with your children, even there's make believe that's
26:25
not lying. Sometimes there's surprises. Like, Hey, man, we're going to do a surprise party
26:31
for mom and her present is hidden in the garage. Don't tell her. And so that's different.
26:38
That's not, I mean, I guess technically you're not saying the truth, but it's for a, it's
26:42
for a godly reason. It's not for your own. It's not for your propagating yourself.
26:47
Well, for me, it's like surprise, Thompson boys, Santa is not real. So that's what surprises
26:52
are going to be like here in our household. And so it's like, Hey, we're not, we're not
26:55
going to believe any of that nonsense. But don't worry guys, I'm not going to kill Santa
26:58
until later on this year. We need to get to the next question here. This one's from
27:01
William again. Thank you so much, William, for being a donor to undaunted life. Here's
27:04
his question. Will and does God change his mind if we ask? And if so, are there certain
27:12
conditions that need to be met by us in order for him to do so?
27:18
So God is immutable, which means he doesn't change. However, there is this conversation
27:25
about sodoming the more where there seems to be a negotiation going on. So, you know,
27:31
how do you explain that? I guess those things can simultaneously be true that God could
27:36
say a thing knowing that he's trying to lead his people to a place of contrition. But that's
27:47
not a dodge. I just, because the thing that you want to do when you're answered, when you're
27:52
asked these kinds of questions is not lead with. So here's what I think. Who cares what
27:57
I think. I try to take my mind to what does God's words say? So it says, God is the same
28:02
yesterday, today, tomorrow, but yet also Jesus is God and Jesus got taller between 12 and
28:08
20. So what does that mean? Well, both of those things can be simultaneously true and
28:12
not in contradiction with one another. So for instance, when Jesus teaches his own prayer,
28:19
it seems to imply that we have, there are some things that won't happen in the universe
28:30
if we don't beg God to move in that way. And yet God is sovereign over all things. It
28:36
gets circular real quick. Yeah. And Roman says we don't know what to pray. Like he tells
28:41
us what to pray. If we don't pray, it stuff doesn't happen. We come to him over and over
28:46
and over, like knocking and seeking and finding, you know, just over and over and over. And
28:50
then he moves in respect. He moves as we pray, even if he initiated them, and he is sovereign
29:00
over all the things. Okay, wait, so you had a little, little
29:03
consternation there that may have just been gas, but it was, it does relate to the next,
29:09
I guess kind of my next thought here is I've said before, and I'm, I'm okay with being
29:13
corrected that how I said, I want to be careful with my words as well. It's like, because
29:20
I struggle with prayer, I have told people before I was like, ultimately, it doesn't
29:26
matter if I let me actually back up. Okay, so let me back completely up. One of my worst
29:30
jobs I ever had, I was selling coupon books door to door, right? And so this particular
29:34
day we were selling coupon books to Texas Rangers games in Oklahoma City. And so beforehand
29:39
all of our dopey managers are like, Hey, how's everybody feeling today before we go
29:42
out there and full suits and ties in August and go door to door and sell these coupon
29:46
books. And I was like, well, you know, it's going to be a little bit harder of a sale
29:49
today. Yesterday was a, you know, a salon that's right down the road. This is, you know, a baseball
29:54
stadium that's three and a half hours away. And if you're not a baseball fan, maybe you
29:57
don't want to go down there. So I was just trying to get through some of the objections
30:00
that I knew I was going to be hearing in the field, like before anything started. And my
30:05
manager freaks out, he goes, well, you might as well just stay here today because you're
30:08
already defeated. I was like, or on the contrary, I'm already thinking through what I'm going
30:13
to have to deal with. And you know, I went out there and sold more than anybody anyway.
30:17
And so I guess the problem is, is like, I've told people before, like, your posture towards
30:22
prayer doesn't change the outcome of what's going to happen. And so if that person was
30:26
going to die of cancer, they were going to die of cancer, regardless of if you pray
30:30
for it or not, you were going to get the job or you weren't going to get the job. And
30:33
so again, I'm open to being wrong about that. But it's just like, I just don't think I
30:38
have a whole lot of input on the outcome just because I've prayed and asked, because you
30:44
know, sometimes the answer to prayer is no, not now. It's not for you, those types of
30:49
things. Does that make sense?
30:50
Yeah, except for Jesus says you have not because you asked not.
30:53
Oh, there is that. That's what I mean. You got to root it in like, just what it says.
30:59
So I am not a pre-determinalist, like, that it's all been mapped out that way. Somehow
31:04
God is sovereign. He is in control. He's never surprised. Somehow God is at work and all
31:10
things. And yet he created us as image bears in such a way where he is a good dad says
31:16
to his kids, just keep asking me and keep asking me. And there are some things that
31:21
won't happen if you don't ask. I mean, that's what he says, you have not because you asked
31:25
not. So we should ask because we're dependent on
31:29
you. Okay. All right. Very good. Well, this is going to be the last question of the day.
31:34
This one's a doozy, man. Like this is going to be one of those ones where you wish I would
31:37
have asked you at the beginning. So you had got more time to chew on it before I went
31:40
in. So are you, are you prepared? Is your heart and soul prepared for this next question?
31:44
I am ready. Okay. This one's for me. Would you rather fight three 16 year olds or 16
31:54
three year olds? 16, three year olds. One thing I didn't tell you is the three year olds are
32:01
armed. Okay. They've got pointy sticks. Some of them have hammers. And so it's like you
32:07
got three 16 year olds or 16 armed three year olds. I think I can win either way, but maybe
32:13
yeah, I guess the armed puts it over the age. Okay. Maybe three 16 year olds, no problem.
32:19
I didn't call for a bunch of years. So I've virtually done this. Hey, well, that was kind
32:25
of a derivative of another question for someone. I think someone asked me for my AMA, like,
32:28
how many squirrels do you think you could kill? Like if they attacked you? Like, what is the
32:32
number of squirrels? But I'm like, dude, I've seen people get attacked by one squirrel and
32:38
they look really uncomfortable. And so it's like, yes, that's like a seven ounce animal
32:42
or something like that. But they seem insane. I mean, they're basically a rat with a bushy
32:46
tail. Dude, if they get coordinated, you'd be screwed. I mean, if they like come up with
32:50
a plan like, Hey, eyes and ears and crotch and ready go. I mean, it'd be a tough battle.
32:56
I'm just saying like, I got a three year old right now. And I think if I got him at 15
32:59
of his friends, armed him and gave him a little bit of a game plan that you might be in trouble,
33:04
I'm just going to say like you might need more than that denim jacket. But Joby, that's
33:07
all for me. Is there anything else where we get you out of here?
33:09
No, man. Thanks. Good to see you. All right. See you next time. Thank you for listening
33:12
to this podcast. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us
33:16
a positive five star review. If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your
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33:33
And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for
33:37
our content. The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self titled
33:41
debut album on Face Down Records. The links are in the description. I'm your host, Kyle
33:46
Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical
33:52
resilience. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
34:11
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