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Ask a Pastor with JOBY MARTIN | April 2025 (Ep. 738)

April 3, 2025 38m 46s Full transcript available
Ask a Pastor with JOBY MARTIN | April 2025 (Ep. 738)
0:00 / 38m 46s
In this episode, Kyle Thompson and Joby Martin tackle tough questions about faith, sin, and the spiritual realm. They discuss the importance of accountability in parenting, the nature of sin, and the reality of spiritual warfare, all while maintaining a direct and masculine approach to the topics at hand.
Transcript
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0:00 This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
0:24 I'm your host Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.
0:27 Joe B. Martin to the astute viewer of Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
0:32 They're going to wonder to themselves, Kyle, why is your watch on your right wrist?
0:37 And it's not because, you know, sometimes when I speak, I'll tell people to switch their
0:40 watch to their other wrist because I have like, hey, I got to tell you something really
0:42 important and you're going to remember it because every time you look to check the time
0:47 this week, you're going to go to the opposite wrist.
0:49 And then when you look over here, it's like, ah, I remember the Kyle said that.
0:51 I don't have a cool enough story for that.
0:52 It's because I got tattoo work.
0:54 I'm in the middle of some more tattoo work on the left side.
0:56 I'm doing my inner forearm here and you can see the stencil because literally, Joe B, the
1:01 moment we're done, I'm hopping in the truck and going back to Dustin Yip and getting some
1:06 more work done.
1:07 So we got a little bit of a, ah, of a, ah, got a lamb there and we're working and it's
1:13 kind of hard to see, but working into a skull, kind of a Golgotha thing.
1:16 We got some crosses coming in and you got some new ink because as I was getting in,
1:21 you sent me a picture of some new ink.
1:23 So let's check that out.
1:24 Let's see that for all the people watching the YouTube.
1:26 So that is a sword because the Bible is the sort of the spirit is kind of, kind of a little
1:32 daily blade.
1:33 Yeah.
1:34 Where have I heard that before?
1:35 Yeah.
1:36 I mean, and then in Greek, uh, second enemy for to preach the word and a part of the reason
1:41 I put it right there, I want to had a gap and it just driving me crazy.
1:44 But also when I grabbed my podium, I can see two things I can see to tell a style on this
1:48 side.
1:49 It is finished.
1:50 Like so when the devil lies to me and he's like, who do you think you are to stand up
1:53 here and preach the word to people?
1:54 He's like, like, shut up, he's already paid the bill.
1:57 And then this, uh, that's just what I, that's what I do, preach the word.
2:00 So yeah, man.
2:01 And I'm going back for more.
2:03 Well, see, you're going back for more.
2:05 But you told me as I was getting going, you're like, Hey, you know, uh, how's your guy do
2:09 his all booking and all that?
2:10 And you know, people are interested.
2:11 They'll be like, Hey, you know, who's your guy, but they never really intend to book.
2:14 But like last night you were like hounding me, you're like, no, I, I need his contact.
2:17 Like, but so are you going to become an Oklahoma to get some work done?
2:20 What's going on here?
2:21 Yeah.
2:22 I think so.
2:23 Because at your place last week, I just, I just kept looking at Jesus on your arm, looking
2:28 back at me.
2:29 It's the quality.
2:30 So good.
2:31 Right, right, right.
2:32 And so, you know, I got a big, I got all this.
2:35 So I think I might do a big black and white piece, like scenery kind of thing like you're
2:40 doing there.
2:41 So again, I need to take you to go gotha to the actual place of the skull, what Christ
2:47 was crucified.
2:48 Maybe all the, not just the biblical history of it, but the like the kind of the archeological
2:54 history of how they found it and all of that.
2:56 It's pretty incredible.
2:57 Well, yes, you do.
2:58 So next Israel trip, make sure you hit me up.
2:59 And then that means we can go to what?
3:01 Razookos.
3:02 And we can get one of the, Hey, tell, yeah, Razook.
3:04 So tell everybody about them.
3:05 Cause they're, you know, by the time you guys are listening to this, he'll be back in Jerusalem
3:08 probably, but that dude's like traveling around the US right now and doing the things.
3:12 But it's the oldest tattoo parlor in the world, but talk about the stamps.
3:17 So it has been, I mean, I might mess up some of the details of this, but it's been the
3:24 longest continuous tattoo parlor in the world.
3:28 Same family from a mouth of, I want to say like 1300s or something like that.
3:32 I think that's right.
3:34 And so they have these little, the way they did tattoos back in the day is they, they
3:38 would build out these little wooden block stamps, put it in ink, put the ink on you.
3:42 And that, that was like the stencil and then they would like pin it in, you know, well,
3:47 they still have those ancient stamps.
3:49 Um, so if you ever watched Chandler preach and he's got that one right here on his forearm
3:55 and that, that was from Razooks.
3:58 And so I got to tell us, you can get regular tattoos there too.
4:01 I got to tell us that.
4:02 And then I also got the Jerusalem cross, which has been in the news a lot lately with Pete
4:07 head says, but that's just the Jerusalem cross.
4:10 Let's just clear this up for all the listeners.
4:12 Um, this is the represent the, the wounds of Christ on the cross, hands, feet, side that
4:18 go to the four corners of the earth.
4:20 So taking the gospel from Jerusalem to the ends of the earth.
4:24 And then I put a passage from Isaiah, uh, he was pierced for our transgressions.
4:30 So I got that at Razooks also there.
4:32 Yeah.
4:33 Yeah.
4:34 I mean, that's the thing.
4:35 If you're going to get it done, you get it done there.
4:37 And like, so I'm thinking about getting the Jerusalem cross on the top of my right hand.
4:41 And so it's like, I mean, I'm going to be bait, I'm going to have the gospel on my arm.
4:44 So I've got the lamb of God's side.
4:46 I'm going to work on the line of Judas side.
4:48 So I'll talk to you more about that and then having that on my hand.
4:50 Cause I couldn't really think of anywhere else to do it because if you put it on your chest,
4:53 well, then there goes your chest piece, you know, maybe I can put a, put thug life in
4:56 Greek across my stomach and then do the Jerusalem cross around my belly button, maybe something
5:00 like that, maybe some tribal around it, you know, maybe no, not not feeling it.
5:05 I mean, whatever you want to do, all of mine, I mean, you know, I've got the cross ground
5:10 thorns over here acts 11, 24.
5:12 He was a good man full of Holy Spirit and faith and a great number of people brought
5:15 to the Lord.
5:16 I got my family in here.
5:17 There's a big G in the middle and JP and RC cause it's like my God, my people, you know,
5:22 an homage to my friend who I led to Christ and anyway, it all for me, it matters a whole
5:29 bunch.
5:30 That three right there is cause JP wanted to get a tattoo and I was like, no, dude, don't
5:33 be dumb.
5:34 You're 18.
5:35 You make terrible decisions.
5:36 He's like, can I get the fourth?
5:37 And I'm like, Oh my God.
5:38 Yeah, I think I'm going to cry.
5:39 And he got a ride on this chest man.
5:41 Yeah.
5:42 Like a boss.
5:43 And then he was like, then we can granddaddy to get junior.
5:44 I was like, I don't think so.
5:46 Yeah, well, maybe not with granddaddy, but, but anyway, yeah, so that's, that's all good
5:50 stuff.
5:51 Obviously I'm going to get you connected again.
5:52 Shout out to Dustin.
5:53 Yep.
5:54 One of the best black and gray guys that I've seen certainly the best that I've seen in
5:57 Oklahoma.
5:58 I'm so glad that he moved here.
5:59 So kind of a somber, a somber way to start, but you know, this is coming out a few weeks
6:03 after we record, but you stopped your service at the very beginning over the week.
6:09 End.
6:10 Okay.
6:11 So guys, if you're not listening to Joby Sermons, what's wrong with you should be listening.
6:13 But I think it was week 10 of your first Timothy series.
6:17 You stopped the very beginning of the service because there had been reports that have come
6:21 out about certainly in February, whenever 70 Christians were beheaded by Muslim fundamentalists
6:26 in Congo, and there's been ongoing murders there with Boko Haram in Nigeria, but then
6:32 in Syria.
6:33 And again, by the time you guys are listening this, so much more information is going to
6:36 be out.
6:37 Like I'm literally sitting here.
6:38 The contact's going all the way completely up the chain of the United States federal
6:42 government and we're still having trouble figuring out what exactly is going on on the
6:45 ground there, but you felt the need to pause your service on a, you know, it was a, you're
6:51 talking about work, you know, you're talking about like two verses and you're talking about
6:54 like, you know, hey, working is unto the Lord essentially, but why did you feel the need
6:58 to like pause and tell everybody because it's not like persecutions on happening all day
7:03 every day, but there was just something unique about what was going on in Syria and what
7:06 we were seeing in that time.
7:07 Well, there definitely seems to be an uptick, you know, I mean, you're talking of hundreds
7:15 of Christians losing their life within a few days because they're Christians.
7:20 Like you said, in Congo and in Syria and just kind of in between services, I mean, people
7:27 won't know this, but I'm on a group chat with a bunch of pastors, you'd know all their names
7:35 and we just are always kind of praying for each other, encouraging one another like hope
7:39 for a service went good praying for your next services, that sort of stuff.
7:43 And then I popped on Instagram for a second and I saw JP Pecluda who's a brand new friend
7:48 of mine saying, Hey, as you gathered today, pray for Christians and, and then I saw you
7:53 reshare that.
7:55 So I checked with you immediately and man, we are just the church.
7:59 I mean, there's just one big Jesus loving body around the world and I'm about to talk
8:05 about how to honor God at work.
8:07 And I, and listen, and it was also daylight savings and it was pouring rain in Jacksonville.
8:13 So I know people already felt like they were martyrs because they actually showed up and
8:16 thought they'd done something.
8:19 And I did just want to kind of reset things and be like, man, we got brothers and sisters
8:21 right now losing their children and losing their heads for the name of Christ.
8:27 And the blood of martyrs is the seed that grows the church.
8:31 And so I just felt like it was the thing that we needed to do, you know, it wasn't program.
8:36 It's not a part of, it's because the spirit of God said stop and pray for brothers and
8:42 sisters around the world right now.
8:43 So that's what we did.
8:44 So, you know, we had tens of thousands of people praying for our brothers and sisters
8:49 in Syria and in Congo.
8:52 Well, that's part of the thing.
8:53 I kind of made a joke to my wife.
8:54 I'm like, I'm really glad we're not really glad.
8:56 Obviously that's a macabre way of thinking about it, but it's like, I'm glad what I told
8:59 you it was right because he immediately walked on stage and told it to his entire congregation.
9:02 But it was like, that's, that's, we didn't know all the details of what were happening.
9:06 We still don't as of the recording of this.
9:08 But yeah, it was such a brutal thing to where it's like, this is why we pay attention.
9:12 And so I remember our Sunday school class early this year, we were kind of brainstorming
9:17 topics for the year because we have like seven or eight guys that rotate teaching and I'm
9:20 one of those guys.
9:22 And one of the people they brought up top is they're like, it's, it's really good if there's
9:27 something big that's happening that's really, really complicated, if we can have, you know,
9:31 somebody teach us and then everyone just kind of looks at me.
9:34 Because like right after the October 7th attack by Hamas, like there was so much going
9:39 on and I taught Sunday school that Sunday.
9:41 And I was like, here's what's going on, like here, here's what actually happened and it's
9:46 really, really rough.
9:47 But it's kind of hard to kind of set the scene because if you just say Christians are being
9:51 persecuted in Syria and you leave it there and you don't talk about regime change, you
9:55 don't talk about other minorities that are being persecuted.
9:58 If you don't talk about all that stuff, it's kind of hard, but you know, once you start
10:02 pulling that thread, you know, it goes back, it goes back to the, to the Old Testament when
10:07 you start pulling that thread on that area of the world.
10:10 So we'll, we'll leave that there for now.
10:11 I do want to get into technically my first question, even though we've been waxing poetic
10:14 for about 10 minutes about other stuff, because I asked Wes Huff this same question.
10:19 And I really appreciated his, his answer because I'd never, I wasn't expecting him to answer
10:23 in that way.
10:24 But what evidence would you have to see you, Joby, Martin, personally have to see for you
10:29 to no longer have faith in Christ?
10:31 Yeah.
10:32 I've, I've listened to your Wes Huff interview twice.
10:36 It was so compelling, like, I don't know what it's kind of, I was kind of geeky on it at
10:41 first.
10:42 I was like, oh my God, this is so exciting.
10:43 And then I was like, I'm not listening to the content.
10:45 I'm just happy.
10:46 You know what I mean?
10:47 I had to go back and listen, um, I would, to me, uh, I would have to go back to, there
10:57 would have to be some thing that fully and finally proved that the resurrection was not
11:03 a reality.
11:04 Right.
11:05 Of course.
11:06 Uh, that would, that would be it.
11:07 And, and then, because then, then with that, with that, but that probably, but I would probably
11:11 still believe that there's a God and all of that, because how do you explain things like
11:14 fine tuning and creation?
11:16 And, you know, but the core of it for me, whether from the positive side or the negative
11:21 side is something happened 2,000 years ago with this person named Jesus and the overwhelming
11:27 evidence is that he resurrected from the grave.
11:30 So I don't know what it would, what that evidence would be, but if it was somehow completely
11:36 confirmed that all of that was made up, yeah, then I would point.
11:40 And the reason too is Paul says, cause, you know, sometimes people will say, Hey, well,
11:44 listen, if you're wrong and I'm right, and if I'm wrong, and you know, that whole thing,
11:49 well, but Paul doesn't say that, Paul said, if there's no resurrection, we're stupid.
11:55 We have been wasting our time.
11:57 We've been wasting our money.
11:58 You should mock us, you know, so it all comes back down to the resurrection for me.
12:04 Yeah.
12:05 And don't hear what he's not saying.
12:06 He's not saying, unhitch from the Old Testament, but at the same time, it's one of those deals
12:09 where I've thought about that before that if, if somehow they prove that the resurrection
12:13 was a farce and that the 500 people never really saw the resurrected Jesus or if they
12:18 had, they pulled a switcharoo, like what in that movie with, uh, Oh gosh, uh, the, the
12:23 prestige, right?
12:24 Where there's actually two of them, right?
12:26 And so they have their brothers or twin brothers and they like pull this whole trick.
12:29 But then it's like, okay, I guess I'm Jewish now or something or like, I guess I like,
12:33 I, you know, what do you do?
12:34 You don't just automatically go to, you know, we're highly evolved chimps that figured out
12:37 like which pants and fire.
12:39 It's like, you know, that's, that's not really where, where that ends up.
12:41 All right, we need to go to the next question here, Eric Browning of the forging table fame
12:44 had this question for you.
12:46 How do you hold your kid to something behaviorally that you hypocritically have a hard time holding
12:51 to yourself?
12:52 Oh man.
12:53 Yeah.
12:54 It's good one.
12:55 Yeah.
12:56 That's a, that's a really tough one.
12:58 Uh, well, you know, it, it's similar to being a preacher, man.
13:03 I like, I can't live up to everything I preach, but the ideal is still held as the goal.
13:10 You know, and the reason that you're trying to hold your kid to that is because you love
13:15 them and what's best for them.
13:16 And you don't really break God's rules.
13:18 You break yourself against them.
13:19 I mean, that's what happens, you know, the reason to not lie.
13:22 I mean, it's ultimately because God said not to, but the reason he said not to is because
13:27 your whole life will be burned down.
13:28 Right.
13:29 Um, and then I think, uh, a lot of it probably depends on how old your kid is, but as your
13:34 kid gets a little bit older, um, bro, having some shared accountability and you want to
13:40 be the leader of your house.
13:41 How about be the lead repeater and confessor?
13:43 That's good.
13:44 And instead of trying to act like, Hey man, you know, and don't, don't ever do the just,
13:50 you know, listen to what I say, not what I do, understand most, you know, most of what
13:55 kids receive is caught, not talked, but how about I would join in the journey with your
14:01 kid in struggling through this and I've stolen something that you said, uh, most of us don't
14:08 struggle with sin because if you struggled with it, you would have some victory.
14:13 Yeah.
14:14 You would have some.
14:15 I mean, if you, if you were fighting against this thing, there's going to be some times
14:18 where you're winning.
14:19 Uh, so I would invite your kid into the actual struggle and say, me too, can we work on this
14:23 thing together?
14:24 I mean, can you imagine how cool that would be to grow up with a dad that when you are
14:29 a grown man, you can look back in the rear view mirror and see him as a Matt carrier and
14:34 a foxhole brother ish, you know, on the way to manhood, so that that's what I would do.
14:39 Hey, guys.
14:40 Real quick.
14:41 I know a lot of you guys are really doing everything you can to have a consistent workout
14:44 routine, but the problem is you work out at a global gym and so there's 17 guys on the
14:49 bench that you need and there's people doing bicep curls on the squat rack and the biggest
14:53 problem is not your schedule.
14:54 It's actually where you're trying to get your work in.
14:57 How about you guys stop making excuses and build yourself a home gym and when you do,
15:02 make sure you use sore necks.
15:04 So sore necks is a family owned and operated business that build some of the most impressive
15:08 workout facilities in the entire world.
15:11 They built gyms for teams in the NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, and even the UFC.
15:18 They've also built gyms for some of the biggest and most successful collegiate and high school
15:21 athletic programs in the country.
15:23 But in addition to that, they make the highest quality home gym products that I've ever seen
15:29 on the market.
15:30 In my personal home gym, I have the sore necks, outfit or rack, the heavy version in military
15:35 green.
15:36 Also, I have some of their center mass bells, I've got their Nordic glute ham developer
15:40 and their patented landmine attached to my rack.
15:43 So guys, stop fighting the riff wrath at your local gym or bench or squat rack or whatever.
15:48 And if you're going to build out a home gym, you may as well get one that will last you
15:52 and one that you could even pass down to your kids.
15:56 When you're build out by going to sorenecks.com, that is sorenecks.com S-O-R-I-N-E-X.com.
16:03 Take control of where and when you work out sorenecks.com.
16:07 Yeah, I remember when the house majority leader, when it came out that he and his son were holding
16:12 each other accountable when it came to pornography use, people were like, "How gross, how weird."
16:17 And it's like, "No, actually, that's not gross or weird at all."
16:19 Because again, you don't want to be the dad that is constantly saying, "Do as I say,
16:23 not as I do."
16:24 You want to be able to model things.
16:25 But I mean, I grew up with a dad that didn't apologize for anything ever.
16:28 Nothing was technically ever his fault and everything was, you know, the world was against
16:31 him.
16:32 And like, I don't want my sons to see that.
16:33 Like, I have sat, I mean, I've got now a four-year-old and a three-year-old.
16:37 And I have sat both of them down, looked them in the eye and said, "Dad is so sorry."
16:40 And it's almost always for the same thing.
16:42 It's almost dad got mad, like dad, you know, expressed anger, like dad scared you because
16:45 he got mad, like that type of thing.
16:47 And look, that was unfair and like that dad was sinful and we shouldn't do that.
16:52 And like I'm, you know, I'm sorry, do you forgive me?
16:54 And like, again, they're a kid.
16:56 What are they going to say?
16:57 No, I don't forgive you.
16:58 I'm going to hold this against you because I'm a terrible person.
17:00 Not like they don't, they don't know.
17:01 But you're teaching them the cadence of, "Hey, look, I asked for forgiveness."
17:06 And then you offer forgiveness back, even if you don't want to, even if you're still
17:09 a little bit mad.
17:10 And so I think that that's all very important as well.
17:12 So you got anything else on that before we move to the next one?
17:14 Yeah.
17:15 The worst thing you can do is teach your kids that the game is to hide.
17:20 You don't want to hide and seek some fun little game to play.
17:23 It's a terrible spiritual game to play because the moment a kid sees their parents screw
17:28 up and then not confess and repent, but run and hide, then they're like, "Oh, so that's
17:34 what we do."
17:35 Right.
17:36 When we screw up here, we don't run to dad, we run from him.
17:38 We don't run to God and confess, we run from him.
17:41 We don't say things out loud like, "I'm, I'm a center in need of a savior."
17:45 What we do is pretend.
17:46 So this whole church thing is a big game of pretend.
17:49 And that's what you can end up teaching your kids, if you live this duplicitive kind of
17:53 life.
17:54 Well, bro, and get back on the highway quickly.
17:56 You take the detour to Angertown and just get right back on the highway.
17:59 So guys are like, "No, I need to go think about it.
18:01 I need to go, I need to go pump some iron.
18:03 I need to go take a drive."
18:04 It's like, "No, no, no."
18:05 The moment you realize you're the moron in the situation, you go apologize.
18:08 You apologize to mama.
18:09 You apologize to your kids.
18:11 Like that's the way to do it.
18:12 All right.
18:13 Next one here, this from Christopher.
18:14 Christopher is a monthly donor.
18:15 Guys, if you want your question added to this bank, you've got to be a monthly donor or
18:17 you've got to be one of my boys or you've got to be me.
18:19 This is from Christopher.
18:20 Long time, 11, 22 are.
18:22 Does God treat all sin as equal?
18:24 I know that all sin disqualifies us, absent Jesus, in that the physical consequences of
18:28 sin are different, but from God's perspective, does He treat all types of sin with the same
18:34 disgust?
18:35 No.
18:36 In regards to eternal salvation, any sin disqualifies you from perfection.
18:43 Therefore, you're a sinner in need of a savior.
18:45 So in regards to that, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, yes,
18:49 categorically, that means we all need a savior, but no, not all sins are created equal.
18:57 One, you can look at different punishments in the Old Testament, Old Covenant, and that
19:01 can, it'll show you how sins are weighted, that the consequences, even from God are necessarily
19:07 the same.
19:08 And even in the New Testament, Paul, when talking about sexual sin, says sexual sin is
19:12 in a category unto itself.
19:15 And all other sins and man commits are outside his body, he who sins sexually, sins against
19:20 his own body.
19:21 So that is a different set of sins.
19:24 And so you've got to kind of think about these things horizontally and vertically.
19:29 But no, from God's perspective, there are different levels of sin.
19:33 And there's also going to be more than just one judgment when we get to heaven.
19:36 Now, I mean, I don't even know how to explain all this in a couple of minutes, but there
19:41 is this great white throne judgment where you're either in or out, like see Matthew chapter
19:45 25, you're either a sheep or a goat, you're either no Jesus and are saved and going to
19:49 heaven or you don't know him and you're going to hell.
19:51 But then there are also other books in addition to the book of life that is open in the book
19:56 of Revelation where we will be rewarded for the things that we do.
20:00 And so there are levels of obedience to God.
20:05 And so no, not all sin is the same, it is not, particularly sexual sin is in a category
20:09 of its own.
20:10 Jobe, that sounds weird because I've been reliably informed by theologians on Instagram
20:14 that everyone goes to heaven because God is love.
20:16 What's wrong with you?
20:17 You big it.
20:18 How dare you?
20:19 Yeah.
20:20 Yeah.
20:21 And I tell you there's some scary verses like Matthew seven comes to mind Matthew 25.
20:26 The amount of people standing in line that you're going to be real surprised, but like,
20:29 wait, what?
20:30 What do you mean to part for I never knew you bro, but I posted many goddess love things
20:35 on Instagram.
20:37 If you, if you have not surrendered your life to the lordship of Jesus Christ, he's coming
20:42 back.
20:43 But when he comes back, he ain't coming back as a baby and a manger, he's going to have
20:45 a lot of tattoos or at least Lord of lords and kings and kings on his quads to take that.
20:49 And he's going to have a sword in his mouth and his eyes are going to be on fire and he's
20:54 judging.
20:55 And so, and people were like, sounds kind of judgy.
20:58 It's because he's the judge.
20:59 It's what judges do.
21:00 Right.
21:01 Yeah.
21:02 It's up or down, man.
21:03 And his robe, his robe is not dipped in blood like he's dipping it in ink.
21:06 His robe is covered in blood and we don't know if it's the blood of his enemies or the
21:10 blood from the cross, but I'm going to go and tell you, I don't want to take a guess.
21:14 And I don't want to like, you know, put up, put all on red, you know, and that type of
21:17 situation.
21:18 All right.
21:19 You kind of got into this.
21:20 So I have a question about this.
21:21 It's about Bible versus being descriptive versus prescriptive because people that's like,
21:27 that's in the Christian world, that's like using word nuance, right?
21:30 So it's like, Hey, what was that descriptive or is that prescriptive?
21:32 You can sound real smart and actually not be saying anything.
21:35 So, but there are a lot of people that get confused or like, wait a minute, if, if the
21:38 old law has been fulfilled, okay, do we still have to follow the 10 commandments?
21:42 Hey, okay.
21:43 Well, this is described in the Bible versus like prescribed in the Bible.
21:47 Wait, this is allegory, you know, this Jesus isn't really a vine, right?
21:52 He's not really a door that we need to knock on.
21:54 And so it gets kind of confusing for, for people to know like, wait, hey, this verse
21:59 about women, you know, basically keeping quiet in church, not having any leadership over
22:03 a man, because I've had the argument like, Kyle, that's not prescriptive for us today.
22:07 That was descriptive for a particular church at a particular time in history.
22:10 And how do we delineate which is which man?
22:14 What a great question.
22:15 Okay.
22:16 Some of the examples are not too hard to delineate.
22:20 For example, we're teaching through first Timothy at our church right now.
22:24 And Paul tells Timothy at the church of Ephesus, if a widow is under 60, then don't even put
22:30 her on the help the widow list.
22:32 So do you think that's like, all right.
22:34 So I think that would be a descriptive of the time.
22:38 And here's why, because women had to have men to take care of them in the first century.
22:42 And there were some women trying to work the system, et cetera.
22:45 So that one seems to be kind of an easy one here.
22:47 I think what you actually have to get down to is in your own heart, is everything that
22:54 you don't like about the verses, do you put all of them in the descriptive category and
22:59 not the prescriptive category?
23:01 So show me the thing in your life that you don't like and is prescriptive.
23:07 And let's start there because what'll happen real quick is you're like, uh oh, I'm actually
23:12 just uncomfortable walking out what the Bible says about the role of men and women.
23:17 So to make it easy on me and most honestly, man, most men are afraid of the emotions of
23:23 their wife.
23:24 And so instead of standing on what the word of God says, I've got a new category.
23:27 I can put that Bible verse in so it doesn't count for me anymore.
23:31 So and you actually know in your heart, if you're like negotiating obedience against
23:37 yourself and you're always going to win when you're in a negotiation with yourself.
23:42 So that would be one of the first things that I would do is I would just, I would just heart
23:47 check me.
23:49 Another thing that I'm a big fan of, there's so many people that are so much smarter than
23:54 either of us are and they spend their whole life.
23:57 You know, I, one of the things, when I have questions about these kinds of things, even
24:03 though I don't agree with him on everything, I agree with a guy like Dr. John Piper and
24:08 have learned from him so much and he's got this resource, uh, called where he owned on
24:15 desiring God, he just answers questions, all kind of question, parenting questions and
24:19 it's everything you could think of, you know, and so lean into the folks that you trust in
24:26 regards to their view of the Bible, soteriology, what it takes to get to heaven.
24:31 And then on the secondary issues, then you could be informed by those same folks.
24:36 That's kind of a good little hack on how to figure that out.
24:38 One thing that I would say real quick on, uh, like a guy like Piper, so don't take one
24:43 thing that you vehemently disagree with and then, you know, delete someone entirely from
24:46 your category because I, you know, saw recently where the back in like 2017 or 2018 Piper
24:52 basically said he would not, he would not harm somebody that were like breaking into
24:56 his house.
24:57 I would potentially be harming his family members.
24:59 Like he doesn't believe in, you know, returning violence for violence and all that kind of
25:02 stuff.
25:03 And so it's just really kind of like kind of limp risk and viewpoint on violence, which
25:06 coming from a guy like him, who's more like a professor with Asperger's, it's like, yeah,
25:10 okay, that makes sense.
25:11 Like you don't want to, you know, break your, your little limp risk, you know, on somebody
25:14 like trying to hurt them, but like don't take that and be like, okay, now we delete John
25:18 Piper.
25:19 So, uh, we got a few more questions left and we're running out of time.
25:22 So, uh, Reg and Sid are two different, uh, guys that are in my career, you actually met
25:27 Reg whenever you were out here in Oklahoma here recently, they both were asking about
25:31 exorcism.
25:32 Okay.
25:33 Sid was specifically talking about, you know, when Jesus cast the demons into the pigs,
25:37 like when the pigs died in drown, like did all the demons die with him or did they go
25:41 back into the spirit realm and then Reg was specifically asking about like, okay, when
25:45 you see, you know, movies with exorcisms or when you have Catholic priests on the Michael
25:50 Know show talking about, no, we get called to houses and people are possessed.
25:54 And so if they're possessed, they're obviously not in Christ, uh, there's a difference between
25:58 possessed and oppressed, but like, what are your thoughts on that?
26:00 Because obviously that gets real out into the woo, woo world and charismatic world and
26:04 different things.
26:05 And like, you know, you even said recently to me in a private, you know, meeting used to
26:08 think, you know, there wasn't a whole lot, you know, there weren't demons behind every
26:12 bush and now you're like, you're convinced that there might be two behind every bush.
26:15 And so how should we think about demons, the spiritual realm?
26:18 Where do they go when they're cast out, that kind of stuff?
26:20 Well, um, I mean, I'm a Bible guy.
26:23 So a fee, you got to lean on Ephesians six.
26:26 So what I know to be true is our battle is not against flesh and blood, but our battle
26:30 is in the demonic realm, okay.
26:34 And my upbringing and my experience shape a lot of how I see that, but what is true, what
26:39 is most true, what is foundational is not my experience or even, uh, kind of my wire
26:45 in either towards or against that kind of thing, but just what the Bible says.
26:50 That being said, Jesus cast out demons.
26:52 So demons have been around since creation or since the fall.
26:57 And so since, you know, Satan got cast out of heaven and a third of the angels got cast
27:01 out with him.
27:02 And so I believe all those things to be true, because that's what the authoritative reveal
27:06 word of God sits.
27:08 I, another thing we got to caution ourselves on, uh, because I'm not a flaming charismatic
27:14 guy, um, is because of the misuse and abuse that some people have had in that world.
27:22 You don't throw out the truth of the word of God.
27:24 I think a good way to think about it is man, every evil that you come up against, it's
27:30 on this continuum of either just collateral damage from the fall, like, no, that guy's
27:35 not possessed by a demon.
27:36 He's just crazy.
27:37 Well, crazy came because Adam and Eve broke the law of God and everything in the world
27:43 got fractured.
27:45 So that it could be that guy's just his brain will work, right?
27:48 But then it also could be some form of demonic oppression or possession on a person.
27:54 So if you think about it more like that, like a gradient than either either yes or no on
27:59 or off is that demonic or not, I think that's a better way to think about it because the
28:05 prince of the air is doing all kinds of things.
28:08 He's doing it covertly and overtly.
28:11 He's oppressing and possessing.
28:14 Maybe he does put something in the water to just make some of these people go crazy over
28:17 here and he puts something in the social media water over here to put, you know, but it is
28:21 all a warfare against the demonic.
28:25 If you would like, I mean, we did a series on spiritual warfare called stand firm and one
28:30 of the cool things about the internet is you could go back and it would be a resource on
28:35 how to battle because your battle is not against flesh and blood kind of what I think too is
28:41 a lot of things that we have diagnosis is for.
28:44 They didn't necessarily have in the first century, but that does not make it any more
28:49 or less a result of the evil that exists in our world because the enemy wants to steal
28:57 kill and destroy physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally.
29:01 Yeah.
29:02 Yeah, and I want to cosign the thing about going back.
29:05 I think when you and I first met, it would have been, I don't know, 2022 or something
29:08 like that when we were connected whenever your first book came out and I went back to your
29:12 sermons from 2016.
29:13 I was like, all right, I need to figure out this dude's legit or not.
29:16 I was like, all right, there's something in the water here with this guy.
29:19 So all right, we got a question from a lady listener.
29:22 So we got to get to those because we love our lady listeners.
29:24 We don't have that many of them, but the ones we do have are lionesses.
29:27 So it's a good one.
29:28 I'll read it in its totality here.
29:29 If God cannot be in the presence of evil, how is it that Satan can be in God's presence?
29:34 Throughout the Old Testament, we see that only a select few can enter the tent with God and
29:40 they offer the sacrifices before doing so.
29:43 Jesus is the final sacrifice so that we can one day be with God eternally.
29:47 I've read the book of Job several times at this point in my life, but today this passage
29:51 jumped out.
29:52 The Lord said to Satan, very well, then everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself
29:57 do not lay a finger, then Satan went out from his presence of the Lord.
30:01 That's Job 112.
30:03 How can Satan be in the presence of the Lord?
30:05 Because he was summoned by God.
30:07 So we, the phrase God cannot be in the presence of sin.
30:12 I think that's taken to an extreme that doesn't mean what it originally intended.
30:17 Originally, what you mean is me as a sinner cannot approach the throne room of God without
30:23 me just getting burn up.
30:25 So a picture of this is in the Holy of Holies that was represented in the very presence of
30:31 God on earth before Jesus came.
30:34 So God can be in the presence of sin.
30:36 Jesus is God and Jesus was among sinners all the time.
30:40 So it's when God allows a sinner to enter his domain, then that is what can happen if
30:48 God summons, but not the other way around.
30:51 It's not like we can go knock on the curtain of the Holy of Holies and just enter or the
30:56 holiness of God would just wipe us out immediately.
30:59 So you've got it.
31:02 You're kind of reversing like when we say God can't, you've got to be really careful
31:07 with those kinds of phrases, you know, and there are some things I don't even know how
31:12 to say them like God either can't do or won't do.
31:15 Like God can't be surprised, you know what I mean?
31:17 Because he already knows everything, but that's not a limitation on God.
31:21 It's just the shadow of the reality that he's omniscient, you know, so God can do whatever
31:26 he wants.
31:27 So if he would like to summon Satan in to have a conversation about Job, no problem.
31:32 If he would like to show up in a miraculous way so that Isaiah could see him in the throne
31:40 room, no problem.
31:41 And Isaiah still live if Jesus wants to glorify himself or transfigure himself on the mountain
31:48 and allow Peter James and John to not be burn up.
31:52 He can do that for whatever purpose that he wants to, but you cannot live a life of sin,
31:59 not have your sin paid for and then go and demand entrance into the presence of God because
32:04 you are unholy and you don't get to do that.
32:07 That's the difference.
32:08 All right.
32:09 Very good.
32:10 And as always, we like to end on a very serious note.
32:11 I got two rapid fire lightning around questions for you.
32:14 Okay.
32:15 One, if you get in a fist fight with any historical figure, who would it be and why?
32:20 Hitler.
32:21 Okay.
32:22 You'd fight Hitler.
32:23 I'm fighting Karl Marx, right?
32:24 Or David, because I want to like test myself against the guy, like I'm not pulling guard
32:27 against David.
32:28 I just want to see, Hey, you know, you killed a lion.
32:29 So what's it like going after me?
32:30 But yeah, I'm taking out Karl.
32:31 I feel like I got to kill Hitler as an adult because, you know, I let him slide as a baby.
32:35 So what again, no one's going to let you live that one down, Joey.
32:39 All right.
32:40 You could have prepared the Holocaust.
32:41 You could have proven in the Holocaust, man.
32:42 Come on.
32:43 I think God's in charge, not me.
32:45 Again, if I was a CIA agent and God sent me or my government sent me, then I would have
32:49 a different thing.
32:50 But that's all right.
32:51 I trust God.
32:52 But yeah, I would, I would, can you imagine when that'd be fun as crap just to beat the
32:55 dog?
32:56 Oh my gosh.
32:57 Hitler.
32:58 Yeah, it would be.
32:59 Yeah.
33:00 Just pluck it out one by one when you're in my mind because I think you're just so tough.
33:03 Come on.
33:04 Get out of here.
33:05 All right.
33:06 Last one.
33:07 Consider be chased by 100 duck-sized grizzly bears or one grizzly bear-sized duck.
33:18 Grizzly bear-sized duck.
33:20 Okay.
33:21 Why?
33:22 Because if you think about a duck, have you ever seen the little teeth on a duck?
33:25 Imagine that, like the size of a freaking Kodiak, like, that thing and jack you up.
33:31 But my dogs, my little worthless dogs are about duck size in their teeth.
33:36 And there was a hundred of them, grizzly-esque.
33:38 Yeah, I feel like I would do better against one big bill and some webbed feet.
33:43 Okay.
33:44 What would the number of grizzly bear or duck size grizzly bears do you think you could
33:48 handle?
33:49 Because a hundred is a lot.
33:50 Yeah, I'd have to get down to it.
33:51 I mean, it would be close to like ten, a dozen, maybe, close to single digits, you know?
33:55 Yeah.
33:56 I was just thinking like, if I had a bat, I mean, that big duck, he could just swallow
33:59 me, right?
34:00 Like a grizzly bear-sized duck, he could just take me out.
34:01 But if I had like a bat or something, even like a nine iron, I feel like I could like,
34:05 you know, keep those little grizzly bear or those duck size grizzly bears off me, at least
34:08 for a little bit.
34:09 Dude, I was, I, sometimes I use as an illustration, one time these ducks were at my house and
34:15 they were like, like honking at me and messing with me and I was trying to fish and, and
34:20 I was like, you know, and then I thought, what am I doing?
34:22 These are freaking ducks.
34:23 I mean, goose, we're at geese.
34:24 And so I turned around and I was just, you know, I said, we even do, you know, and I've
34:28 shoot them away.
34:29 And so I was making fun of it because like we have the power of Christ in us and sometimes
34:33 we bow down to these things.
34:35 And we need to just be like, bro, you were a toothless, like when Jesus died on the cross,
34:40 he took away all of your weaponry in me.
34:43 You've got no power against me.
34:44 You've got to stand in big, you know, that's kind of the term of illustration.
34:47 This joker in our church sends me a video of a goose beating the, I mean, just UFC in
34:52 this golf course.
34:53 Have you seen this thing?
34:55 Yes.
34:56 He just, he wouldn't leave him alone, flipped him over his bag and wore him out, bro.
35:01 Okay.
35:02 I stand correct.
35:03 Oh, yeah, that's the thing is like the, the first time a duck or goose hissed at me,
35:07 I was like, all right, I don't really know what's going on there, but I don't think
35:10 I want to try it.
35:11 Like that next seems kind of flimsy, but I don't know, it might be able to snap me up,
35:14 but Joe, have you got anything else for before we get out of here?
35:16 Oh, yeah.
35:17 Tom's have changed.
35:18 I was with my dad recently.
35:19 He's like 76 years old and in the state fair in South Carolina, when he was like 20,
35:25 you could pay a dollar and you could fight a monkey like a, or no, ring a tang or something.
35:30 And a ring and fight it and, and dudes would, and they had to stop it because the, that,
35:36 I mean, I'm monkey was killing people, not literally, but you know, think about that.
35:40 Think about how far we have declined in our manhood.
35:43 You could pay a dollar and fight in a ring and saying, Joby, you just gave me an idea
35:47 for men's conference, you know what, in the parking lot, get some chimps out there.
35:52 So you got to make sure there's some tasers or cattle prods there and available.
35:55 Maybe some tranquilizer darts or something like that, but all right, Joby, we'll talk
35:58 again soon.
35:59 Okay.
36:00 Peace.
36:01 Thank you for listening to this podcast.
36:02 Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five
36:05 star review.
36:06 If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an email
36:09 to info@undonton.life.
36:11 That's I N F O at undonton.life.
36:14 Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else,
36:17 including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way.
36:20 Just go to www.undonton.life.
36:22 And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for
36:25 our content.
36:26 The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self-titled debut album
36:30 on Face Down Records.
36:32 The links are in the description.
36:33 I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
36:35 Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
36:42 Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
36:56 [music]
Key quotes
2
Kyle Thompson
The worst thing you can do is teach your kids that the game is to hide.
Joby Martin
If you don't run to God and confess, you run from Him.
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