Let's be honest, most men drift. We wake up, we scroll, we work, and then we just rinse and repeat. And we know we're softer than we should be. That's why I built the 31-day resilience reset. This is not a devotional. It is a field manual for men ready to stop drifting and start fighting back. So, for 31 days, you'll train your spirit, mind, and body with scripture, prayer, and daily challenges that forge real resilience. Go to www.undaunted.life/31. life/31day to download this resource for free. That's undaunted.life/31day. Start your reset today. This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it. Joby Martin, I feel like I've turned over a new leaf in life in a lot of different ways. you know, with this baby arm attached to my body, I've decided I'm anti violence. I'm anti-ex exercise. Uh, you know, you just have some different things you're going through in life. And now I have a more aerodynamic face. So, uh, trying out the mustache. But I'm curious, what did you say right before I hit record? Do you remember what you said? >> Uh, I said >> that it would look better >> with a cowboy hat. >> Well, interestingly enough, I've got my new cowboy hat right here. So now we got the full look going on. So what what you think? What you think, boy? >> It looks really good. Really good. Especially in Oklahoma. That's good. That's the look. That's the look. >> Shout out to Kyle Lucas. He's the only Canadian that I can uh call a friend. Uh even though shout out to our fans up in Canada. We love you guys. And shout out to the best hat store down in Fort Worth, Texas, where I got this uh shaped and taken care of. So thank you to Jesse out there who shaped that for me. I mean, just like you, I ain't no cowboy. I don't know, Cal, but dad gum it, I can pull it off with this Bron Rider mustache and this uh felt cap. You know what I mean? >> So that's where I get all my hats at the best hat store in Fort Worth. >> Man, they are the best. Like, so I was there. So this, you know, we're recording this in the past. So we're kind of in the past and in the future at the same time. And so this was whenever a lot of the World Cup matches were taking place in Dallas. And so they were full up. So they had uh gals in there from Brazil and Argentina. They're all, you know, boopping in there to get themselves a cowboy hat. And then they saw the cost of them. And then they were just, you know, the Cowboys, they were like, "Hey, this is like a this is like a real cowboy store. This isn't, you know, like a BE cowboy hat or anything like that." And so, hey, but Kyle Lucas was like, "Hey buddy, you know, you've got your straw hat. You're ready for summertime, but you know, hey, if you ever got to get formal, we got to make sure that you've got a felt hat." So, had to make it happen. >> Yeah, I have four from there. And I've got I think two more colors and I'm good to go. >> Two more. Is that it? Is that actually it? If you get two more? >> No, but they'll be the next two. I'm into it, man. >> That's what I thought. Hey, look at you. But, uh, I mean, I like my hat, but we got yours as well. You're wear You're decked out in Undaunted Life this morning. Look at you. >> This is the new shirt, man, with the lion on the back. >> Yeah, check that out, guys. So, uh, store or shop.unda.life, guys. We got the shop that is now fully open, the Shopify shop. So, we did that as a hoodie, I think last year, year before, something like that. Everybody loved it, so we decided to turn it into a t-shirt. And guys, look, if you don't buy uh anything from the store, we'll just shut it down. Then you'll all be mad again. And so, uh, make sure you go there and check it all out. But, let's get into the Ask a Pastor stuff. So, I want to start with this one. I've been asked about this a billion times, and so you had to have been asked about it about two billion times, and I've had everyone send me the video, but back in June, again, you guys are listening to this, I think, in August or something like that, but back in June, there was a video released of a pastor in Louisiana getting into a street fight with a guy. And so, you see like this security film or something like that. He sees his pastor walking across this road and then you know this guy's like got his phone out and he's like, you know, trying to film the the pastor or whatever. Then all of a sudden the pastor, he just takes him down, starts beating on him. Okay, so not the best ground and pound I've ever seen in my entire life, but he gave uh this guy what for and it was it was pretty rough. But a lot of people in the DMs and the emails are sending this to me and they're like, "What do you think about this? Like should this pastor be removed from his post?" Like showing violence again. These are the same people that think when Jesus said, "If someone hit you on one cheek, turn them the other cheek." They think that that Jesus was talking about physical altercations, which contextually speaking, that's not what Jesus was talking about at all. He's talking about verbal slights. But just from your perspective, uh you know, obviously being a pastor that's, you know, done jiu-jitsu and back in, you know, your old more depraved days, you you had a street fight here or there. Just what are your thoughts around that? Because a lot of people were shocked. And just to give a little bit more background, this man was screaming at this pastor and saying that when he left town that he was going to rape and kill his family, right? So this man was directly threatening his wife and threatening his children with rape and murder. Okay, it doesn't get much worse than that. But then a lot of people say, "But Kyle, he wasn't attempting to do that. Like there was no there there. He was just making threats like basically like keyboard warrior stuff but in real life." And so a lot of people are like, "Hey, this pastor went out over his skis." Now, thankfully, his congregation has backed him up. And you know, I don't know where it's at in terms of legal process. I'm sure there's going to be some uh civil suits, if not uh some some legal stuff going on in this guy's life, criminal stuff. So, what are your thoughts on that situation? >> Well, you know, [clears throat] uh the first thing that comes to mind is really, you know, the book of James that we should be, uh quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry. So there's a lot of details that I would want to know that I don't know that we can know. I also don't love the way the media is portraying this thing because it wants to tell a story. It's not just sharing what actually happened. You know what I mean? >> So the fact that this guy had threatened his family multiple times. Um there is at least from what I've understood at least one time where there was a formal complaint with the police in that area and I don't think anything happened. Um, it, you know, I would have to get into the intent of the pastor's heart when he crosses the street to go to the guy, but all the news stations that are showing it, they clip it right before the fight happens. The guy that threw the first punch was the kid that got it handed to him. That is what happened, dude. And so I I still wish we could find some sort of news outlet that would just do the who what when where >> and leave the why to us. You know what I mean? And so, you know, on the one hand, dude, I get it, dude. If you threaten my family and um yeah, I'd stomp a mud hole in you cuz that that is a threat. I mean, he said when you leave, I'm going to like rape your kids and murder your grandkids or something like that. And so, um you know, does it look like he he had the thing under control and he kept going? Yeah, it does look like that. But especially if you've never been in a fight. >> Um, and but I mean the kid threw the first punch and the kid not he's not a kid, he's 20 years old. I mean I got a 20-year-old. I wouldn't want to fight him. This is a grown man. >> We put we put guns in the hands of 18 years old and have them go fight in the most horrendous places in the world. So this is a grown man with another grown man. Um, >> in retrospect, did this pastor do everything perfect? No. I mean, you know, maybe call the police in that moment right there. And if the guy tries to run, go track him down or something like that. I guess that would have been the ideal of ideals. But, you know, in the Song of Solomon, when the Shulimite woman says that she delights to sit in the shade of the apple tree of her husband, she's talking about protection. And a part of what I'm just want to talk in general, maybe not about that specific episode because again, I bet we could pick it apart and find a lot of things we'd agree with and some things that went too far. No problem. >> But in general, we are supposed to pro provide and protect the God the people God has put under our stewardship. And so if you threaten me, I well, honestly, if you threaten me, I'm going to protect myself because I'm protecting the pres the position more than anything else cuz I don't want my family to be defensive, defenseless. You threaten to rape my wife and kill my kids and then if I have to, I'm going to do what I have to do. Now, luckily, I, you know, I'm good friends with the policeman. I would call the sheriff of St. John's or I or or the sheriff of JSO and we would handle that immediately. Well, again, there's assault and battery. So, people kind of like mix these terms up, but those are those are legal terms. And so, and you know, law enforcement terms and so battery is where they actually go hands-on, but assault is where you have a threat. And I one of the guys that I train with, I'll leave his name out because of the example. I I remember asking him a couple years ago, cuz this is the most dangerous human being that I know, right? So, uh he can basically put you out however he wants. He can head kick you into oblivion. He can knock you out. He can take you down and strangle you in front of your friends. He can do whatever he wants. And I was asking him, I'm like, you know, hey, if your wife was in a bar and you know, let's just say she got a little mouthy or something like that, which I don't think she has that in her, but let's say she got a little mouthy. And let's say a guy got a little mouthy back to her, right? And I'm like, what would you have done? He's like, yeah, I I would pay my tab and get out of there. And then I asked him, I'm like, cuz most of these black belt level guys, they're they're like, "Hey, let's get away. Let's get away. I I know the ramifications of violence. Let's get out of here." But then I was like, "But what if he got like into y'all's wife's bubble? What if he what if he put a hand on your wife?" He's like, "That's just different." Because it's same thing I remember Chel Sonnen talking about. It's like, "If you get in my bubble of safety and I let you throw the first punch, I'm a fool." Right? Because once you get within arms distance of me, you can do any number of things to me. And if I'm sitting there like, "Oh, I'm just going to be a pacifist. I'm just going to try to keep this situation calm." You could be the guy waking up on the floor and wondering what happened. And so, again, it's it didn't seem like this pastor was going out looking for a fight necessarily. I mean, he was going over there with with some intent, right, to confront. >> Before that, he was cleaning the bus, getting ready for a church event. >> That's right. >> When the guy began to say, "I'm going to rape your kids." And all that stuff, rape your wife and murder your children. >> Yeah. Guys, that I mean, listen, man. Hopefully, we don't ever have get in fights anymore, but if we do, dude, if you think you're getting mauy and you're talking to a guy that's calm and a guy that just simply goes, "Hey, you don't want to do this." That is trying to avoid it. You don't want to fight that dude. That guy knows what he's doing. >> But like your dude said, "Okay, so your guy, if I fought him nine, whatever, 99 out of 100 times, he'd kill me, right? But I could knock that dude out. >> I mean, it happens in the UFC." >> Sucker punch. You always talk about the sucker punch. The one who's the sucker doesn't know the punch line. >> And he's going to wait. >> Yeah. >> In order. Now he's got to do two things. He's got to block the first one or dodge the first one. And then he's got to beat me up. You know what I mean? So yeah. Yeah. So, there's no rules either about there's no Bible rules about like you got to stand there and get punched in the face before you defend yourself either. But, you know, so like I said, I have gotten into a physical altercation in Jacksonville while I was on staff at a church and it makes a lot of people uncomfortable. We were at um what was that band back in the early 2000s? They had that one Christian song kind of. Anyway, I can't remember what their name is, but they were playing at a bar or like a venue down here in Jack's Beach. And so Gretcher and I went and it was like half drunk people and half youth groups >> because they they were going to sing that one Christian song and then they had a bunch of other like crossovers on the radio, you know, I can't remember who they are. And so we're kind of upstairs minding our own business until the one song came on that we know. And then we were trying to go listen to it. We're heading down the steps of this place and this drunk guy basically like chest bumps Gretchen. I'm at the stairs right above him. This is going to make people very uncomfortable. and he looked at her and said, "Excuse you." and called her the b- word. >> And I grabbed that joker and I was training. I just grabbed him by the neck and squeezed with everything I was made of. And his one eyeball got the size of a horse and he's looking at me and he knows he can't breathe. And I released up just a little bit and said, "Say you're sorry." He said, "I'm sorry." And then I helped him to the bottom of the steps. And then I immediately thought, "Well, I'm going to jail and getting fired." However, even if that's what it took, my primary responsibility is to Jesus and then what Jesus gave me, which is my wife, and I would protect her. And I ain't allowing somebody to shove my wife and call her that name. Now, I didn't run down there and beat him to death. I just got him out of the way. And then the funny thing is the bouncers came and I was like, "That guy's drunk. Needs to go out of here." And they were like, "Yes, sir." And they ran down there, threw that guy out. And I said, "Babe, we're out of here." But but if I find myself in the kind of situation that just ain't it just seems like it has the potential to get weird and I have a very pretty wife and then I'm the key is don't stay in that situation. Just be like let's go. >> Yeah. Shout out to the very pretty Gretchen who is part of the 5enter shout out. I need to get y'all some patches. But I mean it's always good to have a bit of a tempered response. I remember Cowboy Cerrone. This was when he was like fighting in the UFC like fighting like five six times a year. He was insane. So, uh, this guy like cut him off in traffic. Somebody cut somebody off in traffic, whatever. And so, here they are at the gas station. This guy pulls up and he comes storming out of the truck towards Cowboy and he punches Cowboy in the face. And I remember Cowboy telling the story. He's telling the story like he's ordering dinner. He goes, I just looked at the guy and I said, "That's your free one. You will not get a second." And so, think about it. He has been assaulted and I don't know, batterized. I don't know what you call it. Assault and battery has occurred. he has been attacked and he was well within his rights to send this guy to the shadow realm. And even in that moment, he knew this is an untrained guy. This is a guy that just, you know, he's operating out of something inside of his soul. And he decided to come up and hit me. I ate the shot. You obviously understand the guy's power once you take his best shot. And he realizes this is not a fair fight. But he just warned the guy that won't that will not happen again. And the guy kind of got wideeyed and realized what was happening and then turned turned around and walked off. And so anyway, so to to the guys out there, again, I know there's a lot of situations and I've talked to police officers and I' I've given them scenarios like, "What if someone's doing this? What if someone's doing that?" And almost all these scenarios, there's a way out. There's a way that you can just get your stuff and leave. >> But if something has to happen, you need to square up with your chest out and make sure that you can do that. And the unfortunate part for some of the men that are maybe mentally willing to do that, they're not physically capable of doing that because they don't train. I mean, I talk to guys all the time that are like, "Why do I need to train jiu-jitsu, boxing, any of that kind of stuff? I have a gun." I was like, "Okay, so a guy chest bumps your wife in a bar and calls her the b- word and what? You pull your gun out and shoot him? >> Okay, well now you're definitely going to jail, if not to prison for the rest of your life." Like, what are we talking about? >> I think the ideal or all these videos that I've seen, I'm sure your algorithm pumps them your way, too. Or like a jiu-jitsu black belt is in a restaurant or a bar or something. >> That's right. >> And he's just mounted a guy controlling his hands. >> Yep. >> Just holding him until the cops come. >> Yeah. Matt Sarah did that in Vegas. He's literally on the guy. He's going, "Calm down now. Calm down. Calm down." And he's he pulls his shirt over his head. And then he's like looking at the security guards like, "Do y'all understand what's happening here?" Like this guy's going to get up and he's going to be like a Wolverine. So to make sure you're ready. >> Yeah. That's that would be the ideal cuz that that is actual power under constraint right there. And you're using just enough to constrain the guy, you know. So I don't know. We'll see. The other thing that you've got to be willing to do is that if you have to cross a line and you do get in legal trouble, you've just got to be willing to say, "I'm willing to pay that price." >> Right? >> Like I listen when when uh when JP was in school and Reagan was in school with him and I would just so from the time we brought Reagan home from the hospital, I said, "Brother, your number one job is to protect Reagan." So his whole grown-up life, you could just say, if you said it to him today, number one job, he'll say, "Protect Reagan." So when they got to the same school, I was like, "Listen, I'm being very serious about this. You protect her." And if it has to get to the point where you have to deal with it physically, you will get in trouble at the school. They will kick you out of school. And I'm not going to def That's their rules, bro. They don't have like, you know, they they don't actually dive into it to see whose fault or whatever. If you get a fight, you're out. And no problem. If you did it justifiably, righteously, then you'll get kicked out of school and me and you will go on a field trip together, bro. Like, I will reward you, but I'm not going to protect you from the consequences that that school has. So, you got to kind of think through it legally, too. This guy may get in. I mean, we'll see. It was Louisiana. He'll probably be okay out in the country of Louisiana. He'll probably be all right. >> Probably be all right. All right. Uh, we spent half our time just on that one, but that was good stuff. So, we need to get into the rest of it from here. So, this is a question from the Watchmen. So, these are the guys that have gone through my Dominion program. They're part of the alumni program cuz this has been a hotly uh debated topic here in our little private messaging thing or all that. And I already know your answer, so I'm kind of like going to shoot myself in the foot a little bit here, but which is the better movie, Gladiator or Braveheart? And why is the [clears throat] correct answer Gladiator? Uh if you say it's Gladiator, it's because it was uh it was just drafting off of the momentum that Braveheart created. Cuz Braveheart created the whole It didn't create anything. And here's the thing. I love Braveheart. It's a top 10 movie for me. But people are making me hate it cuz they're saying it's better than Gladiator, which scientifically speaking is just impossible. >> Yeah. you fall into this false dichotomy, you know, like when you say I I understand what you mean when you rail on to people that say we want to be known for what we're for and what we're against. You can be for things and against things. And just cuz you like one kind of ice cream doesn't mean you hate all the other kinds of ice cream. You can like a bunch of the ice creams and still hate some of the ice creams. And so I love Gladiator, but uh I think a lot of it has to do, you know, it's all subjective to your own whims. And it was probably the first time I ever saw it. And I, you know, that kind of epic and and and the fact too that he was driven for justice by what they did to his wife early >> and child. >> Yep. >> Yeah, dude. I mean, that was just And then he was just ruthless. I mean, that was part of it. So, I'm I'm still a Braveheart guy. >> Hey guys, real quick. I know a lot of you train for very specific things. So maybe you've got a mud race coming up, a mountain hunt, a 5K, or maybe you just want to keep up with your kids, or you just don't want to let the old man in. But for a lot of you guys, whether you're working out at the globo gym, or even your garage gym, you get there and you just don't know exactly what to do. 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That is six weeks free on the best-in-class physical and mental training app in the world. So, stop wasting time. It's time to get real fitness results. Let my friends at Mountain Tough guide the way. Again, go to mtntuff, that's mountain.com, promo code Kyle. I guess we can accept that. But can we both agree, speaking of ice cream, that mint chocolate chip should just not be legal to consume? Like, what is that? Like, it it's the absolute worst. Mint flavor is for gum and toothpaste. Why are people consuming it in ice cream shop? Can we at least agree on that? >> I have a pastor friend that will remain nameless and he said one of his early dates like back when he was in high school and college, he would take a girl to like Bask and Robins and if she got mint chocolate chip, he just took her immediately home cuz she didn't make any decisions. >> Yeah, obviously. Uh can you go and name the pastor though so we can have it on the record? >> No sir. >> Okay, we'll ask about it after you know him. Okay, >> so you can ask all my buddies and it's one of them. >> Yeah, I uh I have a guess so I'll give you my guess offline. So, all right, let's get to this next question here. This is from null. This is a this is a large topic, but I think you can just give us a quick fly over. What is your position on esquetology? That's the study of of end times. U you know, is your position, you know, pre-trip, post-trip. I mean, everything's kind of circling the drain of esquetology right now because Persia's going nuts. That's Iran. And you know, we're all we're always in the end times, but now it seems like we're super duper in the end times. So, give us your 30,000 foot flyover of esquetology. All right. So my copout answer used to be that the Bible talks more about readiness than anything else. And I point which is very true. >> It is. Yeah. Yes. This part in a copout. But my the reason I would answer directly, >> I would always uh I'd go to Matthew chapter 24, you know, where he he rolls out very specifically about the wars and rumors of wars and earthquakes and the abomination of desolation. And then the way I read that, the disciples look confused. So he tells three parables. the parable of the virgin, which means get saved. >> Like when once the party starts, there's no more invitations. So if you miss it, you're screwed. Then it's don't waste your life. That's the parable of the talents. Leverage every everything you have for the kingdom of God. And then it's the parable of the sheep and goats. That if your heart is changed for God, then you ought to love who he loves. And whatever you do for the least of these, you do unto me. And then but I I have felt convicted this last year to be more informed on all the positions. And so I am in that process right now. There is this incredible YouTube conversation called a night of esquetology. It's got Sam Storms, John Piper. >> Yeah. Storms is Oklahoma City guy. >> Yeah. I mean, so he's got four Doug Wilson >> and one and a professor from uh Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. So these are godly men. They all had the same view of the scriptures. And one's a a premillennialist, one's a postmillennialist, one's an amillennialist. And they and they argue it. And after each one talks, I'm like, "Yeah, what that guy thinks. [laughter] Yeah, what that guy thinks." And so I am currently in the process [clears throat] of studying the back half of Daniel, Revelations versus uh First, Second Thessalonians. Um because I want to be able to give an answer for where I land, but I can't I can't say my feet land squarely. I mean, I am convinced that Jesus is coming back, we don't know the day or hour, but we do know the seasons. And I will say anytime Israel is at war, you should pay very close attention to that. And I also think this is not a copout either. This is just in my study. One of the things the scripture says is that that the way that Jesus was prophesied about was mysterious in its age so as to prevent the enemy from thwarting the plans of God. You know that kind of thing, >> right? So if that's how the prophecies of his first coming happen, I think there's some legitimacy in saying I don't know that any of us that all of us will ever land in the same spot because there seems to be some mystery to it. I do know this that so it kind of it kind of depends on what what part of the Bible I'm in at that point. At some point sometimes premill uh preerttrib rapture makes a ton of sense and then sometimes like I don't think that word means that and rapture is not even in the Bible and there's all this sort of stuff. So, I I'm in the process like hopefully a lot of people um just studying the word for what it says as opposed to me just going to some of my favorite preachers because again, dude, Sam Storms and John Piper, both gospel- centered guys, both believe in the inspired inherent word of God and they come they come down in two different positions. um as does Doug Wilson. You know, he's he thinks all kind of stuff, but he's an amillennialist that that that the millennium is happening right now in heaven. And that was all allegorical kind of language. So, as long as you know that Jesus is coming back and we need to be ready and we need to tell as many people about it before he returns, just make sure you major on the majors. >> Right? That was my point because I'm all for studying esquetology and being very interested in that. And of course my pastor Mark Hitchcock has done a lot of stuff on end times and esquetology and you know Persia Gog all the stuff right but it's like okay you got a lot of people that are concerned with esquetology but they don't seem as concerned about soti sotiology which is basically how one is saved and then maybe you get obsessed with one of those two and then you forget about evangelism altogether and I'm like okay so wherever you land you know on esquetology you know sotiology is a little bit more clear but there's plenty of debates there as well that you know I've been a part of but I've also watched but then it's just like but are telling anyone about it because regardless of of how we get there, whatever the cornerstone doctrine is, which is that we're all the brave sinners that need a savior, we need some sort of intercessory uh substitutionary atonement for ourselves and all those types of things. It's like, let's just share that. Hey, have when have when's the last time you open your mouth to share with someone else the faith that you have, right? And you got to stand ready to make an apologia for why you believe what you believe and all the things. And I'm cool with I think people are really obsessed with making sure they've got a flag planted firmly in a camp so that they can have a team to root for, right? Because when you watch a game and you care about the team winning or losing, you're just more interested in it. And so it's like maybe maybe be team evangelism before we're team preerttrib or team amillennial or whatever. Is that fair? Totally. So I got a good story for you. Um, in back in the like ' 80s, uh, RC Sproul and Billy Graham would have these arguments about the about salvation, right? Maybe you've heard this story. And somebody comes up to RC Sproul, who was the most Calvinistic guy. He didn't think five points Calvinism was enough. He had like seven like he is a sovereignty of God over all things, including our salvation. And Billy Graham leaned way more into, you know, John 3:16 and and choose for yourself this day whom you're going to serve and I have decided to follow Jesus. Okay. And somebody asked RC Sproul at one of his little teaching things, "Will you see Billy Graham in heaven?" And he goes, "Nope." And he just let it sit the way a good preacher will. And then he says, "Because when I get close, when I get to heaven, Dr. Billy Graham will be so close to the throne of God and I will be so far away that the chances of me fighting through the crowd to get to him are pretty much zero. If we have that heart, there are things to divide over. The things that other really good strong bibleelving Christians can't agree on are not the things to divide over. This the things to divide over are not things like mode of baptism or even or saludas. the things that divide over is do you believe that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God? Do you believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God? You know, these kinds of things. If somebody's like, "Well, that's not what I believe in." But then we're not talking about the same Jesus. >> Yeah. That's one of my favorite stories that I've ever heard um pretending to them because, you know, RC Sproul is like the main guy for the super hyper reformed five-point Calvinist, the people that love beating you over the head, you know, while they're smoking a stogy and stroking their uh their mustaches and all that, drinking an IPA. But like at the same time, hearing what he said about Billy Graham was just so tremendous because what was Billy Graham's entire uh you know worth it was evangelism. Like the gift of evangelism and him is maybe the strongest it's ever been in terms of Christendom. There's at least an argument for that. All right. Next question is from me. So speaking of differences and how people do ministry and how they view things. So you've seen examples of churches like so right now uh my church Faith Bible Church in Edmond is going to be planting another church on the other side of town that will be branded Faith Bible, but it'll have its own pastor, its own lead elders, but it'll be in the same kind of uh expository preaching style that Mark Hitchcock has been doing at my church for 30 plus years. And then even our good buddy Matt Chandler, uh, back in the day, uh, he had all these different campuses around the DFW area. And then, uh, he felt like God was telling them, "We need to roll off these these campuses, right, to be their own autonomous churches with their own pastors, their own elders, their own worship teams, their own media teams, and all that because they have a slightly different context in, you know, I don't know, Denton versus Flower Mound or whatever the thing was." And so my question for you is, Church of 1122 obviously is not doing that right now. You have multiple campuses. You're launching more campuses all the time and it's going to be video preaching. They've got, you know, a campus pastor, but it's y'all, it's you as the main pastor, main shepherd, and it's your elders as the main elders. There's not elders for those different areas. And like, again, I'm not really familiar with all the differences down there, but there's probably some differences doing ministry in, you know, Orlando versus PLA or something like that. I I don't really know. And so what is the what is the I guess wisdom or the decisions that have been made in terms of doing that because the the larger things get and you've heard these arguments a billion times most from mostly from people that are not you know uh people that are wanting good things for the kingdom. These are people that are not uh they're not fair uh in how they're evaluating things. But they're like look how can you have a church how can you be the lead shepherd if you can't name you know everyone that's in your flock. >> Yeah. Um [clears throat] I I celebrate all the kind of different modes that are trying to just or means that are trying to reach the same end of making disciples. So whether that's a home church or a series of home churches or that's like you know our church which is a multi- venue you know satellite model um the the whole the the the imperative in the great commission is to make disciples. And so I'm gonna my lead foot with your church is just going to be that of trust that the elders at that church led by God are making the best decisions in y'all's area to make disciples the way they want to do it. Now we don't only do uh video venues. We've also planted churches all over the place. Local autonomous churches with their only pastors with their own names. I think like what y'all are about to do is kind of a franchise model. And I think there's a lot of value to that that you're probably going to use the same system of government, the same core values, the same modes of ministry. Dude, praise God for that. Cuz I don't want to get I'm not here. I'm just team Jesus, man. I'm just team whether it's a house church or you build one big huge building and invite everybody to come to it as the church gathers. Whatever, dude. Whatever the Lord leads your church to do. This is why Paul established local elders at the place at each place. And so this is why we have local staff at each campus and they're a little bit different, but we do the same music, the same message, the same mission. We do all of that sort of stuff the same. So anybody that's trying to pit different models against one another, they're [clears throat] starting off on the wrong foot. Especially as long as these are Bible teaching, Jesusloving, great commission kind of churches, the how you do church in Iran is going to be very different than how we do it in Jacksonville. And so I just trust the pastors and the leaders that God has placed over whatever the local church is to make whatever the best decisions for that local congregation, for that local body. And so I'm I'm just not one to throw shade at different styles of doing church. And if you don't like the way we do it, no problem. And one of the great things about being a believer in America is I think there's like 450,000 different churches in America. Cool. Go to a different one. No problem. But we have the same goal that your pastor has and that is just to make disciples. They make disciples and make disciples. >> Very on the on the you know how can you pastor a church when everybody doesn't know their name? Well, Paul doesn't know the names of all the people that he's writing to. I mean once your church gets to what I think the most sociologists will say that the most number of relationships that even the highest capacity person can have is about 125. So, what do you do when you get to 126? Your church becomes illegitimate or you're not a real pastor or you tell that person they can't come or you plant other churches, you know? So, I mean, the first church, if you hate the mega church, you'd hated the first one. First meeting they go to 3,000. Then the second meeting they go to 5,000. That's a big old church. And so, what they did is they created systems by which they can make disciples. They gathered together in the temple courts like we do on the weekends. They met house to house like we do in disciple groups. And so the key question I think is not do I know every name but anybody that won't speak connected are they known? And so we raise up a whole bunch of undersheperds because the one thing I would push back on um part of the reason we do what we do is that I am not the end all beall to people's relationship with Jesus here in our model that we have that the actual work is to be done by the saints that that the people that have the official titles like pastors elders that kind of thing like in Ephesians it says is to equip the saints for the work of the ministry. So we are trying to decentralize the work of the ministry and make it very very local. And at at 11:22, bro, if you want to get plugged in and you want to be known and you want to have accountability and find Matt carriers and all of that, we try to make that as simple as possible that you can get involved at a local level in a disciple group and then a campus close to your house. >> All right. Very good. How are we doing timewise? You got a heart out or uh because we kind of went long on the first one. >> I got a minute. Let's keep going. >> All right. So this one is from Nick. So Nick is a monthly donor, guys, if you want your question added to the bank for Ask a Pastor. And guys, there's a lot of questions in there, so don't get mad if yours isn't answered in the first couple of months. But shout out to Nick. Thank you so much for being a monthly donor. undaunted.life/donate. Quick question for Joby. Our church brought in a Jewish rabbi to teach a Sunday school class to the whole church on a particular psalm. My Sunday school class opted out of it as we didn't think it was right. I'm curious if my anger is righteous. Should a church bring in a non-Christian to teach scripture from the Old Testament? A Jewish rabbi is not going to see Jesus in the Old Testament? So, I'm of course on the side of no. Um, I would not bring in a non-believer to teach some sort of disciplem aspect of the church. Now, if I wanted to invite some, you know, Jewish archaeologist and ask them a bunch of archaeological questions and use that person's knowledge as a means to disciplem, I would be okay with that. But I would have to like I would have to very personally oversee this. But I would not bring in a non-believer to believers for a disciplehip purpose. Because if you teach the psalm apart from Jesus, then what are you teaching? Because on the road to Emmas, the way Jesus proved himself with the disciples. This is mind-blowing, by the way. Like he shows up, two guys on the road to Emmas. He's like, why you so sad? You hadn't heard the one that we thought was the Messiah died in Jerusalem today. And Jesus did not go, "Tada, here I am." The Bible says that he started in the Old Testament with the law and the Psalms and the prophets and show them how everything pointed to him. So how could you teach the Psalms if you don't understand that it points to Jesus? That's the whole point. And so I would want to get in there and ask that pastor like, "So please explain to me what we're doing here." If the whole point of the entire Old Testament is to point to Jesus and you're bringing somebody in to teach some the whole like and I'm not saying what the rabbi says isn't untrue. He might say everything he says about the psalm might be true. It would just won't be the whole truth of how it points to Jesus. And so from an official church Sunday school is about making disciples, then I would have a big red flag there, too. But I've seen a lot of people that'll do these things where they'll have a night where they bring in in a Christian church, they'll bring in a Muslim imam and then they'll bring in a Jewish rabbi and they'll do this big service and they try to just basically big tent the entire thing and say, "Oh, you know, it's all the same God." But this gets right into that stuff I talked about with the Lifeway Legion Ministry of theology where self-described evangelicals that say the Bible is the highest authority in their life and they should share their faith that they have in Christ with everybody else. About 50% of self-described evangelicals think that God accepts the worship of all religions, including Judaism and Islam. And it's like, whoa, whoa, hold up, wait a minute. And then you get into the the, you know, the Islamic dilemma, the Muslim dilemma, which is, you know, the Quran upholds the truth of the biblical scriptures that we see in the Christian Bible. But if it upholds those scriptures, then Islam is false. And if it denies those scriptures, then also Islam is false. And so it's like, hey, we we can't just bigtent this. We can bigt it from an evangelistic perspective, which is like, yeah, you're a Muslim family and you want to come to our church. Yeah, come on in. But we're going to talk about Jesus. We're not going to like kind of tutt it and say, "Oh, yeah. We kind of believe like you did. He just swooned on the cross and then died somewhere in India and his in his old age." Like that's nonsense. Yeah. And there's a difference, [clears throat] too. Like I've been invited to these ecumenical prayer breakfast things where I get invited to some thing in the city of Jacksonville and as long as they don't put any handcuffs on me about what I can say, I go there with the point of sharing Jesus with people that don't know Jesus. That's a mission trip. But I am not going to invite unless I mean I might invite somebody here as like a bait and switch to trick them so I can like share the gospel with them and call it an event. But there is no way in the world I'm trying to put my stamp of approval on people that deny who Christ is. You cannot deny Christ. Listen, you can't divorce God the Son from God the Father. So if you don't think Jesus is God the Son, you do not know God the Father. We do not worship the same God. We do not worship the same God. We um you know Islam is a false religion inspired by demons. Period. There are many nice Muslims. Islam is a false religion and Jesus makes it abundantly clear in John 14:6. He is the way, the truth, the life and no one comes to the father except through him. Many many many many mainline denominations are basically unitarian in what they think is salvation including I think I'll misquote the year because I can't remember it exactly but the the teaching of the Catholic Church was that like in 1300 1500 somewhere a long time ago that God could uniquely save and would uniquely save the Hindu and the Muslim as long as they were good people and you know they were just worshiping what they know. That is antithetical. That is not what the gospel teaches. Period. And so, and then a bunch of mainline denominations, man, like uh liberal Presbyterians, liberal Baptists, the United Methodist denomination, they have moved away from the clear teaching of scripture. And so, I think I think that is very very dangerous to try to do the big Now, we do partner with people that don't believe what we believe in regards to some other end like saving babies in Jacksonville. Like, you know, we partner with with churches that I there's no way in the world I would let their staff preach here because I because they don't believe the Bible, but they want to help save babies. We'll we'll gladly partner in all of those areas. But yeah, man, you better I mean, Paul tells Timothy, you better guard your doctrine and guard your life. And a part of what guard your doctrine means is that if you're the pastor, then you are responsible before the Lord for everything that gets taught at your church. And so I guard it like I mean like a shepherd looking out for wolves in sheep's clothing around here. And that means yes doctrine is important. Doctrine becomes one of those you know pnicity words for people who were like oh it's too much doctrine here. It's like well you have to have doctrine or you're not going to have right beliefs about God. Let's go to this next question here. This is from Sterpy. He's one of our watchmen. So one of our Dominion alumni that's continuing on with watchmen. When we are reading the Bible to discover truth that is in scripture but we are struggling to find any application. What should we do? Do we stay in the passage we are reading and move on with our day? Should we meditate on the scripture and be praying that God shows himself through his word in some way we did not recognize at first? Should we just skip around the Bible until we find the truth we need or want? So, this ultimately Joby is an application question whenever we're doing Bible study. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh I mean, you know, Isaiah says that the word of God is like the rain is always going to accomplish what it intended. It will never go out in vain. So just because you don't see it in the moment doesn't mean that the spirit of God is not going to use that in your life. I would I would discourage you from just doing the old poke and pray method where you just kind of hop around and just find something. And then I would just trust what Jesus said. He said he's going to send the pariclete, the Holy Spirit to help you, to guide you, to remind you of all the things I have taught you. And so, I mean, dude, I've been studying the Bible professionally for 34 years or something. And and there's still things I I'll read the same passage that I've read a million times, and then the Lord illuminates something that I hadn't seen for the application in my life before. And so, I would highly encourage you, like you guys do on the forging table, pick a book of the Bible and work through that book of the Bible. Context is everything. And so one of the worst things you can do, I mean, you want to become a heretic, leave all the context out and just go grab some verses. That's very dangerous thing. And then one of the things I would encourage you to do is get you out of the middle of your Bible reading. First and foremost, I would say, what does this say about the Lord? you know, and sometimes application, um, this is what like Socrates would say, and he wasn't even a believer, but sometimes the application might be a mind thing, sometimes it might be a heart thing, and then sometimes it might be a hand thing. So, sometimes just thinking about God differently is the application, sometimes feeling differently about God is the application. And then sometimes doing something differently is the application. And then it's totally okay to read through a scripture and you go, I have no idea what that's about. I would highly encourage you to just keep going until you do there. There is something in it for you. I promise. So, I would keep going until the spirit of God makes that clear to you. When I even made this point in teaching Sunday school the other day, so let's say you're watching a movie. Let's just pick one randomly. Uh Gladiator. And so, you're you're used to some of the things that you've seen before, right? So when he's uh you know finding his wife and child that have been murdered you know whenever he faces comedus in the arena takes off his helmet and does the greatest speech in the history of cinema you know how it ends everything else your brain's already tuned up for that because you've seen it you've experienced it before and so it's all the little ancillary details around it you're like whoa that's an interesting thing that sets this thing up in a in a deeper way the same thing happens with scripture so I know we got to get you out of here so we're going to leave you with a scenario I'm going to keep the scenario thing going okay so you ready Yeah, you wake up and you're surgically connected to a famous unconscious violinist. Okay. Doctors tell you that he'll die if you disconnect. But if you stay connected for 9 months, he'll recover and then you can separate. Do you have an obligation to remain connected to keep him alive even if it's against your own will? >> Uh the Bible says love your neighbor. So, I can't imagine somebody more to your neighbor than somebody that is connected to me for life. So, I would I would do whatever it takes for the sake of loving my neighbor to keep this person alive. And guys, that scenario is not just one that I pulled out of my rear end. That is one that I've seen used very well in a pro-life context because when people start talking about the baby, oh, it's not a baby, it's fetus, it's this, that, and the other thing. You'll see very, very good apologists for the pro-life cause, for the moral cause of God, that will just basically throw this out there. And people will be like, "Oh, yeah, because you're you're tapping into the artist side of their brain because they're probably higher in trade openness." So, this is a world famous violinist. He is giving art to the world through his musical instrument of choice. And it's like, well, yeah, of course, you would need to stay connected. And then it's like, okay, well, what about the mother and her baby, right? So, she may not want to for a myriad of reasons, most of which are selfish, not want to stay connected to this baby to sustain its life. However, the moral thing to do is to sustain its life. So, you're basically doing a little mental jiu-jitsu on people to get them to see the baby as what it is, which is a living human being. >> Amen. Can I give you one more that um it kind of goes the other way using [clears throat] the pro-choice argument against folks? I heard Frank Turk talking about this because somebody was confronting him with how in the world can you believe in a God that just decides who lives and who dies in the Old Testament? And Turk goes, "Let me ask you this. Are you pro-choice or pro-life?" And the lady goes, "Well, obviously I'm pro-choice." And then he says to her, "Well, then how come when you act like God and who lives and who dies, you think that's a moral right, but when God acts like God and decides who lives and who dies, you think that's evil?" It's a pretty good question. >> It is a pretty good question. Well, Joby, that's all for me. Anything else you want to get off your chest? >> No, boy. Just keep growing that mustache. The hat. The hat makes it. I'm telling you, it may be questionable without, but and here's the thing. Just wear it all the time. Like around here, I wear my cowboy hats all the time. Then everybody just gets used to you in a cowboy hat and they don't think, wonder what why has it got on a cowboy hat? >> Hey, and and just recently, I bought my grandpa's 1979 Ford truck and like there's going to be rules about that truck. There's not going to be any podcasting or anything going on. The only uh music that can be in that truck is uh country music. And I'm either going to be dressed up, gussied up for church, or I'm wearing a cowboy hat. So, I think that's a pretty good standard for the new truck. You think? >> I like it. It's your truck. You get to set the standards. >> Amen. Joby, we'll talk next month. >> Peace. >> Thank you everyone for listening to this episode. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate, and leave us a positive five-star review. If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an email to info@undant.life. Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook. can check out our website for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming. www.undaunted.life. The music on this podcast is the song Conqueror by the Christian metal band Void Awaken. Be sure to stream their music on Spotify, Apple Music, and wherever else you get your music. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness. Keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Keep seeking the Lion of Judah. Now [music] heat.