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Ask a Pastor with JOBY MARTIN | June 2025 (Ep. 764)

June 2, 2025 44m 05s Full transcript available
Ask a Pastor with JOBY MARTIN | June 2025 (Ep. 764)
0:00 / 44m 05s
In this episode, Kyle Thompson and Joby Martin tackle the complexities of faith, Catholicism, and the importance of standing firm in the truth of the Gospel. They discuss the differences between Protestant and Catholic beliefs, the significance of scripture, and how men can take a stand in today's culture.
Transcript
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0:50 This is undaunted life a man's podcast. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it.
0:56 Joe B. Martin, welcome back to the show. That is a fantastic hat. So how does it fit?
1:01 It fits great. Thank you. I like your hat. It's a great man. I got to tell you, branded bills,
1:07 they absolutely crush it. And that's like their new X Gen thing. So it's like all their stuff,
1:11 but reimagined and still super duper expensive. But it's also a great travel hat as I've found
1:17 out. And you just got back from my favorite city in the entire world. And I've had the privilege
1:24 of being able to kind of hopscotch around the world a little bit. But my favorite city I've
1:28 been to been there twice as Rome. It's just yeah, it's dirty city. There's graffiti everywhere. But
1:32 it's like, there's the Coliseum and there's the forum and there's, you know, St. Peter's and there's
1:36 all the stuff. And so were you there celebrating the new pope? Because you were there around the
1:40 time everybody was like freaking out in Rome, or were you supposed to be there anyway?
1:45 Yeah, it was just coincidence that we were there when the conclave happened. But it was awesome,
1:49 man. I mean, it was really it was cool. It was, I think that part made it better.
1:53 Okay, so like what did you do when you were like, so what were you there for? Was this just like
1:57 vacation or were you and did you take my advice and go check out some of the obscure off the
2:01 beaten past stuff? No, I got that advice too late. So I would already we were in Florence by the
2:06 time we got that it we it was like a pre trip. I'm going to be leading a footsteps of Paul trip
2:12 where we start. And like, I don't we'll probably go to the Alapat most and chase the seven churches
2:17 in Revelation and then make our way up through Greece to Rome. But I wanted to go first and just
2:23 kind of take some of it in. And so it was me and Gretchen and then a couple from the church that
2:28 we love dearly, the Niswiz. So we went. Okay, and so what, what did you see when you're in Rome,
2:34 were you able to see the Coliseum, the forum, the Pantheon, like all the stuff? All the stuff,
2:38 all the stuff, everything from stuff that meant a lot to us, like the sacred steps that Jesus
2:45 walked up to Pontius Pilates, you know, to be to be judged. That was pretty awesome. We saw the
2:50 the prison where Paul was chained and probably Peter also that was awesome. Even this, you know,
2:58 I mean, St. Peter's Basilica is impressive, like crazy. But you know, yeah, we saw all the things
3:04 that you would say. So were you able to go inside of St. Peter's? Because I don't know what the
3:09 Conclave going on. If things were shut down, did you get to see, you know, the Sistine Chapel,
3:13 the last judgment, you know, creation of Adam, all the stuff? The only thing we didn't see was
3:20 the Sistine Chapel, but we had a private Vatican tour that started at seven AM. It was even our
3:24 tour guides were like, this is unbelievable. There were, there were six of us just walking around
3:29 the entire Vatican by ourselves with a tour guide. It was, so that was pretty great. But the Sistine
3:35 Chapel, like we got to the door of the Sistine Chapel, and they were setting it up for the Conclave
3:40 to meet that day, like two hours later. So, you know, but it was cool.
3:45 Yeah, I will tell you, people don't really understand how big St. Peter's is until they go.
3:51 And then when you go into Sistine Chapel, you've seen, you've seen pictures and you've seen pictures
3:55 of the last judgment, which is on the wall, and you've, you've seen that. And so you think you're
3:59 ready for it. And it's similar in Florence. You think you're ready for the David. I don't know if
4:03 you got to see the David statue there, but you walk that hallway and then you turn to the right,
4:08 and there's a long hallway, and then there's the David. And it's just impossibly huge. It's just not
4:13 at all what you're expecting. And just even with the David, the detail, like even in the palm of the
4:18 hand where he's holding like the stone, you can see like the, you know, the little wrinkles and
4:23 other little skin details. And in San Francisco, you know, that little, that ligament right here,
4:28 like on your elbow, it only happens if you're if you're pinky as a, I mean, and to do that with
4:33 one piece of marble. I mean, it was, it was really awe inspiring, no doubt, you know, so, yeah,
4:38 I have trouble not like cutting my grass unevenly. And this dude's, you know, creating something like
4:44 that, like out of like one slab of marble. But obviously you were there, you're right,
4:49 you're right there before the conclave. By the way, the thing that I told him to go,
4:52 if you ever go to Rome, one super off the beaten path thing that you got to check out is called
4:56 bone church. And so this was like an early sect of Christianity that had kind of like an
5:01 outsized reverence for the dead. And so all of their mosaics on their walls and all of their
5:05 decorations are made out of human bones. And so like actual human bones. And so there, there you
5:10 go. So if you're ever in Rome, guys, you got a tour guide that knows the thing or two, make
5:13 sure you check out bone church. But you're there for the conclave. It obviously feels super Catholic
5:17 while you're there, you're walking through, you know, St. Peter's and all the different things.
5:21 And then, you know, by the time people are listening to this, yes, Pope Francis has passed away.
5:26 Hopefully he is with the Lord and enjoying the streets of gold right now. And then you've got
5:30 Pope Leo the 14th, first American Pope, all all the different things and people trying to figure
5:35 out, is he going to be liberal? Is he going to be conservative as if he's a political figure,
5:38 even though technically he kind of is. But then everybody kind of gets into the [inaudible] contest
5:43 about Catholics want to use that time to dunk on Protestants and obviously Protestants like
5:47 me love to dunk on the Catholics a little bit and kind of rib them just a little bit. But there
5:52 does become a bit of an issue with some certain scriptures that are either misapplied or used
5:57 as a bludgeon. And so obviously for me, 1 Timothy 2, 5, for there is one God and there is one mediator
6:02 between God and man, the man Christ Jesus. But then Catholics, Joby, and you've talked about this
6:08 before, they'll quote Matthew 16 versus 18 and 19. And I tell you, you are Peter and on this rock,
6:13 I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys
6:18 of the kingdom of heaven and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatever you
6:22 loose on earth shall be loose in heaven. So Catholics say, hey, there's been an unbroken line of popes
6:28 from Peter until today, which is historically inaccurate. But they say every single pope
6:34 was chosen by God. There wasn't a single pope that that wasn't chosen in even the super duper evil
6:39 ones, even the homosexual ones, even all the things, but everybody is like, no, no, no,
6:43 like it's been a perfect unbroken line. And so, and I've also, I know it's taken me a while to set
6:48 this up just because it's been in the air for the last couple weeks, Joby. But you know, Catholics
6:52 are saying like all these Christians saying things like solo scripture, it's like, well, the new
6:58 Testament wasn't even written fully for decades until after Jesus was done. And it wasn't combined
7:03 into a single document that we can, you know, put into a book and bind it and put it under our,
7:08 our, you know, under our armpit and then go on about our day. And before the printing press,
7:13 it wasn't even widely available. There would be like one Bible that was like chained to the
7:18 altar of your local Catholic church, right? And it wasn't just generally available. And so people
7:22 are like, Oh, what is the soul of scripture thing? So we'll take a minute to kind of unpack a lot
7:27 of these things because I knew I threw a lot at you. But I guess let's just start easy. Why aren't
7:30 you a Catholic, Joby? Because of that Bible. That's just simply it. And I'm not sure which one is
7:37 more foundational. Well, bottom line is Catholicism. And I'm not trying to dunk on people. I do believe
7:45 there are Catholics that have surrendered their life to the lordship of Christ, of course, of course,
7:48 with the best understanding that they have. But the core doctrine of the Catholic church
7:54 is not the gospel. It is a gospel plus works, period. They do not believe in the imputed righteousness
8:02 of Christ. They believe in the imparted righteousness of Christ. And imputed means if I believe when
8:09 Jesus died on the cross for me, it counted for me, and I surrender my life to him, call in the name
8:14 of the Lord, then I am imputed or reckoned with the righteousness of Christ. Catholics don't believe
8:19 that Catholic doctrine is there are some things that I must do to keep myself in a position of grace.
8:26 And if I do my part, God does his part and he will impart his grace upon me. See like baptism,
8:32 first communion, the sacraments, confession, et cetera. So bottom line, it is that Jesus's
8:39 life, death, and resurrection, and your belief in that your fate, your pursuit, oh,
8:44 in the propitiation of Jesus for your sins is not enough for salvation. Okay. So that's why I'm not
8:50 a Catholic. And the reason I know that is because of the scripture. That's why I'm saying, I'm not
8:56 sure which one goes first. I know fate is foundational, but the way we have fate is because of the revealed
9:00 word of God. So maybe it's a little bit chicken and egg there. Now, the problem with the Catholic's
9:05 view of scripture is there a sola scriptura is about authority. And our fundamental authority
9:14 here on this earth is the revealed word of God. In the Catholic church, they have three legs to
9:19 the stool of authority. They would say that the Bible is authoritative. And the pope's word is
9:24 authoritative. And whatever the councils and tradition of the church is authoritative.
9:30 What happens? Yeah, like, okay, so explain to me, Mariology. It's all made up, dude.
9:37 It's there's there's a few wonderful verses about what a blessed person that she is. But to create
9:43 a whole theology that she was always a virgin, the Bible itself says that she has sons and daughters,
9:48 that Jesus has brothers and sisters. Yeah. By the time you get to like the Renaissance,
9:54 they are painting pictures of Mary sitting on a throne with Jesus. And then councils come along
10:00 and say, yep, she is sitting on a throne next to Jesus. The problem with that is some people
10:05 just made that up. And so anytime you put man's opinion on par with the word of God, you've got a
10:12 real problem. That's where you get things like papal authority, papal infallibility, an unbroken
10:18 succession of popes from Peter. Dude, Pope wasn't even a Roman Catholic position until 1035.
10:24 Pope just comes from the word Papa from Italian means father. There were dozens of them for hundreds
10:30 of years. So why does the Bishop of Rome have some sort of special authority from God that the
10:37 Bishop of Florence doesn't? I can tell you why, because some people just made that up. Now,
10:41 very smart people. It's a very fancy hat with robes. But the moment you get to a place where
10:48 human ideas stand in judgment over the word of God, I'm out just like Martin Luther. He said,
10:57 the problem is, you know, your problem, Pope is the Bible. And so if you, I mean, even in current
11:06 Catholic dogma and doctrine, one of their counsel says, fate alone, salvation by faith alone,
11:14 is anathema. Right. That if you think faith in Christ will save you, you are damned to hell.
11:20 Well, like Martin Luther, he reads Romans chapter one, and he reads the only thing for the power of
11:26 salvation is the gospel itself. That's why I'm not a Catholic because of the Bible.
11:33 Well, one quick thing before we move off this, I appreciate all that. I mean, yeah, you make the
11:36 point about the Mary, the Mary stuff is very strange to me because the scripture clearly teaches
11:40 that Jesus had, I think was it for brothers and it said he had sisters. So that means at least two.
11:44 So you had six siblings, I guess you may be in column half siblings. But this idea that Mary was
11:49 this perpetual virgin, again, purgatory, like we don't see any scriptural basis for purgatory at all.
11:55 But I got an interesting email here recently, because I'm getting a lot of questions about
11:59 Eastern Orthodox, and I'm also getting questions about Latin mask Catholicism. So not like laps,
12:04 Catholic catholic, but kind of like super like fundamental like Latin mask type stuff. And someone
12:10 said, Hey, I'm trying to witness to my buddy right now, but he's being drawn to Catholicism. And he
12:15 says he likes the idea of praying to saints and asking the saints to pray for him. And this whole
12:21 idea of like praying to Mary, like I posted a video that I thought was, I thought it was a video
12:26 posted by some comedian, but it was an actually a Catholic priest trying to explain why they
12:30 they prayed to Mary. But it's like, Hey, sometimes God's busy. And it's like, you know, if your
12:35 friend was busy and you drop by their house, like you would maybe tell their mom like, Hey,
12:39 would you tell Jimmy that I stopped by? And then you know, I was thinking about him or something
12:42 like that. And I'm sitting there like, this can't be real. But it was it's super duper real. When
12:47 you talk to just kind of a general everyday Catholic, they're like, well, yeah, like, you know, I I
12:52 prayed to Mary, so she'll pray for me. I pray to the saints, people that have been sainted by men,
12:55 by the way, that were also just men. And then those people will send my prayers to God. And it's
13:01 like, I just wonder where we've lost the thread or where they've lost the thread, rather.
13:04 I'm not trying to be demeaning, but what I experienced in Rome was like the worst game of
13:10 telephone I've ever seen in my life. We're in the game of telephone. Of course, yeah. Well,
13:15 that's what's happened for 2000 years as there's been this crazy game of telephone. And I mean,
13:21 it all started with Jesus's proclamation that upon this rock, I will build my church.
13:25 And then that just got twisted and twisted and twisted and twisted into what we see now.
13:29 And so there are human beings that believe that the spirit inside of them is not enough,
13:35 that Christ's life, death and resurrection is not enough. And so they need some help. Even though
13:40 there are countless Bible verses about Jesus saying, come to me and I will give you rest,
13:46 knock in the door will be open, all these things. And so that is the fundamental problem. And so
13:50 the best way to talk to a Catholic is with the scripture. And so there's so many people in the
13:55 11 22 and they grew up Catholic and praise God for it because they have a reverence for the Lord
13:59 and even even a form of worship, but it was just so impersonal and works based that they have found
14:07 the good news of the grace of the gospel just to be a refreshing like glass of water in their
14:12 part soul. Very good. All right, let's move off of that. Let's move to a question from James.
14:17 He is a member of Dominion team one. So shout out to the Dominion team guys right now as I've
14:23 already announced or I haven't announced anything yet. Wait, wait until tomorrow's episode. Anyway,
14:27 here's a question from James. I'm from rural South Carolina. I grew up in a very Baptist setting.
14:33 Don't worry. We weren't playing with snakes or waving flags. My father was a pastor and we
14:37 were essentially taught to be the ultimate little rule followers combined with that. I almost always
14:43 felt like I was just on the verge of losing my salvation at all times. But that is what was
14:49 ingrained in me. If people have a fundamentalist and strict background, what would you tell them
14:53 about assurance of salvation? Yeah, you should read Romans over and over and over and over.
14:58 Back to our Catholic conversation. Same thing happened to Martin Luther. Martin Luther was tall
15:04 as a Catholic that he had to maybe he was saved by grace, but he had to earn his keeping. And so
15:11 he would just confess and confess and confess. And then he realized that we were saved by grace
15:16 alone through faith alone in Christ alone. And so Paul's letter to the Romans is fundamentally the
15:22 first eight chapters are just what the gospel is. Chapters 9, 10, 11 are Israel's role in the
15:29 consummation of all things. And then the 12 to the end is just so what does that mean for me today?
15:35 So if you would if you just want to consist that starting Romans three, read Romans chapter three
15:39 and Romans chapter eight over and over and over until the word of God changes your mind. That there is
15:45 by works of the law, no one will be justified in the sight of God. But we need an alien righteousness.
15:51 This is what Romans chapter three is all about. And that comes through faith in Christ. And then
15:55 by the time you get to chapter eight, at the end of Romans eight, you'll get one of the greatest
16:00 passages on the assurance of our salvation. There's nothing that could separate you from the love of
16:04 God. And so when you don't have assurance of your salvation, it's because there's there's some part
16:09 of the gospel or some part of the character in nature of God that you don't believe. And you
16:15 still think you saved you, but you did not. There's nothing that could separate you from the love of
16:20 God, even your doubts. Hey guys, real quick. So there you are. You're about to make some delicious
16:26 meat and you open up your cabinet and you freeze, you freeze because you look and you see you have
16:33 like three or four dozen different seasonings. But this seasoning is just for your wild game.
16:38 And this seasoning is really good on pork, but not really good on chicken. And you just kind of
16:42 lose your mind and eventually just reach up there and grab a random one. So here's the thing, guys,
16:46 I want you to stop getting jammed up by having too many options in the seasoning department.
16:50 It's time for you to have a go to seasoning for everything. And that's why I want to reintroduce
16:55 you to my friends over at G's seasoning. So this is a reintroduction because back in the day,
17:00 I think this was over the winter. I told you guys about G's seasoning. I was at my buddy,
17:04 Dale Brisby's house. We're about to shoot a podcast and all that. But he had made me some
17:08 steaks and I took one bite of this steak. And I was like, bro, what in the world was this seasoned
17:13 with? He gave me a bottle of G's seasoning. He told me a little bit about the story about it
17:17 being a small family owned operation in Texas and how they used to back in the 80s, just handout
17:22 bags of the seasoning out of the back of a store and things like that. But that they had started
17:26 bottling it and started selling it. And then I told you guys, wouldn't it be so cool if for the
17:31 Christmas season, if you guys bought some G's seasoning and you know what you guys did? Y'all
17:34 went out and bought it. And to those of you that have bought it, it has been an amazing thing for
17:38 you. All of you have loved it. So I'm glad to reintroduce them to you. So G's seasoning is an
17:42 all-purpose seasoning that is great on beef, pork, wild game, chicken, fish, eggs, veggies,
17:48 and guys, if you want a big boy hack, throw some G's on some popcorn. You can thank me later. So
17:52 guys, stop getting a bunch of different seasonings for all of your different meat dishes. Support a
17:57 small town American family business by going to G's seasoning.com. That is G S seasoning.com. Throw
18:04 some G's on that. Okay, again, that is G's seasoning.com. That's golf Sierra seasoning.com order today.
18:13 Yeah, sounds like all roads lead to Romans. So guys, keep that in mind as we move forward in this
18:18 particular podcast. But also, we need to talk to, well, maybe not this one with you, but hey,
18:23 guys, you know, spoiler alerts coming. Eric from the forging table, Eric Browning, he had a very
18:28 good, but very short question. Is it unbiblical to believe in luck?
18:32 Um, hmm. Well, I mean, ultimately God is sovereign over all things. So maybe he's sovereign over luck
18:44 to if that exists or chance or whatever. I mean, I'll tell you what's crazy. The New Testament,
18:49 one of the primary ways that they made major decisions, like replacing an apostle
18:56 is they pray, pray, pray, pray, pray, and cast lots. And they believe God was in charge of that.
19:02 So semantically, you know, one of the things I will say though, when people say, good luck,
19:07 I'll say I don't need luck. I have Jesus. So I, you know, I'm not a luck guy.
19:11 Yeah, I'm kind of one of the things for whatever reason, a couple of years ago,
19:16 whenever I was using the word luck, I was like, it just started to sound funny whenever I would
19:21 say it because it's just kind of a colloquial saying we just kind of say like, Hey, good luck,
19:25 break a leg, that type of thing. But it's like, okay, if everything is like kind of weaved together
19:30 and like nothing surprising to God, like, is it lucky that you found a quarter in the parking lot?
19:36 Yeah, but did bending down to pick it up, delay you just long enough to where you didn't go through
19:40 that intersection where a guy ran a red light? I don't know. That's why I hope that there's a big
19:44 amphitheater right kind of like the sphere in Vegas, but I hope that's in heaven. And then we can
19:49 just go to any point in history and just kind of watch, you know, the battle will run or watch that
19:54 one time when we should have died, but God, you know, saved us sovereignly or whatever. So here's the
19:58 next question is from me because I'm selfish. Here we go. If you feel guilty about a particular
20:04 sin before you become a Christian, is that your conscience or the Holy Spirit working on and in
20:11 you before you receive it? And so just kind of set that up because, you know, there's kind of the
20:18 law, the natural law that's kind of written onto our hearts. And then there are also things that
20:22 people are doing, like my wife and I were even just talking about this yesterday, it's like,
20:25 you don't even know it's a sin. And then maybe a pastor or sermon or something like that disabuses
20:30 you of that notion. Now you're responsible. Now you're a responsible agent because you know,
20:36 this is a sinful thing. And if you continue doing it, it's problematic. But before you become a
20:40 Christian, and before you get the Holy Spirit, what is that that makes you feel icky when you do
20:45 something bad? Yes, that is. I do think if you if you became a Christian, I do think that is the
20:51 wooing of the Holy Spirit. And there is no repentance without conviction. And if you if you look at the
20:58 sermon on the Mount, the way Jesus starts, it is blessed are the poor in spirit. So the precursor
21:03 to salvation is you realizing that you were spiritually bankrupt. So I think that is a very,
21:08 very positive thing in the human beings life when they realize, Oh, I'm a sinner because you'll never
21:15 know that you need a Savior if you don't realize that you are a sinner. Now on the other hand,
21:20 according to Romans chapter one, God has placed eternity like our his fingerprints are on us.
21:28 And so we are all without excuse because somehow deep in the heart of every person,
21:33 they know that we have exchanged worshiping the one true God for lesser gods. So I also think that
21:39 that kind of guilt or conviction is in the heart of every single person.
21:44 And some kind of one. Yeah, I've kind of wondered that because even if you have kids that you'll
21:49 have kids that'll manifest guilt like bodily like they'll get like a tummy ache when they do some
21:53 bad when they've lied to mommy or daddy and they can't really explain it. So it's like, Hey,
21:57 what is that before? Maybe they're just select, right? Because if you're in the club, you're in
22:00 the club, right? No, no one gets to choose. That's what you said anyway. Anyway, let's go to the next
22:05 question here. This is from Brad. Yeah, hey, I just kind of have to slide some things in there
22:10 every now and then and hope you just don't come back at it. But this is from Brad who is again,
22:14 what? Yeah, that dad gum Bible. I mean, but again, I got into Americans. We don't read our Bibles.
22:21 We just own them. We don't read them, right? We have six or seven of them. And we just
22:24 we got to blow the dust off whenever we take them to Easter, you know, unless except your church,
22:28 your church actually uses the Bible for whatever reason. Next question here. This is from Brad,
22:32 who is also a dominion team one guy. And he happens to go to church with you. So shout out to Brad.
22:39 How do we as Christians display appropriate righteous anger in the modern day in reference
22:45 to Jesus's display of flipping the tables in the temple? How do we flip modern day tables?
22:50 Are we even called to flip tables? What are some examples of tables that need to be flipped?
22:56 An example of a table, Brad, that you saw personally was when I went to war against
23:01 amendment four in Florida and then four was they were trying to pass a bill that you could have an
23:06 abortion for any reason or no reason up to the point of birth. It was just from it was from the
23:10 devil. So a lot of it, I mean, you named your deal dominion. So one of the things you got to pay
23:15 attention to is what do you have dominion over? So you have dominion over your home,
23:20 depending on where you are in your in your job, you may have dominion over certain areas of that,
23:24 or maybe the whole thing. The crazy thing about America is that we are run, this is a government
23:29 by the people and for the people. So we have dominion over this country, not the politicians.
23:34 And so, and one of the major ways that we can flip over tables, I mean, Jesus flipped over
23:41 those tables, that was his house. He flipped over to the tables in his house. So very, I mean,
23:47 practically speaking, a big part of the way we flip over tables is Christians must be very,
23:51 very, very politically active, but driven by the scriptures and led along by the Holy Spirit.
23:58 So, you know, not necessarily into like who your favorite personality is, but if our government
24:05 tries to prevent us from doing something the Bible says we ought to, or tries to make us do
24:11 something the Bible says that we should not do, then we have to be politically active and flip
24:16 over whatever table it takes. Now, the thing is that you have to understand is you also have to be
24:22 willing to put up with the consequences of it. So for instance, if they, if they ever pass hate
24:28 speech laws about what I can and cannot preach, then I've just got to know I'm going to preach the
24:35 truth of the Word of God. And if it lands me in jail, it lands me in jail. Now, I would fight it,
24:41 but that may be the consequence. But I think standing for the Lord one day with a clean conscience
24:46 is a higher value to me than not going to prison. Well, Joby, Kelsey and I, probably about a year
24:52 ago, we had a fairly intense conversation because I said, Hey, Kelsey, because of the growth, and
24:57 this was before the Daily Bladium. And I was like, because of the growth of the show and because of
25:00 my profile. And again, I'm not huge, but you know, I'm, I'm somewhat known. I was like, there could
25:05 be people that will target me. And if the laws change, and if this is before Trump had been elected,
25:11 like if things go poorly, and depending on pond who's in office, I could be arrested for the things
25:16 that I say and the things I advocate for, like for the unborn, and for not transing the kids and
25:21 things like that. And it's like, we just have to be okay with that. But it's like, I just need you
25:26 to be my helpmate. I need you to be my lioness, if something like that were to happen, because
25:30 for the sake of Christ, you would become a single mom. And that just just may be part of our story
25:35 and things like that. But I can't, I can't shut up. And I can't also censor myself at this point,
25:42 because the thing I always ask people, Joe, be on this flip in the table sling, because these
25:45 pacifistic kind of wussy Christian types, they're like, well, that was Jesus overturning the tables.
25:50 It was descriptive, not prescriptive. I was like, Hey, that's my quote. But also the biggest thing
25:55 about that problem is I asked these people, I'm like, okay, then let's go over some incendiary
26:01 topics. And you tell me what the moderate position is. What is the moderate position on murdering
26:06 murdering image bears of God in the womb? What's the moderate position? Hey, on transing the kids,
26:11 do we only cut off part of their testicles and part of their penis? Do we only shave part of their
26:17 arm to kind of sew it together to sew it under their crotch to make a phallic thing? Like, what
26:22 is the moderate position on some of these things? And they don't really like that question. It's
26:25 because they can't give us an answer. And it's like, yes, there are modern day tables that need to be
26:30 overturned. But again, we live in America, where you can say whatever you want without consequence,
26:34 right? Well, someday there may be consequences. And we just got to be able to have broad enough
26:38 shoulders to deal with it. Yeah. And I know you're not being dramatic, because it could be a
26:45 reality. I do think Florida and Oklahoma would be some of the last places where we lose religious
26:50 freedom. But it's the same conversation that every police officer, fire fire, person in the armed
26:59 services has to have with their spouse. Because of what God has called me to do, it's going to cost
27:06 you more, at least the risk of losing me and our family intact, because of the role that God has
27:13 called me to play. And I need you to have my back on that. I know mama bear is going to rise up
27:18 and be like, is this really best for our kids? You'd be like, I understand, but we are at war
27:25 in a more intense way in spiritual warfare. And just because it's spiritual doesn't mean it's not
27:30 actual. And so it may cost us, it could cost us our actual lives. You know, I've had, I'm sure you
27:36 have had death threats to have had several, but it also could could cost us, you know, our lives
27:41 in regards to our vocation and freedom. But that's just part of it, man. Like, dude, I was in Rome,
27:48 where Paul and Peter were in prison. And you know, you get to walk in the prisons, they still have
27:53 the chains that they think Paul was chained up with. And in that spot, Paul writes Philippians.
28:01 And he says, for me to live his Christ to die is game. So I want to live with that kind of freedom.
28:06 Yeah, I remember in college, walking through that same same place and seeing that this dark,
28:11 dank kind of underground, like a horribly uncomfortable place. And at the time, I didn't really have
28:17 the spiritual acumen or biblical acumen to really understand the gravity of what I was witnessing.
28:20 But it's like, wait, this is Paul. This is that guy. This is the dude. And shipwreck, snakebit,
28:27 betrayed by his friends, like left for dead multiple times, stoned, like, and it's not in the cool way.
28:32 Like that's the big, that's the guy, right? Peter crucified upside down. Basically,
28:37 the only apostle that had a decently mild death was John, but they did try to boil him alive at
28:42 one point. It just didn't work. And so it didn't work. This is my speculation. But you remember what
28:47 Jesus says to John on the cross? He basically says, Hey, my mother, my mom. Yeah. So I think
28:52 when the, when the Lord of heaven and earth, give you an assignment, you don't get to die until
28:56 your assignment's up. So, you know, that's what I think. So they couldn't kill him. Yeah, that's,
29:03 that's just kind of one of those things. But yeah, I appreciate going into detail in the
29:06 overturning the tables thing. So now we need to move to another donor. I don't know. I want you,
29:09 well, there's one other thing you, you have this quote that I love so much back. I never
29:13 remember it. It's so pithy. When you were talking to chain clay horn, when you talk about what do
29:18 you, what do you say when you, the pacifist who's counting on somebody else to defend them? What do
29:23 you, how do you say it? I think it was towards the end. Oh, I don't know what my pithy statement
29:31 is. But I told him, I said, like, hopefully you and I are breaking bread one day, somebody
29:34 somewhere in Philadelphia. But if someone comes in there and tries to take us out, it's guys like
29:38 you that are going to be hiding behind guys like me hoping that I take out the threat before he gets
29:42 to you. Yeah. And what those guys do is abdicate their responsibility. And, and they mostly, but
29:49 it's almost like they contract out safety for other people to other people. And God has given me
29:55 dominion on it. Yeah, I'm not going to outsource. I'm not going to outsource my violence to the
30:01 government. That's it. Yeah. Good for you. When I think about it the same way as this. So, so just
30:06 going a little further on that vein, I was talking recently to someone that comment. Oh, oh, it was
30:12 when things were going wrong for Christians that were being beheaded in the Congo and things happening
30:17 in Nigeria. Well, there was a time when the government was for those people. And so if you
30:22 outsource your violence to that local government and there for you, so I live in Edmond, Oklahoma.
30:27 And so if I call the Edmond Police Department and there's an emergency, they're going to come with
30:32 sirens blaring, right? That's just what they're going to do. But if there were a time or if I lived
30:37 in a place where they're not for me, whether it's because of who I am or because I'm a Christian,
30:42 and I've outsourced my violence to them and allowed them to train for violence,
30:46 well, they're not going to protect me. And so it's like, okay, it sounds like a good idea. And then
30:51 you should just start breaking it down. It's like, okay, I don't need to learn how to be violent.
30:54 I mean, I got dudes in my own like inner circle that like they don't train to fight. They're very,
30:58 very soft dudes. And it's just kind of like, Hey, if some goes wrong, I'll call the police. I was
31:02 like average response time for police for 911 in America is about seven minutes. That's if they call,
31:07 that's if they respond at all. And so it's like, you're in a situation where seconds matter and help
31:13 is potentially minutes away. And all you have is your soft hands and your unwillingness to pull
31:18 out a firearm because your wife thinks they're icky and scary. It's like, okay, so that's the
31:23 problem right there. I just had an elder meeting and we were talking about fear and what it means
31:28 to be a man. And I think one of the greatest fears most men have is they fear the emotions of their
31:33 spouse. And therefore they don't lead the way they were called to lead. I mean, you get, I mean,
31:38 it's a little bit of speculation because there's no commentary on why Adam didn't do anything.
31:42 But that's what got her to send to this hell hole to begin with is because a man was probably
31:47 afraid because his wife wanted something even though he knew she wasn't supposed to have it.
31:51 And instead of stepping up, he didn't do anything. And then, and then all hell breaks loose. I mean,
31:56 literally, and I'm not just talking about the place you go if you don't believe in Jesus.
31:59 I'm talking about there will be a living hell that you live in right now. If you can't
32:03 provide, protect, be the prophet, priest, and servant king of what God has given you dominion
32:09 over. That's, that's what it means to be a man. Well, it's so funny you bring up Shane
32:12 Clayborn. That was one of the most fun things I've ever gotten to do because Justin Breyer
32:16 really reached out to me and said, Hey, I'd like to do, uh, you know, an anti second amendment,
32:21 pro second amendment debate. And you know, you're a gun guy, right? And I'm like, Justin,
32:26 I think I've talked about second amendment once or twice on my show up to that point.
32:29 It's not even the top 10 list of things that I normally talk about. It's just kind of like a
32:32 thing in my life. But I'm like, sure, I'll go bust a stewed up for an hour. That's fine.
32:35 But there was one point where I knew like, Joby, I've been playing this for weeks. So guys,
32:39 if you're not familiar, look for unbelievable Shane Clayborn, Kyle Thompson on YouTube.
32:44 And you know, I knew I was going to have limited time, but I just knew I was going to hit him
32:48 with the scenario because he lives in Philadelphia. He doesn't have kids, but he is married. And so,
32:51 I put him in this situation. Glass breaks in the middle of the night. Okay. You know, you go to
32:57 investigate. You don't see anything. You come back to your room and there's a bad guy in the room
33:03 with your wife. He's about to kill her or worse, right? What are you going to do, Shane? He said,
33:09 well, I would call the police. I was like, great. Let's say the response time that seven minutes.
33:13 So hit your time or on your watch. You got seven minutes. Now what? Well, you know,
33:17 I would try to, you know, talk him down or whatever. And I'm like, Oh, okay. So but he's not going to
33:22 be talked out of what he's there for. He's there in the middle of the night. So he's not there for
33:24 your television. He's there for for y'all. Okay. Well, then I would, I would do anything I can to try
33:29 and stop him, right? And so I'm like, including what? He's like, I would, I would grab a chair,
33:34 I would grab a whatever. And I'm like, okay, this is where we fundamentally disagree.
33:38 Or sorry. Let me. Yeah. So what's the difference in a chair and just a better chair that can throw
33:45 in a chair is real fast. Right. This is what I hit him with. I said, look, that's where we have,
33:50 like some, some agreement. It's like, we, we want to protect our spouse and we want to do all those
33:56 different things. But where we disagree is you want the fight to not be fair in the favor of the
34:01 wolf. And I want the fight to not be fair in the favor of you. Because if some guy breaks into my
34:06 house with, you know, potato gun, I'm not going to meet force with force. I'm going to outdo that
34:10 force with a force multiplier to end the threat. And so I got him to admit that he was willing to
34:16 do violence, a pacifist. I got a pacifist to admit that he was willing to do violence to protect
34:19 something and someone that he loved. But I just couldn't get him to the place to where it's like,
34:23 why in the world would you want the fight to not be fair where you're in the losing end? It's like
34:28 it makes no sense. But again, he just kind of like Paul, you know, man, or past it. If I was talking to
34:33 him, I would, I would say, listen, Paul told Timothy, the man that does not provide for his
34:41 relatives is worse than the unbeliever. That does not just mean food and shelter. It also
34:45 means provision and protection. So if you cannot provide protection to some reasonable degree,
34:52 then you are worse than an unbeliever. I've told guys that the guys that don't want to fight,
34:59 don't want to train to fight, they think grappling zicky, they think, you know, striking just isn't
35:03 fun. They'd rather go play golf, they'd rather play Pokemon or whatever thing is, it's like,
35:07 okay, man, no one's saying that you have to be an MMA fighter to be a good husband. But if you
35:12 can't, if you can't use your body and use these to protect your spouse and your loved ones,
35:17 it's like I don't really understand that. I mean, to be well equipped. I mean,
35:20 think about it, man, the founders of this country, you're like, you know what? The greatest idea we
35:23 have is freedom of speech and religion. That's number one. And then somebody goes, then you know
35:29 what number two better be guns. Yeah, to protect the first right and look at the early churches,
35:35 some of the early Puritan churches here in American different things like that, the men
35:38 on the inner aisles, right? So on the pews on the inner aisles, all carried muskets,
35:45 all of them. Because in case somebody tried to do something, they could literally just turn around,
35:50 they're already there in the aisle. I talked to a guy that's highway patrolman that goes to our
35:54 church every time I see him, he's always sitting on the last seat. Because if something goes wrong,
35:59 he's going to be one of the first people into the fray. You know what I mean? So all right,
36:02 we got a couple more things here before we get you out of here. First one, this should be a quick
36:05 one. But Zach, this is from a donor. Zach, thank you for being a monthly donor. If the people in
36:09 the Old Testament did not have the Holy Spirit, how did they fight against sin and temptation in
36:14 their own lives? The law, the law was there to help guide them in the right direction. Now,
36:20 it would just show them that they needed more than the law, they needed a savior.
36:24 But it was also, it was a three year credit society and everybody was playing by the same rules and
36:30 laws. And so that was the primary way. But it was lacking. It was like, you know, Paul calls it like
36:35 a babysitter. So it wasn't enough, but it was at least enough to direct them in the right way to
36:40 keep them out of, at least, at least they knew what direction to go. Okay, very good. Well,
36:47 now we're getting to the last thing. And so we'll try to get through this as quickly as possible.
36:51 But Joby, you kind of have your all shucksy wisdom up there. You're like, I'm just from
36:55 deal in South Carolina, blah, blah, and all things. But everybody knows you're smart. You can read,
37:00 you can write, like you can, you can string sentences together, but we don't know quite
37:03 how smart you are. And the only way we can know for sure is to test that. And so I decided to have
37:11 chat GPT set up some questions from, are you smarter than a fifth grader? Okay. So I got the
37:18 inspiration because Jeff Foxworthy, he hosted that show for forever. He's coming to speak of the
37:22 men's conference here in October. Guys, get your tickets, get your tickets, church 1122 men's
37:26 conference. Jeff Foxworthy will be there. So I've got 10 questions that are fifth grade level
37:32 questions and all kinds of categories. I just had chat GPT do it at random. And here's the thing,
37:36 Joby, if you get all 10 of them, right, you get a million dollars. Okay. Like from from Tiibo or
37:42 somebody, like you'd have to like, you know, ask around the church or something like that. But
37:45 you get, you get a million bucks if you get these 10 rights. So are you prepared for this?
37:49 Probably not. But go for it. Fan freakin task. Here we go. Question number one,
37:54 fifth grade level for a geography. What is the longest river in South America?
37:59 The Amazon, the Amazon one for one number two. This is a US government question. How many
38:09 amendments are there to the US Constitution? Oh Lord. Oh, you know that.
38:14 Hey, do my trial. I don't know the baseball. What is it? 20?
38:20 I don't know. Two, three, four somewhere there. Give it to us. Come on. I don't know. 24.
38:29 27. No million dollars. But we'll see how, how, how good you can get out of out of 10 here.
38:35 All right. Third question. This is math. What is three force divided by one half?
38:43 Um, three eights. It is three seconds or one and a half. So I think you have to like
38:52 inverse it and then, you know, count it up. So all right, we can still get a B. If you,
38:56 if you run the table, we can still get a B here. Okay. Fourth question. This is science.
39:01 What causes the tides on earth? The moon. That's right. Gravitational pool, the moon and the sun
39:07 will give it to you. Bam, bam. You're two and two. Here we go. Fifth question history.
39:11 Which ancient civilization built Machu Picchu? The Mayans. That was my guess. It's not. It's the
39:19 Incas. So all right. We're trying to work for a sea average here. Question number six.
39:23 Yeah, I do it. It is what it is. I took this test and I did about as well.
39:29 What is the difference between a simile and a metaphor?
39:33 Uh, simile uses like, like or, uh, as like or as bam. We'll give it to you, bam. You're three
39:43 and three. Here we go. Run the table. Joby. I believe in you science question. What body system
39:48 controls your breathing and heartbeat? Um, Golly, what is that called? The one that you don't think
39:54 about? Um, I don't know what that's called. I do have a biology degree. How funny is that?
40:02 Is the biology question? Which one controls breathing and heartbeat?
40:05 Which system? It's not muscular. It's not skeletal. It's not, uh, it's not endocrine.
40:12 It's, uh, I don't know the one that you don't think about. Um, three, two, one,
40:19 when you say nervous system, nervous system. All right, Jobe, we at least have to get
40:23 more than 50% here. So we got to get these last three. Okay. So really like buckle up here.
40:28 World history. Who was the first emperor of Rome? I didn't plan that out. Chad GBT did. Who
40:34 was the first emperor? Alexander to the great. I don't know. Cesar Augustus. Okay. Now we're
40:43 working for 50% 50% here. We got proof that God uses, you know, the ordinary to do extraordinary
40:49 things right here. And I just told Chad GBT to give me a bunch of random ones and they gave me all
40:53 this nonsense. What is the greatest common factor of 36 and 48? 12. Bam. Jobe. This is the last one.
41:04 We have a civics question. And if you get this right and you should totally get this right,
41:08 you're at 50% and gosh, if you hit 500, you're definitely going to the hall of fame. I mean,
41:12 not the like fifth grade hall of fame. But here we go. Last question, civics question.
41:16 What is the term for a government in which the people elect representatives to make laws?
41:23 A republic. It is a republic. Jobe Martin. You are not smarter than the fifth grader,
41:28 but you got half of a man. You got half of them. Good for you. Thanks to Dylan South Carolina
41:33 education. Hey, I will say if you had had private school education, maybe things would have been
41:38 better. Maybe you would have gotten six out of 10 or something like that. But Jobe, obviously,
41:42 we we've been in and out of a lot of different subject matters here. But anything else before
41:45 we let you get out of here? Well, I said, man, thank you. All right, talk soon. Thank you for
41:49 listening to this podcast. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate, and leave us a
41:53 positive five star review. If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast,
41:57 just shoot me an email to info@undonton.life. That's i-n-f-o @undonton.life. Follow us on Instagram
42:03 and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else, including how to donate to
42:06 keep more content like this coming your way. Just go to www.undonton.life. And as always, we want to
42:12 thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for our content. The music on this
42:16 podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self-titled debut album on Face Down Records.
42:20 The links are in the description. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness,
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Kyle Thompson
The core doctrine of the Catholic church is not the gospel. It is a gospel plus works, period.
Joby Martin
If you cannot provide protection to some reasonable degree, then you are worse than an unbeliever.
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