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Ask a Pastor with JOBY MARTIN | March 2024 (Ep. 575)

March 5, 2024 48m 00s Full transcript available
Ask a Pastor with JOBY MARTIN | March 2024 (Ep. 575)
0:00 / 48m 00s
In this episode, Joby Martin and I tackle tough questions about baptism, the authority of Scripture, and discerning God's will. We dive deep into the differences between credo and pedo baptism, the significance of Israel as God's chosen people, and how to engage with the next generation authentically.
Transcript
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0:50 This is Undaunted Life Man's podcast.
0:53 I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
0:55 Let's get into it.
0:56 All right.
0:57 Joby Martin, you're back.
0:58 I would say you look better than ever.
0:59 But you just look the same.
1:00 You're very, very consistent.
1:01 The beard's always nice and well cropped and every now and then you do rock our hat.
1:06 So this is good.
1:07 This is good news.
1:08 Yeah, I kind of have a uniform.
1:09 I actually have to think about what I wear, you know, on the weekend.
1:13 So I don't think about what I wear during the week or where the black t-shirt jeans,
1:17 if it's cold enough, a jacket.
1:19 That's what people wonder.
1:20 Like why do you wear a black t-shirt?
1:21 You know, every time you do a podcast, every time you present, it's because I don't want
1:25 to have to think about it.
1:26 And so for you, obviously, if you wear the same thing for every sermon, it'd be a little
1:29 weird.
1:30 But I try not to be distracting the people because I'm already distracting because I'm
1:33 like a lunatic and I look like this with my face.
1:36 And so it's like, hey, if I wear black jeans and a black shirt, you can't, you know, you
1:39 won't see my sweat and you can't make fun of my clothing.
1:42 So we're going to launch right into our donor questions today.
1:46 So guys, again, if you want to be a part of the ask a pastor podcast, if you want to get
1:50 your questions added to the bank, you have to be a monthly donor to Undaunted Life again.
1:54 We are so, so thankful for a monthly donor.
1:56 So let's get into our first question here.
1:57 And this one's from Ben, what are the biblical defenses for credo baptism and pedo baptism
2:03 and the ways each refutes, refutes the other?
2:06 So let's do some definitional work from the beginning.
2:08 What's the difference between credo baptism and pedo baptism, then we'll launch in.
2:13 Credo baptism is baptism as a believer after you have created that you believe in Jesus,
2:19 pedo means like kids, so it's child baptism, there is not one evidence in all of the Bible
2:26 of a baby being baptized, period.
2:29 It is repent and be baptized.
2:33 And actually, I think the only reason that Protestants still do this is just left over
2:37 from the Roman Catholic Church and they didn't have the guts.
2:40 You know, you can't change everything during the great Reformation.
2:43 So they kind of hung on to this.
2:45 And then, especially the Presbyterian is built a theology around it instead of the practice
2:50 coming out of theology.
2:52 So every single time in the book of Acts, the Bible says that belief preceded baptism.
2:58 Now what the pedo baptism will say is, yeah, but you know, a couple of people, the jailer,
3:04 he and his whole household were baptized.
3:08 Well my whole household has been baptized too, but my children were 12 and 10 when they got
3:13 baptized or something like that.
3:14 So that's kind of like an argument from silence.
3:18 There is no place in the Scripture.
3:20 So what a lot of people are trying to do is they're trying to equate Old Testament circumcision
3:26 with New Testament baptism and saying that that is the mark of a covenant that God has
3:32 with his people.
3:34 And so you got to do some serious hermeneutical gymnastics to make that sort of connection.
3:41 Everywhere in the New Testament, baptism is an outward invisible symbol of a thing that
3:47 has already happened and that is the salvation and regeneration of the person that is declaring
3:54 that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior.
3:56 So I'm assuming that you would give the same advice to people as kind of what I did.
4:00 So I remember being in like fifth or sixth grade, we're driving home from church.
4:03 This was like that stretch of like three months where my mom like drug us to church.
4:08 And on the way home, one of the Sunday, she's like, well, do you think you want to get baptized
4:11 here soon?
4:12 And I was like, at the time, again, being a little kid, I thought you had to get baptized
4:16 multiple times through your life because my grandmother right before she passed, she
4:20 was baptized.
4:21 And I was like, okay.
4:22 So you have sin all over you.
4:23 And then if you could like get dunked like really close to when you're going to die, you
4:27 don't have as much sin on you.
4:28 So God will let you in.
4:29 So I got baptized like, you know, as a fifth grader and then whenever I became a Christian
4:33 or whenever God revealed that he showed me or whatever the language I'm supposed to use
4:37 is like in 10th grade, I got baptized then as well.
4:40 So if you were baptized as a kid or just, you know, sprinkled and dunked for, you know,
4:44 a reason that you didn't even understand, you would suggest getting baptized again when
4:48 you've actually made a declaration of faith.
4:51 Yes, for sure.
4:52 Because it is that's exactly what it is.
4:54 And for all of you that grew up in traditions where your parents had you baptized as a child,
5:02 you're not, you're not trying to undo what they did.
5:07 You're actually confirming what they were praying for.
5:10 Like, what they were hoping and praying for is that one day that you would personally
5:13 know Jesus as your Lord and Savior.
5:16 And so I would highly suggest that even if like you did, you know, you were, you weren't
5:22 a baby, but you were just kind of going with the flow because that's what everybody else
5:26 at church was doing.
5:27 And in the book of Acts, you know, they run into a group of guys that had the baptism of
5:32 John, but not the baptism of Jesus.
5:35 And so they repaptize those guys because they were like, do you know the Holy Spirit?
5:39 And they're like, who is he?
5:40 I've never heard of this Holy Spirit.
5:41 They're like, whoa, what are you talking about?
5:43 And they go, well, we were baptized as the baptism of John that it's a, it's kind of
5:47 a similar event.
5:49 Like we were just doing the best we know with what we had, but now we have the revelation
5:53 of Jesus.
5:54 And so we want to do what he commanded in Matthew chapter 28 and that's make disciples
6:00 and then be baptized.
6:01 Right.
6:02 And this isn't going to be the baptism episode because we got a lot more ground to cover,
6:05 but then you, you, there are also denom, well, talk about this just briefly, Joby.
6:09 There are denominations like my wife grew up in this one, small town church of Christ,
6:13 where if you weren't baptized, you didn't go to heaven.
6:16 Like baptism was essential for your name to be written in the Lamb's book of life.
6:22 And if you bring up the thief on the cross, they, they've got kind of a, you know, weird
6:26 hermeneutic for why they can explain that one away, but like you would say, so that baptism
6:31 is just the first thing that we are called to do basically to be like to show a public
6:37 declaration of this new faith, but it's not a requirement in order to go to heaven.
6:42 It's a work of obedience.
6:43 So Ephesians two will let us know that we're saved by grace through faith and not by works.
6:48 And the act of baptism is a work of obedience.
6:51 So you should get baptized after you profess Christ as your savior, but you should do a
6:57 lot of things after you profess Christ.
6:59 Yeah.
7:00 None of those works are going to save you or unsave you because you can't get unsaved.
7:04 All right.
7:05 Very good.
7:06 Well, we'll move on to the next donor question.
7:07 It's a really smart question because it's coming from me.
7:09 You're truly because I like to sneak my own questions in here, but a lot of people have
7:14 asked this.
7:15 So I'm kind of like representing them with my question.
7:17 I'm just going to flow on it.
7:18 So there are a lot of people that run into this whenever they're having discussions with
7:21 non-Christians, but they're like, how can we trust the Bible and then Christians will
7:25 just say things like, well, the Bible says the Bible is true.
7:29 Or how do, hey, how do we know that the Bible is God breathed?
7:32 How do we know that these men didn't just like make mistakes that they were fallible,
7:35 so they wrote things down wrong and people will say, Oh, because the Bible's God breathed
7:39 and they're like, well, where do you find that?
7:40 Oh, it's in the Bible.
7:42 We would never accept that with anything else in this world.
7:45 Like, if we were reading a science textbook, right, you know, if you're a young earth person,
7:49 you're reading this textbook that says, Hey, it's, it's this many years old.
7:52 And then someone said, well, how can you prove that?
7:53 They're like, well, it's here in this book.
7:55 And this book was written by people that I know like and trust.
7:57 And so why in the world wouldn't you believe it?
7:59 It's in this book.
8:00 The book says it's true.
8:01 And so it becomes a circular problem.
8:03 So we're approaching this, not from a biblical standpoint, but we're approaching this from
8:06 a philosophical, logical standpoint.
8:09 How in the world do we make that argument work?
8:11 Well, you got to stay with the right argument.
8:14 Like if you're talking to a non Christian, the argument you're trying to win is that
8:20 Jesus died on the cross for their sins and was resurrected again on the third day.
8:24 Okay.
8:26 And what oftentimes what happens is people try to get into an infallibility of the scripture
8:30 argument.
8:31 It's the wrong argument.
8:32 Now, don't hear me say anything I'm not saying.
8:35 I believe that it's all T.S. news to us, that it's all God breathed that, you know, I'm
8:39 a high, high, high, high view of the Bible.
8:42 And if I don't have a high enough view, it's because I don't know that there is another
8:45 one that exists.
8:47 However, if I'm sitting on the airplane and somebody is like, well, how can I believe
8:50 the Bible?
8:51 I'm like, I don't know.
8:53 Let's just say everything, all of your criticisms, criticisms that are legitimate are legitimate.
8:59 But, but historically, here are some things I know.
9:04 And I do think you need to be at least well enough equipped to know that the eyewitnesses
9:09 wrote this during their lifetime, that most of the thing, some of the kind of like criticism
9:15 that you hear in your freshman English class are pretty much made up and have been debunked
9:19 by every legitimate historian.
9:22 So nobody actually, no, no legitimate historians believe that kind of biblical criticism like
9:27 Matthew didn't write Matthew and John didn't write John and Constantine just added whatever
9:31 he wanted to in 300.
9:33 Since we got the Dead Sea Scrolls, nobody, no historians believe those things.
9:37 But just look at some of the facts.
9:39 If you were writing a story about you, would you put your faults in there like that?
9:46 The place that you think it, it contradicts itself.
9:50 Well, if this was a strategized document of propaganda, why in the world would that be
9:56 in there?
9:57 Some of those kind of things I would do everything you can to point people to let's talk about
10:03 the resurrection.
10:05 Did you, do you think like here's all the evidence that Jesus Christ actually lived, died and
10:11 was resurrected from the grave?
10:14 What are you going to do about that?
10:16 Because what you're trying to do is share the gospel.
10:19 Now again, it comes from the scriptures, but I think it's the wrong argument.
10:22 This is, you and I had this discussion before about the, when Andy Sandy says the un-hitched
10:27 thing.
10:28 And when you and I were trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, this is what we were
10:32 saying.
10:33 Right.
10:34 It starts with the empty tune.
10:35 So don't try to attach salvation to a literal Noah's Ark or not.
10:40 It's just a different conversation.
10:42 I think it's an important conversation.
10:44 You know, I think it's literal because Jesus thought it was literal.
10:47 However, if you're, wherever, chairing your faith with somebody, then stay focused on
10:53 the actual point, which is the life, death and resurrection of Jesus.
10:57 Okay.
10:58 So as a follow up on that, this always happens.
11:00 I have all these questions I want to get to and then like it comes up with other stuff.
11:04 So you and I have had some discussions privately about deconstruction and you know, you really
11:08 like the interview.
11:09 I did with Tim Barnett and Lisa Childers and their book and all those types of things.
11:12 So I'm with you.
11:13 If I'm coming into a discussion and someone's like, well, hey, what about dinosaurs?
11:16 Hey, did Jonah really live in the belly of the well?
11:18 Hey, well, there's no archeological evidence that this people group ever lived lived in
11:22 this area.
11:23 I try to not just dismiss those things.
11:25 I try to address them in a way that I can, but I do try to bring it back to the gospel.
11:28 So let's just play this out.
11:30 So let's say I do provide a gospel presentation and in that moment, their eyes are opened.
11:34 They make the decision or the decision is made for them before life and memoriam or whatever.
11:39 And then they decide to follow Christ.
11:42 Does that not then potentially lead to future deconstruction for this person because initially
11:48 they were given the gospel, which is the most important thing that they can be given.
11:52 But then their questions are still unanswered.
11:55 Maybe they look for their questions in all the wrong places.
11:57 They go to TikTok theologians and, you know, random turds in random churches that basically
12:02 lead them down the road to deconstruction.
12:03 You know what I mean?
12:04 Yeah.
12:05 No, I think I think the foundation then of their faith is actually more solid that their
12:10 foundation is a belief in a resurrected Christ.
12:15 So then the next step of discipleship is so what did Jesus think about these questions
12:20 you're asking?
12:21 Many of them are actually answered like you can.
12:25 It's a great place to start on the authority of the word of God is the one that I just put
12:30 my trust in as my Lord and savior.
12:32 What did he think about the authority of the word of God?
12:35 That's a great place to start because he talks specifically about things like male and
12:40 female and marriage and Jonah and, you know, and then there's some other things he doesn't
12:44 talk about, but it's a great place to start.
12:46 And then I, you know, we don't ever want to end with just the, oh, they prayed to receive
12:51 Christ.
12:52 Cool.
12:53 See in heaven, but steps of discipleship are for sure going to be diving in the words
12:57 so that you can be rooted in it.
12:59 Hey, guys.
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14:55 When I think also, and I love when when Vodibokum kind of helped me understand this where
14:58 it's like, hey, there's no such thing as a red letter in the Bible, right?
15:02 Because if God is part of, if Jesus is part of the triune God, then all the letters are
15:08 read.
15:09 And you know, John 1-1, in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the
15:12 Word was God.
15:13 And so it's like, okay, if we can go back to that, you know, we don't have to necessarily
15:16 talk about the fact that Jesus referred to Jonah and it seemed like he was referring
15:20 to it as a true story and not mytho history, but we can go back to the actual source there
15:25 and the source is Jesus ultimately.
15:27 All right, next question here, this is from a donor named Dave.
15:29 I see very little biblical evidence for the rapture, not that I am against it.
15:33 It just isn't very clearly stated, yet it's quite a popular doctrine.
15:37 I know it is not a part of our essential faith.
15:39 And as someone said, the main things are the plain things and God uses, and God does use
15:45 repetition for the most meaningful doctrines fear.
15:47 Not God loves you, Jesus died for our sins, et cetera.
15:51 So how did the doctrine of the rapture become a thing?
15:55 The word rapture is a pretty recent, you know, like less than 200 year old kind of
15:59 word.
16:00 It really just all comes down to timing.
16:04 The Bible does say that we as believers will be caught up in the air when Jesus returns.
16:10 Now where the divide is, there's a bunch of Bible believing Jesus loving Orthodox Christians
16:16 that are either pre-millennial, post-millennial or amillennial.
16:22 And I think it's a shame to divide over those things.
16:26 There is a really great YouTube video, it's probably an hour long.
16:31 I think it's called a night of eschatology.
16:34 That's a good one to check out.
16:36 It's got John Piper, Sam Storms, some Southern Baptist professor who's not as famous as anybody
16:42 else on there, and Doug Wilson, okay?
16:47 And it's a really great example of four different men that all love Jesus and love one another,
16:53 and nobody's questioning anybody's salvation.
16:57 And some of them believe in like a left behind type rapture, and some of them don't based
17:04 on whether they're amillennial, post-millennial, or pre-millennial.
17:08 And that language has to come, has to do with when do you think the thousand year reign happens,
17:14 and is that thousand year reign, a literal reign, or not a literal reign?
17:19 And so, all right, here's a little bit of a, it's a cop-out, but it matters.
17:24 When people ask me that question, I say, well, I'm a pan-millennial, so what does that mean?
17:28 I'm like, it's all going to pan out on the end, but in Matthew 24, the disciples asked
17:34 Jesus specifically about the end of the world, because Jesus says, hey man, the whole temple
17:40 gets torn down three days later, it'll be built back.
17:42 And they're like, what's the end of the world going to be like?
17:44 All of Matthew 24, he gives very specific signs and wonders, and the abomination of
17:49 desolation, and rumors of war, and earthquakes, and all this stuff, you know?
17:53 And I think this is a little bit of speculation, but I think the disciples are like glazed
17:57 over.
17:58 Like, what are you talking about?
17:59 Yeah, yeah.
18:00 Like the preachers, when they have the maps, and they're like, the Newark, New York times,
18:03 and they're like, see, this one happened, and they're like, what are you talking about?
18:06 Then Jesus is like, all right, time out, hold on.
18:10 People get concerned about the win, but get real concerned about the who.
18:14 And then Jesus says, I'm not even sure, only my father knows.
18:18 And then he tells three stories.
18:20 So how do you get ready for the end of times?
18:22 Just the parable of the virgins, don't miss the party.
18:25 Get saved.
18:26 And then the party starts, bro, invitation time's over.
18:29 And if you're on the outside, you're screwed, okay, parable of the talents is don't waste
18:33 your life.
18:34 Leverage everything the Lord has given you to build his kingdom.
18:37 And then the parable of the sheep and goats.
18:39 This is kind of like all of the book of James jammed into one story.
18:43 If you have, if you actually have faith, your life ought to look like it and you should
18:46 care for the least of these.
18:48 And that is his answer as Jesus's answer to the end of times questions.
18:55 So that's where I am.
19:00 And then another thing that I don't think is a terrible thing to do.
19:03 This is just kind of a theology hack.
19:06 So I think it's okay to find a person or a camp that you are really sure that you believe
19:16 what they believe about 99% of the things.
19:20 And then when you're a little confused on some stuff, it's not the worst thing to attach
19:23 yourself to that as you inform yourself on what the Bible says about it.
19:28 Okay.
19:29 Cause that kind of gives you a little bit of a Rosetta stone or something like it kind
19:32 of helps you like focus in a particular direction. And by the way, I did find that YouTube videos
19:36 on the desiring God YouTube page is called an evening and eschatology, premenolinealism.
19:41 I'm a little, I'm just not even going to try. Here we go. No, I'm actually going to do
19:45 it.
19:46 Pre-millennialism, I'm millennialism, post-millennialism, nailed it. All right.
19:50 And I will put that in the show notes so you guys can check that out. And it's actually
19:52 two hours long. And so for me, like I've been asked that are, you know, pre-mail, on-mail,
19:57 post-mail, whatever. And my answer is I just don't care. I care about it about as much as
20:01 I care about young earth versus older. It's like, if you want to nerd out and go fully
20:05 down the rabbit hole, I'm all for it. Go for it. Don't send me a follow up email because
20:10 I won't read it. I don't care. But it's just one of those things where it's, it's neat.
20:14 It's kind of neat to think about, but it was like, it's just of all the things to worry
20:17 about. That's just not one that I'm super duper worried about because we can't know
20:21 for sure. We can make compelling arguments, but we can't know for sure.
20:25 What I'm talking about, what's helpful about that is, what you do want to make sure you
20:31 do on theological ideas like this, there are some things that get outside of what would
20:38 be considered orthodoxy and gets into heresy. And you don't, when we, me and you, we don't
20:43 want to be like, well, that doesn't matter. So I can believe whatever. And then you're
20:47 like, well, the implication of that belief is modalism, which is a heresy that was, you
20:53 know what I mean? So same thing with like creation stuff in Driscoll's book, which again,
20:59 I don't know if we're supposed to still mention him, but his book, I know, I only said that
21:03 because you say that all the time in his book doctrine on, on the doctrine of creation.
21:08 What I loved about it is in a whole chapter, he basically said, I'm going to mess up the
21:13 details, but he probably, he said there's something like seven or eight things the church
21:17 has historically believed. And here's the five or six of them that I would say are orthodox
21:23 and you could believe young earth or older or a gap theory or, you know, all the different
21:28 things. And then here are the things that have implications on things like original
21:31 sin that fall outside of orthodox belief.
21:36 All right. So if you hear me typing, it sounds like artillery's going off because I have an
21:40 old school keyboard because I love it. Mac keyboards are the worst, but the doctrine book
21:44 by Mark Driscoll, I will go ahead and throw that here in the show as well. So you guys
21:47 can check that out. But let's get to the next question here. This is from Zach. And this
21:50 is the Zach of the forging table fame. So here's one from the forging table. How can
21:55 a person discern God's will in their lives? How should we think about our role and the
22:00 need to be proactive while balancing the need to be patient and trusting first everywhere
22:07 in the Bible that says this is the will of God start doing that. So in the Solonians,
22:12 it says, this is God's will. And what does it say? It's like be grateful, pray continually
22:17 and love one another. All right. We know Matthew 28 is God's will. So be about the things that
22:24 you absolutely know is God's general will for every believer. Then in the meantime, as
22:34 you are on the go, then you trust the nudges and then I, this is very simplified theology.
22:41 You just got to pray, guess and go. I mean, I don't, you know, I don't think you talk
22:46 about this sometimes. You're like, you're not going to find the answer of the Bible
22:49 of what college to go to. It's just not going to say it, you know. Yeah. But so what you
22:53 do is you pray. I mean, think about it. You got to pray to the point where you're like,
22:58 all right, Lord, if I go in the wrong direction between these choices that I have in my life,
23:04 I'm going to trust that if I choose wrong, you're going to send a big fish to swallow
23:08 me up and get me back on track. I mean, the disciples replaced the twelfth disciple or
23:14 apostle. They did their homework. So they had qualifications. They narrowed it down to
23:20 two dudes. Then they cast lots. They really prayed over it to the point where they believe
23:25 they could roll the dice and God would prevail. That's how you know the will of God. But again,
23:31 I don't, it's got to line up with the scripture, get very, very serious about doing the things
23:37 that you know that he's called all of us to do. Like share our faith, pray, be generous,
23:44 be a part of a church, make disciples. This is the will of God for your life. Now how that
23:49 happens, just go, man. Just go. The worst thing I see is people waiting and they're not doing
23:56 anything as they're just like waiting on some revelation about what specifically to do.
24:02 When I've described it to people this way, I'm like, well, look, dude, there's God's
24:05 perfect will for you and then there's God's realized will. And so it's like, if you're
24:09 trying to choose between college A and college B and you were supposed to go to A and you
24:13 go to B instead, it's like, do you think that God can't use you? Like, you know, it was
24:16 kind of like the question I think I answered in the AMA. It was like a 20 year old that
24:20 was like super nervous about the, the track that he was going to go down in his career
24:25 and he's 20. And I was like, bro, I was out of school for 10 years and I had 11 different
24:29 jobs in 10 years, right? And now I'm freaking yelling into a microphone for a living like
24:35 I you can't go to school for that. But you're a good, you're a good example, just because
24:38 I know a little bit of your story. But God's will for your life as a husband is to provide
24:45 and protect for his wife. And so you're still in those card things that that does not seem
24:50 like is pressing the kingdom forward. But that's not the point. The point is we know
24:55 what the Bible says about loving and the Bible says, if you didn't have that job and
25:00 not take care of your wife, you're worse than an unbeliever. Well, while you're doing what
25:05 the Bible says a husband does in somewhere in that the Lord begins to get you in the spot
25:10 that he wants you right now. So yeah, so for those of you that don't know the reference
25:14 that he's making for a stretch after college, I was selling coupon book store to door and
25:19 yes, it sounds as awful as as it sounds. It was as awful as it sounds. But at that time,
25:24 I was newly married and I needed to prove to my wife that I was going to do whatever it
25:27 took to take care of her so that we could keep our 500 square foot, you know, shotgun style
25:32 duplex that we were living in at the time. Yeah, we were rolling in it, baby. We were
25:35 fancy from the beginning. So yeah, like you do what you can. But I wasn't put on this
25:39 planet to sell, you know, coupon books for, you know, spas. So it just kind of worked
25:43 out that way. All right, let's go to the next one here. This is from a lady listener. We
25:46 always love our lady listeners, even though you are the minority here, but we absolutely
25:49 love you guys. So this is from Missy. Can you describe in layman's terms, the fullness
25:54 of why Israel will always be God's chosen people? I know in a nutshell why, but I always
26:00 seem to be short on a full understanding of why, like why does there have to be a chosen
26:05 people? Well, let's go get dicey. So according to Romans nine and 10, God's chosen people
26:15 shifts because the way Paul describes the blessing through Abraham would be those who
26:22 have faith. However, geographically, there is a Israel, the nation of Israel, it will
26:33 play a very significant role in all of these end times things that we're talking about.
26:39 Like when Jesus returns, that's where he's going. He's going to plant his feet on the
26:43 Mount of Olives in Israel and split that mountain in half. And he's going to walk through the
26:49 gate to the temple mount. These things are going to happen. So God established a people
26:59 to be a light to the world and a city on a hill. And out of that people, it was the incubator
27:06 for the Messiah who was to come. But now all believers are grafted into, I guess you could
27:15 call it like spiritual Israel. Now, what people will say is all that's just replacement theology
27:20 as if that's a bad thing. But it's just what, I mean, Paul says, Paul says in Romans nine
27:28 and 10, all of Israel is not Israel and all the sons and daughters of Abraham are not
27:32 the sons and daughters of Abraham. But so he's talking about sons and daughters of
27:35 faith. However, the nation of Israel plays a significant role in in times in the redemption
27:40 of all people unto himself. But that that is it. I mean, and then God for whatever reason,
27:49 I mean, God does what he wants because he's the sovereign king of the universe. And so
27:53 he put his hand on Abraham, he put his love on Abraham, and he blessed him. And again,
28:01 was using this people who ends up being a slave people that God redeems. And they're
28:06 a perfect picture of who we are as the church. It's just a bunch of rebellious, it's not
28:11 no kids can't keep it in the right direction. And then he just relentlessly pursues his
28:16 rebellious people over and over and over again. But primarily an incubator for the Messiah.
28:21 And then a significant role, geo politically and geographically in the end times. I think
28:28 we need to do an entire ask capacitor episode just on the end time stuff. And you just have
28:32 to tell us exactly what's going to happen on all that kind of stuff. And now I go to
28:36 a church where my pastor is like famous for in time stuff as Dr. Mark Hitchcock. And so
28:40 that's like his thing he like he always talks about in time stuff. So maybe we can do that
28:44 to see how much trouble we can get in. All right, next question here, this is from Matt
28:47 from the forging table shout out to Matt. Do you did you ever find out what happened to
28:52 sunshine? Now real quick, before we get into that, whenever he sent me this message, I
28:57 was like what like from like remember the Titans like what is he talking about I completely
29:02 forgot about the gal the stripper from if the tomb is empty. And so, you know, basically
29:07 you found this gal while you're at the gym and you know, you want to bring her to church,
29:11 you did bring her to church, you kind of dress like a stripper would, you know, you know,
29:14 do that whole thing. It was just a it was a bad situation. She felt absolutely ashamed.
29:19 You were ashamed of what how she was treated when she was at the church. And it was like
29:22 a whole big kerfuffle. You know, you can read about it on in the book if the tomb is empty,
29:26 but did you ever find out what happened to her? No, because I mean, part of it is, you
29:31 know, sunshine is not her given name. So I didn't even know how to track her down and
29:36 have tried multiple times and many people have. So I don't know. And it shaped me as
29:41 a pastor as much as anything. Because I completely failed. I was a youth pastor. I was scared.
29:48 I'd gotten in trouble with the deacons because I brought a stripper to church. And their words
29:53 were this place exists to protect our children from people like that. And you would bring
29:57 that in here. And I, I really feel like today I would stand up and fight in the name of
30:04 Jesus. And I folded mine. I mean, I've just was overcome with fear and I folded. And
30:09 so now we run up, we have a stripper ministry through 1122 called Hadassas Hope. And we
30:16 have dozens and dozens of women go into the strip clubs. If you if you go in at like four
30:23 o'clock, there's a shift change. And there's not a ton of people there. So the day shift
30:28 is over and the night shift is coming. And they bring food and they just love on these
30:32 women. And it's really like, it's almost like pre evangelism, you know, they're just trying
30:38 to like build a relationship with them and build some trust with them. And then anybody
30:42 that shows interest in hearing the gospel or going to church or getting out of that lifestyle,
30:47 it's like next step, why don't you come to church with me and we'll help you there. And
30:50 so now we fund a bunch of these women as like a bridge to get out of that lifestyle. All
30:55 of that happens because I've vowed if I was ever in charge of a church that we would not
31:00 treat people the way sunshine that treated back then. But no, I have no idea where she
31:04 is.
31:05 I have this sneaking suspicion. I don't I don't have any knowledge, obviously of this, but
31:09 I have a sneaking suspicion that we're gonna figure out someday what happened to her where
31:13 she's at now kind of how that all worked out. I just, you know, something something to me
31:17 feels like that's going to work out. Now, we can need to get to the last question here.
31:20 Okay. And I know that you guys at church of 1122, you look for all kinds of ways to reach
31:26 all kinds of different people. You just talk about a stripper ministry. We've talked about,
31:30 you know, your Spanish language ministry, there's all kinds of things that you do to
31:32 reach out to people. But I also know that, you know, that eventually all the gray hairs
31:37 are going to die off and then all the Gen Xers are going to die off, then all the millennials
31:41 are going to die off and then we're going to be stuck with these Gen Z people. And you
31:44 know, hopefully there's still a church by then. But I do need to know, have you heard
31:49 about the Gen Z translation of the Bible?
31:52 Whoa. Yes. Yeah. I've, yeah, a little bit. Okay. Well, I would like to read a passage
31:59 from the Gen Z Bible. This is, you know, we might as well start with first things first.
32:04 So let's read Genesis 1 from the Gen Z translation of the Bible. And I just want to get your
32:10 overall thoughts on it. So get ready. Here's Genesis 1, 1, starting at 1, 1 from the Gen
32:16 Z Bible. God made Adam and Eve same kind different font in the image and likeness of
32:22 his own PFP and said, what is up my mammals? Go forth and vibe in the Minecraft paradise
32:28 I seeded. You may take any W except from the tree of W's and L's for then you will have
32:33 W's but also L's. While fam was living their best life, the op of ops woke up and chose
32:39 violence. He slid into Eve's DMs with the sneaky Riz and Eve let him cook though he had
32:45 not the ingredients. He said, why not the top G let you take any W's? She said, no, that's
32:51 not lore accurate. But the snake said baby girl, he's gatekeeping all them dubs. Me personally,
32:57 I would not have let that slide POV you realize you have free will. So she chose to secure
33:03 the bag of W's and L's and she ate and left crumbs and gave them to Adam. And he saw his
33:08 crush watching and said bet with Riz. When they took the L and altered their brain chemistry
33:14 and suddenly they had the Iq but divine G caught them in the 4k and said, bro, they really
33:20 look like the L and thought we wouldn't notice DW fam I got you will come in clutch. The woman
33:26 will have the chili who will solo the op of ops and said UNO reverse thus began the divine
33:34 dad lore. So I don't know if we need to get your son in here to translate what all that
33:40 was. I mean, I will say it's better than the message just right out out of the gate. I
33:45 will say that is better than the message translation of the Bible. But there now this is kind of
33:49 a joke that this is out there. However, you know how dumb people can be they will take
33:54 jokes and make it there the their theology. So is this a funny thing? Should we all just
33:58 kind of giggle and laugh? Is this kind of concerning that there are people that actually
34:02 talk this way and are purportedly speakers of the English language? What are your thoughts?
34:09 So my kids thinks that that's silly. Oh, thank God. They don't they don't they don't
34:15 think that's like, Oh, wow, somebody's trying to reach my generation because nobody actually
34:19 talks that way. And so my both of my children think that's demeaning to the word of God.
34:26 They think it's dumb. And there's also some guys, you know, some like YouTube people that
34:31 are doing Gen Z worship songs, same kind of thing. And my children are like, that's inappropriate.
34:38 And my kids aren't like, I mean, I know they're pastor kids, but I don't know that they're
34:44 just like regular kids. So the I mean, I don't know what's behind this. I don't know if it's
34:49 just a joke and parts or if somebody's actually doing it, but it seems to be demeaning the word
34:54 of God. And while I'm not, you know, I'm not like a proponent for the message, there's
35:00 a couple of things I would say positively is like an actual pastor put the message together,
35:07 trying to explain it's not a translation. And Eugene Peterson would have never said it's
35:14 a translation. He would say it's my American interpretation of what the Bible versus mean.
35:21 He would say it that way. And the purpose of it was to help people understand the Bible,
35:25 but not take it lightly. He was actually taking it very seriously. So even though the actual
35:33 words he decided to write down in certain places is not the words I would use or whatever. But
35:39 but I think I mean, you know, not that I know the mind of God, I think Eugene Peterson will
35:43 be judged in a very positive manner for his attempt to get the word of God in an understandable
35:49 way to a bunch of people, not as a replacement for a real Bible or a real Bible translation,
35:56 but as like a supplement. Okay, this claims like silliness to me, man, just silliness.
36:02 Well, that's actually the point that I think I would want to make with this because, you
36:07 know, I posted a video, some guy reading, you know, from this, it was a pastor reading
36:10 this type of thing. And the comments were just like, I can't believe this and people
36:14 were so quick to be offended. And I was like, okay, we can't lose our ability to have a
36:19 sense of humor with things. Because the guy reading it was not quoting it as this as if
36:24 it was an authoritative translation of the Bible, he was quoting it because it was ridiculous.
36:30 I think we forget that we can point at things and mock it for being ridiculous. Now, if
36:35 you do go up to a youth service of some kind, and they're like, all right, everybody turned
36:40 to first Riz 35 or something like that. It's like, okay, that's a problem. And you need
36:45 to stand up, you know, for positive doctrine and right theology and, you know, proper respect
36:51 for the word of God. That's not what this is. And so part of it's like Christians have
36:55 a sense of humor. There are things that are funny. And just like with comedians, the reason
37:00 whenever you can look at a culture to see if they're sick or not is whether or not they,
37:04 you know, crucify their, their comedians, right, their court gestures. And if you can't
37:09 make jokes, even about the sacred cows or any of those types of things, that's not indicative
37:14 of a, a very resilient culture, I could say. Yeah. Hey, where do the youth pastors listening?
37:19 Because I'm sure there's a bunch. What kids want is just an authentic, you authentically
37:27 following Jesus. The moment, because cool is over for you at about 22 years old, like
37:33 you're done. Yeah. And there's, there's nothing more pitiful than the 40 year old youth worker
37:39 trying to be cool for the 15 year old kids. That, and I just did a ministry for 15 years,
37:44 man, they can snip that out like a fart in a car. They're like, no, something's off here.
37:49 And so don't do dumb stuff to try to like connect. Just be who you are and connect. And
37:55 that's what, that's what this upcoming upcoming generation is looking for more than anything
37:59 else. It's just some adults that love Jesus. And particularly to the men, they, they need
38:04 to see some grown men growing up men that love the Lord and act like it, and then just care
38:13 about these kids, even if you don't care about any of the dumb stuff they like, because most
38:17 of the stuff my kids like is dumb. You don't have to like their dumb music and their dumb
38:22 TV shows and their dumb YouTube things. That's not the point. Love Jesus and love them. And
38:26 you can make connections and make disciples. When I remember this back in high school and
38:29 then we'll wrap up soon back in high school, you know, I, I was well liked in high school,
38:34 you know, all the, all the different things that was popular, but the thing was is I was
38:37 me in whatever circle I ran in, because I had friends that were athletes. I had friends
38:41 that were bandkids. I had friends that were metalheads. I had friends that were country
38:44 folk. And you know, I had, you know, friends of all shapes and sizes and colors, gangbangers.
38:49 There was literally a gang in our high school that they were like, Hey, Kyle, if you ever
38:51 need us, and you know what I mean? Like if you need us to fight for you, let me know.
38:54 Like, you know, holler, I mean, like the thing was is I was the same guy in every circle.
38:58 I didn't try to talk like the country guys. When I was around the country guys, I didn't
39:02 try to talk to the like the Hoover's did whenever I was around the gang bangers. I didn't try
39:05 to talk that way. I just was me. I was authentic. And the way I look at this as well, there are
39:09 a lot of parents that think Blippi is weird. So if you don't know who Blippi is, that means
39:14 you don't have a kid that's below the age of five. But Blippi is this YouTube channel.
39:17 It's this guy. And he wears, you know, this blue shirt and these orange suspenders and
39:21 this dopey hat and all that. And the thing about it, this is an adult male that's acting
39:26 like a child. And that is his appeal to children is like, Oh, everything's and goofy and blah,
39:32 blah, blah. And always stripping over himself and doing these funny dances. But can we go
39:36 back to a time when there's someone like Mr. Rogers, Mr. Rogers appealed to children without
39:43 acting like a child. And we are in this time where we are like coddling our children by
39:48 pretending to be like them. You know, you have these women that are far past their best
39:52 years or or men as well. They're trying to dress like their children. They're trying
39:57 to act like their children trying to use that language. And it's like, dude, you're you're
40:01 not doing what you think you're doing like you're you're putting sparkly jeans on a pile
40:05 of diarrhea. That's essentially what you're trying to do right now. So it's like, just
40:09 be an adult. It when you get gray hair embrace the gray hair, right? Whenever you whenever
40:14 you do all these different things, just let it happen because authenticity is what will
40:18 speak to your child and you want to model authenticity. Cause you don't want them to later be seeking
40:23 something that's not real either. Can you co sign that?
40:26 Hey, 100% I just laugh because not too long ago I had a person in Christian ministry that's
40:36 more like in the church growth kind of movement world, you know, whatever. But I get invited
40:39 to speak at all those things because we have a big church and he was talking about my look
40:43 or my beard. And he was like, you know, if you if you colored that, you know, you can
40:49 look younger. And I was like, why in the world would I want to look like a group of people
40:54 didn't know why I want to emulate? Right. What are you talking about? I was like, I get
40:59 it. This is what I look like because I'm a grown man and I embrace the fact that I'm
41:03 a grown man. And you know, there's there's another word I want to throw in there so bad,
41:07 but I'm going to choose not to right now. But that's, I know you could on your podcast,
41:11 but I'm just going to try to do it. I'll do it later. I'll do it later on. But the thing
41:15 is it part of it. I mean, it's like if I have a beard, this is what it looks like. Like,
41:19 what do you mean? Why in the world are you trying to mimic a group of people that you're
41:24 not trying to emulate? In fact, it's supposed to be the other way. I'm trying to set for
41:28 them an example. Life loves speech and purity, not emulate what they're doing. And what's
41:32 crazy is I'm old and I'm 50. So what it's kind of like down the middle right now. And man,
41:39 we got old people in my church, which is incredible. And we've got thousands and thousands
41:45 of 18 to 25 year olds just lining up not to get fashion advice for me. Cause I just wear
41:51 the same thing on time, but they show up with their Bibles. And listen, it's easy to crap
41:57 on this upcoming generation. And on the whole, it's pretty right to crap on it. Cause it's
42:03 pretty pitiful. You know, but dude, there is a segment of like Gen Z kids with Bibles
42:11 open journals out taking notes, taking, I mean, they've rejected a whole lot of things that
42:17 this world has to offer. And they are following after Jesus hard, like really, really legitimately
42:22 hard. And so I want to be that kind of example for them, not try to look like or act like
42:28 or talk like them. And they'll, they lean into that. They're looking for fathers. That's
42:33 what they're looking for.
42:34 One, here's the thing guys, and we don't have time to really extrapolate all this out. We
42:38 as a culture worship at the altar of youth. And so if you're, if you're a woman, you
42:44 will get all kinds of different augmentations and different things to look younger. And
42:49 then we have men doing the same thing. Now men. Now it's TRT. And it's, you know, human
42:54 growth hormone and its hair plugs and so on. And if that's your thing, I don't, I don't
42:59 care. I ultimately don't really care because if you want to look a certain way, if you
43:01 want to, you know, keep doing the comb over thing as opposed to just bicking your hair,
43:05 whatever it's, it's your look, right? But at the same time, it's like, I need to explore
43:09 why you are doing that. Like why exactly? And I've had this discussion with my wife because
43:13 we know a lot of gals. Well, she knows a lot of gals because she's in professional photography
43:17 that have had, you know, different things done and different work things done. Some
43:21 of them have gotten bad car accidents and needed to fix themselves. Some of them had
43:25 double mastectomies because, you know, they had, they had cancer. And some of them just
43:30 want to want people to look at them the same way that they did when they were 18 in a smoke
43:35 show as a freshman in college. And it's like, you have to look at why am I doing this. So
43:39 eventually, because I'm 37, eventually I will probably start looking at different things
43:43 that I can take to help recover with my body and keep my body young and working well into
43:50 my older age. Okay. But I'm not doing that. So that, like, you know, girls in college,
43:56 well, look at me as I'm walking by at Cudoba and be like, Oh my gosh, look at that old.
44:00 Look at that guy that should be old, but he's not old. Like I don't want that. Like I want
44:03 people to look at me like you earn gray hair guys. Like I, it's not a thing to be plucked.
44:08 It's a thing to be embraced. Like just you earn that with years and hopefully with years
44:13 comes wisdom and wisdom is a gift, right? Like you can be intellectually strong and not
44:19 have wisdom. But if you're seeking after wisdom and seeking after the word, God is like you're
44:23 not going to be worried as much about how your skin looks and, you know, the color of your
44:27 hair. But hey, that's me. And I know I'm a little bit of a, you know, of a throwback
44:31 in terms of my opinion on that.
44:33 Not man, you're right on. I mean, it sounds like you're reading the message version of
44:38 the Proverbs. I mean, that's basically what the old man in Proverbs is saying. Yeah,
44:42 it doesn't like actual that's the most offensive thing I think you've said to me in our entire
44:47 relationship, you basically said what I just said sounded like the message. How freaking
44:51 dare you? Well, it does. That's the whole point of the message was it's not like normal
44:55 speak, but that was it. That is that's what I mean, the, in order to understand the Proverbs,
45:01 it starts this way. I'm an old guy teaching my son some stuff, pay attention, write this
45:06 down. And that's just what you were saying. And so I mean, even look at our relationship,
45:09 I'm quite a bit, I mean, whatever, 13 years old or new and, and I have earned these gray
45:16 hairs, your own, your way, you're, I mean, there's a bunch of young guys that are listening
45:21 to this. And so it's, it's, it's very, it's very much what Paul told Timothy and Titus,
45:27 you know, old men find some middle aged guys to teach some young guys to raise up a new
45:31 generation. And so that's what we need to be about. That's what we'll do. And we'll continue
45:35 to do that here on this show before we let you go. Do you got anything else you need to
45:38 get off your chest, Joby? No, sir. I appreciate you. See you next time. Yes, sir. Thank you
45:43 guys so much for listening to this episode. Wherever you're listening to this, please
45:46 subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five star review. If you want to come speak live
45:50 at your event or on your podcast to shoot me an email to info@undonton.life. That's
45:55 I N F O at undonton.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our
46:00 website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming
46:03 your way. Just go to www dot undaunted dot life. And also we want to thank the band Holy Name
46:09 for allowing us to use their music for our content. The music on this podcast is our
46:12 song Perpetua, which is off their self titled debut album on Face Down Records. The links
46:17 are in the description. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness,
46:23 keep forging spiritual mental and physical resilience, keep seeking the lion of Judah.
46:42 [BLANK_AUDIO]
Key quotes
2
Kyle Thompson
You earn gray hair guys. It's not a thing to be plucked. It's a thing to be embraced.
Joby Martin
What kids want is just an authentic you, authentically following Jesus.
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