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This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
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I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
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Let's get into it.
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All right guys, we've got a very special guest on the podcast today's name is Al Robertson.
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And so he's the eldest son of Phil and Miss Kay Robertson and Phil is the patriarch of the
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famous duck dynasty clan down there in West Monroe, Louisiana.
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As you guys have known for a while now, I've been friends with them and the family for
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the last several years.
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I go down there every summer and I do the unashamed podcast with Phil, Jason, Al and
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have done a lot of those different things.
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And so wanted to finally get Al on the show to kind of occur to me like, "Why in the world
0:53
have I not talked to Al on the show yet?"
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So I got him on the show and as I talk about it a little bit, there was kind of a tech
0:58
snafu, so he couldn't even like really see me.
1:00
So it was kind of funny.
1:01
So we kind of just, you know, are kicking it and messing around there at the beginning.
1:04
And I'll go ahead and tell y'all if y'all watching this on YouTube or on Rumble, there's
1:07
just a still shot of me because we had catastrophic problems.
1:12
So technology, have I told you before how much I hate technology?
1:15
Because you buy something, you spend all this money, you get it professionally set up and
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then you hit the button and the button doesn't do what it's supposed to do.
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So the camera wasn't showing up so they couldn't even like see me, you couldn't even see me
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on the other side.
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And even the backup camera that's supposed to be taking all the video and the whole
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time, it started, I hit the button, it started recording and then it just decides, "You know
1:34
what?
1:35
Screw Kyle, screw this interview.
1:36
I don't want it to keep going, but you know what, Satan, get behind me, all right?
1:39
We're going to go ahead and release this again.
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I know a whole bunch of you guys watched this on video, but we do have a lot of you on the
1:44
audio side as well.
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So if you're looking to see my beautiful, lovely face on this particular interview, you won't
1:50
be able to see it, but we do have a still shot here for you.
1:53
But we get an update on Phil Robertson.
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So as you guys know, from several months ago, and as I talked about on the show, that Phil,
1:59
his health has kind of taken a turn for the worse with dementia, Alzheimer's, and just
2:03
some different back issues and things like that.
2:05
So we do get an update on Phil and Miss Kay's health and kind of what the prognosis is for
2:10
them.
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But then, you know, as has been true with any time I talk to her, Robertson, you have
2:14
your best laid plans and then you just end up letting it flow where it goes and ends up
2:17
being better.
2:18
We just kind of float on the impact, his father and, you know, his turnaround and him
2:22
following Christ and basically 50 dedicated years of sharing the gospel and the impact
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that that's had on the family on Al specifically, on me specifically, you know, I told a story
2:33
that Al never heard before.
2:34
Al told me some stories that I'd never heard before.
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So certainly it'll be a first time that our audience is going to get to hear that.
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And so we talk about those things and we talk about everything that's changed and how that's
2:44
affected his ministry, but then towards the last part of the conversation, if you know
2:48
anything about Al and his wife Lisa's story, it's a story of infidelity and forgiveness.
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So his wife had had a long term affair early in their marriage.
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And so we talk about him finding out and kind of what he wanted to do, but then we get really,
3:01
really practical.
3:02
And the reason is, is and I kind of tell him, I get told the worst stories, right?
3:06
So that's part of the thing is some of you guys don't know me, but you feel like you
3:08
do because of the show and so you'll send me these emails or these DMs or you're like,
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Hey, this happened.
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I just found this out.
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What do I do?
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And it's kind of one of those hard things for me to kind of help a lot of you guys with
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those things, especially if you're sharing things with me that I haven't myself experienced,
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but he is 25 years past, figuring out how he was going to forgive this woman that had
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hurt him so deeply.
3:28
And him and Lisa now are helping people restore their marriages, point them to Christ.
3:33
And the glory that God is getting from what Satan meant for evil is absolutely outstanding
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and substantial.
3:40
And so we spend a lot of time talking about that.
3:42
And so for any of you guys that are going to be tempted to tune out the latter part of
3:45
this interview, because we know we're going to do another interview down in West Monroe
3:48
later on the summer and we'll get into the duck dynasty stuff and the duck commander
3:51
and some of those things.
3:53
But guys, if it hasn't happened to you, I hope that that that it doesn't.
3:58
I pray that it doesn't, but it might.
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But even if it hasn't happened to you, this is a woman cheating on you, it's going to
4:03
happen to one of the dudes.
4:05
If you've got a foxhole, if you got a group of guys, it's either already happened or it's
4:08
going to happen to one of those guys and being able to understand the mindset of forgiveness
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and to understand how you should comport yourself and how you can lean on God, lean on the promises
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and the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ and laid out the foot of the cross.
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I mean, the impact is going to be, again, substantial for you guys.
4:28
So love this conversation, love that we just kind of weaved in and out a lot of different
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things.
4:33
And it's just always going to talk to my old friend.
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So I'm not going to keep him from you any longer.
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So without further ado, let's get into it.
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Al Robertson, I would give you the normal welcome to the show.
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But what nobody can see there in YouTube land or the guys listening to this, I can see you.
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You can't see me.
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Do you know why?
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Because tech is stupid.
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And so I'm recording in a separate little boxy thing, but you can't see me in your box
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and everything's dumb.
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And why is tech so dumb?
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What's going on Al?
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Well, I'm just laughing.
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We always, Zach will always say on our podcast, can you hear me and Jay says, I can hear you
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the whole world can hear you.
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So that's how, that's how I feel about you.
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Yeah, he loud and clear, even though I can't see your amazing chiseled face, but that's
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right.
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That's right.
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It's my amazing, strong American job.
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But the funny thing about this, there's something old school about this because when I first
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started doing interviews with episode 100, like 600 something episodes ago, no one could
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see me, right?
5:29
And then I also couldn't see them.
5:31
It was audio only.
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And so you didn't know whenever to cut in and all that.
5:34
And so if you've got a funny joke that you need to interject, you were at a supreme disadvantage.
5:39
And so that's just kind of the way that is.
5:40
But the first thing I got to say is, Al, I've known you for several years.
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This might be the most trim and aerodynamic I've ever seen you.
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Mr. Robertson.
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Yeah.
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So what's up with, what's up with that?
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You seem to be, you seem to be on the path.
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Well, it, I wish I could say that, you know, I just finally got to that place where I was
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sick of it and I decided I had to get myself into shape.
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But actually we had a new sponsor on our podcast and so they said, Hey, if you'll, if you'll
6:06
jump on this diet, we'll sponsor your podcast.
6:09
So I was like, all right.
6:10
So as we're getting the gospel out, we'll do, we'll, we'll kill two birds of one stone.
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And so it's a, it's a wonderful group of folks that I've been on a diet about almost three
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months and, and loving it, feeling so much better, obviously lost almost 40 pounds in
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the last three months.
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So I still working on my Kyle Thompson, that you're, you're in that far away place down
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there at the end of my tunnel, uh, to get to, to get to there.
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But I'm working on it.
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So it's very easy.
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Die your beard red, take an enormous amount of steroids, get some tattoos, more tattoos
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other than just the name out on your, on your forearm there.
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I mean, I think we can make this happen for you pretty easy.
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You're right.
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I got to work on my tattoo again.
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There's no doubt about it.
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It's funny.
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Cause so Lisa, you know, decides at 50 that she wants to get a tattoo.
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So I've got a couple of old ones.
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You mentioned one of them.
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Oh, it's on this.
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Well, we're just right here.
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Yeah.
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And they can see it there.
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And so it says owl in kind of a crude prison style tattoo that was, I was 16 years old
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when I got that one.
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And another one here on my arm, uh, that, that, uh, has a heart with the girl I was dating
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at the time.
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You know, 60, you think loves forever, but, uh, apparently not.
7:23
And so I was, it's a Lisa's like, I want to get a tattoo and I was like, babe, I need
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to get rid of some tattoos.
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I don't need any new ones, but she finally taught me into it.
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So we put forgiven, uh, on our, on our hand right here.
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Let's see.
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There it is.
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You can see a bit of it.
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Yeah.
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But, uh, so we, uh, we put that on each, each other's arms.
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Uh, it was really funny cause my daughter, my youngest daughter is like you.
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She's of the, uh, tattoo generation, I call it.
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And, uh, so she took us to her artist and I said, have you had anybody of your, your
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clients?
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She's a young girl that was doing it.
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I said, any of your clients that brought their parents in for tattoos.
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And she said, I think you're the first.
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And she said, although, although I have had many young people say, please put this where
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my parents can't see it.
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And so that happens apparently quite frequently.
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Well, since the last time I've seen you, I've gotten quite a bit more work done that you
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can't see right now.
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So I'm showing it to the camera.
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So I'm showing it to the whole world, but just not to you out, but don't worry.
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I'll see you this summer.
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I've been coming down there once a summer, but that, that's one of the things I was
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going to start out by giving you crap about, uh, the Dodgers basically spending $7 billion
8:27
to win baseball games, but I don't even want to talk about it.
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Okay.
8:30
I'm a fan.
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I'm frustrated at everything.
8:32
We're recording this before opening day and the season's already done for my Cardinals.
8:34
They're already eliminated, but, um, obviously I've been coming down there for for years
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now.
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Basically every summer, usually June, July, I come down there, the West Monroe, we record
8:44
on the podcast, you host me at your house, you know, I just get to kind of hang out in
8:48
your world and then your family and just kind of get a sense of what y'all are doing.
8:51
And obviously the, the patriarchy of y'all's family is Phil Robertson and, you know, it
8:55
was released not that long ago that, uh, he's having some health issues and he's no longer
9:00
doing, uh, the unashamed podcast and everything, but then if you search online, that's it.
9:05
That's, that's all that anybody gets and we don't really have any updates.
9:08
And so if you wouldn't mind given, uh, the, the update to our audience, how's Phil doing?
9:12
What are things looking like for him?
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Well, it's, uh, it kind of continues to, to go in the, in the wrong direction.
9:19
Unfortunately, he, uh, you know, we had started noticing, uh, on the podcast, maybe a year
9:25
and a half ago.
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I don't, I don't know if you noticed it last year.
9:27
Two, two years ago, when I was on, he, he, you could tell he wanted to get in, but he
9:32
just, he couldn't find his spot.
9:34
Yeah.
9:35
And so what was happening was, and in our family, you know, we've seen it with every
9:39
one of his siblings, uh, everyone except for one.
9:42
And then Si, we don't know, dad has said it.
9:44
And by the way, we can laugh about this.
9:46
We do as a family and dad did too, before, but he says that Si was born with dementia.
9:51
Uh, we just got used to it.
9:53
So yeah, we know and, uh, but everybody's had it.
9:56
And so we kind of knew the warning signs to look for.
9:59
In fact, uh, Jan Zach's mom, uh, is the one who led dad to Christ.
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And, uh, she had it as well and unfortunately, uh, passed a, a way at 69.
10:09
But so we kind of began to see the warning signs just couldn't grab words and was having
10:14
trouble keeping up on the podcast and we hung in there as long as we could with him doing
10:18
that because we were trying to keep him, you know, as sharp as he could be, but it just
10:23
got to that place where it was more frustrating for him.
10:26
And so first he stopped being on the podcast, but and now unfortunately, uh, you know, he's
10:31
just got to where he has a really hard time communicating.
10:34
A lot of stuff is just random and kind of, kind of nuts.
10:38
And so, uh, we're in that place where, you know, we're praying, uh, you know, for him
10:43
to be as good as he can be on any given day, some days he's a little bit better than others.
10:47
Uh, but he has a hard time remembering, uh, hardly anything, sometimes us, uh, from time
10:52
to time, so it's a very cruel thing to watch, uh, for somebody so sharp, but our approach
10:58
guy has been we've lived our whole lives for eternal life and for impacting as many people
11:04
as possible.
11:05
And so I was reminded this last Sunday when I was in Kentucky list to a guy preach and
11:10
he read that verse that Paul said, you know, my life is a drink offering and it's poured
11:14
out.
11:15
And I just thought, you know what, that's my dad.
11:17
He poured everything into the 50 years when he became a Christian and it got to the point
11:22
now where he can't do what he used to do, but he's trained all us to do it.
11:25
And so we were a bit of a crossroads with our podcast because we parted ways with Blaze
11:30
at the same time when dad was leaving our podcast and, and we weren't sure, you know,
11:35
we were praying about it.
11:36
What do we want to do?
11:37
Do we want to keep doing this?
11:38
Do we want to keep trying to impact?
11:39
And to be honest with you, it was dad's legacy that says you guys keep going.
11:43
I mean, you know, we're still on a shame.
11:45
We're still laying out exactly what Christ has done in our lives.
11:48
And now we feel almost double the urgency to continue what he started.
11:53
So, you know, not great for him.
11:56
He's having a lot of back issues as well.
11:58
So the prayers, you know, people ask me, what do I pray for?
12:01
And I say, look, we're praying that when his time is there, when, when the alma is ready
12:06
for him to cross over, it'll happen.
12:08
And I'm at the point in my life where sooner rather than later would be better just because
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there's not a lot of positives.
12:15
So that's what I'm praying for, that's what I hope folks are praying for for us and that
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we can just be strong.
12:20
We're kind of rallying the troops as the family to be there, to visit, to bring in
12:24
some food.
12:25
And, you know, hopefully catch those conversations, they're a little more lucid than others.
12:30
Mom is doing better.
12:31
A lot of people have asked about her.
12:32
She's, she's had a lot of issues as well and she's been in rehab for a couple of weeks
12:37
now.
12:38
She's been having some falling issues, but she's doing much, much better.
12:41
And the plan is for her to be able to be with dad because they do much better together.
12:45
Mom's kind of dad's North Star at this point.
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So that's really the one he recognizes every time.
12:52
So we're hoping to get them back together in the same place very, very soon.
12:56
So that's kind of the latest update on the folks.
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Well, we appreciate that update.
13:00
I know a lot of guys in our audience are concerned and very prayerful people.
13:03
And as you were talking now, I was just thinking the phrase that came to mind is just finished
13:07
well.
13:08
And so there's a lot of Christians that they burn hot, you know, for a certain period of
13:11
time, maybe right after they get saved or maybe when they're in their peak earning years or
13:15
whatever the thing is, but then they just don't really finish well.
13:17
I was having a conversation with the guy the other day, his father is not exactly in the
13:21
process of finishing well and it has nothing to do with this health.
13:24
It only has to do with his mindset.
13:26
And you know, he was concerned and he asked me, Kyle, like, what are the easy practical
13:29
things I can do to get him to care?
13:31
And I'm like, there aren't any, like there's nothing you can do to get someone to care.
13:36
You can't, you know, lose weight for somebody else.
13:38
You can't read the Bible for somebody else.
13:40
You can't do things for somebody else.
13:42
So ultimately they have to do it, but this is certainly a different situation, but his
13:47
legacy is secured in terms of the spread of the gospel in terms of the impact he's had
13:51
on people.
13:52
And I am just personally thrilled that the podcast is continuing to go because you guys
13:57
inspired us on our show to do the forging table where me and three other laymen get
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around and, you know, we read the Bible and we study the Bible, you know, one chapter
14:06
at a time, one book at a time, one hour at a time.
14:09
And that has had more of an impact to Al.
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I'll tell you this and then I'll turn it back over to you.
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I was at Y'all's church last time and actually went to church with you, got to see you preach
14:15
for the first time, which was great.
14:16
This was last summer.
14:17
And I had a gentleman come up to me and he says, Hey, are you Kyle with a dawn in life?
14:22
And I was like, yes, I am.
14:23
And I got to, you know, meet him and, you know, talk with him a little bit.
14:26
But then after service, he came up to me with his wife and his children.
14:31
And he said, look, because of your show, which is not true.
14:34
But he said, because of your show, I'm studying the Bible deeper than I ever have.
14:38
I'm doing jujitsu, I've lost a bunch of weight, I've gotten a lot stronger.
14:41
I've done this, that and the other thing.
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And I just look over at his wife and I say, ma'am, is all of this true.
14:45
And with like tears in her eyes, she's like, yes, he's, he's a completely different man.
14:49
And I just kind of told him, I'm like, look, man, I didn't do any of that stuff.
14:53
Like I didn't love your wife as Christ loved the church for you.
14:56
I didn't work out for you.
14:57
I didn't go to jujitsu class for you.
14:59
And guess what?
15:00
The forging table wasn't even technically my idea.
15:02
I stole it from the Robertson's, right?
15:04
Where we just get around the table and it's just normal dudes have a normal biblical
15:07
conversations and modeling that for the rest of humanity.
15:10
I mean, y'all, the impact you all have had, y'all are never even going to know the extent
15:14
of it.
15:15
You know what I mean?
15:16
Yeah, which is, which is what you want.
15:17
Like you said, you know, you know, there are others out there like the gentleman you mentioned.
15:22
And that's why you do it.
15:23
And when we started on a shame podcast, our mindset was, you know, at that time we were
15:28
with Blaze and so we were a conservative political platform.
15:32
And so the mindset was, but we want people to be able to sort of look in from the living
15:38
room of how we grew up, which was studying the Word of God and inspiring each other to
15:42
impact other people.
15:44
And that was from the get go.
15:46
That was what motivated us.
15:48
And that's how we grew up.
15:49
And so that mindset is what we have carried forward.
15:52
And you're right.
15:53
There have been many who have started either a podcast or, you know, a Bible study at their
15:58
church or, you know, a new endeavor to impact people.
16:02
And that's what we're looking for, because, you know, look, we're only here for a certain
16:05
amount of time.
16:07
Jesus has brought the idea of heaven to earth and we want to impact as many people as we
16:11
can during that process.
16:13
So that's why we keep going.
16:15
And that's why we're excited about, you know, you could do what you're doing and so many
16:19
other people because all of us have a different, you know, lane that we impact people in.
16:24
And you do as well.
16:25
So we're super proud to be partners with you and it's always good to have you every year
16:29
on our podcast.
16:30
Well, and I can already feel myself just welling up a little bit with emotion because this
16:34
was such an impactful thing on me, but it was last summer.
16:38
And so I know Phil is, you know, or no, this would have been the year before because we
16:43
did, we did the podcast and then I hung out with your dad afterwards and we recorded another
16:46
podcast just him and me for my show about the release of another one of his books.
16:51
And you know, it was one of those things where I'm like, I could plan.
16:54
I could plan this thing out to the end degree and it's going to be, I might as well just
16:58
crumble it up and throw it away immediately.
16:59
I just need to let flow, let, you know, feel flow is basically what I need to do.
17:03
So that's what we do for about an hour.
17:05
It's great.
17:06
It's wonderful.
17:07
And then as soon as the podcast is over and your dad's not like, you know, a real touchy
17:10
feely guy, he's not a real like, let's sit around and chit chat type of guy like he finishes
17:14
what he's doing and he moves on to the next thing.
17:17
But as soon as the recording stops, he puts his headphones down and he walks around the
17:21
table and he like puts a hand on me says, you're, you're amazing.
17:26
No matter what happens, you just keep going, right?
17:29
Like if you get discouraged or whatever.
17:32
And you know, I had some bombs dropped on my life in the, in the last year or so.
17:35
And I can just go back to that time with Phil Robertson, who didn't need to say a thing
17:38
to me.
17:39
He could have just said, all right.
17:40
I have a good rest of your day.
17:41
Save travels back home.
17:42
But he was just like, you keep going, you keep spreading the good news and you keep doing
17:45
your thing.
17:46
And the year before that, I was about to go speak at Lewisburg prison in Pennsylvania.
17:50
And I remember, you know, y'all talking about your dad going to Angola prison down there
17:54
in Louisiana.
17:56
And I talked to your dad on the phone, like, you know, teach me, like what would you say
18:00
to these men?
18:01
And he's just like, he gave me my line.
18:03
You can be under lock and key, but you can still be free.
18:06
And we had three dozen guys give their lives to Christ that day at Lewisburg prison when
18:10
I went and spoke there.
18:12
And it was the line that your father gave me that had the most impact.
18:15
And so, I mean, again, legacy secured, but yeah, go ahead and hop back in on that.
18:20
I was going to say, and I didn't know that you'd never tell me that until right now about
18:25
the afterwards.
18:26
That's so that makes me feel so good because dad, you know, the thing about it is he was
18:31
always so laser focused.
18:32
You're right.
18:33
He a lot of times he didn't have those extra moments to do, but as he got later in life,
18:39
he understood the value of that of what that would mean to you beyond his ability to say
18:45
those words again.
18:46
And so I love that about him.
18:48
He kind of, he understood that as you went along that, you know, it's important that
18:52
people understand that I'm leaving them something of me to then carry forward, but I was going
18:57
to give you an update on I got a call from the guy who is our prison guy at Angola.
19:03
And the last time we spoke there, which by the way, let me say this first, I just jumped
19:08
to my, my dad out of nowhere before he got like he is now, he told me that he wanted
19:15
me to reach out to Angola and because Franklin Graham told dad that Angola prison had made
19:23
a casket for Billy Graham.
19:25
He had the he back in the day, they used to make a lot of caskets and, you know, as part
19:30
of their work program inside the prison.
19:32
And that's what he wanted to be buried in.
19:35
And so in Franklin had told dad, he said, and so I got, I've ordered one and again,
19:39
have one for Jane and I for when we pass on.
19:42
He said, just something about the idea of people being set free, you know, on the idea
19:45
that we can bring that.
19:46
And so dad asked me to, to get him a casket made in Angola.
19:52
And so it took me a little while to, you know, to reach the right people and they were more
19:56
than glad to do it.
19:58
It's not something to do for everybody, obviously, but, you know, that they did it for dad because
20:02
the impact.
20:03
And so it's made, I just have to figure out a way to get it, you know, from Angola up
20:06
to here, even though we're not needing it right away.
20:09
I just love that he was still remembering that.
20:11
I can't believe he remembered it, to be honest with you, he did.
20:15
But this guy from inside the prison called us that works inside for us, CR inside.
20:21
And he told me, he said, you know, last time your dad was there, they had piped his message.
20:25
We were in a group of about maybe 800 guys in one of the camps and it was tremendous.
20:31
It was the worship was amazing.
20:33
And so a lot of people had come to Christ in that moment, but he said they had piped us
20:37
all over the prison, including into death row and that there were five prisoners that
20:43
had given their lives to Christ on death row.
20:46
So I mean, you know, literally, this is like, those words you spoke earlier, dad spoke
20:50
were true for these guys.
20:52
And then one of those guys, one of those five was up for execution.
20:56
I don't know if it's happened or not yet, but it was up this year and was going to happen.
21:01
And he was calling me to tell me this guy is saved and he's the son of God now.
21:07
And it came, it happened because you guys came into Angola and spoke truth.
21:11
And so, you know, just, it warned me again to say, why you do what you do, why you do
21:16
the same thing.
21:17
And it's just, I mean, man, all glory to God, when you get an opportunity, literally to
21:21
someone, you know, these are the guys that were in the vineyard in the last hour, they
21:26
got the same coin as the other guys, you know, the same payment.
21:30
And it's like, hey, as long as you get it figured out, that's, that's what you do, you
21:34
know, and we're telling the guy story, you know, and so that's the impact of him in his
21:39
life as well.
21:40
Hey, guys, real quick, as you've heard me describe before, I am incredibly conservative
21:45
about the supplements that I take.
21:46
I spent years being terrified of putting different products in my body because I didn't know
21:51
what they were made with or if it was going to be kind of fly by night companies using
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21:56
So I've always wanted to partner with an American company that only uses the highest quality
22:02
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22:03
And that's why I want to remind you that we are partnered with Jocko Fuel.
22:06
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22:10
So what are some of my favorite products that they make?
22:13
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22:21
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22:22
I finally decided what my favorite was and that's pink lemonade.
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But they also have the best tasting greens powder on the market.
22:30
I prefer the peach flavor myself.
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They also make pre-workout and ready to drink protein.
22:35
So I actually mix the ready to drink protein in my boy's milk and they love it.
22:39
They're constantly like dad have banana milk, banana milk.
22:41
So we got to hook that up in the Thompson household.
22:44
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22:51
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23:14
One thing about this out, correct posture is also important.
23:20
So one thing that I try to do is because I have a weird job, you know, I get up on stage
23:24
with a microphone attached to my face.
23:25
And so I'm kind of the center of attention for an hour, but before I go speak, I typically
23:29
mix and mingle around with the people that are there that I'm speaking with just to kind
23:33
of get a sense of the room to kind of let people know, Hey, I'm just a normal guy.
23:36
Like if they ask me questions about me, I turn around and ask them, you know, questions
23:39
about them and their life and their family and that type of stuff.
23:43
But I did the same thing at Lewisburg prison, which I wasn't supposed to do.
23:47
The guards were not thrilled that I did that with the guys ever coming in because it was
23:51
not compelled attendance, whoever wanted to show up could show up and I'm supposed to
23:54
stand there in the front as they bring the guys in and I just, you know, I kind of made
23:58
up my own rules.
23:59
It's kind of my thing.
24:00
And I just start like mixing and mingling and talking to the guys and shaking their hands
24:03
and the whole time out, I know I'm shaking hands with guys that have taken human life
24:07
with those hands that have held women and potentially children down and abused them with
24:13
those hands.
24:14
Like all the things, right?
24:15
I'm aware of that, but the first words out of my mouth were guys, we, you've broken the
24:22
laws of man.
24:24
That's why you're here.
24:25
And that's why I get to leave, right?
24:27
Whenever all this is done, but all of us in this room have broken the laws of God.
24:32
So in that way, we are brothers.
24:34
So can we dispense with all of the I'm somehow different than you stuff before we get going
24:39
and you want to talk about wide eyes?
24:41
I mean, these guys, at that point, they hadn't had someone come speak at Lewisburg prison
24:45
for years.
24:46
These men have basically been forgotten, right?
24:49
And so here I am, the first guy that they've seen as a guest come in and talk to him, and
24:52
I'm sitting there wearing a staff vest being like, Hey, we're the same thing.
24:56
And I did the same thing as I was walking around.
24:58
But a lot of that is a downstream benefit of your dad, basically, look at his life.
25:05
Look at where his life could have gone had Christ not said, okay, that's enough, Phil.
25:09
Like, you know, we're changing the entire trajectory of your life and he just picked
25:12
him up out of the muck, you know?
25:14
Yeah.
25:15
And I think dad related to that as, you know, from his own life and anybody that's seen
25:20
the blind understands what it's like to be locked up in your own prison and yet to be
25:27
released by Christ, because you finally submit and give in.
25:31
And so, and I'm like you, God, I'll try to do the exact same thing with folks.
25:35
We'll go somewhere and they'll say, now, do you guys want to just like be in a room and
25:38
then come out and speak?
25:39
I'm like, Oh, no, no, I want to be out there with the, with the folks.
25:42
I like to press the flash, you know, and meet people and like you because I want them to
25:48
know we're coming from, at least in our very transparent, in fact, it's interesting.
25:52
I didn't, I wasn't necessarily a big law breaker of human law myself when I was a
25:58
prodigal son, but I was in a situation in New Orleans when I was 18 years old where someone
26:04
attacked me, but I, you know, I was having an affair with his wife.
26:09
And so like I was breaking all of man's law in terms of doing the right thing by another
26:14
human being as well as what God wanted me to do.
26:17
And because of that, this guy was ready to, you know, in my life, in this situation, and
26:22
it was a police officer that was there to handle the situation for the city of New Orleans.
26:28
That is the one that turned me around.
26:30
I mean, he, he took, he saw that verse that says, make the most of every opportunity.
26:35
He saw that as a reality.
26:37
And so when he sat down next to me after everybody else had left and had a conversation
26:42
with me, you know, I mean, anybody could have said anything at that moment and I was finally
26:47
ready because I was broken and it reminds me so much of people in jail or just coming
26:51
out, which we deal with a lot of CR guys that are right out of jail, but they don't want
26:55
to go back.
26:56
They don't want to continue this life and being addicted to drugs and all the things that have
27:00
wrecked and ruined every relationship they've ever had.
27:03
So when those opportunities are there for people, it's, it's people like us that have
27:07
to be willing to say, we're ready to tell you what changed us.
27:11
And it's exactly what happened to me and I mean, I literally left New Orleans two weeks
27:15
later and headed home and have never looked back, but I'll never forget that, that, you
27:20
know, peace officer in that case, he really was because he brought peace to me.
27:24
And look, I don't know his name.
27:25
I couldn't, I couldn't pick him out of a lineup, but I can tell you this when we cross over
27:30
the other side, I will find that man.
27:32
And I will say that conversation you had turned me around.
27:35
If he doesn't already know it, he will when we get to the other side.
27:39
Man, there, there's so many good stories that come out of this.
27:42
And I guess the through point with all of this hours, you were the eldest son of Phil
27:45
in this case.
27:46
And so, uh, Jason got to experience a little bit of that, but Willie and Jeff didn't really
27:50
get to experience as much of, uh, your dad before Christ.
27:54
But I mean, you were there, like you were, you were of age, you have the memories from
27:59
that time.
28:00
And again, yeah, guys, if you haven't seen the blind at this point, it's, you know, we've
28:03
talked about on the show quite a bit.
28:05
It's been out there.
28:06
It's a, you know, dramatized version of that, that life, but it's also in a way, it's sanitized
28:10
version because the, the things that were going on were worse than what, you know, y'all could
28:13
certainly show on a family friendly movie, but give us a little bit of a, I guess a 30,000
28:19
foot overview of what it was like growing up, uh, in that household and how that personally
28:24
affected you and your faith, because as you, as you know out, cause you've been a ministry
28:28
for a long time now, there are guys that can't fathom a good heavenly father because their
28:35
earthly father is such a, you know, heaping pile of garbage.
28:38
You know what I mean?
28:39
No doubt.
28:40
And, uh, in fact, it's, uh, ironic that we're talking about this because we, this came up
28:43
in the last podcast because that is in town, uh, this week.
28:47
And so he was actually in studio.
28:49
And so we, with the movie came up and so we were talking about it and Jase was saying,
28:53
you know, he had saw the first cut.
28:55
I only saw the finished cut and he was like, he was telling say, Oh, this is the, I mean,
28:59
this is rated R. This, this is never going to fly.
29:02
You know, and so they had to trim it.
29:03
As you said, to get it into that sort of PG 13 category, because we grew up in a rated
29:09
R life and, uh, you know, that was the reality.
29:12
And we really couldn't even show it all for what, for what, as it really was, it was that
29:17
bad and worse.
29:18
And so you're right.
29:19
I grew up with that.
29:21
I saw it, it, it impacted me probably more than I realized at the time and by the way,
29:26
this is what happens when you lead a life that's, you know, outside of Christ, you,
29:30
you not only impact yourself and every relationship and including your kids, because you know,
29:35
they then have to deal with that at some point in their own lives.
29:38
And so it's exactly what happened to me, but there was always a providential hand that
29:43
was there for me.
29:44
And it was amazing to look back and see.
29:45
I mean, there was a preacher just up the street who he and his wife, she was blind.
29:50
And they were older, you know, and, and they, they still managed to take me, even though
29:54
I was in the worst thing, I had this little respite, you know, two or three times a week
29:59
where I got out of that place and into some place that talked about God and, you know,
30:04
looking back on it, it was kind of a legalistic kind of setting, a place that I would probably
30:08
be in there trying to get them to understand grace now.
30:10
But you know, when you were a kid in a terrible situation, it was a place of peace and safety
30:15
and I didn't have to worry about gun fights and, you know, people having fistic cuts right
30:19
in front of me.
30:20
So, you know, all those things I look back and see were just these little bit, these
30:24
road signs along the way.
30:27
And I think all that has led me to a place where I can talk to anyone.
30:31
I mean, it's just, it's just that, that which God has blessed me with, I want to bless
30:35
other people with.
30:36
And so when people come in and talk to Lisa, and it happens every time, I mean, not just
30:40
we're in front of audiences, but we're home.
30:42
I mean, there's always somebody that's coming to my house that we're meeting with the, hey,
30:46
we're going to run down with me to the church that has a terrible story of a terrible situation.
30:52
And the reason they call us is because they know they won't be judged and they know they
30:57
won't be rejected.
30:58
I mean, it's an open message because it's an open door.
31:01
And I think sometimes you have to live through some things to be that kind of person.
31:06
And look, again, everybody has their lanes and has their way of impact, but that's just
31:09
what God did in our situation.
31:12
And I think, you know, when I came back to Christ at 18, I was able to then take all
31:17
those things of my life and just, and be able to just totally give them over to God.
31:21
And, you know, I've never looked back in terms of ministering to people.
31:25
Well, I think you're on to something here because I remember us speaking to a guy previously.
31:29
And I think I've talked about this on the show, but this was a guy that was saved at
31:33
a young age.
31:34
And I think his dad was a pastor and kind of one of those situations.
31:37
And here he is in his 50s and he's kind of lamenting his upbringing and like, Hey, you
31:41
know, I don't know that I've had a huge impacts.
31:43
I don't have a great story.
31:44
I don't have a whatever.
31:46
And I remember that he had a couple of granddaughters and I said, Hey, do you want your granddaughters
31:51
to have an exciting testimony or a boring one?
31:54
And his eyes got his biggest saucers and he was like, Oh my gosh, I want them to have
31:59
boring testimonies.
32:00
And I'm like, yeah, why?
32:01
Because for little girls to have, you know, exciting testimonies, that means they've made
32:05
some bad decisions or some really bad evil things have happened to them.
32:10
But if you go through that fire, at some point, you're probably going to realize that you
32:14
weren't in the valley of the shadow of death alone.
32:17
That's the thing about that Psalm is he's with you in the valley.
32:21
It's not that he allows you to skip the valley.
32:23
He teleports you out of the valley.
32:25
No, he's there with you.
32:26
And so if he's allowing you to be exposed to this negativity, to this darkness, to this,
32:31
you know, tribulation, you have to assume that he's bringing you through it for a reason.
32:36
And so as you just elucidated there, Al, part of your reason is you can talk to anybody.
32:42
You're not this kid that had this insulated lifestyle where you were never exposed to
32:45
negativity and he didn't smoke, you didn't drink, you didn't, you know, didn't do anything
32:49
bad.
32:50
It was just one of those things where you can speak the language of somebody and kind of
32:54
come their direction a little bit more, makes you a better pastor overall.
32:57
No doubt.
32:58
And I so agree with what you just said because like I've raised my kids and my grandkids
33:03
with that idea of mine.
33:05
But there's no way that ma'am and I want you to repeat our mistakes.
33:09
That's why we're open and willing to tell you about it.
33:12
Learn from our mistakes instead of making your own.
33:14
And we don't, you know, nobody's perfect, but you'd rather not have just, you know, these
33:18
baggage, these huge suitcases full of junk where, you know, you don't have to do that.
33:23
I mean, Christ love can carry you all the way through.
33:26
You don't have to have that, you know, relationship, but you still have to have that same wonder
33:29
and all.
33:30
But you know, it's amazing.
33:31
I'll tell you about this, so we did a marriage refresh for our church a few weeks ago when
33:36
we do it every year.
33:38
And so now it's gotten so big, partly because Elise and I are around the country.
33:42
So a lot of people come in that aren't even from our church, which we've welcomed that.
33:45
So we have two weekends that we rent this facility and it's full of couples and it's
33:50
just an amazing time.
33:51
But Elise and I could only be there for one.
33:54
But the year before last year, this young man from Arkansas and his wife were at the
33:58
retreat and his wife comes in like after the first day and she's like telling me a little
34:03
bit about her husband.
34:04
So I'm looking around, but he's not there, which, you know, everybody there is a couple.
34:09
And so she's telling me, you know, that they had just had the most amazing thing.
34:13
The reason they were there was because her husband had been to see the blind and that
34:18
it had such a huge impact on him.
34:20
He's committed his life fully to Christ and their marriage she felt like was now finally
34:25
about to take off.
34:26
And this had all been just like a month.
34:27
In fact, we showed the movie at the refresh because it had just come out.
34:31
So it was a year ago.
34:32
So I was like, well, where is he?
34:35
Is he with you?
34:36
And she said, yeah, he's outside.
34:38
He's too embarrassed to come in and tell you this.
34:39
He wanted me to do it first.
34:40
I said, well, tell him to come in.
34:42
He doesn't have to be embarrassed.
34:43
And so and their mentor couple was kind of standing over in the corner, you know, watching
34:47
because they're the they're the ones that got them to come.
34:50
And so he brings it.
34:51
She goes out.
34:52
He comes in.
34:53
He's very humble.
34:54
And he sits down.
34:55
He says, you know, I really don't know where to start.
34:56
We'll just tell me a little bit about your story and he does.
34:58
So it was amazing.
34:59
It was, you know, he told me the movie and he said, you know, it impacted me so strongly
35:04
because it was everything where I was that I couldn't even speak to my wife driving home
35:09
from the theater.
35:10
And of course, she had gotten him to go because she knew he was a big fan of the show, but
35:14
he had no idea, you know, what was going to happen in that movie theater to show you how
35:18
the gospel has a way of impacting through all these different mediums, you know, to impact
35:24
people.
35:25
And so, you know, he gets home and he just literally goes to his knees and so it starts
35:29
their process so fast forward to this year.
35:32
And again, I show up at this point, Lisa and I can't be a part of the planning of it.
35:36
So I'm just like, tell me when I'm speaking and I'll be there.
35:39
We show up with this couple is given their testimony.
35:42
So we're a year removed from when I met them last year and they were one of our testimony
35:46
couples and watching that young man stand up there and talk about how and he had never
35:52
spoken publicly about his addiction to porn and talking about how that and many other
35:58
things had now been unleashed and broken apart because of his commitment to Christ and what
36:04
he was willing to do.
36:05
And by the way, Kyle, he wanted to start a podcast and so afterwards he and I were having
36:08
this whole conversation about hooking him up with our guys to be able to start his own
36:12
podcast because he has a story to share and it's the story of Jesus and it just moved
36:18
me.
36:19
He got back home to tell dad and you know, he was having a good day and had some awareness
36:24
and I said, Dad, you mean, when we talked about doing this movie, I said, let me tell
36:27
about this young man that I just met and now this is what he's doing.
36:31
He's on fire for Christ and and his wife, I love this, his wife looked at him when he
36:36
talked about the porn thing and his whole, his whole like countless, he got real tense
36:42
and he pulled his hat down lower on his eyes when he was talking and he was like, he was
36:46
stepping over that last thing to like be open about something that had gripped his life
36:51
for most of his life and his wife looked at him and said, amazing thing, she said, he's
36:55
never said that in public and she looked at him, she said, I'm so proud of you.
36:59
And I was just in tears, you know, because I was like, not only this guy had like the
37:03
drinking and all the stuff that was connected to dad, but like everything in his life, he
37:07
was finally willing to give to Christ and say, this has a hold on me no longer.
37:13
And so it was just a such a moment for me to witness and I was just so proud for, you
37:19
know, the fact that God has worked through people's lives and my family and especially
37:23
mom and dad just see that moment, you know, and so he texts me from time to time now.
37:28
That's been a couple months ago and says, Hey, I'm up and running, we're about to get our
37:31
podcast going.
37:32
So it's just like you were saying, I mean, it's just that's what you do is one beggar
37:36
at a time.
37:37
If it hits a bigger group, that's awesome.
37:39
But you know what, just if one guy is the impact for me.
37:44
Well, and the thing is, I remember before the movie was out, I don't know how I was privy
37:48
to this conversation.
37:49
Maybe while I was down there, at different points, your dad was like, not really feeling
37:53
this whole movie idea because, you know, it's one thing when I think I remember when y'all
37:58
did a family screening, you know, your dad sitting there, we know the ending of the story,
38:03
right?
38:04
Everyone in there kind of knows where the where everything is now, but you're having
38:07
to watch, you know, a character playing you and just the vitriol and the violence and
38:14
the negativity and the sinfulness.
38:16
And it kind of overwhelmed him a little bit like, you know, my goodness, like, yeah, it's
38:21
it's great to be redeemed.
38:22
But when you're reminded of the muck and the mire and what you drug your family through,
38:28
it's so substantial.
38:29
But his guiding light was like, man, if people can be saved because this movie helped the
38:35
Holy Spirit move or not that the Holy Spirit needs help, guys don't don't send me any theological
38:39
emails.
38:40
But like, that's the thing is like, this is a conduit through which the Holy Spirit can
38:44
do its work, you know?
38:45
Yeah.
38:46
And you're exactly right.
38:47
That's why he was he was hesitant and about the whole idea.
38:51
And the reason why he was just very honest to me looked at me because they kind of send
38:55
me and I'm the Phil West were, you know, and so they send me in to talk to him and just
38:58
to kind of see if he he's willing to do this and he said, I mean, would you want the worst
39:03
parts of your life on a movie screen?
39:05
I said, you know, dad, not really.
39:06
I mean, I get where you are.
39:08
And if they took that four year period of my life where I was at my worst, I mean, that
39:12
would be very embarrassing.
39:14
But I said, dad, we talk about this all the time.
39:17
You've been talking about it for at this time, almost 50 years.
39:21
And you know, I'm telling you, it's going to have an impact.
39:24
He said, do you think it'll lead some to Christ?
39:25
I said, no, I don't think it.
39:26
I know it will lead some to Christ.
39:29
And so he was like, well, I'm in.
39:30
And so that really is what led him to make that called for us to do it.
39:35
But like I said, it's just, it's just another medium by which to tell a story.
39:40
And you mentioned that about knowing the end.
39:41
It's like the Titanic.
39:42
I mean, why do they make a gazillion dollars off another movie about the Titanic?
39:46
You already know that things sinks at the end, but it's some stories are so compelling.
39:52
You're willing to watch it, even though you know how it's going to end.
39:55
And so that's exactly, I think what happens with the blind.
39:58
I got to tell you, I don't know why I hate to ruin this for people that hadn't seen it.
40:02
But at the end, you know, when the screen goes to black, and I had not seen the movie
40:07
the first time we watched it.
40:08
So I'm in a theater like for the screening you mentioned.
40:11
And when all of a sudden dad's current voice starts speaking and then he pops on screen,
40:16
I mean, a chill came over me that, I mean, it was a may, I get chill now just thinking
40:23
about it just because I wasn't expecting it.
40:25
I didn't know that I knew we had done an interview, but I didn't, I thought it was just
40:28
for like take out takes or whatever.
40:30
So I didn't know it was actually going to be part of the film where he's able to then
40:34
say, you know, hey, this is, this is why you saw this movie.
40:38
And so that it was so, and that was Jason's idea, by the way, who, who said we need to
40:43
have Phil on there like current dad talking and, and they, and they did it.
40:48
And I thought it just capped it so beautifully because, you know, it just, it really speaks
40:52
to why we did this.
40:54
And that felt much better about it, knowing that he could directly link his life to the
40:58
Gospel of Christ.
40:59
Well, and that's, that's what ministry is ministry is not about providing a sanitized
41:04
version of your life and you're bringing to prove something to somebody else.
41:09
And you know, you get these, I, these people where you just wonder where the theology comes
41:12
from.
41:13
It certainly doesn't come from deep Bible study, but they think, man, since I became a Christian,
41:17
things are just worse.
41:18
Like I have less money, I have more trouble with my family, I have more trouble with my
41:21
wife.
41:22
I have all this strife.
41:23
All the time, especially guys that, you know, I coach, we have a coaching program called
41:27
Dominion that we accept a certain number of guys per year that I, I do basically one on
41:32
one coaching with them.
41:34
And I tell these guys when they sign up, I was like, dude, you just, you just put a target
41:38
on your back.
41:39
Okay.
41:40
Because you were on the sidelines, you were sitting on the couch and Satan doesn't have
41:43
to really worry about guys like that.
41:44
That's the easiest thing for Satan to do is to get you to take yourself out of the game.
41:48
But now it's like, no, I'm going to get serious about spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
41:52
I'm going to get serious about pushing back darkness.
41:54
Now all of a sudden these guys are like, yeah, man, I'm having problems in my business and
41:58
I'm having employee issues.
41:59
And gosh, my kids are going crazy and all that.
42:01
I'm like, brother, tell me something that's going to shock me because none of that does.
42:05
Yeah.
42:06
That's exactly right.
42:07
In fact, we were just doing a marriage event in Kentucky, as I mentioned earlier, and one
42:12
of those, one of the things that I do is I like to talk to men about Job 31, which is
42:18
an amazing chapter where Job is defending his character because he said he had the worst
42:22
support group in the history of support groups.
42:24
Oh my gosh.
42:25
I mean, the three dopey friends who came along supposedly to help just like pals on this
42:30
guy gives all these speeches about how bad he is.
42:34
And at the end of it, he's like, man, I don't know what to do because here's my life.
42:38
And so he lays that out.
42:39
And so I love that chapter.
42:41
Everybody knows the first verse, you know, I made a covenant with my eyes not to look
42:44
less for the girl because, you know, we understand porn and it's addiction rate on men.
42:50
But the rest of that chapter, you're missing so much more good stuff in there.
42:53
And so I go through that chapter with guys in a marriage context and Lisa does Proverbs
42:59
31.
43:00
But what I love about it is Job was a guy who was engaged in the game.
43:05
As you just said, he wasn't a guy sitting on the sidelines.
43:08
And only because he was engaged Satan literally tried to knock the daylights out of him and
43:15
took so much from him and the almighty was in theater to watch it and to see, but he had
43:22
so much trust in Job that he would do the right thing.
43:25
And so when I think about him like being there for us in the game, like saying, no, if you
43:30
get it, look, it's not going to be easy.
43:31
It's going to be rough.
43:32
But in your life, this meaningful doesn't have an attachment to be a difficult.
43:38
I mean, every good thing I've ever done in the car, I'm in the middle of this diet right
43:41
now.
43:42
Is it easy?
43:43
No way.
43:44
And that's just a little thing.
43:45
But it's like you have to be committed.
43:46
You have to be willing to go to the mat for whatever you're doing.
43:49
And when it comes to spiritual life, it's the exact same way.
43:52
Well, so this woman do I'm going to just like with all the times I've talked to your dad,
43:57
I'm just going to blow up my plan because I was going to say, Hey, let's talk about,
43:59
you know, how you got into ministry and duck dynasty and coming back to the family business
44:02
and all that's fine.
44:03
But guess what?
44:04
This is what we're going to do.
44:05
This summer when I come up there, you know, we'll do our unashamed thing, but then you
44:09
and I will have another little sit down and we can talk about the duck dynasty, we talk
44:12
about all this stuff.
44:13
So all you guys can get your red meat.
44:14
But I want to keep this ministry through point going because there are a lot of really
44:20
cool things about what I do, how the guys I get to meet, the people that I get to give
44:27
exposure to or get exposure from, it's a great thing.
44:31
But one of the less fortunate things, or I guess one of the heavier birds that I have
44:35
to carry is when guys share things with me that they haven't shared with anybody else,
44:40
guys that have experienced abuse, guys that have been abusers, guys that have had horrible
44:44
things happen to them, guys that have done horrible things.
44:47
And you know, I get these questions out that I'm not qualified to answer and I don't even
44:50
pretend to be qualified to answer.
44:52
And I don't want to give them the church answer or pray about it.
44:55
But sometimes that's all we're left with.
44:57
And you know, that's not nothing.
44:59
But obviously there's a large part of your story where inside of your marriage with you
45:05
and Lisa, there was infidelity, but then there was this long road to forgiveness.
45:09
And because you and Lisa walked through this road of this muck, you're able to stand on
45:15
stage and help people with their marriages and get them reset and put them on a pathway
45:20
that still leads them and guides them to the loving arms of Christ, if you will.
45:25
And so that's one of the things out in the last year, year and a half.
45:29
I've been around a bunch of guys who never thought it would happen to them.
45:33
But here they are.
45:34
They found the text messages or they caught their wife in the act or something like that.
45:38
And that's we never hear about that.
45:40
We never hear about the gal being the one perpetrating the affair.
45:44
It's always the guy.
45:45
It's always the guy's a piece of garbage.
45:46
How dare he do this?
45:47
What a poor lady.
45:49
And the problem is, is Al, my audience is a bunch of tough guys, right?
45:52
And a lot of tough guys like these guys are former law enforcement or military or current
45:57
law enforcement and military.
45:58
These are fighters.
45:59
These are, these are dudes that, you know, are on their way to the job site most days.
46:02
These guys, you know, don't work in an air condition office all the time and that's a
46:05
lot of guys in this audience.
46:06
So if something like that happens to them, guess what they turn to?
46:10
Nothing positive.
46:11
It's usually violence, retribution, getting their own justice, alcohol pills, or they
46:18
decide one day that's it and they just eat a bullet.
46:20
And so I wanted to kind of shift the conversation to that because that is, that is one of the,
46:26
the cornerstones of the Robertson ministry is what you and your wife have been able to
46:31
do for other people.
46:32
So let's, let's get our way into that and kind of rip off the band aid and talk about
46:36
that.
46:37
Cause I think it'll be a benefit to a lot of guys on our audience.
46:39
Well, two things that I'm so glad you brought it up because this is a huge part of what
46:43
we talk about in our time together with couples.
46:47
Again, we're just shotgunning with a group of people and you don't know, but you know,
46:51
in an every audience, there are people struggling just with what you said.
46:54
And so two things, one, I, I, I saw this modeled from my mom because in my family, dad was
47:01
that person.
47:03
And you know, we wound up having a, found a sister or she found us, you know, at 44 years
47:08
old because of this period of his life.
47:10
And it's not like we didn't know there was infidelity, but you know, they never talked
47:14
about it.
47:15
It's a part of their lives, but then all of a sudden when your sister shows up and she's
47:19
44, you have to look back and say, okay, here we go.
47:23
My mom, my mom, when she found that out said these words, she looked at dad and literally
47:28
cause Lisa and I were there in the moment.
47:31
So you're reading a letter that says, I think I'm your daughter.
47:33
And then I had talked to her.
47:35
And so I knew already before the blood test that this is our sister.
47:40
And mom looks at that and says, you know, I've always wanted a daughter for, you know,
47:45
since we've been married and now it's taken me 44 years to get one.
47:49
And that, you know, it's just, it was, it was amazing statement.
47:52
But what it told me was, is I was sitting there, I teared up because I thought, you
47:56
know what, she forgave him 44 years ago, or she wouldn't be able to make that statement
48:01
all these years later, because all of a sudden this was fixing to be, you know, a whole new
48:06
thing for our life.
48:07
We're well known.
48:08
We've got to figure out how we're going to tell the world about this.
48:10
I mean, like, this wasn't like it was a small moment.
48:13
And yet her first instinct was I've got a daughter now, even though it wasn't her daughter.
48:19
And so I looked at that and I thought, Oh man, what a validation for my own life.
48:23
And so in our case, in my case, we were 15 years into our marriage and, you know, Lisa
48:30
had had been having an affair for 14 months.
48:33
So this is not like, so this was 14 months of me thinking I was completely insane.
48:39
Because as you, as you, as you mind this audience listening to you knows, when you're going
48:43
through this and you know, something's not right, and you're trying to get to truth and
48:46
you're in your gut, you think you know what it is.
48:49
But the last thing you want to do is say, this is what it is.
48:53
Because if that happens, then we got to deal with this.
48:55
So you're hoping all the time is something else that it's not that.
48:59
And then when it turns out that it is, it's just like it turns your whole world upside
49:03
down.
49:04
And certainly that's what happened for me.
49:06
And in my case, Lisa had had a sort of an emotional affair 10 years earlier.
49:11
And so this was not the first time that it happened in our marriage.
49:14
And so therefore, because of that, all of my Christian friends and all my spiritual,
49:19
you know, network around me was like, well, you know, oh, she's probably not going to
49:23
change.
49:24
There's just something wrong with her, you know, and again, they're hurting for me.
49:27
And so they're trying to just help me get through a moment.
49:29
But they're basically saying you need to cut her loose.
49:32
The thing about it was, Kyle, I knew deep down, I love this woman.
49:37
I didn't want this to be the end, but I knew it wasn't up to me.
49:40
Like I couldn't share her, you know, we can't share our wives with anybody else.
49:45
I mean, we're committed to 100% faithful because that's what God says He is to us.
49:49
So I'm convinced that's why we can't share our spouses with someone else.
49:52
I mean, it's just goes against everything in it.
49:55
So I knew I couldn't do that.
49:56
So the part of her deciding she wanted to be faithful to God and faithful to me was up
50:00
to her.
50:01
But then it quickly shifted to me within a few months of us being separated that, well,
50:08
can I possibly go forward?
50:10
Because how do I do this?
50:12
I mean, I know what God has done for me.
50:13
And so to speak to your audience and maybe struggling in this arena, I'll tell you this.
50:18
Here's what I did.
50:19
I could not trust my wife, but I loved her and I wanted to go forward and I was convinced
50:24
she wanted to change her life as well because that was obviously a big part of the problem
50:29
here.
50:30
So in that, how do you go forward?
50:33
Because people kept asking me, well, how are you going to trust her?
50:35
And I was like, I have no idea.
50:36
And like you said, I was praying about it, but these prayers were wrestling prayer.
50:40
This was Jacob, you know, Jacob and Genesis 28, you know, and 32 38.
50:46
The idea was we're as we're going through this wrestling process, God, what can I do?
50:52
And here's where I landed and here's why I want your folks in your audience to listen.
50:59
You land because you have the capacity to trust in God's forgiveness.
51:03
Everyone knows why every time Jesus talks about forgiveness, he says, forgive someone
51:07
else as Christ has forgiven you or as God has forgiven you.
51:10
It always links back to him.
51:12
And what he's given you is the way.
51:14
That's the pathway.
51:15
Because I looked deep inside my own soul and the almighty through the Holy Spirit that was
51:22
living in me.
51:23
And I said, how can I do this?
51:26
And the word I got back from the Holy Spirit was you can only do this if you trust me.
51:31
I'm the only one trustworthy enough.
51:33
You can trust me to somehow get you through this.
51:37
And so that's where I started.
51:38
I started with that.
51:40
And I said, Lord, I want to forgive her.
51:42
And if I forgive her, I know what that means.
51:44
That means I have to forgive like you forgave.
51:45
So that means I have to not use this to hurt her or us going forward.
51:50
And that means I'm going to have to hold my tongue because they're going to be moments.
51:53
I knew they were going to be moments where I wanted to just like go back and relitigate
51:58
this whole thing.
51:59
But I'd made a deal.
52:00
I'd made a vow to the almighty that I would not do that.
52:03
And I said, but the only way I can do this father is if you will let me know where we're
52:08
at six months from now, a year from now, a year and a half now, if she really hasn't
52:12
changed father, you got to let me know.
52:14
I can't live through another year and two months of this insanity.
52:18
And so I felt a piece about it that he would let me know.
52:21
And so what's happened is now fast forward 25 years.
52:25
And so God totally redeemed and rebuilt my wife into this new person that's incredible.
52:31
But what he did in me was he said, if you trust in my ability, it's about faith.
52:36
And if you believe in me enough, then you can do that and you can extend that.
52:40
There'll be a day where you can trust your wife even more than you did prior to all this
52:44
stuff happening.
52:46
And that's exactly where we are at 25 years.
52:48
Lisa sells real estate now.
52:50
She's out showing houses.
52:51
I mean, there's no way this could have ever happened in year one of this, you know, journey
52:56
that we're on because I would have had the ability to just know that she wasn't somehow
53:01
wanting to run into someone else's arms.
53:04
But over the course of 25 years, I'm not only embracing that forgiveness, but being able
53:09
to extend that and now help others get through that process.
53:12
My wife can go show a house and, you know, she can work with men in her office and do
53:17
these things she's doing.
53:19
And I have no fear.
53:20
I don't sit around and just think, you know, I'll always have a little part of me that's
53:24
always aware of where she's at and what she's doing.
53:27
But she has made it so easy for me because she's like, there's no secrets.
53:31
Every passcode, every password, everything my life is about is an open book.
53:36
And that's what got us through the process.
53:38
So just to speak directly to anybody in your audience has been through that.
53:42
It only starts with you being able to somehow embrace the bigness of God to then be able
53:48
to extend that to your wife.
53:49
And look, it's going to be up to her whether she's going to find what she needs to do to
53:54
help your marriage go.
53:55
So I fully realize this is a two way street here with people, but I'm telling you it's
54:00
possible for you to have the forgiveness of God with your spouse or with someone else
54:06
who's harmed at that level because I'm living it every single day.
54:09
I really appreciate obviously you've been very open about this, but for our audience,
54:13
some of them are going to be surprised to hear that.
54:15
And then a lot of this in our audience now is not going to, it's not going to make sense
54:20
because forgiveness really doesn't make sense.
54:22
But if you think about it, the cross doesn't make sense.
54:25
The gospel doesn't make sense.
54:26
Why in the world would the ultimate injustice be done to the ultimate good human figure?
54:32
Like that's why the story of the gospel is the most beautiful tragedy that we could possibly
54:37
see because it is a tragic event because of how unjust it is, but it is a gift for us.
54:42
That's what makes the gospel sweet.
54:44
So for this guy that has gotten to the point of, okay, you know, forgiveness and you know,
54:51
as my, my buddy pastor, Joby Martin says, y'all have had on the show and it was a new
54:55
friend of the unashamed podcast, he said, look, forgiveness, forgiveness isn't a feeling.
55:00
It's a decision.
55:01
Right.
55:02
So you decide to forgive and then you do the actions that forgiveness requires.
55:06
Why?
55:07
Because as God forgave you, you must forgive others as much as that may suck.
55:11
But you brought it up there a few times.
55:14
That's your burden to carry.
55:15
That's your cross to bear, if you will.
55:17
But then there's the wife on the other side now marriages can only end because of, you
55:23
know, according to God, according to death of, you know, infidelity or abandonment.
55:28
There are women that have the affairs and then they abandon the marriage in that they
55:33
stop working.
55:34
They basically get to a point where they're like, you know what, I've done the dog and
55:38
pony show.
55:39
We've done the counseling.
55:40
We've gone to the retreats.
55:41
We've heard the people speak.
55:42
We've read the books, but you know what, this is who I am.
55:46
Take it or leave it.
55:47
This is kind of where we're at.
55:49
And then it's almost like the guy has this attack, right?
55:53
Yeah.
55:54
It's like an internal consternation and dissonance to where it's like, well, she already broke
55:58
the covenant.
55:59
So, biblically speaking, I'm good, but we've been quote unquote working on it for two or
56:03
three years.
56:04
She's gotten to the point where she's done working on it.
56:07
And now if I leave, then I'm the guy that broke the marriage.
56:10
I'm the guy that messed it up.
56:12
And you know, again, we're worried about what people might think and, you know, all those
56:15
types of things.
56:16
So again, 95% male audience, this has happened to a good chunk of these guys.
56:21
And then they've got the woman that stops working.
56:23
She's not holding up her into the bargain.
56:25
And as a man, you want to be able to do it for him, right?
56:28
You want to be able to, you know, do this stuff for your kids, but, you know, if you
56:31
do it for them, then they're not going to get better and you want to do this stuff for
56:34
your wife.
56:35
But all you can do is clear the pathway for her to walk down, but she's got to walk down
56:39
it.
56:40
But if she's not doing it, what is what does a guy to do?
56:42
Well, and there may come a time when you can't stay married to someone.
56:46
I mean, that's just the cold, hard truth of it for the reasons you laid out.
56:51
And here's the thing, even if it gets to that point in your marriage, because it does take
56:55
to working towards the same goal.
56:58
And obviously, if you're doing this from a spiritual perspective, it's much more highly
57:02
possible to do it because you're both going toward the same goal.
57:06
But if you don't, and one of the other checks out of the marriage for whatever may was first
57:11
in affair, now that's maybe not happening, but trust me, it always gets back to something
57:15
like that because this is what happens.
57:17
I mean, the evil one has taken up residence and he isn't booted out, then it's the oath
57:22
saying about Jesus said about, you kick out one and seven more come in.
57:26
This is where you're going to wind up.
57:28
And I talk to a lot of people that go through divorce because of this very thing, even though
57:32
they were trying so hard to do the right thing.
57:34
But here's the thing, here's the little secret you have to know, you've still got to forgive
57:39
her anyway, or else she still holds a burden on your heart.
57:43
Even if you divorced and the relationship is over, you still have to let go of that which
57:48
holds you back and holds you down.
57:51
And so that's what happens with most second marriages.
57:53
That's why most in and divorce at a higher rate than the first one.
57:56
Third is even higher, fourth is even higher.
57:58
At some point, you have to let go of the evil ones clutches into your own heart and life
58:05
because you'll hold on to that bitterness, even if they walk out the door or even if finally
58:09
you part ways because it could not be worked out because both of you weren't trying to
58:13
make it work.
58:15
So either way, the principles I laid out are true.
58:19
And sometimes that happens post relationship to not be held by that.
58:22
It's like you mentioned by abuse earlier, being a big part of Lisa's story and in understanding
58:28
the why it's not trying to make excuses, but just understanding the why she was the way
58:32
she was and has been, it's because part of that was seven years have been molested by
58:37
an uncle.
58:38
Obviously this man, even all these years later had this grip on her life because of what
58:44
he had done to her and then the all the shame that went along with that.
58:47
Well that had to be released or else this man and his sin continued to have an impact
58:52
on me, on my children, on my grandchildren, on all of it.
58:56
And so she had to forgive him and so did I.
58:59
Now we don't have a relationship with him.
59:00
We don't want one.
59:02
I don't want my kids or grandkids anywhere near this man.
59:04
He's still out there.
59:05
He's still alive, but at the same time, at some point we had to let that go and the only
59:10
way we needed the way we knew to do that was to put it at the foot of the cross.
59:15
And so that's still the only thing big enough.
59:17
And so look, the honest truth is you let it out.
59:20
Not every marriage can be saved, but if it can be, it can be not just renewed and back
59:27
to what it used to be.
59:28
We're talking about something new and better and different.
59:31
I mean, Lisa and I almost feel like we have two marriages.
59:33
We have the first 15 years, which a lot of good stuff happened, including my children,
59:37
but then we have these last 25 that I can't tell you what it's grown to.
59:42
In fact, to the place now where I'm like, as bad as everything I went through was, it
59:46
has shaped us into what we're doing today.
59:48
And so I wouldn't change anything, even though, you know, a lot of hurt and pain went on during
59:53
that first 15 years.
59:55
Yeah, I mean, with some of these stories that I know, to hear you talk like that, obviously
1:00:00
you're talking from a place of experience, when you're walking through the valley of shadow
1:00:04
of death, you can barely see in front of you.
1:00:07
Well, this is the, I've used this with different people.
1:00:11
If you've ever been on a trail with a crappy flashlight, you know what I'm about, but I'm
1:00:15
about to say.
1:00:16
So it's pitch black, there's no moon, you got this terrible flashlight or the batteries
1:00:20
are going dead, you're hitting it and you're trying to show this flashlight up the trail.
1:00:25
And when you show it up the trail, it's like, okay, I think the trail kind of been to the
1:00:28
left.
1:00:29
So that, you know, looks like a maybe water there to the right, that's a bush probably
1:00:33
might be a bear.
1:00:34
I think we'll figure it out when we get there, but you can't see anything as you're really
1:00:38
looking forward.
1:00:39
But if you point even that crappy flashlight down at your feet, you can see the next step.
1:00:43
And then you can see the next one.
1:00:45
And that's the crappiest part about it, right?
1:00:47
Is if you have been sinned against in a way, especially like this, that's so egregious
1:00:52
and so evil and so dark, it's hard to know exactly what to do.
1:00:56
So if you wouldn't mind speaking to the guys in our audience, because guys, even if this
1:01:01
doesn't apply to you right now, it could apply to you later, but I guarantee you it applies
1:01:06
to a guy that's in your life.
1:01:08
And so what what I was giving you is tremendous golden wisdom as it pertains to these types
1:01:12
of things.
1:01:13
But to that guy that has done the things he's supposed to do, right, he's decided to forgive.
1:01:18
He's acted out the forgiveness.
1:01:20
He's not as you pointed out perfectly using that as a bludgeon or as an ace of spades
1:01:25
in an argument to bring it up to, you know, validate something inside of himself.
1:01:29
That's deficient or whatever.
1:01:31
But he's got the mental strain when he lays down at the end of the night and the whole
1:01:34
house is quiet and everybody's asleep and he can't fall asleep.
1:01:38
Just running through his head is, I should have gotten even, you know what, I can still
1:01:42
get even.
1:01:43
I know where the guy is, or I still can't believe she did that and you're just haunted
1:01:48
by the exes and o's of the deception and of the deceit and of the physicality of everything.
1:01:54
And again, if we were in an honor based culture, if this was 200 years ago, there'd be a bunch
1:02:00
of dudes dead after duels, right, because we would get our duel and pistols and one
1:02:04
of us would be dead and the other one would just have to live with that, right?
1:02:07
But we don't live in that culture.
1:02:08
We live in the most litigious culture ever.
1:02:10
If I poke you in the chest at the bar, I'm probably going to get sued for it, right?
1:02:14
But to that guy that's just mentally unable to get past it, it's affecting his life.
1:02:20
Maybe it's causing him some other problems with his health or addiction or whatever.
1:02:24
What would you say to that guy seeing as how you're a quarter of a century past it?
1:02:28
Well, first of all, you've got to realize that the reason Christ kept taking it back
1:02:32
is any of us, even maybe in this situation where obviously the one who has aggrieved
1:02:38
and this has been done to us, but all of us have done things we're not proud of, right?
1:02:42
And we understand, therefore, which is why Jesus kept bringing it up, the power of what
1:02:46
God has done in our own lives.
1:02:49
And for me personally, I mentioned at the beginning of this podcast that I had been the
1:02:53
other guy in someone's marital relationship.
1:02:57
Now, look, there were a lot of lies.
1:02:58
She said they have been separated for a year, and that wasn't true.
1:03:01
It was like a month, which means they were just having some trouble.
1:03:05
And then all of a sudden, you know, I blunder into this situation, well, this guy was wanting
1:03:09
to do to me exactly what you just described, Kyle.
1:03:12
And look, the police involved in the situation thought he had every right to because this
1:03:16
is what you do, right?
1:03:17
This is, you know, someone is messing around with your wife, you, you know, either tap
1:03:21
him on the beaker or worse, you know, because he was wanting to kill me that day.
1:03:25
So I understood even being that guy.
1:03:28
So whenever you go forward, another, in my case, almost, you know, 17 years after that,
1:03:34
and then this was done to me, how was I going to react to this?
1:03:38
Now I had the same instinct, so I drove over to this guy's house, you know, when I first
1:03:42
heard about it, and he wasn't there, and I'm glad he wasn't because I was responding strictly
1:03:47
as a human being in rage and one who was aggrieved and hurt.
1:03:52
But over the time of the decision-making process, just like what you said, Joby was talking
1:03:57
about, I realized that that wasn't what that's not the way Christ does business.
1:04:02
You know, in fact, he says in Romans 12, to let him have the ultimate retribution in
1:04:09
what happens.
1:04:10
I mean, I have to trust in him.
1:04:11
As far as it depends on me, I try to live in peace with everyone.
1:04:14
So then I began to realize it wasn't my place to make this right, even with my own wife.
1:04:19
I couldn't do it anyway.
1:04:21
Now would I have felt better in the moment, probably, but would it have been the right
1:04:24
thing to do?
1:04:25
Absolutely not.
1:04:26
Could I have left my children without a dad?
1:04:29
Because I was now in prison for something I did to this other person, possibly.
1:04:34
In that way, Satan continues to win this battle.
1:04:37
You can't operate on satanic terms and expect to have godly results, it just will not happen.
1:04:43
So you've got to realize that God has you in a position where you can handle more than
1:04:48
you think you can handle.
1:04:49
And so you've got to continue to try to do the right thing, no matter what happens.
1:04:53
And look, you may be the person that's in that when this first happened the next day,
1:04:57
this was a Friday night that spilled into Saturday morning where the truth came out in my situation.
1:05:03
And I literally, when Lisa left the house, because I wanted her out, she left, and when
1:05:07
she left the house, my good friend, John Goblin, who's on the duck dynasty and as well as one
1:05:13
of my best friends, he just came and he parked himself in my living room for the next two
1:05:17
or three days.
1:05:18
And he was my sounding boy.
1:05:20
Everybody knows John knows that he doesn't speak a whole lot, but sometimes just being
1:05:23
a listener is what you need.
1:05:25
And so I was literally in a fetal position wrapped up in an Afghan because I was almost
1:05:31
like I was in shock and just chilled, wondering about it.
1:05:34
And he was there and whenever I would just have needing to ramble and rant and he would
1:05:40
listen and then he would pray for me and he would listen and he would listen.
1:05:44
And I was thought everybody needs a John Goblin.
1:05:47
And so no matter where this happens in your life, you may be one of those two people.
1:05:52
You may be the person wrapped up in the Afghan, you know, on the couch or you may be the other
1:05:57
person that's the listener and that says, look, I can't solve this for you, but I'll tell
1:06:01
you what, I'm here and I'm not going anywhere.
1:06:04
And so, you know, there are a lot of different ways to serve and to be served if something
1:06:09
like this is going on in your life and you've got to be willing to be that guy either way.
1:06:13
Okay.
1:06:14
So let's, let's, we're going to start wrapping to a close, put a bow in this conversation
1:06:18
because we got to leave some, you know, we got to leave a little bit to the imagination
1:06:22
for the summer.
1:06:23
So guys, you can look forward to part two of this.
1:06:26
I'm not going to call this part one, but I'll come up with some sort of piffy title
1:06:29
for that one.
1:06:30
But for guys that are like, okay, I hear you, they've either been in this situation or they've
1:06:35
got a friend in that situation.
1:06:36
Like how specifically can you and Lisa help help them?
1:06:40
What resources do you have?
1:06:41
Because all this has been, you know, gold, it's great advice and all those types of things.
1:06:44
But guys that are wanting to go further, where would you direct?
1:06:46
All right.
1:06:47
Well, two things.
1:06:48
One is you got to, you got to look for a book that was a kind of a guiding light for Lisa
1:06:55
first and then later me is from a guy named Joe beam and it's called getting past guilt
1:07:00
and you can find it if you go to Amazon guys, I'll put that in the show notes.
1:07:04
Okay.
1:07:05
It really, really powerful when it was written, it was called forgiven forever.
1:07:09
And that title got me.
1:07:10
And so how we're publishing, which is used to be based here in west when I was the one
1:07:14
who published it.
1:07:15
And I'm telling you this book, other than the Bible impacted my life in a huge way.
1:07:19
So get that because that helps you understand the why of what Satan does, how he controls
1:07:24
lives.
1:07:25
And so Joe does an excellent job, very transparent.
1:07:27
And the other thing is I would, I would encourage people to then going from there, especially
1:07:32
if you're doing post affair and trying to figure out how to forgive in your own marriage.
1:07:36
We have a book called a new season, which you can also find.
1:07:41
We wrote another one called for desperate forgiveness.
1:07:44
And both of these were written in a ministry aspect.
1:07:48
What I just share, but way more in depth, I was, you know, our story, but exactly how
1:07:53
that goes forward to help.
1:07:55
So Hey, our website is Allen Lisa Robertson dot com.
1:07:58
We write blogs weekly, just trying to like talk about different things from our own life,
1:08:03
as well as things that could impact.
1:08:05
So those are things that we offer and put out there to be able to help other people.
1:08:09
But man, don't you don't have to go through it alone for sure, but you have to deal with
1:08:14
it in your own house.
1:08:16
And so you need all the help you can get to do that.
1:08:18
Well, I appreciate that.
1:08:20
I appreciate you being open on all that kind of stuff, but we're going to have to leave
1:08:23
it there.
1:08:24
But is there anything else you want to get off your chest?
1:08:26
No, just can't wait for you to get down here.
1:08:29
Have you all run this shamed and continue this conversation and look how we're super proud
1:08:33
of you, what you're doing.
1:08:36
You know, you and I've been friends for a few years now.
1:08:38
And of course you share that you just do love with, with my son in law and what we're doing
1:08:42
with that as well.
1:08:43
And so I just couldn't be proud of you for living the life you're living and just pray
1:08:47
you continue doing that.
1:08:48
And I'm grateful for your audience.
1:08:50
Well, I appreciate the kind words and, you know, Al, by the time I get down there, we
1:08:54
might be in the same weight class, me and you.
1:08:57
So I can, I can bring an extra gee, maybe we can fight in the front yard.
1:09:01
What do you think?
1:09:02
If we roll, I'll be tapping before we even get started.
1:09:05
So it's all over.
1:09:06
Okay.
1:09:07
We'll make sure that we live stream and put it out there for everybody.
1:09:09
All right.
1:09:10
Al, I appreciate you.
1:09:11
We'll talk soon.
1:09:12
All right.
1:09:13
Thanks.
1:09:14
Go.
1:09:15
There you go guys.
1:09:16
I hope you enjoyed my time with Al Robertson.
1:09:17
But before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost and undaunted life
1:09:17
permission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges, spiritual, mental
1:09:21
and physical resilience.
1:09:22
Sorry, I got a link here to Al and Lisa's website.
1:09:24
So on that website, you can get access to all the books that he mentioned there.
1:09:28
Also linked to the Duck Commander website because obviously that's awesome.
1:09:30
The unashamed podcast because that is where Al and Jason kind of kept the momentum going
1:09:35
of what them and their father had started.
1:09:37
And then also I've got a link to that Amazon book that he talked about there from the other
1:09:40
author.
1:09:41
So all that stuff is right there in the show notes for you.
1:09:43
Thank you for listening to this podcast.
1:09:45
Whatever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five
1:09:48
star review.
1:09:49
If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, shoot me an email
1:09:52
to info@undonton.life.
1:09:54
That's i-n-f-o@undonton.life.
1:09:55
Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else,
1:10:00
including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way.
1:10:02
Just go to www.undonton.life.
1:10:04
And as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing us to use their music for
1:10:08
our content.
1:10:09
The music on this podcast is their song Perpetua, which is off their self-titled debut album
1:10:13
on Face Down Records.
1:10:14
The links are in the description.
1:10:16
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
1:10:18
Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
1:10:25
Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
1:10:43
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