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1:20
This is Undaunted Life a Man's Podcast.
1:24
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
1:26
Let's get into it.
1:28
I may have started something that I can't go back and undo.
1:31
You want to know what it is?
1:32
Please tell me.
1:33
All right, so I'm just minding my own business and I decided to ask you a question about
1:37
baby Hitler's super innocent question, very easy to answer.
1:40
And I swear, once every two or three days now, I'm getting an email from some Jack Wagon,
1:45
some Slappy.
1:46
That's like, hey, let me answer a question that you didn't ask.
1:50
And here's my 74 points as to why I'm right.
1:53
Why can't people just understand?
1:55
I get to ask the questions, I'm on this side of the camera.
1:59
What's wrong with these people?
2:00
I don't know.
2:01
Something's wrong with me too, because I can see that question like, you're living rent
2:05
free in my brain, because that question, I think about it too much, I do, man.
2:10
Jobe, I have been looking for a way to live rent free in your brain and I've tried making
2:16
fun of you.
2:17
I've tried like, you know, challenging you to Jiu Jitsu matches, all the things I've tried
2:21
to hit that one feeling you have left and none of it's worked until that question.
2:26
I got to tell you, that might be the accomplishment of the year.
2:28
I might need a trophy.
2:29
Can y'all send me something?
2:30
Yeah, we can.
2:31
I'll come out with like best of 11 22 and you'll get that.
2:34
Bad.
2:35
All right.
2:36
Well, we need to get into the actual questions for the day.
2:37
I don't think any of the other ones today.
2:38
Well, there might be one or two that might live rent free in your brain, but this is
2:41
kind of a pre question for the first question because you previously mentioned that Ryan
2:48
Horn is your favorite forging table.
2:50
Since then, it has been revealed that he has an unhealthy obsession with Cologne, like
2:57
wait a second.
2:58
Very, very unhealthy obsession with Cologne.
3:00
I think Cologne is unhealthy.
3:02
So go ahead.
3:03
Okay.
3:04
So with all of that in mind, now that you know more about this man, I guess you could
3:08
call him than you did before, is he still your favorite forging table?
3:12
Do you want to take that back?
3:14
Do you want to, you know, ascend a different person to the throne?
3:18
He still is my favorite forging table.
3:21
Just because of his sound theology.
3:24
And I mean, how much courage does it take to, to mention such what should be ought to
3:30
be a deep dark hidden secret in your life?
3:33
But apparently his brother believes the gospel so much that he would admit at a forging table
3:38
that he does not just have like a little bit of Cologne, but he's like really into it.
3:44
Joey.
3:45
No, wait, wait.
3:46
He didn't offer up that information.
3:47
I found it.
3:48
And I blasted him on the air and he just went with it.
3:51
So it's very different.
3:52
It wasn't like, Hey guys, I got a confession.
3:55
I have a different scent for a day of the week.
3:58
Like come on.
3:59
That's yeah, I don't know.
4:01
Well, thank God you're his friend and I earn sharpens iron so you can help him out.
4:05
I'm his friend for now.
4:07
It's a daily fight to figure out if I'm going to continue making that happen.
4:10
But in all kidding aside, we do have a great first question.
4:13
It is from Ryan horn who is still apparently the forging table or that Jobe loved.
4:18
It's this.
4:19
Does it make any sense to deny predestination, but then assure a non believer that God has
4:26
a plan for their lives?
4:30
You know, the word predestination, the way I would like to ask it is this.
4:38
Do you believe that God has a plan for your life?
4:41
I don't know the person that doesn't say, of course he does.
4:44
Okay.
4:45
Do you think he's making up as he goes or do you think he's surprised by it?
4:49
Or do you think God is outside of time so God knows what that plan or that destiny is?
4:55
People are like, yeah, I think that.
4:57
Well then by definition, you believe in pre that God has predestined you for whatever he
5:05
has for you.
5:07
So that's what I would say.
5:09
You know, with that as well on the predestination side, well, you made a comment to a friend
5:14
of mine recently, they were, they went to your church and do you remember the comment
5:18
you made?
5:19
I don't want to say her name because I didn't get permission, but if something along is
5:21
like, can you grow taller?
5:22
Like what was the context I got a little jumbled up?
5:25
Yeah, she said something to the effect of, well, based on my freewill or because I have
5:30
freewill and I was like, do you completely free?
5:32
She said completely free.
5:33
I was like, cool.
5:34
Be taller.
5:35
Will yourself to be taller.
5:37
Oh, wait a minute.
5:38
You can't.
5:39
Preordained to be how tall that you are.
5:42
She didn't love it, but it's just true.
5:45
Okay.
5:46
You know, who else doesn't love it?
5:48
People that can't grow beards because guys that I have this patchy beard thing going on,
5:51
I'll tell them, Hey, man, all you got to do is sit in a room and just concentrate real
5:53
hard.
5:55
And then, you know, you'll be able to sprout it and write, you know, I, I give them that
5:59
and every now and then they actually go and try that or they'll get, they got all kinds
6:02
of things.
6:03
Joby, they got oils you can put on your face.
6:04
They got things that you can like scratch your face with to try to get beard growth.
6:07
It's kind of the same thing.
6:08
So if we had free will, yeah, it'd be cool to be taller, but I think a lot of people would
6:11
rather have a beard.
6:12
Do you know why I have a beard?
6:14
I have no idea because I'm not a woman and I'm not a child.
6:18
Hey, and men have beards.
6:21
So is that a, so with that in mind, Ryan Horne doesn't have a beard.
6:26
And so are you still, is he still your number one forging table?
6:29
That's probably the last time I'll ask this episode because he doesn't have any hair at
6:33
all.
6:34
Yeah.
6:35
Yeah, the hair situation and the cologne situation, he's a constant reminder of the brokenness
6:40
of humanity that we live in and what Jesus came to do.
6:44
Imagine his beard in heaven.
6:45
He's going to smell great on his own and he's going to have probably the best beard in heaven.
6:50
Okay, that may be one of the best quotes we've ever gotten on the show.
6:53
But yeah, I just, the mental image, I got to put that into an AI pick generator later
6:58
on.
6:59
Ryan Horne with a beard, it's going to be, it's going to be like wrapping around his body.
7:02
He'll probably just like sleep on his own beard pillow.
7:04
So that'll work out well.
7:05
All right.
7:06
So next question.
7:07
This one's from me.
7:08
Is cannibalism a sin?
7:11
Cannibalism.
7:12
Yeah.
7:13
Yes.
7:14
It is a sin.
7:17
So I'm not asking because I'm curious.
7:19
I'm asking because I had the thought the other day is like, yeah, we all think cannibalism
7:23
is like wrong.
7:24
And you think about these, you know, ancient tribes or tribes, even today that still perform
7:28
this act.
7:30
But why biblically, I guess, is cannibalism wrong?
7:34
By the way, I'm not pro cannibalism to anybody clipping this out later.
7:37
It's just a question because, because our bodies in and of themselves are sacred as
7:43
image bearers of God.
7:45
And so to treat something that is sacred as common is sacrilegious.
7:51
And I think sacrilege would be, would fall into the sinful category.
7:56
Okay.
7:57
And the purpose of it is that you are commodifying an image bearer of God or you are commodifying
8:03
someone that Jesus died on the cross for to use for your own benefit.
8:10
And so there's not a big, there's not a big distance between like prostitution and cannibalism.
8:17
It's just to use somebody else's flesh for your own benefit or your own desire.
8:22
So sin.
8:24
Okay.
8:25
Um, I'm going to ask this.
8:27
And if you don't want to answer it, and if you don't want to go there, I've already told
8:30
you previously, you get full veto power for any subject matter and we can just edit this,
8:35
this whole section out, but you use a word that pinged my ears there and it was commodify.
8:41
And when I did my episode on in vitro fertilization, one of my concerns was the commodification
8:47
of the human body, where you are commodifying sperm, eggs, and the wombs of women in order
8:56
to reach a desired end goal.
8:58
For some people, it's the overwhelming desire to have progeny to have a child.
9:03
And they're using whatever scientific means to do that really without the regard for the
9:09
human beings that will be killed in the process.
9:11
And then you have people that are doing it because they want an accessory.
9:14
They're a gay couple and they want the accessory of a child and they don't want to adopt one.
9:17
And so they want to, uh, donate sperm, buy an egg, rent a womb, and then get, get a baby,
9:24
you know, nine months later, that's handed to them in a, you know, a hospital bed and
9:28
hospital room.
9:29
So do you see it the same way as the commodification of human beings and the elements that make
9:34
up what a human is?
9:36
I think in the most extreme cases that you were talking about, absolutely.
9:40
Like if you're trying to order a child, like you would a cat out of a catalog, right, then
9:45
I do think you're playing God in a way that is very, very unhealthy, which certainly I
9:50
do see, especially coming out of your, um, you know, a lot of people here, 11, 22, listen
9:55
to undaunted life.
9:56
And a lot of them didn't love that one about IVF and I get it totally, um, I do think
10:03
there are a bunch of people that are trying to the best of their ability to do a version
10:09
of IVF in the most God honoring way possible, meaning they're only fertilizing an egg or
10:17
two and if both fertilize, they're obviously keeping them.
10:21
So there was a bunch of the, I think legitimate cautions that you had that they are completely
10:27
taking into account.
10:29
Does that make sense?
10:30
But what you just described, a hundred percent, like if you were to, if you're going in saying,
10:36
all right, this is the color hair.
10:37
This is the color eyes.
10:38
This is how tall this is the athletic ability.
10:41
I mean, in that what Hitler was trying to do, like create this perfect pure race.
10:47
So yeah, that there's a real problem with that in the, in the commodification of human
10:52
beings.
10:53
So again, in the extreme, I completely agree.
10:56
And I also completely agree with you warning people to think about some things they probably
11:02
never thought about and there could be a slippery slope in that direction.
11:08
So you better fight like crazy to make sure if you or a family member were to do the IVF
11:15
thing, you would have to war against a whole bunch of potential problems.
11:21
But it is very, very complicated.
11:22
And the further away you are from something, the simpler the solution seems, and I don't
11:26
know a whole lot about it.
11:27
So I don't think I'm an expert to talk about it.
11:30
But for sure, in the extreme, anytime we commodify another human being, I mean, this is where
11:34
that this is why lust is such a big sin, and this is, this is why Jesus says, if you've
11:39
ever lusted after a woman in your heart, then you already committed adultery.
11:42
Because what you've done is you're not treating her as a human being that Jesus died for an
11:49
image bearer of God or even potentially a sister that Jesus, you know, has redeemed,
11:54
you're just treating her as a commodity to be used up for your own good.
12:02
And it'll, you know, it's murderous, it's, it's awful.
12:06
It's covenant-breaking.
12:07
Well, and to, to that end with the IVF stuff, a lot of people, they got mad about my IVF
12:13
episode.
12:14
We're getting mad at things I was not saying.
12:15
So they, because it took me 45 minutes to spell out my very carefully worded and crafted
12:22
argument about IVF and how I don't think Christian should utilize it.
12:26
And what people heard was this, you don't think people that struggle with getting pregnant
12:29
should have children.
12:30
And I was like, no, you, because people either didn't listen to the episode at all because
12:35
they read the title and the title made them mad, or they listened to the first five, ten
12:39
minutes and didn't give the full breadth and depth of my argument, any consideration.
12:44
But it's also a technological limitation of what we see with most IVF facilities right
12:49
now, which is that they're not making one egg to fertilize an implant.
12:53
They're making eight because it's inefficient and expensive to just do one or two.
12:58
So they do eight knowing that maybe one or two will survive.
13:02
And so that's, that's the extra consideration that I didn't think people didn't have.
13:06
And again, I need to remind people my personal family, my extended family, people that are
13:12
very close to me have had their families expanded by IVF technology.
13:16
And I happen to love the children that have been created via that process.
13:20
The issue is, is the exit are left over that they are going to donate.
13:25
At some point there will be breaking news and I don't know when of IVF facilities trashing
13:31
or donating the tissue of literally hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of image bearers
13:36
of Christ because there's no more space in the freezer.
13:39
And that's the thing that it's, it's a downstream consequence, but it's a consequence nonetheless.
13:44
So it's, I think this is a good discussion.
13:46
And you and I personally have talked about this, right, I applaud the episode.
13:51
Even though I do think you were talking, I have a lot of questions.
13:55
I think there could be a really robust dialogue about it.
13:58
I know that there's a guy in our city who is a believer in his, in his trying to do IVF
14:05
in such a way that addresses all of your concerns.
14:07
Okay.
14:08
Even with all that said.
14:09
So when people at our church heard the episode and were upset, well, mostly they were upset
14:14
because they were going through it and they felt attacked or whatever.
14:17
Okay.
14:18
Fine.
14:19
Because are you going to continue to be doing ministry with this guy?
14:22
Of course.
14:23
Even if I don't agree with everything you think, I don't care, Jesus is our Lord, we're brothers.
14:28
I have what's wrong with this country is people can't have conversations about things that
14:32
they disagree with.
14:33
Um, secondly, I think my job and your job are not the same job.
14:37
I am a pastor.
14:38
I start with where the sheep are and then try to take them to green pastures, take them
14:43
to cool waters, you have more of, of, of a prophetic voice because you're not nurturing
14:50
a group of people.
14:51
I think it's a good idea for you to drop truth bombs.
14:56
Sometimes it [inaudible] people off.
14:57
Sometimes it makes people cry.
14:59
Sometimes it makes people go, yeah, whatever.
15:01
But one of the things that that episode did for me was make me ask a bunch of questions
15:06
about a thing that just wasn't on my radar, you know, and I think those things are helpful.
15:12
I also think when Jesus was teaching a group of people over and over and over like the
15:18
disciples, he would like do a parable and then sometimes explain it.
15:22
And then sometimes he would walk in and say some outlandish stuff, knowing he was leaving
15:28
town and they would be like, did he really mean gouge out your eye and chop off your
15:31
hand?
15:32
Yeah.
15:33
And so there's, there's actually a place for you to do that.
15:38
And I don't think Sunday morning in the pulpit is the place.
15:41
I do think a podcast where people decide to listen or not listen, know what they're getting.
15:48
And I, I mean, part of the reason I listen to you all the time, even before we got to
15:52
be as good a buddies as we are, is because I didn't know the kind of things you were
15:56
going to raise, but you raised some stuff for me to think about that I didn't have to
16:01
think about or didn't choose to think about.
16:03
And I mean, oftentimes you say it in the most aggressive way possible.
16:09
Okay.
16:10
Yeah.
16:11
I mean, you just do it's fine.
16:13
It's totally fine.
16:15
I think that's, this is the right context for that.
16:18
You know, Ephesians four says load net, let no corrupt communication proceed out of your
16:22
mouth.
16:23
Only that which is edifying for the needs of the hearer in its appropriate place.
16:28
So this is the appropriate place for you to put on blast the pope, the whatever the LGBTQ
16:37
party is doing, this is the appropriate place.
16:41
My place in the pulpit is to help.
16:44
I got to like start where people are, where the sheep are, and then begin to feed protect.
16:49
Now I say pretty hard things, especially compared to like a normal pastor, but, but I'm trying
16:55
to move them to truth, move them to obedience.
16:58
It's just a different role.
16:59
So I appreciate you bringing that up.
17:02
Well, and I appreciate your commentary on it, because I've never been given to subtlety.
17:06
It's not really a strength of mine, but part of the thing is there, there's, there's something
17:11
to be said for controlled aggression.
17:14
And so I look at the two times that Jesus cleared the temple that was premeditated, righteous,
17:19
sustained aggression, but it was, it was under control.
17:22
He, like he wasn't, he didn't lose his mind in temporarily, you know, like you've had
17:26
those moments in your life, maybe where you got mad and punched a wall or kicked a dog
17:29
or something like that.
17:30
And then later you're like, I, I didn't even, it was like involuntary.
17:32
It's like my body just reacted.
17:34
That's not what I do on my show.
17:35
Like, how do you build out a 45 minute response to the IVF thing?
17:39
Like that wasn't like a knee jerk reaction to a question when I, when I criticize the
17:43
Pope or criticize Pride month, the LGBTQ thing, uh, people like Andy Stanley and other pastors
17:48
and things like that.
17:49
These are not things that I just in the moment, someone asks me, what do you think of this
17:52
person?
17:53
I go, well, let me tell you.
17:54
And then I just like fire off.
17:55
These are things that are very carefully considered before I release them.
17:59
And you're right.
18:00
There is a time and a place for things like that.
18:02
The pulpit on a Sunday morning is not a time for a political rally, some, you know, Trump
18:06
acolytes should, should really think that through as we march towards November.
18:10
But that's just something for all of us to consider.
18:12
We should probably get into the next one.
18:13
Cause I think we're two questions in and that actually started with a question about cannibalism
18:17
kids.
18:18
So there's your, uh, there's your lesson.
18:20
You could be talking about cannibal, cannibalism and somehow end up talking about something more
18:24
controversial than that.
18:26
But here we are on a thought to life and man's podcast, let's keep it going.
18:29
This is from an anonymous donor again, guys, if you want to have your question entered into
18:32
this list of questions, you have to be a monthly donor, undaunted dot life, fact slash donate,
18:38
but he wanted to keep his, uh, identity, uh, you know, cloaked a little bit because the
18:42
people that he's talking about actually listen to the show.
18:44
So here we go.
18:45
Okay.
18:46
I've been very close to my cousin for a long time.
18:48
He married someone that I have a hard time with.
18:51
I don't trust her.
18:52
She's very gossipy.
18:53
She talks trash about people all the time.
18:55
This has caused me to distance myself from my cousin and subsequently her.
18:59
I'm afraid that if I can find him about any of my personal issues that he will tell his
19:04
wife and then the world will know my struggles and issues shortly shortly thereafter.
19:09
I want to be close to my cousin, but his wife kind of sucks.
19:12
How do I handle that?
19:14
Um, I think it's a legitimate, uh, concern that he has, uh, a part of what it means to
19:23
be like a foxhole brother or a mat carrier or a three AM friend that you talk about is
19:30
that do I trust this person with the details of my life?
19:35
And I mean, when you get married, dude, his primary allegiance is not to you.
19:40
It's to his wife.
19:42
So if you don't trust her, then you don't really trust him.
19:46
And so you're probably right.
19:48
So you can be very, very close to your cousin, you should always honor them.
19:54
You should start praying for your, whatever you would call her cousin in law.
19:58
Not about her quit praying to God would change her.
20:01
Just start praying, blessing over her.
20:03
Watch what maybe happens in your heart towards her.
20:06
But, um, I would, I also wouldn't cast, uh, pearls before swine.
20:12
So if you know that the details of your life aren't trustworthy in that household, then
20:19
I wouldn't share them there.
20:21
So it's just, Hey man, he who walks with the wise, grows wise and a companion to full suffers
20:27
harm.
20:28
So it takes a lot of wisdom to choose the people that you are going to be most vulnerable with.
20:34
And just cause you like a person doesn't mean that that person's qualified to be a mat carrier
20:39
or a corner toater for you.
20:41
You have to be a, a trustworthy person.
20:44
The men that are in my life, there was a time when, when one of, when one of my guys, man,
20:51
I, you know, very similar situation, I didn't trust his wife.
20:54
I did trust him though, but he's not even in my life anymore.
20:59
I think because of their relationship, he's bounced is not even at our church.
21:03
So, but the men that I trust the most, the men that, that carry the corners in my life,
21:08
do they have the godliest, wise I've ever met?
21:11
I mean, I just, I trust these women as much as I do.
21:15
In fact, I would hope that when I, when I share with him, he shares with her because the
21:20
wives has such godly advice.
21:22
I think, I think I would benefit from it.
21:25
So if you don't think that's the case, then again, love your cousin, be friends with your
21:28
cousin.
21:29
He just might not be on your ultimate inner circle.
21:32
Hey guys, real quick.
21:34
If you're anything like me, you are constantly on the lookout for high quality products that
21:38
are actually made here in America, by American hands.
21:41
The problem is that a lot of American companies have outsourced their labor overseas.
21:45
So it's an American company, but it's supporting people that don't live here.
21:49
So I've always wanted to partner with an American company that prioritizes America, American
21:53
workers and making all of their materials here in this country.
21:57
That's why I want to remind you that we are partnered with Origin.
22:00
Origin is an apparel company based in Maine and they are focused on getting as much manufacturing
22:05
back to the United States as they can possibly do.
22:08
What do they make?
22:09
They make the best jujitsu geese on the planet.
22:12
And these are the only jujitsu geese that are made completely in America.
22:15
They also make jeans.
22:16
Yes, they're stretchy and awesome.
22:18
They also make amazing hunting gear.
22:20
And I know you guys love your kuyu and your sika, but those companies use overseas labor
22:24
and they don't do that to help you guys out.
22:26
They do that to increase their profit margins.
22:29
Origin also makes boots and work boots.
22:31
And yes, that does include still toe boots.
22:33
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23:01
Yeah, and that's, that's the thing that I got from this guy when I went back and forth
23:11
with him is that he was a bit heartbroken because his cousin was like a foxhole guy
23:14
to him and he felt like he, he lost him when his cousin gained her.
23:19
But the, I gave him very similar advice.
23:21
I was like, dude, he's, he's not married to you.
23:23
Like he's not going to have to give an account someday for how well he was your cousin.
23:27
Like he is going to have to give an account for how good of a husband he was.
23:30
And you know, we've kids subsequently come, you know, performing headship of the household.
23:34
And so, but I also told him to just be very open and honest with his cousin, like, Hey,
23:38
if push comes to shove and this is, this is your dude.
23:40
This is one of your foxhole guys, one of your three, anybody's one of your Matt toaters.
23:43
If that's one of those guys, you just have to be honest with them without attacking his
23:47
bride.
23:48
You can just say, Hey, man, sometime when you haven't been around, I've, I've heard your
23:52
wife say things that weren't so positive about other people.
23:55
If I share personal things with you, are you going to share that with her?
23:58
Because I'm just afraid that it might not stay with her.
24:01
And that's a fair way of approaching it without pointing your finger at her and calling her
24:04
a bad name and those types of things.
24:06
So there is a way to traverse that.
24:08
But we need to get to the next question here.
24:09
This is a should be an easy and fun one.
24:11
This is from Jake Winkler of the forging table, who is not your favorite.
24:13
You know, everybody knows that by now.
24:15
What is the best sporting event you've ever attended live?
24:20
And what is the one sporting event that you want to see live that you haven't seen?
24:26
So best sporting event you've been to and seen live.
24:28
What's one thing you haven't been to that you want to go to?
24:31
I have not been to a UFC fight yet.
24:34
So I definitely want to do that.
24:36
I had a couple of opportunities.
24:38
And then both times I had like dad duty with my daughter.
24:41
And so it was a really sweet thing because she knew I had like front row tickets from
24:45
Dana White to sit with some of my NFL buddies and it was going to be awesome.
24:49
And she had like a daddy daughter dance and she was like, are you going to miss it?
24:53
And I was like, there's no chance, baby.
24:55
Yeah.
24:56
Yes.
24:57
Great.
24:58
Yes.
24:59
I'm going to miss it.
25:00
But no, not a chance.
25:01
I sent my son and everybody thought he was a pro fighter.
25:03
It was great.
25:04
Man, I mean, the greatest sporting event ever is the Georgia Bulldogs.
25:08
And so just whenever they go and roll up on people at Sanford Stadium.
25:13
So what pick your college of choice?
25:15
But I mean, you want to see people just lose their mind and get caught up in the whole
25:20
thing.
25:21
And I know it's all idolatry and false worship.
25:23
I mean, we literally these seeing glory, glory to old Georgia and I get caught up in it.
25:29
So that's it.
25:30
And especially I get a home game here and get to watch him beat Florida for the last few
25:35
years.
25:36
That's great.
25:37
I'd love to go see him beat Alabama.
25:38
That'd be great.
25:39
But dude, it's hard to be a good college football game.
25:41
And I'd like to go see a UFC fight.
25:43
Well, so I've been the one UFC fight here in Oklahoma City.
25:46
I'd like to see one in Vegas.
25:47
I think that'd be really cool.
25:49
I mean, I've been to some World Series games and I think I've been to six World Series
25:52
games.
25:53
So that's so that's pretty cool.
25:54
Just the pageantry of October and October baseball and all that, even though every single
25:57
time I went, the team I preferred to win lost.
26:00
So if you want me to sway the World Series, like just send me to wherever you want me
26:06
to go for the for the benefit of your team.
26:09
But I would love it.
26:10
And this is just kind of where it's always been in my head.
26:12
I want to go to a night game at LSU, that like a football game.
26:16
Like that's what I want to do.
26:17
I want to eat gumbo and jumbo lie all afternoon.
26:20
I want to watch Cajun people act a fool.
26:22
And then I don't even care who they play, but I want it to be an SEC game.
26:25
So like LSU, Georgia, LSU, BAM, LSU, Florida, something like that.
26:28
I just think that that would be cool.
26:29
Like, I don't know if that's the coolest spot in the SEC.
26:32
I don't know what other schools you've gone to, but I've heard old misses awesome.
26:35
I've heard, you know, Florida and Gainesville's office was awesome.
26:38
I've heard Athens is awesome.
26:39
Like, well, I guess how many of the SEC schools have you attended games at?
26:43
And like, is there one that's like, Hey, this one's pretty dope.
26:47
Just from what I've heard, LSU night game, there is nothing better and nothing can compare.
26:52
So you are absolutely right.
26:54
LSU at night, especially big game.
26:58
Yeah, a lot of liquid courage.
27:00
They start very early.
27:01
It gets pretty ruckus.
27:02
I mean, literally it's registered on the Richter scale multiple times from them cheering.
27:07
It's moved the earth to the point that geologists are freaking out.
27:11
Well, Joby, I know you got some connections.
27:13
So the next time Georgia plays at LSU, at night, not, you know, not the two.
27:17
Thirty game.
27:18
I want a night game.
27:19
[inaudible].
27:20
So like, let's make that happen.
27:21
All right.
27:22
Next one here.
27:23
This is another one from a forging table.
27:24
This is from Eric Browning.
27:26
What has your experience been with family worship?
27:29
How has that played out in your home?
27:30
Are there any barriers to that for the Martins?
27:33
Yeah, it's pretty terrible in my house.
27:36
It is never gone the way that we had hoped it would go.
27:42
So I would be very, very cautious of trying to live up to some sort of external expectation
27:51
that you have of how it's supposed to go.
27:54
I mean, typically, you know, I'm trying to force it.
28:00
One of my kid, my daughter's into it, Gretchen's on her phone, JP's not even there.
28:04
I mean, it's just not, it's, it's cause more frustration than anything.
28:09
For us, what has been way better is just family dinner.
28:14
And we bring up topics of life and Bible there versus like family worship.
28:20
Probably the only time it went good was during COVID when we would be, you know, we would,
28:26
we would record all of our services on like a Tuesday and then broadcast them on the weekend.
28:31
And so we would do family worship there together in our living room.
28:35
That was probably the best version.
28:38
And for a long time, I would feel like such a failure.
28:42
And you know, I mean, I'm the pastor and this should be going good.
28:45
And it just was terrible.
28:46
And so I talked to a bunch of other of my buddies who have kids that love Jesus.
28:51
So the point, one of the things you got to pay attention to, don't ever get the means
28:56
in front of the ends.
28:57
My friend Larry Osborne, a pastor out in California, he talks about too many times Christians
29:04
get the fruit confused with the watering schedule.
29:07
So like they look at your lawn and billi, your lawn is awesome.
29:10
What's your watering schedule?
29:11
And then they go apply the same watering schedule to their lawn and it doesn't turn out right.
29:15
And they're all focused on the means, not the end.
29:18
So the end is that you would raise children in the admonition of the Lord.
29:22
You would train them up in the way they should go that you would disciple your kids.
29:26
And discipleship has to do worship is definitely a part of that.
29:29
And so you just got to do what works for your family and like in my family, I have two very,
29:34
very different children, very, very different.
29:37
And so to try to make them like conform to a pattern, especially as they get older.
29:43
Probably the best thing in regards to like catechizing my children of anything, especially
29:48
when they were small is prayer time at night.
29:55
I marked out a big chunk of time to pray over and with my children at night.
30:01
One as they get a little bit older, they try to trick you.
30:03
They think they're like getting to stay up late.
30:05
So they just will do whatever it takes to get the conversation going and they know what
30:10
they talk about crap.
30:11
I'm going to put them to bed, but if they talk about Jesus or the Bible or questions,
30:15
we can stay up as long as they want.
30:17
And what they don't realize is that they're being covertly discipled by their own trickiness.
30:23
And then I prayed specific scriptures over my children that they still have memorized
30:29
because they heard it 300 nights a week a year, you know, so just just figure it out.
30:35
And see, even that.
30:36
So what people can do is people can hear the prayer thing and then try out with their kids
30:39
and then not go good and they feel like a failure.
30:42
That's not the point.
30:43
The point is to make disciples.
30:44
So get really focused on the fruit, not the watering schedule.
30:50
I like that.
30:51
And it's very important for everyone to know that you have your context and you have your
30:54
family and your personalities and your schedules.
30:57
And so like I remember my wife talking about when she was a kid at softball tournaments.
31:01
I mean, because again, for whatever reason, a tournament can't be completed on Saturday,
31:05
you have to play your first game Friday, 17 games on Saturday, but you have to somehow
31:09
still play one or two on Sunday.
31:11
And so they, you know, most families would just skip church because at summertime, let's
31:15
just go to the baseball games, go to the lake, let's go to whatever.
31:18
But her family would always, no matter what city they were in, they would go to a small
31:22
local church and their chosen denomination.
31:25
And like she would be there in her braids and in her jersey.
31:29
And you know, her cleats were in the car and they would drive from church and then go back
31:32
and do their thing.
31:33
So that's practical for some people, for some people it's not, you know, you have the church
31:37
online capability and you'd be the first person to tell me that you can't just do church online
31:41
every week as opposed to driving down the street and going to an actual building with
31:44
real people in it.
31:45
But if you're on the road or, you know, if you're at that baseball tournament or something
31:49
like that, that's a way where you can still be attached to the body, even though it's
31:52
still just tangential.
31:53
So you got to follow whatever the flow is for you and your family.
31:56
Yeah, that's a really good example though.
31:58
Like kids sports is a good example.
32:00
There's a bunch of pastors right now bashing travel ball, right?
32:04
It's very ugly.
32:05
It bashes that.
32:06
It's either the kids that couldn't make it because they weren't good enough.
32:09
The parents of those kids or the parents of the freak athletes that don't need it because
32:13
they're so good.
32:14
Okay.
32:15
All right.
32:16
But it shouldn't be trashing travel ball.
32:19
It ought to be like your posture towards it.
32:23
Do you know how many kids I've baptized from my kids travel ball teams?
32:29
And we tried to the best of our ability not to bow down to the idol of travel.
32:34
We just tried to, it's the only lost people I knew, man.
32:36
So we tried to leverage it for the good news of the gospel.
32:42
And so, I mean, all of JP's college roommates were on his little league all-star baseball
32:48
team and I baptized every single one of them.
32:51
I mean, they all are Christians, their whole families, you know, so just be careful about
32:57
drawing a target around something and aiming at it, you know, figure out the why behind
33:01
that.
33:02
Well, yeah.
33:03
And it's not zero sum because I've shared, you know, a meme before where it was like
33:07
some parents are more concerned about making their kids an athlete as opposed to making
33:11
them a disciple.
33:12
It was essentially something like that.
33:13
And so what some people heard is Kyle's anti athletics for children.
33:17
It's like, no, dummy, what do you know, what are you talking about?
33:21
Like, but it's like, if you, if you put so much more time, effort and money in making
33:26
your kid like 1% better at baseball and you spend none of that time like dealing with
33:31
their soul or any heart level issues or things that could affect, I don't know, their eternity,
33:35
then that's problematic.
33:36
And I would suggest that you maybe've got, you know, your, you know, things out of whack
33:40
in terms of your household.
33:41
All right.
33:42
Next question here is from Roger, another donor.
33:44
Thank you, Roger, for being a donor.
33:46
What would be your argument to a pastor on the complimentary and view that women should
33:51
not hold the office of pastor and should not be preaching or teaching from the pulpit on
33:55
Sunday mornings also in what capacity is it appropriate for women to lead teach in the
34:01
church?
34:02
For background, my pastor's wife has taken more of a leadership role in the church over
34:06
the last couple of years.
34:07
She is now listed as an associate pastor and preaches on Sunday mornings about once every
34:12
two to three months.
34:15
Um, man, my understanding.
34:17
Step in the job.
34:18
Let's go.
34:19
We've already talked.
34:20
We've already talked about cannibalism and IVF.
34:22
We might as well step in this one, too.
34:24
Just go.
34:25
Um, my argument for complimentarianism would be the New Testament.
34:29
That's what it teaches that, but you know, I, I get it's a little more complex than that.
34:35
Uh, my understanding of the scriptures are that there, that men and women are created
34:40
completely equally under God, but with different roles in the home and in the, it was in the
34:48
family, in the church family and in your particular family.
34:52
So the role of pastor elder is for men according to the New Testament.
34:58
I mean, I, you know, we could go through Titus and Timothy and we could go through all the
35:02
places.
35:03
Um, just like a woman cannot be a dad, I don't care, even if she does some things that typically
35:11
dads do, a woman can't be a dad, a woman can't be a husband, a woman can't be the head of
35:17
the house because God has ordained that to be so.
35:21
My understanding and historically for 2000 years, the church is understanding until very,
35:26
very recently, in some places is the same role applies for men as the pastor, elder of the
35:34
church.
35:35
It pretty much comes down to this.
35:36
Paul says, I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over men.
35:42
Do you think that means or or and I think it means and at the church of 11, 22, we have
35:48
women in ministry at every level, except for the role of pastor elder, but we have women
35:57
lead because my view of the New Testament is that Jesus had women in ministry with him
36:03
that in the early church, people like Phoebe and Lydia had significant places of leadership.
36:09
But if you put that teaching and authority together, that's the role of the pastor, therefore
36:15
that has been reserved for men.
36:18
Why?
36:19
Because God can do whatever He wants to do.
36:21
I don't know.
36:22
Why do we have two feet?
36:23
Not 11.
36:24
It's just because that's how He designed us.
36:26
So the reason is because of His design, not because of, well, I know somebody that's better
36:32
at you, bro.
36:33
I bet there's 10,000 women that could do a better job at the job I have right now.
36:38
That's not the point.
36:39
God has anointed and appointed me to do it and designed men to play that role.
36:44
One, I mean, there's certainly more that we can talk about as far as that goes.
36:49
We could do an entire episode just on that.
36:50
But even just hearing Him describe, and I truncated it down so I could ask a question
36:55
to you, even just hearing Him describe it, you could tell it wasn't like, oh, this was
36:59
a very strong, biblically based male pastor that just thought it would be a good idea
37:04
to bring his wife along.
37:05
It seemed like he was a little bit more of a passive, like a little bit more of a push
37:10
over and his wife had one of those big, overbearing personalities.
37:14
And she started elbowing her way into the ministry that her husband was leading.
37:20
And he just was acquiescing to kind of keep her quiet and keep her satisfied.
37:23
And you do see that situation a lot where you have these men that are abdicating their
37:27
own responsibility and ignoring what we see in terms of lessons of scripture, because
37:30
they don't want to make their wives mad and it's to the detriment of the entire flock that
37:34
they're going to have to give an account for someday that how they've led.
37:37
You know what I mean?
37:38
Right.
37:39
Yeah.
37:40
And again, you and I have talked about this before.
37:42
What I think is irrelevant.
37:44
What I'm trying to do is just do what I think the Bible says to do.
37:50
Does it cause problems for me?
37:52
For sure.
37:53
Oh my gosh.
37:54
I mean, yeah.
37:55
People throw shade on me all the time because we're a complimentary in church.
37:58
Okay.
37:59
But one day I'm not going to have to stand before you and give an account.
38:01
I'm doing that right now.
38:02
One day I do have to stand before the Lord and if I get this thing wrong, I want to get
38:07
it wrong because I'm just trying to do what the words in the Bible say, not because I'm
38:13
trying to acquiesce to a cultural movement.
38:16
All right.
38:17
Very good.
38:18
There's two.
38:19
One more second.
38:20
Yeah.
38:21
Everybody.
38:22
I know that has begun to ordain women in ministry is the same thought process that the affirming
38:28
church has for the LGBTQ people, right?
38:31
So think about it.
38:32
It's like, well, Jesus never said anything specifically about it was in true, but that's
38:36
what they say.
38:38
I know what these words say, but they don't mean that.
38:41
I know somebody that's a better example of this, whether it's a pastor or a same sexually,
38:48
a better example than the Christians are and my own personal feelings and belief and
38:53
experience is like God told me something specifically is the exact same argumentation.
38:58
That makes me really, really nervous.
39:00
And I saw it all the way back in the 90s when I was in seminary, I was like, wait a minute.
39:05
Y'all this is the exact same hermeneutic that you were using with the text.
39:09
I honestly think what's happening.
39:12
I do think I think there are some people out there just doing the best that they know how
39:15
to do.
39:16
And that's just the tradition they grew up in and they didn't know any better.
39:19
A lot of what I see is this is what I want and I don't love what the Bible says.
39:24
So I'm going to shift what the Bible says to what I want in any area in my life where
39:30
that's happening.
39:31
I want some people to point that out and I want to shift my life to what the Bible says,
39:36
not the other way around.
39:37
Well, certainly and here's a pro tip.
39:40
If someone claims to have new knowledge, revelatory knowledge about the language used
39:44
in documents that were written somewhere between 2,000 and 5,000 years ago, you might
39:49
look a scance at that and just be like, yeah, I don't think, I don't, I think it sounds
39:53
like you're making that up to, to agree with your political priors.
39:56
And that's what I said.
39:57
But at my, my abortion talk at the church 11, 22, I said, this is a category of belief
40:02
systems because nobody is like pro Israel, pro gun, like pro closing the borders and
40:11
all that.
40:12
And then like, and then they're also like anti abortion, like those things are, well,
40:18
actually, I said that wrong, but like, if they're pro abortion, if they like those things,
40:22
they're also, you know, pro Hamas and pro BLM and pro all those different things.
40:26
Like you're, you're attacking a worldview when you attack one of the categories.
40:30
And this is just one of those categories.
40:31
Now, Joby, we are short on time.
40:33
I just got to say this.
40:34
So you've been here, you've been 11, 22, you've worked here, you know, you've done some
40:38
stuff here.
40:39
And our church is, is full of very competent, very smart, very gifted female leaders.
40:48
Amen.
40:49
And, and, and they serve at the highest level, just not pastor.
40:54
And what you've noticed is they are not concerned about any kind of title that they have to
41:00
have.
41:01
They are just concerned about the mission of God for his church.
41:04
That's right.
41:05
Man or woman, recall white or black, those are the kind of people I want to be working
41:09
with, not the kind of people that are looking for what kind of title they get to receive
41:13
or position they get to sit in, but, but the church that they get to serve.
41:17
And so, you know, when you read the Bible, you get really focused on Jesus and not the
41:21
position that you get, then things, they just go a lot better.
41:26
And so kudos to the females that I get to work.
41:29
Yeah.
41:30
Yeah.
41:31
I mean, I've interacted with a lot of the women that work at your church and they've
41:33
all been fantastic and incredibly easy and lovely to work with.
41:37
And here's the other thing.
41:38
I've been in a lot of corporate environments and people typically lead with their business
41:42
card or they lead with their title.
41:43
Hi, I'm the executive vice president.
41:45
Nice to meet you.
41:46
Hello, I'm the top salesman of the quarter, that type of thing.
41:48
I don't know what anyone was title is.
41:50
I know what they do, but I got an idea of like the area of influence they have, but I've
41:55
never been introduced somebody like, like I've had to ask like, Hey, who is this person?
41:59
Like can they do the things that I need to have them do so that I can, you know, do that
42:04
what I need to do.
42:05
And so that that's a good thing.
42:06
It speaks to a very positive culture.
42:07
So kudos to you for that.
42:08
So we got time.
42:09
Well, we don't have time, but I got a couple of more questions.
42:12
This one's been a burn in a hole in my pocket.
42:14
Well, I guess you could say it like that, but it just anyway, it's because I've had two
42:19
babies that have died in the womb.
42:20
And so I'm very concerned about this, but here we go.
42:23
If a baby dies in the womb, do they automatically go to heaven to be with God or does elections
42:28
still come into play?
42:30
And then with that, how tangibly and literally can an unborn baby experience hell and eternal
42:38
damnation?
42:39
And I don't mean like, how could that happen?
42:41
I don't mean it like that.
42:42
I mean, like, how does a baby that's never seen the light of day that doesn't understand
42:48
feelings or anything?
42:49
How could they experience hell in the tormented way as it's described?
42:54
John Piper explains this way better than I could explain it.
42:58
So go to a desiring God and ask the same question.
43:02
And he's got like a little 15 minute deal.
43:04
He walks through Romans chapter one and the character and nature of God and comes to the
43:10
conclusion that the unborn baby goes to heaven because of the grace of God in their life.
43:18
And that, and he is, he's like, if you could add more points to Calvinism, he would adopt
43:23
them.
43:24
You know what I mean?
43:25
So he would say in God's sovereignty, not only is he sovereign over salvation, but he
43:29
knows which baby's angle make it anyway and those go to heaven.
43:34
And so again, he roots it in Romans chapter one about God being a righteous and gracious
43:42
God.
43:44
So would it be in this, this might just be a little bit semantic or maybe not semantics.
43:49
Would it be because they weren't born into sin because they were not born at all?
43:53
Yeah, I mean, that is a part of it.
43:56
I don't think that means outside the womb born, but I do think that means like at their, at
44:03
they have no opportunity to even walk in the sin nature that they were create, that they
44:09
were, that they inherited from their parents.
44:14
And again, he, because he talks about the goodness of God, the kindness of God, the justice
44:20
of God that he would be in the camp of lose a baby goes to heaven.
44:25
I'm in that camp too.
44:27
One of this is a little like a Bible study hack.
44:30
Sometimes you get into complicated questions like that were very complicated answers.
44:34
How do you know the answer?
44:35
One of the things I find helpful is to find the people that I agree with on virtually
44:40
everything else and see what they think.
44:44
He's very helpful for me.
44:46
So Dr. Piper is one that I often go to and his website desiring God is incredible because
44:51
it asks all kinds of questions like this.
44:54
Shout out to all the pastors out there with Asperger's because apparently Joby is going
44:58
to agree with everything that you ever say.
44:59
All right, Joby, last question of the day, perhaps the most controversial.
45:02
We'll see how it works out is a hot dog, a sandwich.
45:06
Oh, man, uh, no, it's a hot dog.
45:12
I think it's a unique category like a unicorn and a horse that has characteristics like
45:18
a horse, but it's not a deer, but it also has an antler or a horn, but it's a unicorn.
45:23
So I think the hot dog is the unicorn of the sandwich cosmos, but it is not a sandwich.
45:35
I'm going to try to.
45:36
No, no, no, no, I'm going to have to try.
45:38
I'm going to sway you in this moment because I've thought this has lived a rent free in
45:41
my brain.
45:42
So you think about baby Hitler and I think about hot dogs because categories are important.
45:47
You wouldn't call, you wouldn't say Ruben's not a sandwich.
45:49
No, Ruben's just a type of sandwich, right?
45:51
It is.
45:52
Yeah.
45:53
This is so I know there is a definition of sandwich and somebody has broken this down for
45:56
me before where they were like, Hey, bread, there's got to be bread separation.
45:59
And it was like, you know, Lord sandwich, you know, 300 years ago, call to this or that.
46:04
This is my argument.
46:06
A hot dog is an open face sandwich because it's bread that's been cut, but not separate
46:11
it.
46:12
It's been open and the meat's been placed on top.
46:15
You've had an open face roast beef before.
46:17
You've had, you know, open face something or other with, you know, cheese melted or something
46:20
like that.
46:21
So I am firmly planted my flag in the hot dog is a sandwich.
46:26
It just so happens to be categorically an open face sandwich.
46:30
What's it would you call avocado toast the sandwich?
46:33
No, because it's not me.
46:35
But yeah, give me an ex sandwich, I'll have an open face.
46:42
I'll eat one right now.
46:44
So in as much as a hot dog is a sandwich, then avocado toast with an egg on it is a
46:50
sandwich.
46:51
Well, gosh, darn it, Toby, we're just not going to agree on this one.
46:53
So we should probably leave it there.
46:54
You got anything else for the audience before we let you get out of here?
46:56
No, sir.
46:57
No, sir.
46:58
You've been crushing it lately, man.
46:59
Keep it up.
47:00
All right.
47:01
We'll talk soon.
47:02
All right, peace.
47:03
Thank you for listening to this podcast.
47:04
To this, please subscribe, rate, and leave us a positive five star review.
47:08
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47:11
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47:16
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47:19
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47:24
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47:27
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47:28
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47:34
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47:35
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
47:37
Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience.
47:44
Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
48:04
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