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0:30
(Music)
0:50
This is Undaunted Life A Man's Podcast.
0:53
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
0:55
Let's get into it.
0:56
Joe B. Martin, you're back on the "Vaunted Amazing Adaunted Life A Man's Podcast."
1:01
But I just got to say, I don't know what your problem is here.
1:04
Because sunburns are my thing, okay?
1:06
Because I'm a ginger.
1:07
If I go outside for more than like three or four minutes at a time,
1:10
I end up looking like a tomato.
1:12
But I know that you recently did beach baptism.
1:14
Is that's what's going on with the face right now?
1:16
Did you forget to put some sunscreen on?
1:19
What's going on? Why are you so red?
1:21
No, I just stepped out of the sauna like 10 minutes ago.
1:25
So that's the red face.
1:27
Okay, well, how long did you do in the sauna?
1:29
Like, and what temperature was it at?
1:30
Because all the people want to know
1:31
just to what level you're torturing yourself at.
1:34
So it's an infrared sauna.
1:36
So it doesn't get like crazy hot like some of the others,
1:38
but it's got all the light therapy stuff.
1:40
And so I did 40 minutes at 170.
1:44
Okay, very good.
1:46
And guys, that's a decent temperature to do a brisket at too.
1:49
If you're going to do a brisket for a very, very long time,
1:51
so if you fall asleep and they're just be careful,
1:54
you might be someone's dinner later on.
1:55
But we're going to get into the questions and guys as always.
1:58
If you want to get your question,
1:59
enter it in for this so you can ask a pastor with Joby Martin.
2:02
You've got to be a monthly donor.
2:03
And as always, I do my question first because I'm selfish.
2:06
But first question, because I thought this was super cool.
2:10
By the time this comes out, it will have happened,
2:12
you know, a couple of months ago.
2:13
But recently you were talking about your dad at a sermon
2:17
at the San Pablo campus.
2:18
And I believe your dad was there.
2:20
And your dad actually got a standing ovation.
2:24
From the people that you were delivering the sermon to,
2:27
to the church of 11, 22ers.
2:28
So I just want to ask you what that was like because it wasn't like you said,
2:32
all right, guys, and on three, two, one, stand up and clap for my father.
2:35
This was just something that happened.
2:37
And so I'm like, okay, how did that make you feel?
2:39
How did that make Papa Martin feel?
2:41
Yeah, man, it's cool.
2:42
So the story of my dad and my church, you know,
2:45
I talk about him a lot when I preach.
2:47
And I prayed for a salvation for 30 years before he surrendered to Christ.
2:52
So that was just like three years ago.
2:54
And so again, our church knows that story.
2:56
And they knew the angst of me praying for his salvation for all those years.
2:59
And also they know that I've always said he's a good dad.
3:04
So when I was like, uh, when I was coming to faith as a teenager,
3:07
the Bible would talk about the fact that God is a good father.
3:10
That made a lot of sense to me because I got a good dad.
3:13
And so just from stage, I just thanked him, thanked him for raising me
3:17
and, and my brothers away did and loving us and pouring into us.
3:21
And I wouldn't be the man I am without who he is in my life.
3:25
And so I was just trying to honor him.
3:27
And then the church just surprisingly took over.
3:32
And it was, it was pretty awesome, man.
3:35
He shook him up pretty good in all the right ways.
3:37
Okay.
3:39
So you mentioned that it shook him up.
3:40
I remember you saying that somewhere else, but like, what does that mean?
3:44
Like, because you could be shook up in a lot of ways that aren't good.
3:48
That means like he, he didn't cry because, you know, he works out.
3:51
He has hobbies.
3:52
Yeah, you don't do that.
3:53
But he could tell he got a little, he got a little choked up, got a little teared up.
3:56
Okay.
3:57
Very good.
3:57
Well, I thought that was a very honoring thing because again,
4:00
that's like an extension of honor because you talked about, you know,
4:03
one thing that men, especially Christian men don't do very well as we don't.
4:06
Oh, what is it?
4:08
Where we try to outdo one another and honor.
4:11
And so people were honoring him through you, but also directly to him for you.
4:16
So it was, it was a cool moment, even though I didn't see it,
4:18
just even hearing it through the podcast feed.
4:21
I thought that was awesome.
4:22
But we're going to go and get into the first donor question.
4:25
This is from James.
4:26
So this is more like a life scenario thing.
4:28
So I'm going to take you through this.
4:29
And hopefully his decision hasn't been made yet.
4:32
So that you can give him a little bit of feedback.
4:34
Okay.
4:35
I'm retired from the United States Air Force after a 30 year career last year.
4:39
And we relocated to Alaska where I am now an airline pilot.
4:43
During my Air Force career, we lived in Hungary for four years.
4:46
And we did a tour where I was a commander for a multinational organization.
4:50
As a Christian surrounded by mostly unbelievers,
4:52
I often thought of Joseph in Egypt where he cared for a nation of pagans
4:56
as that was part of God's purpose for him.
4:59
Now, I possibly have an opportunity to return to Hungary in a different role
5:03
as a NATO civilian executive at the same multinational organization.
5:07
Despite much thought and prayer, if I were to get offered this job,
5:11
I am struggling with the decision, whether to go back or to stay in Alaska
5:15
in my current role.
5:17
Do you think God's purpose can be caring for a largely pagan organization
5:21
as a Christian leader?
5:23
Can it be that simple?
5:24
I'm struggling to know if this is his purpose for my new phase of life
5:28
after a military career versus remaining in Alaska as an airline pilot,
5:32
which I thought was his plan.
5:34
So this is a very specific scenario that I'm paying for you,
5:38
Joby.
5:38
Again, a lot of people kind of find themselves in this where you're like,
5:41
wait, I thought I was doing God's plan.
5:43
But now it feels like I'm being yanked here, which also seems like God's plan.
5:46
But if I stay, maybe it's wrong.
5:48
If I go, maybe it's wrong.
5:49
What the heck do I do?
5:50
Yeah, that's a great question.
5:52
First of all, thanks so much for serving people like you and me
5:56
wouldn't be able to do this without brothers like that.
5:58
Amen.
5:58
It means life on the line.
5:59
So thank you for that.
6:00
Martin Luther, I think it's Martin Luther.
6:04
Maybe John Calvin, I can't remember.
6:05
One of them said you're either a missionary or a liar.
6:10
If you're a believer in Jesus, you are either a missionary or a liar.
6:14
And so either way, you're called to be a missionary.
6:17
The real question is, is what is your role in the Great Commission?
6:22
Because those are the marching orders of every single believer on the planet.
6:27
My guess is you could probably do that.
6:29
Well, I know that you could do that no matter where you are.
6:32
So I don't know if God has like a specific, like,
6:38
you have to do A and not B, or if it's just general
6:42
that makes sure you were on mission as you were on the go wherever you go.
6:46
So the only way I know to distinguish between the two
6:50
is something that I can't do for this guy.
6:52
John 10 says that Jesus is the good shepherd,
6:56
that he speaks to his sheep and his sheep hear his voice.
7:00
And so you really got to pray and just dial in
7:03
and you need to pray with your Bible open.
7:05
And wherever you go, you've got to be on mission for the glory of God,
7:09
sharing the gospel.
7:10
But even when you do that, sometimes you don't have a,
7:15
like I know for sure what God wants me to do.
7:17
So at some point, you just got to pray, guess, and go.
7:20
And pray to the point where if you get it wrong,
7:24
and you are heading in the wrong direction,
7:26
you could trust that God will send a big fish, swallow you up,
7:28
and spit you out on the shore that you were supposed to be at.
7:32
So in a more practice, because obviously I would cosign that
7:36
because you've talked about that, I think even on these segments,
7:39
so you know, pray, guess, and go.
7:40
There are times when the fish doesn't come,
7:46
because that's pretty obvious.
7:47
Like, hey, you were in the wrong spot at the wrong time,
7:49
like this is not happening.
7:51
There are other times when you do what you fervently believe
7:54
is what God has for you.
7:56
And you think all the negative signs that happen there after,
8:00
that's just my challenge.
8:02
That's just where I need to cling to faith.
8:04
And that's just something like that's just the haters,
8:05
that's just Satan, like that's just whatever.
8:08
And so you're not seeing it or putting it in the correct category
8:11
of God's trying to get your attention to tell you no more on,
8:13
this is not the direction I wanted you to go.
8:15
But then, you know, there are times where it's like,
8:17
hey, God's gonna allow things to happen to you
8:19
so that you will lean on him and so that you can overcome.
8:22
Does that make sense?
8:22
Yeah, we are not really good sign readers in the moment.
8:26
So I would be way more apt to look at what the scripture says
8:31
versus whatever sign I'm reading.
8:33
This is where also, first of all,
8:37
it's got to be in line with what the scripture says.
8:39
He's not going to tell you something individually different.
8:41
Also, this is why the, he walks with the wise grows wise.
8:46
So hopefully he's got some foxhole brothers.
8:49
He could run this by or maybe some authorities at his church
8:52
that love him and care about him.
8:54
And he could get input from wise counsel, from other people.
8:59
That's what I would encourage.
9:00
Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the concept of foxhole
9:03
because again, there are certain times in life.
9:05
And even here recently for me,
9:07
I had some really, really big decisions I needed to make.
9:09
Some were business related, some were personal related.
9:12
And my goodness, like when you're in the thick of something,
9:15
like you just can't see clearly,
9:17
even if you're a wisdom-filled individual.
9:20
And so you need someone that's at least somewhat removed
9:23
from your situation because they're not you
9:25
and they're not living through it to just say like,
9:28
hey, I know you feel that way.
9:29
And I got a lot of this because people kind of know
9:31
that I'm a little bit of a crazy person.
9:33
So they'll start petting me and be like, Kyle, it's okay.
9:37
Like look at me, look at me right here.
9:38
Look, I've got a cigar right here.
9:40
And I've also got a candy bar.
9:41
Look, look, things are good.
9:43
But then they'll be like, brother,
9:44
how about we just tweak it a little bit like this?
9:46
Because my guys and my foxhole know they can't just be like,
9:49
no, this is a dumb idea.
9:51
Because it's like, they know I've done at least some thought on this.
9:54
So I'm in generally the right direction.
9:57
But the guys in my foxhole are great nudgers.
10:00
They'll be like, bro, you're pointed sorta in the right direction,
10:04
but you're going to miss your destination by about 15 degrees west.
10:08
Like let's just course correct just a little bit.
10:10
But again, you talk about that all time.
10:12
Guys don't have that.
10:12
They don't have corner toaters.
10:14
And they kind of do that to themselves as well.
10:16
I would add one thing too.
10:17
I would, I would, I'd really be interested in what his wife thinks
10:21
if he's married.
10:24
At least in my life, man, Gretchen has just is such a source of wisdom.
10:28
What one time I heard somebody say that the reason you should listen to the advice of your
10:35
wife is nobody loves you like she does, knows you like she does, and is less impressed than she is.
10:41
So that's a really great combination to get good advice from.
10:45
That is true.
10:47
She's not normally standing there in awe at how smart you are.
10:50
It is kind of funny. I'll go to do some speech somewhere and I'll come home and I'll say
10:54
something similar to what I said on stage.
10:55
I was like, it's like it doesn't land.
10:57
It's like you're bombing as a comedian.
10:58
It's just like, well, that was really funny to a group of 400 guys like 12 hours ago.
11:03
Now here I am getting crickets.
11:05
All right.
11:05
Next question here, this one's from me again because, well, I say it's from me,
11:10
but I've been asked this by other people before.
11:12
And it's been one of those things that I've also wondered about.
11:15
It's about bad words.
11:16
Okay.
11:17
It's about cursing because if you go to the Bible,
11:19
you don't get a list of words or phrases that can or can't be used.
11:24
Whenever I've, I've interacted with pastors before, that have said, hey, I use bad language
11:30
because when I use it around non-Christians, it makes them feel better.
11:33
And then you have other people that are like, you know, if a pastor says the word sucks
11:38
from stage, he has disqualified himself from ministry.
11:42
And obviously I've taken some liberties and, you know, episode four of my podcast
11:46
has called what it is and I've lost a lot of money because of the name of that podcast
11:50
because I'll get a speaking gig booked and then the elders will go review my podcast
11:53
and they'll see that I use the P word that they don't particularly like.
11:57
And then they're like, oh, we can't have that guy on stage.
11:58
He's, you know, he's a loose cannon.
12:00
And so I've always wondered about this because I've been around both types.
12:05
I've been around pastors that are literally choir boys and they don't even say the word sucks.
12:10
And I've been around pastors that just light it up.
12:12
And you're like, do you realize where you are?
12:14
But at the same time these pastors wouldn't talk from the stage behind the pulpit
12:19
with a mic on their face and use the same language.
12:22
And so yeah, it's a pastor question, but it's also just a dude question because it's like,
12:26
hey, are we allowed to say these words?
12:28
Like what, you know, is there a particular word that no matter the context is bad to use?
12:32
So help me here.
12:33
Yeah, it's complex.
12:36
Personally, I'm definitely not the speech police, you know,
12:44
but a part of the reason I try not to have cuss words in my regular vocabulary is
12:52
because I don't want that to be normal words that I use for the sake of I preach, you know,
12:56
pretty extemporaneously.
12:58
And I don't want to just be saying cuss words and be like, oops, didn't mean to say that there.
13:02
Now, yeah, I will say context matters.
13:05
Ephesians 4.29 says, let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths,
13:10
but only such as is good for building up as it fits the occasion that it may give grace to those
13:16
who hear it.
13:17
So there are different occasions.
13:20
So me and you by a campfire just happens to be a different occasion than me preaching in a sermon.
13:28
And also, it's often the heart behind it.
13:32
So if my grandma said to you, bless your heart, that is not a compliment.
13:36
All the words sound sweet, but she just said, you're too dumb to talk to.
13:40
But if you and I are lifting or training together,
13:44
there is a way that you would, we would actually bless one another by using some really aggressive
13:51
language that my grandmother would not be comfortable with.
13:54
Now, but we shouldn't use the kind of words.
14:01
Well, one of the things I would say to people, even non-believers,
14:07
if you're going to be a cusser, people have made it so casual that it's lost all of its power.
14:11
And just from a communicating standpoint, I would reserve powerful words for powerful moments,
14:18
or those words just are meaningless.
14:20
So I think the heart of the word has as much or more to do with it.
14:26
And why are you using certain words?
14:29
Is it because you're trying to fit in, you know?
14:32
So to the guy that's cussing so that his lost friends get saved, I don't know.
14:36
I think you would want to dig into that a little bit, but at least on the surface,
14:40
the defense may be, hey, I'm becoming all things to all people that I might save some.
14:45
But I think as a general rule,
14:48
it shows a sign of maybe a lower sense of intelligence if you go just to the bottom shelf
14:57
cuss words for effect, and there's probably some ego and insecurity going on in you
15:03
if you feel like you have to use certain words to fit in with a certain group of people.
15:07
So I would try to get to what's under that.
15:11
Well, so, Joby, that actually attaches to something that I've dealt with here specifically on this show.
15:16
So there was a time, there was a news story that I think I talked about last year,
15:21
something like that horrific news story.
15:23
It was this gay couple that adopted these two brothers and not only were they raping these boys,
15:28
they were systematically pimping them out to their gay pedophilic friends to rape as well.
15:33
And so I was covering this story again, the stories that nobody wants to cover,
15:36
but here I am like marinating in it.
15:38
And I was going to read the transcript from these people's text messages that they were
15:42
sending back and forth between them and their pedophilic friends.
15:46
And there were literally the F word for sex, okay?
15:49
And it was like, hey, I'm going to F my son tonight, I got to go.
15:53
Like it's that type of language.
15:55
And so I was going to say it.
15:56
I was just going to read the transcript as it read.
15:59
I was going to break the F bomb ceiling on my show or whatever.
16:04
But I talked to a couple of guys in my foxhole and I told them what I was planning to do.
16:11
And one of them was like, yeah, I don't know that I would do it,
16:15
but it would make sense that you would do it.
16:17
I was like, okay, but then another guy was very much so like, yeah, I don't really see the point.
16:22
I don't know that saying it makes your point any more fervently.
16:27
And I fervently disagreed with him at the time.
16:30
But what I decided, Joby, was when the episode comes.
16:33
And when I get to that point of the episode and I'm reading the transcript,
16:37
I will decide right then, which is not my normal MO, I'm a pre-decider, right?
16:41
And in the moment, I chose not to.
16:43
I chose to just say the F word or whatever, something like that.
16:47
So in that moment, I'm not asking you for past permission.
16:50
Like should I have said that?
16:51
But my feeling was this is so horrific that this is under on life, a man's podcast.
16:57
I'll put the explicit label on this episode.
17:00
I don't care.
17:01
I feel like it needs to be said, but in the moment, something just didn't feel right.
17:05
And I didn't say it.
17:06
Yeah.
17:06
I mean, I would caution against it, but I don't know why I'm thinking that.
17:10
Like I don't know if it is fear and self-preservation and fear of man.
17:14
And I think we've got to be honest enough to say that, you know?
17:16
Because there are some things that you say, because I think I listen to pretty much every single episode.
17:23
And there are some things that you say and I'm like, come on, man.
17:27
Like, but all I'm all I'm thinking is probably would have advised against that.
17:31
But I don't know if it's just because I'm getting old and soft.
17:33
Like I don't know.
17:34
I don't know.
17:36
I think it's important to like, I mean, I have a board of elders and if they tell me,
17:41
hey, man, you can't use that language, then I need to submit to that.
17:44
So, but I want to do what the Bible says.
17:49
So if you think about it, I'm teaching through the book of Galatians right now.
17:52
Holy moly, Paul, at one point to the Judaizers who believe that you couldn't be saved if you
17:59
weren't circumcised.
18:01
He says, in the Greek, the next time, don't just take off the foreskin, but cut your entire penis
18:09
and balls off.
18:09
He says, emasculate yourself.
18:12
Well, that doesn't, that's that's strong language, right?
18:16
It's pretty rough.
18:17
In Philippians, when he says, he gives his resume of all the things that he has accomplished.
18:24
And he's like, but compared to Christ, I compare all of this to the Greek word is scubylon.
18:29
It gets translated rubbish, because I don't know if you've seen very many Bible translators,
18:34
but, you know, they don't use bad words, apparently.
18:36
That's not what the word is.
18:37
It's not rubbish.
18:38
It's slang for animal dung.
18:40
So BS is what it, and I don't even want to, I'm not going to cuss on your show,
18:46
but the actual meaning of bowl scubylon in our context is way is a much better translation.
18:56
And Paul was trying to be offensive there, but, but offensive in a way that built up the church
19:04
so that they would know what a big deal it is to equate works with righteousness in both
19:11
situations.
19:12
So he uses a shocking word.
19:14
Well, I think we would shock our audience right now.
19:17
If you just drop the up bomb, so just let it rip and just go, just do it.
19:20
Just do it right now.
19:20
Do it.
19:21
Joby, do it.
19:22
I'm not.
19:23
Am I now trying to win the approval of manner of God?
19:26
So yeah, just this man, just this man, like you don't have to worry about.
19:29
It's not man in general, it's just me.
19:30
Okay.
19:31
All right, let's move on to the next one.
19:32
This actually is a question from Eric from the forging table.
19:34
So one of our OGs, how has your prayer life evolved over the years?
19:38
What was helpful for you in learning and expressing this often hard discipline?
19:42
My hunting obsession and my prayer life are intricately tied together.
19:51
And so context mattered to me a lot.
19:56
I had to willfully put myself in places where honestly, there's not much more to do than to pray.
20:02
I'm a doer.
20:05
I'm a strategist.
20:07
I'm a very gold oriented person.
20:09
Those things feel they're not different than prayer, but it sure does feel different.
20:14
And so there's some, there's certain context that I put myself in.
20:18
And it's kind of like a little brain hack.
20:20
Like when you're getting ready to train, there's like three or four steps before you
20:24
walk into your garage and start doing deadlifts.
20:26
And it's like your body is triggered in the right way to be like,
20:30
Oh, this is what we're about to do.
20:32
Same thing with my prayer life.
20:33
So like this morning, I, you know, I know it sounds sissy, but I don't care.
20:39
I got a bunch of bird feeders in my backyard.
20:41
Cause I just like to sit out of there and watch the birds happen.
20:43
But I do, but so I went out there this morning before I got in the sauna and just read a little
20:51
in Galatians, set my Bible down, prayed a little, watched the birds.
20:55
And where this comes from for me, when we first planted the church in 2012,
21:01
dude, it blew up just overnight.
21:03
And I thought, holy goodness.
21:04
And I was reading these, I was reading these biographies on like Luther and Calvin and Wesley
21:10
brothers, and their prayer life was through the roof.
21:14
I mean, Martin Luther would pray every day for three hours.
21:16
And I thought, man, the responsibility that God has given me is not being matched by an
21:21
increase in prayer life for me.
21:23
And I was very, very convicted.
21:25
And so that's where the Mondays in the woods, you know, prayer, right sermons all day came from.
21:30
So for me, I just felt like with the responsibility of the Lord had given me,
21:34
it was, it was required of me to pray more.
21:37
And I don't think I'm a very good prayer, like by nature.
21:41
So one of the things I'll do too, is just pray scripture.
21:43
Like as I'm trying to like ramp my mind and heart up for prayer, especially when I'm not in a
21:50
time of desperation, then I'll go Lord's prayer.
21:54
I'll pick, I don't know Psalm 91, Psalm 34.
21:57
There's some psalms that are prayers that started in heaven that are in our Bible,
22:02
that I just want to lift back up to heaven and just use them as my own words.
22:07
And that for me can be like training wheels to get the train going in my own prayer life.
22:14
Another hack is when my mind goes somewhere else, I just have a list on my phone or even
22:21
sometimes next to me pen and paper.
22:23
And when my mind starts thinking about all these other things, I'll just write them down.
22:26
And I feel like, okay, I'll get to this when I'm done.
22:28
And what's great is the enemy's trying to distract me.
22:32
And I've got a really good to do list at the end of it.
22:34
And I always chuckle.
22:36
I'm like, ha ha, what you intended for evil got intended for good.
22:39
Now, not only was I not distracted, but now also I know that some of the things I need to pay
22:43
attention to today.
22:45
Hey guys, real quick, as you've likely heard me talk about on the show before,
22:48
it took me forever before I started taking supplements of any kind.
22:51
I was always nervous about taking like whey protein and creatine or really anything beyond that,
22:55
because I was just afraid of what was in the product and if it was going to like give me
22:59
cancer someday or something like that.
23:01
And I was always scared of these companies, these supplement companies,
23:04
just cutting corners and using low quality products and eventually putting things in
23:08
their products that could cause problems for me and my body.
23:11
So I've always wanted to partner up with an American company that uses high quality
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So Jocko Fuel is Jocko Willing's American based supplement company.
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The Jocko go energy drinks.
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24:15
I think it's also helpful.
24:16
I would add is like take those little moments.
24:19
Like some guys don't turn on their podcasts or their music until they get out of the neighborhood.
24:24
That's just their normal cadence.
24:26
So they get out of the garage and they kind of drive through the neighborhood and silence for a little bit.
24:29
We'll throw up some tweet prayers real quick.
24:31
Like just chat like he's sitting there in the truck with you because he is.
24:35
So there's those little moments as well.
24:37
Well, that's a good, yeah. The first time I ever heard it,
24:40
explain that way. I think Chandler was preaching this is a really good idea.
24:43
He's like, there's, you know, my wife and I have two types of communication.
24:46
One is like a date night, which is face to face and long and deep conversation.
24:51
You should have that kind of prayer in your life, but you can't do it all the time.
24:56
And then sometimes G and I just quick little text. Well, there's nothing wrong with that kind of
25:01
prayer too. So don't, don't, don't fit yourself into some structure of somebody else's prayer life.
25:08
And I'll tell you this, man, I bet I've got 50 journals with two pages filled out in them.
25:13
Because I just, you know, all these guys were journalers and I thought you had to be a journaler
25:19
to be a Jesus follower. It just has never worked for me ever, ever, ever.
25:24
So part of it is try to find how God wired you and lean into that in regards to prayer.
25:29
Joby, I think that might be your next book after run over by the grace train. It can be
25:33
my first two pages and it'll just be like the first two pages of every journal thing. Maybe
25:37
that could be your devotional. What do you think? That's a great idea. Yeah. 50 days of almost
25:43
full thoughts like that could be basically what you're doing. All right. Next question is for me
25:47
because other people have been asked this, but I have never heard a pastor answer this question.
25:51
So I'm going to give it to you. Okay. And I mean this, this, this is no tongue and cheek. I literally
25:56
mean this question. Okay. If you were transported back in time to when Hitler was a newborn baby,
26:02
assuming he would go on to do exactly what he did during his life, would you have a moral
26:08
obligation to kill him? And would you?
26:10
Um,
26:13
I don't know, man. Uh, I would try to share the gospel with him when he was like 13.
26:21
No, you just, no, you transport it back to when he's a baby. He's a newborn. He doesn't understand
26:26
anything other than mama's milk at that point. No, I would not because I am pro life. And so,
26:32
uh, I don't think I could kill potential sin.
26:37
I think I would have to wait until he was, he had, he had earned the right to be put down.
26:46
We'll see you, you have changed my question because in this scenario, you know, he's going to go
26:52
on to do what he was going to do, unencumbered. And so that's the conundrum is as someone that is
26:59
pro life, well, there's six million Jews that wish they, that they were still living at that time.
27:04
And then there's tens of millions of others that were pulled into a world war that I'm pretty sure
27:08
would have much rather been farming or building a business or taking care of their families.
27:12
And yet they were dying in trenches in Germany. So that's kind of my thing. If you knew he was
27:17
going, I know we're, we're suspending reality here, like this is a, a other worldly scenario. But if
27:22
it's not, Hey, I can change this. The only option you have is to let him live or to kill him.
27:28
Since we're in the hypotheticals, and I don't know, because I would have to do the John 10 10
27:35
thing that I told the first question asked her to do. And really deeply pray, God, is this your
27:41
will for me to like, is this like an old Testament thing where you want me to wipe out evil?
27:45
Or is this like a new Testament thing where you want me to forgive my enemy and you're in control
27:49
of all things? So I don't know the answer. One of the things I would say, if there are any pastors
27:55
listening, I know you're my buddy, so you're never trying to get me on the gotcha things. But
28:00
you don't have to answer every question. The, the Pharisees would come to Jesus and ask him
28:07
trick questions. And then he would be like, well, let me ask you a question. John the Baptist,
28:11
was he from God or not? And they were like, we're not answering. He goes, then I'm not answering,
28:15
right? So I don't know. I mean, that's, you know, they're complicated, complex moral
28:22
hypotheticals out there that whatever answer is both right and wrong in so many ways.
28:29
Well, Joe, you don't have to answer their questions, but you do have to answer mine. That's kind of
28:36
the point of the show. It's not ask, ask a pastor and accept, expect nothing in return. It's ask a
28:41
pastor and get an answer. I think, honestly, goodness, I don't know, in the moment, I would,
28:47
I would have the same decision making that you did about cuss words in your show.
28:51
Once I got there, I would say, Lord, what you want me to do.
28:54
All right, I'll let you off the hook because,
28:58
all right, I'm going to let you off the hook temporarily to get to a question from Dylan.
29:02
And I'm going to say this from the beginning. I think I may have already asked you this question,
29:06
but it's a good question. So if I'm asking it again, you get to answer it again. And if not,
29:09
you get to hear it for the first time. My name is Dylan, 25 year old married dude from Nashville.
29:15
I was recently ordained as a deacon in my church. I used to view deacons as just old men in the
29:20
church who prayed over dying people. But I've learned that's not really the case. What advice,
29:25
wisdom or lessons would you give to a brand new young deacon? You know what, this sounds
29:30
familiar because I think I answered it on an AMA, but I don't think I asked you it. But so what would
29:34
you, what advice would you give to this 25 year old deacon? So in the Bible, deacon is not power
29:40
broker. It literally means dirty foot washer. So the best thing you can do as a deacon is go to
29:47
the leadership of your church and say, how can I serve to free you up to do what y'all are called
29:53
to do? So really, the first time you see kind of the idea of deacon is like Acts chapter six,
29:59
the Grecian widows are not getting their daily handout of food. And so the apostles are like,
30:07
well, we're not going to stop preaching and praying in order for this service to happen.
30:12
So they raise up six men, they lay their hands on and they pray for them so that they can do,
30:17
they can serve the body so that the preachers can pray and preach sermons. And then what's great
30:23
is at the end of it, it says, and many were added to that number. It doesn't say, and all the widows
30:28
got their food. So the best thing you can do is just ask how you can best serve
30:34
and do that for the sake of the advancement of whatever your church is doing.
30:39
What's funny is I think I told him because I answered his email personally and then I talked
30:46
about it on AMA, I said, yeah, you need to find you some old men in the church who pray over dying
30:51
people and get them to mentor you. It's like those guys at the very least have seen more things than
30:56
you have seen. They may not be smarter than you. They may have not done better than you on your ACT,
31:00
like whatever the situation is, but like, hey, these dudes have seen a thing or two. And so
31:05
get some of those sage guys that are in your life that can really, really pour into you in that way.
31:11
All right, next one is from Winkler, the Winkler from the forging table. He's the largest of the
31:16
forging tableers. He's Shrek size. Here's his question. If our actions are divinely predetermined,
31:23
why has God given us commandments? Who said our actions are divinely predetermined?
31:29
I don't know. Winkler did. It's just a question. Don't don't make fun of me. I just asked the
31:33
question as it was written here. So I don't think our actions are divinely predetermined.
31:40
I do think we have agency and God made people not puppets. And the reason we have commandments
31:46
is because we are image bearers of God. And his commandments are not rules and regulations.
31:53
As much as they are, the Creator knows how best to live this life. And they are a reflection
32:00
of who he is. And when we walk in line with who he is, then we have a much better chance of flourishing
32:08
and those around us flourishing. And the reason that we have commandments is because we are
32:13
broken people and we have a war going on in us and our flesh wars against the Spirit.
32:19
And the commandments are both a map and a mirror. It's a map to show us how to rightly live before
32:25
a holy God. But it's a mirror to diagnose the problem that we can't pull it off on our own.
32:32
So we need a Savior. We need someone to do for us what we can't do for ourselves.
32:36
So the law is the diagnosis that we're a sinner. And if there wasn't a law, we wouldn't know
32:45
when we broke the law or sin. So take, for example, you pull out on the highway and it says speed
32:51
limit is 70. Well, if you just said drive safely and you just had to perceive under yourself what
32:57
safely means, well, some of us will go 125 and feel real good about it. And some people will go 35
33:02
be putting on their makeup and feel great about it. But we know what the law is. It's 70 and to go
33:09
over 70 means I'm breaking the law. So the law of the old covenant was so that we would know
33:15
that we're just not bad people trying to be better. But we are dead in our sins because we are law
33:20
breakers. So therefore the covenant Paul says was like a babysitter until the Savior showed up.
33:28
What I think, again, I've talked about this many times, a origin meaning morality destiny. Like all
33:33
world these have to answer those questions. The third one is morality. How do we know the
33:36
difference between good and evil? Like what authority do we appeal to? Do we appeal to what
33:40
society has generally agreed upon? Our own individual feeling some sort of a higher
33:44
you know, book is it the Bhagavad Gita or is it the Quran or is it the Bible? Like, you know,
33:50
how are we getting this delineation between what is good and what is not? So I think that plays
33:54
into this as well. All right, Joby, we've only got time for one more question. So let's just
33:59
launch into it here. If you were transported back in time to when Hitler was a newborn baby,
34:03
assuming that everything would go exactly the same way it went during his life, would you have
34:07
a moral obligation to kill him? And would you do it? I don't know. I still don't know.
34:12
Moral obligation to kill someone. Every word of that is very, okay, let me back up.
34:20
All right. So a part of it, maybe this is part of it if so me, I don't think I would,
34:26
but I think maybe if you were like some sort of covert operative and they figured out time travel
34:31
and your, you know, commander in chief sent you, that's a very different thing than just like a
34:36
regular citizen. Like when you get into moral obligation and Romans 13 and Revelation 13,
34:44
I mean, that's a complex question. What would you do?
34:48
Well, so what I would say is, so let's let's change this scenario just a little bit since
34:51
you're changing my question. I guess I can change my question. So if somebody were hurting
34:56
Gretchen and you weren't around, no, no, no, you're not there. You're not there.
35:02
You're, you're off in wherever'sville shooting some animal with that has a face and its own life
35:07
and needed to live. So but I'm there and somebody is violating Gretchen. I have a moral obligation
35:14
to stop him. Okay. Correct. That is a moral obligation because I know in this moment,
35:20
like I can't tell the future, but I know that if I don't step in, it's going to get worse for this
35:26
particular image bearer of God. Now let's take Gretchen out of it. Let's just say it's Jane Doe,
35:30
a woman I don't know. I feel the same amount of compulsion, but I'm probably not going to be as
35:34
angry afterwards as I would be with, you know, a woman that I know and love.
35:38
Sure. But in this situation, if you know, because there's the scenario, I think you may have seen
35:43
back in World War one, which Adolf Hitler fought in, there was a soldier that led him live. There
35:47
was a soldier that had him dead to rights and didn't shoot him, right? Because he was by himself,
35:53
he was a young guy. And for whatever reason, the soldier on the opposite side did not choose to
35:57
kill this German soldier. That's a German soldier just so happened to be Adolf Hitler.
36:01
So how different is history if that guy just pointed his rifle at Adolf Hitler and pulled
36:07
the trigger? Like everything about the 20th century is completely different. And so for me,
36:13
knowing what I know about what he would go and do, it is open and shut. I'm killing this human being.
36:19
Like there, there are no two ways about it. I understand that there's the complexity. But again,
36:24
in this other worldly scenario, which I did not make up, but I am just parroting back to you,
36:29
you know that this baby is going to grow up to be Adolf Hitler and that tens of millions of people
36:35
will be slaughtered because of him. Yeah, I mean, this is like minority report stuff. And we got
36:42
precogs kicking off people who would potentially, if things go the way you think they're going to go,
36:48
deserve the death penalty. I would, I would ask to be to get sent after he had created,
36:56
after he committed some heinous crime that deserved the death penalty very, very early.
37:02
Well, Joby, I have this pension for making people feel uncomfortable. And I do get a little bit of
37:06
a thrill from it. And I get the sense that I have made you uncomfortable several times in this
37:09
conversation. So I feel like I've checked my box for this day. And I'm so excited that I can bring
37:14
a little bit of your discomfort. Or maybe it's because I'm perceiving you blushing because you've
37:18
been read this entire time. Maybe it's it's some of those different things. But that's all for now.
37:23
I'll let you off for now. Let's y'all hook for now. Is there anything else you want to say before we
37:27
let you out of here? Let's see a man. Thanks. All right. Until next time, Joby, we'll see you.
37:32
Thank you for listening to this podcast. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe,
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37:45
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And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us use their music for our content.
37:58
The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self-titled debut album on
38:02
Face Down Records. The links are in the description. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing
38:08
back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience, keep seeking the lion of Judah.
38:28
[Music]