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This is Undaunted Life Man's Podcast.
0:53
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
0:55
Let's get into it.
0:57
I'm Toby Martin.
0:58
If I'm not the first one to welcome you, welcome to 2024.
1:01
How the heck are you?
1:03
About the same as 23, but I'm doing good.
1:05
Future's bright.
1:06
Yeah, I figured that was a good thing.
1:07
The future is definitely bright.
1:08
I think we both got a lot of momentum carrying us into this year.
1:12
But as everybody knows, I love to start out my year by telling guys how they can stop
1:16
being so crappy.
1:17
Okay.
1:18
So one of our best podcasts every single year, one of the most downloaded is my ways to avoid
1:21
being a crappy man and whatever year that is.
1:24
So we got a lot of favorites.
1:25
Like don't let sports ruin your night, no porn, no jerking off.
1:29
Be nice to the weight staff, all kinds of good stuff.
1:31
But I want to know from you, because you didn't know this was coming, but I'm putting you
1:33
on the spot here.
1:34
I want you to give me three to five ways that men can avoid being a crappy man in 2024 and
1:43
they can't be the ones that are on my list already.
1:45
So if you do that, that's a violation.
1:47
I throw a flag 15 yard penalty and then we have to repeat the down and you have to give
1:51
me two extras.
1:52
So we'll just say three.
1:53
We'll keep it to three.
1:54
Three ways that you can avoid being a crappy man in 2024 and don't say go to church.
1:59
Okay.
2:00
Because everybody knows that one.
2:01
Number one, read your Bible every day.
2:03
Is that on your list?
2:06
It's not on there.
2:07
But well, thanks for making feel terrible.
2:08
Like the very first, the very first one you throw out and ideally on my list and the first
2:13
thing you do like after you pee or whatever, when you get up, the first thing you do should
2:17
be read your Bible.
2:18
You prioritize that.
2:19
Number one, number two, the miracle where they bring the paralytic God of Jesus and
2:26
Terry, a hole in the roof.
2:27
He's got four friends that carry the mat, make it a priority to have four corner toters
2:33
in your life.
2:34
And then number three, find a life giving hobby that your wife can give the thumbs up
2:40
to that steals your mind away from all the really important things in your world.
2:46
But it's got to be healthy and life giving.
2:48
Okay.
2:49
I feel like you were prepared for that because that just ran right off your tongue.
2:52
One, two, three, but hey, you know, define, define life giving though, because I think
2:56
everybody's going to have a little bit of a, a little bit of a different definition.
2:59
But when you say life giving, what do you mean?
3:00
Well, it's really more just like not bad or not life stealing because a lot of men, especially
3:06
the kind of men that would listen to this podcast are kind of adrenaline junkies, you
3:10
know, they're kind of looking for a zing.
3:12
And so it could be golf or it could be surfing or it could be reading or writing poetry.
3:17
It doesn't matter, it's just got to be something that is filling as opposed to drinking too
3:22
much or going places you shouldn't, shouldn't go or gambling too much or, you know, spending
3:27
money you don't have.
3:28
So just something that doesn't suck life out of you, but it, it helps fill you to be the
3:33
man that God's called you to be at home and with your kids.
3:37
So would you like to go ahead and share some of that poetry with us right now?
3:40
Do you just want to pull out your journal and just, you know, I know you got at least
3:43
a high coup for us.
3:45
No, I'm terrible at that stuff.
3:47
What I try to do in pasturing this church though, is not every example I give is boots
3:53
and motorcycles and bows and deer, you know, just like 97% of the examples.
3:59
Well, there's, there's the things that just come to my mind naturally and then art like
4:05
some guy, you know, like Shane Bernard, some guys that we respect highly.
4:09
I mean, that's, he's a man, he's a dude and, and that guy probably has a big extensive journal
4:14
that we all benefit from because, you know, his music comes from it.
4:18
And his hands, except for his fingertips from playing guitar, but his hands are a little
4:22
bit soft.
4:23
But you know what?
4:24
That dude's a gangster.
4:25
And if we're storming the gates of hell, I'd be okay with a spiritual warrior like that
4:28
on my side.
4:29
I can tell you that right now.
4:30
Well, let's go ahead and roll into the next one.
4:31
And you know, you know, Joby, I like to kind of keep things very low key.
4:34
I don't really like getting into confrontation.
4:36
So let's talk about the Pope.
4:37
Let's talk about Catholicism and let's talk about homosexuality.
4:41
So obviously at the end of last year, it was very famously reported that the, the Pope
4:46
and the Vatican have now approved the blessing of same-sex couples, Catholics swore up and
4:52
down that nothing had changed, but you don't really announce something.
4:55
If nothing has changed, you don't say, Hey, breaking news, everything's the exact same.
5:00
And so as we sit here, it took one day before a priest in America, blessed a same-sex couple
5:05
while they were holding hands.
5:07
And to date Joby, the Vatican and the Pope have said nothing about that.
5:11
They haven't had a word to say about that.
5:13
They haven't repudiated this person.
5:15
They haven't called him a rogue.
5:16
They certainly haven't defrocked him.
5:18
But I think what this does, Joby is I certainly want you to address that specific controversy.
5:23
But even though we could do a whole hour on this, I would like to pull out to the whole
5:27
picture of Catholicism because I do know there are a lot of Protestants that are in
5:32
the John MacArthur wing of the Reformed circle that believe every single Catholic is going
5:37
to hell.
5:38
And then there are people that are on the other side that think, Hey, it doesn't matter
5:40
how you worship.
5:42
It doesn't matter.
5:43
You know, if you're Pentecost, well, if you're Catholic, if you're whatever, Jesus is here
5:46
for all of us and he's going to take us all up to heaven when it's all said and done.
5:50
And then there's everybody else in the middle that's really, you know, kind of trying to
5:53
figure out what exactly is going on.
5:54
Even my dog right here, you hear that big sneeze, that may have been a demon that he was sneezing
5:58
out just now for those of you that are listening with the headphones turned on high.
6:01
So just go, go with that wherever you want to go with it because there's a lot of confusion
6:05
right now.
6:07
Regardless of your denominational background, if you trust in Jesus Christ as the propitiation
6:12
for your sin, you are saved.
6:14
There's going to be a lot of Catholics in hell, but there's going to be a lot of Southern
6:17
Baptist in hell too, because I think their lack of dancing and drinking is going to somehow
6:21
earn their salvation.
6:23
So in regards to our justification, there is no good work that we can add to it to justify
6:30
ourselves before the Lord.
6:32
Core Catholic doctrine does teach that.
6:36
So it is off.
6:38
Thank God for the Reformation.
6:40
In regards to the Popes, whatever you want to call it, eat it.
6:44
I don't know what it's officially called because what happens is he says a thing and
6:49
then the Catholic PR team comes along and says, well, that didn't count because it didn't
6:53
come from a council.
6:54
I don't know what that means.
6:56
Bottom line is this.
6:57
If you're a Protestant like me, the fundamental difference between a Protestant church and
7:02
a Catholic church is where their source of authority comes from.
7:06
And Catholic authority actually comes from three different places, the Bible, whatever
7:12
the pope currently thinks or says, and church history of tradition, which was written down
7:17
in councils.
7:18
Okay.
7:19
Well, a big part of what Martin Luther said, no way.
7:21
There is one source of authority and it is the Word of God.
7:25
The things that the pope is reported saying about blessing same-sex marriages or unions,
7:32
it is, it is out of line with the Word of God, period end on.
7:38
And take John 15 or John chapter eight, anytime you move away from the authoritative Word
7:45
of God, you are moving away from the good shepherd Jesus Christ.
7:50
It is disobedient and it is something.
7:54
You go far enough and it's beyond heresy and you get to the place of apostasy because
7:59
you're not, you're saying Jesus isn't Lord anymore, my opinion is Lord, that's apostasy.
8:07
So hey, and it's happened in a bunch of denominations, 7,600 Methodist churches just left the United
8:13
Methodist denomination because the United Methodist church moved away from the Word of
8:18
God in regards to what the Bible says about what marriage is and what marriage isn't.
8:24
And so the interesting thing is people, it's been happening a long time.
8:29
People think if the church doesn't get with the times and it's going to lose everybody.
8:34
Well, when Jesus made that promise, in Caesarea, Philippa, upon my rock, upon this rock, I will
8:39
build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
8:42
He was talking about the rock of the public declaration of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
8:46
And so what you see in actuality is the churches that are reaching people are growing.
8:51
These are the churches that believe in the authority of the Word of God and preach the
8:54
gospel on a shame.
8:56
Okay.
8:57
Now, I want to make sure that we have time for some of the fan questions because again,
8:59
guys, the only way that you can get your question answered on ask a pastor with the one and only
9:03
Job and Martin is if you are a monthly donor, but I do want to ask a kind of a side to that.
9:09
Homosexuality seems to be the pet sin, the, the asterisk sin, if you will, at the end of
9:15
the last year, LaCray posted this video, basically saying, Hey, these people were born this way.
9:19
Like, you know, what, what, what are we supposed to do about it?
9:21
And it's that one sin that everyone seems to be like, okay, you know what, I know what
9:24
the Bible says about that.
9:26
And I know what the clobber passages are as Andy Stanley would say it, but what do you
9:29
have to say to people that are a part of modern culture that they're lovers, right?
9:34
They're very emotive.
9:35
They're very feelings driven.
9:37
And guess what, Joby, they've got gay friends and gosh darn it.
9:40
They're more moral than some of their Christian friends in church.
9:43
And guess what, they're not nearly as racist as their grandpa that purportedly loves Jesus.
9:47
And so we just excuse it.
9:50
We go along to get along.
9:51
We attend their gay marriage wedding ceremony.
9:55
And we do all these different things to basically tut, tut the sin.
9:58
Like, what do you have to say to these people?
9:59
Because gosh, it's just damnable behavior, in my opinion.
10:04
I would ask them the question who their Lord is.
10:06
And if Jesus is their Lord, fundamentally, that means they got to do what He tells them
10:10
to do.
10:11
Now, we should love all people to withhold truth is not loving and clarity is kindness.
10:20
Now, just like I don't lead every conversation with who you're sleeping with, I don't think
10:26
that has to be the lead foot of every conversation that I have with a gay couple.
10:31
However, to try to shift what the Word of God says to match our current culture means
10:38
that culture rules and the Bible teaches us that the enemy is the prince of this air.
10:43
Well, that's who you're serving when you begin to mold to the culture.
10:47
Now, I do think that the church, historically, probably for the last 2000 years, but at least
10:53
American church in the last 100, has mistreated the homosexual community and not led with
11:01
love.
11:02
So the pendulum is swung all the way over here where it's nothing but grace with no truth.
11:07
And Jesus came full of grace and truth.
11:09
Listen, the message to every sinner you know is the same, repent.
11:15
And there is no kinder thing you could say to a person than repent because you turn from
11:20
the sin of this world.
11:21
You turn from death and darkness and you turn to the kingdom, the king and the kingdom
11:26
of light.
11:27
It's the kindest thing you could do.
11:28
Well, and I've said this before, the people that have the higher levels of sin in terms
11:33
of how we at least keep score, when those people turn to Christ, they understand the
11:37
grace of God more than the person that, you know, maybe minded their P's and Q's sat in
11:41
the front of class and was a straight A student, but still realized one day that they were
11:44
a depraved sinner.
11:46
So if a homosexual person is their sin is pointed out to them and said, you can't live
11:49
this way.
11:50
It's, it's, you know, anti nature.
11:52
It's anti God's law.
11:54
It's all those different things.
11:55
Those people are going to have likely a deeper understanding of what true propitiation for
11:58
their sins actually is, but we need to go ahead and shift gears.
12:02
We need to get into the first question from a donor.
12:04
So this is according to, or a question from Elijah, so Elijah, thank you for being one
12:08
of our donors.
12:09
And no, that's not my son.
12:10
He's, he couldn't have possibly worded a question like this.
12:12
But here we go.
12:13
I have a friend that I've been burdened for in a big way recently.
12:16
His heart is pretty hard towards religion in general, but I'm burdened for him and want
12:20
to be a better witness to him.
12:22
However, the main issue is that I constantly mess up in front of him in speech or actions.
12:27
I'm worried about doing more harm than good with my testimony since I've been outspoken
12:31
regarding my faith since we met around two years ago.
12:34
How should I approach witnessing to people like him who are very intellectual, skeptical
12:38
and heart of heart and do that better?
12:40
He actively avoids discussing any deep topics, let alone religion.
12:44
So I feel if I bring up something like faith abruptly, I'd be in danger of pushing him
12:47
further away.
12:49
Any advice would be appreciated.
12:51
Yeah, I appreciate the question.
12:54
One, don't give yourself, well, there's two things.
12:57
One, don't give yourself a pass on sin in your life.
13:03
You know, I mean, one of the best ways to put a mirror up to your face about your own
13:08
depravity and how much you need a savior is if you're real serious about leading your
13:12
lost friend to Christ, because now not only are you convicted of your sin, but you're
13:16
like, holy crap, I might be in your mind, you're thinking in the flesh, I might be screwing
13:20
it up with this guy.
13:22
However, one of the most authentic things your friend could see is what it looks like for
13:27
a sinner in need of a savior.
13:29
So live your life, but you've got to pursue walking with Jesus.
13:34
I mean, you really do.
13:36
You should let him know that you're praying for him constantly.
13:40
You really should.
13:42
And a part of what happens is even though he might reject your invitations to a conversation
13:47
or to a church, what's going to happen is when this guy's life hits the ditch and it's
13:52
coming one day, he's going to go run to that praying friend, not to the party and friend.
13:57
That's just going to happen.
13:59
And then the other thing, bro, is it doesn't necessarily have to be your words, like share
14:04
links to podcasts, share links to sermons, share links to even little Instagram reels
14:11
that point towards Jesus, just be the guy that's sharing those kinds of things.
14:16
And then the biggest thing is pray for him, not about him.
14:19
I prayed for my dad for 30 years before he came to Christ.
14:23
And I feel like I'm equipped to share the gospel in a convincing way.
14:27
And it's not until the power of the spirit of God draws this guy unto himself that the
14:32
guy's going to get saved, but don't ever give up.
14:36
And I would use as many angles.
14:37
The other thing too, is if you could team up on the guy, that often works great.
14:41
So some night, like when I was coaching, when my son was younger and I was coaching baseball,
14:46
what we would do is all three of the coaches were, we were all believers, but we would
14:50
pick off a dad or two and we would all three befriend the guy and get involved in his life
14:56
and start inviting him to church.
14:57
And so just don't give up, man.
14:59
Just don't give up.
15:00
I love that.
15:01
And the thing that I would add to that is be careful what side of the ledger your preferred
15:06
friend status is on.
15:08
And so what I mean by that is there are those guys that are in a bunch of dudes weddings,
15:13
right?
15:14
So they're groomsmen and best men in a bunch of weddings because they're fun to be around
15:17
and gosh, they've got the best jokes and man, they always got liquor and they were always
15:21
the guy where the party was basically following them.
15:24
But when somebody's chips are down, you don't go to the goofball.
15:27
That's fun to hang out with.
15:28
You go to the solid three AM friends.
15:31
And so don't be the preferred friend to be the first guy to get texts when there's a
15:35
party coming.
15:37
Be the preferred friend that it's like, Hey, it's three AM.
15:39
The chips are down and we need some guys with shovels to go bury a body.
15:43
It's a very, very different thing.
15:44
So be careful about your preferred friend status.
15:46
Okay, so this next question is not from one single donor because I've kind of gotten
15:51
a an accumulation, a coalescing of a bunch of different questions that are in this exact
15:56
same vein.
15:57
So I'll just flow on it, but I know a bunch of you guys have asked about it.
16:00
And it centers around two particular people, Mark Driscoll and Ravi Zacharias.
16:05
And so when Ravi Zacharias died, right, oh, it don't be laughing.
16:10
You already have an idea what you're going to say.
16:12
But when Ravi Zacharias died and his sexual depravity was found out, there were a lot
16:16
of people at that exact moment that said, okay, Mark and avoid anything ever put out
16:20
by Ravi Zacharias.
16:22
All podcasts, all YouTube videos, all speeches, all books, all everything.
16:26
It's gone.
16:27
Same thing with Mark Driscoll.
16:28
So whether or not you believe the narrative painted by that, you know, podcast that went
16:32
all over the entire planet, whether or not you believe that he is sanctified now or asked
16:37
for forgiveness.
16:38
I've been told by multiple people that I love and respect Joby that if I support Mark Driscoll,
16:42
I am supporting an unrepentant center and someone that is disqualified from being a
16:47
pastor because they apparently hold a higher level of knowledge than the rest of us about
16:52
somebody's status before the Lord.
16:54
But just in general, there are people that are in pick your favorite person that has been
16:58
disqualified from sinning, you know, the guy from, oh, I guess just the big guy up in Chicago
17:05
that had the big church.
17:06
It was like the first, you know, super big church up there and then Carl Linson pick your
17:10
favorite guy, but what are we to do with these people that lo and behold, end up becoming
17:15
a sinner?
17:16
Do we mark and avoid them without any nuanced perspective?
17:19
What are we supposed to do?
17:22
What if I proposed it this way?
17:24
What if I was like, man, there's this new worship song and galley.
17:26
I love singing it.
17:27
I mean, I love it.
17:28
It brings me closer to the Lord.
17:29
I think it's theologically accurate.
17:32
And then I don't know if you've heard, but this worship leader that wrote the song, man,
17:36
he actually had a baby out of wedlock and apparently he's been arrested for putting out
17:42
a hit on a dude.
17:44
What do you think about that guy?
17:45
Should we sing his song?
17:46
Turns out that guy's name is King David.
17:48
So we haven't thrown his stuff out.
17:51
So I think you got to eat the fish, spit out the bones.
17:56
I mean, the, you know, the, the information about Robbie Zacharias is just terrifying
18:01
and heartbreaking.
18:02
It really is.
18:04
That I know Mark a little bit.
18:08
We're not like best buddies or anything.
18:10
All of my experiences with him have been super positive.
18:15
But content wise, dude, find me a better Bible preacher.
18:18
I mean, seriously.
18:19
So, you know, I don't attend this church.
18:22
I would be very, very skeptical of making judgments about people from this far away,
18:28
just on what you've heard about what you heard.
18:32
Because I don't know if your listeners have figured this out.
18:35
Most of the new sources we have in America are not very reliable.
18:39
See all of the last three years about what science says.
18:44
Now we know science doesn't say that.
18:45
So I would just be really, really skeptical about the new sources, particularly take the
18:52
rise and fall of Mars Hill, that podcast.
18:55
Well, it was all fall, no rise.
18:58
And just check the sources of everybody that was interviewed.
19:02
Sounds like to me, 99% of them aren't even Jesus' followers today.
19:06
So I don't know that I'd put a lot of stock in what those folks thought.
19:10
Now, I would not try to convince somebody that they should or should not listen to Driscoll.
19:14
I think that's probably a matter of conscience, you know, between them and the Lord.
19:18
Maybe it would be in the food-sacrifice to idols, kind of realm.
19:23
But it's for me, man.
19:25
I mean, I listened to his teaching because he's an unbelievably gifted Bible teacher.
19:31
And I feel like it's edifying to me and it's helpful to me.
19:35
But again, I haven't had a lot of personal interaction with him.
19:39
One time I reached out and asked him to do something for my son.
19:42
And in about two seconds, he said, "No problem, I'd be happy to do anything I could for you."
19:46
But that's what I know.
19:47
I never met Robbie Zachariah, but I believe most of the information that's come out.
19:51
But again, man, God uses all kinds of crooked people to preach His truth in this world.
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20:27
One I think another thing that is important for us to reckon with is we're not consistent
20:32
in our ability to mark and avoid, because I know some of those same people that are marking
20:37
avoiding Mark Driscoll, they're dancing to Thriller on Halloween without any regard to
20:42
the allegations to Michael Jackson and the things that he did with underage boys.
20:47
And then there are poets that people read.
20:49
And there are novelists that are rapists, and some of them are murderers.
20:54
People love Ty Cobb.
20:55
Ty Cobb murdered a guy.
20:57
And so they're just these things like we don't mark and avoid people that we typically like.
21:02
If we already didn't like Mark Driscoll, if he already rubbed us the wrong way, now we're
21:06
going to mark and avoid him, it's like, "Ah, okay."
21:08
But I'm okay with telling somebody, if I'm suggesting a Robbie Zacharice thing to him,
21:12
you know what I'm not going to share with him?
21:13
One of his speeches on sexual morality, that one's going to ring super hollow.
21:18
And so that would be something that I would tell someone like, "Hey, this guy was apparently
21:21
a sexual deviant, but also he was a tremendous Christian philosopher, just like Thomas Jefferson.
21:27
We have to hold him historically in tension."
21:29
He was the guy that was basically on the front end of eradicating slavery in America.
21:34
The first draft of the Declaration of Independence had in it that we should earn, not the Declaration,
21:39
but the US Constitution basically, no, it was the Declaration of Independence.
21:43
But it had in there that we were going to eradicate slavery, but he knew the Southern
21:46
States wouldn't have signed on, and so we would have never been able to break off from
21:49
the British because we would have never been a joined country in the same time.
21:52
So he's trying to abolish slavery while at the same time being a terrible owner of human
21:57
beings.
21:58
We got to be able to hold these things in tension.
22:00
Like, you know, it's what Thomas Olens talks about with trade-offs.
22:03
So appreciate your feedback on that.
22:05
Now this next question is from the one and only famous from the forging table, Matt Grassmeyer,
22:11
because a couple of these ago, I just mentioned a guy named Matt and he was like, "Oh, everybody
22:16
else gets the big forging table treatment, but then I'm just some guy named Matt."
22:20
Well, Matt is one of my oldest friends.
22:21
I didn't think I had to give him this big, huge introduction, but here you go.
22:25
The moustachioed man himself with the silky voice asked this very, very short but awesome
22:30
question.
22:31
What is your favorite book of the Bible to teach from?
22:34
Oh, wow.
22:37
Mm-hmm.
22:39
Probably.
22:41
What a question.
22:42
It's good one. James, James.
22:46
I don't feel you're going to say that.
22:48
Well, it's just, okay, so my mind first goes to Romans, but just 9 and 10, not the funnest
22:56
topics to unpack because there's, for thousands of years, there's been a lot of theological
23:02
debate about what this means.
23:03
You know what I mean?
23:04
Then I thought about Philippians, I love that because of the theme of joy, but James
23:10
is just, it basically requires the least amount of work, because you just say what it says.
23:16
And I think a lot of it is, I mean, imagine if you grew up with Jesus, right?
23:20
You were not going to tell parables.
23:21
You were like, I grew up with this dude talking about stories.
23:24
People would ask him a question and he's like, well, let me tell you about three little
23:26
birds.
23:27
We're like, all right.
23:28
James just said this is it.
23:29
So, and I just told on it last year, which was a lot of fun, just to march through James.
23:34
We're actually this year, no last year, yeah.
23:37
Yeah.
23:38
So, it's 23 March through James, and here's the funny thing is I feel like, I feel like
23:42
you hold back sometimes when you're preaching.
23:44
I mean, you, you kind of let it fly, but I can tell sometimes like, ah, he wanted to
23:48
go a little further.
23:49
He wanted to say more.
23:50
So that's why I think you like James, because James just like, here it is, everybody, like
23:54
don't hate the player hate the game.
23:56
Don't hate the messenger.
23:57
Like it just is what it is.
23:59
And so I think you like a little bit more of that cut and dry style than you show everybody.
24:02
You think maybe in 2024, that can be one of your resolutions is to [inaudible] more people off
24:06
in your congregation.
24:07
I think we can make that happen.
24:08
Well, the list is already pretty long.
24:10
So we'll see.
24:11
Very good.
24:12
Okay.
24:13
Well, we'll see what we can do about that.
24:14
All right.
24:15
We have a question that is combined.
24:16
Well, it's not combined.
24:17
It's from two different people, but I'll read both of them.
24:18
This first one is from Benjamin again, Benjamin, thank you so much for being a donor.
24:21
A lot of guys don't jive with modern Christian music.
24:23
In fact, many listen to country music.
24:26
It's not hard to see this when you compare some feminine Christian track to Jason Aldin's
24:30
try that in a small town.
24:32
Some songs are raunchy or sing casually about sin, while others seem fine in our love song
24:37
songs, slash reminiscent songs.
24:39
How would you go about listening to secular songs and where do you draw the line for songs
24:43
that men of Christ should not listen to?
24:45
And this is related to that question.
24:47
This is from Ryan again, Ryan, thank you for being a donor contemporary Christian music
24:51
CCM looks to have become so in goal to with secular culture.
24:55
Do you see a biblical decline in this industry?
24:58
So there's a lot of things in here.
25:00
It's mainly around contemporary Christian music.
25:02
But if you're listening to secular music, because that's one thing about country music
25:05
that I talked about in country music theology is just because it has a Southern twang to
25:08
it doesn't mean it's more moral.
25:10
They're singing about the same things that a rapper would mumble during one of their
25:14
songs.
25:15
They're talking about sleeping with random women and getting drunk and getting high.
25:18
It's not really that different from your least favorite rapper.
25:20
So take that wherever you want to go with it.
25:23
Oh, man, what a complex issue.
25:26
First, I will agree with you 100% that what people are mostly talking about is preference,
25:31
not God's precepts.
25:33
So Alan Jackson sings way down your under by the Chattahoochee.
25:36
What a terrible song, man.
25:38
He's like, if you don't put out, I'm taking you home and I'm going to go find somebody
25:41
that will.
25:42
But man, it's a catchy tune.
25:44
We can ride around and truck, all right.
25:46
Which by the way, can we just can we just take an aside and say, why did our parents,
25:50
well, my parents, why did they let me like a seven year old kid sing hoochie koochie at
25:54
the top of my lungs in public at the pizza hub buffet?
25:57
Why in the world did you all guys let that happen?
25:59
Come on now.
26:00
It's all cultural, bro, because culturally it was not offensive like to our southern,
26:05
you know, country folk.
26:07
But yeah, and so you're absolutely right.
26:10
There's a lot of hip hop songs, but but culturally it offends a generation's preferences.
26:16
That's why it's so easy to point out all of the same content that is evil.
26:20
I think when it comes to listen to quote, unquote secular music, it is the content and
26:25
the intent that makes something Christian or secular.
26:29
So not the music style.
26:31
You've talked about this before because you have a very unique style of music that you
26:34
like.
26:35
It sounds amazing.
26:37
Amazing.
26:38
Amazing.
26:39
Great.
26:40
It's personal.
26:41
So, but the way to think about it is not good, bad.
26:44
You got to think when culture officers, something, there's three ways that we can view this.
26:48
There are things that need to be rejected.
26:51
There are things that need to be received.
26:53
And then there are things that can be redeemed.
26:55
And there's a lot of secular music that they don't have the Lord in mind whatsoever, but
27:01
it's very redeemable because there's some by his common grace, some godly qualities
27:06
like love and sacrifice and things like that.
27:09
There are some things that just need to be outright rejected.
27:14
And then man, and then there are some country songs that are very like that Larry Fleet
27:21
song.
27:22
That's where I find God.
27:23
I love it, bro, I mean, more than love it, like, but I'm such a country guy.
27:28
Like I know, if you don't know what an Evan root is, you're not going to get into that
27:31
song anyway.
27:32
Okay.
27:33
Barstool on an Evan root.
27:34
Yeah.
27:35
You're absolutely right.
27:36
Or barstool.
27:37
Same one interest few.
27:38
Yeah.
27:39
Yeah.
27:40
That's it, bro.
27:41
I love it.
27:42
I love it.
27:43
I love it.
27:44
I love it.
27:45
I love it.
27:46
So anyway, but that's the way to think about these things.
27:47
It's there are things that need to be rejected because to say that is sin.
27:51
There's some things that can be redeemed.
27:53
Like that is a that is a redeemable biblical quality that we can receive.
27:57
And then there's some things that you just you just outright take and say, I don't care
28:01
who sings it.
28:04
That's a God glorifying song, regardless of the genre of music.
28:08
Now in regards to Christian music, I don't know what ton I think a couple of things happened.
28:17
Back when like Jeff Moore and Michael W. Smith and Steven Curtis Chapman, when they were
28:23
selling out stadiums, there was something to it because they would say we are creating
28:32
performances to be consumed by believers.
28:37
That was their intent.
28:39
And that I think I think one of the downfalls is when when worship music became mainstream,
28:48
I don't know that it's a good idea that the background at Chick-fil-A while you're in the
28:52
bathroom peeing is a worship tune that you kind of recognize.
28:56
Yeah.
28:57
There is there is still something about there's a sacredness should take more attention from
29:07
God's people to say, this is not just a throwaway background song.
29:12
This song should focus my eyes towards Jesus.
29:15
Now the one thing I would encourage you to understand though is if a song is too feminine
29:21
for you, the key word there is for you.
29:24
You just have to at least go, my preference is not this type of music.
29:29
So you don't don't put that in the God's precepts.
29:33
That God likes all kinds of different music and a lot of it just depends on where you're
29:37
from and what represents your heart.
29:42
And so you've talked about this ad nauseam, which is great man, they're all kind of different
29:46
types of music.
29:47
God is a very diverse God, he's created all kinds of different types of people and we
29:51
all express love and worship towards him.
29:54
I don't think it takes very long though in today's contemporary Christian music world
29:59
to go find some people that sing the kind of music you like.
30:02
One of my favorite bands now that you turn me on to is the altar music.
30:06
And so if the dude likes country music, get you some altar music, it is very, very theologically
30:12
accurate lyrics and it's really well done and I can't get enough of it.
30:17
Yeah, shout out to Maddie Montgomery and the altar church.
30:19
I want to keep that going just a little bit because just as one aside to all the people
30:23
out there that think demon notes exist, that thing certain guitar riffs or certain drumbeats
30:28
are irredeemable, they're irredeemably satanic, please stop being so shortsighted.
30:33
But a lot of that is actually rooted in some serious like racism stuff.
30:42
Like I mean, there was a whole bent that said any music with drums came out of Africa and
30:46
things from Africa or demonic and it takes about one second from a guy with a Bible to
30:51
realize that most of the hymns that we're singing were bar tunes in the 1500s to realize, wait
30:56
a minute, you don't have a theological problem.
30:59
You have an ethnic sociological problem with this music.
31:03
And let's talk about that.
31:06
Yeah, absolutely and where did the church explode first?
31:11
Not in Europe, y'all had exploded like an Ethiopia and other parts of Africa.
31:14
So you got to be real careful.
31:16
And so, but another thing in addition to that, like again, when people, I always ask them
31:20
the same thing, people that are like, hey, metal music can't possibly serve God, you need
31:23
to remove that from your show.
31:24
I'm like, how little do you think of the God of the universe that there are noises that
31:31
I can make with sticks or guitar strings that he can't redeem?
31:35
Are you out of your mind?
31:37
But we need to keep this going, but we have to be brief because we both got to wrap this
31:40
up soon.
31:41
You and I've talked about this privately, but I think this, this bears repeating.
31:44
You've talked about several times in your sermons that Satan was, he was like the worship
31:49
leader of the heavenlies, right?
31:51
And so he was either made of instruments or he was an instrument or he played instruments,
31:56
some sort of the way like that.
31:57
We don't know exactly how to define it.
31:59
And so it kind of hit me one day whenever I was like driving down the road, I'm like,
32:02
wait a minute, music is so all encapsulating for people.
32:06
And it gets them to this crazy place.
32:08
Like when you watch Swifties at a Taylor Swift concert or when you go back and watch
32:12
video of like the Beatles and the fans that were in the stands or people, I know people
32:16
like because I've been to a lot of metal shows, they will literally cut themselves before
32:20
they will go into the mosh pit so that they bleed on people while they're mashing.
32:23
Like there's, but music causes people to move in this way.
32:26
I feel like of all the chosen flavors of temptation that God or that Satan would have to give
32:33
to his, his minions, it would be through music because that's the language he understood.
32:37
It's kind of like, you know, maybe a musician has a hard time describing in words to somebody
32:42
like in a conversation, how they feel, but maybe they can write that poem or write that
32:46
song and maybe it's three chords in the truth and they can get their feelings out.
32:50
Am I maybe drawing some lines that aren't there or is there maybe something to that?
32:54
Well, I think there's a lot to that.
32:55
I mean, so what you're talking about is Ezekiel 28, where Lucifer was in charge of leading
33:01
worship for the heavenly host.
33:04
And I think where his pride is, is he would, so God was the source of light that was going
33:08
to refract through him to lead worship to the heavenly host and he gets tired of being looked
33:14
through and wanted to be looked to.
33:17
He wanted to sit on that seat.
33:18
Okay.
33:19
So he gets cast down.
33:20
He's such a good liar.
33:21
He convinces the third of the angels to go with him.
33:23
And, and then you get to Genesis one, two and three, everything God creates, the enemy
33:28
tries to corrupt.
33:30
And if you look at Genesis one, look at the rhythm in which creation was created, everything
33:36
about this, why did he take six days and then rest on the seventh?
33:41
He could have just said everything and everything's there, but he doesn't.
33:45
Days one, two and three, he creates the environments in which he fills in the corresponding days
33:50
of four, five and six and there was evening and there was morning, the next day, there's
33:54
a rhythm to it.
33:55
He creates seasons.
33:56
It's why people like to sit at the beach and watch the waves, it's our heart beats
34:00
and a rhythm.
34:01
I think all of that is tied to why music gets to places in our hearts where words can't.
34:08
And then the enemy takes what God created and he corrupts it.
34:11
And so now one of the most influential means to change a culture is music.
34:19
And if you look at the corruption and the content, regardless of style in the, in music
34:25
over the last, say the eighties and nineties, then there's no doubt that we're living in
34:31
such depraved society because the music made it palatable for us to begin to treat people
34:37
like commodities and sex outside of marriage and kill whoever you want.
34:42
So I think you're very much on to something when you've heard the quote and people said
34:46
the quote before the law is a teacher.
34:48
And so we look at something like Roe v. Wade, which was the law of the land from the early
34:52
seventies.
34:53
And so you had multiple generations of people that said, well, it's legal.
34:56
So it must be moral.
34:57
The same thing.
34:58
Art is a teacher as well.
35:00
And so the, the lyrical content of things that parents allow their children to listen
35:06
to, like whenever I was growing up, my parents would literally, or my mom, she would read
35:11
the lyrics because that was when they, you know, CDs and their lyrics would be printed
35:14
in there.
35:15
If there was anything that was reprehensible, according to her, I had to take it back to
35:18
Hastings.
35:19
And that was just the way that it was.
35:20
We weren't going to be exposed to that.
35:22
But then I hear these kids singing along or dancing along to these songs on TikTok or whatever
35:26
that are literally talking about sex outside of marriage, violent, penetrative rape, you
35:32
know, dealing drugs, like taking advantage of people, hurting people, killing people.
35:37
And they're just singing along because the beat sounds nice.
35:39
And it's like parents, y'all are asleep with the wheel, wormwood is not dead.
35:44
Like he, he just found a new person to torture.
35:46
You know what I mean?
35:47
But here, I feel like I'm about to bust this off into another thing and I don't want your
35:49
staff to hate me.
35:50
So that's all for me in terms of this one.
35:53
Welcome again to 2024.
35:54
I think that's off to a good start.
35:56
Anything else where we let you get out of here?
35:57
Yeah.
35:58
Oh, you were.
35:59
Thank you.
36:00
Your books to read, you mentioned anything responsible in the top five.
36:04
You didn't have to do that.
36:05
I really appreciate that.
36:06
It means a lot.
36:07
Well, like I've told you before and like I tell everybody, I feel no need to give compliments
36:11
to people when they don't deserve it.
36:13
And so it's like, if you suck, I may not tell you you suck or I might tell you that you
36:17
suck.
36:18
And again, I feel no desire or pool to give somebody any plot is that they didn't earn
36:23
and that they didn't deserve.
36:24
I think you and your co-author did a fantastic job on that book.
36:27
You've already given me some peaks behind the curtain on some of the other stuff you
36:30
have coming up.
36:31
That you're working on.
36:32
I'm very, very excited for that, but my standards are high, Joby.
36:34
So if you and Charles don't hit the mark, I will be sure to tell everybody through this
36:38
microphone.
36:39
You understand?
36:40
Yes, sir.
36:41
We'll do our best.
36:42
All right.
36:43
We'll see you next time, Joby.
36:44
Peace.
36:45
Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode.
36:47
Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five
36:50
star review.
36:51
If you want to come speak alive at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an email
36:54
to info@undontin.life.
36:56
That's I N F O at undontin.life.
36:59
Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else,
37:03
including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way.
37:05
Just go to www.undontin.life.
37:08
And also we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for our
37:12
content.
37:13
The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self-titled debut album
37:17
on Face Down Records.
37:18
The links are in the description.
37:20
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
37:22
Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
37:28
Keep seeking the lion of Judah.