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1:18
This is
1:33
a great question today.
1:39
But I had to start out in Spanish because the last time I heard you talk, it wasn't in
1:43
English.
1:44
It was a voice that sounded like yours.
1:46
But it was in Español.
1:47
And so can you give us a peek behind the curtain?
1:50
What you guys are trying to do?
1:51
Are we taking over Central America?
1:52
Is that what's happening?
1:54
No, man, our communications team has figured out through AI how to translate sermons in
2:01
my voice into Spanish.
2:03
And we've got a pretty significant Spanish-speaking population in and around Jacksonville.
2:09
And we have a lot of Spanish-speaking folks that come to church, but English is the second
2:12
language.
2:13
And so we're just trying to get the gospel out to anybody and everybody we can.
2:17
All right.
2:18
Well, I don't know how many people would listen to my show if I talked like I did at the beginning
2:22
the whole time.
2:23
But maybe that's something that we can look at, but we needed to get in right here from
2:27
the jump.
2:28
You and I were talking about this earlier, and I was like, wanted to pause it and to wait
2:30
till we got on the show.
2:31
So obviously there's a pastor that you and I are both huge fans of that got into some
2:35
hot water here recently, and that's Alistair Begg.
2:38
Alistair Begg might have the best, like, two-minute clip in the history of any sermon where he talked
2:42
about the man on the middle cross.
2:44
You've said before, that's what you listen to before you run out on stage and do your
2:47
thing.
2:48
But here recently for those that are not caught up on this, he was asked on part of his radio
2:52
show that this woman called in and said, I can't remember what part of her family was,
2:57
but that one of the family members was transgender and they were getting married, but transgender
3:02
is not real.
3:03
So it's basically a gay wedding and asked Alistair Begg what he should do or what they should
3:08
do in that moment.
3:09
Alistair Begg was like, not only do I think you should go to the wedding, I think you
3:11
should buy them a gift.
3:13
And it took the woman by surprise, she was shocked to hear him say that.
3:16
That was like back in September or something like that, but it just kind of hit the skids
3:19
on Twitter here in the last couple of weeks.
3:22
But then even yesterday before we got on here, he got dropped by his radio station that puts
3:28
his sermons out across like 1,500 different radio stations or something like that.
3:33
Because apparently they called him and his team to get him to maybe qualify his statement
3:38
a little bit further and maybe even give him a chance to be like, yeah, maybe I shouldn't
3:41
have worded it that way, but apparently he doubled down.
3:44
And he said in no uncertain terms, we need to start taking risks in order to spread the
3:49
gospel to more people.
3:51
Now as you just described you and your team, you're taking the risk, excuse me, by going
3:55
into Spanish to reach your people.
3:58
But it seems like Alistair Begg is, you know, he's not going the way of Andy Stanley because
4:02
Andy Stanley won't even answer if homosexuality is a sin.
4:04
I think Alistair Begg would clearly say that it is a sinful behavior that we shouldn't
4:07
participate in, and yet he thinks we should participate in a ceremony celebrating a sin.
4:13
So give me your read on it.
4:15
What are your thoughts on it?
4:16
Is he right?
4:17
Is he wrong?
4:18
What would you have done if you were asked that question?
4:19
Ready?
4:20
Let's go.
4:21
Big qualification is I love Alistair Begg and until you sent me this particular quote,
4:29
I don't think I'd ever read or heard him say anything that I didn't aim in.
4:32
Okay, so, same, I'm into him, a marriage ceremony is a unique event that is different than any
4:42
other kind of ceremony or any other kind of event that you would attend if you're invited
4:47
to attend because historically, if you're doing a Christian wedding, you're not, you're
4:57
not just an attender, you're actually a participant in this covenant that's happening.
5:04
So you'll probably remember from movies or whatnot, historically, there was this section
5:09
of the wedding where the pastor would ask if anyone sees any reason while these two should
5:14
not be joined together, speak now or forever hold your peace.
5:19
Well, if you're honest, you would have to be like, it's two dudes.
5:24
That's a reason.
5:25
Okay, so you're not just an observer, you're an actual participant.
5:30
Now I don't do the, when I do weddings, I don't do the, speak now or forever hold your
5:35
peace, but I do a part, when you ask the question of intent, will you take this man to be your
5:41
lawfully wedded wife?
5:42
Will you take this man to be your lawfully wedded husband?
5:44
I do, I do.
5:46
And then I step around and look at everybody there and say, we live in a world that does
5:50
not help people stay married, will you do your part to love, pray for, and help them
5:55
fulfill their marital covenant till death do they part?
5:58
And then I say, and if not, then you're uninvited to the rehearsal, I mean, the reception and
6:02
everybody laughs.
6:03
But what I'm asking them is you are not a casual observer of what's happening.
6:08
You're an active participant in this community for these two people.
6:12
Because of that, I do not think the Christian should go to a same sex wedding at all.
6:20
Because you're not just observing that by letter of the law, they're getting married.
6:25
You are participating in it.
6:28
I would say a birthday party, a hundred percent, even if it's a birthday party for their kid,
6:35
which I don't really think they should have, you know, even all of that kind of stuff,
6:38
you're not a participant in it, an active participant.
6:42
But if you're a guest at a wedding, you are.
6:44
And so that's the distinction there.
6:46
I do think we should be doing everything we can to share the gospel with everybody that
6:49
needs Jesus, which is everybody.
6:52
But that's over the line because of that participation in the covenant.
6:57
Yeah.
6:58
And for me personally, I don't think this is like a cancelable offense by him because
7:02
I listen to pastors who's theology.
7:04
I don't agree with the 100%.
7:06
I listen to pastors who have said really stupid things that they've doubled down on because
7:09
of some sort of pride issue or something.
7:11
But this came up for me about 15 years ago, I had a buddy whose his two of his best friends
7:16
were gay with each other.
7:18
And he was straight, but those were like his best friends from like elementary school.
7:21
They ended up being gay and getting, you know, married or square, scare quotes around married.
7:26
And he said, Kyle, I don't know what to do.
7:27
Should I go to the wedding?
7:28
And I said, no, but what I do think you should do is you and your wife should be the first
7:33
family to host them after they get back from their non wedding, non honeymoon and host them
7:39
for dinner.
7:40
Like you should have them over and you should level them and you should show them the gospel
7:44
and preach the gospel to them.
7:46
But in no way, shape or form, can you be a best man?
7:49
Can you be a groomsman?
7:50
Any of those types of things.
7:52
But as this was going on, Joby, it just brought up again, this whole notion of pronoun hospitality.
7:58
There are a lot of Christians that think, okay, this guy, I knew him as Larry and I introduced
8:03
himself as Mary and he wants me to refer to him as Mary and use feminine pronouns.
8:08
Now if you change your name, Joby, if all of a sudden you say, my name's Janet, I'll call
8:12
you Janet.
8:13
If you tell me, I need to refer to you using feminine pronouns.
8:16
Now you're causing me to sin because you're causing me to knowingly lie.
8:21
What is your advice, I guess, to people that are really, really nice people, Joby, they
8:25
don't like ruffling feathers.
8:27
They don't like conflict at all.
8:28
They want to go along to get along.
8:30
They want to be known for what they're for, not what they're against that just go down
8:34
this road of pronoun hospitality.
8:38
I think that there's a part of their intent, well, first and foremost, I wouldn't do it.
8:44
Just don't use a pronoun.
8:46
You know you don't have, a pronoun is a replacement for a noun, so just always use the noun,
8:51
you know, that's what I would do.
8:53
Even though it may be cumbersome to continuously say the name Kyle and never say he, I just
8:58
say Kyle, just say the name over and over and over, all right.
9:02
So I think while they have, they may have a decent intent, what goes through my mind
9:09
is, is when King Nebuchadnezzar says, when you hear the music, you better bow.
9:15
And we, the church has celebrated the boys that didn't bow forever.
9:21
And it seems like a pretty close connection in our culture where, listen man, when they
9:28
were trying to pass legislation, they did pass legislation on same sex marriage.
9:34
And Christians, people like me would say, okay, hold on, we're talking about different
9:39
things here.
9:41
Why don't you just call it civil union for the legitimate things like health care and
9:48
can I visit my person in the hospital or passing, you know, like wills and all of that?
9:53
Okay.
9:54
God has defined marriage as a man and a woman. And so why are you trying to like play our
9:59
game and change all the rules? Why don't you just make them a new set of rules for what
10:03
you're talking about? And they're like, well, how does this impact you? Well, if you fast
10:08
forward a little bit, the way it impacts me and you is now, if we play the music and you
10:13
don't bow down to this idol, then you are the bigot and could even one day be prosecuted
10:20
for it.
10:21
Right.
10:22
So that's the difference. So this is just one more step in bowing down to the idol when
10:29
the king of the air plays his tune that is outside of what scripture says. And I'm just
10:36
telling you, it's going to cost you for sure it's going to cost you, but it costs Shadrach,
10:40
Meshach and Abednego and it costs Daniel. And so the real question is, who was your
10:46
Lord, man? And if Jesus is your Lord, you got to do what he says, no matter the cost.
10:50
Hey guys, real quick, as you've likely heard me talk about on the show before, it took
10:54
me forever before I started taking supplements of any kind. I was always nervous about taking
10:59
like whey protein and creatine or really anything beyond that, because I was just afraid of
11:03
what was in the product and if it was going to like give me cancer someday or something
11:06
like that. And I was always scared of these companies, these supplement companies, just
11:10
cutting corners and using low quality products and eventually putting things in their products
11:15
that could cause problems for me and my body. So I've always wanted to partner up with an
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American company that uses high quality ingredients in their supplements. And that's why I want
11:23
to remind you guys that we are partnered with Jocko Fuel. So Jocko Fuel is Jocko willing
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12:22
Well, like you and I talked about last time, the king of the air, I think works through
12:25
music specifically because he was a worship leader in heaven. So why wouldn't he use the
12:30
worship of music here on earth to get his will done? But also, there's nothing more nefarious
12:35
happening than the LGBTQ thing, not only because there's a plus on the end, which basically
12:40
can mean anything, not only the fact that, you know, the buy and the trans don't really
12:46
don't really jive together. And people are trying to figure out feminism and how that
12:49
works with trans ideology. But the thing about it is, is if you can attack the institution
12:55
of marriage, you are undoing the thing God gave us to where we can best understand Jesus's
13:00
love for us because Jesus died for his bride. We as men want to die for our bride as well.
13:06
That's kind of that same thing. But also, if we get you to believe that gender is not
13:11
real. And as Jordan Peterson said here recently, there's no more fundamental truth than that
13:15
there are separate genders that there are separate sexes. If we can get you to believe
13:21
that we can get you to believe anything. So it's just one of the most nefarious things
13:25
that we're seeing in our modern moment. But I need to talk to you right now about a quote
13:30
of yours that you say often that I just hate. I hate this quote. I hate him more than anything.
13:37
I've heard your sermons. I've watched you talk in person, you and I have hung out. You've
13:40
said a bunch of things I agree with, but there's one statement that just drives me up a wall
13:44
and it's this, you can be right, or you can be married. That's right. Don't don't say
13:50
it. Don't say that's right. Yeah, because I haven't even gotten to why I think it sucks.
13:53
Okay, this is why I think that that statement sucks. It's because truth exists. And so if
13:58
your wife is wrong about something, not a different opinion, not has a different feeling
14:05
about how things should be done in the household or with parenting or whatever. But if she's
14:09
wrong, it is incumbent upon us as the head of the house, not the head of her, but as
14:15
the head of the household. And as her partner to correct that wrong and say, Hey, we are
14:21
to be people of truth. We are not to lie. We're certainly not to lie knowingly. And so in
14:26
that moment, I feel like I need a little bit more context because every time you say that
14:29
I go leave and my shoulders get up and it gets my hackles all up and you've said it to my
14:34
face before and I don't appreciate it. So help me out, Joby, help me.
14:38
Yeah, I would point you to Ephesians five and that husbands should love their, love their
14:42
wives as Christ loved the church. And fundamentally Jesus could have been right. I mean, he was
14:50
right when he comes to the earth. He's sinless, but he doesn't point at us and say, I'm right.
14:59
You're wrong. You figure it out. He submits himself and becomes sin on our behalf that
15:07
we could be made his righteousness. That's really what I mean. Now, I am not saying you
15:13
should overlook sin in the life of your wife because in the life of any believer that you
15:19
love and you have a relationship with, we are called to encourage one another, hold each
15:22
other accountable, you know, get the log out of our eyes so that we can help them get the
15:28
speck out. I'm not saying that you, I mean, in that same passage, we're supposed to wash
15:32
our wives in the water of the word so that they would be sanctified and be presented as
15:37
holy and blameless unto the Lord for sure. In any good marriage, there's iron sharpening
15:43
iron because we're mutually submitted to one another out of reverence for Christ. But
15:47
fundamentally, if you have to be right, there's a lot of people that were right. They just
15:52
ain't married anymore. That's what I mean. There's not married anymore. And so we as
15:58
husbands are called constantly to lay down our right to be right so that we can love
16:05
our wives. And again, I'm not saying you overlook sin. I'm not, of course, there's, you know,
16:12
they could be wrong about something factual and you can point that out. That's not what
16:16
I mean. I'm talking about, I got to win the fight. I got to come out on top. My way is
16:22
the way. And that's out of the line with how Jesus treated us as ransomed wives, you know,
16:32
as the church.
16:33
All right. So let's talk about hills that are worth dying on because usually when I'm
16:38
told that you were telling me that in the context of a fight that you deemed to be between
16:43
me and my wife to be completely not worth it. And you basically told me you're like, yeah,
16:47
Kyle, that's where you need to drop that. And I was like, you don't know me, Joby. And
16:50
we got a fist fight in your truck while driving down the highway. It was fun. But like, what
16:54
are those hills? And I know it's contextual to the relationship. So we need to be fair.
16:57
But just in general, what are those hills that families should die on? Should it be, you
17:03
know, what type of school the kids go to, what types of activities are going to be a
17:06
part of and not be a part of the type of church that you're going to like, where do you kind
17:10
of, as a man, if you're like, okay, I'm with you. I'm with you, Joby. I want to lower
17:14
his cries of the church. I want to be sacrificial, but I can't sacrifice everything. Where do
17:18
I draw that line?
17:19
Man, I think it's, I think it'd be a really good idea to identify the difference between
17:23
God's precepts and your preferences and as much as possible layer preferences down.
17:28
I share it while I share your convictions on how you should educate children in these
17:32
days, because of the, that, um, that episode just did about did the commies win or whatever
17:39
that was called. I don't think you could be more right. I mean, there was a plan from
17:45
back in the day to completely corrupt our schools.
17:48
It's brutal.
17:49
However, even though I don't know that you can find a Bible verse to full on say, if
17:56
you send your kid to public schools, then that's a sin. Do you know what I mean? So there are
18:02
some that might be that bad. So what's, what's hard is when you have, when you have preferences
18:09
that are based on the Bible, but it's not like God's priesthood that God's law. So the
18:13
hills to die on our sin. We don't, we're not okay with just outright sin. You know, you
18:20
don't just continuously roll over and serve your wife if she continuously cheats on you.
18:27
Jesus said that breaks the covenant, um, things like abuse and mistreatment of children, those
18:33
things are obviously outside the bounds. I, I think it's, it's going best when, I mean,
18:40
you can't have this literal conversation with your wife because it won't go good, but this
18:43
is kind of a caricature of how it ought to go. All right. I'm head of this household.
18:50
I am ultimately responsible for everything. I guess I have the final say. So what do you
18:57
want to do? And then she says it and you go, okay, as the head of house, I'm going to lay
19:01
down all of my preferences and we're going to do that because I love you. Um, a really
19:06
an actual live example is Gretchen and I were supposed to lead a mission trip years and
19:11
years ago and the weekend before at church, Reagan, my daughter got her toenail ripped
19:16
off by and in like a door. And, um, it was pretty gnarly. Gretchen, all the mom instincts
19:24
kicked in for G. And so she wanted to bail on the mission trip to take care of Reagan.
19:29
And I'm thinking it's a toenail. This is the devil trying to keep you from taking the gospel.
19:33
And we had a pretty, I mean, you know, a pretty heating exchange over this thing. Cause I was
19:37
like, you're being ruled by fear, dah, dah, dah, dah. She knows I go to the woods on Mondays
19:41
to write my sermon. She sends me this long text that basically said, I know you're talking
19:47
to the Lord today. I know the Lord speaks to you. I know the Lord has put you as the
19:52
head of our house. So whatever you decide, I'll be okay with. Then she said, I may be
19:58
emotional about it and made me take me a second to get on board with what God tells you about
20:03
our family. That's what she said, bro, that is, that is what wives submit to your husband
20:08
is. So I get home and I go, the Lord has spoken. She's like, all right, what do you say? I go,
20:14
tell me what you want to do again? She's like, I think I should stay home with Reagan. I go,
20:17
it is decided you're staying home with Reagan. I do think at least that one time in our 23
20:24
years, that's what mutual submission as unto the Lord looks like. Like she invited me to
20:30
lead and I leveraged my leadership to listen to my wife. And she was right, the whole terminal
20:36
fell off while we were like while I was out of town. And it was good for mom to be there.
20:41
So that's when we're getting it right. Most of the time we want to be right, especially
20:46
dudes like me and you, because we fight for a living and we have Bible verses. And it's
20:52
pretty, we're pretty terrible people to fight with. And especially too, man, we speak for
20:57
a living. So guys like you and I with rightness on our side can leverage our words to kind
21:05
of hem our wives into an unwinnable position. That is, that is exactly the opposite of what
21:13
Jesus did for us. That conversation has literally come up with Kelsey and I to where at one point
21:19
she stopped arguing with me. She goes, you've gotten really good at arguing. I don't have
21:24
anything I can say that's going to overcome it. I can just tell you I don't like this.
21:28
And it's like, ugh, that's where you're like, I'm super right, but I feel icky. It's like
21:32
I don't want to feel icky. Now I'm doing something here that I swear I'm never going
21:35
to do. But then I get into the Q and A and then I just start dominating the questions
21:39
with my own questions. Don't worry. We will get to listen to her questions and fan questions
21:42
here in a second. But you mentioned something here recently that I think a lot of people
21:46
maybe you've not even thought to ask about. But I remember years and years ago, Matt Chandler
21:52
was doing a sermon where he talked about if a woman was in an abusive situation where
21:56
she's literally being physically accosted by her husband, right? Being beaten up, you
22:01
know, what would the church do? And he gave his answer. So we'll let people, you know,
22:05
I'll let him speak for himself on that. But when people look at the grounds for divorce,
22:10
that's death and breaking of the covenant via adultery. And so I
22:16
I
22:17
Corinthian talks about abandonment and I would put abuse under that. Okay, so let's talk
22:22
more about that. So let's say a guy in church of 1122, he's hitting his woman. Y'all know
22:27
he's hitting his woman. She wants to be the good wife and she doesn't think she can leave.
22:31
She's scared for her, scared for the kids. What do you do as her pastor in that moment?
22:36
Call the police and put him in prison immediately. Get her help. Help her understand that first
22:44
Corinthians, Paul says, Hey, listen, you should do everything you could try to do to stay married.
22:50
You know, here's a couple of things that break the covenant, but abandonment is one of those.
22:56
And when you get physical, when you know, physical abuse is bad, it's worse than abandonment.
23:02
So I would put that in that category and come around her. Now, if the tomb is empty, anything
23:07
is possible. So people can repent and people can change. If you don't believe that, we just
23:13
got to quit this whole Christianity, man. But but it is not fair to ask a woman to put
23:19
herself or her children in any kind of dangerous situation like that. So, so you call the police.
23:26
This guy gets arrested. He's tried. He's convicted and all that. They're still married though.
23:30
Yes, they are. But I think Paul says that you can get divorced if you're abandoned in
23:37
first Corinthians. So I think she could and should, well, she could file for divorce and
23:45
I would support it. Okay. So before there's the people that there are people that want
23:51
to get divorced and they want to meet with me. I don't know why they want to meet with
23:54
me. They know what I'm going to say. There's only infidelity abandonment that that I think
24:02
the Bible makes concessions for you to get divorced. And again, I think abuse is under
24:07
that abandonment umbrella. But I, but I think you should do everything possible to stay
24:17
married. Even if it does end in divorce, what I found is people kind of in my office, they
24:22
want me to like, they think I'm like the evangelical pope and they want me to bless it and be
24:25
like, no, I don't worry about it. It's okay. And I don't do that, man. I don't. But what
24:31
I want them to understand, even if there is infidelity, even if it does end in divorce,
24:38
I want them to lay their head on the pillow one day, years from now and know with the Lord,
24:44
I did everything I could do. Like Paul says in Romans, as far as it was up to me, I tried
24:51
to lead, lead, live peaceably. But it wasn't possible.
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25:24
Okay, that's helpful because I know a lot of people are like, "Hey, we're strict. We're
25:28
going to do exactly what the scripture says. The scripture doesn't really speak to this."
25:32
That's why I tell people all the time is like, "The Bible is the source of ultimate truth,
25:35
but it's not the source of all truth. It can't tell me who won the Civil War. It can't tell
25:39
me what two heartiergens and one oxygen makes. It can't tell me any of those types of things."
25:45
Now, before there's a mutiny, I need to get on to the fan questions, guys. Again, if you
25:49
want to ask questions to Pastor Joby via this podcast, you have to be a monthly donor and
25:55
you can submit the questions via our inbox on social media or something like this. This
25:59
is a question from Redge who is one of our earliest followers. I think he was like our
26:03
first or second monthly donor. Thank you, Redge, for being a donor. Here's his question.
26:07
I know the church is not about me and my needs, but how do you know when it's okay to church
26:12
shop or full-on-change churches?
26:15
Well, first and foremost is, do they stand on the authority of the Word of God? That's
26:21
first and foremost. Anytime a preacher, pastor, leaders begin to move away from the authority
26:27
of God, Jesus is going to leave the building and get your things and get your kids and
26:33
not go back there. Then it begins to be about relationships, about serving, about—and again,
26:43
I think the question is not so much like, "What do I get out of it?" But participating
26:48
in that faith family, am I being discipled? Am I able to take steps of obedience in the
26:55
direction that God has called me to take? If not, for whatever reason, it may be time
27:02
for you to find another place. There's different seasons of life, man. We have people that
27:09
were part of 1122 for a long time, and for whatever reason, they've decided to go to
27:14
another church. We happily send those, bless those folks and do it. Maybe it's like kids
27:19
programming there, works better for their children, or it doesn't matter, whatever the
27:23
thing is. They have a women's ministry that we don't have, whatever, man. No problem
27:28
there. I do think it would be helpful to talk with the leadership of the church, though,
27:33
if you were involved as a mature believer should be involved in that church and let them know
27:38
what's going on. But if they're not teaching the Bible, you should get out immediately.
27:46
Outside of that, man, you kind of just got to pray, guess and go. But the key question,
27:51
though, is about your discipleship and you being plugged in to serve that church, not
27:55
just about a new church started and they've got better music. That's an illegitimate reason.
28:01
Yeah, I basically, once a day or once every other day, I get an email from a guy like,
28:05
"I live in wherever'sville, Tennessee. Is there a church in this area that you know
28:10
that's man-friendly?" And I'm just like, "In general, you need to look at, is it expository
28:14
preaching? Is it verse by verse or is it all subject matter-based that they sprinkle Bible
28:20
verses in on the back end? Is the church full of men? Are the men involved or the men singing?
28:26
Are the men volunteering? Are the words being sung from the stage? Should they make you think
28:32
of Jesus as your boyfriend or Jesus as the conquering king? But then also, I always end
28:37
with don't look for a place to serve you. Look for a place that you can serve. Maybe that's
28:41
the enormous church that used to be a Walmart. Maybe that's the church that has 100 people
28:46
and there's a spot specifically for you and your family. And so there's a whole lot that
28:50
you can sit in there. But the believer, church attendance is not an option, man. I know I'm
28:55
a pastor and I want people to go to church, but it's not like the church in Ephesus. It's
29:00
not like Paul said, find a man-friendly church in Ephesus. It was just the church, you know?
29:05
So you go, you plug in, you serve. And if you have options, then you choose the best of
29:11
your options. But if you don't have options, whatever, man, you know, it's the same thing.
29:16
That's all right. I was going to say the same thing. Like a lot of people have started
29:19
going to Faith Bible Church in Edmond, Oklahoma because I've mentioned it a lot on the show.
29:23
I don't love everything about that church. I just flat out don't. I've talked about it
29:27
here on the show before like it's not my favorite music. It's not my favorite like sermon style,
29:32
but it's a healthy church. And the fact that it's a healthy church overrides every other
29:38
thing that I might have a complain about because it's healthy. It grew very, very slow before
29:43
it blew up big and they take care of the kids very, very well. And I don't just mean babysitting.
29:48
I don't mean just giving them fun games to play, but actually trying to instill biblical
29:52
truths on the hearts of, you know, two and three year olds, like that's a big deal. So I'm with you on all that.
29:57
One more thing on this, one of the, I mean, one of the really positive things about church
30:01
online these days is we know lots and lots and lots of people that stay involved in their
30:08
church, even though they don't love the preaching and they don't love the music, but they've
30:14
got great relationships and they're in great Bible studies like you are in the foraging
30:18
table and you talk about your Sunday school. And then they just use 11 22 online or any
30:22
other church to just kind of supplement their, their weekend experience. And so I think that's
30:29
a totally okay thing to do is, you know, you can kind of get that preaching it scratched
30:36
and that worship it scratched online as you are a fully immersed member in your local church.
30:43
And I, I don't see a problem there.
30:45
Yeah, same thing. So if you listen to Shane Shane, because you don't like the band at your
30:48
church, great, you're supplementing. Like I've listened to basically every Matt Chandler
30:52
sermon since college, I've listened to every one of your sermons for the last two years.
30:55
I've listened to Al Surbegg and John MacArthur and, and Steve Lawson and all these different
30:59
guys. Those are all supplements and they all work. But I'm not called to serve those people's
31:04
churches and ministries. I'm called to serve the local church. And so that's why I'm there
31:07
doing that. All right. Next listener, donor question here is from Eric. When trying to
31:12
make a big decision, how much credence should someone give to signs and coincidences?
31:19
Um, very little only. Yeah, very little. You should read the word of God. And you should
31:29
never decide to do something that is out of line with what the word of God says. But like
31:34
you said earlier, it's not going to tell you what college to go to or who to work for.
31:38
You surround yourself with godly people, wise men or women, depending on who you are, that
31:44
can speak into it. And one of the key questions is, I mean, the great commission is the marching
31:52
orders of the church. And so how does that line up with Jesus saying, therefore go and
31:59
make disciples of all nations, you know, um, I would be very, very hesitant to look for
32:08
the signs and things. Cause there's just, you pretty much just see what you want. I mean,
32:12
I listen, Tebow comes to our church. And before he got married, I used to get these, I can't
32:18
even imagine what he got. I would get these long letters from these girls in our church.
32:22
And God had told them that it was my responsibility to connect them. And the things they would
32:27
describe, they would be like, you know, I woke up this morning right at 10, 15 and his
32:33
numbers 15 and every light was green and the sky was orange and blue today. And to steal
32:40
a JD quote, uh, I'd be like, oh, that sounds more like the preamble to a restraining order
32:45
than a sign from the Lord. So I'd be, I'd be suspect of being the interpreter of those
32:51
signs.
32:52
Well, I've heard very godly people say things like, I don't believe in coincidences and
32:56
anymore that I read the Bible too much. I'm like, I super duper believe in coincidences.
33:00
There are some times where you literally just bump into people. And then there are times
33:04
where you bump into people that, and it was preordained that that was going to happen
33:07
so that you would say something out of your face hole that would have an impact on them
33:10
in their life. But if you say everything in life is that way, boy, oh boy, are you going
33:15
to like start, you're going to get into like necromancing at some point because it's like,
33:18
well, this is going to be, you're just going to go down the sorcery line with that. So
33:22
we need to get in the next question here. And this one's from Vance. It's a little bit
33:25
of a long one. So let's dig in. A few years ago, I mentored a couple of guys as part of
33:29
my role as a supervisor at my job. I even helped one of them get back and forth to work
33:34
when his car was in the shop. On the day we fired one of them, the US Marshals rolled
33:39
up for child rolled him up for child porn. He's serving only five years instead of taking
33:44
the room temperature challenge. The other one quit and took another job. He has since raped
33:49
a seven year old girl and is serving 25. The amount of anger I have towards them is eating
33:53
me up. We want people to be saved, but I want them in hell. I'm angry and I don't see any
33:59
signs of and I didn't see any signs of it. So I could have done something about it. How
34:03
can I keep the anger from eating me up? I justify it by saying it's righteous anger.
34:08
So in my anger, I'm not sending. How can I trust people again?
34:13
Yeah, first and foremost, I'd I'd commend you to listen to what Paul said and not think
34:22
too highly of yourself. I mean, those are atrocious things. There's no doubt and just
34:27
this will be served. Hopefully on this side of eternity, but for sure on the other side.
34:34
And you should be righteously anger on behalf of the victim, not just because you're disappointed
34:41
in these people. These are very different things. I mean, one of the things that made
34:46
the Pharisees, the Pharisees is they just thought by their good works. They were better
34:51
than everybody else be very, very careful to not go there. And one, man, if you if you
34:58
do ministry and disciple people, just get ready for a lifetime of disappointment. I mean,
35:03
was there a better discipler than Jesus and all every single one of his disciples let him
35:08
down to different degrees? All right. So that's just a part of it. I'm thinking about John
35:14
chapter nine with the man born blind when they eventually get the blind guy and they're
35:19
like, all right. So what happened? And it's like the third time and he says, why are you
35:24
asking? Do you want to become a disciple too? And then they say, I love it so much. That's
35:28
my guy. And so, but they say, who are you to speak to us? You were born in utter iniquity
35:35
and you think you would teach us. You see, the problem there is they forgot that they
35:39
too were born in utter iniquity. And so you don't ever want to lose the posture of the
35:45
beggar that you've got nothing to bring to the Lord, but only hands wide open to receive.
35:51
And I'm saying that that because because anger will begin like, like when there's resentment
35:58
for a long time, which means a lot of oftentimes that comes from unforgiveness, see Matthew
36:02
chapter 18, forgiveness isn't about feelings. Forgiveness is you don't owe me anymore. And
36:08
you need to forgive those two guys for letting you down. I mean, because you gave them, you
36:13
gave them effort, you gave them attention, and they did atrocious things. And you feel
36:18
like they owe you an apology. They owe you better decisions. And you're going to need
36:23
to cancel that debt because what starts out as unforgiveness moves to resentment, which
36:29
moves to anger. And then man, if you get some misplaced anger, like you don't know what
36:34
to do with it because there's nothing you can do with it. I mean, you can't go beat
36:38
these guys up. There's nothing you can do with it. Then it'll begin to believe in even
36:42
other relationships. And before you know it, you have this like fair, cycle view of everybody.
36:47
Like I can't trust you. Well, of course, man, because everybody's going to let us down.
36:53
And so knowing that we let the Lord down and yet he would love us and redeem us and continuously
36:59
pursue us has to be at the forefront of your mind so that you can love and serve people,
37:05
even love and serve your enemies.
37:07
Well, that's what I talked about a few weeks ago, when it was the Epstein list came out
37:11
and everybody's real obsessed with and all that. And my feedback to that was let's not
37:15
all pretend like we're not depraved. We have different flavors of sin and their flavor
37:18
just happens to be like wretched diarrhea. But at the same time, it's like that's a sin
37:24
that can send that person to hell. And you lying to people is the sin that sends you
37:28
to hell. We all need the blood of Christ to cover that. Next question here is from Nathan.
37:33
Mormons, Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses all claim to be the one true church. What
37:38
is or should be the Protestant response to that claim? And why don't Baptists or Presbyterians
37:44
make that same claim while engaging in evangelism. The answer would be nope. I mean, two of
37:53
them are cults and one just has a really terrible theology of social geology. So, and none of
38:00
them line up with what Jesus said in Matthew 16 at Caesarea, Philippa. So, the response
38:08
is what Jesus, what Peter says is Caesarea Philippa that the church would be built upon
38:15
the public declaration that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God and the gates of
38:18
hell would not prevail against it. And I mean, part of the beauty of the Protestant movement
38:24
is we all agree, I mean, Orthodox Bible believing, Protestant churches believe that the church
38:32
is built on the good news of the gospel period. And we know that through the Bible period and
38:36
we're saved by faith period and that the authority is the scripture. And then there's all kind
38:40
of other things that we disagree on. And so there's all kinds of different flavors of
38:45
churches. So like mode of baptism or who gets to be a pastor and who does it. Okay, those
38:50
things are not essential to salvation. And so that's what the church is. It's built on
38:57
the rock that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.
39:00
All right. That was a very cogent answer. I didn't think we were going to get to this
39:04
next question, but I think we've got time. So this is the last one that I'll ask. This
39:07
is from Daniel. What does it look like to spend quality time in the word each day? Is
39:12
it just opening up the Bible and reading the Bible in a year through the Bible app? Or
39:15
is it taking a section and reading it slowly and trying to find the true meaning? Should
39:19
we use a concordance or other outside materials to help us understand the meaning of verses?
39:24
And it basically goes on from there. So what does it look like to spend quality time in
39:28
the word?
39:29
Doesn't matter. The thing you've got to understand is that the Bible is not the point. The Bible
39:35
is the means to an end and the end is Jesus. So see John chapter 15 where Jesus says abide
39:41
to me and I will abide in you. That's relationship terms. And then one of the ways that he says
39:46
that we abide in him or stay close to him is in his word, abide in my word and I will
39:51
abide in you. So none of those things that you said are bad and none of them are the
39:58
only thing that you should do. I wouldn't do the Bible roulette thing where you just
40:04
open up randomly and read randomly. That's not how it was written. So I would read through
40:09
books of the Bible at whatever chunk you want. There has like once maybe two years ago, I
40:16
have a hard time reading the Bible without thinking about preaching it, you know, which
40:21
is fine. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. And so what I decided to do for
40:25
my Bible reading time for an entire year was just listen on my Bible app because I couldn't,
40:31
I mean, I guess I could, but I chose not to stop it every time I had a thought. I just
40:35
wanted to take in huge chunks. Well, this year I'm doing like only the New Testament
40:41
one chapter at a time. And then sometimes I dive in real deep and then sometimes you
40:46
just kind of read the key is just to remember the point is not just the Bible in and of
40:52
itself that God's word is a means to an end. And that end is him being glorified by us
40:59
knowing him better, being obedient to him, being in relationship with him. And I think
41:04
when you do that, it kind of, it takes the legalism off. So for me, you know, on Mondays,
41:11
what Bible reading looks like to me is I'm sitting in the woods for a bunch of hours
41:14
trying to figure out how to preach it. Typically on Friday mornings, I'm sitting on my back
41:19
porch watching the birds come into my bird feeders, listening to some, some worship music
41:24
and just, I just kind of stay in it until my affections are stirred for him in that environment.
41:32
I know you and your forging table crew. It seems to me what stirs your affection, the
41:37
commentary is really get you going, you know? So the, the Puritans talk about mortification
41:43
and vivification. And so mortification just means you kill the sin before it kills you.
41:51
And vivification means you just do the things that stir your affections for the Lord that
41:56
grow your relationship with him. So those things can change seasonally. I would also
42:01
encourage you maybe do a thing that's not your norm for a season. So like, if you're
42:07
not a journaler, why don't you just try for like, just pick one book of the Bible and
42:12
journal through it. If you're not like a meditator or a scripture memorizer, why don't you do
42:17
that? Why don't you add some things that aren't just you're comfortable and go to? But generally
42:22
speaking, you should do the thing like, I don't know, that just, that just makes you
42:27
love Jesus more, whether that's commentaries or music or whatever it is. Yeah, I'll say
42:31
for me, what stirs my affection for the Lord is whenever I feel like I know what he's trying
42:35
to say. Because I'll read a section of scripture and be like, and I'm just like, is this English
42:40
I don't really understand that I'll read a commentary. It's like, Oh, and then I read
42:43
three other commentaries and they all tend to agree, or at least in the same same type
42:47
of way. Well, we only got like a minute left here. So I guess I do have one last question
42:51
and it's what's your enneagram number? I've been told it's an eight, but you told me that
42:58
that was a Damon speaking. So yeah, so don't listen to those people. And if they're anywhere
43:03
near you, you cast them out of your presence, take them, you know, send them to shield.
43:07
Okay, get them out of here. No problem. All right, Joby, we'll see you next month. All
43:11
right, buddy. Appreciate you. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode. Where
43:15
ever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five star review.
43:19
If you want to come speak live at your event or on your podcast to shoot me an email to
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info@undonton.life. That's I N F O at undonton.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook
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and check out our website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content
43:32
like this coming your way. Just go to www.undonton.life. And also we want to thank the band Holy Name for
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43:44
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43:48
I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual,
43:54
mental and physical resilience. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.