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This is Undaunted Life of Man's Podcast, I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
0:55
Let's get into it.
0:56
You'll be Martin.
0:57
I know I normally start out with a question from myself because I'm super selfish and
1:01
all that, but I've been really worried about asking you this question because I'm terrified
1:06
of your answer.
1:07
Okay?
1:08
So I'm just going to throw that out there from the very beginning because as everybody
1:10
on all the fans of the show know at this point, you and I've spent a lot of time together
1:14
here recently came out to Oklahoma.
1:16
I showed you what Southern Hospitality is actually about.
1:19
We went hunting.
1:20
We went to one of the greatest whiskey experiences you could possibly have.
1:24
This side of the pond, you know, we record a couple forging tables, right?
1:29
So you made your forging table debut.
1:30
We did a solo episode.
1:32
I went out to Jacksonville not that long ago and you and I took care of some business over
1:36
there.
1:37
And so first question of the day, are you tired of me yet?
1:42
No way, man.
1:44
How could you get tired of this?
1:45
I'm just going to tell you, it happens a lot.
1:47
There are a lot of people that are like initially they're like, yeah, Kyle, you're the thing,
1:51
man.
1:52
Like you're the source.
1:53
Like you're kind of exhausting like that's what starts coming out in the weeks and months
1:58
ahead.
1:59
I have a very high threshold for intensity.
2:01
How about that?
2:02
Okay.
2:03
Well, then dad gummit challenge accepted because that's the one thing we didn't do when you're
2:08
here in my house in my town is we didn't work out.
2:12
Joby Martin.
2:13
Oh, yeah.
2:14
I had a big O tractor tire and a bunch of sandbags ready to go and you did not seem keen on that
2:19
idea.
2:20
No, I just live weights when it gets hard, I quit.
2:23
You have no idea how much that hurts me.
2:26
Did you say that just to bring me physical pain?
2:28
Because you did.
2:29
Well, I mean, I'm trained hard, but you know, when you just live weights when it gets hard,
2:33
you stop.
2:34
Just going to can't go anymore.
2:35
All right, we're going to fix that, but I have a second question to start out before
2:40
we get to the monthly donor questions, which by the way, guys, again, if you want to have
2:43
your question added to the magical question bank for ask a pastor, you have to be a monthly
2:48
donor to undaunted life, again, we're so thankful for the undaunted life monthly donors.
2:52
But since you did come out here and do the forging table, you got to experience all the
2:56
OGs, right?
2:57
You got Matt Grassmeyer and Ryan Horn.
3:00
And then you had Zach Todd and Eric Browning.
3:02
And then you got to meet all the other guys that have kind of done the forging table at
3:05
different points.
3:06
And so we got to know Joby, who is your favorite forging tabular, right?
3:12
And I am included in that because I have been on all the episodes.
3:15
Okay.
3:16
I am DB of the forging table.
3:19
I've been in every single episode, every single season.
3:22
So the world needs to know who's your favorite.
3:25
I think it's uh, undoubtedly, I think it's Ryan Horn because of his, uh, biblically accurate
3:32
view of soteriology.
3:34
So I've got to go with the truth.
3:37
Okay.
3:38
Do you know how disappointing that is to me and everybody else?
3:40
Cause you just gave him all the gasoline he needed, right?
3:44
Cause if he was ever waffling about whether or not I should come back and get back into
3:47
the fight or all that, you just gave him a blank check.
3:50
What is wrong with you?
3:52
I like that guy, man.
3:53
He can you imagine how he feels right now?
3:55
He's going to be bumped.
3:56
Well, I'm just going to tell you this right now.
3:57
I'm going to just like tell the guys, Hey, skip the next few episodes are just not very
4:01
good.
4:02
Like just, you know, uh, I know y'all are busy.
4:05
You got your families and all that.
4:06
So maybe he won't hear it.
4:07
Maybe the horn will hear.
4:08
He's got his own nickname that he gave himself, Joby.
4:11
He calls himself or used to call himself the horn, like you know, you can't do your own
4:15
nickname.
4:16
Correct.
4:17
Well, unless you're John, okay, well, that's very disappointing.
4:23
I've been somewhat disappointed by all your answers so far, but let's go ahead and get
4:26
into a donor question.
4:27
This question is from Casey.
4:29
We have freedom from the guilt of our sin through salvation, grace and faith.
4:34
Where can men find spiritual strength when our actions or sin affect the financial stability
4:40
of our family?
4:41
Example, losing a job or professional license because of a poor decision or poor decisions.
4:47
We experience a different kind of pain from the consequence of our sin.
4:52
Yeah, there is a, there are two realities that the scripture talks about, uh, one being
4:59
that through the cross, therefore now there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ
5:03
Jesus that the enemy tries to define you by your scars and the gospel defines us by
5:10
the scars of Jesus.
5:11
And because of the imputed righteousness of Christ in our life, when God looks at us,
5:16
he doesn't see our sin.
5:17
He sees his son, the savior.
5:20
That is true.
5:21
And yet God does not necessarily promise to rescue us from the consequences of our own
5:27
sin.
5:29
And it is just a part of the reality of the world that we live in.
5:34
And bad things happen, man.
5:36
And one of the, one of the reasons bad things happen is because of you and God does not necessarily
5:42
promise that he would save you from the results of your own dumb decisions.
5:47
The only thing is the, the only thing you can do about the past is be forgiven of it and
5:51
learn from it.
5:53
So regardless of how you got to where you are now, you are responsible, especially if you
6:00
are a man that has a family, you are responsible of taking care of your family from this point
6:05
forward.
6:06
So suck it up, buttercup, get to work and do whatever it is that you have to do or need
6:10
to do to care for the needs of your family.
6:14
Now not necessarily everybody's wants, but I would spend about zero time wallowing in
6:19
your sorrow from the past and take all of that energy and aim it towards providing for
6:25
those that God has put under your stewardship.
6:29
One of my favorite things that you've said in your sermon, since I've been, and you say
6:32
this often, it's something along the lines of when people are like, Oh, I'm being put
6:36
persecuted or Satan's all over me right now.
6:38
And then you have them describe their situation.
6:40
It's like, Hey bro, that's you, that's you that's happening, right?
6:43
The reason why you have money problems is because you have spending problems.
6:46
The reason why you have, you know, just just pick an issue, pick an ailment is it's typically
6:50
we're the one at the center of that, right?
6:52
Oh, so many times.
6:54
I mean, the way it'll come across is somebody will come up to me and say, Hey, the devil's
6:57
attacking my finances.
6:58
And I'm like, yeah, please explain, like, Oh, what you're doing is you're spending money
7:02
that you don't have.
7:04
Well, I got two things to tell you.
7:05
You're right.
7:06
The devil is attacking your finances and you're the devil, you idiot.
7:09
These are self inflated wounds.
7:11
He doesn't have to waste his time on you because you were killing you.
7:14
Stop it.
7:15
All right.
7:16
Very good.
7:17
Well, we're going to go to the next question here.
7:18
And wouldn't you know it, Joby, as if by some, you know, this is brief predestined that
7:21
this was going to happen.
7:22
This question is from your favorite forging table or Ryan Horn.
7:27
So it's probably going to be the best question you've ever heard too.
7:29
So here we go.
7:31
One of my favorite Christian music worship artists decided to share the stage and concert with
7:35
a worship band whose church is known for their heretical teaching and whose main artist is
7:40
known to be blasphemous in their talk of the Holy Spirit and the Lord's throne room.
7:45
Is it okay to be a little critical of said artists?
7:49
Should artists in a worship setting in a worship setting?
7:51
That's important.
7:52
Take a stand against heretical worship and CCM artists and not do the show.
7:57
Where do we draw the line in this case when it comes to a group of believers actually
8:01
worshiping God rather than going to a concert?
8:04
Now let me provide a little bit extra context to this.
8:07
He's talking about Shane and Shane, right?
8:10
Obviously my favorite worship band of all time bar none.
8:13
They're good friends with you.
8:14
They come out to church of 1122 several times a year to lead worship.
8:17
So we're not exactly the most neutral arbiters of this particular question, but there was
8:22
something I think it was at Red Rocks out in Colorado or Utah or wherever that is Colorado.
8:27
And they were doing a show that included the people from Bethel.
8:32
And there was a lot of kerfuffle created by that because people are like Shane, Shane's
8:36
legit as it gets when it comes to biblical worship and those types of things, but they're
8:40
sharing the stage with these people that lead worship for a heretic and some of their songs
8:46
are heretical.
8:47
And they've said very, very strange borderline, heretical things in public.
8:52
And so a lot of people Ryan included said Shane and Shane should have drawn a line in
8:55
the sand and said, no, we're not going to share the stage with these people.
8:59
Now what I tried to explain and I'm taking a lot of set this up, what I tried to explain
9:04
is look, when you're offered to do a show or a, you know, a big, you know, multi person
9:10
set up a one time event, you know, maybe you're going to an event where there's 30 different
9:15
artists, you can't do a theological breakdown of all these different people to determine
9:21
whether or not you should play the show.
9:22
And I went as far to say that if the most satanic bands that I know of behemoth and slayer and
9:29
guar and all these bands, if they invited Shane and Shane to come out on the road with
9:33
them to open, I would say, heck yeah, I'll buy a ticket when you come through Oklahoma
9:37
City, because it's not about agreeing with everything that everyone else believes on
9:42
the stage.
9:43
It's about what you believe and how you comport yourself.
9:45
So I know that was quite a bit of setup, but just wanted to provide a little bit more context
9:49
for the listener.
9:50
Ready?
9:51
Say go.
9:52
Yeah.
9:53
I'm with you on this one.
9:54
One of the realities of these kinds of things is you often don't know all of the artists
9:56
that are going to be involved as a guy that preaches conferences a lot.
10:00
There are many, many conferences that I would say yes to.
10:04
That's a Christian conference, big umbrella and many, many other people that I share at
10:09
the stage was I would never allow them to preach at my church ever because I don't think
10:16
they believe what the Bible says, but I know they think what they think is okay.
10:21
That's fine.
10:22
But so what am I going to do, like remove my gospel voice from that, that conference
10:27
because it's not pure enough.
10:29
I'm the other way.
10:30
I think I, I applaud the chains for playing there.
10:33
I would love for the chains to really get to know all the Bethel artists in a, in a friendship
10:39
sort of way so that if and when the Bethel artists and songwriters are writing songs that
10:47
are outside of what the Bible says is true and right, that we would have some gospel
10:53
centered guys like the chains that can lean in and be like, Hey, I know what you think
10:57
you were trying to say with this lyric, but it's not true.
11:01
It's not accurate.
11:02
And that in a real Matthew 18 kind of way built in a relationship, we would have some
11:07
really solid gospel artists like the chains helping some other really, really talented
11:11
people that if we give them the benefit of the doubt or just trying to do their best
11:16
at seeing worship songs that glorify God.
11:20
And because of their lack of biblical understanding, sometimes they get outside of where they're
11:23
supposed to be.
11:24
So I am a big tent guy.
11:27
I am pro throwing my hat into those rings, not running from them.
11:32
Now I would make a distinction between who I would invite to lead worship at my church
11:36
or not because they're, I am the one making those decisions.
11:41
And so I'm not trying to cosign with people that are outside of what I think the Bible
11:49
says.
11:50
Hey guys, real quick here recently, I went on a hunting trip with a group of guys and one
11:54
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11:58
And some of you guys don't need to lose a bunch of weight, but you're trying to maximize
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13:28
And so I think this leads to a follow up question you and I've talked about this before.
13:31
And so I don't think we've talked about it on the show necessarily.
13:33
If we have, we'll just repeat it, but should churches sing songs that are made by bands
13:40
that represent churches that have heretical teachings or that are straying away from the
13:44
Bible?
13:45
So then namely, those are like the the Bethels and the Hillsongs and the elevation.
13:51
And because I've got a playlist on my computer.
13:54
So when I'm trying to do deep work, I put two, one of two things on either brown noise
13:58
or white noise, whatever it's called on YouTube or whatever, just whatever one comes up.
14:02
So just like like you're on an airplane.
14:04
And the other one is I've got a playlist of everything Bethel has a they do something
14:09
called without words.
14:11
And so it's like lo-fi versions of their songs without singing because there's a lot
14:15
of research about like if there's lyrical content to a song, it really, really destroys
14:21
your ability to concentrate.
14:22
So it's basically just like low key kind of flowy type songs.
14:27
And there are times when I'm like, man, I know Bethels kind of ratchet, but it's like,
14:31
this is the only thing I know of in this space.
14:32
If Shane and Shane made something like this, I would just use theirs.
14:35
But like should churches just say, you know what, no, we're not going to play any songs
14:40
whatsoever by these types of artists representing these types of churches.
14:46
We play Bethel songs and Hillsong songs and elevation songs.
14:50
So we just evaluate the song in and of itself.
14:55
And then oftentimes we've just changed the lyrics if there's a lyrical problem.
15:01
Because we do want to sing the truth.
15:03
But quite honestly, I mean, it's just some of the best stuff out there.
15:07
It just is.
15:08
There is this thing.
15:09
I think we've talked about this.
15:10
It seems to be the churches that are theologically most aligned with the scriptures are like apparently
15:19
the least artistic, least talented people.
15:22
There's an inverse relationship there.
15:24
So our church is writing a lot of music trying to have some good gospel centered stuff that
15:30
hopefully other churches would find helpful.
15:33
But no, I don't, I mean, I think if you evaluated it that way, you'd have to cut most of the
15:38
songs out of your Bible because the guy that wrote it was a murderer and an adulterer.
15:43
And that's at least on the same level of heresy.
15:46
And so, um, so now we, we sing those songs.
15:49
We just, we evaluate it song by song as opposed to who the artist is.
15:54
So let's go a little bit deeper on that because I know what y'all have done with that before
15:58
because you've straight up showed me certain lyrics like, Hey, here's the lyric of this
16:02
hill song song.
16:03
And here's what we sing at church of 11 22 talk to me a little bit more about that process
16:09
because you do have pastors listening to this right now.
16:10
You do have worship leaders listening to this.
16:12
And it seems anathema as an artist to take another artist's work.
16:17
Like I know tattoo guys that will not do coverups because they're like, I'm not going to touch
16:20
another artist's work.
16:21
That's their work.
16:22
And then other guys are like, I don't care.
16:23
They'll just do it.
16:24
Like to, you know, an artist that's a little bit more, you know, higher in trade openness
16:29
and all that.
16:30
It seems egregious that they would change a lyric or even like a chord progression, like
16:34
that would just seem bad to them.
16:36
But how do y'all handle that as a church?
16:38
Is it you leading that up?
16:40
Is it whoever's leading the worship of all the different campuses leading that up?
16:43
Like, what's the practical?
16:45
This is how we're going to change this particular part of the song.
16:48
Well, I approve all of the songs.
16:51
So if I see a problem there, then I'll tell you that you can change it or I can change
16:55
it or we cannot sing the song.
16:57
And if that offends your artistic sensibilities, here's the thing, Jimmy Cracks corn and I don't
17:02
care because we are primarily shepherds here to serve the sheep.
17:06
We are not here as artists trying to like promote our artistic ability.
17:11
So I don't care.
17:13
We are here to serve, not the other way around.
17:16
So that's what we do.
17:18
And we have incredible, incredibly talented artists.
17:21
And I think the rewrites have been better than the originals anyway.
17:24
So that's just what we do.
17:27
And we don't have to do it very often.
17:28
I mean, quite honestly, I think at some of these places, there's a huge disconnect between
17:36
what their pastors are preaching on the weekends and these artistic subcultures that have been
17:41
created at like a Bethel where they're writing songs.
17:46
So I mean, I get the caution.
17:51
One of the things that has been helpful is, especially in some of the really popular songs,
17:55
if we change the lyric, our people will ask us, but wait a minute, we heard this on the
17:59
radio and it has different words, I mean, the right.
18:02
And that's a great teaching opportunity to say why we changed the words there because
18:06
we wanted to be biblically accurate and not just say something that rhymed or made your
18:12
heart feel good.
18:13
Well, there's two things in addition to that that I find concerning having gone to your
18:17
church several times and experienced worship there.
18:20
I've never seen a banjo appear on stage and I know we happen to like the altar music and
18:25
some of that banjo folk style worship, never seen that making appearance.
18:29
And also I've never heard a metal breakdown or I've never seen a guy get up there all
18:33
aggressive like grab the mic, wrap it around his wrist and get after it.
18:36
Come on, man.
18:37
Let's expand our horizons a little bit here.
18:39
You know, we have had banjos before sometimes we'll do that kind of bluegrass thing.
18:44
I'm actually want to kind of lean us like more country.
18:47
I mean, seriously, we're shock of all shocks.
18:50
I mean, everybody loves country music, you just got to give everybody enough time.
18:53
Eventually everybody's the country fan.
18:55
Okay.
18:56
Well, I'm going to be out there several more times this year.
18:59
So let's just like when you know I'm coming, like let's kind of bring that twang a little
19:02
bit more in there.
19:03
All right.
19:04
Now we've got a question from north of our northern border.
19:06
So this is from Sid, and so it's a kind of a lengthy one, but let's dig in here.
19:11
I'm a firefighter from the Great White North up in Calgary, Alberta, Canada.
19:15
I grew up in a Christian home and heritage, but finally at 50 AM, I don't know what that
19:20
means.
19:21
A Canada thing?
19:22
I don't know.
19:23
We'll just say finally at 50 years old, just realizing what it is to be a disciple
19:28
of Jesus.
19:29
I do have a bit of a theological question for you over and over.
19:32
I hear pastors preach on marriage and continually hear about it being between one man and one
19:38
woman.
19:39
And I totally agree with that theology.
19:40
However, I struggled to answer the question of why in the Old Testament husbands had so
19:44
many wives or even concubines.
19:47
If God created man to have one wife, why was it okay for biblical men in the Old Testament
19:52
to have so many wives and so many concubines?
19:54
I've heard the explanation about increasing the population of the world, et cetera, but
19:59
I don't buy that as I don't feel God would put a limit on his creation.
20:03
I don't feel God would say it's okay to have as many wives and sleep with whoever until
20:07
we have a population of three million.
20:10
After that, it's down to one wife for all men.
20:13
I struggle with explaining any good reasoning, especially to non-Christians.
20:18
Yeah, if you think it was a good idea, then you need to reread your Old Testament.
20:23
It was always only a problem.
20:26
Nowhere does God say, here's what you should do, go get eight wives.
20:29
Every single time it shows up in the scripture, it is evidence of what a terrible idea it
20:35
is.
20:36
There are still today wars being fought over this issue.
20:41
God's idea was one man and one woman.
20:44
Man's idea was like, "Man, we want to do another thing."
20:47
And so nowhere does God command it or even okay it.
20:52
It was outside of God's plan.
20:54
God's prescribed will for human flourishing.
20:59
The greatest evidence is just read about every time it happened.
21:04
It was the downfall of Solomon, it caused Abraham, all kinds of problems, they called
21:10
Isaac, all kinds of problems, just over and over and over.
21:15
It is nothing but a treatise on how terrible of an idea that is over and over and over.
21:22
So Joby, I think that this brings up a really good point that is applicable to this question.
21:27
There are a lot of people that don't really know the difference between description and
21:31
prescription.
21:32
And so they see something described in the Bible and they think that that's a prescription.
21:35
Now that kind of splinters off into, okay, is this message for you, right?
21:41
Or was this written to a certain people group at a certain time in history that it was made
21:46
for them, but it's also for you to understand and learn.
21:49
It's also like, hey, where are you at in this story, like you're not David in the story
21:53
of David and Goliath.
21:54
You're one of the scared soldiers on the side that's just trying to hope to God this works
21:58
out to where you don't actually have to fight today.
22:00
So talk to me a little bit about the difference in where a lot of Christians struggle with
22:04
something that's described in the Bible versus prescribed in the Bible.
22:07
Yeah, there are commands and then there are descriptions of just what had happened.
22:14
And so one of the things you've talked about a lot that's very helpful is it's good to
22:18
know that in the grand narrative of the Bible, there are different genres of literature there.
22:26
And so they're not all on equal footing.
22:28
They're all equally inspired and they're all equally authoritative, but they're not all
22:34
equally applicable.
22:35
So Song of Solomon, things like that is poetry, whereas First and Second Kings is just recording
22:45
history.
22:46
And so it's very helpful to understand what you are reading.
22:51
And so description just means that because this Bible is a historical account of all
22:58
kind of events, it's just describing things that have happened.
23:02
And then how God reacts and rules over those things, prescription is the imperative that
23:09
this is what you ought to do.
23:12
And that's different.
23:13
One, one thing that I've gotten in a habit of really here recently, because obviously
23:18
just in my personality, it's going to be shocked to everybody.
23:21
Sometimes I go off all half cocked, right, I get half a decision made and I just kind
23:24
of launch out and just kind of go forward, I get half a thought in my head, I just say
23:27
it out of my face hole, specifically when it comes to scripture.
23:32
If someone brings up a single scripture and says, you should or you should not do a thing
23:39
based on this one scripture, I like to pause and go, maybe they're right.
23:45
Or maybe I'm right.
23:46
Maybe I'm about to be the one to say you should or shouldn't do something based on this one
23:49
scripture and be like, pause.
23:52
Let's go back to the entire book, not just the, you know, the image that's on Instagram.
23:56
Let's go back to that entire chapter and see what's going on in that chapter.
24:01
And again, they didn't have chapters and verses whenever they wrote this stuff down.
24:04
That was part of a larger narrative.
24:06
And then there's obviously the overarching narrative of scripture as a whole that tells
24:10
the same singular story of God's glory and the sacrifice of his son for the propitiation
24:15
of our sin debt.
24:16
And so that's the other thing I would encourage guys out there to think through when you're
24:20
going into something like this and you're like, gosh, well, slavery's in the Bible.
24:24
And you know, my liberal friends, it's slavery's in the Bible.
24:26
So, you know, so Jesus couldn't rise from the dead because slavery's wrong.
24:30
It's like, no, like, let's talk about that tattoos are the same one.
24:34
Like where they bring out this tattoo and say we shouldn't mark our bodies and all that.
24:37
It's like, what was the context of that particular verse?
24:39
And so you got anything else to say on that before we move on?
24:43
Yeah, when doing Bible study, it's always a good idea to figure out what the original
24:48
author was trying to say to the original intended audience.
24:53
Then you begin to ask it, just ask the question, what does it say about God?
24:56
What does it say about me?
24:58
And where is the gospel in this?
25:00
That will help take you out of the spotlight and it'll help you from proof-testing the
25:08
Bible to try to find some God-inspired backing to do whatever it is that you have pre-decided
25:15
you already want to do.
25:17
Absolutely.
25:18
All right.
25:19
Well, this next question is from me.
25:20
But interestingly, I jotted this question down when you were sitting next to me.
25:23
So last time I was out at Church of 1122 is one of those rare moments where you were
25:27
there on a Thursday, but you weren't preaching from the stage.
25:29
The great Charles Martin was preaching and this was like pre-decided and all that.
25:33
And so you got to just experience church because you were preaching somewhere else on that
25:36
Sunday.
25:37
So you weren't going to preach the Thursday.
25:38
So I thought of this while we were sitting next to one another.
25:41
So you may have already seen this if you're one of those creepy dudes that's like looking
25:44
over at people's text messages while they're making sure that they're not doing crazy stuff
25:47
in church or setting their fantasy football lineup.
25:50
But I had this thought.
25:51
I was like, I have no idea how I would answer this.
25:53
So here it goes.
25:55
Or Adam and even hell.
26:00
Oh, wow, what a question.
26:02
I don't think so because I think God made a covering for their sin.
26:09
And I think it's going to be a little bit of speculation.
26:11
I would have to like dig back through the scriptures and make sure there's not a scripture that
26:16
says one way or the other anyway, you know what I mean?
26:19
Because one of the things I've tried to be careful of when people say, do you think?
26:23
When it's a Bible question, I just want to say, hold on, hold on.
26:26
It doesn't matter what I think.
26:27
Let me see what the Bible says.
26:28
So like right off the top of my mind, I cannot think of a verse that says they are condemned
26:33
to hell nor can I think of a verse that says, and they walk with God in eternity.
26:37
But what I do know is that they did receive the covering of a animal that was blood was
26:44
shed for the covering of sin.
26:47
And the way people in the Old Testament and Eve did hear the proto-evangelion.
26:53
And I will put him to see between your offspring and this enemy and one day he'll bruise his
26:58
head.
26:59
He's going to get his head crushed.
27:00
So there seems to be, this is a little bit of speculation.
27:03
Okay.
27:04
My Bible is over there.
27:05
I'm speculating.
27:08
That is enough to say I see what you're talking about here, God the Father, that you are going
27:13
to make a way for sin to be covered or you're going to sin one for the propitiation of our
27:20
sin.
27:21
Even though they wouldn't know that kind of language and they received the covering.
27:24
So that's how people in the Old Testament got saved.
27:27
Everybody can only be saved through Jesus.
27:29
And so Shane and Shane line is what they knew by faith, we know by name, but we were all
27:35
putting our faith in the lamb that was slain for the forgiveness of sin.
27:40
So based on that, I think you could say that they received salvation.
27:45
And I guess you would say this as well, that the concept of the elect that was in effect,
27:52
even at the creation of the first humans as well, right that before time they were known
27:56
and all that stuff was known that, you know, election and that type of thing didn't come
28:00
along later.
28:01
Is that fair to say?
28:02
Yeah.
28:03
Yeah.
28:04
Yeah.
28:05
Our names, the elect's names are written in the lands book of life before the foundation
28:10
of the world.
28:11
Okay.
28:12
Very good.
28:13
Well, we're going to move on here to another question from a forging table or a forging
28:17
tabular.
28:18
That's Matt Grasmaier.
28:19
So Matt, thanks for this question.
28:20
Who is your favorite pastor to listen to?
28:23
And so I'll say for me, like I kind of have a rotation.
28:26
Sometimes people will fall out, but my normal rotation is you, Matt Chandler, and I picked
28:30
up Jack Hibbs.
28:31
I got Mark Driscoll.
28:32
I'll put in some Steve Lawson here and there some John MacArthur here and there some Bodie
28:36
Bocum here and there and I'll kind of mix some guys in, but even the last time I was in your
28:40
office, whenever I walked in, you were listening to a pastor that, you know, you hadn't listened
28:44
to a whole lot, but you were preaching at one of their churches there and you were like
28:48
into it and you were like, gosh, this guy's really good because you wanted to kind of
28:51
sense like, Hey, I'm going to be on the same stage in a week from now and I want to know
28:54
kind of what the style is and what these people are used to and what to expect.
28:59
And so for you, if you had to pick one, give us the one pastor that you like to listen to,
29:05
but then I want to hear you kind of flow about like for you as a pastor that delivers 40 something
29:10
messages, maybe over 50 a year, depending upon what conferences you're doing, like who do
29:15
you listen to?
29:16
Who do you like to have in the rotation that kind of feeds you?
29:20
Number one is John Piper.
29:22
It's the intensity that he brings.
29:26
I mean, first of all, his biblical knowledge is just, I don't, he's like Rain Man, bro.
29:30
I don't know how that got, it's, it's crazy.
29:33
You know what I mean?
29:35
I love how he obsesses over like the prepositions or something.
29:40
He'll just, he'll do a whole sermon on just because of this conjunction.
29:45
This means that I love, I love the way he does that, but I just love his intensity.
29:49
I mean, that's probably my favorite and I get to preach a conference with him in a couple
29:54
of months or maybe next month.
29:56
Yeah, I'm pretty pumped about that.
29:57
So, so he would be, if I could only listen to one, I would listen to him.
30:02
And then outside of that, a bunch of these guys are just my buddies now.
30:06
And part of the reason I like to listen to him is, I could just call him too.
30:12
Like if I have a question, I can just like call Chandler and be like, Hey man, you said
30:15
this and talk to me about that.
30:17
So that's kind of neat, you know, that I could do that.
30:22
I like to listen to a lot of preaching.
30:24
The person you're talking about is Ben Stewart at Passion City Church in DC.
30:29
If you're not, if you're kind of a preacher junkie, like I am, man, that guy is in a phenomenal
30:34
communicator of the gospel.
30:37
He is doing a series leading up to Easter and he just wrote 50 implications of the resurrection.
30:46
It's incredible.
30:47
So I think it's going to take him three weeks to get through all 50.
30:51
And then he inserted me in the middle to talk about after Tim is empty, anything is possible.
30:55
But it's just 50 theological realities and he's, he's, he's just a great communicator,
31:03
like he's funny.
31:04
He's all the things, you know, and so I like listening to him a little bit.
31:07
One of the things I have to watch because I am a preacher is I am a terrible imitator,
31:12
man.
31:13
I can't hope it.
31:14
Like if I just listen to the guy too much, I'll just start saying their things, you know,
31:19
and I'm not talking about learning something from the, about the Bible from somebody and
31:24
then re preaching it.
31:25
No problem.
31:26
That's what commentaries are.
31:27
So you can do it from people, people use my sermons all the time.
31:30
It bothers me none.
31:31
So any preachers out there, this is your official permission to use any of my sermons.
31:35
I don't care.
31:36
Whatever, whatever glorifies God, that's what we're going to do.
31:39
But my problem is if I listen to a guy that has a unique style, then the next thing I
31:44
know I'm up on stage, just like, if I listen to Chandler too much, I'll start saying, are
31:48
you tracking or you tracking and that's his thing.
31:52
But there are many sermons where I'm saying, are you tracking?
31:54
And so, Piper's the best, I still listen to Chandler.
31:59
I like listening to JD a lot, Alistair Begg, you know, he got in trouble, whatever, man.
32:08
I like to just listen to people that teach the Bible.
32:13
That's it.
32:14
Just teach the Bible.
32:15
I love listening to him, but I also am a sucker for guys that preach with passion.
32:24
Some people teach the Bible, but they don't ever, it's like they're not kind of like reading
32:29
the Wall Street Journal, you know, they're saying everything they're saying is true.
32:33
But I'm attracted to the guys that get a little fiery.
32:36
Yeah.
32:37
And I would just go back to your point about whenever you pick up someone else's cadence
32:40
and language and way of saying things.
32:42
It's my encouragement to everybody, especially because I get asked all the time about people
32:45
that want to start a podcast and I'm like, are you wanting to start a podcast because
32:49
I have one or because Joe Rogan has one or because, you know, name a random podcast for
32:53
that has one?
32:55
Because if you're just going to try to redo my show, bro, like you better have something
32:59
unique to say or a unique way of saying it.
33:01
Because otherwise you're just adding to the noise of the marketplace.
33:04
Like I'm certainly not worried about competition, but it's like, I've heard some other guys
33:07
shows where it's like, they're clearly kind of taking, you know, our style and our way
33:12
of approaching things, but people can sniff out BS so much better now.
33:17
I feel like then even 10 years ago, and I especially with 2020 and everything that went on down
33:21
there, it's just like, we're also skeptical now.
33:24
And if someone starts saying something like, I even text you, I think one of the guys on
33:27
your, your deepen podcast was saying, are you tracking?
33:30
And I text you and I'm like, Hey man, homie needs to stop listening to Chandler so much
33:33
because he said it about 14 times in this episode.
33:36
And then he hasn't said it again, so you probably said something about it.
33:38
But yeah, that's the thing is like, some people have their thing that they do, their way of
33:43
saying it.
33:44
And so like, just don't, don't try to be a copycat.
33:46
Have your voice God gave you a voice, he puts you on this planet for a reason.
33:49
Like, I don't have a booming voice, right?
33:52
So when you go to a place and someone's got a big booming voice, I'm super jealous.
33:55
But guess what?
33:56
That booming voice was meant for them and not meant for me.
33:58
One quick thing before we get you out of here, because I know you're right up against a break.
34:02
Is there an up and coming preacher that most people don't know about because all the names
34:07
that have been mentioned so far in this episode, most guys on this show have heard those names.
34:11
And so, but is there someone that you're aware of?
34:15
They could be in the act 29 network outside of the baby, someone that you just listened
34:18
to one sermon one time and you're like, Hey, there's something here.
34:21
Like this is a young guy that, man, if he keeps going in this direction and doesn't become
34:26
a knucklehead and you know, gets into Jiu Jitsu and has some good, fun habits, this guy could
34:30
be a monster in five to 10 years.
34:32
Yeah.
34:33
A guy named Josh, Josh Howardton, he's at Lake Point Church in Texas.
34:38
He took over for Steve Stroop, Josh is probably like mid 30s, something like that.
34:46
He's the guy.
34:47
Maybe you've seen him.
34:48
He's got one of the best Instagrams ever.
34:51
He will do some kind of theological, sociological commentary on hot takes and hot events, you
34:58
know, but he does it in a really, really biblical way.
35:02
He's a really great preacher and quite honestly, he tells his church, I'm his preacher.
35:10
So part of the way I got to know him is he was using a bunch of stuff for me, but he's
35:15
an incredible communicator.
35:18
He gets society and trends and things like that, like generational habits and he gets
35:27
that better than anybody I know and he's just a monster Bible teacher.
35:32
So that'd be, that'd be a young guy come into you.
35:35
That's at Josh underscore Howardton, apparently he didn't know how Instagram worked before
35:40
he got it.
35:41
But it's at Josh underscore Howardton on Instagram.
35:43
So guys give him a listen, but Joby, we're out of time.
35:46
You got anything else that you need to tell me before we get out of here?
35:50
I like the scars on your face, man.
35:51
It looks like you've been training hard.
35:53
Yeah.
35:54
You know, we've had some rough rolls at the forge here in Edmond and I guess I will before
35:57
I let you go give you one more opportunity to change your vote for favorite forging
36:00
table.
36:01
Are you sticking with the horn?
36:03
I'm sticking with the horn.
36:04
Now, you know, that was just for forging table.
36:07
You'd get best all around, but that's not what you asked me.
36:09
Well, I'll take the all around like who cares about who wins the balance beam.
36:13
You got to win the all around, right?
36:14
That's right.
36:15
Okay.
36:16
Very good, Joby.
36:17
We'll see you next month.
36:18
All right, peace.
36:19
Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode.
36:20
Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five
36:24
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36:25
If you want to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an email
36:28
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36:30
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36:42
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36:47
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36:52
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36:54
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
36:56
Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
37:02
Keep seeking the lion of Judah.