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This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
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I'm your host Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.
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Joe B. Martin to the astute viewer of Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
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They're going to wonder to themselves, Kyle, why is your watch on your right wrist?
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And it's not because, you know, sometimes when I speak, I'll tell people to switch their
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watch to their other wrist because I have like, hey, I got to tell you something really
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important and you're going to remember it because every time you look to check the time
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this week, you're going to go to the opposite wrist.
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And then when you look over here, it's like, ah, I remember the Kyle said that.
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I don't have a cool enough story for that.
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It's because I got tattoo work.
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I'm in the middle of some more tattoo work on the left side.
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I'm doing my inner forearm here and you can see the stencil because literally, Joe B, the
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moment we're done, I'm hopping in the truck and going back to Dustin Yip and getting some
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more work done.
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So we got a little bit of a, ah, of a, ah, got a lamb there and we're working and it's
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kind of hard to see, but working into a skull, kind of a Golgotha thing.
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We got some crosses coming in and you got some new ink because as I was getting in,
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you sent me a picture of some new ink.
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So let's check that out.
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Let's see that for all the people watching the YouTube.
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So that is a sword because the Bible is the sort of the spirit is kind of, kind of a little
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daily blade.
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Yeah.
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Where have I heard that before?
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Yeah.
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I mean, and then in Greek, uh, second enemy for to preach the word and a part of the reason
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I put it right there, I want to had a gap and it just driving me crazy.
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But also when I grabbed my podium, I can see two things I can see to tell a style on this
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side.
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It is finished.
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Like so when the devil lies to me and he's like, who do you think you are to stand up
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here and preach the word to people?
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He's like, like, shut up, he's already paid the bill.
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And then this, uh, that's just what I, that's what I do, preach the word.
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So yeah, man.
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And I'm going back for more.
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Well, see, you're going back for more.
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But you told me as I was getting going, you're like, Hey, you know, uh, how's your guy do
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his all booking and all that?
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And you know, people are interested.
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They'll be like, Hey, you know, who's your guy, but they never really intend to book.
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But like last night you were like hounding me, you're like, no, I, I need his contact.
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Like, but so are you going to become an Oklahoma to get some work done?
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What's going on here?
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Yeah.
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I think so.
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Because at your place last week, I just, I just kept looking at Jesus on your arm, looking
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back at me.
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It's the quality.
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So good.
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Right, right, right.
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And so, you know, I got a big, I got all this.
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So I think I might do a big black and white piece, like scenery kind of thing like you're
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doing there.
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So again, I need to take you to go gotha to the actual place of the skull, what Christ
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was crucified.
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Maybe all the, not just the biblical history of it, but the like the kind of the archeological
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history of how they found it and all of that.
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It's pretty incredible.
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Well, yes, you do.
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So next Israel trip, make sure you hit me up.
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And then that means we can go to what?
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Razookos.
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And we can get one of the, Hey, tell, yeah, Razook.
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So tell everybody about them.
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Cause they're, you know, by the time you guys are listening to this, he'll be back in Jerusalem
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probably, but that dude's like traveling around the US right now and doing the things.
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But it's the oldest tattoo parlor in the world, but talk about the stamps.
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So it has been, I mean, I might mess up some of the details of this, but it's been the
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longest continuous tattoo parlor in the world.
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Same family from a mouth of, I want to say like 1300s or something like that.
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I think that's right.
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And so they have these little, the way they did tattoos back in the day is they, they
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would build out these little wooden block stamps, put it in ink, put the ink on you.
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And that, that was like the stencil and then they would like pin it in, you know, well,
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they still have those ancient stamps.
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Um, so if you ever watched Chandler preach and he's got that one right here on his forearm
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and that, that was from Razooks.
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And so I got to tell us, you can get regular tattoos there too.
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I got to tell us that.
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And then I also got the Jerusalem cross, which has been in the news a lot lately with Pete
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head says, but that's just the Jerusalem cross.
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Let's just clear this up for all the listeners.
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Um, this is the represent the, the wounds of Christ on the cross, hands, feet, side that
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go to the four corners of the earth.
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So taking the gospel from Jerusalem to the ends of the earth.
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And then I put a passage from Isaiah, uh, he was pierced for our transgressions.
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So I got that at Razooks also there.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I mean, that's the thing.
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If you're going to get it done, you get it done there.
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And like, so I'm thinking about getting the Jerusalem cross on the top of my right hand.
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And so it's like, I mean, I'm going to be bait, I'm going to have the gospel on my arm.
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So I've got the lamb of God's side.
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I'm going to work on the line of Judas side.
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So I'll talk to you more about that and then having that on my hand.
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Cause I couldn't really think of anywhere else to do it because if you put it on your chest,
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well, then there goes your chest piece, you know, maybe I can put a, put thug life in
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Greek across my stomach and then do the Jerusalem cross around my belly button, maybe something
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like that, maybe some tribal around it, you know, maybe no, not not feeling it.
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I mean, whatever you want to do, all of mine, I mean, you know, I've got the cross ground
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thorns over here acts 11, 24.
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He was a good man full of Holy Spirit and faith and a great number of people brought
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to the Lord.
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I got my family in here.
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There's a big G in the middle and JP and RC cause it's like my God, my people, you know,
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an homage to my friend who I led to Christ and anyway, it all for me, it matters a whole
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bunch.
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That three right there is cause JP wanted to get a tattoo and I was like, no, dude, don't
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be dumb.
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You're 18.
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You make terrible decisions.
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He's like, can I get the fourth?
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And I'm like, Oh my God.
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Yeah, I think I'm going to cry.
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And he got a ride on this chest man.
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Yeah.
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Like a boss.
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And then he was like, then we can granddaddy to get junior.
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I was like, I don't think so.
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Yeah, well, maybe not with granddaddy, but, but anyway, yeah, so that's, that's all good
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stuff.
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Obviously I'm going to get you connected again.
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Shout out to Dustin.
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Yep.
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One of the best black and gray guys that I've seen certainly the best that I've seen in
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Oklahoma.
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I'm so glad that he moved here.
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So kind of a somber, a somber way to start, but you know, this is coming out a few weeks
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after we record, but you stopped your service at the very beginning over the week.
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End.
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Okay.
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So guys, if you're not listening to Joby Sermons, what's wrong with you should be listening.
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But I think it was week 10 of your first Timothy series.
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You stopped the very beginning of the service because there had been reports that have come
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out about certainly in February, whenever 70 Christians were beheaded by Muslim fundamentalists
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in Congo, and there's been ongoing murders there with Boko Haram in Nigeria, but then
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in Syria.
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And again, by the time you guys are listening this, so much more information is going to
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be out.
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Like I'm literally sitting here.
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The contact's going all the way completely up the chain of the United States federal
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government and we're still having trouble figuring out what exactly is going on on the
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ground there, but you felt the need to pause your service on a, you know, it was a, you're
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talking about work, you know, you're talking about like two verses and you're talking about
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like, you know, hey, working is unto the Lord essentially, but why did you feel the need
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to like pause and tell everybody because it's not like persecutions on happening all day
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every day, but there was just something unique about what was going on in Syria and what
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we were seeing in that time.
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Well, there definitely seems to be an uptick, you know, I mean, you're talking of hundreds
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of Christians losing their life within a few days because they're Christians.
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Like you said, in Congo and in Syria and just kind of in between services, I mean, people
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won't know this, but I'm on a group chat with a bunch of pastors, you'd know all their names
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and we just are always kind of praying for each other, encouraging one another like hope
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for a service went good praying for your next services, that sort of stuff.
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And then I popped on Instagram for a second and I saw JP Pecluda who's a brand new friend
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of mine saying, Hey, as you gathered today, pray for Christians and, and then I saw you
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reshare that.
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So I checked with you immediately and man, we are just the church.
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I mean, there's just one big Jesus loving body around the world and I'm about to talk
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about how to honor God at work.
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And I, and listen, and it was also daylight savings and it was pouring rain in Jacksonville.
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So I know people already felt like they were martyrs because they actually showed up and
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thought they'd done something.
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And I did just want to kind of reset things and be like, man, we got brothers and sisters
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right now losing their children and losing their heads for the name of Christ.
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And the blood of martyrs is the seed that grows the church.
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And so I just felt like it was the thing that we needed to do, you know, it wasn't program.
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It's not a part of, it's because the spirit of God said stop and pray for brothers and
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sisters around the world right now.
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So that's what we did.
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So, you know, we had tens of thousands of people praying for our brothers and sisters
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in Syria and in Congo.
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Well, that's part of the thing.
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I kind of made a joke to my wife.
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I'm like, I'm really glad we're not really glad.
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Obviously that's a macabre way of thinking about it, but it's like, I'm glad what I told
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you it was right because he immediately walked on stage and told it to his entire congregation.
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But it was like, that's, that's, we didn't know all the details of what were happening.
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We still don't as of the recording of this.
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But yeah, it was such a brutal thing to where it's like, this is why we pay attention.
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And so I remember our Sunday school class early this year, we were kind of brainstorming
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topics for the year because we have like seven or eight guys that rotate teaching and I'm
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one of those guys.
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And one of the people they brought up top is they're like, it's, it's really good if there's
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something big that's happening that's really, really complicated, if we can have, you know,
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somebody teach us and then everyone just kind of looks at me.
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Because like right after the October 7th attack by Hamas, like there was so much going
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on and I taught Sunday school that Sunday.
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And I was like, here's what's going on, like here, here's what actually happened and it's
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really, really rough.
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But it's kind of hard to kind of set the scene because if you just say Christians are being
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persecuted in Syria and you leave it there and you don't talk about regime change, you
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don't talk about other minorities that are being persecuted.
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If you don't talk about all that stuff, it's kind of hard, but you know, once you start
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pulling that thread, you know, it goes back, it goes back to the, to the Old Testament when
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you start pulling that thread on that area of the world.
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So we'll, we'll leave that there for now.
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I do want to get into technically my first question, even though we've been waxing poetic
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for about 10 minutes about other stuff, because I asked Wes Huff this same question.
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And I really appreciated his, his answer because I'd never, I wasn't expecting him to answer
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in that way.
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But what evidence would you have to see you, Joby, Martin, personally have to see for you
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to no longer have faith in Christ?
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Yeah.
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I've, I've listened to your Wes Huff interview twice.
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It was so compelling, like, I don't know what it's kind of, I was kind of geeky on it at
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first.
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I was like, oh my God, this is so exciting.
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And then I was like, I'm not listening to the content.
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I'm just happy.
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You know what I mean?
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I had to go back and listen, um, I would, to me, uh, I would have to go back to, there
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would have to be some thing that fully and finally proved that the resurrection was not
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a reality.
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Right.
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Of course.
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Uh, that would, that would be it.
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And, and then, because then, then with that, with that, but that probably, but I would probably
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still believe that there's a God and all of that, because how do you explain things like
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fine tuning and creation?
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And, you know, but the core of it for me, whether from the positive side or the negative
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side is something happened 2,000 years ago with this person named Jesus and the overwhelming
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evidence is that he resurrected from the grave.
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So I don't know what it would, what that evidence would be, but if it was somehow completely
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confirmed that all of that was made up, yeah, then I would point.
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And the reason too is Paul says, cause, you know, sometimes people will say, Hey, well,
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listen, if you're wrong and I'm right, and if I'm wrong, and you know, that whole thing,
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well, but Paul doesn't say that, Paul said, if there's no resurrection, we're stupid.
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We have been wasting our time.
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We've been wasting our money.
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You should mock us, you know, so it all comes back down to the resurrection for me.
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Yeah.
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And don't hear what he's not saying.
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He's not saying, unhitch from the Old Testament, but at the same time, it's one of those deals
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where I've thought about that before that if, if somehow they prove that the resurrection
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was a farce and that the 500 people never really saw the resurrected Jesus or if they
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had, they pulled a switcharoo, like what in that movie with, uh, Oh gosh, uh, the, the
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prestige, right?
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Where there's actually two of them, right?
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And so they have their brothers or twin brothers and they like pull this whole trick.
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But then it's like, okay, I guess I'm Jewish now or something or like, I guess I like,
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I, you know, what do you do?
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You don't just automatically go to, you know, we're highly evolved chimps that figured out
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like which pants and fire.
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It's like, you know, that's, that's not really where, where that ends up.
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All right, we need to go to the next question here, Eric Browning of the forging table fame
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had this question for you.
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How do you hold your kid to something behaviorally that you hypocritically have a hard time holding
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to yourself?
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Oh man.
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Yeah.
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It's good one.
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Yeah.
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That's a, that's a really tough one.
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Uh, well, you know, it, it's similar to being a preacher, man.
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I like, I can't live up to everything I preach, but the ideal is still held as the goal.
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You know, and the reason that you're trying to hold your kid to that is because you love
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them and what's best for them.
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And you don't really break God's rules.
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You break yourself against them.
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I mean, that's what happens, you know, the reason to not lie.
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I mean, it's ultimately because God said not to, but the reason he said not to is because
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your whole life will be burned down.
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Right.
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Um, and then I think, uh, a lot of it probably depends on how old your kid is, but as your
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kid gets a little bit older, um, bro, having some shared accountability and you want to
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be the leader of your house.
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How about be the lead repeater and confessor?
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That's good.
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And instead of trying to act like, Hey man, you know, and don't, don't ever do the just,
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you know, listen to what I say, not what I do, understand most, you know, most of what
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kids receive is caught, not talked, but how about I would join in the journey with your
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kid in struggling through this and I've stolen something that you said, uh, most of us don't
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struggle with sin because if you struggled with it, you would have some victory.
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Yeah.
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You would have some.
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I mean, if you, if you were fighting against this thing, there's going to be some times
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where you're winning.
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Uh, so I would invite your kid into the actual struggle and say, me too, can we work on this
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thing together?
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I mean, can you imagine how cool that would be to grow up with a dad that when you are
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a grown man, you can look back in the rear view mirror and see him as a Matt carrier and
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a foxhole brother ish, you know, on the way to manhood, so that that's what I would do.
14:39
Hey, guys.
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Real quick.
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I know a lot of you guys are really doing everything you can to have a consistent workout
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routine, but the problem is you work out at a global gym and so there's 17 guys on the
14:49
bench that you need and there's people doing bicep curls on the squat rack and the biggest
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problem is not your schedule.
14:54
It's actually where you're trying to get your work in.
14:57
How about you guys stop making excuses and build yourself a home gym and when you do,
15:02
make sure you use sore necks.
15:04
So sore necks is a family owned and operated business that build some of the most impressive
15:08
workout facilities in the entire world.
15:11
They built gyms for teams in the NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, and even the UFC.
15:18
They've also built gyms for some of the biggest and most successful collegiate and high school
15:21
athletic programs in the country.
15:23
But in addition to that, they make the highest quality home gym products that I've ever seen
15:29
on the market.
15:30
In my personal home gym, I have the sore necks, outfit or rack, the heavy version in military
15:35
green.
15:36
Also, I have some of their center mass bells, I've got their Nordic glute ham developer
15:40
and their patented landmine attached to my rack.
15:43
So guys, stop fighting the riff wrath at your local gym or bench or squat rack or whatever.
15:48
And if you're going to build out a home gym, you may as well get one that will last you
15:52
and one that you could even pass down to your kids.
15:56
When you're build out by going to sorenecks.com, that is sorenecks.com S-O-R-I-N-E-X.com.
16:03
Take control of where and when you work out sorenecks.com.
16:07
Yeah, I remember when the house majority leader, when it came out that he and his son were holding
16:12
each other accountable when it came to pornography use, people were like, "How gross, how weird."
16:17
And it's like, "No, actually, that's not gross or weird at all."
16:19
Because again, you don't want to be the dad that is constantly saying, "Do as I say,
16:23
not as I do."
16:24
You want to be able to model things.
16:25
But I mean, I grew up with a dad that didn't apologize for anything ever.
16:28
Nothing was technically ever his fault and everything was, you know, the world was against
16:31
him.
16:32
And like, I don't want my sons to see that.
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Like, I have sat, I mean, I've got now a four-year-old and a three-year-old.
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And I have sat both of them down, looked them in the eye and said, "Dad is so sorry."
16:40
And it's almost always for the same thing.
16:42
It's almost dad got mad, like dad, you know, expressed anger, like dad scared you because
16:45
he got mad, like that type of thing.
16:47
And look, that was unfair and like that dad was sinful and we shouldn't do that.
16:52
And like I'm, you know, I'm sorry, do you forgive me?
16:54
And like, again, they're a kid.
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What are they going to say?
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No, I don't forgive you.
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I'm going to hold this against you because I'm a terrible person.
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Not like they don't, they don't know.
17:01
But you're teaching them the cadence of, "Hey, look, I asked for forgiveness."
17:06
And then you offer forgiveness back, even if you don't want to, even if you're still
17:09
a little bit mad.
17:10
And so I think that that's all very important as well.
17:12
So you got anything else on that before we move to the next one?
17:14
Yeah.
17:15
The worst thing you can do is teach your kids that the game is to hide.
17:20
You don't want to hide and seek some fun little game to play.
17:23
It's a terrible spiritual game to play because the moment a kid sees their parents screw
17:28
up and then not confess and repent, but run and hide, then they're like, "Oh, so that's
17:34
what we do."
17:35
Right.
17:36
When we screw up here, we don't run to dad, we run from him.
17:38
We don't run to God and confess, we run from him.
17:41
We don't say things out loud like, "I'm, I'm a center in need of a savior."
17:45
What we do is pretend.
17:46
So this whole church thing is a big game of pretend.
17:49
And that's what you can end up teaching your kids, if you live this duplicitive kind of
17:53
life.
17:54
Well, bro, and get back on the highway quickly.
17:56
You take the detour to Angertown and just get right back on the highway.
17:59
So guys are like, "No, I need to go think about it.
18:01
I need to go, I need to go pump some iron.
18:03
I need to go take a drive."
18:04
It's like, "No, no, no."
18:05
The moment you realize you're the moron in the situation, you go apologize.
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You apologize to mama.
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You apologize to your kids.
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Like that's the way to do it.
18:12
All right.
18:13
Next one here, this from Christopher.
18:14
Christopher is a monthly donor.
18:15
Guys, if you want your question added to this bank, you've got to be a monthly donor or
18:17
you've got to be one of my boys or you've got to be me.
18:19
This is from Christopher.
18:20
Long time, 11, 22 are.
18:22
Does God treat all sin as equal?
18:24
I know that all sin disqualifies us, absent Jesus, in that the physical consequences of
18:28
sin are different, but from God's perspective, does He treat all types of sin with the same
18:34
disgust?
18:35
No.
18:36
In regards to eternal salvation, any sin disqualifies you from perfection.
18:43
Therefore, you're a sinner in need of a savior.
18:45
So in regards to that, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, yes,
18:49
categorically, that means we all need a savior, but no, not all sins are created equal.
18:57
One, you can look at different punishments in the Old Testament, Old Covenant, and that
19:01
can, it'll show you how sins are weighted, that the consequences, even from God are necessarily
19:07
the same.
19:08
And even in the New Testament, Paul, when talking about sexual sin, says sexual sin is
19:12
in a category unto itself.
19:15
And all other sins and man commits are outside his body, he who sins sexually, sins against
19:20
his own body.
19:21
So that is a different set of sins.
19:24
And so you've got to kind of think about these things horizontally and vertically.
19:29
But no, from God's perspective, there are different levels of sin.
19:33
And there's also going to be more than just one judgment when we get to heaven.
19:36
Now, I mean, I don't even know how to explain all this in a couple of minutes, but there
19:41
is this great white throne judgment where you're either in or out, like see Matthew chapter
19:45
25, you're either a sheep or a goat, you're either no Jesus and are saved and going to
19:49
heaven or you don't know him and you're going to hell.
19:51
But then there are also other books in addition to the book of life that is open in the book
19:56
of Revelation where we will be rewarded for the things that we do.
20:00
And so there are levels of obedience to God.
20:05
And so no, not all sin is the same, it is not, particularly sexual sin is in a category
20:09
of its own.
20:10
Jobe, that sounds weird because I've been reliably informed by theologians on Instagram
20:14
that everyone goes to heaven because God is love.
20:16
What's wrong with you?
20:17
You big it.
20:18
How dare you?
20:19
Yeah.
20:20
Yeah.
20:21
And I tell you there's some scary verses like Matthew seven comes to mind Matthew 25.
20:26
The amount of people standing in line that you're going to be real surprised, but like,
20:29
wait, what?
20:30
What do you mean to part for I never knew you bro, but I posted many goddess love things
20:35
on Instagram.
20:37
If you, if you have not surrendered your life to the lordship of Jesus Christ, he's coming
20:42
back.
20:43
But when he comes back, he ain't coming back as a baby and a manger, he's going to have
20:45
a lot of tattoos or at least Lord of lords and kings and kings on his quads to take that.
20:49
And he's going to have a sword in his mouth and his eyes are going to be on fire and he's
20:54
judging.
20:55
And so, and people were like, sounds kind of judgy.
20:58
It's because he's the judge.
20:59
It's what judges do.
21:00
Right.
21:01
Yeah.
21:02
It's up or down, man.
21:03
And his robe, his robe is not dipped in blood like he's dipping it in ink.
21:06
His robe is covered in blood and we don't know if it's the blood of his enemies or the
21:10
blood from the cross, but I'm going to go and tell you, I don't want to take a guess.
21:14
And I don't want to like, you know, put up, put all on red, you know, and that type of
21:17
situation.
21:18
All right.
21:19
You kind of got into this.
21:20
So I have a question about this.
21:21
It's about Bible versus being descriptive versus prescriptive because people that's like,
21:27
that's in the Christian world, that's like using word nuance, right?
21:30
So it's like, Hey, what was that descriptive or is that prescriptive?
21:32
You can sound real smart and actually not be saying anything.
21:35
So, but there are a lot of people that get confused or like, wait a minute, if, if the
21:38
old law has been fulfilled, okay, do we still have to follow the 10 commandments?
21:42
Hey, okay.
21:43
Well, this is described in the Bible versus like prescribed in the Bible.
21:47
Wait, this is allegory, you know, this Jesus isn't really a vine, right?
21:52
He's not really a door that we need to knock on.
21:54
And so it gets kind of confusing for, for people to know like, wait, hey, this verse
21:59
about women, you know, basically keeping quiet in church, not having any leadership over
22:03
a man, because I've had the argument like, Kyle, that's not prescriptive for us today.
22:07
That was descriptive for a particular church at a particular time in history.
22:10
And how do we delineate which is which man?
22:14
What a great question.
22:15
Okay.
22:16
Some of the examples are not too hard to delineate.
22:20
For example, we're teaching through first Timothy at our church right now.
22:24
And Paul tells Timothy at the church of Ephesus, if a widow is under 60, then don't even put
22:30
her on the help the widow list.
22:32
So do you think that's like, all right.
22:34
So I think that would be a descriptive of the time.
22:38
And here's why, because women had to have men to take care of them in the first century.
22:42
And there were some women trying to work the system, et cetera.
22:45
So that one seems to be kind of an easy one here.
22:47
I think what you actually have to get down to is in your own heart, is everything that
22:54
you don't like about the verses, do you put all of them in the descriptive category and
22:59
not the prescriptive category?
23:01
So show me the thing in your life that you don't like and is prescriptive.
23:07
And let's start there because what'll happen real quick is you're like, uh oh, I'm actually
23:12
just uncomfortable walking out what the Bible says about the role of men and women.
23:17
So to make it easy on me and most honestly, man, most men are afraid of the emotions of
23:23
their wife.
23:24
And so instead of standing on what the word of God says, I've got a new category.
23:27
I can put that Bible verse in so it doesn't count for me anymore.
23:31
So and you actually know in your heart, if you're like negotiating obedience against
23:37
yourself and you're always going to win when you're in a negotiation with yourself.
23:42
So that would be one of the first things that I would do is I would just, I would just heart
23:47
check me.
23:49
Another thing that I'm a big fan of, there's so many people that are so much smarter than
23:54
either of us are and they spend their whole life.
23:57
You know, I, one of the things, when I have questions about these kinds of things, even
24:03
though I don't agree with him on everything, I agree with a guy like Dr. John Piper and
24:08
have learned from him so much and he's got this resource, uh, called where he owned on
24:15
desiring God, he just answers questions, all kind of question, parenting questions and
24:19
it's everything you could think of, you know, and so lean into the folks that you trust in
24:26
regards to their view of the Bible, soteriology, what it takes to get to heaven.
24:31
And then on the secondary issues, then you could be informed by those same folks.
24:36
That's kind of a good little hack on how to figure that out.
24:38
One thing that I would say real quick on, uh, like a guy like Piper, so don't take one
24:43
thing that you vehemently disagree with and then, you know, delete someone entirely from
24:46
your category because I, you know, saw recently where the back in like 2017 or 2018 Piper
24:52
basically said he would not, he would not harm somebody that were like breaking into
24:56
his house.
24:57
I would potentially be harming his family members.
24:59
Like he doesn't believe in, you know, returning violence for violence and all that kind of
25:02
stuff.
25:03
And so it's just really kind of like kind of limp risk and viewpoint on violence, which
25:06
coming from a guy like him, who's more like a professor with Asperger's, it's like, yeah,
25:10
okay, that makes sense.
25:11
Like you don't want to, you know, break your, your little limp risk, you know, on somebody
25:14
like trying to hurt them, but like don't take that and be like, okay, now we delete John
25:18
Piper.
25:19
So, uh, we got a few more questions left and we're running out of time.
25:22
So, uh, Reg and Sid are two different, uh, guys that are in my career, you actually met
25:27
Reg whenever you were out here in Oklahoma here recently, they both were asking about
25:31
exorcism.
25:32
Okay.
25:33
Sid was specifically talking about, you know, when Jesus cast the demons into the pigs,
25:37
like when the pigs died in drown, like did all the demons die with him or did they go
25:41
back into the spirit realm and then Reg was specifically asking about like, okay, when
25:45
you see, you know, movies with exorcisms or when you have Catholic priests on the Michael
25:50
Know show talking about, no, we get called to houses and people are possessed.
25:54
And so if they're possessed, they're obviously not in Christ, uh, there's a difference between
25:58
possessed and oppressed, but like, what are your thoughts on that?
26:00
Because obviously that gets real out into the woo, woo world and charismatic world and
26:04
different things.
26:05
And like, you know, you even said recently to me in a private, you know, meeting used to
26:08
think, you know, there wasn't a whole lot, you know, there weren't demons behind every
26:12
bush and now you're like, you're convinced that there might be two behind every bush.
26:15
And so how should we think about demons, the spiritual realm?
26:18
Where do they go when they're cast out, that kind of stuff?
26:20
Well, um, I mean, I'm a Bible guy.
26:23
So a fee, you got to lean on Ephesians six.
26:26
So what I know to be true is our battle is not against flesh and blood, but our battle
26:30
is in the demonic realm, okay.
26:34
And my upbringing and my experience shape a lot of how I see that, but what is true, what
26:39
is most true, what is foundational is not my experience or even, uh, kind of my wire
26:45
in either towards or against that kind of thing, but just what the Bible says.
26:50
That being said, Jesus cast out demons.
26:52
So demons have been around since creation or since the fall.
26:57
And so since, you know, Satan got cast out of heaven and a third of the angels got cast
27:01
out with him.
27:02
And so I believe all those things to be true, because that's what the authoritative reveal
27:06
word of God sits.
27:08
I, another thing we got to caution ourselves on, uh, because I'm not a flaming charismatic
27:14
guy, um, is because of the misuse and abuse that some people have had in that world.
27:22
You don't throw out the truth of the word of God.
27:24
I think a good way to think about it is man, every evil that you come up against, it's
27:30
on this continuum of either just collateral damage from the fall, like, no, that guy's
27:35
not possessed by a demon.
27:36
He's just crazy.
27:37
Well, crazy came because Adam and Eve broke the law of God and everything in the world
27:43
got fractured.
27:45
So that it could be that guy's just his brain will work, right?
27:48
But then it also could be some form of demonic oppression or possession on a person.
27:54
So if you think about it more like that, like a gradient than either either yes or no on
27:59
or off is that demonic or not, I think that's a better way to think about it because the
28:05
prince of the air is doing all kinds of things.
28:08
He's doing it covertly and overtly.
28:11
He's oppressing and possessing.
28:14
Maybe he does put something in the water to just make some of these people go crazy over
28:17
here and he puts something in the social media water over here to put, you know, but it is
28:21
all a warfare against the demonic.
28:25
If you would like, I mean, we did a series on spiritual warfare called stand firm and one
28:30
of the cool things about the internet is you could go back and it would be a resource on
28:35
how to battle because your battle is not against flesh and blood kind of what I think too is
28:41
a lot of things that we have diagnosis is for.
28:44
They didn't necessarily have in the first century, but that does not make it any more
28:49
or less a result of the evil that exists in our world because the enemy wants to steal
28:57
kill and destroy physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally.
29:01
Yeah.
29:02
Yeah, and I want to cosign the thing about going back.
29:05
I think when you and I first met, it would have been, I don't know, 2022 or something
29:08
like that when we were connected whenever your first book came out and I went back to your
29:12
sermons from 2016.
29:13
I was like, all right, I need to figure out this dude's legit or not.
29:16
I was like, all right, there's something in the water here with this guy.
29:19
So all right, we got a question from a lady listener.
29:22
So we got to get to those because we love our lady listeners.
29:24
We don't have that many of them, but the ones we do have are lionesses.
29:27
So it's a good one.
29:28
I'll read it in its totality here.
29:29
If God cannot be in the presence of evil, how is it that Satan can be in God's presence?
29:34
Throughout the Old Testament, we see that only a select few can enter the tent with God and
29:40
they offer the sacrifices before doing so.
29:43
Jesus is the final sacrifice so that we can one day be with God eternally.
29:47
I've read the book of Job several times at this point in my life, but today this passage
29:51
jumped out.
29:52
The Lord said to Satan, very well, then everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself
29:57
do not lay a finger, then Satan went out from his presence of the Lord.
30:01
That's Job 112.
30:03
How can Satan be in the presence of the Lord?
30:05
Because he was summoned by God.
30:07
So we, the phrase God cannot be in the presence of sin.
30:12
I think that's taken to an extreme that doesn't mean what it originally intended.
30:17
Originally, what you mean is me as a sinner cannot approach the throne room of God without
30:23
me just getting burn up.
30:25
So a picture of this is in the Holy of Holies that was represented in the very presence of
30:31
God on earth before Jesus came.
30:34
So God can be in the presence of sin.
30:36
Jesus is God and Jesus was among sinners all the time.
30:40
So it's when God allows a sinner to enter his domain, then that is what can happen if
30:48
God summons, but not the other way around.
30:51
It's not like we can go knock on the curtain of the Holy of Holies and just enter or the
30:56
holiness of God would just wipe us out immediately.
30:59
So you've got it.
31:02
You're kind of reversing like when we say God can't, you've got to be really careful
31:07
with those kinds of phrases, you know, and there are some things I don't even know how
31:12
to say them like God either can't do or won't do.
31:15
Like God can't be surprised, you know what I mean?
31:17
Because he already knows everything, but that's not a limitation on God.
31:21
It's just the shadow of the reality that he's omniscient, you know, so God can do whatever
31:26
he wants.
31:27
So if he would like to summon Satan in to have a conversation about Job, no problem.
31:32
If he would like to show up in a miraculous way so that Isaiah could see him in the throne
31:40
room, no problem.
31:41
And Isaiah still live if Jesus wants to glorify himself or transfigure himself on the mountain
31:48
and allow Peter James and John to not be burn up.
31:52
He can do that for whatever purpose that he wants to, but you cannot live a life of sin,
31:59
not have your sin paid for and then go and demand entrance into the presence of God because
32:04
you are unholy and you don't get to do that.
32:07
That's the difference.
32:08
All right.
32:09
Very good.
32:10
And as always, we like to end on a very serious note.
32:11
I got two rapid fire lightning around questions for you.
32:14
Okay.
32:15
One, if you get in a fist fight with any historical figure, who would it be and why?
32:20
Hitler.
32:21
Okay.
32:22
You'd fight Hitler.
32:23
I'm fighting Karl Marx, right?
32:24
Or David, because I want to like test myself against the guy, like I'm not pulling guard
32:27
against David.
32:28
I just want to see, Hey, you know, you killed a lion.
32:29
So what's it like going after me?
32:30
But yeah, I'm taking out Karl.
32:31
I feel like I got to kill Hitler as an adult because, you know, I let him slide as a baby.
32:35
So what again, no one's going to let you live that one down, Joey.
32:39
All right.
32:40
You could have prepared the Holocaust.
32:41
You could have proven in the Holocaust, man.
32:42
Come on.
32:43
I think God's in charge, not me.
32:45
Again, if I was a CIA agent and God sent me or my government sent me, then I would have
32:49
a different thing.
32:50
But that's all right.
32:51
I trust God.
32:52
But yeah, I would, I would, can you imagine when that'd be fun as crap just to beat the
32:55
dog?
32:56
Oh my gosh.
32:57
Hitler.
32:58
Yeah, it would be.
32:59
Yeah.
33:00
Just pluck it out one by one when you're in my mind because I think you're just so tough.
33:03
Come on.
33:04
Get out of here.
33:05
All right.
33:06
Last one.
33:07
Consider be chased by 100 duck-sized grizzly bears or one grizzly bear-sized duck.
33:18
Grizzly bear-sized duck.
33:20
Okay.
33:21
Why?
33:22
Because if you think about a duck, have you ever seen the little teeth on a duck?
33:25
Imagine that, like the size of a freaking Kodiak, like, that thing and jack you up.
33:31
But my dogs, my little worthless dogs are about duck size in their teeth.
33:36
And there was a hundred of them, grizzly-esque.
33:38
Yeah, I feel like I would do better against one big bill and some webbed feet.
33:43
Okay.
33:44
What would the number of grizzly bear or duck size grizzly bears do you think you could
33:48
handle?
33:49
Because a hundred is a lot.
33:50
Yeah, I'd have to get down to it.
33:51
I mean, it would be close to like ten, a dozen, maybe, close to single digits, you know?
33:55
Yeah.
33:56
I was just thinking like, if I had a bat, I mean, that big duck, he could just swallow
33:59
me, right?
34:00
Like a grizzly bear-sized duck, he could just take me out.
34:01
But if I had like a bat or something, even like a nine iron, I feel like I could like,
34:05
you know, keep those little grizzly bear or those duck size grizzly bears off me, at least
34:08
for a little bit.
34:09
Dude, I was, I, sometimes I use as an illustration, one time these ducks were at my house and
34:15
they were like, like honking at me and messing with me and I was trying to fish and, and
34:20
I was like, you know, and then I thought, what am I doing?
34:22
These are freaking ducks.
34:23
I mean, goose, we're at geese.
34:24
And so I turned around and I was just, you know, I said, we even do, you know, and I've
34:28
shoot them away.
34:29
And so I was making fun of it because like we have the power of Christ in us and sometimes
34:33
we bow down to these things.
34:35
And we need to just be like, bro, you were a toothless, like when Jesus died on the cross,
34:40
he took away all of your weaponry in me.
34:43
You've got no power against me.
34:44
You've got to stand in big, you know, that's kind of the term of illustration.
34:47
This joker in our church sends me a video of a goose beating the, I mean, just UFC in
34:52
this golf course.
34:53
Have you seen this thing?
34:55
Yes.
34:56
He just, he wouldn't leave him alone, flipped him over his bag and wore him out, bro.
35:01
Okay.
35:02
I stand correct.
35:03
Oh, yeah, that's the thing is like the, the first time a duck or goose hissed at me,
35:07
I was like, all right, I don't really know what's going on there, but I don't think
35:10
I want to try it.
35:11
Like that next seems kind of flimsy, but I don't know, it might be able to snap me up,
35:14
but Joe, have you got anything else for before we get out of here?
35:16
Oh, yeah.
35:17
Tom's have changed.
35:18
I was with my dad recently.
35:19
He's like 76 years old and in the state fair in South Carolina, when he was like 20,
35:25
you could pay a dollar and you could fight a monkey like a, or no, ring a tang or something.
35:30
And a ring and fight it and, and dudes would, and they had to stop it because the, that,
35:36
I mean, I'm monkey was killing people, not literally, but you know, think about that.
35:40
Think about how far we have declined in our manhood.
35:43
You could pay a dollar and fight in a ring and saying, Joby, you just gave me an idea
35:47
for men's conference, you know what, in the parking lot, get some chimps out there.
35:52
So you got to make sure there's some tasers or cattle prods there and available.
35:55
Maybe some tranquilizer darts or something like that, but all right, Joby, we'll talk
35:58
again soon.
35:59
Okay.
36:00
Peace.
36:01
Thank you for listening to this podcast.
36:02
Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five
36:05
star review.
36:06
If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an email
36:09
to info@undonton.life.
36:11
That's I N F O at undonton.life.
36:14
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including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way.
36:20
Just go to www.undonton.life.
36:22
And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for
36:25
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36:26
The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self-titled debut album
36:30
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36:32
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36:33
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
36:35
Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
36:42
Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
36:56
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