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This is undaunted life a man's podcast. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it.
0:56
Joe B. Martin, welcome back to the show. That is a fantastic hat. So how does it fit?
1:01
It fits great. Thank you. I like your hat. It's a great man. I got to tell you, branded bills,
1:07
they absolutely crush it. And that's like their new X Gen thing. So it's like all their stuff,
1:11
but reimagined and still super duper expensive. But it's also a great travel hat as I've found
1:17
out. And you just got back from my favorite city in the entire world. And I've had the privilege
1:24
of being able to kind of hopscotch around the world a little bit. But my favorite city I've
1:28
been to been there twice as Rome. It's just yeah, it's dirty city. There's graffiti everywhere. But
1:32
it's like, there's the Coliseum and there's the forum and there's, you know, St. Peter's and there's
1:36
all the stuff. And so were you there celebrating the new pope? Because you were there around the
1:40
time everybody was like freaking out in Rome, or were you supposed to be there anyway?
1:45
Yeah, it was just coincidence that we were there when the conclave happened. But it was awesome,
1:49
man. I mean, it was really it was cool. It was, I think that part made it better.
1:53
Okay, so like what did you do when you were like, so what were you there for? Was this just like
1:57
vacation or were you and did you take my advice and go check out some of the obscure off the
2:01
beaten past stuff? No, I got that advice too late. So I would already we were in Florence by the
2:06
time we got that it we it was like a pre trip. I'm going to be leading a footsteps of Paul trip
2:12
where we start. And like, I don't we'll probably go to the Alapat most and chase the seven churches
2:17
in Revelation and then make our way up through Greece to Rome. But I wanted to go first and just
2:23
kind of take some of it in. And so it was me and Gretchen and then a couple from the church that
2:28
we love dearly, the Niswiz. So we went. Okay, and so what, what did you see when you're in Rome,
2:34
were you able to see the Coliseum, the forum, the Pantheon, like all the stuff? All the stuff,
2:38
all the stuff, everything from stuff that meant a lot to us, like the sacred steps that Jesus
2:45
walked up to Pontius Pilates, you know, to be to be judged. That was pretty awesome. We saw the
2:50
the prison where Paul was chained and probably Peter also that was awesome. Even this, you know,
2:58
I mean, St. Peter's Basilica is impressive, like crazy. But you know, yeah, we saw all the things
3:04
that you would say. So were you able to go inside of St. Peter's? Because I don't know what the
3:09
Conclave going on. If things were shut down, did you get to see, you know, the Sistine Chapel,
3:13
the last judgment, you know, creation of Adam, all the stuff? The only thing we didn't see was
3:20
the Sistine Chapel, but we had a private Vatican tour that started at seven AM. It was even our
3:24
tour guides were like, this is unbelievable. There were, there were six of us just walking around
3:29
the entire Vatican by ourselves with a tour guide. It was, so that was pretty great. But the Sistine
3:35
Chapel, like we got to the door of the Sistine Chapel, and they were setting it up for the Conclave
3:40
to meet that day, like two hours later. So, you know, but it was cool.
3:45
Yeah, I will tell you, people don't really understand how big St. Peter's is until they go.
3:51
And then when you go into Sistine Chapel, you've seen, you've seen pictures and you've seen pictures
3:55
of the last judgment, which is on the wall, and you've, you've seen that. And so you think you're
3:59
ready for it. And it's similar in Florence. You think you're ready for the David. I don't know if
4:03
you got to see the David statue there, but you walk that hallway and then you turn to the right,
4:08
and there's a long hallway, and then there's the David. And it's just impossibly huge. It's just not
4:13
at all what you're expecting. And just even with the David, the detail, like even in the palm of the
4:18
hand where he's holding like the stone, you can see like the, you know, the little wrinkles and
4:23
other little skin details. And in San Francisco, you know, that little, that ligament right here,
4:28
like on your elbow, it only happens if you're if you're pinky as a, I mean, and to do that with
4:33
one piece of marble. I mean, it was, it was really awe inspiring, no doubt, you know, so, yeah,
4:38
I have trouble not like cutting my grass unevenly. And this dude's, you know, creating something like
4:44
that, like out of like one slab of marble. But obviously you were there, you're right,
4:49
you're right there before the conclave. By the way, the thing that I told him to go,
4:52
if you ever go to Rome, one super off the beaten path thing that you got to check out is called
4:56
bone church. And so this was like an early sect of Christianity that had kind of like an
5:01
outsized reverence for the dead. And so all of their mosaics on their walls and all of their
5:05
decorations are made out of human bones. And so like actual human bones. And so there, there you
5:10
go. So if you're ever in Rome, guys, you got a tour guide that knows the thing or two, make
5:13
sure you check out bone church. But you're there for the conclave. It obviously feels super Catholic
5:17
while you're there, you're walking through, you know, St. Peter's and all the different things.
5:21
And then, you know, by the time people are listening to this, yes, Pope Francis has passed away.
5:26
Hopefully he is with the Lord and enjoying the streets of gold right now. And then you've got
5:30
Pope Leo the 14th, first American Pope, all all the different things and people trying to figure
5:35
out, is he going to be liberal? Is he going to be conservative as if he's a political figure,
5:38
even though technically he kind of is. But then everybody kind of gets into the [inaudible] contest
5:43
about Catholics want to use that time to dunk on Protestants and obviously Protestants like
5:47
me love to dunk on the Catholics a little bit and kind of rib them just a little bit. But there
5:52
does become a bit of an issue with some certain scriptures that are either misapplied or used
5:57
as a bludgeon. And so obviously for me, 1 Timothy 2, 5, for there is one God and there is one mediator
6:02
between God and man, the man Christ Jesus. But then Catholics, Joby, and you've talked about this
6:08
before, they'll quote Matthew 16 versus 18 and 19. And I tell you, you are Peter and on this rock,
6:13
I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys
6:18
of the kingdom of heaven and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatever you
6:22
loose on earth shall be loose in heaven. So Catholics say, hey, there's been an unbroken line of popes
6:28
from Peter until today, which is historically inaccurate. But they say every single pope
6:34
was chosen by God. There wasn't a single pope that that wasn't chosen in even the super duper evil
6:39
ones, even the homosexual ones, even all the things, but everybody is like, no, no, no,
6:43
like it's been a perfect unbroken line. And so, and I've also, I know it's taken me a while to set
6:48
this up just because it's been in the air for the last couple weeks, Joby. But you know, Catholics
6:52
are saying like all these Christians saying things like solo scripture, it's like, well, the new
6:58
Testament wasn't even written fully for decades until after Jesus was done. And it wasn't combined
7:03
into a single document that we can, you know, put into a book and bind it and put it under our,
7:08
our, you know, under our armpit and then go on about our day. And before the printing press,
7:13
it wasn't even widely available. There would be like one Bible that was like chained to the
7:18
altar of your local Catholic church, right? And it wasn't just generally available. And so people
7:22
are like, Oh, what is the soul of scripture thing? So we'll take a minute to kind of unpack a lot
7:27
of these things because I knew I threw a lot at you. But I guess let's just start easy. Why aren't
7:30
you a Catholic, Joby? Because of that Bible. That's just simply it. And I'm not sure which one is
7:37
more foundational. Well, bottom line is Catholicism. And I'm not trying to dunk on people. I do believe
7:45
there are Catholics that have surrendered their life to the lordship of Christ, of course, of course,
7:48
with the best understanding that they have. But the core doctrine of the Catholic church
7:54
is not the gospel. It is a gospel plus works, period. They do not believe in the imputed righteousness
8:02
of Christ. They believe in the imparted righteousness of Christ. And imputed means if I believe when
8:09
Jesus died on the cross for me, it counted for me, and I surrender my life to him, call in the name
8:14
of the Lord, then I am imputed or reckoned with the righteousness of Christ. Catholics don't believe
8:19
that Catholic doctrine is there are some things that I must do to keep myself in a position of grace.
8:26
And if I do my part, God does his part and he will impart his grace upon me. See like baptism,
8:32
first communion, the sacraments, confession, et cetera. So bottom line, it is that Jesus's
8:39
life, death, and resurrection, and your belief in that your fate, your pursuit, oh,
8:44
in the propitiation of Jesus for your sins is not enough for salvation. Okay. So that's why I'm not
8:50
a Catholic. And the reason I know that is because of the scripture. That's why I'm saying, I'm not
8:56
sure which one goes first. I know fate is foundational, but the way we have fate is because of the revealed
9:00
word of God. So maybe it's a little bit chicken and egg there. Now, the problem with the Catholic's
9:05
view of scripture is there a sola scriptura is about authority. And our fundamental authority
9:14
here on this earth is the revealed word of God. In the Catholic church, they have three legs to
9:19
the stool of authority. They would say that the Bible is authoritative. And the pope's word is
9:24
authoritative. And whatever the councils and tradition of the church is authoritative.
9:30
What happens? Yeah, like, okay, so explain to me, Mariology. It's all made up, dude.
9:37
It's there's there's a few wonderful verses about what a blessed person that she is. But to create
9:43
a whole theology that she was always a virgin, the Bible itself says that she has sons and daughters,
9:48
that Jesus has brothers and sisters. Yeah. By the time you get to like the Renaissance,
9:54
they are painting pictures of Mary sitting on a throne with Jesus. And then councils come along
10:00
and say, yep, she is sitting on a throne next to Jesus. The problem with that is some people
10:05
just made that up. And so anytime you put man's opinion on par with the word of God, you've got a
10:12
real problem. That's where you get things like papal authority, papal infallibility, an unbroken
10:18
succession of popes from Peter. Dude, Pope wasn't even a Roman Catholic position until 1035.
10:24
Pope just comes from the word Papa from Italian means father. There were dozens of them for hundreds
10:30
of years. So why does the Bishop of Rome have some sort of special authority from God that the
10:37
Bishop of Florence doesn't? I can tell you why, because some people just made that up. Now,
10:41
very smart people. It's a very fancy hat with robes. But the moment you get to a place where
10:48
human ideas stand in judgment over the word of God, I'm out just like Martin Luther. He said,
10:57
the problem is, you know, your problem, Pope is the Bible. And so if you, I mean, even in current
11:06
Catholic dogma and doctrine, one of their counsel says, fate alone, salvation by faith alone,
11:14
is anathema. Right. That if you think faith in Christ will save you, you are damned to hell.
11:20
Well, like Martin Luther, he reads Romans chapter one, and he reads the only thing for the power of
11:26
salvation is the gospel itself. That's why I'm not a Catholic because of the Bible.
11:33
Well, one quick thing before we move off this, I appreciate all that. I mean, yeah, you make the
11:36
point about the Mary, the Mary stuff is very strange to me because the scripture clearly teaches
11:40
that Jesus had, I think was it for brothers and it said he had sisters. So that means at least two.
11:44
So you had six siblings, I guess you may be in column half siblings. But this idea that Mary was
11:49
this perpetual virgin, again, purgatory, like we don't see any scriptural basis for purgatory at all.
11:55
But I got an interesting email here recently, because I'm getting a lot of questions about
11:59
Eastern Orthodox, and I'm also getting questions about Latin mask Catholicism. So not like laps,
12:04
Catholic catholic, but kind of like super like fundamental like Latin mask type stuff. And someone
12:10
said, Hey, I'm trying to witness to my buddy right now, but he's being drawn to Catholicism. And he
12:15
says he likes the idea of praying to saints and asking the saints to pray for him. And this whole
12:21
idea of like praying to Mary, like I posted a video that I thought was, I thought it was a video
12:26
posted by some comedian, but it was an actually a Catholic priest trying to explain why they
12:30
they prayed to Mary. But it's like, Hey, sometimes God's busy. And it's like, you know, if your
12:35
friend was busy and you drop by their house, like you would maybe tell their mom like, Hey,
12:39
would you tell Jimmy that I stopped by? And then you know, I was thinking about him or something
12:42
like that. And I'm sitting there like, this can't be real. But it was it's super duper real. When
12:47
you talk to just kind of a general everyday Catholic, they're like, well, yeah, like, you know, I I
12:52
prayed to Mary, so she'll pray for me. I pray to the saints, people that have been sainted by men,
12:55
by the way, that were also just men. And then those people will send my prayers to God. And it's
13:01
like, I just wonder where we've lost the thread or where they've lost the thread, rather.
13:04
I'm not trying to be demeaning, but what I experienced in Rome was like the worst game of
13:10
telephone I've ever seen in my life. We're in the game of telephone. Of course, yeah. Well,
13:15
that's what's happened for 2000 years as there's been this crazy game of telephone. And I mean,
13:21
it all started with Jesus's proclamation that upon this rock, I will build my church.
13:25
And then that just got twisted and twisted and twisted and twisted into what we see now.
13:29
And so there are human beings that believe that the spirit inside of them is not enough,
13:35
that Christ's life, death and resurrection is not enough. And so they need some help. Even though
13:40
there are countless Bible verses about Jesus saying, come to me and I will give you rest,
13:46
knock in the door will be open, all these things. And so that is the fundamental problem. And so
13:50
the best way to talk to a Catholic is with the scripture. And so there's so many people in the
13:55
11 22 and they grew up Catholic and praise God for it because they have a reverence for the Lord
13:59
and even even a form of worship, but it was just so impersonal and works based that they have found
14:07
the good news of the grace of the gospel just to be a refreshing like glass of water in their
14:12
part soul. Very good. All right, let's move off of that. Let's move to a question from James.
14:17
He is a member of Dominion team one. So shout out to the Dominion team guys right now as I've
14:23
already announced or I haven't announced anything yet. Wait, wait until tomorrow's episode. Anyway,
14:27
here's a question from James. I'm from rural South Carolina. I grew up in a very Baptist setting.
14:33
Don't worry. We weren't playing with snakes or waving flags. My father was a pastor and we
14:37
were essentially taught to be the ultimate little rule followers combined with that. I almost always
14:43
felt like I was just on the verge of losing my salvation at all times. But that is what was
14:49
ingrained in me. If people have a fundamentalist and strict background, what would you tell them
14:53
about assurance of salvation? Yeah, you should read Romans over and over and over and over.
14:58
Back to our Catholic conversation. Same thing happened to Martin Luther. Martin Luther was tall
15:04
as a Catholic that he had to maybe he was saved by grace, but he had to earn his keeping. And so
15:11
he would just confess and confess and confess. And then he realized that we were saved by grace
15:16
alone through faith alone in Christ alone. And so Paul's letter to the Romans is fundamentally the
15:22
first eight chapters are just what the gospel is. Chapters 9, 10, 11 are Israel's role in the
15:29
consummation of all things. And then the 12 to the end is just so what does that mean for me today?
15:35
So if you would if you just want to consist that starting Romans three, read Romans chapter three
15:39
and Romans chapter eight over and over and over until the word of God changes your mind. That there is
15:45
by works of the law, no one will be justified in the sight of God. But we need an alien righteousness.
15:51
This is what Romans chapter three is all about. And that comes through faith in Christ. And then
15:55
by the time you get to chapter eight, at the end of Romans eight, you'll get one of the greatest
16:00
passages on the assurance of our salvation. There's nothing that could separate you from the love of
16:04
God. And so when you don't have assurance of your salvation, it's because there's there's some part
16:09
of the gospel or some part of the character in nature of God that you don't believe. And you
16:15
still think you saved you, but you did not. There's nothing that could separate you from the love of
16:20
God, even your doubts. Hey guys, real quick. So there you are. You're about to make some delicious
16:26
meat and you open up your cabinet and you freeze, you freeze because you look and you see you have
16:33
like three or four dozen different seasonings. But this seasoning is just for your wild game.
16:38
And this seasoning is really good on pork, but not really good on chicken. And you just kind of
16:42
lose your mind and eventually just reach up there and grab a random one. So here's the thing, guys,
16:46
I want you to stop getting jammed up by having too many options in the seasoning department.
16:50
It's time for you to have a go to seasoning for everything. And that's why I want to reintroduce
16:55
you to my friends over at G's seasoning. So this is a reintroduction because back in the day,
17:00
I think this was over the winter. I told you guys about G's seasoning. I was at my buddy,
17:04
Dale Brisby's house. We're about to shoot a podcast and all that. But he had made me some
17:08
steaks and I took one bite of this steak. And I was like, bro, what in the world was this seasoned
17:13
with? He gave me a bottle of G's seasoning. He told me a little bit about the story about it
17:17
being a small family owned operation in Texas and how they used to back in the 80s, just handout
17:22
bags of the seasoning out of the back of a store and things like that. But that they had started
17:26
bottling it and started selling it. And then I told you guys, wouldn't it be so cool if for the
17:31
Christmas season, if you guys bought some G's seasoning and you know what you guys did? Y'all
17:34
went out and bought it. And to those of you that have bought it, it has been an amazing thing for
17:38
you. All of you have loved it. So I'm glad to reintroduce them to you. So G's seasoning is an
17:42
all-purpose seasoning that is great on beef, pork, wild game, chicken, fish, eggs, veggies,
17:48
and guys, if you want a big boy hack, throw some G's on some popcorn. You can thank me later. So
17:52
guys, stop getting a bunch of different seasonings for all of your different meat dishes. Support a
17:57
small town American family business by going to G's seasoning.com. That is G S seasoning.com. Throw
18:04
some G's on that. Okay, again, that is G's seasoning.com. That's golf Sierra seasoning.com order today.
18:13
Yeah, sounds like all roads lead to Romans. So guys, keep that in mind as we move forward in this
18:18
particular podcast. But also, we need to talk to, well, maybe not this one with you, but hey,
18:23
guys, you know, spoiler alerts coming. Eric from the forging table, Eric Browning, he had a very
18:28
good, but very short question. Is it unbiblical to believe in luck?
18:32
Um, hmm. Well, I mean, ultimately God is sovereign over all things. So maybe he's sovereign over luck
18:44
to if that exists or chance or whatever. I mean, I'll tell you what's crazy. The New Testament,
18:49
one of the primary ways that they made major decisions, like replacing an apostle
18:56
is they pray, pray, pray, pray, pray, and cast lots. And they believe God was in charge of that.
19:02
So semantically, you know, one of the things I will say though, when people say, good luck,
19:07
I'll say I don't need luck. I have Jesus. So I, you know, I'm not a luck guy.
19:11
Yeah, I'm kind of one of the things for whatever reason, a couple of years ago,
19:16
whenever I was using the word luck, I was like, it just started to sound funny whenever I would
19:21
say it because it's just kind of a colloquial saying we just kind of say like, Hey, good luck,
19:25
break a leg, that type of thing. But it's like, okay, if everything is like kind of weaved together
19:30
and like nothing surprising to God, like, is it lucky that you found a quarter in the parking lot?
19:36
Yeah, but did bending down to pick it up, delay you just long enough to where you didn't go through
19:40
that intersection where a guy ran a red light? I don't know. That's why I hope that there's a big
19:44
amphitheater right kind of like the sphere in Vegas, but I hope that's in heaven. And then we can
19:49
just go to any point in history and just kind of watch, you know, the battle will run or watch that
19:54
one time when we should have died, but God, you know, saved us sovereignly or whatever. So here's the
19:58
next question is from me because I'm selfish. Here we go. If you feel guilty about a particular
20:04
sin before you become a Christian, is that your conscience or the Holy Spirit working on and in
20:11
you before you receive it? And so just kind of set that up because, you know, there's kind of the
20:18
law, the natural law that's kind of written onto our hearts. And then there are also things that
20:22
people are doing, like my wife and I were even just talking about this yesterday, it's like,
20:25
you don't even know it's a sin. And then maybe a pastor or sermon or something like that disabuses
20:30
you of that notion. Now you're responsible. Now you're a responsible agent because you know,
20:36
this is a sinful thing. And if you continue doing it, it's problematic. But before you become a
20:40
Christian, and before you get the Holy Spirit, what is that that makes you feel icky when you do
20:45
something bad? Yes, that is. I do think if you if you became a Christian, I do think that is the
20:51
wooing of the Holy Spirit. And there is no repentance without conviction. And if you if you look at the
20:58
sermon on the Mount, the way Jesus starts, it is blessed are the poor in spirit. So the precursor
21:03
to salvation is you realizing that you were spiritually bankrupt. So I think that is a very,
21:08
very positive thing in the human beings life when they realize, Oh, I'm a sinner because you'll never
21:15
know that you need a Savior if you don't realize that you are a sinner. Now on the other hand,
21:20
according to Romans chapter one, God has placed eternity like our his fingerprints are on us.
21:28
And so we are all without excuse because somehow deep in the heart of every person,
21:33
they know that we have exchanged worshiping the one true God for lesser gods. So I also think that
21:39
that kind of guilt or conviction is in the heart of every single person.
21:44
And some kind of one. Yeah, I've kind of wondered that because even if you have kids that you'll
21:49
have kids that'll manifest guilt like bodily like they'll get like a tummy ache when they do some
21:53
bad when they've lied to mommy or daddy and they can't really explain it. So it's like, Hey,
21:57
what is that before? Maybe they're just select, right? Because if you're in the club, you're in
22:00
the club, right? No, no one gets to choose. That's what you said anyway. Anyway, let's go to the next
22:05
question here. This is from Brad. Yeah, hey, I just kind of have to slide some things in there
22:10
every now and then and hope you just don't come back at it. But this is from Brad who is again,
22:14
what? Yeah, that dad gum Bible. I mean, but again, I got into Americans. We don't read our Bibles.
22:21
We just own them. We don't read them, right? We have six or seven of them. And we just
22:24
we got to blow the dust off whenever we take them to Easter, you know, unless except your church,
22:28
your church actually uses the Bible for whatever reason. Next question here. This is from Brad,
22:32
who is also a dominion team one guy. And he happens to go to church with you. So shout out to Brad.
22:39
How do we as Christians display appropriate righteous anger in the modern day in reference
22:45
to Jesus's display of flipping the tables in the temple? How do we flip modern day tables?
22:50
Are we even called to flip tables? What are some examples of tables that need to be flipped?
22:56
An example of a table, Brad, that you saw personally was when I went to war against
23:01
amendment four in Florida and then four was they were trying to pass a bill that you could have an
23:06
abortion for any reason or no reason up to the point of birth. It was just from it was from the
23:10
devil. So a lot of it, I mean, you named your deal dominion. So one of the things you got to pay
23:15
attention to is what do you have dominion over? So you have dominion over your home,
23:20
depending on where you are in your in your job, you may have dominion over certain areas of that,
23:24
or maybe the whole thing. The crazy thing about America is that we are run, this is a government
23:29
by the people and for the people. So we have dominion over this country, not the politicians.
23:34
And so, and one of the major ways that we can flip over tables, I mean, Jesus flipped over
23:41
those tables, that was his house. He flipped over to the tables in his house. So very, I mean,
23:47
practically speaking, a big part of the way we flip over tables is Christians must be very,
23:51
very, very politically active, but driven by the scriptures and led along by the Holy Spirit.
23:58
So, you know, not necessarily into like who your favorite personality is, but if our government
24:05
tries to prevent us from doing something the Bible says we ought to, or tries to make us do
24:11
something the Bible says that we should not do, then we have to be politically active and flip
24:16
over whatever table it takes. Now, the thing is that you have to understand is you also have to be
24:22
willing to put up with the consequences of it. So for instance, if they, if they ever pass hate
24:28
speech laws about what I can and cannot preach, then I've just got to know I'm going to preach the
24:35
truth of the Word of God. And if it lands me in jail, it lands me in jail. Now, I would fight it,
24:41
but that may be the consequence. But I think standing for the Lord one day with a clean conscience
24:46
is a higher value to me than not going to prison. Well, Joby, Kelsey and I, probably about a year
24:52
ago, we had a fairly intense conversation because I said, Hey, Kelsey, because of the growth, and
24:57
this was before the Daily Bladium. And I was like, because of the growth of the show and because of
25:00
my profile. And again, I'm not huge, but you know, I'm, I'm somewhat known. I was like, there could
25:05
be people that will target me. And if the laws change, and if this is before Trump had been elected,
25:11
like if things go poorly, and depending on pond who's in office, I could be arrested for the things
25:16
that I say and the things I advocate for, like for the unborn, and for not transing the kids and
25:21
things like that. And it's like, we just have to be okay with that. But it's like, I just need you
25:26
to be my helpmate. I need you to be my lioness, if something like that were to happen, because
25:30
for the sake of Christ, you would become a single mom. And that just just may be part of our story
25:35
and things like that. But I can't, I can't shut up. And I can't also censor myself at this point,
25:42
because the thing I always ask people, Joe, be on this flip in the table sling, because these
25:45
pacifistic kind of wussy Christian types, they're like, well, that was Jesus overturning the tables.
25:50
It was descriptive, not prescriptive. I was like, Hey, that's my quote. But also the biggest thing
25:55
about that problem is I asked these people, I'm like, okay, then let's go over some incendiary
26:01
topics. And you tell me what the moderate position is. What is the moderate position on murdering
26:06
murdering image bears of God in the womb? What's the moderate position? Hey, on transing the kids,
26:11
do we only cut off part of their testicles and part of their penis? Do we only shave part of their
26:17
arm to kind of sew it together to sew it under their crotch to make a phallic thing? Like, what
26:22
is the moderate position on some of these things? And they don't really like that question. It's
26:25
because they can't give us an answer. And it's like, yes, there are modern day tables that need to be
26:30
overturned. But again, we live in America, where you can say whatever you want without consequence,
26:34
right? Well, someday there may be consequences. And we just got to be able to have broad enough
26:38
shoulders to deal with it. Yeah. And I know you're not being dramatic, because it could be a
26:45
reality. I do think Florida and Oklahoma would be some of the last places where we lose religious
26:50
freedom. But it's the same conversation that every police officer, fire fire, person in the armed
26:59
services has to have with their spouse. Because of what God has called me to do, it's going to cost
27:06
you more, at least the risk of losing me and our family intact, because of the role that God has
27:13
called me to play. And I need you to have my back on that. I know mama bear is going to rise up
27:18
and be like, is this really best for our kids? You'd be like, I understand, but we are at war
27:25
in a more intense way in spiritual warfare. And just because it's spiritual doesn't mean it's not
27:30
actual. And so it may cost us, it could cost us our actual lives. You know, I've had, I'm sure you
27:36
have had death threats to have had several, but it also could could cost us, you know, our lives
27:41
in regards to our vocation and freedom. But that's just part of it, man. Like, dude, I was in Rome,
27:48
where Paul and Peter were in prison. And you know, you get to walk in the prisons, they still have
27:53
the chains that they think Paul was chained up with. And in that spot, Paul writes Philippians.
28:01
And he says, for me to live his Christ to die is game. So I want to live with that kind of freedom.
28:06
Yeah, I remember in college, walking through that same same place and seeing that this dark,
28:11
dank kind of underground, like a horribly uncomfortable place. And at the time, I didn't really have
28:17
the spiritual acumen or biblical acumen to really understand the gravity of what I was witnessing.
28:20
But it's like, wait, this is Paul. This is that guy. This is the dude. And shipwreck, snakebit,
28:27
betrayed by his friends, like left for dead multiple times, stoned, like, and it's not in the cool way.
28:32
Like that's the big, that's the guy, right? Peter crucified upside down. Basically,
28:37
the only apostle that had a decently mild death was John, but they did try to boil him alive at
28:42
one point. It just didn't work. And so it didn't work. This is my speculation. But you remember what
28:47
Jesus says to John on the cross? He basically says, Hey, my mother, my mom. Yeah. So I think
28:52
when the, when the Lord of heaven and earth, give you an assignment, you don't get to die until
28:56
your assignment's up. So, you know, that's what I think. So they couldn't kill him. Yeah, that's,
29:03
that's just kind of one of those things. But yeah, I appreciate going into detail in the
29:06
overturning the tables thing. So now we need to move to another donor. I don't know. I want you,
29:09
well, there's one other thing you, you have this quote that I love so much back. I never
29:13
remember it. It's so pithy. When you were talking to chain clay horn, when you talk about what do
29:18
you, what do you say when you, the pacifist who's counting on somebody else to defend them? What do
29:23
you, how do you say it? I think it was towards the end. Oh, I don't know what my pithy statement
29:31
is. But I told him, I said, like, hopefully you and I are breaking bread one day, somebody
29:34
somewhere in Philadelphia. But if someone comes in there and tries to take us out, it's guys like
29:38
you that are going to be hiding behind guys like me hoping that I take out the threat before he gets
29:42
to you. Yeah. And what those guys do is abdicate their responsibility. And, and they mostly, but
29:49
it's almost like they contract out safety for other people to other people. And God has given me
29:55
dominion on it. Yeah, I'm not going to outsource. I'm not going to outsource my violence to the
30:01
government. That's it. Yeah. Good for you. When I think about it the same way as this. So, so just
30:06
going a little further on that vein, I was talking recently to someone that comment. Oh, oh, it was
30:12
when things were going wrong for Christians that were being beheaded in the Congo and things happening
30:17
in Nigeria. Well, there was a time when the government was for those people. And so if you
30:22
outsource your violence to that local government and there for you, so I live in Edmond, Oklahoma.
30:27
And so if I call the Edmond Police Department and there's an emergency, they're going to come with
30:32
sirens blaring, right? That's just what they're going to do. But if there were a time or if I lived
30:37
in a place where they're not for me, whether it's because of who I am or because I'm a Christian,
30:42
and I've outsourced my violence to them and allowed them to train for violence,
30:46
well, they're not going to protect me. And so it's like, okay, it sounds like a good idea. And then
30:51
you should just start breaking it down. It's like, okay, I don't need to learn how to be violent.
30:54
I mean, I got dudes in my own like inner circle that like they don't train to fight. They're very,
30:58
very soft dudes. And it's just kind of like, Hey, if some goes wrong, I'll call the police. I was
31:02
like average response time for police for 911 in America is about seven minutes. That's if they call,
31:07
that's if they respond at all. And so it's like, you're in a situation where seconds matter and help
31:13
is potentially minutes away. And all you have is your soft hands and your unwillingness to pull
31:18
out a firearm because your wife thinks they're icky and scary. It's like, okay, so that's the
31:23
problem right there. I just had an elder meeting and we were talking about fear and what it means
31:28
to be a man. And I think one of the greatest fears most men have is they fear the emotions of their
31:33
spouse. And therefore they don't lead the way they were called to lead. I mean, you get, I mean,
31:38
it's a little bit of speculation because there's no commentary on why Adam didn't do anything.
31:42
But that's what got her to send to this hell hole to begin with is because a man was probably
31:47
afraid because his wife wanted something even though he knew she wasn't supposed to have it.
31:51
And instead of stepping up, he didn't do anything. And then, and then all hell breaks loose. I mean,
31:56
literally, and I'm not just talking about the place you go if you don't believe in Jesus.
31:59
I'm talking about there will be a living hell that you live in right now. If you can't
32:03
provide, protect, be the prophet, priest, and servant king of what God has given you dominion
32:09
over. That's, that's what it means to be a man. Well, it's so funny you bring up Shane
32:12
Clayborn. That was one of the most fun things I've ever gotten to do because Justin Breyer
32:16
really reached out to me and said, Hey, I'd like to do, uh, you know, an anti second amendment,
32:21
pro second amendment debate. And you know, you're a gun guy, right? And I'm like, Justin,
32:26
I think I've talked about second amendment once or twice on my show up to that point.
32:29
It's not even the top 10 list of things that I normally talk about. It's just kind of like a
32:32
thing in my life. But I'm like, sure, I'll go bust a stewed up for an hour. That's fine.
32:35
But there was one point where I knew like, Joby, I've been playing this for weeks. So guys,
32:39
if you're not familiar, look for unbelievable Shane Clayborn, Kyle Thompson on YouTube.
32:44
And you know, I knew I was going to have limited time, but I just knew I was going to hit him
32:48
with the scenario because he lives in Philadelphia. He doesn't have kids, but he is married. And so,
32:51
I put him in this situation. Glass breaks in the middle of the night. Okay. You know, you go to
32:57
investigate. You don't see anything. You come back to your room and there's a bad guy in the room
33:03
with your wife. He's about to kill her or worse, right? What are you going to do, Shane? He said,
33:09
well, I would call the police. I was like, great. Let's say the response time that seven minutes.
33:13
So hit your time or on your watch. You got seven minutes. Now what? Well, you know,
33:17
I would try to, you know, talk him down or whatever. And I'm like, Oh, okay. So but he's not going to
33:22
be talked out of what he's there for. He's there in the middle of the night. So he's not there for
33:24
your television. He's there for for y'all. Okay. Well, then I would, I would do anything I can to try
33:29
and stop him, right? And so I'm like, including what? He's like, I would, I would grab a chair,
33:34
I would grab a whatever. And I'm like, okay, this is where we fundamentally disagree.
33:38
Or sorry. Let me. Yeah. So what's the difference in a chair and just a better chair that can throw
33:45
in a chair is real fast. Right. This is what I hit him with. I said, look, that's where we have,
33:50
like some, some agreement. It's like, we, we want to protect our spouse and we want to do all those
33:56
different things. But where we disagree is you want the fight to not be fair in the favor of the
34:01
wolf. And I want the fight to not be fair in the favor of you. Because if some guy breaks into my
34:06
house with, you know, potato gun, I'm not going to meet force with force. I'm going to outdo that
34:10
force with a force multiplier to end the threat. And so I got him to admit that he was willing to
34:16
do violence, a pacifist. I got a pacifist to admit that he was willing to do violence to protect
34:19
something and someone that he loved. But I just couldn't get him to the place to where it's like,
34:23
why in the world would you want the fight to not be fair where you're in the losing end? It's like
34:28
it makes no sense. But again, he just kind of like Paul, you know, man, or past it. If I was talking to
34:33
him, I would, I would say, listen, Paul told Timothy, the man that does not provide for his
34:41
relatives is worse than the unbeliever. That does not just mean food and shelter. It also
34:45
means provision and protection. So if you cannot provide protection to some reasonable degree,
34:52
then you are worse than an unbeliever. I've told guys that the guys that don't want to fight,
34:59
don't want to train to fight, they think grappling zicky, they think, you know, striking just isn't
35:03
fun. They'd rather go play golf, they'd rather play Pokemon or whatever thing is, it's like,
35:07
okay, man, no one's saying that you have to be an MMA fighter to be a good husband. But if you
35:12
can't, if you can't use your body and use these to protect your spouse and your loved ones,
35:17
it's like I don't really understand that. I mean, to be well equipped. I mean,
35:20
think about it, man, the founders of this country, you're like, you know what? The greatest idea we
35:23
have is freedom of speech and religion. That's number one. And then somebody goes, then you know
35:29
what number two better be guns. Yeah, to protect the first right and look at the early churches,
35:35
some of the early Puritan churches here in American different things like that, the men
35:38
on the inner aisles, right? So on the pews on the inner aisles, all carried muskets,
35:45
all of them. Because in case somebody tried to do something, they could literally just turn around,
35:50
they're already there in the aisle. I talked to a guy that's highway patrolman that goes to our
35:54
church every time I see him, he's always sitting on the last seat. Because if something goes wrong,
35:59
he's going to be one of the first people into the fray. You know what I mean? So all right,
36:02
we got a couple more things here before we get you out of here. First one, this should be a quick
36:05
one. But Zach, this is from a donor. Zach, thank you for being a monthly donor. If the people in
36:09
the Old Testament did not have the Holy Spirit, how did they fight against sin and temptation in
36:14
their own lives? The law, the law was there to help guide them in the right direction. Now,
36:20
it would just show them that they needed more than the law, they needed a savior.
36:24
But it was also, it was a three year credit society and everybody was playing by the same rules and
36:30
laws. And so that was the primary way. But it was lacking. It was like, you know, Paul calls it like
36:35
a babysitter. So it wasn't enough, but it was at least enough to direct them in the right way to
36:40
keep them out of, at least, at least they knew what direction to go. Okay, very good. Well,
36:47
now we're getting to the last thing. And so we'll try to get through this as quickly as possible.
36:51
But Joby, you kind of have your all shucksy wisdom up there. You're like, I'm just from
36:55
deal in South Carolina, blah, blah, and all things. But everybody knows you're smart. You can read,
37:00
you can write, like you can, you can string sentences together, but we don't know quite
37:03
how smart you are. And the only way we can know for sure is to test that. And so I decided to have
37:11
chat GPT set up some questions from, are you smarter than a fifth grader? Okay. So I got the
37:18
inspiration because Jeff Foxworthy, he hosted that show for forever. He's coming to speak of the
37:22
men's conference here in October. Guys, get your tickets, get your tickets, church 1122 men's
37:26
conference. Jeff Foxworthy will be there. So I've got 10 questions that are fifth grade level
37:32
questions and all kinds of categories. I just had chat GPT do it at random. And here's the thing,
37:36
Joby, if you get all 10 of them, right, you get a million dollars. Okay. Like from from Tiibo or
37:42
somebody, like you'd have to like, you know, ask around the church or something like that. But
37:45
you get, you get a million bucks if you get these 10 rights. So are you prepared for this?
37:49
Probably not. But go for it. Fan freakin task. Here we go. Question number one,
37:54
fifth grade level for a geography. What is the longest river in South America?
37:59
The Amazon, the Amazon one for one number two. This is a US government question. How many
38:09
amendments are there to the US Constitution? Oh Lord. Oh, you know that.
38:14
Hey, do my trial. I don't know the baseball. What is it? 20?
38:20
I don't know. Two, three, four somewhere there. Give it to us. Come on. I don't know. 24.
38:29
27. No million dollars. But we'll see how, how, how good you can get out of out of 10 here.
38:35
All right. Third question. This is math. What is three force divided by one half?
38:43
Um, three eights. It is three seconds or one and a half. So I think you have to like
38:52
inverse it and then, you know, count it up. So all right, we can still get a B. If you,
38:56
if you run the table, we can still get a B here. Okay. Fourth question. This is science.
39:01
What causes the tides on earth? The moon. That's right. Gravitational pool, the moon and the sun
39:07
will give it to you. Bam, bam. You're two and two. Here we go. Fifth question history.
39:11
Which ancient civilization built Machu Picchu? The Mayans. That was my guess. It's not. It's the
39:19
Incas. So all right. We're trying to work for a sea average here. Question number six.
39:23
Yeah, I do it. It is what it is. I took this test and I did about as well.
39:29
What is the difference between a simile and a metaphor?
39:33
Uh, simile uses like, like or, uh, as like or as bam. We'll give it to you, bam. You're three
39:43
and three. Here we go. Run the table. Joby. I believe in you science question. What body system
39:48
controls your breathing and heartbeat? Um, Golly, what is that called? The one that you don't think
39:54
about? Um, I don't know what that's called. I do have a biology degree. How funny is that?
40:02
Is the biology question? Which one controls breathing and heartbeat?
40:05
Which system? It's not muscular. It's not skeletal. It's not, uh, it's not endocrine.
40:12
It's, uh, I don't know the one that you don't think about. Um, three, two, one,
40:19
when you say nervous system, nervous system. All right, Jobe, we at least have to get
40:23
more than 50% here. So we got to get these last three. Okay. So really like buckle up here.
40:28
World history. Who was the first emperor of Rome? I didn't plan that out. Chad GBT did. Who
40:34
was the first emperor? Alexander to the great. I don't know. Cesar Augustus. Okay. Now we're
40:43
working for 50% 50% here. We got proof that God uses, you know, the ordinary to do extraordinary
40:49
things right here. And I just told Chad GBT to give me a bunch of random ones and they gave me all
40:53
this nonsense. What is the greatest common factor of 36 and 48? 12. Bam. Jobe. This is the last one.
41:04
We have a civics question. And if you get this right and you should totally get this right,
41:08
you're at 50% and gosh, if you hit 500, you're definitely going to the hall of fame. I mean,
41:12
not the like fifth grade hall of fame. But here we go. Last question, civics question.
41:16
What is the term for a government in which the people elect representatives to make laws?
41:23
A republic. It is a republic. Jobe Martin. You are not smarter than the fifth grader,
41:28
but you got half of a man. You got half of them. Good for you. Thanks to Dylan South Carolina
41:33
education. Hey, I will say if you had had private school education, maybe things would have been
41:38
better. Maybe you would have gotten six out of 10 or something like that. But Jobe, obviously,
41:42
we we've been in and out of a lot of different subject matters here. But anything else before
41:45
we let you get out of here? Well, I said, man, thank you. All right, talk soon. Thank you for
41:49
listening to this podcast. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate, and leave us a
41:53
positive five star review. If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast,
41:57
just shoot me an email to info@undonton.life. That's i-n-f-o @undonton.life. Follow us on Instagram
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and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else, including how to donate to
42:06
keep more content like this coming your way. Just go to www.undonton.life. And as always, we want to
42:12
thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for our content. The music on this
42:16
podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self-titled debut album on Face Down Records.
42:20
The links are in the description. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness,
42:26
keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
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