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0:50
This is Undaunted Life Man's podcast.
0:53
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
0:55
Let's get into it.
0:56
All right.
0:57
Joby Martin, you're back.
0:58
I would say you look better than ever.
0:59
But you just look the same.
1:00
You're very, very consistent.
1:01
The beard's always nice and well cropped and every now and then you do rock our hat.
1:06
So this is good.
1:07
This is good news.
1:08
Yeah, I kind of have a uniform.
1:09
I actually have to think about what I wear, you know, on the weekend.
1:13
So I don't think about what I wear during the week or where the black t-shirt jeans,
1:17
if it's cold enough, a jacket.
1:19
That's what people wonder.
1:20
Like why do you wear a black t-shirt?
1:21
You know, every time you do a podcast, every time you present, it's because I don't want
1:25
to have to think about it.
1:26
And so for you, obviously, if you wear the same thing for every sermon, it'd be a little
1:29
weird.
1:30
But I try not to be distracting the people because I'm already distracting because I'm
1:33
like a lunatic and I look like this with my face.
1:36
And so it's like, hey, if I wear black jeans and a black shirt, you can't, you know, you
1:39
won't see my sweat and you can't make fun of my clothing.
1:42
So we're going to launch right into our donor questions today.
1:46
So guys, again, if you want to be a part of the ask a pastor podcast, if you want to get
1:50
your questions added to the bank, you have to be a monthly donor to Undaunted Life again.
1:54
We are so, so thankful for a monthly donor.
1:56
So let's get into our first question here.
1:57
And this one's from Ben, what are the biblical defenses for credo baptism and pedo baptism
2:03
and the ways each refutes, refutes the other?
2:06
So let's do some definitional work from the beginning.
2:08
What's the difference between credo baptism and pedo baptism, then we'll launch in.
2:13
Credo baptism is baptism as a believer after you have created that you believe in Jesus,
2:19
pedo means like kids, so it's child baptism, there is not one evidence in all of the Bible
2:26
of a baby being baptized, period.
2:29
It is repent and be baptized.
2:33
And actually, I think the only reason that Protestants still do this is just left over
2:37
from the Roman Catholic Church and they didn't have the guts.
2:40
You know, you can't change everything during the great Reformation.
2:43
So they kind of hung on to this.
2:45
And then, especially the Presbyterian is built a theology around it instead of the practice
2:50
coming out of theology.
2:52
So every single time in the book of Acts, the Bible says that belief preceded baptism.
2:58
Now what the pedo baptism will say is, yeah, but you know, a couple of people, the jailer,
3:04
he and his whole household were baptized.
3:08
Well my whole household has been baptized too, but my children were 12 and 10 when they got
3:13
baptized or something like that.
3:14
So that's kind of like an argument from silence.
3:18
There is no place in the Scripture.
3:20
So what a lot of people are trying to do is they're trying to equate Old Testament circumcision
3:26
with New Testament baptism and saying that that is the mark of a covenant that God has
3:32
with his people.
3:34
And so you got to do some serious hermeneutical gymnastics to make that sort of connection.
3:41
Everywhere in the New Testament, baptism is an outward invisible symbol of a thing that
3:47
has already happened and that is the salvation and regeneration of the person that is declaring
3:54
that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior.
3:56
So I'm assuming that you would give the same advice to people as kind of what I did.
4:00
So I remember being in like fifth or sixth grade, we're driving home from church.
4:03
This was like that stretch of like three months where my mom like drug us to church.
4:08
And on the way home, one of the Sunday, she's like, well, do you think you want to get baptized
4:11
here soon?
4:12
And I was like, at the time, again, being a little kid, I thought you had to get baptized
4:16
multiple times through your life because my grandmother right before she passed, she
4:20
was baptized.
4:21
And I was like, okay.
4:22
So you have sin all over you.
4:23
And then if you could like get dunked like really close to when you're going to die, you
4:27
don't have as much sin on you.
4:28
So God will let you in.
4:29
So I got baptized like, you know, as a fifth grader and then whenever I became a Christian
4:33
or whenever God revealed that he showed me or whatever the language I'm supposed to use
4:37
is like in 10th grade, I got baptized then as well.
4:40
So if you were baptized as a kid or just, you know, sprinkled and dunked for, you know,
4:44
a reason that you didn't even understand, you would suggest getting baptized again when
4:48
you've actually made a declaration of faith.
4:51
Yes, for sure.
4:52
Because it is that's exactly what it is.
4:54
And for all of you that grew up in traditions where your parents had you baptized as a child,
5:02
you're not, you're not trying to undo what they did.
5:07
You're actually confirming what they were praying for.
5:10
Like, what they were hoping and praying for is that one day that you would personally
5:13
know Jesus as your Lord and Savior.
5:16
And so I would highly suggest that even if like you did, you know, you were, you weren't
5:22
a baby, but you were just kind of going with the flow because that's what everybody else
5:26
at church was doing.
5:27
And in the book of Acts, you know, they run into a group of guys that had the baptism of
5:32
John, but not the baptism of Jesus.
5:35
And so they repaptize those guys because they were like, do you know the Holy Spirit?
5:39
And they're like, who is he?
5:40
I've never heard of this Holy Spirit.
5:41
They're like, whoa, what are you talking about?
5:43
And they go, well, we were baptized as the baptism of John that it's a, it's kind of
5:47
a similar event.
5:49
Like we were just doing the best we know with what we had, but now we have the revelation
5:53
of Jesus.
5:54
And so we want to do what he commanded in Matthew chapter 28 and that's make disciples
6:00
and then be baptized.
6:01
Right.
6:02
And this isn't going to be the baptism episode because we got a lot more ground to cover,
6:05
but then you, you, there are also denom, well, talk about this just briefly, Joby.
6:09
There are denominations like my wife grew up in this one, small town church of Christ,
6:13
where if you weren't baptized, you didn't go to heaven.
6:16
Like baptism was essential for your name to be written in the Lamb's book of life.
6:22
And if you bring up the thief on the cross, they, they've got kind of a, you know, weird
6:26
hermeneutic for why they can explain that one away, but like you would say, so that baptism
6:31
is just the first thing that we are called to do basically to be like to show a public
6:37
declaration of this new faith, but it's not a requirement in order to go to heaven.
6:42
It's a work of obedience.
6:43
So Ephesians two will let us know that we're saved by grace through faith and not by works.
6:48
And the act of baptism is a work of obedience.
6:51
So you should get baptized after you profess Christ as your savior, but you should do a
6:57
lot of things after you profess Christ.
6:59
Yeah.
7:00
None of those works are going to save you or unsave you because you can't get unsaved.
7:04
All right.
7:05
Very good.
7:06
Well, we'll move on to the next donor question.
7:07
It's a really smart question because it's coming from me.
7:09
You're truly because I like to sneak my own questions in here, but a lot of people have
7:14
asked this.
7:15
So I'm kind of like representing them with my question.
7:17
I'm just going to flow on it.
7:18
So there are a lot of people that run into this whenever they're having discussions with
7:21
non-Christians, but they're like, how can we trust the Bible and then Christians will
7:25
just say things like, well, the Bible says the Bible is true.
7:29
Or how do, hey, how do we know that the Bible is God breathed?
7:32
How do we know that these men didn't just like make mistakes that they were fallible,
7:35
so they wrote things down wrong and people will say, Oh, because the Bible's God breathed
7:39
and they're like, well, where do you find that?
7:40
Oh, it's in the Bible.
7:42
We would never accept that with anything else in this world.
7:45
Like, if we were reading a science textbook, right, you know, if you're a young earth person,
7:49
you're reading this textbook that says, Hey, it's, it's this many years old.
7:52
And then someone said, well, how can you prove that?
7:53
They're like, well, it's here in this book.
7:55
And this book was written by people that I know like and trust.
7:57
And so why in the world wouldn't you believe it?
7:59
It's in this book.
8:00
The book says it's true.
8:01
And so it becomes a circular problem.
8:03
So we're approaching this, not from a biblical standpoint, but we're approaching this from
8:06
a philosophical, logical standpoint.
8:09
How in the world do we make that argument work?
8:11
Well, you got to stay with the right argument.
8:14
Like if you're talking to a non Christian, the argument you're trying to win is that
8:20
Jesus died on the cross for their sins and was resurrected again on the third day.
8:24
Okay.
8:26
And what oftentimes what happens is people try to get into an infallibility of the scripture
8:30
argument.
8:31
It's the wrong argument.
8:32
Now, don't hear me say anything I'm not saying.
8:35
I believe that it's all T.S. news to us, that it's all God breathed that, you know, I'm
8:39
a high, high, high, high view of the Bible.
8:42
And if I don't have a high enough view, it's because I don't know that there is another
8:45
one that exists.
8:47
However, if I'm sitting on the airplane and somebody is like, well, how can I believe
8:50
the Bible?
8:51
I'm like, I don't know.
8:53
Let's just say everything, all of your criticisms, criticisms that are legitimate are legitimate.
8:59
But, but historically, here are some things I know.
9:04
And I do think you need to be at least well enough equipped to know that the eyewitnesses
9:09
wrote this during their lifetime, that most of the thing, some of the kind of like criticism
9:15
that you hear in your freshman English class are pretty much made up and have been debunked
9:19
by every legitimate historian.
9:22
So nobody actually, no, no legitimate historians believe that kind of biblical criticism like
9:27
Matthew didn't write Matthew and John didn't write John and Constantine just added whatever
9:31
he wanted to in 300.
9:33
Since we got the Dead Sea Scrolls, nobody, no historians believe those things.
9:37
But just look at some of the facts.
9:39
If you were writing a story about you, would you put your faults in there like that?
9:46
The place that you think it, it contradicts itself.
9:50
Well, if this was a strategized document of propaganda, why in the world would that be
9:56
in there?
9:57
Some of those kind of things I would do everything you can to point people to let's talk about
10:03
the resurrection.
10:05
Did you, do you think like here's all the evidence that Jesus Christ actually lived, died and
10:11
was resurrected from the grave?
10:14
What are you going to do about that?
10:16
Because what you're trying to do is share the gospel.
10:19
Now again, it comes from the scriptures, but I think it's the wrong argument.
10:22
This is, you and I had this discussion before about the, when Andy Sandy says the un-hitched
10:27
thing.
10:28
And when you and I were trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, this is what we were
10:32
saying.
10:33
Right.
10:34
It starts with the empty tune.
10:35
So don't try to attach salvation to a literal Noah's Ark or not.
10:40
It's just a different conversation.
10:42
I think it's an important conversation.
10:44
You know, I think it's literal because Jesus thought it was literal.
10:47
However, if you're, wherever, chairing your faith with somebody, then stay focused on
10:53
the actual point, which is the life, death and resurrection of Jesus.
10:57
Okay.
10:58
So as a follow up on that, this always happens.
11:00
I have all these questions I want to get to and then like it comes up with other stuff.
11:04
So you and I have had some discussions privately about deconstruction and you know, you really
11:08
like the interview.
11:09
I did with Tim Barnett and Lisa Childers and their book and all those types of things.
11:12
So I'm with you.
11:13
If I'm coming into a discussion and someone's like, well, hey, what about dinosaurs?
11:16
Hey, did Jonah really live in the belly of the well?
11:18
Hey, well, there's no archeological evidence that this people group ever lived lived in
11:22
this area.
11:23
I try to not just dismiss those things.
11:25
I try to address them in a way that I can, but I do try to bring it back to the gospel.
11:28
So let's just play this out.
11:30
So let's say I do provide a gospel presentation and in that moment, their eyes are opened.
11:34
They make the decision or the decision is made for them before life and memoriam or whatever.
11:39
And then they decide to follow Christ.
11:42
Does that not then potentially lead to future deconstruction for this person because initially
11:48
they were given the gospel, which is the most important thing that they can be given.
11:52
But then their questions are still unanswered.
11:55
Maybe they look for their questions in all the wrong places.
11:57
They go to TikTok theologians and, you know, random turds in random churches that basically
12:02
lead them down the road to deconstruction.
12:03
You know what I mean?
12:04
Yeah.
12:05
No, I think I think the foundation then of their faith is actually more solid that their
12:10
foundation is a belief in a resurrected Christ.
12:15
So then the next step of discipleship is so what did Jesus think about these questions
12:20
you're asking?
12:21
Many of them are actually answered like you can.
12:25
It's a great place to start on the authority of the word of God is the one that I just put
12:30
my trust in as my Lord and savior.
12:32
What did he think about the authority of the word of God?
12:35
That's a great place to start because he talks specifically about things like male and
12:40
female and marriage and Jonah and, you know, and then there's some other things he doesn't
12:44
talk about, but it's a great place to start.
12:46
And then I, you know, we don't ever want to end with just the, oh, they prayed to receive
12:51
Christ.
12:52
Cool.
12:53
See in heaven, but steps of discipleship are for sure going to be diving in the words
12:57
so that you can be rooted in it.
12:59
Hey, guys.
13:00
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14:55
When I think also, and I love when when Vodibokum kind of helped me understand this where
14:58
it's like, hey, there's no such thing as a red letter in the Bible, right?
15:02
Because if God is part of, if Jesus is part of the triune God, then all the letters are
15:08
read.
15:09
And you know, John 1-1, in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the
15:12
Word was God.
15:13
And so it's like, okay, if we can go back to that, you know, we don't have to necessarily
15:16
talk about the fact that Jesus referred to Jonah and it seemed like he was referring
15:20
to it as a true story and not mytho history, but we can go back to the actual source there
15:25
and the source is Jesus ultimately.
15:27
All right, next question here, this is from a donor named Dave.
15:29
I see very little biblical evidence for the rapture, not that I am against it.
15:33
It just isn't very clearly stated, yet it's quite a popular doctrine.
15:37
I know it is not a part of our essential faith.
15:39
And as someone said, the main things are the plain things and God uses, and God does use
15:45
repetition for the most meaningful doctrines fear.
15:47
Not God loves you, Jesus died for our sins, et cetera.
15:51
So how did the doctrine of the rapture become a thing?
15:55
The word rapture is a pretty recent, you know, like less than 200 year old kind of
15:59
word.
16:00
It really just all comes down to timing.
16:04
The Bible does say that we as believers will be caught up in the air when Jesus returns.
16:10
Now where the divide is, there's a bunch of Bible believing Jesus loving Orthodox Christians
16:16
that are either pre-millennial, post-millennial or amillennial.
16:22
And I think it's a shame to divide over those things.
16:26
There is a really great YouTube video, it's probably an hour long.
16:31
I think it's called a night of eschatology.
16:34
That's a good one to check out.
16:36
It's got John Piper, Sam Storms, some Southern Baptist professor who's not as famous as anybody
16:42
else on there, and Doug Wilson, okay?
16:47
And it's a really great example of four different men that all love Jesus and love one another,
16:53
and nobody's questioning anybody's salvation.
16:57
And some of them believe in like a left behind type rapture, and some of them don't based
17:04
on whether they're amillennial, post-millennial, or pre-millennial.
17:08
And that language has to come, has to do with when do you think the thousand year reign happens,
17:14
and is that thousand year reign, a literal reign, or not a literal reign?
17:19
And so, all right, here's a little bit of a, it's a cop-out, but it matters.
17:24
When people ask me that question, I say, well, I'm a pan-millennial, so what does that mean?
17:28
I'm like, it's all going to pan out on the end, but in Matthew 24, the disciples asked
17:34
Jesus specifically about the end of the world, because Jesus says, hey man, the whole temple
17:40
gets torn down three days later, it'll be built back.
17:42
And they're like, what's the end of the world going to be like?
17:44
All of Matthew 24, he gives very specific signs and wonders, and the abomination of
17:49
desolation, and rumors of war, and earthquakes, and all this stuff, you know?
17:53
And I think this is a little bit of speculation, but I think the disciples are like glazed
17:57
over.
17:58
Like, what are you talking about?
17:59
Yeah, yeah.
18:00
Like the preachers, when they have the maps, and they're like, the Newark, New York times,
18:03
and they're like, see, this one happened, and they're like, what are you talking about?
18:06
Then Jesus is like, all right, time out, hold on.
18:10
People get concerned about the win, but get real concerned about the who.
18:14
And then Jesus says, I'm not even sure, only my father knows.
18:18
And then he tells three stories.
18:20
So how do you get ready for the end of times?
18:22
Just the parable of the virgins, don't miss the party.
18:25
Get saved.
18:26
And then the party starts, bro, invitation time's over.
18:29
And if you're on the outside, you're screwed, okay, parable of the talents is don't waste
18:33
your life.
18:34
Leverage everything the Lord has given you to build his kingdom.
18:37
And then the parable of the sheep and goats.
18:39
This is kind of like all of the book of James jammed into one story.
18:43
If you have, if you actually have faith, your life ought to look like it and you should
18:46
care for the least of these.
18:48
And that is his answer as Jesus's answer to the end of times questions.
18:55
So that's where I am.
19:00
And then another thing that I don't think is a terrible thing to do.
19:03
This is just kind of a theology hack.
19:06
So I think it's okay to find a person or a camp that you are really sure that you believe
19:16
what they believe about 99% of the things.
19:20
And then when you're a little confused on some stuff, it's not the worst thing to attach
19:23
yourself to that as you inform yourself on what the Bible says about it.
19:28
Okay.
19:29
Cause that kind of gives you a little bit of a Rosetta stone or something like it kind
19:32
of helps you like focus in a particular direction. And by the way, I did find that YouTube videos
19:36
on the desiring God YouTube page is called an evening and eschatology, premenolinealism.
19:41
I'm a little, I'm just not even going to try. Here we go. No, I'm actually going to do
19:45
it.
19:46
Pre-millennialism, I'm millennialism, post-millennialism, nailed it. All right.
19:50
And I will put that in the show notes so you guys can check that out. And it's actually
19:52
two hours long. And so for me, like I've been asked that are, you know, pre-mail, on-mail,
19:57
post-mail, whatever. And my answer is I just don't care. I care about it about as much as
20:01
I care about young earth versus older. It's like, if you want to nerd out and go fully
20:05
down the rabbit hole, I'm all for it. Go for it. Don't send me a follow up email because
20:10
I won't read it. I don't care. But it's just one of those things where it's, it's neat.
20:14
It's kind of neat to think about, but it was like, it's just of all the things to worry
20:17
about. That's just not one that I'm super duper worried about because we can't know
20:21
for sure. We can make compelling arguments, but we can't know for sure.
20:25
What I'm talking about, what's helpful about that is, what you do want to make sure you
20:31
do on theological ideas like this, there are some things that get outside of what would
20:38
be considered orthodoxy and gets into heresy. And you don't, when we, me and you, we don't
20:43
want to be like, well, that doesn't matter. So I can believe whatever. And then you're
20:47
like, well, the implication of that belief is modalism, which is a heresy that was, you
20:53
know what I mean? So same thing with like creation stuff in Driscoll's book, which again,
20:59
I don't know if we're supposed to still mention him, but his book, I know, I only said that
21:03
because you say that all the time in his book doctrine on, on the doctrine of creation.
21:08
What I loved about it is in a whole chapter, he basically said, I'm going to mess up the
21:13
details, but he probably, he said there's something like seven or eight things the church
21:17
has historically believed. And here's the five or six of them that I would say are orthodox
21:23
and you could believe young earth or older or a gap theory or, you know, all the different
21:28
things. And then here are the things that have implications on things like original
21:31
sin that fall outside of orthodox belief.
21:36
All right. So if you hear me typing, it sounds like artillery's going off because I have an
21:40
old school keyboard because I love it. Mac keyboards are the worst, but the doctrine book
21:44
by Mark Driscoll, I will go ahead and throw that here in the show as well. So you guys
21:47
can check that out. But let's get to the next question here. This is from Zach. And this
21:50
is the Zach of the forging table fame. So here's one from the forging table. How can
21:55
a person discern God's will in their lives? How should we think about our role and the
22:00
need to be proactive while balancing the need to be patient and trusting first everywhere
22:07
in the Bible that says this is the will of God start doing that. So in the Solonians,
22:12
it says, this is God's will. And what does it say? It's like be grateful, pray continually
22:17
and love one another. All right. We know Matthew 28 is God's will. So be about the things that
22:24
you absolutely know is God's general will for every believer. Then in the meantime, as
22:34
you are on the go, then you trust the nudges and then I, this is very simplified theology.
22:41
You just got to pray, guess and go. I mean, I don't, you know, I don't think you talk
22:46
about this sometimes. You're like, you're not going to find the answer of the Bible
22:49
of what college to go to. It's just not going to say it, you know. Yeah. But so what you
22:53
do is you pray. I mean, think about it. You got to pray to the point where you're like,
22:58
all right, Lord, if I go in the wrong direction between these choices that I have in my life,
23:04
I'm going to trust that if I choose wrong, you're going to send a big fish to swallow
23:08
me up and get me back on track. I mean, the disciples replaced the twelfth disciple or
23:14
apostle. They did their homework. So they had qualifications. They narrowed it down to
23:20
two dudes. Then they cast lots. They really prayed over it to the point where they believe
23:25
they could roll the dice and God would prevail. That's how you know the will of God. But again,
23:31
I don't, it's got to line up with the scripture, get very, very serious about doing the things
23:37
that you know that he's called all of us to do. Like share our faith, pray, be generous,
23:44
be a part of a church, make disciples. This is the will of God for your life. Now how that
23:49
happens, just go, man. Just go. The worst thing I see is people waiting and they're not doing
23:56
anything as they're just like waiting on some revelation about what specifically to do.
24:02
When I've described it to people this way, I'm like, well, look, dude, there's God's
24:05
perfect will for you and then there's God's realized will. And so it's like, if you're
24:09
trying to choose between college A and college B and you were supposed to go to A and you
24:13
go to B instead, it's like, do you think that God can't use you? Like, you know, it was
24:16
kind of like the question I think I answered in the AMA. It was like a 20 year old that
24:20
was like super nervous about the, the track that he was going to go down in his career
24:25
and he's 20. And I was like, bro, I was out of school for 10 years and I had 11 different
24:29
jobs in 10 years, right? And now I'm freaking yelling into a microphone for a living like
24:35
I you can't go to school for that. But you're a good, you're a good example, just because
24:38
I know a little bit of your story. But God's will for your life as a husband is to provide
24:45
and protect for his wife. And so you're still in those card things that that does not seem
24:50
like is pressing the kingdom forward. But that's not the point. The point is we know
24:55
what the Bible says about loving and the Bible says, if you didn't have that job and
25:00
not take care of your wife, you're worse than an unbeliever. Well, while you're doing what
25:05
the Bible says a husband does in somewhere in that the Lord begins to get you in the spot
25:10
that he wants you right now. So yeah, so for those of you that don't know the reference
25:14
that he's making for a stretch after college, I was selling coupon book store to door and
25:19
yes, it sounds as awful as as it sounds. It was as awful as it sounds. But at that time,
25:24
I was newly married and I needed to prove to my wife that I was going to do whatever it
25:27
took to take care of her so that we could keep our 500 square foot, you know, shotgun style
25:32
duplex that we were living in at the time. Yeah, we were rolling in it, baby. We were
25:35
fancy from the beginning. So yeah, like you do what you can. But I wasn't put on this
25:39
planet to sell, you know, coupon books for, you know, spas. So it just kind of worked
25:43
out that way. All right, let's go to the next one here. This is from a lady listener. We
25:46
always love our lady listeners, even though you are the minority here, but we absolutely
25:49
love you guys. So this is from Missy. Can you describe in layman's terms, the fullness
25:54
of why Israel will always be God's chosen people? I know in a nutshell why, but I always
26:00
seem to be short on a full understanding of why, like why does there have to be a chosen
26:05
people? Well, let's go get dicey. So according to Romans nine and 10, God's chosen people
26:15
shifts because the way Paul describes the blessing through Abraham would be those who
26:22
have faith. However, geographically, there is a Israel, the nation of Israel, it will
26:33
play a very significant role in all of these end times things that we're talking about.
26:39
Like when Jesus returns, that's where he's going. He's going to plant his feet on the
26:43
Mount of Olives in Israel and split that mountain in half. And he's going to walk through the
26:49
gate to the temple mount. These things are going to happen. So God established a people
26:59
to be a light to the world and a city on a hill. And out of that people, it was the incubator
27:06
for the Messiah who was to come. But now all believers are grafted into, I guess you could
27:15
call it like spiritual Israel. Now, what people will say is all that's just replacement theology
27:20
as if that's a bad thing. But it's just what, I mean, Paul says, Paul says in Romans nine
27:28
and 10, all of Israel is not Israel and all the sons and daughters of Abraham are not
27:32
the sons and daughters of Abraham. But so he's talking about sons and daughters of
27:35
faith. However, the nation of Israel plays a significant role in in times in the redemption
27:40
of all people unto himself. But that that is it. I mean, and then God for whatever reason,
27:49
I mean, God does what he wants because he's the sovereign king of the universe. And so
27:53
he put his hand on Abraham, he put his love on Abraham, and he blessed him. And again,
28:01
was using this people who ends up being a slave people that God redeems. And they're
28:06
a perfect picture of who we are as the church. It's just a bunch of rebellious, it's not
28:11
no kids can't keep it in the right direction. And then he just relentlessly pursues his
28:16
rebellious people over and over and over again. But primarily an incubator for the Messiah.
28:21
And then a significant role, geo politically and geographically in the end times. I think
28:28
we need to do an entire ask capacitor episode just on the end time stuff. And you just have
28:32
to tell us exactly what's going to happen on all that kind of stuff. And now I go to
28:36
a church where my pastor is like famous for in time stuff as Dr. Mark Hitchcock. And so
28:40
that's like his thing he like he always talks about in time stuff. So maybe we can do that
28:44
to see how much trouble we can get in. All right, next question here, this is from Matt
28:47
from the forging table shout out to Matt. Do you did you ever find out what happened to
28:52
sunshine? Now real quick, before we get into that, whenever he sent me this message, I
28:57
was like what like from like remember the Titans like what is he talking about I completely
29:02
forgot about the gal the stripper from if the tomb is empty. And so, you know, basically
29:07
you found this gal while you're at the gym and you know, you want to bring her to church,
29:11
you did bring her to church, you kind of dress like a stripper would, you know, you know,
29:14
do that whole thing. It was just a it was a bad situation. She felt absolutely ashamed.
29:19
You were ashamed of what how she was treated when she was at the church. And it was like
29:22
a whole big kerfuffle. You know, you can read about it on in the book if the tomb is empty,
29:26
but did you ever find out what happened to her? No, because I mean, part of it is, you
29:31
know, sunshine is not her given name. So I didn't even know how to track her down and
29:36
have tried multiple times and many people have. So I don't know. And it shaped me as
29:41
a pastor as much as anything. Because I completely failed. I was a youth pastor. I was scared.
29:48
I'd gotten in trouble with the deacons because I brought a stripper to church. And their words
29:53
were this place exists to protect our children from people like that. And you would bring
29:57
that in here. And I, I really feel like today I would stand up and fight in the name of
30:04
Jesus. And I folded mine. I mean, I've just was overcome with fear and I folded. And
30:09
so now we run up, we have a stripper ministry through 1122 called Hadassas Hope. And we
30:16
have dozens and dozens of women go into the strip clubs. If you if you go in at like four
30:23
o'clock, there's a shift change. And there's not a ton of people there. So the day shift
30:28
is over and the night shift is coming. And they bring food and they just love on these
30:32
women. And it's really like, it's almost like pre evangelism, you know, they're just trying
30:38
to like build a relationship with them and build some trust with them. And then anybody
30:42
that shows interest in hearing the gospel or going to church or getting out of that lifestyle,
30:47
it's like next step, why don't you come to church with me and we'll help you there. And
30:50
so now we fund a bunch of these women as like a bridge to get out of that lifestyle. All
30:55
of that happens because I've vowed if I was ever in charge of a church that we would not
31:00
treat people the way sunshine that treated back then. But no, I have no idea where she
31:04
is.
31:05
I have this sneaking suspicion. I don't I don't have any knowledge, obviously of this, but
31:09
I have a sneaking suspicion that we're gonna figure out someday what happened to her where
31:13
she's at now kind of how that all worked out. I just, you know, something something to me
31:17
feels like that's going to work out. Now, we can need to get to the last question here.
31:20
Okay. And I know that you guys at church of 1122, you look for all kinds of ways to reach
31:26
all kinds of different people. You just talk about a stripper ministry. We've talked about,
31:30
you know, your Spanish language ministry, there's all kinds of things that you do to
31:32
reach out to people. But I also know that, you know, that eventually all the gray hairs
31:37
are going to die off and then all the Gen Xers are going to die off, then all the millennials
31:41
are going to die off and then we're going to be stuck with these Gen Z people. And you
31:44
know, hopefully there's still a church by then. But I do need to know, have you heard
31:49
about the Gen Z translation of the Bible?
31:52
Whoa. Yes. Yeah. I've, yeah, a little bit. Okay. Well, I would like to read a passage
31:59
from the Gen Z Bible. This is, you know, we might as well start with first things first.
32:04
So let's read Genesis 1 from the Gen Z translation of the Bible. And I just want to get your
32:10
overall thoughts on it. So get ready. Here's Genesis 1, 1, starting at 1, 1 from the Gen
32:16
Z Bible. God made Adam and Eve same kind different font in the image and likeness of
32:22
his own PFP and said, what is up my mammals? Go forth and vibe in the Minecraft paradise
32:28
I seeded. You may take any W except from the tree of W's and L's for then you will have
32:33
W's but also L's. While fam was living their best life, the op of ops woke up and chose
32:39
violence. He slid into Eve's DMs with the sneaky Riz and Eve let him cook though he had
32:45
not the ingredients. He said, why not the top G let you take any W's? She said, no, that's
32:51
not lore accurate. But the snake said baby girl, he's gatekeeping all them dubs. Me personally,
32:57
I would not have let that slide POV you realize you have free will. So she chose to secure
33:03
the bag of W's and L's and she ate and left crumbs and gave them to Adam. And he saw his
33:08
crush watching and said bet with Riz. When they took the L and altered their brain chemistry
33:14
and suddenly they had the Iq but divine G caught them in the 4k and said, bro, they really
33:20
look like the L and thought we wouldn't notice DW fam I got you will come in clutch. The woman
33:26
will have the chili who will solo the op of ops and said UNO reverse thus began the divine
33:34
dad lore. So I don't know if we need to get your son in here to translate what all that
33:40
was. I mean, I will say it's better than the message just right out out of the gate. I
33:45
will say that is better than the message translation of the Bible. But there now this is kind of
33:49
a joke that this is out there. However, you know how dumb people can be they will take
33:54
jokes and make it there the their theology. So is this a funny thing? Should we all just
33:58
kind of giggle and laugh? Is this kind of concerning that there are people that actually
34:02
talk this way and are purportedly speakers of the English language? What are your thoughts?
34:09
So my kids thinks that that's silly. Oh, thank God. They don't they don't they don't
34:15
think that's like, Oh, wow, somebody's trying to reach my generation because nobody actually
34:19
talks that way. And so my both of my children think that's demeaning to the word of God.
34:26
They think it's dumb. And there's also some guys, you know, some like YouTube people that
34:31
are doing Gen Z worship songs, same kind of thing. And my children are like, that's inappropriate.
34:38
And my kids aren't like, I mean, I know they're pastor kids, but I don't know that they're
34:44
just like regular kids. So the I mean, I don't know what's behind this. I don't know if it's
34:49
just a joke and parts or if somebody's actually doing it, but it seems to be demeaning the word
34:54
of God. And while I'm not, you know, I'm not like a proponent for the message, there's
35:00
a couple of things I would say positively is like an actual pastor put the message together,
35:07
trying to explain it's not a translation. And Eugene Peterson would have never said it's
35:14
a translation. He would say it's my American interpretation of what the Bible versus mean.
35:21
He would say it that way. And the purpose of it was to help people understand the Bible,
35:25
but not take it lightly. He was actually taking it very seriously. So even though the actual
35:33
words he decided to write down in certain places is not the words I would use or whatever. But
35:39
but I think I mean, you know, not that I know the mind of God, I think Eugene Peterson will
35:43
be judged in a very positive manner for his attempt to get the word of God in an understandable
35:49
way to a bunch of people, not as a replacement for a real Bible or a real Bible translation,
35:56
but as like a supplement. Okay, this claims like silliness to me, man, just silliness.
36:02
Well, that's actually the point that I think I would want to make with this because, you
36:07
know, I posted a video, some guy reading, you know, from this, it was a pastor reading
36:10
this type of thing. And the comments were just like, I can't believe this and people
36:14
were so quick to be offended. And I was like, okay, we can't lose our ability to have a
36:19
sense of humor with things. Because the guy reading it was not quoting it as this as if
36:24
it was an authoritative translation of the Bible, he was quoting it because it was ridiculous.
36:30
I think we forget that we can point at things and mock it for being ridiculous. Now, if
36:35
you do go up to a youth service of some kind, and they're like, all right, everybody turned
36:40
to first Riz 35 or something like that. It's like, okay, that's a problem. And you need
36:45
to stand up, you know, for positive doctrine and right theology and, you know, proper respect
36:51
for the word of God. That's not what this is. And so part of it's like Christians have
36:55
a sense of humor. There are things that are funny. And just like with comedians, the reason
37:00
whenever you can look at a culture to see if they're sick or not is whether or not they,
37:04
you know, crucify their, their comedians, right, their court gestures. And if you can't
37:09
make jokes, even about the sacred cows or any of those types of things, that's not indicative
37:14
of a, a very resilient culture, I could say. Yeah. Hey, where do the youth pastors listening?
37:19
Because I'm sure there's a bunch. What kids want is just an authentic, you authentically
37:27
following Jesus. The moment, because cool is over for you at about 22 years old, like
37:33
you're done. Yeah. And there's, there's nothing more pitiful than the 40 year old youth worker
37:39
trying to be cool for the 15 year old kids. That, and I just did a ministry for 15 years,
37:44
man, they can snip that out like a fart in a car. They're like, no, something's off here.
37:49
And so don't do dumb stuff to try to like connect. Just be who you are and connect. And
37:55
that's what, that's what this upcoming upcoming generation is looking for more than anything
37:59
else. It's just some adults that love Jesus. And particularly to the men, they, they need
38:04
to see some grown men growing up men that love the Lord and act like it, and then just care
38:13
about these kids, even if you don't care about any of the dumb stuff they like, because most
38:17
of the stuff my kids like is dumb. You don't have to like their dumb music and their dumb
38:22
TV shows and their dumb YouTube things. That's not the point. Love Jesus and love them. And
38:26
you can make connections and make disciples. When I remember this back in high school and
38:29
then we'll wrap up soon back in high school, you know, I, I was well liked in high school,
38:34
you know, all the, all the different things that was popular, but the thing was is I was
38:37
me in whatever circle I ran in, because I had friends that were athletes. I had friends
38:41
that were bandkids. I had friends that were metalheads. I had friends that were country
38:44
folk. And you know, I had, you know, friends of all shapes and sizes and colors, gangbangers.
38:49
There was literally a gang in our high school that they were like, Hey, Kyle, if you ever
38:51
need us, and you know what I mean? Like if you need us to fight for you, let me know.
38:54
Like, you know, holler, I mean, like the thing was is I was the same guy in every circle.
38:58
I didn't try to talk like the country guys. When I was around the country guys, I didn't
39:02
try to talk to the like the Hoover's did whenever I was around the gang bangers. I didn't try
39:05
to talk that way. I just was me. I was authentic. And the way I look at this as well, there are
39:09
a lot of parents that think Blippi is weird. So if you don't know who Blippi is, that means
39:14
you don't have a kid that's below the age of five. But Blippi is this YouTube channel.
39:17
It's this guy. And he wears, you know, this blue shirt and these orange suspenders and
39:21
this dopey hat and all that. And the thing about it, this is an adult male that's acting
39:26
like a child. And that is his appeal to children is like, Oh, everything's and goofy and blah,
39:32
blah, blah. And always stripping over himself and doing these funny dances. But can we go
39:36
back to a time when there's someone like Mr. Rogers, Mr. Rogers appealed to children without
39:43
acting like a child. And we are in this time where we are like coddling our children by
39:48
pretending to be like them. You know, you have these women that are far past their best
39:52
years or or men as well. They're trying to dress like their children. They're trying
39:57
to act like their children trying to use that language. And it's like, dude, you're you're
40:01
not doing what you think you're doing like you're you're putting sparkly jeans on a pile
40:05
of diarrhea. That's essentially what you're trying to do right now. So it's like, just
40:09
be an adult. It when you get gray hair embrace the gray hair, right? Whenever you whenever
40:14
you do all these different things, just let it happen because authenticity is what will
40:18
speak to your child and you want to model authenticity. Cause you don't want them to later be seeking
40:23
something that's not real either. Can you co sign that?
40:26
Hey, 100% I just laugh because not too long ago I had a person in Christian ministry that's
40:36
more like in the church growth kind of movement world, you know, whatever. But I get invited
40:39
to speak at all those things because we have a big church and he was talking about my look
40:43
or my beard. And he was like, you know, if you if you colored that, you know, you can
40:49
look younger. And I was like, why in the world would I want to look like a group of people
40:54
didn't know why I want to emulate? Right. What are you talking about? I was like, I get
40:59
it. This is what I look like because I'm a grown man and I embrace the fact that I'm
41:03
a grown man. And you know, there's there's another word I want to throw in there so bad,
41:07
but I'm going to choose not to right now. But that's, I know you could on your podcast,
41:11
but I'm just going to try to do it. I'll do it later. I'll do it later on. But the thing
41:15
is it part of it. I mean, it's like if I have a beard, this is what it looks like. Like,
41:19
what do you mean? Why in the world are you trying to mimic a group of people that you're
41:24
not trying to emulate? In fact, it's supposed to be the other way. I'm trying to set for
41:28
them an example. Life loves speech and purity, not emulate what they're doing. And what's
41:32
crazy is I'm old and I'm 50. So what it's kind of like down the middle right now. And man,
41:39
we got old people in my church, which is incredible. And we've got thousands and thousands
41:45
of 18 to 25 year olds just lining up not to get fashion advice for me. Cause I just wear
41:51
the same thing on time, but they show up with their Bibles. And listen, it's easy to crap
41:57
on this upcoming generation. And on the whole, it's pretty right to crap on it. Cause it's
42:03
pretty pitiful. You know, but dude, there is a segment of like Gen Z kids with Bibles
42:11
open journals out taking notes, taking, I mean, they've rejected a whole lot of things that
42:17
this world has to offer. And they are following after Jesus hard, like really, really legitimately
42:22
hard. And so I want to be that kind of example for them, not try to look like or act like
42:28
or talk like them. And they'll, they lean into that. They're looking for fathers. That's
42:33
what they're looking for.
42:34
One, here's the thing guys, and we don't have time to really extrapolate all this out. We
42:38
as a culture worship at the altar of youth. And so if you're, if you're a woman, you
42:44
will get all kinds of different augmentations and different things to look younger. And
42:49
then we have men doing the same thing. Now men. Now it's TRT. And it's, you know, human
42:54
growth hormone and its hair plugs and so on. And if that's your thing, I don't, I don't
42:59
care. I ultimately don't really care because if you want to look a certain way, if you
43:01
want to, you know, keep doing the comb over thing as opposed to just bicking your hair,
43:05
whatever it's, it's your look, right? But at the same time, it's like, I need to explore
43:09
why you are doing that. Like why exactly? And I've had this discussion with my wife because
43:13
we know a lot of gals. Well, she knows a lot of gals because she's in professional photography
43:17
that have had, you know, different things done and different work things done. Some
43:21
of them have gotten bad car accidents and needed to fix themselves. Some of them had
43:25
double mastectomies because, you know, they had, they had cancer. And some of them just
43:30
want to want people to look at them the same way that they did when they were 18 in a smoke
43:35
show as a freshman in college. And it's like, you have to look at why am I doing this. So
43:39
eventually, because I'm 37, eventually I will probably start looking at different things
43:43
that I can take to help recover with my body and keep my body young and working well into
43:50
my older age. Okay. But I'm not doing that. So that, like, you know, girls in college,
43:56
well, look at me as I'm walking by at Cudoba and be like, Oh my gosh, look at that old.
44:00
Look at that guy that should be old, but he's not old. Like I don't want that. Like I want
44:03
people to look at me like you earn gray hair guys. Like I, it's not a thing to be plucked.
44:08
It's a thing to be embraced. Like just you earn that with years and hopefully with years
44:13
comes wisdom and wisdom is a gift, right? Like you can be intellectually strong and not
44:19
have wisdom. But if you're seeking after wisdom and seeking after the word, God is like you're
44:23
not going to be worried as much about how your skin looks and, you know, the color of your
44:27
hair. But hey, that's me. And I know I'm a little bit of a, you know, of a throwback
44:31
in terms of my opinion on that.
44:33
Not man, you're right on. I mean, it sounds like you're reading the message version of
44:38
the Proverbs. I mean, that's basically what the old man in Proverbs is saying. Yeah,
44:42
it doesn't like actual that's the most offensive thing I think you've said to me in our entire
44:47
relationship, you basically said what I just said sounded like the message. How freaking
44:51
dare you? Well, it does. That's the whole point of the message was it's not like normal
44:55
speak, but that was it. That is that's what I mean, the, in order to understand the Proverbs,
45:01
it starts this way. I'm an old guy teaching my son some stuff, pay attention, write this
45:06
down. And that's just what you were saying. And so I mean, even look at our relationship,
45:09
I'm quite a bit, I mean, whatever, 13 years old or new and, and I have earned these gray
45:16
hairs, your own, your way, you're, I mean, there's a bunch of young guys that are listening
45:21
to this. And so it's, it's, it's very, it's very much what Paul told Timothy and Titus,
45:27
you know, old men find some middle aged guys to teach some young guys to raise up a new
45:31
generation. And so that's what we need to be about. That's what we'll do. And we'll continue
45:35
to do that here on this show before we let you go. Do you got anything else you need to
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get off your chest, Joby? No, sir. I appreciate you. See you next time. Yes, sir. Thank you
45:43
guys so much for listening to this episode. Wherever you're listening to this, please
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subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five star review. If you want to come speak live
45:50
at your event or on your podcast to shoot me an email to info@undonton.life. That's
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I N F O at undonton.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our
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website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming
46:03
your way. Just go to www dot undaunted dot life. And also we want to thank the band Holy Name
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for allowing us to use their music for our content. The music on this podcast is our
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song Perpetua, which is off their self titled debut album on Face Down Records. The links
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are in the description. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness,
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keep forging spiritual mental and physical resilience, keep seeking the lion of Judah.
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