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[Music]
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This is Undaunted Life of Man's Podcast. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it.
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All right, guys. Today, I've got a special guest on the podcast. His name is Adam Comer.
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He is a pastor and also the CEO of S2L Recovery. So S2L Recovery is a Christian based, not faith
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based. We will get into that in the show. It is a Christian based, Christ centered addiction
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recovery, residential care facility for men aged 18 to 65. It's out there in Tennessee.
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And as I mentioned, he's the CEO of S2L Recovery. But he actually used to be a participant in
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the program because Adam himself used to be completely addicted to opioids. So tell me
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the number of guys you know that used to be an addict that now run the program that helps
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addicts. Okay. So he's also featured in the documentary, The Forgotten Pandemic. But here's
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the thing, guys, I've wanted to talk to somebody that knows a lot about this area for a while
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now. So I'm really, really glad that Adam and I got connected because here in the United
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States, we consume 80% of the world's opioids, but we only make up 5% of the world's population.
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And in this era of COVID, we're all focused on this, you know, this disease, this virus
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that is affecting people in a serious way at a very minor level. We've talked about that
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on the show for years and years at this point, you're a bad person. If you talk about you
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don't care about grandma, you don't care about death, blah, blah. But then we're completely
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ignoring overdoses. We're completely ignoring real addictions to these supplements, right?
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Or to these, to these medications, right? We're, we have a sprained ankle and someone gives
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us a bottle of opioids and then we get addicted. And then people are going to the streets.
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I already talked about on the show that in the age 18 to 49 bracket, the number one cause
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of death is fentanyl overdose, not overdose to anything. It's fentanyl overdose. Why is
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that? It's because people are addicted to these opioids. They're going, they're going
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back to their doctors, their doctors aren't prescribing them anymore. Now they're going
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to hit the street to try to get them. They're going to get one that's been laced with fentanyl
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and then they die. And I feel like no one's really talking about the true overdose issue
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that we're having in America of all the prominent people in news, conservative or otherwise.
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I feel like Tucker Carlson is the only one that really, really talks about this on a
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regular basis. It's really falling on deaf ears. And so that's one of the reasons why
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I'm so excited about the show. So excited about this interview is because you guys need to
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understand what's really going on out there. But also you need to understand why people
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are going to these secular 12 step programs and not receiving actual help. They're relapsing
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over and over and over. And yet we never question the validity of the 12 step program, the typical
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secular 12 step program. And there's a lot of issues with that. So guys, if you've already
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gotten a little bit offended, it's only going to get worse. But I promise you, there's a
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lot of great nuggets in here. I'm so glad you're here for it. So without further ado,
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let's get into it. Adam Comer, welcome to Undaunted Life of man's podcast.
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Yeah, man, thank you so much for having me in that great intro that I wrote for you and
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made you say about me. I appreciate that. Yeah, you're welcome. Hey, the intro is one
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of those things that I get to lovingly slobber all over my guests without them actually having
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to hear it beforehand. But the thing about this podcast, and as you know, since you've
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kind of done a little bit of research on us as well, we like to get right into it from
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the beginning. We don't really like to start simple. Heavy subject matter for today, but
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it's it'll be good. And I was telling you this off air. This is something that I've wanted
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to talk about for a really, really long time because it is ignored by churches. It's ignored
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by parachurch ministries and everything like that. But part of the reason why we're talking
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today is because you're the CEO of a Christian based recovery residential care facility for
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men called S2L recovery. And we'll get way more into the Christian based side of that
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here in just a bit. But you guys help walk men out of a life of addiction, like you don't
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just tell them what to do or here's your here's your 12 steps or here's your booklet. It's
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like you're actually holding their hands and walking them out of addiction. But the most
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interesting part of that is that you yourself used to actually be a part of that program.
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Oh, yeah. Because you yourself were I if I got it correctly, you were addicted to opioids.
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And so from from death to life in Christ for yourself, but also from addict to CEO of the
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program to save addicts. I mean, the the program that actually saved you. I mean, as broad of
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a starting point is that is give us some info around that because that is a very unique
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story. One that I'm not really familiar with any hearing anywhere else. Oh, yeah. And I
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mean, it was it was so not only, I mean, from addict, but to saint, right? And that's
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the big difference and excuse me. Yeah, I mean, I was I could go down my testimony and kind
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of start from the beginning or I can just kind of tell you why it's different. And you tell
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me where you want me to go with that. But it's an open book today. And man, it's by the
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blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony we overcome. So I'm not ashamed. But yeah,
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really bad off I grew up I had I would say I had a grew up with the American dream and
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the aspect of no trauma or drama in my life, which which is important to mention because
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a lot of them then I serve. That's the case. We serve a lot of people who have had bad
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family life. We have a lot of veterans that come in a lot of our COO is a combat veteran.
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We have three or four other veterans on staff and it's very important that we talk about
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that later because we're actually doing a cool program just for combat veterans is our
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plan. I think next year led by combat veterans only treating combat veterans for this. But
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it's important that my story that's just not my case. I didn't have that. I had still
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had two great parents. I was popular in school, played sports. I was I was led into addiction
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with a back injury. I moved down to to New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina hurt my back.
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And you know, I could go deep into a lot of the things I was doing in high school. But
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when I tasted that first powerful prescription drug pain pain pill man in my mind, it was
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like, Hey, that's what you've been missing. Didn't know I was missing something. But
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immediately I did. And so it just became these chase and chase and life spiraled out of control.
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I mean, I lost everything, including my only woman I ever loved. She left me went to all
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the secular rehabs, the 12 steps, the NAs, the A meetings. I was, I mean, you name it
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whatever they prescribe. And by they, I mean, the world and the brilliant people in the
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secular addiction, I guess, space, I did everything they said, and it was just hopeless. I was
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always going to be an addict. I had to identify as one when I spoke at a meeting, Hey, my name's
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Adam and I'm an addict. And it was just hopeless. And so I mean, it was just constant relapse,
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constant relapse. And eventually, like I said, I was just losing everything, everything.
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My wife left me. I couldn't, I couldn't even sleep. Like I had nowhere to lay my head because
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I would steal from people. And I began doing thing. I just was doing things. I never thought
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I would for something that big. And so finally, I Googled, is there such thing as Christian
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recovery because I've tried it this way. And you know, like I said, I grew up with great
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parents. I grew up in church. And yeah, that's when S2L popped up. And I went there and immediately
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there was hope because here's what I heard. Don't don't say that about yourself. If you're
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a believer, the Bible says you're a saint. Who are you to say anything different? The
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Bible says that there's freedom, who the sun sets free, that if you're in Christ, you're
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a new creation, the old's gone, you've been crucified with all of this, trying to talk
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about our identity and who he is. And it was contrary to what I was taught all in my recovery
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time of what the world said. And in fact, everything that, not everything, a lot of things that
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the world was telling us on how to recover was antithetical to what God's words said.
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And so immediately it was hope. And I like, I wanted to hear more about who God is and
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more about who God says I am. And I just dove into consumed as word. And man, I don't know,
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I don't know how to explain it, although the best words I could use is like almost like
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my DNA shifted. Like I no longer, I was a new creation. Right. Yeah. And so God began
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to restore my marriage, although where I was from is East Tennessee, and where the program
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is is in middle Tennessee, it's about three hours away. And you know, eventually God restored
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the marriage thing started to happen. And they asked me to intern. And I knew I felt cold
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to help, but also knew that everything I had was in East Tennessee, along with my family,
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my wife's family, my wife, any career. And so I was like, yeah, I'll intern. But I don't
8:30
after that, that's all we can do. And so they offered me a job at the end of the internship.
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And I was like, Hey, let's pray about it. You know, I gave him the church answer. And
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so I went with to my wife, I said, Hey guys, give us three days, we're going to pray about
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it. And I just told my wife her name's Katie. I said, Katie, I mean, I know the answer to
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this. And I know you know the answer to this, but I committed that we pray about it for
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three days. And so on the second day of praying, my wife's boss came to her and said, Hey, Katie,
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we have an opportunity for you to have a promotion, but you'd have to be willing to move to Middle
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Tennessee to take it. And we were just like, really? There you go. Okay, God. All right.
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And so that that was 10 years ago. And that began a journey of just my guess was on the
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table of obedience to the Lord. And he began to open doors and open doors until like you
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said, in the intro, it was, yeah, I'm now I'm now the chief executive officer of the very
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program God called me to heal in. So it's been a wild ride. Well, we're going to get into
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a lot of that information. But I do just got to say, I still think it's funny that we have
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a state in America that is so long East to West, people refer to the middle of the state
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as Middle Tennessee, because I'm in the middle of Oklahoma, but I'm never like, yeah, I live
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in middle Oklahoma. So that's just a little sidebar. Guys, I'm a weirdo. It's just kind
9:45
of how it goes. But I do want to go back to something from the very beginning, because
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I do jujitsu. So basically I'm going to have surgery every year or two. That's just kind
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of the way of it. But I remember whenever I blew, you know, every tendon in this thumb.
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And I get a call from a guy. So shout out to my buddy Spike in lot in Oklahoma. Yes,
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I have a buddy named Spike again. I'm a weirdo. But he, he called me all the blue. And this
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is guy, you know, we, we trade texts about sports and, you know, funny videos and stuff
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like that. And he knew I just had surgery. And he was very serious. He's like, how you
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need, you need to be very, very careful with, with the opioids that they sent you. And he's
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like, I know you're a very disciplined guy. I know you're a faithful guy, all those things.
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But you got to be careful. And I kind of text him back. I'm like, thanks, you know, I'm
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going to be careful. I'm going to get to get off these as quickly as possible. But I'm
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just curious why you would say that. And he's like, buddy, I've, I've lost two, I think
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he said I lost two friends in the last year. And these guys were athletes and they were
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this and that. So give me a little bit more there because there's plenty of people that
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are disciplined like I am. There's plenty of people that have a support system of family
10:45
around them and be like, wait, did you take another? Did you take another pill today?
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Like, but I was so excited to get off of them. Like, whenever I felt like I could really
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fall asleep without without taking one, I put him in the cabinet and I never even thought
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him about him about him again. But what is it about those things? Aside from the fact
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that it's synthetic heroin that really gets it grips and it gets its grip into people.
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Yeah, I guess that's it. I don't know. I don't know why. I mean, I don't know how much trouble
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we want to get in on this. How much how much trouble we want to get into all the trouble
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I want all the smoke. Okay. All right. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I think
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and this is not I'm not a scientist or a doctor, but I mean, it almost seems as though, well,
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I could tell you stats. How about that? I could tell you in May of 2000 to May of 2021, 100,000
11:39
people died of drug overdose. That's astronomical. That's that's more casualties than the entire
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Vietnam War era. That's 17 years, I believe. I could tell you that it's it's like it's
11:53
a molecule away from synthetic heroin. I could tell you that the United States consumes,
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I want to say 85% of the world, the global opioids, and we're only 5% of the global population.
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I don't know why. I mean, the chemistry of the brain, I mean, we could talk about why
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people are addicted, but it almost seems man, big pharma and insurance companies, it's just
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it doesn't seem like it's what's best for humans, right? It doesn't numb the pain. Yeah.
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But it's the kind of pain if you're going into surgery or if you're going into some
12:28
kind of like major pain, but they're handed out for like sprained knees and pulled muscles
12:34
in your back and it's like, why are we doing this? This is a horse tranquilizer. Why are
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we doing this? Well, I feel like it may even be and I'm going to be jumping all over the
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place, but I feel like it may even be. So look with COVID and we'll talk more about
12:46
COVID here in just a second. So nothing, nobody's talking about, hey, you need to be in better
12:51
shape. Hey, you need to focus on your health. Hey, you need to eat better. Hey, you need
12:54
to get some sleep. Hey, take some vitamin D and some vitamin C and some zinc and you
12:58
know, try to take care of yourself. You know, no one was talking about that. It was just
13:02
hold your breath until the vaccine's available and then get the vaccine and then get it again
13:05
and then get the booster and then get the second booster and then we might need to do
13:08
a third, fourth, fifth and add if an item until forever. And so whenever someone has
13:12
an issue that maybe a small lifestyle change or some stretching programs or a little bit
13:17
of PT, it's like, yeah, we know you're not going to do that. Here's a little orange bottle
13:21
with a white cap. Just take these and you'll be fine. But in general, I, Adam, I follow
13:26
the wisdom that you shouldn't attribute to evil, what can be attributed to ignorance
13:30
or incompetence. So I try not to just blame the evil pharmaceutical drug companies. But
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if I'm being honest, it seems like a perfect storm for them incentivize doctors to prescribe
13:40
opioids, get people addicted, rinse, repeat. Like, again, I don't want to think of these
13:46
doctors as evil. I don't necessarily want to think of these companies as evil because
13:49
I think the modern market system free market system has got us to where we are today has
13:54
lifted, you know, untold billions of people out of poverty worldwide. Like I get that
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I'm okay with, you know, profit, you know, seeking and those types of things. But with
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the issues we're seeing, like, why isn't there more of a ground swell of even doctors
14:08
saying, yeah, yeah, you don't need these pills, baby. Like let me let me get you to someone
14:13
who can give you a little bit more of a holistic approach to what you're doing. You know, hey,
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I need to see three or more times before I would ever prescribe you something. Why don't
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why don't we see that? Like at a mass level? Well, I mean, again, there's also something
14:26
now that's called MAT medically assisted treatment is the next I mean, me even talking negatively
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about this to you right now. I am ignorant. I'm a bigot. Oh, you just you're not following
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the science. But it's basically maintenance medication long term maintenance medication
14:43
that's keeping people it's an opioid blocker. But in and of itself, it's an narcotic and
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people are getting high and extremely addicted to this drug. I'm seeing guys come to our program
14:55
more and more and more and more every year just to get off the drug that they were given
14:58
to get off of drugs. And so it's it's insanity. But guess what? How brain broke is it to imagine
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that hey, let's trust the saint like the big we call it the forgotten pandemic of with
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addiction, but that big spur. And I think I said it in the documentary, there's a big
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spike in like addictions and a wave of overdoses when Opio is really pushed on to the market
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and they're made by pharmaceutical companies. Why in the world would we think that the answer
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out of that is just more drugs made by the same pharmaceutical companies. So I mean, in
15:29
theory, if if I can keep you sick, I can keep getting paid. If I can keep you taking my
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medication, then my bottom, I mean, you're asking that that would be an obvious answer
15:40
to me. But with that and like inserted into it with the people that I'm seeing with, I've
15:45
taken the drugs, I don't, I'm not against medication. I think that same drug that I'm
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talking for is amazing, very short term, like to kick to kick the withdrawals to for seven
15:57
to 10 days, something like that. Absolutely. Why not use that? But to have someone on that
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drug long term to me seems very dangerous, very dangerous because I've taken it. I know
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what it can. I know that it's addicting. I know the kind of feeling that you can get
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from. Well, Adam, everything in society that was meant to be short term gets elongated as
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you were talking. You know, I thought about welfare. Like welfare back in the day was
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I literally don't have the means to make ends meet. I don't have the ability to get on my
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feet right now. Let me allow for some government assistance right now to get me on my feet.
16:33
And I'll get on my feet as soon as possible. And even had people go back and pay back what
16:37
they borrowed from the government. They looked at it as if they were borrowing something
16:40
like it was alone. But now we have people that are on government assistance for years
16:44
and years and years and there's no intent to get off. And something I wrote down as you
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were talking is that we don't have a health care system as much as we have a sick care
16:52
system, right? So no one's trying to to make you a healthy person. It's like you go to
16:58
the doctor when you're sick, you don't go to the doctor when you're healthy, saying,
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Hey, I'd love to stay healthy. What are some things that I should be doing? Are there
17:04
some vitamins that I should be taking? Is there a new workout regimen that I should
17:08
be doing? I haven't been getting a lot of sleep. Do you have any natural remedies or
17:10
something that can help me get some better sleep in that area? And the only way to keep
17:14
a sick care system going is to keep people sick. And so this this revolving door that
17:20
we see like doctors don't seem to be terribly concerned. And I get so overwhelmed when I
17:25
hear people that are like, well, I had a blood pressure problem. So they put me on this medication,
17:29
but then that caused me to have gout. And then I had to be on this medication that I had
17:32
to be on this. And then it's like nobody can un you know, untangle this web that we've
17:37
gotten into. Again, it's not like the again what we're not so obviously, I can't speak
17:45
for you, but I would imagine that you believe medication is a common grace and gift of God.
17:50
Absolutely. But it there is an issue to say. So I mean, so many people like it will make
17:55
a post about some of the things that we're saying, you know, with opiates. And I mean,
17:59
there's there's the out I don't even know if they're outliers, but we'll get comments,
18:02
we'll get emails that just like, it's these drug addicts are making it so hard for people
18:09
with legitimate pain to take, you know, get their pain medication. It's like, man, listen
18:12
to the stat that I already mentioned, 85% of global opioids are taking in this country.
18:18
Are we in a lot more pain than Europe? Are we in a lot more pain than these other? It's
18:22
not like Europe's poor and can't afford the Medicaid. I mean, it's not, I'm not talking
18:26
third world countries here, but we're taking 85% and we're only 5% of the world's population.
18:32
This is an issue. They don't talk to me about how it's hard. Why are you taking a synthetic
18:38
heroin when an ad bill will do or, you know, or or something else could do or stretching
18:43
and man, it's a problem. It's a problem.
18:46
I think the bigger problem because because obviously this is a massive problem, everything
18:50
that we're describing, but in the era of COVID, right, we're going into our third year of
18:56
this. COVID has dominated the news cycle and it has kept the general public from even knowing
19:01
about the crisis that is drug overdoses, especially from fentanyl. I know that even
19:06
just a couple of months ago, it was announced that the number one leading cause of death
19:10
for adults age 18 to 49 was fentanyl overdose. Okay. Now, now I think that that's something
19:17
gets lost in the translation there. People just hear overdose and they forget fentanyl.
19:22
I was like, they're not saying overdose from anything. They're saying overdose from a very
19:27
specific thing. Fentanyl is the number one cause of death, more than COVID, more than cancer,
19:32
more than, you know, wild dog attacks. Anything is fentanyl. And part of the issue is because
19:36
people are getting hooked on opioids. Their doctors stopped prescribing them to them. They
19:40
go to the street to get these opioids now. They've been laced with fentanyl and then they overdose
19:44
almost immediately. You know, we part of the issue that we see at the southern border
19:48
is the amount of fentanyl that is being brought into the United States is enough to kill every
19:52
single person in the United States. And these are things like the spigots not going to turn off.
19:56
So give us some perspective because again, you're talking to an audience that is,
20:01
is kind of like me that they're, they're just shocked at these numbers when they see the headlines,
20:05
but give us a little bit more of a perspective around the real issue with overdose in America
20:09
right now and just abuse in general. Yeah. And I mean, even to not, I don't want to scare people
20:16
into not taking drugs. I hope, hopefully, and I mean, we, we discussed a mutual person earlier,
20:22
but hopefully, who speaks on this a lot, but hopefully the heart changes and we're not chasing
20:27
idols to fill a place in our heart. Like that said in my testimony, there was a hole that I was
20:32
like, Oh, this is what I've been missing. Hopefully we're not chasing idols for that. And that's what
20:36
this drug is. But when it comes to fentanyl, I mean, and again, not to scare, but I read a story the
20:42
other day that there was a, I don't know, a teenager man, went with some friends and there was a pill,
20:48
a prescription pill that was brought out and he took it the first time he's ever done it and he
20:53
died because it was a fake pill. It was fentanyl or it was laced with fentanyl. And it looked just
20:58
like a pharmaceutical pill. And so just a warning to those that could be listening or please talk
21:03
with your children, your friends, your son or your brothers or sisters that you think might be
21:08
doing it. I mean, even if you think it's a prescription pill, they're so good now and they're laced and
21:14
it's like, goodness, like I said earlier, 100,000 deaths, that's just drug overload. If we're talking
21:20
about just opiates and just fentanyl, that's fine. But that 100,000 deaths a year, don't even
21:25
including the, you know, devastation that comes from alcohol. And I don't believe alcohol is
21:30
sinful. I don't believe any of that. But, you know, being drunk and abusing alcohol is absolutely
21:36
sinful. And it's the disease that's coming from that liver disease car accidents. When you add all
21:42
of this up, why is all we're hearing about in the news, COVID? Right? For three years, like you
21:47
said, why are we not addressing this? And here's what I'll say. The church with a capital C has
21:53
always been the one that marched into the storm in church history. We've always been the one to
21:57
address these issues. But yet with this one is almost a fear. There's almost a, and I want to
22:03
be gracious here, because like you said, I want to have, I can't remember how you said it, but it
22:07
was ignorance or, you know, evil. And I want, I don't want to believe it's evil. So I want to be
22:12
gracious. But we feel like, and I've been on this, a part of making the documentary that I'm sure we're
22:18
going to talk about was to hey, reach out to the church. And we've had an awesome response to that.
22:21
But I think there's a fear because people could die if I say the wrong thing. I think there's a,
22:31
there's, you know, there is also a stigma attached to it, because back in the day, it was almost like,
22:36
hey, there's only a certain type of people that are getting high and doing that. If you're still in
22:41
that mindset, or if you're still thinking that you're just blind, or you're living under a rock,
22:45
especially, I mean, we've had judges, professional athletes, doctors, lawyers, homeless people,
22:51
everyone's coming to our program with the need for healing and from addiction. And so,
22:57
gosh, it's like the church is time for to wake up. And we're afraid because if we say, I'm assuming,
23:04
and I've talked with people to back this up, but if I say the wrong thing, or if I'm
23:09
discipling this guy, and I'm never dealt with an addiction, if I say the wrong thing, he could die.
23:13
And I mean, remind this podcast and know they are dying, right? Not saying anything is way
23:19
more deadly than discipling someone. So I want to talk a little bit more about the capital C church,
23:24
because, and we spoke about this off air, a lot of the things that we cover on
23:29
undaunted life of man's podcast are subjects that are seemingly too hot for the church,
23:33
because they don't talk about them, especially in this modern era of, you know, people like to
23:37
say mega churches, but I'm okay with churches having a mega impact. It's the fact that they're
23:41
set up like companies, where the lead pastor is a CEO and not a lead pastor, right? You know,
23:47
you have these passwords of these mega churches, they couldn't name 100 members, right? And yet,
23:51
they're leading the flock. It's just kind of like, yeah, I don't know if I really buy that.
23:55
But the thing about it is, is so many churches are unwilling to get their hands dirty and get their
24:00
feet dirty in areas that seem scary. One of those areas is abortion. You know, that seems scary,
24:06
that seems real judgmental. And I don't want, you know, women that have had abortion to stop
24:09
coming to our church and that kind of a thing, which I understand the sentiment at least,
24:13
then you have, you know, other things like, you know, they don't want to get into the race issue,
24:17
because they look at their, you know, their, their congregation. It's mainly white and they
24:20
don't want to ostracize, you know, the, the people of color that are in the room or whatever.
24:24
But with this thing as well, with drug abuse, especially since it's not just a, you know, downtrodden
24:30
human being, a homeless problem or a, you know, just a bad person problem. It's doctors,
24:36
it's staying home moms, it's children, all these different things. Why do you think the
24:40
capital seat church is staying away from these things? Because we, you know, we're called as a body
24:47
to push back darkness, to bring the light of Christ into these dark areas. Why are we not touching it?
24:52
Yeah. And that's a really good question. And I think for you, if someone was really listening
24:57
to us and wanted to press us, I think both of us would say, when we say capital seat church,
25:02
we mean the global church, but that does, I know personally, and I know that you know, especially,
25:07
I mean, even my own church, I'm not trying to, you know, feel good. But, but there are some that are,
25:13
like, really pressing into all of these issues, biblically standing firm on stage. And so we're
25:18
not saying, when we say capital seat church, we don't mean just a church. I think both Kyle and I
25:23
love the church. I know I love the church. And it sounds as though he loves the church too,
25:26
the body of Christ. But the reason I think there are some, and maybe, maybe majority,
25:31
I don't know, there are some churches, possibly the majority that don't go after these issues.
25:37
And I don't know, I mean, if we want to go and kind of the most, like, recent church history and
25:42
talk about growth and talk about that model and things like that. But I mean, it's just hard.
25:46
If we want to talk about human nature, it's hard to talk about issues that are going to hurt
25:50
people's feelings. I think especially men that are watching this, passivities killed Christian men,
25:57
killed, killed being passive and not being able to have a conversation that might hurt someone's
26:02
feelings, but is what you're called to do and call someone to the carpet. That's what that's
26:08
actually loving them the best. And I think passivity is killing a lot of things and that rolls into
26:13
the pulpit. And so if there's an issue that I'm talking about, and there's there's way more than
26:19
even just you said that are socially kind of off limits. And so I don't know, I don't want to
26:24
condemn them. I know there's a lot of churches that are that are speaking to these things. I know
26:29
multiple of them, we partner with them, our ministry does. But for the most part, it does seem like,
26:35
hey, when and if we do talk about them, we don't really dive into them, we just kind of hit some
26:40
talking points of them. So man, I don't know, if you had to press me on that, I would answer just
26:45
maybe passivity, maybe one in the world that love you. I don't know, man.
26:50
I think you're, I think you're on to some things there. But also the thing that I would say is,
26:55
if you're the lead pastor and you look out at the men in your church and you don't think that they
26:59
have your back, you're not going to take very many risks. And so part of the thing that I like to do
27:04
is whenever I talk to guys and whenever I say things on this podcast, and I'm like, if you want
27:07
to see change in your church, and if you want to see your pastor talk about abortion and not just
27:11
mention it for a minute or two in a sermon, but to do an entire series on it, to do something like
27:16
for the entire church, go to your pastor and say, Hey, if you talk about this subject matter,
27:21
I've got your back. Some of those slings and arrows that are going to come your way. I'll take some
27:25
of those and then have your buddy go and have a conversation with the pastor and say the same thing
27:29
and another and another and another. So the pastor understands that if I go a little bit outside my
27:34
comfort zone, right, if I, if I, you know, unbutton my sweater vest just a little bit further or
27:38
something like that or the sweater vest don't have buttons. Don't worry about it. But like, if I'm
27:42
going to have to like, you know, to really take care of things, I've got people that have my back.
27:46
And that's part of the thing is you have so many passive men in the church, they're passive to the
27:50
point of not showing up, or they're passive to the point of showing up but being brain dead,
27:55
or they're just passive because they just really don't give a crap. They're there because they're
27:58
supposed to be because it's a cultural thing. I'm supposed to go to church. Like, that's what I
28:02
really feel like it gets down to call that man. That is, that's really good. And the
28:07
aspect, it's easy for us. I mean, I'm a pastor as well, not a church, but in the ministry. I think
28:12
it's easy for us, like I just did, to kind of pile on the pastor. But what you just did was, hey,
28:18
church goer, church member, what are you doing? You just gave some practical things, man. And I
28:25
haven't really heard anyone talking about that. But that's a brilliant idea. If I, if someone came
28:30
to me in my, in our ministry and said, Hey, I know whatever, but I got your back. Okay, a little
28:36
more confident. Exactly. And then this guy, what a, what a great thing for you to bring up, man.
28:41
And I think we challenge you men that are listening to this. Go do that. But even if your pastor is
28:47
covering these things, let them know that you got his back. Exactly. So I would some stupid bumper
28:51
sticker thing be the change you want to see in the world. That's kind of it though. It's just like,
28:56
Hey, man, I'm so tired of these effeminate songs being sung at church and all that. And where's the,
29:01
where's the songs and where's the stuff that get the guys riled up? Have you ever spoken to the
29:05
person that leads worship at your church? Because we did an episode where we talked about, you know,
29:09
the problem with modern contemporary worship music. And I had music ministers reaching out to me,
29:15
saying, I've never thought that people in the crowd thought these things. I had never considered
29:19
the men in the crowd. When I was picking out the songs, I never thought that these lyrics were
29:24
homo erotic, that these men, the reason why they weren't singing them is because they felt like
29:27
they were singing to a, you know, a guy that was their boyfriend and not the, you know, the, the
29:31
line of Judah. And so it's like, that, that's a you thing, right? You're like, he can't, you know,
29:36
see the problem with what he's doing unless you go and actually talk to him. But I'm kind of getting
29:40
a little off subject here. I'm going to kind of bring it back to the overall issue with drugs,
29:43
because one thing that I see a lot, especially in the era where one of the most proud and loud
29:48
voices on every subject is Joe Rogan, right? And I listen to the Joe Rogan experience,
29:53
and I appreciate that guy, you know, I kind of tune him out on some of the things that he's ignorant
29:56
on. But there's this entire camp of people. That's the legalize all drugs people. It's like,
30:02
well, they legalize all drugs in, you know, this random European city or country and look how
30:07
great things are going pretending as if those cities or countries are anything like the United
30:11
States of America. But these people think that if you just legalize all drugs, that it won't have
30:16
any significant negative downstream consequences. It will somehow eradicate the black market and
30:23
not lead to additional users. Even here in the state of Oklahoma, when there was a debate around
30:28
legalizing medical marijuana, I said, guys, they never stop at medical. So that's the first thing,
30:35
like, you're like, well, I'm for medical marijuana use, but I'm not for, you know,
30:39
you know, just recreational use. I was like, well, it never stops there one. And it's like,
30:43
do you really think these nefarious criminal actors that run the black market are going to be like,
30:48
Oh, well, they've legalized it. So I guess we're not going to sell any more weed in the state of
30:52
Oklahoma. No, they're going to get creative and they're going to undercut the state prices because
30:56
they don't have to charge tax or pay tax or any of those types of things. So for you,
31:00
working in the world that you're in, being around the people that you're around,
31:03
the legalize all drugs camp, that thought process, what do you think about it?
31:07
Yeah, that's a, that's a great question. And I mean, I have, I think it would be,
31:11
my, my instinct is wanting to go and pull up a lot of the data from the states that have made,
31:18
like, like Colorado and all of this stuff. I'm like, Hey, your thoughts on this, doing this,
31:23
we're just off. Look at these negative. That's kind of where my instinct wants to go. But I think
31:27
if, if Christian men are listening to this and they're asked about it, I don't know that I need
31:32
to move away from the word of God as much. And so what the word of God says is be alert and be so
31:37
reminded your enemy, the devil prowls around like a roaring lion waiting, looking for someone to devour.
31:44
And so any talks of legalizing just all of these drugs and making all these things legal and all
31:50
of these drugs are mind altering, right? And no longer alert. So I mean, have your pushback,
31:55
have your base pushback there. But if we're entering into the political, it's just, I mean,
32:00
it's more insanity, man. I mean, the things that are coming out, the, it's disheartening to see the
32:08
world, the culture, and the insanity of decisions being made and the just absurdness of the decisions
32:15
being made. How is this possible? Hey, making these drugs legal is going to be your ticket of
32:20
what emptying out the prisons? Yeah, you're going away with the cartel, the black market.
32:24
Yeah, what's the best case scenario of doing this? Yeah, I don't know, more deaths. You're so
32:29
your morgues and your cemeteries are a lot more full than your jails. And I mean, just the decay
32:34
of culture, man, decay, the more decay, the more, I don't know, I don't know, again, we could take
32:41
this, we could take this a few ways. But I mean, and I've had I've actually, I've been in, I've
32:46
been in Europe, I've been in Europe with my church. So we have a church in Europe and there's some
32:51
talks of being a pastor out there a few years ago. And I was sitting there talking with someone
32:57
in Brussels at a cool little table. And I mean, it was almost like his, they're the brain, the way
33:04
that they think of it, it was so contrary, they're talking about, yeah, we need to give out needles,
33:09
we need to have these safe places, we need to do this. And I was just like, what? Like that's your
33:14
answer to this? And it was almost it just seemed like I said before, brain broke, that you think
33:20
providing safe and clean things is going to be a just a justice for the society? No, I mean,
33:27
why don't you provide treatment? Why don't you provide? I mean, just secular talk, why don't you
33:32
provide ways out of it, not enabling more ways into it? Right. Their life is only, there's only
33:38
evidence of their life spiraling out of control and dragging a whole bunch of chaos and devastation
33:44
and destruction with it. Why are we just here's a clean needle? Because I don't want you to get
33:49
AIDS on your way down. Well, it's it's kind of like giving someone with cancer band aids. It's just
33:53
kind of like what what yeah, they might brush up against something and scratch themselves,
33:58
but are you really treating the disease? And again, I think it's when you have a secular
34:02
approach to things, this is one of the downstream consequences that that you have. And I think this
34:06
is a good time now to really get into what you all do with S2L recovery. Because your addiction
34:12
treatment and recovery philosophy is not so subtly anti the typical 12 steps program. And most of
34:20
us are at least, you know, most of us are at least tangentially aware of the 12 steps program,
34:24
if we've never been a part of them as well. I remember way, way, way back in the day,
34:27
I was trying to, you know, stop, you know, watching porn and masturbating, right? And so like I tried
34:32
to, you know, anesthetize it and try to make it like this medical thing, as opposed to be like,
34:37
well, if I want to stop looking at porn, I should probably stop jerking off like boom,
34:40
there fix it. And the reason that you were investigated or turned to the 12 steps are
34:44
a reason that anyone does with any kind of addiction issue is because that's all that people know
34:48
who exist. That's all that there has been. That's what everyone that's what everyone says you have
34:52
to do. That's what the professionals anyway, sorry. Well, no, you're exactly right. It's the
34:57
name brand. Like you don't buy gelatin, you buy jello, like you don't know, you don't buy,
35:01
you know, bandages, you buy band aids, right? Like it's the name brand thing, the 12 steps program.
35:07
I've got sex addiction or I've got pornography addiction or I've got this addiction or that
35:10
addiction, you go to the 12 steps. So for you all at S2L recovery, why do you not lean on the 12
35:16
steps model? I think I think that's it. That's a great question. And that's, that's probably if
35:23
just someone who's been through addiction or it kind of in the recovery world, that's what they're
35:28
going to notice first about us. And while we're so drastically different, it's because we don't,
35:32
we we don't. And here's why. And to be fair, I think a lot of people can can go through.
35:39
And I think Jeff Durbin says this, God can strike a straight blow with a crooked stick.
35:45
And so yeah, so 12 steps has been used and people do find God finds them there and whatever.
35:52
And I think in its originality, even in its originality, there was some theological issues,
35:58
but I think they had pure hearts and they were turning people to the God, to God,
36:02
the God of the universe. But where it is today and the reason that we don't use it is because
36:06
if you tell me, Hey, there's really good 12 step meetings and really good, you know,
36:10
we're talking about God here in these 12 step meetings. I'm just like, well, tell me where those
36:13
are because I'm sending guys back to Oklahoma. I'm sending guys back to Indiana. I'm sending
36:16
guys to Kentucky and here in East Tennessee, West Tennessee, Florida. Tell me where those
36:20
meetings are. And I might have them go there, but I don't know where those really Christian
36:24
ones are. And if you look, if you pull the 12 step stuff right now, it should make you cringe
36:30
if you're a believer because it's not, it's not what it was. In fact, it says
36:34
a God of your own understanding. It's like what? That's what led me to addiction in the first place
36:41
was trusting a God and seeking a God of my understanding. The Bible says, lean not on your
36:45
own understanding and he will make straight your path. And so it's, and they promote, like I said,
36:51
the, Hey, I'm, I'm Johnny. I'm an alcoholic. Hey, I'm Peter. I'm an addict. And it's like,
36:55
man, identity is such an important piece. Your identity in Christ and whatever you're placing
37:02
your identity in is so important. And that's, that's even moving away from faith. That's,
37:08
that's psychology 101. You call a little girl ugly her whole life growing up. She's going to
37:12
grow up and think what? That she's ugly. Yeah, you identify with sin. You identify with your past
37:19
in just the devastation and the chaos and the decay of your past. That's what you're identifying
37:24
with every time you introduce yourself. Man, that again, absurd thinking, just like, Hey,
37:30
let's make everything legal, just like all the other things we could bring up about
37:33
what the world thinks is right now. It's just absurdity that I'm going to identify with this.
37:39
And here's what they would say. And I've been, I've been on this mission man for a while. I went to,
37:44
I went with the state that the state has a faith based Tennessee. It's actually pretty cool.
37:49
But I mean, I'm going to call it what it is. I mean, faith based, I do like this is because
37:53
they have to include all faiths. Right. But anyways, I went on the kind of this tour to every county
37:57
in the state or a bunch of counties. And I remember saying the things I'm saying now and
38:01
afterwards, it's kind of old timers, what they call them, who've been in AA and recovery for 30
38:05
years, 40 years and kind of came up after I got off stage and he pulled me aside and said, Hey,
38:09
you know, I'm an elder in my church. And you want to mean to know that? And he said, you know, I've
38:13
been in AA for 30 years. And the reason that I say I'm an alcoholic, it's kind of like saying I'm
38:20
a sinner saved by grace. You know, I just don't want to forget. And I don't know, I just said to
38:25
him in this in that moment, I said, the Bible doesn't say that you're a sinner. It says you're
38:29
a saint if you're in Christ. That's your identity. It's you're definitely you sin. But when
38:36
you've been crucified with Christ, it's no longer you who live, you're identified,
38:40
you're seen as perfect, spotless and blameless, you're a saint. And I could just see him as wheels
38:45
return in his head and he's like, Oh, yeah, look, any kind of walked away didn't have anything to say.
38:51
And so if the mindset is, Hey, we identify that way because I don't want to ever forget. Are you
38:56
joking me? Like, if you're going to forget the chaos that's in your and that was brought on in
39:03
your world, then you probably didn't have much of an addiction. And I'm not trying to like compare
39:09
war stories. But the pain that I caused my wife, the emptying of my bank account and everything I
39:15
ever owned, the looking at my parents and that have just all of that if I could never forget that.
39:22
But that doesn't define me. I mean, I did that and I have to sometimes still suffer the consequences
39:28
of that from a decade ago. But I'm not that I'm in crime. I'm a blood-stained child of the kingdom.
39:34
And that's who God says I am. Why would I identify with that? And so I mean, all of that, I don't know,
39:40
you could probably ask the short question. I just went down a rabbit trail. But I mean,
39:43
that's why we don't teach that, push that, encourage that. Well, I will say this as well,
39:50
like just here recently, you know, it's kind of like this is all providentially coming at the same
39:54
time. I watched the documentary, which we'll get into here in just a second. But I also heard
39:58
Jeff Durbin talk on his podcast about his issues with the 12 step program. And I had never heard
40:02
someone be critical of the 12 step program from that basis. And they basically said, yeah, it's like,
40:07
hi, I'm Kyle, I'm an alcoholic or hi, I'm Tim, I'm addicted to opioids or something like that.
40:11
And if they're in the program for 30 years, like the guy you just mentioned, they're
40:15
constantly saying that and they're almost drilling a home in their head, not just reminding themselves
40:20
of what they're reminding themselves of what they used to be. And if they are a new creation,
40:24
then they're not that anymore, right? Like that's who I was, it's not who I am. But so they're
40:29
encouraging people to go to these programs and say, hi, I'm Kyle, and I'm saved by the blood of
40:33
the lamp, or hi, I'm, you know, I'm John, and I'm a new creation in Christ, and in like those
40:39
types of things. And you know, that really gets the hackles up of these 12 step program people,
40:42
because it's like, no, no, no, like you've got to say you're this. And part of it, I feel like,
40:47
and you bring this up a little in the documentary, I keep teasing the documentary. Don't worry,
40:50
guys, we'll get there. I keep thinking about the disease model. Yeah. So I've heard you talk about,
40:56
I heard in the documentary, I heard it, you know, with Jeff Durbin and other people, the disease
41:00
model, everything has to be a disease. And why, you know, why approaching a disease as a disease is
41:07
the only way to address the issue. I think about this as well with with mental health issues. So
41:12
there are mental health issues that are caused by an issue with your biology. You were born with,
41:16
you know, an imbalance in your brain, or something else that's happened. And you need actual treatment
41:22
for that if you if your paranoid schizophrenic, or something like that, like that, that's something
41:26
that requires that like real stuff. But your dog died and now you're depressed. And so you need
41:31
medication for that. No, I'm sorry. That's not clinical depression. You're sad. Some people are
41:36
melancholy in their personality. Like if you went to the early 1900s, they would have just said,
41:40
yeah, you're a melancholy person. Edgar Allan Poe probably wasn't the best guy to go to a party with,
41:45
but he wrote great stuff from, you know, that was an exuding of his melancholy personality.
41:50
And if he had ever turned to Christ, I'm sure part of his melancholy would have communicated
41:55
to people in the Christian sphere that were just bubbly and bouncing all over the place.
41:59
But I think the problem is everything we're basing off the disease model that oh, you have
42:03
something that you don't feel is right. You must have a disease. In your opinion, what is wrong with
42:08
treating addiction as the disease model? How much time we have left? We got a lot of time in the
42:14
world supposed to be. I mean, I mean, to be fair, I think, I think it's word play sometimes.
42:24
How silly this is. It becomes word play because it really depends on what's the definition of a
42:29
disease. And then if you want to say that, you want to look at the brain, what happens to someone's
42:33
an addiction. So I mean, even if I yield to someone saying, yeah, you know what, by definition of this,
42:39
it could be considered that. I'm saying it's curable. But here's the man, and I did not expect
42:46
to do this. But just how hypocritical the system is. And this just happened today, to me, not to me,
42:57
but to us. The disease model is very beneficial if you're going to treat the disease. Well, how do
43:05
we treat diseases here in this country? We treat it with medication, right? And so it's a disease,
43:13
and we could treat it with medication and now this company. But in the same aspect today,
43:19
I'm told via email that we have someone who was by an insurance company, they are declined care
43:29
because they had clean time in the past. And so that we think that they could do it on the run.
43:35
So it's a disease when we need to feed them medication, but it's not a disease when we want to have
43:40
them go through treatment and get help for six weeks or eight weeks, 12 weeks, whatever it is.
43:44
How interesting. And my rationale is, oh, they've been cleaned before they could do it again. Oh,
43:48
really? Case person that's 1000 miles away. You think this person just put their entire life on
43:54
hold in the darkest seasons of their life and made one of the hardest decisions that you can to
43:58
leave everything you know to go get help. You think you know better than they do of what they can do,
44:03
and you're never seen them before in your life. And so you're going to try to dictate their
44:06
treatment. Wow. How convenient that the disease model is for this, but not for this. And so my
44:13
problem with it is what I think it does, what I think the disease model leads to is long term
44:18
medication and long term maintenance, like I was discussing before. And I just think that's
44:23
dangerous. And I don't think we have enough data that shows that's effective, even though they say
44:28
they do, well, you're not asking me. And if you're, if you were, I could tell you how much that I have
44:33
of guys coming in to get help to get off of those drugs. I doubt you're interviewing them.
44:36
I think that brings up a lot of things in terms of these drugs.
44:40
Get me in trouble today. Carl's my producer right here. He's making sure the camera and everything.
44:44
Here we go. We're fine here. There's no issues. But the big deal is there.
44:50
I'm going to get you in trouble. One or the other.
44:52
Bro, the things I've said on this show, like this is not even going to register. But like,
44:57
the funny thing about all this is there are issues. And again, don't contribute to evil
45:02
what can be contributed to ignorance. But that case worker is not making an evil decision.
45:07
She's she or he is making a decision based on something that they've seen, right? So they see
45:12
at the baseball card, they see the back of the baseball card on the person and they try to make
45:16
a decision. It's a lot different when you watch every single lap bat for the entire season, though.
45:20
It's a lot different when you see someone that basically melts into a puddle in your arms because
45:24
they have given every the last bit of effort they did just to get to you to get to S2L recovery.
45:30
But I brought it up just a second ago. There are people that actually need medical care.
45:37
They actually need therapy. They actually need treatment. They're beyond counseling.
45:43
Perhaps at this point, they're beyond some of those things. So for you at S2L recovery,
45:48
because I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea about kind of what y'all do in terms of your
45:51
program, just sit there and pray with people and smack them over the head with a new testament.
45:55
So what do you do with people that have actual medical or advanced therapy needs?
46:01
I guess I can kind of go into the long version because I think what S2L is doing is somewhat
46:08
unique in the aspect of not a Christian, not faith-based, but truly, when we describe our
46:15
program, we're Christ-centered unapologetically. And we're also licensed by the state. And we also
46:21
have a national accreditation from the Joint Commission, which is the cream of the crop. I mean,
46:27
if the best hospital you have in your city, the accreditation that they went for is the Joint
46:31
Commission. So we went after those things. And we felt like we were doing that kind of like with
46:35
the documentary that God was calling us to, to kind of be on the stage. And so we have doctors
46:40
on our staff, our doctor, our medical director, we have nurses, we have clinicians, licensed
46:45
clinicians. And so we treat all of these things and we do all these things as Christ-centered. And
46:53
the thought was for me and maybe someone thinking this, maybe someone who's over a minister, we're
46:59
a nonprofit as well. But my thought for the longest time was we can never step into the space with
47:04
insurance, with licensure, with accreditation. Because if we did, we couldn't talk about Jesus.
47:09
Right. And I think, I think common, that's, oh, yeah, that's true. Well, what I found out was,
47:15
you just have to hire doctors, you have to hire nurses, you have to hire clinicians,
47:19
one that loved Jesus like you do, and also think of addiction the way you do. And then all of a
47:23
sudden, if the state and if all these people try to say, no, you can't do that, because we're
47:28
signing off on it from a doctor, we're treating people with evidence-based, but our curriculum
47:33
that they go through five days a week is Christ-centered. It's straight from second Peter,
47:38
where it talks about, you can escape the corruption that's in the world that comes through sinful
47:41
desires, and that desires what we teach on. And then it gives seven things of growth and sanctification.
47:47
I think that that's a good thing to let people know is because there is this idea with these
47:52
faith-based programs. And I'm glad you made that delineation earlier. There are faith-based,
47:56
but you don't want to include all faiths, because people think that faith systems are
48:01
fundamentally the same. And they're different in very minor ways, but it's the exact opposite,
48:06
right? Even if just looking at Muslim and Christian, they have very, very different views as to the
48:10
person of Jesus. But I do want to go ahead and get in now that we're 45 minutes into the podcast.
48:14
I do want to go ahead and get into the forgotten pandemic. It feels like no time.
48:18
Yeah, we're just flying through at this point, but the forgotten pandemic, that's a documentary
48:23
that you guys put together that I think summarizes not only what S2L Recovery does,
48:28
but also summarizes some of the issues that are happening, why it's being ignored. There's a lot
48:32
of heavy hitters that you brought in there. So give me the backstory. How did the forgotten
48:36
pandemic come about? Why did you produce it? What have you seen? What kind of fruits have you seen
48:42
from that? Go ahead and lay it out for us. Yeah, so in January of 2020, right before the world
48:49
changed as we know it, before the COVID hit, we felt like it was time for us to do a new promo
48:55
video, like a three-minute promo video, just because the one we have is kind of old.
49:00
And so we reached out to a buddy of mine who's just a phenomenal videographer. His name's Denver.
49:07
He's done some really good work or the church stuff seen for corporate things. I've just seen,
49:12
I mean, he's got the eye and if someone has the it and you can't really describe the it,
49:15
but you know they have it, that's what I was looking for because I wanted to be cool. And so
49:19
I reached out, I said, yeah, let's get together. And then around that time, maybe a month or so
49:23
later, it's when, you know, COVID hit and chaos hit. Next thing, you know, we're locked down.
49:29
Next thing, you know, we feel just through prayer and things like that that the Lord called us
49:35
and just said, hey, you know, talking about our promo, you know, hey, this issue and this approach
49:42
is bigger than us too well and it's bigger than than just you guys. And we felt like he was wanting
49:47
us to put this message out in a unique way. And if you remember back in that time, there was a
49:53
lot of documentaries that were popping off with the last dance and social dilemma and even the Tiger
49:58
King, it would just seem like America was consuming, and still is consuming documentaries. And maybe
50:03
they were before, but it was, I feel like it was heightened. And so if we feel like he was, he was
50:08
saying, Hey, this is a project that we want you to do. And our guess was on the table. And no
50:14
experience ever making a film, no desire to ever make a film and never I was kind of played sports
50:18
and never had an artistic eye. But I approached Denver and I said, Hey man, kind of got a crazy
50:25
request. What do you think about this? And he's like, you know, I've never done that. But but I
50:30
believe in it, let's do it. And so God just began to open doors. And as you saw, Mark, Mark Hall
50:35
from casting crowns is interviewed in it and believe in it and then Zach Williams. And then we
50:41
had some politicians and some pastors and people going through it. So doors just began to open.
50:46
And it was it was a labor of love. If I know if I knew then what I know now about filmmaking,
50:53
I don't know that my guess would have been on the table as much. I mean, to be honest,
50:56
I would like to say I'm obedient. But I mean, man, this is this is and we wanted to I'll refuse
51:02
to do it if it was going to be cheesy and not quality. And I feel like we put out a pretty good
51:06
quality film. And but it's meticulous, man. I did not know that a minute of film could take hours
51:14
to edit. Yep. I mean, we had over 100 something hours of footage and it cut it down to a 40 minute
51:20
documentary. Like, that's like, I didn't know how meticulous it was. I didn't know all of the
51:25
stuff. And I mean, but I'm very thankful the feedback from it, the churches and just it's
51:35
almost it almost feels like a wake up call. And we kind of have this thing that we've been saying,
51:38
you know, from the rooms of recovery comes the revival of a nation. And and we feel like God's
51:44
kind of called us to be a part of that and to kind of lead the way because you think about it,
51:48
you look at the heroes of our faith in the word of God and they're not upstanding citizens for the
51:52
most part, a lot of a lot of them, you know, it's very clear that the Bible is clear to show their
51:56
flaws because it brings God more glory. And so yeah, we feel like, you know, through the recovery
52:02
world, we're going to step up and and allow God to use us to usher in revival. And that's our prayer.
52:08
Well, I've seen I have a pretty advanced cheese meter. And so when I watch something, I can pretty
52:14
quickly tell whether or not it's cheesy. Yeah, I feel like you guys have not you guys definitely
52:19
made a quality product that is going to be palatable for all audiences. And yes, I can understand
52:24
in a short video, like there's so many different cuts going to this person going to that person
52:28
and having people give their opinions and still try to tell some sort of a narrative. But there
52:32
was one quote specifically, and I'm pretty certain it was you. I'll attribute it to you. So even if
52:37
you didn't say you get the credit, but you said that these opioids that are going out there are
52:42
creating mundane functional people roaming the earth, mundane functional people roaming the earth,
52:49
give me a little bit more behind that because we've talked a lot about the opioids. But I think
52:53
this has a lot to do with the fact that this is not the epidemic that people are expecting because
52:59
again, nobody's shocked to see a bum on the side of the road with a needle in their arm passed out
53:05
because they kind of expect that like it's they lament it and they hate it and they think it's
53:09
terrible. But they expect that. But they're not expecting the person that they do coffee with every
53:15
week or the person that's in their Sunday school class or the doctor that they go see to be having
53:20
this issue. They're functional. They can look you in the eye, but it hasn't really gotten to that
53:24
crazy part. So give me a little bit more behind creating functional or mundane functional people
53:29
roaming their earth. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, it's almost like a chemical straight jacket. And so
53:35
not only opioids, but the medicine that they're giving people to get off of opioids, it is,
53:40
it's almost like a chemical straight jacket. And when I say that, you can kind of go back to the
53:45
Bible and Jesus talking to the Pharisees, he says, they're like, Oh, we're not slaves.
53:52
Because he says you're a slave to it. And we're not slaves. We're sons of Abraham. We've never
53:57
been slave to anyone, which obviously they don't even know their own history because
54:01
these are lots of enslaved all throughout. But Jesus responds, he says, if you sent, you're a slave
54:05
to your sin. And man, when the mindset is, is when you're on this stuff, you have to have it to function
54:12
like just to have a meeting that just to go to a lunch just to do this. Because if I don't have it,
54:18
for example, let's say that I've done, I've done opioids for 20 years and man, I went and I got this
54:23
prescription that's getting me all I'm maintenance medication that's not that, but it's this. And I'm
54:28
going to have this. And I, you know, and I don't have to go and chase these, these opiate pills.
54:32
Well, what happens? Let's say, let's say a scenario, if you want a cruise and you leave your medication
54:38
or forget your medication or whatever it may be, do you think that seven day cruise is going to be
54:43
enjoyable, enjoyed? No, you're going to be curled in a ball in your bed going through withdrawals.
54:48
Why? Because you're, you're a slave to the stuff, you have to have it to function. And so,
54:53
just mundane functionality, I guess is what I said, just roaming the earth for a while. I mean,
54:58
there's no fruit in your life. There's no, you could do things. And so, but God's called us to live a
55:04
life of abundance, you know, in this world, you will have trouble with take heart of overcoming
55:09
the world. And the thief comes on to kill still and destroy what I've come to give life and life
55:13
abundantly. And so when you're just functioning, when you're just surviving, what are you doing?
55:19
I mean, I guess the charge there is to believers and my brothers and sisters in Christ and live
55:24
a life of abundance, live life on a mission for God, not just surviving. You know, I mean,
55:30
I don't know, it goes back to being passive. And, you know, with a charge of wanting to spark
55:37
revival in the world, man, my call is to get your squirt gun. Let's go. Hell's coming. We're
55:41
going to charge it with these water pistols. And, you know, I don't care what the world thinks
55:46
anymore. And that's also why I think from the rooms to recover the revival of a nation, man,
55:50
because I don't give a rip anymore, man. I've been in the pit of hell. I've been, I've already
55:54
been looked at as damaged goods in a secondary citizen because of my lifestyle. So I don't give
55:59
a rip, man. So what God says, let's go. And I think if that were just the mindset, our country
56:06
would look a lot different are the division in this world would be less. I just, yeah, I don't know.
56:13
I'm with you on all that. No, man, we're going to keep, we're going to keep getting back on
56:17
that soapbox and off it as well. But I do think that that's a big deal because
56:20
people need to look at this a little bit differently. They need to know the warning signs. So one
56:25
thing that you that came up for me as you were talking is people kind of know the warning signs
56:30
now because human trafficking has been talked about a lot. So if you see a young lady, maybe a
56:35
young teenage gal and she's looking around, maybe she's got a bruise on her eye or a busted lip.
56:40
And she's with a couple of guys at a truck stop or at a restaurant or something like that.
56:45
She doesn't look like she's actually with them. She's just with them at the moment.
56:49
We kind of know what to look for. And if those guys get up to go to the bathroom and go to pay
56:53
the check, Hey, are you doing okay? Are these guys with you? We know what to look for, right?
56:57
Like we've seen it enough. It's been dramatized on television enough. But we haven't seen enough
57:02
about these functional addicts that are working through their everyday life on opioids. And the
57:08
problem is, is there's not a long runway before these people's lives completely are overrun and
57:13
their lives are destroyed or they lose them. I mean, just think about it. How many of you know
57:18
someone who's been using fentanyl for a long time, right? Like is because everyone knows
57:22
someone that's used cigarettes for a long time, someone that's abused alcohol for a long time.
57:26
Do you know anyone that's abused fentanyl for any length of time? You don't because they're dead
57:30
already, right? And so it's it's getting us into a different mindset and be able to look at things
57:35
a little bit of a different way. But I did see something in in the podcast. Just so not everyone
57:39
thinks that we're just, you know, in love on this entire podcast agreeing on everything.
57:43
I got to push back on something I saw in the podcast because I'm a little bit,
57:46
I'm a little bit pessimistic. My personality, I can admit. But in the documentary, you talk about how
57:51
eventually these massive insurance companies will just have to support and cosign Christian
58:00
base, I won't say faith based, but Christian based recovery programs, because the data are going to
58:05
be too overwhelming that they work that that it's better than what we've been doing with these
58:10
other programs or these other, you know, books or these other 12 steps or something like that.
58:15
In my opinion, I'm not so sure that because most of these big secular organizations,
58:20
regardless of the industry that they're in, they can't really let down their secular guard and say
58:27
that this specifically Christian program is what we're going to support because then it kind of
58:33
goes against what they're trying to do, what they're trying to build. You talked about it earlier.
58:37
Hey, this person's had recovery in the past, so we can't really pay for this moving forward.
58:41
It doesn't make a lot of sense. I just don't buy it. I don't see that they're going to have to do
58:45
that someday. Some of them, the smaller ones might relent and do that. But again, feel free to push
58:50
back on me. I'm just feeling pessimistic about it. No, and I think that's fair. And I mean,
58:55
I guess the problem is if I did, and I'm pessimistic too, but at the same time there's areas that
59:02
I'm optimistic because if I was pessimistic about this, I'd become lazy and I wouldn't
59:06
collect the data because that's not easy to collect accurate data. I mean, you're following
59:11
up after a few years after someone's been home for a year. I wouldn't do it if I just thought it
59:15
wouldn't affect anything. And so I guess I'll educate maybe the audience or maybe no one,
59:24
but I kind of feel like there's three. There's big pharma. There's big rehab is a big business,
59:31
to be honest. And then there's insurance, right? And insurance is kind of intertwined in all of them,
59:37
but insurance is the one that I'm kind of talking about because if it's all about the money for
59:43
them, let's just be real. And if insurance company knows that, hey, my client, I have data that there's
59:50
data here of, man, they go to this place one time. And man, I haven't had a treat anymore ER visits,
59:56
I haven't had to pay for these prescriptions. We haven't had any more incidences in this many
1:00:00
years. We'll pay for this now, right, as opposed to relapse after relapse, rehab after rehab after
1:00:09
prescription after prescription after counseling after counseling. And so I think it's just a numbers
1:00:14
game. But I'm with you. I mean, just to think that the people aren't going to be brain broke anymore,
1:00:20
or people aren't going to have these absurd thoughts anymore is probably hopeful for me. But I guess
1:00:26
my thought was they're going to see the numbers are going to see the financial that it makes financial
1:00:31
sense for them to pay for this one time, as opposed to that 10 times. Sure.
1:00:36
I hope you're right. I certainly hope you are. I want, I want to believe that that's something
1:00:41
that can happen. And part of that is, again, you and I are both covered in the blood of Christ,
1:00:46
and we both admitted that we're pessimistic. But again, I think that's a part of our personality,
1:00:49
that is something that we should keep, because we're going to look at something just a little bit
1:00:52
of scant, the person that's always positive, everything's always going to work out. And then
1:00:55
it just doesn't, it's like, yeah, you're positive outlook prior to didn't change the outcome. And
1:00:59
so I always look at something and I'm like, how could this be better? Like, whether it's a show,
1:01:03
or whether it's a book, or whether it's, you know, documentary, or even, you know, just an overall
1:01:06
philosophy is like, how could this be better? How could this be a little bit more airtight? But hey,
1:01:11
we've covered a lot of ground today. I really appreciate all the time that you've given us.
1:01:14
But I like to do a segment towards the end of my show, it's called, what would you say to someone
1:01:18
that said? And so what I do is I say that and then I fill in the blank with a statement. And here's
1:01:23
the deal, it's lightning round, you get 30 seconds or less to answer. And I will keep you to that 30
1:01:28
seconds. And it's just going to, you have to give us the mean potatoes answer, whether it's about a
1:01:31
big topic or a small topic, but it's just kind of a cool way to wrap up. So are you up for it?
1:01:36
Yeah, yeah. So 30 seconds to answer one or 30 seconds to answer all of the ones you have.
1:01:40
You get 30 seconds for each of them. Right. So yeah, if it was 30 seconds for all of them,
1:01:44
you'd be able to say like the or poop or like you wouldn't be able to answer it like, you know,
1:01:48
legitimately. So I'm going to say a statement, you get 30 seconds to answer. Okay. All right,
1:01:53
first one here. What would you say to someone that said, addiction is a disease? Define disease.
1:02:00
That'd be a good place to start for them. All right, next one here. And again,
1:02:04
you have a full 30 seconds. If you want it, what would you say to someone that said,
1:02:08
drug overdoses are an overblown story. We really need to be worried about COVID.
1:02:12
Oh, like this game. 30 seconds. I already started the clock. Yeah, the timer.
1:02:26
Here's data. Here's data. Yeah. Look, open your eyes. Yeah, it's not exactly the same thing.
1:02:33
All right. Turn off your TV and look at the real, the truth. Yeah, sorry. Here we go.
1:02:37
What would you say to someone that said, I don't care about God. I just want to get better.
1:02:41
I don't care about God. I just want to get better. I mean, people have said that and we would just,
1:02:47
I guess I would say in 30 seconds, I would say,
1:02:52
let's see. Give me a 10 second when I'm at the 10 second warning. I don't care about God. I just
1:03:00
want to get better. I would say, um, I don't know. I mean, Jeff Darman would, would say, uh, and you
1:03:11
know, yeah, you do. You know God, you love God, but you just don't, you just don't admit it. Um,
1:03:16
I mean, I don't know that you, I don't know that you can get better without God as I guess my answer.
1:03:23
Yeah. I think there's a worldview issue and a lot of these people, uh, they pretend like God
1:03:28
exists, but they just actively ignore that he's there kind of a thing. All right. Next one here.
1:03:32
What would you say to someone that said pharmaceutical companies aren't the bad guys?
1:03:35
They help so many people. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think that I think they could be both. I think
1:03:41
they're definitely again, I think medication is a common grace of God, a mercy of God, science,
1:03:48
mercy, common grace of God given to us. Uh, but man, I've seen too much to think that there's
1:03:53
not some major implication. I mean, they're being sued. How do good guys get sued and lose? Yeah,
1:03:59
but not this level. Uh, some of these companies are paying out billions of dollars to states.
1:04:04
Yeah. Absolutely. Uh, it's not always, uh, as easy as we'd like it to be. Uh, what would you say
1:04:10
to someone that said Christian recovery programs are just 12 step programs with a few Bible verses
1:04:16
sprinkled in? Yeah. Um, I think I'd say you're right. There, there are a lot of those, uh,
1:04:22
that's true. Um, but not all. And then I would hand them our curriculum and let them read it. I
1:04:28
think that's true. That's a true thing. That's a true statement for some. Um, but not all,
1:04:33
not all. All right. Next one here. What would you say to someone that says I work in sales in
1:04:38
the pharmaceutical industry? Am I complicit in killing people? Um, goodness gracious,
1:04:47
working sales, which pharmaceutical cut now? Um, I mean, I think convictions, I'm, I'm not the
1:04:53
Holy spirit, but if you feel like you're pushing a drug, I mean, what are you selling? If you're
1:04:58
selling Tylenol or, I mean, are you selling Oxycontin, right? I mean, and if you're selling Oxycontin,
1:05:04
and here's the data and you're still doing it, maybe, um, if you don't have conviction and you're a
1:05:09
believer and you're, you're aware of what you're selling and the outcome. No, I don't, I don't think
1:05:14
you're, uh, complicit. All right. Just a couple more here. What would you say to someone that said,
1:05:19
my friend is an addict. I don't know what to do. Um, reach out and research, Christ center
1:05:26
addiction recovery places. Go to s2lrecovery.org now, uh, reach out. And when you do, I always say
1:05:33
this, make it as easy as possible, uh, for them to walk into a place of recovery and as hard as
1:05:38
possible for them to stay in the life of addiction, meaning how boundaries don't enable, do these
1:05:42
things, um, but go to, and when you research recovery, make it sure it's Christ center.
1:05:47
All right. Last question of the day, Adam, what would you say to someone that said,
1:05:51
I'm addicted. I've tried everything. There's no way out. Yeah. I hear you. I hear you. I feel that.
1:05:58
That's, that's the way I felt too. And then, you know, but God being rich in mercy and I would
1:06:04
encourage them that there's hope and they don't, and everything that you've heard in this,
1:06:08
this journey that you've been walking in man of recovery and you've been told that you're always
1:06:11
going to be this just know, man, that's from the pits of hell and you've been missing for them.
1:06:15
There's absolutely. And guys, I know if you're still listening to this is because the subject
1:06:19
matter is very important to you. But to any of you listening to this, you know how to get a
1:06:22
hold of me info at undaunted.life. That's the direct email that I see every day. I NFO at
1:06:28
undaunted.life. If you feel like you're in that place, I can get you to Adam. I can get you to,
1:06:32
to other places. It's the same thing when I've talked about suicide on this, this podcast or
1:06:36
something like that. Again, I'm not qualified to help you in any way, shape or form, except I can
1:06:41
get you to someone that can help you. I can talk you through it a little bit. Just reach out. That's
1:06:46
the only part that you have to do is reach out. Okay. We'll make sure that you get the help that
1:06:50
you need. But Adam, thank you so much for giving all the time. We've talked about a lot of stuff.
1:06:54
We've covered a lot of ground on this podcast. But as for now, that is all for me. Is there
1:06:57
anything else you want to get off your chest? Yeah, man. Thank you so much for having me. I'm
1:07:02
really glad I was introduced to undaunted. It's kind of a podcast for me, for men with the beard.
1:07:10
But I would say similar to, as you said earlier, someone, a church man, go into your pasture and
1:07:17
tell them you have your back. I would say if you're interested in recovery and having
1:07:21
recovery ministry, do the same thing. Come and check us out. We'll train you and walk you through.
1:07:27
After the documentary aired, we've trained countless churches and countless states on how to have
1:07:31
just a weekly, replacing an AA or an NA or whatever you're not pleased with, with a lost and found
1:07:37
recovery in Christ meeting. And we'll walk you through that with the curriculum.
1:07:40
And guys, we'll have all that information in the show notes. So you can check it out there.
1:07:44
Adam Comer, thank you so much for coming on undaunted life of man's podcast. Kyle, thank you, man.
1:07:48
There you go, guys. I hope you enjoyed my interview with Adam Comer. But before we let you go,
1:07:52
we are going to do a quick resilience boost at undaunted life. Our mission is equipping
1:07:56
men to push back darkness with content that for just spiritual mental and physical resilience. So
1:08:00
here are the links I've got for you today. I've got a link directly to the forgotten pandemic
1:08:03
documentary, but I've also got links to the S2L recovery website, S2L studio site, and also the
1:08:09
life after addiction podcast, which is pastor Adam's podcast. All right, guys, thanks so much for
1:08:13
listening to the show. We do appreciate it. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe,
1:08:17
rate and leave us a positive five star review. If you want to come speak live at your event or on
1:08:21
your podcast, just shoot me an email to info at undaunted.life. That's I N F O at undaunted.life.
1:08:27
You can also follow us on Instagram and TikTok and like us on Facebook and check out our website
1:08:31
for everything else, including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way.
1:08:34
Just go to www dot undaunted.life. And we want to also thank the band August Burns Red for allowing
1:08:40
us to use their music for our content. The music on this podcast is our song cutting the ties,
1:08:44
which is off their 10th anniversary re-recording of their album leveler. The links are in the
1:08:48
description. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep
1:08:55
forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
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