Hey guys, real quick. So, I've talked to men literally all across the globe about where they're missing the mark and how they want to improve. They normally talk about how they wish they were in better shape. They wish they had a better relationship with their loved ones. They wish they had more success and influence at work and some other stuff like that. But here are some of the most common and biggest things that I hear. I wish I knew more about the Bible. I wish I could lead my family spiritually. I wish I could recall more scripture. I wish Bible study wasn't such a struggle. Well guys, I've got news for you. You don't have to keep wishing. It's time for you to start doing. It's time for you to stop wasting your time and money on stuff that has no eternal value whatsoever. I keep hearing you talk about how you want to be more biblically literate and spiritually resilient. And now is your chance to prove that you mean it. That's why I want you to take advantage of our partnership with the most powerful Bible software on planet Earth, Logos. So, Logos approached me about putting something together for the Undaunted Lifers out there, and we collaborated to create something I'm super pumped about, the Undaunted Life Study Bundle. So, here's the skinny on the bundle. There are over 200 individual resources and they include titles from authors like Vodie Bacham, Charles Spurgeon, RC Sproul, John MacArthur, Matt Chandler, Dietrich Bonhaofer, William Lane, Craig, Paul Washer, John Sto, Doug Wilson, Paul David Trip, Jipacker, and a whole bunch more. And there are so many helpful resources in there. There's Bibles, commentaries, Old and New Testament study guides, devotionals, systematic theologies, courses, dictionaries, histories, encyclopedias, non-fiction books, and more and more and more. And here's the most insane part about this deal. If you were to buy each individual resource by yourself inside of Logos, it would cost you over $3,000. $3,000. But if you get the Undaunted Life Study bundle, you'll get all 200 plus resources for just $349.99. Guys, that's $3,000 worth of stuff for 350 bucks, guys. That's almost 90% off. And you know that you waste more than that on the hobbies that you have right now all the time. And these won't help you with your disciplehip and sanctification journeys, right? It's time to get real and take control of your Bible study and spiritual development. Click the link in the show notes for this episode. If you want the link, it's logos.com/undaunted life. That's www.llog.com/undauntedlife or the link in the show notes. It's super easy to sign up. Again, go to the show notes and click the link or go to logos.com/duntedlife. Sign up for Logos and get the Undaunted Life study bundle right now. This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it. Welcome back to the Forging Table. The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. At the forging table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience by digging into God's word. And we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with us. new group. We got Winkler, we got Degan, we got Adam. I don't know why I call some people by their first name and some people by their last name, but yours uh uh is is really appropriate. But speaking of inappropriate, do you know why I made sure you sat there? >> Cuz I don't I look at myself all the time. >> Well, there is that. Cuz if you're on that side of the table, you only look at the monitor, which is really big back there. But I wanted the entire world I wanted everyone on YouTube, whatever camera I'm looking at to experience what everyone in our Sunday school class today experienced because Jake sat up front. And in our Sunday school class, [laughter] uh, we have entirely too many people in our Sunday school class. Like I can't teach soon enough to kind of thin this herd out a little bit. Amen. But for whatever reason, uh, Jake decided to sit down last. And I mean, he may as well have like, >> you know, sat in the person teachings lap and then like I'm trying to look around Jake trying to figure out like how in the world I'm going to see the PowerPoint and see everything else. And if we're not going to have headphones on, you better talk to the for yourself. >> I'm I'm I'm older. I don't see or hear as well anymore. >> How older? How old are you? >> 45. >> 45. You're not even the elder statesman of this table. >> But also, I mean, I I kind of feel like, you know, this whole thing of like size, I feel like I should get some credit. I'm down 45 lbs. >> Can we just go like [laughter] a round of applause for that? And and trending downwards. >> Yes. Correct. You're still going >> I've plateaued, but as I tell people, I'm I'm not on a diet. I just This is what I do now. I've preddecided. You might say, [laughter] >> "This is like music to my ear." >> So, the the truth is that the reason he's really there is cuz he's trying to hide his scraggly little left arm over there because [laughter] he's so he's so see he's going to hide anything. He's going to be here. >> Show us off. You know why? Cuz I've gone from a worthless arm to a baby arm to now I've got like a lesbian softball player. >> Oh, [laughter] there you go. So, like it's like it's coming back. >> It's there. I can move it. >> You can probably make it on the WNBA right now. >> Yeah. You know what? You're you're probably [laughter] you're probably a power forward now. >> Shout out in his caner freedom. But no, I just I wanted everyone to kind of have a have a better idea of what it was like being in Sunday school today cuz it was a bit of a distraction. >> I could be a bit of an eclipse. That's fine. I'm comfortable with it. Did you give it one of these like lean to the side like hello miss lady? [laughter] >> No. No. There was not even an attempt cuz I was just like like what do you do? I didn't want to be like remember Trump during that little eclipse thing they're like no matter what don't go outside and look directly at the sun without [laughter] glasses on there. LIKE I LOOK it was >> you guys you guys are going to be really grateful for me if the revolution ever comes cuz I will be the human shield for all of you. You guys will be >> Hey, [laughter] we do need to get back to this 40 lbs down which 45 pounds down. I'm not going to short you on that one but hey like all kidding aside like so many people I mean in this audience I'll have people come to me like the last speaking gig I did down in Baton Rouge shout out to this guy. I walk in, huge Viking looking dude on the front row wearing a kilt and everything. And he came up to me before I spoke and he goes, "Hey man, I just want to let you know that you got in my ear a few years ago. I'm down 100 pounds. Yeah, like I'm I'm training. I'm doing these songs." And I did my normal thing where I said, "Thank you for saying that, but I didn't do that." Right? You did that. Like you decided you pre-decided you were going to be this way and here's the person I am now. This is just what I do now. And so like I'm curious for you because I mean you've got fans out there that that love the Winkler and have followed you along and like here you are on a new journey. You've been on the spiritual journey now you're on this fitness journey. >> Yeah it I mean it's been great honestly. I I give a lot of credit to Kyle too because >> No, don't do that. >> Well, I'm going to I mean he I I literally was uh I mean the amount of times I've been like all right uh what do I do? How do I do this? And then he would he would tell me things and then there would be things that I would be like early on. I mean, Adam, you get this. I have a very unconventional schedule with work. I mean, I just, it's hard for me to be consistent. And then it just basically became something where you said, I just said, you know what? Shut up and quit making excuses for yourself >> and this is what you need to start doing. There's just a lot, it's so easy to make excuses for like why I should be able to do this. Uh but uh there's a you know I should be able to eat this because this happened or I'm you know whether I'm really happy or I'm really bummed out. I've had all of that you know. Um so now it's basically more of a u high protein, low carb, almost no sugar. Man, I miss sugar sometimes. >> But at the same time, uh the Winklers are known for addictive personalities. >> All of us. um whether it's drugs or alcohol or porn or whatever. Uh we have that problem >> and [clears throat] it has been a okay well food has been my supplement for a very long time. Food is no longer that. And so now it's just >> every time I start getting that inkling I'm like all right we're going to pray. We're going to read the word. We're going to replace it with a healthier addiction. So it's been great so far. Uh a lot more energy. So, if you haven't started, um, couple things. Don't eat past 8. >> Mhm. >> That was Kyle's biggest piece of advice. So, my 10:30 cereal was out the door. >> Yeah. It was basically [laughter] like don't eat within 3 hours of bedtime. Like, that was one of the first things I told you. You're like, I'm just going to start doing that. And then like a week later, you're like, dude, like >> I lost 10 lbs. [laughter] >> I I've been sleeping so good. >> Yeah. I slept good. I started Yeah. I lost I lost 10 pounds. I was like sleeping through the night and I was going, "Man, okay, well, Kyle, what what do I do next?" And he was like, "Eat a lot of protein at lunch. All right, I'll do that next." And then it was I started eating 100 grams of protein at lunch. >> Oh man, that's hard to do. >> Well, I'm a big boy. Okay, that's really not that [laughter] pound of ground beef. That's 110 grams of protein right there. >> Uh or Well, I've been doing one pound of turkey from uh Rudy's. That's been like a staple of the diet. 128 grams of protein turkey. >> Yes. So, no, it's been great. I feel I feel fantastic. U Stacy's enjoyed it, too. I mean, it's [laughter] >> not Hey, >> we don't have to get into >> We're not going to get We're not going to get into all that, but I'm just saying fluty there for a second. >> Yeah, she [laughter] there. But there's there's been I mean, I told uh she was like like when I met her when we met, I had a six-pack and she's like the the top two are back. [laughter] >> Hey, >> the top two are back. Uh I I said I'm carrying 240s right now though. That's what >> 240s. [laughter] But hey, we're we're proud of you. We're proud of the journey that you're on. The director's headed. Uh well, and also we don't need a repeat performance of what happened that one time when Stacy came out uh out to the garage gym cuz she thought artillery [laughter] was going off. Uh she thought it was our own Red Dawn scenario, but that was just Jake on the treadmill. [laughter] Um and so >> she checks on me every time I work out. >> Yeah. So now we're uh we're not going to have to have as many of those issues cuz you're going to be uh strong and ready to go. >> You you're doing rucking too, right? Do you ever >> Yeah. So now we So do you vest? Okay. So like how crazy you put you put on 40 lbs. I'm like this is how I used to walk around. >> That was just me. That was just me. Yeah. >> So yeah, 40 lbs at uh 3 and 12 to 4 miles an hour for at least 30 minutes. But then I'll run and I've done freaking airbike, man. >> Dude. >> Yeah. [laughter] Well, whenever whenever I busted my arm, I was doing the air dime with no arms. >> Oh. >> And so I was just doing legs and I was still trying to sprint, but it's just legs. and you don't have the the balance of being able to hold on to something, but like rucking. I mean, you and I were talking about rucking this week about Well, tell them about the the workout you're doing cuz everyone loves to hear about different workouts. >> So, so the workout I do is I I've got a 40 lb vest and I start off with 30 push-ups and 40 air squats. And then I go I try to keep my pace between three and a half and four. And I go for 5 to 7 minutes. And then I do 30 push-ups, 40 air squats, hit repeat until I get to the end of about 30 minutes. And so, um, at the end, I've usually done like 120 push-ups and like 160 air squats, and then I take the [clears throat] vest off and I just max out however much I can do. Okay. >> So, this last time I got like 50 push-ups at the end and was completely and totally dead. Like, that's all I could I could possibly do at the end, but then you start doing the air squats and you just you feel like a feather, you know, at the end. So, >> it's like running in ankle weights. >> Yeah. And what I found by adding in the push-ups and the air squats, it spikes your heart rate up. to get your heart rate up into that like 160 range where when you're just carrying the pack you're going to be in the 135 to maybe 145 range which is a good place to stay >> zone twos though >> for a long period of time but you know getting up to that 160 170 you don't want to stay there for a long time but you want to get there and and then in slowly gradually work your way down and I've I've found when I look at my watch right when I'm done with push-ups squats my heart rate's up there and then I start walking again it gradually goes down and then it goes back so >> well and the good for you specifically, you do a lot of mountain hunting. So you've gone on a bunch, you know, moose and sheep and goats and all kinds of different things. And so what a lot of people don't do is cuz if you live here, Oklahoma, well, we're like 1,000 ft above sea level or something like that. And so here you are hunting at 10,000 11,000 ft or something like that. So you're not training for that type of an environment. But also, you have these guys where you might be taking a shot from 500 plus yards depending upon the type of hunt that you're on or you're trying to get into bow range and you're trying to sneak into bow range. And so if you got, you know, buck, bull, whatever fever and then your heart rate, you could be sitting in a deer blind at resting heart rate and then a buck walks out and now you're at like close to max heart rate and then you're trying to settle the scope on this animal and you just flat out can't do it and you've got something you're propped up on, but now you're in the mountains >> and you have to test spiking your heart rate and then being able to settle yourself down long enough to get a good shot. >> Man, I'll I'll do it every year. I usually look look at doese's or cow elk through the scope just for that reason so I get used to it. I get familiar with it. That way when I see the sight picture I don't get excited about it. Once I know it's a shooter I try to not focus on the rack. I'm focusing on the body. But that repetition I do it like first couple hunts of the year. I look at the scope and I'm trying to clear my mind to think about that moment when the time comes because I have made that mistake so many times. There's times when I've had my finger on the trigger and I had to back off cuz I was like I cannot take this shot cuz I'm too amped up. >> Yeah. Wow. >> Same thing that I've done. So even whenever I'll hunt like whitetail just as practice like if an animal comes out that I'm not going to shoot. So I mean it could be a squirrel, it could be a rabbit, it could be a dough or something like that or I'll even focus on like a knot on a tree and then I will get get to that place and I will try to like settle myself down and I'll like I'll just have it on safety and I make sure 10 times, okay, we're on safe here. We're un safe here and then go and try to like pull the trigger. And why are you smirking? Like why? >> Because do you make sure there's a round in the chamber when you're doing this? >> Yeah, every now and then. I [clears throat] don't know. I've [laughter] been with I've been with a hunter before that. This is my safety >> that apparently keeps a hot round in the chamber. I don't know who this is, but supposedly there's >> in a house full of men of people that know uh what a what a trigger finger's used for. This is my trigger safety. >> All guns stay hot at all times. >> Yeah. Well, thank you for thinking I'm hot at all times. That's ultimately [laughter] what he was saying. Uh, but you know, I did promise something to you guys. Uh, in a text message yesterday, I promised to pull the pin on a grenade. >> Oh, boy. >> Um, and so, well, don't you worry about it. It doesn't involve you. Okay, good. But typically, there are pins on grenades that I that I get pulled or different things like that. But I'm a little concerned mainly about YouTube, >> okay? About Dan and Adam. >> Uh, because over the last several months there have been these these messages that just come out. No one asks for this information, but y'all just like offer it up. >> And it was, man, Project Hail Mary might be a perfect movie. Project Hail Mary. The book's even better than the movie. Man, this is this is a nine out of 10, maybe a 10 out of 10 movie. >> And so I'm like, my gosh, >> Dan, Adam, these are smart guys. These are respectable human beings. These are guys that I would follow [clears throat] at least maybe into battle sort of kind of maybe, I don't know. And so here I am minding my own business. And then uh Kelsey was gone. The boys were out of the house and I'm like, "All right, well, hey, I'm going to throw on this movie and I'm going to watch it." And there were some cute parts. There were some parts where I even giggled uh when I was there by myself. But when I got to the end of it, I was like, "Wait, that was it? It was a bromance between a middle school like science teacher and a rock spider alien." And and then no, wait, wait, wait. I'm not done. You're going to have plenty of time to defend yourself. But, uh, I just sat there and I'm like, "Okay, yeah, there's other elements. You have the rock spider guy. No spoiler alert, but rock spider nerd alien was just like, "Oh, no. you can have some of my, you know, mega super duper whatever and then, you know, I'll get back home 7 years later, but I want to give it to you cuz you're my buddy in a completely heterosexual kind of a way and, you know, this is all normal and, you know, very platonic and it it was just that was it. I thought the rock alien spider guy was going to take him to somebody else that was wildly more interesting. They spent 45 minutes explaining how the two be came to communicate with one another. I was like, "Great. That could have been a, you know, that could have been a '8s montage of some kind, but no, let's just stretch this thing out to learn how these uh two things communicated with one another." And I just like when I got to the end, I was like, "Okay, it's a six or a seven. It was a cute little movie. There were no boobs. There were no like woke stuff in the thing." And so, you could have watch it with your kids in there and it would have been just fine. You watch it with your parents and not be like this scene. And like skip past it. And it was better than that Dre that was the Odyssey. I'll say that. But in and all this is like mildly or miles better than like Lord of the Rings or something like that. But like but I [laughter] I I'm a little concerned about you two because when y'all described it, you were describing gladiator level, Braveheart level, Tombstone level, Zack Todd's another one. He said this is a nine and a half out of 10 for me. Like think about the movies that are up there on that shelf of category. Like those kinds of movies. Project Hail Mary's there for you. And I'm like I'm assuming something's broken with me. uh that I didn't see it. Whatever the romantic >> Hold on. I'm getting really offended right now because it was with Lord of the Rings. I got basically this is a gay movie. But >> I didn't say that. [laughter] You said that. Sounds like a guilty conscious. >> But my thing is he's like there might be something wrong with me because I don't like Project Hail Mary as much as you two. Yeah. >> But with Lord of the Rings, >> it's just so clearly awful. [laughter] Like that's the thing is this. This is like kind of dimly awful. Lord of the Rings is such horrible, worthless dre. It's not even worth discussing. >> Enjoy being enjoy being on that side of the argument for a change. >> What What is required for Kyle Thompson to say this was a nine out of 10? What What must be in a movie in order to be Let's go ahead and do do your top five. I think I know them, but give me your top five. >> Okay, so top five. We're going to say Gladiator, uh, Braveheart, Tombstone, No Country, >> Glorious [inaudible]. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'll throw that in top five. That's definitely in my top 10. But yeah, does anybody else see a trend in those dramatic here? >> They're all terribly amazing. Hey, you know what else is in my top 10? Lion King and Sandlot. >> So, can a movie be awesome if it doesn't include some form of significant violence? >> I just mentioned, >> actually, hold on. Say them again. Gladiator. >> Gladiator. >> Tombstone. >> Tombstone. >> Uh, and Glorious [inaudible] and No Country for All Men. So, the only one that's basically not even revenge themed is No Country for Old Men. >> I mean, how is it not revenge? It might be. I haven't seen it in a [laughter] while. >> It's It's pretty well, not revenge. It's >> It's chasing down type of thing, but like Lion King's in my in my top uh 10. You didn't list. Sandlot is in my Well, yeah, top five. You cornered me to top five, but like, you know, Sandlot's in there. Uh, dude, uh, I got a list of other ones, but yeah. >> So, I feel confident. I feel confident in saying that Project Hail Mary is in the top 10. I'm not sure that I would put it in the top five, but it seems like your consistent theme is there's got to be like some significant violence. Someone needs to be murdered. Someone's head needs to be chopped off. Someone needs to be [laughter] shot. Somebody needs to be thrown down into a well or something in order for Kyle Thompson to put it in the top five. >> Here's what I would say. Hold on. I didn't interrupt you. >> YEAH, YOU'RE RIGHT. [laughter] SO, SO, SO, SO, so if that's true, let's let's explore another movie which is in my top five, which you did not listen, which we have talked about at this table before. >> Open Range. >> Shaw Shank. We're going to get to that one in a second. That one's next. Shaw Shank Redemption. >> That's a top teninner probably. >> Absolutely. It's a top. It's probably top five for >> There's only violence described. >> There's vi Well, and then the warden ends up shooting himself at the end. And so, and then there's the shower scene, which is pretty gratuitous and terrible where >> uh the sisters, you know, rape the dude. So that's terri anyway. And there's none of that in Project Hail Mary, but still like, does a movie have to have violence in order to be in the top five? Like I'm drawn to that, too. That's probably the top. My top five are in that range, too. But I still like, you know, we talked about Open Range. It's too slow for you. I loved Open Range, and I loved the story of it. I loved the I don't know if pageantry is the right word, but it's just it's a different movie than just uh Tombstone. Like, it's a dark mo great movie. might be in one of my top five also, but it's constantly dark, constantly heavy. >> I think dark and heavy are more so features of what I like as opposed to just flatout violence. Because if it was just gratuitous violence, it would be Kill Bill volume 1 and two. It would be John Wick, which I I like, you know, I like the John Wick movies and all that, but in terms of the substance of a movie, there's there's something more happening and it goes into the the darker depths of the soul. Like probably for my for my money the greatest scene in cinematic history is when Maximus reveals his identity to comeus on the floors of the on the floor of the coliseum. I saw it on a scroll on Instagram the other day. Got chills again. I've only watched that like a hundred billion times. But yeah, it's just like I think if you're going to tell a true like and I guess part of my other thing too is it has to be like kind of real. like I don't like, you know, these this fantasy and sci-fi. That's why none of that's going to be in my top 10 is like I I can't really get into that because you can't see yourself or any of the people, you know, in a in a story like that to where you're like, man, what would I do? It's like, well, what would I do if I was shooting space lasers out of my little pocket knife? Oh, it's like who cares? Go ahead. >> You like Interstellar. I mean, Interstellar's >> Yeah. >> and incredible, right? Yeah. >> So, I I think one of my big draws, just to go back to the movie, my big draws was there was no woke stuff in it at all. There was, you know, my kids loved it. The kids enjoyed it. And it's like one of the first big mainstream original stories, which is off of a book. So, but I, this is not a remake. This is not something that we've seen or heard of before, which I love. Something that's original, something that's different. And they're not trying to shove their ideology down my throat. That's one of the reasons I loved it. And I thought Ryan Gosling was awesome, which I know he's one of your favorites. So, isn't he one of your favorite actors? >> Uh, I mean, I like him enough. He's not one of my favorites, but he's not like >> who? Oh, I'm thinking of Jake Gyllenhaal. >> Yeah. Okay. >> He's awesome. His he had a four four run. His he had four movies in a row that were unbelievable. It was Nightcrawler, End of Watch, Southpaw, and Prisoners. >> Oh, [laughter] sorry. >> Uh yeah, not not one of my favorites. Not one of the ones that I would put up there. I might watch Roadhouse more before I watch [laughter] Brokeback Mountain. But yeah, but like Ryan Gosling isn't like a od odious actor where it's like, "Oh god, this guy." Like what is the guy that plays uh Captain America? That dude it's like watching a block of wood try to try to talk and convey emotion. That's like he he's a guy that he just annoys me when he's on screen. >> I would say in the history of the forging table, at least the the episodes that I've watched, which have been many, and the episodes [laughter] that I've been on, which have been a few, I have never heard more heresy preached than right there about heresy. >> Well, hey, it's going to get worse over here cuz we got a chance over here as well. So Dan, take >> I gave you extra time to >> get your thoughts. >> Well, if you didn't like the movie, you would hate the book >> because there are whole chapters that are missing from the movie that go into more of the science background of it. >> And that's kind of my draw is like he did the the author did a lot of research. First of all, he knew he was writing about a main character who is a middle school teacher. And he wanted in doing so he thought well there are middle school kids that are going to read this and I want them to be able to. And what kind of like what Adam was saying what want them to be able to didn't include any like woke bull crap. It was I don't want to have any harsh language. I don't want to have any sexual innuendo. Like I want middle school kids to be able to read this in class and talk about it. >> Um but the science aspect I love because he um you know he based so much of it. He does a lot of research and makes sure that the science is like real. Um, and the book goes way more into that. Like the the the scene where, you know, they're going and there's they make that he the little uh robot makes not robot the rocky makes the chain. >> Well, in the book that is like months. That's over a period of long time. And they and they basically go nuts like making this chain. And you can't throw that in the movie because you'd be like, "All right, I'm going nuts, too." Watching them go nuts making this chain for three hours. But, um, so it it there are some periods of the book where you're like, "Okay, I get it. Making a chain takes a long time, drives you crazy." But I love that. I love all the science background of it, and I love how that kind of comes out in it is fantasy, but it's fantasy based in like earthly physical knowledge, right? like what we know of how the world operates and how space operates kind of like um Interstellar, right? Like it's like it's like we >> it's it's insane, but it's pl >> theoretical. It's right. We're applying theoretical physics to to it as fact. Um which may or may not be relevant, but it's the best we've got. I I like that. Um there isn't a lot of like uh there's there to me I'm okay in some movies like suspending disbelief for the sake of like just a good story. Um I Braveheart was the only movie I've ever done this at. My brother and I watched it at at Robinson Crossing in Norman. We walked out, we bought tickets, we went back in and watched the next show. >> I spent six and a half hours of my life in that nasty movie. The first Lord of the Rings like I had to throw those clothes away cuz the popcorn smell wasn't washing out. [laughter] Right. It's like but and so it was I I loved it but I also love like Princess Bride. I >> I I'll watch that no matter what. I'll watch Oceans 11 >> because it will they is that actually a plan that's plausible and they'll get away with. No way. They would have been like absolutely murdered in the vault. Um, I'm a big Wes Anderson fan, so I don't know if you've ever seen Royal Tennon Bombs, but like it's ridiculous, but it's hilarious to me. So, I I'm not a real I'm not a like overly critical of movies. I find like if I'm enter if I'm entertained, that's kind of like it. Like, I don't have to come out and say, "Well, let let's like like I I notice a lot of like bromance talk, you know, and it seemed to me like you like the movies that it's overtly non bromance. Hey, if we're going to have a gay movie, let's have a couple of cowboys in the mountains. >> INSTEAD OF LIKE BEING FRIENDS, I'm just going to shoot them all, right? Like I'm shoot genres. Come on. >> But I I will say this. So Adam actually helped me like discover something about my personality. Actually open up cuz I have like a top 10's list on my on my notes cuz everyone was like, "What's your like top 10 favorite?" Whatever. So before I don't remember last time I updated it, but top 10 movies are Gladiator, Boondoc Saints, Zero Dark 30. So you want to talk about a slow burn with not a lot of violence? Dark, hell or high water, The Town and Glorious [inaudible], The Sandlot, Titanic, The Lion King, The Dark Knight, >> Titanic. >> It's a great film. >> Oh, man. >> James Cameron, shout out. Let's go. [laughter] Um, movie has everything. Uh, I'm going to draw you like one of my French corals after this if you keep it. [laughter] Uh, but this is what I will say, Adam. So, this was after we we went and saw the Odyssey and then coming out of the theater, I'm like, I don't know, man. That's like a six and a half or seven. Like, it was so distracting. And he was like, dude, that's like a nine. that might be a 10. I was like, "What?" And the more that I thought about it, the the less I liked the movie. I the less I liked the decisions that Christopher Nolan made. And part of what he helped me realize is probably because of what I do all day every day. I can't just turn my brain off and zone out. Unless it's a movie I saw, like I watched uh Patch Adams with [clears throat] my wife uh the other day. I hadn't watched that since I was like a little kid. Robin Williams got destroyed by the critics, but everyone in the audience loved it cuz it's just fun and it's happy. Even though it's like really, really, really sad at one point, >> but it's like I can't just turn my brain off. I'm looking for all the messaging that's being forced into this. And of course, with all the woke stuff, it is. But that was the thing with the Odyssey is it's like you're you're asking me to to do too much. It's like you want me to believe that there's a 100 pound uh you know, female that's a male hoplight. You want me to be okay with the fact that you injected her character into this movie and you took Achilles out of this movie which almost ruined the Hades scene which is the best scene of the entire movie. You have this uh Indian guy who looks like he's never picked up await in his life but he's Adysius's second in command as a Hoplight general. And I just there was just so there was just thing after thing after thing where I was like it's so distracting seeing these people on the screen the entire time where they don't even look vaguely like someone that could be passable in that role. Whereas Adam was just sitting there like, "MAN, LOOK AT THAT HORSE. That's awesome. [laughter] I just I have all these things going on." >> But so you help me like realize that about myself. So I kind of ruined things. >> Yeah. I mean, I feel I feel like maybe I'm ignorant to it. But yeah, when I sit there, I'm there to be entertained and to not think about work and not think about my email and not think about everything else. And so I guess I'm willing to give some of those things a pass and just be like, "Okay, yeah, I didn't think of Helen of Troy being black, but so be it. the fact that she just didn't distract me or that caused a problem for the movie for me. >> Yeah. I think the So, the thing that was even more distracting than the race of the actress that they picked, and I talked about this in my show, is you could walk up to any random slappy on like walking around and say who was so beautiful, whose face was so beautiful that it launched a thousand ships. >> And even a [clears throat] caveman's going to be like Helen of Troy. They destroyed that with a single line of worthless dialogue because the guy like takes her face, John Bernthal, who's the same guy in every movie no matter what the character he plays, grabs her face and turns and her face is all scarred up. [clears throat] >> And so they completely threw away one of the most important like uh thoughts about the beauty of this woman in a single dialogue in a single piece of dialogue. And I'm like what a worthless thing to do to >> the war at that point. >> Yeah. It's like what why why are we doing this? And so it was just it was that after that after that and then just thinking about again the best scene of that entire movie is when uh Adysius goes to Hades and he's talking to Agamemnon and that's crazy but in the original source material he talks to Achilles and you have this like this dichotomy of this man who fought for glory that knew he would die young and Achilles and this man Adysius that's not just fighting for himself he's fighting for Penelope for Timicus and for Ithaca and you have this dichotomy of these two people but no like let's just put a chick in her and make her gay, right? Let's put a trans chick in there and then she's in there trying to talk like a dude. It's just like what are we doing? So that's the thing. I can't just turn my brain off and be like, "Oh no, Christopher Nolan's the best." I was like, "If that wasn't Christopher Nolan, if that was some no-name director, you'd probably be a little bit, you know, closer to what I thought about it." >> I I remember turning to you when that scene was over and be like, "Dude, that was cool." The Hades scene, it was pretty legit. And I I don't know what is it about certain movies that have dialogue that just grips you and catches you. And when a when a movie has bad dialogue, I don't know if you guys saw the uh recent Mandalorian and Grou movie. >> No, >> I've I've never seen a movie that has had worse dialogue than that one. It was Sigourney Weaver, >> horrible casting, terrible. Every one of her lines is awful. >> The um the action is cool. The the scenes where Mando's like doing his thing is cool, but everything outside of that, the movie is worthless. So most Star Wars movies have pretty horrible dialogue going to Star [laughter] Wars. >> Yeah. Well, when you go back and watch the original, like what was that episode 4? Like Luke Skywalker is the biggest baby. Like [laughter] he just >> he's like Frodo but not as bad. >> You're just like, "Bro, you are such a wuss." Like like you're just a whiny. Like like he was that that dude was like my hero growing up and now as an adult I go back and so I do get the the whole like I I'll watch it and I'm massively critical of that kind of stuff. Maybe when you become an adult, Jake, you'll realize Froto is like the worst character in the history of like the Western cannon. >> No. >> Is there a worse charact? I can't think of a single character more annoying than Froto. >> Oh man. >> In all of movies, I can't think of one. >> The determination of that young hobbit. >> Have you Have you seen that? [laughter] I think it was on Instagram where somebody did a video of the eagles like, "Why didn't we just send the eagles throughout the 17 seconds long? >> You guys go on a journey. How about I just hop on this eagle?" >> Oh, yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. Apologist. Give us an explanation why we couldn't have just done that. Yeah. Yeah. Tolken's a genius. >> That book would have sucked. WHAT DO YOU [laughter] >> YEAH. BUT ALSO but also >> what a horrible story. >> The the Leo could have been on the door, right? There was enough room on the door or the floating piece of wood. >> Drew, you know, there have been like scientists that have like that have like done actual experiments. >> James Cameron. James Cameron did James or something. He just like, oh yeah, I guess I would have made a story. Rose is a villain. It's the suspending disbelief for the sake of the story. >> Shout out to the biggest villain of all time, Jenny from Forest. [laughter] My gosh, that woman's evil. Like, go watch some videos about that. >> The greatest villain in for the greatest villain in cinematic history is Jenny from Forest and she made him do >> she got what she deserved. [laughter] >> THAT'S RIGHT. WHAT? >> YEAH, JENNY GOT WHAT SHE DESERVED. >> Do you not remember the beginning of the movie and what her dad did to her? >> Yeah, she died of AIDS. I can't believe what I will never forgive her what she did to Forest. Her dad raped her over and over and over. >> I understand that. I'm not forgiving that. I'm not saying that. But I'm just saying she's a terrible person. Like, and I'm not sad. She's She's a villain. She's the bad guy in Forest Gum. Not those racist dudes like chasing them, you know? >> She's a bad guy with an origin story. >> But but she ends she ends well, right? She has a kid. She tries to get her life together and like she's a waitress, right? Because she's got an apartment and >> Yeah. She's a real Lindsay Clancy. That uh that Jenny Oh, too far. >> Let's go dark. Let's get >> That's where I keep going. And I keep going back to all the all the dark stuff like that's, you know, >> because they go back to his house. They go back to his mom's house and they're trying to live and she's got AIDS and she's not going to make it and so she's going to die. He buries her under the tree. >> Here, here's where here's what I'm going to say. She told Forest that Forest was his son. >> Oh, >> but she waited a while. >> She sure waited a while. And are we sure? >> That's fair. That's [laughter] fair. trying to take care of my kids. I'm about to die because of my bad decisions. Yeah, Jenny's the hero. >> Love [laughter] it. She's better than Froto, though. I would take her and hang out with her uh way more than >> You know, a good segue to Jenny is what happened to Hosea. >> Oh, you know what? That's actually [laughter] a pretty good segue. Speaking speaking of whoredom, uh let's let's get back into what we're talking about. Uh yeah, I'm going to think of Jenny. Every time I read uh from now on, [laughter] I'm just going to picture her from Forest Gump. So, yeah, we do have to get into scripture at some point. So, Romans 9. Uh, we got to Romans 25 yesterday, we're about to get into Hosea, [clears throat] this is a very interesting piece of scripture, which every time you see Paul refer to something back from the Old Testament and quotes it, guys, pay attention. There's a lot of things happening here because he's quoting something that Jesus believed in >> because so you talk about unhitching from the Old Testament. >> I'm not sure that we should do that. So, I want to get into this section of scripture in Romans 9. Uh Dan, actually, if you could do this, let's start at verse 22 of Romans 9 and go ahead and read through 26 and then I wanna I want to get into Hosea real quick. >> Okay. Uh and I'm in the ESV. Romans 9:22. You said through 26. >> Yeah, read through 26. Uh what if God desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy which he has prepared beforehand for glory even us whom he has called not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles as indeed he says in Hosea those who were not my people I will call my people and her who was not beloved, I will call beloved. And in the pla and in the very place where it was said to them, you are not my people, there they will be called sons of the living God. So the important thing he's calling back to a section of Hosea 1 and a section of Hosea 2. Um, and I think it's really important here and uh reading from the ESV. And wouldn't you wouldn't you know it, look at there. We got our forging table uh custom Bible. We didn't give it to you on air. I had to give it to you off air, but I didn't want to ruin the surprise. But shout out to that thing. But um Jake, I want you [clears throat] to actually read I I want us to read all of Hosea 1, >> and then we're going to read just a few verses from Hosea 2. But uh and what version you going to be reading from? >> New King James on this one. >> Let's go for it. Yeah. Hosea 1. The word of the Lord that came to Hosea the son of Ber in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam, the son of Joash, king of Israel. When the Lord began to speak by Hosea, the Lord said to Hosea, "Go take yourself a wife of harlotry and children of harlotry. For the land has committed great harlotry by departing from the Lord." So he went and took Goomemer the daughter of Delame and she confinced or and she conceived and bore him a son. Then the Lord said to him, "Call his name Jezrael, for in a little while I will avenge the bloodshed of Jezrael on the house of Jahu and bring an end to the kingdom of the house of Israel. It shall come to pass in that day that I will break the b the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezrael." And she conceived again and bore a daughter. Then God said to him, "Call her name Lahurama. I hope for I will no longer have mercy on the house of Israel, but I will utterly take them away. Yet I will have mercy on the house of Judah, will save them by the Lord their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword or battle, by horses or horsemen." Now when she had weaned Laharama, she conceived and bore a son. The then God said, "Call his name Lo Ami, for you are not my people, and I will not be your God." Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured or numbered. And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, "You are not my people." There it shall be said to them, "You are the sons of the living God." Then the children of Judah and the children of Israel shall be gathered together and appoint for themselves one head and they shall come up out of the land for great will be the day of Jezrael. >> And then go to Hosea 2 and through 21-23. >> Okay. It shall come to pass in that day that I will answer, says the Lord, I will answer the heavens and they shall answer the earth. The earth shall answer with grain, with new wine, and with oil. They shall answer Jezel. Then I will sew her for myself in the earth and I will have mercy on her who had not obtained mercy. Then I will say to those who are not my people, you are my people and they shall say, you are my God. All right. Thank you. So I wanted to give um some attention to this part of Hosea because if you read right over that, you kind of almost miss the point that Paul's trying to make because in [clears throat] the ESV it's not it's not harlotry, it's whoredom. Take a wife of whoredom. So, some people think that, you know, um, Goomer was a prostitute to begin with. Basically, every commentary that I read said no, she was just like any other woman, but once he had taken her as a wife, that she had been unfaithful, that she cheated on him, so she became a in that way. And so, she was not a whenever he went and found her. She was a when he reclaimed her, I guess, would be the way of thinking about it. And so, um, I mean, when you look at verse 25 and 26 of Romans 9, we're really looking at the unbelievable mercy that God shows to those that that are undeserving, which if you want to talk about one of the major themes of the first nine chapters of Romans is how undeserving >> the depraved are. And yet God and his infinite mercy was still extending that out to people. Um, and I do want to read a quick quote from the MacArthur commentary and then we'd love to hear from you guys. Hosea spoke of ultimate restoration of Israel to God, but Paul's emphasis is that restoration necessarily implies her present alienation from God. And so she is presently alienated and he's showing like through Hosea basically how he can still have mercy on those to which is very undeserving. So thoughts >> I I think also to preface that a little bit like where have we been when we looked at the first part of chapter nine? Chapter nine was heavy with election, right? And I I I listened to Sproul talk about some of this and when he he broke this up in the same way when he got to 24 and 25, it's kind of like you almost sort of take a deep breath that now we're out of the election a little bit, right? And he's still doing this back and forth between Jew and Gentile a little bit. And so this is a story that the Jews would have been aware of. The Jews would have known this story. So, as he's reciting this to him, it makes sense that this comes right at the end of where he just started preaching the the difficult part of election. And then it comes and now the Jews are going to have to hear, "Hey, remember that time when uh God had one of your um one of your leaders had to marry a harlot and one of their kids meant you're no longer or one of their kids' names meant, you know, you're no longer my people." Yeah, that's what we're talking about. That's still that's still what this means between election. Some being elect and some not being elect. This is talking directly to the Jews in my opinion. >> So, you see that with the verses that >> Yeah. Well, number one, I always say when when Paul's quoting Old Testament scripture, you can pretty much assume he's talking to the Jews. >> Okay. So, we we see that it's not that it's there's no application for people who would be Gentiles. It's just >> they don't understand any of this. But I think, and big shocker here, I'm going to disagree a little bit here. So Paul's taking the Jewish people throughout Romans on a journey. Okay? He starts all the way back with Abraham in Romans 4. >> Then when he gets to Romans 9, he starts bringing in uh the Abra he brings talks through the Abrahamic covenant. And then in Romans nine starts taking it through um you know the offspring of Abraham you know Isaac and then u Isaac over Ishmael then he's taking um Jacob over Esau right then but the interesting part about that is the Jacob and Esau portion is literally the end of Malachi okay so that's actually being quoted that's scripture quoted from Malachi and so when you he's actually spanning 18800 years he's basically reciting their history to them. >> Then he's going into Hosea and he's saying, "Hey, remember how God kicked you out >> and you weren't chosen anymore." >> And then he said, "I'm going to kick you out and I'll bring you back." How many times has that happened to you >> over and over and over again? Right? You have been rejected, [clears throat] then brought back in, then rejected, then brought back in. Right now, the Jews in this moment are dealing with you're now being told that people who are your greatest persecutors >> are now part of this. >> Y >> imagine hearing that for the first time. But Paul is actually saying to them in this moment, this promise now extends to them. And you're saying, no way. They weren't the chosen people. He's saying, I can bring them back in. I can both I can reject then bring them back. That is completely within his sovereign choice. >> And and just to back up to support I I'm not going to be rude and disagree with you. I'm going to actually [laughter] agree with you. No says >> to to back up 18. That's fine. So then he has mercy on whom he wills and he hardens whomever he wills. That >> is another another verse that is the same thing about Jacob I loved. Esau hated, which I know was in previous weeks, but it's it's the same thing. And it's going to be difficult for them to hear, but after he makes that claim, he's reminding them. We've been here before. >> Yeah. And I mean, again, I know it's previous weeks, but I'm going to the Greek word for hatred that was used is misio. >> Okay. It's the same word that when J when Jesus is actually telling people that unless you hate your mother, hate your father, it's all of those things. Uh and and I don't think that anyone would actually think that Jesus is saying to literally hate our mother, our father, our wife, our children. He's saying you have to love me more than them. Okay. Another way to translate Messo is prefer. >> So the way I look at to me it's you're you're raising one up but God has the ability to raise up who he will who who he decides to raise up. It does not mean outright rejection of the other. It just means I've raised one up to a more audible place or if you will the uh what we just read uh has endured with much patience vessels with wrath prepared for destruction. It's he's also talking about the honorable vessels here which is actually quoting back to Jeremiah. >> Okay. So if you go back to Jeremiah he talks about the right of the potter over the clay and all of those things. And I'm probably I'm going back a little bit but I'm trying to get a little context into what we're reading into here. Mhm. >> Um, so I'll pause there because I don't want to talk the whole time. Sorry. >> Well, I mean, one of the very specific notes that I made backing up to verse 12 of Romans 9 and she was told the older will serve the younger. And then verse 13, as it is written, Jacob I loved and Esau I hated. That's from Malachi, not from Genesis. >> Uh, the one of the notes was specifically hated does not equal loved less. >> Correct. >> Like, and so that that's the one thing cuz I think people may may have gotten lost in what you were saying. You're not trying to soften the message. In a way, you're actually making it more intense because when Jesus talks about the separation off, because when people get real uncomfortable about, oh well, Christians shouldn't be divisive, it's like, well, Jesus was incredibly divisive. He's like, you know, I I I basically come in like fathers will hate sons and, you know, brothers will hate brothers. Like, like he is the dividing line of separation uh before a lot of people. Did you have something you want to hit on that as well, Dean? Well, I you know, I dropped my son off, my oldest, at at college on Monday, uh, this last week. And so, um, man, it was that was an experience. You know, it ended up being like a really fun day, and there weren't any tears that day, but my wife and I had plenty of tears the second day, which was great. He didn't want he didn't have to witness them. But I had um I had every significant like man, uncle, cousin, male in his life write him a note of encouragement that we could give him. And I would encourage people to do that with your kids as and so when we left him in his dorm, I gave him this huge stack of really encouraging letters which I stole the idea from my older brother. So shout out to him. But great idea >> in the in the bottom of mine because you know I was reading and preparing for for this uh and so all of this was on my mind. Um, at the end of mine, I felt compelled to to really like draw a line between like he and I's relationship and he and God's relationship. Um, because we have a great relationship. Like he is my only son. Uh, like he has over the last couple years kind of transitioned to like like I'm I'm missing a friend in my house. Like I'm missing my buddy. Like my buddy's gone. He was the something funny would happen on TV and I'm yelling for him to come down and like laugh with me and rewind it and watch this thing. But, you know, so I ended it basically kind of like, hey, um, you know, my inequities as a dad, my propensity for impatience and, uh, frustration and all of these things that are that are like my brokenness. Like I hope that all of those things have pointed you like have have shifted your point more to Jesus is the only perfection that you have. >> Like that's it, you know, and and so that's where I that's where I agree with you. It's like he it it's in that same sense saying like I want you to love Jesus so much that that your love for me in comparison looks like hate. like the real definition of hate, you know, like like disregard, turn away from um abore, like I want I want your love for me to be a sour taste in your mouth because your love for Jesus is so strong, right? Um >> I don't think they need to be mutually exclusive though. >> No, I'm just saying like that was my hope for him was like I'm not perfect >> and I know you love I and I know you love me, but man, like you're moving on. you're ting to this new season and man the the the person that you cling to from now on or really forever like I'm always here but let my brokenness point you towards towards you know the the heavenly father who is your perfect father >> when I think it's a it's an it's not extreme but it's a uh it's an exaggerated way to prove a point. So even as you were saying that I was thinking about what John Tyson talked about in the intentional father about the severing dinner. So if you read the intentional father by John Tyson, he's a pastor out in New York City. This part of his book, he had no idea it was going to be controversial, but it is without a doubt the most controversial thing of the entire book. And so with his son, cuz they did a very intensive uh disciplehip program from the age, I think it was 13 through 18. Every morning at like 5:00 a.m. or 6:00 a.m. or something like that, they had a bunch of stuff that they did together. But at 13, his oldest [clears throat] son went out to dinner with mom. And this was called the severing dinner. And at this dinner, a mom described and explained to her son, you will always be my son. I will always love you. Um, I'm always here for you. But from now on, your father is your main parent. If you need something, you go to dad. If you need something explained, you go to dad. If you need help, you go to dad. I will always be your mother. I will always be all that. So now, if you look at it like a literalist, oh my gosh, she's like leaving home and she's never going to be there ever again. They're literally severing the relationship. No, she's signaling via a very descriptive and pointed conversation. I am not your primary parent. I will always be your mother and everything that comes along with that. I I carried you. I birthed you. I weaned you. I I all those things, but your father is your primary now. And it's a shift in the relationship. And it's the beginning of that young boy, you know, basically distancing from mom so that dad can show him how to be a man. And that was mom's point is I can't show you how to be a man. Your dad can though. And so that's I'm going to you're going to come to me and you're going to want me to help you and protect you and all those things and I'm going to push you back towards your father. Oh my god. Like you want to talk about the wailing and nashing of teeth. Of course it's four waves of feminists that are like crushing against uh you know the the dock that's this book is sitting on. But that's one of those things where people that took it too literally were thinking, "Oh, you're you're saying mom's not important anymore. You're saying all that." No, you're using it in a way to describe in a more extreme manner what needs to happen. I think that's kind of what we're talking about here. There needed to be a a a separation and a extreme description of kind of what needs to happen in order for you to follow Christ in a certain way. If that makes sense. >> Would that book have also advocated for the same thing the opposite way? for there to be a severing dinner for father and daughter and for the daughter to be with mother. >> This was specifically a book that was talking about dads doing stuff with sons. I think since he has done some content for dads with daughters. Um but this this was mainly like this was explicitly in the context of of that because would make a lot of sense in how I just described it to have a daughter go out with her mom when she's 13. It's like okay dad's going to teach you how to be a woman now. Well, depending upon who dad is. Maybe maybe maybe dad is going to be in a in the new Christopher Nolan film and so that would actually make sense. But >> maybe he's a big Lord of the Rings. >> Yeah, maybe maybe that. [laughter] So, uh, big fan of the month of June. Uh, watches Lord of the Rings the whole [laughter] time. Um, I don't Yeah, it just keeps going. It never stops actually. But yeah, it was just mainly in the father-son context. >> So, I mean, and that makes sense and and that's why sort of I wanted to explore that a little bit because it wouldn't make sense to do that for father and daughter. But like if if you're going to say that's a beneficial thing for father and son, which I've never really thought through this. And news flash, I have no sons, so this is not something that I've uh explored or had to think about. So I'm just exploring this like around the table as this happens is like I could see how that could be beneficial, but I'm not sure that I would see that as being beneficial between a daughter and their mother, you know? And so if it's not beneficial, and I don't know if it is or not, but if it's not beneficial for a daughter and a mother to go have that conversation, >> why is it different for a father and a son? Because intrinsically I do think, okay, I could see some value to that. The old John Eldridge thing, you know, the wild at heart, a lot of what he talks about that that all that makes sense and resonates with me. But like, why is it that that makes sense for father and son, but it doesn't make sense for mother and daughter? Because a a a woman does not a a a woman does not call a boy into manhood. A man does that. >> Well, I I I'm I'm saying this wrong. I'm saying this and I am saying that I understand what he's trying to say about how that's important for a father and son. And I think without fully exploring it, I think to some extent I agree with the idea behind it. But even though let's say I do agree with the idea behind it, I'm not sure that my brain immediately goes to being on board with it. Should it be like a mother and a daughter kind of having that relationship that it would make sense? >> It it happens. I mean, look, I've got two teenage daughters. >> We've been praying a lot for you. >> Thank you, buddy. Um, >> it's going to happen organically a little bit. I mean, you would probably say there was an inflection point probably if you were your son where originally maybe he would go to mom for things and then he started coming to dad for things. >> Oh, for sure. >> And some of it's just going to happen organically. You know, I think I think maybe the whenever the tension I would feel in that is that there's like some sort of formal like announcement. You know, it's like there's like this coronation ceremony where you know, it feels so >> final, you know, with mom. It's like, and I would never want, if I had a son, I would never want them to say, "Hey, you can't go to your mom on things." Honestly, sometimes the best thing you can do is, "Hey, I'm going to go run this by mom so I can figure out how to run this by dad." So, trust me, I I mean, I think we've probably all been in that situation with our own fathers. I mean, the number of times like, I messed up, mom, how do I tell this to dad? >> Um, but at the same time, eventually, it's like, I'm going to dad on this eventually. I have to. Um, and I do think that there is an element, you know, my daughters are there's way more time spent and getting advice from mom >> at this point. They used to be my two little buddies. Now they're my teenage daughters, you know, and so there is uh it's a different relationship. They're still under my protection and provision. I actually had my uh my daughter is turning 14 tomorrow and we had our daddy daughter annual daddy daughter day where she just basically gets a walking wallet for five hours. uh which is like [laughter] uh which for a CPA is not fun. Uh but the uh >> he's spreadsheeting the whole this is not going to balance. >> It my best advice I I've been doing this for years now and I tell them they have a budget. They don't know the numbers. I just I just tell them when it's close. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> So they always come up short. But but yeah, I mean it's I do think there's some of it that happens organically. So I I mean my only consternation would be the formal dinner of it all because I think if I if my mom did that to me I'd be like so wait I can't >> hear anything there's a big difference between what is said and what is implied right >> because some kids yeah some kids are denser than others and you know like I would have been one of the den kids like hang on time out but I lost my dad in a way when I was 13 when my parents got divorced and I couldn't just see him and go talk to him. It was kind of like a every weekend or every other weekend thing. uh and when my dad was 13, his father was killed. And so it's like you think about the ex the extreme circumstances behind those types of situations. And so cons considering cuz this only works when you're in a healthy union of one man and one wife uh under the tutelage and direction of God and the man is acting as the head of the household. So there's a lot of things that have to be in place before we even get to this dinner. >> Uh and the thing is is what's being severed is not the relationship between mother and son. that's being severed is the dependence of son on mom uh for sustenance, for for protection, for like, you know, help. Will you talk to dad for me? And so it just formalizes something that should already be a reality. But for some kids, as y'all know, cuz your kids are all older than mine, sometimes there has to be a little bit of a kick in the pants, a little bit of, you know, fire lit under particular kids to move them towards the specific action that you would desire. Yeah. >> He formalizes this because if it's just an implied thing like hey dad's more like it it just makes it like abundantly clear. >> I think it is probably also important like you sort of prefaced it like if you don't believe or you don't follow the compliment complimentarian view of oh my gosh it would be a disaster. It would be a complete disaster. Tug >> of war right. >> It's a tug of war over the parentage of your kid. I mean that's and that's a nightmare. >> Well, you know what's funny? You would think when people would read that it would be all the moms that would be mad. And sure, like you have these these moms that are more feminist in their tendencies. They spend way too much time on Instagram. They're going to be like, I'm like, God, that's like I can't believe that's so toxic. >> It's the guys that have a problem with it. It's kind of the same thing. Like I was speaking down in Louisiana and one of the guy running the event, he goes, "Hey, uh, some of our wives who are helping out with the event, they were curious if it'd be okay if they like sat in uh during your speech or whatever. Do you think that'll be a problem?" I said, "What's funny about that is the fact that they're even interested in what I have to say tells me that they're not going to be nearly as offended as kind of the doughy frumpy guys that are going to be more so offended by my by my message." The they're lionesses, they're 5enters. I'm not worried about them at all. It's kind of the same thing here. It's the men who are squishy or egalitarian. And they're egalitarian because they don't want to make the women in their life mad, not because they came to that uh decision via scripture. And so they're gonna be like, "Oh man, they're almost white knighting like I don't believe in the that kind type of a dinner because it makes mom not important, right?" No, in a way it honors mom to such an extreme degree in her role of what it is to be mom because especially in those early years, can I get a amen from anyone that's had a young child? There's only so much the dad can do. We're picking around the edges, making sure to pick up things in and around what's the real work is, which is mom keeping baby alive. And so you're honoring what her commitment to you as a human being, as her child was for the first 13 years, and you're still proclaiming her importance. You're just like, "Her role is shifting. So is dad's role." And again, it's cuz dad has to welcome you into manhood some. >> Well, and you know, God bless my wife and any mom out there because that's not an easy thing to see your kid do, like to see your your young baby boy. I distance is a strong word, but just start to emotionally like take things elsewhere. Like that's hard. >> Um and uh my wife did not like it, but she knew it was right. >> Oh, I don't like it now. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but it happens in the inverse, too. >> Yeah. Well, I have two teenage daughters as well, and like I every time I try to make something better, I break it into smaller pieces, right? [laughter] It's just like I It's like I have such a good plan for you, and why are you crying? You know, and it's like I don't >> They love that question, don't they? Don't [laughter] Yeah. >> Yeah. Be married. >> They love the question. >> Have your dad be Bigfoot and then see how bad you break stuff. I mean, why are you yelling? This is my normal voice. >> My normal voice. [laughter] >> No, that that's great. Well, hey guys. Uh, we've gone everywhere in this conversation. I don't want to give short shrift to this next section with Isaiah because he's calling back from Hosea to Isaiah in, you know, consecutive like passages here. And again, you know, when you look at something like the ESV, everything is broken out into sections and paragraphs and all that. That's just not the way that this was written down. So, we can just continue that narrative, but we will have to continue the narrative next week. So, guys, come here ready to listen to the discussion start in Romans 9:27. Romans 9:27. But before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost. An undaunted life mission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. Don't forget about the logos. I'm thinking about changing the pronunciation cuz Logos is the secondary pronunciation. Everyone else says logos, but at this point it's just it's just weird. So, Logos, Logos, whatever you're into. Uh, check out the show notes. You can get the link to the Undon Life Study Bundle. We have a Crossway forging table starter set, five amazing resources that you can get at a discount. Thank you to Crossway. And also, we're a donationbased ministry. So, if you want to know how you can give a taxdeductible or even a non-axdeductible donation to what we're doing here at Undaunted Life, make sure you check out the show notes or you can go to undaunted.life/donate. Thank you everyone for listening to this episode. 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